RE 13-14 JEFF PETRY: YOUNG AMERICANS

Jeff Petry represents a high water mark for Oiler drafting–he is perhaps the best defensive draft pick in 25 years. Edmonton liked Petry’s game enough to send away Tom Gilbert when young Petry was 89 games into his NHL career. Since then, Petry (now 25) has been facing the best opposition available.

RE 13-14: 75, 3-17-20

  1. Clearly his PP days are done. Petry was never really a PP dynamo, but yes his powerplay minutes dried up this past season and I seriously doubt they’re going to return.
  2. Who gets the PP time? Schultz gets an enormous amount, and Belov gets a lot of time as well. I also have 4 forwards on the PP quite a bit this season. If that doesn’t end up being Eakins way, then this number will be low. I’m pretty sure Petry stays an EV and PK workhorse though. The Oilers used Potter, Whitney and of course Schultz more often than they used Petry, and with Belov’s arrival I suspect those minutes are even less likely.
  3. Isn’t he any good on the PP? He’s fine, but the Oilers don’t have enough good EV and PK defensemen so this is the need. It probably also keeps the costs down, as Petry is one of the extreme value contracts under the sun.
  4. I think he’s probably no good on the PP. Well, he was 1-5-6 in 11-12 (3.25 5×4/60 third among D behind Whitney and Potter) and was 0-3-3 in half a season 10-11 (1.67 5×4/60–sixth among D behind everybody) so maybe you’re right. Either way, I don’t have him on the PP much.
  5. Petry wasn’t effective at evens this season. Sure he was, at least compared to the rest of the team. Ralph rode the Smid pairing heavily (see the Vollman Sledgehammer) against tough, tough competition–and they handled it. Not as well as the previous season, but I’m pretty impressed with the overall numbers based on the difficult time the 2nd line was experiencing. I’m prepared to suggest that the pairing would have had a more successful season with Renney behind the bench.
  6. Did he play a lot? Led the team in EV TOI (17:57 per game), SH TOI (3:21 per game) and overall TOI per game (21:54). He played most of his minutes with Smid, and the top 6 forwards he played with (in order) were: Gagner, Eberle, Hall, Yakupov, Smyth, Nugent-Hopkins. So he was front and center, out against the best of the best. His 21:54 per game ranked 61st in NHL TOI, 60th among defenders.
  7. Great zone starts, though. No, he was 48.9% ZS and that’s not a push.
  8. So, you’re telling me the Oilers didn’t have ANY regular defensemen with an offensive zone start greater than 50%? Yes.
  9. Oh. Yeah, the ZS part of the graph probably doesn’t give the real story. They all ranged between 45% and 48.9%.
  10. Was he rusty from the layoff? Funny you mention it, I believe that had a lot to do with the difficulty this tandem had during the year. Petry just didn’t seem as sharp. Then again, Smid played in Czech and he didn’t look ready, either. It was a tough season to get a read on anyone, I think the best thing is to re-set and enter the year with the idea that Smid-Petry will be a good pairing. Plus they won’t have the Kruegerator messing things up.
  11. What will Eakins like about him? Well, he’s an actual live, breathing NHL player for one. Remember the Al Arbour line about ‘get good players’? That’s Petry. We can argue over where he should be placed on the depth chart, but he can play. He’s healthy, has good size, can make that breakout pass very well, carry the puck and fly a sortie when the opportunity arises. Petry has a complete player’s skill set, with the only complaints now being things like ‘he needs to be more physical’ and ‘he takes too many chances’; I prefer a player like Petry, whose positioning takes precedent over going for the big hit, and who will engage offensively at times.
  12. Is he a good fit for the new alignment? MacT talked at his press conference about having defensemen getting to the puck and then moving it in a good direction quickly. That’s Petry. He’s a quick thinker, mobile defender and has the skills to make that pass, carry it out, or pause until the forechecker fades from the moment. The best compliment you can give Petry is going out and getting a bunch of like-skilled players, which is kind of what MacT did summer 2013.
  13. Who did he play well with? He was alongside Smid pretty much the entire 5×5 season, and they were 44.4 Chances for percentage for the year. In a nutshell, when those two played with the Hall line they played the world 50%, otherwise it was horrible with Belanger’s 35% CF being the nadir. Not enough NHL players is tough to overcome.
  14. Why this song? It’s a strange song, the lyrics describing a horrible life situation (young people having babies with absolutely no idea about how to take care of themselves let alone the new arrival) but the music is extremely happy, bubbling. That’s kind of the Oilers and Petry for his first few years. On the one hand you have complete and utter failure (“Well, well, well, would you carry a razor In case, just in case of depression?”) and yet the music (the future) is impossibly positive. An unusual lyric/song for an unusual team/situation.
  15. I noticed you used it on the young American. Heh. Well, if the shoe fits……
  16. What’s ahead for Petry? Same part of the graph, same size bubble but a better color. I think he’s one guy we can count on, and his contract is a beauty.
  17. But the team has to get better. Don’t worry, MacT’s going to take care of that–he’s already done a tremendous amount in four months.
  18. Four months? Yeah. Mid-April to today.
  19. Crazy. Crazy like a fox.
  20. WHY are you so confident about MacT? Because everything he does speaks to urgency and immediate improvement. He was looking for an assistant for Ralph, but when he met Eakins the urgency of the situation dictated to him that he needed to fast track the process and the key item was the coach. That alone probably saved a few points. Then he goes out and acquires a bunch of guys who have a nice range of skills, who can move the puck, use their brains for more than a hat rack, don’t have ‘rip it around the boards’ as the go-to option. He can’t find an impact defenseman, so he gets a veteran for the top 4D and then improves the depth twofold 5-10. I didn’t like all of the moves, but I can at least see the plan, see the attempt at sweet sweet balance.
  21. Still no three-for-one yet. It’s coming baby. It’s coming.
  22. What would you say to Petry’s Dad? I’d tell him his boy is a better hockey player than he was a pitcher and that Jeff is badly underpaid. We don’t talk much about plus minus on this blog but he’s been ahead of the curve three years running (numbers below in the boxcars).

JEFF PETRY VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER 2011-12

VOLLMAN JONES 11-12

JEFF PETRY 2012-13 SLEDGEHAMMER

2012-13 vollman oilers d

Jeff Petry 10-11

  • 5×5 points per 60: 0.21 (8th among Oil D)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 1.67 (5th among Oil D)
  • Qual Comp: 5th toughest among D
  • Qual Team: 7th best available among D
  • Corsi Rel: 2.0 (tied for 4th best among D)
  • Zone Start: 49.1% (3rd toughest among D)
  • Zone Finish: 50.5% (5th best among D)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 41 shots/1 goal 2.4% (7th among Oil D)
  • Boxcars: 35gp, 1-4-5
  • Plus Minus: -12 on a team that was -52

Jeff Petry 11-12

  • 5×5 points per 60: 0.91 (1st among Oil D)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 3.25 (3rd among Oil D)
  • Qual Comp: 2nd toughest among D
  • Qual Team: best available among D
  • Corsi Rel: 2.0 (tied for 4th best among D)
  • Zone Start: 49.1% (5th toughest among D)
  • Zone Finish: 51.3% (2nd best among D)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 111 shots/1.8% (6th among Oil D)
  • Boxcars: 73gp, 2-23-25
  • Plus Minus: -7 on a team that was -26

Jeff Petry 12-13

  • 5×5 points per 60: 0.72 (4th among regular Oil D)
  • 5×4 points per 60: nil
  • Qual Comp: toughest among regular D
  • Qual Team: 6th best available among regular D
  • Corsi Rel: -1.7 (5th best among regular D) (-12.49 Corsi ON)
  • Zone Start: 48.9% (easiest among regular D)
  • Zone Finish: 50.8% (2nd best among D)
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 66 shots/4.55% (4th among Oil D>30 shots)
  • Boxcars: 48gp, 3-9-12
  • Plus Minus: +1 on a team that was -15

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51 Responses to "RE 13-14 JEFF PETRY: YOUNG AMERICANS"

  1. supernova says:

    LT,

    What do you think a fair contract is?

    Underpaid but not grossly.

  2. Bar_Qu says:

    supernova:
    LT,

    What do you think a fair contract is?

    Underpaid but not grossly.

    As a legit top-4 option, he is worth at least $4M based on this past summer’s nonsense with D.

    Jamie McBain has a higher cap hit than Petry, Mark Stuart has a $50,000 lower hit. Seems to me Petry far outclasses those guys. (and that is just 2 random names comparable in salary to Petry

  3. Lowetide says:

    Bar_Qu nailed it imo, his next contract will be in the $4M range depending on how many free agent seasons are purchased and how well he plays this year.

  4. supernova says:

    McBain is also in the last year of a two year “bridge deal” agree next contract will be different.

    Petry at 4 better be for long term because that would be a overpay.

    Like the player but unless he improves he is a second pair guy, with little PP contribution and not a defensive stalwart yet.

    If we put J Schultz in the 1st pair because of O
    Then Smid and Petry together, then Ference.
    We can’t pay all those guys 3.5 to 4.5 million and Schultz more likely in the 5 range.
    One of Petry and Smid will have to be flipped if we are ever to acquire a true 1.

    If I am the Oilers I offer him Smid’s current deal right now. $3.5 for 4 years.

  5. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “Edmonton liked Petry’s game enough to send away Tom Gilbert when young Petry was 89 games into his NHL career”

    I think we can be less ambiguous here: Tambo made a strange, unforced blunder.

    Petry’s development was probably part of Tambo’s thinking here… but I don’t think we shine that trade up with external events (not that it was some utter failure either mind you) or use it to make Petry look pretty. He looks pretty independent of that move.

    Speaking of Petry… I’m not entirely convinced his beard is exceptional. Here’s his moustache:

    http://1.cdn.nhle.com/oilers/images/upload/2011/11/20111129_petrymo-2.jpg

    pretty good. I’d like to see the full Zanon, but I don’t think he’s got the juice. I hope he proves me wrong.

    ———-
    “It probably also keeps the costs down, as Petry is one of the extreme value contracts under the sun.”

    Dick move. Let’s do it. His next contract should be long term anyway.

    ———-
    Smid-Petry

    These guys are Oilers. They’ve put in the time. We’ve watched them grow. There’s an emotional commitment.

    But, I wonder if the new GM sees it that way? Can anyone recall MacT mentioning either player yet?

    ———
    “An unusual lyric/song for an unusual team/situation.”

    The Smiths have a lot of tunes with this combo: poppy song, insane lyrics.

    ——–
    on the Vollman graphs it is interesting to note that a least 3 of the depth bets from the Tambo era actually worked ok on the D: Sutton, Potter and Fistric all covered the bet.

    That’s still a long way from an NHL team. but there they are.

    ———
    what no LDWLT? crap. today sucks.

  6. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Bar_Qu nailed it imo, his next contract will be in the $4M range depending on how many free agent seasons are purchased and how well he plays this year.

    Didn’t Jackassalini screw up Petry’s contract length just like Gagner”s?

    I think that at the end of this year Petry is a RFA with arb rights and only 1 year of RFA left.

    Like Gagner, he can play real hardball at contract time.

    He is significantly underpaid now, but the Oilers might have to overpay a bit to keep him on the next contract due to the lack of leverage.

    Tambellini – The Jackass whose incompetence just keeps on giving.

  7. Lowetide says:

    WG: Lol.. Yeah. It really pressures the next year negotiation because the player can see daylight and the agent has a bigger hammer. Jackassalini? That’s brilliant!

  8. bookje says:

    Its Not hockey related, but the following link is very relevant To Steve Smith’s “I don’t think That word means what you think it means”. This definition literally killed me and I think it might literally kill Steve as well:

    http://imgur.com/JtfJDxn

    Steve – I am very sad to say that word literally means what I think it means. English is dead – literally!

  9. supernova says:

    Woodguy: Didn’t Jackassalini screw up Petry’s contract length just like Gagner”s?

    I think that at the end of this year Petry is a RFA with arb rights and only 1 year of RFA left.

    Like Gagner, he can play real hardball at contract time.

    He is significantly underpaid now, but the Oilers might have to overpay a bit to keep him on the next contract due to the lack of leverage.

    Tambellini – The Jackass whose incompetence just keeps on giving.

    Woodguy,

    Tambo= an agent’s best friend

    still dont know how he pulled off Halls deal, completely out of character

  10. jooks says:

    Hey LT, can you please clarify the difference between the shade of the bubble (lighter vs darker) vs. the size of the bubble in the vollman sledgehammer? Thx

  11. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    jooks:
    Hey LT, can you please clarify the difference between the shade of the bubble (lighter vs darker) vs. the size of the bubble in the vollman sledgehammer?Thx

    IIRC

    color = good (blue) or bad (orange) corsi

    size = strength of good or bad corsi

    so big blue = very good
    small blue = good
    small orange = barely hanging on
    big orange = shit show

    it helps to have the interactive image. go to somekindofninja for their player usage charts and you can hover over the bubbles for more info:

    http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage.php?f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f3=&f5=EDM&f4=&f7=&bubbleType=corsiRel&yAxis=qoc&update-filters=Update+Results

  12. Hammers says:

    Re his contract .A lot will depend on how players like Belov play and if Klefbom moves into the lineup. He may end up being a trade piece for McT if he won’t sign for say the $ 3.5 x4 . Look ahead a year and our “D” will loose N.Schultz making room for Klef . If Marinchin has a good year in the AHL some leverage falls back to McT . I’m not saying we won’t or don’t want to keep him but how well this season goes for many of our “D” will play a part .

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Hammers:
    Re his contract .A lot will depend on how players like Belov play and if Klefbom moves into the lineup. He may end up being a trade piece for McT if he won’t sign for say the $ 3.5 x4 . Look ahead a year and our “D” will looseN.Schultz making room for Klef . If Marinchin has a good year in the AHL some leverage falls back to McT . I’m not saying we won’t or don’t want to keep him but how well this season goes for many of our “D” will play a part .

    One benefit he will have though, even with the kids coming up is the lack of depth on the right side. After him and Schultz (Jr.) there is Larsen, Potter, Fedun and a bunch of off-side potential.

    A question might be about how Larsen and Fedun show this year. If Larsen blooms magically and Fedun emerges as a legit 7 or 8 NHL option, Petry might have less leverage.

  14. Soup Fascist says:

    I see occasional flashes of physical play from Petry that leave me wanting more. I realize he is never going to be a real banger or tough guy, but every few games he throws a hard, timely textbook body check that really stands the opposition up. I think he can be a very effective hitter, I just wish he would do it a bit more often.

    The Oilers D group is not going to be overly physical. Another hit or two per game from Petry and a bit more “bitchiness” in front of the net would go a long way. Ference is pretty good at the “nasties”. Hopefully a little bit of that will rub off on Petry and some of the others.

  15. jake70 says:

    The Lidstrom/Detroit approach to contracts was that his would be the high water mark on the roster. Not saying it will work with the Oilers (we’ll see what Larionov will do), but let’s say that was the approach with the Hall/Eberle deals – 6M cap hit going forward x 6- 7 years, they could be unbelievably good contracts by mid to end-term. All contracts will be (should be) relative to these two. Tambellini, for his faults set the price. Potential end result, Petry, Yak, Nuge, Shultz, Nurse – none will be over 6M cap – This could be the best Oiler move since Pronger acquired.

  16. regwald says:

    Soup Fascist:
    I see occasional flashes of physical play from Petry that leave me wanting more.I realize he is never going to be a real banger or tough guy, but every few games he throws a hard, timely textbook body check that really stands the opposition up.I think he can be a very effective hitter, I just wish he would do it a bit more often.

    The Oilers D group is not going to be overly physical.Another hit or two per game from Petry and a bit more “bitchiness” in front of the net would go a long way.Ference is pretty good at the “nasties”.Hopefully a little bit of that will rub off on Petry and some of the others.

    Just remember that Ference is only 5′ 11″ and 189 pounds. He might be our smallest dman. Check that. He is the only dman on the current roster under 6 ft. Grebs and Larsen are listed at 6′ and everyone else is 6′ 2″ or taller.

  17. G Money says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: color = good (blue) or bad (orange) corsi
    size = strength of good or bad corsi

    It depends of course on how exactly you have the graph configured, but normally if Corsi is reflected via the blue-orange colour band, then bubble size is usually TOI.

  18. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Soup Fascist,

    regwald,

    Ference is a fitness nut and build like a brickhouse. He isn’t overwhelming physically. but he’s more of a nasty player than Petry, despite size.

    I expect the roll of tough sob might be played by Belov though. He looks mean as hell in some of those youtubes.

  19. godot10 says:

    Woodguy: Didn’t Jackassalini screw up Petry’s contract length just like Gagner”s?

    I think that at the end of this year Petry is a RFA with arb rights and only 1 year of RFA left.

    Like Gagner, he can play real hardball at contract time.

    He is significantly underpaid now, but the Oilers might have to overpay a bit to keep him on the next contract due to the lack of leverage.

    Tambellini – The Jackass whose incompetence just keeps on giving.

    Is Doug Armstrong a jackass for not being able to get Patrick Berglund signed long term, and forced to settle on a 1-year contract?

    Jeff Petry has 2 years left till unrestricted free agency, so before calling Tambellini names, maybe people should check the facts.

  20. G Money says:

    LT and his alter-ego sez: Petry wasn’t effective at evens this season. Sure he was, at least compared to the rest of the team. Ralph rode the Smid pairing heavily (see the Vollman Sledgehammer) against tough, tough competition–and they handled it. Not as well as the previous season, but I’m pretty impressed with the overall numbers …

    Back in around the middle of the season, and while most posters were demanding Tambo’s head, and before guys like Dellow and Zona had posted their more detailed critiques of Krueger’s system, I postulated that I thought that Krueger might be fired before Tambo.

    My reasoning? Key players on the team simply looked confused and out of sorts while on the ice. Most specifically Smid-Petry and Gagner-Hemsky. Smid-Petry held their own against the toughs the previous year, and they took a big step back in 2012/13. Gagner held his own (mild negative Corsi) against middling competition his entire five years, and took a huge step off a cliff in 2012/13. Hemsky for almost his entire career – injuries and all – every season kept the puck going the right way in a big way, and he too fell off a cliff in 2012/13.

    There was one particular sequence I remember where an easy goal against was scored because both Petry and Smid covered the wrong guy at the wrong angle at the wrong time. The whole time they were looking at each other confused about what each was doing and what the other guy was doing. Given their experience playing together – that was my first glaring in-your-face realization that the system really was just not working.

    If the Oilers are to be a playoff team, a huge part of the resurgence will be Smid-Petry once again sawing off against the toughs. Hope Eakins is the guy (and the system) to make that happen again.

  21. Jesse says:

    LT,

    I understand the critique of specific aspects of Ralph’s approach (OZ faceoff tactics, lack of line matching, and *perhaps* Nick Schultz’s pinching habit), but it seems as though you’ve taken to blaming him for anything and everything that went wrong this past season, without giving any caveats of it being a shortened season without any training camp. IMHO it seems a bit hyperbolic, and seems like an unfair assessment which I believe to be uncharacteristic of your posts, which is why I thought it worth mentioning. :)

  22. jooks says:

    Thanks RA and LT. After reading the Player Usage Charts doc, it sounds like if the chart has bubbles with varying shades of colour, then the shade represents the degree of CorsiRel while the size represents the TOI. If there isn’t shades of colour (i.e. blue and white bubbles) then the size represents the CorsiRel. So confusing…

  23. "Steve Smith" says:

    bookje,

    You know, on some level I recognize that we prescriptivists don’t make a lot of sense, because the language whose purity we purport to defend is itself the product of centuries of evolution, and it’s a little odd for us to say that the version of English that existed when we achieved fluency is how everybody should speak it forevermore, notwithstanding that it’s a noticeably different version than existed even ten years previous. That’s one of the (many, many) points that this video makes with great skill.

    (I’m a linguistic prescriptivist in my heart, but a linguistic descriptivist in my brain – precisely the sort of internal conflict that has defined literature’s more memorable heroes.)

    But then I see stuff like this, and I feel vindicated in my illogic – “literally” now means both itself and its opposite. I can’t think of any other words like that, though the descriptivists are trying to get us there with “inflammable”, and I have little doubt that they’ll succeed.

    On another note, I’m somewhat peeved that my “I don’t think that X means etc., etc., etc.” schtick has become about word usage, when that’s not usually why I invoke it at all – usually, I’m making some point about the underlying subject, which is sometimes even related to the topic of the thread. Hypothetical example:

    Moron: The Oilers have four solid, veteran defencemen, in Smid, Whitney, Fistric, and Schultz.
    Steve: I do not think that “solid” means what you think that it means.

    In that case, I am not literally (or, “not not literally”, meaning “literally”) suggesting that the moron does not know the dictionary definition of “solid”. I am suggesting that the moron is not very good at assessing NHL defencemen – a perfectly cromulent point that somehow gets me labelled as a grammar Nazi.

  24. Lois Lowe says:

    "Steve Smith",

    Your use of cromulent embiggens us all.

  25. Zipdot says:

    “I’m pretty sure Petry stays an EV and PP workhorse though.”

    Do you mean PK workhorse? Or PP?

  26. Lowetide says:

    Lois Lowe:
    “Steve Smith”,

    Your use of cromulent embiggens us all.

    Laughed from Leduc to St. Albert over this. Very funny.

  27. Lowetide says:

    Jesse:
    LT,

    I understand the critique of specific aspects of Ralph’s approach (OZ faceoff tactics, lack of line matching, and *perhaps* Nick Schultz’s pinching habit), but it seems as though you’ve taken to blaming him for anything and everything that went wrong this past season, without giving any caveats of it being a shortened season without any training camp. IMHO it seems a bit hyperbolic, and seems like an unfair assessment which I believe to be uncharacteristic of your posts, which is why I thought it worth mentioning. :)

    This is accurate and has merit. I’m watching you!!!!!

  28. bookje says:

    "Steve Smith":
    bookje,

    You know, on some level I recognize that we prescriptivists don’t make a lot of sense, because the language whose purity we purport to defend is itself the product of centuries of evolution, and it’s a little odd for us to say that the version of English that existed when we achieved fluency is how everybody should speak it forevermore, notwithstanding that it’s a noticeably different version than existed even ten years previous.That’s one of the (many, many) points that this video makes with great skill.

    (I’m a linguistic prescriptivist in my heart, but a linguistic descriptivist in my brain – precisely the sort of internal conflict that has defined literature’s more memorable heroes.)

    But then I see stuff like this, and I feel vindicated in my illogic – “literally” now means both itself and its opposite.I can’t think of any other words like that, though the descriptivists are trying to get us there with “inflammable”, and I have little doubt that they’ll succeed.

    On another note, I’m somewhat peeved that my “I don’t think that X means etc., etc., etc.” schtick has become about word usage, when that’s not usually why I invoke it at all – usually, I’m making some point about the underlying subject, which is sometimes even related to the topic of the thread.Hypothetical example:

    Moron: The Oilers have four solid, veteran defencemen, in Smid, Whitney, Fistric, and Schultz.
    Steve: I do not think that “solid” means what you think that it means.

    In that case, I am not literally (or, “not not literally”, meaning “literally”) suggesting that the moron does not know the dictionary definition of “solid”.I am suggesting that the moron is not very good at assessing NHL defencemen – a perfectly cromulent point that somehow gets me labelled as a grammar Nazi.

    For the record, I am just fine with your linguistic prescriptivism. I frequently find myself looking like a bit of an email etiquette prescriptivists when I respond to emails from students (who I have never met) writing me emails that say “Hey, Im in ur class next semester and am going to miss the first six classes caus Im on vacation in Florida. Can you let me know if im gonna miss anything important and where i can get the notes” . No signature providing me with a name, just an email like Rockr13@somemail.com. So, I find myself writing emails to second year university students explaining things like professionalism, greetings, salutations, etc. What I really wonder about is how they reach this level without someone having done this. I know they think I am a total ass when I respond, but somebody has to tell them this, right?

    Sorry for the rant, but I received two of those today.

    So Steve, please, in addition to using your “I don’t think that X…” for sarcastic responses, please also keep using them to remind us of the proper use of the English language.

  29. TheOtherJohn says:

    Bookje

    I was wrong in my earlier email, I am not going to miss the first six classes, I am going to miss the six weeks of classes (vaca in Florida). After thinking about it, rather than point me to the notes or a synopsis of what I am going to miss, can you simply let me know what is going to be on the midterm? .

    Hey man, thanks in advance

    Sincerely
    Rockr13@somemail.com.

  30. Bag of Pucks says:

    Too bad we don’t have Tom Gilbert to clear the slot or protect a late lead anymore.

    Bowie’s “I’m afraid of Americans” could not have been more apropos.

    I keed. I keed.

  31. Bag of Pucks says:

    Honest question. Is there a point when the prescriptivists die off and the IM generation thus sets the standard for written English?

    Does “the truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.” eventually become “true dat is where I at, durrrr” ?

  32. Zipdot says:

    Bag of Pucks: Does “the truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.” eventually become “true dat is where I at, durrrr” ?

    I was reading some old letters the other day that were written by sea captains from the 1800s. Their mastery of the language is absolutely shocking, as seen through the eyes of a gen x’er. Forget about the future — we’re already knee deep in dumbtalk. I think radio was a milestone in de-eloquentalizing* us.

    * aka dumbifying

  33. Bar_Qu says:

    bookje,

    Having seen those kids much earlier than when they arrive to you, I can say they are told repeatedly during school about little things like “put your name to it” & “form an actual sentence with recognisable spelling and grammar” frequently (year over year even). However, the tide of language use is against us all at the moment.

    Bag of Pucks,

    The one controvertible truth about human beings is we are moved and move towards those individuals who display a linguistic rhetorical ability. And those who speak in bits and bites cannot raise their thinking, let alone speaking, to the level which others gravitate towards.

    As always, in every era of English usage, the dross eventually burns out and the quality stays. This book really gave me good perspective on aspects of language I can neither affect nor prevent becoming prevalent. The book may be a bit dry as you get into more recent history, but the first 1000 years or so is fantastic.

  34. Bag of Pucks says:

    ZipdotForget about the future — we’re already knee deep in dumbtalk.I think radio was a milestone in de-eloquentalizing* us.

    * aka dumbifying

    True story. I was asking my brother-in-law a couple years ago if he’d read a certain book I had just finished and he answered in complete seriousness, “They made a movie of that, right? Why would I waste my time reading the book when I can watch the movie?”

    Same guy believes the Bible is an unerring factual historical document (they made a movie of that one, right?) and once had to cut off his Internet because he was getting addicted to online porn.

    Fortunately, my wife completely understands now when unexpected ailments consistently render me unable to visit these particular ‘relations.’

    There is a massive silver lining to this story though. Lil sis and cretin have decided NOT to breed.

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    G Money: It depends of course on how exactly you have the graph configured, but normally if Corsi is reflected via the blue-orange colour band, then bubble size is usually TOI.

    I’m not sure which is used in Vollman. From his text:

    What is Relative Corsi (The Bubbles)?
    Corsi, another poorly named statistic, is simply a player’s plus/minus, except that it’s measured in attempted1 shots instead of goals. In this case it’s calculated over 60 minutes, and Relative Corsi is calculated relative to how the team did without him. As explained by Corsi bubble innovator Eric Tulsky, a big blue bubble represents someone whose team attempts a lot more shots than their opponents while he’s on the ice, and a big white bubble is someone whose team is usually getting outshot badly. In Tom Awad’s variation the bubble is sized according to a player’s ice-time and shaded dark green or dark red based on their Relative Corsi.

    He doesn’t (here anyway) explain which version he is using, but I’m not sure we can assume Awad’s version is “usually” at hand.

    "Steve Smith": “literally” now means both itself and its opposite.

    Greek is full of words like this.

    Two examples that have given deconstructivists a big old happy:

    στάσις (stasis), which can mean both “standing” and all the stillness it can imply (this version survives in English pretty much unchanged) and “civil war, faction, strife”

    so, basically unchanging and change.

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dsta%2Fsis

    and

    φάρμακον (pharmakon), which can mean both “poison” and “cure” (and obviously survives in English primarily as “drug/cure” but we aren’t far off as a culture as coding fancy drugs as “poisons”)

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dfa%2Frmakon

  36. Bank Shot says:

    Jesse:
    LT,

    I understand the critique of specific aspects of Ralph’s approach (OZ faceoff tactics, lack of line matching, and *perhaps* Nick Schultz’s pinching habit), but it seems as though you’ve taken to blaming him for anything and everything that went wrong this past season, without giving any caveats of it being a shortened season without any training camp. IMHO it seems a bit hyperbolic, and seems like an unfair assessment which I believe to be uncharacteristic of your posts, which is why I thought it worth mentioning.

    Nick had a few bad pinches. They probably wouldn’t have looked as bad if Justin had ever covered him, or did anything at all without the puck for that matter. I’ll never really understand the level of disdain Nick Schultz has earned just by being traded for Gilbert. He also didn’t play during the lockout, but he doesn’t get credit for it as Petry does.

    I don’t think Nick is a particularly great defenceman, but he wasn’t the problem last season. Justin was a big part of it. Hopefully he doesn’t hurt the team this year. We are going to run out of others to blame pretty quick if Justin doesn’t learn some NHL defence.

  37. Woodguy says:

    godot10: Is Doug Armstrong a jackass for not being able to get Patrick Berglund signed long term, and forced to settle on a 1-year contract?

    Jeff Petry has 2 years left till unrestricted free agency, so before calling Tambellini names, maybe people should check the facts.

    I reserve my right to call him names anytime.

    So Nah

    *sticks out tongue*

  38. B S says:

    bookje: For the record, I am just fine with your linguistic prescriptivism.I frequently find myself looking like a bit of an email etiquette prescriptivists when I respond to emails from students (who I have never met) writing me emails that say “Hey, Im in ur class next semester and am going to miss the first six classes caus Im on vacation in Florida.Can you let me know if im gonna miss anything important and where i can get the notes” .No signature providing me with a name, just an email like Rockr13@somemail.com.So, I find myself writing emails to second year university students explaining things like professionalism, greetings, salutations, etc.What I really wonder about is how they reach this level without someone having done this.I know they think I am a total ass when I respond, but somebody has to tell them this, right?

    Sorry for the rant, but I received two of those today.

    So Steve, please, in addition to using your “I don’t think that X…” for sarcastic responses, please also keep using them to remind us of the proper use of the English language.

    Been reading without speaking for a while, but thought this was worth a nod. Bookje (wasn’t there an L in there somewhere?) I applaud your tolerance and patience. When I get 1st year science students sending me emails like that, I simply ignore them, then in class I tell my students that if they send me emails composed of acronyms, slang and missing a signature I will ignore them, and if they send emails like that to other professional contacts they’ll be flipping burgers for a living and should save themselves 3 years of tuition and apply to McDonalds’ now.

    On Topic, I suspect Petry will be much better this season with a full training camp and likely an easier workload with Ference on the team and J. Schultz a year more experienced. I also think he will exceed LT’s RE by at least 5 points this season (I’m actually trying to figure out how the top 2 lines are going to light it up like that, but only Jultz is going to get in on any of that offence).

    PS, Finally listened to your radio show last week LT (doesn’t usually mesh with my schedule). It was eloquent, insightful, and intelligent all around. I’m afraid it probably won’t last long on radio in Edmonton, so best of luck on your next job.

  39. "Steve Smith" says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: φάρμακον (pharmakon), which can mean both “poison” and “cure”

    Well, how about that – they anticipated homoeopathy by a couple of millennia. Not that that’s anything to be proud of.

  40. Woodguy says:

    godot10: Is Doug Armstrong a jackass for not being able to get Patrick Berglund signed long term, and forced to settle on a 1-year contract?

    Jeff Petry has 2 years left till unrestricted free agency, so before calling Tambellini names, maybe people should check the facts.

    How do you figure he has 2 years left?

    He turns 27 on December 9th 2014, which means he would be a UFA July 1st 2015 if not signed to a contract that extends past that.

    Which means he has only 1 RFA year left after his current contract is up, just like Gagner, just like I said.

    Do I have something wrong?

    10.1 Unrestricted Free Agents.
    (a) Group 3 Players and Free Agents.
    (i) Any Player who either has seven (7) Accrued Seasons or is 27 years of age
    or older as of June 30 of the end of a League Year, shall, if his most recent
    SPC has expired, with such expiry occurring either as of June 30 of such
    League Year or June 30 of any prior League Year, become an Unrestricted
    Free Agent. Such Player shall be completely free to negotiate and sign an
    SPC with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and
    sign an SPC with such Player, without penalty or restriction, or being
    subject to any Right of First Refusal, Draft Choice Compensation or any
    other compensation or equalization obligation of any kind.

  41. Numenius says:

    Woodguy,

    Gosh darn it, that’s right. That’s too bad.

  42. Lowetide says:

    Look, if you people are going to swear like it’s 1970, well, I just don’t know.

  43. godot10 says:

    Woodguy,

    Yep…I screwed up. The only choices at the time were 1-year, 2-year or something like 5 or 6 years. Having Petry at a low number for the upcoming season instead of headed to arbitration allowed MacT the room to sign one more UFA D.

    Instead of 2 years at $1.75, it probably would have been $1.5 last year, and something like $2.5-$3.0 million this year in arbitration or well over $3 on a long term deal.

    So there would be no cap room for Grebeshkov.

  44. G Money says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: He doesn’t (here anyway) explain which version he is using, but I’m not sure we can assume Awad’s version is “usually” at hand.

    That’s why I used the weasel word ‘usually’, and you’re not wrong for saying so, but at the same time I would say that I’m less not right than you, if the cut of your jib gets the shade of the vibe I’m throwin’.

    Basically, if you see a Vollman chart with blue and white bubbles (see: Petry 2011-12 chart above), then it is almost certain that the size of the bubbles corresponds to Corsi.

    But if you see a Vollman chart with bubbles shaded between red and blue, then it is also almost certain that Corsi is represented by shade, while the bubbles – assuming they vary in size – will correspond to TOI. (see: Petry 2012-13 chart above).

    In other words, you generally don’t need an explanation of what the chart represents, it is almost always one of the two standards, and visually its easy to tell them apart once you know what you’re lookin’ at.

  45. G Money says:

    Lowetide:
    Look, if you people are going to swear like it’s 1970, well, I just don’t know.

    I can dig it. Just be cool, bro’, and keep on truckin’.

  46. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    G Money: That’s why I used the weasel word ‘usually’, and you’re not wrong for saying so, but at the same time I would say that I’m less not right than you, if the cut of your jib gets the shade of the vibe I’m throwin’.

    Basically, if you see a Vollman chart with blue and white bubbles (see: Petry 2011-12 chart above), then it is almost certain that the size of the bubbles corresponds to Corsi.

    But if you see a Vollman chart with bubbles shaded between red and blue, then it is also almost certain that Corsi is represented by shade, while the bubbles – assuming they vary in size – will correspond to TOI.(see: Petry 2012-13 chart above).

    In other words, you generally don’t need an explanation of what the chart represents, it is almost always one of the two standards, and visually its easy to tell them apart once you know what you’re lookin’ at.

    Oh, my jib is cutting and shading and throwing right along side you.

    I wasn’t so much correcting you as noting how such a simple and valuable tool in the hands of a zealous band of misfits, like the disparate group of hockey analytics bloggers, can get jumbled in competing versions right quick.

    If your breakdown is accurate (blue-white vs blue-color), then that is very helpful. Appreciate it muchly.

  47. spoiler says:

    “Steve Smith”: Well, how about that – they anticipated homoeopathy by a couple of millennia. Not that that’s anything to be proud of.

    Well, I think history considers Hippocrates and Paracelsus to be the first providers of Homeopathic treatments anyways, even if they weren’t known by that name then. And the notion of Homeopathy isn’t very different from the notion of vaccination,* if however taken to a foolish extent..

    *which itself might not always be a good thing, although that badness seems more linked to preservatives and other additives to vaccines.

  48. Zipdot says:

    Bag of Pucks: True story. I was asking my brother-in-law a couple years ago if he’d read a certain book I had just finished and he answered in complete seriousness, “They made a movie of that, right? Why would I waste my time reading the book when I can watch the movie?”

    Same guy believes the Bible is an unerring factual historical document (they made a movie of that one, right?) and once had to cut off his Internet because he was getting addicted to online porn.

    Fortunately, my wife completely understands now when unexpected ailments consistently render me unable to visit these particular ‘relations.’

    There is a massive silver lining to this story though. Lil sis and cretin have decided NOT to breed.

    Hahaha, nice story. Yikes.

  49. Woodguy says:

    godot10:
    Woodguy,

    Yep…I screwed up.The only choices at the time were 1-year, 2-year or something like 5 or 6 years.Having Petry at a low number for the upcoming season instead of headed to arbitration allowed MacT the room to sign one more UFA D.

    Instead of 2 years at$1.75, it probably would have been $1.5 last year, and something like $2.5-$3.0 million this year in arbitration or well over $3 on a long term deal.

    So there would be no cap room for Grebeshkov.

    Thank you.

    Jackassalini he is, and will remain.

    Also,

    The Oilers have 24 players under contract with $1.6MM left under the cap, and another ~$4.5 available in the bonus cushion.

    They need to dump one off the books before camp breaks and the odds on favorite is N.Shutlz at $3.5

    Signing Petry long term would not have affected the ability to sign Grebs ($1.5) or Belove ($1.52)

  50. godot10 says:

    Woodguy: Thank you.

    Jackassalini he is, and will remain.

    Signing Petry long term would not have affected the ability to sign Grebs ($1.5) or Belove ($1.52)

    No way Petry would have signed long term last year for less than $4 million per year (for 5 or 6 years), and then how does one get Smid signed for $3.5?

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