LAST CHANCE TEXACO

In all the fuss over the big league roster it’s easy to forget many of the summer’s transactions will have a major impact on the fall Barons. Aside from lefthanded defenders–there are 60–what DO the Barons look like ? Well, like the major league team they’re experiencing a period of transition.

It’s also true that some of the Barons–Taylor Fedun, Tyler Pitlick, Curtis Hamilton, Ryan Martindale, Cameron Abney–are looking at either getting buried despite their best efforts, or looking at professional extinction due to poor performance and injury. This coming season may be their last chance Texaco. And that can come very quickly–ask Teemu Hartikainen.

It was a short season for the Oilers (48 games), but the Barons didn’t really give a lot of useful at-bats to the big team when the opportunities came.

  •  Teemu Hartikainen 23, 1-2-3
  • Anton Lander 11, 0-1-1
  • Chris VandeVelde 11, 0-0-0
  • Yann Danis 3, 3.82 .881
  • Mark Arcobello 1, 0-0-0

The way Craig MacTavish is setting up his roster this summer, I’d expect we’ll see several NHL debuts for prospects in 2013-14. Ranging from most likely (Oscar Klefbom) to long shot (Tyler Pitlick) a new coach means everyone gets a look. Come ready from the opening whistle and get noticed!

OILERS ESTIMATED OPENING NIGHT LINEUP (23)

  • Goal (2): Devan Dubnyk (starter), Jason LaBarbera
  • Defense (8): Ladislav Smid-Jeff Petry; Andrew Ference-Justin Schultz;  Nick Schultz-Anton Belov; Phil Larsen, Corey Potter.
  • Center (4): Ryan Nugent-Hopkins;  Sam Gagner; Boyd Gordon; Anton Lander.
  • Left Wing (5): Taylor Hall; David Perron; Ryan Smyth; Ryan Jones; Jesse Joensuu.
  • Right Wing (4): Jordan Eberle; Nail Yakupov; Ales Hemsky; Mike Brown.

I’m estimating 8 defensemen because the roster kind of sets up that way. I expect MacT will add a Smithsen or Reasoner at some point down the line but for now this looks about right to my eye. Arcobello may be an opening night replacement for the Nuge.

BARONS ESTIMATED OPENING NIGHT LINEUP (26-ish)

  • Goal (2): Richard Bachman (starter), Olivier Roy
  • Defense (8): Martin Marincin-Taylor Fedun; Brandon Davidson-Oscar Klefbom; Brad Hunt-Martin Gernat; David Musil-Joey Leach
  • Center (5): Mark Arcobello; Andrew Miller; Will Acton; Travis Ewanyk; CJ Stretch
  • Left Wing (6): Toni Rajala; Ryan Hamilton; Ben Eager; Ryan Martindale; Curtis Hamilton; Kale Kessy
  • Right Wing(5): Derek Nesbitt; Matthew Ford; Tyler Pitlick; Erick Lizon; Cameron Abney

There’s usually someone missing when I do this, so speak up please and I’ll correct the list. The likely NHL cups of coffee (and you may see them in the RE series ahead) follow.

LIKELY BARON CALLUPS (in order)

  1. Oscar Klefbom: I’m not certain he starts in OKC, suspect the Oilers will try to make room for him if he plays well in training camp. Klefbom’s SEL experience likely puts him ahead of Marincin and others in the group. All of his arrows point in a good direction, I’d say it’s about 50% that this coming year turns out to be his rookie NHL season.
  2. Mark Arcobello: As things stand, he’s pretty much a lock for opening night with RNH’s recovery estimate. The Oilers may sign another center and that would impact his chances but right now this is pretty much a done deal until the Nuge returns.
  3. Ryan Hamilton: Has a nice chance in training camp and then beyond that he’s 4th in the pecking order that includes Smyth, Jones and Joensuu on the 3 and 4 line wings. A very strong chance he plays in the NHL at some point this coming season. Hamilton’s size, grit and willingness to play a physical game will get noticed. If I were his agent, I’d tell him to run over someone 8 seconds after the coaching staff hits the ice; just make sure it isn’t a guy making $6M.
  4. Richard Bachman: I think he has an outside chance of beating LaBarbera for the backup NHL job, but even if he doesn’t make it out of camp odds are a callup will occur sometime this season. It’s been years since the Oilers employed just two goalies in a season.
  5. Martin Marincin: LH D like Klefbom, but Marincin is more of a puck mover with some chaos and coverage issues that will be improved by experience. Still, since his skillset is not completely similar to Klefbom’s, he could see NHL action to replace Belov, Petry or Potter.
  6. Toni Rajala: I’m really looking forward to seeing him at training camp, suspect the Oilers will be able to play him in a couple of pre-season games with skilled men. Rajala’s a terrific prospect, the new coach is looking for people who can do good things and given an opportunity Rajala might just put himself in the mix.
  7. Andrew Miller: He has a nice NCAA resume and the Oilers C depth chart is rail thin. A strong early season in OKC could get move him above the event horizon, and MacT will be looking for troops to improve the lot of the club should things start slowly.
  8. Taylor Fedun: The problem is that Fedun’s window of opportunity is closing. This season, he begins with Klefbom, Marincin and 8 NHL guys that he has to climb over and after that there’s a bunch below trying to run him over. He’s the only RH D in the OKC mix, and for that alone he likely plays the entire Barons schedule. He hasn’t signed his qualifying offer yet, if I were him I’d have a look around.
  9. Will Acton: He’s on the list because 4line C is such a weak spot and he has his uses, plus is well known to the new head coach. Eakins: “We always know he’s always going to fore check hard, back pressure hard, block shots, and kill penalties.” That’s a very good description of what the Oilers need from their 4line C, and with Acton’s weakness (offense of any kind) matching Lander’s (very poor NHL boxcars) the opportunity for callup exists via injury or poor performance from Lander.
  10. Tyler Pitlick: This is his last Chance Texaco. A year ago at training camp he was going to get a shot. Todd Nelson: ”Tyler Pitlick, we feel that he’s a top-six guy and he’s going to get an opportunity to prove that and play in that role.” He has a career shooting percentage in OKC somewhere in the 5′s and he’s been terribly unlucky with injury. However, the opportunity remains, and in fact may be better than ever: the Edmonton Oilers don’t have an exceptional RW depth chart below the electric top 3. There’s a nice window here.

(Marincin photo by Rob Ferguson. All rights reserved).

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87 Responses to "LAST CHANCE TEXACO"

  1. RexLibris says:

    Looking over that OKC blueline…man that is one heck of a lot of NHL potential wrapped up there.

    It could be Todd Nelson’s dream come true and nightmare waiting in the wings if players like Marincin, Gernat, Musil, Klefbom and Fedun all graduate in the next two to three years.

    Ryan Hamilton is interesting, but ever since Alex Giroux I’m leery of these big, powerful AHL free-agents being available. Usually there’s a reason, and so long as the Oilers aren’t in a position where they would be relying on him to find top-six success or become a depth lynchpin (which I don’t believe they are) then it should work out alright. As I see it this Hamilton was brought in to push (up or out) Pitlick and the other Hamilton.

    This roster and off-season wasn’t perfect based on your shopping list from earlier, but I’m heartened that this much was done by a rookie GM. Learning on the job usually involves a few unkind trips to the woodshed and thus far that hasn’t really been the case (crosses fingers, knocks on wood).

  2. theres oil in virginia says:

    Any thoughts on the recent talk of Gilbert Brule possibly returning to town? 4 line C with AHL potential?

    I’m loving this “vacation” you’re on. I thought there wasn’t going to be a blog for a week. I see you meant the radio show, etc. Crisis averted.

  3. Lowetide says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    Any thoughts on the recent talk of Gilbert Brule possibly returning to town?4 line C with AHL potential?

    I’m loving this “vacation” you’re on.I thought there wasn’t going to be a blog for a week.I see you meant the radio show, etc.Crisis averted.

    I love blogging on holidays. I’m always up before the family (my wife: “you’re the only guy in the world who considers a vacation the ideal time to get up EARLIER!”) and have a cup of coffee, browse the world wide web and start mulling these Oilers.

    I don’t think Brule plays for the Oilers again.

  4. cdean says:

    Lowetide do you have the Oilers 50 player list? How close are they to full? According to your roster projections, there is 49, but I am unsure who has an AHL only contract that wouldn’t count against the 50 player list.

  5. murphy says:

    The fourth period who somehow moved themselves from eklund land rumorville to legitimate source are reporting kyle clifford is being shipped out of LA. No teams were mentioned except for montreal who are NOT in the running. He would be a good pick up for 3rd line LW but it scares me what MacT would give up for him. I twist in my chair picturing “oilers trade 1st round pick” or “oilers trade young defensemen martin M or martin G” etc etc.

    The Kings D also appears to be a logjam with 9 or 10 bodies, even if willie mitchell goes on LTIR, I wonder if you could see someone like Matt Greene shake loose.

  6. russ99 says:

    That Derek Nesbitt signing flew way, way under the wire. Nice pickup.

    I wonder if they still might bring Josh Green back on a minor-league deal, he’s been a nice player at the AHL level.

  7. wheatnoil says:

    cdean:
    Lowetide do you have the Oilers 50 player list?How close are they to full?According to your roster projections, there is 49, but I am unsure who has an AHL only contract that wouldn’t count against the 50 player list.

    I know you asked LT, but I just took a peek at Capgeek the other day and it looks like the Oilers are at 46 (if they sign Gagner & Fedun)

  8. Lowetide says:

    cdean:
    Lowetide do you have the Oilers 50 player list?How close are they to full?According to your roster projections, there is 49, but I am unsure who has an AHL only contract that wouldn’t count against the 50 player list.

    Lots of room, at 44 now with Fedun and Samwise to go. One more thing MacT does better than inertia.

    http://www.capgeek.com/oilers/reserve-list/

  9. markasread1199 says:

    Wait? What? Did you say Reasoner?

  10. Radman says:

    Lowetide: I love blogging on holidays. I’m always up before the family (my wife: “you’re the only guy in the world who considers a vacation the ideal time to get up EARLIER!”) and have a cup of coffee, browse the world wide web and start mulling these Oilers. I don’t think Brule plays for the Oilers again.

    LT, you are my brother. I do the same thing and get the same eyeroll at the lake. Here’s to watching the sunrise with a coffee and some Oiler math !!

  11. godot10 says:

    murphy:

    The Kings D also appears to be a logjam with 9 or 10 bodies, even if willie mitchell goes on LTIR, I wonder if you could see someone like Matt Greene shake loose.

    No, to be a contending team, your D has to be nine or ten deep. A couple of those contracts are veterans earning less than $900K who can be sent to the minors with very little risk of being claimed on waivers.

    But in the Oiler blogosphere, 4 experienced veteran defensemen is too many and one (Nick Schultz) should have been shipped out of town yesterday already.

    Note also that on a contending team, Colin Fraser is a more than adequate 4th line centre, but in the Oiler blogosphere, the thought of Lander as a 4th line centre is a disaster. Lombardi would swap Fraser for Lander 8 days a week.

  12. Lowetide says:

    murphy:
    The fourth period who somehow moved themselves from eklund land rumorville to legitimate source are reporting kyle clifford is being shipped out of LA. No teams were mentioned except for montreal who are NOT in the running. He would be a good pick up for 3rd line LW but it scares me what MacT would give up for him. I twist in my chair picturing “oilers trade 1st round pick” or “oilers trade young defensemen martin M or martin G” etc etc.

    The Kings D also appears to be a logjam with 9 or 10 bodies, even if willie mitchell goes on LTIR, I wonder if you could see someone like Matt Greene shake loose.

    Clifford would be interesting, Oilers don’t need Greene. It would be interesting to see who goes back, my guess would be a pick as the only area of real strength for the Oilers (d) is also an area of strength for the Kings.

    Lombardi. Man, he’s got it going on.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Radman: LT, you are my brother. I do the same thing and get the same eyeroll at the lake. Here’s to watching the sunrise with a coffee and some Oiler math !!

    i’ve been meaning to ask you, do you think Jones has a better year in 13-14? I’m sure that eye injury scared the hell out of him, hopefully a full range etc now.

  14. regwald says:

    I think it is a mistake for MacT to start the season with Arcobello as one of the four starting centers. The depth there is so razor thin, he has to add another center.

    Unless the theory is Hall becomes Messier-lite and they move him to center.

  15. wheatnoil says:

    godot10:
    Note also that on a contending team, Colin Fraser is a more than adequate 4th line centre, but in the Oiler blogosphere, the thought of Lander as a 4th line centre is a disaster.Lombardi would swap Fraser for Lander 8 days a week.

    In fairness, the Oilers don’t have the Kings depth at center. Personally, I’d be fine with Lander getting a shot at 4C (though it’d be better if he was in the AHL) if there was one or two other bodies around if he struggled. Right now, if Lander struggles, they’re down to Acton / Arcobello / Miller. If there’s an injury on top of it… now that’s trouble. Fraser, on the other hand, has a long history of playing 4C. You know what you’re getting from him.

  16. Radman says:

    Lowetide,

    I heard him interviewed, and he now wears a contact lens. He said his visual acuity is better than before, The issue with that kind of injury , is that it can affect your visual field meaning he could have some blind spots potentially. Whole range from none to significant. Jonesy said in the interview his vision is fine which is great. The biggest barrier might be psychological in terms of playing physical. He strikes me like he has something to prove to himself and others. Suspect he has a good year. You ?

  17. Lowetide says:

    Radman:
    Lowetide,

    I heard him interviewed, and he now wears a contact lens. He said his visual acuity is better than before, The issue with that kind of injury , is that it can affect your visual field meaning he could have some blind spots potentially. Whole range from none to significant.Jonesy said in the interview his vision is fine which is great. The biggest barrier might be psychological in terms of playing physical. He strikes me like he has something to prove to himself and others. Suspect he has a good year. You ?

    Depends on role. I think they got him for scoring on the secondary lines–a good bet–but the defensive responsibilities on the Gordon line will be significant–zone starts, etc. That’s a tough job, don’t know if he’ll handle it well. I suspect MacT originally had a tough minutes winger in mind, but Hemsky staying changes the line’s makeup.

  18. böökje says:

    Lowetide: I love blogging on holidays. I’m always up before the family (my wife: “you’re the only guy in the world who considers a vacation the ideal time to get up EARLIER!”) and have a cup of coffee, browse the world wide web and start mulling these Oilers.

    I don’t think Brule plays for the Oilers again.

    I get up earlier on vacation as well though I don’t know your wife.

    When i was in Venice, I would get up at 4am and wander the city for a few hours. Tremendous experience. The city is silent with only the birds and a few delivery people and shop owners out. It’s an entirely different experience from the crowded daytime. I HIGHLY recommend doing this if you visit Venice.

  19. Radman says:

    Lowetide,

    My guess is he starts on the 4th line, esp if Hemmer stays. My guess is Smytty get the LW on that 3rd line.
    Jones will get a fair bit of PK time. I hope that defined role allows him time to get his confidence back. With time, I could see his role change, and him sliding into the top 9. He scores the kind of goals the Oil need more of. I was happy with the signing. Still am.

  20. böökje says:

    Lowetide: i’ve been meaning to ask you, do you think Jones has a better year in 13-14? I’m sure that eye injury scared the hell out of him, hopefully a full range etc now.

    I am as confident that Jones will return to form as I was that Whitney’s ankle would be improved last year. I can’t be wrong twice – can I?

  21. lance says:

    Love being up before the world. I’ve mostly adopted your rule of not posting until the first coffee is done, and I think we’re all generally better off.

    Sam may be wise to go to arbitration and take the one year deal, and then test his market as a UFA.

    Oilers may be wise to give Sam the Malhotra starts, slot Gordon with Yak and Perron, then super cherry mins to Arco/Nuge with the (already signed) Hall and Ebs.

    Another new coach’s system plus the d corp breaking multiple players. I sense almost no chance for an 8th spot near Christmas. To close ground after the all star break is nearly impossible for any team let alone one that requires about 8 guys to post their best (or only) career numbers.

    I’d call this season a write off and instead plan to set up the finances. #1. Break Sam. Destroy his confidence through nasty zone starts and terrible running mates. Then midseason land an important financial win by offering him a 4M x 6 +4yNTC plus a return to the soft parade. Then before Nuge gets rolling, offer him the 6×6, and if he doesn’t sign, he already knows he’s going straight to sam’s old spot, and Belanger’s before sam.

    There is nothing in stone about Taylor’s being max salary, if they can get Nuge there plus Sam on a 4×6, and give kid defenders a year to muck around, that to me would be a year well spent.

  22. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “There’s usually someone missing when I do this, so speak up please and I’ll correct the list”

    I can only think of this new guy (who is unsigned I think)

    http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/6/oilers-trade-kyle-bigos-for-lee-moffie

  23. nelson88 says:

    I’m old school (and old) so fully subscribe to the “you earn it” ethos. Having said that I hope they give Martindale some quality line mates at camp and perhaps even some exhibition games at 2C with RNH’s injury.

    Scouting report. Big bodied C (has he switched to LW?) with skill and face-off ability but mediocre skating and poor consistency. Put him with some skilled wingers (Yak and Perron) like he had in the OHL and see if you can light a fire under him. What do you have to lose and if it works you fill a gaping hole in the lineup (potential 2C) particularly if they don’t get Sam signed long term.

  24. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    LT,

    I’m sure someone has asked this before, but I can’t recall the conversation:

    Mar. 29: Oilers trade Rieder for Kessy

    Apr. 15: Oilers fire Tambo

    Does MacT make that trade? I would guess MacT — given his discussion of skill and higher upside — would have stuck it out with Rieder and not chasing another depth facepuncher.

    (NB: I’m not saying in anyway that the Rieder trade led to Tambo’s firing).

  25. theres oil in virginia says:

    böökje: I am as confident that Jones will return to form as I was that Whitney’s ankle would be improved last year.I can’t be wrong twice – can I?

    Alright Moriarty.
    ;)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ

  26. linkfromhyrule says:

    the summer is bittersweet in a sense here in Alberta. On the one hand there isn’t 2 feet of snow on the ground, but on the other it represents 3 long months without hockey :/

    Although, maybe it’s a good thing macT has lots of time to fix the center depth on this team.. Any injuries to a center and it’ll be the 9 game road trip sans horcoff all over again

  27. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Alright Moriarty.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuStsFW4EmQ

    What a weird, pasted together movie.

    I think you probably had to watch it either when it first came out or as a kid on a winter saturday morning to appreciate it.

    I watched it two years ago (I’m in my 30s) and I can safely say that the humor didn’t find a safe landing and I was unpleasantly bored by the whole experience.

  28. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    LT,

    I’m sure someone has asked this before, but I can’t recall the conversation:

    Mar. 29: Oilers trade Rieder for Kessy

    Apr. 15: Oilers fire Tambo

    Does MacT make that trade? I would guess MacT — given his discussion of skill and higher upside — would have stuck it out with Rieder and not chasing another depth facepuncher.

    (NB: I’m not saying in anyway that the Rieder trade led to Tambo’s firing).

    Tough to say. I’m not certain the deal would have happened without the blessing of the organization, but do believe Tambellini’s failure to launch on the Bishop trade had a major impact on his firing. So, probably didn’t help.

  29. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: What a weird, pasted together movie.

    I think you probably had to watch it either when it first came out or as a kid on a winter saturday morning to appreciate it.

    I watched it two years ago (I’m in my 30s) and I can safely say that the humor didn’t find a safe landing and I was unpleasantly bored by the whole experience.

    Ha. I think you may be right. I watched it as a teenager, probably late night. I haven’t watched it yet as an adult, but I wonder if it’s in the “grand american tradition” of glorifying war. Probably so. Either way, the Oddball character sticks in my memory, and we often use the phrase “quit hittin’ me with those negative waves” whenever we’re about to undertake a task that is sure to fail at least once. I don’t get to see many movies these days, but I’m thinking I may get a chance to watch more movies when my son is a bit older. I’ll be sure to try that one again when those days arrive.

    War movies I do appreciate as an adult are now more in the mold of “The Americanization of Emily”, and there’s one I can never remember where near the end, a young German woman is singing in a German bar filled with American soldiers on leave. She starts singing and they’re all hooting and hollering, and by the end of the song, they’re all crying. Outside, the commander tells an officer it’s back to the front tomorrow.

  30. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Ha.I think you may be right.I watched it as a teenager, probably late night.I haven’t watched it yet as an adult, but I wonder if it’s in the “grand american tradition” of glorifying war.Probably so.Either way, the Oddball character sticks in my memory, and we often use the phrase “quit hittin’ me with those negative waves” whenever we’re about to undertake a task that is sure to fail at least once.I don’t get to see many movies these days, but I’m thinking I may get a chance to watch more movies when my son is a bit older.I’ll be sure to try that one again when those days arrive.

    War movies I do appreciate as an adult are now more in the mold of “The Americanization of Emily”, and there’s one I can never remember where near the end, a young German woman is singing in a German bar filled with American soldiers on leave.She starts singing and they’re all hooting and hollering, and by the end of the song, they’re all crying.Outside, the commander tells an officer it’s back to the front tomorrow.

    I believe you are refering to Paths of Glory. Kubrick. Great Flic.

    The song “La Marseillaise”, the French national anthem is also key to two of Renoir’s great films, “The Grande Illusion” and, of course, “”La Marseillaise”

  31. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    the scene, I believe:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ifRA0Kj-8

    I see I had the wrong song though… she sings a German Ballad, “Der treue Hussar” The Faithful Solider

    La Marseillaise opens the film… whoops… You suck memory!

  32. Jesse says:

    Yesterday on OilersNow, Stauffer was saying that Ference is defenitely going to get a letter, and that he’ll probably get the C.

    So just to recap…
    Ference is (slightly) overpaid
    Has too long of term
    His play will likely decline a bit due to age
    He’ll be the captain.

    Looks like we’ve found our new Horcoff everybody! The poor guy’s going to be a lightning rod.

  33. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Tough to say. I’m not certain the deal would have happened without the blessing of the organization, but do believe Tambellini’s failure to launch on the Bishop trade had a major impact on his firing. So, probably didn’t help.

    The thought experiment on that trade leads down interesting paths. Trading skill for facepunching depth has Tambo all over it. Stocking up on skill with maximal upside sounds exactly like MacT’s MO.

    I can easily imagine KL green-lighting the trade though.

    I don’t think MacT does that deal and I’d love to hear his take on it. He won’t speak about it — not only because in the grand scheme of things it is a very minor item… but also he’d probably have to run down one of his players.

  34. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Jesse:
    Yesterday on OilersNow, Stauffer was saying that Ference is defenitely going to get a letter, and that he’ll probably get the C.

    So just to recap…
    Ference is (slightly) overpaid
    Has too long of term
    His play will likely decline a bit due to age
    He’ll be the captain.

    Looks like we’ve found our new Horcoff everybody! The poor guy’s going to be a lightning rod.

    Gregor has been pushing the Ference for Captain routine for a while now too.

    I think the same instinct that buys into “size” also tends to overvalue “experience” (of the “intangible” quality, i.e., not simply games played and individual success, but “being part of a winning spirit” etc.)

    After snubbing Smid with the N. Schultz A, I think giving Ference the C right off the bat is batty.

    It should be:

    Hall C
    Eberle A
    Smid A

  35. FastOil says:

    Lowetide: i’ve been meaning to ask you, do you think Jones has a better year in 13-14? I’m sure that eye injury scared the hell out of him, hopefully a full range etc now.

    I read the Gregor interview with Jones and he said the words “new normal”. Not what I wanted to read. He sure is a personable guy and says the right things, hopefully he is able to do what he says needs to be done, especially winning battles.

  36. linkfromhyrule says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Gregor has been pushing the Ference for Captain routine for a while now too.

    I think the same instinct that buys into “size” also tends to overvalue “experience” (of the “intangible” quality, i.e., not simply games played and individual success, but “being part of a winning spirit” etc.)

    After snubbing Smid with the N. Schultz A, I think giving Ference the C right off the bat is batty.

    It should be:

    Hall C
    Eberle A
    Smid A

    It seems disrespectful to the players who have put in the time to give a letter to a player that has never played a game for the Oilers. IMO the letter, and the respect that comes with it, is something that needs to be earned, and not simply awarded arbitrarily because the guy has won the Stanley cup

  37. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    LT!

    I can’t believe this didn’t occur to me before… you are subtly recalling your Springsteen series… that list is basically this:

    “The highways jammed with broken heroes on a LAST CHANCE power drive”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3t9SfrfDZM

  38. Jesse says:

    linkfromhyrule: It seems disrespectful to the players who have put in the time to give a letter to a player that has never played a game for the Oilers. IMO the letter, and the respect that comes with it, is something that needs to be earned, and not simply awarded arbitrarily because the guy has won the Stanley cup

    Yeah, I definitely get that thinking, and that makes it feel funny to me too. On the other hand, while I absolutely love Hall and do think he’ll be the eventual captain, I wonder if there has been a key player that has emerged from the young cluster as a “clear” candidate for this genereation’s Captain. Call me crazy, but Sam Gagner seems to be a guy that is a real respected player in the locker room. First guy to call Yak when he was drafted, we’re always hearing about his incredible work ethic. I’d be pretty choked if he didn’t at least get an A.

    He does seem to be a guy that the Oilers would always like the option to deal though, so maybe that would stop them from giving him a letter. Heck that might be what’s stalling the contract talks (NMC).

  39. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Awesome! Thanks for the refresher. I still haven’t seen “Paths of Glory” all the way through. It’s on the list.

    If you think your memory sucks, you try mine out for a…wait, what was I saying?

  40. Hammers says:

    Most of us feel 8 “D” will be carried but only due to lack of that center/winger we really need . Still expecting Reasoner to be added as 13-14 guy unless McT pulls the Hemsky or N.Schultz trade . 5 days left to sign Gags.

  41. Bag of Pucks says:

    If Hall doesn’t get the C, I hope it’s because they’re moving him to Centre and didn’t want to give him the added pressure of the Captaincy at the same time.

    If he stays at LW, I see no reason not to give him the C. He drives the play, says all the right things to the press and public, and clearly has the respect of his peers in the dressing room. It’s been a long time since the best player on this team wore the C. Would be nice to see it again.

  42. Lowetide says:

    Hammers:
    Most of us feel 8 “D” will be carried but only due to lack of that center/winger we really need . Still expecting Reasoner to be added as 13-14 guy unless McT pulls the Hemsky or N.Schultz trade . 5 days left to sign Gags.

    Which is what I said:

    I’m estimating 8 defensemen because the roster kind of sets up that way. I expect MacT will add a Smithsen or Reasoner at some point down the line but for now this looks about right to my eye. Arcobello may be an opening night replacement for the Nuge.

  43. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Hammers,

    Lowetide: Defense (8): Ladislav Smid-Jeff Petry; Andrew Ference-Justin Schultz;  Nick Schultz-Anton Belov; Phil Larsen, Corey Potter.

    I wonder how big a role carrying 8D will be played by the members of the 8 and their status.

    “Defense (8): Ladislav Smid-Jeff Petry; Andrew Ference-Justin Schultz; Nick Schultz-Anton Belov; Phil Larsen, Corey Potter.”

    By this I mean… I think we are more likely to carry 8, if our 8th D is in the Potter category, i.e., an established, if limited, vet who doesn’t need playing time to develop.

    The 8th D, or 14th forward, IMO should never be a prospect, even one well down the road, i.e., a Larson or Lander type.

    I suspect whether they carry 8D or 14F will depend on the status of the bottom end of each category.

  44. Dominoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Gregor has been pushing the Ference for Captain routine for a while now too.

    I think the same instinct that buys into “size” also tends to overvalue “experience” (of the “intangible” quality, i.e., not simply games played and individual success, but “being part of a winning spirit” etc.)

    After snubbing Smid with the N. Schultz A, I think giving Ference the C right off the bat is batty.

    It should be:

    Hall C
    Eberle A
    Smid A

    Thanks for posting this, so I can simply +1, rather than put out some negative waves!.. the only difference I would suggest is gagner w an A, but big time dependent on how these contract neg go, w eberle next in line.. time to have a star player as the C!..

  45. misfit says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Hammers,

    I wonder how big a role carrying 8D will be played by the members of the 8 and their status.

    “Defense (8): Ladislav Smid-Jeff Petry; Andrew Ference-Justin Schultz;Nick Schultz-Anton Belov; Phil Larsen, Corey Potter.”

    By this I mean… I think we are more likely to carry 8, if our 8th D is in the Potter category, i.e., an established, if limited, vet who doesn’t need playing time to develop.

    The 8th D, or 14th forward, IMO should never be a prospect, even one well down the road, i.e., a Larson or Lander type.

    I suspect whether they carry 8D or 14F will depend on the status of the bottom end of each category.

    I just hope they go with 14F because I would prefer it if Brown was the 13/14 F and I think you should always have a spare C on the roster as well.

  46. dessert1111 says:

    The Oilers have some interesting options if Hemsky stays until trade deadilne.

    How about a 3A line of Jones – Arcobello – Hemsky and 3B line of Smyth – Gordon – Joensuu?

    3A could score against lesser opposition and have average zone starts; 3B could take on tough zone starts and tough competition, depending on how Joensuu handles it and Smyth holds up. Lander and/or Hamilton could replace those wingers if necessary.

    Hemsky and Jones, who at this point are locks for roster spots imo, are better suited in a more offensive role. Why not give them an offensive centre and give Gordon wingers who are more defense-oriented?

    It’s still my preference they pick up another centre and another winger by the way.

  47. Ribs says:

    böökje:
    This is very much how I envision LT on vacation (of course replacing the Canucks logo with an Oilers Logo)

    I think you just found “Off The Grid” Pat! He’s more the wandering around town sloshed type.

  48. rickithebear says:

    GF versus GA +/- to Even.
    Oiler forwards now and in the past
    Perron +35% replaced MP +5%
    Hall +17%
    Eberle +16%
    RNH +14%
    Gordon +11% replaced horcoff -22%
    Yakupov +5%
    Joensuu +5% replaces Petrell’s -75%
    Gagner -6%
    Smyth -9%
    Hemsky -12%
    Jones -13%
    Smithson -46% out
    Belanger -58% out
    Harti -91% out

    Help!
    Lander -130%
    Eager -150%
    Brown – 175%

    UFA:
    Boyes +20% +41% with Perron
    Grabovski +26% 53% FO
    Wellwood +18% 53% FO
    Latendrese +5%
    raymond +4% +50% with Wellwood
    Mueller -28%
    Kobasew -46%
    Steckel – 63%

  49. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    the scene, I believe:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ifRA0Kj-8

    I see I had the wrong song though… she sings a German Ballad, “Der treue Hussar” The Faithful Solider

    La Marseillaise opens the film… whoops… You suck memory!

    Clearly, I’ve not yet seen much of that movie, as a brief investigation at IMDB reveals that it’s French soldiers during WWI. Awesome scene, room gets “dusty” every time.

  50. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Lowetide: the defensive responsibilities on the Gordon line will be significant–zone starts, etc. That’s a tough job, don’t know if he’ll handle it well.

    Jones is used to tough zone starts. In 2011-12 he had the toughest ZS of any winger on the team, & in 2013 he was 2nd or 3rd toughest depending on how you view Smyth’s status as a sometimes-C.

    In the first of those two years Jones also faced tough comp, a lot of it on a line with Horcoff & Smyth in what would be a similar role for Gordon’s line. Superficially he did pretty OK with that assignment, although of course we then need to apply Jones’ Law which states that anything bad that happened when Jones was on the ice was entirely his fault, while anything good that happened was due to his great linemates coming through despite the drag of a boat anchor in their midst.

    /snark

  51. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    misfit: I just hope they go with 14F because I would prefer it if Brown was the 13/14 F and I think you should always have a spare C on the roster as well.

    couldn’t agree more.

    That bascially means, though one D is leaving town… and if it’s an internal option you have to think it means one of Larson/Potter is playing in OKC next year clogging up the prospect pool.

    dessert1111: How about a 3A line of Jones – Arcobello – Hemsky and 3B line of Smyth – Gordon – Joensuu?

    I wonder if Eakins — and his penchant for running multiple plays like in Football — would try such a thing, ie., very flexible lines in-game…

  52. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Lowetide: the defensive responsibilities on the Gordon line will be significant–zone starts, etc. That’s a tough job, don’t know if he’ll handle it well.
    Jones is used to tough zone starts. In 2011-12 he had the toughest ZS of any winger on the team, & in 2013 he was 2nd or 3rd toughest depending on how you view Smyth’s status as a sometimes-C.
    In the first of those two years Jones also faced tough comp, a lot of it on a line with Horcoff & Smyth in what would be a similar role for Gordon’s line. Superficially he did pretty OK with that assignment, although of course we then need to apply Jones’ Law which states that anything bad that happened when Jones was on the ice was entirely his fault, while anything good that happened was due to his great linemates coming through despite the drag of a boat anchor in their midst.
    /snark

    Waiting for WG to show up so we can get this damn Jones-fight really cooking!

  53. Lowetide says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Jones is used to tough zone starts. In 2011-12 he had the toughest ZS of any winger on the team, & in 2013 he was 2nd or 3rd toughest depending on how you view Smyth’s status as a sometimes-C.

    In the first of those two years Jones also faced tough comp, a lot of it on a line with Horcoff & Smyth in what would be a similar role for Gordon’s line. Superficially he did pretty OK with that assignment, although of course we then need to apply Jones’ Law which states that anything bad that happened when Jones was on the ice was entirely his fault, while anything good that happened was due to his great linemates coming through despite the drag of a boat anchor in their midst.

    /snark

    Hahaha. Good stuff, Bruce. Let me ask you: are you comfortable with a Gordon-Jones-Hemsky line as a tough minutes, severe zone start line? If not, why? If so, excellent!

  54. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Clearly, I’ve not yet seen much of that movie, as a brief investigation at IMDB reveals that it’s French soldiers during WWI.Awesome scene, room gets “dusty” every time.

    It’s well worth a viewing, though it clearly ranks 3rd of 3 in the “best Kubrick films: War category” after “Dr. Strangelove” and “Full Metal Jacket”

    ….which is a very talented field of competition.

    Like his other early films, genre flics like Spartacus, Killer’s Kiss and The Killing… Paths of Glory lacks the stylistic touches, layered meanings and nuanced approach to character and story telling that you find in his mature works.

    Which isn’t to say it’s bad. Not by a long shot.

  55. Numenius says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Gregor has been pushing the Ference for Captain routine for a while now too.

    I think the same instinct that buys into “size” also tends to overvalue “experience” (of the “intangible” quality, i.e., not simply games played and individual success, but “being part of a winning spirit” etc.)

    After snubbing Smid with the N. Schultz A, I think giving Ference the C right off the bat is batty.

    It should be:

    Hall C
    Eberle A
    Smid A

    It wouldn’t be just “experience” in this sense of the word that would get Ference the C. Marchand also has lots of this “experience” and he’d never get the C if we had him. Obviously there’s something more, let’s call them “leadership qualities”, e.g. maturity, compete/drive to succeed, respect of other players/someone they look up to, sets a good example, well-spoken, highly effective at his role on the team…

    To me, Hall isn’t quite there yet (esp. due to maturity, still a few too many rough edges) and Ference is. The fact that Ference hasn’t played in Edm is a factor, true, but it’s only a small one, especially given the huge turnover this summer and the fact that there are no other solid candidates.

    I’d be perfectly happy with Ference at C.

  56. OilLeak says:

    I’m still waiting on the good that Jones actually brings. The guy cheats for offense, is terrible defensively and gets his head beaten in by the dregs. Jones is terrible so I guess he’s a perfect fit for the Oilers.

  57. Numenius says:

    Jesse:
    Yesterday on OilersNow, Stauffer was saying that Ference is defenitely going to get a letter, and that he’ll probably get the C.

    So just to recap…
    Ference is (slightly) overpaid
    Has too long of term
    His play will likely decline a bit due to age
    He’ll be the captain.

    Looks like we’ve found our new Horcoff everybody! The poor guy’s going to be a lightning rod.

    I sure hope not.

    If fans can’t grow up and stop complaining about such a minor overpay in contract and term (as it is in Ference’s case), then we deserve stay in the basement.

  58. linkfromhyrule says:

    OilLeak:
    I’m still waiting on the good that Jones actually brings. The guy cheats for offense, is terrible defensively and gets his head beaten in by the dregs.Jones is terrible so I guess he’s a perfect fit for the Oilers.

    would you care to back up your statement with actual stats instead of just rhetoric?

  59. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Numenius: It wouldn’t be just “experience” in this sense of the word that would get Ference the C. Marchand also has lots of this “experience” and he’d never get the C if we had him. Obviously there’s something more, let’s call them “leadership qualities”, e.g. maturity, compete/drive to succeed, respect of other players/someone they look up to, sets a good example, well-spoken, highly effective at his role on the team…

    To me, Hall isn’t quite there yet (esp. due to maturity, still a few too many rough edges) and Ference is. The fact that Ference hasn’t played in Edm is a factor, true, but it’s only a small one, especially given the huge turnover this summer and the fact that there are no other solid candidates.

    I’d be perfectly happy with Ference at C.

    I think you missed the part where I tried to distinguish what people mean when they say “experience” in reference to various “winners” of a particular stripe and others who have simply played the games. I probably wasn’t very clear… which I will now blame on the amorphous nature of the subject matter.

    These are “intangible” factors that are actually valuable. I don’t discount them. Nor do I discount size, character etc.

    I do however, have serious qualms about how one might actually measure these factors relative to other players, how much they actually contribute to success and how highly they tend to be regarded by a certain class of hockey commentator.

    That said, it wouldn’t be the end of the world. I don’t think Hall or Ference are going to act much differently based on their letter or lackthereof.

  60. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Lowetide: Hahaha. Good stuff, Bruce. Let me ask you: are you comfortable with a Gordon-Jones-Hemsky line as a tough minutes, severe zone start line? If not, why? If so, excellent!

    I’m not, because of Hemsky’s Law that states unequivocally that Ales is tough to play with.

  61. Bruce McCurdy says:

    OilLeak:
    I’m still waiting on the good that Jones actually brings. The guy cheats for offense, is terrible defensively and gets his head beaten in by the dregs.Jones is terrible so I guess he’s a perfect fit for the Oilers.

    This is the alternate version of Jones’ Law. Off with his head!

  62. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Numenius: I sure hope not.

    If fans can’t grow up and stop complaining about such a minor overpay in contract and term (as it is in Ference’s case), then we deserve stay in the basement.

    I think a lot of hyperbole was tossed around after the Ference signing. Myself included.

    But I think reasonable people can argue about all these deals (that’s what we are hear for, right?) and I think getting on the right side of market value is way more important to future oiler success than fan griping about deals.

    At any rate, at 34 a 4 year deal with a NMC isn’t something I would causally dismiss criticism over. It’s a huge gamble that the final 2 years of that deal will involve an effective player.

  63. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bruce McCurdy: I’m not, because of Hemsky’s Law that states unequivocally that Ales is tough to play with.

    but, but… there was that thing that Hall said once that no one can quite seem to find or remember accurately that said “Alice is terrible!”

  64. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: It’s well worth a viewing, though it clearly ranks 3rd of 3 in the “best Kubrick films: War category” after “Dr. Strangelove” and “Full Metal Jacket”….which is a very talented field of competition.Like his other early films, genre flics like Spartacus, Killer’s Kiss and The Killing… Paths of Glory lacks the stylistic touches, layered meanings and nuanced approach to character and story telling that you find in his mature works. Which isn’t to say it’s bad. Not by a long shot.

    First off, Kubrick disowned Spartacus on completion and never considered it to be a movie of his. And rightly, as it is simplistic, almost puerile… A combination of Manichaeistic propaganda and Star Vehicle. He would never work for Hollywood again.

    Secondly, “character” as it is normally understood, and “storytelling” as it is normally understood, were never really concerns for Kubrick. That can be seen by the outrage that the authors (whose works he leveraged for his own purposes, with the exception of Nabokov, who collaborated with Kubrick on Lolita, and probably the only extant work at the time that would suit Kubrick for his exploration of narration, without taking on Proust or Finnegan’s Wake) expressed at his “adaptations”… in that Kubrick never intended them to be adaptations…. And to anyone who has read the books, they are so obviously (and wonderfully) not faithful to the text.

  65. Jordan says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: but, but… there was that thing that Hall said once that no one can quite seem to find or remember accurately that said “Alice is terrible!”

    Oh you must mean this quote:

    Taylor Hall‏ (@hallsy04) Awesome to see Hemmer stay an Oiler!!

    …wait a second…

  66. Jordan says:

    Just because Edmonton and the Oilers need more good publicity…

    Taylor Hall ‏@hallsy04 15 Jul
    Days like this in Ontario are when I miss the snow and Edmonton in the winter #sauna #feelslike42

  67. Bruce McCurdy says:

    OilLeak:
    I’m still waiting on the good that Jones actually brings. The guy cheats for offense, is terrible defensively and gets his head beaten in by the dregs.Jones is terrible so I guess he’s a perfect fit for the Oilers.

    Of the 14 forwards who played half the season (24+ games), Jones finished FIRST on the Oilers for fewest goals against per 60 at just 1.78, & tied for 4th in +/- per 60 at break-even. He ranked 4th in Corsi REL & 4th in shots differential. This playing against & WITH dregs (the latter usually being much the bigger factor for stats like Corsi).

    If it wasn’t for the visual evidence — all that snow on his uniform (from falling down all the time) & the blue paint on his skate blades (from hanging around at the far blueline) — I would almost think he wasn’t getting his head beat in.

  68. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: First off, Kubrick disowned Spartacus on completion and never considered it to be a movie of his.And rightly, as it is simplistic, almost puerile…A combination of Manichaeistic propaganda and Star Vehicle.He would never work for Hollywood again.

    Secondly, “character” as it is normally understood, and “storytelling” as it is normally understood, were never really concerns for Kubrick.That can be seen by the outrage that the authors (whose works he leveraged for his own purposes,with the exception of Nabokov, who collaborated with Kubrick on Lolita, and probably the only extant work at the time that would suit Kubrick for his exploration of narration, without taking on Proust or Finnegan’s Wake) expressed at his “adaptations”… in that Kubrick never intended them to be adaptations…. And to anyone who has read the books, they are so obviously (and wonderfully) not faithful to the text.

    1. Many artists “disown” parts or all of their oeuvre. Kafka asked his friend and literary agent to burn all his works. Should we not read them, or not attribute them to him?

    “Authorship” is an especially thorny issue. Even in the (relatively speaking) soloist category of a Novel, or work of non-fiction, the question is far reaching evoking questions of “reliability” “textual history and transmission” “intentional fallacy” etc.

    At any rate, I have no idea how this relates to the fact that Spartacus belongs to his early works, which are all genre flics and all lack the “Kubrick Touch” if you will. Unless, of course, you simply mean to discount his contribution to the film entirely, which doesn’t make much sense.

    2. I think you have a very narrow understanding of “character” and “storytelling” and I have no idea how adaption relates at all.

    “O Brother where art thou” is a radical departure from “the Odyssey” but it is not because of that departure devoid of “character” and “storytelling.”

  69. theres oil in virginia says:

    linkfromhyrule: would you care to back up your statement with actual stats instead of just rhetoric?

    How about someone just pointing to a game where Jones left the zone early and about what time and what period he did it. Something…just get me close and I’ll find it. I’ve watched nearly every (sometimes agonizing) minute of Oilers hockey for about the last 3 seasons. I’ve read all of McCurdy et al.’s player grades the last season or two. I don’t recall thinking: “there goes Jones again, leaving the zone early” and I don’t recall reading it in the grades either.

    Also, how about an occasion where Nick Schultz bailed out Justin Schultz? I’ve seen the opposite, but not that.

  70. theres oil in virginia says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    If it wasn’t for the visual evidence — all that snow on his uniform (from falling down all the time) & the blue paint on his skate blades (from hanging around at the far blueline) — I would almost think he wasn’t getting his head beat in.

    Was that ‘snark’-asm too, or do you think he leaves the zone early as well?

  71. G Money says:

    Bruce McCurdy: If it wasn’t for the visual evidence — all that snow on his uniform (from falling down all the time) & the blue paint on his skate blades (from hanging around at the far blueline) — I would almost think he wasn’t getting his head beat in.

    Good thing Jones doesn’t play in Florida, people have been shot with less evidence!

  72. Zipdot says:

    G Money: Good thing Jones doesn’t play in Florida, people have been shot with less evidence!

    Evidence is for courts of law, not gunmen.

  73. theres oil in virginia says:

    G Money: Good thing Jones doesn’t play in Florida, people have been shot with less evidence!

    Don’t know if y’all are familiar with this, but a friend pointed it out to me:

    https://twitter.com/_FloridaMan

  74. G Money says:

    Evidence:
    1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
    2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
    3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

    Applies to hockey as much as it does to Florida – they both involve a lot of shooting…

  75. G Money says:

    theres oil in virginia: Don’t know if y’all are familiar with this, but a friend pointed it out to me:

    https://twitter.com/_FloridaMan

    Heh heh, that’s hilarious. Very few other states could generate that kind reinterpretive goodness.

  76. Numenius says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I think you missed the part where I tried to distinguish what people mean when they say “experience” in reference to various “winners” of a particular stripe and others who have simply played the games. I probably wasn’t very clear… which I will now blame on the amorphous nature of the subject matter.

    These are “intangible” factors that are actually valuable. I don’t discount them. Nor do I discount size, character etc.

    I do however, have serious qualms about how one might actually measure these factors relative to other players, how much they actually contribute to success and how highly they tend to be regarded by a certain class of hockey commentator.

    That said, it wouldn’t be the end of the world. I don’t think Hall or Ference are going to act much differently based on their letter or lackthereof.

    I hear you on the last part. Ference and Hall will strongly influence the team for good regardless of whether they have a letter.

    I don’t quite understand, though, your qualms regarding measuring these leadership related intangibles. Are you saying that there is no way to tell who is a better leader than someone else? Even if what makes for good leadership is difficult and perhaps impossible to measure, I’d hope everyone would agree that Ference is a better leader than Petrell.

    Wait a minute. I see what you’re getting at. *duh, brain finally engages* You’re suggesting that the C should go to the best all around hockey player and that it shouldn’t just go to a worse player because of some amorphous “leadership qualities”.

    Ok, but that’s not always true. I agree that the best all around players will tend to be the best leaders, but it doesn’t guarantee they’ll be. In those cases, you have to choose a C by comparing hockey skill vs. leadership qualities, and I’d maintain that’s not as arbitrary as you make it sound. Unless I’m still missing something, which is always possible… :)

  77. Bruce McCurdy says:

    theres oil in virginia: Was that ‘snark’-asm too, or do you think he leaves the zone early as well?

    I’ve seen him leave the zone early a time or two, and other times I’ve seen him run around in his own end like he didn’t have a clue what to do next. In fact, overall I would consider him a flawed hockey player. (As is frequently the case with guys acquired via the waiver wire.) But “cheats”, “terrible” and “gets head beaten in” are a little over the top in my view.

  78. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Numenius: I hear you on the last part. Ference and Hall will strongly influence the team for good regardless of whether they have a letter.

    I don’t quite understand, though, your qualms regarding measuring these leadership related intangibles. Are you saying that there is no way to tell who is a better leader than someone else? Even if what makes for good leadership is difficult and perhaps impossible to measure, I’d hope everyone would agree that Ference is a better leader than Petrell.

    Wait a minute. I see what you’re getting at. *duh, brain finally engages* You’re suggesting that the C should go to the best all around hockey player and that it shouldn’t just go to a worse player because of some amorphous “leadership qualities”.

    Ok, but that’s not always true. I agree that the best all around players will tend to be the best leaders, but it doesn’t guarantee they’ll be. In those cases, you have to choose a C by comparing hockey skill vs. leadership qualities, and I’d maintain that’s not as arbitrary as you make it sound. Unless I’m still missing something, which is always possible…

    hard to be clear on internet forums. ha!

    *not impossible to measure at all, just impossible to measure with any real accuracy and something that lends itself to extreme bias, especially by commentators who tend to value this stuff really highly and tend to fall in love/hate relationships with players for all manner of nonsensical reasons.

    *not saying C must = best player. But I am saying I’m not overly swayed by arguments like the one’s Gregor is using for Ference. And, in general I sour at the idea of giving the identity of a team to a brand new acquisition especially one who doesn’t project to be driving the bus.

  79. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: 1. Many artists “disown” parts or all of their oeuvre. Kafka asked his friend and literary agent to burn all his works. Should we not read them, or not attribute them to him?“Authorship” is an especially thorny issue. Even in the (relatively speaking) soloist category of a Novel, or work of non-fiction, the question is far reaching evoking questions of “reliability” “textual history and transmission” “intentional fallacy” etc.At any rate, I have no idea how this relates to the fact that Spartacus belongs to his early works, which are all genre flics and all lack the “Kubrick Touch” if you will. Unless, of course, you simply mean to discount his contribution to the film entirely, which doesn’t make much sense.2. I think you have a very narrow understanding of “character” and “storytelling” and I have no idea how adaption relates at all. “O Brother where art thou” is a radical departure from “the Odyssey” but it is not because of that departure devoid of “character” and “storytelling.”

    I’m not sure why you are bringing all this “authorship” nonsense to the debate… This has got nothing to do with attribution. You were categorizing Kubrick films. One of the Kubrick films you are categorizing is Spartacus, a film Kubrick himself would not have categorized as part of his canon. Early or Late. You however, seem to disagree.

    I also am not sure why you are using the notions of genre and non-genre in your categorization… 2001 is sci-fi, Clockwork would probably be called the same, Strangelove is comedy, Shining horror, FMJ war, BL Restoration comedy. Yet his early works are characterized by you as genre films, and by implication his later films aren’t? Is it genre that is really separating these works or defining his maturity?

    Are his more “mature” works expressed by his “stylistic touches, layered meanings and nuanced approach to character and story telling”? Are these characteristics really what typifies Kubrick’s maturity? His style and approach varies from film to film, depending on what Kubrick was exploring. I don’t think he would think of himself as having a “Kubrick” style in that sense.

    And by the way, isn’t Killer’s Kiss a more mature film than either Paths of Glory or Spartacus, despite pre-dating both?

    Sorry to pick on you Rom, you obviously love cinema and spend time with it… I just don’t think you are doing justice to Kubrick.

  80. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Here’s a selection of Ryan Jones’ “defensive” stats, be they role-specific or simply record actions when not in possession of the puck. I’m recording his rank on the team among those 14 or so forwards who played over half of Oilers’ games during each of his three full seasons here.

    Category — 2010-11, 2011-12, 2013
    ============================

    QualComp (Corsi Rel version) — 8th toughest, 5th, 10th
    QualTeam (” ” ” ) — 10th best, 8th, 10th
    Zone starts — 6th toughest, 3rd, 6th

    GA On/60 — 3rd best, 9th, 1st

    Hits — 1st, 2nd, 3rd
    Blocked shots — 1st, 1st, 11th
    Takeaways — 3rd, 3rd, 9th

    SH TOI/G: 4th, 2nd, 6th

    Some of his numbers took a hit in 2013, due to some cocktail of lockout-shortened season, games missed to injury, games played while recovering from injury, reduced ice time, and, uhh, coaching strategies, but in his two full years under Renney I don’t see a lot in those numbers that says this guy wasn’t or shouldn’t be trusted defensively. Yes of course these rankings are comparing him to other Oilers — aka one of the worst teams in hockey — but where is the evidence that he deserves to be a whipping boy for all that is wrong with the team?

    Or do all those numbers lie and does seen-him-bad overrule the day?

  81. Lowetide says:

    There’s a thread on this, Bruce. You inspired it!

  82. OilLeak says:

    linkfromhyrule,

    Sure I could list of the same stats that many have already stated before, or not. All of this is common knowledge.

  83. theres oil in virginia says:

    Bruce McCurdy: I’ve seen him leave the zone early a time or two, and other times I’ve seen him run around in his own end like he didn’t have a clue what to do next. In fact, overall I would consider him a flawed hockey player. (As is frequently the case with guys acquired via the waiver wire.)But “cheats”, “terrible” and “gets head beaten in” are a little over the top in my view.

    I’ve seen the defensive zone struggles, but I’ve seen them in Hall, Gagner, Eberle, Hemsky, J. Schultz,… Now clearly those guys have other qualities that Jones lacks, but still. I look at Jones like he’s the offensive-minded player who wasn’t quite up to high-end NHL standards on offensive ability alone, but he hasn’t really picked up the defensive acumen. Contrast that with Marchant and McAmmond, who I’d put in about the same boat offensively, but both transformed their games out of necessity. Maybe Jones will too.

  84. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: I’m not sure why you are bringing all this “authorship” nonsense to the debate… This has got nothing to do with attribution.You were categorizing Kubrick films.One of the Kubrick films you are categorizing is Spartacus, a film Kubrick himself would not have categorized as part of his canon.Early or Late. You however, seem to disagree.

    I also am not sure why you are using the notions of genre and non-genre in your categorization…2001 is sci-fi, Clockwork would probably be called the same, Strangelove is comedy, Shining horror, FMJ war, BL Restoration comedy.Yet his early works are characterized by you as genre films, and by implication his later films aren’t?Is it genre that is really separating these works or defining his maturity?

    Are his more “mature” works expressed by his “stylistic touches, layered meanings and nuanced approach to character and story telling”?Are these characteristics really what typifies Kubrick’s maturity?His style and approach varies from film to film, depending on what Kubrick was exploring.I don’t think he would think of himself as having a “Kubrick” style in that sense.

    And by the way, isn’t Killer’s Kiss a more mature film than either Paths of Glory or Spartacus, despite pre-dating both?

    Sorry to pick on you Rom, you obviously love cinema and spend time with it… I just don’t think you are doing justice to Kubrick.

    Fair enough.

    Not trying to do justice, or injustice to him. This started with a simple point of entrance on the topic offered for someone expressing interest, which I still can’t find fault with… but we can go miles if you like.

    “authorship” is relevant if we are contesting whether “Spartacus” belongs in the Kubrick series of films.

    The quick answer is simply that the official version is Kubrick directed the film.

    The long answer being that he did so under a studio system, where the Producer typically got top billing, had a huge hand in the creative control of films and directors were little more than contract workers (recall this is before Sarris and others gave us the auteur theory and the lionizing of the director).

    The fact that he rejected it provides an interesting insight into the film’s production, creation and final cut. But it is no less his film than any other film directed by someone who has their work meddled with by writers, editors, producers, etc.

    The even longer answer being that attributing any work of art, let alone a collaborative piece, to a single author is fraught and by extension relying on that author’s own intentions is even moreso.

    ——

    there are two kinds of “genre films” (I should have specified).

    1) there are “Film Genres”, i.e., crime, romance, war, etc.

    and then there are

    2) “genre films” which were prevalent in the studio system days, i.e., mostly B movies, sometimes blockbusters, that used formulaic plots, piggybacked off prior successes, left the audience comfortable insofar as expectations were always fulfilled. the B movie versions typically had cheap actors, sets, technical staff, etc. Think the scene where Barton Fink meets Lipnick in his office and Lipnick describes the central attributes of the “Wrestling picture”

    Kubrick’s early pictures (Killer’s Kiss, The Killing, Paths of Glory and Spartacus) were genre pictures by and large. That’s all.

    This isn’t to say that “genre films” can’t be inventive within their constraints or groundbreaking or whatever. It is simply a way to classify a large group of films together.

    ———

    Kubrick’s films vary a great deal but there are certainly elements of stylistic coherence there: his use of soundscapes/music to add comedy, tone, juxtaposition and emotional weight; his use of perspective, here’s a nice compilation:

    http://www.geekosystem.com/kubrick-one-point-perspective/

    and his love of human contrasts, esp. order/chaos run throughout his mature films.

    ——–

    I completely agree, Killer’s Kiss is a much better film than the other two, The Killing is better than all 3. I suspect the freedom from a big budget and clamoring producers had a lot to do with it, he was flying under the radar on those two.

    I prefer The Killing to most of his mature works. But I can also recognize that it lacks the sophistication of his mature films.

    Next time I give a commentator a tip on a filmmaker, I’ll be sure to be more complete in my discussion (I’m sure the non-cinephiles will love that!) ;)

  85. theres oil in virginia says:

    Rom, Spoiler,
    Speaking as someone who hasn’t got an artistic grain in his body, I have enjoyed the posts re Kubrick and cinema. Hopefully there’s no tension here. It’s nice to read these ideas that I would never conceive even after watching these films repeatedly.

    I did however, notice in both The Shining and 2001 that the 1 point perspective was a staple. I did not however, know that it was called the 1 point perspective.

    Thanks.

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