RE 13-14 MIKE BROWN: SORROW

Steve Tambellini could write a book about acquiring enforcers, God knows he did it enough times as Oiler GM. The free agent signings of men like Darcy Hordichuk and Ben Eager, added to the trades for men like Mike Brown, and the use of high picks on kids like Cameron Abney made certain of two things: the Oilers had a lot of these guys and overpaid for all of them. Mike Brown is my favorite. Why? He appears to have satisifed those who want this player type on the roster. Good. Then I like him, too. Hail Mike Brown!

RE 13-14: 51, 1-3-4

  1. None of the things we talk about on this blog measure the performance of an enforcer. Not true. We talk about facial hair, face punching, playing on bad teams and wasted at-bats.
  2. How then can you claim he’s fantastic? Next question.
  3. He doesn’t do much to help move the puck in a good direction. A nice sunny day today, high 24. Hmmm. Should I barbeque?
  4. Answer me this much: Is he a good enforcer? He appears to be, Oilers seem to like him. Brown certainly was a willing fighter, and there’s evidence (anecdotal) that the skill guys do appreciate having a teammate like that on their side. I think it’s probably the equivalent of a good rain that stills the thunder and brings out the sunshine.
  5. What the HELL is this? What?
  6. What about Corsi you idiot? Well, CorsiRel is in the Vollman below.
  7. And Brown is in the part of the graph that suggests extreme shelter. Yes. And a sorrow balloon.
  8. HOW can you argue that he’s worth a roster spot? Shhh. Quiet down, man.
  9. Why? Because, if the Oilers don’t like this guy they’ll probably trade a SECOND round pick for the next guy!
  10. Ha-ha, Ha-ha-ha-ha. Nine questions for a lame joke. No worries, glad to oblige.
  11. How many since BG? Well, there was Zack Stortini, JF Jacques, Brad Winchester, Jesse Boulerice, Steve MacIntyre, Hordichuk, Eager, Brown.
  12. EIGHT? Hole-lee. Who was the best? Best hockey player? Stortini. Best enforcer? MacIntyre.
  13. What is Brown? Probably best combination of enforcer/hockey player. Buddy hangs in there, balls out.
  14. How much did he play? 8:35 at evens with Edmonton, 4:36 in Toronto.
  15. How does that compare to the Golden days of Laraque? BG had years he played 8.5 minutes a night, but he also had a season of 13 goals and several seasons where he post point totals in the ‘teens.
  16. Did Brown replace Eager or Hordichuk? Eager to my eye.
  17. So they need another tough guy? God I hope not, that’s part of the problem.
  18. Would you rather have Brown or Ryan Hamilton on the roster? I’m actually fine with both, 12-13F’s and rotate in and out. I understand there are elements of the game that intelligent men feel a need to fill with an enforcer, and that I’m not on the ice so don’t know the true value of an enforcer to the overall game.
  19. But it doesn’t show up in the numbers. And therefore has little value to me personally.
  20. And don’t keep trading third round picks to fill the hole. You bet. I think that’s maybe the biggest contribution Mike Brown can give to the Oilers. It’s an important role.

MIKE BROWN VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER 2012-13

brown vollman sledgehammer

 

 LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

clockwork

Lowdown with Lowetide back on the air at 10 this morning, check out the guest list:

  • Alan Hull from Copper and Blue. We’ll talk about the C&B top 25 under 25 (they’re getting to the tough calls now) and I’ll ask Alan about the value tradeoff Edmonton made when dealing #37 overall. 
  • Eric Rodgers will discuss the OKC Barons. We’ll talk Toni Rajala and his future, try to make sense of a suddenly insane blueline situation and then fill in the center depth chart in the AHL.
  • Bruce McCurdy from Cult of Hockey. Bruce is involved in two prospect countdowns: one with C&B and the other at the Cult of Hockey. We’ll discuss the difference in the two, and I’ll ask Bruce this question: which Oiler forward prospect not currently in the NHL does he consider the best?
  • Craig Moonen from Krush Performance. Baseball’s pennant races are heating up, the drug scandal has had a major impact and some of these pitching performances are outrageous.

@Lowetide_  on twitter and 10-1260 via text. This is going to be fun!

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42 Responses to "RE 13-14 MIKE BROWN: SORROW"

  1. RexLibris says:

    Kent Wilson and I have tried to describe to some fans how poor the Keegan Kanzig (3rd round) pick was for the Flames. A comparison to Cameron Abney seemed to settle some of the debate.

    Why teams do this, year after year, I’ll never understand. Go with skill and maybe some toughness will emerge. If not, trade the skill for the sandpaper and get something extra in return, because nothing retains value in the NHL like mediocrity in a Leafs jersey and skilled forwards.

  2. justDOit says:

    I don’t mind Brown – or at least I mind him much less than the other FPs who have graced the lineup in the last few seasons. The man can switch hands during a jack-rabbit punch stream and not miss a beat. Not a one. I’m not sure where that shows up on advanced stats though.

    Let’s hope his new coach and fourth line mates can employ him successfully.

  3. Ca$h-Money! says:

    I’ve said it before, but his facespunched/EV60 is amongst the best in the league.

    For the record I’m in the anti-enforcer camp. I always thought that a tiny fourth line that played 5 minutes/night against the other teams enforcer 4th line (omark/arco/rajala) vs. (eager/steckle/brown equivalent) would actually be one of the most efficient in the game.

    That said….

    If we are going to have a player on the team who isn’t good at hockey, Brown is my first choice.

    1. He actually fights
    2. He hits too.. and hard
    3. He always looks like, if he isn’t currently punching someone, he wants to be.

    The problem with Brown was Krueger, one of the reasons I’m quite happy he’s gone. 9 minutes/night on average? That’s insane. This guy is a big improvement on Hordichuck from a fighting standpoint, I would argue he is slighlty better at hockey.. 4 minutes max please, and only 40 games per year.

    Not only did he play too many minutes, he even seemed to get important minutes. I can’t quantify it but I swear I saw him out there with 5 minutes to play when we were down by 1 at least a couple of times last year… INSANITY

  4. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I told you last time: Pin-ups is not a great album. Have we even had something from Aladdin Sane yet?

    ahh, crap. Sorrow is fine. Brown is fine.

    ——–
    “We talk about facial hair”

    Not nearly enough. Do you know how long it’s been since a President wore a beard? Too damn long, that’s how long!

    Harrison for crying out loud!

    ———
    “a good rain that stills the thunder and brings out the sunshine.”

    I don’t think of these things when I think of Waylon and Jessi. I think of beer bottles hurled across rooms, furniture antagonized, tables upset and lots of stormy emotions.

    ———
    “How much did he play? 8:35 at evens with Edmonton, 4:36 in Toronto.”

    Wow! That’s quite an indictment of RK. Any chance DE runs him this much? Do we know how he feels about enforcers?

    ——–
    “And don’t keep trading third round picks to fill the hole. You bet. I think that’s maybe the biggest contribution Mike Brown can give to the Oilers. It’s an important role.”

    HAHAHAHAHA!

    It’s like “security theatre.” It doesn’t serve a practical, functional role. But it makes everyone feel like something important is being done.

  5. Lowetide says:

    Rom: You’ll be happy to know there are TWO songs from Aladdin Sane still to come. Also, this is the only one from Pinups–Across the Universe is from Young Americans. THAT album has three songs in the series, possibly four depending on what I decide to do with Corey Potter.

  6. russ99 says:

    RexLibris:
    Kent Wilson and I have tried to describe to some fans how poor the Keegan Kanzig (3rd round) pick was for the Flames. A comparison to Cameron Abney seemed to settle some of the debate.

    Keenan Kanzig? Wow, what a great hockey goon name.

    They can play “Mother” after all his fights.

  7. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Rom: You’ll be happy to know there are TWO songs from Aladdin Sane still to come. Also, this is the only one from Pinups–Across the Universe is from Young Americans. THAT album has three songs in the series, possibly four depending on what I decide to do with Corey Potter.

    Boy! Is my face red!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJNGMM2pNME

    That’s what you get for rejecting covers out of hand. They all blend together into an album they aren’t on.

    Who gets “Up the Hill Backwards”?

  8. Lowetide says:

    Ryan Whitney, but he’s not here.

  9. Woodguy says:

    CHI’s 4th line the SC playoffs:

    Frolik, Bolland, Stalberg

    Sure, during the season Bollig got into 25 games (7:54/gm), but only 5 in the playoffs when they sat Frolik.

    That’s 4th line might be better than the Oiler’s 3rd.

    I think MacT is guiding the team in that direction, but its not there, not close.

    Eakins sat Orr duing the AHL playoffs.

    Perhaps this is another item he and MacT are on the same page.

    Hopefully Brown only gets into 40 or so games and his EVTOI is about 4min and they double shift the excellent top 6 wingers that they have looking for a match up.

    Also,

    I understand there are elements of the game that intelligent men feel a need to fill with an enforcer, and that I’m not on the ice so don’t know the true value of an enforcer to the overall game.

    This is a good point.

    I’m not one to usually defer to authority (unless the authority has impeccable credentials and track record) as often authority is as full of shit as the next guy, but not being “in the room, and on the ice” doesn’t allow us to make that call on these guys.

    Seeing the SC Champions sparingly use their face puncher in the regular season and almost not at all in the playoffs is reason to hope saner heads are prevailing.

    Travis Yost did some grinding through the fight data in the NHL last year and came to an interesting conclusion: http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/8/4/winning-a-fight-has-impact-on-future-outcomes

  10. murphy says:

    Uggg…. You almost forget about brown when you make the line combinations all summer and he isn’t mentioned… Then you see this. But like you said if it saves early round draft picks from being thrown out the door ill have him.

    Off topic but a decent discussion point i think, everyone says mact dodged a bullet when clarkson signed in TO and I agree, but did he screw his entire summer up by being wrapped up in that chase? We had heard for days that the oil were in on Clark Mcarthur, even on the opening day of free agency rishaug and stauffer both tweeted he was on the radar. Then Mcarthur signs with Ott about two hours earlier than clarkson did with the leafs. I wonder if this was a case of Mcarthur feeling slighted that his hometown team was waiting on clarksons decision before they could commit to him?

    At the time and still now i believe as soon as clarkson asked for over 4 mil and for over 4 years term the oil should have dropped that hunt and went hard after Mcarthur, shoring up that second line LW spot with a player who can help get the puck headed in the right direction. I would say a slight downgrade on Perron but he most likely could have been had at 3.5 over 3 years so a bit cheaper and would have cost no assets. This would have us in the position of having a third line of Paajarvi-Gordon-Hemsky which i think we all would be more comfortable with. We would also still have a second rounder next year to offer up in a trade if needed, say for a real 4th line C.

    Obviously this is all retrospect and can’t be done now but I just wanted to point out how the clarkson chase may have hurt us more than we thought and that hurt could continue well into the future with an obvious lacking of a fit at 3rd Line LW.

  11. russ99 says:

    Brown is only there to prevent liberties taken on our kids.

    But it remains to be seen if and when the coaching staff thinks that there’s a need to put him in a game and not in the pressbox.

  12. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    murphy,

    FWIW me and a lot of others were hot on the tail of MacArthur. But all we have are rumors at this point.

    We don’t really know if MacT chased him or not, or if he was interested in signing with the Oil. Some of the rumors said he wanted to stay in the East.

    He would be perfect though. Cheap, reliable and you get to keep Magnus.

  13. theres oil in virginia says:

    I think there’s been a mistake. This post should be filed in the TCH series. Heeheehee.

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Who gets “Up the Hill Backwards”?

    Lowetide:
    Ryan Whitney, but he’s not here.

    I think the Bowie song titled: “Down the Hill Ass First at Full Speed Right Out of the League” would work better for him.

  14. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    That’s exactly it… lots of people on the internet were interested in MacArthur. If I had to pick 2 “bloggers choice” players from free agency, meaning players internet-fans of all teams thought would be a great pick up, I would say:

    MacArthur
    Gordon

    So we got one of them. Sometimes I have to chuckle as people seem to think that failing to land 4 out the 5 top free agents, while not overpaying, is somehow a crime. Fact is you can’t chase everybody (what if everybody says yes, and you don’t have that many spots to fill?) and you can’t control for players desires.

    The reality is we don’t know who wants to come here, we don’t know who they inquired into, and we don’t know what numbers they offered to players that ultimately signed with other teams.

  15. Ducey says:

    If Eager has sorted himself out (and by all accounts he was very good in the AHL) then he should be on the roster ahead of Brown. Right?

  16. tollen77 says:

    Hey LT, The Team 1260 seems to have stopped updating SoundCloud on August 2nd for us out-of-towners to listen to the show. Can you pass something along to Conner or whomever does this… Hillmond, Saskatchewan wants to hear the show!!!

  17. OilClog says:

    Ducey:
    If Eager has sorted himself out (and by all accounts he was very good in the AHL) then he should be on the roster ahead of Brown.Right?

    All depends on what you’re wanting, Eager is the better player clearly, but Brown is a face smasher, Eager intimidates no one, Brown intimidates facial structure, all depends what you want playing those 5mins a night.

  18. bookje says:

    This is a terrible song – stop being so mean to Mike Brown – he is doing the best he can – he deserves a better song.

  19. hags9k says:

    tollen77,

    Try tunein.com or the tunein radio app. That’s how Saskatoon enjoys the show!

  20. FastOil says:

    Woodguy,

    WG, did you determine Bolland was 4th line by TOI or is there a site with that info?

  21. striatic says:

    i was going to write about how so long as he only gets 4 to 6 minutes a night i am okay with Brown, but then i realized that i’ve been writing that about Oilers 4th line tough guys since they picked up Eager and Hordichuk.

    no longer.

    Ryan Jones should be the 4RW. i don’t care how much he’s being paid, he can play on the 4th line and he’d do a better job than with those short, sheltered minutes than Mike Brown would. Jones’ Corsi Rel might as well be on a different planet, and that’s with the eye injury.

    the Oilers need a legitimate 3LW. that was supposed to be PRV after Clarkson this year, but that didn’t happen and now the entire plan for the bottom 6 is shot all to hell and signing Jesse Joensuu doesn’t count as fixing it. i do hope the Finn surprises me but you don’t build your bottom 6 around that kind of gamble or the gamble that Smyth reverses his decline.

    Oilers need a 3LW, i think desperately, and there are still UFAs out there who can do the job. if those players won’t sign, then trade for someone dammit. if every player in the bottom 6 needs to be a threat to score, then make sure EVERY player really is. no holes. sick of holes.

  22. Ca$h-Money! says:

    striatic,

    I’d rather pick up a 4C and play arco/lander on the 3LW spot.

  23. striatic says:

    Ca$h-Money!:
    striatic,

    I’d rather pick up a 4C and play arco/lander on the 3LW spot.

    that is a clever idea, but neither of those players have proven a “threat to score” at the NHL level, and certainly not at a third line level.

    the Oilers need an Actual NHL Player at 3LW.

    not a rapidly declining vet. not a gamble on an AHL player. an Actual NHL Player.

  24. linkfromhyrule says:

    striatic: that is a clever idea, but neither of those players have proven a “threat to score” at the NHL level, and certainly not at a third line level.

    the Oilers need an Actual NHL Player at 3LW.

    not a rapidly declining vet. not a gamble on an AHL player. an Actual NHL Player.

    Blasphemy!! No wait your completely right. I get the feeling that there is too much rolling of the dice going on in our bottom six. Sure it could all pay off, or it could all bust. Jones returning to form, joensuu, arco/lander, the entire bottom six minus boyd Gordon and hemsky.. the list goes on, all gambles.

    I would have thought macT would see the inherent risk in this, being a former coach, but I guess I was wrong

  25. FastOil says:

    striatic: that is a clever idea, but neither of those players have proven a “threat to score” at the NHL level, and certainly not at a third line level.

    the Oilers need an Actual NHL Player at 3LW.

    not a rapidly declining vet. not a gamble on an AHL player. an Actual NHL Player.

    Jones Gordon Hemsky

    It has to be Jones because they spent 1.5M signing him. Another Oiler off season gamble, because if he and Joensuu are bad the team is again too weak 6-12, especially if Hemsky gets hurt.

    Funny the Hawks can get something for defensive C Bolland who ended up 4th line in the playoffs but the Oilers can’t get squat for a legit offensive player in Hemsky with several teams in real need of his skills. Why is that?

    Edit – Hemsky with a completed half season and no further shoulder problems as well.

  26. Jordan says:

    FastOil:
    Funny the Hawks can get something for defensive C Bolland who ended up 4th line in the playoffs but the Oilers can’t get squat for a legit offensive player in Hemsky with several teams in real need of his skills. Why is that?

    Cup rings and Size – two qualities that are over-valued this year.

  27. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Jordan: Cup rings and Size – two qualities that are over-valued this year.

    And Centers. And hometown boy.

  28. FastOil says:

    Jordan: Cup rings and Size – two qualities that are over-valued this year.

    These things are usually the case, Bolland has the rings but is smaller than Hemsky, and equally if not more injured.

  29. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: And Centers. And hometown boy.

    And Nonis.

  30. rickithebear says:

    Enforcer and body checks:

    A former oiler said, stick battles for pucks is much harder on the body than being run.
    Any who dare to question that.
    Get your wife to punch you in your non dominate shoulder 3 times.
    Once every 20 minutes.

    On the other shoulder
    Then hold a small 20 lb sledge hammer out for 20 sec with arm extended.
    Then a 60 sec break. For 36 cycles.
    A fair rep of each.

    Brown is an utterly terrible player.
    I hope eager is healthy.

  31. spoiler says:

    rickithebear: Get your wife to punch you in your non dominate shoulder 3 times.
    Once every 20 minutes.

    I doubt she will agree to slow the rate that drastically. Or to stop at three.

  32. Ribs says:

    14. How much did he play? 8:35 at evens with Edmonton, 4:36 in Toronto.

    And both the GM and coach are gone this year. How strange.

  33. Bag of Pucks says:

    Starman would’ve been a good choice for Brown. As in, he makes other men see stars with liberal applications of fistius cuffus.

    Rebel/Rebel was a perfect fit. Fame for Hemsky, not sure. Given the fanbase divide, maybe ‘Loving the Alien’ instead? ; )

    LT, I’m really hoping you’ve stayed with Bowie through his current recorded output. Would be great to see/hear something from Heathen or The Next Day in this series.

    Oops. I think I just temporarily turned the RE into a request line. Sorry bout that.

  34. regwald says:

    Lowetide:
    Khaira signs

    http://michigantechhuskies.com/sports/mice/2013-14/releases/201308073cq04s

    Anyone else think this is a year too soon ? I think he could have continued to grow as a player and improve with one more year of college.

    Thoughts ?

  35. Truth says:

    Crazy that Khaira signed after 1 yr in the NCAA. He is now eligible to play in the AHL, correct? Also, what are the rules for WHL? Could he be a walk-on at the Oil Kings camp?

  36. Truth says:

    regwald,

    My opinion is that there is no developmental tool equivalent to actual games played. He will play more games in whatever league he ends up in rather than staying in school. It’s too bad for him that he stayed in “minor” junior to keep his NCAA eligibility just to blow it after one year when he probably could have played in the WHL, where he would have played more games against better competition. Obviously I am CHL biased, but it’s my $.02.

  37. regwald says:

    Truth:
    regwald,

    My opinion is that there is no developmental tool equivalent to actual games played.He will play more games in whatever league he ends up in rather than staying in school.It’s too bad for him that he stayed in “minor” junior to keep his NCAA eligibility just to blow it after one year when he probably could have played in the WHL, where he would have played more games against better competition.Obviously I am CHL biased, but it’s my $.02.

    I understand your line of thinking, it’s just he made the decision, took the route and now is trying to fast track things. I think one more year in college is not a bad thing.

  38. FastOil says:

    Truth:
    regwald,

    My opinion is that there is no developmental tool equivalent to actual games played.He will play more games in whatever league he ends up in rather than staying in school.It’s too bad for him that he stayed in “minor” junior to keep his NCAA eligibility just to blow it after one year when he probably could have played in the WHL, where he would have played more games against better competition.Obviously I am CHL biased, but it’s my $.02.

    But then we probably wouldn’t have got him. Now that he is on an NHL team’s radar he can pursue what he wants (which I am sure is the NHL not engineering or whatever right now) without his parents freaking out. He wasn’t a dead to rights prospect so I am sure they wanted their bright kid to have college.

    I hope this guy keeps progressing and plays C. An ass kicking 2 way C in the system would be nice about now.

    And from outside first OV to boot.

  39. DeadmanWaking says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Mirror, Mirror

    I believe this is one segment from the episode Desperately Seeking Symmetry, but the design of the web site is failing to throw me a definitive bone. It’s all bone by implication.

    This recent EconTalk episode had the potential to be pretty good but degenerated into one of the most frustrating episodes they’ve ever done. Munger wanted to talk more about hockey, but Russ Roberts went all Slap Shot squeamish, preferring to harbor his illusions that baseball is a man’s game (but really, in baseball, one only brushes up against manhood).

    Munger on Sports, Norms, Rules, and the Code

    Munger mentions the theoretical foundations of enforcement cultures. It has to do with inability of the zebras to ferret but a fraction of the flagitious infractions, such as jack-hammer butt-end spears delivered into the greater splanchnic nerve.

    Whenever law is lax recourse, The Code ensues. MacT is actually mentioned as if he’s some random goon with no concept of personal safety. In the narrative they present, he’s not forsaking his lid because he’s particularly astute to the danger he’s running. I loved MacT’s post-game quip about watching Horcoff block a puck with his neck: “I was thinking ‘a life well lived’”. The last man standing without a lid had pall-bearers on speed dial, but you’d never know that from this podcast when they mention in passing “some guy named MacTavish” (the transcript is incomplete).

    They also fail to mention that Orr could chuck ‘em with the best if he wished to. Here’s the level of the hockey discussion:

    Mike: The code went actually further than that. So, there was a time when a player, Pat Quinn, leveled Bobby Orr. And Bobby Orr was a highly skilled scorer. His job was to score. He wasn’t a fighter.

    Russ: He was a defender. He was the first offensive defenseman. He was a superstar. One of the five greatest hockey players of all time.

    Mike: And was a great passer. So he had a lot of assists. So, Pat Quinn hit Bobby Orr, and it was perfectly fair, the way that he hit him. It was open ice, he saw him coming, didn’t use his stick, it was a perfectly fair check. And when the other team decided that they would fight Quinn, Quinn’s own team wouldn’t defend him. Because he had violated the code. Nobody else would stand up. If you violate the code, you are going to have to answer for that yourself and you are going to have to fight the other team’s big guy.

    Doesn’t that exchange make you want to punch someone?

    The Night Pat Quinn Knocked Out Bobby Orr has the story a bit different.

    In OTC goes to his grave with the Bobby Orr hit he mentions that they later buried the hatchets, but doesn’t say whether they were ever removed. I think they just broke off the shafts and left them there, as they usually did back in the day.

    Bobby wasn’t such a nancy-boy when he hadn’t been crushed clean into the smelling salts.

    In that first season, Orr was challenged physically as a rookie by the veterans, and he earned respect by fighting Montreal tough guy Ted Harris and defeating him in his first NHL fight.

    Bobby Orr vs Earl Heiskala Dec 13, 1969

    Perhaps the baseball portion of that podcast was less ignorant. Russ actually likes baseball.

  40. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler: I doubt she will agree to slow the rate that drastically.Or to stop at three.

    Or to just target the shoulder.

  41. uni says:

    That’s what kills me about Brown, those sheltered minutes and the sorrow balloon. Wouldn’t having someone like Omark filling those 8.5 minutes of shelter be better? Think what he could do with that soft comp.

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