ENTRY DRAFT POST 24: TRADE WATCH FRIDAY

The Edmonton Oilers are in New York getting ready for Draft Day 2013. Dallas Eakins has his right hand man, and my guess is we’ll see some action sometime today on the transaction front. Sam Gagner’s contract and maybe a minor deal appear possible before midnight.

THE LIST

  1. Sign Sam Gagner to a multi-year deal that has begins with a number in the 4′s.
  2. Get Paajarvi signed and then find a role that suits him (suspect it’s 3line).
  3. Deal Hemsky for immediate help (even if its a checker).
  4. Deal Horcoff or slot him into the 3line job for which he is actually ideal.
  5. Find a 2line L who can complement Gagner-Yakupov with puck retrieval, blocking out the sun, etc
  6. Find a 3line C and L to play with Paajarvi
  7. Find a 4line C to play with Smyth/Brown
  8. Decide on Lander/Belanger or other for 13F (and 14F if they go with 7D).
  9. Top 4 defender (a genuinely effective one, no ‘almosts or sortas’)
  10. Better blue depth (MacT has done this with Belov, plus Klefbom/Fedun/Marincin)
  11. Backup goalie
  12. AHL #1/NHL #3 goalie
  13. Sign Paul Ranger

That’s a lot of work. This is such an interesting draft weekend, the most interesting in many year.

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117 Responses to "ENTRY DRAFT POST 24: TRADE WATCH FRIDAY"

  1. PDO says:

    What’s better:

    Gagner 25/5 with no NTC.

    Gagner 22.5/5 with an NTC?

    I’d lean towards the first option I think.

  2. Caribbeerman says:

    1). Trade Sam Gagner if you can’t agree to a NTC with him?

  3. LMHF#1 says:

    Does anyone know when we could theoretically sign Paul Ranger? He doesn’t have an NHL deal as I understand.

  4. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Couple of think pieces on the NBA draft that probably apply to the NHL draft dealing with the labor rights of players and competitive balance of leagues:

    http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2013/06/27/2224321/the-nba-draft-is-a-terrible-idea/?mobile=nc

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/06/27/nba_draft_bailout_north_american_talent_allocation_sucks.html

  5. VanOil says:

    While waiting for Trade Friday to kick in watch Cory Crawfords speach and his Captains response.

    http://deadspin.com/corey-crawfords-speech-at-the-blackhawks-parade-was-sh-610667553?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

    We wait knowing that Gagner, Eberle and Hall would all make good Captainsbut lets do some thing bold. Give Yak the #10 and the C no one will out work him or have more passion for the Game.

  6. PDO says:

    VanOil:
    While waiting for Trade Friday to kick in watch Cory Crawfords speach and his Captains response.

    http://deadspin.com/corey-crawfords-speech-at-the-blackhawks-parade-was-sh-610667553?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

    We wait knowing that Gagner, Eberle and Hall would all make good Captainsbutlets do some thing bold. Give Yak the #10 and the C no one will out work him or have more passion for the Game.

    On a scale of one to Amanda Bynes how drunk is Corey Crawford?

  7. eidy says:

    Loving the draft information and I become more of a Junkie every year. Hopefully the next seven days involves this

    Hopefully they can get Gagner signed. I prefer him on the wing, but then we need a 2nd line centre.

    #7 Monahan, alternatives in order Lindholm or Nukushkin, suspect they like Nurse more
    #37 Keep the pick, deep draft, trade next years 2nd, take De La Rose, Shea Theodore, or Santini
    #56 take the goalie here if you want, Jarry or Comrie, I would also consider Hurley or Kujawinski, he didn’t have a great draft year, but I have liked what I saw of him in the past.

    Trade Hemsky and Horcoff… hurts to type that,
    Sign Stalberg to play 3rd line minutes. He didn’t have a good playoffs some of which I suspect was related to his comments re coming off the powerplay, all the better for us. good player that can play up if needed
    Boyd Gordon and Paul Ranger, yes please
    sign MPS, a 3rd line of stalberg, arcobello/gordon, MPS would do just fine

    all this before I go fishing July 6th.

  8. bookje says:

    PDO:
    What’s better:

    Gagner 25/5 with no NTC.

    Gagner 22.5/5 with an NTC?

    I’d lean towards the first option I think.

    What’s important is that the Oilers (and fans) understand that this is the tradeoff, less money for a NTC because the team takes a greater risk. Some teams (I won’t mention Calgary due to the recent drowning by mud of their mascot) have given out NTC’s without gaining any reduction in monetary compensation which is stupid.

  9. PDO says:

    bookje: What’s important is that the Oilers (and fans) understand that this is the tradeoff, less money for a NTC because the team takes a greater risk.Some teams (I won’t mention Calgary due to the recent drowning by mud of their mascot) have given out NTC’s without gaining any reduction in monetary compensation which is stupid.

    Absolutely.

    I have no issue giving out NTC’s, but it better result in a better cap hit. That’s the trade off.

    Ryan Rishaug ‏@TSNRyanRishaug 3m
    I fully expect the Oilers to be in the chase for Braydon Coburn. Not sure what asking price would be.

    What’s acceptable to bring in Coburn?

    I’d do our 2nd and Musil in a heart beat – is that enough? Probably not?

  10. Nicholas says:

    Does anybody know how valued Dubinsky is in Columbus?

    Is there any possibility a Gagner+ for Dubinsky+ trade could work? Would we do that trade if it was on the table?

  11. Young Oil says:

    Nicholas,

    I would do that in a second, we need a guy like Dubinski. I’d love to get Nikitin from CBJ as well.

    Just throwing it out there, Gagner+N.Schultz+Musil+ANA 2nd for Dubinski and Nikitin?

    Problem is, I know how Oilers fans see Gagner, but I honestly don’t know how the rest of the league perceives him. How desirable of an asset is he?

  12. BlacqueJacque says:

    PDO: On a scale of one to Amanda Bynes how drunk is Corey Crawford?

    He didn’t say anything about Drake wrecking him, so… just shy of Amanda Bynes.

  13. Nicholas says:

    Dubinsky, 83G, 150A, 233 pts in 422 games
    Gagner, 91G, 167A, 258 pts in 414 games

    Gagner’s 3 years younger and at worst costs you $800k more than you are paying Dubinsky. On a team with Anisimov (6’4) and Johansen (6’3), you’d think the Blue Jackets could afford a ‘small’ skilled centre.

  14. Marc says:

    PDO:
    What’s acceptable to bring in Coburn?

    I’d do our 2nd and Musil in a heart beat – is that enough?Probably not?

    I think 7 and Potter for 11 and Coburn might be closer to what Holmgren is looking for.

  15. Wolfpack says:

    Coburn is definitely not a player I have “seen good”. I just can’t get the image out of my head of him getting turned inside-out by Hemsky. Yet we want to move Hemsky and bring in Coburn. Kind leaves a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I think one of the stats guys broke down Coburn’s numbers and they were in decline, though I could also be thinking of the wrong player.

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dreger said Flyers are looking for help up front. Maybe Hemsky if we eat some salary? Otherwise it might be Magnus or a wildcard like Rajala. At any rate, they’ll want someone cheap.

  17. Gerta Rauss says:

    Wolfpack,

    maybe you’re thinking of Bruce Cockburn..?..:)

  18. Wolfpack says:

    Gerta Rauss: Wolfpack, maybe you’re thinking of Bruce Cockburn..?..:)

    LOL – Actually I was thinking of this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOsGyrdDgBs

  19. khildahl says:

    Wolfpack:
    Coburn is definitely not a player I have “seen good”. I just can’t get the image out of my head of him getting turned inside-out by Hemsky. Yet we want to move Hemsky and bring in Coburn. Kind leaves a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I think one of the stats guys broke down Coburn’s numbers and they were in decline, though I could also be thinking of the wrong player.

    If getting beat on a rush by Ales Hemsky means someone is a bad defenseman, there are a lot of bad defensemen in the NHL.

  20. Gerta Rauss says:

    Coburn is far from perfect but he checks off enough boxes when discussing the type of D the Oilers require that I would be OK with him. If Philly is looking to shed some salary on the back end perhaps they would be interested in a swap for Nick Schultz-we could even retain a little salary to sweeten the deal.

    I’ve mentioned Meszaros as an option as well.

    edit-and yeah, Hemsky has undressed a lot of quality D, I wouldn’t put too much stock on 1 rush/goal.

  21. Smarmy says:

    There was a play in Nuge’s rookie season where he completely clowned Lidstrom. Don’t think it hurt Nik’s rep any.

  22. Bag of Pucks says:

    I think Oil mgmt would be smart to pay a little extra to avoid NTCs in all their contracts.

    Sends the consistent message across the org that compensation is based on performance. Thus the team holds the right to deal the player should performance dip.

    Lot of folks saying now that Vinny Lecavalier phoned it in on a lot of nights after winning the Cup and getting the big guaranteed deal with TBay. Would imagine that’s a lot more common than we’d like to think once these lads are set for life.

    By sake of comparison, the NFL doesn’t guarantee contracts. It seems like a pretty brutal labour practise for such a short and injurious occupation, but those guys bring it every game to stay on the gravy train.

    Say no to No Trade Clauses. Make them earn it.

  23. FastOil says:

    Bag of Pucks:

    Say no to No Trade Clauses. Make them earn it.

    I think the quality of play would be better without guaranteed contracts. There are plenty of nights when entire teams mail it in for whatever reason. Shorten the season as well while you’re at it.

  24. RexLibris says:

    bookje: What’s important is that the Oilers (and fans) understand that this is the tradeoff, less money for a NTC because the team takes a greater risk.Some teams (I won’t mention Calgary due to the recent drowning by mud of their mascot) have given out NTC’s without gaining any reduction in monetary compensation which is stupid.

    Feaster found a loophole around those NTCs though – make the team so gawdawful that no player in his right mind would hesitate to waive that NTC just to go play somewhere else.

    Problem solved.

  25. PDO says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    I think Oil mgmt would be smart to pay a little extra to avoid NTCs in all their contracts.

    Sends the consistent message across the org that compensation is based on performance. Thus the team holds the right to deal the player should performance dip.

    Lot of folks saying now that Vinny Lecavalier phoned it in on a lot of nights after winning the Cup and getting the big guaranteed deal with TBay. Would imagine that’s a lot more common than we’d like to think once these lads are set for life.

    By sake of comparison, the NFL doesn’t guarantee contracts. It seems like a pretty brutal labour practise for such a short and injurious occupation, but those guys bring it every game to stay on the gravy train.

    Say no to No Trade Clauses. Make them earn it.

    Of course, NFL players can also hold out and get massive signing bonuses.

  26. Bag of Pucks says:

    RexLibris: Feaster found a loophole around those NTCs though – make the team so gawdawful that no player in his right mind would hesitate to waive that NTC just to go play somewhere else.

    Problem solved.

    Flames longterm prospects under current GM?

    Feaster Famine

  27. RexLibris says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t Coburn kind of a shutdown guy? Why would MacTavish go that route when he has Smid? More likely he’d target Ference, in my opinion.

    I suspect they’ll sign Gagner, draft Monahan, play Gagner down the middle unless a 2C option opens up this summer (likely not) and then move Gagner to the wing next season and bring Monahan in to play 3rd or 2nd line center the year after.

    Or is that too methodical to expect from this team?

  28. misfit says:

    Is Ference more of a puck mover or offensive defenseman than Coburn? Not from where I’m standing.

    Coburn is a legitimate top 4 defenseman in his prime whereas Ference is a 3rd pairing defenseman who will likely be out of the league in another 2-3 years.

  29. Bag of Pucks says:

    PDO: Of course, NFL players can also hold out and get massive signing bonuses.

    Appropriate response?

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/story/2012-09-02/maurice-jones-drew-ends-holdout/57536136/1

  30. khildahl says:

    Smarmy:
    There was a play in Nuge’s rookie season where he completely clowned Lidstrom. Don’t think it hurt Nik’s rep any.

    I dunno… He stopped winning the Norris trophy after that.

    I’ve convinced myself there’s a causal relationship there.

  31. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    Putting the mock in mock draft:
    http://www.thescore.com/nhl/drafttracker

    Pulock with Monahan and Lindhold on the board?

  32. Cameron says:

    Nicholas:
    Dubinsky, 83G, 150A, 233 pts in 422 games
    Gagner, 91G, 167A, 258 pts in 414 games

    Gagner’s 3 years younger and at worst costs you $800k more than you are paying Dubinsky. On a team with Anisimov (6’4) and Johansen (6’3), you’d think the Blue Jackets could afford a ‘small’ skilled centre.

    The rep on Gagner is that; he is an avergae skater with nice hands, good on the PP, but can’t check his hat or win a face-off. He’s the new stats poster-child for ‘empty calorie’ offense that comes at the expense of anything resembling adequate defense. On a team with a screaming need for a productive offensive 2nd line center Gagner is being converted to the RW.

    In short, there is no way on God’s green Earth that CLB trades a useful, gritty, all-round competetive guy like Dubinsky for Gagner.

    It is every Flames fans hope that Gagner signs a long term, high $ deal (with NMC!) in Edmonton.

  33. Kris11 says:

    At the Tambellini house right now, Tambi and his dogs and cats are assembled in their “war room” preparing for the draft. His wife and kids have made a cardboard podium for him to walk up to in order to make his selection. Friends and neighbors will phone him throughout the day to make “trades.” A local Jewish kid actor has been hired to play Katz’ son to stand their while Tambellini makes picks.

  34. khildahl says:

    Kris11:
    Friends and neighbors will phone him throughout the day to make “trades.”

    Won’t that clue him in that it’s fake? Why ruin his play-time like that?

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Нинтендо⁶⁴:
    Putting the mock in mock draft:
    http://www.thescore.com/nhl/drafttracker

    Pulock with Monahan and Lindhold on the board?

    My favorite part is how each pick has both its cardinal number (1) and its ordinal number (1st) for some unnecessary reason.

  36. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Good god BM said EDM might pick up Luongo if he goes to waivers…

    Christ no.

  37. DBO says:

    Mentioned the Coburn and 11th for Potter and 7th a few days back. Mackenzie saying MacT wants NHL players, so we will be looking into moving it.

    As for the 2nds, MacT outright said he looks at them as currency to get NHLers. Still hope for Peverley form Bruins. They need to shed money, and he is a solid fit at a reasonable price for 2 years as our 3rd line centre.

    Friedman on Spector today mentioend he thinks this will be busiest ever and almost a reset for the whole league in the amount of deals made this summer.

    Never been more excited for an off season.

  38. maudite says:

    Tomas Kaberle on a cheap deal for the LHD make any sense?

  39. fifthcartel says:

    Bob MacKenzie said Ottawa wants to move up into the top 10 to try and get Monahan, and he thinks Edmonton moves it for something more ‘tangible’.

  40. "Steve Smith" says:

    Rondo,

    Curtis Lazar apparently has “off-the-charts intangibles”. I would like to see how these intangibles are charted, exactly.

  41. BlacqueJacque says:

    fifthcartel,

    If Monahan is good enough for Ottawa behind Spezza and Zibanejad, he’s good enough for Edmonton. Trading down so very rarely works.

  42. BlacqueJacque says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Rondo,

    Curtis Lazar apparently has “off-the-charts intangibles”.I would like to see how these intangibles are charted, exactly.

    Tim Tebow had off the charts intangibles, too. I much prefer tangibles.

  43. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Rondo,

    Curtis Lazar apparently has “off-the-charts intangibles”.I would like to see how these intangibles are charted, exactly.

    His fitness trainer is Don Mann

    http://www.usfrogmann.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/don-mann-off-the-charts-cover.png

  44. RexLibris says:

    Cameron: The rep on Gagner is that; he is an avergae skater with nice hands, good on the PP, but can’t check his hat or win a face-off. He’s the new stats poster-child for ‘empty calorie’ offense that comes at the expense of anything resembling adequate defense. On a team with a screaming need for a productive offensive 2nd line center Gagner is being converted to the RW. In short, there is no way on God’s green Earth that CLB trades a useful, gritty, all-round competetive guy like Dubinsky for Gagner. It is every Flames fans hope that Gagner signs a long term, high $ deal (with NMC!) in Edmonton.

    Let’s assume the Oilers overpay to keep a NTC off the books, I think we’d still be talking a maximum of $5 million over perhaps four years, taking Gagner to around 26 or 27 years old.

    At that price, I think the Oilers, under a cap that is expected to at least rebound to $70 million, if not exceed that number in the next three years, could absorb that salary. Also, while I agree that he has some noticeable deficiencies to his game, there would likely still be some trade value for a young-ish center-winger at that price. Never underestimate what another GM is willing to buy.

    I had another look at that David Jones contract yesterday…that will be a very interesting situation to watch as it unfolds this year and next.

  45. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: His fitness trainer is Don Mannhttp://www.usfrogmann.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/don-mann-off-the-charts-cover.png

    I’ve always preferred the Don Draper fitness regimen.

  46. fifthcartel says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    fifthcartel,

    If Monahan is good enough for Ottawa behind Spezza and Zibanejad, he’s good enough for Edmonton.Trading down so very rarely works.

    So true, but I’m just waiting for the inevitable ‘Edmonton trades the 7th overall pick to _____ for the 1_ overall pick.’ on draft day.

  47. gogliano says:

    Rondo,

    I hope Pronman is right about Lindholm:

    “If Monahan is taken by now, I have heard that Edmonton is high on Lindholm as well. If the Oilers trade down, there are a number of players I believe they would target, including Zadorov, Darnell Nurse, Bo Horvat, and Curtis Lazar.”

    More generally, I hope Pronman is right that Nichushkin goes top 5 and the Oil are high on the two centers after Barkov.

  48. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    gogliano:
    Rondo,

    I hope Pronman is right about Lindholm:

    “If Monahan is taken by now, I have heard that Edmonton is high on Lindholm as well. If the Oilers trade down, there are a number of players I believe they would target, including Zadorov, Darnell Nurse, Bo Horvat, and Curtis Lazar.”

    More generally, I hope Pronman is right that Nichushkin goes top 5 and the Oil are high on the two centers after Barkov.

    Completely agreed. The Lindholm news is good. The continued fetishization of Zadarov is a worrying sign.

  49. BlacqueJacque says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Does Zadarov strike you as the McIlrath of this year’s draft?

  50. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Does Zadarov strike you as the McIlrath of this year’s draft?

    Their draft year numbers are near identical:

    Mc: 2009-10 Stats: 65 GP, 7 G, 17 A, 24 PTS

    Zad: 63 6 19 25

    Both huge, mean buggers.

  51. Mr DeBakey says:

    Bob MacKenzie said Ottawa wants to move up into the top 10 to try and get Monahan, and he thinks Edmonton moves it for something more ‘tangible’.

    Greening & the 17th, minimum

  52. gogliano says:

    Question for the draft junkies: Is there a good historical example of the Oilers misdirecting prior to a draft and then actually taking the someone they were silent about leading up to the draft (but who they should have been talking about given the player’s draft pedigree)? Or is this just something LT fantasizes about?

  53. BlacqueJacque says:

    gogliano,

    Kurri.

    But this was way back when scouting was as advanced as a bunch of concussed alcoholic ex-hockey players smoking cigars in a room talking the shit. Imagine 5 Kevin Lowes and 5 Steve Tambellinis deciding whether or not to pay Khabibulin or Bryzgalov another 4×4.

  54. speeds says:

    gogliano,

    Even if there were, I wouldn’t read too much into how things have been done before, with a new GM in place.

  55. RexLibris says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Does Zadarov strike you as the McIlrath of this year’s draft?

    Yes.

  56. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Det. locks up Miller and Kindl.

    It would be nice to hear about a Magnus contract soon.

  57. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Det. locks up Miller and Kindl.

    It would be nice to hear about a Magnus contract soon.

    I’m guessing they’ll announce it once the draft is done. He’s not really an offer sheet threat, in my opinion.

  58. Captain Happy says:

    Gil Roy ‏@GilroyTX 48m

    @SunGarrioch @tpanotchCSN @JoshuaCooper @Russostrib Four team trade in the works between Sens, Flyers, Preds and Wild. More detail shortly.
    Retweeted by Bruce Garrioch

  59. Tcharger says:

    Someone posted on an Ottawa site(my team) a three way may be in works with Ottawa, Edm, Van

  60. Kris11 says:

    a three way?

    Cue the 70′s music.

    Ba chicka wa wa.

  61. Kris11 says:

    A three way with Van probably means we get Luongo. Though this is just random rumor now.

  62. Tcharger says:

    Kris11,

    Yeah that is all I have it as as well…was hoping to see more information here actually.

    I would assume somehow it would involve Ottawa ending up with Edmontons 7th, Van with Ottawas 17th and Edmonton with Vancouvers 24th(?)

  63. Mr DeBakey says:

    I would assume somehow it would involve Ottawa ending up with Edmontons 7th, Van with Ottawas 17th and Edmonton with Vancouvers 24th(?)

    The Oilers are giving up the 7th and taking on Luongo’s contract?

    That’s not performance!

  64. Rondo says:

    I just hope Oilers don’t trade their 7th pick for Braydon Coburn and the 11th. Philly fans hate this guy , he is a turnover machine.

  65. Chris says:

    Coburn isn’t my first choice for bringing in a defenseman but he would be a marked improvement over some of the talents we deployed last year. The free agent defensemen available aren’t exactly overwhelming. Hainsey, Ferrance, Scuderi, Lyndman, Leopold, Aucoin, Zidlicky, Hammerlick, Lilja, Eaton, Poti. Basically alot of names that would have sound more exciting four or five years ago rather than now.

    Hainsey wouldn’t be a bad fit. Leopold would be alright too. Otherwise we are betting on which old timer still has something left in the tank.

  66. OilClog says:

    Rondo:
    http://thewoodercooler.com/2013/05/20/figuring-out-why-braydon-coburn-was-so-bad-in-2013-with-advanced-stats/

    Interesting article .

    So reading this leads one to believe he would be a natural fit with Jultz?

  67. Lowetide says:

    Willis

    Finally, Coburn is likely vulnerable after a poor season. He fell to a career-low minus-10 rating, went from 24 points in 81 games to five in 33, and saw took 18 minor penalties in an abbreviated season after taking only 22 in 81 games the year prior. Some of the problems were illusory – his on-ice save percentage (something he can’t control) was a miserable 0.888 5-on-5. His on-ice shooting percentage was also remarkably low, meaning the Flyers struggled to score on shots with him on the ice (again, something likely outside his control). At age 28, with lots of problems happening with him on the ice that aren’t necessarily his fault, and with a long track record of strong play, Coburn’s in the sweet spot where a new team can plausibly look at him as a strong rebound candidate and an old team could see him as expendable.

    It would be unsurprising in the least if the Oilers and Flyers were talking about the possibility of a trade.

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/06/25/are-edmonton-oilers-interested-in-philadelphia-flyers-braydon-coburn/

  68. Cameron says:

    RexLibris: Let’s assume the Oilers overpay to keep a NTC off the books, I think we’d still be talking a maximum of $5 million over perhaps four years, taking Gagner to around 26 or 27 years old.

    At that price, I think the Oilers, under a cap that is expected to at least rebound to $70 million, if not exceed that number in the next three years, could absorb that salary. Also, while I agree that he has some noticeable deficiencies to his game, there would likely still be some trade value for a young-ish center-winger at that price. Never underestimate what another GM is willing to buy.

    I had another look at that David Jones contract yesterday…that will be a very interesting situation to watch as it unfolds this year and next.

    There are many players on the Oilers that Flames fans should be rightly jealous of (Taylor Hall, I’m looking at you), but Sam Gagner is NOT one of them. He’s the worst kind of boat anchor possession wise, pads his stats with PP time, and brings noting to the table anywhere else (take a look at his WOWY numbers – he kills all good things). It’s not his cap hit that will be important, it’s the fact he is a crazy bad fit for the Oilers.

    The Jones contract isn’t likely to ever be a problem for the Flames given it will likely run out before the Flames are looking to spend money as part of making a big playoff push.

  69. Rondo says:

    Chris,

    I agree he would be better then some of Oilers Dmen, but at the cost of Monahan Lindholm or Nichushkin

    Oilers probably won’t be getting high picks in the draft anymore ?

  70. Gerta Rauss says:

    Rondo,

    I don’t think the Oilers make any moves until the first 6 names are called out-we’ll know where we stand after that.

    And I think there is other ways to acquire Coburn other than trading down from 7.

    That piece you linked above shows he had a poor season after several decent years, I think you have to look at a players body of work before deciding on a players effectiveness. And he is 28 years old.

  71. Woodguy says:

    misfit:
    Is Ference more of a puck mover or offensive defenseman than Coburn?Not from where I’m standing.

    Coburn is a legitimate top 4 defenseman in his prime whereas Ference is a 3rd pairing defenseman who will likely be out of the league in another 2-3 years.

    Ferrance lost all the corsis in the final.

    He was generally a drag on BOS in the regular season too.

    If you are slotting him above #5, its not good.

  72. Woodguy says:

    khildahl: I dunno…He stopped winning the Norris trophy after that.

    I’ve convinced myself there’s a causal relationship there.

    I remember that play very clearly.

    I remember thinking, “ha! the kid schooled that guy…..whoaaaaaa, that’s pretty cool”

    93′s edge work in top 10 in the league.

    Not many like him.

  73. Woodguy says:

    DBO:
    Mentioned the Coburn and 11th for Potter and 7th a few days back. Mackenzie saying MacT wants NHL players, so we will be looking into moving it.

    As for the 2nds, MacT outright said he looks at them as currency to get NHLers. Still hope for Peverley form Bruins. They need to shed money, and he is a solid fit at a reasonable price for 2 years as our 3rd line centre.

    Friedman on Spector today mentioend he thinks this will be busiest ever and almost a reset for the whole league in the amount of deals made this summer.

    Never been more excited for an off season.

    I read somewhere (no EDM connection) that MacTavish was “the most active GM, and his fingers in most of the pies”

    Refreshing when you are used to wondering if the GM of the team you root for used his phone for more than brick breaker.

  74. Woodguy says:

    maudite:
    Tomas Kaberle on a cheap deal for the LHD make any sense?

    None.

    The bottom of the D roster is full.

    Potter, Klef, Belov.

  75. Woodguy says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Rondo,

    Curtis Lazar apparently has “off-the-charts intangibles”.I would like to see how these intangibles are charted, exactly.

    Well it wouldn’t last long now would it, with it going off and all.

  76. Woodguy says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Does Zadarov strike you as the McIlrath of this year’s draft?

    He skates and passes too well to be McIlrath.

    The math guys fear Zadarov too much because he doesn’t project a pile of offense.

    Skating and passing can make up for that.

  77. Woodguy says:

    Kris11,

    Ba chicka wa wa.

    I’ve never seen that written so clearly.

    I knew *exactly* the rhythm to read that in.

    Well done sir.

  78. Gerta Rauss says:

    Woodguy,

    7 posts in a row and I’m still waiting for you take on Brayden Coburn.

    Get on with it man…:)

  79. Woodguy says:

    Cameron,

    The Jones contract isn’t likely to ever be a problem for the Flames given it will likely run out before the Flames are looking to spend money as part of making a big playoff push.

    That’s so weak.

    “Its not bad trading for a guy who is awful and is under contract for 3 years because the Flames will be awful for the next 3 years”

    Congratulations on setting the bar so low that if it rained it would be muddy.

  80. BlacqueJacque says:

    Woodguy,

    I’m not seeing math to differentiate McIlrath from Zadarov. Almost identical stats. Is there something I’m missing?

  81. Woodguy says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    Woodguy,

    7 posts in a row and I’m still waiting for you take on Brayden Coburn.

    Get on with it man…:)

    I liked his 11/12 season. Good possession numbers against tough comp.

    This past season was meh, but the Flyers were a mess, so I guess you can discount it a bit.

    If you don’t give up much (and Potter and swapping 7th to 11th is almost nothing) they its a great addition in terms of value.

    I would hope the Oilers would add a better 1LD, but to get that, something good is going back the other way.

    If its the postulated trade, I’m thrilled.

    Let Smid and Petry fight the toughs and again and Coburn and J.Shultz would do well vs. 2nd comp.

    Belov is the wild card.

    I expect him to start 3LD, but he might be pretty good.

    Klef might be good too.

    Not a bad committee of D.

  82. Woodguy says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Woodguy,

    I’m not seeing math to differentiate McIlrath from Zadarov.Almost identical stats.Is there something I’m missing?

    Skating and passing.

  83. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Their draft year numbers are near identical:

    Mc: 2009-10 Stats: 65 GP, 7 G, 17 A, 24 PTS

    Zad: 6361925

    Both huge, mean buggers.

    Some picks only had:

    WHL 49gp 3g 19a 22pts

    But he was big and could skate and pass.

  84. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Their draft year numbers are near identical:

    Mc: 2009-10 Stats: 65 GP, 7 G, 17 A, 24 PTS

    Zad: 6361925

    Both huge, mean buggers.

    This draft pick couldn’t skate or pass well, but put up points:

    WHL 58gp 8g 30a 38pts

  85. Cameron says:

    Woodguy:
    Cameron,

    The Jones contract isn’t likely to ever be a problem for the Flames given it will likely run out before the Flames are looking to spend money as part of making a big playoff push.

    That’s so weak.

    “Its not bad trading for a guy who is awful and is under contract for 3 years because the Flames will beawful for the next 3 years”

    Congratulations on setting the bar so low that if it rained it would be muddy.

    I don’t think Oilers fans are in any position to be making hay over how low the bar has been set.

    Jones (and O’Brien) are upgrades over Tanguay and Sarich (who is all but finished as a player). Jones is overpaid, but useful. We got him for a guy who is older, equally over paid, and ultimately less useful. The Oilers should be so lucky to make such a trade.

  86. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy,

    I’m sensing you’ve been held hostage away from the computer for a while, huh?

    Feels good, right? To shoot the Oilers across the internet table.

    If Coburn comes, how does that impact Ranger?

    Must Guarantee NS is done at the very least.

  87. lance says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Woodguy,

    I’m not seeing math to differentiate McIlrath from Zadarov.Almost identical stats.Is there something I’m missing?

    The saw him good portion of the chart, which we have established, is probably off.

  88. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Cameron: I don’t think Oilers fans are in any position to be making hay over how low the bar has been set.

    Jones (and O’Brien) are upgrades over Tanguay and Sarich (who is all but finished as a player). Jones is overpaid, but useful. We got him for a guy who is older, equally over paid, and ultimately less useful. The Oilers should be so lucky to make such a trade.

    I don’t know man.

    Cullen gave a pretty objective take on the trade. He thinks the Flames got buzzed, but only in the slightest way. Seems like a pretty even trade of “here’s some random crap… you got any?”

    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/scott_cullen/?id=426494

  89. Gerta Rauss says:

    Woodguy,

    That’s kind of my take as well. He’s not a perfect fit by any means, but if we can get him for pennies on the dollar that’s a good move.

    imo we need a good/very good puck mover/5 tool defender in that 1LD spot and I’d like to see a stay at home type(Roman Polak) on the RH side to push Jultz to the 3rd pair. Easier said than done.

  90. bookje says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Rondo,

    Curtis Lazar apparently has “off-the-charts intangibles”.I would like to see how these intangibles are charted, exactly.

    They use really really tiny charts for intangibles – they are so small that they are difficult to perceive. Its as though they had no material form or measure. So, it’s pretty easy to be off the charts, all you need is for one of your intangibles to be nearing or very slightly tangible. The minute that happens – woooosh – off the charts!

  91. Cameron says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I don’t know man.

    Cullen gave a pretty objective take on the trade. He thinks the Flames got buzzed, but only in the slightest way. Seems like a pretty even trade of “here’s some random crap… you got any?”

    http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/scott_cullen/?id=426494

    Don’t get me wrong, Calgary did not just reverse engineer the Brett Hull to St Louis deal. What they did do was move out Tanguay (who did not want to be in Calgary) and a dead weight contract (Sarich) for two guys who will actually play for the team. For the stat nerds, both Jones and O’Brien are better possession players than Tanguay or Sarich. Which isn’t to say they are actually ‘good’, but definitely ‘less bad’.

  92. Dark Asia says:

    Love all the sand being kicked in poor old Tambo’s face here – some of you are such suckers for the 3rd rate PR the Oilers pump out. I told LT I’m out of here, and I very much am, but I just can’t resist one last kick at the can before I leave. Here is a little alternative history for you guys while you wait for your new savior to work his magic at the draft.

    Back in 09 when MacTavish left after missing the playoffs 5 out of the last 7 years it was a simply a matter of protecting Lowe’s position. But he was never going to be gone for long and Lowe would find some way to get him back into the fold. The Oilers are known around the league as one of the most nepotistic organizations. That’s not news. Lowe’s own skin is always his #1 concern. That’s not news either. What Lowe lack in brains though he makes up for with a ruthless sense of self-preservation. But like most guys operating over their head he surrounds himself lesser men. Lowe only goes outside when absolutely necessary and even then it’s short-term to save him from the chopping block after another losing season. MacTavish was banished after they brought in a guy who everyone in the league knows is an errand boy to be the fake GM. Got to make it seem like something is changing. Then after spending to the cap and finishing last it’s clear that all of them will be canned if they keep trying to win legitimately. So they throw several seasons. Call it a rebuild. Whatever. It’s really throwing games by not trying to improve. Making failure the goal gave them some time to collect assets that they couldn’t acquire through trade or UFA. Both those routes take skill and credibility which is pretty much absent in the Oilers front office. That takes us to last summer when enough time had passed to bring MacTavish back, as GM this time, but they obviously had to get rid of Tambellini first. Tambellini is actually a decent man but he’s nowhere near GM material and was never in charge of anything important at the NHL level. Lowe had final call on all pro-level major moves. The last thing you want to have is to have a too successful 12-13 season since that would make getting rid of Tambellini difficult. So they ditched another season on purpose to provide cover for Tambellini’s firing and the return of MacTavish. Gullible people say it was justified by Tambellini’s lack of action but he never had any real control over pro moves. Lowe and MacTavish were more than satisfied doing nothing on UFAs last summer and even said so publicly. Huge holes were left all over the roster and no attempts were made to fill gaps after the strike ended. No waiver pickups even when they were obvious, no trades to replace key injured players. No real movement at the trade deadline to support the team which was in a playoff race. They spent their time at the deadline trying to get a goalie even though that was the least of their worries and ended up just handing over a pick for Smithson who wasn’t worth anything and was in the hospital with his wife having a kid. You can’t make this stuff up and that trade was pure optics. But the trade deadline moves just crushed vets like Hemsky and Horcoff as winning was obviously secondary to Lowe stuffing management with his guys. Kruger was just another hired to be fired chump who was useful in attracting Shultz and keeping the coaching seat warm for a year. Smartest guy in the room which is also dangerous so he had to go. He got as much support as Tambellini did getting stuck with assistants who have almost no coaching ability. Ever wonder why MacTavish with all his experience was so hands off with a rookie coach in a strike shortened season and no training camp? Think about it. Eakin is just another placeholder who will be fired when necessary since he’s not an Oiler and they got another old Oiler on staff with Acton to make it look like there is new blood. Buckburger and Smith are still around which should surprise no one after MacTavish said he hoped the coach would keep them on. Like a rookie NHL coach would do anything other than what his new boss wants? He knows when to nod his head and will keep doing it until told otherwise. As for the future. MacTavish has his own history which is even less pretty than Lowe’s. But he’s smarter so it will be interesting to see how long the crocodile and scorpion can happily swim across the river together. They think they’ve got the future sewn up by getting all the high draft picks but that’s the easy part. Atlanta and the Islanders say hi. You have to develop the picks and surround them with quality pieces, but no vets with the character that the Oilers need are going to sign on with MacTavish and Lowe. So make up all the sunrise in Oilerville stories you want but reality in the Oilers organization is not pretty. Character vets stay away from Edmonton unless the dollars are too good turn down but it always ends up broken when they see how the club is managed. Enjoy the draft and watching a rookie GM get taken to the cleaners by foolishly putting all his cards on the table about vets he wants to trade. Quality prospects will be left on the shelf in order to draft character which is Oiler speak for guys that shine Kevin Lowe’s shoes. Feel sad for the fans but people keep on buying tickets in spite of ownership and management being rotten from the very beginning. Katz is another piece of work that I won’t bother talking about now but he’s just the next guy in a line that stretches back to Pocklington and Skalbania. We all know which bad boy room they ended up in. Believe any of this or not – makes no difference to me. Ignore it and just keep listening to the mainstream media who will tell you how great everything and how everyone associated with the Oilers is really fabulous. Peace out……

  93. wheatnoil says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    Woodguy,

    That’s kind of my take as well. He’s not a perfect fit by any means, but if we can get him for pennies on the dollar that’s a good move.

    Well something’s got to move in Philly. I mentioned this in a previous thread, but they’ve got 6 defense signed for next year for $3.5 Million or more (not including Pronger who is likely LTIR) and they haven’t signed Gustafsson yet. Something’s gotta give!

  94. justDOit says:

    The power of the return key can not be overstated.

  95. Gerta Rauss says:

    hi Dark Asia!!

  96. Chamucks says:

    Dark Asia,

    TL;DR

  97. hags9k says:

    Ahh Dark Asia, that reminds me of my first post here… I was dragged over the coals for a similar shunning of the return key… I realize fully now as my eyes ache what all the fuss was about.

    I can damn well appoint MacT savior if I want to. I’m a fan and that’s how I choose to play this one. So I reject your Lowe conspiracy paranoia and will not be joining you in your bunker to eat canned tuna and count your gold bars.

  98. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    justDOit:
    The power of the return key can not be overstated.

    He said up front he’s not RETURNing.

  99. Lowetide says:

    Asia’s cool. The Oilers are a difficult team to love.

  100. RexLibris says:

    Cameron,

    I’ve said in other forums that I don’t think Feaster got taken to the woodshed on the deal, but while some observers might argue this is a lateral move, or a minor rebuilding move, or even a bad trade, to me it just seems like fiddling while Rome burns.

    This was a largely inconsequential move that could have been made a month from now. Why was it done yesterday? Could Feaster have simply swapped O’Brien for Sarich and included a future considerations proviso to say that, if he can’t get a better offer for Tanguay by July 15th they do the other half of the deal then?

    As I’ve said elsewhere, for that money, Jones will need to be at least a 40pt winger, and while I know this argument would be anathema to many Flames fans, if the goal of the team is to rebuild then acquiring any player who inflates the performance of the team while providing no tangible long-term advantage to the organization is a poor strategic move.

    I’m not saying that the Flames need to intentionally try to be bad, but half-measures to make the team marginally better off than the worst teams in the league aren’t really steps in the right direction.

    I have always said that each team needs to find its own way to rebuild, and have argued that there are intelligent ways to doing so that don’t involve merely drafting 1st overall as many times as possible. However, I have yet to see evidence of that intelligence from any of the moves out of Flames management.

    This is the first summer they will spend explicitly rebuilding. Let’s see where things are October 15th and then re-assess.

    So, if it comes down to Lindholm or Monahan, which would you prefer to see wearing a gaudy red jersey? ;-)

  101. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    Asia’s cool. The Oilers are a difficult team to love.

    Robertson Davies once wrote that Canada was not so much a country one loves as a country one worries over.

    Since the early 90s and the late-Pocklington era I’ve pretty much felt the same about my Oilers.

  102. Woodguy says:

    Cameron,

    I don’t think Oilers fans are in any position to be making hay over how low the bar has been set.

    Yes we are.

    We’ve seen rock bottom.

    We can describe it in detail.

    We are experts.

    Jones (and O’Brien) are upgrades over Tanguay and Sarich (who is all but finished as a player).

    Please explain in detail why you have come to that conclusion.

    Jones is overpaid, but useful. We got him for a guy who is older, equally over paid, and ultimately less useful. The Oilers should be so lucky to make such a trade.

    I’ll end this with a copy of a tweet I read.

    I think its correct:

    jibble scribbits ‏@Jibblescribbits 27 Jun
    last 3 Seasons
    Tanguay: 183gp, 46g-99a-145p
    Jones: 182gp ,50g-41a-91p

    For comparison
    Lecavalier: 168gp, 57g-78a-135p

  103. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Woodguy,

    I’m sensing you’ve been held hostage away from the computer for a while, huh?

    Feels good, right? To shoot the Oilers across the internet table.

    If Coburn comes, how does that impact Ranger?

    Must Guarantee NS is done at the very least.

    So busy its ridiculous.

    I’d sign Ranger too as its only costs money.

    Let the cream rise to the top.

    Actually roster competition.

    Rare around here.

  104. Woodguy says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    Woodguy,

    That’s kind of my take as well. He’s not a perfect fit by any means, but if we can get him for pennies on the dollar that’s a good move.

    imo we need a good/very good puck mover/5 tool defender in that 1LD spot and I’d like to see a stay at home type(Roman Polak) on the RH side to push Jultz to the 3rd pair. Easier said than done.

    Yeah, 1LD might not get done this year.

    Doesn’t mean you don’t upgrade when the cost is minimal.

    Next year lots of good Dmen shake loose.

  105. hags9k says:

    Lowetide,

    Dark Asia has really just elaborated on and bought into some fears we all have deep down…I choose to ignore those thoughts in my head because it’s just no fun to think that way and because even if all that is true, there is F all I can do about it. The Dark Asia’s will call it sticking your head in the sand if they want but I’m on the MacSavior train.

  106. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy,

    I’m not sure Oilers fan are necessarily experts of rock bottom, if only because, on a relative scale, there have been worse nightmares around the league: Islanders.

    I’m basing this off more than just stats.

    That being said, if we weren’t rock bottom we were probably standing only slightly adjacent to it.

  107. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: Yeah, 1LD might not get done this year.

    Doesn’t mean you don’t upgrade when the cost is minimal.

    Next year lots of good Dmen shake loose.

    Agreed.

    A top pairing blueliner is nice, but if he isn’t available it is foolish to try and pay a 1D pricetag on a 4D player and then spend the summer trying to rationalize it after the fact.

  108. hags9k says:

    Hemsky, 7, and 2nd for Hartnell and 11?

  109. Captain Obvious says:

    Wait, there are people in the universe who don’t think Calgary made a terrible trade. That’s interesting.

    Here are some facts:

    Jones is not better than Tanguay.

    Even if he was, both contracts are bad and his is for an extra year and for more money.

    This was a first rate terrible trade by easily the worst GM in the league now that Tambellini and Gauthier are gone and Sherman is a figure head.

    The suckers are so easy to spot. Nonis has labelled himself one as well. He fixed a problem that didn’t exist and all it cost him was a good young player.

  110. Chris says:

    Well in fairness to the Flames if Feaster’s objective in this trade was to make his team marginally younger than he suceeded. Jones is 28 and O’Bryne is 29. Tanguay is 33 and Sarich is 34. Calgary is rebuilding. They say they are not rebuilding and are trying to make the playoffs but in truth they are sending all their vets out of town for picks. So this move seems consistent with that.

    Tanguay wasn’t going to be happy one way or the other. He wanted to play in Calgary but when he showed up they were at least a fringe playoff team. You have to imagine that the guys that showed up to play with Iginla aren’t exactly thrilled to see the team being torn down. So they swapped some guys who weren’t happy in Calgary for younger guys who needed a fresh start with a different team.

    On a talent basis it is likely a half step backwards but it makes sense from a personel management basis.

  111. MrEd says:

    Wow. After listening to Nurse and Monahan all day i”ll be surprised if they make it till 7. Nikushkin might be our guy this year and seriously, it might be a blessing. Out of the 4-8 range he’s the guy that i’d plug into the roster right now. With Sam as the C and Yak on the right side it just might work. Not to mention that the coaching staff as assembled has a work ethic that has to be contagious.

  112. khildahl says:

    Woodguy: I remember that play very clearly.

    I remember thinking, “ha! the kid schooled that guy…..whoaaaaaa, that’s pretty cool”

    93′s edge work in top 10 in the league.

    Not many like him.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WpLHjXu7Do

    Made him look like a turnstile.

  113. blackadder says:

    RexLibris,

    Let’s see. since 1992, Oilers have made the playoffs seven times. islanders have made the playoffs seven times. Islanders never picked first overall three years in a row. If we’re going to have a rock bottom contest with the Islanders, I think we dug quite a bit deeper than they did. And Mike Milbury was at least entertaining. We’ve been stuck in a banality of mediocrity situation that makes being an oiler fan for the past 20 years even more depressing.

  114. lance says:

    blackadder,

    Speaking cartographically It seems they were off the charts.

    To me its more of an overshot.

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