DEFINING SUMMER

It was an interesting day in Oilers nation on Monday. The new GM introduced the new coach and the verbal sent people in all kinds of directions: the mainstream media appear to feel coach Eakins is going to straighten out Taylor Hall (I can’t explain it) and fans appear to be upset over all the talk about conditioning.

Let’s take a minute and think about Eakins’ mindset. When asked a question about a team you don’t know (the Edmonton Oilers) you’re going to speak in wide terms, in sweeping statements, because specifics are impossible. The big part of yesterday wasn’t Eakins words–he was solid, or his presence–he was impressive, but rather the reaction to his words and his presentation.

I don’t think Dallas Eakins said anything yesterday we can apply righteously to anyone on the Oilers. He isn’t going to bench Taylor Hall or send him to OKC (he can’t btw), and he isn’t going to make people run laps around the Rexall parking lot. He said many things worthwhile–the parts about finding out about players even if he had to call their parents was a gem, and we all love the idea of two or three different options for specific disciplines like PP, PK and breakouts–but specifics will come as he gets to know the 30 or so men who’ll become the Edmonton Oilers to him.

Projecting sweeping statements onto specific players or positions is going to set you on the wrong course, or perhaps more notably confirm something in your own mind that does not exist.  One of the really important things for us to keep front and center is this: the words and actions of the Edmonton Oilers hockey club are open to wide interpretation this morning–and no one person has the correct answer. Not even Dallas Eakins. He has to meet the coaching staff, and the players, and they have to build some trust or  they have to reach a point where there’s a bridge they can’t gap. That takes time, possibly an entire year of learning. Hoping for a Steve Smith-Kelly Buchberger firing is all well and good, but I don’t believe retaining one or both should be viewed as a sign of weakness/lack of control. On the other hand, if you’re going to do it, now is the best time.

If there’s one thing to take away from yesterday it is this:

  • Eakins: “I don’t coach a team. I coach anywhere from 23 to 27 individuals. The way you coach players now is you get them one-on-one. You grab them for lunch, you hit them at the coffee machine. It’s small group meetings, it’s one-on-one meetings and it’s constant. It’s every day. You’ve got to know their triggers. You have to look under a lot of stones sometimes to find out what makes a guy tick. But once you’ve got it, you can really help push him in the right direction.”

Two things: this is a completely reasonable statement about a group of people you’re going to be in charge of in the future but don’t know personally. It’s well placed, and intelligent, but what else did you want him to say? “I’ll have Ebs on the point, and then….” is months away. Months. To borrow  a phrase from MacT’s yesterday, he looks good in a suit.

Now, they all get to work.

SAIL ON KALEVAN PALLO?

Toronto vs. Oklahoma City Barons 11-13-12

Remember what we talked about above? Eakins not knowing the players, making wide, sweeping statements? Craig MacTavish is the other side of that coin, he’s made the call on a lot of these hockey players in the Oiler pro system. Teemu Hartikainen is one–and the news isn’t good. During the RE series, there were a couple of items that came up in regard to Harski that suggested dark clouds on the horizon.

  • Ralph Krueger: “He’s trying to figure out what a gritty, strong power forward does and what’s connected to that. What’s important for him is to continue to manage the puck in all three zones.”
  • Craig MacTavish: “in today’s NHL, even marginally, you have to be a threat to score”

Hartikainen didn’t get much done at evens this year–in fact there were no EV goals for while he was on the ice, known in the trade as a ‘JF Jacques’–and he is now off to the Russian hinterland and we’re down a perfectly useful Finn. Hartikainen’s departure means MacT doesn’t see him as a 4line option–that’s the truth here, folks–and it probably means his rights are heading to another NHL city.

The other thing to keep in mind is that MacT doesn’t have any loyalty to these prospects beyond what they can do for the Edmonton Oilers.  I like Hartikainen, suspect he could play a role on an NHL team–but that isn’t the point and really not what we should judge MacTavish on. MacT is aiming higher than Harski for that position, and that’s great. Here’s hoping he gets it done in what is becoming an alarmingly busy summer.

Interesting stuff, and added to Will Fraser’s blog from last night talks about Oilers dealing #7 to Toronto for Jake Gardiner and #21 (Lazar?) at the draft.

THE LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE ON TEAM 1260  (10A-NOON)

lps sc

 

  • Tyler Dellow from mc79hockey. All Eakins all the time, we’ll talk to Tyler about Eakins, MacT’s approach to the summer and the difference between ‘poise’ and ‘unflappable’ in hockey terms. 
  • Cody Nickolet from WHL from Above. We’ll talk about the NHL draft coming up, and some of the hidden gems in the WHL.
  • Alan Hull from Copper and Blue. Eakins as Oilers coach, MacT in overdrive and the Oilers at the draft.
  • Eric Rodgers will talk about Hartikainen and OKC. Are there any other RFA shoes to drop?

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92 Responses to "DEFINING SUMMER"

  1. sliderule says:

    I was disappointed that the MSM did not ask Eakins what sort of systems he favors.

    In an interview after the press conference he said he likes to use different systems.

    While that makes sense on the forecheck it just doesn’t sound right for defensive coverage.

    I would have liked to hear if he plans on RKs man system or strong side overload(used by most teams) or low zone collapse.A lot of teams use combinations of latter two systems but other than oilers no other team used much man.

  2. supernova says:

    LT,

    How is Harti signing in KHL a reflection on MacT ?

    For all we know Harti left before his agent and the oilers even had a chance to talk contract. Quite possible that MacT could have offered him a one way deal, and seeing as he has to clear waivers, it is highly likely another team would have picked him up, and he would be in the NHL.

    This is about Harti wanting more money now, he didn’t want to sign for 750k (or whatever it would be) and he wanted his millions now.

  3. Lowetide says:

    supernova:
    LT,

    How is Harti signing in KHL a reflection on MacT ?

    For all we know Harti left before his agent and the oilers even had a chance to talk contract. Quite possible that MacT could have offered him a one way deal, and seeing as he has to clear waivers, it is highly likely another team would have picked him up, and he would be in the NHL.

    This is about Harti wanting more money now, he didn’t want to sign for 750k (or whatever it would be) and he wanted his millions now.

    So Hartikainen put in three years in an effort to make the NHL, finally reached the point where he either makes it with the Oilers or moves through waivers and to another city, and at that exact point signs in the KHL?

    I don’t think NHL dreams work that way.

  4. slopitch says:

    I thought Harti would have been ok but I did think late in the season there wasn’t enough there. Early on I liked his jam but it seemed to just disappear and he wasn’t able to make plays with the puck. A year in the KHL gets him guaranteed salary but like LT is implying, it reflects a player who didn’t think he’d make it.

    I’m fine with MacT aiming higher and if that’s the case, there are a lot of players who should be worried about their jobs.

    Lots of work MacT. Pitter patter.

  5. sliderule says:

    Lowetide,

    Maybe harti didn’t want to spend another season in tornado alley.

    Must have been a scary time for someone from Finland

  6. Lowetide says:

    Patricia Teter ‏@Artful_Puck 13s
    #OKCBarons RT @IgorEronko: #KHL Ufa #Salavat confirms signing of #Oilers F Teemu Hartikainen for 2 years

    Two year deal. I don’t think they gave Harski a good exit meeting and his agent found him a place to play. Doubt we see him again,

  7. Lowetide says:

    Bohologo:
    LT, you have been subject to entirely too much unwarranted criticism of late from many a manky git, but let’s be reasonable here: Last Picture Show shots, and no Cybill Shepherd?

    lol. All the screenshots were nudes!

  8. regwald says:

    Lowetide: lol. All the screenshots were nudes!

    How many hours did you spend looking at each and every pic … just in case you found one you could use ? ;) LOL

  9. rickithebear says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think NHL dreams work that way.

    All people want is to work at something they love.
    we have established a 21-22 entry into the NHL or you are looking at 24-26 3rd line with size
    in the .6-.8M range.
    If you can make 15-20 times more in another place! KHL versus AHL!
    You take it.
    2-3 years in KHL and maybe a belov return to get a year or two in (25-26) and 27-32 YR contract.

    KHL versus AHL starts to be a superior option for 22-26 year olds.

  10. DBO says:

    New coach seems solid. But we’ll see.

    as for rumours, if we can get Gardiner and the 21st for the 7th, I hope they do it right freakin now. Gardiner is a real NHL dman right now, is a perfect pairing with Shultz (they played together in college) and if it got us Lazar in the right spot then all the better. Gardiner is the right type of dman for what MacT wants, and Eakins will know him better then anyone.

    Smid-Petry
    Gardiner-Shultz
    Shultz-Belov

    That is a more mobile and well rounded corps then last year.

  11. cc says:

    - If the Oilers can get Schultz and the 21st overall pick for their 7th overall. I say do the deal. Gardiner with Petry, Smid, Klefbom & Schultz the younger would be a good defense core for Eakins to mold. If they can acquire Ranger as well I think that he would be a good fit here.

    - I feel better about this hire than anyone of the previous three hires. I am hoping that he’s able to bring Derek King & possibly Paul Maurice. I’d like Buchburger to move to the scouting group, he won’t be let go from the organization. There just hasn’t been enough growth from the bottom of the forwards under his guidance.

    - I’m not too concerned over Hartikainen. If MacT didn’t see him as a player that could contribute on the PP he really didn’t bring much to the bottom six.. If you look at Hartikainen from an objective standpoint he is a fringe player, whether he can grow into something more we don’t know. I think MacT wants more versatility in his bottom six.; ability to play center or wing, bring physical presense and/or contribute on the PP or PK. I’m wondering if they will consider Marlies leading scorer Ryan Hamilton; 28-years-old, 6’3 230, scored 30 goals in 56 games in the AHL this year.

  12. Maverick says:

    regwald: How many hours did you spend looking at each and every pic … just in case you found one you could use ? LOL

    I forgot how wonderfully beautiful she was in those movies!

  13. Maverick says:

    DBO:
    New coach seems solid. But we’ll see.

    as for rumours, if we can get Gardiner and the 21st for the 7th, I hope they do it right freakin now. Gardiner is a real NHL dman right now, is a perfect pairing with Shultz (they played together in college) and if it got us Lazar in the right spot then all the better. Gardiner is the right type of dman for what MacT wants, and Eakins will know him better then anyone.

    Smid-Petry
    Gardiner-Shultz
    Shultz-Belov

    That is a more mobile and well rounded corps then last year.

    If they get Gardiner and Toronto’s pick and draft Rychel at #21 would that be an acceptable?? I would think “yes”.

  14. jonrmcleod says:

    I found one of Eakins’ quotes amusing yesterday. I think it was in an interview on Oilers Now. He said (paraphrase) he wants his team to look at the other team and think, “You guys can play any style that you want, but we’re better than you in every way.”

  15. supernova says:

    Lowetide: So Hartikainen put in three years in an effort to make the NHL, finally reached the point where he either makes it with the Oilers or moves through waivers and to another city, and at that exact point signs in the KHL?

    I don’t think NHL dreams work that way.

    My point was where is MacT at fault or heck even tell Harti he needs more from the player to make the NHL. Harti chose the money and the easier route.

    “Hartikanens departure means MacT doesn’t see him as a 4th line option”

    MacT didn’t even make the choice, Harti did.

    Bill Scott and Todd Nelson gave him his exit meeting. He didn’t like what they said and took the money and ran. I am saying this is on the player not on management.

  16. RickDeckard says:

    DBO,

    I’d throw in Nick if it meant that the oilers got gunnarsson instead of the 21st.

    Gunnarsson-Petry
    Smid-Schultz
    Gardiner-Belov/Potter

  17. supernova says:

    Maverick: If they get Gardiner and Toronto’s pick and draft Rychel at #21 would that be an acceptable?? I would think “yes”.

    I do that deal in a heart beat If its available. They have the best scouting report possible on the player with Eakins.

    I don’t see Toronto doing that deal though.

  18. Maverick says:

    As for Hartikainen; he is a 6th round #163 pick in 2008 that has played 52 NHL games. Even if we never see him again I think that was a successful draft pick. Not many 6th round picks play that many NHL games.

  19. Maverick says:

    supernova: I do that deal in a heart beat If its available. They have the best scouting report possible on the player with Eakins.

    I don’t see Toronto doing that deal though.

    Probably “pie in the sky” thinking but definitely fits in the MacT “bold” moves.

  20. Rondo says:

    Don’t the Oilers already have a Jake Gardiner on the team However that type of deal would be tempting, assuming you could get Lazar. But you never know where players will go in the draft.

    I’m still stuck on, see what the cost would be for Barkov, hope Monahan is available at #7 or take Nurse if available.

  21. jonrmcleod says:

    Here’s the exact quote from Eakins that I loosely paraphrased above:

    “I like teams that have a little swagger…. I mean the swagger that, hey, we’re confident. How do you [the opposing team] want to play tonight? Because we will play however you think you can beat us, because you can’t.”

    I wouldn’t mind the Oilers with that kind of swagger.

  22. bookje says:

    When asked a specific question regarding Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Eakins response started with “Those players you mentioned…” and went on to talk in very generic terms about how he manages players in general, generally.

    He barely knows who is on team, LT is right, we can’t read too much into this. I have worked with guys like Eakins previously, they are so focused on what is underneath them (in this case, his own team), they don’t spend a lot of time knowing a great deal about things outside of that (in this case, the players on an NHL team in on the other side of the country).

    I would bet he would have been unable to name 5 Oiler players a week ago.

  23. Bar_Qu says:

    Maverick:
    As for Hartikainen; he is a 6th round #163 pick in 2008 that has played 52 NHL games.Even if we never see him again I think that was a successful draft pick.Not many 6th round picks play that many NHL games.

    At this point, I don’t know if saying he was a 6th round pick is justification for letting him go (I think its a 50/50 in repsonsibility on him leaving, btw). If you look at a guy like Bickell, Hartikainen was following the same path, albeit with slightly lower numbers. IMO, the guy needed 2 more years to become what Bickell is becoming (minus the ridiculous SH% and PDO). If you put three years into the guy, that is sunk cost and a real conversation needs to happen of his potential moving forward.

    Maybe the Oilers did that conversation, maybe not. But its not like they won’t have space on the roster for him, considering it sounds like 9-10 bodies are on their way out the door. And he’s got to be a better Wing option than some of what will remain behind (is he better than Pitlick or Hamilton? Emphatically yes).

    It is hard to trust MacT before he acts, and he likely can’t do much adding of pieces for the next two weeks, especially when you see a promising talent go away possibly for good and nothing coming back.

  24. Zack says:

    Trade proposals like that (7OV to Toronto for JG and 21st OV) give me a sick feeling in my stomach when considering Nichushkin, Lindholm and Monahan will very likely be on the board when the Oilers step up to the plate at 7OV.

    I know our D isn’t strong and adding Gardiner would improve it but not at the cost of one of those three forwards, not with thier potential. The three could all be first line threats and I think one of them (if they meet thier potential) will be worth more than Gardiner + 21OV combined, or at least there’s a good chance.

  25. Bar_Qu says:

    Zack,

    I think we as fans need to recognize that the Oilers value the present now more than they do the future. And if they feel they can hit a ground double with a later pick and pick up a player who can help now, versus keeping the #7 and hitting a homerun, they are going to go with the ground double.

    And frankly, I can understand the impatience. As long as they don’t give up all their picks ( a la Darryl Sutter) and continue to get 3-5 reasonable prospects a draft, it is probably a wise strategy.

  26. G Money says:

    Not sure why there is such a hard line on why Harti is going to the KHL.

    Does anyone actually know?

    Fact: there are solid reasons (money, tornadoes) why Harski would actively choose the KHL.

    Fact: there are solid reasons (waivers + significant development required at a higher level than the AHL but not at NHL level yet) why the team might push him to the KHL.

    A two-year deal suggests it might be the first, but depending on escape clause details, is hardly conclusive.

    Perhaps reserve the hardcore arguments for non-subjective topics like iOs vs Android. :-D

  27. Vaclav says:

    Bar_Qu,

    What better scouting report could the Oilers receive on Gardiner than that from Eakins? He had Gardiner for 43 games this past season. If he and the organization feel like he can develop into a top 3 defenceman and if they are still able to add another prospect at #21 then that would be good value IMO for #7OV.

  28. supernova says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Zack,

    I think we as fans need to recognize that the Oilers value the present now more than they do the future. And if they feel they can hit a ground double with a later pick and pick up a player who can help now, versus keeping the #7 and hitting a homerun, they are going to go with the ground double.

    And frankly, I can understand the impatience. As long as they don’t give up all their picks ( a la Darryl Sutter) and continue to get 3-5 reasonable prospects a draft, it is probably a wise strategy.

    BAR_QU
    Zack,

    I agree with this post completely.

    I am a huge draft fan and my preference would be to trade assets for a top 5 pick and get one of Barkov or Monahan, but this comes at a huge cost.

    Drafts are made on getting one standout player or on getting a couple of players that make the bigs.

    The Oilers also are at the spot where they need the 3 for 1 deal. if the 3 for 1 comes in the form of trading three (or 4) assets without giving up one of your core assets (Hall, Nuge, Ebs, Schultz, Yak) you pull the trigger.

    We need Quality not quantity, and if you can’t get top level quality you re-assess.

    If you cant get your standout player, and you could get a current NHL player and a pick you do it.

    I cant see Toronto doing that deal (the 7th for Gardiner and the 21st) but that is a sample of what we need now. especially if you could stay in the first round.

    guys like Rychel, Hartman, Horvat, Lazar are the player types we need now. Guys that skate through the boards for their teammates. We have the skill on the front end we need the team guys that have skill but are more measured by their hearts and effort.

  29. RMGS says:

    I have no idea what Coach Eakins will do with our glorious Oilers (though I”m looking forward to the multiple systems deployment), but anyone who takes on Don “Blowhard” Cherry so adeptly looks good in my books:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=umq8SKOjpaM

    Here’s a story that includes Cherry’s comments:

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2012/10/03/don_cherrys_remarks_on_nazem_kadri_prompt_marlies_coach_dallas_eakins_to_fire_back.html

  30. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Patricia Teter ‏@Artful_Puck 13s
    #OKCBarons RT @IgorEronko: #KHL Ufa #Salavat confirms signing of #Oilers F Teemu Hartikainen for 2 years

    Two year deal. I don’t think they gave Harski a good exit meeting and his agent found him a place to play. Doubt we see him again,

    I remain hopeful they will qualify him and retain his rights.

    Below is Giordano’s career progression, perhaps Harski can be the same.

    2004-2005 LOWELL LOCK MONSTERS-AHL
    2005-2006 FLAMES
    2005-2006 OMAHA AK-SAR-BEN KNIGHTS-AHL
    2006-2007 FLAMES
    2006-2007 OMAHA AK-SAR-BEN KNIGHTS-AHL

    Perhaps this is a good thing.

    If the Oilers are serious about not developing players at the AHL level, perhaps they thought Harski would be better served playing in the KHL so as to not have to expose him to waivers here and go through the fun of developing at the NHL level.

    I’m looking forward to the day that the 23 man roster has 23 actual NHL players.

  31. supernova says:

    Woodguy,

    agreed,

    my thoughts where the same, I thought about Giordano.

    It seems most view the KHL as the second best league, a touch better than the A and a full step behind the NHL.

    He is playing up a level, he showed as well as he could at the A, but still not ready for the NHL.

  32. Captain Obvious says:

    The #7 for Gardiner and the #21 is preposterous from Toronto’s point of view.

    Trading the #7 for Gardiner straight up would be a FnA trade for the Oilers. The question isn’t whether the Oilers should trade the #7 for Gardiner, that is beyond dispute, the question is whether the Leafs are dumb enough to make that trade.

    Gardiner is one of the best 50 Dmen in the world still on his entry level deal. You grossly overvalue draft picks if you think there is a reasonable chance that Monahan or Nurse will ever be as good as Gardiner is today.

  33. Zack says:

    Bar_Qu,

    I respect that train of thought and I appreciate the continuation of the baseball analogy. However I’m not quite sold on Gardiner. I know the potential is there however I feel the Oilers should be in search of an established number one/top pairing D-man or young top potential 1/2 Center (B. Schenn/Couturier may be on the move) if the pick was to be moved. I know both the team and fans alike want to compete now but I still value that #7 Overall more than a move like that. Plus if he establishes himself in a year or two (#7 OV) I think he could garner more attention as a bargaining chip later on down the road.

    Even though I have some concerns with Nichushkin I could see him playing in the NHL next season. Now of course he wouldn’t have a rookie year like Selanne but I think he could put up some decent numbers and having a coach like Eakins could go a long way with his development.

    Could you imagine a top six of…

    Hall/Gagner/Eberle
    Nichushkin/RNH/Yakupov

    As for Monahan and Lindholm I’m pretty sure they’d take some time to season. I also think that a lot of people under estimate Monahan’s offensive potential (he almost doubled in points the next closet player on his team). He may be able to play a 3C role but it would probably be best he’s returned to junior for another year. As for Lindholm I’ve read he’d honor his contract with the SEL, which is fair. As for those two I could see the top six like this…

    Hall/RNH/Eberle
    Yakupov/Monahan/Gagner

    or

    Hall/RNH/Eberle
    Yakupov/Lindholm/Gagner or Yakupov/Gagner/Lindholm

  34. supernova says:

    Captain Obvious,

    There is a very reasonable chance that Monahan is ever as good as Gardiner.

    Is he currently obviously not, but a very reasonable chance. Better than a chance.

    What did i write?

    i do this deal in a heartbeat, but don’t see how Toronto would.

  35. LMHF#1 says:

    And this is already driving me nuts…

    Is it Eekins or Ehkins?

    During his playing career and according to MacTavish it is Eek. The media seems to think otherwise.

    Which is it?

  36. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    Only thing wrong with that rumor is Toronto does not do the deal and going by Unc Bob’s comments Lazar is not available at 21.

  37. LMHF#1 says:

    Bohologo: I dunno man, sounds like a case of penny wise, pound foolish.

    (That was awful. I am so sorry.)

    Meh, I enjoyed it.

  38. Lois Lowe says:

    I am pretty ambivalent to Hartikainen leaving. He’s had his cup of coffee and he’s covered his draft bet. If he becomes something more than what he is now, then the Oilers still have his rights and have the option to qualify. He was, at best, a tweener and I don’t fault him for getting a payday in the KHL as he’s earned it. I am also uncomfortable with any kind of Bickel comparisons because he’s basically this year’s 2006 Pisani (aka John Druce).

    The real question is whether the Oilers will have a Finn on the roster next year with the loss of Petrell and Harti.

  39. Captain Obvious says:

    supernova:
    Captain Obvious,

    There is a very reasonable chance that Monahan is ever as good as Gardiner.

    Is he currently obviously not, but a very reasonable chance. Better than a chance.

    What did i write?

    i do this deal in a heartbeat, but don’t see how Toronto would.

    Jake Gardiner is Duncan Keith without the reputation and paycheck. His contract is one of the most valuable contracts in the league. Sean Monahan is a #2 center if everything goes right. The odds of Monahan being better than Gardiner are vanishingly small. The odds of him being the same are very small.

    Trading the #7 for Gardiner straight up is a no brainer. To see how this is true just replace the #7 with recent picks. For instance the only recent 5-10 pick who is even comparable to Gardiner is Sean Couturier but he was an absolute steal at #7 and is one of the best young players in the league. I’d rank him even with Gardiner. Other than take a look at 5-10 from recent drafts. The number of players as good as Gardiner is in the handfuls:

    2011
    Larrson
    Strome
    Zibanajed
    Scheifele
    Couturier
    Hamilton
    Brodin

    I’ll take Couturier and Brodin as comparable playersm, so 2 out of 7

    2010
    Gudbranson
    Johansen
    Niederreiter
    Connolly
    Skinner
    Burmistrov
    Granlund

    I’ll take only Skinner out of that group so 1 out of 7.

    This quick look tells me that you have a 3 out of 14 chance of getting a player comparable to Gardiner with the #7 pick, so 20%. That means the trade has an 80% chance of a franchise altering win for the Oilers and a 20% chance of a push to a slight loss.

  40. RMGS says:

    This may have been posted in previous articles here, but it’s the best description of Coach Eakins’ “style” that I’ve read to date:

    http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/9/dallas-eakins-heads-to-edmonton

  41. Lois Lowe says:

    LT – Just listening to the show, I have to disagree with your assessment RE: playing time in OKC for prospects. Just throwing rookies out to the wolves did not work in Springfield and it doesn’t work in the NHL. How do you give the rookies playing time without throwing them in the deep end?

  42. supernova says:

    Captain Obvious: Jake Gardiner is Duncan Keith without the reputation and paycheck.His contract is one of the most valuable contracts in the league.Sean Monahan is a #2 center if everything goes right.The odds of Monahan being better than Gardiner are vanishingly small.The odds of him being the same are very small.

    Trading the #7 for Gardiner straight up is a no brainer.To see how this is true just replace the #7 with recent picks.For instance the only recent 5-10 pick who is even comparable to Gardiner is Sean Couturier but he was an absolute steal at #7 and is one of the best young players in the league.I’d rank him even with Gardiner. Other than take a look at 5-10 from recent drafts.The number of players as good as Gardiner is in the handfuls:

    2011
    Larrson
    Strome
    Zibanajed
    Scheifele
    Couturier
    Hamilton
    Brodin

    I’ll take Couturier and Brodin as comparable playersm, so 2 out of 7

    2010
    Gudbranson
    Johansen
    Niederreiter
    Connolly
    Skinner
    Burmistrov
    Granlund

    I’ll take only Skinner out of that group so 1 out of 7.

    This quick look tells me that you have a 3 out of 14 chance of getting a player comparable to Gardiner with the #7 pick, so 20%.That means the trade has an 80% chance of a franchise altering win for the Oilers and a 20% chance of a push to a slight loss.

    I understand what you are saying but we clearly don’t see Gardiner in the same class.

    In my opinion he isn’t even in the same category as Keith, more in the category of Nick Leddy, but i would take Leddy over him.

    Also Gardiner was drafted in 2008 and those examples of drafts are 2010 and 2011. They need time to develop.

    Draft picks fluctuate in value throughout the year, for example at the trade deadline draft picks are at a much lower value, but at the draft they are worth a lot more, add more value this year because of its “aura”. I would say the “velocity of money” theory applies to this, i would call this the “velocity of a draft pick”

    We are debating the value of Gardiner when neither of us think that Toronto would trade him for the 7th and include the 21st. I would love that trade for the Oilers but don’t see how or why Toronto would. Once again if you can get a roster player and a first rounder for a higher first rounder you do this instantly, I said you do this all the time from here on out if you are the oilers unless you can get one of the “elite” players in the draft which would normally be one of the top 2 picks, this year it might be the first 4 or 5.

    Quality of Quantity is the name of the game from now on. a few years ago it was fill the seats, with anybody with a heartbeat, because their system was devoid of high end talent.

  43. Captain Obvious says:

    supernova,

    Wow, we really disagree on Gardiner’s value. Leddy has never had a season as good as Gardiner was last year. This year was a bit of a wasted year but by eye he was the best player on the ice against the Bruins in the games I watched.

    Gardiner is the defenseman on the Leafs and he would be the best defenseman on the Oilers. He’s still on his ELC. That’s great value for the #7 pick.

  44. Hall Awaits says:

    Did anyone else catch Stauffers suttle Couturier for 7th talk during the post press conference talk with Tencer?

  45. supernova says:

    Captain Obvious,

    Box cars for both;

    Nick Leddy
    Games Played 176 Goals 13 Assists 49 Points 62

    Jake Gardiner

    Games Played 87 Goals 7 Assists 27 Points 34

    very similar production, add in the fact that Leddy has played more games and more playoff games.

    I bet there is no way Chicago trades Leddy straight up for Gardiner, but the leafs would do that deal.

    Anyhow i think we agree you couldn’t get either of these players for the 7th if you did, you run as fast as you can to the bank, and cash that cheque.

  46. Bar_Qu says:

    Zack,

    I was more commenting on the Oilers being likely to trade the pick for an impact roster player, not necessarily Gardiner. The #7 for Gardiner and #21 seems a steep price for TO to pay, but I do think they are under more pressure to follow up this year’s fluke with more success next year. And unless they are stupid, they recognise improvement is needed to repeat.

    The Oilers on the other hand, will likely deal with anyone to get what they need, which makes Columbus and Tyutin likely the place they send #7 to, imo.

    Regardless, I don’t generally like trading first rounders (bad idea overall) but I think it is a foregone conclusion this year.

  47. VOR says:

    Captain Obvious,

    Several problems with your argument.

    While Gardiner is a promising young defenceman he was not #1 on TO. That was Phaneuf, by miles. In 2011-12 when Gardiner played regularly in the NHL he was facing butter soft minutes and not doing as well with them as Gunnarsson and Phaneuf who were facing some of the toughest minutes in the NHL.

    In this years playoffs where Gardiner looked great he still wasn’t #1. He lead the team in ES minutes but virtually never saw the ice short handed and only limited duty on the power play. His plus minus was -3. He also doesn’t hit, isn’t above average at blocking shots and in 2011-2012 absolutely bleed turnovers and couldn’t win a puck battle.

    While he might eventually be far better than any of the players available to the Oilers at #7 it isn’t the slam dunk you seem to think.

  48. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    LT ‘s so polite not singlng out anyone out, But just as an example Spector’s either trolling for his listeners or not thinking when he talks about Eakins needing to bench Hall on giveaways. When Eakins talks about not being predictable let’s hope he’s rewarding players for overall hockey OBP (zone entries) not busting the guy who brings it in more than one way. Elsewhere on the dial Stauffer’s fallen in love with 5×5 shot differential and the regression of Shooting and Save %. Figures if Eakins can get the Oilers percentage of shots above 50%, they might win consistently. Who knew?

  49. theres oil in virginia says:

    supernova,
    Captain Obvious,
    VOR,
    This is a really good back and forth regarding Gardiner. It seems that all three agree that Gardiner is worth more than the #7 pick, but there’s disagreement on just how much more. I’ve read some articles lately (The Hockey News, National Post) gushing about Gardiner. It sounds like he’s a pretty confident young man and offensively gifted, but like most young defensemen he needs seasoning on the defensive side of the game. Personally, I’d like to see him seasoned in Edmonton. What would it take to get him?

    #7 + Nick Schultz? More?

  50. VOR says:

    Theres Oil In Virginia,

    I’d say probably the 7OV, Nick Schultz and the 56OV would be about fair.

  51. theres oil in virginia says:

    VOR:
    Theres Oil In Virginia,

    I’d say probably the 7OV, Nick Schultz and the 56OV would be about fair.

    Then, by all means, send them away! Put bows on them if you have to. Could this be considered the mystical “3-for-1″. No wonder LT likes that concept so much.

  52. supernova says:

    theres oil in virginia: Then, by all means, send them away!Put bows on them if you have to.Could this be considered the mystical “3-for-1″.No wonder LT likes that concept so much.

    I would do that as well. I think Nick Schultz is gone after this year anyway. If we are to improve he is the most replaceable on the back-end.

  53. supernova says:

    VQR,
    There’s Oil in Virginia,
    Captain Obvious,

    Since we are discussing Toronto Defencemen, what does Toronto do with Liles?

    i think they solve that before they do anything with Gardiner, and then where is Morgan Reilly at development wise.

    I think he is a heck of a pick, i have seen him play many many times in the WHL and he is an absolute thrill to watch, he is so smooth and effortless.

    I believe the options for him this year are NHL or WHL no option for AHL due to being under 20.

    He has zero left to prove at the WHL and plays for a bad team. Do the Leafs keep both Gardiner and Reilly on their team? Gardiner could be more tradeable then we think.

  54. Bag of Pucks says:

    Captain Obvious: Jake Gardiner is Duncan Keith without the reputation and paycheck.

    Someone should tell Randy Carlyle. For a player who’s as good as a Norris Trophy winner, he sure sits in the press box a lot.

  55. VOR says:

    I wish we had minutes played, quality of competition, etc. from the AHL. The only warning flag on Gardiner is that the Oilers can’t provide him (as things stand) with the kind of sheltering he got in 2011-2012 with the Leafs and while he looked great in the playoffs this year that is just 6 games. I’d be much more inclined to go all in on the kid if he was killing it in the AHL with little help and facing the toughs.

    What if he was playing with Paul Ranger or Mike Kostka and facing the soft parade?

    Eakins would know and has probably been asked by MacT if the Oilers are actually interested. We on the other hand have no way of knowing. It tempers my enthusiasm somewhat.

  56. VOR says:

    Supernova,

    Actually, in his brief AHL audition this year Rielly looked very good but struggled with the bigger faster players and is probably a year away. I agree that if he needed big NHL minutes this year Gardiner might be tradable. However, that seems to be at least a year away. The Leafs also have Stuart Percy a kid I have always really liked and while his audition was shorter he seems to have shown some signs of being a fine defender. In fact, the Leafs are stocked with D at every level.

  57. Captain Obvious says:

    I would trade the #7, Schultz, and another pick for Gardiner in a second, and I agree that it is a more realistic price.

    I also agree that a trade for Liles is more likely, and much less exciting.

  58. theres oil in virginia says:

    supernova,
    Yeah, that was my next question: Does Toronto feel they can afford to trade Gardiner for futures, with Nick Schultz (not really) filling the gap? I tend to think they don’t want to part with Gardiner and won’t unless Edmonton gives them more than “fair value”.

    VOR,
    But, assuming Toronto would trade him for fair value, where would Edmonton put him? My enthusiasm is also tempered somewhat, due to his probable inability to play rock-solid defense, at least for now.

    Can the Oilers get by with:
    Smid-Petry
    Belov-Gardiner
    …and shelter Justin Schultz (or Belov) with 3rd pairing minutes as needed? Am I missing someone on the back end? I hope so.

  59. supernova says:

    VOR,

    Thats what I was meaning they are caught in the middle unless I am wrong on his contract.

    He needs another year at higher level than the WHL, because he has nothing to prove there. I believe the options for Rielly are NHL or WHL, and they cant (or maybe more accurately won’t) be able to keep a roster that would include LIles, Gardiner, and Rielly. Good grief the other half of their pairings would have to be Kevin Lowe or Randy Carlyle in their playing days to make the playoffs again.

    If they were able to trade for gardiner and pair him with a Nick Schultz type for one year on the third pairing it would be ideal.

  60. supernova says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    theres oil in virginia:
    supernova,
    Yeah, that was my next question: Does Toronto feel they can afford to trade Gardiner for futures, with Nick Schultz (not really) filling the gap?I tend to think they don’t want to part with Gardiner and won’t unless Edmonton gives them more than “fair value”.

    VOR,
    But, assuming Toronto would trade him for fair value, where would Edmonton put him?My enthusiasm is also tempered somewhat, due to his probable inability to play rock-solid defense, at least for now.

    Can the Oilers get by with:
    Smid-Petry
    Belov-Gardiner
    …and shelter Justin Schultz (or Belov) with 3rd pairing minutes as needed?Am I missing someone on the back end?I hope so.

    Lets run a scenario down the line,

    Bozak doesn’t re-sign they need help at center. Mact is on record as saying Horcoff is available. MacT pays a portion of the contract. They needed a Horcoff tyoe in game 7, and they might have won.

    So maybe it plays out like Horcoff at a reduced rate plus the 7 and Marincin for Gardiner, and a Carter Ashton type back.

    thoughts?

  61. theres oil in virginia says:

    supernova,
    That strikes me as a lot more likely to get done than the previous, because now it hurts (at least) a little. I don’t Carter Ashton, but I know the #7 has value, and so does Marincin, and together with Horcoff (minus the salary), that’s a valuable package. I wouldn’t jump up and down with happiness if they made that deal, but I would feel like it was a good deal. (I have this feeling that Marincin is going to be good.)

    EDIT: that should read: “I don’t know Carter Ashton”

  62. Gerta Rauss says:

    supernova,

    I don’t follow Toronto as closely as others around here, but I’ve heard Liles name mentioned in the buyout discussions when Toronto is mentioned. Komisarek is a given for a buyout, I’m not sure if Liles would be considered. If it does come to that, perhaps Toronto would consider a Horcoff for Liles swap, and they can do whatever they want with Horc, including buying him out for less money that Liles would cost them.

    Both players have NMC/NTC so we’d have to get over that hurdle.

    Liles isn’t the shiny bauble that Gardiner is, but turning Horc into a useful piece for the 13/14 roster isn’t going to be easy.

  63. supernova says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    I was only listing Carter Ashton as most teams want something else back even if it is a throw in. Eakins would be familiar with any “throw in” type back and teams like to add these assets just in case one develops down the road.

    If Toronto took on Horcoff at a reduced rate that might be ideal for them, as they can the shift Grabo back to a more offensive role. He looked lost in the dying minutes of games, i have checked his advanced stats but I cant imagine they are good, in the playoffs.

  64. supernova says:

    Gerta Rauss,

    for sure he isn’t a shiny bauble as Gardiner.

    I was purely mentioning him, in that the leafs probably would have to make a decision on him first, before any decision on Gardiner. I wouldnt trade Horcoff for him, myself.

    Toronto isn’t in need of salary relief either or even greatly concerned over actual cash payouts.

    They might be the most likely team if the rumored deal of ” Dipietro and a high draft pick to a team is to play out.”

    They reportedly earned $10 million for 3 home games in the playoffs, if they can grab a few assets for a player that is to be bought out like Dipietro. They have the cash to do that.

  65. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “the mainstream media appear to feel coach Eakins is going to straighten out Taylor Hall (I can’t explain it)”

    What the H? Can I get a link on this? I’d love to read the argument that Hall needs some tough love. Sounds hilarious.

    On the Harti situation. Have we had anything from the Oilers on this? Were they part of this decision in some way (other than simply not offering a contract or not offering a very attractive one)?

    I’m guessing if they endorsed this move they might have been more vocal about it…

    If we lose another potentially useful NHL player (in the Omark mould of potentially losing such players) it isn’t a great sign. If we are simply taking a funny development route, I’m all for it.

  66. Racki says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    “the mainstream media appear to feel coach Eakins is going to straighten out Taylor Hall (I can’t explain it)”

    What the H? Can I get a link on this? I’d love to read the argument that Hall needs some tough love. Sounds hilarious.

    I was thinking the same thing. But the MSM is also the same place that decided to make an ordeal out of Krueger being fired over Skype (when he’s all the way over in Switzerland). I’m sure Hall is so tough to real in. If he’s the worst of our problems, then I’m thinking this team is aces!

  67. Jordan says:

    supernova,

    Looking at Gardiner’s BTN numbers this year… the numbers are so small! There’s almost no sample size there to tell much about him. Easier zone starts, poor zone shift, slightly better corsi on, but still in the Red…

    Hist 11-12 numbers are for weaker competition, and easy zone starts.

    The Oilers don’t need more offensive d-men who need sheltering. Hell, they could have brought Whitney back for that.

    Picking up Liles for the Dirty Russian would be a lateral move for both teams.

    I’d rather not trade our 2nd best D prospect AND a top 10 1st for a Dman who needs seasoning and easy zone starts to generate, thanks. The Oilers need D-men who can PLAY DEFENSE. Gardiner may pick that up in a year or two… but he’s not there now, and as far as I can tell, we’d be better off with Marincin and Lindholm developing than giving them up for a guy we can’t afford to hide.

    There’s a difference between being bold and being reckless. This proposal seems more on the reckless side – hoping it doesn’t happen.

  68. DeadmanWaking says:

    I’m off on vacation tomorrow so I didn’t read the thread comments, but here’s the problem as I see it. Eakins seemed to be implying that there’s a fitness level (aka “26 minutes per night)) that Krueger wasn’t tapping into (we’re all trying to figure out what Eakins brings that Krueger didn’t). Didn’t Krueger say he was all about forcing the pace? And now Eakins says the same thing, but with mayo on top. That’s where my SR-71 / Aurora reference originated.

    MacT forced the pace, too, and what we recall from that era was eight home games a season where none of the players showed up (over-training malaise in my books) and TJ ran his customary whipping-dog piece. I don’t relish a return to that dynamic whatsoever.

    Furthermore, it’s easy to say “non-negotiable” coaching at the AHL level in Ontario. Harder to say on a team with Finns on the bubble eying up the KHL. Yes, indeed, Dorthy, they can leave town on the Keenan express.

    Here’s the story of another hard-line fitness disciplinarian:

    Canadian rowing coach Mike Spracklen sunk by friendly fire

    Loved and hated.

  69. Racki says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    I think no matter who we get here to coach, this team will always suck if we don’t have the right personnel for them to coach. I DO think coaching is important, but it’s only one piece of the puzzle. I support that MacTavish let Krueger go in favor of Eakins though, just because I think a manager and coach should be on the same page. I don’t think Krueger got a fair deal, because no coach could possibly be on the same page as Tambellini. So he unfortunately probably came here at a wrong time, and wrongly became a fall guy.

    But it’s up to MacTavish now to assemble all the pieces necessary for his coach to be successful. Something that a few coaches that have passed through here didn’t have the benefit of. So I think Eakins’ success will have much to do with what MacTavish does between now and Eakins’ inevitable last day here.

  70. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Looks like VAN and NYR might end up switching coaches:

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=425222

    seems pretty unlikely, but it would make for some interesting post game moments in our conference to have Tortorella around.

  71. Lois Lowe says:

    I think Jagr on a one year deal might be an interesting way to move forward with someone like Eakins in as coach. Friedman had an article recently about the former’s ridiculous conditioning and after hours work outs. He is a Hall of Fame calibre player that can teach a young club about what it takes to win in the NHL and the Oilers are likely to have room in their top 6 for a player with the exit of Hemmer or Horcoff of both.

    Which of the kids plays the same kind of game as Jagr?

  72. supernova says:

    Jordan,

    to each is own,

    I would take Gardiner, and shelter him for a year or two rather than pay someone like Striet 5 million a year for a 3 or 4 year term.

    It is for more plausible to grab a developing defenceman then to grab a already developed one because the cost is extremely high, and there aren’t alot to go around.

    by the way i am not sure if you read the full thread of comments but i wasn’t the one suggesting Gardiner or even advocating trading for Liles. The discussion was more around if gardiner was available what would it cost.

    I too believe there is better options out there, just how likely is a scenario to unfold. At the very least I floated out a scenario with Gardiner that could happen.

    if you like, float out a scenario..

  73. theres oil in virginia says:

    Jordan:
    supernova,

    The Oilers don’t need more offensive d-men who need sheltering.Hell, they could have brought Whitney back for that.

    I’d rather not trade our 2nd best D prospect AND a top 10 1st for a Dman who needs seasoning and easy zone starts to generate, thanks.

    Okay, fair points, but I can’t take seriously a comparison of Gardiner to present-day-Whitney. Whitney’s done.

    The sheltering is important though. Would he have to be sheltered in the 3rd pairing? I’m thinking 2nd pairing with no problem. What makes me nervous is the first pairing. Who are they. I don’t think the Oilers have one. So, from that standpoint I agree that taking on another 2nd pairing guy gives you a lot of 2nd pairing guys (at least 4, I think). I also don’t think it’s likely that the Oilers find a top pairing guy for next year. So, that’s why I posed the question regarding Smid-Petry as top pair. Is it feasible?

    Oh, and don’t forget we sent Horcoff along with the #7 and Marincin. Man, what a diss to Horc! Poor guy.

  74. Captain Happy says:

    Edmonton and Toronto are not very good trading partners.

    I keep seeing trade proposals involving Nick Schultz but no explanation of what the Leafs would want him for.

    The Leafs defensive depth includes:

    Phaneuf
    Gunnarsson
    Franson
    Gardiner
    Liles
    Kostka (UFA)
    Rielly
    Finn
    Percy
    Holzer

    While they do have a windfall of D depth, that is a very good reason why Schultz would not be of much interest.

    What the Leafs DO need is a first line centre and the team most likely to find one from is Colorado.

    I think, with new sheriffs in town (Sakic & Roy) there’s an excellent chance that Colorado opts to draft MacKinnon #1 overall meaning they will have an excess of centres with MacKinnon, Duchene, O’Reilly and Statsny.

    I can see the Leafs moving one of their excess D for Statsny.

    As Woodguy has often mentioned, if the Oilers are going to pursue a trade with the Leafs, they should focus their efforts on Grabovski who was not a Carlyle darling last season.

    Horcoff (at a reduced rate) and Hemsky might get that done.

  75. theres oil in virginia says:

    supernova,

    Yeah, I think it was me that was hot in pursuit of Gardiner, perhaps along with Captain Obvious.

    I don’t think Streit needs any less sheltering than Gardiner, either. I don’t see Streit as a top-pairing guy either. At least not better than Smid-Petry. I guess if there is a really good guy for the top pairing, he would make the other guys seem much better. In other words, I think Smid or Petry could be top guys, but only with the right partner.

  76. Jordan says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    supernova,

    I don’t have a scenario to throw out right now. Based on past experience, I see Oilers players through rose-coloured glasses, so… me making suggestions looks more like me trying to trade coal for diamonds.

    I think Gardiner’s more likely to be over-hyped than most players. I’d rather avoid anyone out of Toronto who is seen as a decent hockey player. Grabo might be the exception because of his supposed issues with the coach… Not sure if he’d be any better here on the Oilers 3rd line though.

    Lois Lowe,

    Really like the idea of picking up JJ, but I highly doubt it happens – he’s exactly waht we need, and he’s what many have suggested for years, but he’s never elected to come here. You really think he’d come now, as ALL of the old guard are leaving? The only perks I see for him are that he might get paid more, and that he would get traded at the deadline to a contender again if the team is still the shits.

    You know… maybe that is a compelling reason to sign here.

    I want to see the Oilers be really aggressive in the free agent and RFA market. Bring in some players who are good bets to fill roles around the kids. Grit, jam, 2-way players. MacAurthur could work, as could Bickle, Iginla, or others.

    I still really like the double-offer plan for St. Louis on Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo. Steal a top-flight D-man for some draft picks. Hell, you could do the same thing to LAK with Voynov & Martinez, and that would help.

    Regardless, they need to find a top pairing guy from somewhere, and the UFAs are shit for it. So, either RFAs or Trade, for sure.

    The questions about who fits on a top pairing though… those debates will be almost as interesting, no?

  77. supernova says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    I actually think it might be a better plan of action this year to add a couple of 2 through 4 defenceman and have them grow, because i dont see #1 D man available out there.

    In my opinion the most available (which i dont really think he is) is Probably Kris Letang, the only reason he would be available is by cap crunch. which Pittsburgh isn’t in right now. However if they sign Malkin to what will likely be a massive Annual Average contract they might have to move a Letang because his cap hit will be also large. How much can one team have tied up in three players is the question.

    So in my opinion it might be only plausible to add these 3′s and 4′s but maybe MacT will shock me.

    One of the most achievable just might be Alex Goligski in Dallas, after they just signed Gonchar.

    I like your idea of Gardiner as In my opinion it is far more plausible than some others out there (aka Weber, I dont see how Nashville can even think about moving him with all that cash out there)

  78. supernova says:

    Jordan,

    I would agree with your sentiment regarding Toronto, i think that it has changed with the hiring of Eakins as he has the real info on those players. It is more likely now then it was last week.

    I ask for examples because it is always easy to discredit but hard to construct.

    Your idea of a double offer sheet might work on St. Louis.

    I think the Gardiner talk has some substance because of the lack of quality top flight D that are attainable. slim chance but still a chance

  79. Rondo says:

    I’d rather have a Darnell Nurse type Dman then Jake Gardiner. We already have Schultz and Klefbom.

  80. theres oil in virginia says:

    Rondo:
    I’d rather have a Darnell Nurse type Dmanthen Jake Gardiner.We already have Schultz and Klefbom.

    Maybe so, but Nurse is definitely not help for next year. You think just fill the gap for now and wait?

  81. Rondo says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    I think ,if you think Nurse has potential to become a #1 D man then you take him and wait.

    Oilers need to get better quick but they are years away of becoming a potential Stanley Cup team.

  82. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Rondo:
    I’d rather have a Darnell Nurse type Dmanthen Jake Gardiner.We already have Schultz and Klefbom.

    Maybe I’m missing the subtext here… but my understanding was that Schultz and Klefbom aren’t very similar hockey players.

  83. theres oil in virginia says:

    Rondo,
    Agreed about Nurse, if he has that potential. I didn’t know that folks were thinking that about him. I have no clue, personally.

  84. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Didn’t Stauffer compile some weird list a couple of weeks back that ran “barkov, monahan, zadorov, lazar”?

    have the Oil ever mentioned Nurse… or are they mum on him like Lindholm?

  85. Rondo says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    This is what I like about Nurse

    http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2013/05/my-final-top-50-ohl-players-for-2013_27.html

    “Offensively, he’s very solid and there’s massive room for growth in that department. He played on the second powerplay unit because the Hounds had two of the best (including the CHL d-man of the year) running the top unit, which got 75% of the time. When he’s on the first unit next year, his stat line will jump.”

  86. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    “i think that it has changed with the hiring of Eakins as he has the real info on those players. It is more likely now then it was last week.”

    Believe you are right that personal knowledge lubricates trades.

    Forgot which ex-gm said trades always add risk on both sides because both sellers know more than both buyers. So the trick is to balance the need for change with reducing those risks.

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