JETS AT OILERS G39, 13-14

After the Saturday night fireworks, a lot of us expected closed-door screaming and maybe some interesting quotes. It was a slow morning, but gave way to a quotable Sunday afternoon:

  • Dallas Eakins: “I’m pinning this loss on the bone-headed mistakes we make when we have everything going in our favour.”

I agree completely with this statement, that’s kind of what we’re seeing all year. Saturday night 5 minutes in I said “what the hell is THIS?” with the biggest smile, and two hours later I was walking the dog (this isn’t code, I actually walked the dog). Smart, smart, smart followed by stupid, stupid, stupid. To quote It’s a Wonderful Life, youth is wasted on all the wrong people.

  • Dallas Eakins on Gagner: “When you struggle as a player of his calibre, what you gravitate to immediately is ‘I gotta get some points’, yeah but let’s keep it out of our net first. He’s progressing, I know he’s committed.”

It really doesn’t matter at this point, the young man’s career is at a crossroads. This is a guy who as late as training camp looked like a part of the future, and right now you’d have to figure at least part of the management group is trying to figure a way to get him out of town. Injuries have enormous impact on players, the Kassian mugging being the most recent example.

  • Dallas Eakins on Hall: “Taylor is a smart kid, he understands the game.”

I’ve always thought he had a “sense” of the game, an “intuit” as opposed to being a student. Huh. You never know.

  • Dallas Eakins on Hall: “His defensive game has gone from something that I thought was very, very shaky, with no habit, to one where he’s starting to lead the way on how we want to play in our zone. He’s still got work to do, but if you wanted to go most-improved, it’s Taylor.”

I’m going to be honest, haven’t seen it. I’ve seen better effort and he’s broken up some plays by hauling ass and that’s new, maybe that’s what Eakins is talking about.

  • Dallas Eakins on Hall: “The goal for Taylor is that within a period of time, he will be the best defensive left-winger in the game—and he’s still going to get 100 points a game. He wants it.”

Taylor Hall’s greatest contribution to the defense during his career will be the number of offensive sorties he creates in pursuit of goals. He’s a wonderful player today, love that he’s working hard at being better.

  • Dallas Eakins on the team: “If we weren’t making any progress, I’d tell you. But we’re showing flashes that we are, and that’s what makes this so frustrating.”

Yes. Agreed. They really have to show the fanbase something tonight, though. The progress we’ve seen doesn’t do you much good if the coach gets fired.

 LINEUPS

At practice yesterday, the lines looked different again:

  1. Nuge-Hall-Perron: That’s some nice talent there. Lordy.
  2. Gagner-Joensuu-Eberle: Eberle must have given coach Eakins a very ugly tie for Christmas.
  3. Gordon-Smyth-Hemsky: This is a MacT line. I bet he smiles when they jump over the boards.
  4. Lander-Gazdic-Yakupov: Two role players and the Russian they’ll trade by summer.

 VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER

VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER 2013Even more interesting is Vollman’s take on this graph (analysis here) and his comments on Perron and Larsen. The is QUAL COMP, ZONE START and the bubble is the Oilers attempted shot differential when the given player is on the ice (blue good, pink bad, red dead).

Young Willis has a strong read about the team here, and I generally agree with him. I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that they’re going to re-sign Hemsky and trade Yakupov for a defenseman. The more logical move—dealing Eberle or finding value for Gagner —don’t strike me as MacT moves. He’s tried to deliver on promise (not to trade the kids) and will sacrifice the one who is farthest from the cluster’s center, and that’s the Russian. I hope I’m wrong about this, but don’t believe they’ll deal Eberle.

  • Nuge-Hall-Eberle
  • Legwand-Perron-Hemsky
  • Gordon-Kulemin-Gagner

It even works for the Sledgehammer.

TRADING A FORWARD FOR A DEFENSEMAN

We’ve talked about this many times, but the club is so far out of balance now that it’s reached a breaking point. All those kids on blue in the minors are miles away, Nurse even farther, and Ekblad barely shaves. Bite the bullet, made the cut and begin the healing. Trade freeze ends Dec. 27 midnight.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

SMASH -- "Mr. DiMaggio" Episode 103 -- Pictured: Debra Messing as Julia Houston -- Photo by: Patrick Harbron/NBCTSN 1260, the final show before Christmas goes at 10 this morning. Scheduled to appear:

10-1260 via text or @Lowetide_ on twitter. Merry Ho-Ho!

 

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346 Responses to "JETS AT OILERS G39, 13-14"

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  1. bookje says:

    Merry Festivus folks – air your grievances!

  2. Lowetide says:

    I gotta lot of problems with you people!

  3. jakethesnake says:

    It’s a Festivus for the rest of us. Now pass the RUM

  4. russ99 says:

    Lowetide,

    LOL! I’m sure…

    The coach will get fired if he doesn’t adapt and insists to stay the course. The problem is offense as much as defense and if we’re playing with the mindset of “let’s keep it out of our net first”, we’re not going to score many goals playing into the strategies of the heavy Eastern Conference and Western Conference teams we have slated the rest of the way and thus not win many more games this year – regardless who we trade for.

    Eakins has to take off the shackles, we’re not going to win 2-1 games with the talent on the roster. Funny, I said the exact same thing about Renney two years ago…

  5. barry.moore23 says:

    Guys, My wife thinks reading all these Oiler boards is making me insane. She’s a Flyer fan and has a lot of fun watching the games whether they win or lose. Ugh !! The serenity of blissful ignorance ….

    :) Peace from Illinois USA to all my Oiler brothers and sisters everywhere

  6. Woodguy says:

    “You, Lowe! My friends tell me that your team stinks!”

  7. leadfarmer says:

    I like Hall and all, but I strongly doubt his ability to get a 100 points per game. I would settle with 1.

  8. theres oil in virginia says:

    “I’m going to be honest, haven’t seen it. I’ve seen better effort and he’s broken up some plays by hauling ass and that’s new, maybe that’s what Eakins is talking about.”

    I don’t remember which game, but it may have been 1st period STL, Hall supported down low and picked the puck right off from the opponent. Wish I could remember more, but it was impressive and I don’t remember seeing him be so smart in the d-zone. There’s been a more consistent effort at getting the puck out too. I remember so many times when the puck would 2 feet from clearing the blue, and Hall would have possession, but he would fail to clear it. It still happens, but not as much. His support of the puck on tough breakouts is better also.

  9. Woodguy says:

    This is pretty much a scheduled win tonight.

    Nice to have after a few scheduled losses recently

    Oilers are a nice value betting wise today because of this.

    This is Winnipeg’s 3rd in 4th nights and the 2nd of a back-to-back on the road and the OIlers have a day’s rest at home.

    EDM HomeFen is 50.8% (18th in NHL)
    WIN AwayFen is 46.4% (24th in NHL)

    Starting goalies are probably DD .892 and Montoya .920

    WIN has the edge in net, but that’s the only edge they have.

    Bet 365 has the Oilers as a -120 favorite (bet $120 to win $100), and I figure it should at least -150 given WIN’s travel and games played situation.

  10. Woodguy says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    “I’m going to be honest, haven’t seen it. I’ve seen better effort and he’s broken up some plays by hauling ass and that’s new, maybe that’s what Eakins is talking about.”

    I don’t remember which game, but it may have been 1st period STL, Hall supported down low and picked the puck right off from the opponent.Wish I could remember more, but it was impressive and I don’t remember seeing him be so smart in the d-zone.There’s been a more consistent effort at getting the puck out too.I remember so many times when the puck would 2 feet from clearing the blue, and Hall would have possession, but he would fail to clear it.It still happens, but not as much.His support of the puck on tough breakouts is better also.

    Hall, Hemsky and RNH are the three Oiler fowards who have actually been causing turnovers with their back pressure.

    Hemsky leads the team in steals.

    You’ll never here that from the EDM MSM pretty much ever.

    That idiot Fraser on 1260 this morning was going on about the jersey that was thrown on the ice at Rexall last game.

    He said because it was a Hemsky jersey with an “A” that they guy was just throwing it out because it was a piece of garbage.

    What a clueless asshole.

    Al, please smack him when you see him today.

  11. Hammers says:

    Well its running 4 out of 5 to fire Eakins in the group I talk to . Only 3 of us say keep him. I fully understand there point but I don’t think McT will do it . In our own little sensus Yak isn’t the one gone its Gags with the comment 6 years and still the same basic problems . . Its funny how in a small sample its so heavily waited . One thing that is 10 to 5 for was to resign Hemsky .Biggest thing was our “D” again heavily waited , all but 1 to loose N.Schultz & Potter saying bring up Fedun & Marincin and don’t care if we get nothing for the 2 going . Larsen was basically 50/50 . It makes for interesting discussions when we get together . Merry Christmas LT OFF to Mexico .

  12. Woodguy says:

    Another good value bet today is PHI -130 at home to MIN.

    MIN played last night and with Harding out its either Backstrom (.895) or Kuemper (.625… he’s better than that, ubersmall sample)

    Watch Krider’s goal last night to make you feel better about DD: http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2013020551

    Backstrom is having a DD season for sure.

    PHI HomeFen 51.2
    MIN AwayFen 48.6

    There’s some value at -130

    Also, if you like stretching your bets a bit:

    NJD +175 at CHI

    CHI HomeFen 58.2
    NJD AwayFen 53.4

    Now I don’t think that NJD will win, but I think +175 (bet $100 to win $175) is far too much and the line should be something like +140 or so, therefore I see value in this bet.

  13. Caramel Obvious says:

    A couple of comments on Vor and Woodguy’s discussion yesterday. Vor gives the impression that he understands the issues but whether he does or not, his criticisms do not. To wit:

    He pulled out the old buzz saw “correlation is not causation.” There should be an equivalent of Godwin’s law for this phrase. It carries the weight of thought without doing any actual thinking. The conversation was about predicting an independent event based on past events. In this context talk of causation is absurd since by definition the future has not yet happened, and hence cannot be caused by the past.

    Instead of the misplaced talk of causation what the conversation was about was something, I think, everyone should agree upon. Despite the independence of future events in this case, past performance is the best prediction of future events. Everyone agrees this is true, right? (not a rhetorical question).

    Assuming everyone agrees with this, the important question, is what is the best indicator, or indicators, of past performance. The candidates are wins, goals, corsi, fenwick, shots, counting chances, stopwatch, etc. Here the challenge is more complicated. One method is to measure the correlation between past and future. This poses some problems concerning spurious correlation which I think Vor was aiming at with his misplaced comments on causation. The answer to this problem is to supplement the statistical correlation with a good theory. If you don’t have a theory that makes sense then the correlation is irrelevant. So let’s do some theorizing.

    First, wins are out. The fundamental currency of hockey is goals not wins. Wins are a secondary consequence of goals, they are not primary and are subject to large variation due to the distribution of goals.

    Goals are a decent indicator. However, there is a large amount of variation in goals that comes from the noise surrounding shooting and save percentage. So you need something that retains the currency of goals with less noise.

    This is where corsi, fenwick, and shots come in. In my opinion Corsi is out to because blocking shots and getting shots through, are real, skills, a product of ability on an individual level and design on a team level. That leaves Fenwick or simple shots. The close gets added to remove score effects.

    Scoring chances sounds like it would be good, but every attempt to count them, exposes them to large observer variation. The counts simply don’t match up. When Dennis King and Staples used to both count them the numbers were never the same.

    The stopwatch idea is a proxy for possession. However, possession is removed from the currency of goals. Goals require shots, not possession. There is no reason to believe that every team would translate possession into shots in the same way. The theory here isn’t sound.

    So that’s why Fenwick or shots are the single best measure of team performance. They aren’t perfect because they strip shooting and save percentage from the measure. This is a good thing because much of this is noise. But it isn’t all noise. A combined formula which uses goals and shots with regressed save/shooting percentages would probably be better.

  14. bones says:

    Woodguy:
    That idiot Fraser on 1260 this morning was going on about the jersey that was thrown on the ice at Rexall last game.

    He said because it was a Hemsky jersey with an “A” that they guy was just throwing it out because it was a piece of garbage.

    What a clueless asshole.

    Al, please smack him when you see him today.

    A shared grievance. Happy Festivus. At least Shaugger focuses more on comedy banter these days, and less on “insight”.

  15. Caramel Obvious says:

    As to what use Fenwick has for general managers it lets you know how your team is actually doing. For instance a few weeks ago the Devils were eight points out of the playoffs and the Leafs were in the playoffs. At that point I said that the Devils would make the playoffs and the Leafs would not. This was obvious and required no analysis at all, the shot data was so stark.

    That isn’t simply useful for general managers to know. It is required information. If you don’t know where you are you can’t know where you are going.

  16. bones says:

    Also, Al I hope you got Nielson a t-shirt with “Stats? Of corsi!” or something on

  17. steveb12344 says:

    “Now I don’t think that NJD will win, but I think +175 (bet $100 to win $175) is far too much and the line should be something like +140 or so, therefore I see value in this bet.”

    Be honest though. Are you putting up any of your own dough on NJD?

    I get exactly what you’re saying, but it kinda sounds like the guy who calls allin as an 8/1 dog, and cites pot odds because it’s paying 10/1.

    You’re still an 8/1 dog and extremely likely to lose.

    You could maybe make an argument in a cash game, but in tourney play it’s ridiculous imo.

  18. Caramel Obvious says:

    As for trade ideas, Gagner for Gardiner was floated yesterday. That isn’t realistic. The question is whether we could make it happen by taking Liles contract.

    If so I would do it. Gagner and Kessy for Gardiner and Liles. If it takes.N. Schultz too, then do it. Liles might even have value for the Oilers and if not buy him out in the summer (which the Leafs can’t do).

    Then if the rumours of Backlund are true, trade a second round pick for him.

    The team is much better overnight, it seems realistic to me, and it costs little in actual talent. That’s what this GM would try and do.

  19. denny33 says:

    Dallas Eakins on Hall: “His defensive game has gone from something that I thought was very, very shaky, with no habit,…
    *****************************************************************************

    This comment from our own head coach is going to shock a lot of people in Edmonton
    ( including the media …and crush some people in here )

    Very very shaky? No habit?

    Could this possibly be why Taylor Hall is not even in the conversation for the Olympic team?

    It is different when these comments come from coaches and management from other teams – we can just shoot them. But from our own coach?

  20. nesral says:

    I am not stoked about losing and I don’t really like Eakins story here but I think there is another issue going on.

    We have all heard stories about teams winning with a set of skilled forwards with no size (det, chi) I think that is an over simplification. I have zero faith in our “core”. I believe there is a ton of skill and should be a ton of value and that is where this team has hope.

    In recent years all of the games that gave us hope were games when the “rope a dope” worked. The more skill we acquired the more success we were going to have with our “rope a dope” style, and that is how we hammered the pants of some good teams.

    The most telling stat for me is that we are unable to beat any teams with discipline. All the big teams have to do is show up and wait and they win. As long as they don’t get all excited when Edmonton leaves them a massive hole to walk through they will win.

    Eakins (and I am sure MacT) are not willing to leave games up to shooting percentage any longer, they want this team to play like a real hockey team and they are built to play the rope a dope.

    The moral of the story is that trading Gagner or Yakapov or Eberle is only going to change out one cog of our square wheel. Yakapov is currently outside of the top 6 (but wont be for long) so trading 1 core player doesn’t even leave space in the top 6. I love these guys and am happy that I am not making the decisions, but I would like to see something like Gagner and Eberle and what ever else it takes, flipped for a big young defensive minded centre (think Coutourier) a rugged right winger who plays like Perron (minus some goals (Perron is the man)), and an Erhoff, Cambell, Coburn.

    Most importantly it has to happen before the deadline, I would lose a trade to move up the time line. If we don’t solve this problem early enough that the solution is demonstrated how much luck to you think that MacT will have convincing all of these free agents we are somehow going to miracle in the off season. (two goalies, 2 third liners who score 15 a piece, a second line centre, a second pairing defender) No way anyone of value signs on to this disaster, sucking this bad ends guys careers. We had some momentum in this regard in the last few years but it is gone and if MacT thinks that it will be there in July there will be no playoffs next year either.

  21. Gret99zky says:

    Eakins is not going to say anything bad about Hall to the press. The kid’s too important to the team and to Eakins’ future with it.

    I think the Oilers will extend Hemsky before the deadline and honor Gagner’s NMC. Eakins could set the record for least wins in a season and I think he remains.

    Yak likely sealed his fate when he had Igor come to town and question the omnipotent management/coaching of this team.

    Some are calling for comments from Lowe and MacT about the sweater and the losing.

    I hope to Gord they keep their damn mouths shut!

  22. Gret99zky says:

    Also, the season is clearly lost.

    Can’t Yak be sent down to OKC for a couple months to find his game/confidence?

    Is he that much of a flight risk?

  23. OilClog says:

    Yakupov, Petry, Maricin

    Mcdonagh, Callahan, Kreider

  24. Clay says:

    I wonder about MacT’s ability to give Eakins the runway he needs. I’m not as optimistic as LT and some others around these parts, but even I can see that there’s been improvement in some underlying areas. Breaking of bad habits.

    But where’s the line? I think we all know the dilemma – if a new coach is brought in, the learning curve starts all over again. But really, will MacT go down with the Eakins ship? Does he believe in Eakins enough to let him stay on even if they lose 50 games? 55? 60? Will a 60 loss season with no coaching change cost MacT his job? They’re on pace for 24 wins (58 losses). That’s more loses than the “bad years” that brought in Hall and RNH.

    It’s become a curiosity for me – can’t look away!

    Also – I agree that Yak is the one who’s going to be traded, and I’m fine with that. I’d prefer it be Gagner, but Gagner doesn’t garner the return of a top dman, regardless of what he’s packaged with (unless it’s with Yak, and is there a dman in the league worth Gagner + Yak that’s also affordable? Don’t say Weber).

    Yak is a fantastic talent. He’s got plus skating, a plus shot, he’s a rocket passer, he hits – seemingly a complete package. Except that he just doesn’t seem to know how to actually play hockey.

    Million dollar arm – 5 cent head. Just my opinion.

    Not that he won’t get it, but will he get it in time to contribute to the cluster?

  25. David says:

    Actually Ekblad grows a monster beard.

  26. Thinker says:

    I think yak just has a case of the MPS effect. Coach can’t find a way to make him part of the team. There is a sensational player there, and over time, he may emerge as the best of the cluster. His was a weak draft, and I think we are seeing the effects of rushing him. That being said I do think that eakins has hampered him a bit. Looking at eakins work in the ahl, I can’t help likening Yak to Khadri, who struggled to make the show for quite a while, but then exploded.

  27. Woodguy says:

    steveb12344:
    “Now I don’t think that NJD will win, but I think +175 (bet $100 to win $175) is far too much and the line should be something like +140 or so, therefore I see value in this bet.”

    Be honest though.Are you putting up any of your own dough on NJD?

    I get exactly what you’re saying, but it kinda sounds like the guy who calls allin as an 8/1 dog, and cites pot odds because it’s paying 10/1.

    You’re still an 8/1 dog and extremely likely to lose.

    You could maybe make an argument in a cash game, but in tourney play it’s ridiculous imo.

    Yes I hit NJD with my own money.

    Your tourney analogy isn’t correct btw.

    Tourney theory holds that taking small edges is important because the goal is to get all the chips. The sooner you can have a stack that is largest at the table, the quicker you can accumulate chips without fear of bust out.

    +175 is no where near an 8/1 dog, it translates to a 9/5 or 1.8/1.

  28. Woodguy says:

    Gret99zky:
    Also, the season is clearly lost.

    Can’t Yak be sent down to OKC for a couple months to find his game/confidence?

    Is he that much of a flight risk?

    He’still young enough that if they want to send him down it has to be to the CHL (since he was drafted from the CHL) and then they could not recall.

  29. rickithebear says:

    I believe 25-26ft in is the kill range for shooters.
    we desire a d corp that allows 27% from 20ft and 30% of the shots from 25ft in with a 14.5% score rate.
    outside that the score rate should be 4% for average and 2.5 to 3.5 for elite .

    Our defence allowed 16/27 59% of the shots to be from the kill zone.
    the expected average in that killl range is 18-20%
    we gave up 3 Goals on 16 shots 18.1%
    A klesla, Fistric type would give up 8 shots for the game in that range with 14.5% which would yield 1.15Goals

    our d gave up 11 out of range shots with an expected goal total of .45goals.
    they scored 2 goals 18.1%. Goalie or Forward back pressure? do not know!

    Our runway D allowed twice the number of shots in the kill zone as an elite team.
    that is not winning Hockey.

  30. John Chambers says:

    I looked to compare Yakupov to Bure or Kovalchuk. He didn’t. He compares more with Zherdev.

    YakCity would need to be at a ppg pace this season, and would need to be tilting the ice forward, not backward, to be considered “elite” at this point.

    I like the Russian, I really do. But good teams only need three scorers in the top 50 to win. We have those guys. What we need is a solid Dman as a return for Yak, along with a Vermette, a Winnik, and a Robyn Regehr circa 2008.

  31. art vandelay says:

    Not sure where it falls on the FenClose Sledgehammer, but I’ve got a formula that applies to the Oilers. It goes something like this:
    30, 30, 29, 23, 29
    Merry Christmas, Mickey Mouse Club fans.

  32. Woodguy says:

    art vandelay:
    Not sure where it falls on the FenClose Sledgehammer, but I’ve got a formula that applies to the Oilers. It goes something like this:
    30, 30, 29, 23, 29
    Merry Christmas, Mickey Mouse Club fans.

    Here’s a video just for you Art : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87RM_mb89Fo&feature=youtu.be

  33. justDOit says:

    Woodguy: Here’s a video just for you Art : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87RM_mb89Fo&feature=youtu.be

    I had something from liveleak.com in mind, but I like yours better. My link would probably result in a lifetime ban.

    Who is up for some feats of strength now?

    PK wins: http://distilleryimage7.ak.instagram.com/4ef3b264082311e38d1322000a1fb079_7.jpg

  34. jp says:

    Woodguy:

    That idiot Fraser on 1260 this morning was going on about the jersey that was thrown on the ice at Rexall last game.

    He said because it was a Hemsky jersey with an “A” that they guy was just throwing it out because it was a piece of garbage.

    Honestly, that’s just disgusting.

  35. Woodguy says:

    Woodguy: Yes I hit NJD with my own money.

    Your tourney analogy isn’t correct btw.

    Tourney theory holds that taking small edges is important because the goal is to get all the chips.The sooner you can have a stack that is largest at the table, the quicker you can accumulate chips without fear of bust out.

    +175 is no where near an 8/1 dog, it translates to a 9/5 or 1.8/1.

    Another place where your analogy falls down is that sports betting is like a cash game, not a tourney.

    You have your roll and you bet X amount of units per game depending on what you are thinking.

    You’re equating me to betting one unit on NJD (actually hit them once and are a part of a small parlay) to betting my roll on them.

    Nothing could be further from reality.

    Bankroll management is uber-important in ring games and in sports betting.

  36. steveb12344 says:

    Woodguy: Yes I hit NJD with my own money.

    Your tourney analogy isn’t correct btw.

    Tourney theory holds that taking small edges is important because the goal is to get all the chips.The sooner you can have a stack that is largest at the table, the quicker you can accumulate chips without fear of bust out.

    +175 is no where near an 8/1 dog, it translates to a 9/5 or 1.8/1.

    I agree with that, other than my point is that calling allin (unless maybe <10BB) when you only have a 12.5% of not getting busted is not a good gamble. I alluded to cash games being different only because you have the option to rebuy, therefore playing the odds no matter how marginal they are is generally the correct play.

    Also if you think Jersey has a better than 12.5% (or in this case 33.3% to make your bet good) chance of winning in Chicago than you are delusional.

  37. jp says:

    John Chambers:
    I looked to compare Yakupov to Bure or Kovalchuk. He didn’t. He compares more with Zherdev.

    YakCity would need to be at a ppg pace this season, and would need to be tilting the ice forward, not backward, to be considered “elite” at this point.

    I like the Russian, I really do. But good teams only need three scorers in the top 50 to win. We have those guys. What we need is a solid Dman as a return for Yak, along with a Vermette, a Winnik, and a Robyn Regehr circa 2008.

    Kovalchuk was scoring at a ~ 35G 60PT -25 pace in his first 2 years (0.83 PPG his 2nd year). Bure stayed in Russia for 2 yrs after being drafted – began his rookie season at 6 months older than Yakupov is now. Kovalchuk was scoring (as Yakupov was last season) at the same age, but not tilting the ice yet. Bure hadn’t arrived.

    I’m not saying Yakupov is going to be that good, but I don’t see how you’re ruling it out based on the above.

  38. steveb12344 says:

    Woodguy: Another place where your analogy falls down is that sports betting is like a cash game, not a tourney.

    You have your roll and you bet X amount of units per game depending on what you are thinking.

    You’re equating me to betting one unit on NJD (actually hit them once and are a part of a small parlay) to betting my roll on them.

    Nothing could be further from reality.

    Bankroll management is uber-important in ring games and in sports betting.

    This is correct. You are however still trying to use math to justify betting a pretty much sure-fire loser.

    As I said you need them to win 33.3% of the time to make 1.9/1 a good bet, and I just don’t see them doing it.

    Chi is 12-2-5 at home and NJD is a below average team in the NHL.

    Show me the math that says NJ can win there >33.3% of the time.

    There is a reason bookies make money.

  39. jp says:

    denny33:
    Dallas Eakins on Hall: “His defensive game has gone from something that I thought was very, very shaky, with no habit,…
    *****************************************************************************

    This comment from our own head coach is going to shock a lot of people in Edmonton
    ( including the media …and crush some people in here )

    Very very shaky? No habit?

    Could this possibly be why Taylor Hall is not even in the conversation for the Olympic team?

    It is different when these comments come from coaches and management from other teams – we can just shoot them. But from our own coach?

    I don’t think there’s much doubt this is related to the Olympic team snub. It also shows that this team has issues beyond the coach/GM/president.

    This whole thing is painful, but for my part I still have hope that Eakins can make these kids accountable and that MacT can fill the holes/balance out the roster going forward.

  40. Woodguy says:

    steveb12344,

    Also if you think Jersey has a better than 12.5% (or in this case 33.3% to make your bet good) chance of winning in Chicago than you are delusional.

    I heartily support your right to be wrong.

  41. jp says:

    Woodguy: Here’s a video just for you Art : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87RM_mb89Fo&feature=youtu.be

    The Corgi Gords were kind that day.

  42. steveb12344 says:

    Dating back to last year Chi is 30-5-8 at home. They don’t lose there to the NJD’s of the world.

    Actually since it is paying less that 2/1 you would theoretically need to win 4/10 to show a profit.

    No way that can happen, thus it is a bad bet.

  43. Cobbler says:

    Woodguy,

    I know you said it was just for Art, but I had to watch it as well.

    Hope you don’t mind Art?

    Happy Festivus!

  44. steveb12344 says:

    Woodguy,

    Anyways, sorry for being argumentative about it. I don’t mean anything bad-spirited about it.

    It’s just if you are going to use math to justify that bet (actually paying exactly 7/4 a little less than 1.9/1) than you have to believe that NJ could win this game 4/10 times, or more precisely 37/100 to show a marginal profit.

    Do you believe that NJ can win this game better than 36.36% of the time?

  45. fifthcartel says:

    I don’t know if any of you saw Wills’ article on Gagner to TOR/NJD, but doesn’t a Henrique swap make some sense?

  46. steveb12344 says:

    steveb12344:
    Woodguy,

    Anyways, sorry for being argumentative about it.I don’t mean anything bad-spirited about it.

    It’s just if you are going to use math to justify that bet (actually paying exactly 7/4 a little less than 1.9/1) than you have to believe that NJ could win this game 4/10 times, or more precisely 37/100 to show a marginal profit.

    Do you believe that NJ can win this game better than 36.36% of the time?

    Don’t forget that Chicago has won 70% of their home games dating back to the start of last season. (including ot/so losses)

    That would mean Jersey would have to be a significantly above average team to have an expectation of >36% to win this game.

    No way I give NJD that much credit, so for me I take Chicago all day every day and twice on Sundays.

  47. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Ekblad barely shaves

    Judging by this playoff beard as a 17-year-old, Ekblad doesn’t shave at all.

    Look like Shea Weber much? Holy crap.

  48. justDOit says:

    steveb12344: Don’t forget that Chicago has won 70% of their home games dating back to the start of last season. (including ot/so losses)

    That would mean Jersey would have to be a significantly above average team to have an expectation of >36% to win this game.

    No way I give NJD that much credit, so for me I take Chicago all day every day and twice on Sundays.

    Well my theory that home teams near the holiday break lay an egg more often than normal, suggests that NJD will win in a SO. That’s a solid theory my friend, so I’m making NJ my lock of the week!

    http://www.storx.ca/~storx/tipe/pictures/big_lock2.jpg

  49. Andy P says:

    jp: I don’t think there’s much doubt this is related to the Olympic team snub. It also shows that this team has issues beyond the coach/GM/president.

    This whole thing is painful, but for my part I still have hope that Eakins can make these kids accountable and that MacT can fill the holes/balance out the roster going forward.

    Eakins can make these kids accountable and MacT is quite capable of filling the holes.

    Except:
    Less and less people will want to play on this horrible team, and,
    this team will remain horrible as long as we retain the Lowe appointed, incompetent assistant coaches, that are now at the heart of this team’s poor performance.

    Everything else is shuffling deck chairs.

  50. steveb12344 says:

    justDOit: Well my theory that home teams near the holiday break lay an egg more often than normal, suggests that NJD will win in a SO. That’s a solid theory my friend, so I’m making NJ my lock of the week!

    http://www.storx.ca/~storx/tipe/pictures/big_lock2.jpg

    You mean the NJ team that is winning 38% of their games on the road, and 23% of their games against the West.

    Versus the Hawks who have won 71% of their home games, and are beating the East at a clip of 75%.

    I might give NJ 1-2 wins out of 10 in this game, but nowhere near the required 4/10 to make a 7/4 payout worthwhile.

    That’s all I’m saying. I still wish you and WG good luck on your bets, as well as a happy holiday for you and yours!

  51. jp says:

    Andy P: Eakins can make these kids accountable and MacT is quite capable of filling the holes.

    Except:
    Less and less people will want to play on this horrible team, and,
    this team will remain horrible as long as we retain the Lowe appointed, incompetent assistant coaches, that are now at the heart of this team’s poor performance.

    Everything else is shuffling deck chairs.

    I get that the assistants (along with many players and 6 rings) are one of the constants through multiple coaches and years of futility. It’s attractive to lay the blame on them since we’re at a loss to explain the continued issues with this club, but I think you’re giving these guys too much credit. Assistant coaches can play an important role on a team to be sure, but to think Steve Smith and Kelly Buchberger are the biggest causes of the mess the Oilers are currently in seems quite a stretch to me. “Everything (aside from the assistant coaches) is shuffling deck chairs”? Really? It’s possible, but it seems extremely unlikely to me.

    I don’t know the answers either, but to me parsimony points to the players.

  52. Woodguy says:

    steveb12344:
    Dating back to last year Chi is 30-5-8 at home.They don’t lose there to the NJD’s of the world.

    Actually since it is paying less that 2/1 you would theoretically need to win 4/10 to show a profit.

    No way that can happen, thus it is a bad bet.

    NJD has the best AwayFen in the league and I like Schenider’s .915 to make that bet profitable.

  53. Andy P says:

    jp: I get that the assistants (along with many players and 6 rings) are one of the constants through multiple coaches and years of futility. It’s attractive to lay the blame on them since we’re at a loss to explain the continued issues with this club, but I think you’re giving these guys too much credit. Assistant coaches can play an important role on a team to be sure, but to think Steve Smith and Kelly Buchberger are the biggest causes of the mess the Oilers are currently in seems quite a stretch to me. “Everything (aside from the assistant coaches) is shuffling deck chairs”? Really? It’s possible, but it seems extremely unlikely to me.

    I don’t know the answers either, but to me parsimony points to the players.

    I think the mess extends to other factors as well, including the lack of balance of the roster, and the mess that Tambo left behind. Obviously it’s the players who make the mistakes on the ice and play poorly on defence.

    But if we want to hold Eakins accountable for the mess that is the Oilers today, then Eakins has to be given the freedom to hire his own assistants. These assistants have produced poor team after poor team under coaches with good records, and what coaching record do they have? Bucky took an abysmal farm team up to .500. Todd Nelson took that farm team to perennial playoff contender.
    How about swap Bucky with Todd, see if Bucky can maintain Todd’s record with the team Todd succeeded with.

    Where a core issue exists, everything else you do outside of addressing the core issue remains just noise. Frustrating, but true.

  54. Woodguy says:

    Uh oh.

    Easkins rips the fan for throwing his jersey on the ice for “quittting”

    Hey Dallas,

    The last time this team made the playoffs you weren’t even an AHL assistant.

    Its been 8 long years.

    You do not have the currency to call out the most loyal fan base in the NHL.

    8 years of top 5 ticket prices, sold out house, and no playoffs.

    No sir, you do not have the type of currency.

  55. justDOit says:

    steveb12344,

    Don’t lump me in with WG – he’s using stats n stuff. I have a guy on reddit who told me that Kane used 3 drops per eye of Clear Eye before getting out of his truck this morning in the players parking lot. Gold!!!

    Now to go withdraw the kid’s college fund – new truck time for Daddy!

  56. steveb12344 says:

    Woodguy: NJD has the best AwayFen in the league and I like Schenider’s .915 to make that bet profitable.

    NJD are 8-10-3 on the road. Good for 14th overall in the league.

    Sounds more like an indictment of Fenwick than some kind of edge.

    Chi is 12-2-5 at home. I bet their HomeFen is pretty good too.

    Anyways I’m not disputing anything you’ve said. I just want to know if you think NJ could win this game >36% of the time? That is what it would take to make it profitable.

  57. bookje says:

    Personally, I blame the fans for not worshiping the Oilers enough and cheering louder.

  58. justDOit says:

    Woodguy,

    I cringed too when he said that. The “I’ve been in this city long enough to know the people…” line seemed like he was told to say that. No Mr. Eakins, that jersey on the ice was a symptom of what’s becoming a lost decade (my apologies to Japan…) in the city, not just some ‘quitter’ who had too much to drink.

    But according to hockeydb, his first year as an assistant was 05-06.

  59. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: 8 years of top 5 ticket prices

    Wow! Somehow that little detail has escaped me. I figured top half for sure, but top 5???

    Agreed that Eakins and the rest of mgmt. should take advice from LT and have a cup of STFU.

  60. Alsker says:

    Woodguy:
    Uh oh.

    Easkins rips the fan for throwing his jersey on the ice for “quittting”

    Hey Dallas,

    The last time this team made the playoffs you weren’t even an AHL assistant.

    Its been 8 long years.

    You do not have the currency to call out the most loyal fan base in the NHL.

    8 years of top 5 ticket prices, sold out house, and no playoffs.

    No sir, you do not have the type of currency.

    He’s been taking media lessons from Klowe…~.definately going to raise his popularity in Oil country~

  61. Woodguy says:

    steveb12344: NJD are 8-10-3 on the road.Good for 14th overall in the league.

    Sounds more like an indictment of Fenwick than some kind of edge.

    Chi is 12-2-5 at home.I bet their HomeFen is pretty good too.

    Anyways I’m not disputing anything you’ve said.I just want to know if you think NJ could win this game >36% of the time?That is what it would take to make it profitable.

    You know that pointing at their record is exactly like saying “I saw 22 beat AA all in preflop 3 times in a row, no way do I go all in with AA”

    I get your point and you are free to feel that way, but stop trying to convince me that become a results oriented thinker when it comes to gambling.

    Lordy, I even said:

    “Also, if you like stretching your bets a bit:”

    So just stop

  62. Woodguy says:

    theres oil in virginia: Wow!Somehow that little detail has escaped me.I figured top half for sure, but top 5???

    Agreed that Eakins and the rest of mgmt. should take advice from LT and have a cup of STFU.

    Example from a few years ago:

    http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.com/average-nhl-ticket-prices-for-2011-2012-season/

  63. Factotum says:

    Woodguy:
    Uh oh.

    Eakins rips the fan for throwing his jersey on the ice for “quittting”

    I’ve been an Eakins fan. But IMO, to attack the jersey-thrower (and, by extension, everyone else who feels EXACTLY the same way) – when you’re the head coach of a team with the Oilers’ record of futility and have led them to a gaudy 11-24-3 record – is nothing short of a fireable offense.

  64. Woodguy says:

    Bryz gets the start.

    Writing has been on the wall for DD for a while, but starting Bryz after a 6-0 game colors the writing in with dark paint.

  65. Woodguy says:

    Factotum: I’ve been an Eakins fan.But IMO, to attack the jersey-thrower (and, by extension, everyone else who feels EXACTLY the same way) – when you’re the head coach of a team with the Oilers’ record of futility and have led them to a gaudy 11-24-3 record – is nothing short of a fireable offense.

    Just listened to the whole clip on Oilers now.

    Its not as damning and Eakins back peddles a bunch right after he says it, but its out there.

    Its not quite a firing offence (based on the whole clip) but the man needs to pick his spots better.

  66. RMGS says:

    Woodguy: Easkins rips the fan for throwing his jersey on the ice for “quittting”

    So, I’m officially off the Coach Eakins bandwagon!

    I’m sure his comments will be rationalized, but what a dumb f%ck, especially in light of who the “quitter” is – a construction worker plying his trade up north.

    At least this shows that Coach Eakins fits right in with the organizational culture.

  67. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that they’re going to re-sign Hemsky and trade Yakupov for a defenseman. The more logical move—dealing Eberle or finding value for Gagner —don’t strike me as MacT moves.”

    It’s interesting that the 1st rounders (this year and next) have so quickly fallen out of our trade fantasies as it becomes increasingly clear that this year’s pick is going to be for an impact player.

    I genuinely wonder if MacT is thinking along the same lines. He very recently said the picks were on the table and also very recently named both a core of 5-6 and 8-9 players on the current team.

    Of course, this is a man that discovered a head coach over night, so he may very well be impulsive.

    The line in the sand for me is simply this: if you are trading either this year’s 1st rounder or Yak or Eberle it better be for a peach. I’m talking about a #1D under contract (or, like JBow, willing to sign) for reasonable dollars and somewhere between 25-30 years old. It has to tick all the boxes for that price.

    ———
    Also, I LT said the other day you take Reinhart over Ekblad and Draisaitl… I think that is right given Reinhart’s apparent “vision” and “2-way” play. But, Draisaitl is right there in the boxcar fight:

    http://www.whl.ca/stats/show/type/top_scorers/ls_season/last

  68. Jordan says:

    All in all, I’m still quite impressed with the man.

    The only thing that surprises me more is that he hasn’t gone off more than he already has.

    This team is killing him – both as a hockey man, and as a coach.

    I agree with what was said earlier – no one is going to want to come anywhere near this team – whether they’re coaches or players.

    The Edmonton Oilers – destroying the careers of players and coaches alike since July 2006.

    (Until they win a game – then they’re the next dynasty team. Again.)

  69. ashley says:

    Woodguy:
    Another good value bet today is PHI -130 at home to MIN.

    MIN played last night and with Harding out its either Backstrom (.895) or Kuemper (.625… he’s better than that, ubersmall sample)

    Watch Krider’s goal last night to make you feel better about DD:http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2013020551

    Backstrom is having a DD season for sure.

    PHI HomeFen 51.2
    MIN AwayFen 48.6

    There’s some value at -130

    Also, if you like stretching your bets a bit:

    NJD +175 at CHI

    CHI HomeFen 58.2
    NJD AwayFen 53.4

    Now I don’t think that NJD will win, but I think +175 (bet $100 to win $175) is far too much and the line should be something like +140 or so, therefore I see value in this bet.

    Interesting stuff, Woodguy. I’m in a holding pattern here with nothing to do, so I looked at extraskater and odds at a site called Pinnacle Sports. I don’t gamble, but if I did, I would identify the NYR as the best value bet for today. NYR are -128 at home against the leafs. From a statistical perspective, there is very good chance they win this game most nights, and the odds would seem better placed in the -200 range.

    I agree with NJD. I think they are showing to be a better team than anyone realizes yet. Chicago is the best, but NJD should give them a run for their money. +192 is too high for NJD in this game.

    Those are the two big ones I can see. Other more mildly favourable mispriced odds where I would bet if I was a bettor would be ANA (vs WSH), PIT(vs OTT), PHI(vs MIN), DAL(vs LA). Though the mispricing in these cases does not seem a egregious as NYR and NJD. The rest of the odds seem about right.

    The problem, of course, is that lady luck can wreak havoc on any individual game making predicitions challenging. The other problem is that in the games right before xmas, there are often unusual results since some of the better teams have their minds on jetting away for a few days of holiday before the game even starts.

    I think the Edmonton odds are about right for tonight.

    Fun stuff.

    I also had a chance to read about how the odds are set (in reply to a poster above who indicated that the book sets odds to make money). It sounds like the odds are set by “market”, not the book. The book just wants a representative amount of money on each side of the bet. The profit is from the spread between the odds of winning and losing, not on outsmarting bettors. So in reality, a bettor is taking a “value” bet is saying that the balance of the other bettors wagering on the game have not put their money on the right horse.

  70. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Here’s Eakins presser today:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=519210&catid=4

    chat about the jersey dominates the last half.

    I think he’s guilty of over-identifying the band with the fans, which, ironically is something fans do all the time.

    Even us ridiculously dedicated fans can easily separate “real life” from “fan life.” If I quit on my “fan life,” it says very little about my character in “real life.” It is certainly not a moral failing in the manner Eakins makes it out to be.

    A fan saying: “hey, this sucks, I’m going to spend my time and money elsewhere until this experience is more rewarding”

    Is miles from a real life person “quitting” or showing some character flaw. It’s actually a simple rational calculation, one that doesn’t belong in the realm of moral praise or blame.

    This disjunction is going to come back to haunt Eakins.

  71. steveb12344 says:

    ashley,

    Look I simply pointed out that if you are getting a 7/4 payout you would need to win that bet >36.36% of the time to make it profitable in the long run.

    That is not opinion. It is a fact!

    Now the only thing in question here is if you like NJD to be a winner more than 36% of the time in this particular game.

    I showed stats that The Hawks win >70% of their home games, and almost 80% of their games against the East.

    So IMO I can not give NJD a better chance than maybe 20-25% at best. So I believe it’s a bad bet.

    We all have our own ideas about how we would handicap games. That’s why we gamble.

    If WG and yourself believe that NJD have an expectation of winning this game >36% of the time, than great. Have at er!

    To call the <2/1 payout egregious, would be stretching it a bit IMO.

  72. OilClog says:

    So Eakins just killed any “tier 2″ fan support, good on ya coach. ;)

    I’m leaning towards 70/30 MacT is coachc by Feb.

  73. regwald says:

    OilClog:
    So Eakins just killed any “tier 2″ fan support, good on ya coach.

    I’m leaning towards 70/30 MacT is coachc by Feb.

    So, announced before or after the Olympic break ? lol

    I am thinking he might not make it through January at this rate.

  74. bendelson says:

    The airing of greivances is standard practice around these parts… it’s Festivus every damn day in Oiler country!

    Bendelson’s Festivus grievance:

    How can it be that I can take nothing more than a quick look at the Oilers in pre-season and laugh at the idea of the playoffs (I referenced Jim Mora to capture my point) and then predict Yakupov spends time ‘lost’ on the 4th line this season due to the presence of a rejuvenated Hemsky and a coaching staff without a clue (and get riduclued for it no less)?

    Yes, it is true that I am getting a tad crotchety as the time marches on and there IS a documented history of clarivoyance in the Bendelson family tree but seriously…

    I expect more from the Lowetidian Inteliigentsia.

    Now, to honour the Festivus traditions in full, I will now attempt to satifsfy the feats of strength portion of today’s celebration by lifting the massive chip off of my shoulder.

    Whoa. There goes my fucking back.

  75. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: This disjunction is going to come back to haunt Eakins.

    Yeah, of all the things he’s said, I think this one will require damage control. Maybe he should have stuck with a statement like:

    “Well, we suck really bad, so I’m not surprised they’re throwing away our jerseys. I can’t believe we’re still charging actual dollars for those things and people are still paying the 5th highest ticket prices in the league to watch us suck! I guess it’s masochism…or maybe Rexall Place’s plumbing is releasing pharmaceuticals into the civic water supply. Did I mention we suck…?”

  76. oliveoilers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Here’s Eakins presser today:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=519210&catid=4

    chat about the jersey dominates the last half.

    I think he’s guilty of over-identifying the band with the fans, which, ironically is something fans do all the time.

    Even us ridiculously dedicated fans can easily separate “real life” from “fan life.” If I quit on my “fan life,” it says very little about my character in “real life.” It is certainly not a moral failing in the manner Eakins makes it out to be.

    A fan saying: “hey, this sucks, I’m going to spend my time and money elsewhere until this experience is more rewarding”

    Is miles from a real life person “quitting” or showing some character flaw. It’s actually a simple rational calculation, one that doesn’t belong in the realm of moral praise or blame.

    This disjunction is going to come back to haunt Eakins.

    I agree. The jersey toss was a pique of passion at the horrible situation that is the situation. Some people within the Oilers organisation may do as well to show a little passion of their own. And apparently these days, you can say “I get that the fans are frustrated, I get it” then basically call them morons and get away with it. Both Stuaffs and DE. Do they truly get it? Lip service? This is gonna get worse before it gets better. Predicting another good 1st period tonight followed by doggy poop. And maybe DE has just given KLowe his sacrificial lamb. We’ll know if he gives DE an endorsement after xmas. Kiss of death!

  77. regwald says:

    oliveoilers: I agree.The jersey toss was a pique of passion at the horrible situation that is the situation.Some people within the Oilers organisation may do as well to show a little passion of their own.And apparently these days, you can say “I get that the fans are frustrated, I get it” then basically call them morons and get away with it.Both Stuaffs and DE.Do they truly get it?Lip service?This is gonna get worse before it gets better.Predicting another good 1st period tonight followed by doggy poop.And maybe DE has just given KLowe his sacrificial lamb.We’ll know if he gives DE an endorsement after xmas.Kiss of death!

    Well, the Jets are playing their 3rd game in 4 nights after playing at home to Florida on Friday, in Vancouver on Sunday and now Edmonton tonight.

    I would certainly say they are ripe for the picking. The Oilers couldn’t have a much easier adversary tonight at home.

  78. OilClog says:

    I’m hoping for another 6-0 blowout, ice littered in all sorts of Oilers gear.

    Sadly, Oilers win 8-2 or something stupid and the circus continues.

  79. OilClog says:

    Even the eastern media is going off about the jersey war.. This is the point where the fans can truly take control of this situation. I hope the “tier 1″ fans that show up, are in the possession of good tossing skills.

  80. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    24 minutes ago
    @DarrenDreger: I don’t understand the backlash? The team should be sour with so-called fan…

    25 minutes ago
    @DarrenDreger: Eakins pays huge compliment to people of Edmonton and calls out 1 individual for disrespecting the Oilers by throwing sweater on the ice…

    42 minutes ago
    @rayferrarotsn: I think Eakins taking on the fan who threw his jersey is howling at the moon – no possible upside to it .. Plenty enough to worry about

    1 hour ago
    @TSNRyanRishaug: Can confirm it was a Hemsky jersey, and an imitation in the 35 dollar range.. not a real one. That’s some investigative reporting, I know.

  81. regwald says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    24 minutes ago
    @DarrenDreger: I don’t understand the backlash? The team should be sour with so-called fan…

    25 minutes ago
    @DarrenDreger: Eakins pays huge compliment to people of Edmonton and calls out 1 individual for disrespecting the Oilers by throwing sweater on the ice…

    42 minutes ago
    @rayferrarotsn: I think Eakins taking on the fan who threw his jersey is howling at the moon – no possible upside to it .. Plenty enough to worry about

    1 hour ago
    @TSNRyanRishaug: Can confirm it was a Hemsky jersey, and an imitation in the 35 dollar range.. not a real one. That’s some investigative reporting, I know.

    Ya, love the Rishaug tweet. Really ? it matters ? ridiculous MSM support of a bad PR message from Eakins.

  82. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Thanks Rom. That series of texts indicates to me what I think I already knew:

    1) Dreger is disconnected with reality and sees his livelyhood threatened a bit by fan revolt.
    2) Ferraro is well-grounded. Irregardless (that’s for you LT!) of how he feels about the incident, he knows that STFU is the best recipe.
    3) Rishaug is a douche.

  83. Woodguy says:

    ashley,

    Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out.

    NYR played last night, that’s always a factor.

    That said NYR’s HomeFen is 52.7% and TOR’s AwayFen is 41.7% a massive gap.

    TOR’s goaltending is better than NYR now unless Talbot’s in.

    I laid off on that one, but looking at it again, maybe I should have hit it.

    I hate betting a team to win the 2nd of a B2B, but at home its not as bad.

  84. Woodguy says:

    steveb12344:
    ashley,

    Look I simply pointed out that if you are getting a 7/4 payout you would need to win that bet >36.36% of the time to make it profitable in the long run.

    That is not opinion.It is a fact!

    Now the only thing in question here is if you like NJD to be a winner more than 36% of the time in this particular game.

    I showed stats that The Hawks win >70% of their home games, and almost 80% of their games against the East.

    So IMO I can not give NJD a better chance than maybe 20-25% at best.So I believe it’s a bad bet.

    We all have our own ideas about how we would handicap games.That’s why we gamble.

    If WG and yourself believe that NJD have an expectation of winning this game >36% of the time, than great.Have at er!

    To call the <2/1 payout egregious, would be stretching it a bit IMO.

    I’ve saying that’s my expectation since the first post.

    You disagree, that’s great.

    Now stop.

  85. Woodguy says:

    bendelson:
    The airing of greivances is standard practice around these parts…it’s Festivus every damn day in Oiler country!

    Bendelson’s Festivus grievance:

    How can it be that I can take nothing more than a quick look at the Oilers in pre-season and laugh at the idea of the playoffs (I referenced Jim Mora to capture my point) and then predict Yakupov spends time ‘lost’ on the 4th line this season due to the presence of a rejuvenated Hemsky and a coaching staff without a clue (and get riduclued for it no less)?

    Yes, it is true that I am getting a tad crotchety as the time marches on andthere IS a documented history of clarivoyance in the Bendelson family tree but seriously…

    I expect more from the Lowetidian Inteliigentsia.

    Now, to honour the Festivus traditions in full, I will now attempt to satifsfy the feats of strength portion of today’s celebration by lifting the massive chip off of my shoulder.

    Whoa.There goes my fucking back.

    Link to your post so you can air your grievances with vigor!

  86. jp says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Here’s Eakins presser today:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=519210&catid=4

    chat about the jersey dominates the last half.

    I think he’s guilty of over-identifying the band with the fans, which, ironically is something fans do all the time.

    Even us ridiculously dedicated fans can easily separate “real life” from “fan life.” If I quit on my “fan life,” it says very little about my character in “real life.” It is certainly not a moral failing in the manner Eakins makes it out to be.

    A fan saying: “hey, this sucks, I’m going to spend my time and money elsewhere until this experience is more rewarding”

    Is miles from a real life person “quitting” or showing some character flaw. It’s actually a simple rational calculation, one that doesn’t belong in the realm of moral praise or blame.

    This disjunction is going to come back to haunt Eakins.

    Don’t forget that our “fan life” is a hockey man’s “real life”, which I’m sure can skew their perceptions more than a little.

    Completely agree with your main point though.

  87. WeirsBeard says:

    We have had eight years of grievances. Let’s get to the feats of strength!

  88. Woodguy says:

    I’m bent at the Oilers because they kept taking my “FIRE LOWE” signs away when I brought them to the game.

    I hid one under a “TSN” sign once.

    Its said:

    Tank for
    Seguin
    Now!

    Slipped the Fire Lowe sign out from the other before a faceoff that would put my seat in the picture and they confiscated the sign in about 35 seconds.

  89. Woodguy says:

    ashley,

    I bet on bet365 btw.

    I find it consistently good for hockey line.

    Will watch Pinnacle and see if its better.

    Would have loved to get +192 tonight.

    Would have made me and Steve1231242313 feel bettter.

    :)

  90. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Here’s Eakins presser today:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=519210&catid=4

    chat about the jersey dominates the last half.

    I think he’s guilty of over-identifying the band with the fans, which, ironically is something fans do all the time.

    Even us ridiculously dedicated fans can easily separate “real life” from “fan life.” If I quit on my “fan life,” it says very little about my character in “real life.” It is certainly not a moral failing in the manner Eakins makes it out to be.

    A fan saying: “hey, this sucks, I’m going to spend my time and money elsewhere until this experience is more rewarding”

    Is miles from a real life person “quitting” or showing some character flaw. It’s actually a simple rational calculation, one that doesn’t belong in the realm of moral praise or blame.

    This disjunction is going to come back to haunt Eakins.

    Agreed.

    For Eakins the Oilers are his life and he eats, lives and breathes it.

    He forgets thats it is entertainment for us and throwing the jersey can just mean, “you’re not worth my $ anymore”

    He’s not quitting, he making a wiser entertainment dollar decision.

  91. regwald says:

    Woodguy:
    I’m bent at the Oilers because they kept taking my “FIRE LOWE” signs away when I brought them to the game.

    I hid one under a “TSN” sign once.

    Its said:

    Tank for
    Seguin
    Now!

    Slipped the Fire Lowe sign out from the other before a faceoff that would put my seat in the picture and they confiscated the sign in about 35 seconds.

    Back when the Nike goalie ads were all the rage, Rexall ushers confiscated a “Roy wears panties” sign in about 2 minutes when it was flashed up.

  92. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    Uh oh.
    Easkins rips the fan for throwing his jersey on the ice for “quittting”
    Hey Dallas,
    The last time this team made the playoffs you weren’t even an AHL assistant.
    Its been 8 long years.
    You do not have the currency to call out the most loyal fan base in the NHL.
    8 years of top 5 ticket prices, sold out house, and no playoffs.
    No sir, you do not have the type of currency.
    *****************************************************
    Making waves even in Winnipeg….

    All kinds of laughing at the Oilers organization this morning in Winnipeg.

    Gimme on the schedule even though Winnipeg played yesterday….

    You have to beat the doormats of the league.

    Fired their coach over Skype!! Classy.

    At some point – the laughing at us will end right?

    A team like Winnipeg – calls us ‘gimme’s.

  93. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    jp: Don’t forget that our “fan life” is a hockey man’s “real life”, which I’m sure can skew their perceptions more than a little.

    Completely agree with your main point though.

    Woodguy: Agreed.

    For Eakins the Oilers are his life and he eats, lives and breathes it.

    He forgets thats it is entertainment for us and throwing the jersey can just mean, “you’re not worth my $ anymore”

    He’s not quitting, he making a wiser entertainment dollar decision.

    I completely get his POV, which is why for a player, manager, scout, coach, etc. — whose livelihood and sense of worth depends a lot on their performance and drive etc. — “quitting” would rightly lead to the upbraiding Eakins delivers.

    And, I can kind of get the whole projection thing onto the fans… but here’s the thing. You get away with that if you say it right after the game, in the heat of the moment.

    He thought and probably talked about that jersey for 2+ days. This was a considered opinion.

    At no time did it occur to him or the people he talked to that the fans don’t owe him or the team any loyalty, work ethic, commitment, etc. Nothing. Their is no formal or informal arrangement here where fans are obliged to the team in this regard.

    Fans have an obligation to the general rules of society and decorum, which is why we condemn rioters, drunkards, etc. But Eakins didn’t complain that the fan was littering or something of that nature. He complained that the fan was a “quitter.”

    There is simply no way that statement makes any moral sense. There is no obligation which that fan has breached.

  94. WeirsBeard says:

    Bohologo: Cheering for this team requires a nontrivial amount of (emotional) strength.

    Seriously, who else understands us? Chicago Cubs fans? River Plate fans? England football fans?

    My Leaf fan friends have begun to pity me!

  95. ashley says:

    Woodguy:
    ashley,

    I bet on bet365 btw.

    I find it consistently good for hockey line.

    Will watch Pinnacle and see if its better.

    Would have loved to get +192 tonight.

    Would have made me and Steve1231242313 feel bettter.

    I should add that I don’t know anything about the various available books. I just clicked on the first one google produced.

    Now that I’ve done the analysis (fun), I feel like I should sign up for an account and put some money on the effort.

  96. theres oil in virginia says:

    UNRELATED: My non-hockey-fan buddy clued me in to this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEBoOr12BrI&hd=1

    Pretty cool video of ref with helmet camera and mic for an AHL game.

  97. jp says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    I completely get his POV, which is why for a player, manager, scout, coach, etc. — whose livelihood and sense of worth depends a lot on their performance and drive etc. — “quitting” would rightly lead to the upbraiding Eakins delivers.

    And, I can kind of get the whole projection thing onto the fans… but here’s the thing. You get away with that if you say it right after the game, in the heat of the moment.

    He thought and probably talked about that jersey for 2+ days. This was a considered opinion.

    At no time did it occur to him or the people he talked to that the fans don’t owe him or the team any loyalty, work ethic, commitment, etc. Nothing. Their is no formal or informal arrangement here where fans are obliged to the team in this regard.

    Fans have an obligation to the general rules of society and decorum, which is why we condemn rioters, drunkards, etc. But Eakins didn’t complain that the fan was littering or something of that nature. He complained that the fan was a “quitter.”

    There is simply no way that statement makes any moral sense. There is no obligation which that fan has breached.

    I still agree with you for the most part. And as you say Eakins did have 2 days to think about what to say. But a lot of what I heard come out of his mouth was a jumbled mix of responding to the jersey throwing, and talking about what his players should be doing. He didn’t do a great job of it, but he was trying draw a contrast between what that fan did and what his team is NOT going to do (ie – give up/quit/throw in the towel). And further, it sounded to me more like an attempt at a rallying cry for the fans in general not to give up on the team like that guy did (that is, not a calling out of the fans in general). He certainly went too far in repeatedly calling the individual a quitter and essentially personally attacking his character, but I honestly didn’t hear much 6 rings in his words, or really anything that upset me. JMO.

  98. bookje says:

    Pop quiz.

    Who has disrespected the Oilers Jersey more?

    A. Oiler Management
    B. Oiler Fans
    C. Why did you bother reading past A?

  99. hunter1909 says:

    Eakins, MacT, and Lowe all know how to talk the talk. None of them know how to walk the walk, unless someone’s holding their hand.

    The oilers are finished. They’re unofficially the Ballard era Leafs. No one will want to sign here unless for huge overpayment.

    Katz’s “management structure” reads more like a 4th of July party on Fire Island than a winning pro sports franchise.

    This quitter looks ahead to many more hilarious losses from these Leakin’s Losers(oilers).

  100. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: At no time did it occur to him or the people he talked to that the fans don’t owe him or the team any loyalty, work ethic, commitment, etc. Nothing. Their is no formal or informal arrangement here where fans are obliged to the team in this regard.
    Fans have an obligation to the general rules of society and decorum, which is why we condemn rioters, drunkards, etc. But Eakins didn’t complain that the fan was littering or something of that nature. He complained that the fan was a “quitter.”
    There is simply no way that statement makes any moral sense. There is no obligation which that fan has breached.

    I agree totally with the above. This is a voluntary arrangement, which can be adjusted at any time. These guys are in dangerous waters. Fan discontent has been pretty muted considering how fucked up things have been. Looking forward to seeing the environment at the start of tonight’s game.

  101. hunter1909 says:

    theres oil in virginia: Fan discontent has been pretty muted considering how fucked up things have been. Looking forward to seeing the environment at the start of tonight’s game.

    I’d bet money that another jersey is tossed.

  102. Lowetide says:

    Some of you have asked me to post these when they go up, this edition has a few oilers reference points.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1894479-the-10-biggest-what-ifs-in-the-nhl-from-the-past-decade

  103. Factotum says:

    Woodguy: Just listened to the whole clip on Oilers now.

    Its not as damning and Eakins back peddles a bunch right after he says it, but its out there.

    Its not quite a firing offence (based on the whole clip) …

    You’re right.

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Here’s Eakins presser today:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=519210&catid=4

    chat about the jersey dominates the last half.

    I think he’s guilty of over-identifying the band with the fans, which, ironically is something fans do all the time.

    Even us ridiculously dedicated fans can easily separate “real life” from “fan life.” If I quit on my “fan life,” it says very little about my character in “real life.” It is certainly not a moral failing in the manner Eakins makes it out to be.

    A fan saying: “hey, this sucks, I’m going to spend my time and money elsewhere until this experience is more rewarding”

    Is miles from a real life person “quitting” or showing some character flaw. It’s actually a simple rational calculation, one that doesn’t belong in the realm of moral praise or blame.

    This disjunction is going to come back to haunt Eakins.

    Very well said, as usual.

  104. hunter1909 says:

    Bohologo: Seriously, who else understands us? Chicago Cubs fans? River Plate fans? England football fans?

    I used to be an England fan.

    Then I decided to follow the oilers, who at the time appeared to have more chance of winning anything.

    There are so many parallels(ridiculous over entitlement from players, management structure all but guaranteed to ensure institutional failure, a clown parade of coaching).

    They can trade players and tank until they’re ready to win The battle of Kursk, but as long as they’re run by Kevin Lowe/MacT/Howson/Bucky/Steve Smith + “chicken hawk” Eakins… this is simply an exercise in gross institutionalised futility.

    To put it another way, a shitshow.

  105. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Oilers have been outscored 14-1 in their last seven 3rd periods. Imagine what would have happened if they had mailed them in.

  106. Andy P says:

    I think if the jersey tossing continues then Eakins will be gone within weeks if not days. I also think that if they play piss poor tonight they may get more than one or two jerseys on the ice. We’ll see.

    Not sure if I want Eakins gone, it’s “hey ho lowe must go” followed by the assistants, let Eakins hand pick them and give them all 3 year contracts.

    If Eakins resigns then we may get MacT as coach or we may get Bucky. Because Oilers.

  107. denny33 says:

    Oilers have been outscored 14-1 in their last seven 3rd periods. Imagine what would have happened if they had mailed them in.
    ***********************************************************

    Perhaps this explains why Dallas is so touchy on the theme of quitters?

    Anyone else looking forward to Andrew Ference on the PP?

  108. Factotum says:

    Anyone want to take a guess: In the twenty regular seasons prior to this one, how many times have the Oilers won more games than they lost (including OT losses)?

    Answer: FOUR. (The last time was in 2003-04.)

    When was the last time the Oilers reached 100 points?
    When was the last time the Oilers won a regular-season division title?

    In both cases, the answer is 1986-87.

    Oiler fans know a thing or two about not quitting, if there’s ever a concern.

  109. Pajamah says:

    I feel like the fans at the blowouts feel at this point. We’re down 8-2 to Buffalo, and we’re cheering “we want 10″

    I genuinely want to see this team absolutely implode over the next 4-5 games still. I want to see the ice littered with Oiler jerseys, hats, empty beer cups, and the physical representation of fan vitriol. Only then will all Oiler fans actually get what they deserve. New management, some actual change, a sliver of light through the clouds.

    The coach, the GM, the president, the owner, cannot possibly be more out of touch with the fan base. I understand it is a business, but how can that be all that matters (as opposed to you know, running a good business , and winning). And if business and profits aren’t all that matters, then how can the executives be so out of touch to think that we are on our way to being successful? Sure pieces are in place, but not nearly enough, and not in the right spaces.

  110. Captain Smarmy says:

    Disrepecting the jersey is the funniest things I’ve heard from the Oilers since Six Ring’s “I know about winning you third rate plebs” speech.

    These guys are ridiculous.

  111. Pouzar says:

    The fascination with dissecting what people say in the media is beyond me. I just don’t get it. Gotta talk about something guess. Carry on. See y’all on the game thread if you didn’t throw yer jerseys in the garbage!

    Disclaimer: I don’t even own a jersey nor will I ever. I find it retarded for anyone over 25 to wear the names of young multi-millionaires on their back…but that’s just me….now deal with that pi$$ and vinegar!!!!!!!!!!!

    GO OILERS GO!!!!!!!!!!

  112. bookje says:

    The Eakins approach to coaching is very serious. He tends to treat it with an ‘on the trenches’ attitude. It works with some players, others probably find it corny.

  113. bookje says:

    Eakins comment is the ‘top story’ on the Journal webpage.

  114. Caramel Obvious says:

    Pajamah,

    Pajamah,
    Be careful what you wish for. If Mactavish answer Eakins get fired their replacements will be much worse.

    Anger over this jersey thing might be the dumbest thing oiler fan has ever done. And that is saying something. Oiler fan is pathetic and worthy of nothing but contempt.

  115. Andy P says:

    Put it this way: even if they suck we’ll likely be entertained!

  116. jp says:

    Andy P: I think the mess extends to other factors as well, including the lack of balance of the roster, and the mess that Tambo left behind. Obviously it’s the players who make the mistakes on the ice and play poorly on defence.

    But if we want to hold Eakins accountable for the mess that is the Oilers today, then Eakins has to be given the freedom to hire his own assistants. These assistants have produced poor team after poor team under coaches with good records, and what coaching record do they have? Bucky took an abysmal farm team up to .500. Todd Nelson took that farm team to perennial playoff contender.
    How about swap Bucky with Todd, see if Bucky can maintain Todd’s record with the team Todd succeeded with.

    Where a core issue exists, everything else you do outside of addressing the core issue remains just noise. Frustrating, but true.

    I guess I’m not holding Eakins fully accountable for the mess, at least not yet. And we should be fair that we don’t know whether Eakins was allowed to hire his own assistants or not. It’s at least possible, if not likely, that Eakins was happy to keep these guys to try to give the players some continuity. We simply don’t know.

    I’m not trying to claim they’re good assistant coaches, and I’m as amazed as everyone else that they’ve weathered this shit show and outlasted multiple head coaches. If you want to include these guys as just one part of a systemic 6 rings rot, I’m fine with that. But when you place 2 assistant coaches at the center of a failed 8 year rebuild, I think you’ve missed the core issues.

  117. theres oil in virginia says:

    For the record, I’m not in favor of firing Eakins nor do I want to see any more losses and certainly not blowouts. I’d like for Eakins to STFU about the fans and I’d like to see the boys put in an honest workday for a fucking change and get a win. Start looking like an NHL team with a future.

  118. bookje says:

    Brian Southerby spoke to the issue of assistant coaches and his comment wS that assistant coaches run practices and open gates, but little else. The assistants should get no credit for last years good power play or this years crappy one.

  119. unca miltie says:

    Got the book, behind the moves, signed by Ray Shero and Craig Patrick today for Christmas….LT’s idea…

    My son said we should send it to Mac. T.

    Good idea??

  120. Captain Smarmy says:

    bookje:
    Brian Southerby spoke to the issue of assistant coaches and his comment wS that assistant coaches run practices and open gates, but little else.The assistants should get no credit for last years good power play or this years crappy one.

    Well Smid did say Edmonton practices are slow and easy. Fire the assistants!

  121. Old School G says:

    Factotum:
    Anyone want to take a guess:In the twenty regular seasons prior to this one, how many times have the Oilers won more games than they lost (including OT losses)?

    Answer:FOUR.(The last time was in 2003-04.)

    When was the last time the Oilers reached 100 points?
    When was the last time the Oilers won a regular-season division title?

    In both cases, the answer is 1986-87.

    Oiler fans know a thing or two about not quitting, if there’s ever a concern.

    Excellent post!

  122. oliveoilers says:

    hunter1909: I used to be an England fan.

    Then I decided to follow the oilers, who at the time appeared to have more chance of winning anything.

    There are so many parallels(ridiculous over entitlement from players, management structure all but guaranteed to ensure institutional failure, a clown parade of coaching).

    They can trade players andtank until they’re ready to win The battle of Kursk, but as long as they’re run by Kevin Lowe/MacT/Howson/Bucky/Steve Smith + “chicken hawk” Eakins… this is simply an exercise in gross institutionalised futility.

    To put it another way, a shitshow.

    You USED to be an England fan? Follow Man U too, I bet. Or Barca, or Arsenal, whoever’s winning. Glory boy. I’m 100% born and raised English and emigrated to this wonderful country 6 yrs ago. But one thing an English football fan does is never give up on his team. That leads to spontaneous nosebleeds. I saw the jersey toss as a guy’s venting at this shit show. His prerogative. Could well happen back in Blighty, but my wife was more shocked at cell phones and coins being thrown at the players at the Leeds vs Burnley match last xmas. See, I have seen first hand many times the passion of a fan that’s had enough, and I have nothing but respect for that passion. It’s a shame that the Oilers management seem to think that even if there were no fans, the games would still be played. Oh, and for the ‘used to be an England fan’ comment: *cough* (to the tune of ‘Walking in a Winter Wonderland’) YOU ONLY SING WHEN YOUR WINNING!

  123. Old School G says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    For the record, I’m not in favor of firing Eakins nor do I want to see any more losses and certainly not blowouts.I’d like for Eakins to STFU about the fans and I’d like to see the boys put in an honest workday for a fucking change and get a win.Start looking like an NHL team with a future.

    Our team is just not good enough yet, there’s not a lot more to it than that reality. They can work as hard as they want but until proper balance, and offensive/defensive system familiarity happen they’re going to keep coming up short. To get mad about this while I respect the passion does not make much sense in my mind. Let’s just hold up for a bit, wait for MacT to add a few more pieces and then really let them have it if they cannot compete then, right now they just don’t have a chance most nights. I’m not deflated at all by this I’m just being real.

  124. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: Some of you have asked me to post these when they go up, this edition has a few oilers reference points.
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1894479-the-10-biggest-what-ifs-in-the-nhl-from-the-past-decade

    I agree with your #1 wholeheartedly, and before I read the list, I wouldn’t even have thought of it!

    I take it this from the last century only? So no Esposito-Hodge, Ratelle-Park, Neely, Gilmour, Hull trades?

  125. spoiler says:

    oliveoilers: You USED to be an England fan? Follow Man U too, I bet. Or Barca, or Arsenal, whoever’s winning. Glory boy. I’m 100% born and raised English and emigrated to this wonderful country 6 yrs ago. But one thing an English football fan does is never give up on his team. That leads to spontaneous nosebleeds. I saw the jersey toss as a guy’s venting at this shit show. His prerogative. Could well happen back in Blighty, but my wife was more shocked at cell phones and coins being thrown at the players at the Leeds vs Burnley match last xmas. See, I have seen first hand many times the passion of a fan that’s had enough, and I have nothing but respect for that passion. It’s a shame that the Oilers management seem to think that even if there were no fans, the games would still be played. Oh, and for the ‘used to be an England fan’ comment: *cough* (to the tune of ‘Walking in a Winter Wonderland’) YOU ONLY SING WHEN YOUR WINNING!

    I support the bloody Bolton Wanderers… I have had a chance to sing that particular ditty at Anfield though, so it hasn’t been all bad.

  126. theres oil in virginia says:

    Old School G: Our team is just not good enough yet, there’s not a lot more to it than that reality. They can work as hard as they want but until proper balance, and offensive/defensive system familiarity happen they’re going to keep coming up short. To get mad about this while I respect the passion does not make much sense in my mind. Let’s just hold up for a bit, wait for MacT to add a few more pieces and then really let them have it if they cannot compete then, right now they just don’t have a chance most nights. I’m not deflated at all by this I’m just being real.

    I’m not mad. I just think it’s a bad idea for the coach to chide the fans. Ferraro nailed that one with the tweet Rom shared above.

    Good team or bad, I still want to see an honest effort. I’m not concerned about playoffs or draft picks, I want to see improvement in the next game. I want to see them win some games by playing the right way. I don’t remember the last time I saw them grind out a win. I know they’re not going to bring it every night, but there is certainly enough talent on this team for them to be at least mediocre.

  127. oliveoilers says:

    spoiler: I support the bloody Bolton Wanderers…I have had a chance to sing that particular ditty at Anfield, though, so it hasn’t been all bad.

    Good on you! Bolton was never the same without Big Sam. I would give him a shot at the Oilers at the moment. People think Messier’s scary….. I’m a Pompey boy myself, but Ma and Pa moved north, so went to Leeds games with mates. Scared the crap out of my wife from Peace River first game she went to. “It’s not like a hockey game is it?” Best chant: Vs Man U to Beckham. DOES SHE TAKE IT, DOES SHE TAKE IT, DOES SHE TAKE IT UP THE A#$E? DOES SHE TAKE IT UP THE A#$E. Ref Posh Spice. Becks laughed his head off and nodded! Used to go to watch London Irish Rugby Team, guys in the stands with supersoakers full of beer, fill up on request!

  128. spoiler says:

    theres oil in virginia: I’m not mad. I just think it’s a bad idea for the coach to chide the fans. Ferraro nailed that one with the tweet Rom shared above.
    Good team or bad, I still want to see an honest effort. I’m not concerned about playoffs or draft picks, I want to see improvement in the next game. I want to see them win some games by playing the right way. I don’t remember the last time I saw them grind out a win. I know they’re not going to bring it every night, but there is certainly enough talent on this team for them to be at least mediocre.

    I agree with this. I would like to see a well-executed game plan for a change. An emotionally and mentally strong game… not just physically strong.

  129. hunter1909 says:

    oliveoilers: You USED to be an England fan?Follow Man U too, I bet.Or Barca, or Arsenal, whoever’s winning.Glory boy.I’m 100% born and raised English and emigrated to this wonderful country 6 yrs ago.But one thing an English football fan does is never give up on his team.That leads to spontaneous nosebleeds.I saw the jersey toss as a guy’s venting at this shit show.His prerogative.Could well happen back in Blighty, but my wife was more shocked at cell phones and coins being thrown at the players at the Leeds vs Burnley match last xmas.See, I have seen first hand many times the passion of a fan that’s had enough, and I have nothing but respect for that passion.It’s a shame that the Oilers management seem to think that even if there were no fans, the games would still be played.Oh, and for the ‘used to be an England fan’ comment:*cough*(to the tune of ‘Walking in a Winter Wonderland’) YOU ONLY SING WHEN YOUR WINNING!

    Follow whoever’s winning? I don’t remember 1966, so have zero memory of England winning anything, but thanks for the home brewed go just the same.

    England football and the Oilers are becoming indistinguishable. Both field(or ice) shit product hyped beyond anything beyond corporate bullshit. There’s more passion on any sports ground on a Saturday morning than Wembley Stadium, other than 1966.

  130. Lowetide says:

    I think that’s the first England 1966 reference on this blog.

  131. hunter1909 says:

    oliveoilers: I’m a Pompey boy myself

    Portsmouth is brilliant. One of the coolest places in England, but scary as fuck. Seriously scary, lol. You half expect to meet up with the press gang.

    Re my alleged England fandom: I’m not 100% English anything save a few DNA strands from Sussex. It’s just an intellectual(or lack of) exercise for me.

  132. Andy P says:

    jp: I guess I’m not holding Eakins fully accountable for the mess, at least not yet. And we should be fair that we don’t know whether Eakins was allowed to hire his own assistants or not. It’s at least possible, if not likely, that Eakins was happy to keep these guys to try to give the players some continuity. We simply don’t know.I’m not trying to claim they’re good assistant coaches, and I’m as amazed as everyone else that they’ve weathered this shit show and outlasted multiple head coaches. If you want to include these guys as just one part of a systemic 6 rings rot, I’m fine with that. But when you place 2 assistant coaches at the center of a failed 8 year rebuild, I think you’ve missed the core issues.

    I’d be interested in your view of the core issues, for sure.

  133. RexLibris says:

    This line about how you aren’t allowed to talk against your fans is bull.

    Sometimes fans are idiots and a sports organization does not need to debase itself to the lowest common denominator or pander to reactionary elements out of some sort of adherence to the outdated mantra that “the customer is always right”. Because sometimes the customer is a raving lunatic.

    Eric Tillman had many faults as a manager, but one thing I respected him for was going on the sidelines during a playoff game against Winnipeg (I think, correct me if I’m wrong) and putting himself directly between the fans and the opposition bench because Riders fans were pelting them with snowballs.

    Effectively scolding his fan base for their bad behaviour and trying to set a higher standard.

    Ideally, the Oilers take that jersey, get the team to sign it and then auction it off for charity with a dollar for dollar match from every player. Take this thing and turn it around, show some solidarity and give that jersey some pride again.

  134. Lowetide says:

    spoiler: I agree with your #1 wholeheartedly, and before I read the list, I wouldn’t even have thought of it!

    I take it this from the last century only?So no Esposito-Hodge, Ratelle-Park, Neely, Gilmour, Hull trades?

    Yes. Espo trade would have been #1 probably from 1960+. That or the Leafs blowing the chance to get Orr AND Park.

  135. oliveoilers says:

    hunter1909: Follow whoever’s winning? I don’t remember 1966, so have zero memory of England winning anything, but thanks for the home brewed go just the same.

    England football and the Oilers are becoming indistinguishable. Both field(or ice) shit product hyped beyond anything beyond corporate bullshit. There’s more passion on any sports ground on a Saturday morning than Wembley Stadium, other than 1966.

    Haha, you miss the point. We don’t “used to support” teams just ‘cos we don’t like the results. Moan and gnash your teeth at the team, by all means, but once a fan always a fan. I love the decorum Oilers fans show. it’s very genteel but if this was England, someone would have been stabbed by now. Think Vancouver after the cup, but with passion. We actually have mounted police for EVERY game. Have you been to an England game? We will win the world cup, every England fan believes this all the way up to the inevitable semi-final defeat to Argentina or Germany. Do you believe the Oilers will win Lord Stanley? I do, all the way up until we miss the play-offs by a record amount of points. Difference between a fan and a follower.

  136. Andy P says:

    That guy on Sportsnet is wearing my Grandmother’s lipstick! To each their own I suppose.

  137. RexLibris says:

    I’ve got a friend going to tonight’s game. His win/loss % all-time is somewhere around 80%.

    If the Oilers lose at least I’ll get to let him hear about it all tomorrow.

  138. spoiler says:

    oliveoilers: I love the decorum Oilers fans show. it’s very genteel but if this was England, someone would have been stabbed by now. Think Vancouver after the cup, but with passion.

    We Canadians save that stuff for the stands of Jr. B hockey games.

  139. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Re Eakins versus the jersey tosser. WG summed it up well above. Pointless comments. Shouldn’t even have acknowledged it. His job is to talk about the play on the ice, not a crazy fan. I would have hoped an NHL coach would be smarter than this, but this is us.
    Dear Santa, I’d like a well played hockey game to watch tonight.

  140. oliveoilers says:

    hunter1909: Portsmouth is brilliant. One of the coolest places in England, but scary as fuck. Seriously scary, lol. You half expect to meet up with the press gang.

    Re my alleged England fandom: I’m not 100% English anything save a few DNA strands from Sussex. It’s just an intellectual(or lack of) exercise for me.

    And I forgot to add; have an awesome xmas and a happy new year!

  141. D says:

    I’m excited about the game tonight. I feel an Oiler win coming.

  142. oliveoilers says:

    Lowetide:
    I think that’s the first England 1966 reference on this blog.

    Just don’t get caught chanting “two world wars and one world cup” at the Germans. Bad form and they’re still a little touchy.

  143. Gret99zky says:

    He’s challenged them.

    He’s thrown Sharpies.

    He’s accused a fan of quitting.

    Eakins just needs to say,

    “I love to inspire youth with hope and education.”

  144. Lowetide says:

    Really nice pass by Hall there to Justin Schultz. Hall is beautiful.

  145. RexLibris says:

    oliveoilers: Just don’t get caught chanting “two world wars and one world cup” at the Germans.Bad form and they’re still a little touchy.

    Right.

    Don’t mention the war.

  146. leadfarmer says:

    oliveoilers,

    If you are making a soccer comparison the oilers are closer to Luxembourg than England. England at least makes it to the World Cup. The oilers, like Luxembourg look for positives in a 6-0 loss.

  147. RexLibris says:

    Just thinking, Eakins has grabbed hold of the spotlight away from his players.

    I hope they appreciate it after last night.

    Now they owe him a win to change the headlines again.

  148. hunter1909 says:

    When I want them to win they lose, when I want them to lose they win.

    Tonight I want them to lose.

  149. Andy P says:

    hunter1909,

    When I want them to win they lose. When I want them to lose they lose. When I don’t care they also lose. So now I’m just detached.

    Edit: Playing another Canadian Team, so at least we’re getting some calls!

  150. linkfromhyrule says:

    why is corey potter on the powerplay :/

  151. Gerta Rauss says:

    linkfromhyrule,

    I see what you did there…

  152. Lowetide says:

    Another potterplay here, lets get a goal!

  153. Gerta Rauss says:

    If we keep getting these power plays we don’t stand a chance

  154. SK Oiler Fan says:

    I know Nuge won that last draw, bur I’d like to see Gordon out for ozone PP face offs then get off for Nuge.
    The real deal Evander can fly. oh Ales you so bad

  155. D says:

    Hemsky of old.

  156. linkfromhyrule says:

    wow that was a beautiful pass from hemsky. The more I see him this season, the better I feel about the oilers resigning him

  157. Alsker says:

    Nice pass by Hemmer, nice finish by Ebs…9 minutes in and Yak has :31?

  158. jp says:

    Why did they start Dubnyk tonight??

  159. Lowetide says:

    Hemsky with a wonderful pass for Ebs goal, and then Bryz lets in a softie.

  160. spoiler says:

    Ultra long shift by the 4th… really Yak has to find a way to buy time for that line to get off… and be aware that is Gazdic he is rifling the puck to.

    Gazdic leads to hair loss.

  161. spoiler says:

    I love the name of that team in the Ebs celly advert.

  162. jp says:

    spoiler:
    Ultra long shift by the 4th… really Yak has to find a way to buy time for that line to get off… and be aware that is Gazdic he is rifling the puck to.

    Gazdic leads to hair loss.

    Yakupov had a great shift there. Though he does have to be aware of who he’s playing with.

  163. linkfromhyrule says:

    what a genius way to help yak find his way. Pair him up with Gazdic. Done.

  164. pboy says:

    Schultz needs to show as much hustle when he’s getting back into the play as he does when he’s trying to pinch.

  165. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Watching Kane and Hall take turns backing up defenders is entertainment

  166. Alsker says:

    Just as I mention no Yak he gets another -,thx Bryz(stop taking tips from DD)

  167. SK Oiler Fan says:

    If Smyth didn’t shoot the puck like he’s using a canoe paddle he’d have 3 already. Guy’s having a period

  168. flyfish1168 says:

    Magnus scores 3rd goal of season 2 pts last two games. Seems very happy in St. Louis. Good to see. Coming around after early season upper body injury

  169. pboy says:

    I love the spin the MSM is putting on “JerseyGate”. Six losses in a row, blowout on National TV, rough season…… It’s about the last 8 years, it’s about firing your GM and hiring your buddy, it’s about firing your coach over fucking Skype and only interviewing 1 guy to replace him. The MSM is the best. It’s the utter incompetence and the lack of accountability from the Oilers brass and no one will say the Emperor is butt ass naked.

  170. spoiler says:

    Nice plays all around there.

  171. Lowetide says:

    Gagner finishes off a nice play there with J Schultz and Eberle with the wonderful pass.

  172. jp says:

    WTF was that?? It feels like… well, earlier in 2013.

  173. SK Oiler Fan says:

    what a shift! 89s been working his ass off this period. good for him. 3 lines rolling!

  174. nelson88 says:

    pboy:
    Schultz needs to show as much hustle when he’s getting back into the play as he does when he’s trying to pinch.

    Ya. It was mildly annoying last year as no one wanted to question the golden boy. I can’t wait until there is a coach with some real accountability. MacT was part of the sales pitch so it will never happen but I would not shed a tear to see the younger schultz shipped out of town

  175. LMHF#1 says:

    So, they’re going to the net now? This should be interesting.

  176. LMHF#1 says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    If Smyth didn’t shoot the puck like he’s using a canoe paddle he’d have 3 already. Guy’s having a period

    That’s because he does use a canoe paddle. Swear that thing has got him 200 and cost him 300.

  177. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: Gagner finishes off a nice play there with J Schultz and Eberle with the wonderful pass.

    Joensuu probably deserves a little credit there too for rotating Jultz into the corner.

  178. Gerta Rauss says:

    Other than the whiff by Bryz they couldn’t have asked for a better opening period

  179. flyfish1168 says:

    Sad, 4th line again, minimal ice time, coming in cold, poor line mates and no time on PP = stalled development = I want to be traded = sell low = poor management of assets = Oilers

  180. SK Oiler Fan says:

    NHL really needs a second division. I can watch these games versus Win, cbj, cal, col, the whole eastern conf.
    St Lou, LA, chi, van etc. can play for that silly oversized lawn ornament on their own.

  181. Alsker says:

    flyfish1168:
    Sad, 4th line again, minimal ice time, coming in cold, poor line mates and no time on PP = stalled development = I want to be traded = sell low = poor management of assets = Oilers

    oh come on now, 2 shifts, 1:30 icetime…unfukcing believable , do I hear KHL?

  182. D says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    NHL really needs a second division. I can watch these games versus Win, cbj, cal, col, the whole eastern conf.
    St Lou, LA, chi, van etc. can play for that silly oversized lawn ornament on their own.

    ^This^

  183. RexLibris says:

    Paajarvi scores against the Flames.

    Still love that kid.

  184. hunter1909 says:

    Alsker: oh come on now, 2 shifts, 1:30 icetime…unfukcing believable , do I hear KHL?

    Eakins playing his Rob Schremp card on Yaks.

  185. RexLibris says:

    Is SN trying to pin that goal on Yakupov? (I’ve got it on mute, obviously).

    Belov steps up for the hit and Gazdic misplays the puck.

    But blame the Russian kid?

  186. spoiler says:

    The good and bad of Hall revealed in a split second.

  187. flyfish1168 says:

    RexLibris,

    Agree. good to see him coming back. played injured and miss some games with upper body injury. No getting some game time

  188. RexLibris says:

    I hate to say this, but good.

    They’ve been running our players left right and center.

    Run their goalie.

    Yakupov even gets the elbow up. Sorry to say, but I actually like that kind of fire.

  189. D says:

    Nice work by Yak.

  190. RexLibris says:

    Love that takedown.

  191. SK Oiler Fan says:

    Question: would Bettman go for a combined Oilers Jets team called the Winnmonton Oilerjets? Besides the goaltending I think there’s a hell of a team there. Noel can coach cause I like him better than eakins.

  192. RexLibris says:

    Sonofabiscuitbox

  193. spoiler says:

    Broken bat bunt fools the entire infield.

  194. Suntory Hanzo says:

    Absolutely Floating out there. Hemsky is a bad bad man.

  195. Andy P says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    Question: would Bettman go for a combined Oilers Jets team called the Winnmonton Oilerjets? Besides the goaltending I think there’s a hell of a team there. Noel can coach cause I like him better than eakins.

    Not at all, he’s already decided on the Alberta Oil Flames for when Katz leaves town.

  196. RexLibris says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    Question: would Bettman go for a combined Oilers Jets team called the Winnmonton Oilerjets? Besides the goaltending I think there’s a hell of a team there. Noel can coach cause I like him better than eakins.

    And we’d get all the top free-agents because of the fantastic weather.

  197. flyfish1168 says:

    RNH, Hall and Eberle 2 give aways each but that’s ok. Coach has your back

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