THE COST OF ADDING GOALTENDING

The Oilers have gone “In Search Of…” goaltending several times in their history. They usually find adequate men, it sometimes takes more than one try, and they’ve struck gold a time or two.

OILERS ACQUIRING GOALIES, 1979-2010

  1. March 11, 1980: RON LOW. Oilers traded their first NHL captain (Ron Chipperfield) because they were so desperate to solve the goaltending problem. Edmonton employed 6 goalies in their first NHL season, with Low finally settling things down and starting all 3 of their playoff games, spring 1980.
  2. March 8, 1988: BILL RANFORD. Eight years later, the Oilers were looking to deal Andy Moog (who was playing for the Canadian National Team during 87-88 season, waiting for a deal) and found a strong return from Boston (Ranford and Geoff Courtnall came from the Bruins). I think this is a good comparable for the Oilers today, in that “need” drove the Bruins to a deal that they were thrilled to make but which came back to haunt them just two years later.
  3. March 10, 1992: RON TUGNUTT. The Oilers still had Bill Ranford as the starter, but not a lot behind him. Slats dealt Martin Rucinsky for Tugnutt and would lose him to expansion 15 months later. It was not a good value trade, but Sather usually did well in his deals so I’m hesitant to rip him for it.
  4. August 4, 1995: CURTIS JOSEPH. This was a Godsend, absolutely manna from heaven. The Oilers acquired Grier and Joseph for 1st rd picks in 1996 and 1977, but it’s more complicated than that (the Blues signed Shayne Corson to an offer sheet–Keenan needed him badly–and didn’t want to lose the first round picks) in that the picks were STL’s and they bought them back with CuJo and Rosie. One of the best trades in team history, two men of the highest order for Shayne Corson. Lordy.
  5. June 14, 1996: BOB ESSENSA. Oilers acquired him from Detroit for futures (still don’t know what it ended up being) and he provided solid goaltending in a (mostly) backup role during his time with Edmonton.
  6. October 1, 1998: MIKHAIL SHTALENKOV. By now, Joseph had flown the coop via free agency and the Oilers weren’t completely convinced Essensa could carry the entire load (that’s my recall) and chose to give Steve Passmore another AHL season (he’d kill it, but never did establish himself).
  7. March 20, 1999: TOMMY SALO. Sather remained restless after the Joseph exit, and his final pickup in the NHL goalie department was Salo. Tommy Gun was already famous for wilting under the shattering criticism of Mike “empire builder” Milbury, but would settle in for a long run as the Oilers #1. He would play in 15 playoff games with the Oilers.
  8. March 8, 2006: DWAYNE ROLOSON. Kevin Lowe’s 2nd most famous “good trade” cost a first round pick in 2006 and was worth every penny. Roloson would backstop the legendary ’06 group to the SCF finals before injury robbed him (and us) of the opportunity to play in the finals (after game one). This was the type of trade you make when close to winning it all–it would be a foolish move for such a young and developing team (like the current edition) but it was splendid at the time.

Sather was outstanding at getting quality, witness the Ranford and Joseph pickups above. Trading for goalies can be expensive, especially the highly ranked ones, and for that reason I think we all hope Devan Dubnyk can recover soon and re-set his season.

The Ben Bishop miss looms large, and was most certainly an opportunity missed. Craig MacTavish is cornered, and the chances of making a ‘Moog for Ranford and Geoff Courtnall’ deal are very good. It’s a damned tight spot, ladies.

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109 Responses to "THE COST OF ADDING GOALTENDING"

  1. striatic says:

    Why didn’t the Oilers pick up Bishop again?

    Did the Oilers not have a Cory Conacher equivalent?

  2. D says:

    Great recap LT. My big worry is the Oilers trading away a blue chip prospect for a minor upgrade over Dubnyk. If they are going to part with one of the studs, then we need to see a true Number 1 goalie (and I don’t feel Ryan Miller is such a goalie).

  3. Lowetide says:

    striatic:
    Why didn’t the Oilers pick up Bishop again?

    Did the Oilers not have a Cory Conacher equivalent?

    Trade was Cory Conacher and a 4th, Oil apparently offered Jones and a 2nd but wanted to be aggressive. Tambellini fired blanks and Senators grabbed Conacher. I think that might have been the last straw for Tambellini as a GM.

  4. Woodguy says:

    So everyone is trading Yak for spare change.

    This city gets the team it deserves.

  5. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide,

    Trade was Cory Conacher and a 4th, Oil apparently offered Jones and a 2nd but wanted to be aggressive. Tambellini fired blanks and Senators grabbed Conacher. I think that might have been the last straw for Tambellini as a GM.

    I heard the same.

    Marching orders to get Bishop.

    Throws out an expiring contract on a middling 3rd liner with an eye problem and a 2nd and doesn’t follow up.

    Next stop UIC.

  6. Big Dan says:

    You are correct about the Bishop miss. I was bummed last March but the silver lining was it was the straw that broke Tambo’s back. Him getting fired was the best thing to ever happen to the Oilers.

    I don’t think overpaying for a #1G is foolish at all, just because we are a young and developing team.

    MacT said it in his opening interview. Careers are short and the time for winning is now.

    With every day that passes, we are falling out of the playoff race. Sure, we could get red hot and just miss the playoffs like Columbus a year ago because of the slow start.

    NO! These guys need to get in and build off that experience, the same way TO has done so far. For the sake of this franchise, we have to get in the playoffs… this year.

    We criticize MacT for her boneheaded moves (not buying out Nick Schultz, resigning dead weight in Ryan Jones/ Denis Grebeshkov/ Steve MacIntyre, choosing a mediocre backup)… but he’s made a lot of good moves too. And a good near-miss for Schneider.

    Belov and Ference have turned the defense into a tougher and more mobile unit. They may not be a bunch of Rob Scuderi’s but the Oilers are not dumping and chasing all night anymore either – they have the puck (what a concept!).

    Arcobello has re-placed Gagner for the time being. He and Gordon both win faceoffs and are good in their own zone.

    Joensuu has grit and fiestiness. Gadzic can fight.

    This is a good team… it just needs goaltending NOW.

    Ryan Miller is only 33. He’s got at least 5 years left. The going rate for a #1 is $6M. If he’ll come and resign, I don’t give a damn about the first round pick. None. It’s a crapshoot. I am SICK of talking about high draft picks. You do know the pick we gave up for Dwayne Roloson was Trevor Lewis. Big whoop. Mitch Moroz or Greg Chase or Jujhar Khaira will be him in two years.

    If Buffalo will deal Miller, we will get into the playoffs or get close. Wait a couple more weeks and it’s another boring March and April. I can’t handle it.

    Or see if we can get James Reimer for a 2nd round pick and a prospect like Marincin. (The out of touch Toronto media was saying Yakupov.)

    I don’t care. MacT said he was not a patient man. JUST DO IT MAN! If the player we give ends up playing us in the Cup finals like Ranford did to Boston, well I’d be tickled pink at that scenario. :)

    I’m also not adverse to dealing Smid for Zack Smith or Yakupov for Myers. All kinds of crazy rumors online right now. Those are fun for armchair GM’s like us to ruminate about… but all I care about is that MacT GETS A GOALIE.

  7. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “August 4, 1995: CURTIS JOSEPH. This was a Godsend, absolutely manna from heaven. The Oilers acquired Grier and Joseph for 1st rd picks in 1996 and 1977, but it’s more complicated than that (the Blues signed Shayne Corson to an offer sheet–Keenan needed him badly–and didn’t want to lose the first round picks) in that the picks were STL’s and they bought them back with CuJo and Rosie. One of the best trades in team history, two men of the highest order for Shayne Corson. Lordy.”

    Does someone have a link for more detail on this?

    I can’t make sense out of this shorthand version.

    ———–
    “Craig MacTavish is cornered, and the chances of making a ‘Moog for Ranford and Geoff Courtnall’ deal are very good. It’s a damned tight spot, ladies.”

    I gather we acquire the Moog (say… Miller?) in this scenario and send away Dubnyk and ?…

    Yes… I don’t like that.

  8. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    So everyone is trading Yak for spare change.

    This city gets the team it deserves.

    MacT isn’t going to deal Yakupov. People are working themselves into a lather for no reason. One of the MAIN reason Eakins was hired by the Oilers was exactly what’s happening now:

    Eakins is reversing the past, asking the team to cut down on BASIC mistakes and make playing against them difficult.

    Nail Yakupov got the scratch, but he’s not alone. Watch any period this season and you’ll see mistakes–Hall, Smid, Eberle, Nuge, Hemsky, Perron, Justin Schultz 100 times.

    This is going to take some time, but it’ll be spectacular in the end. And a fucking save once in a while would be nice.

  9. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide: Trade was Cory Conacher and a 4th, Oil apparently offered Jones and a 2nd but wanted to be aggressive. Tambellini fired blanks and Senators grabbed Conacher. I think that might have been the last straw for Tambellini as a GM.

    Tambellini axed the same day Bishop signed his new contract with TBay. Hmmmm.

  10. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dammit… forget that Bishop trade. Why didn’t we out bid OTT’s 2nd rounder for him? Our 2nd would have been more attractive. much more.

  11. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: .

    Rom: Ottawa gave up a FOURTH!!!!!

  12. dangilitis says:

    Woodguy,

    If Mact listens to the mob after 7 games then he deserves the team he gets and the ire of fans when yak city is gone. Why don’t we think of players who we would trade yak for and you’ll see the list is pretty short and full of franchise players.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Rom: Ottawa gave up a FOURTH!!!!!

    Are you saying the 2nd is worth more than Conacher and a 4th? That OTT flipped Bishop at a loss?

  14. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    “August 4, 1995: CURTIS JOSEPH. This was a Godsend, absolutely manna from heaven. The Oilers acquired Grier and Joseph for 1st rd picks in 1996 and 1977, but it’s more complicated than that (the Blues signed Shayne Corson to an offer sheet–Keenan needed him badly–and didn’t want to lose the first round picks) in that the picks were STL’s and they bought them back with CuJo and Rosie. One of the best trades in team history, two men of the highest order for Shayne Corson. Lordy.”

    Does someone have a link for more detail on this?

    I can’t make sense out of this shorthand version.

    ———–
    “Craig MacTavish is cornered, and the chances of making a ‘Moog for Ranford and Geoff Courtnall’ deal are very good. It’s a damned tight spot, ladies.”

    I gather we acquire the Moog (say… Miller?) in this scenario and send away Dubnyk and ?…

    Yes… I don’t like that.

    Mike Keenan landed in St. Louis looking to remake his team in his own image (addled, half bubble off plumb, dick headed). He offer sheeted Shayne Corson of the Oilers, and they got the player. The penalty was a first round pick in each of the following seasons.

    Keenan didn’t want to give that up, so he traded for the picks (now EDM’s property) and gave up Joseph and Grier for the picks.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=06opAAAAIBAJ&sjid=F-wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5265,1990569&dq=curtis+joseph&hl=en

  15. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Are you saying the 2nd is worth more than Conacher and a 4th? That OTT flipped Bishop at a loss?

    I think Conacher is worth a 2nd, so all the Oilers needed to do was improve on the Jones portion (Conacher is a better player than Jones).

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=06opAAAAIBAJ&sjid=F-wDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5265,1990569&dq=curtis+joseph&hl=en

    Thanks!

    that’s much more clear. I think just reading the same story told in a slightly different manner helps. The article goes a long way of course.

  17. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: I think Conacher is worth a 2nd, so all the Oilers needed to do was improve on the Jones portion (Conacher is a better player than Jones).

    Ahh… I get the confusion…. I’m talking about this trade:

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=619075

    Why didn’t we get in on this trade?

  18. Ribs says:

    I’m not sure what would have beat Tampa’s offer for Bishop, though. Conacher was at or near the top of the rookie scoring race for most of last season. Would Paajarvi and the 2nd have done it? Would that have been acceptable at the time?

    I’m just hoping MacT can find an Essensa to fill the void until a more palatable opportunity presents itself.

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ribs,

    I think Paajarvi is exactly the kind of player OTT would love. That may have been an overpay though… (homer alert?)

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Speaking of Low… how is it we haven’t hired him to assist the assistant to Messier or something yet?

    ——
    also, did the Oilers ever send out an official press release on the Messier thing, or announce his official title or job or anything?

    seems like the kind of thing a struggling team would do to distract from the on-ice activity… maybe they’re a little embarrassed about the old boys club thing.

  21. Ribs says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Ribs,

    I think Paajarvi is exactly the kind of player OTT would love. That may have been an overpay though… (homer alert?)

    I think many would have seen it as an overpay at that given time. I’m not sure what the Oilers could have offered beyond that to better the Conacher deal, though.

  22. Melman says:

    Imagine the heat on the goalies if they were still in town right now! They have 3 games left on this trip. If they can come away with 4 pts, that might be enough to calm the home town fans for the game against the caps, opening puck drop anyway, and then they get to scoot out of town for a couple more to right the ship.

    We can hope that the old adage that you “tend to lose when you shouldn’t at the end of a lousy streak (and win when you don’t deserve to just before you start one)” is at play for these guys. If not, Mr. Bachman may be making his Oil debut against OV while Dooby and Barbie play scissors, rocks and paper to see who gets stuck sitting on the bench watching Golden Girl reruns on the ipad

  23. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Ribs,

    I think Paajarvi is exactly the kind of player OTT would love. That may have been an overpay though… (homer alert?)

    Ottawa”s LW depth chart:

    Bobby Ryan

    Milan Michalek

    Clarke McArthur

    Cory Conacher

    Matt Kassian

    Matt Puempel

    Ottawa needs Paajarvi like a fish needs a bicycle.

  24. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Ottawa”s LW depth chart:

    Bobby Ryan

    Milan Michalek

    Clarke McArthur

    Cory Conacher

    Matt Kassian

    Matt Puempel

    Ottawa needs Paajarvi like a fish needs a bicycle.

    I think you missed the point of the exercise.

  25. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Which is “Paajarvi is exactly the kind of player OTT would love”?

    C’mon.

    Ottawa has a D prospect named Ben Blood.

    What else do they need? :)

  26. Captain Smarmy says:

    Ben Blood? Sold!

    Still enjoying my Oilers Blackout. Not watching a minute until I go to the Pens game in January. Love the upgrade to second-rate fandom.

  27. SK Oiler Fan says:

    MacT needs to pull a D Sutter career move. Kipper for a 2nd is one of the best moves in the past 10 years. He was a top 5 goalie for 7 years. Big question: are there any 2003 Kippers out there?

  28. fifthcartel says:

    Never really understood why they weren’t in on the first Bishop trade. Neuvirth could be interesting and not cost a whole lot. Otherwise we’re venturing into Brian Eliott territory and that can be a scary place.

  29. cabbiesmacker says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I think you missed the point of the exercise.

    What was the exercize? Too see how many would call you on Paajarvi being id’d as an actual hockey player people would miss?

  30. cabbiesmacker says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    MacT needs to pull a D Sutter career move. Kipper for a 2nd is one of the best moves in the past 10 years. He was a top 5 goalie for 7 years. Big question: are there any 2003 Kippers out there?

    You’re asking this of the Oilers Pro Scout team? I have a feeling they hit their 5 year quota with David Perron. (which still causes chuckles over those opining it was a close trade when it happened)

  31. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide,
    Ha. That is, hands down, the best description I’ve ever read/heard of Mike Keenan!

  32. Lowetide says:

    There’s Oil: Thanks!

    hunter: you are free to post.

  33. striatic says:

    Ribs: I think many would have seen it as overpay at that given time. I’m not sure what the Oilers could have offered beyond that to better the Conacher deal, though.

    PRV.

    Maybe Klefbom.

    Conacher was having an unsustainably hot start to last season, and Yzerman sold high on him. Brilliant play.

  34. Brackenburied says:

    The only trade worth doing is one that is an upgrade on last years Dubnyk. Not many of those around, particularly this time of the year. Is Hiller good enough? Probably but Ducks don’t like Oil. Stand pat for now MacT.

  35. striatic says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Ottawa”s LW depth chart:

    Bobby Ryan

    Milan Michalek

    Clarke McArthur

    Cory Conacher

    Matt Kassian

    Matt Puempel

    Ottawa needs Paajarvi like a fish needs a bicycle.

    Not to insult your intelligence, but we were discussing what it would have taken to get Ben Bishop out of OTT, not someone else right now [Lehner?].

    At that time, OTT didn’t have half those players you listed on their roster.

  36. striatic says:

    Brackenburied: Probably but Ducks don’t like Oil.

    Why wouldn’t they like the Oil after the Oilers gifted them Cogliano?

  37. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    striatic: Not to insult your intelligence, but we were discussing what it would have taken to get Ben Bishop out of OTT, not someone else right now [Lehner?].

    At that time, OTT didn’t have half those players you listed on their roster.

    Bingo!

    Of course, it would be interesting to see whether a Conacher-full Ottawa team would trade Bishop for another Conacher. That might really overwhelm their LW depth though! :)

  38. Brackenburied says:

    striatic: Why wouldn’t they like the Oil after the Oilers gifted them Cogliano?

    That was olive oil and free. Who wouldn’t like that!

  39. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    cabbiesmacker: What was the exercize? Too see how many would call you on Paajarvi being id’d as an actual hockey player people would miss?

    I’d take him back in a heart beat.

  40. gr8one says:

    striatic:

    Conacher was having an unsustainably hot start to last season, and Yzerman sold high on him. Brilliant play.

    This is true but Conacher is still a very good young player with a lot more value than Jones.

    On another note watching the Caps/Rangers game right now and it’s amplifying my annoyance yet again regarding the Smack waiver claim. I know we have a lot of D depth currently but man this Urbom kid has a nice toolset and size…that’s the kind of player we should have burned a 50 man roster spot on a waiver claim. $##@#!@##!

  41. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’d take him back in a heart beat.

    Me too.

    Nuge-Hall-Eberle
    Gagner-Perron-Hemsky
    Gordon-Paajarvi-Yakupov
    Arcobello-Joensuu-Smyth

    Hell’s bells.

  42. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    cabbiesmacker: You’re asking this of the Oilers Pro Scout team? I have a feeling they hit their 5 year quota with David Perron. (which still causes chuckles over those opining it was a close trade when it happened)

    MacT claimed that scalp for his “analytics guys” not his scouts, though I’m sure Gare and Semenko offered some kind of grumbling about it.

  43. Brackenburied says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’d take him back in a heart beat.

    And Smyth plays on the 4th and PK?

  44. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Brackenburied: And Smyth plays on the 4th and PK?

    Like a dream come true isn’t it?

  45. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    striatic: Not to insult your intelligence, but we were discussing what it would have taken to get Ben Bishop out of OTT, not someone else right now [Lehner?].

    At that time, OTT didn’t have half those players you listed on their roster.

    Not to insult your intelligence but the assertion was that Paajarvi “is the kind of player Ottawa would love”

    What is that assertion based on?

    Did Ottawa offer the Oilers something in trade for Paajarvi?

    Do you think they would prefer to have him over Ryan, McArthur or Conacher?

  46. Brackenburied says:

    Lowetide: Me too.

    Nuge-Hall-Eberle
    Gagner-Perron-Hemsky
    Gordon-Paajarvi-Yakupov
    Arcobello-Joensuu-Smyth

    Hell’s bells.

    Did Paajarvi play much with Yak last year? Stop it, it’ll never happen. He’s gone.

  47. russ99 says:

    IMO, the Oilers should hold out for a while on a goalie trade, as they’d be dealing from a position of major weakness.

    Also the (seemingly) annual goalie swap deals don’t usually happen until late November the earliest.

  48. Brackenburied says:

    Isn’t saying “Not to insult your intelligence” kind of like saying “Hey dumbass”?

  49. striatic says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Do you think they would prefer to have him over Ryan, McArthur or Conacher?

    That’s what we were discussing.

    Welcome to the conversation.

    But clearly OTT looking for a LW, and PRV is generally considered to be a better and more promising LW than Jones, which is what the Oilers were apparently offering. Unless you think Jones would have landed Perron or something. What a deal that would have been.

    PRV might not be as good as Conacher, and OTT might not even have thought so at the time, but PRV and a 2nd is at least a competitive deal with Conacher and a 4th, judging by who the Oilers did get back for PRV shortly thereafter.

  50. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    gr8one: This is true but Conacher is still a very good young player with a lot more value than Jones.

    On another note watching the Caps/Rangers game right now and it’s amplifying my annoyance yet again regarding the Smack waiver claim. I know we have a lot of D depth currently but man this Urbom kid has a nice toolset and size…that’s the kind of player we should have burned a 50 man roster spot on a waiver claim. $##@#!@##!

    For sure. Jones wasn’t good enough. I don’t think anyone is saying Jones > Conacher or even that he equals Conacher.

    Urbom and Klefbom would have made a great tandem. Oh, Gene! he’d be so happy!

  51. Ice Sage says:

    Man, if we’re pining for Magnus Paajarvi to save the Oil, he of the healthy scratch until tonight in StL, we’re done, achingly nostalgic, myopic or just frickin bored. Dead end idea.

    I’m just excited that we’re tracking well for the Corsi playoffs! Take that Gord Miller, you can have your
    (in Homer Simpson air quotes) “real world hockey”

  52. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Not to insult your intelligencebut the assertion was that Paajarvi “is the kind of player Ottawa would love”

    What is that assertion based on?

    Did Ottawa offer the Oilers something in trade for Paajarvi?

    Do you think they would prefer to have him over Ryan, McArthur or Conacher?

    Did you forget how to read?

    What was the context of that assertion and why was it phrased in the past tense?

    Why would a team with Ryan, MacArthur and Conacher trade for Conacher?

    What are you talking about?

  53. Dead Cat Bounce says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Did you forget how to read?

    What was the context of that assertion and why was it phrased in the past tense?

    Why would a team with Ryan, MacArthur and Conacher trade for Conacher?

    What are you talking about?

    Keep digging until you get out of that hole.

    Or until you can explain why “Paajarvi is the kind of player Ottawa would love”.

  54. striatic says:

    Ice Sage: Man, if we’re pining for Magnus Paajarvi to save the Oil, he of the healthy scratch until tonight in StL, we’re done, achingly nostalgic, myopic or just frickin bored. Dead end idea.

    The only pining i’m seeing is for Ben Bishop to have saved the Oilers, not PRV.

  55. striatic says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Or until you can explain why “Paajarvi is the kind of player Ottawa would love”.

    because PRV *is* the kind of player Ottawa would love?

    just that, in acquiring Conacher and subsequent to the Bishop trade they got a bucketful of LWs of the type they also love, mitigating any desire to trade for PRV despite him being the kind of player they generally like?

  56. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: MacT isn’t going to deal Yakupov. People are working themselves into a lather for no reason. One of the MAIN reason Eakins was hired by the Oilers was exactly what’s happening now:

    Eakins is reversing the past, asking the team to cut down on BASIC mistakes and make playing against them difficult.

    Nail Yakupov got the scratch, but he’s not alone. Watch any period this season and you’ll see mistakes–Hall, Smid, Eberle, Nuge, Hemsky, Perron, Justin Schultz 100 times.

    This is going to take some time, but it’ll be spectacular in the end. And a fucking save once in a while would be nice.

    I doubt MacT would do anything stupid with Yak as well.

    I’m just past my breaking point with the fans in this city.

  57. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: I doubt MacT would do anything stupid with Yak as well.

    I’m just past my breaking point with the fans in this city.

    lol. I think several of MacT’s bets–Perron, Gordon, Ference, Belov–have worked out well. And I do think this gets solved when the players stop doing things that weren’t coached into them in previous years. Perhaps that’s not fair, but there’s more of a button down approach now, and we know from experience that’s what has to happen–the Oilers in 1984 were a helluva lot tighter than the 1980 edition.

  58. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Keep digging until you get out of that hole.

    Or until you can explain why “Paajarvi is the kind of player Ottawa would love”.

    Curious.

    What time is it there? Can you read this sentence? If someone else contributes to this conversation, will you remember that this one also took place? hmmm…

    It’s a good thing it’s all here for your reference. Otherwise, we’d have to restate it all for you. Go learn how to read, then come back read the comments (all of them… I know you like to skip to the end!), then you might know why your comment is such a bizarre and anachronistic non sequitur.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bd0erNx6rWw

  59. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ice Sage:
    Man, if we’re pining for Magnus Paajarvi to save the Oil, he of the healthy scratch until tonight in StL, we’re done, achingly nostalgic, myopic or just frickin bored.Dead end idea.

    I’m just excited that we’re tracking well for the Corsi playoffs!Take that Gord Miller, you can have your
    (in Homer Simpson air quotes) “real world hockey”

    Don’t be so dramatic. Pining yes (for some, guilty as charged!). saved, no. Paajarvi would be the kind of 3rd liner who can take on tough assignments, chip in some points and PK this team needs since it whiffed on the Winnick FA and dealt Paajarvi.

    I think the top 9 MacT had in mind was probably

    RNH-Hall-Eberle
    Gagner-Yakupov-Clarkson
    Gordon-Paajarvi-Joensuu/Jones/Smyth

    Assuming one of Yak/Clarkson played off-wing and that Jonensuu, Jones and Smyth would battle for that 9th spot with the other two on the 4th line.

  60. Old School G says:

    Great article Lowetide as always!

    I would be ok with facing Dubby in the Stanley Cup Finals on this day. I personally hope for MacT to snipe Eddie Lack from Gillis…I can see it now! Lack and Dubby would be a great tandem while Lack gets comfortable in the NHL. Exit Dubby. Lack is our Kipper.

  61. Woodguy says:

    striatic: because PRV *is* the kind of player Ottawa would love?

    just that, in acquiring Conacher and subsequent to the Bishop trade they got a bucketful of LWs of the type they also love, mitigating any desire to trade for PRV despite him being the kind of player they generally like?

    How’s your head?

    Put a dent in the wall yet?

    The goal posts are never in the same spot with that guy.

  62. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: lol. I think several of MacT’s bets–Perron, Gordon, Ference, Belov–have worked out well. And I do think this gets solved when the players stop doing things that weren’t coached into them in previous years. Perhaps that’s not fair, but there’s more of a button down approach now, and we know from experience that’s what has to happen–the Oilers in 1984 were a helluva lot tighter than the 1980 edition.

    You mean years and years of bad habits aren’t coached out of player by game 7?

    Also,

    He wants his rough and tumble guys to play in the top 9 and Joensuu isn’t enough.

    Something might happen.

  63. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Old School G:
    Great article Lowetide as always!

    I would be ok with facing Dubby in the Stanley Cup Finals on this day. I personally hope for MacT to snipe Eddie Lack from Gillis…I can see it now! Lack and Dubby would be a great tandem while Lack gets comfortable in the NHL. Exit Dubby. Lack is our Kipper.

    Gillis is going to want an in-division premium paid, like with Schneids.

    Better to look elsewhere.

    If we make it through the year and he emerges as a solid bet, Khudo might sign as a free agent.

    The other thing is college and Euro free agents. MacT was very aggressive chasing this market last summer. Look for more of the same.

  64. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: You mean years and years of bad habits aren’t coached out of player by game 7?

    Also,

    He wants his rough and tumble guys to play in the top 9 and Joensuu isn’t enough.

    Something might happen.

    sure, if Philly is trading Simmonds. But Philly isn’t dealing him. If they were, he’d be an Oiler.

  65. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    FWIW, capgeek already has the 2014 UFA class in a handy presentation. Here’s the Gs:

    http://www.capgeek.com/ufa-finder?position_id=G

    Lundquist is the clear belle of the ball. Any one else you folks fancy? Think they might actually make it to free agency?

  66. wheatnoil says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    FWIW, capgeek already has the 2014 UFA class in a handy presentation. Here’s the Gs:

    http://www.capgeek.com/ufa-finder?position_id=G

    Lundquist is the clear belle of the ball. Any one else you folks fancy? Think they might actually make it to free agency?

    You know, if you target a guy with a good historical track record but coming off a bad year and still young, you might be able to get a steal of a deal for cheap. Based off that criteria, I’d target that Dubnyk character.

  67. misfit says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    MacT needs to pull a D Sutter career move. Kipper for a 2nd is one of the best moves in the past 10 years. He was a top 5 goalie for 7 years. Big question: are there any 2003 Kippers out there?

    Closest thing IMO would be Jonas Gustavsson. Acton coached him in Toronto (like Sutter in SJ with Kiprusoff), he dominated the AHL with mixed results in limited NHL action (Gustavsson was .955 and .963 in two short stints in the minors).

    Or, as much as I hate to say it, James Reimer isn’t all that terrible an option.

    Frederik Andersen fits the description of an elite minor league goalie trapped in a crowded goalie depth chart in Anaheim behind Hiller, Fasth, and Gibson. In fact, any of those 4 could be realistic options to be moved.

  68. Old School G says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I’m alarmed about how this season has started but not panicked enough to suggest that we pay the Gillis premium. BUT if in a couple more losses the Corsi and my eyes keep suggesting that all the Oilers need are a little more luck and some goaltending and the goaltending can be addressed immediately I say take action.

  69. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Old School G:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I’m alarmed about how this season has started but not panicked enough to suggest that we pay the Gillis premium. BUT ifin a couple more losses the Corsi and my eyes keep suggesting that all the Oilers need are a little more luck and some goaltending and the goaltending can be addressed immediately I say take action.

    I don’t have a problem with the “don’t let the issue linger” idea. And… you are going to overpay on a trade for need at this point of the season always… but you have to at least mitigate your losses by looking out of the division, or finding a GM in the division that won’t extract a ransom.

    Kent Simpson or Antti Raanta out of Rockford would be interesting options (stretch big time for #1 NHL duties now though). we chased Raanta pretty hard in the offseason though (and lost obviously).

  70. misfit says:

    Also, Eddie Lack was MacT’s starting goalie when he coached the Chicago Wolves, and he put up a .925 SV% that year. He’s the same age as Miikka Kiprusoff when Sutter plucked him off the goalie tree in San Jose.

    Of course, familiarity with the player from past coaching days is pretty much the end of that comparison. Kiprusoff was a much better AHL goalie than Lack and had almost 50 NHL games under his belt.

  71. Woodguy says:

    Old School G:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I’m alarmed about how this season has started but not panicked enough to suggest that we pay the Gillis premium. BUT ifin a couple more losses the Corsi and my eyes keep suggesting that all the Oilers need are a little more luck and some goaltending and the goaltending can be addressed immediately I say take action.

    MacT is in a tough spot.

    Do nothing and if nothing improves he an idiot\

    Do something, probably pay too much due to the time of year, doesn’t help much, and he’s an idiot.

    DD involved in the trade and gets back to his norm somewhere else and he’s an idiot

    Do something, pay too much and it helps, he still may be an idiot

    Do nothing, it improves and he’s a lucky idiot

    Do something, don’t pay too much, it help and “finally that idiot did something”

    Not saying he didn’t help make his bed, but its not a comfortable one at all.

  72. Ribs says:

    Remember when Corsi played for the Oilers? You’re old. Hah. Dubnyk’s better than he was…So we still have that.

  73. 719 says:

    Bryz’s agent is saying he turned down a NHL offer

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/27215/with-echl-camp-over-bryz-waits-for-nhl

    Anyone think MacT went calling with a two way deal on the cheap and Bryz turned it down? If rumors are to believed Bryz wants 2 – 2.5 million to play this year.

  74. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    719:
    Bryz’s agent is saying he turned down a NHL offer

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/27215/with-echl-camp-over-bryz-waits-for-nhl

    Anyone think MacT went calling with a two way deal on the cheap and Bryz turned it down?If rumors are to believed Bryz wants 2 – 2.5 million to play this year.

    Yikes! That’s a lot of cheese for a guy that just got bought out and has performed poorly.

    I think MacT probably considered it given the need… but him and Eakins put such a premium on “character” that I’m sure the discussion was short, maybe shorter than any Grabo convo.

    ———-
    BTW does anyone else think Mark Masters (TSN) interviewing Tom Gazzola would be hilarious. like some kind of junior high skit?

  75. RexLibris says:

    Okay, am I reading this right? The Oilers offered 1st round picks in 1996 and …. 1977? for Joseph and Grier? I’m no Stephen Hawking, but that seems a tad suspicious, even for Sather. ;)

    LT! Tugnutt not a value trade! You take that back! lol, seriously though, I always loved Tugnutt, he and goalie Bob (Essensa) if only because on most nights they played, the deck seemed stacked against them.

    Flames down by one to the Ducks at the end of the 1st, Stempniak with a SH.

    Also, Moroz with a goal and a fight last night.

  76. Old School G says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Fair enough, all very good points. I wonder if we were just out bid for Raanta or what happened? In any case I’ll continue to hold out hope for Dubby to rebound or look forward to our next starting goalie and the drama he brings. The wins are bound to start coming one way or another if we carry last night’s play forward now.

  77. TheOtherJohn says:

    Recall quite clearly Ottawa wanted an offensive player and Conancher was an excellent prospect. Jones & a 2nd was really whatever Brian Murray could turn the 2nd into. TB offer clearly better. If someone had suggested PRV and a 3rd there would have been riots in city. We do not like to trade players with potential away.EVER plus I quite like Perron. Wonder if STL wants to trade us PRV?

    If someone had suggested Dubnyk ++ for Jonathan Bernier last June many would have said: JB hasn’t played much, plays in front of better team, doesn’t have better record than DD—–we’d be crazy to make that deal. Today the only questions would be how much of DD salary would we have to eat and what prospects would we have to give up. But hindsight is always 20/20

    Too bad we don’t have any scoring prospects to trade for NHL ready minor league tender or minor league goaltending prospects ready to make the step up

  78. Racki says:

    At the time of the Bishop deal, Conacher was a pretty hot player. So it looked like Ottawa was getting quite a good player in return. Not to say they haven’t, but I’m just saying there is no way Jones comes even close to the value of a Conacher at the time. Maybe Paajarvi might have worked, but I’m glad we got Perron for him. I’m not sure who the Oilers could have given up to make that deal work … if the Sens were really looking for a young offensive talent, I think that would take the Oilers out of the running. How could the Oil compete with that without giving up a star? (which definitely wouldn’t be happening)

    Edit: “Theotherjohn” beat me to the same sort of post.

  79. TheOtherJohn says:

    Agree with WG completely. MacT in horrible position. Problem is that if Oil lose 2 of the next 3 and go .500 balance of month ( 9 out of a possible 28 points) the playoffs become a very very tough row to hoe.

  80. Nostradumbass says:

    Woodguy: MacT is in a tough spot.

    Do nothing and if nothing improves he an idiot\

    Do something, probably pay too much due to the time of year, doesn’t help much, and he’s an idiot.

    DD involved in the trade and gets back to his norm somewhere else and he’s an idiot

    Do something, pay too much and it helps, he still may be an idiot

    Do nothing, it improves and he’s a lucky idiot

    Do something, don’t pay too much, it help and “finally that idiot did something”

    Not saying he didn’t help make his bed, but its not a comfortable one at all.

    Please

    Enough of the over pragmatic pity party, Mact didn’t just help make this bed he built the frame and sewed the quilts

    MacT identified goaltending as an issue early, tried to land the European goalie and Schneider, failed to accomplish on both fronts and then held fort with a goaltender who he basically called out in public

    And so we get no upgrade and a tender with unsuprisingly weak confidence from essentially the start of camp on

    If you don’t think your Goaltending is good enough, fix it and fix it now.

    The Flyers have had top 5 amateur scouting for the past 20 years and nothing to show for it because continuous management teams have punted or flamed out on goaltending solutions

    If you’ve lost confidence in your goaltending the uncomfortable option is to try and wait it out

  81. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Old School G:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Fair enough, all very good points. I wonder if we were just out bid for Raanta or what happened?

    With him and Eriksson (does anyone else remember another Euro G we chased this off-season?), it wasn’t really a matter of dollars, they would have gotten the same Entry Level deal from everyone:

    http://www.capgeek.com/player/2521
    http://www.capgeek.com/player/2524

    I think you can structure the bonuses differently, but basically it’s the same deal (can someone confirm this?).

    The options for the players are “do I want to play here?” and “will I play here?”

    EDM actually would have been an attractive place for a player looking to fast track into the NHL, but both appeared to choose established, high-quality teams over opportunity.

  82. FPB94 says:

    I think MacT is just more of the same and running on the nostalgia of the cup run.

    Shisha.

  83. justDOit says:

    Breezegloveside was just released from his ECHL tryout. He’s available.

  84. MaximumBone says:

    As if this ever happens (and I’m certainly not inclined to trade Yakupov), but I got proposed this deal the other day and thought it was pretty interesting:

    Lehner, Methot, and Greening

    for

    Yakupov, Smid, Marincin/Klefbom, AHL player, and a 2nd

    I, for one, like the idea. Lehner is the closest thing to a sure-bet, young starter that I can imagine could POSSIBLY be available this season. Methot- at least from an outside perspective- looks like an upgrade on Smid at a slightly lower cap hit and Greening brings a fairly strong option to the 3LW position that Joensuu seems unlikely to fill consistently (as he seems a TAD injury prone). We also free up a roster spot!

    We lose Yak, but I think we make our team deeper and more physical in the process. Obviously it’s rum-chugging pirates pipe dream, but I think it holds SOME merit. Any thoughts?

  85. Rebilled says:

    Been outta town since the first game. All arrows pointing at goal even though our starting C was #4.

    Looking forward to coming back next week to be twice as angry.

    2 games on paper looked rather lopsided and the Oilers continue to lose 9/10 close games. Close games and the drive to win them has been a problem. For a long time.

    7 years – 6 cups = nothing.

  86. striatic says:

    Fasth first star against Calgary tonight.

    Anahiem is a team with two excellent Goalies at the NHL level and another one on the way.

    I’d take any one of them.

  87. RexLibris says:

    striatic:
    Fasth first star against Calgary tonight.

    Anahiem is a team with two excellent Goalies at the NHL level and another one on the way.

    I’d take any one of them.

    Flames fan offered me Joey MacDonald for Linus Omark. I said I’d send him the paperwork. ;)

  88. MaximumBone says:

    striatic,

    Don’t forget Frederik Andersen. He seems to put up gaudy numbers wherever he goes. 6’4 250-something.

  89. mumbai max says:

    striatic:
    Fasth first star against Calgary tonight.

    Anahiem is a team with two excellent Goalies at the NHL level and another one on the way.

    I’d take any one of them.

    Two on the way.

  90. DeadmanWaking says:

    Nostradumbass: unsuprisingly weak confidence from essentially the start of camp on

    You do know you’re making excuses for a well-paid athlete crumbling under petty adversity? I used to mope just like that myself back in grade three when I hoisted my arm as if disintegrating Soviet satellites were made of chocolate and the teacher called upon someone else for the second time in a row.

    I think it was less a comment on Dubby than the reality of breaking in a rookie head coach who is coming in to completely tear up the game plan from the previous season. Then, after making the highest bid on the best goalie transacted and coming up short, he hands Dubby the undisputed starting role to seize or sieve. For this Dubby pouts and panics? And then MacT takes the blame?

    Man, you’re going to need some new sheet music when your boy soprano blame cannon grows some balls.

  91. Numenius says:

    Lundqvist shuts out the Caps and the Rangers finally won a game. Hope that’s a portent.

  92. till_horcoff_is_coach says:

    striatic,

    Ducks like their youth and I’m sure they would like to dance…. but definitely for a nice premium and not before the oil have dug themselves too deep for the playoff hunt.

  93. jp says:

    Dead Cat Bounce: Ottawa”s LW depth chart:

    Bobby Ryan

    Milan Michalek

    Clarke McArthur

    Cory Conacher

    Matt Kassian

    Matt Puempel

    Ottawa needs Paajarvi like a fish needs a bicycle.

    In addition to this not being the depth chart when the Bishop trade went down, Paajarvi can play both wings. Your LW depth chart leaves RW depth for Ottawa as:

    Colin Greening

    Chris Neil

    Erik Kondra

    It appears maybe the fish could make use of a bicycle, even after the additions.

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’d take him back in a heart beat.

    As would I. A real useful player. It would be interesting to see how Eakins would like him though. He may not drive the net and put guys through the boards like everyone want, but he plays a very responsible game.
    Romulus Apotheosis:
    FWIW, capgeek already has the 2014 UFA class in a handy presentation. Here’s the Gs:

    http://www.capgeek.com/ufa-finder?position_id=G

    Lundquist is the clear belle of the ball. Any one else you folks fancy? Think they might actually make it to free agency?

    He is, but wow, there are actually quite a few decent, not old goalies on that list. You’re right, the key is how many will still be on the list come July 1st. If that were the list heading into the summer though I’d feel pretty good about replacing Dubnyk.

    Also, Lundqvist is only 31?? Seems he’s been excellent forever. I assumed he was older.

  94. jp says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    Nice point, though I still want to believe the Oilers have a solid starting goalie rather than needing to pay a premium for his replacement.

  95. striatic says:

    mumbai max: Two on the way.

    They need to learn how to share.

  96. delooper says:

    Tonight’s game against New York is a very reasonable, winnable game. Hopefully they start putting it all together in this game.

  97. cabbiesmacker says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: MacT claimed that scalp for his “analytics guys” not his scouts, though I’m sure Gare and Semenko offered some kind of grumbling about it.

    Interesting only because MacT is a self admitted anti advanced stats guy. Unles sof course he did a complete 180 in the last 3 years.

    Thanks for mentioning Gare / Semenko and 100% confirming the issues. If there had been a McKeens published this year I’d bet serious money a 14 year old who’d read it cover to cover would be more up to speed on what’s out there than those two.

    But Oilers patronage appointments

  98. cabbiesmacker says:

    striatic:
    Fasth first star against Calgary tonight.

    Anahiem is a team with two excellent Goalies at the NHL level and another one on the way.

    I’d take any one of them.

    Hiller has one foot out the NHL door and has had for a couple of years. Fasth is largely unproven with 27 games and prior to last night was sporting an .826 SP on a better team than the Oilers. Doubtful that Andersen is available being the heir apparent.

  99. cabbiesmacker says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’d take him back in a heart beat.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it I guess.

    Lets just saw off on it actually being an incredibly lopsided trade for MacFly and see if he has the smarts to repeat the process

  100. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    cabbiesmacker: Interesting only because MacT is a self admitted anti advanced stats guy. Unles sof course he did a complete 180 in the last 3 years.

    Thanks for mentioning Gare / Semenko and 100% confirming the issues. If there had been a McKeens published this year I’d bet serious money a 14 year old who’d read it cover to cover would be more up to speed on what’s out there than those two.

    But Oilers patronage appointments

    You’re right that MacT isn’t 100% on board with analytics… but nor is he full-on Burke.

    The biggest repudiation he gave was more a point of ignorance: at some stats conference he brushed off a presentation claiming he already knew all about it, but referenced a completely different stat. At the same conference he was said to be looking for some all-in-one super stat… not inspiring confidence there.

    BUT… since taking the GM spot he’s referenced an external analytics consulting group they hired a number of times and made reference to what analytics has to say about “shots” “face offs” etc. on a number of occasions.

    He’s not cutting edge like the Sharks, but he’s in the mix.

    ————
    The pro scouts have an abysmal record. You’ll get no argument from me that MacT should have cleaned that house.

  101. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    cabbiesmacker: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it I guess.

    Lets just saw off on it actually being an incredibly lopsided trade for MacFly and see if he has the smarts to repeat the process

    I still think the trade was solid for both parties. Don’t forget the Blues also got a 2nd. Magnus hasn’t worked out there yet… but it’s still early. He’s playing tonight and who knows, maybe he plays the rest of the season to great success…

    If they move him, they’ll probably get a 2nd for him. So… that’s basically 2 2nds for Peron. Not an unreasonable price.

  102. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Whenever the game day thread arrives, would it be too much to ask for that picture of Ron Low to stick around in some way… also, I think we need some stan weir.

  103. Gret99zky says:

    delooper:
    Tonight’s game against New York is a very reasonable, winnable game.Hopefully they start putting it all together in this game.

    That New York team isn’t the same pushover team it was a few years ago. I bet the Oilers are in for a big challenge.

  104. Gret99zky says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Whenever the game day thread arrives, would it be too much to ask for that picture of Ron Low to stick around in some way… also, I think we need some stan weir.

    I think we need some Seven of Nine or some Salma Hayek.

    And cowbell. Lots and lots of cowbell.

  105. mps91 says:

    Some trade rumours out of Buffalo, just in case you’re into that kind of thing…

    http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/bucky-gleason/word-is-getting-around-on-darcy-sabres-making-deal-20131016

  106. russ99 says:

    mps91,

    I love Tomas Vanek, but even if he were in a Miller for Yak plus pieces deal, I’d still be bitter about it.

    Yak has the lowest trade value he’s going to have unless he goes back to Russia, and it still seems a desparation move, since Vanek would be a rental.

    Trading a uber-talented scorer to Buffalo in a now vs. future move because of lack of management patience and being able to work with European players? Reminds me way too much of the Miro Satan trade.

  107. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    mps91:
    Some trade rumours out of Buffalo, just in case you’re into that kind of thing…

    http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/bucky-gleason/word-is-getting-around-on-darcy-sabres-making-deal-20131016

    Thanks for the link

    And just so you know, there was talk Wednesday afternoon that the Sabres were working on a deal with Edmonton that would send Ryan Miller or Thomas Vanek and possibly both to the Oilers in a package that would bring Nail Yakupov and more to Buffalo. Whether it actually happens is another story. But as it stood Wednesday, the two sides had considered, or were considering, a major swap.

    two things, both obvious.

    1. I’m calling bullshit. No way is that trade close to equitable. A partial year of Vanek and a slightly above average and expensive goaltender are not near worth Yakupov under salary and mgt. constraints for years. Not close. This is bushleague blue skying by other markets.

    2. How in hell is taking on all that cap money in exchange for a player on an ELC supposed to work? Where is the roughly 13M supposed to come from?

  108. DawnM says:

    K someone explain to me why on earth we would trade Dubnyk for an older version with roughly equivalent career stats in Miller based on a handful of bad games. There’s no logic in that. Not that fans are remotely logical… It’s not like Miller is likely to have a breakout season at 33 and suddenly become the stud goaltender we all want.

  109. gcw_rocks says:

    Lowetide,

    “MacT isn’t going to deal Yakupov. People are working themselves into a lather for no reason.”

    A lot of people said MacT wasn’t going to go whale hunting during Free Agency and then he went hard after David Clarkson.

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