RE 13-14 DAVID PERRON: WORD ON A WING

David Perron arrives in Edmonton with a chance for rebirth, renewal. The young Oilers are looking for the final pieces to get this rocket airborne–if Perron fills the 2line L role he could be here for the rest of the decade. If not? This could be a very short trip to the north country.

RE 13-14: 69, 20-24-44

  1. Would that represent a career year? No. He’s scored more points twice before during his NHL career.
  2. Is he a better offensive player than Paajarvi? Yes. I don’t think there’s much doubt. Tyler Dellow mentioned recently that Perron is the player you hope Paajarvi turns into, so Edmonton cashed potential for established talent–that’s exactly the right move here.
  3. Is he a better offensive player than Hemsky?  Great question. I don’t know.
  4. More answers from the answer man! Well, it’s a tough call. Hemsky is a better NHL player than a lot of these kids, but there’s a problem with health. That problem makes it difficult to project Hemsky onto the roster. Perron is less troubling. Healthy, Hemsky’s better than Perron but Perron’s not alone there.
  5. Perron has been injured before, lost a whole season. Yes, but healthy since and I don’t think it’s a major worry at this point.
  6. Is he rugged or anything? Yeah, a little. Pims aren’t a good indication of much at all, but his total this past season would have put him 2nd among Oiler forwards and certainly first among the skilled guys. He and Hall are about the same in this area imo, they don’t take crap from anyone.
  7. What’s good about him? Another very skilled guy, he can play either wing and score goals, make passes and think the game at an advanced level. Oilers have a few of these guys now, they can mix and match.
  8. Will he play with Hall? Actually, I think Perron and Hall are gritty enough to be considered the phyiscal element on their lines. Which means (to me anyway) his possible linemates include Nuge, Gagner, Eberle, Yakupov and Hemsky.
  9. Did you like him on his draft day? Yes, suggested they take him 15th overall.
  10. How much did he play in St. Louis? This past season he was 4th in EV TOI (14:47) basically a third place tie with Steen. Backes was the EV bull for St. Louis, but Perron got his minutes at that discipline. He was also 4th in PP TOI (2:28) but Hitchock ran 7 guys (!!!!) at about the same powerplay time on ice this year. Man, that guy works on a different level.
  11. Could he break out, 30 goals? Well, yes. He’ll be in a new situation, and maybe he develops mad chem with Hall, or Nuge or Yakupov. Perron’s a very interesting player, I think the Oilers may have acquired more than just  a complementary player. I like the idea he can move up and down the lineup, he gives them nice depth at a very high level. If they ever dealt him at a deadline they’d get a king’s ransom, he’s a plug and play at all kinds of disciplines.
  12. So, you’re trading him already? No, but things will go fast now, the urgency is here. That means Perron has this season and maybe next before the Oilers will try to find another option. If the 2nd line shoots lights out (very likely) compared to last season he’ll be here a long time. I’d bet on that, but strange things happen sometimes.
  13. The change from Hemsky/Paajarvi to Perron/Yakupov will change the flow of the river? Well, a little. However, I think it has to do with the coaching change and philosophy too. Dellow has been working on that line’s story all summer and is arriving at interesting conclusions. The return to more traditional NHL solutions should mean we’re looking at better results, with Perron being in the right place at the right time.
  14. What do you mean? I’m honestly not sure, but Dellow is looking at it here and I’m hopeful he finds answers. The Oilers were doing unusual things with the structure of that line off faceoffs, but they didn’t work–a new coach who isn’t familiar with this (I assume Eakins isn’t going over the Krueger playbook looking for ideas) probably solves the problem and a more ‘straight up’ or traditional approach likely gives better results. Or so we hope.
  15. Why this song? It’s the first song I thought of for Perron, for many reasons. First, it’s about rebirth, and that’s what Edmonton could be for Perron. St. Louis dealt him for cap reasons, but he was also the guy they chose to deal. That’s a motivational tool right there, and Perron strikes me as a guy who’ll channel that onto the ice and work hard for a good result in his new home. Also, it’s a beautiful melody, just wonderful, and Perron’s game has elements of that–he’s very skilled and can do some pretty amazing things. Finally, like so many Bowie songs, it’s absolutely original (as is Perron). The themes are grand and the music is lush but there’s sadness evident too, and I think Perron probably approaches his time in Edmonton a little wounded from the St. Louis exit.

PERRON’S SLEDGEHAMMER 2012-13

vollman perron

That’s a nice match for the Oilers high end skill guys, he should fit right in. Perron’s adjustment to the Oilers and the Eakins system should be helped by the quality of the guys he’s playing with; leaving St. Louis for Edmonton represents more opportunity. I don’t know how much powerplay time he’ll get, but Perron will be a big factor in the Oilers success this season.

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81 Responses to "RE 13-14 DAVID PERRON: WORD ON A WING"

  1. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Perron is an interesting choice for second. I can’t recall from last year, does your RE series follow the order of your projected scoring, i.e., first to last in points?

    I think this is a very reasonable marker for Perron. It might be a shade light, given he’s coming into a less defensive system with so much skill, speed and talent. I’m curious where you think he drops his 13 games?

    ———

    Love the song. Also, love Bowie for the RE series. After the Hall pick, I wasn’t sure if you were going all Bowie or just for Hall.

    At any rate, I would have picked Move On for Perron, with a nod to Magnus:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NGc1nlWOiU

    Sometimes I feel
    The need to move on
    So I pack a bag
    And move on
    Move on

    Well I might take a train
    Or sail at dawn
    Might take a girl
    When I move on
    When I move on

    Somewhere, someone’s calling me
    When the chips are down
    I’m just a travelling man
    Maybe it’s just a trick of the mind, but
    Somewhere there’s a morning sky
    Bluer than her eyes
    Somewhere there’s an ocean
    Innocent and wild

    also, I’m just really partial to Lodger. Such a weird album. It and Low have some real interesting sounds.

  2. cabbiesmacker says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if some line shuffling occurs. I can see Perron with RNH and Eberle and Hall with Gagner and Yak. For no other reason than an attempt to cover up Gagner’s obvious deficiencies.

    A really solid C would go a long ways to making this club a legit playoff contender. As it is right now there’s far too much “hoping and praying” for the kids to pull things out of the fire. I’d give them a 40 – 45% chance of getting a playoff sniff. Having two C’s in your top six under 50% in the dot just does not bode well.

  3. godot10 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think LT is going by position, LW’s first.

  4. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    godot10:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I think LT is going by position, LW’s first.

    ahh… that makes sense.

  5. sliderule says:

    So Dellow is trying to figure out RKs systems.Good luck with that.

    RK was a motivation guru not a systems coach.The oil then saddled him with coaches who were inexperienced or kinda coffee gofers.

    Eakins and Atkins better be system coaches because the oil have given them the same old recycled assistants..

    I haven’t heard a word on what systems that Eakins will run other than his comment many systems.

    Until someone digs out from Eakins what he plans to run I am worried we may get same old same old

  6. Lowetide says:

    Yes, it’s by position. Tomorrow: the 3L.

  7. bookje says:

    Lowetide:
    Yes, it’s by position. Tomorrow: the 3L.

    Shouldn’t it go Centre first, then LW, then RW?

  8. Lowetide says:

    bookje: Shouldn’t it go Centre first, then LW, then RW?

    No. Hall’s the top of the heap. :-)

  9. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    sliderule:
    So Dellow is trying to figure outRKs systems.Good luck with that.

    RK was a motivation guru not a systems coach.The oil then saddled him with coaches who were inexperienced or kinda coffee gofers.

    Eakinsand Atkins better be system coaches because the oil have given them the same old recycled assistants..

    I haven’t heard a word on what systems that Eakins will run other than his comment many systems.

    Until someone digs out from Eakins what he plans to run I am worried we may get same old same old

    I would assume the default would be something closer to Renney than RK.

    ps. I like how you combined Eakins and Acton’s name to create a super-coach “Atkins”

  10. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: No. Hall’s the top of the heap.

    See!

    That’s where it gets confusing. You start with Hall because he’s the best… but then you do an end run and hop to Perron and LW.

    (I’m not really that confused, but it is fun to complain!)

  11. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: See!

    That’s where it gets confusing. You start with Hall because he’s the best… but then you do an end run and hop to Perron and LW.

    (I’m not really that confused, but it is fun to complain!)

    I’m mysterious. :-)

  12. Racki says:

    This season can’t start soon enough. I’m a glutton for punishment by having high expectations every year, but I really think this is going to be the best year we’ve had here since the SCF in 05/06. That isn’t saying a whole lot, but when we’ve been bottom feeding for so long, that’s a pretty big jump. The light switch will finally turn on, like the Leafs last year.

  13. 99thoilerfan says:

    “For some of us, draft day is like Christmas. Please God don’t turn it into Friday the 13th.”

    Fun Looking back now LT… So was Christmas, on Friday the 13?

  14. Doug McLachlan says:

    Position is a good way of doing it. Does your starting with LW herald a conversion to the standard L-C-R structure of setting out lines?

    Edit: A few beat me to it :-)

  15. Lowetide says:

    99thoilerfan:
    “For some of us, draft day is like Christmas. Please God don’t turn it into Friday the 13th.”

    Fun Looking back now LT… So was Christmas, on Friday the 13?

    2007? Christmas early, Samwise was a find. After that? No. I wasn’t pleased:

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2007/06/alex-plante-2.html

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2007/06/riley-nash-2.html

  16. theres oil in virginia says:

    LT, what was your disappointment with the possible selection of Alzner based on? Just the possibility of taking him so high? Would you rather have Alzner than Gagner right now? I like Gagner, but I think I’d take Alzner in a split second right now.

    Also, based on your reads/suggestions prior to draft day, maybe the Oilers should give you a ring before next draft as a kind of “reasonability check”:
    OIL: “So what do you think of Plante at #15 ahead of guys like Perron and McDonagh?”
    LT: “Noooooooooo!!!!”

    Looking back, I can’t figure that one out. Drafting a D-man with obvious foot-speed issues in the top-half of the 1st round!? I wasn’t paying attention to drafts during those years, but hindsight makes that pick look ridiculous.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Oil in Virginia: Yeah, but that’s cherry picking. I’m absolutely certain that risk averse is the wise move 1-100, and they reached on Plante and Nash that season, but I’m certainly no scout and the scouts I know are way more qualified than I to make the visual assessment. Math can help, though and it sounds like the Oilers are proceeding with that as a guide.

    As for Alzner, no I’d still take Gagner. I’m not a fan of strict stay at home defensemen unless they’re insane shutdown types, and buying them at #6 overall is a terrible idea every year.

  18. theres oil in virginia says:

    Just read this after reading the link you put up just now regarding drafting Plante:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Cherepanov#Death

    If any of that is true, it’s just damn ridiculous.

  19. Lowetide says:

    Virginia: The Cherepanov death? Yes, true. Very sad.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    without re-litigating the 07 draft down to the toes… and blue-skying for a moment…

    I often wondered, remove the concussion and other injury problems, give Plante the best-case scenario developmental path, but leave him with all his raw tools and flaws… does he get to 200+ NHL games?

    I’m really not sure.

  21. supernova says:

    I love the fact Perron is genuinely excited to be here, It seems he is quite happy to be in a new more open system, as well as he is happy to feel wanted. He seems like a very passionate guy, and he payed on a team that improved while he was there from a bottom tier team to a team on the cusp of being a contender.

    Great trade all the way around.

    My dream is still to get Dave Backes out of St. Loo, that guy is the perfect fit for the Oilers.

  22. Lowetide says:

    Rom: Plante had real, REAL foot speed issues. Turned like an ocean liner.

  23. theres oil in virginia says:

    LT: Yeah, Cherepanov. The fact that they revived him several times, but didn’t have the basic equipment needed to keep him alive made my blood get about a half-degree hotter.

    It’s interesting to look back at those old posts, way before the time I ever heard of this place (and I’ve been lurking around regularly for at least a couple of years now). Striking that AsiaOil was pretty dead-on regarding some of the better bets instead of Plante and Nash. Also striking is that those posts only got a handful of comments. Wow, you’ve grown a little since then! I see Omark (Swedish smurf) debated briefly there as well.

  24. theres oil in virginia says:

    Even before the concussions started, I never heard anyone say that Plante had made any marked improvement in that area (foot speed). I vaguely remember something about a problem with him in Junior too, where he didn’t want to play for a certain coach? I don’t ever remember hearing any good news regarding that prospect, now that I think about it.

  25. Lowetide says:

    Asia and others in that thread brought brilliant insights all the time. VERY smart people have dropped by over the years, and for that I’m grateful.

  26. theres oil in virginia says:

    It was disturbing to see the recent meltdown of Asia. Maybe a few deep breaths will help. It’s been tough to be an Oilers fan, but now’s really not the time to give up.

    I’m always impressed by how smart many of the commenters are here (and the host too!).

    So, recently I tried to find NationRadio, or what had happened to it. That show was a staple of mine last summer. This year it’s been your new radio show (thank god for the internet). I couldn’t find any news regarding NR. Did that die? Hibernating?

  27. Lowetide says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    It was disturbing to see the recent meltdown of Asia.Maybe a few deep breaths will help.It’s been tough to be an Oilers fan, but now’s really not the time to give up.

    I’m always impressed by how smart many of the commenters are here (and the host too!).

    So, recently I tried to find NationRadio, or what had happened to it.That show was a staple of mine last summer.This year it’s been your new radio show (thank god for the internet).I couldn’t find any news regarding NR.Did that die?Hibernating?

    Oilers Nation (and the nations sites) found they got an exceptional amount of response from their podcasts, and were devoting a lot of time and energy to the radio show to get a similar result. So, I think that’s why the change in direction. I’ve listened to some of the podcasts and they’re excellent, don’t have time constraints, etc.

  28. stevezie says:

    I loved reading that old draft thread. 2007 was the deepest I’ve ever looked into a draft, and when it finally came I got to watch it unfold inside of a tiny Guatemalan internet café with no heat, doors or glass on the windows while outside it rained hard enough to knock the power out several times. No video, just me and my buddy hitting “refresh” on tsn.ca.

    (Trying to find a telecast of the hockey draft in Guatemala is something every true hockey fan should experience at least once in their miserable lives. “No not the game, just the draft. A bunch of old men in suits are going to read some names, and then some young men in suits are going to shake their hands and put a new shirt on. Then some other men in suits are going to get very excited and criticize everyone, even though no one of consequence cares what they think. It`s very exciting to a Canadian.”)

    What an objectively bad pick Plante was. What a silly thing trading up for Nash was. While I remain glad we got Gagner, I will admit Alzner turned out better than I thought. Really it was a pretty good top-ten, which is funny considering all the “Steep, severe drop-off after Van Riemsdyk(!)” talk.

    I can’t wait to find out who Queen Bitch is.

  29. thebiggestmanintheworld says:

    Lowetide,

    “I’m not a fan of strict stay at home defensemen unless they’re insane shutdown types, and buying them at #6 overall is a terrible idea every year.”

    What’s the number for Alzner to cover that number, if he even can? Will GP do it? If he hits a 1000 GP, is that a win?

    I just wonder, because, like you, I do not advocate taking dmen that high unless they’re world beaters, top pairing, etc.

    Can Alzner ever play himself into justifying that high of a draft spot?

    If he is a top 4 option for 8-9-10 years, does that cover the bet?

  30. Lowetide says:

    thebiggestmanintheworld:
    Lowetide,

    “I’m not a fan of strict stay at home defensemen unless they’re insane shutdown types, and buying them at #6 overall is a terrible idea every year.”

    What’s the number for Alzner to cover that number, if he even can? Will GP do it? If he hits a 1000 GP, is that a win?

    I just wonder, because, like you, I do not advocate taking dmen that high unless they’re world beaters, top pairing, etc.

    Can Alzner ever play himself into justifying that high of a draft spot?

    If he is a top 4 option for 8-9-10 years, does that cover the bet?

    Honestly, I don’t think a strict shutdown defenseman can ever cover that number. For me, I’d rather risk a home run on an impact offensive player than draft a solid defensive defenseman. They usually take forever, they often get hurt and on top of that a team doesn’t really get that many miles out of them before they reach free agency.

    So if you do get a good one, they start playing well at about 22 and then you have 5 years before they can leave. Not a good bet in the lottery spots.

  31. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide:
    Oilers Nation (and the nations sites) found they got an exceptional amount of response from their podcasts, and were devoting a lot of time and energy to the radio show to get a similar result. So, I think that’s why the change in direction. I’ve listened to some of the podcasts and they’re excellent, don’t have time constraints, etc.

    I found that article talking about the web-listenership vs on-air, but I don’t see any links to “podcasts” at ON. When I Google-searched for “oilersnation podcast”, there it is at iTunes, but only the old NationRadio from before September 2012. Am I missing something obvious? (I’m not exactly on top of all the new-fangled technology, even though I’m under 40 – don’t tell LT.)

  32. Lowetide says:

    http://nhlnumbers.com/authors/podcast

    I see they haven’t thrown anything up since November, wonder if the podcasts are simply listed as stories now. Anyway, I’d scroll through NHL Numbers stories, bet there’s a few there.

  33. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide: Honestly, I don’t think a strict shutdown defenseman can ever cover that number. For me, I’d rather risk a home run on an impact offensive player than draft a solid defensive defenseman. They usually take forever, they often get hurt and on top of that a team doesn’t really get that many miles out of them before they reach free agency.

    So if you do get a good one, they start playing well at about 22 and then you have 5 years before they can leave. Not a good bet in the lottery spots.

    Yeah, in that light, I’ll have to back off from my foolish swapping him with Gagner “in a split second”. I also thought he was playing top pairing in DC. The Capitals are my “hometown team”, even way out here 300 miles from DC, so they’re blacked out and I don’t get their games. I am very impressed with Alzner though every time I see him play.

  34. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide,

    Thanks. I’ll have a closer look as time permits. A quick glance at that link is already bringing back some memories of Wanye writing about getting involved with the numbers project some time back.

  35. Gerta Rauss says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    It was disturbing to see the recent meltdown of Asia.Maybe a few deep breaths will help.It’s been tough to be an Oilers fan, but now’s really not the time to give up.

    I found that odd as well-he was here through the dark days only to lose his shit over what was it…the coaching change(Eakins)??…we watched years of POS and Nilsson and the coach with the onion belt and he went off the deep end over hiring Dallas Eakins?

    I always enjoyed his posts-I seem to recall he had some very insightful comments on goaltending(I think it was him anyway)

    Puzzling.

  36. theres oil in virginia says:

    Gerta Rauss: I found that odd as well-he was here through the dark days only to lose his shit over what was it…the coaching change(Eakins)??…we watched years of POS and Nilsson and the coach with the onion belt and he went off the deep end over hiring Dallas Eakins?

    I always enjoyed his posts-I seem to recall he had some very insightful comments on goaltending(I think it was him anyway)

    Puzzling.

    Yeah, the coaching change was the proverbial straw. Maybe “time heals all wounds” will hold true. A little winning wouldn’t hurt either.

  37. jake70 says:

    supernova:
    I love the fact Perron is genuinely excited to be here, It seems he is quite happy to be in a new more open system, as well as he is happy to feel wanted. He seems like a very passionate guy, and he payed on a team that improved while he was there from a bottom tier team to a team on the cusp of being a contender.

    Great trade all the way around.

    My dream is still to get Dave Backes out of St. Loo, that guy is the perfect fit for the Oilers.

    Listened to Perron interview on TSN radio yesterday. Asked about playing more offensively, he made this point: In St. Louis, if they had a 3 on 2 rush, they still had to dump it in and chase.

    He also said he spoke to Eakins a couple of times, they reviewed the conditioning expectations, Perron seemed panicked (jokingly) about what Eakins has in store.

  38. maudite says:

    Trying to get gomez for lord knows…but trade falling through
    Trying to offer sheet Vanek at the price of a king’s bounty of 1st round picks
    Trying to sign Nylander but him backing out
    Trying to swap smid and cogs + for Heatley but him not willing to wave his no trade
    Trying to sign Clarkson to an absurd contract

    The best moves this management has made for a significant amount of years are the ones that somehow the other side of the deal didn’t allow them to make. Truly being run like a loser franchise with over it’s head management.

    That clarkson deal really does have me concerned. There is just so much wrong, for such a long time new similar missteps to past ‘brain trusts’ should not be overlooked…especially when the new brain trust is debateable all that new. I also have some minor rumblings on the passing over Jussi for free last year (how sweet would he fit into things on a workable contract as well). these people were all involved in the management. Some of the shit still sticks no matter how hard they pretend, until they truly prove they are not prone to same failings as previous “new versions” of management. Jim mutherfucking Nill…grumble.

  39. theres oil in virginia says:

    On an older post, DeadManWaking (at 4:30 AM!!) indirectly dredged up this old post from Trade Deadline 2010:

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2010/03/reject-all-signals.html

    You nailed it again:
    The Oilers are going immerse themselves in size and grit. “We’re back” to the Coke Machines and knuckle-draggers. The men hired today are Whitney (6.04, 220), Jones (6.01, 206) and Johnson (6.01, 211) and the main one sent away (Lubo) was 5.10, 188. Wait for the draft, folks. We’re going to see a lot of “one-eyebrow” types.

    I think the recent 2nd rounders mostly fit the mould of that last sentence.

  40. gcw_rocks says:

    Perron is MacT’s prize acquisition. He’ll get a push, which will include eating Hemsky’s powerplay time for lunch. Hemsky is screwed.

  41. maudite says:

    I guess I should have started that thought a bit clearer. It was said in support of why Asia is finally at his breaking point with this franchise. Hard to really argue they can see the forest through the trees yet. While they possibly may have progressed to realizing they are in a forest…hard to be overly confident in much yet.

  42. supernova says:

    jake70: Listened to Perron interview on TSN radio yesterday.Asked about playing more offensively,he made this point:In St. Louis, if they had a 3 on 2 rush,they still had to dump it in and chase.

    He also said he spoke to Eakins a couple of times, they reviewed the conditioning expectations, Perron seemed panicked (jokingly) about what Eakins has in store.

    He seems to walk that thin line of passion / humor that some MSM don’t get. I personally love players that live and breath hockey, Perron certainly seems to have this, plus he has a sense of humor.

  43. stevezie says:

    gcw_rocks,

    Disagree. The PP will continue to feature at least 7 forwards, so no one who expects time has anything to worry about.

  44. supernova says:

    maudite:
    Trying to get gomez for lord knows…but trade falling through
    Trying to offer sheet Vanek at the price of a king’s bounty of 1st round picks
    Trying to sign Nylander but him backing out
    Trying to swap smid and cogs + for Heatley but him not willing to wave his no trade
    Trying to sign Clarkson to an absurd contract

    The best moves this management has made for a significant amount of years are the ones that somehow the other side of the deal didn’t allow them to make.Truly being run like a loser franchise with over it’s head management.

    That clarkson deal really does have me concerned.There is just so much wrong, for such a long time new similar missteps to past ‘brain trusts’ should not be overlooked…especially when the new brain trust is debateable all that new. I also have some minor rumblings on the passing over Jussi for free last year (how sweet would he fit into things on a workable contract as well). these people were all involved in the management.Some of the shit still sticks no matter how hard they pretend, until they truly prove they are not prone to same failings as previous “new versions” of management.Jim mutherfucking Nill…grumble.

    Every team has a list somewhat like this.

    The goal is to have a longer list of ones that worked out well.

  45. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    @LT.

    I think you’re selling Perron short with your RE.

    He’s coming from a team that tries to win every game 1-0 and given his health appears not to be an issue, I’m not sure why you would have him playing only 69 games.

    I would think 75 GP 25G 35A 60P would be more in line with reality.

    And I think he could even blow past that depending on his chemistry with his new line mates.

  46. denny33 says:

    stevezie,

    The silver lining about our scouts selecting concrete skates Plante is the organization figured out you have to draft mobile defence man.

    So, with the first selection in the 2nd round in 2011, we selected David Musil…..oh wait.

    Oh…

  47. maudite says:

    supernova,

    Can you name a team that even remotely approaches this list that, with essentially the same management team, pulled itself out of the hole they dug?

    CBA manager who has shown at times to misinterpret CBA – keeper!
    Pro scouting staff that, if utilized, has done a terrible job assessing talent – keepers!
    assistant coaches involved in the complete debacle – keepers!
    scouting staff that thus far has done a terrible job in the 2nd and 3rd rounds supplying potential roster players – keepers! (there is some leeway here, I won’t debate that. The ewanyk, moroz type bets smell of Lowe overrides)

    I truly do like MacT and think he is a smart enough guy. But the fact that they did not at least interview other options should be cause for alarm. The fact that, no matter the claims, Lowe is still involved in some form of management, should be cause for alarm. The fact that the process reeks of the arguably inefficient nepotism that has plagued this franchise, should be cause for alarm.

    I don’t mind the moves but even things like the cap hit and structure of the Ference deal (it’s not a good contract and has a NMC on top of it) and the clarkson deal should really make one nervous.

  48. FastOil says:

    maudite:
    I guess I should have started that thought a bit clearer.It was said in support of why Asia is finally at his breaking point with this franchise.Hard to really argue they can see the forest through the trees yet.While they possibly may have progressed to realizing they are in a forest…hard to be overly confident in much yet.

    Agreed. The attempts to counter any intelligent move with a truly stupid one are distressing. It is truly amazing that teams repeatedly make mistakes on deals that even someone who hated stats could anticipate, like deals for career years or for players who are clearly going to decline because of age. Or that teams don’t seem to know when players typically peak.

    As for Hemsky, the only moves are to trade him as soon as possible or extend him as soon as possible. If they don’t want him around he must be dealt. It is unacceptable to me to see him walk for nothing and the chances of him being healthy at the deadline is a risk no smart gambler would take.

  49. spoiler says:

    Did He Who Shall Not Be Named just post something positive about an Oiler?

    *checks coffee for tabs of acid*

  50. supernova says:

    Ottawa,
    NYI (although I would have to study deeper on when Snow was GM but he has been there awhile)
    NYR ( until this last season they were seen as cup contenders)
    LA ( has even shown its fair share of mistakes but have overcome them with a longer line of right calls)
    Chicago ( they blamed Tallon for the RFA mess but management is essentially the same)

    That is five of the top of my head. We can dig into each one and I can show you a valid argument.

    The 2 biggest areas of mistakes made IMO on the oilers is
    1) not rebuilding quick enough after Pronger departed, but really they were 1 win away. I was chanting for a rebuild that following February but they chose to hang on for 2 more years.
    2) I agree their pro scouting is brutal.

    As far as amateur scouting I think it depends on the focus from the GM and even then it tends to focus on team needs for most picks. MacT was clear about players with skill need to be drafted that was a change.

    I think it’s foolish to think that every team doesn’t have a list of mistakes and almost mistakes the goal is to overcome those.

    Read a few blogs and beat reporters of Boston and Chicago throughout the last 2 years and they were getting critisezed routinely. I greatly disliked Tambo and definitely his use of the roster ( he cost RK his job by not making decisions on Whitney, Peckham and smithson early enough). But I also think every team makes mistakes but they work to overcome them.

  51. justDOit says:

    supernova,

    These morsels from: http://tlorenz41.blogspot.ca/2013/04/worst-gm-of-all-time-jay-feaster-or.html. Maybe a few are a stretch for being ‘really stupid’, but read on – it gets better! While this in no way absolves Oilers mgmt of their inadequacies, it at least provides a ‘squirrel’ moment for some who might be focusing on one team’s moves too much.

    Islanders traded Chris Osgood and a 3rd round pick to St. Louis for a 2nd round pick and Justin Papineau.

    Feaster traded Rene Bourque and a 2nd round pick for Mike Cammalleri and Karri Ramo.

    Feaster signs Hudler for 4 years at $16 million and Wideman to 5 years at $26.25 million and expected
    Calgary to make playoffs in 2013. He also resigned Cory Sarich for 2 more years for $4 million.

    Calgary traded away Iginla and Bouwmeester for 2 late first round picks and low rated prospects.

    Milbury drafted Rick DiPietro 1st overall in 2000.

    Feaster signs Vincent Lecavalier to an 11 year, $85 million dollar contract to stay with Tampa. He will be 39 when the contract expires and will still be a $7.72 million dollar cap hit.

    Feaster drafter nobody of worth in 2003, which is widely considered the most talent rich draft in NHL history. Really in his entire tenure with both Calgary and Tampa he has yet to draft a single All Star.

    Mike Milbury traded youngsters (at the time) Bryan McCabe, Todd Bertuzzi, and a 3rd round pick (who ended up being Jarkko Ruutu) for a past his prime Trevor Linden.

    Milbury Traded Zdeno Chara and the 2nd overall pick (who ended up being Jason Spezza) for Alexei Yashin.

    Milbury promptly resigned Yashin for 10 years at $87 million dollars. To put this one in perspective, Sidney Crosby just resigned for 8 years at the same salary that Yashin received in this contract.

    The Ryan O’Reilly offer sheet: this is probably the dumbest thing a GM possibly could have done but Jay Feaster can thank the Colorado Avalanche from saving him from potentially making this #1 on my list.

    Milbury traded Roberto Luongo and Olli Jokinen to Florida for Oleg Kvasha and Mark Parrish. This deal speaks for itself, 2 of the games top players for 2 guys who barely saw the NHL ice.

  52. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler:
    Did He Who Shall Not Be Named just post something positive about an Oiler?

    *checks coffee for tabs of acid*

    Yep. I was trying to wrap my brain around that one as well. There must be an angle. I think he’s slowly repositioning himself to be an Oilers fan. The “Canuckleheads” are in decline after all.

  53. godot10 says:

    sliderule:
    So Dellow is trying to figure outRKs systems.Good luck with that.

    RK was a motivation guru not a systems coach.The oil then saddled him with coaches who were inexperienced or kinda coffee gofers.

    RK wasn’t given a fair chance. He wasn’t given an experienced assistant coach. He wasn’t given a training camp or pre-season. He was given a compressed schedule. He was given a one-legged defensemen. And he wasn’t given a chance to fix and learn.

    As if you take Justin Schultz’s word for it, RK was one of the main reasons he came to Edmonton.

    Taylor Hall had a breakout season under RK. Nugent-Hopkins became a 200 foot hockey player under RK. Yakupov learning curve was parabolic under RK. Paajarvi was rehabilitated as a prospect under RK, and that delivered David Perron to the OIlers.

    MacT was at least honest enough to admit that in exercising his perogative to choose his own coach, that he was being unfair to RK.

    A lot of people are counting Eakins chickens here, before they are hatched.

    RK is not a dumb guy. He might have well fixed the things the stats gurus are complaining about. One of the leading practictioners of tactical hockey Lindy Ruff sat Taylor Hall on the bench for much of the World Championship. RK let Taylor Hall run free.

    Ralph was letting the horses run, and perhaps he would eventually figure out he would have to control them more. With a tactics-first coach, one might see the horses run.

  54. Lucinius says:

    godot10,

    The main issue with RK was, however, the defensive zone system. Which at no point in the season worked, was needlessly complex and brutally ineffective — and at no time was there an effort to fix or change it.

    In fact, early on, RK was PLEASED with the system (which is the worst defensive zone system I have ever seen in hockey, at any level).

    I believe, firmly, it was a combination of MacT wanting his own coach and the defensive zone system’s utter failure (and being RK’s baby) that got RK fired — although I do agree a half season was hardly a fair shot for RK and I wasn’t overly thrilled with the decision.

  55. russ99 says:

    I also think Perron’s RE is on the low side.

    The only reason I’d expect Perron not to play 75+ games is if he has further concussion issues, and if so he’d play a lot less than 69 games.

    Also, given that Hitchcock’s infamous clutch/grab/trap/dump/chase/cycle shackles are off such a dynamic player in Perron and an expected return to a level of play before his concussion, I expect 50 points at a bare minimum, with the potential for much more if he clicks on a line with one of the 3 kids and/or Yakupov.

    My RE would be more like 76 – 23-34-57.

    BTW – MacT has been quoted that the Oilers won’t be playing New Jersey/Nashville/St. Louis killjoy hockey, so despite the new systems and tactics that Eakins puts in place, I expect at least the top 6 to play a speed/offensive-oriented/puck retention game. That plays to Perron’s strengths.

  56. maudite says:

    justDOit,

    I am willing to bet Calgary is in for a long walk it the wilderness and they have no chance as even getting a bearing until he is shown the door.

    Super,

    We are talking about massive Milbury-esque/Waddel/Mclean string of moves here. Yes no team does not have some missteps but man we’ve had a lot of them and very well might still be simply reshuffling the deck chairs instead of putting ol’ yeller out of his misery.

    Despite him building that team, Tallon was fired.
    NYI – fired and long road back to being on the verge
    NYR – tradewise and draft/develop (aside from the Nash deal) mostly good. Inserting expensive parts in hasn’t worked…While it’s definitely suprising Slats hasn’t been gassed yet, he batting average in general (mostly due to budget and destination)
    Ottawa and LA?
    Ottawa? – outside the Chara < Philips have they really made consistent poor bets at any point…not a cap team…great development and scouting…what am I overlooking from the top of my head?
    LA? slow march back to top..stanley…stocked farm system…Is there even one deal remotely close to 5 first round overalls for Vanek (luckily falling through).

    I still stand by my what I'm saying still. Not being obstinate it's simply a matter of without outside powers and fate saving us, we would be in even unimaginably worse shape then we presently are and it's going to take a lot to convince me we still might be suffering from some of our issues (over payment in terms/cash and over-priced whale chasing are on display thus far, and it's early)

  57. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    maudite,

    Calgary is in better shape than you might think.

    IF Kiprusoff doesn’t come back, as seems likely, they’re sitting with about $15M in free cap space until they add Monahan and Corban Knight to the roster, (about $5M).

    If, as rumoured the Flames are the most likely destination for Grabovski, they would be running with Grabovski, Monahan, Backlund, Stajan, Knight and Blair Jones at C.

    That’s pretty good depth there.

    AT LW, Cammalleri, Hudler, Glencross, Baertschi and TJ Gagliardi is also a very deep group.

    They’re weak on RW with David Jones, Lee Stempniak, McGratton and Tim Jackman but I can see either a centre or LW switching to play RW or Feaster could pick up one of the remaining free agents.

    Their D will miss Jaybo but Wideman, (though overpaid) and Giordano are pretty good and TJ Brodie looks like he’s going to be a good one.

    Certainly not potential cup champions but far from the dregs of the league either.

  58. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    theres oil in virginia: Yep.I was trying to wrap my brain around that one as well.There must be an angle.I think he’s slowly repositioning himself to be an Oilers fan.The “Canuckleheads” are in decline after all.

    Not to worry…just calls ‘em as I sees ‘em.

    There are a few teams that I think bear watching closely this upcoming season who have likely improved as much as anyone…certainly more than the Oilers.

    STL, CLB and DAL.

    Jim Nill needed to fix his centre depth and managed to do it in one day while it appears the Oilers may go into the season with only 2 NHL calibre centres.

    Imagine that.

  59. prairieschooner says:

    spoiler:
    Did He Who Shall Not Be Named just post something positive about an Oiler?

    *checks coffee for tabs of acid*

    Cloutiier?

  60. theres oil in virginia says:

    Dead Cat Bounce:
    maudite,
    Calgary is in better shape than you might think.

    Grabovski, Monahan, Backlund, Stajan, Knight and Blair Jones at C.

    That’s pretty good depth there.

    Let’s see,
    Grabovski, with 9 goals last year as your #1
    Backlund, with 23 career goals as your #2
    Stajan, who’s averaged 6.3 goals per year for the past 3 seasons
    Knight, a 5th round draft pick who’s never played an NHL game
    B. Jones, with a whopping 5 career goals

    That’s “Oiler depth” right there. Yeah, they’re good to go.

  61. theres oil in virginia says:

    Dead Cat Bounce:
    There are a few teams that I think bear watching closely this upcoming season who have likely improved as much as anyone…certainly more than the Oilers.

    STL, CLB and DAL.

    2 of those 3 just acquired an Oiler from last year. Just sayin’…

  62. justDOit says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Well that’s Grabbo’s low for a few seasons now, so he’s not that bad of an option.

    Trouble is, he’s not on the team yet – and who knows, maybe Feaster will invent an entirely new way of screwing up a UFA signing. Like maybe offering him $6M x 7, with a NMC and seven GM ‘veto tickets’, to strike down one move per season that Feaster wants to make?

  63. Pablo Aimar says:

    Dead Cat Bounce:
    maudite,

    Certainly not potential cup champions but far from the dregs of the league either.

    Calgary is certainly going to be the dregs of the league next year and for years after.

  64. theres oil in virginia says:

    justDOit,
    I’m not down on Grabo. I wouldn’t mind seeing him in Oilers silks. But, you’re right, he’s not even on the team and even if he is, and has a good year, that’s not good center depth.

  65. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    theres oil in virginia: Let’s see,
    Grabovski, with 9 goals last year as your #1
    Backlund, with 23 career goals as your #2
    Stajan, who’s averaged 6.3 goals per year for the past 3 seasons
    Knight, a 5th round draft pick who’s never played an NHL game
    B. Jones, with a whopping 5 career goals

    That’s “Oiler depth” right there.Yeah, they’re good to go.

    Let’s see.

    Grabovski scored 9 goals last season after Carlyle buried him on the 3rd line and gave him 36% Ozone starts,and had him out against the toughest competition. Ryan Nugent Hopkins scored 4 goals despite 52% Ozone starts. (yeah, I know about the shoulder)

    Grabovski has three 20+ goal seasons to his credit so I expect his expected level of performance is in that range and should his PP time revert to what it had been in previous seasons, I can’t imagine he wouldn’t come close to 25 goals and 55-60 points.

    No guarantee the Flames will sign him but IF they do and IF Monahan is as advertised, they’re going to be in much better shape at C than you’re willing to admit.

  66. theres oil in virginia says:

    Dead Cat Bounce,

    Just so we’re clear, I am not in any way shape or form arguing that the Oilers have center depth. I’m an advocate for signing a real NHL center, and Grabovski is that. Is he a good #1 center? He might be, but it’s not a safe bet. My exclusion of Monahan was unintentional, but having witnessed the travesty that the Oilers have called hockey for the last few years, I’d say the Flames had better send him back to Junior for a year, and I wouldn’t be shocked if they did that. No matter how good he is, he hasn’t played a game in the NHL yet, and we’ve seen first hand that it does factor in. Like I said above, that’s “Oiler depth”, meaning “we’re comfortable with what we’ve got going into training camp”, you know with 2 healthy NHL centers.

    So yeah, if the Oilers are the cut-off line for center depth, then the Flames are stacked (assuming they sign Grabovski, which isn’t a given).

  67. sliderule says:

    Lucinius,

    The defensive zone system seemed to confuse the wingers and overworked the centers.It also left huge gaps in the slot to the oppositions delight.
    The non matching of lines was a head scratcher but the defensive zone system put a hole in the boat.
    RKs forechecking systems seemed to be pretty much what every team does.
    The bad pinches and poor coverage for same is players making mistakes and coaches not correcting same.
    The team regressed by most of the advanced stats even with the addition of Yak and Schultz and a very good season by Hall.
    This site has LT and a bunch of posters who are very analytical,yet very little is said or analyzed about systems
    I would like to have someone illuminate me with the systems Eakins ran in TO.
    I believe this year is the year that good coaching could move this team up the ladder farther than since the glory days.

  68. Lucinius says:

    I thought the Flames were confirmed as NOT being among the three teams Grabovski was interested in?

    Combine that with the possibility of them rushing Monahan and I don’t see the Flames emerging from the wilderness for awhile — especially not with Feaster in charge.

  69. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    Dead Cat Bounce,

    Just so we’re clear, I am not in any way shape or form arguing that the Oilers have center depth.I’m an advocate for signing a real NHL center, and Grabovski is that.Is he a good #1 center?He might be, but it’s not a safe bet.My exclusion of Monahan was unintentional, but having witnessed the travesty that the Oilers have called hockey for the last few years, I’d say the Flames had better send him back to Junior for a year, and I wouldn’t be shocked if they did that.No matter how good he is, he hasn’t played a game in the NHL yet, and we’ve seen first hand that it does factor in.Like I said above, that’s “Oiler depth”, meaning “we’re comfortable with what we’ve got going into training camp”, you know with 2 healthy NHL centers.

    So yeah, if the Oilers are the cut-off line for center depth, then the Flames are stacked (assuming they sign Grabovski, which isn’t a given).

    Fair enough.

    Ideally, you would want Grabovski at #2C I think but, if he signs in Calgary, he’s likely their best bet this season.

    You can never tell the timetable with kids like Monahan but his scouting reports are pretty glowing.

    Pronman thinks he might be a year or two away:

    “Monahan is a smart two-way player who has shined in the OHL over the past two seasons. His ability as an offensive playmaker is high end, as he has tremendous instincts, displaying the ability to make quality passes. Monahan regularly shows the ability to slow the game down.

    He controls play from the perimeter on the power play. He is patient, creative, and he does not simply rely on one dimension, either. He has good puck skills; while they still lag behind his hockey sense, he can make some defensemen miss.

    Monahan possesses good size (in order to shoulder off checks). If defenders try to overplay the pass, he has a great shot, and he can finish from medium range if given the chance.

    His skating is fairly average. He is not a total liability on his feet, but his skating stands out as the least impressive aspect of his game.

    Monahan projects as a quality defensive center, capable of winning faceoffs consistently. He does not have a clear developmental weakness in his game, which bodes well for a team that may be looking for him to make the transition to the NHL within a year or two.

  70. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Lucinius:
    I thought the Flames were confirmed as NOT being among the three teams Grabovski was interested in?

    Combine that with the possibility of them rushing Monahan and I don’t see the Flames emerging from the wilderness for awhile — especially not with Feaster in charge.

    The latest word is 3 teams…and it was the Jets who were ruled out.

    Calgary is still in the hunt.

    You also have to wonder if the Flames will be in on Cody Franson since the Leafs can’t afford to sign him.

  71. godot10 says:

    sliderule:
    Lucinius,

    The team regressed by most of the advanced stats even with the addition of Yak and Schultz and a very good season by Hall.
    This site has LT and a bunch of posters who are very analytical,yet very little is said or analyzed about systems

    Tactical hockey is all well and good, but in the end Quennville had to re-unite Toews and Kane and just damn the tactics and go mano-a-mano against Chara. Best against best.

    Tactical hockey will get you into the playoffs. It won’t win you cups.

    When you don’t have the horses, should you let the few horses you have run, like Krueger did, or do you use your good horses to protect your mules, like Renney did.

    Would tactical Renney have let Nugent-Hopkins try out a 200-foot 2-way game against the best players in the world like Krueger did? Krueger took off the leashes tactical Renney had on Hall. Eberle got minutes. Lots of minutes. Got to experience what playing a lot and fatigue and playing dinged does to his finish. Tactical Renney kept him fresh on the bench.

    Yep. Krueger didn’t give a damn about protecting his mules. And we should thank him for it. It forced Katz and Lowe to act.

    The fact is, we just don’t know if Krueger would have evolved to a more tactical approach with MacT and an experienced veteran assistant pushing back on some of his ideas. But it was Krueger who vanquished the inertia in the upper management of the Oilers. He got caught in the shitstorm he created, but then Krueger wasn’t playing safe, or being tactical, or trying to protect his job.

    Krueger was bold and embraced risk before MacT.

  72. theres oil in virginia says:

    I’m not convinced that the Flames really think they have a shot this year. I doubt they’d ever come out and admit it, but we’ll be able to tell by the moves they make, or don’t make.

    I really can’t understand why the Oilers would be comfortable with their center depth and I think MacT is blowing smoke when he says he is.

  73. BlacqueJacque says:

    Dead Cat Bounce,

    I can’t see Grabo going for just money at this point. Calgary is at least as unattractive a free agent destination as Edmonton was in 08/09 and 09/10. No chance of winning, rebuilding team in denial and of course Canadian remoteness and western conference travel. I think he feels he has something to prove and wants to do so on a team he can help bring to the playoffs, if not outright on a contender.

  74. Woodguy says:

    spoiler:
    Did He Who Shall Not Be Named just post something positive about an Oiler?

    *checks coffee for tabs of acid*

    If the lid is still on the whiskey bottle DeeEssEff can be pretty astute.

    I’m closer to him than LT in terms of Perron, but LT’s Reasonable Expectations are just so damn…….reasonable.

    If 89 can continue to improve to the point where the offence can flow through him (he’s had a lot of Hemsky, Penner and Hall in the last 5 years to help drive the bus) then that 2nd line can do some real damage.

    We’ll see.

    I can’t wait for it.

  75. commonfan14 says:

    godot10: Tactical hockey will get you into the playoffs. It won’t win you cups.

    I think they print this on the programs in St. Louis.

    On the Flames, it’s a little strange to think about them being in on Grabbo. They’ll likely have to give him a huge deal to get him, and he’d help them just enough to make their draft pick next year a little worse. It’s not like him or anyone else they’re going to acquire before next season will transform them back into contenders.

    I thought Feaster was on record saying that he’s finally on board with a full rebuild, but now they’re looking for band-aids?

    Kind of puzzling unless they’re looking to acquire Grabbo as an asset to flip for picks later after giving him every chance to pump up his numbers again.

  76. OilClog says:

    Kruger buried himself, I’ve never seen a team lose a lead so often and so badly before. I’m a little shocked no one seems to have really posted anything about the leads which we so so so often lost. There’s been conversation, but no real numbers.. guess I’ve just come to expect charts, graphs, numbers and glares in Smid’s directions “so what you stopped a puck with your teeth”. Kruger is a great motivator, speaker from all accounts. His top shelf in the NHL is assistant, no more.

    Perron played all games last season on a very good, tough St.Louis team. I’d at least pencil him in for 75games. I’m guessing he’s in the 30g-30a club next season. Ebs or Yak or Hemsky will be his other winger with Gags or RNH in the middle. Perron may be one of the luckiest players on the planet right now. Ebs playing to get on Team Canada, Yak to get on Team Russia. Very motivated players. I’d say any player on the top 2 lines.. Minimum a RE of 60pts this season. That top line is going to demand so much attention, a functioning 2nd line should be able to eat it up all day long. DAMN MY HOPES ARE UP!

  77. rickithebear says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Wideman, (though overpaid) and Giordano are pretty good

    Bounce i allways tell Flames fans at work that there forward sets are playoff calibre.

    Are well ahead of the oilers getting assets for there veterans.
    We did not: Spacek; Peca;etc.
    Most 1st round picks are in the NHL draft +2yr.

    But defence.
    Remeber when i said the Schultz’s were the 2nd worst D pair in the game.
    3.36GA/60 16.15 min a game -23 for 82 game season.

    PRETTY GOOD?
    3.81 GA/60 for 18.3 min a game that is a -37 pair for 82 gm season.

  78. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    rickithebear: Bounce i allways tell Flames fans at work that there forward sets are playoff calibre.

    Are well ahead of the oilers getting assets for there veterans.
    We did not: Spacek; Peca;etc.
    Most 1st round picks are in the NHL draft +2yr.

    But defence.
    Remeber when i said the Schultz’s were the 2nd worst D pair in the game.
    3.36GA/60 16.15 min a game -23 for 82 game season.

    PRETTY GOOD?
    3.81 GA/60 for 18.3 min a game that is a -37 pair for 82 gm season.

    Thier goaltending was atrocious last season.

    Kiprusoff was .882 and McDonald was .902.

    They may not have solved that problem but it could hardly be worse.

  79. supernova says:

    maudite:
    justDOit,

    I am willing to bet Calgary is in for a long walk it the wilderness and they have no chance as even getting a bearing until he is shown the door.

    Super,

    We are talking about massive Milbury-esque/Waddel/Mclean string of moves here.Yes no team does not have some missteps but man we’ve had a lot of them and very well might still be simply reshuffling the deck chairs instead of putting ol’ yeller out of his misery.

    Despite him building that team, Tallon was fired.
    NYI – fired and long road back to being on the verge
    NYR – tradewise and draft/develop (aside from the Nash deal) mostly good.Inserting expensive parts in hasn’t worked…While it’s definitely suprising Slats hasn’t been gassed yet, he batting average in general (mostly due to budget and destination)
    Ottawa and LA?Ottawa? – outside the Chara < Philips have they really made consistent poor bets at any point…not a cap team…great development and scouting…what am I overlooking from the top of my head?LA? slow march back to top..stanley…stocked farm system…Is there even one deal remotely close to 5 first round overalls for Vanek (luckily falling through).

    I still stand by my what I’m saying still.Not being obstinate it’s simply a matter of without outside powers and fate saving us, we would be in even unimaginably worse shape then we presently are and it’s going to take a lot to convince me we still might be suffering from some of our issues (over payment in terms/cash and over-priced whale chasing are on display thus far, and it’s early)

    maudite,

    I apologize for the delay, I am on vacation in Mccall, idaho of all places and it is absolutely beautiful here.

    I guess we look at things a little different. Let me go through the list I thought of off the top of my head.

    Ottawa

    Since making the Stanley cup Final, the ship was taking on water massively. The had lost Chara, because they focused for the time being on keeping Redden, which they soon realized was the wrong one to keep and let him go, but only because NYR offered more money. Murray was the coach in the cup final, and was given the GM job that offseason. His first three hires of coaches all were abysmal, John Paddock, Craig Hartsburg and Cory Clouson, I believe none of them have even held as high as position as a associate coach since. I can continue but this should sound a lot like the Oilers.

    Bad coaches, star players leaving, horrible goaltending= a sinking ship.

    Then came Murray’s saving grace Craig Anderson, and Paul Maclean.

    A goalie who had been passed over many times, as well as a coach that had also been passed over the last couple of years.

    Then comes Karlson, a smart trade for Turris. A very good farm system spits out way more than the average amount of players.

    Murray and Otttawa were very likely one Craig Anderson hot streak from being totally different.

    ——–

    What we see know is a very good draft and development system, and a team that surprised us a year ago, but then made good on that now. But wait Alfredson leaves after 20 years for a place he feels has a better chance to win.

    ——-

    We crucify Kevin Lowe and company for a lot of mistakes, which I agree that they have made. I am only saying we need to look outside our bubble and look deep into the other teams that garner praise and realise that line of mistakes is not all that different, it’s the fact we haven’t had as much successes yet,

    Maybe Perron is a home run or maybe he is one step in that path to improving, same for Ference, same for Eakins, same for MacT, and on and on.

    IMO the biggest mistake is hanging on to long after the cup run, and then last season for not cutting Whitney, Belanger, Peckham, Petrell, etc when the waiver wire was full at least adequate replacements or same level.

    I can break down each of the other examples I used but I think you might get my point….

  80. maudite says:

    supernova,

    Appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on that one. Can definitely follow your logic. Not converted 100% but your it’s a sound angle to take. We definitely are both early in the “for the love of christ stop trying to duck tape a magic solution in place to fight for 8th place again”. I still think we have far and above put ourselves squarely in a camp of management based ineptitude that very few have come close to achieving:

    1. saved from far too many bad deals by other party
    2. terrible asset management in the likes of souray, omark
    3. horrendous crimes of roster control (3 headed goalie, below NHL replacement level talent trucelence spots
    4. god awful whale hunting like a desperate guy at last call (on multiple occasions, with the cap implications if we would have won the sweepstakes potentially haunting us for a very long time)
    5 .consistently diminishing return on NHL level trades
    6. an alarming infatuation with magic beans (like a kid in junior high getting swindled out of very valuable rookie cards for a stack of worthless mcdonald’s hologram cards)

    This is not all really on MacT but at best he’s presently batting around average thus far. Clarkson deal would have likely sunk this ship. I also think perception of GM to the rest of the club is a thing he will really have to work far harder to overcome the thought that he’s not just another klowe puppet.

    cheers

  81. supernova says:

    maudite:
    supernova,

    Appreciate you taking the time to elaborate on that one. Can definitely follow your logic.Not converted 100% but your it’s a sound angle to take.We definitely are both early in the “for the love of christ stop trying to duck tape a magic solution in place to fight for 8th place again”.I still think we have far and above put ourselves squarely in a camp of management based ineptitude that very few have come close to achieving:

    1. saved from far too many bad deals by other party
    2. terrible asset management in the likes of souray, omark
    3. horrendous crimes of roster control (3 headed goalie, below NHL replacement level talent trucelence spots
    4. god awful whale hunting like a desperate guy at last call (on multiple occasions, with the cap implications if we would have won the sweepstakes potentially haunting us for a very long time)
    5 .consistently diminishing return on NHL level trades
    6. an alarming infatuation with magic beans (like a kid in junior high getting swindled out of very valuable rookie cards for a stack of worthless mcdonald’s hologram cards)

    This is not all really on MacT but at best he’s presently batting around average thus far.Clarkson deal would have likely sunk this ship.I also think perception of GM to the rest of the club is a thing he will really have to work far harder to overcome the thought that he’s not just another klowe puppet.

    cheers

    maudite,

    I almost feel weird defending the management team because I don’t feel they are the best out there, maybe I give the, to much of a room for error, but overall my philosophy is that management can’t do as much as most fans think they can, and that good management teams also make their fair amount of mistakes.

    But I want to give a go at defending your points. Being on a iPhone I can’t Copy and paste that well so I will do it point form.

    1) I sincerely believe that All management teams have a list of moves they are glad that didnt happen, the key is to have a list of ones completed that worked out well
    2) asset management is a tough one to defend, but I really don’t think Omark has had any real value out there, until he had back to back point producing seasons. These types of players that are small and skilled tend to be waiver available until they land in the right spot. History has shown numerous very skilled players can go through a lot before landing in the right place, if I were an opposing GM the only way I would trade for Omark was to get rid of a contract I don’t want,

    As for Souray, I think this was more of a point of protecting their integrity and they were willing to die for it. I agree completely that they should have took the high road and quietly shipped him out as opposed to wanting him to pay for his comments. I think they were so hyper sensitive after Pronger that they overprotected themselves.

    3) roster use is my biggest problem with the Tambo era. Although lots of good teams have problems with 3 goalie situations, I think this is more of pro scouting issue than anything. I believe you should enter a season with 5 capable Centers on the 22 man roster. The failure to do this last season, and then taking to long to react was what I think cost Tambo his job. If he had a injury replacement for Belanger / Horcoff within two games of the injuries we might still be in the Tambo era.

    4) whale hunting I think was away to show the league and themselves that Edmonton is an attractive market. This is in conjunction with them taking to long to realize they needed to rebuild, however many teams do this, but we don’t hear about the other teams as much.

    5) diminishing returns, I agree this is a pro scouting issue. I think our pro scouts see our players to high as do our fans. In doing this we make bad trades. Stoll and Greene for Visnovsky is defendable either way. Visnovsky for Whitney was not, it was made to please Pat Quinn, which was stupid.

    6) don’t know what you mean about magic beans but it made me laugh.

    I feel two ways about the clarkson deal if it would have happened. I will preface my thoughts in saying I am a very active reader of the business of sports, so I have more time for it. these type of players are very overpaid and very hard to get, 20 + and 100 PIMs with a in your face edge. If you don’t have one you are desperate to get them.

    lets say clarkson would have signed here for 5.5 times 6 years.

    We can reasonably assume we wouldn’t have Perron and would have kept paajarvi.

    he might make that contract pay in the first 2 years maybe three, but then will be overpaid and underused.

    this would help us for the short time on player procurement and having players slotted in good spots with toughness n the top 6. If this elevates us to a playoff spot in the first two years, then it is worth it. The cap wil be going up a lot and his cap hit percantage won’t be as big of factor. We can then buy him out or trade him with retaining some salary if need be in years 4, 5 or 6.

    I really think the Oilers can afford to do this and Katz has shown the willingness to buy out, or bury players that aren’t effective anymore, if clarkson had become less effective as the contract goes on, we certainly could afford to send him away in one way or another,

    In saying this I am glad the deal didnt happen but don’t think it’s as brutal as some might think

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