#10 PROSPECT: GREG CHASE

The least likely member of this year’s top 10 is Greg Chase. Taken so late in the entry draft 2013 the cleaning staff had moved the vacuum cleaners into the arena hallway, Greg Chase has the look of an exceptional draft steal.

PREVIOUSLY NUMBER TEN ON THE WINTER LIST

  • December 2004: D Roman Tesliuk (0)
  • December 2005: L Dragan Umicevic (0)
  • December 2006: D Taylor Chorney (61)
  • December 2007: D Jeff Petry (180)
  • December 2008: L Linus Omark (66)
  • December 2009: C Anton Lander (68)
  • December 2010: D Alex Plante (10)
  • December 2011: D David Musil (0)
  • December 2012: D Dillon Simpson (0)

Petry was a second round pick and I was slow to recognize him, other than that we’re about right I’d say. The #10 slot shouldn’t produce many players (no system is that deep) unless it’s a goalie or a college defenseman (this is me changing script to cover ass). Chase’s story is promising, and he does appear to be a prospect on his way to better days. An agitator and a skill player, he’s also a center.

 WHAT THEY SAID ON DRAFT DAY

  • chase1Pronman: Chase entered the season with a decent amount of hype and he figured to make a push to be drafted in the top two rounds. While he was somewhat underwhelming, his skills make him worth knowing, the best of which is his hockey sense. Scouts praise his offensive mind and vision. He can slow the game down when he has the puck, hit targets through small lanes, and move the puck quickly when need be. He also has good hands, and when he is on, his offensive upside is apparent. His skating earns divided opinions, with one scout calling it a positive, and another saying his first steps can be a tad sluggish. His physical game and consistency are areas of concern as well. He has average size, but he does not tend to be imposing with his board work. Finally, his game-to-game on-ice work ethic could use improvement, especially in the defensive end.
  • Red Line Report: “A real Red Line favourite who flies under the radar. He’s a fine puck distributor who shows great patience and possesses the touch to constantly find linemates off the cycle. Keeps feet going after making a pass to sustain pressure in offensive zone. Versatile forward has spent time on every line and been effective in every role. Shows up every shift and his play away from the puck is impressive, makes things happen by constantly filling open ice. Refuses to back down in contested areas; first player into the corners. Wide skating stance helps him maintain balance and uses edges well to maximize glide. Hungry player has a great compete level and looks to make a difference every shift. Not as dynamic offensively as other prospects on this list, but plays a well-rounded, consistent game.”
  • Chase: “I didn’t even watch (the draft) because I was so nervous. I was at my lake and we were all sitting around. When I got the phone call, it was pretty incredible celebrating that proud moment with my whole family.”

POINTS BY DISCIPLINE, GREG CHASE

PLAYER EV PP PK TOTAL
CHASE 2012-13 69, 13-23-36 69, 3-9-12 69, 1-0-1 69, 17-32-49
CHASE 2013-14 23, 10-7-17 23, 4-4-8 23, 0-0-0 23, 14-11-25

This is exactly what you hope for after the draft but it rarely happens. Major step forward offensively at even strength and on the power play, meaning his TOI and production increased in lock step with roster turnover. Chase is moving up the depth chart and should be productive this year and we should look for a dominant season in 2014-15 with the Hitmen. Chase has cooled recently, but that happens over a long season. His early season was exceptional.

PREVIOUS TOP 20 RANKING

  • Summer 2013: 19
  • Winter 2013: 10

WHAT THEY’RE SAYING THIS SEASON

  • CHASE 13133131Eastern conference scout:“When his game is on and he’s doing the work of the foot soldier [Chase] is a pretty effective player, but he’s got to decide what kind of player he wants to be.”
  • Chase:“If I can get into a groove early and get the points rolling, it’s only going to help our team. I know last year I was asked if I had a goal and I said 50. This year, I’d say a point-per-game would be a reasonable goal for myself. Maybe it’ll be more than that. With the amount of icetime I get, if I’m not putting up a point per game, I wouldn’t say it’s a failure, but I wouldn’t be doing my job.”
  • Included in Subway Series against Russia, along with Jujhar Khaira and Mitchell Moroz.
  • Hitmen coach Mike Williamson: “Greg’s a very gifted hockey player.  Offensively, if he gets an opportunity he can do something with it. We’ve seen him finish a lot of chances this year and he’s done a good job in that area. Greg’s got to continue to develop as an all-around player and be hard-working player all the time. That’s an area I think he’s made strides in, but has a long ways to go.”
  • Mitchell Moroz: “We know the kind of player he is and we know he’s not going to do anything — he’s not going to challenge anybody. He tries to be a pest, but he doesn’t do a very good job of it.” (this quote is from last spring and is hilarious now that they’re both Oilers prospects).

ETA CHASE

This is a difficult question to answer, because we’re not quite certain what Chase will be on arrival. There’s probably a “responsible energy forward” job available for him when he’s ready, but there’s also a chance he’ll spend his NHL career closer to the heart of the order. If Chase (6.0, 204) can play on a skill line, that changes the dynamic in a big way.

Chase is a fascinating player, because his 17-year old season warranted a much better draft number and his early 18-year old season appears to confirm it but these are early days. Folks, we don’t know what he is yet. Here’s a comparison between Chase and other recent WHL players chosen by Edmonton in their draft+1 seasons (ranked by EV points per game):

PLAYER EV PP PK TOTAL
CURTIS HAMILTON 2010-11 62, 17-33-50 .806 62, 6-18-24 .387 62, 3-5-8 62, 26-56-82 1.32
GREG CHASE 2013-14 23, 10-7-17 .739 23, 4-4-8 .348 23, 0-0-0 23, 14-11-25 1.09
TYLER PITLICK 2010-11 56, 22-19-41 .732 56, 5-16-21 .375 56, 0-0-0 56, 27-35-62 1.11
JORDAN EBERLE 2008-09 61, 20-13-33 .541 61, 12-24-36 .590 61, 3-2-5 61, 35-39-74 1.21

It’s interesting to compare the quality of team each player had around him:

  • Hamilton’s team scored 221 even-strength goals in 72 games (3.07 per game)
  • Pitlick’s team scored 180 even-strength goals in 72 games (2.50 per game)
  • Chase’s team has scored 51 even-strength goals in 24 games (2.12 per game)
  • Eberle’s team scored 152 even-strength goals in 72 games (2.11 per game)

I don’t know what to make of all of this, Eberle’s team was absolutely the worst of the group and in my opinion he would have rocked the WHL at 18 on another team. What that tells us about Chase after 23 games? If you could tell me, I’d be in your debt. 23 games in, he looks like the modern Bobby Clarke, but we have no TOI or shots on goal and let’s not go crazy here until we go crazy here. Crazy.

I’ll bet you money based on his interviews Greg Chase is not thinking about making it to the NHL in an offensive role—but there might be a real player here (small sample size alert).

I’m standing on that very narrow ledge in picking Greg Chase as the #10 prospect in the organization.

We wait.

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40 Responses to "#10 PROSPECT: GREG CHASE"

  1. D says:

    Quite a consensus in the fan base that one of these late round picks has to really pan out in order for the Oil to compete for the Stanley Cup. Chase is definitely trending in the right direction.

  2. nycoil says:

    Very interesting player. Love that we took a chance on him so late in the draft. I haven’t gotten a chance to see him play from here, but how does he stack up against a guy like Perron (similar size, similar penchant it seems for getting under the opposition’s skin)? I know Perron’s one QMJHL year’s boxcars blow Chase’s from last year out of the water, but if he could bring 60% of the offense, while playing an agitating style that gets under the opposition’s skin, we’d have a valuable 3rd liner.

  3. justDOit says:

    Bucky: “You know, Greg, that Nichushkin guy is killing us.”

    Chase: “Yeah…”

  4. Caramel Obvious says:

    On the previous thread someone asked for a numerical comparison of Ehrhoff and Phaneuf, so here goes.

    I have an adjusted +/- formula which substitutes component stats for actual goals for and allowed. Basically for goals for, I use points (where goals are weighted more heavily and second assists, less) and SF. For goals against I use only SA (this is the anti-Ricki formula where goalies are irrelevant). I then adjust the raw number for zone starts, Qcomp and Qteam.

    If you do this you get the following results:

    12-13:

    Ehrhoff: +10 (a very good number, easily best on Sabres_
    Phaneuf: +4 (solid, second best on Leafs behind Fransom and tied with Gunnerson)

    11-12
    Phaneuf: +4 (best on Leafs)
    Erhrhoff: -1 (2nd best on Sabres behind Sekera)

    So these numbers have them as basically exactly even over the past two years.

    This year Erhoff is in the 47% Fenwick range on the worst team in the league while taking extreme defensive zone starts (39%)

    Phaneuf is 41% Fenwick on a terrible possession team while getting 42% zone starts.

    So this year the context is similar but Ehrhoff is holding his head higher.

    I’m pretty confident Erhoff is the better player. Phaneuf is good but he’s contract has the potential to be killer.

  5. Woodguy says:

    Its been talked about in previous threads, but I wonder how much “identifying under utilized players” played into this past draft.

    Nurse didn’t get prime PP while shutting down the toughest opp. Might have had as good of numbers as Jones if he got PP1 last year.

    Marco Roy wasn’t getting PP1 and had 2nd line duty.

    Chase falls into the same category, although he fell way past his draft number.

    Maybe no one wanted to deal with his Dad? :)

    You could even make a slight case for Moroz not getting the same type of ice times as higher drafted players until this year, but draft +2 years should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Lots of players had +1pt/gm draft +2 years in the CHL and never made it to the NHL.

    Most weren’t as big as Moroz or skated like him though…..

    The early returns on Chase are unreal, I can see why LT writes this post like he’s trying really hard not to offend a hockey god or two lest something happen to Chase and/or his production.

    Any idea on his SH% this year?

  6. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    Its been talked about in previous threads, but I wonder how much “identifying under utilized players” played into this past draft.

    Nurse didn’t get prime PP while shutting down the toughest opp.Might have had as good of numbers as Jones if he got PP1 last year.

    Marco Roy wasn’t getting PP1 and had 2nd line duty.

    Chase falls into the same category, although he fell way past his draft number.

    Maybe no one wanted to deal with his Dad? :)

    You could even make a slight case for Moroz not getting the same type of ice times as higher drafted players until this year, but draft +2 years should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Lots of players had +1pt/gm draft +2 years in the CHL and never made it to the NHL.

    Most weren’t as big as Moroz or skated like him though…..

    The early returns on Chase are unreal, I can see why LT writes this post like he’s trying really hard not to offend a hockey god or two lest something happen to Chase and/or his production.

    Any idea on his SH% this year?

    I’ve looked everywhere for WHL sog. No luck.

  7. dangilitis says:

    Not that I disagree with Belov’s inclusion, but why is Arcobello not also on your list? He’s played 1 NHL game prior to last year and still considered a rookie. Or is he on your list, but you’ve slotted him lower (which would be unthinkable!!).

    I would have put him # 3 or #4.

  8. Lowetide says:

    dangilitis:
    Not that I disagree with Belov’s inclusion, but why is Arcobello not also on your list? He’s played 1 NHL game prior to last year and still considered a rookie. Or is he on your list, but you’ve slotted him lower (which would be unthinkable!!).

    I would have put him # 3 or #4.

    The list is 30 deep.

  9. Logan91 says:

    Lowetide: I’ve looked everywhere for WHL sog. No luck.

    Here’s a little read on WHL advanced stats.

    http://www.thestarphoenix.com/sports/Squad+looking+advanced+statistics+edge/9001609/story.html

  10. Lowetide says:

    Logan: Great find! Awesome. My wife was born in Outlook, it’s weird to see it in a news article.

  11. dangilitis says:

    Fair enough, I trust you know what you are doing a lot better than I. I guess if we truly look at players at prospects, it is easy to see how many players will project to play larger roles in the future by comparison as Arco. Particularly the D-men, which I assume is why so many in the top 10 are D.

    Khaira may be a top 9 forward. Arcobello (and please let me preface this by saying I am not in the camp that says Arcobello has usurped Gagner or that we should necessarily be trading either for spare parts) has filled in rather admirably as a #2 center and held his own. I am not sure I would have believed it until I saw it, but that just happened. I am not sure I will believe that Chase, Khaira, or Yakimov can be top 6 forward, and even Roy for that matter

    I noted early that your rankings take note of “Range of skills, Offense, and Established leagues” and do not “give more weight to: proximity to the NHL”

    For those last 2 points (established leagues and proximity to the NHL), I would argue that the NHL is the most established league there is so it is a bit of an oxymoron there, because players who are closer to the NHL by virtue of where they are playing are in more established leagues.

    For the range of skills I would agree that Arcobello falls to the bottom of this group, but it is certainly not a big gap.

    For offense: Arcobello has NHLE 2012-13 of 25 points in 82 games.
    2013-14, in a short time, that shot up to 49 pts in 82 games.

    For Roy, I got a NHLE of roughly 24 pts in 82 last year (NHLE of 0.28 is that accurate?)

    So I would argue that in 2/3 of these key categories, Arcobello is top 1 or 2 of all prospect forwards. In the 3rd, he has less range of offensive skills, but his hockey IQ and defensive skills were pretty sharp, no?

  12. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Continuing the thread of conversation from last article:

    I think “insane value” is about right for a top ten draft pick, which I think it is safe to say EDM will have, maybe higher.

    The context here is that the value is probably going to increase as we get nearer to the draft and scouts start to salivate at certain players of interest and whisper sweet nothings to GMs.

    Now, that value can be spent by EDM in one of two ways: keep or trade. Both, IMO, equal insane value.

    The chance to pick another impact player — Draisaitl is my crazy love of the year — can’t be dismissed so easily, even if we want to send the right signals to players and worry about acquisition via free agency, etc.

    If we are looking at 1Ds… Erhoff is my choice and I think we should look at the last big D trade as somewhat comparable:

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=663317

    22nd OV and a couple of spare parts. Now, Jbow was a UFA and that changes a lot in the Erhoff comp.

    But, I don’t think we should undervalue what will certainly be a much higher draft pick.

  13. Logan91 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Is Ehrhoff truly a number 1D though?

    And is it really worth giving up that much for only 3 years of him?

  14. Southern Oil says:

    Off topic – does anyone have a link for the football game?

  15. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Logan91:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Is Ehrhoff truly a number 1D though?

    And is it really worth giving up that much for only 3 years of him?

    He is if you take these general principles as requirements:

    Plays ≥ 24min TOI
    Plays all 3 disciplines; ≥ 2min PK and PP TOI
    Plays them all well
    Scores at a reasonable rate

    Basically, we’re talking about someone who can easily be considered in the top 30 Ds in the league.

    Erhoff is in there. He’s not Weber, but on any realistic list he’s a top pairing D.

    ———
    What do you mean by 3 years? he’s under contract till the end of time and probably won’t retire for 5-6 more years.

    Is he worth a top ten pick?

    I’m not really qualified to answer, and as I tried to indicate above, that pick needs to be highly valued by us so as not to part with it flippantly.

    My guess is 4 years of a bona fide 1LD (he may play after 4, but we should expect his play to deteriorate) is probably worth sacrificing another potential impact player. This team needs to be better NOW.

    It will be a tough pill to swallow… and it better be for a damn good player, Erhoff good.

  16. Logan91 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Until what year is he signed for?

  17. Marc says:

    Apparently MacT ‘overrates’ his players, so is asking for high prices in any trades

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/11/23/phillys-captain-claude-giroux-set-for-sochi-olympics

    I’m totally cool with that.

  18. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Logan91:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Until what year is he signed for?

    http://www.capgeek.com/player/121

    20-21

    That cap hit is crazy low for a player of his calibre… the kicker is that if he retires, BUF eats the salary recapture as the signing team regardless of which team he is playing for at the time.

    That, and the huge up front bonus and the fact that BUF’s D core is laden with kids fresh off the truck make it hard to know what they might do.

  19. Lowetide says:

    dangilitis:
    Fair enough, I trust you know what you are doing a lot better than I. I guess if we truly look at players at prospects, it is easy to see how many players will project to play larger roles in the future by comparison as Arco. Particularly the D-men, which I assume is why so many in the top 10 are D.

    Khaira may be a top 9 forward. Arcobello (and please let me preface this by saying I am not in the camp that says Arcobello has usurped Gagner or that we should necessarily be trading either for spare parts) has filled in rather admirably as a #2 center and held his own. I am not sure I would have believed it until I saw it, but that just happened. I am not sure I will believe that Chase, Khaira, or Yakimov can be top 6 forward, and even Roy for that matter

    I noted early that your rankings take note of “Range of skills, Offense, and Established leagues” and do not “give more weight to: proximity to the NHL”

    For those last 2 points (established leagues and proximity to the NHL), I would argue that the NHL is the most established league there is so it is a bit of an oxymoron there, because players who are closer to the NHL by virtue of where they are playing are in more established leagues.

    For the range of skills I would agree that Arcobello falls to the bottom of this group, but it is certainly not a big gap.

    For offense: Arcobello has NHLE 2012-13 of 25 points in 82 games.
    2013-14, in a short time, that shot up to 49 pts in 82 games.

    For Roy, I got a NHLE of roughly 24 pts in 82 last year (NHLE of 0.28 is that accurate?)

    So I would argue that in 2/3 of these key categories, Arcobello is top 1 or 2 of all prospect forwards. In the 3rd, he has less range of offensive skills, but his hockey IQ and defensive skills were pretty sharp, no?

    Arcobello is an older prospect—much older—and a kid like Khaira should (all things being equal) develop a lot more before turning 20. I mean no disrespect to Arcobello, he’s made incredible things happen, but for me he’s not among the top 10 prospects.

  20. Logan91 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I said before i’m all for Ehrhoff, I think he’s a great player.

    I’m just wondering what everyone else thinks and if he’s really the guy for the Oilers.

  21. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Logan91: if he’s really the guy for the Oilers.

    Depends on two things out of our control:

    How much BUF values draft picks this year vs. having a great defensemen

    Who MacT covets (i.e., it may well be Phaneuf as LT suggests or someone else)

  22. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Marc:
    Apparently MacT ‘overrates’ his players, so is asking for high prices in any trades

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/11/23/phillys-captain-claude-giroux-set-for-sochi-olympics

    I’m totally cool with that.

    Most interesting part of that piece is this:

    “said a league executive. He should be able to get a top pick for UFA RW Ales Hemsky”

    I don’t know what “top pick” means here, but if it’s a first rounder that would be full value IMO. I’d still rather keep the player somehow, but getting a first rounder is a lot better than some middling return we’ve all come to expect.

  23. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Most interesting part of that piece is this:

    “said a league executive. He should be able to get a top pick for UFA RW Ales Hemsky”

    I don’t know what “top pick” means here, but if it’s a first rounder that would be full value IMO. I’d still rather keep the player somehow, but getting a first rounder is a lot better than some middling return we’ve all come to expect.

    One would think a 1st rounder, that’s a good return. I hope they sign him, but suspect with Yakupov and Eberle ready to roll for the next decade it’ll be 83 exiting.

  24. justDOit says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    How much BUF values draft picks this year…

    As the OIlers well know, when you already have the top pick locked up, you tend to think about grabbing another top 3 pick to accelerate the rebuild. I feel that it’s fairly enticing to look at another lotto pick for Buffalo. If you can get a steady guy like Nultz (wink wink) thrown in, then it’s a no-brainer. No. Brainer.

  25. VanOil says:

    Lowetide: One would think a 1st rounder, that’s a good return. I hope they sign him, but suspect with Yakupov and Eberle ready to roll for the next decade it’ll be 83 exiting.

    Following this (with the caveat I would like to keep Hemsky) would good asset management not be too trade the Oilers 1st + Prospect + whatever for Ehrhoff if availble. Then get a 1st round pick back for Hemsky and replace the 2nd round pick by trading N.Schultz at the deadline unless of course Buffalo wants him.

    Mind you the Hemsky for Zibanejad rumor was the best return I have heard for him in years. Which is saying something as he might have the all time blogosphere record for trades not to mention the MSM weekly tickets out of town.

  26. nelson88 says:

    LT.

    I missed this if it came up on the Khaira thread. Will be curious to see where Moroz ranks in relation.

    I like both prospects but Moroz is out scoring quite significantly in the same league/ draft year, etc. Khaira in the lead due to position, team scoring effects, better eye brows?

  27. nelson88 says:

    p.s. GO RIDERS!

    that was for Missus LT

  28. Caramel Obvious says:

    Everyone do yourselves a favour and follow Bryzgalov on twitter. Great stuff today.

  29. stevezie says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    What is his handle? I just found parodies.

  30. Caramel Obvious says:

    stevezie,

    stevezie,

    I was fooled. I blame woodguy.

  31. stevezie says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    He also got me into gambling. Woodguy is a bad influence and you shouldn’t hang out with him.
    (I’m just shy of even)

  32. Woodguy says:

    stevezie:
    Caramel Obvious,

    He also got me into gambling. Woodguy is a bad influence and you shouldn’t hang out with him.
    (I’m just shy of even)

    This is true.

  33. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: http://www.capgeek.com/player/121

    20-21

    That cap hit is crazy low for a player of his calibre… the kicker is that if he retires, BUF eats the salary recapture as the signing team regardless of which team he is playing for at the time.

    That, and the huge up front bonus and the fact that BUF’s D core is laden with kids fresh off the truck make it hard to know what they might do.

    When Ehrhof’s take home pay falls way off (relatively speaking), does anyone expect him to play?

    17/18 is probably his last year in the NHL.

    2011-12 $10,000,000.00
    2012-13 $8,000,000.00
    2013-14 $4,000,000.00
    2014-15 $4,000,000.00
    2015-16 $4,000,000.00
    2016-17 $4,000,000.00
    2017-18 $3,000,000.00
    2018-19 $1,000,000.00
    2019-20 $1,000,000.00
    2020-21 $1,000,000.00

    4 solid years of a 1LD to help lead this team out of darkness is surely worth a top 10 pick in many drafts.

    Gotta look at the now with this team.

    MacT is right to be impatient.

    Hope he gets a good Dman.

    I like most of his gets so far.

  34. Hammers says:

    Surprised in some ways LT . Your rankings have always baffled me . #10 but on what true basis of his playing time .Hope you have heard the saying a bird in the hand and that’s what Arcobello is . Surprised you don’t see it but it’s your blog . PS Go Eskies .

  35. jp says:

    Woodguy:

    Any idea on his SH% this year?

    Lowetide: I’ve looked everywhere for WHL sog. No luck.

    Coach said: “Offensively, if he gets an opportunity he can do something with it. We’ve seen him finish a lot of chances this year and he’s done a good job in that area”

    Sounds like he’s either clutch or has a high shooting %.

  36. jp says:

    Lowetide: I don’t know what to make of all of this, Eberle’s team was absolutely the worst of the group and in my opinion he would have rocked the WHL at 18 on another team. What that tells us about Chase after 23 games? If you could tell me, I’d be in your debt. 23 games in, he looks like the modern Bobby Clarke, but we have no TOI or shots on goal and let’s not go crazy here until we go crazy here. Crazy.

    Dividing each players PPG by their teams EV GPG gives some kind of normalization that places the players we know where we know they should be:

    Eberle 0.573
    Chase 0.514
    Pitlick 0.440
    Hamilton 0.430

    This “metric” is obviously flawed (even calling it a metric is a stretch), but Chase looks really good by it. It does at least indicate he’s having a great season.

    It sure looks like this kid has an outside chance, which is as much as you can ask for from a 7th rounder.

  37. Lowetide says:

    Hammers:
    Surprised in some ways LT . Your rankings have always baffled me . #10 but on what true basis of his playing time .Hope you have heard the saying a bird in the hand and that’s what Arcobello is . Surprised you don’t see it but it’s your blog . PS Go Eskies .

    My rankings have remained the same since the beginning, and are certainly flawed (as seen in looking back) but have remained focus on potential. Arcobello is an older prospect, and while he did move up the rankings, I don’t see him as having the same potential.

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2013/07/summer-top-30.html

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2012/11/a-few-words-about-the-top-20.html

  38. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Yak is a train wreck out there. I’m not convinced 5 forwards on the pp versus the pkers the Hawks can send out is a good idea.

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