BURNING DAYLIGHT

The Edmonton Oilers are now 4-11-2 and screwed blue for the 2013-14 season. We’re not far from the ten year anniversary of the 2006 run and the playoffs remain a distant bell.

Here’s the thing: they played a pretty damn good road game last night against a good team and lost by one goal. Sure, they had too many dumb defensive plays and were absolutely robbed on more than one occasion, but they were in that game all the way, and the edge in play (on the road!) and the SOG favored the Oilers. If they keep playing that well, they’ll get the breaks. Life can be a bitch. Edmonton Oiler fans, this is the point in a fan’s life where long walks and movies and finding a member of the opposite sex might be good for mental health. Seriously.

hoffs

EVEN STRENGTH SP

  • 2010-11: .921
  • 2011-12: .927
  • 2012-13: .922
  • 2013-14: .876

This is Devan Dubnyk in a box. If you believe Dubnyk will return to the 920′s then making a deal is a silly idea. If you don’t, then making a trade is the right call. Personally,  I remain convinced he’s got more left in the tank. It’s also true they need a stronger option behind him, someone who could be dropped in as a #1 if the slide to Salo-level continues.

DEFENSE

At this point, I’m not absolutely certain of the top 6 based on merit. Jeff Petry is the bpa on the Oiler blue, but after that (imo) the group seems to be a blur 2-9. Taylor Fedun and Phil Larsen have stepped in and looked fine, and the fact that Andrew Ference, Nick Schultz and Ladislsav Smid have been inconsistent (wildly so) is cause for concern. Honestly, this club needs a steady veteran who can chime in with Petry and play the toughs, and they need it now.

It’s always interesting to see who gets used by the coach, in last night’s comments Larsen was getting plenty of love but it’s important to see how much the coach was using him. A coach uses his defensemen based on their effectiveness, time on ice reflects a lot:

  1. Phil Larsen 23:34 (2:47 on PP)
  2. Ladislav Smid 22:38 (2:30 on PK)
  3. Andrew Ference 22:24 (1:30 on PK)
  4. Jeff Petry 20:20 (1:30 on PK)
  5. Taylor Fedun 14:26
  6. Nick Schultz 14:19 (2:30 on PK)

Huh. Phil Larsen. He’s a 5-6 who played a lot of minutes last night. If that trend continued we would have a story. When Justin Schultz comes back, the right side rotation (which had been Petry, Justin Schultz and then a vet like Nick Schultz) but Larsen and Fedun may force the issue here.

Nick Schultz, the walls are closing in Sir.

TAYLOR HALL

hall eberle gif

 

Taylor Hall, that is all. What mountain can we give him next? A goal, 8 shots, and the man I call “Chance” took it to the limits seconds after leaving the infirmary. I consider myself 100 times lucky to be an Oiler fan with Taylor Hall as the driver, and wish him myriad success. He’s a psycho killer on skates, this #4. Welcome back, Taylor. We missed you.

The club is burning daylight, those early years of Hall’s Oiler career. For that reason alone, I think MacT needs to fix the goaltending now. Go get Hiller, and sign him.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

hoffs3

A lot going on today, 10 this morning TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

10-1260 (texts have been great, thanks) and twitter @Lowetide_ Hope you tune in!

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148 Responses to "BURNING DAYLIGHT"

  1. bookje says:

    Kevin Dineen fired – Oilers are expanding horizontally with their coach killing abilities!

  2. leadfarmer says:

    Fedun and Larsen have looked pretty good other than a few rookie mistakes that the rest of the team does anyway. That pretty much describes the quality of the blue that a couple rookies can come in and not look out of place.

  3. leadfarmer says:

    BTW, you cant blame Dubnyk for Bishop absolutely stealing the game. If only a goalie like Bishop was available on the trade market for cheap.

    The game plan should have been contain Stamkos, which they failed at miserably.

  4. pboy says:

    I wonder if Bishop would have been an Oiler if it was MPS instead of Jones offered?

  5. Henry says:

    That Rick sure makes her look good.

  6. Lowetide says:

    leadfarmer:
    BTW, you cant blame Dubnyk for Bishop absolutely stealing the game.If only a goalie like Bishop was available on the trade market for cheap.

    The game plan should have been contain Stamkos, which they failed at miserably.

    Everyone is failing miserably at containing Stamkos, that was my point last night. He might be the second best player in the game today.

    Craig Ramsay part of the bloodletting in Florida. BRILLIANT coach, hire him now!!!!

  7. wordbird says:

    speaking of goaltending, don’t recall hearing any injury news/timetable on Richard Bachmann…

  8. sliderule says:

    Dubnyk has screwed the pooch for the oil.Save percentage .878 and about 1.2 more goals /game than last year just doesn’t cut it.
    At least two of the three he let in last night were weak.Stamkos second one was not as hard as Halls pass to yak on first turnover.
    The oil have to play out season and dump whatever deadweight they can at trade deadline and scour AHL and Europe for at least one promising prospect via trade or free agency.

  9. Henry says:

    There will be interesting times ahead. Larsen and Fedun are putting adding some nice competition to the D group. We haven’t seen Klefbom and Marincin up and there are decent 30 year old vets. I don’t know the pressure is responsible, but I’ve liked NSchultz’ play more recently. He’s been nastier and jumping into the offence occasionally.

    The forwards were buzzing yesterday honestly they looked like they were getting all the confidence the lost last Saturday back. It was a pretty good 12 and now they have to find room for Perron and JJ. Competition is good. Depth is good.

    I don’t know what to do about the goalie situation. They are crazy. Hiller would be fine, but trading Hemsky (as a terrifying example) within the division will hurt the Oilers for 5 years.

  10. russ99 says:

    A little health, healthy competition for jobs and more saves would do wonders.

  11. Henry says:

    Craig Ramsey would be a nice consultant for the forwards in the D zone. Charlie Huddy would be nice for the D men. Alas..

  12. oliveoilers says:

    A coach fired for not living up to the expectations of a franchise in FLORIDA! If I was Eakins, I would be jumping every time my phone chimed.

  13. fuzzy muppet says:

    Hypothetically, would you trade this year’s #1 pick(likely bottom 5) for Gibson from Anaheim (he’s not established but he looks like the next great goaler)?

    Would Anaheim??

  14. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “Personally, I remain convinced he’s got more left in the tank. It’s also true they need a stronger option behind him, someone who could be dropped in as a #1 if the slide to Salo-level continues.”

    This year we are learning about depth and failsafes. MacT worked hard to build in depth and failsafes in the offseason at all the positions.

    We are discovering two things:

    1) depth can prove a mirage if it is merely broad and not deep.

    At Forward: Perron, Joensuu, Jones, Acton, Hamilton, Smac, Gazdic all added. Too thin.

    At Defence: Belov, Ference, Larsen, Grebs all added. Too thin.

    At Goal: Labarbera, Bachman added. Too thin.

    THis is a pretty amazing series of additions in such a short span. But the calibre isn’t high enough, which leads to the next point.

    2) When the depth is merely broad and not deep, your failsafes crack… too many fuses blown and the house is on fire.

    At all 3 positions the depth has blown in the face of adversity (not in all cases mind you, but in enough to frustrate success). The back-up plans have all failed. This isn’t supposed to happen.

    Part of this is simply luck. There is no way to know, for example, Dubnyk would be so far from his former self. Moreover, that Labarbera would race to best Dubnyk in horribleness. Or, that Bachman would blow a tire.

    You hope your first plan works and if not one of your failsafes can hold back the tide. We’ve been screwed by luck.

    The other part is simply even with great luck this team still lacks deep depth. That takes more than one offseason to build.

    It was going to take magic to make the playoffs this year… everything working right together.

    What we’ve got is a year for MacT to gain a tighter grasp on the markets, for Eakins to mould his team and either a sweet trade chip or Leon Draisaitl.

  15. Colieo87 says:

    Can some on please explain to me why dilthers only signed Justin Schultz to a 2 year and not a 3 year ECL ? I’ve been a oh fan of him and Tyler Fedun. Keep playing a steady offensive D Tyler show Schultz how’s it’s done. =) I Need that opposite sex movie dates, cause it’s going to be a long winter in Oil country.

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    pboy:
    I wonder if Bishop would have been an Oiler if it was MPS instead of Jones offered?

    Why would OTT want MPS when they have 45 left wingers and are seriously considering trading for a clone of Conacher?
    ;)

  17. 719 says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    Hypothetically, would you trade this year’s #1 pick(likely bottom 5) for Gibson from Anaheim (he’s not established but he looks like the next great goaler)?

    Would Anaheim??

    I wouldn’t for three reasons:

    1. I think playoffs are out of the question this year.

    2. Next year there are ALOT of good young UFA goalies. Guys looking for a chance to be a #1

    Scrivens, Khudobin, Gustavsson, Greiss.

    3. Next year there are some good established goalies also going UFA:

    Halak/Elliott, Miller and HilIer

  18. Henry says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    Hypothetically, would you trade this year’s #1 pick(likely bottom 5) for Gibson from Anaheim (he’s not established but he looks like the next great goaler)?

    Would Anaheim??

    Anaheim would be foolish not to make that trade considering they have four good guys that need ice time. This is a problem for them and a high first is extremely valuable.

    Too much from the Oilers perspective. Something like swap firsts and a prospect for Gibson might be right. Perhaps Simpson for Gibson straight up?

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “Phil Larsen 23:34 (2:47 on PP)”

    Noted this last night and I was extremely impressed by him. But one caveat deserves being mentioned…

    score effects on TOI. It seems likely Eakins gave Larsen the push to regain the lead. Not sure why he kept him with Smid in that case… but it still seems likely.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Not suggesting anything is imminent, but saying Tallon has tried mighty hard to find a trade fit over last couple of weeks

    9 minutes ago
    @tsnscottcullen: Panthers 21st in Fenwick Close, Lightning 20th. http://t.co/QWkCvqomX2 Huge difference between Ben Bishop & Tim Thomas/Jacob Markstrom.

    10 minutes ago
    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: The next move for Dale Tallon will be to make a trade or two to shake up roster. He’s been trying hard for a while.

    11 minutes ago
    @tsnscottcullen: Panthers aren’t good, but results could be dramatically different with better goaltending.

  21. goldenchild says:

    I was thinking of teams we have seen goaltending this bad on and rght away 2005-06 came to mind. Looking back it’s amazing to think how good that team was to have been able to keep their heads above water with the type of goaltending they got.

    Jussi went 15-12-6 with .880 SV and 3.13GAA
    Conklin went 8-5-1 with same .880SV and 2.8GAA
    Mike Morison 10-4-2 0.884 SV 2.83 GAA

    That team was loaded with fantastic pros throughout the lineup, tough minded vetran players who were able to handle the ups and downs of sub par goaltending. Having 44 on the backline also gives a team a lot of confidence that they are going to be ok.

    This is a young team that for the most part has only seen bad things happen and you can just see when they give up goals like that 2nd one they look around with that “here we go again look”

    We have HOF writers that tweet out “So and so turned the puck over on that goal” and act like every turnover ends up in your net, they don’t, goalies are allowed to help their teamates out.
    I dont think Dubynk is a .88 goalie he is better than that but this team needs a legit option to play along with him, right now he cant be trusted and its killing this team. They deserve better.

  22. zatch says:

    I personally am really high on Freddy Andersen and was long before he made his NHL debut this year, although that might be my Dane fetish showing (Don’t even get me started on how they were unable to qualify for the Olympics) . Would love to see what he could do in Edmonton. Anaheim is just…comically loaded with goalies (Hiller, Fasth, Andersen, Gibson, Bobkov) although I can see the Ducks holding onto Andersen over Hiller.

    I don’t see Hiller as a much better option than Dubnyk, really though.

  23. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    Hypothetically, would you trade this year’s #1 pick(likely bottom 5) for Gibson from Anaheim (he’s not established but he looks like the next great goaler)?

    Would Anaheim??

    No.

    The market doesn’t bear that out. Esp. for an unestablished goalie. The market for up and comers (look at Bishop’s two deals) is considerably lower than that.

    You only trade that high a pick for Schneids, ie., probably the best Goalie in the league, at the right age and under contract. The only question there was would he re-sign and how much.

  24. Gret99zky says:

    leadfarmer:
    Fedun and Larsen have looked pretty good other than a few rookie mistakes that the rest of the team does anyway.That pretty much describes the quality of the blue that a couple rookies can come in and not look out of place.

    this.

    but hasn’t this been going on for years and years now?

    no real competition for players to be in the line-up.

    and always not enough real NHL players.

  25. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Colieo87:
    Can some on please explain to me why dilthers only signed Justin Schultz to a 2 year and not a 3 year ECL ?I’ve been a oh fan of him and Tyler Fedun.Keep playing a steady offensive D Tyler show Schultz how’s it’s done.=)I Need that opposite sex movie dates,cause it’s going to be a long winter in Oil country.

    IIRC ELCs are fixed in terms of both $$ and term based on the age of player and other factors.

    That was the longest he could be signed for.

  26. Caramel Obvious says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    Hypothetically, would you trade this year’s #1 pick(likely bottom 5) for Gibson from Anaheim (he’s not established but he looks like the next great goaler)?

    Would Anaheim??

    That’s way too high. If a top ten pick gets you a guy like Schneider then a top AHL goalie should go for much less than that, however heralded.

    Now teams are weird about trading goalies so I wouldn’t expect rationality here. Anaheim has great depth but I’d be surprised if they traded Gibson. Fasth is the guy they are going to want to trade and he isn’t doing any better than Dubnyk right now.

    There is no answer to this problem right now. So all you can do is wait.

    In every other area I think the team is so much better than they were last year. Arcobello, Fedun, Larsen, all these guys are found money. Yakupov had moments where he looked like himself for the first time last night, Omark is still too slow but plays an underappreciated quiet game in the offensive zone, very calm and makes the right play. Hemksy has been great.

    The guys I don’t like right now are Gagner and Smid and these are two guys who might have value because they are certified NHL players. If we could execute a good deal because someone overvalues them or undervalues their guy that would be great.

    I continue to think that guy is Couturier and I would trade whatever it takes, Gagner and Smid for Couturier would be great for the Oilers but it doesn’t fit under the cap for the Flyers and I doubt the Flyers make the trade without being able to improve forwards and defense at the same time. Plus there is the talk of the promise not to trade him. So maybe it is a pipe dream.

    Still, there is no single player in the NHL that I want the Oilers to acquire more than Couturier for the simple reason that there is no other player with a greater difference between his actual value and his perceived value (other than Yakupov).

    Other players that fit this criteria of trade targets: Jake Gardiner

    The opposite of this player is guys like Tyler Myers and Cody Hodgson. Avoid them like the plague.

  27. D says:

    Must disagree with you on Dubnyk, LT.

    I don’t believe all goalie save percentages are equal. Even if Dubnyk gets back to a .921 SP, it’s not the generic save percentage that really matters, it’s Dubnyk’s inability to stop that one shot when it counts. Grant Fuhr had a lovely .887 SP for his career, yet is sitting in the Hall of Fame because, as even Wayne the Great pointed out, Grant shut the door when it counted.

    I don’t think there is anyone in the Oilers organization who has confidence that Dubnyk will shut the door in that 2-1 playoff game with 5 minutes left in the third period. That’s why even if his SP is .921, it doesn’t matter.

  28. Caramel Obvious says:

    D:
    I don’t believe all goalie save percentages are equal.Even if Dubnyk gets back to a .921 SP, it’s not the generic save percentage that really matters, it’s Dubnyk’s inability to stop that one shot when it counts.Grant Fuhr had a lovely .887 SP for his career, yet is sitting in the Hall of Fame because, as even Wayne the Great pointed out, Grant shut the door when it counted.

    I don’t think there is anyone in the Oilers organization who has confidence that Dubnyk will shut the door in that 2-1 playoff game with 5 minutes left in the third period.That’s why even if his SP is .921, it doesn’t matter.

    This is completely wrong on every level of analysis.

    This also goes back to the level of discourse where the conversation has to take place. The conceptual divide goes much deeper than the simple use of numbers. Discussion on the level of numbers is irrelevant until after the important conceptual distinctions have been made.

  29. Andy P says:

    We have Perron and Joensuu returning on Saturday, right? Which gives us a full deck of options for our forwards. Smac is gone when he heals, right? and Pitlick just increases the depth at reserve. Which means that Todd Nelson may be getting some of his better players back.

    On D, we are still Jultz and Belov. Jultz is a work in progress, which means easily replaced at his current level of play, but Belov definitely strengthens the D a bit.

    My point being that for the first time this season, our forward and defensive roster is getting close to full strength for the first time this season. Now all we need is the right line combinations.

    Which leads us to G. At this point based on play BTO is a possible #1, or a strong #2, DD is a weak #2 at best and LaBarb does not belong in the NHL. So at best we will want to upgrade our #2 G position and at worst we have a strong #2 for next year in BTO.

    So our team is no longer a full strength roster when Belov returns, but rather when BTO gets back.

    Didn’t someone say we’d be firing on all cylinders, coming together as a team around the 30 game mark? Perhaps on Saturday, December 7th we will out hit, out chance, out shoot, outplay and out score our rivals from the south. Just perhaps.

  30. denny33 says:

    Nick Schultz has been our worst defender for some time…..

    Need someone to explain why Eakins lets him see ONE NANO SECOND on the PK?

  31. Bank Shot says:

    Tell me about Ekblad.

    He’s pacing the Oilers Nurse points wise with 15 points in 17 games.

    The big difference appears to be Nurse’s team is much better offensively. Ekblad is third in scoring and the top scorer has 18 points. he’s right there. Nurse is 6th and the top scorer has over 30 points.

    Ekblad is 6’4″ 217 lbs.

    Seems like he could be ready to step right into the NHL?

    Even if the Oilers move up a couple of spots in the draft should they be moving heaven and earth to get this guy?

  32. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bank Shot:
    Tell me about Ekblad.

    He’s pacing the Oilers Nurse points wise with 15 points in 17 games.

    The big difference appears to be Nurse’s team is much better offensively. Ekblad is third in scoring and the top scorer has 18 points. he’s right there. Nurse is 6th and the top scorer has over 30 points.

    Ekblad is 6’4″ 217 lbs.

    Seems like he could be ready to step right into the NHL?

    Even if the Oilers move up a couple of spots in the draft should they be moving heaven and earth to get this guy?

    You spelled Draisaitl wrong.

  33. GriffCity says:

    Yakupov is brutal. I dont think he will develop into the player we all hope he will. I think he has been the worst player on the team all season long and will have a short nhl career. Ive tried to remain optimistic but the proof is in the pudding. Even when Stamkos or Tavares struggles early on in their nhl days their struggles were nothing compared to Yak. He has directly caused a dozen goals on us this season, might as well have shot the puck in our net himself. The play almost always breaks down as soon as he touches the puck, which looks like a live grenade on the end of his stick. Im sorry but Yak is a bust…

  34. Ribs says:

    Huh. Phil Larsen. He’s a 5-6 who played a lot of minutes last night. If that trend continued we would have a story.

    He played over 23 minutes against Florida as well. The coach seems to like him. Go Phil! (still sounds strange to call a grown man “Phillip”)

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I know we did this before…

    but Tallon just held a media chat and LeBrun is saying he’s desperate for a trade:

    1 hour ago
    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Tallon, “This is just the beginning of the changes we want to make.”

    1 hour ago
    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Tallon: trying “extremely hard” to make a trade and will keep trying, hopes something will hit “in the near future”

    1 hour ago
    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Tallon on media call says the team’s best players need to play better or else he’ll get other players…

    So… here it is:

    http://www.capgeek.com/panthers/

    Who’s the “reasonable” target here…?

  36. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    GriffCity:
    Yakupov is brutal. I dont think he will develop into the player we all hope he will. I think he has been the worst player on the team all season long and will have a short nhl career. Ive tried to remain optimistic but the proof is in the pudding. Even when Stamkos or Tavares struggles early on in their nhl days their struggles were nothing compared to Yak. He has directly caused a dozen goals on us this season, might as well have shot the puck in our net himself. The play almost always breaks down as soon as he touches the puck, which looks like a live grenade on the end of his stick. Im sorry but Yak is a bust…

    Let’s save this one. Should be interesting reading for the future.

  37. Andy P says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: You spelled Draisaitl wrong.

    Do you think we need a C more than another good D, or just that you think Ekblad is a better player?

  38. G Money says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    That’s a tough one … the only ones I’d want off that roster are untouchables (Barkov, Huberdeau, Gudbrandson).

    Not sure about Kulikov. He plays too far away, never formed an opinion about him, but his name fits.

  39. gcw_rocks says:

    The Oilers are clueless at managing in a cap world. MacT doesn’t appear to get it either with his whale hunting of Clarkson.

    I looked at how Chicago, Boston, San Jose, Pittsburgh, Vancouver and Detroit invest thier cap space as they are six teams that have been considered consistent contenders over the past few years. using the average of those six teams, a target budget for spending your cap looks something like this:

    Line Percent $M
    1st 25.0% 16.0
    2nd 17.0% 10.9
    3rd 9.0% 5.8
    4th 4.0% 2.6

    1st 14.9% 9.5
    2nd 9.6% 6.1
    3rd 5.3% 3.4

    Starter 7.7% 4.9
    Back up 1.9% 1.2

    Extra forwards 2.9% 1.8 (roster players 21-23)

    Available 3.0% 1.9 (deadline deals)

    Total 100% $64.1

    Compare that to how the Oilers spend their cap space. A third line of Smyth – Gordon – Hemsky is almost double what top performers spend. The Oilers completely under-invest in their top pairing. They spend way too much on their bottom pairing. Top performers spend 40% of their cap space on defence and goaltending. The Oilers spend 33%.

    The Oilers need to spend one of Gagner, Eberle, or Yakupov on a top pairing defender. Since Gagner is in his 7th year and still hasn’t figured out the defensive responsibilities of centre, he’s the one I would trade, but if Eberle or Yakupov go you need to move him to RW.

    Hemsky won’t be able to sign a value contract low enough to keep the Oilers with a reasonable budget on the third line. Top performers are using value contracts on the third line. Hemsky needs to be traded for a value contract two way winger to complement Gordon.

    The Oilers need to dump Nick Schultz. Justin Schultz’s next contract should be a bridge contract. If a new top pairing player comes in on the left side, Smid also needs to go because you can’t afford him and Ference on the left side.

    The numbers speak for themselves, but the Oilers aren’t listening.

  40. D says:

    Caramel Obvious: This is completely wrong on every level of analysis.

    This also goes back to the level of discourse where the conversation has to take place.The conceptual divide goes much deeper than the simple use of numbers.Discussion on the level of numbers is irrelevant until after the important conceptual distinctions have been made.

    This sounds like something that NewAgeSys would post on ON.

  41. Chris says:

    To the guy

    D:
    Must disagree with you on Dubnyk, LT.

    I don’t believe all goalie save percentages are equal.Even if Dubnyk gets back to a .921 SP, it’s not the generic save percentage that really matters, it’s Dubnyk’s inability to stop that one shot when it counts.Grant Fuhr had a lovely .887 SP for his career, yet is sitting in the Hall of Fame because, as even Wayne the Great pointed out, Grant shut the door when it counted.

    I don’t think there is anyone in the Oilers organization who has confidence that Dubnyk will shut the door in that 2-1 playoff game with 5 minutes left in the third period.That’s why even if his SP is .921, it doesn’t matter.

    The game has changed since 1985. The equipement has changed, the rules have changes, the players have changed. More pertinently the average goals per game and save percentage has changed. League average goaltending is now .910 . If A goaltender isn’t in that neighbourhood he is essentially letting his team down and playing subpar.

    “Clutch saves” or “clutch goals” are a myth. Its like believing that thunder and lightning are the result of a bearded man in the sky being angry. You have good goaltenders who make alot of saves and have a high save percentage. Hence they stop the puck frequently at all times during the game. Similarly you have good goal scorers who score frequently and hence those goals come at various points in games over the course of several seasons. Scorers score frequently, good goalies save alot. “Clutch” is just a superstitutious narrative people invent.

    You might as well be sacrificing livestock to avert the curse of Tommy Salo which has been placed upon Dubnyk.

  42. gcw_rocks says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Kulikov should be top on the list. Smid for Kulikov is where I would start.

  43. D says:

    Chris:
    To the guy

    The game has changed since 1985. The equipement has changed, the rules have changes, the players have changed. More pertinently the average goals per game and save percentage has changed. League average goaltending is now .910 . If A goaltender isn’t in that neighbourhood he is essentially letting his team down and playing subpar.

    “Clutch saves” or “clutch goals” are a myth. Its like believing that thunder and lightning are the result of a bearded man in the sky being angry. You have good goaltenders who make alot of saves and have a high save percentage. Hence they stop the puck frequently at all times during the game. Similarly you have good goal scorers who score frequently and hence those goals come at various points in games over the course of several seasons. Scorers score frequently, good goalies save alot. “Clutch” is just a superstitutious narrative people invent.

    You might as well be sacrificing livestock to avert the curse of Tommy Salo which has been placed upon Dubnyk.

    I don’t disagree with much of what you say and am not suggesting that Dubnyk with a .880 SP making clutch saves is acceptable. What I am saying is that Dubnyk with a 0.920 SP not making the clutch save is the difference maker. With regards to clutch saves being a narrative that people invent, the players themselves have come out saying that those saves make a difference mentally.

  44. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Andy P: Do you think we need a C more than another good D, or just that you think Ekblad is a better player?

    I do think our depth throughout the organization at C needs a lot more work than D.

    But, more to the point… I’m against draft D that high. I was against the Nurse selection (though I love the player now that he’s in the system… I still draft the Russian in a do-over).

    And… yes… my love of Draisaitl can’t be sated. I prefer him to all else, perhaps irrationally so.

  45. justDOit says:

    Chris,

    Chris – you da man!

    I think for a side-project this weekend, I’m going to immerse myself in ayahuasca, and peer into some parallel universes, to see which goalies backstopped the 80′s Oilers to greatness. I’m thinking Pete Peters will be one of them…

  46. GriffCity says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I honestly would love to be proven wrong on this one. Sometimes though you just have a feeling in your gut that a guy can either reach that level or he cant. I do not think Yak will turn out. Hate to say it. There is no denying he has been down right terrible this season though.

  47. fifthcartel says:

    Edmonton Oilers ‏@EdmontonOilers 5m

    #Oilers assign forwards Ben Eager and Linus Omark to @OKCBarons.

    Perron and Joensuu healthy?

  48. Caramel Obvious says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I looked at this this morning. There isn’t anyone on Florida I really want. Goc is good but a pending UFA.

    Kulikov will come up. All I know about him is his possession numbers which are fine but not striking. I mean I’d take him but he isn’t likely to be cheap. If you could get him for Smid, well fine, but I don’t think you could.

    Really, there isn’t anything there of value. I don’t want Versteeg at his salary. I really like Campbell but again, the salary. I liked Bjugstad the other day but he’s not what they are talking about when they talk about making trades.

    I don’t think there is anything there.

  49. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    D: I don’t disagree with much of what you say and am not suggesting that Dubnyk with a .880 SP making clutch saves is acceptable.What I am saying is that Dubnyk with a 0.920 SP not making the clutch save is the difference maker.With regards to clutch saves being a narrative that people invent, the players themselves have come out saying that those saves make a difference mentally.

    But “clutch” save is a made up thing.

    I don’t doubt that such a thing has a psychological impact on the players (it certainly does on the fans!).

    But it is nearly meaningless from any tangible perspective.

  50. Chris says:

    D: I don’t disagree with much of what you say and am not suggesting that Dubnyk with a .880 SP making clutch saves is acceptable.What I am saying is that Dubnyk with a 0.920 SP not making the clutch save is the difference maker.With regards to clutch saves being a narrative that people invent, the players themselves have come out saying that those saves make a difference mentally.

    If Dubnyk has a .92 save percentage we would be discussing how the Oilers were better and at .500 or close to it they remained in the mix. I’m sure the narrative would be “if only they would get healthy they could put something together.” Instead we are all a collective primal scream of frustration as goaltending as taken us from mediocre results to dreadful.

  51. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Kulikov is a nice target. Matthias is something Matty has been pitching:

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/10/21/this-n-that-edmonton-oilers-would-jump-at-chance-to-acquire-shawn-matthias/

    I wonder about their random pick ups Boyes and Gilbert.

  52. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    fifthcartel:
    Edmonton Oilers ‏@EdmontonOilers 5m

    #Oilers assign forwards Ben Eager and Linus Omark to @OKCBarons.

    Perron and Joensuu healthy?

    Omark deserved a second game. Eager hasn’t helped this team in 3 years.

  53. hunter1909 says:

    Agreeing with Dallas Eakin’s assessment of last nights game.

    Last night was game 17 and they finally looked like a hockey team again. Tampa are a pretty good hockey team, btw.

    Hall was magnificent, although not many of you dolts seem to have noticed. Too busy whining about Yakupov, despite Eakin’s and presumably MacT NOT being of any mind to trade him, period.

    I gave them 20 games to get it going and so I’ll wait another 3 games before taking anything they do too seriously.

  54. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Alright already. I’m with you on Draisatl, unless Sam Reinhart becomes available.

    Draisatl, he could be another Paajarvi or perhaps a Monahan. It’ll take time to know for sure.

    One thing that is emerging from this draft class is that unless the Oilers are drafting in the top six or seven then I think we need to seriously consider what that pick would bring back in trade.

    Which brings me to another point, UFAs this year. If it meant moving up a draft round I’d like to see MacTavish delay the draft pick return on trades by a year, ie: a 2015 2nd rather than a 2014 3rd. It was a good move in the Cogliano trade and one that I’m surprised more GMs don’t pull off more often. Most GMs are notoriously short-sighted, and the one who can maximize return on delayed investments has the chance to make out like a bandit.

  55. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I know we did this before…
    but Tallon just held a media chat and LeBrun is saying he’s desperate for a trade:
    1 hour ago
    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Tallon, “This is just the beginning of the changes we want to make.”
    1 hour ago
    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Tallon: trying “extremely hard” to make a trade and will keep trying, hopes something will hit “in the near future”
    1 hour ago
    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Tallon on media call says the team’s best players need to play better or else he’ll get other players…
    So… here it is:
    http://www.capgeek.com/panthers/
    Who’s the “reasonable” target here…?

    *************************************************************

    I can see why Tallon is having a tough time…..

    There is nobody on that roster that I would want…..

    The Elite young studs are not up for sale there.

    Fleischman Kopecky, Goc……pass.

  56. G Money says:

    hunter1909,

    Agreed. Which means I must ask: who are you, and what have you done with the real Hunter?

  57. RexLibris says:

    Played around with Google’s Rorschach toy this morning. Kept seeing the Oilers logo over and over again. Does that mean I’m clinically depressed? Predilection for masochistic tendencies?

  58. fifthcartel says:

    Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN 4m

    Told today Flyers are talking with EDM about Eberle

    …. bold moves?

  59. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Did Lansky just anoint Bolland with CFP 06 status?

    Leaves media coverage is a hell of drug.

  60. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Alright already. I’m with you on Draisatl, unless Sam Reinhart becomes available.

    Draisatl, he could be another Paajarvi or perhaps a Monahan. It’ll take time to know for sure.

    One thing that is emerging from this draft class is that unless the Oilers are drafting in the top six or seven then I think we need to seriously consider what that pick would bring back in trade.

    Which brings me to another point, UFAs this year. If it meant moving up a draft round I’d like to see MacTavish delay the draft pick return on trades by a year, ie: a 2015 2nd rather than a 2014 3rd. It was a good move in the Cogliano trade and one that I’m surprised more GMs don’t pull off more often. Most GMs are notoriously short-sighted, and the one who can maximize return on delayed investments has the chance to make out like a bandit.

    The Vanek deal was interesting in that regard.

    Agreed, we should look into this… but my understanding is that 2015 is supposed to be stronger than this year (but who knows when things are so far away).

    I know this though… the first pick this year will be of most value at the draft table or near it… If they trade it, they shouldn’t until then and only for magic.

    If it is Draisaitl though… they better pull the trigger and pick the kid!
    :)

  61. denny33 says:

    RexLibris,

    One thing that is emerging from this draft class is that unless the Oilers are drafting in the top six or seven then I think we need to seriously consider what that pick would bring back in trade.

    *******************************************************************************

    Well, we are 28th now and Cali still beckons…

    No way we can trade that pick now – imo.

    Elite players are found at our potential draft position in 2014…say top 7

    We are going to look back in 5years at the pitch to trade Nurse to the Canucks for Schneider and shudder….

    We have near zero organization depth at the C position or the G position….

  62. G Money says:

    RexLibris:
    Played around with Google’s Rorschach toy this morning. Kept seeing the Oilers logo over and over again. Does that mean I’m clinically depressed? Predilection for masochistic tendencies?

    You are an Oiler fan, so: yes and yes.

  63. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    More

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/27654/dineen-firing-first-of-many-moves-in-florida

    “No point listing which Panthers are available, it will take less time to tell you that outside of Jonathan Huberdeau, Aleksander Barkov and a few other youngsters, pretty much any other player is for sale, especially veterans. “

  64. wheatnoil says:

    Ryan Whitney waived by the Panthers (tweeted by McKenzie).

    Poor guy. Such a promising career destroyed by his ankles.

  65. Caramel Obvious says:

    fifthcartel:
    Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN 4m

    Told today Flyers are talking with EDM about Eberle

    …. bold moves?

    You misheard me. I would like to trade Gagner for Couturier, not Eberle. Why can’t I get everything I want.

    Now, of course the Flyers would prefer Eberle but they can’t trade Couturier for Eberle under the cap. So the real worry is they are talking something like Eberle for Coburn which would be a big step backwards.

  66. HugThePost says:

    In the spirit of being positive on a Friday, at the least we have the great stories of Fedun and Arcobello to cheer for this season. The stuff of legend. Re: Fedun—-might we finally have a local boy who made good on the local team?

  67. CrazyCoach says:

    Lowetide: Craig Ramsay part of the bloodletting in Florida. BRILLIANT coach, hire him now!!!!

    Then who goes from behind the bench?

  68. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Caramel Obvious: You misheard me.I would like to trade Gagner for Couturier, not Eberle.Why can’t I get everything I want.

    Now, of course the Flyers would prefer Eberle but they can’t trade Couturier for Eberle under the cap.So the real worry is they are talking something like Eberle for Coburn which would be a big step backwards.

    Eberle for Coburn wouldn’t work cap wise either for the Flyers.

    http://www.capgeek.com/flyers/

    I imagine there will be a few pieces moving if Eberle goes.

    One thing is all the NTC/NMC the Flyers have.

  69. russ99 says:

    On D, when everyone is healthy, we finally have a quality puck mover for each pairing.

    In order of ceiling:

    J. Schultz
    Belov
    Larsen
    … with Marincin, Klefbom and Nurse to come.

    Its the other defenders where we are well behind the rest of the league in quality and need to make drastic improvements:

    Petry
    Smid
    Ference
    N. Schultz
    Fedun

  70. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    russ99: Its the other defenders where we are well behind the rest of the league in quality and need to make drastic improvements:
    Petry
    Smid
    Ference
    N. Schultz
    Fedun

    Petry… this is insane to place him here.

    Smid, Ference and N. Schultz are all valuable NHL d-men, who belong on a 3rd pairing and have trouble moving the puck.

    Fedun is a good call up.

  71. Clay says:

    LT: “Honestly, this club needs a steady veteran who can chime in with Petry and play the toughs, and they need it now.”

    I assume that MacT figured this is exactly what he was getting in Ference, and to be honest, I did too. Not that he’s a top pairing guy, but that he’d be that seasoned vet that could play to the left of Petry or Schultz – or whomever needed a steadying presence. I guess that I remember him too good from this CGY days.

    So, off topic a bit… I was thinking about this last night while watching Larsen and Fedun play, especially Fedun who is beyond-his-years calm in his own zone. Dude is a cucumber. I guess when you have your leg explode like a firecracker, nothing else can rattle you!

    Anyway, the RD right now are Petry, Fedun, Larsen, and LD is Smid, Ference, and Nultz (no particular order). When Belov comes back, he pushes Nultz out, and a left side of Smid-Ference-Belov is really not that bad. So IF, and it’s a big “if”, but IF Fedun is actually as sound defensively as he appears, and seeing that this season is pooched anyway, my thought is that they pull a Brent Burns on Jultz, and move him up to RW.

    Justin Schultz is a gifted offensive player, and with how often he gets caught up-ice, it’s apparent that his instincts are to score and not defend. To this point, that’s his only down arrow – he’s a defensive liability. So put him on the wing and let him go. By eye, Fedun is better defensively at this point, and Larsen is no worse (of course no way to tell due to sample size).

    Schultz could still play the point on the PP, and imagine the break-out speed of Hall and Jultz on either side of, say, RNH.

    Hey, it’s a wasted season anyway, so why not try it? Can’t hurt. Meanwhile, it allows one or both of Larsen and Fedun to stay up for an extended look, and if it works, the RW depth is Eberle, Hemsky, Yak, Jultz, Arcobello/Gagner (I’m in the Arco as 2C, Gagner as RW camp). That RW list is as offensively gifted as any in the league, young as hell, and allows for plenty of trade options to bring in the missing pieces.

    Long term – the Oilers are pretty thin for RD prospects, but MacT has the laundry list of LD prospects with which to sort that out – by trade or training.

  72. skinny65 says:

    I used to like Dreger, but he has become such a shill for the leaf’s it’s not even funny. He just said that John Michael Liles is better then 4 of the top 7 Oilers d men and he couldn’t figure out why they hadn’t traded for him yet. All he does is turn out press releases for Nonis these days.

  73. Caramel Obvious says:

    Ok, I’m home with my daughter so I have some time to make this work with the Flyers.

    My working premise is that I want Couturier and the Flyers want Eberle. How do we make that work? The difference in salaries is about $5M and the Flyers have a little over $2M in capspacee

    The Flyers need to add a contract they don’t want. Let’s say that Meszaros and his $4M. That works salary wise but then the Flyers need someone to replace his minutes and so the Oilers need to add a D that is relatively cheap. That means either Fedun or Larsen. I’m betting the Flyers want Larsen.

    So now it is Eberle and Larsen for Couturier and Meszaros. This is right at the edge of the cap and unbalanced towards the Flyers. So let’s add Smid and Coburn.

    Add it all up and it looks like this:

    Eberle, Smid, and Larsen for Couturier, Coburn, and Meszaros which is a pretty good deal for both teams I think and only adds 1.1 M in salary to the Flyers which I believe they have room for.

    What say you? I think this is the best case scenario of a deal with the Flyers

  74. Oilanderp says:

    Giroux is set to make $8.275 M next year. Lordy.

  75. Caramel Obvious says:

    skinny65:
    I used to like Dreger, but he has become such a shill for the leaf’s it’s not even funny.He just said that John Michael Liles is better then 4 of the top 7 Oilers d men and he couldn’t figure out why they hadn’t traded for him yet.All he does is turn out press releases for Nonis these days.

    Sam Gagner isn’t Carlyle’s type of player but a deal for Gagner makes all sorts of sense for the Leafs right now.

    Dreger is sort of right that Liles could play for the Oilers in the sense that he would fit in. I’m not sure he’s obviously better than anyone and he is paid more than Smid so why give up any assets for him. Evaluate the contract not the player. The player has positive value but the contract has negative value.

  76. hoser313 says:

    gcw_rocks,

    Totally agree with your cap analysis. Most of this is on Tambo/Lowe. MacT will have to fix this.

    Let the kids desperate to make the show play on the 4th line and now that the Oil have the depth, on the 3rd pairing D as well. No need for expensive vets for these positions.

    Personally though, I think you have to keep Smid and hope his puck game turns around. Who do you want out there against the Ovechkins and Getzlafs of the league? I want Smid.

    Not sure what you do with Hemsky though. It would (will?) be a crying shame to lose him at the deadline for only a 2nd round pick.

  77. Caramel Obvious says:

    Oilanderp:
    Giroux is set to make $8.275 M next year.Lordy.

    And that isn’t even the worst contract on the team. I thought acquiring Couturier, Schenn, Voracek and Simmonds was pretty slick but the moves around this have been so bad that the Flyers are pretty screwed.

    The list of terrible moves is impressive:

    Bryzgalov contract: obviously bad at the time
    Streit contract: obviously bad at the time
    L Schenn trade: obviously bad at the time
    Lecavalier contract: obviously bad at the time

    Those are franchises destroying moves.

  78. B.C.B says:

    CrazyCoach,

    My guess would be that no one leaves from behind the bench. That Smith and Bucky might be put out to pasture in the off season: I can only hope! That Eakins would set up Keith Acton still as associate coach and Craig Ramsay & an inexperienced hot shots as assistant coaches right after the CHL playoffs end in the spring of 2014.

    Craig Ramsay wound be a good addition to the coaching staff right now, but likely if the Oilers hire him it will be in a strange titleless job for now. Likely Mess’ assistant or in pro scouting . . . good god could the Oil use Ramsay to shake up the pro scouting dep’t.

  79. Truth says:

    You don’t give up Eberle unless you get a better player. Who is a better player than Eberle on the Flyers? Giroux looked like he was better in the previous 2 years. Doesn’t look so good now. Who else is there? Couturier is a downgrade on talent I don’t care what anyone says. If I’m looking to get Couturier I am offering Gagner +, max.

    Could the Flyers sell their fanbase on Eberle and a 2nd round pick for Giroux? At this point in time I think so

  80. leadfarmer says:

    I don’t really care much for O’mark, but I wish this team gave him a 3-5 game call up, as a gesture for his hard work in the AHL and dump those 4th line scrubs they are currently employing.

  81. Andy P says:

    Trying to persuade this blog that we should go with what we have and not trade our young is akin to f@rting against thunder ;)

    Most teams struggle with an underperforming goalie, or with key players injured, or with a heavy roster turnover or with a new coach, at least at first. throw in all of the above and the answer is to trade our young?

    They may have lost last night but at least they bought their spheroids to the game. Given the return of Perron, Joensuu and BTO this team will be fun to watch.

  82. rickithebear says:

    Caramel Obvious: Eberle, Smid, and Larsen for Couturier, Coburn, and Meszaros which is a pretty good deal for both teams I think and only adds 1.1 M in salary to the Flyers which I believe they have room for.

    Smid was one of two Dmen top 40 in: Tough comp Ga; PKGA; Block: Hits.

    Leading goal scorers last two seasons:
    #7 Gaborik 53G
    #8-10 Couture, Perry, toews 52G
    #11-13 Moulson, Nash, Ryder 51G
    #14 Eberle 50G
    #15 Parise 49G
    #16-18 Kovalchuk, Kunitz, Pacoiretty 48G
    #19-23 Carter, E. Kane, pavelski, Marleau, Vrbatta 47G

    Larsen looks like a viable asset that will establish tradable merit on his own.

    For Couturier, who i like best in RNH draft
    Coburn 9th worst EVGA dman last year. Whitney bad the year before (bottom 60)
    mezaros 22nd worst EVGA last year, bottom 30m the year before.

    Boychuk, Couture, Larsen for Schiefle, John-Michael liles, P. Harrold.

    Is an equivelent trade based on last two years of performance.
    How awful is that!

  83. denny33 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Ok, I’m home with my daughter so I have some time to make this work with the Flyers.
    My working premise is that I want Couturier and the Flyers want Eberle. How do we make that work? The difference in salaries is about $5M and the Flyers have a little over $2M in capspacee
    The Flyers need to add a contract they don’t want. Let’s say that Meszaros and his $4M. That works salary wise but then the Flyers need someone to replace his minutes and so the Oilers need to add a D that is relatively cheap. That means either Fedun or Larsen. I’m betting the Flyers want Larsen.
    So now it is Eberle and Larsen for Couturier and Meszaros. This is right at the edge of the cap and unbalanced towards the Flyers. So let’s add Smid and Coburn.
    Add it all up and it looks like this:
    Eberle, Smid, and Larsen for Couturier, Coburn, and Meszaros which is a pretty good deal for both teams I think and only adds 1.1 M in salary to the Flyers which I believe they have room for.
    What say you? I think this is the best case scenario of a deal with the Flyers

    ************************************************************************************

    I like where you are going with Couturier but I don’t think the flyers are shopping him….

    Coburn turns 29 this year and Mezaros is 28…..so I don’t like the return for the OIlers.

    Philly is struggling becuse of their D – not sure I want what they are offering.

    For me, if Eberle is dealt – at 23 – the return had better be LARGE. and overwhelming. Coutruier could be part of that package….but would need more.

    Philly – from what I hear – is struggling because they don’t have good skating puck moving -D-men. I am not sure Smid is what they are looking for…

    Pretty realistic though….nice you didn’t offer up N. Schultz ( this years Ryan Whitney )..

  84. denny33 says:

    leadfarmer,

    I don’t really care much for O’mark, but I wish this team gave him a 3-5 game call up, as a gesture for his hard work in the AHL and dump those 4th line scrubs they are currently employing.

    **************************************************************************************

    I like Omark and I thought he had a decent game with a beauty set up in the 2nd period….

    He needs way more than just 1 game….thought he backchecked very well…

    Ryan Jones ( he has nothing on Mike Brown ) vs Linus Omark……

  85. stevezie says:

    It’s true there is no “clutch”, but I do believe in “anti-clutch”.

    I have no data to back this up, but it just makes sense to me that some guys would fall apart under pressure. I’ve seen it happen around my workplace, and so have most of you.

    So while Eberle isn’t actually “clutch”, it is encouraging that he isn’t anti-clutch. The problem with Dubby isn’t that he isn’t clutch, but that he might even be anti-clutch. Guilty until proven innocent.

  86. pboy says:

    Dennis King was fantastic on LT’s show today. I have no idea what he does for a living and whether or not he has the time but it would be really great to hear him on the show more consistently.

    Really good show today.

  87. goldenchild says:

    pboy: Dennis King was fantastic on LT’s show today. I have no idea what he does for a living and whether or not he has the time but it would be really great to hear him on the show more consistently. Really good show today.

    Agreed, I was ribbing him on twitter about his accent after last weeks show but the guy is hillarious and has very smart takes on the Oilers. He’s a terrific guest on the show, more Dennis LT, More Dennis

  88. The Prince says:

    Truth,

    Have to agree. At this stage in the Oilers’ development, it only makes sense to trade Eberle if you are acquiring a Giroux-type talent. We can’t take our (arguably) most mature young talent and deal him for more young talent that will require more time and pains to develop. We need to upgrade on an Eberle – if not, you merely prolong the rebuild and give it a slightly different face.

    Sure an Eberle package might get you Wayne Simmonds and Sean Couturier (maybe), but at this point can we say with any certainty that they would really help us win more than Eberle does?

  89. The Prince says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Does ‘armed prophet’ mean anything to you? How about “It is better to be impetuous than cautious, for Fortune is a woman?”

  90. rickithebear says:

    Denny/
    Realistic?

    Eberle 50G 113P 126Gm
    Perry 52G 96P 124GM

    Nuf said!

  91. Caramel Obvious says:

    It’s interesting that all of the reaction to my proposed trade thinks its bad for the Oilers.

    You guys are completely wrong about that. It’s an unbelievable trade for the Oilers. My worry was that it would be too lopsided for the Oilers. What I tried to do was come up for a trade that was a no-brainer great trade for the Oilers that might be disguised as a good trade for the Flyers. It looks like I succeeded.

    In any case here are some facts:

    Couturier’s contract is better than Eberle’s contract. You get Couturier + whatever you get with the difference in salaries. This is a big win.

    Coburn’s contract is better than Smid’s contract. I think Coburn is the better player and worth the difference in money. You are free to disagree.

    Larsen’s contract is much better than Meszaros.

    So the price of the upgrade from Eberle and Smid to Couturier and Coburn and free agent signing to come is Larsen. That’s a great deal.

  92. Andy P says:

    Is the question who can help us win, or is it who on the team right now is making us lose?

  93. Bag of Pucks says:

    If Dale Tallon’s truly in ‘job saving’ mode and all indications seem to be that he is, I’m not sure that Barkov would be untouchable as the rook is not doing a lot to help the Cats win now.

    How about this deal?
    Eberle (much hyped sniper has name brand awareness out East)
    Arco (Tallon would need a scoring C in return and he just saw Arco good)
    Dubynk

    Barkov (skilled C with size!)
    Robak (Cats best D prospect?)
    Markstrom (change of scenery deal for tenders)

    Deal’s clearly contingent on Tallon being willing to part with future to save his job and sell tix now. Eberle could have the cache necessary and Oil have the RW to replace Ebs. Hate parting with Arco over Gags, but MacT handcuffed the team with the NMC.

  94. rickithebear says:

    Prince!
    goals last two seasons
    Eberle #15 50G
    #37-39 43G Hall, Simmonds, Franzen
    #40-43 42G Ryan, D. sedin, St. louis, E. Staal
    #44-46 41G burrows, giroux, Glencross.

    Simmnds was tied with hall.

  95. Hammers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Omark deserved a second game. Eager hasn’t helped this team in 3 years.

    Totally agree . Omark worked hard and dug the puck out . Why him & not Acton or Jones .We could have a decent 3rd & 4th line if Eakins looked closer at what he has .

  96. Nostradumbass says:

    Trading Eberle is a terribly inefficient way to improve a hockey club

    What possible player, bringing what type of production level could justify it? I can’t see a scenario where the Flyers trade Coutourier, they have cap issues next year and trading a productive young C with a low price point for next year seems like a loser move. Moving Giroux actually might be on the table for them but again you’d be adding cap hit with Giroux and the Flyers might want added assets to lift him. How sure can we be that his production returns that it justifies this type of dice roll?

    Trades, while sexy, offer all kinds of variable that can’t be determined which in turn offer all sorts of risk to making these types of transactions

    We have very inefficient contract when you look at cost/production at RW in Hemsky. If you are truly looking at upgrading for next year, the play here is to off load Ales for whatever the market gives up and attempt to sign a player next year that will equal Hemsky’s production but at a much lower cost (I’m sorry but I just don’t think it will be that difficult to find a 0.5 per60 player). Ideally adding a player that brings a different skill set than the Ales/Jordan/Yak trio.

    You then allocate the savings to upgrading elsewhere

    Way, way less uncertainties..better chance for success

  97. dawgtoy says:

    Always love the trades where the players just walk to the other dressing room.

  98. Ribs says:

    We’re not far from the ten year anniversary of the 2006 run and the playoffs remain a distant bell.

    That sinks in deep.

  99. Rebilled says:

    Ryan Whitney on waivers.

    Pull the trigger KLowe…

  100. Hammers says:

    I don’t expect any trades , having said that it will happen . Trouble with trades is that most shuffle similar type players or contracts and minor moves don’t help many teams in the bottom half in wins/points . McT I think needs to tell Eakins players he wants to see on the ice then you find out what you have , both player wise and trade wise . Example right know is both Fedun & Larsen and they may take a roster spot , prove there real worth in a trade or say AHL player period .Arco & Pitlick are similar types . Right now they have a slim chance or no chance at playoffs .My point is find out starting now .

  101. FastOil says:

    The Prince,

    “Sure an Eberle package might get you Wayne Simmonds and Sean Couturier (maybe), but at this point can we say with any certainty that they would really help us win more than Eberle does?”

    Yes. Any addition of a good centre will make the Oilers win more. RNH should be sheltered still. Let the lad have some fun.

  102. Logan91 says:

    A couple of things after last nights game:

    1. The team plays better with Justin Schultz OUT of the line up.

    2. IMO Bachman is the better choice for goal. He sees the puck so well and that is something Dubnky struggles with so much.

    Also, I cant believe anyone here is even talking about trading Eberle. What a dumb decision that would be.

  103. oilersfan says:

    I would trade eberle, Larsen and smid for simmons, couturier and Coburn.

    dollars even out and gives the oilers four good lines

  104. hunter1909 says:

    stevezie: It’s true there is no “clutch”

    Glenn Anderson/Mark Messier says hi.

    Shawn Horcoff/Ales Hemsky says hi from the other side of the argument.

  105. Lucinius says:

    I remain glad that most of you are not the GM of the Edmonton Oilers.

    Also, I veto any trade that sends one of the following to a place like Florida (shitty team with slim playoff chances); Hemsky, Smid, Yakupov, Petry.

    The above deserve to go someplace that can make the playoffs — the first two especially.

    That said, I’d rather not see them traded. Except maybe Hemsky. Letting the guy play somewhere that isn’t a quagmire of immense ineptitude has some appeal.

  106. Caramel Obvious says:

    oilersfan:
    I would trade eberle, Larsen and smid for simmons, couturier and Coburn.

    dollars even out and gives the oilers four good lines

    Why would the Flyers make such a terrible trade for them? You have to start from the perspective of the other side and come up something that works for both teams.

    Remember that Bobby Ryan was traded for Silfverberg, Noesen and a first round pick.

    Eberle isn’t better than Bobby Ryan. So if you think that my proposal is unfair for the Oilers you either don’t understand the kind of player Eberle is or you don’t understand how good Couturier is.

  107. The Prince says:

    FastOil,

    How much has Couturier contributed to wins in PHI?

    All that I’m saying is that he’s an unknown commodity, more ‘enigmatic’ than surefire ‘good’ at this point. What if he turns out to be Paul Gaustad v2.0, instead of ’09 Jordan Staal? If you’re MacT, are you okay with dealing Eberle away, and taking on that much risk?

    If the Oilers are going to take the next step by dealing a young star, it has to be for an established player (a Giroux-type) and not for another young, not-yet-in-his-prime player. Personally, I think the Oilers best option long-term (RE: fab five – Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov, J. Schultz) is to stand pat and stay patient.

  108. G Money says:

    Andy P: Trying to persuade this blog that we should go with what we have and not trade our young is akin to f@rting against thunder

    Logan91: Also, I cant believe anyone here is even talking about trading Eberle. What a dumb decision that would be.

    That’s an interesting statement to make.

    Isn’t the value of trade ultimately in what you get for what you give?

    The absolute value of a player in a trade might be measured by things like skill level, position (C typically worth more than W), role (power forward vs playmaker, sniper vs passer, puck mover vs stay-at-home), age, and contract.

    Of those things, only skill level is an absolute value, the others are dependent on the context of a team’s situation: positional needs, balance of roster, need for more youth or more experience, and cap room.

    We can talk all we want about how good Yak is going to be, but if Tampa offered Stamkos straight up – I’d do that trade in a heartbeat.

    So the question is – if we trade Eberle, what would the return have to be in order to make that worthwhile?

    I will agree with you on this – most (not all) of the suggestions made so far would leave the team worse off over the long run.

    P.S. I tried farting during thunder once, it was fun!

  109. oilersfan says:

    caramel obvious

    Couturier has almost no offence. Philly can’t score.

    Eberle has lots of offence. that’s why philly makes the trade.

    I don’t think Couturier is as good as you think. He is not an elite finisher like Eberle is and never will be. He is an elite third line center. Good teams have those, the Oilers need it. Eber;e is a very good first line winger. Basically the Oilers are trading a first line winger for a second line winger and a third line center.

    No way the oilers would trade Couturier straight up for Eberle. Flyers have to add Simmons.

    Stauffer said today the Oilers have no interest in trading Eberle unless there is a huge overpay from the other side.

    If they won’t do it, fine. Best player in the deal, by far, is Eberle.

    So why again wouldn’t a team who can’t score and not get the puck out of their zone, not trade for a goal scorer and a puck moving dman?

  110. Jon K says:

    Watching Bishop last night reminded me of the Oilers’ offered package of Ryan Jones and a pick. That led me to think about what might have been if Tambellini offered MPS and a pick instead. I can’t help but think that Ottawa would have preferred MPS to Conacher.

    That thought was depressing enough. But then, I thought about all the other missed opportunities that Tambellini may have missed out on that we don’t even know about. It’s enough to drive you to drink.

    A tandem of Dubnyk and Bishop would look mighty fine right now…

  111. Nostradumbass says:

    Lucinius,

    As does getting rid of a player who has contributed to that “quagmire of ineptitude”

  112. FastOil says:

    The Prince:
    FastOil,

    How much has Couturier contributed to wins in PHI?

    All that I’m saying is that he’s an unknown commodity, more ‘enigmatic’ than surefire ‘good’ at this point. What if he turns out to be Paul Gaustad v2.0, instead of ’09 Jordan Staal? If you’re MacT, are you okay with dealing Eberle away, and taking on that much risk?

    If the Oilers are going to take the next step by dealing a young star, it has to be for an established player (a Giroux-type) and not for another young, not-yet-in-his-prime player. Personally, I think the Oilers best option long-term (RE: fab five – Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov, J. Schultz) is to stand pat and stay patient.

    I agree you don’t trade offense lightly. I had Hemksy in the deal when I pitched it because it doesn’t seem he’s a part of the plan and will just walk if not traded. That would be a waste of assets.

  113. Nostradumbass says:

    Wasn’t the missed opportunity on Bishop really when St.Louis traded him for a 2nd

    I seem to remember several on here advocating for Bishop back then even

  114. Henry says:

    Philly most likely wants a young puck moving defenseman that helps mitigate their mistake with Streit. I could see Larsen as a target for them. Can’t see who the Oilers would want that doesn’t have an NTC. A second round pick would be nice for the Oilers since theirs is now in St. Louis.

    Simmonds and Coburn have NTCs with mods. I tried to see the conditions a bit without luck, but bet that the Oilers wouldn’t be their first choice in these conditions.

    They can’t have Eberle for less than Giroux and Giroux’s hit next year breaks the Oilers salary structure. Somehow they have to pay Jultz, Petry, Yak and a #1 goalie. Bad deal all around. And Jordan Eberle is a good fucking hockey player. Chemistry with everyone he plays with, except Yak, yet.

  115. kooler says:

    leadfarmer,

    Funny enough i brought up the shadowing of Stamkos before the game….gone are the days of Esa Tikkanen.

  116. Caramel Obvious says:

    oilersfan,

    Couturier scored .9 pts/game in the AHL during the lockout during his 19/20 year old season. That’s exactly the scoring you’d expect of a front line player.

    So while it is true that his finishing skills are likely not as good as Eberle’s and he likely won’t score as much it is not true that he won’t score in the NHL.

    But if you add to that he is an excellent defensive centre right now and their value is pretty close. Perhaps Eberle is the slightly better player. He isn’t the best player by far unless you think 2011-12 was Eberle’s established level of performance and that he is going to be a pt/game player from here on out. Unfortunately that is a very unreasonable expectation.

    But even then that’s not the right question because you aren’t trading players you are trading contracts. The Oilers gets Couturier + 4.25 M to spend elsewhere, and that doesn’t include the upgrade from Smid to Coburn.

    The Oilers are never going to get a better offer than the one I made up for Eberle. If you don’t like that deal there is no deal you will ever like.

  117. Caramel Obvious says:

    Henry:
    Philly most likely wants a young puck moving defenseman that helps mitigate their mistake with Streit.I could see Larsen as a target for them.Can’t see who the Oilers would want that doesn’t have an NTC.A second round pick would be nice for the Oilers since theirs is now in St. Louis.

    Simmonds and Coburn have NTCs with mods.I tried to see the conditions a bit without luck, but bet that the Oilers wouldn’t be their first choice in these conditions.

    They can’t have Eberle for less than Giroux and Giroux’s hit next year breaks the Oilers salary structure.Somehow they have to pay Jultz, Petry, Yak and a #1 goalie.Bad deal all around.And Jordan Eberle is a good fucking hockey player.Chemistry with everyone he plays with, except Yak, yet.

    Trading Eberle for Giroux is crazy talk. Now that’s a bad deal for the Oilers.

    I just looked up Coburn’s numbers this year and it looks like he is really struggling. Maybe I don’t want him after all. I still want Couturier though.

  118. Henry says:

    Jon K:
    Watching Bishop last night reminded me of the Oilers’ offered package of Ryan Jones and a pick. That led me to think about what might have been if Tambellini offered MPS and a pick instead. I can’t help but think that Ottawa would have preferred MPS to Conacher.

    That thought was depressing enough. But then, I thought about all the other missed opportunities that Tambellini may have missed out on that we don’t even know about. It’s enough to drive you to drink.

    A tandem of Dubnyk and Bishop would look mighty fine right now…

    DD and Bishop would be nice twin towers for the nets. Tambi’s tentative action helped MacT use MPS to get Perron. I liked MPS a lot, but I like that trade more. Kind of doubt that Jones and a pick would have netted Perron.

    We get to see soon what a fairly complete OIler lineup may look like. Who knows, they may be quite good.

  119. kooler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Maybe getting thin in OKC, might not be enough time on ice for Omark with the big team?

  120. oilersfan says:

    caramel

    you may be the only oiler fan in the world who thinks Eberle for Couturier is equal.

    It is a terrible one sided win for Philly

    you don’t trade a first line winger for a third line center in any universe. not sure which one you are in.

    Couturier has been criticized since his draft year for not being good enough offensively to be an elite player. that is why he fell from top 3 to 8.

    Eberle is an inch away from being elite, and is likely to be a 30 goal scorer for most of his career. you don’t trade that for a 15 goal scorer no matter how good he is defensively.

    No way no how the Oilers make that trade and you are likely the only Oilers fan who would want to.

    I am not even sure Gagner for Couturier is a good trade. It is closer to what would be fair, though.

    look at Couturier’s nhl offence, it is not close to Eberle’s at comparable ages. eberle is only a year and ahalf older than SC. how do you know SC’s upside isn’t Paul Gaustad ? He hasn’t shown high end offence in the AHL either, no more than Paajarvi, who he is comparable to.

  121. Henry says:

    Caramel Obvious: Trading Eberle for Giroux is crazy talk.Now that’s a bad deal for the Oilers.

    I just looked up Coburn’s numbers this year and it looks like he is really struggling.Maybe I don’t want him after all.I still want Couturier though.

    I guess my point is there is no fit with the Flyers without Giroux coming back. We can argue about who the better player is, they are both damn good though. Giroux costs too much to make it a good deal for the OIlers. My point, if I have one is that the Flyers asking about Eberle should be met with “what are you going to offer me that you can actually offer.”

    Couturier straight up isn’t enough. It puts the Flyers 5million over the cap and isn’t enough for the Oilers unless Philly adds their first next year. Even then I don’t like it.

    I’d love to have Couturier on the Oilers, hard to see how though.

  122. kooler says:

    Clay,

    Should try that Brandon Davidson in OKC….he has some wheels. Especially with the backup of D.

  123. oilersfan says:

    sorry, I see eberle is 2.5 years older than Couturier…although that means the year eberle scored 36 he was the same age SC is now…and SC is on pace to score 0 goals…

  124. Bag of Pucks says:

    I think the biggest issue that MacT has is the big pieces he’s most willing to part with (Hemsky and possibly Eberle) are not sufficient ammunition IMO to bring back the 2C w/size or 1D that along with starting goaltending constitute the gaping holes in this roster.

    He’s fortunate though that Hemsky is playing like an impending UFA right now (backchecking, blocking shots, etc) because if Ales keeps it up, this club might finally be able to part with some of its RW depth at the trade deadline to address the roster imbalances.

    I don’t think this team can trade for or sign a 1D as a FA, as the cost will simply be too high in terms of assets going back and/or cap space given up. It’s robbing Peter to pay Paul. Klefbom and Nurse have to be viewed as the solution there. Given that D develop by sundial, it’s unfortunate that our Fs were drafted and are maturing before the core D, but it is what it is.

    With this in mind, I think MacTs primary objective should be to deal Hemmer at the deadline as a rental to a contender in return for a backup G they’d be willing to part with for the sake of making a run at the Cup. This leaves the team to pursue a 2C w/size in the draft (ala Monahan) which they should be able to do given the finish they’re currently projecting towards.

    This takes MacT into FA season with his primary roster needs addressed and he can then shop to fill out the Bottom 6 Fs with some size and two way acumen,

    So yeah, tank it for one for more year – but then the rebuild is well and truly complete.

  125. Marc says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    So trading Eberle for a guy who’s been one of the 5 best centres in hockey for the past 3 seasons is a bad idea and trading Eberle for a guy who has 42 points total in his first two seasons (Eberle had 43 in his first season) and has shown no sign of being more than a 30-40 pt a season forward at best is a good idea?

    Riiiight.

  126. Caramel Obvious says:

    oilersfan,

    First, if you are going to compare Couturier to Paajarvi and Gaustad I’m not sure there is anywhere to go with this. Your evaluation of how good Couturier is completely off.

    Second, you are completely ignoring their contracts.

    Third, I wasn’t trading them straight up and hence I granted that Eberle is the better player. The mistake, if I made one, is overvaluing Coburn.

    Fourth, you are completely ignoring their contracts. Sooner or later the Oilers are going to have to trade a high priced guy in the same way the Ducks had to trade Ryan. Couturier is a much better player than Silferberg, Eberle is not an obviously better player than Ryan.

    Fifth, of course I’d prefer to trade Gagner for Couturier and I would start there. However, trade conversations should live within the realm of the reasonable. That would be such an outlandish steal for the Oilers there are no words to describe it.

  127. Caramel Obvious says:

    Marc:
    Caramel Obvious,

    So trading Eberle for a guy who’s been one of the 5 best centres in hockey for the past 3 seasons is a bad idea and trading Eberle for a guy who has 42 points total in his first two seasons (Eberle had 43 in his first season) and has shown no sign of being more than a 30-40 pt a season forward at best is a good idea?

    Riiiight.

    Either you accept that contracts matter or you don’t.

  128. denny33 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Couturier scored .9 pts/game in the AHL during the lockout during his 19/20 year old season. That’s exactly the scoring you’d expect of a front line player.
    So while it is true that his finishing skills are likely not as good as Eberle’s and he likely won’t score as much it is not true that he won’t score in the NHL.
    But if you add to that he is an excellent defensive centre right now and their value is pretty close. Perhaps Eberle is the slightly better player. He isn’t the best player by far unless you think 2011-12 was Eberle’s established level of performance and that he is going to be a pt/game player from here on out. Unfortunately that is a very unreasonable expectation.
    But even then that’s not the right question because you aren’t trading players you are trading contracts. The Oilers gets Couturier + 4.25 M to spend elsewhere, and that doesn’t include the upgrade from Smid to Coburn.
    The Oilers are never going to get a better offer than the one I made up for Eberle. If you don’t like that deal there is no deal you will ever like.

    ******************************************************\

    You keep saying that …..but contracts don’t score goals.

    I like Couturier as much as the next guy – but guys like Eberle are valued at a HUGE premium because the ability to score and create scoring is a rare skill.

    Eberle to me is growing as a player and the fact is Arco should have at least 10 goals from Ebby’s set ups to yawning cages. More so at the beginning of the year obviously…

  129. gcw_rocks says:

    hoser313,

    Thanks.

    The only way you can keep Smid financially is to get rid of Ference. But some genius gave him a NMC, so you can’t get rid of him. If you play Ference on the right side opposite Smid on the second pairing the money works, but since neither are good puck movers, they don’t fit as a pair skills wise. Its a mess. The only way you can keep them both is if you have 2 super cheap puck movers playing next to them on the 2nd and 3rd pairing. Good luck finding that.

  130. Numenius says:

    Funny that Datsyuk’s deke yesterday that people are talking about was primarily on Shawn Horcoff.

  131. Bag of Pucks says:

    Further to my last post, here’s the kind of players I think MacT should be targeting at the trade deadline dangling Hemsky as a Top 6 rental in return,

    John Gibson (Anaheim)
    Jake Allen (St Louis Blues)
    Martin Jones (LA Kings)
    Andrey Vasilevskiy (Tampa)
    Malcolm Subban (Boston)
    Zach Fucale (Montreal)

    If Hemmer can fetch the Oil their goalie of the future on his way out the door, I think we could all agree that would be a nice parting gift from the Pardubice Prince and would help to cushion the blow of his loss.

    If Hemsky as a rental isn’t enough to fetch a bluechip G prospect, would Gagner get it done?

  132. thepeetso says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Can gags even be traded? Doesn’t he have some sort of no movement clause?

  133. spoiler says:

    zatch: I personally am really high on Freddy Andersen and was long before he made his NHL debut this year, although that might be my Dane fetish showing (Don’t even get me started on how they were unable to qualify for the Olympics) . Would love to see what he could do in Edmonton. Anaheim is just…comically loaded with goalies (Hiller, Fasth, Andersen, Gibson, Bobkov) although I can see the Ducks holding onto Andersen over Hiller. I don’t see Hiller as a much better option than Dubnyk, really though.

    Despite their veritable cornucopia of goaltending, I don’t see a deal with Anaheim being available. They blame us for losing Justin Schultz. No way they help out a divisional opponent further by dealing them starting netminding.

  134. Bag of Pucks says:

    thepeetso:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Can gags even be traded? Doesn’t he have some sort of no movement clause?

    I believe it’s a ‘verbal’ deal only in Year 1. If we can swap him for a starting tender at the deadline, I say pay him some ‘hush money’ for breaking the verbal agreement and make it so ; )

  135. FastOil says:

    oilersfan:
    caramel

    you may be the only oiler fan in the world who thinks Eberle for Couturier is equal.

    It is a terrible one sided win for Philly

    you don’t trade a first line winger for a third line center in any universe. not sure which one you are in.

    Couturier has been criticized since his draft year for not being good enough offensively to be an elite player. that is why he fell from top 3 to 8.

    Eberle is an inch away from being elite, and is likely to be a 30 goal scorer for most of his career. you don’t trade that for a 15 goal scorer no matter how good he is defensively.

    No way no how the Oilers make that trade and you are likely the only Oilers fan who would want to.

    I am not even sure Gagner for Couturier is a good trade. It is closer to what would be fair, though.

    look at Couturier’s nhl offence, it is not close to Eberle’s at comparable ages. eberle is only a year and ahalf older than SC. how do you know SC’s upside isn’t Paul Gaustad ? He hasn’t shown high end offence in the AHL either, no more than Paajarvi, who he is comparable to.

    The thing to look at is usage and linemates. If you play Couturier with Hall and say Perron he’ll score.

    Couturier is playing tough minutes and zone starts and driving the puck to the offensive zone and not with the best available linemates. Is he Tavares – no. Do teams need solid two way centres that aren’t stone hands (which he’s not) to contend – yes.

    The Oilers have one who is on the verge of age decline and one in training. They need another centre because Gagner says he doesn’t want the job.

    I don’t advocate Eberle for SC straight up – it’s a serious overpay. But SC is an intriguing player. I don’t think Eberle is better, but he has more offense with a less rounded game.

    Gagner straight up is also an overpay because offense (particularly if it comes with mean) are what cost.

  136. commonfan14 says:

    spoiler: They blame us for losing Justin Schultz.

    If they blamed us, they’d have called for a tampering investigation.

    I’m guessing they blame Justin Schultz.

  137. FastOil says:

    gcw_rocks:
    hoser313,

    Thanks.

    The only way you can keep Smid financially is to get rid of Ference.But some genius gave him a NMC, so you can’t get rid of him.If you play Ference on the right side opposite Smid on the second pairing the money works, but since neither are good puck movers, they don’t fit as a pair skills wise.Its a mess.The only way you can keep them both is if you have 2 super cheap puck movers playing next to them on the 2nd and 3rd pairing.Good luck finding that.

    I wonder how surprised MacT is that Ference isn’t his Chara.

    Smid was gone the second MacT said Darnell Nurse. Especially with him and Klef knocking on the door.

  138. spoiler says:

    The focus of MacT right now, beyond all other considerations, surely must be goaltending. Sure, there’s a good goalie FA market next summer, but I don’t see how he can wait that long. The pressure is on now and a good portion of that pressure will be coming from the team itself.

    Philly’s inquiry to the Oilers is irrelevant, and likely will go mostly unanswered (“Is Giroux coming back this way? No? Good-bye, Homer.”), unless MacT has a serious love for Emery. And that won’t mean Eberle going the other way.

  139. spoiler says:

    commonfan14: If they blamed us, they’d have called for a tampering investigation.I’m guessing they blame Justin Schultz.

    They did make accusations of tampering.

    Edit: They fell short of filing charges likely because the League advised that the process Schultz’s agent created for his signing (open to the market) would make tampering difficult to prove.

  140. GordM says:

    Dreger said he’s about to discuss Oiler’s interest in Bryz right now on Sports Centre.

    Fun!

  141. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    Why would we target Coutourier over Brayden Schenn from Philly (if we were to play slap and tickle with them in any case)? Seems to me if we are in the realm of Eberle, we should be looking for Schenn and something else nice and shiny. Isn’t Coutourier a 3C? I could be wrong here?…

    As to whether we need to get active on real hockey trades – including our most valued assets – we most certainly do. We can’t keep face skidding along the bottom. It’s certainly our right and privilege to make all the rationalizations we want, be we are in the bottom half of the bottom quartile of performance amongst our competition. Its not disappointing, its genuinely ugly.

  142. commonfan14 says:

    spoiler,

    Link?

  143. Bag of Pucks says:

    Well Oiled and Enthusiastic:
    Why would we target Coutourier over Brayden Schenn from Philly (if we were to play slap and tickle with them in any case)?

    I’ve wondered the same thing.

    Thus far, Coutourier’s O hasn’t followed him to the bigs but people seem comfortable projecting him as the next Michael Peca. Conversely, Schenn’s written off as modest O and no D (i.e. Matt Stajan)?

    Given they’re both still developing, wouldn’t you trade for the player who projects to have the greatest offensive upside for 2C? Based on numbers in the bigs thus far, that has to be Schenn?

  144. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Not that I have spent much time watching Schenn’s development, but he seems to have a similar professional development arc as Turris (maybe a bit more accelerated). Where I did watch him extensively was the world juniors and he was simply dominant. Appreciate juniors is juniors and the NHL is a different situation all together, but nothing in his development numbers seems out of whack? Seems to be tracking as a .5 – .75 pt/game 2C with decent size and the right age bracket. Seems to fit our needs pretty well?

  145. dangilitis says:

    “Honestly, this club needs a steady veteran who can chime in with Petry and play the toughs, and they need it now.”

    Respectfully disagree, LT.

    Oilers could be vastly improved if they had another legitimate top 2 option to push everyone else down the depth chart. But the Oilers NEED a goalie that consistently saves at least 91-92 shots per 100 (and that’s being conservative, I would be much happier with 92-93).

    Dubnyk could be that guy as the season continues, but his struggles early have crippled this team and even if he recovers, the damage has been done and then some. That’s how bad he’s been. Every goalie goes through slumps, but when the slump is absolutely horrendous and lasts into the 1/4 mark of the season, that’s unacceptable. This is coming from someone who had absolute faith in Dubie in the off-season. At this point, he would easily clear waivers (especially with his current price tag). People talking about sending Yak down to the AHL? Might as well send down Dubie too, as far as I am concerned.

    Last night, they needed timely saves, not highlight reel saves, but saves that would not deflate the team’s confidence after outplaying a team by a great margin. It is a shame that Bishop played so good last night because it masked the problem. Oilers didn’t lose because BIshop was phenomenal, they lost because Bishop was phenomenal and Dubnyk was putting up another sub 0.900 SPG effort.

    7 of the 13 losses have been by 1 goal (or 1 goal + EN)

    Of the more lopsided losses, Dubie was in net for 4 of them, and the Oilers’ goalie group in general was particularly atrocious, especially relative to opponents (look at how their numbers stack up against the opposing goalie).
    .839 vs .913 (6-2 VCR)
    .885 vs .964 (4-1 MTL)
    .846 vs .968 (4-1 WSH)
    .800 vs .933 (4-2 WSH) (Labarbera)
    .846 vs. 1.000 (4-0 TOR)

    Detroit game was a stand alone.

    But the point here is that in 7 of these “winnable games,” the Oilers goaltender could have made 1 more save (that an average NHL starter would be capable of doing in the majority of them) to allow the team to grab at least a loser point, or maybe 2 more here or there and its a different season. For the lopsided games, they were either outchanced heavily (and only BTO got us a point, whereas other teams have goalies who might have stolen a game or 2), or actually outchanced the other team but because of large differences in goalie play, the margin of victory was great.

    The 05-06 Oilers had bad goaltending, but ultimately stayed in the race because of center depth and an all-world D-man (I still can’t figure out how someone who blocked shots standing up was one of the best in the league at the job). But no Roli, no Game 7 of SCF, and possibly, no playoffs to begin with.

    That is why this team is dead. If they get a great D-man by trade, they still need some saves. Or they could get defense by committee and have a great goalie (e.g. 03-04 Flames), which would be my preference but I just don’t see any team parting with one of those, especially for unproven commodities like Reimer.

    Has there ever been a team in the league post 90s lockout collectively with such an atrocious SPG? This is 20 games in now.

    And lastly, I would say that there is a relatively larger share of Oilers post-mortem media coverage on the bad defensive play by forwards and the inadequacy of the D unit as a whole, as well as Eakins and Bucky and Smith, and the 4th line. Not much about the goalies, and there should be a whole lot more. If they are mentioned, it is often a sentence here. Is it because they would only be restating the obvious? Because if you are a goalie, or a pitcher, or a QB, you accept that you probably get more credit that you deserve when the team is working, and that you should get more criticism when the team is losing. Dubie needs to be called out more.

  146. Andy P says:

    G Money:
    That’s an interesting statement to make.

    Isn’t the value of trade ultimately in what you get for what you give?

    The absolute value of a player in a trade might be measured by things like skill level, position (C typically worth more than W), role (power forward vs playmaker, sniper vs passer, puck mover vs stay-at-home), age, and contract.

    Of those things, only skill level is an absolute value, the others are dependent on the context of a team’s situation: positional needs, balance of roster, need for more youth or more experience, and cap room.

    We can talk all we want about how good Yak is going to be, but if Tampa offered Stamkos straight up – I’d do that trade in a heartbeat.

    So the question is – if we trade Eberle, what would the return have to be in order to make that worthwhile?

    I will agree with you on this – most (not all) of the suggestions made so far would leave the team worse off over the long run.

    P.S. I tried farting during thunder once, it was fun!

    I suppose that I do not see any trades out there that would actually improve the team, nor that there are so many holes to fix as it looks like right now with all those injuries. We have a few holes, starting in goal, but BTO is pretty good and who knows, DD may come right in the course of this year once he gets used to his new baby and to his new equipment.

    Things are pointing in the right direction, so how about we see how the full roster plays together and perhaps just focus on fixing our goalie situation?

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