BELOV AND THE BLUE

It’s easy to forget Anton Belov (photo) is expected to make the Edmonton Oilers. His resume is strong, he’s certainly coming with expectations of him at a high level (Belov’s Oiler contract is for one season, his cap hit is $1.525M) and the club doesn’t hand out $600,000 signing bonuses for guys who they cut later that year.

chesnokov

  • Belov: “I am very happy I ended up with the Oilers. Of all of the clubs the Oilers showed the most interest. First of all, I think, it’s because the team needs a defenseman of the type I am… I heard that the Oilers GM Craig MacTavish came to the World Championships and watched me play. I like the fact that the team in Edmonton is turning out to be very promising. There are young stars, especially on offense, so the club has a big future.”

Belov is a puck moving defender with size and his most recent season suggests that he’s a quality puck mover who may be able to play with the Oilers high end skill guys on the powerplay.

belov player card

Belov has a very interesting player card: 22 minutes a night in both regular season and playoffs, 4 goals at equal strength and 4 more on the PP plus a shorthanded goal–so it appears he has a nice range of skills. Belov is a lefty shooter so among Oiler defenseman would have a rather clear path to the PP (the current powerplay options are Justin Schultz and Jeff Petry, both RH shots) and that’s one major item in his favor in a battle for the roster.

HOW GOOD IS HE?

The truth is we won’t know until the fall or later. Jan Hejda came over years ago and MacT never did recognize his skill level and Hejda ended up following Scott Howson to Columbus and carving out an NHL career. It’s completely possible we’ll see the same thing here–Belov has a one year deal and then he’s a free agent, so the marriage is more ‘weekend in Vegas’ than Ozzie and Harriet.

The verbal from those who have seen him is encouraging.

  • Dmitry Chesnokov: “If I have to describe him in one sentence, I’d say that the past season, and considering it was a lockout season so there were a lot of NHL players in the KHL, he was probably, unofficially the best defenceman in the KHL. This is the best way to describe him. He was one of the brighter spots on the Russian national team at the World Championships. Everybody knows the … performance that team had, but he was one of the players who stood out. The amount of improvement he has shown the past few years along with his e maturity, I think Edmonton has got a great, great player.

Belov is 27, 6.04, 215 and will have to adjust to the smaller ice. He is extremely likely to be on the third pairing this season (LH’s who are ahead of him currently are Ladislav Smid, Andrew Ference and Nick Schultz, with Oscar Klefbom rising). Still, the plan is certainly to have him on the club.

  • Craig MacTavish: “I expect him to make the team. We’re planning on starting the season with him with us next season.”

The best scouting report I’ve seen on Belov also comes from the GM.

  • Craig MacTavish: “It’s a move to trying to build more mobility into our back end. He moves the puck well. He makes quick decisions with the puck. He has a high skill level and competes hard. The expectation is that he’s going to come in and help us. He’s big. He plays heavy. He’s got some toughness.”

I think it’s time to discuss the possibility of a trade before training camp. The Oilers have too many blue in the 5-7 range:

  1. Justin Schultz $3.775M
  2. Ladislav Smid $3.5M
  3. Nick Schultz $3.5M
  4. Andrew Ference $3.25M
  5. Jeff Petry $1.75M
  6. Anton Belov $1.525M
  7. Oscar Klefbom $1.224M
  8. Philip Larsen $1.025M
  9. Corey Potter $775,000

The only players with a minor league salary under $500,000 in that group? Klefbom and Belov, both $70,000. At this point I’d say Belov is a lock for this team, with Klefbom and Corey Potter the probable final cuts. I also believe the Oilers may not be done here, Nick Schultz at $3.5M for the third pairing is a little dear. And of course there’s still the possibility they land Braydon Coburn or similar in an effort to improve the top pairing.

THE STARTING 7 (AN ESTIMATE)

  1. Smid-Petry: A history of success, in the last full NHL season they were taking on the toughs and succeeding. Both defenders looked off in 12-13 and one would hope a full training camp and a ‘normal’ season will see them regain their old form.
  2. Ference-J Schultz: Schultz the younger and Nick Schultz were not an effective pairing last season,but part of that was (imo) the younger man running out of gas (he played a lot of hockey in OKC, too). Schultz the elder had terrible instincts pinching in and I don’t really think he ever figured out Krueger’s system. The calm feet of Ference are probably a better fit for the roaming Schultz.
  3. N Schultz-Larsen: Veteran placed with a younger, more mobile defender. Larsen is probably something of a wild card going into camp but his only real competition for this slot is Corey Potter, who belongs to a previous regime.
  4. Anton Belov: If there’s one thing we know it’s that the #7 guy is going to play a lot due to injury, ineffectiveness etc. Belov is a very strong #7 to my eye, and I do think he wins it over Klefbom but that is not assured. Potter is also in the mix and I think we should allow for the possibility that Edmonton carries 8 defenders.

 

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99 Responses to "BELOV AND THE BLUE"

  1. 99thoilerfan says:

    Good morning LT!

    How do you say ” the Russians are coming” in Russian?
    Huge gamble, but worth it. I hope he sticks, and sends home postcards
    ” Having a great time, wish you were here ! “

  2. Lowetide says:

    It’s funny, the Russians have never really been a big factor in Edmonton. Which is crazy, because if you take a globe and run along the Edmonton parallel to Russia basically most of these kids would be right at home during an Edmonton winter.

    I think Yakupov could be a very important recruiting element, especially as he grows older and his fame increases.

  3. 99thoilerfan says:

    The Oil have targeted past World Junior team Canada players, it looks like they are looking at adding more of these types of players…. More off the Team Russia line up now.

    Think Globally, act Locally ! Go Oil!

  4. Clarkenstein says:

    Larsen will start the year in OKC.

  5. godot10 says:

    Nick Schultz and Andrew Ference can both play RD. Klefbom is extremely comfortable as either a LD or a RD.

    The Oilers have 4 veteran defensemen (Smid, Petry, Ference, NSchultz). Trading any one of them before the trade deadline without replacing them with a similar veteran defensemen or upgrade would be a huge mistake. How did three veteran defensemen work last year? And the year before that?

    The blogosphere can’t ever have enough forwards, and always want to trade the defensemen who have proven they can play away for more forwards.

    Even though a 2nd pairing D tends to play way more minutes and EV than a 1st line forward.

  6. Woodguy says:

    I think I’m more excited by the addition of Belov than any other addition.

    I firmly believe that the inability of the Oilers D to break the cycle and make a good first pass was a key reason the zone exits with possession were so poor, and the extension a key reason (but not the only reason) the team was poor.

    By all reports Belov is a large man who can break the cycle and make the first pass, and even skate a bit.

    Let’s look at the Oilers D last year broken down by 5v5 TOI/gm:

    Jeff Petry 17:57:00
    Justin Schultz 17:39:00
    Ladislav Smid 17:03:00
    Nick Schultz 16:05:00
    Theo Peckham 15:49:00
    Ryan Whitney 15:32:00
    Corey Potter 14:41:00
    Mark Fistric 13:10:00

    The top 3 players *should* be better this year. They were lost last year in terms of possession.

    Shultz is forgiveable as he was a rookie, and Mike Parkatti showed that Shultz really fell in the toilet when playing with Whitney (can’t find the link right now)

    Smid & Petry had terrible results last year, but that may have been systematically driven (more on that later)

    That leaves us:

    N.Shultz – not a great skater, no good first pass
    Whitney – can’t turn anymore, great passer but couldn’t get there anymore
    Peckam – No TOI, so doesn’t matter
    Potter – Surprising effective as 3rd pairing guy when NOT with Whitney
    Fistric – Meh away from Potter (usually because he was with Whitney), but not a great skater and not a good passer

    I firmly think that N.Shultz won’t be back, so 3 of 4 Dmen from last year probably won’t be back.

    The only one to return will be Potter, the one who can skate a bit and take-give a pass.

    Turning over the rest of the guys (N.Shultz, Whitney, Fistric) all were missing one of skating/passing or missing both.

    Upgrading those 3 spots with players who CAN skate/pass will have enormous effects on the Oilers possession stats, and of course their ability to win games.

    Belov is a key part of that, as of course is Ference, Larsen, and Klef. All of whom we know, or its reported to us, can skate and make a pass.

    Do not underestimate how much better this makes the OIlers.

    SInce Belov is a large man who will hit, I expect the Oilers fan to love him as the love all large Dmen, so hopefully he works out and sticks around for a few years.

    The ability to make the good first pass is why I also believe that Smid’s place on the team isn’t secure. He’s more of a shutdown guy and I think if MacT can upgrade Smid’s spot on the roster with someone who can pass better, he’ll do it.

    Now that LT likes Smid, its probably time to trade him.

    Also,

    I mentioned earlier that Smid and Petry’s poor results may have been systematically driven.

    Let’s have a closer look at that.

    First off you should read everything that Tyler publishes on Oiler possession micro-stats. The more it points to RK’s systems being a black hole of possession. http://www.mc79hockey.com/ (read the Oiler Big Data series)

    Since Smid and Petry have played a ton together in the last 2 years, we can compare year over year.

    Let’s look at Smid and Petry in 11/12 and then in 12/13

    In both seasons they played the toughest comp.

    CF% together and apart (CF% is the percentage of shot attempts the team got with the players on the ice)

    11/12
    Smid 47.6%
    Petry 49.2%
    Together 49.7%
    Smid apart 45.8%
    Petry apart 48.7%

    Not world beaters, but on a terrible team, playing the toughs, they came out near even water, which is a very good result. Smid without Petry is a tad concerning.

    12/13
    Smid 44.1%
    Petry 44.3%
    Together 44.4%
    Smid apart 42.7%
    Petry apart 43.9%

    That’s a precipitous drop from year previous.

    Given the mounting evidence of the entire team failing and flailing last year, RK and his systems need to wear a pile of that.

    So, since the Oilers have :

    1) Upgraded the coach and therefore systems (not a slam dunk but its probably a good bet)
    2) Cleaned out most of the D who don’t make the good first pass/skate well enough to start the zone exit properly

    I think the results of the team will be far better in terms of CF%, and therefore far better in terms of winning games.

    Belov may be a key part of that if he is as advertised, a large World Championship caliber Dman who can skate, pass and break the cycle.

  7. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Clarkenstein:
    Larsen will start the year in OKC.

    No problem with that. I’m interested in the kid, but he’s numbers were a bit rough last year.

    I think the issue here is as LT mentions he’s on a One-Way contract, he gets his $$$ either way. I don’t know how much that will matter to MacT, but he might be reluctant to pay that kind of cake for an OKC blue.

  8. Lowetide says:

    Clarkenstein:
    Larsen will start the year in OKC.

    Unlikely he would clear waivers.

  9. lance says:

    LT do you see any parallels between Yakupov and Reggie Jackson? I was old enough to see him play but too young to really understand why he was called the straw that stirred.

    It seems Yak and his culture could challenge the Alberta boy’s topdown lockdown on the team. Is that anything like what shook out with Reggie?

    Can Yak be that straw and does Belov potentially play any role that you see?

  10. godot10 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: No problem with that. I’m interested in the kid, but he’s numbers were a bit rough last year.

    I think the issue here is as LT mentions he’s on a One-Way contract, he gets his $$$ either way. I don’t know how much that will matter to MacT, but he might be reluctant to pay that kind of cake for an OKC blue.

    Cost of doing business if one wants to have depth in defense, or else you are rushing young D to the NHL to fill in for injuries, and disrupting their AHL development.

    The #8D on an NHL salary, even in the minors, is one of the advantages of a rich team over a poor team. And the guy can then be shuttled up and down without much worry of him being claimed on waivers.

  11. Lowetide says:

    WG said: Now that LT likes Smid, its probably time to trade him.

    lol. I have been told more than once that my positive stance on Smid will probably get him traded. If only I had that power, I’d fill these pages with “please don’t trade for Chara!”

  12. Ducey says:

    I think it will be:

    Smid – Petry
    Ference – Schultz, Jr
    N. Schultz – Belov

    Potter will be #7

    Larsen and Klefbom will be on the farm.

    The farm team will be stacked with defensemen

    Klefbom, Marincin, Larsen, Davidson, Hunt, Fedun, and Gernat. Add in another AHL vet and that is a very strong group.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I’m going to put my neck out, because it is ultimately meaningless to do so, and suggest that Belov is well clear of N. Schultz coming in and is a lock for the opening night roster even with N. Schultz on the team.

    Some reasons:

    MacT stressed puck moving skill on the blue. N. Schultz — at this point — is a worse Smid, who is not that kind of player MacT stressed either. Belov is. He gets the nod.

    The language from both player and GM suggest a strong commitment to one another. This guy is leaving the KHL where he is comfortable, can make a ton of $$ and is likely adored by people who know his body of work.

    he’s not taking the easy route. And he is attacking his opportunity. From the same article we’ve all read a dozen times now and LT posted above:

    Belov signed a one-year entry-level two-way deal and is very driven to prove himself.
    “First of all, I want to develop professionally. I had a chance to sign a multi-year contract with Omsk this summer and provide for myself and my family for a very long time. But I think that these things make an athlete relaxed. When you know that you have a contract, that the money is coming, a feeling of easy and fullness sets in and the development halts right away,” Belov stated.
    “You can even tell yourself ‘Everything is good, I am working,’ and at the same time you’re standing still. This is what I am afraid of. This is the reason I have always signed minimum term contracts, preferably for one year. I want to grow, progress and that’s why I made a decision to go to the NHL. I need to be demanding to myself until the end.”

    on adjusting to the NHL game in the offseason:

    Belov hopes to utilize his offensive skills in the NHL the same way he did in the KHL, hoping that the Oilers picked him for his creative abilities as well as his defensive play. At the same time Belov realizes that he will need to adjust to the physical nature of the game in North America.
    “I have set a goal for myself this summer: I need to get more physical. Strengthen shoulders first of all, because there is a lot of contact in the NHL, the ice is smaller and there are a lot of hits. And, of course, you have to try to get rid of the puck as soon as possible, and not to mess around with it for too long… Mistakes are not forgiven in the NHL.”

    This guy is a gamer. I’m putting my faith in it working. I think we are all going to unwrap one of our favorite Christmas presents this Fall.

  14. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    MacT stressed puck moving skill on the blue. N. Schultz — at this point — is a worse Smid, who is not that kind of player MacT stressed either. Belov is. He gets the nod.

    That’s it exactly.

  15. Ducey says:

    Lowetide: Unlikely he would clear waivers.

    LT, you think Larsen > Potter? Why?

    I don’t see much between them, except that Potter is bigger and older and might be better in a #7 role. Of course he is cheaper and it would hurt less to send him to the farm.

  16. Lowetide says:

    lance:
    LT do you see any parallels between Yakupov and Reggie Jackson?I was old enough to see him play but too young to really understand why he was called the straw that stirred.

    It seems Yak and his culture could challenge the Alberta boy’s topdown lockdown on the team.Is that anything like what shook out with Reggie?

    Can Yak be that straw and does Belov potentially play any role that you see?

    Reggie was an outstanding power hitter and an enormous personality. They have that in common. Beyond that, I don’t know that we can project it. Jackson could be an amazing teammate and an impact player, but was also divisive (in insane circumstances) in Oakland.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: LT, you think Larsen > Potter?Why?

    I don’t see much between them, except that Potter is bigger and older and might be better in a #7 role.Of course he is cheaper and it would hurt less to send him to the farm.

    I’m basing Larsen>Potter on the fact that the current GM brought one in and has zero connection or loyalty to the other. I’ve watching a lot of sports teams with horrible records over the years, and the one thing I can say with authority is that aging veterans and fringe players should sleep with one eye open.

  18. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: The only one to return will be Potter, the one who can skate a bit and take-give a pass.

    Agree with everything you wrote… makes my subsequent post superfluous really. should have read it first.

    On this Potter thing, I wanted to throw my hat in here too… It looked like he was ranging back into pre-injury 2011 form last year and his contract is a beauty. He was a bright spot last year for me at the end, which was a surprise.

    I think he makes for a nice, cheap, reliable, puck-moving #7.

    Woodguy: The ability to make the good first pass is why I also believe that Smid’s place on the team isn’t secure. He’s more of a shutdown guy and I think if MacT can upgrade Smid’s spot on the roster with someone who can pass better, he’ll do it.
    Now that LT likes Smid, its probably time to trade him.

    I wonder about this too…

    I wonder though if MacT doesn’t see the value in having one of these kinds of guys around, especially if he can reliably be paired with Petry (or equivalent). Smid is very good at breaking cycles in the D-zone he just can’t get the puck going the other way without a pass to his partner first.

    Also… I will adult man cry if Smid leaves.

  19. striatic says:

    the current array at D is designed for competition at the TC.

    i don’t think the Oilers would mind losing Larsen to waivers if he loses the competiton at TC.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: I’m basing Larsen>Potter on the fact that the current GM brought one in and has zero connection or loyalty to the other. I’ve watching a lot of sports teams with horrible records over the years, and the one thing I can say with authority is that aging veterans and fringe players should sleep with one eye open.

    That’s the crux on Potter if there is one to jeopardize his future… not his play or contract so much as the new GM putting a new stamp and excising everything he can.

    I wonder though… we never really heard much from him about Larsen… how attached is he to him either? Did he pursue him specifically and aggressively in the Horcov return, or was it more of an afterthought, sweetener (or, more likely something in-between)?

  21. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    striatic:
    the current array at D is designed for competition at the TC.

    i don’t think the Oilers would mind losing Larsen to waivers if he loses the competiton at TC.

    Certainly possible, that would definitely suggest MacT didn’t insist (feel free to insert a milder term here) on Larsen in the Horcov return.

    Not sure they abandon the player that fast… but I’m also not certain that he isn’t if not the #7 than the #8 if Eakins decides to ride with extra D.

    ——–

    On the waiver wire… what’s the deal this year with re-entry waivers? does last year’s rule extend to the life of the CBA or was it a lock-out year only thing?

  22. Lowetide says:

    WG: I think re-entry waivers are no more.

  23. cabbiesmacker says:

    So the possibilities are…..

    Hemsky + Schultz + Depth D for?

    I wonder how much salary the Oilers would have to eat of Hemsky and Schultz’ contracts to move them for just one forward need?

  24. rickithebear says:

    Woodguy: That’s a precipitous drop from year previous.

    while CF is a lovely measure.

    in the real world Zgf and GA winyou games.
    J. schultz GF rate was near 1.5 to 1.91 for 797 min
    were the key is is reflected in GA
    N. schultz
    545 min 3.85 GA/60
    GF% 32.7 2.06GA:1GF
    GF% %$.5%
    R. whitney
    120 min 2.97 GA/60
    GF% 33.3 2.00GA:1GF
    GF% 56.0
    L. Smid
    63 min 1.91 GA/60
    GF% 50.0 1:1

    Jesus J. schultz was a boat anchor
    turn Whitney and Schultz Plus players in to
    outscored 2 to 1.

    WG you might want to check all the tough comp D pairs.
    Combined EVGA. Snid Petry were #3.

  25. Clarkenstein says:

    Lowetide,

    My bad. Didn’t know he was on one way. Might have had to take him to get rid of Horc.

  26. SinceTheWHADays says:

    Woodguy,

    I couldn’t agree more. I think with 7 years of being at the bottom of the league most pundits have become overly pessamistic and very cautiously optimistic. If Belov is the best D from the KHL I think he’ll slot in a little higher than #7. But the big factor for the team and the D as a group will defiantly come via system play as pointed out by WG in his reference to the data crunched by Tyler.

  27. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Looks like everyone is signing their ELCs:

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=427482

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=427608

    any reason Nurse hasn’t signed yet? Does it have something to do with where he plays next year?

    ———

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=427567

    there’s one of the released D picked up…

    still surprised no one targeted Hunwick. Maybe the Avs will trade him for spare parts now that they are stuck with him.

  28. lance says:

    I guess I see Belov’s additions on the ice being potentially less important than his additions off the ice. Its quite possible that I’m committing a form of racism here by assuming Russians pool together (when really a successful internal competition could be waged along work-out / go-out lines) but based on his one year contract dialogue, I wonder if Belov potentially has both Yak’s worth ethic and sufficient ethnic commonalities.

    I don’t really know what happened with Reggie Jackson in NY, except they won lots. And I think the Oilers could be wise to hire a psychologist to facilitate a successful integration for Belov and the new recruits, something like what I perceive was going on in NY namely internal competition inside a locker room, something that gets these kids hitting the weights twice daily instead of the bars every night.

    Assuming Belov can perform on the ice well enough to stay, I think the Oilers could really try and build an internal competition between East and West and maybe they can give Belov all the tools to do it. Last year Yak looked to be on an island at times, team mates looking him off then Yak celebrating goals alone, maybe Belov can be a bridge, and maybe the Oilers could help it all happen.

    I don’t know enough of the happenings in NY to know if its something worth trying to replicate.

  29. supernova says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: That’s the crux on Potter if there is one to jeopardize his future… not his play or contract so much as the new GM putting a new stamp and excising everything he can.

    I wonder though… we never really heard much from him about Larsen… how attached is he to him either? Did he pursue him specifically and aggressively in the Horcov return, or was it more of an afterthought, sweetener (or, more likely something in-between)?

    I am happy that Potter has to sleep with one eye open. I don’t think he should make the team.
    Actually I feel if Potter plays as much as he did last year you are a bad NHL team.

    I am glad he made the NHL got himself a two year -one way deal, but if the OIlers are to improve his spot is one that needs to have a better player in it.

  30. jp says:

    Lowetide:

    I also believe the Oilers may not be done here, Nick Schultz at $3.5M for the third pairing is a little dear.

    If MacT isn’t able to bring in a higher pairing D I’m sure they’ll keep N. Schultz. He is overpriced for the 3rd pairing, but when you’re 1st pairing is sub-par than do all you can to have a solid 2nd and 3rd. I think we’ll see:

    Smid-Petry
    Ference-J.Schultz
    Belov-N.Schultz
    Larsen/Potter

    I think Belov is in the top 6. And N.Schultz has played some RD in the past, right. Agreed Klefbom starts in OKC. If he makes the team or if they bring in a higher pairing D obviously they do have too many bodies, otherwise I’m a fan of having 8 NHL D.

    Woodguy,
    Improved systems play could have a huge positive effect next season. Lets hope!

  31. Gerta Rauss says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Looks like everyone is signing their ELCs:

    any reason Nurse hasn’t signed yet? Does it have something to do with where he plays next year?

    I think the OIlers intend to send him back to junior-he won’t sign a pro contract for 1 (maybe 2) years.

    Nice pickup by Minn-Blum has a lot of nice things going for him, we just don’t have any more room for 6/7/8 defenders that are still learning the pro game.

  32. Gerta Rauss says:

    I’m still hoping the Oilers are looking for another established D man-I would like a right pairing, right shot D with a little anger in his game-somebody to push Junior down to that 3rd pair. I know Ference and Senior can both play the right side but I’d wager they both feel more comfortable on the left side.

    I’ve mentioned Polak in the past and mentioned Girardi yesterday-not sure what it would cost or if they are available but that’s what I would like to see.

  33. HugThePost says:

    Everything I’ve heard of Belov makes me think he is a bit of a hybrid between 2 great oiler Russian D from years past: Ulanov and Mironov.

    If he can channel a bit of both, we will have a great one (except hopefully he leaves out the going AWOL on a bender during a road trip stuff).

    I really enjoyed the skill, physicality (especially Ulanov) and the little bit of crazy both of those guys had.

  34. Woodguy says:

    rickithebear: while CF is a lovely measure.

    in the real world Zgf and GA winyou games.
    J. schultz GF rate was near 1.5 to 1.91 for 797 min
    were the key is is reflected in GA
    N. schultz
    545 min3.85 GA/60
    GF% 32.7 2.06GA:1GF
    GF% %$.5%
    R. whitney
    120 min 2.97 GA/60
    GF% 33.3 2.00GA:1GF
    GF% 56.0
    L. Smid
    63 min1.91 GA/60
    GF% 50.01:1

    Jesus J. schultz was a boat anchor
    turn Whitney and Schultz Plus players in to
    outscored 2 to 1.

    WG you might want to check all the tough comp D pairs.
    Combined EVGA. Snid Petry were #3.

    2 things:

    1) Despite mountain ranges of evidence showing that SV%ON is NOT influenced much by players, you continue to use it in your evaluation. For that reason alone your evaluations are useless.

    2) : while CF is a lovely measure.

    in the real world Zgf and GA winyou games.

    Shot attempts for and against are real. You can’t make their correlation to winning go away no matter how many times you wave your hand at them.

  35. RexLibris says:

    On the topic of Russian players/prospects acclimatizing to North America, Edmonton has a large Russian expat population and I recall a story (from Lisa McRitchie, iirc) about the Oilers development group finding some Slovakian matrons out in Prince George (I haven’t the foggiest clue how they did it) to help ease Marincin’s time in the WHL.

    Yakupov brought his mother and sister to live with him here, and I wonder if the Oilers could find a local connection to help with Belov’s transition. Given their recent investment in prospects like Slepyshev, Yakimov and Zharkov it might be worthwhile to reach out to the aforementioned Russian community here in town and create some bridge relationships.

    As for Larsen and Potter, I’d put money on Larsen because he has NHL games under his belt and may be a younger version of Potter. When all other things are equal, youth is often translated as potential and that can mean the difference between keeping a vet and going to a younger player.

    At this point in the summer I’m hoping that MacTavish can take his two (as I see it) remaining trade assets in Hemsky and N. Schultz and use them address our key remaining roster holes, depth at C/W and top pairing D. It all depends on the cap situation and how Holmgren’s situation shakes down as we near training camp.

    The difference between Coburn and Schultz the Elder’s cap hit is $1 million. That and a prospect/pick might be enough to swing a deal. With the Hemsky trade debate, perhaps something like the opposite of the Perron deal, where he is moved for a player who slots in lower in the rotation and a pick. Salary might have to be retained to make it work, but I remain stubbornly convinced that the player has value.

  36. Lowetide says:

    RexLibris:

    The difference between Coburn and Schultz the Elder’s cap hit is $1 million. That and a prospect/pick might be enough to swing a deal.

    I’ve been thinking about this for a day or so (if I actually spent time doing things instead of thinking about them I would be a more productive human) and what about:

    Oilers trade N Schultz (while retaining $1.75M, or half of cap space) for Braydon Coburn?

    I think Philly is 2M short, that kind of gets them to the point they can sign Gagne.

  37. fifthcartel says:

    N Schultz has to be on the move.

    Smid
    Ference
    N Schultz
    Belov.

    Belov probably has the edge being a guy brought in by MacT, and can move the puck fairly well, compared to the other LH defense who are not known for their offense.

  38. jp says:

    HugThePost:
    Everything I’ve heard of Belov makes me think he is a bit of a hybrid between 2 great oiler Russian D from years past:Ulanov and Mironov.

    If he can channel a bit of both, we will have a great one (except hopefully he leaves out the going AWOL on a bender during a road trip stuff).

    I really enjoyed the skill, physicality (especially Ulanov) and the little bit of crazy both of those guys had.

    Agreed with you on that – loved both of those guys! I haven’t seen Belov play, but the scouting reports don’t seem to indicate the same kind of mean streak that Bobo and Ulanov had. Those guys could HIT (and liked to). Maybe Belov does have that same element, I hope so, but I’m expecting a little less crazy out of him. It’s a great bet of a signing though.

  39. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I’ve been thinking about this for a day or so (if I actually spent time doing things instead of thinking about them I would be a more productive human) and what about:

    Oilers trade N Schultz (while retaining $1.75M, or half of cap space) for Braydon Coburn?

    I think Philly is 2M short, that kind of gets them to the point they can sign Gagne.

    Oilers would have to sweeten the pot to get it done.

    Word is that Holmgren doesn’t want to move Coburn, but wants to move Mezaros

    Mezaros has seriously negative value right now. Bad shoulder and achilles may have derailed his career and he has

    Its too late to compliance buy out Mezaros so if anyone takes him, they own the hit for a year.

    Last I heard Holmgren was pitching Couturier and Mezaros to CAL for Gio, but Feaster wasn’t biting.

    I’d do Smid + ? for Couturier and Mezaros in a heartbeat and just put Mezaros in the AHL. Should still fit under the cap.

    Not sure Holmgren goes for it. Smid is no Gio.

  40. steveb12344 says:

    Is Coburn really a top pairing D-man? (I realize he would be on the current Oilers, but that’s not what I mean.)

    Is Nultz, and a pick really the asking price for such a player?

    While I would take that deal (prospect must be from south of Marincin, and pick no better than a second)l, I suspect that if Holmer let’s him go that easily, we may end up pretty dissapointed if we’re expecting a top pairing guy in Coburn.

  41. jonrmcleod says:

    Perhaps it would be wise for MacT to hold on to all of the Oilers defenseman for now. Injuries during the pre-season are a real possibility. Also, if other teams suffer injuries to their defensemen, the value of someone like N. Schultz suddenly goes up.

  42. denny33 says:

    Does anyone here feel Ference is a -significant – upgrade over N. Schultz?

    Not me.

    I rest my hopes on what WG mentioned, removal of RK system

    Hoping a more normal system helps Smid -Petry…

    In addition, hoping Belov is a pleasant surprise.

    Willing to bet a Tim’s coffee that Klefbom forces the teams hand and is the best D skater on the team

    One thing is for sure the sheer absence of Ryan Whitney has made this D core a LOT better…

  43. Kert says:

    jp: Those guys could HIT (and liked to)

    I suspect he enjoys playing the body too.

  44. Woodguy says:

    fifthcartel:
    N Schultz has to be on the move.

    Smid
    Ference
    N Schultz
    Belov.

    Belov probably has the edge being a guy brought in by MacT, and can move the puck fairly well, compared to the other LH defense who are not known for their offense.

    Which is why I think that if everyone pans out like MacT thinks they will, the Left D will look like:

    Ference
    Belov
    Klefbom

    By February

  45. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: I’ve been thinking about this for a day or so (if I actually spent time doing things instead of thinking about them I would be a more productive human) and what about:

    Oilers trade N Schultz (while retaining $1.75M, or half of cap space) for Braydon Coburn?

    I think Philly is 2M short, that kind of gets them to the point they can sign Gagne.

    I would love that deal, but the “what’s in it for me” quotient for Holmgren doesn’t seem high enough.

    Schultz with some salary retained, as you say just under $2 million, and a throw in like a 6th might be enough, but again, it depends on the pressure Holmgren is feeling in other areas. If he feels pressure to re-sign Gagne and sees a minor downgrade at one position as benefiting his team as a whole by diversifying the forwards then it would be a win for both sides. MacTavish strikes me as someone who, in trade negotiations, would offer up the benefits for both sides in any deal. Sly and wily, but fair and honest.

  46. G Money says:

    Lowetide sez: Jan Hejda came over years ago and MacT never did recognize his skill level and Hejda ended up following Scott Howson to Columbus and carving out an NHL career.

    Hey LT, can you explain what you mean by this? My recollection of those days is quite different. I do think that MacT (the coach) recognized Hejda’s value, and he was a bit of a horse for us during the season.

    But then Lowe (the GM) decided to go whale hunting – Hossa as I recall – and in the process, Hejda decided he might as well sign in Clb rather than wait. Yet another of the Lowe missteps in the post-Pronger “desperate to win now” days.

    As far as Belov is concerned, I think we get a fairly bipolar result:

    - He’s a top pair defenseman on one of the best teams in the second best pro league in the world, and good enough to play for the WC team of one of the world powers of hockey. He’s big and can skate. If his game translates to the NHL, he could/should easily be on one of the top two pairings.

    - If his game doesn’t translate to the NHL (angles, speeds, ice surface), I don’t think he cracks the lineup.

  47. VOR says:

    Lance,

    Jackson went to the Yankees and shortly after called himself the straw that stirs the drink. Irritated the crap out of his teammates. They were a pretty talented team. Jackson was just one guy after all. They came up with some pretty nasty nicknames for Jackson. Then the playoffs started and he gained the nickname by which he will always be known, and his teammates realized the could live with a guy who deserved to be known as Mr. October.

  48. Lowetide says:

    Steve: Coburn had a weird season this year, but he has all of the things you look for in a shutdown guy. Size, mobility, coverage. Insane zone start, toughest comp a year ago.

  49. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: Oilers would have to sweeten the pot to get it done.

    Word is that Holmgren doesn’t want to move Coburn, but wants to move Mezaros

    Mezaros has seriously negative value right now.Bad shoulder and achilles may have derailed his career and he has

    Its too late to compliance buy out Mezaros so if anyone takes him, they own the hit for a year.

    Last I heard Holmgren was pitching Couturier and Mezaros to CAL for Gio, but Feaster wasn’t biting.

    I’d do Smid + ? for Couturier and Mezaros in a heartbeat and just put Mezaros in the AHL.Should still fit under the cap.

    Not sure Holmgren goes for it.Smid is no Gio.

    If Feaster wouldn’t do Couturier and Meszaros for Giordano then he should be fired yesterday. Giordano is a good depth defenseman, but his best years are right now and by the time the Flames look to move him he will be a depreciating asset similar to the Regehr trade.

    They sat on Iginla for B. Schenn a few years ago. Absolute lunacy if they sit on this deal as well.

    Smid and Coburn are identical cap hits, so I don’t know if there is a match there for the Oilers.

    This is where MacTavish has to let external pressures force Holmgren’s hand. It is risky, but might give him the best return.

  50. Lowetide says:

    G Money: MacT was slow to recognize Hejda for what he was, and it was made worse by Lowe’s indifference. I wrote about the Lowe portion here

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2007/07/howson-steals-hejda-2.html

  51. RexLibris says:

    Kings signed Muzzin. Just over $4 million for Lewis, Clifford, Martinez, and Nolan.

    I suspect Nolan and Martinez might be cut loose. I’d be surprised if Clifford and Lewis were let go by Lombardi.

  52. Andropod says:

    How about Smid and Hemsky with some salary take back for Coutourier?

  53. Woodguy says:

    denny33:
    Does anyone here feel Ference is a -significant – upgrade over N. Schultz?

    Not me.

    I rest my hopes on what WG mentioned, removal of RK system

    Hoping a more normal system helps Smid -Petry…

    In addition, hoping Belov is a pleasant surprise.

    Willing to bet a Tim’s coffee that Klefbom forces the teams hand and is the best D skater on the team

    One thing is for sure the sheer absence of Ryan Whitney has made this D core a LOT better…

    Just by eye, (Ference in the playoffs and N.Shultz all year) I think Ference is much faster and makes quicker decisions and better passes.

    N. Shultz looked done many nights last year.

  54. G Money says:

    RexLibris: Smid and Coburn are identical cap hits, so I don’t know if there is a match there for the Oilers.

    I also don’t think Philly has any ‘real’ cap issues. They look bad under capgeek, but (as I understand it), they can use AHL assignments to get under the cap temporarily at the start of the season, put Pronger on LTIR, then bring the players back and be comfortably under the cap.

    I think their roster is too big and they will need to move some people out, but I don’t believe they have any urgency to move anyone that would be considered ‘good’ – and despite a bad year, I think there is no question that Coburn is good.

  55. Woodguy says:

    Andropod:
    How about Smid and Hemsky with some salary take back for Coutourier?

    They are too cap strung.

    Couturier is 1.47 and Mezaros is 4.

    You need to send back 4 or less for it to make sense for PHI and the player/package has to be significant to get Couturier. Like Gio.

  56. Woodguy says:

    G Money: I also don’t think Philly has any ‘real’ cap issues.They look bad under capgeek, but (as I understand it), they can use AHL assignments to get under the cap temporarily at the start of the season, put Pronger on LTIR, then bring the players back and be comfortably under the cap.

    I think their roster is too big and they will need to move some people out, but I don’t believe they have any urgency to move anyone that would be considered ‘good’ – and despite a bad year, I think there is no question that Coburn is good.

    Last year they had bigger salaries they could send down to the AHL to get under the cap and not worry about waivers.

    They don’t this year.

    They have to move at least one contract and Holmgren is dying to move Mezaros.

  57. steveb12344 says:

    Lowetide: Steve: Coburn had a weird season this year, but he has all of the things you look for in a shutdown guy. Size, mobility, coverage. Insane zone start, toughest comp a year ago.

    If we could do a Perron style upgrade for N Schultz (which is what i believe you’re suggesting) I’d be exctatic. I’m just not sure Coburn would live up to the first pairing billing, And we all know how that works out with Oiler fans.

  58. jp says:

    Kert: I suspect he enjoys playingthe body too.

    That’s a lot more like the Russian D we remember. I can definitely live with a bit of that if it’s part of a solid hockey player. It would be huge for the Oilers if Belov can be a legit top 4 NHL D.

  59. Maverick says:

    G Money: I also don’t think Philly has any ‘real’ cap issues.They look bad under capgeek, but (as I understand it), they can use AHL assignments to get under the cap temporarily at the start of the season, put Pronger on LTIR, then bring the players back and be comfortably under the cap.

    I think their roster is too big and they will need to move some people out, but I don’t believe they have any urgency to move anyone that would be considered ‘good’ – and despite a bad year, I think there is no question that Coburn is good.

    The Flyers have to move a player out to get under the cap.

    Here is an excerpt from a Flyers blogger site in Philly.
    http://www.highphive.net/2013/07/08/a-look-at-your-philadelphia-flyers-by-the-numbers/

    “Flyers General Manager, Paul Holmgren, is going to have his work cut-out for him in the long-term, the short-term, and the very short-term. In the very short-term he needs to find a way to cut a lot of salary before the season to get down to the $64.3 million salary cap. Chris Pronger’s LTIR cap relief will not be available to be shed until after the Flyers already get down to the salary cap. Some of the contracts for the younger players are two-way contracts that are eligible to be sent down to the AHL until the Chris Pronger cap relief is available, however, there is still around $3 million that the Flyers will need to shed before the season starts. The easiest way to get to that number would be by trading Coburn or Meszaros as previously mentioned. However, if there are no trade partners available Holmgren will need to find another way to shed the cap space they need. In the short-term, he will need to decide how much he is willing and able to spend on the young forwards that will be free agents in the next year. Lastly, in the long-term he will need to decide how he plans on surrounding his core who are signed for contracts of four years or more with players who are not only talented but will be small hits to the already constricted salary cap. By signing older players like Streit, Lecavalier and Hartnell to long-term expensive contracts, Holmgren has backed himself into a corner. We just have to hope he can find a way out of this one”

  60. Maverick says:

    Here is another article from Philly about Pronger and it also mentions the St.Louis/Edmonton deal. “The only caveat with Pronger’s long-term injury exception is that he must be on the salary cap for the first day of the 186-day season.”

    http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-12/sports/40516584_1_paul-holmgren-erik-gustafsson-marc-andre-bourdon

  61. godot10 says:

    I don’t think LA has unresolvable cap problems. Willy Mitchell will go on LTIR. They will have to play some waiver games at the start of the season like Philly.

    i.e They have an #8D signed to an NHL contract under $900K which can be buried in the minors for cheap depth without cap impact.

  62. fifthcartel says:

    Does Belov’s bomb replace the Corey Potter Power Play?

  63. godot10 says:

    Perron is not necessarily an upgrade. Certainly it is a change, and a boldish move. But declaring a winner or loser of a trade before a single puck has been dropped is “counting your chickens”. A few of us think that over time, and perhaps a lot sooner than most suspect, that “the chickens will come home to roost”.

  64. Lowetide says:

    Andropod:
    Woodguy: Thanks for the info.

    Everyone: Is this for real or just a slow news day: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/13/ex-toronto-maple-leafs-executive-says-the-edmonton-oilers-may-be-interested-in-dion-phaneuf/

    And if you’re REALLY bored you can read what I wrote about him a year ago

    http://oilersnation.com/2012/3/13/el-kabong

  65. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: If Feaster wouldn’t do Couturier and Meszaros for Giordano then he should be fired yesterday. Giordano is a good depth defenseman, but his best years are right now and by the time the Flames look to move him he will be a depreciating asset similar to the Regehr trade.

    They sat on Iginla for B. Schenn a few years ago. Absolute lunacy if they sit on this deal as well.

    Smid and Coburn are identical cap hits, so I don’t know if there is a match there for the Oilers.

    This is where MacTavish has to let external pressures force Holmgren’s hand. It is risky, but might give him the best return.

    Gio is a very good 1st pairing D, not depth. On my way out so don’t have time to back it up, but will later if you are interested.

    Also,

    Smid = $3.5MM , Coburn $4.5MM cap hits.

  66. rickithebear says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    MacT stressed puck moving skill on the blue. N. Schultz — at this point — is a worse Smid, who is not that kind of player MacT stressed either. Belov is. He gets the nod.

    That’s it exactly.

    Puck movement?
    Even Assist/season?
    top 3 27+
    top 10 22+
    Top 20 19+
    Top 30 18+
    Top 40 16+
    Top 50 15+
    top 60 14+

    looking At our D ESA season rate
    Petry 17ESA top 40
    N. Schultz 15 ESA top 50 2 years w/ EDM
    A. Ference 14ESA Top 60
    J. Schultz 14 ESA Top 60
    Larsen 13 ESA
    L.Smid 9 ESA

    Belov
    Klefbom

    Nick?
    Nick!

  67. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: Gio is a very good 1st pairing D, not depth.On my way out so don’t have time to back it up, but will later if you are interested.

    Also,

    Smid = $3.5MM , Coburn $4.5MM cap hits.

    I think Giordano is a #1 on a weaker defensive group. In Edmonton, he’d be #1, same as he is in Calgary.

    My point was that he is hitting his peak now and those years are wasted on a Flames roster that is at least three years from being competitive.

    On balance, having Couturier as part of the rebuild is worth the deal, in my mind. No use hanging on to an asset that has no real value to your roster.

    I think I mentioned earlier that Schultz is $1 million below Coburn, but forgot to add Smid, somehow I mixed that one up.

    So are you suggesting Smid as the centerpiece of a trade that brings back Couturier? I could live with that. It’d be another twist in the “six-degrees-of-Chris-Pronger-trade” saga.

  68. böökje says:

    Clarkenstein:
    Lowetide,

    My bad. Didn’t know he was on one way.Might have had to take him to get rid of Horc.

    I think LT needs to rename this blog “One vs Two Way contracts have NOTHING to do with waivers!” because nothing else has worked.

    Perhaps it would simply be easier if the NHL and NHLPA changed the CBA so that waiver eligibility did align with one vs two way contracts. I mean, it would not achieve what the NHL and NHLPA’s goals are, but it would avoid a lot of long winded explanations on blog sites.

    Waiver eligibility is based upon the age of the individual and the number of years they have played in professional leagues and the year that they started their pro career.

    All that one way contracts determine is how much money the player makes if the are sent down. One way contracts provide the player with exactly the same amount of money in the NHL as the AHL. Two way contracts provide a reduced (often very significantly reduced like 90% less) salary in the AHL vs the NHL.

  69. böökje says:

    Woodguy: Just by eye, (Ference in the playoffs and N.Shultz all year) I think Ference is much faster and makes quicker decisions and better passes.

    N. Shultz looked done many nights last year.

    So, you saw him better, but what do the stats say?

    Wowy’s and V-Hammers and all of that good stuff?

  70. G Money says:

    Woodguy: Last year they had bigger salaries they could send down to the AHL to get under the cap and not worry about waivers.

    They don’t this year.

    They have to move at least one contract and Holmgren is dying to move Mezaros.

    I won’t argue with a Flyers blogger (per Maverick‘s post that they need to lose a $3M player), but the numbers don’t add up.

    As of today, assuming CapGeek – which seems to be the gold standard – is correct, the Flyers are $2M over the cap with 25 players signed.

    So 2 players worth $1M each on two way contracts would in theory be enough to give them relief e.g. Gustafsson and Laughton – though I don’t know if those guys qualify under the CBA for cap relief purposes.

    Either way, the two numbers ($2M vs $3M) don’t match.

    I don’t doubt they want to move Meszaros, but I think that would be true whether they were cap-limited or not.

    If it does turn out to be true that they have to move one player, then that makes it a distinct possibility to get Coburn in exchange for picks or prospects – salary dumps are pretty much always cheaper than hockey trades.

  71. justDOit says:

    Zherdev’s contract terminated by his KHL team. Maybe this is one Russian player the Oilers don’t want to court?

    https://twitter.com/dchesnokov/status/356063232055709697

  72. FastOil says:

    Andropod:
    Woodguy: Thanks for the info.

    Everyone: Is this for real or just a slow news day: http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/07/13/ex-toronto-maple-leafs-executive-says-the-edmonton-oilers-may-be-interested-in-dion-phaneuf/

    Too funny, I pitched that yesterday. I don’t think folks thought it was a good idea.

    Phaneuf is better than any current Oiler D so he’s a good fit. He’s UFA next year which reduces his value and he doesn’t seem popular in TO from what I have read a few times here and there.

    Trade Hemsky and N Schultz, retain a little salary, for Kulemin and Phaneuf. Helps both teams, Leafs get some cap relief. Maybe toss in a lower end prospect like Gernat or Musil if necessary. The value to the Leafs means the deal doesn’t need too much of a sweetener IMO.

    They might still be able to squeeze Coburn in if that’s still on the table.

    FORWARDS
    Taylor Hall ($6.000m) / Ryan N.-Hopkins ($3.775m) / David Perron ($3.813m)
    Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m) / Sam Gagner ($4.750m) / Jordan Eberle ($6.000m)
    Ryan Smyth ($2.250m) / Boyd Gordon ($3.000m) / Nail Yakupov ($3.775m)
    Jesse Joensuu ($0.950m) / David Steckel ($1.400m) / Ryan Jones ($1.500m)
    Mike Brown ($0.737m)
    DEFENSEMEN
    Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m) / Jeff Petry ($1.750m)
    Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Justin Schultz ($3.775m)
    Anton Belov ($1.525m) / Andrew Ference ($3.250m)
    Corey Potter ($0.775m)
    GOALTENDERS
    Devan Dubnyk ($3.500m)
    Jason Labarbera ($1.000m)
    OTHER
    Buried: Ben Eager ($0.175m)
    Buried: Philip Larsen ($0.100m)
    RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.778% of upper limit)
    Ales Hemsky ($0.500m—10.0%)
    ——
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
    SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,099,167; BONUSES: $9,150,000
    CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,023,333

    Edit – or switch Larsen for Potter – Larsen won’t clear waivers as LT said, or trade him.

  73. stevezie says:

    Is there a limit to how much salary we can retain? Could we offer to retain 100% of Schultz’s salary in a trade for Coburn (or 100$ of Hemsky for Coutourier, or whatever fantasy scenario you want to dream up)?
    We have some space, it might be time to get nuts.

  74. prairieschooner says:

    Business is business but nobody likes Phaneuf
    How hard would it be to cheer for him here in Edmonton?
    I think I would rather cheer for Regher

  75. justDOit says:

    stevezie,

    I believe it’s up to 50% of each contract, with a maximum that the team can withhold as well (not sure on that amount).

  76. delooper says:

    Lowetide:
    It’s funny, the Russians have never really been a big factor in Edmonton. Which is crazy, because if you take a globe and run along the Edmonton parallel to Russia basically most of these kids would be right at home during an Edmonton winter.

    I imagine for some Russians the attraction of the NHL isn’t just the NHL, it’s that they can play in cities in Florida and California. It’s like how so many Russians own homes in Nice, Calabria and Sicily. For more than the past decade Russia is a country that has been haemorrhaging people. Almost anyone that can leave (that isn’t an insanely rich oligarch) is leaving. But they don’t want to go just anywhere, they want a complete change: culture, economics, weather.

  77. TheOtherJohn says:

    Sign Hainsey one year $6m per. A guy capable of 20 minutes a night against good opposition. Or Gilbert 3years at $10m total. Staggered: $5m, $3m, 2m.so if you had to move him in later years you could. Hainsey gets us to next year. Gilbert is still a decent D man. Neither of them cost anything but money.

    Or we can go into season with 3 out 4 needed top 4 D, with 7-8 guys in the 5-7/OKC slots. If it is the later, do not express surprise that we asked all of our D to play in a slot or two above where they can perform and bad things happen. That hasn’t worked over the last 3 years but maybe it will this year. If Belov is capable of top 4 minutes that addresses the problem but no one can say he’s capable of that today. Most prudent people have a Plan B if Plan A doesn’t work.

    The Oilers—not so much

  78. Hockeyman 99 says:

    Would Philly give up Coburn, Couturier and Mezaros for Hemmer ($2.5 million retained salary), N.Shultz and Potter with Musil or Gernat?

  79. Lowetide says:

    Hockeyman 99:
    Would Philly give up Coburn, Couturier and Mezaros for Hemmer ($2.5 million retained salary), N.Shultz and Potter with Musil or Gernat?

    No.

  80. Hockeyman 99 says:

    Lowetide,

    Coburn, Couturier and Mezaros for Hemmer ($2.5 million retained salary), N.Shultz($1.75million retained salary), Potter and 2014 1st rounder

  81. wheatnoil says:

    Hockeyman 99:
    Lowetide,

    Coburn, Couturier and Mezaros for Hemmer ($2.5 million retained salary), N.Shultz($1.75million retained salary), Potter and 2014 1st rounder

    If you assume the Oilers re-sign Gagner at $4.5mill, this trade puts the Oilers over the cap. Plus… I think it’s going to require a pretty large overpay to get Couturier out of Philly.

  82. justDOit says:

    wheatnoil,

    Well just taking that Mezaros contract off of Holmgren’s hands is going to require Philly to pay some sort of premium, but yeah – I can’t see Couturier leaving town for that offer.

  83. Lowetide says:

    Hockeyman 99:
    Lowetide,

    Coburn, Couturier and Mezaros for Hemmer ($2.5 million retained salary), N.Shultz($1.75million retained salary), Potter and 2014 1st rounder

    This isn’t close. Couturier is a perfect fit for the Oilers, Flyers would want one of the impact kids (rightly) in return. Coburn would be the top pairing anchor for EDM, that’s going to cost you Petry and a little. Mezsaros helps ease the pain and they’ll throw you a 2nd for it, but that’s miles from your deal. Miles.

  84. Rebilled says:

    Belov: “I am very happy I ended up with the Oilers. Of all of the clubs the Oilers showed the most interest. First of all, I think, it’s because the team needs a defenseman of the type I am… I heard that the Oilers GM Craig MacTavish came to the World Championships and watched me play. I like the fact that the team in Edmonton is turning out to be very promising. There are young stars, especially on offense, so the club has a big future.”

    Dmitry Chesnokov: “If I have to describe him in one sentence, I’d say that the past season, and considering it was a lockout season so there were a lot of NHL players in the KHL, he was probably, unofficially the best defenceman in the KHL. This is the best way to describe him. He was one of the brighter spots on the Russian national team at the World Championships. Everybody knows the … performance that team had, but he was one of the players who stood out. The amount of improvement he has shown the past few years along with his e maturity, I think Edmonton has got a great, great player.”

    This should be tweaked to look like THE BELOVED with the Edmonton skyline.

    http://www.movieposterdb.com/poster/dc23dd34

  85. Hockeyman 99 says:

    Couturier is hyper valued here as far as I am concerned. I’d take Schenn first but it would require moving Sam as I feel Couturier projects better as 3rd line centre right now. He is a bigger, slower Shawn Horcoff and he ran in place last year.

  86. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: This isn’t close. Couturier is a perfect fit for the Oilers, Flyers would want one of the impact kids (rightly) in return. Coburn would be the top pairing anchor for EDM, that’s going to cost you Petry and a little. Mezsaros helps ease the pain and they’ll throw you a 2nd for it, but that’s miles from your deal. Miles.

    Here’s the FO totals for PHI last year:

    Claude Giroux 1182
    Sean Couturier 553
    Brayden Schenn 453
    Maxime Talbot 192
    Ruslan Fedotenko 186
    Daniel Brière 135

    They have Giroux as the man, with Couturier and Schenn as 2 and 3 man.

    They added Lecavalier.

    They can play him on the wing, or C.

    If they play him at C, PHI still has a very strong C line up of Giroux, Lecavalier and Schenn.

    Couturier may be available if you take Mezaros and send a bunch back that doesn’t include a gifted kid.

    I.e Couturier and Mezaros for Smid + Marincin + 1st.

  87. Woodguy says:

    böökje: So, you saw him better, but what do the stats say?

    Wowy’s and V-Hammers and all of that good stuff?

    Please ask me again tomorrow (or the next day), and I’ll post it.

    Can’t right now due to not spending time in front of the computer, but its a good case.

  88. Woodguy says:

    Hockeyman 99:
    Couturier is hyper valued here as far as I am concerned. I’d take Schenn first but it would require moving Sam as I feel Couturier projects better as 3rd line centre right now. He is a bigger, slower Shawn Horcoff and he ran in place last year.

    Couturier would be a great 2C.

    Has offensive ability which isn’t on display right now due to the quality of his wingers and his 32.1% (!!!) offensive zone start.

    Basically he’s given Gordon type zone starts with similar linemates so scored at 1.14 5v5 clip last year, but is capable of much more. (he scored at 1.81 in his last full season 11/12, which is unreal with 40.3 ozone start, 16/16 among PHI forwards that year)

  89. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Woodguy: Couturier would be a great 2C.

    Has offensive ability which isn’t on display right now due to the quality of his wingers and his 32.1% (!!!) offensive zone start.

    Basically he’s given Gordon type zone starts with similar linemates so scored at 1.14 5v5 clip last year, but is capable of much more. (he scored at 1.81 in his last full season 11/12, which is unreal with 40.3 ozone start, 16/16 among PHI forwards that year)

    I’d wager he would outperform Hopkins if given the opportunity.

  90. G Money says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: I’d wager he would outperform Hopkins if given the opportunity.

    Thanks for the laugh! The image of ‘opportunity’ that sprung into my head was Tonya Harding’s ‘opportunity’ over Nancy Kerrigan. What a hoot, I’ll remember that one for a while, thanks Capn!

  91. Lowetide says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: I’d wager he would outperform Hopkins if given the opportunity.

    One day, we’ll post all the absolute crap you’ve posted in a long list. Suspect this will be close to the top of the list.

  92. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Lowetide: One day, we’ll post all the absolute crap you’ve posted in a long list. Suspect this will be close to the top of the list.

    Sure.

    How is your Paajarvi stuff working?

    Sam Gagner is Doug Gilmour?

    LOL.

  93. Lowetide says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Sure.

    How is your Paajarvi stuff working?

    Well. Doubt your boy Wellwood would have gotten such return. btw when does Gillis fly south and beg his goalie for forgiveness?

  94. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Lowetide: Well. Doubt your boy Wellwood would have gotten such return. btw when does Gillis fly south and beg his goalie for forgiveness?

    Tuesday.

    Wellwood is about a half million away from Gagner.

    And just as useful.

  95. commonfan14 says:

    Apropos of nothing, does anyone know if Rick Bell was at Molson House covering the Gretzky trade presser in ’88?

  96. G Money says:

    Late-breaking news (CP): An escaped patient from the Centennial Centre in Ponoka attempted to attack Ryan Nugent-Hopkins by striking him in the knee.

    The patient, who can be identified only by the letters “DSF”, refused to say anything to police except to scream “Wellwood!”. The patient calmed down only after mental health authorities threatened to remove his internet access. The patient remains under treatment, but medical personnel suggested that the long history of irrational behaviour and outlandish statements indicate that “DSF” has a tenuous grasp on reality at best, and suggested that the best they hoped for was a moderation of his bizarre behaviour.

  97. böökje says:

    Ignore

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