PENTICTON!

This is Penticton. It’s beautiful, about twice the size it was when I was a kid and we’d head up there from the lower mainland on holidays. This was the 60s and we lived in Haney BC (actually Whonnock, in Maple Ridge) and my Dad (in the great tradition of my friend Pat from BDHS) loved to make good time. This involved getting up early (it was actually the middle of the night) and pulling out of the driveway before 5am. Mom and Dad would throw my brother and I into the back seat (this was the 60s–there were no car seats and the seat belts weren’t in sight either) throw on the headlights and rip out of the driveway in a ’55 Flathead Ford.

Did I ever tell you the story of our tent? When I was little, we went camping a lot and Dad had this big tent with holes that he’d patched (he said it was from the war and it was green, but I have no idea). One summer my Mom announced this was the last time she was camping in “this Godforsaken thing” because of leaks. By the following spring, my Dad didn’t have a new tent but had constructed “the box”. Imagine the box below that could sleep 4 people, had a lock on the inside and (according to my Mom) looked like a ‘family coffin.”

box111

The wood was cheaper and the holes were smaller, and when my brother locked me in (“accidentally, Mom!”) my Mom refused to sleep in it. We camped for just one night in Penticton with the ‘family coffin’ containing only me, my brother and my Dad. Mom slept in the car, woke us up early, made my Dad put the coffin on the top of the car and we drove back to Haney, same day.

One final note: my brother and I LOVED that thing. We begged Dad to put it in the carport but he was mad at Mom so tore it apart. Damn. Haven’t thought about that in years, but it was a blast. Thanks, Dad, for being so bloody cool. And thanks Mom, for making sure we lived to tell the story.

logans-jenny-267x300

You know the rookie roster (if not, here) so I’m going to give you the name of the top 5 ‘players to watch’ this weekend.

  • #5 Marco Roy: Interesting offensive prospect, love his resume
  • #4 Martin Marincin: How close is he to Klefbom?
  • #3 Greg Chase: Can he post offensive numbers to match the edgy play?
  • #2 Oscar Klefbom: Is he ready?
  • #1 Darnell Nurse: How tough is he? How far behind Klefbom and Marincin?

It’s going to be a blast to see Oilers colors on that Penticton ice. No lawyers, no idiotic press conferences, only the game. The beautiful game. Tonight!

The more I think about the MacT-Hemsky press conference last night, the more I believe it was done as a kindness and to protect. “Steve Smith” wrote last night “I think the press conference was about MacT’s empathy, more than anything else. Who knows better than him the value of a public declaration from the boss that you’re not going anywhere?” I do think the Oildrop have been protective of him with the media over the years.  One imagines there’s a concern about making a bad thing worse, and the “did you sell your house?” question yesterday suggests the Oilers are perhaps right to have a veteran hand alongside when the mics are live.

Either way, a day later I remain thrilled by the Hemsky return, and delighted by the MacT return. If they can get Stanley to come back, I’ll consider it the best of times.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

logan's run

Fun show on the way this morning, there’s a fluidity to the guest list but lots of interesting banter. Scheduled to appear:

  • Spencer Smitheman will help guide us through the Tour of Alberta for day three. Peter Sagan has been the big story but there’s a lot of interesting things happening in the event.
  • Ryan Anderson, a competitor in the Tour of Alberta and we’ll do our best to get him on this morning (scheduling is going to be tight).
  • Michael Parkatti, Boys on the Bus. We’ll talk about the Marchant OT game, Hemsky and what we might see in TC.
  • Scott Cullen from tsn. We’ll talk NHL scoring, CFL and NFL.

Lowetide_ on twitter or 10-1260 via text. Hope you can tune in!

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99 Responses to "PENTICTON!"

  1. mumbai max says:

    Love the tent story. I lived in Websters Corners in a GVRD cabin (shack) once. Back in the day. I think that was officially Whonnock.

    I have a similar history with tenting trips except ours left the driveway in a black Comet wagon. It was dark though, and each trip involved rain, flies, mosquitoes, an omnipresent 8 mm movie camera and the very occasional unlucky trout.

    Let’s drop that puck! Up at 6 am for the game!

  2. BlacqueJacque says:

    There’s a great Karma train coming to town, an ill wind, and as someone who’s superstitious about nothing in life except hockey, I get the feeling that while Kevin Lowe is stinking up Edmonton, if Brian Burke is in Calgary, we just might not enjoy the results.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=431209

    I really wish they’d had the barn fight, with the “loser resigns his job” stakes, and Lowe had lost.

  3. Lowetide says:

    This is great news, because there’s no way Burke leaves this team in better condition than he found it, that’s not his style. I think we’ll see an aggressive attempt to upgrade this roster (signing free agents, trading future picks for Kadri) and the like.

    The one thing I believe he absolutely will do is find a goalie.

  4. BlacqueJacque says:

    Lowetide,

    How many Cups does Burke have as GM? How many times have his teams made the playoffs?

    vs Lowe?

    And that Kessel trade doesn’t look nearly as bad now. Indeed, one could argue that Burke won it.

    I think Burke has proven himself to be one of only a few GMs around who can build a contending team without abusing the draft in the salary cap era. Him, Chiarelli, Wilson, and Holmgren (when Snyder isn’t meddling).

  5. bookje says:

    This is great news because my hate for the flames was starting to fade and Was turning to pity. It’s all good now though!

  6. Numenius says:

    Katz should join the bandwagon and find a proper replacement for Lowe.

  7. bookje says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Lowetide,

    How many Cups does Burke have as GM?How many times have his teams made the playoffs?

    vs Lowe?

    And that Kessel trade doesn’t look nearly as bad now.Indeed, one could argue that Burke won it.

    There are two factors at play here the first is how good of a GM has he been and the second is, is he an asshole?

    I agree that the first is at least debatable.

  8. Lowetide says:

    BJ: I can’t agree on the Kessel trade, no way that’s equal value for Toronto on that deal. Burke’s strengths (college signings, aggressive pursuit of talent, willingness to take risks) all have their place, but the smart play for Calgary is to develop players properly.

    They’ll be better this year because of him, but the long term cost could be insane.

  9. Lois Lowe says:

    Burke was gifted all of Bryan Murray’s work in Anaheim though he did bring in CFP to seal that cup win. I’d say that one was a wash.

  10. BlacqueJacque says:

    bookje: There are two factors at play here the first is how good of a GM has he been and the second is, is he an asshole?

    I agree that the first is at least debatable.

    In Burke’s defense – and I do defend him a fair bit here – he never told anyone that they were a fourth-rate fan because they didn’t have season tickets. Because it’s not like:

    a). Many Oilers fans work out of town and season tickets don’t make sense (in my case)
    b). There isn’t a thousands-long waiting list for season tickets of people willing to watch the loser teams Lowe has built

    So you know… I think Lowe is a clear winner in the bigger asshole department, and a clear loser in the “build a team” department.

  11. Jordan says:

    bookje: There are two factors at play here the first is how good of a GM has he been and the second is, is he an asshole?

    I agree that the first is at least debatable.

    You’ve got it all wrong Bookje. You can debate whether he’s an asshole all day. It’s just the more you debate it, the more you sound like Brian Burke.

  12. BlacqueJacque says:

    Lowetide:
    BJ: I can’t agree on the Kessel trade, no way that’s equal value for Toronto on that deal. Burke’s strengths (college signings, aggressive pursuit of talent, willingness to take risks) all have their place, but the smart play for Calgary is to develop players properly.

    They’ll be better this year because of him, but the long term cost could be insane.

    Oddly enough, I’m more familiar with the ownership mindset in Calgary than Edmonton because I spend so much time trolling Calgary Puck but…

    Murray Edwards, the douchebag union-hating temporary-foreign-worker-program-abusing prick from CNRL and majority owner of the Flames, doesn’t want to rebuild. Jay Feaster is basically hiring his replacement and arguably moving back up the food chain into a Lowe-esque supervisory role. Burke is clearly much more accomplished at rebuilding through signings and trades than Feaster (or almost anyone else in the league).

    So yeah, Calgary is going to avoid a rebuild, but if you’re going to do that, Burke’s the man for the job.

  13. BlacqueJacque says:

    Lois Lowe:
    Burke was gifted all of Bryan Murray’s work in Anaheim though he did bring in CFP to seal that cup win. I’d say that one was a wash.

    True, but Burke also built several great Vancouver teams.

    Now I agree with LT that if I were Calgary, i’d do the safe bet and rebuild through the draft, but I’m not even sure the “safe bet” is the right bet in this case. If Calgary rebuilds, the odds of getting three first-overalls are extremely slim, especially with the new draft lottery rules. They won’t be able to compete on top-end talent with Hall, Nuge, and Yak.

    Given that, and given the mindset of Calgary’s ownership, Burke is the best bet by a country mile.

  14. Lois Lowe says:

    How many years did it take him to get Toronto into the playoffs again?

  15. wordbird says:

    Far too early in the day to wrap my ahead around the connection between Jessica 6 and rookie camp. :P

    Still, what could be finer than the start of fall, hockey season and Jenny Agutter?

  16. bookje says:

    BlacqueJacque: In Burke’s defense – and I do defend him a fair bit here – he never told anyone that they were a fourth-rate fan because they didn’t have season tickets.Because it’s not like:

    a).Many Oilers fans work out of town and season tickets don’t make sense (in my case)
    b).There isn’t a thousands-long waiting list for season tickets of people willing to watch the loser teams Lowe has built

    So you know… I think Lowe is a clear winner in the bigger asshole department, and a clear loser in the “build a team” department.

    Lowe never called non-season ticket holders fourth rate fans, what he said was that they make a lot of effort to engage with their season ticket holders. He did say it somewhat inarticulately and he also made himself look bad when he went on his ’6 cups’ thing. So, its fine if you think he is an asshole, I don’t.

    As per the Barn fight, I think I would bet on the former NHLer over the lawyer, that may not be beneficial in the hockey management side of things, but in barnfights, I think its probably pretty important.

    While Lowe clearly comes across as arrogant (6 cups), I think that Burke would win the NHL’s most arrogant poll by a long shot. That arrogance makes him easy to dislike – that he is Flame makes it even easier.

    Anyway, can someone let Calgary know that Mike Keenan is available as a coach. That would be perfect.

  17. RexLibris says:

    As I said yesterday when I first heard of this Burke/Calgary rumour: the only question I have is how he and Feaster will timeshare the microphone during press conferences.

    Feaster and Weisbrod are noted as thinking they are the smartest men in the room. Throw Burke into that mix and this management team has an ego that knows no limits.

    I guess with Burke at the helm we can put aside any ideas of the Flames rebuilding over the course of three to four years. Most fans I have read from, and some of the contributors in the blogosphere, dread his coming to the team.

    Burke is a great horse trader, but so many of his other moves are out of sync with the direction of the league that one wonders how he keeps finding jobs.

  18. BlacqueJacque says:

    Lois Lowe:
    How many years did it take him to get Toronto into the playoffs again?

    How many years did it take Lowe to get Edmonton back in the playoffs again… oooh… burn. It hasn’t happened yet. Shit, I just burned myself trying to win Super Internet Argument Points. Dammit.

    Bookje

    Bookje, Lowe’s comments were far worse than you’re making them out to be. Bad enough that the Internet exploded in his face and he had to go into hiding after releasing a PR-edited statement. His complete disconnect from his responsibility in the situation, his arrogance and ignorance in addressing the media and the fans in that press conference were bad enough that Edmonton’s Oilers-advertising-budget-dependent media were calling him on it. That includes broke-as-hell Sportsnet and the Edmonton Journal, you know, the organization from the dying newspaper industry.

    Even OilersNation declared Lowe’s comments “breathtakingly stupid”.

    Remember, Lowe is also bestest buddies with the asshole owner who used Gretzky to try to imply a threat to move the Oilers to Seattle so that he wouldn’t have to pay for the scammy arena that will never, ever revive downtown. Because if arenas revived downtowns, you couldn’t buy a house in Detroit for $15,000, or one in KC for $80,000, or a hundred other examples of “we should have used this public money to repave the streets rather than patch potholes at the same time as raising property taxes 6% per year, every year, for a decade”.

  19. bookje says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    ” We have two types of fans: we have paying customers and we have people that watch the game that we still care about but certainly the people that go to the games and support we spend a lot of time talking to them, delivering our message.”

    Ok, reading comprehension lesson. Paying fans would include those who attend games, but who are not season ticket holders. Second – he notes that they still care about other fans, but they spend a lot of time talking to the paying customers and delivering their message. So, what you and others have done is take the phrase “Two types of fans” and construed it into some “non season ticket holders don’t matter to us” message. Your reference of “The internet” as a source of rabid response to Lowe’s comments does not impress me. I don’t consider the intellect of “the internet” to be particularly impressive. In any case, his press conference was terrible and demonstrated that he should probably not be in front of any mics. However, that does not give you or the rest of “the internet” the right to twist what he said about fans.

  20. Woodguy says:

    Imagine the box below that could sleep 4 people, had a lock on the inside and (according to my Mom) looked like a ‘family coffin.”

    That’s amazing!

    What kind of wood did he use?

    Solid or plywood.

    I’m speechless.

    I have no speech.

  21. Numenius says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    A downtown arena does not guarantee revitalization, but it does help. Winnipeg is a good case in point.

  22. BlacqueJacque says:

    bookje,

    I’ll concede the point, but even dividing fans into those who go to games and those who don’t, it’s not a brilliant strategy. It’s not as if TV revenue, merchandising, etc. don’t matter to a team’s bottom line. You’re right when you say he shouldn’t be in front of a mic too much.

  23. GATO BANDIDO says:

    Since Hemsky just turned 30 and he’s still around he must have “renewed.”

  24. Woodguy says:

    Burke is very good at trading pro players for pro player/prospects.

    As long as draft picks aren’t involved, he’s pretty damn good at trading players.

    MIght have the best track record in the NHL in terms of winning the deal (luckily he was the first to discover that Sutter had gone insane and acted on it)

    Past that, his track record is spotty both on drafting, trading draft picks and signing pro UFAa.

  25. BlacqueJacque says:

    Numenius:
    BlacqueJacque,

    A downtown arena does not guarantee revitalization, but it does help. Winnipeg is a good case in point.

    I wish I could agree, but Canada’s resource industry boom at the same time as rising gas prices has more to do with the increasing affluence in some downtowns than anything else. The number of staggering failures of “downtown revitalization with an arena” efforts (Baltimore, Detroit, KC – all recent, not including older failures like San Diego, LA, New Orleans, Milwaukee, Miami, Glendale, Buffalo and more) outweighs the successes (Winnipeg, Denver – literally the only two) that it’s almost inarguable that the successes had their roots in other causes like rising gas prices, long commute times, etc. The area around the Staples Center, in downtown LA, was a dead, crack-dealing slum as late as 2002, and it remained so until gas passed $3/gallon in America.

    Edmonton’s downtown has been livening up for a good 10 years now, but I’m sure that franchise owners trying to scam other cities will use the Edmonton arena as an example of why, even though the arena doesn’t even exist yet.

    There are a number of bad pro-arena arguments. Revitalization being one, but how about increased commerce? Well, no, it’s not like people will have any more money to spend. They might spend it downtown as opposed to Southgate or West Ed or North Common, but that’s just money not going to Southgate, West Ed, or North Common. I don’t know if you lived in Edmonton that long ago, but when West Edmonton Mall opened, it killed downtown. Then the city realized “oh shit, a decaying downtown core is bad”, so it paid hundreds of millions to the same developers to build the Eaton Centre, but by then everyone had switched to West Ed since Whitemud had opened.

    There was a study released by the U of A which showed absolutely zero causation *and* correlation between sports strikes (including single-team cities, like Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver) and economic activity, further reinforcing the argument that sports franchises, like casinos, are an extractive business and not a productive industry. They don’t create, they divert.

  26. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy,

    Burke’s strength has always been in victimizing weak or vulnerable GMs. But here’s the conundrum: what does it mean when he ends up working with one of the NHL’s weakest GMs in Feaster?

    There are so many storylines and possibilities: how long before the first scribe asks the “Edmonton-Rebuild-Kevin Lowe” question in the pc? Does he push for a trade for Kadri? How do you build from the net out on a team with nothing but question marks in goal and a patchwork defense with little or no blueline prospects? Etc, etc.

    This is going to be fascinating to watch.

  27. Hammers says:

    LT your Penticton story is great . In the early 70′s I would pack our kids ( now in there 40′s) in the car leave Edmonton about 8pm,drive all night & arrive early . The kids then wanted to hit the beach . We had a canvas tent , 3 sections. The laugh was from listening to other campers not believing 6 people plus all required goodies came out . 1 camper said he wished he would be there when we left as he couldn’t believe everthing that came out and how I would get it back in . Re the tournament I’m thinking goals may need to come from our “D” that looks to be the strength this year. Burke who cares.

  28. BlacqueJacque says:

    RexLibris,

    Sports is about competition.

    Of course the strong take advantage of the weak. Burke offered better (apparent) deals to people in need of a trade than 28 other GMs. You’re making that sound like a character flaw.

  29. oilersfan says:

    I actually am astounded as how good some of the moves Burke has made.

    I think he made the two best moves by an NHL GM in the last 5 years.
    1) signing Francois Beauchemin as a UFA, then trading him 2 years later for Lupul and Jake Gardiner

    2) trading three third tier players in Hagman, White and Stajan for a top pairing dman in Phaneuf.

    He also made very astute moves bringing in Franzon for nothing but taking on a bad contract

    For sure, long term the Kessel trade was bad but 4 years in there is no arguing he won the first two and the fourth year. yes the third year was a tie and the next 5 years will be a loss as Hamilton matures but 4 years of winning a trade is pretty good if that is what your window is.

    He makes far more good moves than bad moves, imo.

    what were the bad ones? signing Komisarek? the Kessel trade? I would say the two outstanding movees above outweigh those two by a wide margin.

    also, getting both sedins in 1999 was brilliant, and getting Pronger for all those magic beans was an excellent move as well.

    he seems like a tough guy to have to work with every day but that team he built in Toronto did make the playoffs and all the best players were brought in by him.

  30. Zipdot says:

    Burke quotes:
    “Irish people are vindictive and ill tempered”
    Penner’s offer sheet was “a gutless move” and an “act of desperation” made by a GM “desperate to keep his job”
    “If I had run my team into the sewer like that I wouldn’t throw a grenade at the other 29 teams and my own indirectly.”

    Lowe quotes:
    Burke is a “media junkie”, a “moron”, and he “destroyed the Vancouver Canucks”
    “He’s an underachieving wanna-be in terms of success in the NHL.”

  31. Zipdot says:

    As an aside, Burke and Lowe patched things up after Burke’s son Brendan died. Brendan had asked Burke to restore his friendship with Lowe before he died. So it’s all water under the bridge now.

  32. wheatnoil says:

    From a purely entertainment point of view, Burke landing in Calgary is awesome! Good Battle of Alberta fun!

    Speaking of which, the rookie tournament is streaming the Oilers website right? Today is Calgary and Edmonton. Which means, in addition to the Edmonton prospects I’m interested in seeing, we get to catch a glimpse of Monahan. Should be fun!

  33. bendelson says:

    LT. Great post re: family camping adventures. I would include an interesting or fun story of my own but what the hell can compete with literally packing the family into a wooden box for the night? Absolutely fantastic.

  34. justDOit says:

    LT: Hilarious camping coffin story! Was it designed by Karl Farbman?

  35. НИНТЕНДО⁶⁴ says:

    “Who knows better than him the value of a public declaration from the boss that you’re not going anywhere?”

    So MacT is saying 83 may be gone in 2 weeks?

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=275142

  36. Soup Fascist says:

    BlacqueJacque: I wish I could agree, but Canada’s resource industry boom at the same time as rising gas prices has more to do with the increasing affluence in some downtowns than anything else.The number of staggering failures of “downtown revitalization with an arena” efforts (Baltimore, Detroit, KC – all recent, not including older failures like San Diego, LA, New Orleans, Milwaukee, Miami, Glendale, Buffalo and more) outweighs the successes (Winnipeg, Denver – literally the only two) that it’s almost inarguable that the successes had their roots in other causes like rising gas prices, long commute times, etc.The area around the Staples Center, in downtown LA, was a dead, crack-dealing slum as late as 2002, and it remained so until gas passed $3/gallon in America.

    Edmonton’s downtown has been livening up for a good 10 years now, but I’m sure that franchise owners trying to scam other cities will use the Edmonton arena as an example of why, even though the arena doesn’t even exist yet.

    There are a number of bad pro-arena arguments.Revitalization being one, but how about increased commerce?Well, no, it’s not like people will have any more money to spend.They might spend it downtown as opposed to Southgate or West Ed or North Common, but that’s just money not going to Southgate, West Ed, or North Common.I don’t know if you lived in Edmonton that long ago, but when West Edmonton Mall opened, it killed downtown.Then the city realized “oh shit, a decaying downtown core is bad”, so it paid hundreds of millions to the same developers to build the Eaton Centre, but by then everyone had switched to West Ed since Whitemud had opened.

    There was a study released by the U of A which showed absolutely zero causation *and* correlation between sports strikes (including single-team cities, like Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver) and economic activity, further reinforcing the argument that sports franchises, like casinos, are an extractive business and not a productive industry.They don’t create, they divert.

    Blacque Jacque,
    I think there are a few other “success” stories you are forgetting about. Columbus is a model that has been held up as a beneficial project to the state of their downtown core. I can personally tell you Staples Center totally started the revitalization of the area just south of downtown L.A. I have been to the area before and after Staples was built. With Staples Center as it’s centerpiece, LA Live has morphed from what was a very bad part of town into a vibrant epicenter of entertainment including two high end hotels, the Nokia Theatre and many dining / entertainment options. As an occasional visitor, I drop way more money in Los Angeles than I did a decade ago.

  37. Ribs says:

    The family coffin. Hahaha, damn. That’s great stuff.

    Burke in Calgary? Perfect. Bring on the truculence/bad hockey players!

  38. Ribs says:

    Lines per Stauffer tweets….

    Roy-Miller-Kessy
    Abney-Ewanyk-Houck
    Baddock-Schaber-Bilckie
    Khaira-Chase-Fyten

    Nurse-Klefbom
    Gernat-Musil
    Davidson-Leach
    Marincin-Betker

    Bunz (vs Brossoit)

  39. Lucinius says:

    Soup Fascist,

    The only problem with your argument is that this is Edmonton. Our city council doesn’t do things smart, well, or timely. The downtown arena will help.. until the council fucks things up. Probably put a jail next to it, or something.

    Honestly, though, Edmonton could seriously use a consolidated area with museums, galleries and theaters. One of the big problems the aforementioned have here in Edmonton is lack of attendance, and I believe a big part of that is how far apart they all are; if you want to go to museums and such you have to make a decision, before-hand, about which one you will go to — and once there the average family/person is unlikely to spend all that long there due to the small selection of things they find appealing.

    If the city worked to consolidate these venues, you could make a day of hitting them, once after the other to keep both yourself and the kids engaged and interested. You know, something like ‘bored of dinosaurs now? Let’s go see planes and space stuff!’ and be able to actually do so without a lot of travel inbetween.

  40. Soup Fascist says:

    Lucinius,

    I am the last one to defend the long-term thinking record of politicians in general and certainly not certain members of this council. I will say however, Mayor Mandel has been the mest mayor I can remember and I am getting old. But I digress …

    I suppose you have to start somewhere and I think the arena is a good cornerstone. But somehow the topic at hand has swung back to the old arena debate and that is not good. So, …..

    Oilers look to be putting it a fairly tough lineup (less Moroz) should be a few dust ups. Oilers defence look great, although all lefties from what I can see. Add an absent Dillon Simpson to the lefty brigade. At some point that will be problematic. But who cares. Hockey is back, baby!

  41. G Money says:

    Burke in Calgary.

    Great entertainment value in Lowe vs Burke once more.

    Burke is not as good as some believe him to be (his one and only Stanley Cup came from a team built by Murray and completed by the CFP trade – a move engineered far more by CFP’s assholeness and Lowe’s desperation than any brilliance on Burke’s part).

    Burke is not as bad as some believe him to be. He has made many astute trades, he’s willing to be truly bold (e.g. the moves to get #1 and #2 picks and draft both Sedins), and his teams overall are generally pretty good.

    I’m not so sure how that will work out in a rebuilding situation with the Flames, unless Burke can somehow package picks, unproven prospects, and Iginla’s jock for real hockey players. Trying to improve a rebuilding team in the short-term without a substantial base of drafted talent is a recipe for long-term mediocrity.

    As much as he comes across as an asshole, I saw a long interview with him a while back and I respect Burke’s dedication to the community in which he resides. A blustering buffoon at times, but seems to have a good heart.

  42. ashley says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    Murray Edwards is a friend of ours. He is a perfect gentleman, through and through. He’s a prairie kid, growing up in Saskatoon. He would fit in well around here.

    He rolled the dice on an oil business, and everything came up boxcars. Still, he would give the shirt off his back to any human being in need, even if that was all he had.

    I’ve never heard anyone say things like that about Murray.

  43. oliveoilers says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u28I6faWuU

    Found this on another site. You know the one. Anyhoo, pretty funny all the same.

  44. Numenius says:

    Ribs:
    Lines per Stauffer tweets….

    Roy-Miller-Kessy
    Abney-Ewanyk-Houck
    Baddock-Schaber-Bilckie
    Khaira-Chase-Fyten

    Nurse-Klefbom
    Gernat-Musil
    Davidson-Leach
    Marincin-Betker

    Bunz (vs Brossoit)

    Such a joy to have the centers in the right place!!!! :)

    That first line looks dangerous, but the rest, not so sure. Abney on the second line?

    The D will really be a force to be reckoned with.

  45. russ99 says:

    Not making a big deal of the Burke thingy, he’s been kicked upstairs, and the GM makes all the roster moves.

    But if it will add to the entertainment value, maybe Burke and Lowe can box for charity in between periods of the first Oilers-Flames game, with MacT vs. Harvey the hound as the undercard.

    Kind of bummed that Khaira didn’t get on the first line tonight, as he seems the most salvagable of Tambellini’s Lucic-wannabes.

    Other than Miller, Roy and Khaira the rest of the forward roster reads goon, tough guy, career AHL/ECHL player.

    Still gonna watch. :)

  46. regwald says:

    oilersfan:
    I actually am astounded as how good some of the moves Burke has made.

    I think he made the two best moves by an NHL GM in the last 5 years.
    1) signing Francois Beauchemin as a UFA, then trading him 2 years later for Lupul and Jake Gardiner

    2) trading three third tier players in Hagman, White and Stajan for a top pairing dman in Phaneuf.

    He also made very astute moves bringing in Franzon for nothing but taking on a bad contract

    For sure, long term the Kessel trade was bad but 4 years in there is no arguing he won the first two and the fourth year. yes the third year was a tie and the next 5 years will be a loss as Hamilton matures but 4 years of winning a trade is pretty good if that is what your window is.

    He makes far more good moves than bad moves, imo.

    what were the bad ones? signing Komisarek? the Kessel trade? I would say the two outstanding movees above outweigh those two by a wide margin.

    also, getting both sedins in 1999 was brilliant, and getting Pronger for all those magic beans was an excellent move as well.

    he seems like a tough guy to have to work with every day but that team he built in Toronto did make the playoffs and all the best players were brought in by him.

    Kessel is a good player and has helped the Leafs, the failure here was the cost. He didn’t have to pay what he did via trade. Dropping an offer sheet would have given him the player for the same contract, but less cost.

    it’s like walking into a liquor store and asking what the cost of a good bottle of scotch is and the guy says $80. You respond will you take $100 for it ? why overpay ?

    My personal preference as a fan would be to keep the draft picks and build that way. He’s a risk taker, plain and simple.

  47. In the Grease says:

    Numenius,

    This looks like the official line-up sheet tweeted by the Oilers, and makes more sense with Khaira on the second line, and at center, and of course only 3 D pairs…

    Kessy-Miller-Roy
    Fyten-Khaira-Chase
    Houck-Ewanyk-Abney
    Baddock-Schaber-Bilcke

    Kelfbom-Nurse
    Betker-Marincin
    Gernat-Musil

    Bunz
    Cadonette

    Also, if you look at this sheet, you can see height and weight listed I believe accurately… some players are significantly heavier than listed on the Oilers site (good news) a few a bit lighter…

    eg. Khaira 6’3″, 214 ; Kessey 6’3″ 219 ; Miller 5’10″ 176

    With all the talk about height and weight, I find this very interesting, and a bit frustrating that the updated stats are near impossible to find. People always argue about size, but it often seems based on outdated info.

  48. justDOit says:

    BB has proven that he’s a good judge of talent, and that he’s willing to do anything – not matter how bold – to improve his team. Well, except for RFA offer sheets, because they’re bad… Mkay?

    So now the big question is, how long until Feaster is replaced by the guy he just hired? I’m guessing no later than the December break. ??

  49. BlacqueJacque says:

    ashley,

    A person’s limited individual generosity is irrelevant. Unless you’re giving away all your billions like Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, it’s all for show.

    I assume you haven’t worked for CNRL or at CNRL Horizon.

    I have worked minimum wage jobs. I’ve worked cash jobs for less than minimum wage. I’ve worked temp, I’ve even done internships. I’ve been seriously injured at work through the fault of the employer (improper equipment, once, and bad training/policy, the other time). I’d go back to all those places before CNRL.

    You have no idea what it’s like to try and set up instruments on a vessel welded by Chinese workers who obviously didn’t know what they were doing (this was just weeks before a similar vessel collapsed on the other side of Horizon). Or to go up on scaffolding put up by Filipinos more used to working with bamboo than aluminum pipe. To walk, daily, under freaking stalactites of ice hanging off pipe racks on your way out of the morning meeting during the spring thaw. When will they fall? Because fall they did. Nobody cared to knock them down, irregardless of how many times we brought it up at safety meetings. To not be able to communicate with 50% of the people there because they come from non-English speaking countries. “HEY ASSHOLE, STOP DROPPING WRENCHES” doesn’t mean a whole lot to somebody who doesn’t understand a word you said, but he’s there because he’s 15% cheaper than the next guy.

    Or the humiliations heaped upon me, daily. Wear a fall arrest harness all the time, just because you may or may not go up on scaffolding that may or may not be tagged – oh it’s 35 degrees, you’re already in coveralls, and now you can’t have any air circulation because the harness cuts it off? Too bad, suck it up. Getting in trouble and almost getting my company kicked off site because I took a late lunch after fixing faulty heat trace that was a priority fix. Forced to pretend to work, walking around with a 3-month old print, pointing at non-existent things in the high line just because your actual work was delayed for lack of materials, or a delayed permit, or because the Chinese workers spent 6 weeks putting up a structure assembled in Korea and damaged in shipping across the Pacific, a process that should have taken six days.

    All so that Richie Rich can have a few more million dollars in his account.

    Yeah, he’ll make a big show of his generosity, but so do other scumbags. Show up, give away a relative pittance, make sure the media is there, get the headline, and get out and enjoy the press.

    So please, tell me what a good guy Murray is.

  50. DeadmanWaking says:

    BlacqueJacque: There was a study released by the U of A which showed absolutely zero causation *and* correlation between sports strikes (including single-team cities, like Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver) and economic activity, further reinforcing the argument that sports franchises, like casinos, are an extractive business and not a productive industry. They don’t create, they divert.

    The time to beat this to death was during Bettman’s blockade. In the vast majority of situations if one forced people to operate under the rule that they could only act where there was direct evidence that the action would lead to positive outcome, failure would be almost certainly guaranteed. There’s a rather enormous gap in real life between the supporting evidence we would like to have and the decisions we can’t avoid. If you get annoyed every time some loud mouth drums up the will to act by grotesquely exaggerating the knowable outcome, you’ll go through life trailing a personal cloud of vitriol that will make Pig-Pen green with envy.

    Eighteen months ago I decided to lose some weight. Lost ten pounds in six months, and it’s been flat (the number, not my stomach) ever since. I count that as two victories. Since the Oilers entered the fallow years, there haven’t been many years where my butter blanket stood pat (this just in, Texas has replaced the bathroom scale with a coefficient of sphericity; when you surpass 0.9999 they pump in some helium and send you off to your final resting place warming the vastness of interstellar space).

    The problem with the counterfactual is that it’s all too easy to compare what does happen against a better plan there was no feasible political will to follow. Compared to switching to a vegetarian diet, my weight loss program sucked. Stupid comparison. Like, was I going to do that in the first place? Meeeaaaaat.

    Nothing substantial has changed about the economics of the arena deal since the lockout. Why now? Once you start pinching this whole thing too hard, you’re left asking whether the whole of major professional sports isn’t a diversion of time and energy better invested elsewhere.

    I defy you to identify anything revitalized by A-Rod’s $350m career earnings other than a group of socially maladjusted synthetic chemists with gambling additions gone sour who are now holed up in some underground Mexican laboratory in a desperate bid to preserve their kneecaps.

    The arena is not a magic bullet. Few things are. Detroit shouldn’t even be in this conversation. Detroit overbuilt every form of civic infrastructure after its economic engine skipped town. I’m actually halfway through Glaeser on Cities right now. It’s not my favorite episode by far. The guest way oversells our ability to shake down the primary beneficiaries of a large capital project. The only people who benefit from a fancy bridge are those who drive over it any pay the bridge toll? No, a huge contingent of secondary beneficiaries are still riding free.

    One of the reasons I’m not a libertarian is that I tend to view stakeholder interests as a diffuse cloud. I’ve never fallen for the syllogism that because markets work so unbelievably well in the best case that we should therefore adopt markets as the universal hammer. I mean, it’s useful to think of an electron as being a point particle whenever possible. The real nature of an electron just makes your brain hurt. Once you squeeze on it, however, only brain-hurt arrives at the correct answer. What lead to 2008? Trying to pretend that derivatives couldn’t possibly make our brains hurt. A supremely interesting supposition, if you ask me. Jeopardy category: things that appeared to be designed with the sole purpose of making our brains hurt. Likely answers: derivatives, electrons, the universe, women.

    I think you’re straying here into using a fictional view of the possible to impeach the actual. My view is that the actual is easy enough to impeach without harming any crash-test straw men, but then some news networks persist in the view that a million straw men can’t be wrong, so it now seems to be an official additive to the municipal water supply, more’s the pity.

  51. In the Grease says:

    Klefbom 6’3″ 213 ; Gernat 6’4″ 197 ; Marincin 6’5″ 196 ; Nurse 6′ 3″ 190 ….

    Recent articles about Klefbom touting his size at 6’3″ 201 – but if this line-up sheet is true, 12 more lbs of muscle is significant.

  52. Colonel Obvious says:

    Having just lived through the Tambellini era in which our GM didn’t add a single real player the entire time he was here the list of Burke moves is pretty impressive.

    Even the Seguin move was pretty good. It took a lot of bad luck to turn out the way it did. For instance, if Toronto had played just slightly better it could have been Gudbranson and the Hamilton pick for Kessel. That’s a steal for Toronto.

    The only real weakness Burke has is his love of truculence. That’s a waste of time and money. Still you could do a lot worse than having Burke as your GM, as indeed, Toronto has since they fired him.

  53. BlacqueJacque says:

    Soup Fascist,

    I mentioned LA and I explained LA. It was built in 1998. I went to E3 for years there, and downtown LA was a crack-infested shithole right up until 2003 when gas prices started to soar. Where there’s a nice condo complex now right across Figueroa, there was a great, big, ugly, run-down parking lot with needles every. single. year. until 2003, when they broke ground on the condos. Gathering of Developers, a now-defunct game publisher, held a side-convention there called the Promised Lot until 2003. I can’t speak about Columbus specifically since I haven’t been there so I’ll leave it alone, but I’ll merely point out that Nationwide Arena was opened in late 2000, and a few years later gas prices started rising.

    I’ve already made my points about sports teams being extractive industries like casinos, and how arenas simply divert money from one part of town to another. There’s really nothing to argue about the fundamental math behind that, so I’ll let you continue ignoring that uncomfortable fact.

    Because the fight is over, Edmonton got scammed, and we may as well make the best of it.

  54. serum114 says:

    Is it just me, or is arguing whether Burke or Lowe is a bigger asshole/worse at their job akin to an election between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich?

  55. oliveoilers says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    I too recently had a bit of spare time and sat down in my shop with a beer, chores done and was allowing my mind to wander. I started thinking about the economy and I realised that during wage freezes and indeed wage roll-backs, austerity measures, bankruptcies where the bank couldn’t afford to re-possess the assets, not once was major sports industry curtailed in any way. I read a lot of history, probably too much, and while I don’t subscribe to ‘everything shall come to pass again’, I believe we can look back and learn. The only reason I can think of for this is from ancient Rome: The one thing all those crazy emperors didn’t screw with was the games and diversions. They weren’t THAT crazy. They knew the mob ruled.

    For heaven’s sake, a Spanish soccer team just paid 100m Euros for ONE contract. That’s not even the guy’s pay. That’s 1.5m a week. This in a country on the verge of fiscal catastrophy.

    Makes a guy think….about another beer!

  56. oliveoilers says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    Wow, you had it easy! Where do I sign? I worked at Kearl…..1Hr bus trip each way to/from camp. If the bus was on time. No you don’t get OT if the bus is 1hr late for the 5th time this week…

  57. Hammers says:

    Lois Lowe:
    How many years did it take him to get Toronto into the playoffs again?

    Officially he didn’t Nonis did .

  58. Lewis Grant says:

    bookje,

    My thoughts exactly. Now I can revel in the Flames’ coming misery the way I reveled in Toronto losing out on Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton and Joe Colborne. (Boston’s ill-advised choice to trade Seguin still doesn’t make it any better for the Leafs.)

    I’ll give Burke credit for his brilliant move to get the Sedins. Since then, not so much. He only got CFP because Keenan in Florida wouldn’t throw in a first-rounder along with Bouwmeester and Weiss.

  59. BlacqueJacque says:

    oliveoilers:
    BlacqueJacque,

    Wow, you had it easy!Where do I sign?I worked at Kearl…..1Hr bus trip each way to/from camp.If the bus was on time.No you don’t get OT if the bus is 1hr late for the 5th time this week…

    I try not to work outside of Syncrude, Albian, and substations/power plants any more. I’ve never been to Kearl or Conoco and don’t plan on it.

    It may or may not have been worse at Kearl, but I need to be convinced. Kearl hasn’t burnt down its coker yet, Kearl doesn’t have vessels in danger of collapsing, and as far as I know, at Kearl Lake they don’t leave ice hanging off pipe racks and cable tray all winter.

  60. Soup Fascist says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    Soup Fascist,

    I mentioned LA and I explained LA.It was built in 1998.I went to E3 for years there, and downtown LA was a crack-infested shithole right up until 2003 when gas prices started to soar.Where there’s a nice condo complex now right across Figueroa, there was a great, big, ugly, run-down parking lot with needles every. single. year. until 2003, when they broke ground on the condos. Gathering of Developers, a now-defunct game publisher, held a side-convention there called the Promised Lot until 2003.I can’t speak about Columbus specifically since I haven’t been there so I’ll leave it alone, but I’ll merely point out that Nationwide Arena was opened in late 2000, and a few years later gas prices started rising.

    I’ve already made my points about sports teams being extractive industries like casinos, and how arenas simply divert money from one part of town to another.There’s really nothing to argue about the fundamental math behind that, so I’ll let you continue ignoring that uncomfortable fact.

    Because the fight is over, Edmonton got scammed, and we may as well make the best of it.

    Staples Center actually opened in late 1999 (not 1998) and within three years the area was totally revitalized. I am not sure if there is a better example to illustrate the point of a downtown arena that worked.

    All millionaires, or in this case billionaires, are not D-bags. Heaven forbid a guy has brains, works his a$$ off and runs companies that contribute billions to the economy. I am not a Flames fan in the least, but I am respectful of what Mr. Edwards has accomplished, when you look at where he started. Are there a few warts, sure. But we are far better off, as a province, with one Murray Edwards than a thousand union apologists whose biggest concerns are what time coffee break is and bringing down “the man”. The sixties are over, B J.

    But back to hockey, what do you think of the lineups tonight?

  61. stevezie says:

    Burke in Calgary? Best news I’ve heard all day!!! Just like that I’m glad we kept Lowe. Above all, this game is entertainment.

  62. BlacqueJacque says:

    Soup Fascist,

    I was there, it wasn’t totally revitalized. Hell, downtown LA today in 2010 was better than in 2003. I’m sure if you compare LA’s downtown revitalization with gas prices you’ll see a significant correlation, one much stronger than a single arena.

    Furthermore, you’ve yet to address the point about sports teams being extractive and arenas merely shifting spending from one part of town to another.

    Finally, I never said all billionaires and millionaires are assholes. I firmly disagree with the suggestion that they’re smarter, having met many in my 35 years of life, but I do think there’s a correlation with them being more ruthless, callous, and obviously more driven to succeed.

    Having worked for Mr. Edwards, I have absolutely zero respect for the man. He is the basest type of rich man, exploiting every loop hole, quirk, stepping on as many people as he can as much as he can to take from them what he can. Simply contrasting my experience at CNRL with other undesirable sites like Suncor, it’s not a big judgment to make.

    As far as the line-ups go… I wouldn’t spend much time looking at the forwards. They’re dead weight. The defence is where the action is at, today.

  63. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Ribs: Nurse-Klefbom
    Gernat-Musil
    Davidson-Leach
    Marincin-Betker

    Eight left-shooting D-men**. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Some pretty nice players on that list.

    (**Edit: I see Soup Fascist made this point already.)

  64. Bruce McCurdy says:

    regwald: it’s like walking into a liquor store and asking what the cost of a good bottle of scotch is and the guy says $80. You respond will you take $100 for it ? why overpay ?

    What about if the guy behind the counter says “At $80 I plan to buy that bottle at the end of my shift, but if you overpay me for it you can have it.”

    Offer sheets can be matched. Trades are absolute.

  65. regwald says:

    Bruce McCurdy: What about if the guy behind the counter says “At $80 I plan to buy that bottle at the end of my shift, but if you overpay me for it you can have it.”

    Offer sheets can be matched. Trades are absolute.

    Sure, but I believe Chiarelli had no desire to match and cause himself the cap headache. I think that was the prevailing opinion at the time. But, maybe Chiarelli is a better poker player than Burke and thus forced the trade.

  66. Kitchener says:

    Burke to Calgary is perfect. He was an absolute gem in Toronto in terms of entertainment, giving the Leafs a team identity, possessing a unique communications flair, and his emphasis on off-ice civility. It didn’t all go as planned, but Ontario fans will benefit from BB’s work here for a decade. Burke is extremely likeable when working for the competition.

    Here are some players I’m sure Calgary would love to poach from TO:
    – James Reimer
    – van Riemsdyk
    – Phil Kessel (UFA in a year)
    – D prospects Matt Finn and Stuart Percy

    The good news is that Calgary has no assets and can’t trade for anyone! Hahaha!!

    $5 says Mike Brown will play every Calgary date on the calendar this season.

  67. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Kitchener: $5 says Mike Brown will play every Calgary date on the calendar this season.

    Score one for Burke’s positive influence of the Flames’ chances of success. Bring the opposition down to your level.

  68. justDOit says:

    Two more Burke pressers, and the Saddledome should be all dried out.

  69. Bruce McCurdy says:

    regwald: I believe Chiarelli had no desire to match and cause himself the cap headache.

    Maybe so, I’m just playing devil’s advocate and pointing out that offer sheets don’t necessarily mean the guy winds up on your team. Indeed, the Penner offer sheet that so enraged Burke is the ONLY one since 1997 that saw the player actually change teams.

    Maybe if the Flyers had really wanted Shea Weber they should have worked a trade with Nashville rather than putting all their efforts into constructing a poison-pill contract. Maybe they would have needed more than four first-rounders, or maybe just a different package, but the general rule is, offer sheets usually inconvenience the signee’s old team but don’t often wind up in an actual change of scenery.

  70. НИНТЕНДО⁶⁴ says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    There’s a great Karma train coming to town, an ill wind, and as someone who’s superstitious about nothing in life except hockey, I get the feeling that while Kevin Lowe is stinking up Edmonton, if Brian Burke is in Calgary, we just might not enjoy the results.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=431209

    I really wish they’d had the barn fight, with the “loser resigns his job” stakes, and Lowe had lost.

    There must be a barn or two in Penticton where they could stage a fight for charity.

  71. Kris11 says:

    If you had asked me what I think about a war veteran putting his kids and himself in a wooden box to sleep in the woods, and anybody but LT had written it, I’d have said, “disturbing and tragicl”

    But LT makes it charming and beautiful, as I’m sure it was.

    Burke working for the Psuedo-Cowboy Town Douchebags is interesting. Does this mean more of a push to spend on free agents to win now or at least very soon? Or does it mean the opposite: a greater likelihood of a long slow rebuild?

  72. regwald says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Maybe so, I’m just playing devil’s advocate and pointing out that offer sheets don’t necessarily mean the guy winds up on your team. Indeed, the Penner offer sheet that so enraged Burke is the ONLY one since 1997 that saw the player actually change teams.

    Maybe if the Flyers had really wanted Shea Weber they should have worked a trade with Nashville rather than putting all their efforts into constructing a poison-pill contract. Maybe they would have needed more than four first-rounders, or maybe just a different package, but the general rule is, offer sheets usually inconvenience the signee’s old team but don’t often wind up in an actual change of scenery.

    A good perspective, but Nashville wasn’t at the cap and thus the match was a one time pain pill. A huge one, but now his salary is quite manageable. I suspect in that example a trade would have been better.

    The sweet part about the Penner offer sheet and why it worked was Anaheim had so little wiggle room and couldn’t easily match without giving away other assets. That’s why I think Burke held the upper hand with the Bruins. Same reason.

    Water under the bridge with the speculation. However, it speaks to Burke’s style. Risk player, brash moves and go after what you want. Makes me happier that MacT has some of that vs Tambo. If you don’t take a chance, the road to improvement can be very slow indeed.

  73. Soup Fascist says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    Bruce McCurdy: Score one for Burke’s positive influence of the Flames’ chances of success. Bring the opposition down to your level.

    OK. Last arena point to answer your question. Let me give you my example and see if that explains how the Staples / LA Live arena development generated “new” money for the downtown Los Angeles area. Starting around 2006, every year my teenage son and I would take a “guys” extended weekend (4 to 5 days). The first few years we would go golfing in winter to Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc. Since he was a Kings fan and the JW Marriott and Ritz-Carleton were brand new, in 2010 we decided to go to two Kings games and a Lakers game over a four day period. We stayed at the JW Marriott across the street from Staples Center. Loved the venue, the LA Live vibe, the restaurants, ESPN zone, the hotel, etc. Because the experience was great we have been back twice more since. Over a four day weekend between tickets, hotel , food, etc. I am estimating we drop around $2000 in the L.A. Live area. Over those 3 years, that is $6000 spent in downtown L.A. that would have been dropped in Phoenix, Vegas or stayed in my meagre savings account. I would not be spending my money there, had it not been a great experience. In all honesty the Staples Center and the development of LA Live is the reason I spent my hard earned cash there. I would not have stayed anywhere near the “Fabulous Forum”, when I did go to a game there in the mid-eighties, I stayed in a different county.

    Edit: sorry Bruce, not sure how I got your comment wound in here.

  74. commonfan14 says:

    regwald: That’s why I think Burke held the upper hand with the Bruins. Same reason.

    Hadn’t Kessel also already made noise about wanting out of Boston?

  75. BlacqueJacque says:

    Soup Fascist,

    Since I’ve already shit all over this entire topic, might as well continue?

    You went to LA. There are more people living in and around LA than in Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and all three Territories combined. You could throw in the Maritimes for good measure and still fall about 3 million short. At any given moment during LA rush hour, there are more people on the freeways and roads there than live in Edmonton.

    LA has a beautiful climate and a billion things to do. Like I said, I’ve spent a lot of time there.

    You didn’t go to Omaha, Nebraska. You didn’t go to Rochester, New York, you didn’t go to Olympia, Washington, you didn’t go to Austin, Texas, you didn’t go to Jackson, Mississippi, you didn’t go to Salt Lake City, Utah, you didn’t go to Savannah, Georgia, you didn’t go to Durham, South Carolina.

    Edmonton isn’t LA. Edmonton is all of those other cities. In fact, outside of the job market, it’s worse.

    No matter what emotional arguments you use to justify it, no matter your personal spending in a metropolis of 15 million people full of great weather, beaches, hills, celebrities, outlet malls, Disneylands, Six Flags, etc. you weren’t in Edmonton or a city like Edmonton.

    No matter your emotional arguments about your lovely story about your expedition with your son, you can’t argue that Edmonton is a tourist destination like LA. People don’t come to Edmonton. Chinese and Japanese and Korean folk come here to go to Jasper, but if they can afford it they’ll probably go to Calgary and hit Banff instead. People from LA don’t come to Edmonton, and on the off chance they do, the Oilers aren’t the reason they come.

    As beautiful as your story is, it changes nothing about the fact that sports franchises are little better than casinos.

    I know, I get it, you feel passionately about the Oilers, but you got scammed. I got scammed. Everyone who pays a penny of property tax in the city got scammed. And as much fun as it is cheering boys and men half our age to play a game, to pay $100/ticket per game +$10 popcorn and $9 beer, to watch them do so, we got scammed. We’re subsidizing a hobby for millionaires so that billionaires can earn money off of it. And we’re doing so out of our pathetic insecurity that we’re not as good as Los Angeles or New York or Chicago, because we’re not.

  76. Melman says:

    justDOit:
    Two more Burke pressers, and the Saddledome should be all dried out.

    Awesome

  77. thejonrmcleod says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    Not a serious rebuttal, but…

    The first time I visit Edmonton will be after the arena is built to watch an Oilers game or two.

  78. BlacqueJacque says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    Great, now if you along with the 1,000, or 10,000, or even 100,000 other people who do come because of the arena could sign us a $450M cheque to pay for the thing, we’d all be very grateful. :/

    My not-serious reply to your not-serious rebuttal.

  79. LMHF#1 says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    , you didn’t go to Austin, Texas,

    I hate to even come anywhere near this issue because nearly everyone on every side of this arena lost their bloody minds long ago and no one has learned the one lesson which is that it serves no one for the process on this type of thing to take this long….BUT ANYWAY…

    I’ve been to Austin, TX on a work trip and we did specifically select it due to similarities to Edmonton and things that could be ahead for Edmonton. What specifically led you to reference it here? Or just generally?

  80. justDOit says:

    BlacqueJacque,

    Nicely put. Thanks.

  81. BlacqueJacque says:

    LMHF#1,

    I’m just pointing out it’s not a tourist destination, despite being a nice town with other things going for it. Like Olympia, or SLC, or Durham.

    Tourists go to LA, NYC, Toronto, Vancouver, Miami. And even in those cities, privately funded arenas have collapsed and begun to rely on public funds, or been bought out, or never been private in the first place.

    Also, you went on a work trip. If given the choice of Austin, LA, NYC, or Miami, where would you have gone? No need to reply, I know the answer – “not Austin”.

    Thought so.

  82. LMHF#1 says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    LMHF#1,

    Also, you went on a work trip.If given the choice of Austin, LA, NYC, or Miami, where would you have gone?No need to reply, I know the answer – “not Austin”.

    Thought so.

    That depends on what I want to do. I get the point you’re driving at, but also enjoyed Austin a bunch and don’t much like dealing with the hassles associated with LA/NYC/Miami.

  83. BlacqueJacque says:

    LMHF#1: That depends on what I want to do. I get the point you’re driving at, but also enjoyed Austin a bunch and don’t much like dealing with the hassles associated with LA/NYC/Miami.

    I’m sure your individual experience applies on an industrial scale to the hundreds of thousands of tourists necessary to pay for the arena scam in Edmonton.

  84. LMHF#1 says:

    BlacqueJacque: I’m sure your individual experience applies on an industrial scale to the hundreds of thousands of tourists necessary to pay for the arena scam in Edmonton.

    Don’t get touchy – I said I got the point you’re making.

  85. BlacqueJacque says:

    LMHF#1,

    Then why argue?

  86. commonfan14 says:

    BlacqueJacque: you can’t argue that Edmonton is a tourist destination like LA

    Pfft – you totally forgot about the mall.

  87. LMHF#1 says:

    BlacqueJacque:
    LMHF#1,

    Then why argue?

    You asked me where I’d go. I answered while acknowledging your point. That isn’t arguing.

  88. Zipdot says:

    LMHF#1: That depends on what I want to do. I get the point you’re driving at, but also enjoyed Austin a bunch and don’t much like dealing with the hassles associated with LA/NYC/Miami.

    Austin rules, I live in Houston and love hitting up Sixth Street. It’s like the west coast or pacific northwest without the homers.

  89. Zipdot says:

    Does anyone know what time the game starts?

  90. Ribs says:

    Zipdot,

    Rookies Schedule here…. http://oilers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=91947&navid=DL|EDM|home

    Tonight at 5pm by the looks of things. All games will be streamed on the Oilers site.

  91. spoiler says:

    It’s been a perfect trip so far, filled with all of the kinds of good luck needed to smooth out the usual bumps and potholes.

    We got the last room at the Sandman Inn, kitty corner to the rink, which had only just become available because there had been a cancellation 30 minutes before. Place is filled with young fresh-faced hockey players. Winnipeg TSN radio is here too. And we just got back from lunch at the Lakeside Hotel and Casino (best patio in town, right on the lake), where the Oilers are staying. The AHL OKC brass was in the lobby preparing to leave as we walked out.

    Gonna put on my Eberle jersey now and head across the road to the rink with a wonderful lady, and watch some ice hockey. Hopefully I will have more for y’all later this eve. Till then, enjoy the game and…

    Goilers!!!

  92. justDOit says:

    Ribs:
    Zipdot,

    Rookies Schedule here…. http://oilers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=91947&navid=DL|EDM|home

    Tonight at 5pm by the looks of things. All games will be streamed on the Oilers site.

    I hope they’ve upgraded the 14.4 kbps modem connection in Penticton this year. And for those of you just skimming the comments:

    The prospect games are no longer being streamed. Don’t even bother trying.

  93. delooper says:

    justDOit:
    The prospect games are no longer being streamed. Don’t even bother trying.

    The webpage still says they’ll be streaming the four games…

  94. Lowetide says:

    gdt is up

  95. Tarkus says:

    Someone tell these announcers to adjust their mics, move ‘em to the side of the mouth or something. They’re popping their P’s like crazy. It’s distracting.

    Nurse with the first penalty as he cross-checks Baertschi into the boards from behind in the EDM end.

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