OILERS BEGIN CUTDOWN WEEK WITH ROSTER MOVES

The Edmonton Oilers said goodbye to a big part of the future this morning–but only for awhile–in sending out several high draft picks in a day that saw 8 names reduced from the training camp roster.

  • Jujhar Khaira: Young man showed flashes of brilliance–and size–but will spend the winter with the Everett Silvertips. We should expect some impressive boxcars. This is probably the right call, although some wondered if time in OKC would have been a wise option.
  • Oscar Klefbom: Suffered an injury during the U of A game and never did get untracked (although part of that may have been Nurse taking the spotlight). Klefbom may be ready in a month or a year, but the key item is health.
  • Martin Marincin: I actually thought he looked more ready than Klefbom. Marincin is a nice player, you can see all kinds of possibilities at both ends of the ice for him. He might end up being a guy who has great success offensively when he arrives in Edmonton–very mobile, skilled.
  • Ryan Martindale: Lost in the flood, big guy who simply has to show better this coming season. Hung around longer than one might have expected, but the real work begins now. The Barons roster sets up well for him.
  • Andrew Miller: No Oiler prospect fell more in September than Miller. We’ll get a better idea about what he’s all about this winter in OKC.
  • Brad Hunt: Terrific puck mover, undersized and far enough down the prospect list to be easily forgotten. Probably unwise to do so.
  • Richard Bachman: AHL starter, #3 man in the overall pecking order. Must clear waivers.
  • Ty Rimmer: Impressed the organization through camp and is likely to get a contract during his OKC stay this week. Bakersfield seems like a likely final destination.

THE CURRENT DEPTH CHART

kmd

THE CERTAIN OILERS (16)

  • Goalies (2) Devan Dubnyk and Jason LaBarbera
  • Defensemen (5) Jeff Petry and Ladislav Smid, Justin Schultz and Andrew Ferense, Nick Schultz
  • Centermen (2) Taylor Hall, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (inj), Sam Gagner (inj), Boyd Gordon
  • Left Wing (3)  David Perron, Jesse Joensuu, Ryan Smyth
  • Right Wing (4) Jordan Eberle, Nail Yakupov, Ales Hemsky, Ryan Jones

Still no cuts from the “certain” list I posted at the beginning of camp, although there are some cracks forming. Ryan Jones has struggled recently and last night’s game didn’t help his cause. Also last night, the Oilers lost another starting center in Sam Gagner, meaning there are now 16 players in the certain category.

THE UNCERTAIN OILERS (12)

  • Goalies (none)
  • Defensemen (5): Anton Belov, Denis Grebeshkov, Corey Potter, Phil Larsen, Oscar Klefbom, Martin Marincin, Taylor Fedun
  • Center (3): Anton Lander, Mark Arcobello, Will Acton, Andrew Miller
  • Left Wing (3): Linus Omark, Ryan Hamilton, Ben Eager
  • Right Wing (1): Mike Brown

We’ve not seen some cuts from this group, and the roster spots are coming into view.  There’s no longer a question in goal (there was no question in goal) but it’s also true that there are 10 defensemen now left on these top two lists. Potentially, the Oilers could cut one defender, IR Potter and have their roster decided with very little actual exposure. Credit to Taylor Fedun for hanging around this long, he’s certainly changing some minds and turning some heads.

Up front, we could see all three men listed at center get through to opening night, courtesy the Gagner injury. That’s a big item though, and we could see a TC roster addition if the Oilers like something currently out there via free agency (or waivers). The wingers all have a chance to make it–with Jones job possibly in play this makes the final week very interesting.

THE OUTSIDERS (8)

  • Goalies (4): Richard Bachman, Olivier Roy, Tyler Bunz, Ty Rimmer
  • Defensemen (6): Brad Hunt, Martin Gernat, Brandon Davidson, David Musil, Darnell Nurse, Joey Leach
  • Centermen (3): Ryan Martindale, CJ Stretch, Travis Ewanyk
  • Left Wing (5): Curtis Hamilton, Austin Fyten, Kale Kessy, Mitchell Moroz, Jujhar Khaira
  • Right Wing (4): Tyler Pitlick, Matt Ford, Derek Nesbitt, Cameron Abney

Lonely trio now, Hamilton hasn’t played in any pre-season games and Pitlick has played in 2 games and has three shots. The big surprise from the outsider list–and it is a surprise–is Darnell Nurse (3, 0-1-1 +2). He’s been getting significant minutes and remains in camp long past the other junior kids. It’s the story of this training camp.

Next up for these players is a game against Winnipeg tomorrow night. Bubble players expected to be in the lineup are underlined (my thanks to Reinman over at ON for the lineups):

  • L1: Hall-Smyth-Hemsky
  • L2: Gordon-Omark-Yakupov
  • L3: Lander-Jones-R Hamilton
  • L4: Arcobello-Joensuu-Pitlick
  • D1: Ference-J Schultz
  • D2: Smid-N Schultz
  • D3: Belov-Larsen
  • G1: Devan Dubnyk
  • G2: Jason LaBarbera

Those are the players who may (or may not) be cut on Tuesday. My guess is Pitlick and Curtis Hamilton are in OKC by Wednesday, and Omark is running out of time.

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101 Responses to "OILERS BEGIN CUTDOWN WEEK WITH ROSTER MOVES"

  1. Big Dan says:

    Why do you hate Omark so much?

    Running out of time? With Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle moving to centre to fill in for RNH and Gagner, Omark and Hemsky have suddenly moved into the top 2 lines.

    The final 7 forward spots go to Gordon, Smyth, Jones, Brown, Joensuu, R.Hamilton, and a C to be acquired (since Lander and Acton struggled).

    They’ll go with 8 D. It looks to me like Potter may be the odd man out because there has been crickets about him. He and Fedun will be the first callups from Oklahoma. Nurse will be in junior. Belov will be #6 … chaotic Larsen and Grebeshkov will be the extras.

    It’s all set. I can’t wait for the season to start.

  2. striatic says:

    i’m rather surprised that Pitlick hasn’t been cut.

  3. Lowetide says:

    Big Dan: I’m cheering like hell for Omark, but he hasn’t done enough to earn it. In fact, without this injury to Gagner his goose looked cooked from here. Hopefully he’s better tomorrow night and shows more than he has so far this TC (2, 0-1-1 +1).

    Striatic: He’s been impressive, suspect they see him as a possible 4line callup. Eakins said the other day he’s an intriguing prospect they need to draw out.

  4. striatic says:

    Lowetide: Striatic: He’s been impressive, suspect they see him as a possible 4line callup. Eakins said the other day he’s an intriguing prospect they need to draw out.

    don’t get me wrong, i like what he’s done in TC. i mentioned during the Winnipeg game that his play is making me a little less worried about the PRV trade. Pitlick has comparable speed and size.

    still, is there any doubt he starts the season in OKC? he’s the only guy in that category that didn’t get cut today.

  5. Zelepukin says:

    striatic:
    i’m rather surprised that Pitlick hasn’t been cut.

    Agreed. This game is a bonus. I would have preferred to have seen Eager draw in.

  6. Lowetide says:

    striatic: don’t get me wrong, i like what he’s done in TC. i mentioned during the Winnipeg game that his play is making me a little less worried about the PRV trade. Pitlick has comparable speed and size.

    still, is there any doubt he starts the season in OKC? he’s the only guy in that category that didn’t get cut today.

    Tells me they want to see him one more time. I think he’s earned it, good for him.

  7. Andropod says:

    Big Dan:
    Why do you hate Omark so much?

    Running out of time?With Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle moving to centre to fill in for RNH and Gagner, Omark and Hemsky have suddenly moved into the top 2 lines.

    The final 7 forward spots go to Gordon, Smyth, Jones, Brown, Joensuu, R.Hamilton, and a C to be acquired (since Lander and Acton struggled).

    They’ll go with 8 D.It looks to me like Potter may be the odd man out because there has been crickets about him.He and Fedun will be the first callups from Oklahoma.Nurse will be in junior.Belov will be #6 … chaotic Larsen and Grebeshkov will be the extras.

    It’s all set.I can’t wait for the season to start.

    Eberle moving to center?

  8. supernova says:

    LT,

    If your MacT what’s your plan at Center as of today?

    This isn’t dissimilar from last season when Belanger and Horcoff got hurt and RNH was limping.

    IMO that was the straw that broke the back for Tambo, he took to long to react and it eventually buried the team.

  9. Racki says:

    In person hearing for Kassian, so that means possibility of quite a few games (in person for *potential* of >5 games). Weise’s hearing is over the phone.

  10. Lowetide says:

    supernova:
    LT,

    If your MacT what’s your plan at Center as of today?

    This isn’t dissimilar from last season when Belanger and Horcoff got hurt and RNH was limping.

    IMO that was the straw that broke the back for Tambo, he took to long to react and it eventually buried the team.

    I’d watch the waiver wire, and would be aggressive in trying to add a Zack Smith or Justin Abdeldaker. This is an important season, and they can’t afford to go too far back.

    If they can’t get anything done and Nuge is unready? I’d run this:

    Hall-Smyth-Eberle
    Gordon-Perron-Yakupov
    Acton-Joensuu-Hemsky
    Lander-R Hamilton-Jones

    Which is a damn shame from where it could be if everyone is healthy.

  11. Racki says:

    The Oilers should look at some stop-gap solutions. Guys that are pending UFAs at the end of the season… vets… anything like that. Don’t need to sell the farm to fill what will be a 1 month need, give or take… This is with the assumption that the Hall experiment is working quite well.

  12. Big Dan says:

    Lowetide,

    Lowetide, it’s ironic that after an impressive pre-season a couple years ago, Omark couldn’t crack the lineup after a hot start. Then right before he was going to get called up after lighting up the AHL, he got hurt.

    This time, he hasn’t had a great camp but injury has opened a door for him. I don’t think he’s a world beater but he is going to make the team out of default. If he doesn’t stick this time, he can’t blame anybody but himself.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Big Dan:
    Lowetide,

    Lowetide, it’s ironic that after an impressive pre-season a couple years ago, Omark couldn’t crack the lineup after a hot start.Then right before he was going to get called up after lighting up the AHL, he got hurt.

    This time, he hasn’t had a great camp but injury has opened a door for him.I don’t think he’s a world beater but he is going to make the team out of default.If he doesn’t stick this time, he can’t blame anybody but himself.

    Agreed. I really felt he’d show well this time around, and you know there’s a chance here for him, especially now. He needs a big game tomorrow night, and he’s getting a nice shot with Yakupov and a veteran center in gordon.

  14. Big Dan says:

    Andropod,

    If Arcobello had impressed in camp, he may have subbed in for Gagner. But he has not. Eberle commented in the summer he’s played C in the past and would be receptive if the Oilers needed him there (which is a different tune than Hall, who doesn’t want C at all).

    The other option at C is Ryan Smyth. Good lord no!

    It only makes sense. We have Yakupov and Hemsky at RW. Besides, Lowetide said so himself – Eberle and Gagner are twins.

    I can’t see anyone on waivers/ cheap that could play on the first two lines. And Abelkader or Z.Smith would be too expensive. We’ll see what magic MacT can do. My bet is a 4th line C – and Eberle moving temporarily to the middle.

    The perfect scenario would be Jussi Jokinen, but the Pens lost a few bodies (Morrow, Iginla, Kennedy, etc) and probably want to keep him. Tambo really dropped the ball last year passing on him.

  15. FastOil says:

    Big Dan:
    Andropod,

    If Arcobello had impressed in camp, he may have subbed in for Gagner.But he has not.Eberle commented in the summer he’s played C in the past and would be receptive if the Oilers needed him there (which is a different tune than Hall, who doesn’t want C at all).

    The other option at C is Ryan Smyth.Good lord no!

    It only makes sense.We have Yakupov and Hemsky at RW.Besides, Lowetide said so himself – Eberle and Gagner are twins.

    I can’t see anyone on waivers/ cheap that could play on the first two lines.And Abelkader or Z.Smith would be too expensive.We’ll see what magic MacT can do.My bet is a 4th line C – and Eberle moving temporarily to the middle.

    The perfect scenario would be Jussi Jokinen, but the Pens lost a few bodies (Morrow, Iginla, Kennedy, etc) and probably want to keep him.Tambo really dropped the ball last year passing on him.

    The Pens are deep at C and Jussi is UFA. They are also very thin on the back end. Larsen (being offensive and can PP) for Jokinen makes sense both ways. Toss in a discounted Jones if they’ll have him, it still fits the cap. He might be better than some of their bottom end guys and they need the extra forward.

  16. VanOil says:

    In my dream world Omark pots a hat trick tomorrow night. Then is traded along with Jones to Florida for Shawn Mathias. In one fall swoop we fix our NHL center, size and LW depth problems. Through in a pick and LT gets his 3 for 1 trade. We should get a pick or two back at the deadline anyways for N.Schultz which MacT can split into even more.

  17. supernova says:

    Lowetide: I’d watch the waiver wire, and would be aggressive in trying to add a Zack Smith or Justin Abdeldaker. This is an important season, and they can’t afford to go too far back.

    If they can’t get anything done and Nuge is unready? I’d run this:

    Hall-Smyth-Eberle
    Gordon-Perron-Yakupov
    Acton-Joensuu-Hemsky
    Lander-R Hamilton-Jones

    Which is a damn shame from where it could be if everyone is healthy.

    Lowetide,

    Big Dan,

    I would love to get Abdelkader, and Ottawa did have some interest in Jones last year in the proposed bishop deal.

    This is a strange time of year to get things done outside of waivers.

    I think a trade is highly unlikely for the first 10 to 20 games. Not impossible but it’s the proverbial ” we want to see what we got”

    I think Steckel and Smithson might be on the table here, because of their free agent status and their ability to win a FO. Once players start returning you can put them on waivers.

    NBA has those 10 day contracts for this purpose, be next to sign someone to a series of those 10 day contracts.

  18. Racki says:

    I know Olli Jokinen plays center, but isn’t Jussi a LW? I’ve only seen Jussi listed as LW and don’t follow the Pens closely (or Carolina, when he was there). I still wouldn’t mind him even at LW, with Hall at center and LW depth pretty low, but unless the Oilers move salary like Nick Schultz, can’t see that being possible.

    Edit: answered my own question… I see by his faceoff numbers, he plays C. Good FO% too.

  19. speeds says:

    I’m kind of surprised the Oilers cut as many D as they did, I thought they’d stick with at least 12 D (maybe 13 due to Potter not playing) to avoid anyone having to play back to back Monday and Tuesday. It’ll be interesting to see who gets back to back games there.

  20. Andropod says:

    Big Dan,

    Makes enough sense as a suggestion, I thought for a moment you had some new info from MacT.
    Losing your 2 top wingers to sub at center is like…. losing your 1st line wings while degrading your centers. There can be nothing good here, how can we be close to what we would be with healthy Nuge and Gags, with all his apparent faults. Never mind the parade, is this goodbye second season, again?

  21. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    FastOil: The Pens are deep at C and Jussi is UFA. They are also very thin on the back end. Larsen (being offensive and can PP) for Jokinen makes sense both ways. Toss in a discounted Jones if they’ll have him, it still fits the cap. He might be better than some of their bottom end guys and they need the extra forward.

    The Penguins are very far from thin on D.

    Letang

    Martin

    Oorpik

    Scuderi

    Niskanen

    Depres

    Engelland

    Bortuzzo

    Pouliot

    Dumolin

    Samuelsson

    Harrington

    If anything, they would likely want to move Paul Martin.

    They could likely use a #3 RW but have no cap space to take on a contract.

  22. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide: I’d watch the waiver wire, and would be aggressive in trying to add a Zack Smith or Justin Abdeldaker.

    What makes you think the Wings would consider moving Abdelkader LT? I don’t see it.

    He can play C or RW and the wings aren’t real strong at RW

  23. cabbiesmacker says:

    FastOil: The Pens are deep at C and Jussi is UFA. They are also very thin on the back end.

    Pens aren’t thin on the back end at all. Niskanen is likely gonzo to help get under the cap though.

  24. iHockeyWpg says:

    Hey LT. Matheson is hinting that the Oil Kings could get Khaira from the Silvertips. Probable or is he just spitballing? I think most Oiler fans would love to see him with the Oil Kings this season as would the Oilers brass. Given the Oil Kings are owned by the Oilers, do you think MacT would try and convince the Oil Kings to acquire Khaira?

  25. Lowetide says:

    cabbiesmacker: What makes you think the Wings would consider moving Abdelkader LT? I don’t see it.

    He can play C or RW and the wings aren’t real strong at RW

    I read somewhere earlier this month that the Wings were looking at moving out a salary and one of the names was Abdelkader. It was on Spectors trade rumors iirc.

  26. striatic says:

    cabbiesmacker, Lowetide,

    also how eager is ottawa going to be to move out Zack Smith, given they just recently signed him to a relatively long term contract?

    gotta think the Gagner substitution is going to be in-house or UFA.

    if you are going to pay out for a spare centre, this has to be the year you do it. trade depletes your numbers, just shuffles deck chairs when what the Oilers really need to do is *net* a player.

  27. jp says:

    striatic:
    cabbiesmacker,Lowetide,

    also how eager is ottawa going to be to move out Zack Smith, given they just recently signed him to a relatively long term contract?

    gotta think the Gagner substitution is going to be in-house or UFA.

    if you are going to pay out for a spare centre, this has to be the year you do it. trade depletes your numbers, just shuffles deck chairs when what the Oilers really need to do is *net* a player.

    I’m sure they’re not keen to give Smith up, but this doesn’t have to be a trade for the Oilers spare parts. Smith was being talked about as a trade target (in exchange for Hemsky) before there was a desperate need for a C. Give up some legitimate prospect or roster player for Smith and you solve the immediate problem AND have a valuable 3rd liner with size going forward.

  28. PunjabiOil says:

    The responses here aren’t encouraging

    http://forums.bettermedicine.com/showthread.php/2161-how-long-does-it-take-to-recover-from-a-broken-jaw

    But yeah, expect he’ll miss at least 10 games, likely 15 (end of October return).

    If RNH can come back after 2 weeks (missing only 5 games), they could be okay. If RNH is coming back Nobember 1st, Kyle Wellwood’s agent should be contact as soon as possible.

    17% of the schedule is being played in October, most on the road. The Oilers can’t really afford to leave points on the table because of Action or Hamilton or Lander.

    It’s quite sad, actually.

  29. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    jp: I’m sure they’re not keen to give Smith up, but this doesn’t have to be a trade for the Oilers spare parts. Smith was being talked about as a trade target (in exchange for Hemsky) before there was a desperate need for a C. Give up some legitimate prospect or roster player for Smith and you solve the immediate problem AND have a valuable 3rd liner with size going forward.

    The Sens had some interest when Hemsky was a factor in talks…but then they traded for Bobby Ryan.

  30. striatic says:

    jp: Smith was being talked about as a trade target (in exchange for Hemsky) before there was a desperate need for a C.

    it would have to be a sign and trade. or include next year’s second rounder or something.

    maybe.

    this sucks.

    maybe you move Eberle to C.

    Eberle, Perron, Yakupov
    Hall, Joensuu, Hemsky
    Gordon, Smyth, Jones – All they do is Check
    Acton, Hamilton, Brown – Former Leafs Line

    looks like a passable lineup if you squint at it.

    this is so damned frustrating.

  31. FastOil says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: The Penguins are very far from thin on D.

    Letang

    Martin

    Oorpik

    Scuderi

    Niskanen

    Depres

    Engelland

    Bortuzzo

    Pouliot

    Dumolin

    Samuelsson

    Harrington

    If anything, they would likely want to move Paul Martin.

    They could likely use a #3 RW but have no cap space to take on a contract.

    IMO they have two good D and maybe a good top 4 depending on Scuderi and Orpik playing really well. This is a team that couldn’t play D when it counted remember. Their young guys are not steady yet which is a problem if you are trying to win now.

    I realize they are in tough cap wise next year but if you want to win now trading your second best 2 way D likely doesn’t help in that. Trade Martin post season. I also think they need a forward less than a steady D especially when you have the two best C in the game who need TOI and chimps could play with. Shero may not.

    Half of Nultz for Jokinen fits. Won’t happen.

  32. striatic says:

    PunjabiOil: If RNH can come back after 2 weeks (missing only 5 games), they could be okay. If RNH is coming back Nobember 1st, Kyle Wellwood’s agent should be contact as soon as possible.

    you know .. i think i’d rather Arcobello play than Wellwood.

    Arcobello has been excellent in AHL play and over a point per game in the last two AHL playoffs. He’s played with Hall and Eberle in the AHL, with success.

    in an ideal situation, there’s no room on the team for him but it isn’t like Arcobello is terrible. maybe he isn’t NHL ready but we don’t know that yet. 0.9 P/GP in the AHL is nothing to sneeze at. 1.17 P/GP in the playoffs.

    is it possible we’ve repeated the mantra that Edmonton is weak at C so many times that we’ve forgotten there is a player here?

  33. FastOil says:

    Arco is a good little player but kind of the opposite of what MacT said he wants in the lower lines, and I don’t think he’ll play ahead of NHL players at C, can’t hide him.

  34. Colonel Obvious says:

    This isn’t the time to panic. The good news out of training camp is that the line combinations of the returning players have been very effective. Keeping those guys together gives you two very good lines.

    Smyth–Hall–Hemsky
    Perron–Gordon–Eberle

    This is two lines that can play against anybody. For the third line you go with established track record and not a couple of preseason games and a few practices. That means Arcobello is your center. He was the better player in the AHL last year over Acton and Lander. Go with sample size.
    That gives you a third line of.

    (Joensu)–Arcobello–Yakupov. This line can play in the NHL.

    I put Joensu in brackets because that’s where I stop being sure. If you prefer Hamilton or Omark go with them*. Then you patch the fourth line together out of spare parts and hope for the best.

    *I left Ryan Jones off because he is terrible.

    Above all do not trade Hemsky for Smith or some other stopgap. Hemsky is a big part of what is making Hall at center work.

  35. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Looks like quite a bun fight between Toronto and Buffalo.

    3rd period penalties:

    3RD PERIOD
    00:52 BUF B. McNabb Tripping – 2 min against N. Kadri
    07:14 TOR J. van Riemsdyk Interference – Goalkeeper – 2 min against R. Miller
    10:01 TOR J. Devane Fighting – 5 min against C. Tropp
    10:01 BUF C. Tropp Fighting – 5 min against J. Devane
    10:01 TOR A. MacWilliam Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 TOR T. Bozak Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 TOR D. Clarkson Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 TOR J. Bernier Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 TOR T. Brennan Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 BUF B. Flynn Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 BUF M. Zigomanis Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 BUF C. Ruhwedel Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 BUF J. Scott Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 BUF R. Miller Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 TOR D. Clarkson Leaving player’s/penalty bench – 10 min
    10:01 BUF D. Bagnall Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 TOR C. Ashton Fighting – 5 min
    10:01 BUF J. Scott Instigator – 2 min against P. Kessel
    10:01 TOR J. Bernier Goalie leave crease – 2 min against R. Miller
    10:01 BUF R. Miller Goalie leave crease – 2 min
    10:14 BUF J. Scott Misconduct – 10 min
    10:54 BUF J. Scott Game misconduct – 10 min against P. Kessel
    11:22 TOR J. Liles Roughing – 2 min against C. Hodgson
    11:57 TOR C. Ashton Misconduct – 10 min
    12:22 TOR T. Bozak Misconduct – 10 min
    12:33 TOR T. Brennan Misconduct – 10 min
    12:45 TOR A. MacWilliam Misconduct – 10 min
    13:07 TOR J. Bernier Misconduct – 10 min
    13:22 TOR D. Clarkson Leaving player’s/penalty bench – 10 min
    13:33 BUF J. Armia Hooking – 2 min against N. Kadri
    13:33 BUF D. Bagnall Misconduct – 10 min
    13:47 BUF M. Zigomanis Misconduct – 10 min
    14:01 BUF B. Flynn Misconduct – 10 min
    15:48 TOR J. van Riemsdyk Roughing – 2 min against B. McNabb
    15:48 BUF B. McNabb Roughing – 2 min against J. van Riemsdyk
    20:00 BUF R. Miller Game misconduct – 10 min against J. Bernier

  36. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Apparently John Scott went after Kessel…David Clarkson didn’t like it, leaving the bench to protect Kessel and all hell broke loose.

    Including a goalie fight.

    Quite a contrast to what happened last night.

  37. iHockeyWpg says:

    Video of Toronto Buffalo brouhaha

    http://t.co/af1gzeVECi

  38. Numenius says:

    Just was looking at the Penguins cap situation, and am thankful we’re not in their shoes. I don’t see how they’ll ever win a cup unless it’s this year. They have too much money tied up in too few players. Next season they’re paying $53,625,000 for 12 players (avg $4.5 per player), and will have to sign 11 players for what’s left under the cap. Even if the cap is $70 million (and it’ll likely be less), that’s still only about $16 million available for 11 players, including a top 4 D and top 6 F. I’d go on record as saying they’ll never win a cup in the Crosby era, unless something drastic changes.

  39. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Numenius:
    Just was looking at the Penguins cap situation, and am thankful we’re not in their shoes. I don’t see how they’ll ever win a cup unless it’s this year. They have too much money tied up in too few players. Next season they’re paying $53,625,000 for 12 players (avg $4.5 per player), and will have to sign 11 players for what’s left under the cap. Even if the cap is $70 million (and it’ll likely be less), that’s still only about $16 million available for 11 players, including a top 4 D and top 6 F. I’d go on record as saying they’ll never win a cup in the Crosby era, unless something drastic changes.

    THe Oilers will have exactly the same problem.

  40. Racki says:

    http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=pipe42/latest/1/0/1008937/clip/0

    So the Sabres / Leafs game panned out tonight almost like a scripted version of discussions here earlier today.

    A Leaf and smaller Sabre guy go at it (not sure the names). Sabre loses his bucket and while being punched, hits his head on the ice.

    This sets Scott off into kill mode (something we’d talked about today saying the Oilers should do). He went after Kessel. Kessel backed up and took a couple swings at him with his stick. Off the bench comes David Clarkson (who foolishly will be ripped by Leafs Nation for coming to the defense of a teammate… they’ll see it as a stupid guy who will get 10 games) and a line brawl ensues.

    Anyways, I’m really interested to see the outcome of this, because it really played into conversations here today. Big goon John Scott could have had his way with Kessel, if not for Clarkson. I’d bet money that Clarkson gets 10, and Scott either gets off scot-free (pun unintentional), or gets a small slap on the wrist.

    If that’s the outcome of this, then I have to ask what kind of message does this send? Go for the other player’s stars, because you’ll get a slap on the wrist for it, and they’ll end up losing more? Of course it’s just speculation on my part here… really interested to see the outcome.

  41. theres oil in virginia says:

    iHockeyWpg:
    Video of Toronto Buffalo brouhaha

    http://t.co/af1gzeVECi

    Wow. Kessel took the stick hard to John Scott’s leg multiple times; then after Kessel disengaged with whoever that was, he went over and lightly speared Scott again while he was tied up with Clarkson. I think Kessel sent the message that he wasn’t going to be fucked with. That video should be on a loop in the Oilers dressing room.

  42. Lowetide says:

    Clarkson is a world class dummy for coming off the bench. I don’t think there’s any doubt of it. As for Scott, he’s not a hockey player and again this goes to enforcer use. In this instance, the penalty (10 games) is insane for Toronto, but Scott will/could be back next week for all we know.

    It’s not Scott’s fault that Clarkson is too stupid for words, but it’s also true Scott is too stupid for words.

  43. theres oil in virginia says:

    Racki,

    Highly speculative outcome. We’ll see. I’m sure you’re right though that Clarkson and/or Kessel will be seeing some punishment. No way Scott has his way with Kessel there; Kessel backed away and started swinging with his stick like one would if one were fighting off a wild dog. It reminds me a bit of how Yakupov ducked a check last year, only to a different degree. I imagine that Don Cherry will not approve.

  44. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Racki:
    http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=pipe42/latest/1/0/1008937/clip/0

    So the Sabres / Leafs game panned out tonight almost like a scripted version of discussions here earlier today.

    A Leaf and smaller Sabre guy go at it (not sure the names). Sabre loses his bucket and while being punched, hits his head on the ice.

    This sets Scott off into kill mode (something we’d talked about today saying the Oilers should do). He went after Kessel. Kessel backed up and took a couple swings at him with his stick. Off the bench comes David Clarkson (who foolishly will be ripped by Leafs Nation for coming to the defense of a teammate… they’ll see it as a stupid guy who will get 10 games) and a line brawl ensues.

    Anyways, I’m really interested to see the outcome of this, because it really played into conversations here today. Big goon John Scott could have had his way with Kessel, if not for Clarkson. I’d bet money that Clarkson gets 10, and Scott either gets off scot-free (pun unintentional), or gets a small slap on the wrist.

    If that’s the outcome of this, then I have to ask what kind of message does this send? Go for the other player’s stars, because you’ll get a slap on the wrist for it, and they’ll end up losing more? Of course it’s just speculation on my part here… really interested to see the outcome.

    Clarkson will get an automatic 10 games but you can bet the other Leafs grew an inch and added 20 pounds tonight.

    The real villain, though, was Scott.

    I agree that how his conduct is assessed is a huge tell.

  45. Lowetide says:

    This entire days has been insane. Clarkson COST HIS TEAM AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT TODAY BECAUSE HE ACTED AS A CHILD.

    Stupid stupid stupid.

  46. VanOil says:

    I don’t see how Kessel does not get 5 games (like Kassian should get) the result of the stick swing was not as bad but the intent is unquestionable.

    with Clarkson gone for 10
    with Kessel deserving 5
    and Lupul hurt because he is Lupul

    Playing the Leafs in November might be even more fun than playing the Oilers for opposing fans.

  47. Racki says:

    Lowetide:
    Clarkson is a world class dummy for coming off the bench. I don’t think there’s any doubt of it. As for Scott, he’s not a hockey player and again this goes to enforcer use. In this instance, the penalty (10 games) is insane for Toronto, but Scott will/could be back next week for all we know.

    It’s not Scott’s fault that Clarkson is too stupid for words, but it’s also true Scott is too stupid for words.

    Completely disagree here. Clarkson’s going to take a beating on this, but John Scott is going after a star player, I say good on Clarkson for intervening. He’ll get the worst of it in the end, but to me that just goes to show what a joke the leagues dept of discipline is. 10 games for trying to prevent a teammate from getting murdered by a useless thug, but the useless thug will get nothing of course. Even if he did manage to get his hands on Kessel, he would have got nothing.

    The only dumb part of it was maybe the timing.. it looked like Scott was already wrapped up by that point.

  48. LMHF#1 says:

    Haven’t watched the video yet, but this is being viewed in the context of Kessel being a d-bag and the Leafs having gooned up for several years, right?

  49. theres oil in virginia says:

    Either eliminate goons or eliminate fighting. It’s becoming a bad joke.

  50. Racki says:

    If Kessel gets any games, and Clarkson gets 10 (almost unquestionable), then it just goes to show you how backwards the rules are. People are ripping on Kessel and Clarkson for just defending themselves and letting the big, useless goon that went after a star off the hook.

    If that works, let’s pick up MacIntyre to kill both Sedin’s next game vs Vancouver.. he’ll get his instigator penalty, and we get to see the Sedins out. (being sarcastic, fyi)

  51. Colonel Obvious says:

    Toronto deserves everything they get. Since Carlyle took over they are pretty close to the dirtiest team in the league. Clarkson will get suspended but so should Kessel. Coming back at Scott afterwards and spearing him was two steps beyond.

    As for Scott, I have no problem with what he did. Fighting other tough guys is completely pointless. They put one of your guys in the hospital you put one of their guys in the morgue. It’s that simple.

    The other idiotic thing about this is how guys like Spector are going to say this is why you have to have fighting when they whole thing was started by a stupid fight gone bad.

    I wish they’d take fighting out of the game. However, if fighting is going to be part of the game then I am fine with Scott doing this. There was no sucker punch or anything. Just an honest demand that Kessel be accountable for his coach. If the NHL cares about fairness Scott will get nothing.

    This stuff will keep happening until suspensions for attempts to injure start at ten games and suspensions for reckless play start at five games and escalate from their depending on severity and track record. Fighting can’t stop it.

    This reminds me but how many games did Jordan Nolan get for his hit? That was way worse than someone leaving the bench. I would have suspended him for 20 games.

  52. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Racki: Completely disagree here. Clarkson’s going to take a beating on this, but John Scott is going after a star player, I say good on Clarkson for intervening. He’ll get the worst of it in the end, but to me that just goes to show what a joke the leagues dept of discipline is. 10 games for trying to prevent a teammate from getting murdered by a useless thug, but the useless thug will get nothing of course. Even if he did manage to get his hands on Kessel, he would have got nothing.

    The only dumb part of it was maybe the timing.. it looked like Scott was already wrapped up by that point.

    This.

  53. fifthcartel says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Agreed, watching that was pretty ridiculous.

  54. Lowetide says:

    LMHF#1: Haven’t watched the video yet, but this is being viewed in the context of Kessel being a d-bag and the Leafs having gooned up for several years, right?

    Not in this case. Kessel did swing his stick but Sasquatch was headed his way. The deal is the Clarkson thing. Insane. 10 GAMES FOR THE BIG FREE AGENT! Lordy.

    Carlyle’s pissed btw.

  55. geowal says:

    I have no idea who Brian Flynn is but Kessel certainly held his own with him. If it wasn’t for his late spear on Scott there is now way Kessel should even have a hearing, as someone else said he was just beating off a mad dog. The late spear might get him something though. Regardless, really impressed with Kessel on that, which is a weird thing to be saying.

  56. Colonel Obvious says:

    LMHF#1:
    Haven’t watched the video yet, but this is being viewed in the context of Kessel being a d-bag and the Leafs having gooned up for several years, right?

    I would hope. The Leafs run a goon squad. They should reap the consequences of their own actions.

    Racki,

    I don’t see how Scott could possibly be suspended. He didn’t jump Kessel from behind, he didn’t use his stick, he didn’t leave the bench, hell he barely even instigated a fight. Scott is, and should be, entirely in the clear. I wish more teams and players behaved this way. The game would clean up quick.

    If he gets anything it will be a huge tell that the NHL has no standards of justice. If you don’t want fighting, eliminate fighting. But so long as there is fighting Scott did everything right while Kessel and Clarkson did everything wrong.

  57. Mr DeBakey says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Clarkson will get an automatic 10 games but you can bet the other Leafs grew an inch and added 20 pounds tonight.

    Oh Bullshit
    Let’s leave this sort of crap to that clown on HNIC, the one who hasn’t coached in decades.

  58. jp says:

    Racki: Completely disagree here. Clarkson’s going to take a beating on this, but John Scott is going after a star player, I say good on Clarkson for intervening. He’ll get the worst of it in the end, but to me that just goes to show what a joke the leagues dept of discipline is. 10 games for trying to prevent a teammate from getting murdered by a useless thug, but the useless thug will get nothing of course. Even if he did manage to get his hands on Kessel, he would have got nothing.

    The only dumb part of it was maybe the timing.. it looked like Scott was already wrapped up by that point.

    I agree with you that Clarkson’s intent was defensible. It’s great that he’s coming to the aid of a teammate. But you have to weigh the impact of a potential 10 game suspension vs. what harm might have been prevented to Kessel and what positive effect this could have on team morale, etc. If Kessel wasn’t in imminent physical danger (and he didn’t appear to be by that point), than taking what will likely be a lengthy suspension most definitely was dumb.

  59. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Mr DeBakey: Oh Bullshit
    Let’s leave this sort of crap to that clown on HNIC, the one who hasn’t coached in decades.

    You’ve coached more games in the NHL since then?

  60. Racki says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: This.

    Oh crap. Sorry guys, I must be in the wrong here if DSF is agreeing with me ;)

    All kidding aside…

    The Kessel “spear” was a love tap. He skated up and gave him a little push with his stick. I can’t believe I’m defending the Leafs, as I hate them as much as anyone else… but that was small time. I’m not even sure it was deserving of a penalty. But I do get that the Leafs have been known to employ thuggery and push other teams around, and Kessel poking the bear does go to show what kind of a douche he is.

    But I still think that really this game is the prototype of discussions had here today. If the Leafs come out of this with the worst (and they most likely will, in a BIG way), then it just goes to show you… employ a goon, and get him on the ice with the other team’s star right off the faceoff. At worst, he gets kicked out of the game and nothing happens.. at best, he manages to do some serious damage to the other player’s star. I’m not actually suggesting this happens, but if the outcome of this game is what I suspect it will be, then gooning the other team’s player after a faceoff seems like an easy way to do some damage to a team.

  61. Racki says:

    jp: I agree with you that Clarkson’s intent was defensible. It’s great that he’s coming to the aid of a teammate. But you have to weigh the impact of a potential 10 game suspension vs. what harm might have been prevented to Kessel and what positive effect this could have on team morale, etc. If Kessel wasn’t in imminent physical danger (and he didn’t appear to be by that point), than taking what will likely be a lengthy suspension most definitely was dumb.

    Yah, like I said at the end of my rant, the timing of Clarkson coming off the bench didn’t seem so smart.. Scott looked like he was already wrapped up. But I don’t blame Clarkson at all. In the heat of the moment it’s hard to tell what’s going on and hard to know if Scott will get out of that pile and get his hands on Kessel or someone else.

  62. LMHF#1 says:

    Lowetide: Not in this case. Kessel did swing his stick but Sasquatch was headed his way. The deal is the Clarkson thing. Insane. 10 GAMES FOR THE BIG FREE AGENT! Lordy.

    Carlyle’s pissed btw.

    Oh certainly, i just can’t stand when teams that behave like the Leafs or Canucks are defended. They’re lucky more teams don’t John Scott them. If Sather was GM during the past few years half of me is convinced he would have decided to run a goon line and wear down some Canuck stars over a year or two.

  63. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide:
    Carlyle’s pissed btw.

    He should be pissed. Aren’t you? I am. I’m sick of this shit. And in the preseason, no less.

    I think it’s safe to say Clarkson made a mistake, but I think it’s tough to hold back in that situation.

  64. Colonel Obvious says:

    Racki,

    But you are missing the point that this all started because the Leafs employ goons as a regular part of their strategy.

    I think Scott did the right thing. I also think Kessel did the right thing. If some giant man wants to fight me on the ice, swinging a stick at his legs is the least I would do. I would swing it at his head. I also kind of think Clarkson did the right thing.

    The blame for this is on Carlyle in particular, for using goons as a regular part of his strategy and on the NHL for encouraging him. Reap what you sow.

  65. Lowetide says:

    theres oil in virginia: He should be pissed.Aren’t you?I am.I’m sick of this shit.And in the preseason, no less.

    I think it’s safe to say Clarkson made a mistake, but I think it’s tough to hold back in that situation.

    He’s got to keep his powder dry. That’s the deal. I sure as hell didn’t blame Kessel for swinging his stick, honestly if he’d found forehead I still don’t think you can fault him.

    However, Clarkson knows the rules. 10 games? I hate the Leafs and I’m sick about it. Jesus. People lose jobs because of this stuff.

    Freaking hammer head.

  66. Racki says:

    Colonel Obvious:
    I don’t see how Scott could possibly be suspended.He didn’t jump Kessel from behind, he didn’t use his stick, he didn’t leave the bench, hell he barely even instigated a fight.Scott is, and should be, entirely in the clear. I wish more teams and players behaved this way. The game would clean up quick.

    If he gets anything it will be a huge tell that the NHL has no standards of justice.If you don’t want fighting, eliminate fighting.But so long as there is fighting Scott did everything right while Kessel and Clarkson did everything wrong.

    Hypothetical scenario for you.. similar to this one….

    Oilers vs. Sabres. John Scott lines up beside Jordan Eberle, gives him a quick warning, then goes after him. That’s OK by you? I don’t think it’s OK by me at all. If that’s OK by the NHL and everyone else, then again, I say let’s get MacIntyre here and have him chase some star players around since he’s only going to get ejected from the game at worst anyways.

    And I do get that the Leafs brought this upon themselves in a sense. It’s just an interesting “case study”, so to speak. This case proves that this tactic Scott and the Sabres employed tonight works. When the Canucks go after Hall, we should have Brown or another thug for hire drop his gloves and target their star off the faceoff.

  67. Lowetide says:

    Racki: Hypothetical scenario for you.. similar to this one….

    Oilers vs. Sabres. John Scott lines up beside Jordan Eberle, gives him a quick warning, then goes after him. That’s OK by you? I don’t think it’s OK by me at all. If that’s OK by the NHL and everyone else, then again, I say let’s get MacIntyre here and have him chase some star players around since he’s only going to get ejected from the game at worst anyways.

    Unless Eakins had a stroke, Eberle wouldn’t be on the ice with Scott. Oilers have last change, as did Toronto tonight.

  68. B S says:

    Racki:
    If Kessel gets any games, and Clarkson gets 10 (almost unquestionable), then it just goes to show you how backwards the rules are. People are ripping on Kessel and Clarkson for just defending themselves and letting the big, useless goon that went after a star off the hook.

    If that works, let’s pick up MacIntyre to kill both Sedin’s next game vs Vancouver.. he’ll get his instigator penalty, and we get to see the Sedins out. (being sarcastic, fyi)

    The rules are what the problem ultimately comes down to. The league will hand out a 10 game suspension to a player who was just trying to defend a teammate from an absurd mismatch, but neither the goon going after the star player, nor the jackass using his hockey stick like a weapon will see anything near that. It kind of plays into what I’ve been saying, dirty or not, if you’re going to play, play to win. If it makes more sense to take out the Sedins (leading scorers for a division rival) for 30 games and have give up a goal in a game that you’ve probably already lost (bare in mind that this fights usually come from blow-outs, not the close 3-2 nailbiters.), than to leave them alone and play fair, then go for it, because any retaliation on their part will only cost them more.

    I’ll be honest and say that I wish the league would crack down on the cheap shots and head hunting. Not the retaliations and fighting, because if you get rid of the cheapshots, there’s no more excuse for fights, goons, and you might actually get to see the best players in the world play hockey.

  69. Colonel Obvious says:

    LMHF#1: Oh certainly, i just can’t stand when teams that behave like the Leafs or Canucks are defended. They’re lucky more teams don’t John Scott them. If Sather was GM during the past few years half of me is convinced he would have decided to run a goon line and wear down some Canuck stars over a year or two.

    This. A million times this.

    theres oil in virginia: He should be pissed.Aren’t you?I am.I’m sick of this shit.And in the preseason, no less.

    I think it’s safe to say Clarkson made a mistake, but I think it’s tough to hold back in that situation.

    Why should Carlyle be pissed? His team does this every fucking game. No one deserves more blame for this than him. If you are sick of this shit then Randy Fucking Carlyle should be enemy #1. Nothing is going to change until the teams that act this way suffer the consequences of their actions.

    The Leafs are a dirty, dirty, hockey team and they deserve everything they get. They deserve the proximate blame.

    The league, however, deserves the ultimate blame. When the Bruins gooned up the Sabres running their goalie, etc. the league did nothing. So the Sabres did what rational people do. If you can’t beat them join them.

    The Bruins and the Leafs are as dirty as teams can get and the league has never done anything to stop them from being dirty. That’s where the blame lies.

  70. LMHF#1 says:

    Racki: Hypothetical scenario for you.. similar to this one….

    Oilers vs. Sabres. John Scott lines up beside Jordan Eberle, gives him a quick warning, then goes after him. That’s OK by you? I don’t think it’s OK by me at all. If that’s OK by the NHL and everyone else, then again, I say let’s get MacIntyre here and have him chase some star players around since he’s only going to get ejected from the game at worst anyways.

    We’re not the Leafs or Canucks. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if it happens to Burrows or Kesler one day and there would be very little reason for any tears to be shed.

  71. Racki says:

    Lowetide: Unless Eakins had a stroke, Eberle wouldn’t be on the ice with Scott. Oilers have last change, as did Toronto tonight.

    The Leafs had last change, yes, and that was stupid of Carlyle.. and while I said “Oilers VS Sabres”, a better scenario would have been for me to say “Oilers at Sabres” (i.e., ignore the last change possibility, as in a road game this could happen). And last night Eakins had his stars against an entire lineup of Canucks zombies, so I wouldn’t give him that much credit (not blaming him though, just saying you may not always see it coming).

  72. Colonel Obvious says:

    B S: I’ll be honest and say that I wish the league would crack down on the cheap shots and head hunting. Not the retaliations and fighting, because if you get rid of the cheapshots, there’s no more excuse for fights, goons, and you might actually get to see the best players in the world play hockey.

    I agree with this. If you cracked down hard on the cheapshots the fighting would go away all by itself. Don’t punish the retaliation, punish the first offense. Instead, the league does the exact opposite and these things happen over and over again.

  73. wheatnoil says:

    Stupid Stupid Stupid. So many stupid aspects to the whole incident. Not the least of which was the goalie fight. What happens if Ryan Miller breaks his hand in the fight or gets concussed? How in hell does that help Buffalo? For what gain exactly? How did fighting Bernier help his team win the Stanley Cup? There’s a reason why quarterbacks slide down after they hit the first down line, passing up an extra couple yards to avoid the big hit. Question: Isn’t there an automatic suspension for a goalie crossing the red-line to engage in a fight?

    As for Clarkson, I see what he was trying to do, but it doesn’t make it any less dumb. Nobody’s tougher for what happened. Nobody’s braver. The Maple Leafs are no less likely to get cheap-shot. Hell, if I know Clarkson’s going to do that, if I was bit player on a team in Toronto’s division, I’d drop my gloves and go after Kessel every time. Do it right near the bench. Maybe I can get Clarkson suspended for another 10 games. Got back-to-backs against the Maple Leafs? Do it early in the first period, get him out early. First game in a playoff series? Even better!

    Also, fights off the face-off are stupid.

    This isn’t an example of being ‘tougher’, growing ’20 lbs and an inch taller’, or playing a ‘man’s game’. This is an example of boys being boys in the schoolyard. This isn’t a hit gone too far and players coming in to defend their brothers. This is some bit player feeling like he has to send a message launching into 5 minutes of nonsense. There is no message being sent here. There’s just an injury risk and players being suspended so ticket holders don’t get to see the big off-season acquisition for 10 games. Which means, as always, the paying public loses. All started because Scott wanted to send a pointless message.

  74. Racki says:

    In the end of all of this, it just kind of killed the argument against employing a full time goon, in my opinion. How can you not think it’s a good idea now? Either you keep him around “just in case” or you send him out like John Scott was sent out, when the game is already lost. I’m not saying the Leafs are innocent either, just saying that if Scott gets no punishment or a slap on the wrist, it just goes to show that the argument that a full time goon is useless isn’t quite true. Send them out with around 10 minutes left, when the other team’s got their skill guys out, and have him jump them off the faceoff (presumably at home, where you have the last change).

    I’m not saying I blame Scott for what he did or that the Leafs were innocent victims, but I’d totally do the same thing to the Canucks (or the Flames of old) if I were coaching the Oilers. Seems you don’t have anything to lose by doing so.

    All in all though, I am guessing viewership for Leafs/Sabres broadcasts will be at an all-time high this year.

  75. Southern Oil says:

    I see this a few different ways. I am generally in agreement with LT that a team does not need a Scott type of enforcer taking up a roster spot. However I think the concept they represent should be part of a team. For example, after last night, I would not have been opposed to seeing Ryan Smyth (just as an example) put his stick through Kassian’s face. Or if he wasn’t available, someone else. I think when a goon squad comes out, you need to have an answer. I am not sure going to the power play is enough – at least not in the preseason. Maybe things change in the regular season, I am not sure.

  76. Colonel Obvious says:

    Racki,

    A goon remains a total waste of a roster spot. It’s not like the Sabres accomplished anything here. Their guy still got hurt and other players will get hurt in the future. It’s all very pointless.

  77. russ99 says:

    Despite the obvious dislike for the Leafs, I don’t see any difference between what Scott tried to pull on Kessel that what Wiese did to Hall, and Kassian to Gagner.

    No-talent thug on the roster for one thing going after the other teams’ star players. I applaud Kessel for doing what he did. Take note, young Oilers…

    The sooner these goons are out of the league, the better. Bettman and Shanahan need to come down hard on these guys, since how marketable is a league when your best players are getting beat up despite it’s sometimes storied history of violence, i.e. the biggest news out of this thuggery will likely be the goalie fight.

  78. Lowetide says:

    Well, it’s obvious, but Colonel Obvious just won the thread! :-)

  79. wheatnoil says:

    Racki:
    In the end of all of this, it just kind of killed the argument against employing a full time goon, in my opinion. How can you not think it’s a good idea now? Either you keep him around “just in case” or you send him out like John Scott was sent out. I’m not saying the Leafs are innocent either, just saying that if Scott gets no punishment or a slap on the wrist, it just goes to show that the argument that a full time goon is useless aren’t quite true. Send them out with around 10 minutes left, when the other team’s got their skill guys out, and have him jump them off the faceoff (presumably at home, where you have the last change).

    What if Kessel had just turtled or gone down in the first second? Then he draws a penalty, no one gets injured, no one gets a suspension, and we get back to hockey 5 minutes sooner with the Leafs on a powerplay. I understand there’s some notion of male ‘bravado’ that speaks against this, but like I said, this isn’t teenage boys on the schoolyard. This is a multi-billion dollar industry with tens of millions at stake hinging on a playoff berth. Let the star player turtle and get back to scoring goals, which is what a) he’s paid to do and b) people are paying to watch him do. It’s not like Kessel cheap-shot someone earlier in the game that he had to stand up for (at least, I don’t think he did, I didn’t watch the game… he didn’t right?). Why should he put up with that nonsense?

  80. Racki says:

    Colonel Obvious:
    Racki,

    A goon remains a total waste of a roster spot.It’s not like the Sabres accomplished anything here.Their guy still got hurt and other players will get hurt in the future.It’s all very pointless.

    I agree that it’s all pointless/stupid, but if Scott would have gotten his hands on Kessel, then it might not have ended that way. I think the only thing that prevented that was that Scott actually warned him ahead of time that he was going to jump him. My point simply is that the way the rules are currently set up, a goon could easily jump a star player off the faceoff and suffer a mere 1 game suspension while the other team has worse consequences (a player lost to injury.. or in the case of Clarkson, a suspension for defending him off the bench). I’m surprised we didn’t really see this until now. i guess Scott and the Sabres just got tired of dealing with the leafs crap. I.e. you can only poke a dog so many times before it will bite.

  81. Young Oil says:

    I’m with LT in saying that Clarkson was beyond stupid for leaving the bench. If you watch the video, two Leafs are on Scott before Clarkson even leaves the bench, and Kessel was far away and safe from Scott. Leaving the bench and jumping on a guy who’s already on the ground doesn’t exactly scream courage and leadership. It all wouldn’t have happened if Carlyle didn’t put his star player on the ice right next to an enforcer who clearly was going on the ice for the sole purpose of fighting someone.

    Sorry this is a bit off topic though, but I can’t find any data on it, does anyone know when the last player to get suspended for doing something to an Oiler was?

  82. wheatnoil says:

    Colonel Obvious:
    Racki,

    A goon remains a total waste of a roster spot.It’s not like the Sabres accomplished anything here.Their guy still got hurt and other players will get hurt in the future.It’s all very pointless.

    This. What I wanted to say FAR more concisely.

  83. VanOil says:

    When I was a young boy this angry man wearing funny suits used to come on television and tell me you need fighting in hockey and tough guys to stop filthy foreigners from using there sticks as weapons. This and hiding behind visors was for girly men.

    Does Kessel being the favored son of the center of the universe mean it is OK for him to use his stick as a weapon in non-open play. Bringing a weapon to a fight is against the rules in the WWE why not the NHL?

    He could of tied him up, turtled or out skated that Goon until the cavalry showed up. I would be appalled if he is not suspended for 5+. Bringing your stick up even deliberately when someone is taking a run at you in open play is one thing and worthy of some discipline (like a penalty). Using you stick or skate as a weapon intentionally in non open play totally different. I would suspend him for 20. I suspect the league will not have the guts to do anything to TOs star. I was kicked out of a tournament for such behavior as a kid, what would young kids think now if Kessel gets away with it.

  84. Racki says:

    wheatnoil: What if Kessel had just turtled or gone down in the first second? Then he draws a penalty, no one gets injured, no one gets a suspension, and we get back to hockey 5 minutes sooner with the Leafs on a powerplay. I understand there’s some notion of male ‘bravado’ that speaks against this, but like I said, this isn’t teenage boys on the schoolyard. This is a multi-billion dollar industry with tens of millions at stake hinging on a playoff berth. Let the star player turtle and get back to scoring goals, which is what a) he’s paid to do and b) people are paying to watch him do. It’s not like Kessel cheap-shot someone earlier in the game that he had to stand up for (at least, I don’t think he did, I didn’t watch the game… he didn’t right?). Why should he put up with that nonsense?

    I think it takes bigger balls to turtle than it does to grab on and hang on for deal life. I say that because you know you’re going to hear it from fans all over the continent after that. But that probably would be the ideal outcome. Not sure how many players would actually do that though.

  85. DeadmanWaking says:

    If Sam were actually as tall as the media guide lists him, that would have been a shoulder injury. The Fates need to not trust everything they read.

  86. Young Oil says:

    VanOil:
    When I was a young boy this angry man wearing funny suits used to come on television and tell me you need fighting in hockey and tough guys to stop filthy foreigners from using there sticks as weapons. This and hiding behind visors was for girly men.

    Does Kessel being the favored son of the center of the universe mean it is OK for him to use his stick as a weapon in non-open play. Bringing a weapon to a fight is against the rules in the WWE why not the NHL?

    He could of tied him up, turtled or out skated that Goon until the cavalry showed up. I would be appalled if he is not suspended for 5+. Bringing your stick up even deliberately when someone is taking a run at you in open play is one thing and worthy of some discipline (like a penalty). Using you stick or skate as a weapon intentionally in non open play totally different. I would suspend him for 20. I suspect the league will not have the guts to do anything to TOs star. I was kicked out of a tournament for such behavior as a kid, what would young kids think now if Kessel gets away with it.

    Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kessel got a longer suspension than Scott. What Scott did wasn’t out of the ordinary at all, dropping the gloves and throwing a punch before the other player engages happens almost on a weekly basis, and players never get suspended for it.

    Of course, star players for the most part almost always get special treatment, so in all likelihood Scott will get 5 games, and Kessel none. However, this is the second time Kessel has used his stick as a weapon this preseason. IMO it is clearly intent to injure, and is more deserving of a suspension than Scott.

    The first Kessel slash: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgUzg6wI6dg @40 seconds

  87. RexLibris says:

    Watching this Scott/Kessel/Clarkson thing unfold has brought two things to my mind.

    One – I’m glad Andy Sutton has retired. Always struck me as a nice guy and I’m glad he’s out of this circus now with what health he has left.

    Two – I remember reading Dave Semenko’s Looking Out for Number One biography years ago. He talked about getting the tap on the shoulder to go beat someone’s brains in when he was finishing up his career with the Leafs. I think Brophy was coaching. Said it made him sick to his stomach and he decided then and there to retire. If someone nicknamed Cementhead and almost universally reviled as what was wrong with goons in the game can come to that conclusion why do we keep seeing this dog-and-pony show every couple of years?

    For the record, I think Semenko was more than a goon, but got pigeonholed because of where and when he played: BoA shaped how everyone viewed him.

    I agree with LT on Scott. The man is a wasted roster spot, but we don’t know if he got marching orders from his coach.

    Agree with LT on Clarkson, too. Big mistake and he’ll be canonized in the media for his “sacrifice” and how he stood up for teammates. Probably gets some face time with Cherry this Saturday.

    And Kessel? Heck, if Scott were coming at me looking for blood I’d wave a flashlight at him if I thought it’d deter the behemoth. Turn and skate away. If he grabs you, turtle and survive it knowing that the NHL will throw the book at him and his team. Make the Sabres the bad guys and score on the powerplay. Save the spearing for the scrum in front of the net when you hide it.

    And getting back to Gagner and Kassian, I said it last night. No team has made me a bigger believer in Hockey Karma than the Canucks. Kassian’s hit will come back to haunt them, sooner or later. Knowing the Canucks, probably sooner.

  88. Racki says:

    What’s the odds MacIntyre is an Oiler as of noon tomorrow? I know most will hate the idea though. But McKenzie and Spector saying the Oilers are hard after a “super heavyweight”, apparently.

    I’d be OK with it just for one game against Vancouver, since Big Mac ends careers. All that needs to be decided is which one.. who could he actually catch? :P

  89. bookje says:

    Dead Cat Bounce:
    Looks like quite a bun fight between Toronto and Buffalo.

    3rd period penalties:

    3RD PERIOD
    00:52BUFB. McNabbTripping– 2 min againstN. Kadri
    07:14TORJ. van RiemsdykInterference – Goalkeeper– 2 min againstR. Miller
    10:01TORJ. DevaneFighting– 5 min againstC. Tropp
    10:01BUFC. TroppFighting– 5 min againstJ. Devane
    10:01TORA. MacWilliamFighting– 5 min
    10:01TORT. BozakFighting– 5 min
    10:01TORD. ClarksonFighting– 5 min
    10:01TORJ. BernierFighting– 5 min
    10:01TORT. BrennanFighting– 5 min
    10:01BUFB. FlynnFighting– 5 min
    10:01BUFM. ZigomanisFighting– 5 min
    10:01BUFC. RuhwedelFighting– 5 min
    10:01BUFJ. ScottFighting– 5 min
    10:01BUFR. MillerFighting– 5 min
    10:01TORD. ClarksonLeaving player’s/penalty bench– 10 min
    10:01BUFD. BagnallFighting– 5 min
    10:01TORC. AshtonFighting– 5 min
    10:01BUFJ. ScottInstigator– 2 min againstP. Kessel
    10:01TORJ. BernierGoalie leave crease– 2 min againstR. Miller
    10:01BUFR. MillerGoalie leave crease– 2 min
    10:14BUFJ. ScottMisconduct– 10 min
    10:54BUFJ. ScottGame misconduct– 10 min againstP. Kessel
    11:22TORJ. LilesRoughing– 2 min againstC. Hodgson
    11:57TORC. AshtonMisconduct– 10 min
    12:22TORT. BozakMisconduct– 10 min
    12:33TORT. BrennanMisconduct– 10 min
    12:45TORA. MacWilliamMisconduct– 10 min
    13:07TORJ. BernierMisconduct– 10 min
    13:22TORD. ClarksonLeaving player’s/penalty bench– 10 min
    13:33BUFJ. ArmiaHooking– 2 min againstN. Kadri
    13:33BUFD. BagnallMisconduct– 10 min
    13:47BUFM. ZigomanisMisconduct– 10 min
    14:01BUFB. FlynnMisconduct– 10 min
    15:48TORJ. van RiemsdykRoughing– 2 min againstB. McNabb
    15:48BUFB. McNabbRoughing– 2 min againstJ. van Riemsdyk
    20:00BUFR. MillerGame misconduct– 10 min againstJ. Bernier

    WOW – look at all those major penalties! Given that fighting prevents dirty hits, I would bet that neither of these two teams experience so much as a body check for the rest of the year. Their skill plAyers will be free to play the game without concern.

    Do I have that right?

  90. wheatnoil says:

    Racki:
    What’s the odds MacIntyre is an Oiler as of noon tomorrow? I know most will hate the idea though. But McKenzie and Spector saying the Oilers are hard after a “super heavyweight”, apparently.

    I’d be okay with it if they put him in Eager/Brown’s spot on the 4th line, play him 4 minutes a night, and give the rest of his minutes to a double-shifting Yakupov. That might actually be a net positive!

  91. bookje says:

    iHockeyWpg:
    Video of Toronto Buffalo brouhaha

    http://t.co/af1gzeVECi

    Did anyone else think “this is just stupid” when watching that video? Why are the goalies fighting? Just play the game already. I admit, I would have been thrilled when I was 18, but now it just looks like WWE wrestling.

  92. Racki says:

    wheatnoil: I’d be okay with it if they put him in Eager/Brown’s spot on the 4th line, play him 4 minutes a night, and give the rest of his minutes to a double-shifting Yakupov. That might actually be a net positive!

    I would give him a couple shifts, and tell him to go out on the ice and tell people that he plans on crashing this plane.. WITH NO SURVIVORS!

    (seriously, I know this stuff solves nothing or deters anything.. it’s for my own sick pleasure in seeing the other team suffer a bit for once)

  93. Gret99zky says:

    After last nights Weise and Kassian shitshow and the Leafs and Sabres slash and brawl I think the league may actually do something before they lose all control.

    Christ, the season hasn’t even started yet.

    Send a message Shanahan. Otherwise the knuckledraggers are going to get all the endorsement money.

  94. Genjutsu says:

    One thing I would like to know is what the earlier conversation between Scott and Kessel consisted of. I heard reports from people at the game that old lefty said off side stuff to the big man.

    If that’s the case this is all on him. Scott is a giant. Would you taunt a pro wrestler on the street or out at the club? If you do you deserve to be hospitalized.

    Don’t taunt happy fun ball.

    Kessel just cost the Leafs a playoff spot. Silver lining it costs Carlyle his job and we are all rid of his incompetence.

  95. stevezie says:

    I have so much to say I am past the point of caring that no one will read it.

    I wouldn’t say I completely agree with any one person so far, but I think CO has it the closest:

    Colonel Obvious: I think Scott did the right thing. I also think Kessel did the right thing. If some giant man wants to fight me on the ice, swinging a stick at his legs is the least I would do. I would swing it at his head. I also kind of think Clarkson did the right thing.

    Phil Kessel- Has to get suspended, but who could condemn him? As Batman often said, “There is no such thing as a fair fight.” If someone who outweighs you by a 7th grader wants to fight, keep your stick. You’re stupid not to.
    He did the sort of thing commentors on this very blog were advocating earlier today. It’s not a Messier elbow, but he put a hard stick between himself and harm’s way and saved himself whatever Scott had in store for him (which may have been a harmless tackle, or it may have been missing teeth.)
    John Scott- Remember, the beautiful game of hockey doesn’t pay his bills, Darcy Regier does. Scott gets contracts to do the kinds of things several commentors on this very blog were advocating earlier today. He had to do it because it is his job.
    Should he be suspended? This is the only thing I am waivering on. He didn’t actually do anything very suspendible, but he might have if Kessel and Clarkson didn’ do suspendible things to stop him. Can you give a nobel prize for “attempted” chemistry?

    Colonel Obvious: It’s not like the Sabres accomplished anything here.

    They didn’t prevent the injury, but several people on here (including you) blame Carlyle for being the root of the problem. You’re right. So what the Sabres accomplished was telling Carlyle that the Buffalo Sabres will not hesitate to target his stars, not his goons, if he keeps his act up. Without Kessel his team will lose and he will get fired.

    Finally, David Clarkson. I find it rare that I strongly disagree with LT on anything, but I think you’re reading Clarkson wrong here. Again, his employer is not hockey, it is the Toronto Maple Leafs. It might seem like this suspension will cost him money, but I would argue that doing things like this is exactly why the Leafs considered him a billion dollar player in the first place.

    You can argue that they didn’t sign him to fight the Scotts of the world, and you would be right, but neither Orr nor Fraser was dressed for this game so he was the toughest they had. He saw the other team’s tough guy attacking his superstar and he did everything he could to prevent it.

    He is not beyond reproach- he did it clumsily after it looked like the threat may have already been neutralized, but who can say for sure Scott wouldn’t have gotten up and hit somebody? Preventing that is his job. Just like Pronger before him, for David Clarkson suspensions are just part of the cost of doing business. Remember when Eric Goddard jumped the bench to prevent Gilles from beating up his goalie? Stronger example of the same thing. If those guys didn’t do those things they wouldn’t be in the league at all. He did the right thing.

  96. stevezie says:

    Genjutsu: One thing I would like to know is what the earlier conversation between Scott and Kessel consisted of. I heard reports from people at the game that old lefty said off side stuff to the big man.

    According to Kessel he just said “I’m going to jump you”, and the whole thing was a reaction to the knockout that happened seconds before. I didn’t watch the game so I’m not sure of all the antecedents.

    The only part that makes no sense to me is who was he avenging? The Buffalo tweener who just got knocked out certainly appeared to have started the fight that injured him. What’s the message Scott is trying to send, if one of our guys wants to fight you you had better let him win?
    Plus it was nice of him to warn Kessel. Seriously, it borders on classy.

  97. Genjutsu says:

    stevezie,

    there was a dialog between the two going back a period. This is all on Randy IMO: letting his star line up again a clear goon in a preseason game that was getting out of hand.

    That’s stupid.

  98. stevezie says:

    VanOil,

    A few people have expressed this sentiment so sorry to pick on you, but you’re completely wrong.

    I read your point as being, “He should have done the rational thing.”

    Hockey works best when it is a game of emotion. Yes the ultimate goal is to outscore not outbruise the opposition, but frankly I see no difference between your criticism of the emotion displayed here and Don Cherry calling Yak a hotdog for his powerslide.

    This is a game and they are in the middle of it. Cut them some slack for getting caught up in it. It wasn’t just the Kessel spear, several players on the ice looked furious they weren’t able to keep fighting. Just like Yak and the slide, there was clearly a lot of emotion in the game to this point and these guys who got to the to where they are because of their intense competitive nature let those emotions make some decisions for them. As they must.

    Yes it is more rational to just run away from Scott, but that is… unbecoming.

    In the larger sense it is very logical to sucker guys into fighting you and then turtle, or to dive, or to do everything the Canucks are hated for doing; it’s all very effective. Max Lapierre is one of the most logical players in the league.

    Remember though, the Oilers are not playing for my survival, they are playing for my entertainment. I want honour in the game. I demandemotion in the game. I want to like my team- and I hate the Canucks. We all do!

    Bernier might have hurt his hand? His friends were in a fight, he felt the need to join them. I cannot criticize this personal decision. Hell I applaud it. Forget your hand for a second, think with your heart! This is a game!

    Where’s the line? Well, that’s what we make rules for. So the players don’t have to decide in the middle of hell breaking lose how far is too far. Players who lack the capacity to remember the rules even as they are being emotional don’t belong in the league. Rule makers who can’t figure out where to put the rules should be fired. They’re all big boys getting paid big bucks.

  99. stevezie says:

    Genjutsu,

    Yeah Randy said he lined up his weakest line on purpose to try and diffuse the violence in the air.

    This is so out of character I can’t believe it.

    I’ve already written to much so I won’t outline the various reasons this matchup didn’t make sense, but there are a lot of reasons. In a preseason game? What was he thinking?

    ***Just realized I forgot to close my bolding up there. I mean to emphasize “started the fight that injured him” and just let it ride. Too late to fix it. I’ll shut up now.

  100. Numenius says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: THe Oilers will have exactly the same problem.

    How do you figure that? It’s a possibility but not an inevitability as with Pittsburgh. The Oilers are paying no one 9.5 million per year for the next 8 years.

  101. Oilanderp says:

    Man, I love hockey!

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