JUJHAR AND THE CANUCKS (ROOKIES G3)

If you’re looking for positives from the current rookie tournament in Penticton, I’d suggest concentrating on recently drafted forwards. They’re not dominating anything, but the group isn’t getting their heads pounded in either. Marco Roy is near the tournament lead in shots, and I’ve counted four scoring chances in the two games (two of them against that tough Calgary line that ran over Edmonton in G1).

Jujhar Khaira has been in evidence offensively and he’s also done some impressive things away from the puck (mostly physical in nature). He gets exposed in his own end (this is what rookie tournaments are for) at the center position but there’s a ton to like about the big man who is the latest pro player in the organization. I also like Greg Chase so far the Penticton leg of training, in fact he would get my nod currently as the Oilers best player in the tournament.

The defense? Marincin and Gernat have looked fine by eye, Klefbom is not having a good tournament based on expectations. It’ll be interesting to see which of the blue sit today–there are a few worthy candidates.

Goaltending? We haven’t seen anything yet, and the final game is this afternoon.

I have been struck by “two ships that pass in the night” quotes from this weekend, and was going to save it for tomorrow’s post (and may re-visit) because I believe it shows where the Oilers are headed in the future.

  • Todd Nelson: “We’re going to change our tactics a bit and go with two guys tonight on the forecheck. I think that everybody plays a one-man pressure system usually and so it was easier for the guys to maybe play it the first game. Since we didn’t have practice time I didn’t want to do two-man pressure. We’re going to do that tonight and hopefully it pays off. We’re going to play very aggressive tonight. We want to make sure their defencemen don’t have a lot of time and space to move the puck and we’re going to be right in their face. It’ll be a more aggressive game tonight.”

Nelson doesn’t have the horses to do that in this tournament, I think we can all agree on that one; however, that quote combined with what Eakins said in his media conference gives us some insight into the style of play we may see this fall from the Oilers:

  • Eakins: “We will be very, very aggressive in our defensive zone, we will have a definite plan in the neutral zone when we don’t have the puck, we’ll have a definite plan when we don’t have the puck in the offensive zone; but the biggest thing I want this group to do is have the puck. We are not going to give it up and if we do we’re going to have a quick and immediate plan to have it back.”

This is such a wonderful quote I may have it framed, but we need to be mindful of the limitations of a coach. It also fits well with Tyler Dellow’s recent Big Data information (without the specifics) and perhaps the quote and Dellow’s work at mc79 hockey give us some clues about the future. We’ll talk to Tyler tomorrow on the LDWLT about it.

Back to the now. When Todd Nelson applies this to the group he has in Penticton, how many forwards are going to be able to do that? Khaira, Chase and Roy are doing well in this tournament, and I think this bodes well at the NHL level for a few Oilers whose skill allows the play “not die on their sticks.” The question for Eakins will be “how many personnel match the gameplan template?” and I think the answer is we’re still a little shy of a 21.

  • Eakins: “You will either compete hard or you will not play.”

I’m absolutely certain we all have our list of culprits for this list, but my guess is our lists don’t match each other’s. It’ll be fascinating to see who the coach punishes for cheating offensively–I don’t think “you will compete hard or you will not play” means what some think it means. For instance, I don’t think this is a message that is being sent to Taylor Hall–there are some who do. We’ll see.

THE LINEUP FOR THIS AFTERNOON (C-L-R)

  • L1:Khaira-Platzer-Miller
  • L2: Roy-Fyten-Chase
  • L3: Ewanyk-Kessy-Bilcke
  • L4: Schaber-Baddock-Abney
  • Pairing 1: Nurse-Davidson
  • Pairing 2: Gernat-Betker
  • Pairing 3: Leach-Musil
  • Goal: Palazzese with Rimmer as backup

Up front, this is the most encouraging group. The top 2lines have some skill–I still don’t know that the Oilers will score but at least they’re bunching together their best forwards–but the 3 and 4 line will be chasing the puck all day. THAT will add pressure to a group of defensemen that offers neither Klefbom or Marincin this afternoon, and more goaltending unknowns to back it up.

It’s been a humbling weekend for this kids. I hope they don’t have to bus back to Edmonton.

 

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119 Responses to "JUJHAR AND THE CANUCKS (ROOKIES G3)"

  1. hunter1909 says:

    Re Brian Burke joining the Flames:

    Burke’s going to get so many killers that like it or not, Oilers will end up obliging and as a result the good guys will be able to handle anything from the East come finals; ie Boston.

  2. hunter1909 says:

    Jar Jar and Nurse are the only players I know anything about.

    Since I’m on record predicting a huge game for Nurse(he’s simply too good not to rise to this small occasion), who knows? Both these guys might dominate the game and make me look like I know what I’m talking about.

  3. Lowetide says:

    Hunter: it’s the 80s! :-)

  4. hunter1909 says:

    We’ve always got the 80′s.

    And 1990.

  5. Radman says:

    Eakin’s quote seems to dovetail with the puck moving D bias of the team this off season. Expect the plan is to create a quicker more effective transition game, to play to the strengths of the speed and talent on the wings. Makes sense (if things go according to plan).

    Trying hard not to fall in love too fast, but I am looking forward to some honesty and clearly stated direction from coach and management, delivered without alot of BS. Stopped listening to interviews from former GM, as they were like verbal tofu.

    Looking at the make up of the big team, I see at the forwards on the rookie roster as auditions for the future bottom six, maybe with a gem like Kharia, Roy, or Chase finding a role higher up. Different expectations this go around. Just happy to have some real hockey to read/talk about again fellas !

  6. hunter1909 says:

    Radman: Stopped listening to interviews from former GM, as they were like verbal tofu.

    Tambellini stole three first overall picks in a row!!

  7. Lowetide says:

    Radman: Great line. Trying hard not to fall in love too fast. Heh. That’s the theme of the entire fall imo. If any fanbase had a right to hold back on a new coach, it’s this one. However, Eakins is just so fucking spot on, and a no nonsense person. I frankly don’t know how you’d survive in this organization half assing if he backs up what he’s saying.

    I mean, does anyone really wonder if he’d bench a player? I don’t. I’m a little afraid he might end up following me in traffic when I make a bad turn!

  8. hunter1909 says:

    TBH, the idea of:

    Perron Gagner Eberle

    This could be rated as comparible to Oiler’s 2003 first line of Smyth, and two others.

    Add:

    Hall RNH Yakupov

    It’s like adding three fat tenors together on some Italian mountain.

  9. Lloyd B. says:

    Another quote I found interesting is that he uses this tournament to gauge how the players perform relative to their peers. It sounds like there are 3 this year. Likely a reasonable number in a given year. If you are able to turn 3 players a year into serviceable NHL players I suspect, but have absolutely no data to support the thought, that a team would be doing very well. Not graduate three every year directly to the NHL but 3 players from this group over the course of their development, which is measured in years.

  10. jp says:

    I seem to have missed it – where is Moroz? I guess he’s injured?

    Would be nice if this team put up more of a fight today. Hard for them to do worse I suppose, but with an enforcer-only type on both the 3 and 4 lines, and without their best 2 defensemen (at least on paper), I’m not expecting anything different than the first 2 games. I guess they could surprise though.

  11. Lowetide says:

    Moroz is at practice but not playing, thjey say he’ll be ready for main camp but I wonder.

  12. jp says:

    Lowetide:
    Moroz is at practice but not playing, thjey say he’ll be ready for main camp but I wonder.

    Thanks, I had completely forgotten about his knee issue. And you’re right, that’s probably going to linger.

  13. sliderule says:

    The oiler site has a good interview with Nelson.

    He praised Roy and Platzer.

    He really liked Roy at center.He said it allowed him to use his speed and puck handling
    .
    I have really been impressed with Roy.He hasn’t been able to finish but he has been driving the play.

  14. Lowetide says:

    sliderule:
    The oiler site has a good interview with Nelson.

    He praised Roy and Platzer.

    He really liked Roy at center.He said it allowed him to use his speed and puck handling
    .
    I have really been impressed with Roy.He hasn’t been able to finish but he has been driving the play.

    Agreed. I’m pretty pumped about Roy, he seems to be a player math and scouting agree on.

  15. dessert1111 says:

    Any word on how Platzer is going to be used this year on the perpetually stacked London Knights? Any skill minutes/PP time available for him? Looked like he might have a lethal shot based on his snipe last night, but I don’t remember hearing about him having a good shot before.

  16. Lowetide says:

    Khaira’s a player. No doubt

  17. Lowetide says:

    Dessert: None. Something to follow though.

  18. RexLibris says:

    This already looks like it’ll be a fierce game. I can’t remember the last time a roster of Oiler players showed this much fight. Wait, yes I can. It was the night Mike Bishai fought from the opposition bench in Atlanta.

  19. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide,

    Agreed.

    He looks like his bluesky ceiling might be in the Glencross range, if we keep our fingers crossed.

  20. RexLibris says:

    Khaira started that breakout with a simple pass to the open man on the wall, next thing you know he’s cycling down low and throws a puck to the point for a shot.

    It’s been so long since I’ve seen good hockey.

  21. Lowetide says:

    Much stronger period from Nurse imo. Mobile kid. Huge.

  22. RexLibris says:

    MacCartney has another review of yesterday’s game against the Jets. Good read, and I echo his general sentiment that the Oilers game has evolved over the course of this tournament. It looks even more so this afternoon.

  23. RexLibris says:

    RNH ready for Nov 1st now. I guess MacKenzie was right.

  24. Lowetide says:

    RexLibris:
    RNH ready for Nov 1st now. I guess MacKenzie was right.

    I still don’t buy that. They’re being very careful but if he is up to speed on 8 Oct and checks through all of the testing, why would you wait? Is this a surgery that has no recovery history?

  25. RexLibris says:

    You mean…you don’t believe what the Oilers organization is telling you about a player’s injury status? Gee, that’s awfully cynical of you, LT.

    ;)

  26. Lowetide says:

    RexLibris:
    You mean…you don’t believe what the Oilers organization is telling you about a player’s injury status? Gee, that’s awfully cynical of you, LT.

    ;)

    lol. I’ve got a keen eye! :-)

  27. RexLibris says:

    Pet Peeve #141 – when crashing the net, DO NOT SKATE PAST THE NET! Stop at the crease and look for a rebound.

  28. B S says:

    Holy shit, we got the lead!

  29. Lowetide says:

    Roy gets a goal. Kind of a fluke but he’d earned it. Roy (Chase, Fyten)..

  30. RexLibris says:

    Principe’s going to do everything in his power to get Palazzeze (sp?) a contract, isn’t he? :)

  31. B S says:

    About time. I was starting to get frustrated with his inability to finish chances despite doing the right things. It may be a fluke, but he was going to the net at the same time as a teammate was shooting, novel for this team but looks like it works.

  32. RexLibris says:

    B S,

    Are we allowed to do that?

  33. RexLibris says:

    B S,

    He’s not playing with enough skilled linemates, in my opinion. And they haven’t had enough time to develop timing and chemistry.

  34. Lowetide says:

    Platzer (Leach)

  35. RexLibris says:

    Thank God we drafted Chase. I’m really loving this kid.

  36. Lowetide says:

    Chase is going to be a favorite, no doubt in my miind.

  37. striatic says:

    any reason why Horvat and Shinkaruk are sitting this one out?

    if a reason was given on the webcast, i’ve missed it.

    hard to celebrate any success against the Canucks when those two aren’t playing.

  38. Lowetide says:

    striatic:
    any reason why Horvat and Shinkaruk are sitting this one out?

    if a reason was given on the webcast, i’ve missed it.

    hard to celebrate any success against the Canucks when those two aren’t playing.

    I think all the teams are rotating players through.

  39. B S says:

    RexLibris,

    I somewhat disagree (JJ Khaira isn’t RNH of course, but…) as he had several quality chances the last few games and missed them horribly. It almost feels like watching Hemsky, lots of skill, but won’t put the puck in the net.

  40. striatic says:

    Lowetide,

    both Horvat and Shinkaruk out at the same time is a major drop in offense for the Canucks.

  41. striatic says:

    i’m not entirely sure, but i think Gernat misplayed that. isn’t he supposed to take the guy in the high slot and leave the shooter to the goalie?

  42. Lowetide says:

    Ewanyk is having a poor shift there.

  43. RexLibris says:

    Davidson is having a nice game, imo.

  44. Jesse says:

    LT,

    I realize it’s only 3 games, but from what you’ve seen from Khaira, do you think that he might be ready to perhaps start in Bakersfield rather than Everett? He’s held his own against some significantly older players. I don’t want him rushed but I I think he’s shown pretty well.

  45. RexLibris says:

    B S,

    Funny, I was thinking Roy reminded me of Hemsky with his speed, willingness to go into traffic, and being an artist skating with thugs.

  46. Lowetide says:

    striatic:
    Lowetide,

    both Horvat and Shinkaruk out at the same time is a major drop in offense for the Canucks.

    I’m not arguing, just trying to answer your original question.

  47. wheatnoil says:

    Just started watching a few minutes ago. Platzer has really stood out for me (other than the usual suspects in this tournament). Has Platzer been strong all game or just the last few minutes?

  48. Lowetide says:

    Jesse:
    LT,

    I realize it’s only 3 games, but from what you’ve seen from Khaira, do you think that he might be ready to perhaps start in Bakersfield rather than Everett? He’s held his own against some significantly older players. I don’t want him rushed but I I think he’s shown pretty well.

    For me, I’d like to see him in the WHL this season. We’ll see how it goes.

  49. dangilitis says:

    RexLibris,

    I get the joke, but in all seriousness, stopping 15 consecutive shots in this tournament for an Oiler goalie already puts him in the top of the pack.

    Bunz (1 year older)
    2008-09 WHL GP 22 0.886
    2009-10 WHL GP 57 0.898
    2010-11 WHL GP 56 0.919
    2011-12 WHL GP 61 0.921
    I am excluding his 20-21 y/o season (to his benefit in this comparison)
    (.9139, SA 5216 from 2009-12)

    Palazzese age-comparables
    2009-10 OJHL GP 29 0.905 / OHL GP 1 .819
    2010-11 OHL GP 34 0.890
    2011-12 OHL GP 36 0.927
    2012-13 OHL GP 43 0.922
    (.9144, SA 3915 from 2010-13)

    Only difference I see in Bunz’s favor is earlier start in the W and, of course, the 20 more games per season. SA weren’t that different in the 17-20 age range.

  50. Lowetide says:

    wheatnoil:
    Just started watching a few minutes ago. Platzer has really stood out for me (other than the usual suspects in this tournament). Has Platzer been strong all game or just the last few minutes?

    He’s been very good in both of his games.

  51. RexLibris says:

    Davidson looks as thought he’s trying to will this team to a win. How could you not cheer for this young man?

  52. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: He’s been very good in both of his games.

    I looked up Platzer’s junior stats earlier. He’s averaged .33 ppg in the CHL. If he eventually took that offense and his current level of competitiveness to the AHL he would probably replace Curtis Hamilton as a prospect. What does that say about Hamilton?

  53. RexLibris says:

    Bombers up on the Riders 24 – 13 in the 4th. The Eskimos could still clinch the 1st overall pick in this year’s draft and keep up the Edmonton tradition!

  54. Lowetide says:

    Roy with 5 shots in today’s game, that 13 in 8 periods of hockey. Some of those have been long range types, but he’s really had an impact imo. Khaira as well (he hit a post in that period), and add in Chase and Platzer there’s some nice things happening with the more recent picks at forward.

  55. wheatnoil says:

    Lowetide: He’s been very good in both of his games.

    I didn’t notice him so much the last game, but then I was only watching that one on and off and even then only saw the first half. MacCartney saw him well last game too based on what I read of the review.

    Plus arrows at forward for the tournament: Platzer, Chase, Roy, Khaira… anyone else? Looks like OKC may get a nice infusion of scoring talent in 2014. Maybe more of Yakimov and/or Slepyshev make the jump.

  56. striatic says:

    Jesse:
    LT,

    I realize it’s only 3 games, but from what you’ve seen from Khaira, do you think that he might be ready to perhaps start in Bakersfield rather than Everett? He’s held his own against some significantly older players. I don’t want him rushed but I I think he’s shown pretty well.

    let Khaira dominate a league before doing anything with him.

    he had a good season for a freshman, but he didn’t dominate.

    moving Khaira to the WHL is fine because he’ll get more TOI than in college, and it really isn’t a ‘promotion’ .. but there is no good reason to prematurely move him anywhere else until he proves he can dominate at a lower level.

  57. striatic says:

    wheatnoil: Plus arrows at forward for the tournament: Platzer, Chase, Roy, Khaira… anyone else?

    i would only count Platzer and Chase as up arrows.

    Roy and Khaira have met expectations, no more.

  58. wheatnoil says:

    At least in this short tournament, Khaira appears more ‘AHL-ready’ than either Ewanyk or Kessy. He stands out more than Miller too, though Miller might be doing smaller / subtler things well in the defensive end that I’m missing with my eye.

  59. wheatnoil says:

    striatic: i would only count Platzer and Chase as up arrows.

    Roy and Khaira have met expectations, no more.

    I guess it depends on what your expectations for them were. By “up” arrow, I meant that they performed well in this tournament against competition that is above their level of competition last year.

  60. wheatnoil says:

    Nice back-check by Roy. He was covering for one of the defensemen… not sure who.

  61. hunter1909 says:

    Nurse looked very good the last shift. Rushes the puck like a old timey NFL fullback.

  62. Lowetide says:

    Andrew Miller is the Bermuda triangle.

  63. Nightman_ says:

    Lowetide:
    Andrew Miller is the Bermuda triangle.

    It’s spelled “Belanger”.

    Hypothetical for you guys: would you rather see Klefbom play as a bottom pairing guy in the NHL or top in the AHL for a year or so? What’s better experience? Similar to Paajarvi with Renney in his second season.

  64. B S says:

    RexLibris:
    B S,

    Funny, I was thinking Roy reminded me of Hemsky with his speed, willingness to go into traffic, and being an artist skating with thugs.

    Definitely. he’s been the most dynamic Oiler forward so far, nothing says Hemsky more than his end-to-end rush around 4 players only to whif on the backhand, or dump into the corner.

    Seriously though, Roy has been a rare bright spot in this tournament (the opposite of Miller).

    striatic,

    I disagree, Khaira’s job is to be physical (and score and forecheck and cycle the puck). If he plays in the WHL, how much of his offense will be due to simply being able to push kids around? I’d rather see him learn to tough it out against men and figure out how to play when he can’t just push guys off the puck. Can he play in the ECHL?

  65. hunter1909 says:

    I wonder who our new scapegoat will be, with Horcoff traded to the Stars.

  66. hunter1909 says:

    I like hockey players with names like Travis.

  67. hunter1909 says:

    They must have traded Taylor Hall to the Canucks, to make it fair.

  68. Nightman_ says:

    I disagree, Khaira’s job is to be physical (and score and forecheck and cycle the puck). If he plays in the WHL, how much of his offense will be due to simply being able to push kids around? I’d rather see him learn to tough it out against men and figure out how to play when he can’t just push guys off the puck. Can he play in the ECHL?

    Well, he’d be getting better minutes playing in the WHL, as long as the expectations are raised relative to that. How many of the kids in this tournament will be playing in the WHL this year? It will probably be fine competition-wise

  69. hunter1909 says:

    87 looks like either Ryan Whitney, or a Sedin twin.

    Quite a few Canucks fans today. I hope they don’t start another riot.

  70. hunter1909 says:

    This sucks worse than the AHL.

  71. hunter1909 says:

    Was that Kevin Lowe wearing the lavender shirt?

  72. hunter1909 says:

    Canucks and Oilers need better prospects. Especially the Oilers.

  73. striatic says:

    wheatnoil

    by that standard, i think Khaira gets an up arrow but not Roy.

    Roy was excellent against his competition last year. continuing to at least perform well against somewhat tougher competition should be expected.

    when you compare Roy with Petan, both second round draft picks that Edmonton could have selected, Petan has has a much better tournament. Petan has had better teammates, no question, but he was generating his offense in combination with former 7th rounder Mitchell Theoret so i think we need to give him some credit.

  74. striatic says:

    B S: I disagree, Khaira’s job is to be physical (and score and forecheck and cycle the puck). If he plays in the WHL, how much of his offense will be due to simply being able to push kids around? I’d rather see him learn to tough it out against men and figure out how to play when he can’t just push guys off the puck. Can he play in the ECHL?

    if he’s able to generate offense by pushing kids around, then let him generate offense by pushing kids around.

    if he is unable to generate offense despite being able to push kids around, well then you’ve discovered something kind of important that you might be able to ignore if he was learning the ropes in the ECHL.

  75. wheatnoil says:

    Interesting that MacT in his press conference felt that perhaps they might be inviting one more person to main camp that they weren’t going to otherwise based on the rookie camp. Wonder who that might be?

  76. hunter1909 says:

    Having been virtually on the wagon all summer:

    Opened a bottle of crazy expensive to my cheapskate self single malt that tastes like a peat bog. It’s like drinking sunshine, lol.

    Nurse looks like a real good prospect.

    Chase looks like fun for the 4th line, Musil I’m running down to the bookies in the morning to put a little bet down on his potentially playing 200 NHL games.

  77. Lowetide says:

    wheatnoil:
    Interesting that MacT in his press conference felt that perhaps they might be inviting one more person to main camp that they weren’t going to otherwise based on the rookie camp. Wonder who that might be?

    Hopefully a center. I can’t imagine they feel Andrew Miller is anywhere close to helping. I know this is a three game look, but holy hell he’s not close to being a guy you’re going to keep based on what he did here. Miller should have dominated based on age/experience.

  78. B S says:

    striatic,

    He’s a big center who can skate, even if he fails to get scoring in junior the oilers will still give him another chance, but generating offence by pushing kids around doesn’t tell you anything about how he’ll play in pro. Eventually he’ll have to play men, and there will be a learning curve. Either he starts that curve this year or next year, but I don’t think he gains anything by a year in junior.

  79. Henry says:

    I could not get the game. Is the rieder for kessey lloking as dumb as I initially thought?

  80. striatic says:

    wheatnoil,

    the only player good enough to not look absolutely silly at an NHL TC right now is Roy.

  81. wheatnoil says:

    MacT on Jujhar making OKC instead of WHL: I think I’d be undermining what he’s doing if I really said too much more about him… It’d take a pretty significant jump for him to end up in the American Hockey League this year. I think guys playing against your age group is preferable. The American Hockey League is pretty unfriendly to 19 year olds and it’s important that these guys have success and develop incrementally. We’ll be very careful not to let him bite off more than he can chew.

  82. striatic says:

    Henry,

    yes.

  83. OilLeak says:

    hunter1909,

    Betting against Musil?

  84. Numenius says:

    striatic:
    wheatnoil

    when you compare Roy with Petan, both second round draft picks that Edmonton could have selected, Petan has has a much better tournament. Petan has had better teammates, no question, but he was generating his offense in combination with former 7th rounder Mitchell Theoret so i think we need to give him some credit.

    Not sure how you think the Oilers could have selected Petan. They could have done it with their first 2nd rounder that they traded for the five extra picks, but they couldn’t have done it with the Roy pick. Petan was already gone. You can’t fault the Oilers for missing him then.

  85. wheatnoil says:

    MacT on Nuge playing in the preseason: I would say absolutely not. At this point, in talking to our medical staff everything is on schedule but it’s important for them that we maintain the most pessimistic schedule that we started with, which would be November 1st.

    (Not really new information, but given the ‘absolutely not’ on playing any preseason games, it makes it a little less likely he’ll be ready to go for the season opener.)

  86. wheatnoil says:

    Lowetide: Hopefully a center. I can’t imagine they feel Andrew Miller is anywhere close to helping. I know this is a three game look, but holy hell he’s not close to being a guy you’re going to keep based on what he did here. Miller should have dominated based on age/experience.

    Hmmm, based on the context of the interview, I think he meant that he was going to invite a member of the rookie tournament that wasn’t going to come to main camp otherwise, but he may have not meant it that way.
    Question from Ireland: How many of these players are you taking back to Edmonton and has that number changed since you got here.
    Answer from MacT: Uh, not really, we’re going to take, uh, it might have grown by one, possibly, but we’ll wait and see.

    It’s really a noncommittal answer, but I wonder who he meant by the ‘one’. I wondered if one of these invite goalies would get a camp invite too?

    Edit: I agree though, Miller has not looked anywhere near as strong as I had hoped.

  87. striatic says:

    B S: He’s a big center who can skate, even if he fails to get scoring in junior the oilers will still give him another chance

    they shouldn’t.

    and according to MacT’s verbal, they wouldn’t.

    we will see.

  88. B S says:

    striatic,

    A big center who can skate is a far cry from a cement-footed goon. MacT may have said about scoring, but it is likely the oilers would continue to pursue his development (at least for the length of his ELC) because of his potential upside. I’m not saying they would resign him if he couldn’t score, but they would likely play him in the pros to see if he can still keep up with men before flushing him.

  89. russ99 says:

    No RNH until November, and Miller not looking NHL-ready this week means we better invite a center to camp pronto. I’d be OK with a return of Reasoner at ths point.

  90. Lowetide says:

    I’m astounded about this no RNH until November stuff. Unless I’m off my nut, that’s not what MacT said.

  91. striatic says:

    Numenius: Not sure how you think the Oilers could have selected Petan. They could have done it with their first 2nd rounder that they traded for the five extra picks

    right, but they didn’t trade their first second round pick for 5 extra picks. they traded it for 3 picks [net 2] and then moved that for 2 more [net 4].

    they could have still taken Petan instead of Roy, and then moved the Roy pick to St. Louis for two extra picks just like they did with the pick immediately after Roy. [net 1]

    so the difference between what they did do versus what they could have done was 3 extra picks, not 5 extra picks.

  92. DeadmanWaking says:

    Lowetide: I’m a little afraid he might end up following me in traffic when I make a bad turn!

    That actually made me LOL. And he’ll tag on three extra demerits for embarking on a bad turn with insufficient wheel squeal. The food is bad, and the portions are too small. Lord help the player whose brain farts don’t echo around the arena like an Arctic Warfare Magnum.

  93. striatic says:

    B S: I’m not saying they would resign him if he couldn’t score, but they would likely play him in the pros to see if he can still keep up with men before flushing him.

    i guess. but if you establish he can’t score in the WHL, then you can immediately start looking for replacement assets. in today’s game if a player can’t score in the WHL at 20 they should be essentially disqualified from contention for an NHL role of any kind.

  94. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Lowetide:
    I’m astounded about this no RNH until November stuff. Unless I’m off my nut, that’s not what MacT said.

    That’s not even close to what MacT said.

  95. jp says:

    B S:
    striatic,

    He’s a big center who can skate, even if he fails to get scoring in junior the oilers will still give him another chance, but generating offence by pushing kids around doesn’t tell you anything about how he’ll play in pro. Eventually he’ll have to play men, and there will be a learning curve. Either he starts that curve this year or next year, but I don’t think he gains anything by a year in junior.

    Well, generating offense by pushing anyone around is a skill that can be learned/honed. His College offense last year was OK, but far from dominant. Developing that game against lesser competition to the point he’s a real offensive threat isn’t a bad thing. Putting him in pro hockey right away where he’s basically assured of not being able to generate much offense in the short term doesn’t seem like the most beneficial thing for me. IMO, seeing him (hopefully) be a dominant scorer in the WHL this season is better than 3rd or 4th line minutes in the AHL.

  96. striatic says:

    striatic: in today’s game if a player can’t score in the WHL at 20 they should be essentially disqualified from contention for an NHL role of any kind.

    ok maybe that’s overstating it, there is a possibility that a player can surprise as a late bloomer like a Dustin Penner, but there is a difference between allowing the possibility to be surprised and expecting to be surprised.

  97. RMGS says:

    So, I’m thoroughly impressed with the work of this new fella over at Oilers Nation, Kevin McCartney. Dude can analyze actual hockey tactics and formations and gives excellent player evaluations. I’m a fan of the metrics-heavy Oilogosphere but am happy to read a seemingly competent qualitative analysis through his work.

  98. striatic says:

    jp: IMO, seeing him (hopefully) be a dominant scorer in the WHL this season is better than 3rd or 4th line minutes in the AHL.

    also it is easy to underestimate the size and physicality of the WHL players who actually see significant ice time. there are plenty of players of Khaira’s size that, like Khaira, will play lots and lots of WHL minutes.

  99. wheatnoil says:

    Raymond accepts a PTO with the Maple Leafs. Good move by the Leafs after a summer of some not so good moves.

  100. Lowetide says:

    That’s a great move by Toronto, which opens up all kinds of Edmonton options. They’re going to deal someone if he plays well, and of course there’s Kadri hanging in the wind. A bunch of Leafs forwards I like, maybe one of them shakes loose?

  101. wheatnoil says:

    Very true! I was mainly disappointed because I had been secretly wondering how Raymond would look in an Oilers PTO, but the Maple Leafs situation is tenuous at best. Man, that Clarkson contract has put them in a tough spot with the cap and based on some of the player decisions made over the summer, Nonis is a guy I want MacT trading with. Might be a nice opportunity if MacT has his ear to the stats guys and likes possession, since Nonis doesn’t seem to.

  102. Numenius says:

    striatic: right, but they didn’t trade their first second round pick for 5 extra picks. they traded it for 3 picks [net 2] and then moved that for 2 more [net 4].

    they could have still taken Petan instead of Roy, and then moved the Roy pick to St. Louis for two extra picks just like they did with the pick immediately after Roy. [net 1]

    so the difference between what they did do versuswhat they could have done was 3 extra picks, not 5 extra picks.

    Ok yeah, that makes sense. Just thought I’d check. One way the Oilers could reply though is that they didn’t know St. Louis would offer them a 3 for 1 for Anaheim’s pick at the time when the King’s offered the 3 for 1 for the earlier pick. So it still is very much a question of taking Petan at 37 and risking not getting any extra picks vs. passing on him and getting extra picks (which as you said ended up being 4).

  103. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Lowetide:
    That’s a great move by Toronto, which opens up all kinds of Edmonton options. They’re going to deal someone if he plays well, and of course there’s Kadri hanging in the wind. A bunch of Leafs forwards I like, maybe one of them shakes loose?

    Mason Raymond, if he shows well, is an ideal 3LW for the Leafs who have Lupul, JVR and Fraser McLaren at LW after the departure of Komarov.

    The most likely scenario is that the Leafs will trade JM Liles if Morgan Rielly is ready (and he appears to be) to Calgary for a pick and future considerations (see Nonis-Burke relationship for reference.

    That gives Nonis about $9.5M to sign Kadri and Franson which should be a slam dunk.

    In other news, the Oilers are paying Ryan Jones $1.5M when they, if they had not rushed to judgement as they always do, could have procured Mason Raymond who is a better hockey player.

  104. Ice Sage says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: maybe one of them shakes loose?

    Mason Raymond, if he shows well, is an ideal 3LW for the Leafs who have Lupul, JVR and Fraser McLaren at LW after the departure of Komarov.
    The most likely scenario is that the Leafs will trade JM Liles if Morgan Rielly is ready (and he appears to be) to Calgary for a pick and future considerations (see Nonis-Burke relationship for reference.
    That gives Nonis about $9.5M to sign Kadri and Franson which should be a slam dunk.
    In other news, the Oilers are paying Ryan Jones $1.5M when they, if they had not rushed to judgement as they always do, could have procured Mason Raymond who is a better hockey player.

    Dead Cat Bounce(Quote

    Raymond hasn’t been an effective hockey player since the bruins bust his spine. He’s only getting this ‘opportunity’, that 29 teams, including those managed by oh-so-smarter-than-Lowe GM’s have passed on, as a Nonis favor. He has a lovely skating stride (Raymond, not Nonis)

  105. Manitoba Oilers says:

    Lowetide:
    I’m astounded about this no RNH until November stuff. Unless I’m off my nut, that’s not what MacT said.

    It’s not what he said he said RNH is not playing preseason for sure but is clear for pretty much everything without contact and will stick with there pessimistic timeline of nov1

  106. Lowetide says:

    Manitoba Oilers: It’s not what he said he said RNH is not playing preseason for sure but is clear for pretty much everything without contactand will stick with there pessimistic timeline of nov1

    Sure, but that’s not saying November 1st. he’s saying they are still on the original timeline, which involved Nov 1 as worst case scenario. They’ll bring him along as doctors suggest and that may in fact mean Nov 1.

    But it isn’t November 1st for sure, and there’s been no new information given. This is the same timeline. That’s different than “we can now confirm worst case and it’ll be November 1st” which means we are still waiting for news.

  107. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Ice Sage: Raymond hasn’t been an effective hockey player since the bruins bust his spine.He’s only getting this ‘opportunity’, that 29 teams, including those managed by oh-so-smarter-than-Lowe GM’s have passed on, as a Nonis favor.He has a lovely skating stride (Raymond, not Nonis)

    Raymond scored 10 goals and 22 points in 46 games last season.

    That pro-rates to 18 goals and 39 points.

    That is better than any career season fro Ryan Jones who only managed to score 2 goals and 7 points last season after also suffering an injury.

    Given that Raymond is 2 years younger than Jones, likely cheaper this coming season and a very good penalty killer, I know where I would put my money.

    P/60 5V5

    Raymond 1.51

    Jones 1.38

    Corsi On

    Raymond -1.84

    Jones -.13.85

    Not close, really,

  108. wheatnoil says:

    The funny thing is, I posted that MacT quote about Nuge because I thought it was GOOD news. I was concerned about the MacKenzie tweet from the other day and thought that this helped confirm the old timeline was still in place (while also confirming that Nuge probably wasn’t going to be ready early either).

  109. "Steve Smith" says:

    Dead Cat Bounce,

    It’s not that we don’t think that you’re a talented caricaturist; we’re just wondering about your repertoire.

  110. Lowetide says:

    wheatnoil:
    The funny thing is, I posted that MacT quote about Nuge because I thought it was GOOD news. I was concerned about the MacKenzie tweet from the other day and thought that this helped confirm the old timeline was still in place (while also confirming that Nuge probably wasn’t going to be ready early either).

    Well it MIGHT be good news, they’re just not telling us!

  111. fuzzy muppet says:

    Dead Cat Bounce,

    I think EVERYONE agrees that Raymond is a superior player to Ryan Jones….

    except the Oilers brass.

  112. Hammers says:

    Not a Jones fan but he has been a good link with the youth of the team . As for Raymond got a bad rap in Van for not showing up in key games and not playing 60 minutes . on again off again .

  113. denny33 says:

    Numenius,

    Huh?

    One of the rewards a bottom dwelling team earns is selecting early in all of the rounds in the draft , not just the first round.

    The oilers could have selected the leading scorer from the who, if they wanted to.

  114. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: P/60 5V5

    Raymond 1.51

    Jones 1.38

    Corsi On

    Raymond -1.84

    Jones -.13.85

    Not close, really,

    Well the first stat you quoted is actually pretty damn close. As for the second, how about a little team- & teammate-related context:

    QualTeam
    ========
    Raymond +0.801
    Jones -2.750

    ZoneStart
    ========
    Raymond 56.5%
    Jones 45.4%

    Corsi Relative
    ===========
    Raymond -6.3
    Jones -1.0

    Yes of course, Corsi relative to WHAT? … but it’s a little disingenuous to do a straight comparison of raw Corsi of guys from teams at opposite ends of the standings and pretend it’s the whole truth.

  115. Lowetide says:

    Bruce is spot on, of course. DSF off the grid, as usual

  116. Numenius says:

    denny33:
    Numenius,

    Huh?

    One of the rewards a bottom dwelling team earns is selecting early in all of the rounds in the draft , not just the first round.

    The oilers could have selected the leading scorer from the who, if they wanted to.

    This isn’t what I was disputing. Besides pointing out that they could not have drafted Petan with the Anaheim pick, I was defending the decision to trade the 37th pick for 3 later picks rather than take Petan.

    That’s not to say I thought the trade was a good idea. Taking the leading scorer in the dub at 37 might have been better than trading for extra picks. It’s hard to judge now though.

  117. Zipdot says:

    Numenius: That’s not to say I thought the trade was a good idea. Taking the leading scorer in the dub at 37 might have been better than trading for extra picks. It’s hard to judge now though.

    I think it was a good idea to get the extra picks; with our Bust Hat Trick of Hamilton-Pitlick-Martindale, we needed to restock the cupboards quickly, and that’s just what we did. Of course, one of those cupboards has three players in it and is in Russia….. But still.

  118. Zipdot says:

    Lowetide: Bruce is spot on, of course. DSF off the grid, as usual

    Data Saturated Frownyface, having declared his former fandom for the Oilers, is exposed. We now know that he is driven by a need to justify his giving up on the Oilers by criticizing their every move, to the point of ludicrousness. It may feel good now, D, but when Stanley comes a-knockin’, you will not be able to share in the harvest.

  119. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Well the first stat you quoted is actually pretty damn close. As for the second, how about a little team- & teammate-related context:

    QualTeam
    ========
    Raymond +0.801
    Jones -2.750

    ZoneStart
    ========
    Raymond 56.5%
    Jones 45.4%

    Corsi Relative
    ===========
    Raymond -6.3
    Jones -1.0

    Yes of course, Corsi relative to WHAT? … but it’s a little disingenuous to do a straight comparison of raw Corsi of guys from teams at opposite ends of the standings and pretend it’s the whole truth.

    Well, you pretty much answered your own question.

    Jones leooks okay when compared to the rest of his team mates who were the wrost possession team in the league.

    It’s also not surprising that Raymond, when compared to his team mates, especially the Sedin line, doesn’t look all that good on a team among the best possession teams in the league.

    In this case, raw Corsi is more illuminating.

    As for Zone Starts, I’m pretty sure you are aware of how AV ran his team with his top line getting an overwhelming number of offensive zone starts and his bottom 6 getting buried…so Raymond ranking 5th by that metric is not surprising.

    The difference of 10% in zone starts likely doesn’t mean much either given the limited minutes played by both players in a shortened season and of course the reality the Oilers generally didn’t start in the offensive zone very often due to their lack of possession as a team.

    While zone start certainly sheds some light (some) on how a player is being used it is hardly a beacon for the quality of player under discussion.

    As an example of how misleading it can be EVERY DETROIT FORWARD had a +50% zone start last season, all the way from Zetterburg to Cleary.

    And only 3 Blackhawk forwards had a zone start below 50% last season.

    That’s a little more of the “whole truth”.

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