STANLEY AND ROBERT

I can’t tell you about Bobby Orr because you had to be there. I can’t really show you what Orr did to change the game, because you’d have to see it through the eyes of NHL hockey the way it was played 40+ years ago–not the view you have of today’s NHL. If you’re in your 20′s or 30′s your knowledge of Bobby Orr is limited to highlight packages and the history books. It is decidedly unsatisfactory for this Orr fan, because you missed out and those Orr videos are as useless as the Babe Ruth film shorts in actually capturing special players in their own time.

And you know what? I absolutely HATE telling people ‘you missed out’ because most of the time people say that it’s incorrect. The NHL game is miles and miles better now,  the goaltending and the shortened shifts and the conditioning and the size/speed of all the players have made it a better game. However, giving a young person an idea about Orr is impossible–the game he played will look slow and uninspired and the opposition he skated past look like stationary figures.

Bobby Orr could do things no other man could–change gears in a heartbeat and leave an entire 5-pack of opposition skaters in the dust; pass the puck tape to tape from a mile away and create offense out of absolutey nothing. In my mind’s eye, he remains frozen in time, above the ice after scoring that OT winner. Perfect.

“Bobby Orr… behind the net to Sanderson to OOOORR! BOBBY OOOORR! …scores and the Boston Bruins have won the Stanley Cup!”
Dan Kelly calling Orr’s Stanley Cup winning goal

Back in the olden days, Bruins-Hawks didn’t like each other much. Boston won 2 Stanley’s, Chicago none in the ’70s but the truth is that during the post-1967 expansion draft they were two of the strongest clubs in the game (along with Montreal and the Rangers). Both could have won at least one more Stanley during that era.

Now years later we’re looking at two teams attempting to win their second Stanley in just a few years. I think it’s an excellent reminder for Oiler fans: those 5 Stanley’s from long ago will one day welcome another. We wait.

THE LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE (10A-N on TEAM 1260)

ss sc

Scheduled to appear today:

  • Jeff Krushell from Krush Health. We’ll talk about fitness levels and how much of coaching is motivation.
  • JP Nikota from Pension Plan Puppets. We’ll talk Eakins and  ML summer.
  • James Mirtle has written some outstanding stuff on Eakins, we’ll also talk about Toronto’s reaction to Eakins exit.
  • Harrison Mooney will tell us about how much fun having Torts in Vancouver might be for everyone.

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71 Responses to "STANLEY AND ROBERT"

  1. russ99 says:

    This is the Bobby Orr Stanley Cup finals, he played for both teams.

    Though to my dad’s constant dismay, Orr was damaged goods when he signed with the Hawks.

  2. vesci says:

    I was born in 67 so most of what I really remember about Orr was from when he was already on the back nine. But Coffey was my favorite Oiler and I know without Orr there would not have been a Coffey. Amazing skater. And didn’t remember him being that tough!

  3. cdean says:

    The same can be said for the Gretsky era, if you werent there to see it, it is hard to describe. Al we see now are highlights and records. I dont remember too much of Orr but I remember sitting with the family cheering the Oilers Stanley Cup runs. Most memerable was the 90 run because I was older.

  4. slopitch says:

    Man could Orr skate. Watching those highlights, that’s the one thing that stands out for me. He’s at a different pace and his agility is off the charts. Its almost like he’s just playing with little kids in half those highlights. As much as we like to make fun of the stat, its too bad hockeydb doesn’t have his +/- stats. And its a damn shame he had to retire so young.

    Gonna be a great final. Looking forward to it. My old man grew up a hawks fan (pre-Oilers) and I saw a game this playoffs in Chicago vs Detroit. They are my temporary team till the draft. Always had a soft spot for Chicago teams. The 1990′s Bulls especially. For the Oilers and for hockey in general its better if a skill team like Chicago wins. Although Boston is much more offensive then LA is so maybe I’m not giving them enough credit. Truthfully Boston is the right mix of grit and skill. If it comes down to goaltending, Boston wins but the Hawks D is so good at moving the puck. It seems that both teams had a turning point in their playoff this year. Boston, when they were down to Toronto and Chicago when down 3-1 to Detroit. Both have look unstoppable since. I can’t pick a winner but I’ll be routing for the Hawks.

    edit: wikipedia has Orrs +/- stats

  5. tcho says:

    I was born in 70, and missed Orr’s career, sadly. I agree that it’s hard to “get it” from just watching video highlights (although readjusting your expectations, and focusing on the human pylons otherwise known as the best hockey players in the world at the time before shifting your attention back to Orr certainly helps). I think the stats were the thing that really brought home how special he was for me. I remember looking it up while trapped in a work camp in Fort Mac and seeing that Orr had more than doubled the single season point total of any dman who had come before him in NHL history. That woke me up, and was certainly more impressive than Gretzky’s totals vis-a-vis NHL forwards historically.

    I really was hoping for a Pittsburgh-Chicago final… so it’s pretty clear who I’m rooting for.

  6. regwald says:

    I was born in ’68 and the only memories I have of Orr is the ’76 Canada Cup and then seeing footage of his last game in Chicago when he to hang up the blades. Watching those highlights was a great way to start the day.

  7. Young Oil says:

    LT,

    I really appreciate these posts, being born in the mid 90s caused me to miss out on so many incredible players, and all of the Oiler Stanley Cups, and posts like these really make me jealous of missing out on all of this, but allow me to experience them in a way, which I appreciate.

    I suppose I have lived through a few well known hockey memories, namely the 2006 cup run, and 2 Olympic gold medals, but none of these have really stuck with me. I was too young to appreciate the 2002 gold, the only thing that has stuck with me from 2006 was the disappointment of losing the 7th game, and the 2010 gold was somewhat bittersweet, as I wanted anyone on that team to score except Crosby. I guess it made the best storyline, but he was having a terrible tournament up to then, and in a way he got all the credit for the gold, and it took away from the rest of the team’s effort.

    I have only really had two memories that have stuck with me, and every single time I see the highlight I instantly can relive seeing it live: Eberle’s heroics and clutch moments in the WJC, and his first NHL goal. I know these moments probably don’t even compare to Orr’s goal, or Henderson’s goal in 72, or all of the Oiler Stanley Cups in the 80s, but as of now, they are all I have. Hopefully I will be able to add the memory of Jordan Eberle hoisting the Stanley Cup above his head sometime soon.

  8. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Sorry to be a downer, but someone has to mention it….

    Creed. Easily one of the worst bands ever conceived… approaching Eagles and Kiss heights of crap for the silly, silly men who imbibe it to extreme excess.

    (obviously, not LT’s fault someone ruined Orr’s majesty with that garbage).

    ————-

    Like many here, my experience of Orr is listening to my dad talk about him with great reverence.

    Conversations c. 1990 between me and him would often go like this:

    (we are watching HNIC together, I’m 10, he’s 40)

    me: did you see that!?
    dad: ahh… (in a dismissive tone)
    me: what?
    dad: ohh (suddenly he pivots emotionally, some memory has encouraged his spirit) did you ever see Bobby Orr?
    me: what?
    dad: Orr. ohh. did you ever see him? wonderful skater.
    me: who does he play for?
    dad: the bruins. great skater. ahh (dismissive again), these new guys.
    me: Cam Neely? do you mean Neely?
    dad: nah… Orr!
    me: Bourque? (that was the extent of my knowledge of the Bruin lineup at 10)
    dad: ohh… good players. But Orr was the best. changed the game. wonderful skater.
    me: … …
    dad: did you ever see him?

    we had (and still have) lots of conversations like this on all topics (mostly hockey and old movies/actors). My dad is the kind of absentminded guy that seems to completely ignore the progression of time. If he saw it, he figures you must have seen it and probably had the same feeling about it as he had.

    we’d go round and round like this until I finally figured out he was talking about some old guy. Then I’d say something like: “Messier’s the best ever” or “black and white sucks” and we’d argue about that for a while.

    good times.

  9. Clay says:

    Man, I hope this final lives up to the billing. I was plenty pumped up for the Boston v Pittsburg series, and, well, y’all know what happened.

    But this final could be a real classic.

    ” I think it’s an excellent reminder for Oiler fans: those 5 Stanley’s from long ago will one day welcome another. We wait.”

    This statement is true, but I hope it happens in our lifetime!

  10. sliderule says:

    Orr played in an era that had a lot of real slow and poor skaters on teams.The Esposito brothers are an example.but there were even worse.
    In today’s game it’s hard to see many poor skaters and they are all super fit.
    Defencemen who liked to rush the puck like Orr and Coffey would have had to change their game against good skaters playing the trap.

  11. Wolfie says:

    Even though I never got to see Orr play, I did live the Gretzky days. I’m guessing it was a similar scenario. Nobody in the game was at Gretzky’s level. Not even close. When he decided to impose his will there was no denying the Great One.

    The argument over who was better is irrelevant. Both were visionaries, pioneers and way ahead of their time. What makes it even more impressive is how the greats of today are generally unable to separate themselves from the pack. Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos etc… are all great players but none of them are miles ahead of the competition.

  12. regwald says:

    sliderule:
    Orr played in an erathat had a lot of real slow and poor skaters on teams.The Esposito brothers are an example.but there were even worse.
    In today’s game it’s hard to see many poor skaters and they are all super fit.
    Defencemen who liked to rush the puck like Orr and Coffey would have had to change their game against good skaters playing the trap.

    Sliderule, did you ever try to skate on those tube skates from back in the day ?

    What Orr did on those skates was incredible. He was miles ahead of his generation. That’s the point.

  13. Bushed says:

    I was 6 when Orr started with the Bruins, and I had just started playing hockey in a kid’s league, so I saw him well, many times.

    Those who didn’t see Orr and dismiss him because the game was slower etc. truly do not “get it” as LT says. Gretzky was never the fastest skater either, but somehow no one could figure out where he was going next, or what he would do, because he saw the play differently than anyone else on the ice. Orr was like that, too, and could create opportunity where most would just chip and chase (like today’s players) when threatened by a checker.

    Orr played against guys with speed, but straight-line speed doesn’t mean much by itself today, either. It was the combination of positioning, protecting the puck, carrying it with one hand on the stick, acceleration, balance, strength, and vision that was unmatched. Players of the day knew what Orr could do, and had seen it many times, but they usually could not stop it.

    To get a rough idea of how much better Orr was, go find video of some defensive stars like Serge Savard or JC Tremblay or whoever, and then compare to Orr. It’s unreal how much better Orr was.
    Brad Park was another fine d-man, but had the bad luck to be overshadowed by Orr his whole career.

    Unfortunately, many younger fans only know about Orr as the guy Don Cherry rants about, which likely detracts from the legend.

    Guys I “didn’t get” because I was too young (and it bugged me for years that “old guys” would keep bringing it up) included Gordie Howe in his prime, and Rocket Richard.

    PS What I “don’t get” these days about the NHL is why they’ve never considered releasing old playoff series or even regular season classic games on DVD, going as far back as possible. I’d buy tons of these, and I’m sure many others would, too. Lowetide, can you use your fame and media profile to make it happen?

  14. theres oil in virginia says:

    I think Alexander the Great is overrated. I mean, who marches into battle?

  15. Jordan says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    I think Alexander the Great is overrated.I mean, who marches into battle?

    Absolutely overrated. Though, not for the marching. Just because he’s Greek, and the Romans were ridiculously obsessed with anyone greek who said or did anything. Ever.

    Seriously. The persians, the egyptians, they all had way bigger, more sustained empires than Big Al’s 10 year conquest of the middle east. He’s an over-hyped general.

    Now Temujin… there’s a real leader. Also – never marched into battle. Always arrived with the best horse in the army.

    Besides – anyone who can engage in a battle and kill as many of the enemy while running away as they could while actually engaging is a pretty bad ass tactician.

    Does anyone know much about cloning? If Eakins doesn’t work out as head coach, maybe we could just Clone Temujin and have him be the Oilers’ tactical hockey coach…

    Edit: You know… why not clone Orr too? I mean… we still need that #1 D… and maybe then we could all see what Old man Mitchell is on about with his old-timey hockey references…

  16. BlacqueJacque says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I don’t think anyone touches KISS when it comes to terrible, willingly fabricated schlock rock. The worst part is watching Gene Simmons sue people who download the music as if:

    1. There are all that many internet generation kids downloading Kiss.
    2. Kiss didn’t steal or attempt to steal every part of their act from one band or another (whether Alice Cooper’s makeup or ripping off every style from rock to glam rock to their disco phase).

  17. BlacqueJacque says:

    Jordan,

    Alexander rode with his cavalry, didn’t he? The failure of his empire has nothing to do with his skills as a general. Of course, his skills as a general mean nothing because it’s really the fact that the Persians had no way to counter hoplites and cavalry. Their lightly armed and armored armies couldn’t sustain a melee.

  18. GTL says:

    #4 was my hero… My best Christmas gift as a kid was a curved victoriaville stick that I tape like bobby.
    I had dozens of Orr hockey cards and two complete sets of the stanley cup winners…. (gave them all away bout two days after discovering ” heavy petting”)….a true gentleman and hero for my generation,

  19. Bag of Pucks says:

    Awesome LT. Bobby Orr was my first hockey hero. Had the hockey cards, poster on the wall, drew a #4 in magic marker on the D man on my table hockey game, etc.

    Like Regwald, was not old enough to watch him in his prime, but was a huge fan by the time the 76 Canada Cup came along and loved his gutty performance in that tourney. In fact, that tournament was a bit of the passing of the torch for me as Sittler came on my radar screen then and Bobby’s rapid descent soon after seemed to parallel Sittler’s ascent with his 10 point night following that season. Those Leafs teams of the lates 70s with Sittler, McDonald, Palmateer, Turnbull, Salming, etc. were a lot of fun to watch.

    One of the things I really remember about Orr and it doesn’t seem to get mentioned a lot is he was an absolute horse. The guy was the original minutes muncher and he was HARD on the puck in his own end. So much emphasis on his memorable rushes that we forgot what an intelligent and effective defenseman he was in his own end. He was quite literally a hybrid of Potvin & Coffey and that’s impressive stuff indeed.

    Looking forward to a very entertaining final. Heart is with the Hawks a bit. Captain Serious, Hossa, Keith, they have a lot of gems on that team. But it’s been a tough year for Boston so I’m going for the Bs on the basis of that and do like Bergeron, Krejci and Boychuk. Seeing greybeard Jagr hoist the Cup again would be fun too.

    Funny how much of life is determined by luck and circumstance. Here sits Seguin on the cusp of a 2nd ring and I think we’re nearly unanimous on this board that Hall remains the better choice. Being in the right place at the right time. If only that was a skill we could all master.

  20. theres oil in virginia says:

    Jordan,
    Ha. That’s good.

    Jordan:
    Does anyone know much about cloning? If Eakins doesn’t work out as head coach, maybe we could just Clone Temujin and have him be the Oilers’ tactical hockey coach…

    Replacement for Bucky?

  21. VOR says:

    One of my favorite hockey moments didn’t happen in an arena or even in a game. It happened while I was watching the news on TV. It was November 2nd, 1978. The news played a very brief clip of three young men on an escalator. Two of them have “ho hum, another day” at the office looks on their faces. The other young man has the oddest look on his face. It is hard to describe. But somehow it said “I came, I saw, I conquered” loud and clear.

    I would never again be so happy to have Oilers tickets as I was that day.

    Sadly those moments are not reproducible and you do have to be there. After yesterday’s last thread I realized what I would like for the new generation of Oilers fans is a moment like that. A moment that they can talk about years later and say “there, see that look, that is when I knew, hockey would never be the same again.” The special thing about players like Orr and Gretzky is they give a generation of fans that once in a lifetime moment.

  22. theres oil in virginia says:

    Jordan,

    Also, it occurred to me recently, I recall that American (high school and undergraduate) history classes are filled with pro-Greek bias, as well as the corollary anti-Persian bias. (The Greeks were always framed as the good guys fighting off the hordes of barbaric – generically speaking – invaders.) I realize that’s not the only bias found in America’s history classes, but those others are even more irrelevant to this thread, and much hotter topics of debate (ahem, 1812, ahem).

  23. rickithebear says:

    BlacqueJacque: 2. Kiss didn’t steal or attempt to steal every part of their act from one band or another (whether Alice Cooper’s makeup or ripping off every style from rock to glam rock to their disco phase).

    Art is an allegorical release that elicits emotion from the Audience.
    Phsycologists are mapping brain function from, reading, Art, music.
    It is believed they may soon be able to quantify emotion and label the brain.

    It is lovely you do not like KISS.
    Wonder how your brain maps out versus the KISS fan.
    Serial Killer; Lover; Just nice Guy.

  24. rickithebear says:

    Having Watched the Flin Flon Bombers:
    Bobby Orr did not elicite the same emotion as Clarke, Leach, Stoughton.
    The full Package:
    Speed, Scoring, Violence.
    It was not untill my late 20′s i grew to appreciate the dominance of ORR one of the 10 best.

  25. dessert1111 says:

    JP Nikota on LT’s show mentioned the Leafs need more stability on the back end, which I was a tad surprised to hear as their #1 need…to extend this Jake Gardiner (fan-created) speculation, maybe #7OV, N Schultz and a middling prospect for Gardiner and #21OV?

  26. Captain Happy says:

    James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 6m

    Flyers acquire Streit from the Isles.

  27. Beaker says:

    There goes Streit to the Flyers…. 4th RD pick in 2014 for his rights (apparently plus a shane harper)

  28. Bar_Qu says:

    Beaker,

    Smart move from Philly. They need to have an overpaid aging defender now that Pronger is likely done.

  29. regwald says:

    From McKenzie on twitter. Philly acquires Streit for a 4th round pick.

  30. Gerta Rauss says:

    That’s good for Philly-after they sign him to a 4 year deal north of $5M, Oilers fans can be grateful someone else gave him that contract.

  31. Tarkus says:

    When it comes to being proactive in signing soon-to-be UFA D-men, looks like Philly is Streits ahead.

  32. TheOtherJohn says:

    rickithebear:
    Having Watched the Flin Flon Bombers:
    Bobby Orr did not elicite the same emotion as Clarke, Leach, Stoughton.
    The full Package:
    Speed, Scoring, Violence.
    It was not untill my late 20′s i grew to appreciate the dominance of ORR one of the 10 best.

    Ricki

    You know Stoughton never played with Clarke. Right? Like ever

    You must have a SUPERLATIVE pantheon if Orr only made it into your top 10

  33. regwald says:

    Philly has become what the Rangers were for years …. spend, spend, spend and then try to hide your spending mistakes. I wonder how happy the Flyers fans are with the Carter and Richards cup last year and the long run again this year ?

    Now they will try to buy out Briere and Bryzgalov ? Wow, they are throwing away so much $$$.

  34. theres oil in virginia says:

    dessert1111:
    JP Nikota on LT’s show mentioned the Leafs need more stability on the back end, which I was a tad surprised to hear as their #1 need…to extend this Jake Gardiner (fan-created) speculation, maybe #7OV, N Schultz and a middling prospect for Gardiner and #21OV?

    Yeah, that one was floated recently, but I think we figured that it would be a really sweet deal for the Oilers and therefore not likely to happen. I think someone floated the 7th OV + Horcoff + Marincin for Gardiner + ???, which drew much more mixed reactions and probably figures to be closer to what it would take to get Gardiner out of TO. (Whether one wants him or not is another matter.)

    This also brings up the question that nobody seems to have an answer for: Who are the Oilers top pairing? Smid-Petry? Is that good enough?

  35. Captain Happy says:

    theres oil in virginia: Yeah, that one was floated recently, but I think we figured that it would be a really sweet deal for the Oilers and therefore not likely to happen.I think someone floated the 7th OV + Horcoff + Marincin for Gardiner + ???, which drew much more mixed reactions and probably figures to be closer to what it would take to get Gardiner out of TO.(Whether one wants him or not is another matter.)

    This also brings up the question that nobody seems to have an answer for: Who are the Oilers top pairing?Smid-Petry?Is that good enough?

    As MacT would say…if you have to ask, you know the answer.

  36. Bag of Pucks says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I don’t think anyone touches KISS when it comes to terrible, willingly fabricated schlock rock.The worst part is watching Gene Simmons sue people who download the music as if:

    1.There are all that many internet generation kids downloading Kiss.
    2.Kiss didn’t steal or attempt to steal every part of their act from one band or another (whether Alice Cooper’s makeup or ripping off every style from rock to glam rock to their disco phase).

    And yet they inspired hundreds if not thousands of young guys to pick up guitars and start bands.

    Funny how often the less talented bands musically speaking (KISS, Sex Pistols, Nirvana, Green Day) become some of the most influential. I think it’s a case of making that dream seem more achievable to nascent musicians.

    I’ll always have a soft spot in my heart for KISS because they were absolutely massive when I was at an impressionable age and they brought elements to rock n roll (theatricality, stage production) that really made the whole thing seem larger than life. Of course, a couple years go by and we realized how rudimentary they were compared to the likes of the Who, Zeppelin, Floyd, etc. But for a brief time, they truly were ‘the hottest band in the land.”

  37. TheOtherJohn says:

    Jordan

    But what a marvelous 10 year run the Macedonian’s had. No question that Mongols created broadest, more sustained empire but if we are talikng 10 year runs, Alexander is right near the top of any such list.

    And if Ogedai had not died, and Subotai returned to Asia we might all be speaking a different language

  38. spoiler says:

    I don’t see how Streit was ever coming here after the Skyp-firing of his buddy Krueger.

    Streit will want low travel, high pay, term, and an established shot at a Cup. Not gonna happen in Oily silks.

  39. Bag of Pucks says:

    TheOtherJohn:

    But what a marvelous 10 year run the Macedonian’s had. Noquestion that Mongols created broadest, more sustained empire but if we are talkng 10 year runs, Alexander is right near the top of any such list.

    Mongols vs Bowman’s Habs. Mongol horde in 7?

  40. spoiler says:

    Alexander the Great was a brilliant general (and lets not forget he had Ptolemy by his side too), but the burning of the national library of Parsus was a war crime equivalent to the Holocaust, IMHO.

  41. Doug McLachlan says:

    Ok we dodged the Streit bullet – thank you Philly – but we still need two top pairing d.

    Assuming that Belov and Klefbom are not the solution, where is the help coming from?

    Now I am a big Gonchar fan but am still confused by the Dallas signing, would Goligoski be available? Desirable? Has the Yandle option closed as far as this blog is concerned? I know I am supposed to be more enamored of Tyutin than I am but is he the best option out there?

  42. TheOtherJohn says:

    spoiler:
    Alexander the Great was a brilliant general (and lets not forget he had Ptolemy by his side too), but the burning of the national library of Parsus was a war crime equivalent to the Holocaust, IMHO.

    Any worse that inflicting Tambi, Quinn, Renney, Kruger and Top 3 D man Cam Barker on the fine folks of Edmonton

  43. TheOtherJohn says:

    Bag of Pucks: Mongols vs Bowman’s Habs. Mongol horde in 7?

    Mongols in 3

  44. spoiler says:

    TheOtherJohn: Any worse that inflicting Tambi, Quinn, Renney, Kruger and Top 3 D man Cam Barker on the fine folks of Edmonton

    Well, I’m hoping the fallout from those choices doesn’t last two millenia.

    I know, I know… that’s a faint hope at best.

  45. Bag of Pucks says:

    TheOtherJohn: Mongols in 3

    I think you’re overrating the Mongol’s PK

  46. Tarkus says:

    TheOtherJohn: Mongols in 3

    And Genghis wins the Khan Smythe.

  47. spoiler says:

    Tarkus:
    When it comes to being proactive in signing soon-to-be UFA D-men, looks like Philly is Streits ahead.

    Nice to see you posting here, Tarkus!

  48. theres oil in virginia says:

    Tarkus: And Genghis wins the Khan Smythe,

    That’s just awful. Yes, I’m laughing, but it’s still awful.

  49. fifthcartel says:

    I figured with Krueger gone the Streit dream was gone. I’m interested to see which Maple Leafs/Marlies we might acquire.

  50. TheOtherJohn says:

    Bag of Pucks: I think you’re overrating the Mongol’s PK

    “All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposes with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated”

    Don’t think he’d be worried about the Bruins physicality

  51. B S says:

    Too young to see Orr play, or the Glory years in Edmonton, but when I was ~10 years old I had the privilege (honour?) of meeting some old guy by the name of Maurice Richard signing autographs (my dad heard his name over the PA and practically carried me over to him). When we mad eye contact it was like he could see everything, like he was looking right through me. It was an intense look that I’ve only seen from a handful of people (actually, Rick Hansen is the only one that comes immediately to mind). I’ve never met Orr or Gretzky, but I would imagine they have the same look in their eye.

  52. theres oil in virginia says:

    TheOtherJohn: “All who surrender will be spared; whoever does not surrender but opposes with struggle and dissension, shall be annihilated”

    Don’t think he’d be worried about the Bruins physicality

    Ah, so that’s it. The Habs, or what’s left of them, surrender after 3.

  53. spoiler says:

    OT, but for those interested in the Snowden story, State vs the Individual, Liberty vs Security, Constitutional law and that sort of thing… Dellow has written a very solid piece on the matter:

    http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6155

  54. Cactus says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    Ok we dodged the Streit bullet – thank you Philly – but we still need two top pairing d.

    Assuming that Belov and Klefbom are not the solution, where is the help coming from?

    Now I am a big Gonchar fan but am still confused by the Dallas signing, would Goligoski be available?Desirable?Has the Yandle option closed as far as this blog is concerned?I know I am supposed to be more enamored of Tyutin than I am but is he the best option out there?

    Exactly. Both Gonchar and Streit were looking like massive, overpaid risks. Streit’s underlying numbers are reasonably good recently, but $5M plus for a 36 year old defenceman was playing with fire, especially on a multi-year deal. The Oilers don’t need success in 2014-15 derailed because they’re carrying an albatross contract.

    Trade was and remains the best option. Hopefully MacT has some good ideas.

  55. Lois Lowe says:

    Tarkus:
    When it comes to being proactive in signing soon-to-be UFA D-men, looks like Philly is Streits ahead.

    +1 for the Community reference.

  56. Gerta Rauss says:

    fifthcartel:
    I figured with Krueger gone the Streit dream was gone. I’m interested to see which Maple Leafs/Marlies we might acquire.

    For me, the Streit dream died just before the trade deadline. We heard rumblings that he wouldn’t sign a Lubo equivalent deal(2 years x $4M ish) and that was it for me…no way should we be giving (long) term to a 36 year old.

    ===================

    Assuming that Belov and Klefbom are not the solution, where is the help coming from?

    I like the offer sheet route for that top pairing target, but I’m not certain we should put all our eggs in that basket-if the offer sheets aren’t successful we’re left with a smoking hole in the ground and nobody to play D.

    I’ve lowered my expectations for the D-1 right handed player from the Smid tree(stay at home,tough as nails) that will push Junior to the 3rd pair, and a left handed puck mover/multi tool type defender. Both these players will come via trade and/or scraping the buyout barrel after the dust settles. We need a couple of established, serviceable D, on 1 or 2 year deals.

    We’ve got to hope that our top pairing stud comes from the prospects,(Klefbom,Gernat,Marincin) and that (hopefully) is 2-3 years away.

  57. spoiler says:

    Does the Streit trade throw cold water on any possible deal between the Flyers and the Oilers?

    I’m not convinced the rumblings of talks between the two teams were all that serious… seeing as both teams are/were in Quest for D mode. Doesn’t seem like good match to me.

  58. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler,
    That’s a great piece. Regarding the question of legal = right:

    WILLIAM KUNSTLER: And that’s the terrible myth of organized society, that everything that’s done through the established system is legal, and that word has a powerful psychological impact. It makes people believe that there is an order to life and an order to a system and that a person that goes through this order and is convicted has gotten all that is due him, and therefore society can turn its conscience off and look to other things and other times. And that’s the terrible thing about these past trials, is that they have this aura of legitimacy, this aura of legality. I suspect that better men than the world has known, and more of them, have gone to their deaths through a legal system than through all of the illegalities in the history of man.

    I have a lot of respect for that man (now deceased). It always strikes me as funny that he was probably as opposite of me as an American can be (he was Jewish and born in NYC, I’m a southern white-boy who’s never lived outside of Virginia for more than a month or two), but there’s not many more men in the world that I respect more than him.

  59. TheOtherJohn says:

    theres oil in virginia: Ah, so that’s it.The Habs, or what’s left of them, surrender after 3.

    there is a quote from one of his great grandson’s: he rode a grey horse so as to better display the blood of his enemies in close conflict

    May not get to 3

  60. Wolfpack says:

    I was born in ’72 so I did not get to see the Orr years. But the fact that so many knowledgable hockey people place him above Gretzky on the list of hockey’s greatest players tells me all I need to know.

    B S
    About 15 years ago I was living in Kamloops and met a bunch of retired players after an old-timers charity game. The one guy I could not bring myself to shake hands with was The Rocket. I was just too intimidated. Even at that age he was still an intimidating presence, sitting back in his chair and lording over his minions. I was afraid he would turn his steely gaze on me and I would wet myself in fear.

    Picture the very end of Conan the Barbarian, where the camera slowly zooms in on Arnold, sitting on his throne, crown on his head, as the voice-over ends the movie.

  61. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    Mongols only let you surrender before game 1. There is no game 3. Only chance with the Mongols was them shutting down before the Cup run to pick a new coach. See European Cup, 1242.

  62. Jordan says:

    TheOtherJohn: there is a quote from one of his great grandson’s: he rode a grey horse so as to better display the blood of his enemies in close conflict

    May not get to 3

    theres oil in virginia: Ah, so that’s it.The Habs, or what’s left of them, surrender after 3.

    They are both Canadian and French – they will do much better than anyone expects them to (and probably have a right to), just like good Canadians. And then they will fall apart and surrender, just like good Frenchmen.

    Isn’t multiculturalism wonderful? =D

  63. Bag of Pucks says:

    Tornado warning and/even watch alerts popping up all over the place. Batten down the hatches time in eTown.

  64. Нинтендо⁶⁴ says:

    Нинтендо⁶⁴,

    no game 2 either.

    Winston Churchill: “Providentially in this year the Great Khan died in Mongolia; the Mongol leaders hastened back the thousands of miles to Karakorum, their capital, to elect his successor, and Western Europe escaped”

  65. spoiler says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    spoiler,

    I have a lot of respect for that man (now deceased).It always strikes me as funny that he was probably as opposite of me as an American can be (he was Jewish and born in NYC, I’m a southern white-boy who’s never lived outside of Virginia for more than a month or two), but there’s not many more men in the world that I respect more than him.

    I suspect “Give me liberty or give me death” still resonates deep within many Virginians… and that’s a very good thing.

  66. CrazyCoach says:

    If Joe McGrath was around, he’d be telling both teams to go out there and really put on a good show!

  67. Woodguy says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    That’s good for Philly-after they sign him to a 4 year deal north of $5M, Oilers fans can be grateful someone else gave him that contract.

    I’m a Streit fan and I agree with you.

  68. B S says:

    Wolfpack:
    I was born in ’72 so I did not get to see the Orr years. But the fact that so many knowledgable hockey people place him above Gretzky on the list of hockey’s greatest players tells me all I need to know.

    B S
    About 15 years ago I was living in Kamloops and met a bunch of retired players after an old-timers charity game. The one guy I could not bring myself to shake hands with was The Rocket. I was just too intimidated. Even at that age he was still an intimidating presence, sitting back in his chair and lording over his minions. I was afraid he would turn his steely gaze on me and I would wet myself in fear.

    Picture the very end of Conan the Barbarian, where the camera slowly zooms in on Arnold, sitting on his throne, crown on his head, as the voice-over ends the movie.

    Regarding your first point, don’t take their opinion as sacrosanct, I’ve had old people tell me that Rocket Richard was the best to ever play and Howe and Gretzky were pale imitations, or that Sawchuck was the greatest goaltender ever (personally I believe them on that one, but…) each generation has their heroes that they place on the pedestal, it is the duty of the next generation to find their own replacement. Unless we’re willing to compare stats between eras the only option is hearsay and anecdotes, which are well and fine (and can be a lot of fun), but I don’t believe in basing my opinion purely on what others say. I usually try to watch archived footage of their games (complete games as much as possible) if I can.

    To your second point, The Rocket never smiled to anyone in the line (he would shake hands and greet them, even thank them for praise, but that smile was his alone), but he made clear eye contact, almost like he was staring them down, I can believe the stories of him scaring off goaltenders with just a look, it was like he was going to take your lunch and eat it in front of you if you didn’t pay him his due. He also had a hell of a handshake. I’ve always tried to imitate that handshake.

  69. Reg Dunlop says:

    Of course it was a different time and game but #4 was SO important to my generation. Tragically Hip had it wrong, nothing loosened my grip on Bobby Orr. I was in about grade 4 when a book named ‘Orr On Ice’ became available in our school library. It was always out. All year. Kids that otherwise would never see the inside of the library. Everyone on my pee-wee hockey team laced up the old butterknife skates with bare feet inside like Bobby, even though we practiced and played most games outside. Although as a young man I shared season tickets at the Colliseum until ’84 and saw Gretz in his prime, nothing evokes the passion for the game like seeing a Boston #4 jersey. Like Roy Hobbs, the best that ever was.

  70. art vandelay says:

    Orr played in an era that had a lot of real slow and poor skaters on teams.The Esposito brothers are an example.but there were even worse.
    In today’s game it’s hard to see many poor skaters and they are all super fit.
    Defencemen who liked to rush the puck like Orr and Coffey would have had to change their game against good skaters playing the trap.

    Spare us, kid.
    They skated on tubes skates made out of cardboard. Their medical care was Dr. Nick Riviera. Their off-season training was beer and smokes. Shifts were 3 minutes long. And the gear gained weight from the sweat.
    Today's juice monkeys train 12 months a year so that most hockey games are glorified roller derby on ice, trying to shoot over a goalie that goes into a butterfly at the opening faceoff.
    Once in a while, like in Game 1, we get a fine example of hockey the way it was meant to be played, but more often than not, it's just a faster version of our favorite game, but "fast" =/= "better" unless you're talking the internet.

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