IT’S COMING DOWN

After last night, names like Anton Belov, Jesse Joensuu, Will Acton and Tyler Pitlick are moving up the organizational depth chart. Is it enough to keep them in Edmonton for the winter? It’s also time to question the “incumbents” and their future on the roster.

azorcan

CERTAIN OILERS (17)

  • Goalies (2) Devan Dubnyk and Jason LaBarbera
  • Defensemen (5) Jeff Petry and Ladislav Smid, Justin Schultz and Andrew Ferense, Nick Schultz
  • Centermen (2) Taylor Hall, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (inj), Sam Gagner (inj), Boyd Gordon
  • Left Wing (3)  David Perron, Jesse Joensuu, Ryan Smyth
  • Right Wing (4) Jordan Eberle, Nail Yakupov, Ales Hemsky, Ryan Jones, Steve MacIntyre

For the first time this training camp, there appears to be a real chance one of the original choices for the roster is falling off the pace. We don’t know for certain, but the media seems to believe Ryan Jones may not make the final cut. That’s a bigger news item in these parts because it didn’t happen under the previous regime: if you were signed to a one way deal, you made the roster. I’ve placed Steve MacIntyre on the certain list, although of course that’s dependent on him showing up healthy (he’s apparently in terrific shape).

sec3

THE UNCERTAIN OILERS (12)

  • Goalies (none)
  • Defensemen (5): Anton Belov, Denis Grebeshkov, Corey Potter, Phil Larsen, Oscar Klefbom, Martin Marincin, Taylor Fedun
  • Center (3): Anton Lander, Mark Arcobello, Will Acton, Andrew Miller
  • Left Wing (3): Linus Omark, Ryan Hamilton, Ben Eager
  • Right Wing (1): Mike Brown

This bunch is going to see some cuts soon. The underlined names are the players I believe we’ll see make it to opening night based on the current roster, but there’s no difference I can see between Larsen and Fedun. Grebeshkov and Potter are candidates for opening night IR, so there’s an opportunity to retain the rights to a few players into the season.

THE OUTSIDERS (8)

  • Goalies (4): Richard Bachman, Olivier Roy, Tyler Bunz, Ty Rimmer
  • Defensemen (6): Brad Hunt, Martin Gernat, Brandon Davidson, David Musil, Darnell Nurse, Joey Leach
  • Centermen (3): Ryan Martindale, CJ Stretch, Travis Ewanyk
  • Left Wing (5): Curtis Hamilton, Austin Fyten, Kale Kessy, Mitchell Moroz, Jujhar Khaira
  • Right Wing (4): Tyler Pitlick, Matt Ford, Derek Nesbitt, Cameron Abney

Stubborn kinds of fellows here. Pitlick had a terrific game last night, inspiring some big time verbal from the coach. Nurse is coming from even farther back but will not give in. Fun, fun training camp.

sec1

POSSIBLE FINAL ROSTER

  • Goalies (2) Devan Dubnyk and Jason LaBarbera
  • Defensemen (7) Jeff Petry and Ladislav Smid, Justin Schultz and Andrew Ference, Nick Schultz and Anton Belov, Phil Larsen, Corey Potter (inj)
  • Centermen (4) Taylor Hall, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (inj), Sam Gagner (inj), Boyd Gordon, Will Acton, Mark Arcobello
  • Left Wing (5)  David Perron, Jesse Joensuu, Ryan Smyth, Ryan Hamilton, Steve MacIntyre
  • Right Wing (5) Jordan Eberle, Nail Yakupov, Ales Hemsky, Ryan Jones, Mike Brown

That would mean Denis Grebeshkov, Taylor Fedun, Darnell Nurse, Anton Lander, Linus Omark, Ben Eager and Tyler Pitlick would be cut. I do think the club will make a deal for a center upgrade. It looks like Acton has a job, I’m less certain about Lander and Arcobello (who at this point would make the team by default).

sec4

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

  • Harrison Mooney from Puck Daddy and the Vancouver Sun. We’ll talk about Kassian, Weise and some of the Canuck youngsters pushing hard for roster spots.
  • Travis Yost from Hockeybuzz. The Senators have 5 NHL centermen–what do they need? Would they trade Zack Smith?
  • James Mirtle from the Globe and Mail. Toronto Maple Leafs are ad libbing like crazy after the Clarkson suspension–James breaks it down and we discuss where they rank.
  • Jason Strudwick from Team 1260. Jason is a contestant in “Battle of the Blades” and we’ll talk about the Oilers and Steve MacIntrye.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

207 Responses to "IT’S COMING DOWN"

Newer Comments »
  1. j says:

    Hey LT – what is your opinion of Acton? I haven’t watched too much of the pre-season but from what I saw he is motivated however appeared to be a step or two out of synch. Perhaps it was nerves and the coaches feel they can work with him. At least he has one coach in his corner!

  2. Lowetide says:

    j:
    Hey LT – what is your opinion of Acton?I haven’t watched too much of the pre-season but from what I saw he is motivated however appeared to be a step or two out of synch.Perhaps it was nerves and the coaches feel they can work with him.At least he has one coach in his corner!

    I think he’s looked better than Lander, and that’s all he had to do (Lander probably makes the roster too as it stands). Acton’s game has some nice range–he can play defensively, penalty kill, is not a shrinking violet and as witnessed last night is not without charm offensively.

    In a deeper race he might be a ways back, but in this one he’s in the photo.

  3. godot10 says:

    I think it would help Pitlick’s development to see regular season NHL games before being sent down. Let him see for himself exactly how far he has to go, and if you are lucky, he might rise to the challenge now. He has the tools. His competition is all flawed.

  4. goldenchild says:

    LT I know this is the best guess out of camp but if you are a team trying to make playoffs who plays more games for your Grebs or Larson? Love the way Grebs passes the puck and we’ve seen him play well before, if he can get his conditioning up I think they prefer him.

    They definitely need an NHL C, surplus of D at NHL and AHL level should be able to get them one. Hope they talk themselves into Lander or Archo playing important mins.

    Anton Belov i seen you good!

    Pitlick and Hamilton pushing for a roster spot is one of the best and most underated storylines of the camp. The 2010 draft had been looking like a giant missed opportunity behind Hall but now looking at it, if you end up with one of the 5-10 best forwards in the NHL, possibly 2 bottom 6 forwards in Pitlick and Hamilton and a NHL Dman in Marincin well you’ve more than covered the bet. Even if they dont make it out of camp they at least look like guys that will be useful callups and have a future, which is more than I thought they would be this summer.

  5. Bos8 says:

    I’m still cautious because of the weaker opposition, pre regular season, but if Belov continues on this curve we could start dancing. Man, he looks like a gooder. Hold me back. Those three hard passes should have resulted in at least another goal. Sees the ice good, hey?

  6. slopitch says:

    I’m done with Jones. Just doesn’t do enough with the puck or smart enough without it.

    Pitlick with a great game right at the point I was ready to give up on him. Prospects are so unpredictable. I guess there must be hope for Lander as well. Eventually these guys either decide to take the next step or fade away. Never know when though.

  7. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “We don’t know for certain, but the media seems to believe Ryan Jones may not make the final cut. That’s a bigger news item in these parts because it didn’t happen under the previous regime”

    There’s a creative double meaning here: Under the previous regime the braintrust danced with the girl they brought to the prom, but also in previous iterations the media would basically never have said a bad word about Jones. Never. Something has turned.

    ———
    “I’ve placed Steve MacIntyre on the certain list, although of course that’s dependent on him showing up healthy (he’s apparently in terrific shape).”

    I think that is right. Some speculated that he might just be here for the balance of the preseason… but I don’t think MacT is going to burn a 50 man spot for that (it’s unlikely he’ll get picked up a second time… we may be stuck with him). He’s here to stay. The question is going to be will MacT reevaluate down the line and bury him around x-mas?

    ———-
    “Curtis Hamilton”

    how is he still up? I don’t recall him playing a game. Is he injured? regardless, unless Eakins intends on playing him… isn’t it a waste to have him sit up here doing so little?

    Maybe he’s here to keep Pitlick company on his stretch drive a la Klima for Belov?

    at any rate, I’d like him back in OKC where he belongs getting ready to try and earn a contract.

    ——–
    “Harrison Mooney from Puck Daddy”

    ohhh… this should be interesting. He’s been a giant apologist for Kassian since Saturday.

  8. FastOil says:

    Clarkson hopping off the bench = 10
    Kassian breaking Gagner’s jaw with stick = 5
    League = ridiculous

  9. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    goldenchild: The 2010 draft

    Davidson has shown very well too. Pelss… well… a big old sad, but he was very compelling and had an outside shot getting closer every day.

    But… We’ve seen nothing of Curtis yet. Ryan Hamilton has shown well and looks to have pulled a Potter: career AHL player follows a coach that likes him to the NHL, shows well(ish).

  10. bookje says:

    I don’t know that sending players down who have one-way contracts is new under the MacT regime, remember a guy named Zack Stortini?

  11. MrDooman says:

    FastOil:
    Clarkson hopping off the bench = 10
    Kassian breaking Gagner’s jaw with stick = 5
    League =ridiculous

    I’d say they got it right. Coming off the bench is right in the rule book as a nono with an automatic ten game suspension.

    And Kassians is eight games (3 pre + 5 regular season)

  12. Numenius says:

    FastOil:
    Clarkson hopping off the bench = 10
    Kassian breaking Gagner’s jaw with stick = 5
    League =ridiculous

    It’s unfortunate but not ridiculous. The Clarkson case wasn’t as bad as Kassian’s in a sense, but it crosses a much more serious line because of the need to make bench clearing brawls absolutely off-limits.

  13. Woodguy says:

    LT,

    Why do you think they would pick Brown over Eager?

    WIth SMac on the roster Brown becomes more redundant that Eager.

    If all the talk about “having to be able to make a play” is true then its Eager in a walk.

    On the other hand they gave Brown an “A” for the game.

  14. Woodguy says:

    PREDICTION:

    RNH plays Thursday Oct 10th in Montreal to start the big road trip.

    Insert him into the lineup on the road to minimize the “rushing him into the line up questions”

    Both Hall and Horcoff said that taking faceoffs was the last thing to come back in rehab and RNH has apparently been working on them for a month already.

  15. bookje says:

    Woodguy:
    LT,

    Why do you think they would pick Brown over Eager?

    With SMac on the roster Brown becomes more redundant that Eager.

    If all the talk about “having to be able to make a play” is true then its Eager in a walk.

    On the other hand they gave Brown an “A” for the game.

    I think both MacT and Eakins sometimes present very firm ideas and then adapt when face with reality (which is a good thing).

  16. bookje says:

    Woodguy,

    RNH is probably much closer to coming back than stated. I think MacT is making a effort to change Edmonton’s reputation for forcing players to return early from injuries.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:

    LT,

    Why do you think they would pick Brown over Eager?

    WIth SMac on the roster Brown becomes more redundant that Eager.

    If all the talk about “having to be able to make a play” is true then its Eager in a walk.

    On the other hand they gave Brown an “A” for the game.

    Strictly based on fighting. Eager is the btter player, no doubt.

  18. jp says:

    goldenchild,

    The Hamilton you see is Ryan Hamilton, an undrafted 28 year old who played for Eakins the last couple of years in the AHL. Curtis Hamilton is still in camp due to an injury (not sure what), but unfortunately nothing has changed with his status as an apparent bust.

  19. Racki says:

    At this point I think brown is more certain than Jones. Maybe I’m just blinded by my liking brown. But I think he’s useful. I know I’m probably in the minority here, but the Brown Acton Eager line stood out in a good way for me yesterday. They were quite hard on the forecheck and even managed a goal. The goal against was just a bad Dubnyk goof up. I’d keep that whole line together if there is room. Jettison Jones. Even Brown can take a regular PK shift. Plus the coaches have been really using their stars out there. I love Jones, but I think he’s outta here.

  20. bookje says:

    Woodguy:
    Good piece by Mirtle in the Globe and Mail on Goon Culture:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-goon-culture-comes-back-to-bite-them/article14489122/

    That’s a great article – thanks for linking it. It’s great how he points out the responsability of team goonery leading to problems for eveyone involved. Let’s face it, the Oilers now have a goon because Vancouver has a strategy of team goonery.

  21. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    bookje: I think both MacT and Eakins sometimes present very firm ideas and then adapt when face with reality (which is a good thing).

    I mentioned this yesterday, but I think for MacT especially, the idea of a “puck possession team” and all the rest are still new routines he is trying to make part of his natural habits and way of seeing the team…

    But in moments of crisis (perceived or real doesn’t matter) he retreats to a well-worn routine, one he is more comfortable with.

    I think MacT is in the middle of a correction compensating for extreme growth over a short period of time.

    ———-
    RE: Brown vs. Eager

    I think they might take Brown for two reasons:

    1) he a more willing fighter who the team may feel can play 75% of the games (SMac is not going to dress very often… we hope).

    2) when he’s on the ice you notice him because he is so chaotic, he’s running around hitting everything (or trying), falling down, he shoots the moment the puck touches his stick, etc. i.e., he gets noticed (no press is bad press kinda deal)

  22. jp says:

    Lowetide: Strictly based on fighting. Eager is the btter player, no doubt.

    In theory I agree, but we haven’t seen it in quite a while. I haven’t watched all the pre-season games, but based on what I have seen Brown has even looked like a comparable/better hockey player than Eager. Has Eager been the better player overall?

  23. Racki says:

    @romulus.. This is why I like Brown and would keep in the lineup. Plus he’s decent at drawing the odd penalty. I think Eager should be better but his game is missing too much now. In limited minutes, those guys are decent to have though and I think they could be a good pair. Hard to say until they play some better lineups.

  24. Racki says:

    jp: In theory I agree, but we haven’t seen it in quite a while. I haven’t watched all the pre-season games, but based on what I have seen Brown has even looked like a comparable/better hockey player than Eager. Has Eager been the better player overall?

    That’s the thing. I think Eager being the better player is completely hypothetical. Brown seems to show up each game and bring the same effort each time whereas you don’t know what Eager you get on a given night.

  25. Bos8 says:

    I think Pitlick will finally get his shot. Up till now between the injuries and the focus on winning in OKC he wasn’t getting much of a chance. He’s done the one thing he needed to do last night. He separated himself from the heard. So often kids get labeled and it’s all she wrote for their career. It seems that now the focus in the Oilers organization is more on development of the assets. High time.

  26. denny33 says:

    I like Mike Brown and I love his effort and I actually applauded his arrival last year….

    However, Ryan Jones and Mike Brown are playing a completely different level of hockey out there…

    A lot of AHL ( some WHL guys ) guys out there last night and Mike Brown and Ryan Jones really stand out…..really bad.

    Like Saturday night, Ryan Jones struggled with the puck when nobody was around him…ground himself into the ice in the corner. No Jets there yet. Common event.

    Jets radio is really talking about Belov….

  27. match eddy says:

    It’s becoming more foggy as to what is the ideal situation with Hall. Honestly, if he rips up the league at center, and enjoys it, should he move back when the C’s are healthy?

    Also, i understand the precedent behind having vets like smyth on the line, but might not Joensuu be a better match as a grinder/strong on the boards/faster/some hands/block out the sun in front of the net option for LW with Hall and Hemmer? I love Smyth, but he looks terribly slow on that line, and even though it is only preseason, I have seen the play die on his stick more often then not when that line is on the ice.

  28. goldenchild says:

    jp,

    Thanks JP, my bad

  29. supernova says:

    I feel like a proud dad, seeing how Pitlick has played this pre-season.

    I have been on here and elsewhere defending the selection for years.

    Pitlick has to own alot of what has transpired in previous seasons but so does the organization.

    I think Pitlick still gets sent down but he makes Ryan Jones very vulnerable.

  30. Wolfie says:

    Numenius: It’s unfortunate but not ridiculous. The Clarkson case wasn’t as bad as Kassian’s in a sense, but it crosses a much more serious line because of the need to make bench clearing brawls absolutely off-limits.

    Seriously?!? This kind of logic is ridiculous. Kassian’s actions were abhorrent. He purposely swung his stick violently at Gagner with the intent of getting a piece of him. He used his stick as a weapon and then states that he didn’t mean to hurt him…. That’s akin to loading a gun, pointing it at someone with your eyes closed. You didn’t mean to kill him….

    Coming off the bench to engage somebody isn’t nearly as heinous. The NHL has got their shit backwards.

  31. Racki says:

    Wolfie: Seriously?!?This kind of logic is ridiculous.Kassian’s actions were abhorrent.He purposely swung his stick violently at Gagner with the intent of getting a piece of him.He used his stick as a weapon and then states that he didn’t mean to hurt him….That’s akin to loading a gun, pointing it at someone with your eyes closed.You didn’t mean to kill him….

    Coming off the bench to engage somebody isn’t nearly as heinous.The NHL has got their shit backwards.

    Here, here. The league’s discipline is a joke sometimes. All Clarkson did was try and prevent Scott from murdering Kessel (although the guys on ice had it handled)

  32. Oilanderp says:

    jp,

    I think you’ve hit it jp. Eager WAS a better player. Eager HAD pedigree. For me, the pedigree is on the level of Cam Barker’s. Mike Brown has been a more useful hockey player to the team during this preseason. Add the fact that Brown would do anything he could anywhere anytime for his teammates and that leaves Eager out in the cold.

    P.S. Cake played in Victoria within the last few weeks. They were great!

  33. supernova says:

    No offence to anyone but i seriously cant believe the amount of posts on toughguys / 13th or 14th forwards.

    I know we havent had much to cheer about but really.

    If all the kids play with more confidence and get more minutes because of having a facepuncher on the roster it is worth it. simple as that, if it doesnt work he is on waivers, not a big loss then.

  34. BlacqueJacque says:

    Wolfie: Seriously?!?This kind of logic is ridiculous.Kassian’s actions were abhorrent.He purposely swung his stick violently at Gagner with the intent of getting a piece of him.He used his stick as a weapon and then states that he didn’t mean to hurt him….That’s akin to loading a gun, pointing it at someone with your eyes closed.You didn’t mean to kill him….

    Coming off the bench to engage somebody isn’t nearly as heinous.The NHL has got their shit backwards.

    It’s a Mickey Mouse league.

    Basically zero games for Dale Weise and his attempted headshot on Hall. Just two seasons after the league lost Crosby for so long.

    I really think plays like Kassian’s or Weise’s or any deliberate attempt to injure should basically start at 10 games, and go to “length of injury + 5 games” if the target player actually got hurt. This isn’t the NFL, where a 3-game suspension matters.

    I mean, who wouldn’t trade 5 games of Kassian or 0 games of Weise lost, if you knock out some of the best players on an opposing team for weeks or months?

  35. Woodguy says:

    bookje: I think both MacT and Eakins sometimes present very firm ideas and then adapt when face with reality (which is a good thing).

    I like when people aren’t married to an idea and are willing to re-examine things.

    That being said, playing terrible hockey players doesn’t really help you win.

    I’d like them to stay married to the idea of playing hockey players.

    If they have their goon in Smac, maybe Hamilton and Joensuu can pick up the other part of it.

  36. Bos8 says:

    Agreed, why all the focus on bottom end hacks?

    I can see why Eakins preaches fitness. That swarm defense is great, works like a charm and will get better as the players develop the nuances. The thing is, you’d better be able to skate and skate a lot. None of this – come back down your lane and assume position.

    It was even mentioned on the broadcast.
    Winnipeg were setting up for the FO all hunched over and their sticks on their knees. Sucking air. Loved it.

  37. kooler says:

    David Steckel available? Big guy…who plays centre.

  38. Oilanderp says:

    If we get any more injuries our 13th fwd will be our top 6 guy! 8-|

  39. bookje says:

    Woodguy: I like when people aren’t married to an idea and are willing to re-examine things.

    That being said, playing terrible hockey players doesn’t really help you win.

    I’d like them to stay married to the idea of playing hockey players.

    If they have their goon in Smac, maybe Hamilton and Joensuu can pick up the other part of it.

    In some ways, I hope that they have enough concentrated goonishness (goonery?) within the mass that is Smac that they don’t feel the need to have players like Brown around. However, I fear that they are going to dress an all-goon line of Brown, Eager, and Smac.

  40. TheOtherJohn says:

    I would not play RNH until he was ready to come back. If that meant November 1 so be it. Worst thing that can happen is for him to reinjure it and spend season recovering/comeback/reinjuring etc. We knew what it was coming in and should be ready to deal with it properly. The urge to bring hinm back early is driven by the inexperience/inability of 4C to slide up the lineup.

    Liked Acton last night, ditto Pitlick, Hamilton, Belov and Joensuu. Thought Larsen & Fedun are putting pressure on Greneshkov who is looking like a 7/8 D on this team.

    Still think Oilers need an upgrade at 4C but it is what it is

  41. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    I’m married to the idea of protecting and keeping our stars healthy and productive.

    People seem to be focusing on Kassian butchering Gagner and a 4th line player trying to end Taylor Hall’s career. There was SO much more garbage to that game. Hemsky getting viciously cross-checked.

    Potential Olympian Eberle getting drilled by a 7th defenceman all night.

    All night long it happened. Only a matter of time before one of are stars was going to get hurt.

    Dale Weise. Andrew Alberts ? Really?

  42. Bank Shot says:

    Too bad MAct didn;t spend the $3 million he spent on Grebs and Jones on someone who can play.

    Another Ference/Gordon level pickup would have been much better bang for the buck.

  43. wheatnoil says:

    The problem with demoting Jones and/or Grebeshkov is that you can’t bury their contract completely in the minors. Based off of Capgeek, demoting either of them would retain a $575K cap hit for the Oilers. Mind you, the guys you’d be replacing them with (guys like Hamilton and Acton) only carry a $600K cap hit, so you’d end up with a net savings in cap room by demoting them.

  44. Truth Movement says:

    Omark on waivers. Perhaps Pitlick is being sent down too.

  45. Lucinius says:

    Right now, I’m personally hoping for a line-up like this on opening day (L-C-R — sorry LT);

    Smyth — Hall — Hemsky
    Perron — Gordon — Eberle
    Joenssu — Acton — Yakupov
    Eager/Brown/Jones/SMac– Lander — Jones/Brown/Eager/SMac

    Last line is basically up in the air because.. well, it makes me want to kill someone.

    Anyways, idea is this;

    First line and second line are set, however, you double-shifted Perron and Joenssu onto the first line several times a night to add punch to the first line and help keep Smyth fresh as the season goes along. Mainly, you’d throw Perron out there in neutral zone or defensive zone face-offs when you want to rest Smyth a bit, and Joenssu when they’re in the offensive zone.

    Also, a couple times a night you double shift Yakupov onto that top line. Its nothing against Hemsky, but it gives the line a different look, gets him more ice time and generally just messes with the other team.

    Second line you largely leave alone.

    Third line I could see subbing Lander in for Acton if the latter struggles during a game.

    Fourth line you send out there a bit and hope the score isn’t 23-0 by the time they find the bench while you raise a glass to the poor fucking soul that is Anton Lander to be given such shitty line-mates year after year when trying to break into the NHL.

  46. Colonel Obvious says:

    I’m not getting the Pitlick love. He’s a winger who skates up and down the boards accomplishing nothing. He’s not going to score, he has no track record of scoring, and a winger who can’t score is useless to me.

    Conversely, I think Arcobello has been quite good. He has the puck skills to maintain possession with good passes and by being able to take passes and he can makes plays in the offensive zone to create chances.

    Meanwhile Acton and R. Hamilton are generic AHL types. I’m not sure how they help the team.

    On the D, Larsen has to make the team. Great skater, good puck skills, big shot, these are things that help you win.

    My lineup looks like this:

    Smyth–Hall–Hemsky
    Perron–Gordon–Eberle
    Joensu–Arcobello–Yakupov
    xxxx–xxxx–xxxx

    The fourth line is a black hole of suck and I don’t want to talk about it. Not a real NHL player anywhere no matter who they play.

    The problem with the D is that I want both Larsen and Belov to be in the starting lineup but doesn’t that make 4 RD. In any case the best six are: Schultz/Ference, Smid/Petry, Belov/Larsen.

    What do you know this is almost an actual NHL team even with Gagner and Hopkins out.

  47. wheatnoil says:

    Colonel Obvious:
    The fourth line is a black hole of suck and I don’t want to talk about it.Not a real NHL player anywhere no matter who they play.

    Eakins mentioned fitness levels again yesterday and specifically stated that Taylor Hall is going to play a lot. I think he’s going to run the top 9 ragged for the month of October before the cavalry arrive from the IR.

  48. Lucinius says:

    Might as well throw in the defense, I guess;

    Smid — Petry
    Ference — J. Schultz
    N. Schultz — Belov
    Larsen
    Grebs/Klefbom/Fedun/Marincin

    Top pairing is the shut down duo. They will likely see the most ice time because of that, but the second pairing won’t be too far behind.

    Second pairing gives you a steady guy like Ference who can play and help mentor the young Schultz in how to not be chaos in his own zone. Expect some bad nights, but on the whole should see some good things, especially whenever J. Schultz gets that puck in the offensive zone.

    Third pairing is the best third pairing we’ve had in years. Belov can play and likes that right side. He’s the puck mover (and apparently pretty damn good at it). N. Schultz plays the more defensive role and with him not likely having to cover for as much chaos as he did last year and in a more protected role, should really see an improvement over last year.

    Larsen won the seventh position, imo. Lot of chaops to his game, but he can move himself and the puck pretty well. Slot him in if someone gets hurt or struggles mightily for a stretch.

    The rest? Callups in that order. Grebs showed very poorly in the pre-season, but we all know he does have a lot of upside. Hopefully he can find it somewhere in the minors if not claimed.

  49. rickithebear says:

    looking at our forwrds over the 6 games:
    15 GF 10GA
    GF
    Jeonsuu 4: 3 w/ arco: 2 w/ pitlick
    Perron 4; 3 w/ Gordon 3 w/ Ebs
    Ebs 4; 3 w/ Perron 2 w/ gordon
    Gordon 3; 3 w/ perron 2 w/ ebs
    Arco 3; 3 w/ Jeonsuu 2 w/ pitlick
    Hall 3; 2 w/ Smyth; 2 w/Hemsky; 1 w/ Jeonsuu
    Yak 3; 1 w/ lander 1 w/ Arco 1 w/ Ham
    Lander 2 1 w/ jeonsuu 1 w/ yak
    Smyth 2 2 w/ Hall 2 w/ Hemsky
    Hemsky 2 2 w/ hall 2/ w/ Smyth
    pitlick 2 2 w/ jeonsuu 2 w/ Arco

    GA:
    Hamilton 4 2 w/ yak 2 w/ gagner
    Yak 4 2 w/ ham 2 w/ (omark arco)
    Arco 3 (2 w/ omark yak) 1 w/ Ham
    Acton 3 w/ (brown eager) 1 w /(ebs and perro)
    Ebs 2 1 w/ Ham 1 w/Acton
    Gagner 2 w/ Ham
    Brown 2
    Eager 2
    Jeonsuu 1
    pitlick 1 w/ Ham
    hall 1
    Perron 1
    ebs 1

    So based on performance:
    Not feelings!
    Perron +3 – Gordon +3 – Ebs +2
    Jeonsuu +3 – Arco (w/o Omark, Ham, Yak) +3 – Pitlick +1(+2 w/o Ham)
    Smyth +2 – Halll +2 – Hemsky +2
    XXX-Lander +2 – Yak +2 ( w/o omark, Arco, Ham)

    Hamilton -3
    Brown -2
    Acton -2
    Brown -1
    Eager -1
    There is seeing?
    There is believing!
    there is a clear level of Suck
    Arco and Yak must never play together!

  50. jake70 says:

    Woodguy:
    PREDICTION:

    RNH plays Thursday Oct 10th in Montreal to start the big road trip.

    Insert him into the lineup on the road to minimize the “rushing him into the line up questions”

    Both Hall and Horcoff said that taking faceoffs was the last thing to come back in rehab and RNH has apparently been working on them for a month already.

    WG, you just gave me a panic attack. That away game in Montreal is Oct. 22 (Tuesday). I have my travel plans all made for flights, tickets, hotels etc for that and the Ottawa game 3 days earlier. I had to check the schedule again…lol. Heart rate now normal. And I would love it if RNH is playing that game.

  51. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bank Shot:
    Too bad MActdidn;tspend the $3 million he spent on Grebs and Jones on someone who can play.

    Another Ference/Gordon level pickup would have been much better bang for the buck.

    IIRC Grabo signed a one year deal for 3M.

    That would be a huge upgrade on Jones and Grebs right now.

  52. wheatnoil says:

    Hall-Smyth-Hemsky
    Arcobello-Perron-Eberle
    Acton-Eager-Hamilton

    … are the first 3 lines from Stauffer. I imagine Pitlick gets a go on line 4 with Lander & SMac, unless Lander’s being sent down.

  53. Bar_Qu says:

    Truth Movement:
    Omark on waivers. Perhaps Pitlick is being sent down too.

    Thus ends the Omark experiment. I think he tries to find his game in the AHL, but I wonder if he can stomach the lower league for a better part of the season? Europe and the money will seem awfully enticing when you are facing a December in Topeka.

  54. Bar_Qu says:

    I don’t see where Pitlick is sent down. Can you fill us in where you saw this?

  55. Racki says:

    @Lucinius..
    I like it but I’d sub Arco for Acton on line 3 and Acton for Lander on line 4. Makes more sense to me. 3rd line can play soft minutes

  56. Mr DeBakey says:

    Bank Shot: Too bad MAct didn;t spend the $3 million he spent on Grebs and Jones on someone who can play.

    I think its time to defend Grebeshkov
    He’s had a few moments to be sure
    But he’s also been very good at times
    He’s just getting re-adjusted to the smaller ice
    Last game his partner Belov was all over the damn ice and slow to react a few times.
    [I like Belov]

    Depth on D
    You can see MacTavish isn’t interested in reliving the Smid [9th Overall] adventure.
    Or the Bisaillon adventure either.

    But yeah, the Jones thing…

  57. Truth Movement says:

    Bar_Qu,

    Stauffer tweeted about Omark, Eakins and Pitlick not being on the ice. Then the word came down on Omark. I saw it as a possibility that Pitlick could be next. Unlikely though.

    Edit: just saw that Pitlick chose to rest this morning.

  58. Truth Movement says:

    Mr DeBakey: I think its time to defend Grebeshkov
    He’s had a few moments to be sure
    But he’s also been very good at times
    He’s just getting re-adjusted to the smaller ice
    Last game his partner Belov was all over the damn ice and slow to react a few times.
    [I like Belov]

    Depth on D
    You can see MacTavish isn’t interested in reliving the Smid [9th Overall] adventure.
    Or the Bisaillon adventure either.

    But yeah, the Jones thing…

    Yeah, I’m starting to get the feeling that people are choosing to overlook the “reward” aspect of Grebs’ “risk/reward” game. I think with a little rust shaken off Grebeshkov could be a very strong asset. Then again, I still probably put Belov ahead of him.

  59. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bar_Qu: Thus ends the Omark experiment. I think he tries to find his game in the AHL, but I wonder if he can stomach the lower league for a better part of the season? Europe and the money will seem awfully enticing when you are facing a December in Topeka.

    He held out signing in Europe all off-season and came back on a pretty reasonable two-way deal

    http://www.capgeek.com/player/1686

    structured so that there would be little risk for either the Oilers or another team to take a flyer on him.

    He came back pretty dedicated (though the results aren’t in yet). I think he’d be fine and have a good attitude playing for any AHL team as long as he feels the NHL team holding his rights is going to give him a shot if he can put a run of good games together.

  60. stevezie says:

    jake70,

    See you at the Ottawa game. I’ll be the guy in the Kurri jersey.

  61. Woodguy says:

    denny33:
    Woodguy,

    I’m married to the idea of protecting and keeping our stars healthy and productive.

    People seem to be focusing on Kassian butchering Gagner and a 4th line player trying to end Taylor Hall’s career. There was SO much more garbage to that game. Hemsky getting viciously cross-checked.

    Potential Olympian Eberle getting drilled by a 7th defenceman all night.

    All night long it happened. Only a matter of time before one of are stars was going to get hurt.

    Dale Weise. Andrew Alberts ? Really?

    You assume that Smac on the bench stops that stuff.

    It doesn’t.

    Remeber in Hall’s rookie year he was been pounded by Dorsett all night, finally got upset, got in a fight and ended his season with an anke injury?

    Smac was in the line up that night.

    Goons don’t seem to stop much.

  62. stevezie says:

    Colonel Obvious,

    I agree with you on sample sizes, but I am not quite as bullish on Arco’s resume as you are. He did well as the AHL Steve Ruchinn but players with far better numbers than he have failed to translate their games to the NHL. He definitely earned a chance, but he hasn’t looked good in the big leagues yet.

    Obviously Omark wanted to make the team, but I would assume he knows this is not a major set-back, all he has to do is go down and blow the doors off the AHL (again). Really, re-adjusting to the N. American game on the AHL’s first line.1st unit powerplay might do him more favours then playing on the Oilers’ fourth with no special teams time. More room for error, more chances to get good at the things he needs to be good at.

    He will need to light it up though.

  63. Bank Shot says:

    Truth Movement: Yeah, I’m starting to get the feeling that people are choosing to overlook the “reward” aspect of Grebs’ “risk/reward” game. I think with a little rust shaken off Grebeshkov could be a very strong asset. Then again, I still probably put Belov ahead of him.

    I think you can live with the risk in the case of guys like Schultz, Green, Karlsson.

    No reason to overlook glaring defensive deficiencies when the reward is likely 30 points at best.

  64. bookje says:

    Truth Movement: Yeah, I’m starting to get the feeling that people are choosing to overlook the “reward” aspect of Grebs’ “risk/reward” game. I think with a little rust shaken off Grebeshkov could be a very strong asset. Then again, I still probably put Belov ahead of him.

    You mean, you would put Belov, who was 8th in the KHL amongst D-man in offence ahead of Grebeshov who was 120th?

    Grebeshov has been rusty for 3 years – how long does it take for the rust to shake off?

  65. fifthcartel says:

    I’m a little worried with Grebeshkov being injured they will give Nurse a couple games instead.

  66. Woodguy says:

    jake70: WG, you just gave me a panic attack. That away game in Montreal is Oct. 22 (Tuesday).I have my travel plans all made for flights, tickets,hotels etc for that and the Ottawa game 3 days earlier.I had to check the schedule again…lol.Heart rate now normal.And I would love it if RNH is playing that game.

    Ooopps!

    Meant Leafs on the 12th in TOR

  67. Woodguy says:

    bookje: You mean, you would put Belov, who was 8th in the KHL amongst D-man in offence ahead of Grebeshov who was 120th?

    Grebeshov has been rusty for 3 years – how long does it take for the rust to shake off?

    Grebs to the IR w/ groin injury as per LT on the radio

  68. Ryan says:

    Colonel Obvious,

    are you the same poster as captain obvious? or DSF?

  69. Jordan says:

    Woodguy: You assume that Smac on the bench stops that stuff.

    It doesn’t.

    Remeber in Hall’s rookie year he was been pounded by Dorsett all night, finally got upset, got in a fight and ended his season with an anke injury?

    Smac was in the line up that night.

    Goons don’t seem to stop much.

    You’re right. The only effect of having a bigger goon in the lineup COULD be deterrent. But, like any deterrant, theother guys need to see it as a threat, AND beleive that you would consider using it.

    If there was no instigator, they could deal out on ice justice, but at this point, I think the instigator is as likely to be removed as composite sticks are.

    With Eakin’s comments yesterday about it being his team’s responsibility to protect the other team, I don’t see ANYONE, let a long SMac getting the green light to go out and retaliate. If you missed it, here’s the relevant portion:

    “We want our guys to complete… And it’s a violent sport. It is! You’re out there with this hard puck, there’s blades on the end of your feet, you’ve got a stick in your hands and you’re skating around at 30 miles an hour… Like… And you’re asking them to hit each other!

    It’s a violent game.

    But the one thing I firmly believe in: as much as I want my team to play tough and to play hard and to complete, they have a firm duty to protect the other guys on the other team. And the things that you saw the other night… That’s over the line for me. And will our team step over the line? Absolutely we will – we’ll make a mistake somewhere along the way. But in the end, this isn’t about suspensions or getting fined, or whatever. This is about playing hard and knowing where the line is – About where you could really do some damage”

    I’m really hoping that he’s just positioning himself for when SMac goes over the line against Vancouver later this year. With Dallas’ poker face though, it’s hard to know.

  70. Colonel Obvious says:

    Ryan,

    I’m Captain Obvious but then DSF stole my captain and people started confusing us. So I promoted myself.

  71. godot10 says:

    Truth Movement: Yeah, I’m starting to get the feeling that people are choosing to overlook the “reward” aspect of Grebs’ “risk/reward” game. I think with a little rust shaken off Grebeshkov could be a very strong asset. Then again, I still probably put Belov ahead of him.

    Grebeshkov’s and Larsen’s risk/reward is less valuable on a team who has Justin Schultz getting 22-24 minutes TOI. The actual ability to defend becomes more important, which should shift the scales in favor of Belov and Fedun. I think Belov is #6, and Fedun is the real #7, but who will play in OKC instead of the pressbox. If one wants to maximize the use Justin Schultz strategically, the other two RD have to be able to defend. That, plus Belov and Fedun are not slouches offensively. Both can move the puck, without the chaos on D that Grebeshkov and Larsen bring.

  72. Hammers says:

    I’m seeing Belov as a top 4 “D” on this team . Give him another week or so to catch up plus he can play either side . Also must agree Larsen deserves to stay but Grebs also needs another week or so . Answer is to trade N.Schultz even if you eat say 1 mill of salary . The other 3 ,Belov Grebs & Larsen are all at a lower cap hit . If your 7 are J.Schultz , Petry , Ference , Belov Smid , Larsen & Grebs with Potter on IR ; Klefbom Fedun & Marachin for call up duty our “D” will be in great shape. Still think Nurse needs to go back to junior . .Is there a deal for McT to trade N. Schultz for a center worth 2mill -2.5mill straight up eating salary difference .For me Acton isn’t the answer for the 4th line . Arco can replace Gags untill return .Lander needs more time .

  73. Zipdot says:

    Sam Gagner out, Gilbert Brule in. Let’s make it happen, Mac.

  74. Zipdot says:

    Colonel Obvious: I’m Captain Obvious but then D*F stole my captain and people started confusing us. So I promoted myself.

    But now that he’s Dead Cat Bounce, you can go back!!!

    Or are you like the guy in Bridge on the River Kwai, who got drunk with power after masquerading as a Major for a while? And now you refuse to let go of the women and the martinis to go on a fool’s errand to blow something up with plastique explosives?

  75. Zipdot says:

    godot10: I think it would help Pitlick’s development to see regular season NHL games before being sent down. Let him see for himself exactly how far he has to go, and if you are lucky, he might rise to the challenge now. He has the tools. His competition is all flawed.

    Pitlick’s shot-decision process:

    ( X ) Am I just barely over the blue line, like 1 foot in?
    ( X ) Can I clearly see the goalie’s crest, and will he see my shot the whole way?
    ( X ) Do I have time and space to squander? Snipers to look off?
    ( X ) TIME TO SHOOT!

  76. Rondo says:

    Derek Stepan would look good in a Oiler uniform

  77. Woodguy says:

    godot10: Grebeshkov’s and Larsen’s risk/reward is less valuable on a team who has Justin Schultz getting 22-24 minutes TOI. The actual ability to defend becomes more important, which should shift the scales in favor of Belov and Fedun.I think Belov is #6, and Fedun is the real #7, but who will play in OKC instead of the pressbox.If one wants to maximize theuse Justin Schultz strategically, the other two RD have to be able to defend.That, plus Belov and Fedun are not slouches offensively.Both can move the puck, without the chaos on D that Grebeshkov and Larsen bring.

    I agree with this 100%, Fedun in my #7.

    I also think they send him down because he’s the only one that doesn’t have to clear waivers.

  78. Cobbler says:

    Zipdot,

    Agree the shot selection isn’t there for Pitlick and that is reflected in his career SH%. Paajarvi had the same thing on the go.

    Pitlick needs to start seeing the ice better and realizing he has more time and space to get to the net. Paajarvi seemed to figure this out last year and its shows in his 2012 NHL boxcars.

    There is time for Pitlick to find this yet, but it needs to be soon.

  79. Cobbler says:

    Does anyone know if Fedun will have to clear waivers to get assigned to the AHL?

    Edit: I see Woodguy answered above. Tks.

  80. Zipdot says:

    Peckham on waivers along with Omark.

  81. Woodguy says:

    denny33:
    Woodguy,

    I’m married to the idea of protecting and keeping our stars healthy and productive.

    People seem to be focusing on Kassian butchering Gagner and a 4th line player trying to end Taylor Hall’s career. There was SO much more garbage to that game. Hemsky getting viciously cross-checked.

    Potential Olympian Eberle getting drilled by a 7th defenceman all night.

    All night long it happened. Only a matter of time before one of are stars was going to get hurt.

    Dale Weise. Andrew Alberts ? Really?

    Here;s a link to the line up the night Torres nailed Eberle:

    http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?id=2010021192

    O’Marra fought him afterward.

    Strudwick, Peckman, JFJ and Vandermeer were all in the line up.

    None are actual goons, but they could all beat Torres up if the decided to.

    Didn’t stop Torres from playing the way he plays.

  82. Truth says:

    Rondo,

    I was thinking that myself. Without losing one of the first overalls or Eberle, you’d think it would have to include swapping Gagner out of town based on projected salaries. Don’t see how they could pull it off.

  83. Zipdot says:

    Woodguy: O’Marra fought him afterward.

    Oh yeah! I remember that. Man, I liked O’Mara, especially after that fight; damn shame his development stagnated.

  84. Zipdot says:

    Gene Principe ‏@GenePrincipe 1h

    “We didn’t see enough for him to unseat someone in the forward group. He tried to do too much by himself.” D.Eakins on Linus Omark waivers

  85. DeadmanWaking says:

    I once read a historical novel about modern day Britain and France set over many centuries of the Viking era. Eventually the raids became so frequent that British coastal towns started to hire mercenary Germans, keeping them in beer and bread.

    Two problems.

    First, when the Viking raiding parties actually showed up, the fearless Germans sometimes stuck their finger in the wind, which tended to make them terrifically homesick all of a sudden just like that.

    Second, if the Vikings didn’t show up, after a while with nothing much to do, the Germans decided to upgrade their pay scale to beer, bread, and broads and began just generally taking whatever they wanted from their kind hosts.

    Even in the best case scenario, the towns suffering their biker-gang barracks mainly managed to deflect the invading Vikings to maraud nearby villages who had elected instead to employ a useful fourth line (useful for actually winning hockey games). Rarely were the Vikings driven back to the sea empty handed.

    When Scott taps Kessel, he’s doing a pretty good job of making EFFers indispensable all around (eat, fuck, and fight).

    It’s a simple matter. The goons have figured out how to protect their job description. Can’t live with them, can’t live without them.

    Nothing makes Scott’s job more secure than having every other team in his division bulking up with his player type. He might be less keen on this if the other teams were managing to find guys weighing 300 lbs who could stand upright on skates while chucking bombs.

    His rationale in the moment might differ, but there’s no major downside to cause him to rethink these choices. Eventually people figure out where their bread is buttered. Even the slowest guy on skates.

    A capital offense among the stevedore fraternity is lining up against a team refusing to employ one of their own and failing to deliver notice that this just isn’t acceptable. Hey, it’s not like they can’t enforce this among themselves.

    The Sopranos – We’ve created a golem!

    Just as the league is beginning to get the German problem under control, along comes Mayor Carlyle figuring he can play both ends to his own advantage.

  86. RMGS says:

    “For the first time this training camp, there appears to be a real chance one of the original choices for the roster is falling off the pace. We don’t know for certain, but the media seems to believe Ryan Jones may not make the final cut.”

    It’s not just the media. Coach Eakins on Jones: “…He’s fightin’ for a spot…”

  87. Truth says:

    Woodguy,

    Not trying to be a smartass. Obviously you object to the theory that an enforcer-laden lineup ensures the stars aren’t consistently targeted. What do you think the solution is?

    Clearly, Vancouver has been unimpressed with the way Boston and Chicago treated their stars (Sedins) throughout the last few years in the playoffs and in attempt to thwart this have actively tried to employ a bigger and more unpredictable lineup (Hodgson for Kassian, Sestito off waivers, etc). What do you believe the solution is? Vancouver was undeniably targeting the Oilers young stars on Saturday, Boston clearly targeted the Sedins in the SCF years ago. If you look at it in reverse, the Oilers on Saturday had a minimal threat in the lineup (Brown), and Vancouver was incredibly soft when compared to the Bruins. The Oilers posed no threat to the young players in Edm vs. Vancouver and it showed. Vancouver years ago posed no threat to the Boston players and it showed.

    I do not believe the answer is a strong PP. The Oilers and Canucks had superior PP skill in both instances, if I remember correctly.

    Although Gagner ended up with a broken jaw and will miss a month or so you could say he got lucky. Who knows what would have happened if he caught that in the eye or ended up with a serious concussion. Hall is consistently getting lit up and surely end up with an injury at some point if he is continuously targeted as he is now. They have to do something to protect them. I would argue that bringing in MacIntyre is at least an attempt. If there’s a proven better way, I would love to see the Oilers employ it.

  88. Racki says:

    Woodguy: You assume that Smac on the bench stops that stuff.

    It doesn’t.

    Remeber in Hall’s rookie year he was been pounded by Dorsett all night, finally got upset, got in a fight and ended his season with an anke injury?

    Smac was in the line up that night.

    Goons don’t seem to stop much.

    You are incorrect. MacIntyre was scratched. Not saying that goons work, but I think there is no dispute that they don’t work if they aren’t in the game.
    http://oilers.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2010020964

  89. Truth says:

    Truth,

    Why don’t you throw out a few more “what do you think the solution is?”s.

  90. RMGS says:

    Yet another gem from Coach Eakins (LT will love this): “This isn’t about top-six, bottom-six to me… I would rather take the top-six and put ‘em vertical, and have basically three lines that… the other team sits there and goes, “hmmm…which one am I gonna check tonight.”

    UNICORNS ARE REAL!

  91. Zipdot says:

    DeadmanWaking: among the stevedore fraternity

    I see what you did there!

  92. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Truth:
    Woodguy,

    Not trying to be a smartass.Obviously you object to the theory that an enforcer-laden lineup ensures the stars aren’t consistently targeted.What do you think the solution is?

    Clearly, Vancouver has been unimpressed with the way Boston and Chicago treated their stars (Sedins) throughout the last few years in the playoffs and in attempt to thwart this have actively tried to employ a bigger and more unpredictable lineup (Hodgson for Kassian, Sestito off waivers, etc).What do you believe the solution is?Vancouver was undeniably targeting the Oilers young stars on Saturday, Boston clearly targeted the Sedins in the SCF years ago.If you look at it in reverse, the Oilers on Saturday had a minimal threat in the lineup (Brown), and Vancouver was incredibly soft when compared to the Bruins.The Oilers posed no threat to the young players in Edm vs. Vancouver and it showed.Vancouver years ago posed no threat to the Boston players and it showed.

    I do not believe the answer is a strong PP.The Oilers and Canucks had superior PP skill in both instances, if I remember correctly.

    Although Gagner ended up with a broken jaw and will missa month or so you could say he got lucky.Who knows what would have happened if he caught that in the eye or ended up with a serious concussion.Hall is consistently getting lit up and surely end up with an injury at some point if he is continuously targeted as he is now.They have to do something to protect them.I would argue that bringing in MacIntyre is at least an attempt.If there’s a proven better way, I would love to see the Oilers employ it.

    You’ve hit the nail squarely on the head.

    Gillis has sais several times that the team he took to the Stanley Cup final was built on skill and a tremendous PP.

    But, since the league has backed away from the post lockout crackdown on obstruction and physical play, the Canucks were way to soft to compete in the playoffs when the refs put their whistles away,

    ‘While he has bemoaned having to change the teams style from speed and skill to a more “truculent” one, he has become convince he needed to load up on “heavy” players.

    Thus trading for Kassian, picking up Sestito, signing Kellan Lain (6’6″ 225) and keeping Andrew Alberts (6’5″ 220) when he has more skilled D available.

    Like the Oilers, Vancouver was also hoping to make teams pay on the PP but, when the refs swallow their whistles, it doesn’t work.

    Also worth noting is that PP performance can vary widely from year to year so relying it for deterrence is not a good bet.

  93. Zipdot says:

    I think it should be pointed out that Gagner would have fought Kassian in a moment. He wouldn’t have shied away from that at all. But Kassian didn’t give him a chance.

  94. spoiler says:

    Wow. Secretary. Is somebody getting spanked today?

  95. spoiler says:

    I’m not thinking that SMac was brought in as a deterrent. I’m thinking he has been brought in to allow the Oilers to instigate trouble. To be proactively physical and dirty, not reactively. I can’t see any other reason for the pick up.

    What else does “making the players feel taller and bigger” mean?

    Some of that means having the courage to go to the dirty areas and do battle.

    Some of that means getting dirty and battly in the dirty areas.

  96. FastOil says:

    You could probably trade Lucic for Eberle. Chiarelli will likely take the extra .2 PPG at the same salary I’m sure. No one will mess with Lucic. They will still mess with everyone else, and Lucic is too good to have running people and getting suspended. Back to there being no point.

    Guys have to be their own keepers as Eakins said. Everyone needs to be careful – both Gagner and Hall were guilty of watching the play and not the hairy knuckles that were playing chippy and out to get them. Hall said as much.

    They will either get sick of being run and get dirtier, or take it like Hemsky. Either way, .2 PPG is something like one win over a season. It adds up to making the playoffs or not across the roster. This is why it matters to have better players.

    Lowe told a story in an Oiler’s book I was given and read, can’t remember which one, about them walking past the victorious Islander room. The Isles were battered and bruised, the young Oilers not so much. The light went on, they saw what it took. I guess he forgot or something.

    Get beat up – win the Cup! My new motto.

  97. delooper says:

    It looks like there’s less veterans on the oilers D tonight. Putting more pressure on the hopefuls.

  98. Ryan says:

    Dead Cat Bounce,

    Well, the endless debate that starts with acknowledging that punishing players with a PP or having a SMac in the lineup does almost zero as a deterrent.

    There are certain players that have an appetite for making a career out of injuring star players and a few minutes in a penalty box, a short suspension, or SMac starring at them doesn’t provide any deterrent.

    Knocking out a Michalek or Hossa can turn a series which is far more than a few minutes in the box, a PP goal against., or even a long suspension to a guy who doesn’t matter to the team’s success.

    There’s certainly a spectrum of this player type with guys like Torres who head hunt star players on the far end and even the docile Sedins one of which was more than happy to test out RNH’s shoulder with a heavy cross check last season.

    Kassian is probably quite proud of himself for injuring Gagner knowing the impact it will have on a division rival. That’s sad, but true.

    Long suspensions are the only deterrent for dangerous guys like Torres while having more tough players up and down the lineup is probably the only answer for everything else.

  99. OilClog says:

    Woodguy: You assume that Smac on the bench stops that stuff.

    It doesn’t.

    Remeber in Hall’s rookie year he was been pounded by Dorsett all night, finally got upset, got in a fight and ended his season with an anke injury?

    Smac was in the line up that night.

    Goons don’t seem to stop much.

    Smac wasn’t dressed that game, Renney never ever ever ever put SMAC out at the right time ever when he was dressed.

    Goons can’t do anything glued to the bench, I don’t believe Eakins will use his goon the way previous coaches have.

    Eakins is a doer, not a talker. Expect Gooning to be done.

  100. Woodguy says:

    Racki: You are incorrect. MacIntyre was scratched. Not saying that goons work, but I think there is no dispute that they don’t work if they aren’t in the game.
    http://oilers.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2010020964

    Dammit!

    Good catch.

    Not getting off my narrative though

  101. OilClog says:

    Ryan:
    Dead Cat Bounce,

    Well, the endless debate that starts with acknowledging that punishing players with a PP or having a SMac in the lineup does almost zero as a deterrent.

    There are certain players that have an appetite for making a career out of injuring star players and a few minutes in a penalty box, a short suspension, or SMac starring at them doesn’t provide any deterrent.

    Knocking out a Michalek or Hossa can turn a series which is far more than a few minutes in the box, a PP goal against., or even a long suspension to a guy who doesn’t matter to the team’s success.

    There’s certainly a spectrum of this player type with guys like Torres who head hunt star players on the far end and even the docile Sedins one of which was more than happy to test out RNH’s shoulder with a heavy cross check last season.

    Kassian is probably quite proud of himself for injuring Gagner knowing the impact it will have on a division rival.That’s sad, but true.

    Long suspensions are the only deterrent for dangerous guys like Torres while having more tough players up and down the lineup is probably the only answer for everything else.

    Taking away the instigator and allowing the players to police themselves would be the better deterrent. IMO

  102. Woodguy says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: You’ve hit the nail squarely on the head.

    Gillis has sais several times that the team he took to the Stanley Cup final was built on skill and a tremendous PP.

    But, since the league has backed away from the post lockout crackdown on obstruction and physical play, the Canucks were way to soft to compete in the playoffs when the refs put their whistles away,

    ‘While he has bemoaned having to change the teams style from speed and skill to a more “truculent” one, he has become convince he needed to load up on “heavy” players.

    Thus trading for Kassian, picking up Sestito, signing Kellan Lain (6’6″ 225) and keeping Andrew Alberts (6’5″ 220) when he has more skilled D available.

    Like the Oilers, Vancouver was also hoping to make teams pay on the PP but, when the refs swallow their whistles, it doesn’t work.

    Also worth noting is that PP performance can vary widely from year to year so relying it for deterrence is not a good bet.

    Neither Boston nor Chicago played a SMac type in the playoffs.

    Boston doesn’t even employ one and Bollig didn’t play near the finals.

    SMac doesn’t skate at an ECHL level.

    Which Boston player abused the Sedins the most?

    5’9″ 183lb Brad Marchand.

    Do you really need Smac to take care of him?

    Shawn Thornton wasn’t on the ice against the Sedins much at all.

    None of these arguments are any good for a Smac type.

  103. Racki says:

    Woodguy: Dammit!

    Good catch.

    Not getting off my narrative though

    No I think you still have a valid point. To be honest I’m a dinosaur. I still want a tough guys/fighters. Ideally you want guys who can play too. The neanderthal in me wants to see someone.. Anyone.. Get beat down when out players get hurt. I concede that Mac won’t stop guys like Torres from running around. It’s unlikely he’ll get opportunity to fight them even. But I’d like to see him beat the sh– out of someone now and then to remind people we aren’t going to make it easy on them anymore as it always has been. I’d like to see brown and eager walking the line when it comes to being clean. Want to see more hits like Mac on Boyd where the other team can’t do anything about it.

    I know in the end though that hall will still get hit, but at least the Oilers can take some of them with him.

  104. Racki says:

    Sorry for any spelling issues or one paragraph rants… Typing on a cell phone!

  105. fifthcartel says:

    Not sure if anyone has brought it up but -

    Darrell Romuld (CTV) ‏@CTVDarrell 42m

    The Oklahoma City Barons sign former @WHLHurricanes goaltender Ty Rimmer @Rimms35 to an AHL contract after brief stint with the Oilers.

    Wonder if this means they’ll have Bachman/Rimmer in the AHL and Roy/Bunz in the ECHL?

  106. godot10 says:

    Zipdot: Pitlick’s shot-decision process:

    ( X ) Am I just barely over the blue line, like 1 foot in?
    ( X ) Can I clearly see the goalie’s crest, and will he see my shot the whole way?
    ( X ) Do I have time and space to squander?Snipers to look off?
    ( X ) TIME TO SHOOT!

    Pitlick is competing against Eager, Brown, Jones, and Hamilton…none of whom bring much offense either. You can go with a proven failure, or you can give a prospect a first hand look at the level he has to get to. Pitlick can skate and hit and handle the puck better than any of those guys. Which means he makes the other bottom sixers better automatically.

    You have basically zero risk of losing any of the other guys, so give Pitlick a chance, and see if he can rise to the challenge. Take him to the big show. He might fail this year, but it will focus him for the rest of the year in OKC. Let him see feel the speed and the intensity of a few real NHL games.

    Your proven failures will still be there to fall back on.

  107. Woodguy says:

    Ok, I’m done with the enforcer debate.

    You all have every right to be wrong.

    Next,

    LT, get your Ntrco pills.

    Heard Eakins’ avail today and he said (paraphrased)

    “Everybody talks about a top 6.
    I’d rather turn that on its side and run 3 line out there that make the other team think “which one of these lines are we going to check””

    3 SCORING LINES!!

    I SWEAR TO GOD HE SAID THAT!!

    Also,

    He mentioned that he likes Smyth with 4 and 83 and that “everyone is trying to push Smyth down the line up, but doesn’t see why”

    As ,much as I like Smytty, he’ll hit a wall around game 30.

    By that time 89 and 93 should be back and if there isn’t another major injury, he probably will slide down.

    Also,

    If all of SMac, Eager, and Brown all make the team then MacT will have continued with “the best you can hope for is that they are a non-factor” in the bottom 6.

    Smac and one of Eager and Brown is barely tolerable.

    All 3 is bad.

  108. Woodguy says:

    Racki: No I think you still have a valid point. To be honest I’m a dinosaur. I still want a tough guys/fighters. Ideally you want guys who can play too. The neanderthal in me wants to see someone.. Anyone.. Get beat down when out players get hurt. I concede that Mac won’t stop guys like Torres from running around. It’s unlikely he’ll get opportunity to fight them even. But I’d like to see him beat the sh– out of someone now and then to remind people we aren’t going to make it easy on them anymore as it always has been. I’d like to see brown and eager walking the line when it comes to being clean. Want to see more hits like Mac on Boyd where the other team can’t do anything about it.

    I know in the end though that hall will still get hit, but at least the Oilers can take some of them with him.

    I love watching a good hockey fight too.

    I don’t consider goons a good hockey fight.

    If 5’9″ Marchand is pissing you off then give it back.

    If you are a Sedin/RNH etc who is under instruction not to retaliate in order to not take you off the ice, there are lots of other guys who can do it. Doesn’t have to be a designated face puncher.

    Also,

    He’ll be suspended for the first Oiler/VAN game, but if SMac grabs Kassian and pounds the shit out of him, that’s fine.

    I just honestly think Kassian will never give him the option.

    Strudwick hit on it today on LT’s show.

    He said he could bet Tortarella will tell his guys “No one engage with MacIntyre. We want him on the ice”

    Struds had some interesting thoughts on goons too.

    Thinks they are pretty useless as well.

  109. delooper says:

    Woodguy:
    As ,much as I like Smytty, he’ll hit a wall around game 30.

    Maybe not. It doesn’t look like anyone is going to ask him to play centre this year. Eakins seems to know Smyth needs some sheltering, playing him with fast fully-tooled players. Eakins wants to give him the best chance for success.

  110. Bulging Twine says:

    This is a good conversation to have.
    I think we all can agree that wins are the most important thing.
    Having Taylor Hall and Sam Gagner play all 82 games will most certainly help us win more games.
    Taylor Hall was certainly targeted during that VCR game and many games last year.
    Is there a way to help increase the odds of Hall playing an entire season? Does having MacIntyre help that? I am not sure. To me it seems that most enforcers don’t enforce anything. I think an enforcer is a pitcher who throws the brushback pitch at your star batter after your team threw at mine. Pitchers know it is part of their job. It protects Bautista etc. What I am saying is, unfortunately, what will increase the chances of Hall playing 82 games is: when your player hits Hall in the head, one of my players hits your star in the head, everytime, guaranteed, sure thing, count on it. Then the other teams coach, manager and players become your enforcers and ensure no one hits Hall in the head, because they know the brushback pitch will be coming.

  111. Bag of Pucks says:

    Woodguy: You assume that Smac on the bench stops that stuff.

    It doesn’t.

    Remeber in Hall’s rookie year he was been pounded by Dorsett all night, finally got upset, got in a fight and ended his season with an anke injury?

    Smac was in the line up that night.

    Goons don’t seem to stop much.

    A sweeping generalization based on quantitative analysis from a single game. Small sample size much?

    If we’re going to discuss this on reasonable terms, I think it’s fair to conclude that just because a goon didn’t deter a single player being roughed up in a single game, doesn’t mean that there isn’t numerous games where the goon does deter this behavior. Unfortunately, proving a deterrent is very difficult particularly when the most desired outcome and thus pertinent data is a reduction in the amount of major penalties per game. Obviously, these superheavyweights are going to create as many if not more of these type of penalties amongst themselves than they prevent, so we’re left with anecdotal and qualitative evidence as our primary evidence: the strongest of which is from the players themselves who say these superheavyweights DO have an impact and deter the other team taking liberties. On that front, you’ll have to forgive me if I tend to side with actual NHL players over Internet pundits, many of whom may never have played competitive hockey in their lives.

    For the record, I do agree with those that feel functional toughness throughout the lineup is far more impactful towards deterring these Kassian type incidents, but unfortunately for the Oilers, they are so behind the curve on this with their current team composition they are left with little choice but to chase after the Eagers, Browns and Smacs of this world in a largely vain attempt to address the obvious deficiencies in their lineup.

    By acquiring players like Eberle, RNH, Schultz Jr, Gagner and Hemsky, the Oilers essentially committed to a philosophy that skill trumps size/grit/toughness, etc. It’s a philosophy that works wonderfully when the other team is inclined to play the same way or you have a referee that calls it by the book. It’s also a philosophy that is revealed as fundamentally flawed when the other team decides to physically dictate the play and/or the ref swallows his whistle. Unfortunately for the Oil, this flaw is most pointedly revealed in the playoffs which is why we’re likely to see a quick exit should this team finally squeak into the dance.

    Finally (and apologies if this point is not pertinent to you WG), I’m always mystified by alleged ‘NHL hockey fans’ that want fighting removed from the game entirely. To me, there seems some inherent hubris in calling for systemic changes to a sport that far pre-dates your involvement as a fan. If for some exceedingly unlikely reason I decided to become a NASCAR fan tomorrow, I don’t see how that gives me the right to immediately start demanding rule changes that would eliminate any potential for car crashes. Fighting has always been a part of NHL hockey. If people don’t like it, then there other hockey leagues to watch or other sports. What gives the ‘anti-fighting’ lobbyists the right to demand a change to something that is a) enjoyed by the majority of the paying customers and b) has always been a part of this sport?

    Taking fighting out the sport would be a reactionary move to please an pseudo-elitist niche, akin to Fox placing the blue glow around the puck. And now that we have PVRs, if you don’t like this part of the game, fast forward through it. But until the players themselves want it removed, those complaining about it are just that, ‘complainers’ and not much else IMO.

  112. FastOil says:

    Woodguy,

    “3 SCORING LINES!!

    I SWEAR TO GOD HE SAID THAT!!”

    He’s just trying to make up for his goofy boss

  113. godot10 says:

    Woodguy:

    As ,much as I like Smytty, he’ll hit a wall around game 30.

    By that time 89 and 93 should be back and if there isn’t another major injury, he probably will slide down.

    The Oilers only need Smyth for 30 games. Smyth has to last long enough to survive the Gagner and Nugent-Hopkins injuries, and then the Oilers can rest him till the playoffs, and then they need him for 20 more.

    Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Hemsky
    Perron, Gordon, Eberle
    Jonesuu, Gagner, Yakupov

  114. delooper says:

    Bulging Twine:
    I think an enforcer is a pitcher who throws the brushback pitch at your star batter after your team threw at mine.Pitchers know it is part of their job.It protects Bautista etc.What I am saying is, unfortunately, what will increase the chances of Hall playing 82 games is:when your player hits Hall in the head, one of my players hits your star in the head, everytime, guaranteed, sure thing, count on it.Then the other teams coach, manager and players become your enforcers and ensure no one hits Hall in the head, because they know the brushback pitch will be coming.

    It’s not that simple. Because sometimes people like Taylor Hall are going to be hit in the head by accident. And if the Oilers go and brain an opposition star player because Hall had an accident, things are going to escalate. Moreover, if the opposition team has the same philosophy you propose, one of their star players is going to be hit in the head by accident. So the opposite team is going to go out and deliberately injure Hall because of it.

    What you’re proposing just can’t work.

    Here’s a thought experiment. Name a team that does not have troubles with its skill players getting injured. Name one team that has solved this problem.

  115. Woodguy says:

    delooper: Maybe not.It doesn’t look like anyone is going to ask him to play centre this year. Eakins seems to know Smyth needs some sheltering, playing him with fast fully-tooled players. Eakins wants to give him the best chance for success.

    Playing 20 minutes a night with Hall and Hemsky isn’t being sheltered though.

    That’s my point.

  116. delooper says:

    Woodguy: Playing 20 minutes a night with Hall and Hemsky isn’t being sheltered though.

    That’s my point.

    Maybe it’s all the sheltering he needs. He hasn’t been in this kind of situation before, has he? At least, not since returning to the Oilers. My impression was he’s either been expected to do much more with lesser players or he’s been relegated to 3rd or 4th line duties.

  117. Woodguy says:

    godot10: The Oilers only need Smyth for 30 games.Smyth has to last long enough to survive the Gagner and Nugent-Hopkins injuries, and then the Oilers can rest him till the playoffs, and then they need him for 20 more.

    Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Hemsky
    Perron, Gordon, Eberle
    Jonesuu, Gagner, Yakupov

    I like that top 9.

    Many interchangeable parts too.

    Top 2 lines can probably handle the tough sledding and the 3rd sees more shelter.

  118. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks: A sweeping generalization based on quantitative analysis from a single game. Small sample size much?

    If we’re going to discuss this on reasonable terms, I think it’s fair to conclude that just because a goon didn’t deter a single player being roughed up in a single game, doesn’t mean that there isn’tnumerous games where the goon does deter this behavior. Unfortunately, proving a deterrent is very difficult particularly when the most desired outcome and thus pertinent data is a reduction in the amount of major penalties per game. Obviously, these superheavyweights are going to create as many if not more of these type of penalties amongst themselves than they prevent, so we’re left with anecdotal and qualitative evidence as our primary evidence: the strongest of which is from the players themselves who say these superheavyweights DO have an impact and deter the other team taking liberties. On that front, you’ll have to forgive me if I tend to side with actual NHL players over Internet pundits, many of whom may never have played competitive hockey in their lives.

    For the record, I do agree with those that feel functional toughness throughout the lineup is far more impactful towards deterring these Kassian type incidents, but unfortunately for the Oilers, they are so behind the curve on this with their current team composition they are left with little choice but to chase after the Eagers, Browns and Smacs of this world in a largely vain attempt to address the obvious deficiencies in their lineup.

    By acquiring players like Eberle, RNH, Schultz Jr, Gagner and Hemsky, the Oilers essentially committed to a philosophy that skill trumps size/grit/toughness, etc. It’s a philosophy that works wonderfully when the other team is inclined to play the same way or you have a referee that calls it by the book. It’s also a philosophy that is revealed as fundamentally flawed when the other team decides to physically dictate the play and/or the ref swallows his whistle. Unfortunately for the Oil, this flaw is most pointedly revealed in the playoffs which is why we’re likely to see a quick exit should this team finally squeak into the dance.

    Finally (and apologies if this point is not pertinent to you WG), I’m always mystified by alleged ‘NHL hockey fans’ that want fighting removed from the game entirely. To me, there seems some inherent hubris in calling for systemic changes to a sport that far pre-dates your involvement as a fan. If for some exceedingly unlikely reason I decided to become a NASCAR fan tomorrow, I don’t see how that gives me the right to immediately start demanding rule changes that would eliminate any potential for car crashes. Fighting has always been a part of NHL hockey. If people don’t like it, then there other hockey leagues to watch or other sports. What gives the ‘anti-fighting’ lobbyists the right to demand a change to something that is a) enjoyed by the majority of the paying customers and b) has always been a part of this sport?

    Taking fighting out the sport would be a reactionary move to please an pseudo-elitist niche, akin to Fox placing the blue glow around the puck. And now that we have PVRs, if you don’t like this part of the game, fast forward through it. But until the players themselves want it removed, those complaining about it are just that, ‘complainers’ and not much else IMO.

    Sorry, but a great example of hubris is declaring one’s position as correct because things have always been that way and declaring those who disagree with you as a pseudo-elitist niche. What the players want is irrelevant – they are the people being paid to perform. What I want, as a paying customer matters. That you somehow are mad sad that my opinion that fighting is not needed or desirable in hockey is irrelevant to me. I have the right to have my opinion and to lobby for my opinion to be accepted by the rule making body (in this case the NHL and/or jurisdictions they play within).

    You have the right to your opinion and you need to back that up by an argument based upon merit if you want to convince me or anyone else that your opinion is more correct or more valid. It is not enough to base it on the fact that your opinion is currently supported by the current rule making body and that it has been in the past. Two line pass rules, unprotected goalies, and the rover position were also once part of the game, but the game changed because the advocates for change made more persuasive arguments than the advocates for no change.

    In the future, please feel free to make arguments for sustaining fighting in the NHL or if you prefer, feel free to argue for more fighting in the NHL (given that you think it is so important I expect that you would buy into the logic that more fighting would be good for the game). However, please refrain from suggesting that others do not have an equal right to argue for less or no fighting in the NHL.

  119. Ryan says:

    Woodguy,

    Well, the thing about that was I don’t think Brad Marchant actually injured the Sedins. He was more just a nuisance.

  120. Woodguy says:

    delooper: Maybe it’s all the sheltering he needs. He hasn’t been in this kind of situation before, has he?At least, not since returning to the Oilers.My impression was he’s either been expected to do much more with lesser players or he’s been relegated to 3rd or 4th line duties.

    I’m sure playing 4C with slugs wasn’t fun, but he wasn’t playing 20 min a night against the best the other team has to offer.

    I think the later is going to be more taxing on him physically.

    Maybe playing 4C was taxing on his soul though and playing top line would be much more fun.

  121. Bag of Pucks says:

    bookje:

    In the future, please feel free to make arguments for sustaining fighting in the NHL or if you prefer, feel free to argue for more fighting in the NHL (given that you think it is so important I expect that you would buy into the logic that more fighting would be good for the game).However, please refrain from suggesting that others do not have an equal right to argue for less or no fighting in the NHL.

    Fighting= higher attendance & ratings
    Higher attendances & ratings = greater revenues
    Greater revenues = long-term league sustainability

  122. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    There are a lot of professional GM’s that feel differently.

    I do assume a good portion of stuff will stop if Smac is employed…not all, by an means.
    ( The Andrew Alberts of the world slink back into their hole in the ground against some teams )

    You assume the Oilers are not one of the softest teams in the league.

    It is a reputation this organization has earned again, and again….and no, it is not just media.

    Other cities are talking about how bad it was….

    We can either continue to eat sand on the beach or do something about it…

    Not sure I understand where you are coming from:

    a) There is no problem at all
    b) There is a problem – but Smac is not a part of the solution

  123. Bag of Pucks says:

    bookjeWhat the players want is irrelevant – they are the people being paid to perform.What I want, as a paying customer matters.

    Nice.

  124. Woodguy says:

    Ryan:
    Woodguy,

    Well, the thing about that was I don’t think Brad Marchant actually injured the Sedins.He was more just a nuisance.

    Then who is Van beefing up to fight against?

    LAK, SJS, and CHI really don’t have an enforcer. CHI does with Bollig, but he’s not an “instigator” from what I’ve seen, more of a beat cop.

    VAN’s top 2 rivals in the division doesn’t carry heavy weights, and neither does Boston.

    Gillis fighting shadows.

  125. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks: Fighting= higher attendance & ratings
    Higher attendances & ratings = greater revenues
    Greater revenues = long-term league sustainability

    Fighting = Current non-fans of the sport equate hockey to the WWE
    # of Non Fans (potential fans) of NHL in North America > Current Fans of NHL
    Current Revenues<Potential Revenues

  126. Jujhar says:

    Bag of Pucks: Fighting= higher attendance & ratingsHigher attendances & ratings = greater revenuesGreater revenues = long-term league sustainability

    You just used the steroids equation !

  127. denny33 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Your second last paragraph is one of best I have seen here….

    With your permission – I would like to copy that and put it under my name……steal the credit.

    If I am acknowledging the theft is is still plagiarism?

  128. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks: Nice.

    Seriously, you don’t understand that the reasons that the players get to play the game for millions of dollars is because fans of the game pay them to do so? There are many sports with equally athletic individuals who have to have jobs at Home Depot to allow them to compete. What the fans want matters.

  129. Bag of Pucks says:

    @Bookje, you’re missing the greater point which is that if you want to watch hockey free of fighting, there are other leagues and options available to you. You choose to ignore those avenues, instead harboring this mistaken belief that what a vocal minority (i.e. the squeaky wheel) wants constitutes popular public sentiment and thus should dictate policy.

    Again, if you don’t like NHL hockey as is, why did you become a fan in the first place? You’re like someone who marries a short woman and then tells her constantly that you actually prefer women with longer legs.

  130. Ryan says:

    Woodguy: Then who is Van beefing up to fight against?

    LAK, SJS, and CHI really don’t have an enforcer.CHI does with Bollig, but he’s not an “instigator” from what I’ve seen, more of a beat cop.

    VAN’s top 2 rivals in the division doesn’t carry heavy weights, and neither does Boston.

    Gillis fighting shadows.

    From what I recall, Vancouver’s cup run ended largely in part due to a attrition of their d-corps. or in other words, they flat out ran out of dmen.

    Aaron Rome was suspended, but they lost a bunch of dmen to injury during the playoffs.

    I can’t recall specific incidents, but I remember Vancouver was butter soft in terms of the famous grit factor that year.

    I’m not sure whether or not them running out of dmen had anything to do with the team itself being butter soft.

    Maybe DSF can help me out here?

  131. Woodguy says:

    denny33:
    Woodguy,

    There are a lot of professional GM’s that feel differently.

    I do assume a good portion of stuff will stop if Smac is employed…not all, by an means.
    ( The Andrew Alberts of the world slink back into their hole in the ground against some teams )

    You assume the Oilers are not one of the softest teams in the league.

    It is a reputation this organization has earned again, and again….and no, it is not just media.

    Other cities are talking about how bad it was….

    We can either continue to eat sand on the beach or do something about it…

    Not sure I understand where you are coming from:

    a) There is no problem at all
    b) There is a problem – but Smac is not a part of the solution

    The most successful GM’s in the NHL do not employ goons.

    SJS, LAK, BOS, PIT, don’t have a goon, and CHI rarely plays theirs (maybe the OIlers can follow this lead)

    The answer is b.

    Goons solve nothing in my opinion.

    Everyone thinks the OIlers can’t take care of themselves, and maybe that’s been true to some extent over the past few years.

    They need better hockey players and adding size as well will help.

    Adding a goon that no one will fight doesn’t solve that.

    Having players who play a regular shift push back helps.

    Having your better players not afraid to stick a guy in mouth if they are being pounded is even better.

    Hockey is a rough game played by big men and no amount of hand holding from a goon will change that.

  132. Bag of Pucks says:

    bookje: Fighting = Current non-fans of the sport equate hockey to the WWE
    # of Non Fans (potential fans) of NHL in North America > Current Fans of NHL
    Current Revenues<Potential Revenues

    Who cares what non-fans think? Why should they dictate league policy? Do you work for SI?

  133. Truth says:

    The three scoring lines thing scares me. Makes sense if you have the horses, but to split up what you have in an attempt to even out the scoring sounds counterproductive. I’ll take Hall scoring 0.75 GPG on a line with RNH and Eberle on the ice 35% of the time over Hall scoring 0.35 GPG playing with Smyth and Hemsky on the ice 25% of the time.

    Hall is such an exceptional player that he can carry boat anchor Ryan Smyth. Will he still be one of the best players on the ice with Smyth as his linemate? Yes. Would he be better off with a better player as his linemate? Absolutely.

  134. Bag of Pucks says:

    bookje: Seriously, you don’t understand that the reasons that the players get to play the game for millions of dollars is because fans of the game pay them to do so?There are many sports with equally athletic individuals who have to have jobs at Home Depot to allow them to compete.What the fans want matters.

    The employees in this business have some rights as well.

  135. Bag of Pucks says:

    denny33:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Your second last paragraph is one of best I have seen here….

    With your permission– I would like to copy that and put it under my name……steal the credit.

    If I am acknowledging the theft is is still plagiarism?

    Cool

  136. Racki says:

    Woodguy: I love watching a good hockey fight too.

    I don’t consider goons a good hockey fight.

    If 5’9″ Marchand is pissing you off then give it back.

    If you are a Sedin/RNH etc who is under instruction not to retaliate in order to not take you off the ice, there are lots of other guys who can do it.Doesn’t have to be a designated face puncher.

    Also,

    He’ll be suspended for the first Oiler/VAN game, but if SMac grabs Kassian and pounds the shit out of him, that’s fine.

    I just honestly think Kassian will never give him the option.

    Strudwick hit on it today on LT’s show.

    He said he could bet Tortarella will tell his guys “No one engage with MacIntyre.We want him on the ice”

    Struds had some interesting thoughts on goons too.

    Thinks they are pretty useless as well.

    No argument for this. I used to be all about any fight. I now despise the “staged” heavyweight sideshow. Would love to see Mac annihilate kassian, but you are right… It is unlikely it happens cause kassian won’t engage. I’d still like to give him a shot to try. If it doesn’t work within the first couple games vs van city, I guess back on waivers for Mac

  137. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    @Bookje, you’re missing the greater point which is that if you want to watch hockey free of fighting, there are other leagues and options available to you. You choose to ignore those avenues, instead harboring this mistaken belief that what a vocal minority (i.e. the squeaky wheel) wants constitutes popular public sentiment and thus should dictate policy.

    Again, if you don’t like NHL hockey as is, why did you become a fan in the first place? You’re like someone who marries a short woman and then tells here constantly that you actually prefer women with longer legs.

    Which comparable league free of fighting in North America exists? If there were two leagues – one based upon hockey skill and the other based upon fighting, which would be the most popular?

    The NHL has a near monopoly on the professional game. Therefore there are no options.

    Do you like the instigator rule? No, then why are you fan of the NHL, because they have the instigator rule?

    The reason I am a fan of the NHL is because I like hockey. I think when two goalies skate out and fight like Pillsbury dough boys in the middle of the rink, it detracts from the hockey. In fact, it mocks the sport.

    If they take fighting out of the game, are you going to stop watching it?

    Your argument is based upon the notion that the game is perfect as is because it is popular as is, but that is not a reasoned argument because it ignores all other possibilities.

  138. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks: The employees in this business have some rights as well.

    Yes, they have organized as an association and use those collective rights to affect how the game is played. What’s your point? Their right does not take away the right of paying customers to have an opinion and/or to lobby for change.

  139. delooper says:

    bookje:
    If they take fighting out of the game, are you going to stop watching it?

    Hey we live in a pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps culture. So if you don’t like fighting, it’s your duty to form an entirely new professional hockey league and put the NHL out of business with your superior product. Since markets are efficient, your superior product will quickly gobble-up all the consumer interest and you’ll become a billionaire, if you weren’t already (because clearly you’re super smart!).

  140. Racki says:

    Woodguy: The most successful GM’s in the NHL do not employ goons.

    SJS, LAK, BOS, PIT, don’t have a goon, and CHI rarely plays theirs (maybe the OIlers can follow this lead)

    The answer is b.

    Goons solve nothing in my opinion.

    Everyone thinks the OIlers can’t take care of themselves, and maybe that’s been true to some extent over the past few years.

    They need better hockey players and adding size as well will help.

    Adding a goon that no one will fight doesn’t solve that.

    Having players who play a regular shift push back helps.

    Having your better players not afraid to stick a guy in mouth if they are being pounded is even better.

    Hockey is a rough game played by big men and no amount of hand holding from a goon will change that.

    Haven’t thought about the other teams but, Derek Engelland? He’s Pittsburgh’s goon. I am unsure if he can play regular shifts but he’s a tough sob

  141. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    Sean Thornton plays for Boston he had 3 goals last year. 5 the year before…they also happen to be blessed with Zdeno Chara ….

    Kings had Westgarth when they won the cup….As you mentioned earlier, Bolig plays for Chicago.

    Better hockey players are a magnet to clowns like Alberts and Weise…Alberts was targeting Eberle all night. Kassian on Gagner. Weise on Halll.

    Some very important testimonials from so, so many players on the effects of protection from big guys. Indeed, some of the best testimonials have come from past Edmonton Oilers.

    Winnipeg learned the lesson – Colton Orr won’t let you just play hockey.

    He won’t.

  142. denny33 says:

    Racki,

    Do you think Andrew Alberts runs around like a clown if Smac in dressed?

  143. Racki says:

    Racki: Haven’t thought about the other teams but, Derek Engelland? He’s Pittsburgh’s goon. I am unsure if he can play regular shifts but he’s a tough sob

    They also had Godard a few years. One of few guys to cleanly beat MacIntyre.. . And bad

  144. Bag of Pucks says:

    bookje: Which comparable league free of fighting in North America exists?If there were two leagues – one based upon hockey skill and the other based upon fighting, which would be the most popular?

    The NHL has a near monopoly on the professional game.Therefore there are no options.

    Do you like the instigator rule?No, then why are you fan of the NHL, because they have the instigator rule?

    The reason I am a fan of the NHL is because I like hockey.I think when two goalies skate out and fight like Pillsbury dough boys in the middle of the rink, it detracts from the hockey.In fact, it mocks the sport.

    If they take fighting out of the game, are you going to stop watching it?

    Your argument is based upon the notion that the game is perfect as is because it is popular as is, but that is not a reasoned argument because it ignores all other possibilities.

    The NHL holds no such monopoly on professional hockey. What a ludicrous assertion. You could easily watch any number of European leagues or even NCAA hockey domestically which is a great product with minimal fighting.

    You could go elsewhere for your decaf and leave us to enjoy our Go Juice, but no, you’re THAT guy who simply has to force his view of how things should be on everyone else, and eventually you get your way because lobbyists are professional irritants and political correctness is a societal curse.

  145. Racki says:

    denny33:
    Racki,

    Do you think Andrew Alberts runs around like a clown if Smac in dressed?

    I think he does if he keeps wanting to get paid. Any big hitter worth his salt will keep doing what they do and worry about the consequences later. I like Mac in the lineup though for reasons I mentioned earlier. But I think guys still will run around. Mac would really have to start murdering people before others might worry. Needs a rep like semenko for manhandling anyone stupid.

  146. delooper says:

    Can we approach this issue quantitatively? Perhaps get team metrics for “team talent lost”, for example it could be the sum of any standard quality metric like CorsiRel (for injured players) times the time spent injured. So the larger the number, the more that team is missing its star players. A lower number means that team does not miss its star players often (perhaps they don’t have star players!). But that would give you an idea for the teams that suffer. You could then look to see if there’s any trends between teams that suffer the loss of star players vs teams that don’t. I suspect every team deals with this and the Oilers are nothing special. All the discussion about the worth of enforcers is naval-gazing.

  147. BlacqueJacque says:

    Call me contrarian, but I’m really not seeing the appeal with Pitlick. He showed well-ish in a couple of games against AHL competition, and did so in a way that sort of fills a perceived need on the Oilers – a hard checking defensively sound presence (but there are other options – Hamilton, Eager, Joensuu, so it wasn’t a pressing need). He’s also got only one point this season, and it was just an assist at that, which really doesn’t impress me.

  148. delooper says:

    The Clarkson thing strikes me as the action of a player who chose to take the most harmless action possible that would get him suspended for the longest period of time. Maybe he knows he can’t live up to his contract and is trying to hide from public scrutiny.

  149. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks: The NHL holds no such monopoly on professional hockey. What a ludicrous assertion. You could easily watch any number of European leagues or even NCAA hockey domestically which is a great product with minimal fighting.

    You could go elsewhere for your decaf and leave us to enjoy our Go Juice, but no, you’re THAT guy who simply has to force his view of how things should be on everyone else, and eventually you get your way because lobbyists are professional irritants and political correctness is a societal curse.

    How am I forcing my way on everyone else, if hockey is eliminated in the NHL, you can just go watch any number of other leagues. No, you just have to be that guy and argue that your way is the only way and that your opinion is the only permissible opinion.

    You know, the funny thing is, I don’t feel that strongly about fighting in hockey. I just have a problem with people who are so single minded that they can’t see the merits of other arguments or even accept that other people have the right to an opinion.

  150. Ryan says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Call me contrarian, but I’m really not seeing the appeal with Pitlick.He showed well-ish in a couple of games against AHL competition, and did so in a way that sort of fills a perceived need on the Oilers – a hard checking defensively sound presence (but there are other options – Hamilton, Eager, Joensuu, so it wasn’t a pressing need).He’s also got only one point this season, and it was just an assist at that, which really doesn’t impress me.

    The thing with Pitlick is that he won’t actually make the team. I’m pretty sure they’re going to let him feel like he’s so close to making the team that he can taste it–with the ultimate hope that it motivates him and springboards his development.

    Pitlick seems like a decent skater–that and the fact that he’s willing to hit opposing players is a fairly unique skill set in this organization.

  151. Bag of Pucks says:

    Delooper, I think the challenge is you’re trying to show a causal relationship between deterrents/enforcers and a reduction in intent to injure incidents, but unfortunately the NHL doesn’t quantify the infractions in this way.

    Man games lost (star players or otherwise) seems too blunt an instrument for this?

  152. delooper says:

    Ryan: The thing with Pitlick is that he won’t actually make the team.I’m pretty sure they’re going to let him feel like he’s so close to making the team that he can taste it–with the ultimate hope that it motivates him and springboards his development.

    Pitlick seems like a decent skater–that and the fact that he’s willing to hit opposing players is a fairly unique skill set in this organization.

    Yeah, that sounds about right to me too. Sometimes people can’t be motivated to take the next step until they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Give him some hope and maybe he’ll start being the hockey player the Oilers need him to be.

  153. bookje says:

    delooper: Hey we live in a pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps culture.So if you don’t like fighting, it’s your duty to form an entirely new professional hockey league and put the NHL out of business with your superior product. Since markets are efficient, your superior product will quickly gobble-up all the consumer interest and you’ll become a billionaire, if you weren’t already (because clearly you’re super smart!).

    Clearly I am not smart enough to stop debating ideologues in a meaningless debate on the internet, so I should probably leave starting a new league to someone else.

  154. delooper says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Delooper, I think the challenge is you’re trying to show a causal relationship between deterrents/enforcers and a reduction in intent to injure incidents, but unfortunately the NHL doesn’t quantify the infractions in this way.

    Man games lost (star players or otherwise) seems too blunt an instrument for this?

    Technically its “CorsiRel games lost”. So… slightly less blunt.

  155. Cobbler says:

    From TSN “The NHL has fined Buffalo Sabres coach Ron Rolston an undisclosed amount of money for player selection and team conduct during Sunday’s game between the Sabres and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Midway through the third period, Rolston sent enforcer John Scott out for a shift immediately after a contentious fight between the Sabres’ Corey Tropp and Jamie Devane of the Leafs.,,,,,”

    Seems the league is looking at this as a headhunting case and is taking some action…….but maybe he was fined $100. who knows??

  156. delooper says:

    Weird. You can be fined for “player selection”? Why not fine the GM, rather than the coach. Players are on the bench and there’s certain magic combination you can’t put out on the ice at the risk of being fined? Bizarre.

  157. Bag of Pucks says:

    bookje: How am I forcing my way on everyone else, if hockey is eliminated in the NHL, you can just go watch any number of other leagues. No, you just have to be that guy and argue that your way is the only way and that your opinion is the only permissible opinion.

    You know, the funny thing is, I don’t feel that strongly about fighting in hockey.I just have a problem with people who are so single minded that they can’t see the merits of other arguments or even accept that other people have the right to an opinion.

    Nice try, but I’m not arguing this on the basis of ‘my way or the highway’ I’m arguing it on the basis of the wishes of the existing majority outweighing the complaints of the vocal minority.

  158. Racki says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Delooper, I think the challenge is you’re trying to show a causal relationship between deterrents/enforcers and a reduction in intent to injure incidents, but unfortunately the NHL doesn’t quantify the infractions in this way.

    Man games lost (star players or otherwise) seems too blunt an instrument for this?

    Good way to put it. My opinion on Pitlick for what it’s worth.. Hasn’t shown much, most games. But last night there was some obvious desperation to make the team it seemed. He was one of the best players for the Oilers. Has to play desperate like that every game to be effective.

  159. wheatnoil says:

    Is it possible that enforcers function the same role as airplane security?

    I mean, there’s a real potential concern: terrorism and plane-jacking. It has happened in the past and will likely happen again. The consequences of these are dire. So there is a need for the people in charge to do SOMETHING. It has generally been well established that airline security is mostly just security theatre which does little to nothing to prevent actual threats. Yet, despite people finding it a terrible inconvenience and somewhat silly (“You’re confiscating my nail clipper?”), if you were to take away the airline security, a large number of people would cry out about needing to make planes safer. If not right away, then certainly in the aftermath of the next horrible incident. Someone hijacks a plane or a bus… get more security! Even though it does nothing. However, in the absence of available solutions to make it safer, you need to do SOMETHING. In the aftermath of a serious event, everyone feels a little safer knowing the people in charge are taking it seriously and doing something to prevent another event.

  160. BlacqueJacque says:

    Ryan,

    Good assessment. I’ll run with that.

  161. spoiler says:

    godot10: The Oilers only need Smyth for 30 games. Smyth has to last long enough to survive the Gagner and Nugent-Hopkins injuries, and then the Oilers can rest him till the playoffs, and then they need him for 20 more.Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, HemskyPerron, Gordon, EberleJonesuu, Gagner, Yakupov

    Most of them will get a nice long break during the Olys too.

    I’m hoping Smytty spends the two weeks carefully having each and every muscle revitalized by a world champion professional masseuse, while lying in a comfortable bed centered in the midst of a hyperbaric chamber located in a low gravity environment blessed by Zeus, Gordie Howe, and the Dalai Lama.

  162. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks: Nice try, but I’m not arguing this on the basis of ‘my way or the highway’ I’m arguing it on the basis of the wishes of the existing majority outweighing the complaints of the vocal minority.

    Ah, but unfortunately, you are part of the vocal minority. You may be surrounded by an echo chamber of individuals who share your opinion, but the only study I am aware of on the subject indicated that majority of hockey fans were against fighting. it wasn’t even close with two thirds of fans wanting fighting removed from the game and 27% wanting it maintained as part of the game. Only 7% saw it as essential to the game.

    So, given that you are all about majority rules on this issue and are wholeheartedly against vocal minorities pushing their opinion on others, I accept your apology and am glad that we can now move on from this unpleasantness.

  163. Colonel Obvious says:

    Why would anyone be afraid of MacIntyre, let alone a guy like Alberts? He doesn’t have to fight MacIntyre if he doesn’t want to and MacIntyre doesn’t skate well enough to hit anyone.

    So I will say it is an unequivocal certainty that MacIntyre has no effect on what other players do. If you believe otherwise you are simply delusional. There isn’t a single thing you can say other than admit your ignorance and apologize. There is no evidence on your side of any kind. There is no argument on your side of any kind. Your words are the bleating of a goat, a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

  164. spoiler says:

    spoiler: Wow. Secretary. Is somebody getting spanked today?

    Nope, but there is a lot of SMacking goin’ on.

  165. spoiler says:

    bookje: How am I forcing my way on everyone else, if hockey is eliminated in the NHL, you can just go watch any number of other leagues. No, you just have to be that guy and argue that your way is the only way and that your opinion is the only permissible opinion. You know, the funny thing is, I don’t feel that strongly about fighting in hockey. I just have a problem with people who are so single minded that they can’t see the merits of other arguments or even accept that other people have the right to an opinion.

    I was gonna go all 3rd-man-in and help you out, but I see you’ve already got your stick up.

  166. spoiler says:

    spoiler: I was gonna go all 3rd-man-in and help you out, but I see you’ve already got your stick up.

    Those last four words don’t seem quite right.

  167. Racki says:

    spoiler: Those last four words don’t seem quite right.

    Really the whole sentence is one fun euphemism

  168. wheatnoil says:

    Man, Eakins doesn’t have a glowing review of Jones. He didn’t bury him or anything, but he was pretty equivocal. “He’s a high character kid. He’s working at it. He’s in the mix, he’s fighting for a spot, but if there’s one thing he could improve on for me it’s his handling of the puck and making some plays.”

    Seems pretty accurate. High character guy that works hard, but not so great with the hockey skills.

  169. wheatnoil says:

    fifthcartel:
    Not sure if anyone has brought it up but -

    Darrell Romuld (CTV) ‏@CTVDarrell 42m

    The Oklahoma City Barons sign former @WHLHurricanes goaltender Ty Rimmer @Rimms35 to an AHL contract after brief stint with the Oilers.

    Wonder if this means they’ll have Bachman/Rimmer in the AHL and Roy/Bunz in the ECHL?

    Most guys who sign an AHL contract can still be sent down to the same ECHL team that the parent team has an affiliation with. A lot of the guys with AHL contracts last year did that. My suspicion is that they run Bachman/Roy in the AHL and Rimmer/Bunz in the ECHL… but if Rimmer outplays Roy… Nelson has a history of running the guys that will give him a chance to win.

  170. denny33 says:

    Colonel Obvious,

    Then how do you explain concrete skates Alberts pummeling Eberle all the time?

    From David Staples – Journal

    Looking at Gagner’s face, it’s not difficult to see why Oilers GM Craig MacTavish felt it was necessary to take some action. If his team is going to play a team loaded up with agitators and enforcers who have **clear orders to target Edmonton stars,** there’s some logic to trying to fight fire with fire. If the NHL won’t severely punish offenders like Kassian, there’s even more logic to it, the law of the hockey jungle applying here

    It would appear some people are in denial about the targeting of our star players or simply wish that was not the case.

    Still have not heard a credible answer to the problem….

  171. Bag of Pucks says:

    bookje: Ah, but unfortunately, you are part of the vocal minority.You may be surrounded by an echo chamber of individuals who share your opinion, but the only study I am aware of on the subject indicated that majority of hockey fans were against fighting. it wasn’t even close with two thirds of fans wanting fighting removed from the game and 27% wanting it maintained as part of the game.Only 7% saw it as essential to the game.

    So, given that you are all about majority rules on this issue and are wholeheartedly against vocal minorities pushing their opinion on others, I accept your apology and am glad that we can now move on from this unpleasantness.

    And now what the poll actually concluded:

    “Of the respondents who identified themselves as “huge fans” of the game, a majority opposed a ban on fighting. Of those who identified themselves as “not interested” in the sport or actively “dislike hockey,” the majority supported eliminating fighting from the game.”

    http://nesn.com/2012/05/hockey-fighting-poll-adds-little-to-debate-as-nhl-must-listen-to-fans-rather-than-games-detractors/

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/22766-Slim-majority-of-Canadians-believe-NHL-hockey-fights-should-be-banned.html

  172. spoiler says:

    As a brief aside… It’s Ben Johnson Day today. So to speak.

  173. wheatnoil says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    “Of the respondents who identified themselves as “huge fans” of the game, a majority opposed a ban on fighting. Of those who identified themselves as “not interested” in the sport or actively “dislike hockey,” the majority supported eliminating fighting from the game.”

    So the real questions that the NHL has to ask are these: How many of the “huge fans” will stop watching the game if fighting is decreased? How many will stop watching if the fighting is banned? How many non-fans will watch the game if fighting is decreased or banned? Would the revenue provided by the increase in non-fans be greater than the revenue lost by the decrease in “huge fans”? What do “casual fans” think of this and how is their revenue affected? How are television ratings affected and what does that mean for future television & sponsorship deals?

    Honestly, I don’t know the answer the those questions. I can make a few guesses one way or the other, but I can’t give a definite answer as I can build a case in a few different directions. The NHL, as a business, has a tough decision to make.

    I think the case for stronger suspensions is cut and dry though and it is amazing to me that the NHL and the NHLPA haven’t addressed this. Star players being injured & not playing = less revenue. Less revenue = less money to owners AND less money to players (since salary is tied to HRR). The majority of suspensions are given out to a small group of repeat offenders. The repeat offenders make the game less money than the star players they are injuring. Thus, eliminating the repeat offenders or making them change their game leads to more star players playing more games, leads to more $$$ for all! Amazing that the NHL hasn’t taken this route.

  174. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks: And now what the poll actually concluded:

    “Of the respondents who identified themselves as “huge fans” of the game, a majority opposed a ban on fighting. Of those who identified themselves as “not interested” in the sport or actively “dislike hockey,” the majority supported eliminating fighting from the game.”

    http://nesn.com/2012/05/hockey-fighting-poll-adds-little-to-debate-as-nhl-must-listen-to-fans-rather-than-games-detractors/

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/22766-Slim-majority-of-Canadians-believe-NHL-hockey-fights-should-be-banned.html

    You give links to two different polls, neither of which is the most recent poll I referenced. Also, the 2012 poll you site suggests that ‘hockey fans’ are split on the issue, but those who identify themselves as avid fans are in favour of fighting. I wish they asked season ticket holders, but they didn’t.

    The 2013 study has a different conclusion, that the majority of fans are against fighting and it wasn’t close.

    You have now narrowed your argument to ‘avid fans’ – are they now the only ones that count?

    In any case, my point stands, there is disagreement about this, both sides have the right to an opinion. I would suggest the polls show a real trend towards the removal of fighting in the game as those opposed to it are growing (with the support of many former players) while those in favor of it are shrinking. I hope you can still enjoy the game in the future when all they do is play hockey. I actually think its the best part of the sport.

  175. spoiler says:

    spoiler: As a brief aside… It’s Ben Johnson Day today. So to speak.

    And by brief, I mean 9.79 seconds. Not, you know, underwear.

  176. bookje says:

    wheatnoil,

    Fans like tough hockey and seeing teeth on the ice, that’s why they go to the games. It’s true because I said so and everyone agree with me and its always been that way, so your argument is wrong. Why can’t you leave the game alone you politically correct fascist.

    Edit: Great argument actually – get the goons out of the game and revenues will increase.

  177. tubes says:

    The comments section is mind numbing today.

    Colonel Obvious: are you not yet banned? You bring nothing to almost every discussion but a one-sided, birds eye view of reality. Have you read any books, articles or even listened to interviews of hockey players? Do some research. Fourth line players on the opposition will be thinking a lot about it when they see him in the lineup. MacGrattan, Sestito and the four or five other players in the league who would actually fight him won’t be sleeping that easy the night before. Players on their team will see that and who knows, it may have an effect.

    Don’t get me wrong – I’m not a huge proponent of the staged goon fights and think it’s a bit insane when someone gets KO’d but it is a part of hockey. The players want it in the game and regardless of what “1,013 Canadian adults who are Angus Reid Forum panelists and an additional smaller sample of 502 self-described hockey fans” think about fighting, you could do a survey in a true hockey market that would say the exact opposite.

  178. bookje says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Furthermore THE VERY STUDY YOU REFERENCE indicates that 48% of Huge Fans support eliminating fighting in NHL hockey even though 70% considered fighing as an acceptable part of hockey. I know this makes no sense, but these are the results of the study. Read it here (the whole study, not just the biased newspaper article.)

    http://www.environicsinstitute.org/uploads/institute-projects/environics-institute-hockey-canada-2012-survey.pdf

    Edit – so, at best you are part of the slimmest majority and that is only if you exclude everyone but HUGE fans.

  179. bookje says:

    tubes,

    Yes, I am sure the existing studies done by professional survey firms just got it all wrong. If they only called you and your friends, then they would really understand what the majority think.

  180. Bulging Twine says:

    denny33:
    Colonel Obvious,

    Then how do you explain concrete skates Alberts pummeling Eberle all the time?

    From David Staples – Journal

    Looking at Gagner’s face, it’s not difficult to see why Oilers GM Craig MacTavish felt it was necessary to take some action. If his team is going to play a team loaded up with agitators and enforcers who have **clear orders to target Edmonton stars,** there’s some logic to trying to fight fire with fire. If the NHL won’t severely punish offenders like Kassian, there’s even more logic to it, the law of the hockey jungle applying here

    It would appear some people are in denial about the targeting of our star players or simply wish that was not the case.

    Still have not heard a credible answer to the problem….

    What do you think of the “brushback” pitch?
    Been working in baseball for 100 years.

  181. Bulging Twine says:

    And by that I mean that they should pick up the puck and throw it at the perpetrator.

  182. Bulging Twine says:

    You know, sign Pedro Martinez. He never has to go on the ice. Just sit him on the bench with a pail of pucks.

  183. commonfan14 says:

    Woodguy: Didn’t stop Torres from playing the way he plays.

    In fairness, Raffi is a nut.

  184. tubes says:

    bookje,

    I read that more like 19% of huge fans strongly support getting rid of fighting and 26% strongly oppose it. Regardless, it was only 1000 Canadians and only 240 being huge fans. Take 1000 huge hockey fans and I’d bet a beer that the number leans towards opposing banning fighting.

    ANYWAYS, the only reason I even logged on was to say that I hope like hell they give Smytty the “C” this year. Send him out with class and give it to Hall next year.

  185. supernova says:

    bookje:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Furthermore THE VERY STUDY YOU REFERENCE indicates that 48% of Huge Fans support eliminating fighting in NHL hockey even though 70% considered fighing as an acceptable part of hockey.I know this makes no sense, but these are the results of the study.Read it here (the whole study, not just the biased newspaper article.)

    http://www.environicsinstitute.org/uploads/institute-projects/environics-institute-hockey-canada-2012-survey.pdf

    Edit – so, at best you are part of the slimmest majority and that is only if you exclude everyone but HUGE fans.

    bookje,

    here is a link for you.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misuse_of_statistics

    I am using this to support what you are saying but to also say;

    what is the ultimate goal of the survey?

    to get a understanding of how people feel obviously,

    but shouldn’t we be interested in people who are non hockey fans and the information that makes them willing to become hockey fans?

    Sometimes “purists” are the worst part of sports and see everything in a vacuum they have lost all context for what is an actual attraction to the thing they love and it has become more of a addiction.

    some leagues other than the NHL have continued to grow and change in ways their “purists” don’t like at the onset, but then they realize that all of a sudden there are more fans celebrating their “game”. They also learn to enjoy it in a new manner.

  186. Lucinius says:

    Interesting that Kessel got three games. Problem being that only means he misses the rest of pre-season and is good to go for the start of the regular season.

    Which is pretty fucking ridiculous considering there was clear intent to injure on the last slash, and the spear was clearly worth a game or two on its own.

    For all you people arguing about fighting and goons;

    Doesn’t matter. Either one.

    First; the players support keeping fighting in the game to such a degree it is unlikely to ever be removed (especially considering for how ever many people argue they want to see fighting removed, or don’t care if it is.. the reaction a good tilt gets from the fans shows most support it in the moment of the fight and its only when there’s no adrenaline going from watching a good fight that they consider else-wise, imo).

    Secondly; goons. They will stick around because players themselves want them on their team and both the NHLPA and the GMs believe they not only serve a purpose (however misguided they are in that belief) but that the down-side of a goon is small enough to bear.

    Also, most of the teams trotted out as not carrying goons? Most of them, at one time or another in the last few years, did carry a goon, or at least a player capable of serving that role.

  187. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Some reality:

    VAN-BOS SCF

    Van averaged 4.7 PP chances a game (33 total) the whistles were hardly put away.
    Van converted a woeful 6% of their chances (2 goals)

    The scoring drying up and a couple of blown games are what cost Van the cup, not tough guy Marchand.

  188. bendelson says:

    stevezie:
    jake70,

    See you at the Ottawa game. I’ll be the guy in the Kurri jersey.

    And the requisite Team Zissou tuque of course…

    Bulging Twine,

    The ‘brushback’ pitch equates to a player ‘wasting one’ up and around the goalie’s head no?

  189. commonfan14 says:

    As for the enforcer stuff, what I really think the Oilers should do is sign Boogaard.

    Unfortunately, he’s dead, and playing the enforcer role was likely a key factor in his early demise.

    Argue against people making that link all you want, but even pro wrestling has moved away from the crazy concussion-inducing chair shots and extreme punishment that had their guys hooked on pain pills and dying in their sleep in their 40s.

    The NFL moves closer and closer to flag football every year.

    This is like working at a school in the 60s and having long involved debates about how to go about using the strap on kids when they get out of line. Eventually, it’s just not going to be part of the discussion anymore.

  190. spoiler says:

    tubes: ANYWAYS, the only reason I even logged on was to say that I hope like hell they give Smytty the “C” this year. Send him out with class and give it to Hall next year.

    This is the easiest way to shuffle-step for a year. I like it.

  191. OilFire says:

    Bag of Pucks: The NHL holds no such monopoly on professional hockey. What a ludicrous assertion. You could easily watch any number of European leagues or even NCAA hockey domestically which is a great product with minimal fighting.

    You could go elsewhere for your decaf and leave us to enjoy our Go Juice, but no, you’re THAT guy who simply has to force his view of how things should be on everyone else, and eventually you get your way because lobbyists are professional irritants and political correctness is a societal curse.

    Wow, you really are sitting on that “fans can either like everything or nothing” argument hey? That’s sort of a silly little starting point to be the only leg holding up your table. It’s not like he’s suggesting they add a table tennis component, it’s more like shortening the net by 4 inches. I guess every fan that likes that and GM that voted for the change should go and join another league?

  192. OilFire says:

    spoiler: Those last four words don’t seem quite right.

    Or do they….

  193. Lowetide says:

    Gagner out 2 months

  194. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: Gagner out 2 months

    You mean the prognosis is two months, I’m thinking?

    Damn, he has been remarkeably healthy to this point in his career.

    This probably also means the end of Gagner stepping in for the odd lightweight bout I’m guessing too.

  195. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Gagner out 2 months

    Thoresen, anyone?

  196. Bulging Twine says:

    Lowetide:
    Gagner out 2 months

    How many games is that?

  197. spoiler says:

    spoiler: You mean the prognosis is two months, I’m thinking?Damn, he has been remarkeably healthy to this point in his career. This probably also means the end of Gagner stepping in for the odd lightweight bout I’m guessing too.

    Actually, check that, I was thinking of Cogliano for some bloody reason… Probably the bastardized Macbeth quote above.

  198. Gerta Rauss says:

    Bulging Twine: How many games is that?

    27…I just counted.

    They have to make a move now for a Center, they just have to.

Newer Comments »

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca