THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE (STILL)

The Oilers added another skill winger this summer and at this point have 5 terrific offensive options on the wings. Taylor Hall is the best Oiler in many, many years, and he’s just getting underway.

azorcan

NHL CAREER, PER 82 GAMES PLAYED

  1. Taylor Hall 31-38-69
  2. David Perron 20-28-48
  3. Ryan Smyth 26-30-56
  4. Ben Eager 9-8-17

Hall’s boxcars are outstanding and going north, that my friends is the single best arrow in the organization. God bless Mr and Mrs Hall. Perron’s an established NHL player and a pretty good bet to score 40+ points this season. And then there’s a big drop off. I included Joensuu and Jones in the RW look, but one of those guys might end up here too. Smyth is my choice for 3line L (with Gordon and Hemsky) because I think Smyth will have a better year with a full training camp. He’s 37, he’s not dead, and in the last full season he played 94 did some good things. Ben Eager has a real chance here, the depth chart is setting up nicely for him.

AHL LW DEPTH CHART

  • Ryan Hamilton 56, 30-18-48 in AHL last season (also played 10 NHL games) he’s 28, 6.02 230
  • Ryan Martindale 41, 6-8-14 in AHL last season; he’s 21, 6.03 207
  • Curtis Hamilton  61, 5-4-9 in AHL last season; he’s 21, 6.02 206
  • Austin Fyten 14-29-43 in the ECHL this season; he’s 22, 6.02 200
  • Kale Kessy 60, 21-22-43 in WHL last season; he’s 20, 6.03 192

As things stand right now, the Oilers are going to give someone from the 2010 entry draft (Martindale, Hamilton, Pitlick) a feature role in Oklahoma City. A guess at the top 6F would be Arcobello and Miller at center, Rajala and Nesbitt on RW and Hamilton plus Martindale on LW. There are some real holes in the roster, but guys like CJ Stretch have been signed and may be of use.

Ryan Hamilton is my ‘player to watch’ among the OKC Baron group. I spoke to his agent Tom Lynn last week and Lynn told me that Hamilton earned his NHL time by being very physical on the 4th line and delivering everything asked of him. That’s a similar story to what we’ve seen in Corey Potter (the Renney edition) and I think Hamilton (and Acton) have some momentum going into camp. Dallas Eakins won’t hand Hamilton a job, but he could very well earn one against this competition.

omark ferguson 

We don’t talk about Linus Omark much anymore, but the Oilers still retain his rights. I very much doubt the Oilers would bring him back, but the club did extend him a qualifying offer one summer ago–which I believe means the Oilers felt there was interest in him. MacT told Jason Gregor earlier this summer that he’d be open to trading Omark but there had been little interest. We would have seen something by now if a trade was in the works, so I expect Omark will pass into free agency next summer without much fanfare. A rather bizarre end to a pretty talented Oiler career.

(Barons photos by Rob Ferguson, all rights reserved).

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

dogs

More hockey on today’s show (Team 1260, 10am), as we wrap up the summer Oiler activity and look a little more globally to what the NHL has done overall during the last few weeks. Scheduled to appear:

  • Michael Spiedel from Hockey Symposium. Speeds is the Oilogosphere expert on the cba and things like waiver eligibility and the draft. He also has a keen eye on the Oilers and the NHL in general. 
  • Lisa McRitchie from Kukla’s Korner. Lisa follows the draft closely and has had an opportunity in the past to talk to players like Greg Chase about their NHL dreams. We’ll discuss the 2013 draft from Lisa’s perspective, plus the Oilers and the new season ahead.
  • Travis Yost from Hockeybuzz. I’m still wondering about an ‘Ales Hemsky to Ottawa’ trade, and Yost will bring the answers. We’ll also talk about the new conference and slotting the Oilers.
  • Matt Henderson from Archeologuy. We’ll talk Gagner, draft and that tough new conference.

I’m also working on a couple of other guests, we’ll see if I can secure them before 10 this morning.  10-1260 via text and @Lowetide on twitter, looking forward to the show!

clifford

One item we should continue to follow closely: Kyle Clifford. The Kings are really up against the cap now, there’s zero wiggle room and Lombardi isn’t going to enter a season with nowhere to go on a Stanley-calibre team. Clifford could be heading out of town for just a pick or a prospect, and the Oilers I’m sure would be all over that one.

I wrote about it here, could happen.

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72 Responses to "THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE (STILL)"

  1. RexLibris says:

    The question on the Clifford deal is the ask.

    For Lombardi to trade him within the new division I think he’d want more than to trade him elsewhere. My guess is he’d look at a forward prospect to bring along in time to add to their bottom six. Pitlick is the closest to the NHL that fits what Lombardi likes (size + speed), but I believe that other teams have better “Pitlicks” out there ready to deal away.

    Not sure how the Oilers sweeten that pot without their 2014 2nd rounder and likely hesitant to move their 1st for a player like Clifford.

    If it happens, then Gordon – Clifford – Hemsky would be one very interesting line to watch. Or Clifford – Gagner – Yakupov? Either way, adding Clifford gives Eakins options, something no Oilers coach has had in the top six (aside from the pick your poison types of options) since forever.

  2. Lowetide says:

    Rex: They could trade Marincin. I know the Kings have lots of defensemen but Marincin is a solid asset and could be moved for something good in a year or two.

  3. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    If we walk down an alternative universe for a moment:

    Oilers don’t qualify Omark. Does he land an NHL contract elsewhere sometime in the last year?

    either the Oil are asking too much, or there genuinely is 0 interest.

    All of which sucks. I’d love to see him play again with a chip on his shoulder in the NHL. too much talent there.

    ——

    Ryan Hamilton

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=11&s=13&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=TOR&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67+11+12+13+14+15+16#

    looks like mid-pack QC, modest ZS (which he drove the right way), pretty rough looking Corsirel and On and a lot of luck (PDO) in his very tiny sample size from last year)…

    can we expect much more out of him?

    ———

    Clifford. yes please.

  4. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Lowetide,

    I hate the idea of moving Marincin… to me he’s right there with Klefbom and Nurse long term. I don’t feel like other teams will value him properly.

    Musil on the other hand could have more perceived value than real value. GMs tend to like pedigree, and the fact that he played a shut down role on a championship level team 2 years in a row. For this reason I think he’s an ideal trade chip… think of him as our Teubert, but with a dad that played in the NHL.

  5. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Rex: They could trade Marincin. I know the Kings have lots of defensemen but Marincin is a solid asset and could be moved for something good in a year or two.

    I don’t know if I make that trade.

    I’d rather bundle lesser lights or magic beans.

    3 for 1!!

  6. Lowetide says:

    Ca$h-Money!:
    Lowetide,

    I hate the idea of moving Marincin…to me he’s right there with Klefbom and Nurse long term.I don’t feel like other teams will value him properly.

    Musil on the other hand could have more perceived value than real value.GMs tend to like pedigree, and the fact that he played a shut down role on a championship level team 2 years in a row.For this reason I think he’s an ideal trade chip… think of him as our Teubert, but with a dad that played in the NHL.

    Marincin is now behind Nurse and Klefbom on the prospect chart, with Petry and J Schultz already in the NHL. We can paint a top 4D without Marincin, he’s the best prospect the Oilers can trade without impacting their future in a major way.

    I think that’s what it takes to get Clifford. Maybe a little more (draft pick).

  7. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I don’t know if I make that trade.

    I’d rather bundle lesser lights or magic beans.

    3 for 1!!

    Lombardi is maybe the best GM in the game. Musil has some issues, he’s not going to get it done.

  8. theres oil in virginia says:

    Interesting (to me anyway) that you included the from-the-trunk POV image above. When Rom and Spoiler debated Kubrick a few posts back, one (Rom, I think) pointed out the use of one point perspective by Kubrick. Upon mentioning that to a friend of mine who is also a bit of a movie buff, he mentioned that it was similar to the use of the above by Tarantino. Apparently it shows up quite often in his films.

  9. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ca$h-Money!: Musil on the other hand could have more perceived value than real value. GMs tend to like pedigree, and the fact that he played a shut down role on a championship level team 2 years in a row. For this reason I think he’s an ideal trade chip… think of him as our Teubert, but with a dad that played in the NHL.

    This. Of the young D prospects of highish value real and/or perceived (Nurse, Klef, Marincin, Gernat and Musil), he’s the one I’d trade without reservation. The up-side isn’t there.

    The others I think I’d only part with for a bigger piece.

  10. Lowetide says:

    Guys, there’s no way. If we know Musil’s issues then sure as bloody hell Lombardi knows them. Why would he trade a perfectly good NHL winger for a defenseman with issues? He’s already got his own prospects with issues.

  11. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Lombardi is maybe the best GM in the game. Musil has some issues, he’s not going to get it done.

    But that’s why you bundle Musil with another prospect and a pick.

    Agreed that you can’t snow Lombardi… just can’t. but he may see value in Musil, Pitlick/Moroz/Kessy/etc. and a 3rd.

  12. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide: Marincin is now behind Nurse and Klefbom on the prospect chart, with Petry and J Schultz already in the NHL. We can paint a top 4D without Marincin, he’s the best prospect the Oilers can trade without impacting their future in a major way.

    Marincin is probably behind Nurse in quality, but not, I think, in arrival-date.

  13. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: But that’s why you bundle Musil with another prospect and a pick.

    Agreed that you can’t snow Lombardi… just can’t. but he may see value in Musil, Pitlick/Moroz/Kessy/etc. and a 3rd.

    Do you see value in those guys?

  14. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Guys, there’s no way. If we know Musil’s issues then sure as bloody hell Lombardi knows them. Why would he trade a perfectly good NHL winger for a defenseman with issues? He’s already got his own prospects with issues.

    alright, alright. can I still cry when he leaves?

  15. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Lowetide,

    I understand that, but trade’s are negotiations. In a negotiation you hold chips of varied values; it’s easy to forget that the other side sees your chips but doesn’t necessarily have the same interpretation of their value. In hockey, the tendency is for other teams to have some knowledge of opposing teams players, but obviously not the depth of understanding of the team currently holding the chip… this is amplified when we are talking about prospects. What further distorts value is that these players, prior to being prospects of one team or another, were likely scouted by the opposing organization, so it’s possible that their assessment of value is clouded either to a minor or major degree by older scouting reports & perceptions (something the Tambo regime was famous for).

    You and I understand that Marincin is substantially better than Musil. I’m not sure other teams will see it that way. They won’t have the same understanding of his skating issues, plus their opinion is likely to be inadvisably bolstered by the fact that his dad is Frank Musil (teams generally like pedigree) and the fact that he played a prominent role on a winner (he knows what it takes to win).

    What I’m saying is:

    Marincin real value: 8/10
    Marincin perceived value: 7/10 (not heavily scouted, 1 year in AHL when attention was diverted by wonder kids)

    Musil real value: 4.5/10 (yet to play in AHL, arguably too slow for pro, limited offense)
    Musil perceived value: 6/10

    The real gap between Marincin and Musil is huge, but the other team may not see it that way. For this reason Musil is our best prospect trade chip, because there is a real chance for us to convert his perceived value from other teams into real value for us.

    I would be shopping Musil heavily.

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Do you see value in those guys?

    yes. limited but it’s still there. the pick has serious value. Musil has value. and somekind of forward like Pitlick has pedigree value and is still within his “show me” window…

    still… Marincin is probably worth more than all that. at least, he is to me.

    ps. how did you manage that italics? magic?

  17. Captain Smarmy says:

    I agree that Lombardi will likely demand and get a hockey trade out of a cap trade situation but I don’t see the need to paying a high pick and a good prospect for a guy with a career high 14 points. (Even if he is trending upwards)

    Plus he’ll likely command a few bucks.

  18. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ca$h-Money!: The real gap between Marincin and Musil is huge, but the other team may not see it that way. For this reason Musil is our best prospect trade chip, because there is a real chance for us to convert his perceived value from other teams into real value for us.
    I would be shopping Musil heavily.

    I completely agree with this, however, I think LT might be right that Lombardi isn’t the target.

    Maybe Nonis would be a good target.

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Captain Smarmy: Plus he’ll likely command a few bucks.

    That’s the other question. We are trading for an unsigned player. We are basically just trading for RFA rights. that should drive the price down some (not a lot but some).

    the other question is going to be… once acquired… what do we pay him?

  20. wheatnoil says:

    I wonder if Tambellini will get a job GMing somewhere. He’s a guy we could probably snow in a deal.

  21. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    on a one or two year deal, not much. Trevor Lewis played a similar role and just signed with LA, he would be the comparable I’d start with.

  22. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: yes. limited but it’s still there. the pick has serious value. Musil has value. and somekind of forward like Pitlick has pedigree value and is still within his “show me” window…

    still… Marincin is probably worth more than all that. at least, he is to me.

    ps. how did you manage that italics? magic?

    Yeah, more and more, I want to see the final step of Marincin’s development be with the Oilers. He really could be good.

    The italics are part of the limited set of html that work in the comments box. (Not sure why the table tools aren’t included?) Anyway, you can see them listed at the bottom and it’s the leftarrow-i-rightarrow that gives italics. To end italics, leftarrow-/i-rightarrow.

  23. Bushed says:

    MacT made some comment awhile back that suggested the door wasn’t completely closed on Omark, but seemed to suggest that it depended on Omark to a great extent. I don’t know if that meant Omark’s play, expectations, or attitude or something else had to change–MacT didn’t elaborate.

    Omark seems like a really competitive skilled player who hates to lose. He is relentless on the puck, and although he isn’t the biggest guy on the ice, he plays physical. Isn’t this the player type we want? (see Youtube video from Europe where Omark gets penalty, is pissed off, serves penalty, gets out, scores goal and then flips the puck at the other team’s bench—that’s attitude!!)

    I was at the game against Tampa Bay when he made “the move” on the shootout. I’m not suggesting that we keep him based on just the hotdog factor, but man was that building electric when he stepped up for the shootout–everyone was on their feet and you could cut the excitement with a knife!

    This guy is NOT Robbie Schremp redux–way more skills in the toolbox, and not a lazy player.

    I hope he at least gets one more training camp. It would be a shame to see him go for nothing. Timing does not seem to be Omark’s friend…

    Any insights here LT?

  24. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    wheatnoil:
    I wonder if Tambellini will get a job GMing somewhere. He’s a guy we could probably snow in a deal.

    Haven’t heard from him. I could see him Assisting a GM and doing fine elsewhere. Renney found a soft landing. Some people thrive just under the radar.

    I didn’t hear from him at the draft, but I was delighted to see his son get called. He must have been very proud. Actually, his son would have been a nice mid round choice for us.

    Ca$h-Money!:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    on a one or two year deal, not much.Trevor Lewis played a similar role and just signed with LA, he would be the comparable I’d start with.

    never underestimate an Oiler to overpay someone. MacT’s Jones contract has me leery.

    theres oil in virginia: Yeah, more and more, I want to see the final step of Marincin’s development be with the Oilers.He really could be good.

    The italics are part of the limited set of html that work in the comments box.(Not sure why the table tools aren’t included?)Anyway, you can see them listed at the bottom and it’s the leftarrow-i-rightarrow that gives italics.To end italics, leftarrow-/i-rightarrow.

    I don’t want to see him go either. . . the gobble-d-gook at the bottom is basically nonsense to me. thanks for explaining it.

  25. Bar_Qu says:

    The thing about bidding for Clifford is remembering the Oil won’t be the only team trying to acquire him. Bid too low and you are out. The trick is to figure out who is the best rated prospect you can let go without negatively impacting your team, plus having a good counter to the other team’s ask. If MacT can do that without giving other team’s an in to negotiation, then he can get his guy. Start too low and he ends up in Nashville.

  26. shawwwood says:

    How much would it cost to sign Clifford?
    If LA signs Clifford they would have 25 contracts on their active roster including 9 defensemen.
    If they waive/demote/trade the bottom 2 contracts in order to get down to 23 that would leave them with $ 1,688,106 (cap geek).
    Is that enough to sign Clifford?
    Did Lombardi really acquire Carcillo with the knowledge that he would have to move Clifford?

  27. theres oil in virginia says:

    Bushed:
    Omark seems like a really competitive skilled player who hates to lose. He is relentless on the puck, and although he isn’t the biggest guy on the ice, he plays physical.

    This guy is NOT Robbie Schremp redux–way more skills in the toolbox, and not a lazy player.

    Definitely. I remember watching him backcheck. The one that sticks out to me was where he raced back, caught the guy and took a hooking penalty. The effort was there, he just sucked at the implementation. Seems to me that’s fixable. If a guy’s willing to backcheck, how hard could it be to teach him how to do it effectively? Something else must be going on in the background is all I can figure.

  28. G Money says:

    - Clifford is only being moved because of the cap issue. If there is no cap issue, he’s not traded

    - What we have to pay for Clifford depends on what other GMs are offering. If no-one is offering anything more than a 7th round pick, then that’s what he’ll get traded for.

    - I agree with Cash Money‘s value assessment. Marincin’s perceived value is less than his real value, and Musil is likely the opposite.

    So yeah – trade Musil for Clifford but not Marincin. Why overpay on a cap-forced trade, when there are reasonable UFA alternatives available for nothing more than cash?

  29. Lowetide says:

    Bushed:

    MacT made some comment awhile back that suggested the door wasn’t completely closed on Omark, but seemed to suggest that it depended on Omark to a great extent. I don’t know if that meant Omark’s play, expectations, or attitude or something else had to change–MacT didn’t elaborate.

    Omark seems like a really competitive skilled player who hates to lose. He is relentless on the puck, and although he isn’t the biggest guy on the ice, he plays physical. Isn’t this the player type we want? (see Youtube video from Europe where Omark gets penalty, is pissed off, serves penalty, gets out, scores goal and then flips the puck at the other team’s bench—that’s attitude!!)

    I was at the game against Tampa Bay when he made “the move” on the shootout. I’m not suggesting that we keep him based on just the hotdog factor, but man was that building electric when he stepped up for the shootout–everyone was on their feet and you could cut the excitement with a knife!

    This guy is NOT Robbie Schremp redux–way more skills in the toolbox, and not a lazy player.

    I hope he at least gets one more training camp. It would be a shame to see him go for nothing. Timing does not seem to be Omark’s friend…

    Any insights here LT?

    This bird has flown.

  30. Maverick says:

    With MacT saying he is mostly done with his roster after signing Gagner, I hope he hasn’t turned off the cell phone for the summer. If indeed Clifford is available, MacT should be in there inquiring. I would trade Marcinin for Clifford, “Bird in the Hand” kind of thinking. Clifford is established, is exactly what this team needs. It’s not like the Oilers don’t have defenseman in the system, do we really know Marincin will even pan out? Maybe Gernat will be better, or Simpson? Klefbom and Nurse are ahead of Marincin already. Give up something to get something.

    As for the Gagner signing, I have to clarify I like Gagner as a player, still think they can’t win with 6′ and under top 6 forwards. Time will tell.

  31. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    This is an amazing answer and furthers the speculation that N. Schultz might be leaving… he’s not mentioned at all under the rubric you would expect:

    Gregor: You bring back Denis Grebeshkov, add Belov, and Ference, clearly puck possession was your main thing. You mentioned lack of size up front. Did you want to add somebody with size on the back end?

    MacTavish: Well, I think that when you have Ladislav Smid and Andrew Ference, both guys that can play a physical game we’re okay. Size is one aspect of it, but it’s the willingness to play a physical game. Laddy certainly fills that need for us. Andrew is a guy that plays with a lot of bite and has some physical play.

    Our team, we’re too far down the road of playing a skill game. We want to play a real fast game. We want defence that will pivot and skate hard back for pucks and get the puck moving quickly, transition the puck up quickly to our forwards. We’ve got a highly skilled group, I think, and if we can get back quicker for pucks –one area I thought we were real weak in last year was our ability to retrieve pucks quickly and institute the breakout, get the puck moving D to D, get it up ice quickly and get it in the hands of our forwards we should be fine.

    I really thought our team was a very easy team to apply pressure to. I know that we’ve made improvements in that area. That’s the way I like to play. I don’t like a chip and chase game. I like a team that can make three, or four, or five passes and open the ice up, attack and build some speed in our attack and that’s what we’re going to be.

    Per a conversation about Cherry and dump and chase from some weeks ago… it is even clearer now to me that MacT is going against the Cherry mould.

  32. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    More good news:

    Gregor: Would Oscar Klefbom have to blow your socks off, for him not to start the season in the American Hockey League?

    MacTavish: That’s going to be up to Oscar and the coaches. I’m anticipating Oscar is a very, very good player for us at training camp and where it goes from there, will be dependant on Oscar. We’ve said before that there’s nothing wrong, it’s actually a benefit, to have players get some seasoning in the American Hockey League. Oscar’s played against men, so maybe that’s less important with him. He sure looked good at that development camp, as you would anticipate, playing against some lesser experienced guys. What I saw last year, when I saw him play over in Sweden, was a pretty developed player.

    this pivots off his earlier talk about players benefiting from the AHL.

  33. jake70 says:

    Bushed:

    It would be a shame to see him go for nothing. Timing does not seem to be Omark’s friend…

    Omark did not come over for the 09-10 season….someone correct me but didn’t some of that have to do with lack of a 1-way deal offered to him? If that is true, that they wanted him here at that time and he declined over the 1-way deal, then that’s on his agent and himself.

  34. Bushed says:

    jake70,

    I’m not sure of the exact details, but yeah, there were some contract issues along the way. I’m not suggesting he and his agent are without fault, but the timing & circumstances have been awful for him.

    Remember HOPE? It seems it got PO’d somehow, if both PRV and Omark are now gone.

    My jersey collection (2 Guerins, 2 Omarks, 3 Hemskys, several practice jerseys and an unfinished one that was supposed to become a Thoresen) will need to be replenished.

    I’m almost afraid to say that my last addition was an Eberle jersey!

  35. Hammers says:

    Lowetide: Marincin is now behind Nurse and Klefbom on the prospect chart, with Petry and J Schultz already in the NHL. We can paint a top 4D without Marincin, he’s the best prospect the Oilers can trade without impacting their future in a major way.

    I think that’s what it takes to get Clifford. Maybe a little more (draft pick).

    I don’t see McT trading Marachin for Clifford as he can be a 3-4 in a couple of years . Sooner stay as is unless we can do a combination of say Pitlick & a 2015 2nd . I see Marachin ahead of Smid in upcoming years . Schultz Petry Nurse Klefbom Marachin & Smid would be one great looking “D”.

  36. Rocknrolla says:

    Ca$h-Money!:
    Lowetide,

    I understand that, but trade’s are negotiations.In a negotiation you hold chips of varied values; it’s easy to forget that the other side sees your chips but doesn’t necessarily have the same interpretation of their value.In hockey, the tendency is for other teams to have some knowledge of opposing teams players, but obviously not the depth of understanding of the team currently holding the chip… this is amplified when we are talking about prospects.What further distorts value is that these players, prior to being prospects of one team or another, were likely scouted by the opposing organization, so it’s possible that their assessment of value is clouded either to a minor or major degree by older scouting reports & perceptions (something the Tambo regime was famous for).

    You and I understand that Marincin is substantially better than Musil.I’m not sure other teams will see it that way.They won’t have the same understanding of his skating issues, plus their opinion is likely to be inadvisably bolstered by the fact that his dad is Frank Musil (teams generally like pedigree) and the fact that he played a prominent role on a winner (he knows what it takes to win).

    What I’m saying is:

    Marincin real value: 8/10
    Marincin perceived value: 7/10 (not heavily scouted, 1 year in AHL when attention was diverted by wonder kids)

    Musil real value: 4.5/10 (yet to play in AHL, arguably too slow for pro, limited offense)
    Musil perceived value: 6/10

    The real gap between Marincin and Musil is huge, but the other team may not see it that way.For this reason Musil is our best prospect trade chip, because there is a real chance for us to convert his perceived value from other teams into real value for us.

    I would be shopping Musil heavily.

    Exactly!

  37. commonfan14 says:

    Lowetide: This bird has flown.

    And it’s a shame.

    Really would have loved somehow seeing Linus set up Yak for a crazy OT goal one day.

    They would have had to step up construction downtown what with Rexall’s roof all collapsed.

  38. Gerta Rauss says:

    jake70,

    That’s how I remember it as well-he took a large payday in Europe that season(I don’t blame him) and the following year he was breaking in with Hall,Ebs, and PRV, and he got the short end of the stick wrt icetime.

    Omark made a decision(play in Europe) and he missed his chance with the Oilers.

    I can’t remember if LT did a “bad timing” post or not, but it applies to Omark.

  39. Rocknrolla says:

    Bushed:
    MacT made some comment awhile back that suggested the door wasn’t completely closed on Omark, but seemed to suggest that it depended on Omark to a great extent. I don’t know if that meant Omark’s play, expectations, or attitude or something else had to change–MacT didn’t elaborate.

    Omark seems like a really competitive skilled player who hates to lose. He is relentless on the puck, and although he isn’t the biggest guy on the ice, he plays physical. Isn’t this the player type we want? (see Youtube video from Europe where Omark gets penalty, is pissed off, serves penalty, gets out, scores goal and then flips the puck at the other team’s bench—that’s attitude!!)

    I was at the game against Tampa Bay when he made “the move” on the shootout. I’m not suggesting that we keep him based on just the hotdog factor, but man was that building electric when he steppedup for the shootout–everyone was on their feet and you could cut the excitement with a knife!

    This guy is NOT Robbie Schremp redux–way more skills in the toolbox, and not a lazy player.

    I hope he at least gets one more training camp. It would be a shame to see him go for nothing. Timing does not seem to be Omark’s friend…

    Any insights here LT?

    Can they not invite him to camp? Would be nice to have HOM compete and play some preseason. Maybe that sparks some interest?

  40. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Really don’t think David Musil will cut it…

    I guess we can be thankful we selected him over Boone Jenner, Ty Rattie or say John Gibson or Brandon Saad.

    This organization is way behind the curve because of its 2nd round and later drafting…

    Picking 1st overall and nothing else….where would this organization be if we could just pick one gem in the 2nd round in our “rebuilding’ years….

    3 years of picking first or second in the 2nd round…..

  41. denny33 says:

    Hammers,

    To be honest,I really like that D core you outlined – Schultz, Nurse, Klefbom, Petry Marincin and Smid….and I think that is exactly how it will be…no true #1 D man just a high level – set of D-man.

    Puckmover with every pairing…Nurse and Smid to be the break the cycle – get the puck back guys.

  42. denny33 says:

    commonfan14,

    It would be a shame…

    And I would love to hear an explanation as to why he would not be given a final
    *opportunity* to attend training camp.

    What -exactly – would be the downside to letting him try out?

  43. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 2m

    Paul Ranger’s deal with the Leafs is for 1 year…around $1 mil.

  44. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    denny33:
    What -exactly – would be the downside to letting him try out?

    Something about “character”

  45. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dead Cat Bounce:
    Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger 2m

    Paul Ranger’s deal with the Leafs is for 1 year…around $1 mil.

    great deal for them.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=428332

    Great for Ranger. Hope he has a long career ahead of him.

  46. khildahl says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Agreed that you can’t snow Lombardi…

    …anymore.

  47. commonfan14 says:

    khildahl,

    Agreed.

    Not sure what the narrative you hear in some places (not necessarily here) that the Kings have been beating the Oilers in trades is based on.

    I’d argue that Vis for Stoll and Greene was a clear win, especially since Stoll was an RFA with major consussion issues at the time (issues which, unfortunately, may be rearing their ugly head for him now).

    I think a season and a 1/4 of Penner for a mid-first rounder was a win (Teubert busting doesn’t diminish the value of the first, which was the real asset obtained). Others may disagree, but I don’t think you can argue that it was a clear loss.

    And I think Smyth for a 4th line C who wasn’t working out here and a 7th was a win-win.

    The draft trade will take time to judge, but both sides seem happy with the value they got.

    I’ve got no fears about us continuing to deal with the Kings.

  48. Logan91 says:

    If anyone is looking for a good laugh today (and a hilarious burn on 80 % of everyone who posts in OilersNation), check this out:

    http://oilersnation.com/2013/7/24/a-trade-proposers-dream

  49. knighttown says:

    Thought the most interesting quote in that MacT article posted above was about being “too far along in the process (of building a team around skill) to change now.”

    I’m really glad to hear this.

    I’ve been calling the Oilers the Edmonton Doppelgangers for years. On paper there is this identity of a fast and skilled team with a great offense but the fact is, the Oilers haven’t finished in the top half of the league in Goals/game since 2004. Good teams have an identity and their entire M.O. is to impose their game plan on the opposing team. The Oilers identity has been to play whatever game their opposition excels at.

    Far too often the Oilers have tailored their games to match an opponents strengths:
    -LA or SJ comes to town and the Oilers dress all their big guys, play hard and conservatively and lose 2-0.
    -They head out to Atlanta or Washington and the Oilers dress their skill guys and try (and sometimes win) 6-4.

    This team’s roster leaves no doubt their identity should be the Western Conference’s version of Washington circa 2009. They scored 3.8 goals per game when second place was 3.2. No doubt they were an excellent team that year too but this pinnacle came after a few years of creating that identity even if it didn’t always lead to success. Maybe 3.4 G/g and 3.2 GA/game.

    I think a realistic goal of the Oilers is to become the second highest scoring team in the Western Conference this season behind Chicago. Almost certainly they’ll be in the bottom 4 or 5 in goals allowed in the West to accomplish but this is the right direction towards a Chicago season where they were second in the NHL in goals/game and led in GA/game.

    You’ll know a lot on Saturday night, October 5th when the Oilers head in to GM place. If the “under” takes it in that game it means Vancouver got to play their way and that’s not a great sign for the season to come.

  50. Bushed says:

    For the OmarK fans, McCurdy has a nice article over on the Edmonton Journal site.

    (PS the online poll showed about 2/3 would like to see Omark back…sigh…)

  51. regwald says:

    David Perron!

    Zona really pulls out the knives here, questioning Perron’s professionalism. Seems a bit over the top. The original article I saw was out of St. Louis

    David Perron Original Article!

    When someone starts talking about Keith Tkachuk as a beacon of professionalism, I have a problem. The veteran who’s paid big dollars and shows up 35+ pounds overweight for training camp not to mention his hold outs, etc.

    I prefer an athlete with some level of confidence and cockiness in his abilities. Sure, maybe he wasn’t polished, but you put the puck in the net and put up points, then we can worry about the rest.

  52. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 30m
    Gilbert Brule will be attending Phoenix’s training camp

  53. Logan91 says:

    regwald: David Perron! Zona really pulls out the knives here, questioning Perron’s professionalism. Seems a bit over the top. The original article I saw was out of St. Louis

    I saw that this morning. He’s just joking though, no?

  54. spoiler says:

    Dirk Hoag of SB Nation has his Super Schedule out for 2013-14, providing us with Total Travel miles and travel miles on Back-to-Backs for all NHL teams.

    The report can be found here:

    http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2013/7/19/4539874/2013-2014-nhl-schedule-super-travel-miles-back-to-back-games

  55. Profit says:

    regwald,

    I’m confused. Is your sarcasm detector malfunctioning? Or are you trolling me by posting that the Zona article is serious, and thus proving my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning?

    This was a pretty hilarious send-up of media professionalism with respect to throwing Perron under the bus.

  56. G Money says:

    regwald: Zona really pulls out the knives here, questioning Perron’s professionalism.

    You know it was a satire, right? He’s mocking (and rightfully so) those who question Perron’s professionalism and use as the basis “white skates” etc. I’m not usually a big fan of his writing, but he nailed this one …

    knighttown: Good teams have an identity and their entire M.O. is to impose their game plan on the opposing team.

    I don’t disagree with your conclusions, but its worth bearing in mind that the Oilers are building a skill team model, but till now have been quite early in the process. The dominant skill players will be Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yak, and Schultz; and skilled but not imposingly so are Gagner and Petry. Of that group, only the first and second last had good seasons.

    I do expect this season, if the Oilers are to be successful, they will indeed have to impose the high speed/high skill ethos on other teams. In order to do that, RNH will have to go supernova (which I fully expect he’ll do, which in turn will make Hall and Eberle all the more dangerous), Yak will have to pick up where he left off last season, and Schulz will have to pick up where he started off last season.

    But if that does happen – yikes, win or lose, this is going to be one fun firewagon of a season.

  57. ASkoreyko says:

    Dead Cat Bounce:
    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 30m
    Gilbert Brule will be attending Phoenix’s training camp

    I love it when you post this stuff.

    It is like a personally curated Twitter feed that no one wants or cares about. Bravo.

  58. ASkoreyko says:

    regwald,

    Zona is clearly being sarcastic, but like point out above I am not sure now if you are also being sarcastic.

    Perron has been great so far, very active on Twitter trying to reach out to Oiler fans and clearly showing he is excited about coming to Edmonton.

  59. regwald says:

    Profit:
    regwald,

    I’m confused. Is your sarcasm detector malfunctioning? Or are you trolling me by posting that the Zona article is serious, and thus proving my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning?

    This was a pretty hilarious send-up of media professionalism with respect to throwing Perron under the bus.

    ok, maybe my sarcasm detector is broken. I read the Zona article yesterday and thought it was Perron bashing and didn’t see the humour at all. Guess I will have to reread with that in mind. Apologies.

  60. BG14 says:

    RE: The Zona piece. Definitely sarcasm, although I didn’t find the original piece to be all that horrible. The writer is clearly taking more out of the little things (white skates? Come on…), but there seems to be a concerted effort to also say that Perron is a good person and just raw. Something that he himself admitted to. The article includes positive statements about David from every person interviewed.

  61. Numenius says:

    From my first read of the Zona article, I have to admit I wasn’t sure it was sarcasm. It sounded like something a journalist could be dumb enough really to think (and I didn’t know anything about the author to judge).

    Re-reading it now, though, the signs are more obvious than I thought, especially the last paragraph, which I only skimmed the first time. lol.

    “Individualism leads to creativity, levity and adulation. None of those things are necessary in hockey and by stamping out individualism in it’s early stages, a keen club like the St. Louis Blues is able to win Stanley Cup after Stanley Cup and dominate the NHL with a pious reverence for veterans, recklessness and professionalism. The rest of the NHL, and especially the Edmonton Oilers, can learn lessons in winning ways from the St. Louis Blues.”

  62. godot10 says:

    I don’t see an LA cap problem.

    They can start the season with 21 players on roster, and almost immediately put Mitchell on LTIR.

    Toffoli starts in the minors. Carcillo, Schultz, and Ellerby can all be waived and sent to the minors.

    Heck, they might just delay signing Clifford until they have Mitchell on LTIR. There is no rule against Clifford attending camp without a contract. A little nod and wink between Lombardi and Clifford’s agent is all that is required.

  63. G Money says:

    BG14: The article includes positive statements about David from every person interviewed.

    This is why the article is deserving of such derision.

    If you were to just read the various quotes in the article, what might you conclude about Perron? Young, talented, confident kid. Came to St Louis, worked hard, scored a lot, was a bit of a free spirit, matured and became more professional as he got older, lost some game after a serious head injury. You could write that same article about many high skill players in the league, and some of those articles (e.g. Kane) would be much much worse. Maybe the most shocking part of the article is that this kid spent more practice time on the ice than anyone else, and some of the other players didn’t like it. Wow.

    It’s what the article does with that baseline material that’s so deserving of mockery. The snide little turns of phrase: “uneasy fit” … “concerns of immaturity and cockiness”, that turn a typical story into a smear job.

    Perhaps as an encore the author could write an article about Mother Theresa. He could subtitle it “She did some good but never truly fit in”. Then the article could point out her achievements but ensure “balance” in the article by pointing out that she had terrible fashion sense, and never really maximized her marketing opportunities.

  64. G Money says:

    G Money: Theresa

    -> Teresa! Sorry…

  65. Pajamah says:

    I’ve been taking a shit-kicking over at ON today.

    Can I hang out here awhile?

  66. Bushed says:

    ASkoreyko,

    Disagree.

    I don’t follow Twitter, so I like these updates.

    Thanks for posting them, DCB.

  67. russ99 says:

    Omark and the 1-way deal is a big sticking point. He felt he got shafted out of a spot in two straight training camps and would rather play on big ice showcasing his skills in Europe than against a bunch of goons and slew-footers in the AHL.

    I’d assume that’s also why the Oilers have passed.

    It’s NHL or Europe for Linus, and I don’t blame him for thinking so after gross mismanagement under Tambellini and Renney, which coincidentally is also why Paajarvi didn’t develop as quickly and/or as expected. Just hope MacT has learned from this with all the young Russians here and on the way.

  68. DeadmanWaking says:

    Ca$h-Money!: In hockey, the tendency is for other teams to have some knowledge of opposing teams players, but obviously not the depth of understanding of the team currently holding the chip

    The Market for Lemons

    Akerlof’s paper uses the market for used cars as an example of the problem of quality uncertainty. It concludes that owners of good cars will not place their cars on the used car market. This is sometimes summarized as “the bad driving out the good” in the market.

    This was a seminal result in what has grown into a larger field of economics under information asymmetry.

    When Akerlof published that paper in 1970, Al Gore was just twenty-two years old and recently enlisted to fight in Vietnam. A lot has changed since then.

    Young people like to fantasize that the world is still run by dinosaurs of a certain age who still think carriage return resembles a slap across the face–thus a frat boy surfing off a three-pint buzz has more information about available players and prospects than a full-time $400,000 / year general manager with a room full of scouts and assistants.

    The problem created by the market for lemons is that it becomes extremely hard to transact undamaged goods. As soon as you indicate you’re willing to transact a player, it drives down the player’s perceived value–unless your reason for transacting the player was crystal clear before you opened your mouth. A good example would be having Yakupov win the Rocket Richard the season before his contract expires. When everyone knows exactly why you’re feeling pinched, the inference concerning damaged goods isn’t so strong (but still, you’ll offer your sour lemons more aggressively than your hidden gems).

    Attempting to profit from an informational advantage is actually quite difficult unless you are curb-siding to the naive and gullible. If two sharps are dealing with each other it often degenerates to “I’ll take yours if you take mine” on the presumption that the sour taste cancels out.

    I don’t have the link handy, but Warren Buffett built his original fortune on being willing to knock on doors to gather information before Al Gore became a man and ruined everything. I believe B. publicly conceded that his original edge is one for the history books: everyone these days has all the same information from all the same sources. What separates the men from the boys in the new reality is whether you’re willing to swing the Vollman Sledgehammer with all your intellectual muscle. How many onion-toting hillbilly GMs do we still have around? They’re a rapidly dying breed.

    If two people exchange banged-up Buicks, and the front fender falls off one of them in the first week after the trade (due to metal fatigue in the fender ligaments) it doesn’t necessarily mean the other guy had more information that you had. It could just be that the crap-shoot rolled your lucky number. Damaged goods impersonate an expired warranty all the time, swapped or not. The asymmetry problem cuts both ways: you don’t know what the other guy knows and you’ll never know (for certain) what the other guy didn’t know, either.

    However, you will get a bad rep if you pull the Colin Fraser / creme Brule trick once too often. Sour pussies squawk like parrots with missing limbs and a saggy eye patch.

    Lombardi told The Sporting News he “would have rather invested my money with Bernie Madoff than invest in Edmonton’s word.”

    Gore went to ‘nam and brought back the party-line megaphone, which somehow involves a lot of tubes. Small towns always knew who got taken behind the woodshed. That was before Streisand took herself behind her own woodshed and bared it all. Now everyone knows everything all the time.

    You can fire your GM every second Tuesday to wash off the stench, but soon you’ll have trouble attracting any good ones. No matter how you slice it, it’s hard to curb-side on any sustained basis without somehow landing in the fink.

  69. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    You have a canny ability to post these after a new post has arrived. You writing deserves that “new post” smell.

  70. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bushed:
    ASkoreyko,

    Disagree.

    I don’t follow Twitter, so I like these updates.

    Thanks for posting them, DCB.

    I get what he is saying. the dead cat seems to be trolling here… but on another note, I appreciated the news about both Ranger and Brule. Both deserve another shot if they want it.

  71. BG14 says:

    G Money,

    I agree that he adds a wildly unnecessary and unfair undertone to the article, I just don’t think it’s that terrible. It’s miles better than pretty much anything authored by Damien Cox, for example. At least he puts out the positive stuff as well, it would have been easy enough to absolutely blast Perron by removing the context of many of those quotes.

    But yes, it is terrible journalism, you are correct there. I guess I’m just a little jaded from all the other garbage that gets put out there.

  72. jp says:

    Bushed:

    Omark seems like a really competitive skilled player who hates to lose. He is relentless on the puck, and although he isn’t the biggest guy on the ice, he plays physical. Isn’t this the player type we want? (see Youtube video from Europe where Omark gets penalty, is pissed off, serves penalty, gets out, scores goal and then flips the puck at the other team’s bench—that’s attitude!!)

    This guy is NOT Robbie Schremp redux–way more skills in the toolbox, and not a lazy player.

    I agree he looked to be competing hard when he was with the Oilers, but wasn’t he scratched in the playoffs in Switzerland this season? I’ve heard that but I’m not certain it’s true. If so that certainly confirms a major issue with the player.

    denny33:
    commonfan14,

    It would be a shame…

    And I would love to hear an explanation as to why he would not be given a final
    *opportunity* to attend training camp.

    What -exactly – would be the downside to letting him try out?

    If they’re absolutely certain they don’t want him on the team then he’d be taking someone else’s ice time – it’d be kind of pointless. Yes, it could open an opportunity for him to be moved, but would also be a distraction if he played well only to be sent away in the end. Aside from that he’d have to miss Euro league games to attend an NHL camp. Not a lot of positive in it for Omark unless he has a very good chance of sticking in the NHL. I’d certainly still welcome him at camp if he was interested in being there though.

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