THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH

You don’t have to approach your job intelligently, but it helps. I love watching smart hockey players make smart plays, and the Oilers have a rookie standout in this area.

arcobello4

Arcobello is having a quality rookie season across the board. His point total is impressive, he’s been successful in every role asked of him, and has significantly outplayed the competition for center ice-time.

NHL ROOKIE SCORING

rookie scoring points

That’s some very nice company, and Oiler fans have to be excited about Arcobello’s season. The downside is size, but he has been winning more puck battles than most of the bigger Oilers all season using that intelligence (Arcobello can give bigger men a shove, grab the puck, and head north—he’s done it once in each of the last two games) and he’s a useful player at center. He’s over 50% in the faceoff circle and his advanced stats are quality.

CORSI ON, FORWARDS (btn)

arco corsi on

Three players currently in the black, Mr. Arco Polo is at the top of the list. Notice his playing time, I suspect he’s going to get more of it if he can continue to post these kinds of numbers, and it goes without saying there won’t be any healthy scratches if he delivers these kinds of numbers.

5X5/60 (btn)

5x5 btn

His rise through the minor league system was impressive, and his early season showing was a fun curio, but if he can sustain this kind of performance the Oilers will have found this generation’s Rich Peverley. We’ll need to see it over 150 games in the NHL, but Mark Arcobello has beaten the odds over and over again. It’s like I wrote earlier this season, can’t shoot, can’t skate, too small, he’s heard it for so long he’s not listening anymore. He is, however, making a lot of noise.

LONG TALL SLOVAKIAN

marincin ferguson2

The first time we heard the name Martin Marincin was from the draft floor in 2010, as the nhl.com announcer prattled on you could hear the Oilers table announce his name in the background.

  • Redline Report on his draft day: Tall Lanky D with a huge frame to fill out. Good skating ability for his size; Pivots well and shows good agility, though he lacks balance and acceleration. Skates with head up and looking for plays – smooth puck handler with good passing touch. Reads play quickly and makes good decisions. Doesn’t force things that aren’t there. However, once he makes his outlet pass, his arms sag to his side and he’s not interested in trying anything else offensively. Lacks an aggressive mindset and rarely ventures off the blue line at offensive end. Inconsistent defensively – positioning in own zone needs improvement. Tough to beat 1-on-1 off the rush because of his mobility and long reach, but can be beaten in tight by quick, shifty forwards. Counts mostly on the pokecheck and skating ability rather than using his big body, but is improving in the physical aspect and does a good job pinning men against the wall.
  • Dallas Eakins last night on Marincin in his NHL debut: ”I thought he was solid back there.. that’s all you want every night from your defencemen.”

Marincin played 15:25 and was +1 and he looked like a guy playing his first NHL game, but you can see what the scouts liked about him. He’s a tall drink of water, and his wingspan is massive. Marincin also skated very well to my eye, suspect he’ll get sent back today and we’ll see him at the deadline.

  • Jonathan WillisMartin Marincin, 5. Marincin looked more than a little nervous on first NHL shift, taking the puck and not quite skating to the red line before dumping it into the offensive zone; the result was an icing call and a shift where the fourth line had some trouble for a bit. The nerves continued into the second, where he got away with some awkward looking plays with the puck, but he seemed to find his form later on, recording one nice scoring chance toward the end of the middle frame and then not looking out of place in a brief power play stint. He took a minor penalty in the last few minutes of the third.

A very nice summary, as always.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

black

A rollicking show for sure this morning, 10 o’clock on TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Steve Lansky from Big Mouth Sports. The tragic fall of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
  • Corey Graham from TSN 1260′s Oil King broadcasts. Teddy Bear toss tonight and a very good game!
  • Rob Soria from Oil Drop. We’ll talk about last night’s game and the overhaul on the blue.
  • Andreas Morse from FC Edmonton. Eddies off-season additions continue.
  • Jungle Jim Hunter from Sportcology. Team Canada could win gold, silver and bronze in one of the Sochi Olympic events. Find out which one.

10-1260 via text, @Lowetide_ on the twitter. See you on the radio!

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

151 Responses to "THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH"

  1. bookje says:

    If you had told me that the Oilers would have a surprise point per game player like Perron and a rookie rise to the occasion like Arco, I would have predicted that they would be 4th in the west at this point.

  2. PhrankLee says:

    Well LT… Have we found our new Pisani? I am very impressed indeed with Marcobello. I saw him stand up to a much, much bigger man in in front of our net while 2 other Oilers turned away from the crease after the play. The Avs very large forward gave Dubnyk a chop on the catcher while he covered the puck. Arcobello went straight there to send a message. The rest of the Oilers seemed to be praying thanks to God they weren’t scored on. Mark also would not let himself be pushed around in front of the opposing net and stood his ground. These little shows between whistles are a tell. The inaction and apathy shown by almost the entire squad is stunning.

  3. regwald says:

    I hope you are right about Arco now that they sent Acton down. Maybe the healthy scratch was to give a couple last games for Acton before they made their decision.

    I believe Arco has earned a regular spot in the line up with his play to date.

  4. Spartacus says:

    Karen Black?

    That seems an odd choice after a big win, or anytime, really.

    What did Arco ever do to you, LT?

  5. Lowetide says:

    Spartacus:
    Karen Black?

    That seems an odd choice after a big win, or anytime, really.

    What did Arco ever do to you, LT?

    Love Karen Black, love that movie.

  6. gcw_rocks says:

    Why do I feel that the Oilers will find a way to f*&k up Acrobello’s value as an asset by not playing him enough, singling him out unfairly relative to other players, have him spend time in the press box? Oh, wait, we know why.

    Arco’s play opens up an opportunity. They need a top pairing defender and are going to have to spend an asset to get one. If that’s Gagner, so be it. Wonder if they could pry Roman Josi out of Nashville given how starved for offence Nashville is?

  7. LMHF#1 says:

    Not sure how anyone could watch that game beginning-to-end live and conclude that the main feature of Marincin’s game was nerves. He made absolutely excellent decisions with the puck for pretty well the entire game. He also brought a dimension that the Oilers don’t really have – a big man with a lot of reach who wins corner battles. It is undeveloped at this point, but even the raw version helped out in the defensive zone.

  8. russ99 says:

    Hopefully last night puts an end to the whole “use Marincin as a throw-in for X trade proposal”.

    He’s got a 2nd pairing ceiling, and he might even eclipse that if he ever fills out and becomes more physical. The Oilers just need to be patient with him, which isn’t a virtue they’ve had with many players lately.

    He’ll be 22 in February, so hopefully the filling out comes sooner rather than later.

  9. Racki says:

    One of the media types mentioned a couple weeks ago that Arco is another Glenncross situation. Meaning, he has To play x number of games this year or he becomes a group 6 UFA. Not sure if anyone heard that too or refuted that already, but that should be incorrect. Had he played a game in 3 different NHL seasons, yes, but he’s only played in two (it could be a concern next year) .

  10. David says:

    russ99:
    Hopefully last night puts an end to the whole “use Marincin as a throw-in for X trade proposal”.

    He’s got a 2nd pairing ceiling, and he might even eclipse that if he ever fills out and becomes more physical. The Oilers just need to be patient with him, which isn’t a virtue they’ve had with many players lately.

    He’ll be 22 in February, so hopefully the filling out comes sooner rather than later.

    Marincin’s been a favourite of mine since his draft. It will be a sad day if we trade him. At the moment I don’t think we can know who will be better: Marincin or Klefbom. An upgrade in Defense is what we need, and Marincin is close. I don’t think trading him makes much sense.

  11. justDOit says:

    Well that was a fine night for hockeystreams to go batshit crazy on me. Watching the highlights, it was nice to see they went for the two-point convert in the final minutes.

  12. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Notice his playing time, I suspect he’s going to get more of it if he can continue to post these kinds of numbers, and it goes without saying there won’t be any healthy scratches if he delivers these kinds of numbers.

    I’m at a loss to put this so definitively LT.

    Arco was true before he was scratched for 5 games. He’s true now.

    Eakins very recently called him out by name for an extended period. Sideburns.

    If Gordon was healthy, we should reconcile ourselves to the idea that Arco doesn’t play. Especially now that Lander may (by force of the GM perhaps) be in competition for center spots (Lander looked good on the PK, struggled with the boat anchors at 5×5).

    Arco is going to draw the short stick again. It’s just a matter of time.

  13. sliderule says:

    Don’t you think Willis was a little hard on Yakupov with a 3.

    I know he doesn’t like his game but really !

    The brutal turnover he speaks of the Colorado play guy called a nice move to net were he then lost puck.Yak turns back and then back checks hard ties up open man to net and the has an unfortunate bounce off his skate.I guess he would only be docked a point if he had floated back like some of oiler forwards and stayed out of play.

    Bruce and Staples have a fair commentary but Willis has his favorites as you can see from all the eights on a night when the oil had a Corsi of 37.8

  14. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Love Karen Black, love that movie.

    Oh, man, LT… sometimes… I just don’t know…

    The Family Plot is not a good movie. It’s down in the bottom of Hitchcock films (down there with Birds and Marnie… actually, with the exception of Frenzy, I pretty much loath all of his final 6 films).

    Of course, Bruce Dern is fantastic, however. He’s such an oddball. I’ve actually watched that movie a few more times that I should just to see his performance again. The way he uses that pipe as a prop, constantly fidgeting with it… priceless.

    As far as the TMWKTM goes, I prefer the 1934 version, mostly because it is tighter (the 1956 version, the James Stewart and Doris Day — Doris Day, what weird casting! — version is too extravagant and lush… distracts from the tension of the plot IMO) and has the incomparable Peter Lorre.

  15. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Also, her eyes… too close to one another… it is disconcerting.

  16. Numenius says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’m at a loss to put this so definitively LT.

    Arco was true before he was scratched for 5 games. He’s true now.

    Eakins very recently called him out by name for an extended period. Sideburns.

    I didn’t see the interview, but a commenter here said Eakins likely meant Gagner and said the wrong name.

    That would make more sense, at least.

  17. Numenius says:

    Paajarvi had a nice goal last night against the Isles.

  18. Caramel Obvious says:

    I didn’t watch the game. I came here to gloat a little to the doomsayers. Then I look at the shot stats and they don’t look so hot.

    Hall gets a hat trick but that trio was murdered at even strength. Does that fit with the eyes?

    So I’m going to level my first real criticism of Eakins, whom I believe is far and away the best coach the Oilers have had since I started watching regularly five years ago (damning with faint praise I know), and certainly better than anyone else they could hire. I don’t like these lines. Specifically, the Yakupov–Gagner–Hemsky line was far and away the best that both Gagner and Yakupov looked. Gagner and Yakupov are the guys that need help and it is sure looking like Hemsky has the most complete game of the forwards to be the guy doing the helping. That line needs to play together.

    So I’d like to go back to what was working before, and it was working. Make decisions on the basis of process not on results. Kid line–soft line–Arco/Perron line.

    That’s what I want to see.

    Oh, and Justin Schultz is still a waste of space on the powerplay. I listening to the first powerplay on the radio and I know what happened without watching it. Lackadaisacal player bordering on useless makes lackadaisacal play, can’t keep puck in the zone. J. Schultz should be nowhere near the powerplay. I don’t care that they scored immediately after. Process over results every single time. That is a guy who needs to spend some time in the pressbox until he learns how to concentrate and focus. Hate that guy.

  19. Numenius says:

    Marincin might skate well enough for the most part, but he does seem to lack foot speed to my eye.

  20. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    Oh, man, LT… sometimes… I just don’t know…

    The Family Plot is not a good movie. It’s down in the bottom of Hitchcock films (down there with Birds and Marnie… actually, with the exception of Frenzy, I pretty much loath all of his final 6 films).

    Of course, Bruce Dern is fantastic, however. He’s such an oddball. I’ve actually watched that movie a few more times that I should just to see his performance again. The way he uses that pipe as a prop, constantly fidgeting with it… priceless.

    As far as the TMWKTM goes, I prefer the 1934 version, mostly because it is tighter (the 1956 version, the James Stewart and Doris Day — Doris Day, what weird casting! — version is too extravagant and lush… distracts from the tension of the plot IMO) and has the incomparable Peter Lorre.

    Worst Hitchcock move? Hmmmm. I’d have to think about it but The Rope would be the obvious one for me. Family Plot is worth is just for the gas station scene.

    As for Karen Black, I’m going to return to this thread later today (tonight, probably) and list some wonderful movies she was in. (including Five Easy Pieces and the truly brilliant Nashville).

  21. Racki says:

    Guess my edit didn’t go through.. It was CapGeek that said Arco needs to play x # of games this year or he becomes group 6 UFA (instead of Rfa). If they said it, take it as bond. I can’t remember the exact number of games, but there isn’t a lot of wiggle room. My mistake above was it was professional seasons, not NHL seasons.

    Ideally, the Oilers Re up him for another year early.

  22. justDOit says:

    Numenius:
    Marincin might skate well enough for the most part, but he does seem to lack foot speed to my eye.

    Footspeed isn’t as much of an issue when two strides takes you from the front of the net to the corner. The kid looked better than I expected, in the little time that I actually got to see the game.

  23. PerryK says:

    Numenius:
    Marincin might skate well enough for the most part, but he does seem to lack foot speed to my eye.

    All large players seem to look that way! Look at the results instead of the stride. It is whether or not the player gets to where he is going at the time that he needs to get there.

    This kind of thinking cost us a big top 6 forward already (Penner). We have been searching for that very component ever since.

  24. justDOit says:

    Anyone else have major problems with hockeystreams last night? I installed some Alcatel software earlier in the day on my laptop, and I’m wondering if that has screwed something up.

  25. Numenius says:

    Caramel Obvious:

    Oh, and Justin Schultz is still a waste of space on the powerplay. I listening to the first powerplay on the radio and I know what happened without watching it.Lackadaisacal player bordering on useless makes lackadaisacal play, can’t keep puck in the zone.J. Schultz should be nowhere near the powerplay.I don’t care that they scored immediately after.Process over results every single time. That is a guy who needs to spend some time in the pressbox until he learns how to concentrate and focus.Hate that guy.

    You call it lacksadaisical, which it sometimes turns out to be, but when he’s on his game it manifests itself as more of a calm confidence, a nice trait in a defenseman.

    Also worth noting is that he had taken a puck to the foot in an earlier PP and I think that was affecting his play.

  26. icecastles says:

    bookje:
    If you had told me that the Oilers would have a surprise point per game player like Perron and a rookie rise to the occasion like Arco, I would have predicted that they would be 4th in the west at this point.

    Hell, they’re fourth in the entire league this morning!

    …damnit, someone turned my monitor upside down again. Never mind.

  27. Numenius says:

    justDOit:
    Anyone else have major problems with hockeystreams last night? I installed some Alcatel software earlier in the day on my laptop, and I’m wondering if that has screwed something up.

    Hockeystreams was fine for me. Better than usual, in fact.

  28. Numenius says:

    PerryK: All large players seem to look that way!Look at the results instead of the stride.It is whether or not the player gets to where he is going at the time that he needs to get there.

    This kind of thinking cost us a big top 6 forward already (Penner).We have been searching for what we had ever since.

    I’m pretty sure I was looking at the results. For example, I remember seeing a forward beating Marincin on the outside and that someone else had to come in to help.

  29. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Numenius: I didn’t see the interview, but a commenter here said Eakins likely meant Gagner and said the wrong name.

    That would make more sense, at least.

    Oh, no. There was no doubt. Eakins was responding to Jack Michaels who asked about Arco winning puck battles from bigger guys… the set up was pure puff… Eakins went another way and mentioned Arco by name several times. watch for yourself:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=501403&catid=4

  30. Caramel Obvious says:

    Just this morning I read a letter from Raymond Chandler (a literary artist and awesome) to Alfred Hitchcock (who makes movies–i.e is an imitator and hence not awesome) regarding the script to Strangers on a Train. In any case Rom and Lowe may find it interesting (though it’s not that great a letter, nothing like Alec Guiness talking about Star Wars)

    http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/01/flabby-mass-of-cliches.html

    Numenius: You call it lacksadaisical, which it sometimes turns out to be, but when he’s on his game it manifests itself as more of a calm confidence, a nice trait in a defenseman.

    Also worth noting is that he had taken a puck to the foot in an earlier PP and I think that was affecting his play.

    Well since Justin Schultz always plays this way I find it hard to attribute it to a puck in the foot from the future. In any case I have no interest in being rational about him. I hate him. If he was my teammate we would fight every single day. He’s not calm he’s lackadaisacal. He is everything bad said about Gilbert and Hemsky (which wasn’t true) rolled together into a single stunning package.

    What is strange is he wasn’t always this way. I remember when the lockout ended I thought that he might be the Oilers’ best player. I love the style, I love the jumping into the play, I love the aggressive intercepts in the neutral zone. Most of that is gone, replaced by a player who is overly casual with the puck without any compensating life. He isn’t calm, he’s zombie like.

  31. Numenius says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Oh, no. There was no doubt. Eakins was responding to Jack Michaels who asked about Arco winning puck battles from bigger guys… the set up was pure puff… Eakins went another way and mentioned Arco by name several times. watch for yourself:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=501403&catid=4

    Oh yeah, I see. There’s no doubt that’s Arco. Great to see that he was able to take the criticism well (though I’m still not sure how deserved it was) and respond with a strong game against Colorado.

  32. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Worst Hitchcock move? Hmmmm. I’d have to think about it but The Rope would be the obvious one for me. Family Plot is worth is just for the gas station scene.

    As for Karen Black, I’m going to return to this thread later today (tonight, probably) and list some wonderful movies she was in. (including Five Easy Pieces and the truly brilliant Nashville).

    Ha! That’s hilarious. I really like Rope. Farley Granger is a favorite of mine though and I could see why many would find his deer in the headlights whininess grating.

    The thing about Rope is that Hitchcock gives the best example there of how you could film a play and make it cinematic, while still basically being a play — single location, nearly all the shots are “objective”, i.e., shot from the perspective of a neutral observer (like the audience in a play) rather than “subjective”, i.e., shot from the perspective of a character inhabiting the environment (typical of all films really).

    And, yet the camera moves in long pans directing the viewer to certain persons, conversations, objects. That creates a weird blend of objective/subjective or theatrical/cinematic if you will.

    Contrast it was one particularly deplorable scene in Torn Curtain*. Andrews (another weird bit of casting) and Newman… you can see a brief bit of it at 1:50 of this trailer:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2TlfRvNh8M

    The whole scene is shot this way, objective, like a play. The two characters are in a room, talking. A single, motionless camera angle reflecting an objective view of the action/conversation. This is an important part of the plot and crucial to the fate of both these characters… but on screen the scene is completely lifeless… because it’s a damn movie, but it is shot like a play without a hint of cinematic influence.

    If he shot the same scene (with the lifeless chemsitry between Newman and Andrews) subjectively… i.e., switching from one characters’ POV to another, he would have dramatically changed the tone of the film.

    What I’m trying to say — belatedly — is that in Rope, Hitch finds a way to film objectively without sacrificing the tension cinema provides because you can alter and edit shots… his camera moves… That makes it interesting.

  33. Racki says:

    Speaking of Arco being “strong”, anyone else notice McGinn hack at Dubnyk after a save? Justin Schultz just stood there.. Arco skated in from wherever he was, gave up 50 lbs and 5″,and still gave McGinn a shove. At least let him know he can’t do that.

  34. Caramel Obvious says:

    I just watched Eakins’ postgame. I really don’t understand how anyone could listen to him talk about the team and think he was the wrong coach. Every note is right.

    The talk about arrogance, too tough, too soft, too inexperienced, is all so obviously projection.

    So while I don’t agree with the Arcobello criticism, or him sitting for Acton, or J. Schultz playing on the powerplay let’s remember that it is Acton who is in the minors right now, and that this team is playing the best hockey it has played in five years (and it isn’t particularly close) with a D roster that is, in so many ways, laughable (50% of them played in the minors this year and the other 3 are blah).

    Last year’s team was horrible. You may not have noticed because of the flirtation with the playoff spot but they were horrible. In the same way that the Leafs are horrible right now. The Leafs think they played a good game last night because they won. They didn’t. They gave up 50 shots. That’s bad. The Leafs are bad now, the Oilers were terrible last year. Those are facts.

    Carlyle is a terrible coach. Eakins is a good coach. Things are looking up. Now we need some actual defensemen for Christmas.

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The one thing about Torn Curtain, though… is Wolfgang Kieling as Hermann Gromek is killer. I swear that movie is worth watching repeatedly if only for that performance.

    Germans in creepy, hyper violent investigative roles… man, what a legacy. Some others:

    Laurence Olivier as Dr. Christian Szell in Marathon Man (1976, Schlesinger)
    Anatoli Solonitsyn as Portnov in The Ascent (1977, Shepitko)
    Christoph Waltz as SD Standartenführer Hans Landa in Inglorious Basterds (2009, Tarantino)

    I’m sure there are more.

  36. G Money says:

    Caramel Obvious: I didn’t watch the game. I came here to gloat a little to the doomsayers. Then I look at the shot stats and they don’t look so hot.
    Hall gets a hat trick but that trio was murdered at even strength. Does that fit with the eyes?

    Colonel (trying to be old school here), I find myself gravitating ever more to Parkatti’s Expected Goals version of shot metrics, which weights Fenwick events by shot type and distance. Last night’s game was a blowout by Corsi, but almost dead even by EG (2.2 to 2.3). In other words, when it came to truly dangerous plays, the game was about even, and the difference was better sharpshooting and better goaltending for the Oilers. Nice to have that in our favour for a change.

    The difference between Corsi and EG has been stark a few times this season, starting with the Ott game (also an Oil win), where the Corsi was horrible but was clearly a result of a deliberate “you have a shitty goalie so we’re going to shoot from everywhere” strategy. The shot tracker showed 10+ shots in the Ott game from just inside the blueline, which was the difference in Corsi in that game.

    Last night’s game shows something conceptually similar, with a visually qualitatively clear difference in the shot position, with a considerably greater percentage of Col shots from a distance or from steep angles.

  37. russ99 says:

    Racki,

    Schultz isn’t a physical defenseman, which is why they should pair him with one.

    I can’t believe the nitpicking on this guy 22 games into his second year. He’s a puck mover, and at this point in his development, everything else is bonus. Are you guys expecting him to look like Duncan Keith after 70 NHL games and minimal time in the AHL?

    He is improving defensively, even the coach sees that:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/Justin+Schultz+still+growing+into+Edmonton+Oilers+blue+line+role/9220845/story.html

    To me, his play on the powerplay is all about being unselfish. Sure he could take the shot all the time, but his overall vision to where the puck needs to go to set up the best shot is uncanny. Also, I never see him lose the puck over the blueline, which was a problem with our previous power play quarterbacks.

    The issue here really isn’t Schultz, he’s where he should be at this stage of his development for the type of player he is. It’s the lack of a veteran mentor, poor coaching and mishandling by the organization.

  38. CrazyCoach says:

    I did manage to watch a bit of the game last night and to my eye, Marincin is still the same player he was two years ago, but the overall improvement in his game in all areas shows quite a bit. He does make questionable decisions from time to time with the puck and his foot speed is not where it should be, but he does play with an edge (mean streak) and makes a good outlet pass. He will never be Shea Weber, but he could be a solid 3 or 4 D.

    If I had to make a choice between him and Klefbom, I’d go with Marincin. Two years ago I would have said differently, but the last two years have changed things.

  39. Caramel Obvious says:

    G Money,

    I like Parkatti’s work. Interestingly, while the team did better the Gagner–Hall–Yakupov trio still got murdered as did the fourth line, the Hopkins group was close to break even, and only Arcobello, Hemsky and Smyth look good.

    The D stats are interesting, Marincin, Potter and Larsen all come out looking great, while the Shultzes were dreadful. Though in this case quality of competition does matter some as Eakins was able to mostly hide Marincin and Potter from the top two lines and Colorado is very much a two line team. [note that I never said quality of competition didn't matter, I said that the difference wasn't great over the course of a season especially for the top two pairings of defensemen]. So Larsen had a very good game which pleases me since I’ve always liked him.

    The season totals are also interesting.

    Arcobello leads the forwards with expected goal percentage of 55%.
    Potter leads the D, though in much fewer games obviously, with 58%

    In expected goals most guys look pretty decent except for the fourth line. The D are generally lower than the forwards because the D have to play with the fourth line but the other forwards don’t.

    What really stands out though is Taylor Hall’s 46%. The only other regular forward below 50% is Boyd Gordon which can be explained by his extreme zone starts.

    If these numbers work (and the logic behind them is solid and the correlations so far have stood up) then the Oilers are actually a decent team at even strength that has been hobbled by goaltending and poor finishing.

  40. Andy P says:

    CrazyCoach:
    I did manage to watch a bit of the game last night and to my eye, Marincin is still the same player he was two years ago, but the overall improvement in his game in all areas shows quite a bit.He does make questionable decisions from time to time with the puck and his foot speed is not where it should be, but he does play with an edge (mean streak) and makes a good outlet pass.He will never be Shea Weber, but he could be a solid 3 or 4 D.

    If I had to make a choice between him and Klefbom, I’d go with Marincin. Two years ago I would have said differently, but the last two years have changed things.

    Would that be because Klefbom’s injuries have changed him as a player, or that he just hasn’t turned out as expected?

  41. Ribs says:

    Kudos to the refs for not giving young Marty a penalty until late into the third period last night. The poor kid spent most of ice time draped over Av’s players along the boards. Interesting player, though. It looked like he handled the puck well enough and could skate. You have to figure he will fill out quite a bit in the next couple of years. You don’t see many guys who don’t. It’s the waiting for that to happen that will be the struggle.

    Arcobello! I’m still waiting for a piano sized shoe to drop on him but it’s so hard not to like this guy. I think he won me over last night when he started crosschecking a guy in the crease well after the play was finished. One of our mighty defencemen stood in awe at what he was witnessing * I see Racki saw the same incident * . I’ve got some time for a guy who shows he gives a damn at both ends of the rink.

    Gotta give Smytty his due for last night as well. Some savvy passing going on there. I’m not sure those were set up plays where he goes along the wall and looks for darting linemates but if I’m Eakins, I’m making it one. If being a grizzled veteran earns you one thing in this league, it’s a bit of extra time along the boards with the puck.

    Speaking of a gritty veteran move that earns you space, I liked Hemsky getting his elbow/arms up to protect himself on his penalty. Ol’ Smytty may have been preaching that classic on the bench.

    Hall looking engaged in the play the last few games. Nice to see.

    Yakupov? I’m trying to think of a team who plays his game and there just aren’t many these days. The quick strike offense doesn’t seem to usually work if only one player is on board, and I’m not sure he’s good enough yet to start funneling the puck to him like the Caps do to Ovechkin or Kovalchuk’s teams were doing. He’s an odd duck and I think he’s going to need to change his game to really thrive in this league. I think he should be modelling himself after a guy like Marion Hossa. Learn to expend his energy in smarter ways. In any case, I hope they find a way to make it work, and soon.

  42. PaperKurtRussell says:

    I ended up watching the Colorado broadcast last night. It was crazy reverse homerism!! They were just gushing about the Oilers all night. In particular, the first overalls, Hemsky, Gagner and Perron. Like, they were just going on and on… Oh that Eberle is soooo fasssttt…. Hemsky has quite possibly the best hands in the league… Also, during the Gazdic fight, they replayed it twice and raved about the big right hand!! They didn’t even defend their guy, they just talked about how much Gazdic pummelled him. Those guys were so nice, I wish I could have bought them each a coffee this morning… :-)

  43. G Money says:

    Caramel Obvious: What really stands out though is Taylor Hall’s 46%. The only other regular forward below 50% is Boyd Gordon which can be explained by his extreme zone starts.

    I think as goes Taylor Hall, so go the Oilers. And I think it is fair to say that Taylor Hall has been a shadow of himself so far this season, and it is showing in his Corsi and EG.

    I am hoping that last night’s breakthrough (hall-trick and assist) means the “real” Taylor Hall is back – in which case the last half of this season is going to be a whole hell of a lot more fun to watch than the first half.

    Caramel Obvious: If these numbers work (and the logic behind them is solid and the correlations so far have stood up) then the Oilers are actually a decent team at even strength that has been hobbled by goaltending and poor finishing.

    I think that’s fair. A lot of folks have been looking past the boxcars and seeing a variety of positives this year, but bad goaltending can trump everything. I think the other confounding issue is that when this team has been bad, it has been truly catastrophically horrifically bad.

    Woodguy and I had a quick discussion about that some number of games ago, where we noted that the median Corsi for the Oilers this year has been noticeably higher than the mean Corsi. (Not sure if that’s still true, I would guess it is).

  44. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Caramel Obvious: Just this morning I read a letter from Raymond Chandler (a literary artist and awesome) to Alfred Hitchcock (who makes movies–i.e is an imitator and hence not awesome) regarding the script to Strangers on a Train. In any case Rom and Lowe may find it interesting (though it’s not that great a letter, nothing like Alec Guiness talking about Star Wars)

    Thanks for that.

    Chandler was a great pulp writer but a real booze hound and a horrible collaborator. He had a lot of troubles with Wilder working on Double Indemnity too.

    What’s really funny about him dissing Strangers for being a “flabby mass of clichés” is that The Big Sleep is basically that. In fact, it is so damn convoluted that if you watch it more than once and try to keep track of who’s dead and who’s alive it is near impossible. A famous story about the film:

    While working on the script, writers William Faulkner and Leigh Brackett couldn’t figure out from the novel who murdered a particular character. So they phoned Raymond Chandler, who angrily told them the answer was right there in the book. They shrugged and returned to their work. Chandler soon phoned to say that he looked at the book himself and couldn’t figure out who killed the character, so he left it up to them to decide. In the original cut, shown to the armed services, this question is resolved; in the film as released, it isn’t.

    Speaking of drunken writers on film… “Faulkner” in Barton Fink and “Heminway” in The Long Goodbye

  45. godot10 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    Of course, Bruce Dern is fantastic, however. He’s such an oddball. I’ve actually watched that movie a few more times that I should just to see his performance again. The way he uses that pipe as a prop, constantly fidgeting with it… priceless.

    Bruce Dern is actually back. He is a potential best actor Oscar nominee this year for Nebraska, an Alexander Payne movie (The Descendents, Sideways) co-starring Will Forte (a.k.a. MacGruber).

  46. CrazyCoach says:

    Andy P: Would that be because Klefbom’s injuries have changed him as a player, or that he just hasn’t turned out as expected?

    The injuries frighten me more than anything. For a guy to miss as much hockey as he has the last few seasons is a concern. I also have a bit of a bias with Marincin as I watched him play here for a season and I’m hoping the best for him.

    Ideally, it would be nice if they were both to stay. I’d like that to as my Swedish roots have me cheering for Klefbom as well.

  47. Derek says:

    justDOit:
    Anyone else have major problems with hockeystreams last night? I installed some Alcatel software earlier in the day on my laptop, and I’m wondering if that has screwed something up.

    Mine was terrible on West servers from the start of the second period on, I switched to the central server and it was ok. They seem to have a lot of complaints from users with Shaw.

    Marcobello is a fantastic hockey player with great underlying numbers, my hope is that as he establishes himself as an NHL regular he makes Gagner+ expendable for help on the back end. The Josi trade GCW proposes would be fantastic value.

    I believe there was some talk of Arcobello being this years Cory Conacher.

    Arcobello this season: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=EDM&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

    Leads the team in Corsi ON, and Corsi REL through 25 games played. The team is shooting 8.13% with him on the ice and his PDO is 988 so its not as if he’s piling up points based on luck. His own shooting % is 5.6.

    Conacher last season: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&s=30&f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=OTT&f7=10-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#
    14/15 in Corsi ON, 8/15 Corsi REL, Team shooting % 10.23, personal shooting %17.0 in 35 with TBL and 14.3 in 12 with OTT.

    TLDR; Marcobello is a good hockey player with some poor luck this season(based on 25 GP), Conacher is a middling hockey player who had some fantastic luck last season.

  48. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    My dad just sent me this in an email:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/taylor-hall-scores-hat-trick-as-oilers-demolish-avs/article15799932/

    Must have been a fun night, where’s Yackamofff, is he still playing?

    so close!

  49. godot10 says:

    Caramel Obvious:

    Oh, and Justin Schultz is still a waste of space on the powerplay. I listening to the first powerplay on the radio and I know what happened without watching it.Lackadaisacal player bordering on useless makes lackadaisacal play, can’t keep puck in the zone.J. Schultz should be nowhere near the powerplay.I don’t care that they scored immediately after.Process over results every single time. That is a guy who needs to spend some time in the pressbox until he learns how to concentrate and focus.Hate that guy.

    Why don’t you check the Oilers record with Justin Schultz in the lineup with the Oilers record with Justin Schultz out of the lineup? Why don’t you also check the Oilers shot metrics with and without?

  50. godot10 says:

    Numenius:
    Marincin might skate well enough for the most part, but he does seem to lack foot speed to my eye.

    Big guy syndrome to look slow. It is an optical illusion, like with Mahovlich and Penner.

  51. Lloyd B. says:

    Why would they send Marincin down after one game? I thought that Eakins MO was to ice the same line up that wins. Give the kid a bit longer look to see where he is at. One and done doesn’t show you anything.

  52. denny33 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    So while I don’t agree with the Arcobello criticism,
    *************************************************************
    The play and the numbers for Arco are becoming alarming….appreciate your concern with the coach’s ‘criticism’ of Arco …meanwhile the league ( and fans and media ) were wondering about concussion protocol tests for the coach – regarding the decision to sit Arco.

    ******************************************************************
    Eakins is a good coach.

    What is your evidence?

    The Edmonton Oilers are 1 point ahead of the Florida Panthers. Who at this point are not even trying to win….

    ************************************************************************
    Even the media are now calling for Sam Gagner to not play Centre……

  53. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    godot10: Bruce Dern is actually back.He is a potential best actor Oscar nominee this year for Nebraska, an Alexander Payne movie (The Descendents, Sideways) co-starring Will Forte (a.k.a. MacGruber).

    Thanks for the tip. I’ll have to check it out.

    Me and the wife haven’t seen a film in the theatres… in ages… now.

  54. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    So, do we know if Belov was actually sent to OKC yet?

    There was some talk that it might be a paper transaction (though as JW pointed out, that wasn’t necessary because they could have retroactively IRed Gordon).

    If so, does he play tonight in OKC?

  55. godot10 says:

    G Money:
    Woodguy and I had a quick discussion about that some number of games ago, where we noted that the median Corsi for the Oilers this year has been noticeably higher than the mean Corsi. (Not sure if that’s still true, I would guess it is).

    Median Corsi higher than mean Corsi is a reflection of the Oilers heavy early eastern conference schedule.

  56. delooper says:

    I’m in Warsaw Poland today. LT’s website is giving me Polish adverts for high-heel shoes.

  57. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lake Erie just signed Brett Clark to a PTO.

    Interesting player. He’ll probably play the back 3rd of the season in the NHL again.

  58. Hammers says:

    So glad to see so many positive comments on both Arco & Marincin . For me Potter should go back down before Martin . Lander proved to be an upgrade on Acton with way more hockey sense . As for Arco , his line seemed to dominate while on the ice so hopefully Eakins leaves Smyth & Hemsky with him even when Gordon comes back . McT needs to look for answers and I would bet he has had some conversations with his coach .The inconsistency of this team makes you want to shout out .Last thing is Eakins needs to get Justin of that 1st PP group . Not saying I have the answer but I counted at least 6 mistakes by Schultz while on the PP .

  59. Caramel Obvious says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    That’s funny. He must have been really drunk because if I recall correctly who killed the Irish bootlegger is stated right out at the end.

    The larger point, though, is that what makes Chandler great is that his books aren’t whodunits. In fact who did it is largely irrelevant.

    Raymond Chandler was a great writer. His portrayal of Marlowe as a man of honour in a corrupt world stands up across time. For instance this is as good a portrait of honour in the wake of nihilism as any I have ever read.

    “In everything that can be called art there is a quality of redemption. It may be pure tragedy, if it is high tragedy, and it may be pity and irony, and it may be the raucous laughter of the strong man. But down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid.

    The detective in this kind of story must be such a man. He is the hero; he is everything. He must be a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor — by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world. I do not care much about his private life; he is neither a eunuch nor a satyr; I think he might seduce a duchess and I am quite sure he would not spoil a virgin; if he is a man of honor in one thing, he is that in all things.

    He is a relatively poor man, or he would not be a detective at all. He is a common man or he could not go among common people. He has a sense of character, or he would not know his job. He will take no man’s money dishonestly and no man’s insolence without due and dispassionate revenge. He is a lonely man and his pride is that you will treat him as a proud man or be very sorry you ever saw him. He talks as the man of his age talks — that is, with rude wit, a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and a contempt for pettiness.

    The story is the man’s adventure in search of a hidden truth, and it would be no adventure if it did not happen to a man fit for adventure. He has a range of awareness that startles you, but it belongs to him by right, because it belongs to the world he lives in. If there were enough like him, the world would be a very safe place to live in, without becoming too dull to be worth living in. ”

    And his ability to write things that have the rhythm of cliche without being cliche. For instance:

    “I was as hollow and empty as the spaces between stars.”

    It sounds like a cliche and yet it resonates.

  60. Henry says:

    PaperKurtRussell:
    I ended up watching the Colorado broadcast last night.It was crazy reverse homerism!!They were just gushing about the Oilers all night.In particular, the first overalls, Hemsky, Gagner and Perron.Like, they were just going on and on… Oh that Eberle is soooo fasssttt…. Hemsky has quite possibly the best hands in the league… Also, during the Gazdic fight, they replayed it twice and raved about the big right hand!!They didn’t even defend their guy, they just talked about how much Gazdic pummelled him.Those guys were so nice, I wish I could have bought them each a coffee this morning…

    I watched it too. Peter McNabb has always liked the Oilers for some reason. Would be fun to see him and John Garrett do a broadcast together.

    If you saw McNabb go over the boards with Terry O’Reilly to assault the crowd in 1979, you’d put your money on Garrett being less of a DB.

  61. FastOil says:

    delooper:
    I’m in Warsaw Poland today.LT’s website is giving me Polish adverts for high-heel shoes.

    Delooper are you a spy?

  62. Caramel Obvious says:

    godot10: Why don’t you check the Oilers record with Justin Schultz in the lineup with the Oilers record with Justin Schultz out of the lineup?Why don’t you also check the Oilers shot metrics with and without?

    I said that I wasn’t interested in being rational about this. I have also noted to myself that they have played better since he was back. I still hate him and his lackadaisacal ways. He’s a zombie and I hate him in the wayonly a spurned lover can hate.

  63. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Of course, Chandler isn’t a plot guy, he’s a wordsmith and has great insight into character. And, The Big Sleep is a fantastic flic even if it is convoluted. Just as Strangers on a Train is fantastic even if it may be full of cliches… of course, Chandler didn’t seem to anticipate Hitch’s inspired casting and filming in his letter on the script.

  64. Jonathan Willis says:

    sliderule,

    1. I certainly do have my favourites, but I don’t do an especially good job of giving them favourable marks. On a personal level, Yakupov is (and always has been) one of my favourite players on the team; there’s only one guy on the roster I like watching more.

    2. We’ve moved to a more goals-based marking system this year, so in an 8-2 win you’re going to see lots of high marks; it’s just par for the course.

  65. Jonathan Willis says:

    LMHF#1:
    Not sure how anyone could watch that game beginning-to-end live and conclude that the main feature of Marincin’s game was nerves. He made absolutely excellent decisions with the puck for pretty well the entire game. He also brought a dimension that the Oilers don’t really have – a big man with a lot of reach who wins corner battles. It is undeveloped at this point, but even the raw version helped out in the defensive zone.

    I’m actually not sure how anyone watching Marincin last night could come away with the impression he wasn’t nervous. It certainly showed up in his puck movement. That first shift, where he made a boneheaded icing play under modest pressure was one good example, and another came early in the second period where he tried to make two passes with nobody near him, whiffing on the puck once and then putting it through a defender to an Oiler at the red line; he got away with the first play because of no pressure and got away with the second thanks to the incompetence of the Avs forward he passed through rather than through his own abilities.

    He certainly calmed down in the third period and looked much better for it, but his play with the puck through the first half of the game was exactly the opposite of “absolutely excellent.”

  66. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    If you are compelled by Chandler’s “heroes” you may want to have a look at Anthony Mann’s westerns:

    http://blogs.amctv.com/movie-blog/2010/01/noir-on-the-ran/

    In this interview (which is included in Criterion’s DVD version of The Furies):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzJy9hGD2aQ

    Around the 9:00 mark he talks about his “man with a purpose” who ends in “exhaustion” rather than “triumph”

  67. LMHF#1 says:

    Jonathan Willis: I’m actually not sure how anyone watching Marincin last night could come away with the impression he wasn’t nervous. It certainly showed up in his puck movement. That first shift, where he made a boneheaded icing play under modest pressure was one good example, and another came early in the second period where he tried to make two passes with nobody near him, whiffing on the puck once and then putting it through a defender to an Oiler at the red line; he got away with the first play because of no pressure and got away with the second thanks to the incompetence of the Avs forward he passed through rather than through his own abilities.

    He certainly calmed down in the third period and looked much better for it, but his play with the puck through the first half of the game was exactly the opposite of “absolutely excellent.”

    You’re highlighting two shifts – one being his first and one in the second period which I acknowledged was ugly. He had 16 shifts. 14 of them were pretty good. I wish we had a completed passes stat for these guys because he made a bunch, including some very difficult reads on the opposition blue line.

    Were you live or TV yesterday? Perhaps we’re having a disagreement relating to that. Or maybe the angle just gives a different perspective. He certainly fumbled the puck less than Schultz did or Petry is prone to doing. Perhaps part of the reason he looked so good with the puck to me is how bad some of the D have looked this year.

  68. sliderule says:

    Jonathan Willis,

    I respect everyone sees things different but I remembered the play you high lighted and went back and reviewed it again.
    Yakupov lost the puck on a drive to net (not uncommon) and opponent who recovered it near the goal line carried up ice .Yakupov instead of hanging head turned and back checked hard to be the only forward to cover open winger ,Which he did well by the way and got victimized by his skate.
    Early in game he lost coverage in slot and Avs got a great shot.That deserves demerits but he later made a good play in slot denying a shot.He is definitely getting in right areas just has to be aware and aggressive.
    I watched the game on Avs feed and their play by play guy commented on how many uncontested shots the Avs had.We are still a mess in our own end because Eakins hasn’t been able to get them to defend the slot.

  69. leadfarmer says:

    I don’t get why everyone is saying Marincin was nervous. Other than the icing on the first touch, he was very quiet with the puck, which is exactly what you want with a young defenseman in his first game. If you ask me Potter is the one that looked nervous and fumbled the puck a lot.

  70. icecastles says:

    russ99: The issue here really isn’t Schultz, he’s where he should be at this stage of his development for the type of player he is. It’s the lack of a veteran mentor, poor coaching and mishandling by the organization.

    He’s exactly where he should be at this stage in his career.
    He is being poorly coached and mishandled.

    These two statements are 100% at odds with one another.

  71. russ99 says:

    icecastles,

    No they don’t.

    The first statement applies to his overall play (and numbers relative to other similar players) at this stage of his career, which is showing up mostly on offense, puck moving and the powerplay.

    The second applies to his need for improvement in the defensive zone (which all his detractors are focusing on) and as in the article I linked mentioned, he doesn’t have a Methot or Markov on his pairing to help him overcome those mistakes and optimize the effectiveness of his offensive play.

    BTW: I’m referring to Smith for the lack of coaching in this case, not Eakins.

  72. sliderule says:

    icecastles,

    Just from the way he is skating I think Schulz is playing hurt.

    Last year he was free wheeling.Not so this year.

  73. Lois Lowe says:

    sliderule,

    He probably has a lingering groin issue. Or, you know, a pubis thing.

  74. Jonathan Willis says:

    LMHF#1,

    All my Oilers games are television this year; I’m living in OKC.

  75. Jonathan Willis says:

    sliderule,

    My problem with the play was that there was no need for Yakupov to go one-on-three or whatever it was on the initial turnover. I’ll grant that he did get awfully unlucky on the goal, though.

  76. stevezie says:

    Jonathan ,
    sliderule,
    I remember the play well, because it sparked this exact debate in the stands. Yak turned down a decent shot and tried a low percentage, high skill play to search for a better opportunity. It’s pretty easy to argue this was a mistake (though I think there’s a counter to be made), but I don’t think it’s fair to blame an offensive-zone turnover was to blame for a goal 200 feet away.

    High skill plays create turnovers.

  77. fifthcartel says:

    Stauffer pumping Draisaitl as a potential good compliment to Nugent-Hopkins on OilersNow. Hmmmm….

  78. LMHF#1 says:

    Jonathan Willis:
    LMHF#1,

    All my Oilers games are television this year; I’m living in OKC.

    I thought so but figured you may have been back for some reason. He looked really steady live.

    On the first Avs goal, Yakupov had Hall out front and wasn’t able to get him the puck. If he’d either fired a good shot or found Hall, no worries and every chance that Hall gets the trick right there.

  79. Andy P says:

    Jon, do you get to look at an internal NHL/Oilers feed, or do you see the same feed as the rest of us?

  80. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Stauffer just had Button on. Talked about Nurse, Klefbom and Draisaitl.

    Button was pretty animated about Nurse not making the WJC. Stauffer didn’t bring up the Fucale issue (either classy move or timid depending on your POV).

    They both talked pretty excitedly about Draisaitl. THough Button is a bit more mild on him that most according to his latest rankings.

  81. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    fifthcartel:
    Stauffer pumping Draisaitl as a potential good compliment to Nugent-Hopkins on OilersNow. Hmmmm….

    Ha! should have refreshed the comments before posting!

  82. VanOil says:

    iirc the adage about streaky teams correctly. When you are at the tail end of a hot streak you win games you should probably lose and when you are on the tail end of a cold streak you lose games you should probably win.

    What the hell was last night? The team, after an incredibly poor season destroying first 20 games, has over the last 10 games returned to the wildly inconsistent mid table team they probably are. But the team, specifically the defense they iced last night, should have been on the other end of that score line.

    Who, what and how the Oilers will play Saturday is a complete mystery. But an AHL roster playing shuffle board poorly is as likely as an NHL team showing up to play hockey as far as I can tell.

  83. stevezie says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    It was driving me crazy that Schultz spent the the five on three so far away from the net. They only have three defenders, there is no need to stand on the blueline. Walk in! Constrict!

    Also, I have enough caveman in me to see eye to eye with Eakins in that it’s fine not to fight, but you need to get in the scrum. When Mark Arcobello has to push you out of the way so he can be the one to shove the guy who slapped your goalie’s hands, you need to reassess what it takes to be a good friend.

    He does enough things well that I remain hopeful (Godot’s points were true), but if we continue to see him as a top-pairing defenceman we will continue to lose.

    You’re totally wrong about movies being the art of imitators. It is the art of illiterates. Still fantastic though, I love the movies. Nothing cures homesickness better than a darkened theatre.

    Rom and LT, if you don’t know this song (and this singer) you might dig it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59jmKB2f1Sg
    (I couldn’t find the original, so here’s a nameless old-man covering it. It… it loses a lot, but so do the Oilers and we still watch them).

  84. icecastles says:

    russ99,

    Okay I see what you’re saying. valid points.

    But I still maintain that either due to miscoaching, mishandling or the lack of a good mentor, he is not where he should be at this stage in his career.

    If he IS where he should be at this stage, it seems difficult to argue the above points. They would have to be either either untrue (ie: he is being effectively coached and is thus developing as he should), or they are irrelevant (ie: he is being poorly coached but it’s made no difference to his development).

    I suspect I’m being obtuse and missing something obvious, but it just seems incongruous to me. Perhaps a more apt statement is that, given the problems with how he is being coached, handled and mentored, his development right where one would expect it to be, which is lagging behind what we would expect/hope, were circumstances ideal.

  85. fifthcartel says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Haha, I’m fully aboard the Draisaitl train if MacT doesn’t move the pick. Great name.

  86. stevezie says:

    Also, does anyone know what earned Gazdic the unsportsmanlike last night? Was it winning the fight? He didn’t seem interested in stopping punching even after the Av was reeling, but I don’t know that I’ve seen that called a penalty.

  87. Racki says:

    russ99:
    Racki,

    Schultz isn’t a physical defenseman, which is why they should pair him with one.

    I can’t believe the nitpicking on this guy 22 games into his second year. He’s a puck mover, and at this point in his development, everything else is bonus. Are you guys expecting him to look like Duncan Keith after 70 NHL games and minimal time in the AHL?

    He is improving defensively, even the coach sees that:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/Justin+Schultz+still+growing+into+Edmonton+Oilers+blue+line+role/9220845/story.html

    To me, his play on the powerplay is all about being unselfish. Sure he could take the shot all the time, but his overall vision to where the puck needs to go to set up the best shot is uncanny. Also, I never see him lose the puck over the blueline, which was a problem with our previous power play quarterbacks.

    The issue here really isn’t Schultz, he’s where he should be at this stage of his development for the type of player he is. It’s the lack of a veteran mentor, poor coaching and mishandling by the organization.

    This isn’t not picking about defensive play . You’re not understanding the scenario it seems and using the harping others do to shelter Schultz. Dubnyk makes save, play is dead, McGinn skates in and whacks Dubnyk’s glove hand. Almost anyone would have skated over to McGinn and got in his face. Not Schultz, he stands there and watches, right beside the play. Arco, a way smaller player, skated in and gave McGinn a shove.

    I don’t expect Schultz to be Keith… It doesn’t take a lot to skate over and get in someone’s face. Schultz has a lot of size on Arco even. This isn’t an attitude you learn with time. You either have it or you don’t. Schultz doesn’t. Not a fan of that, myself. It would be nice if he had a backbone. Doesn’t have to do it often, but in a moment like that you should be in a guys face. A lady byng winner would have done it. You don’t have to be a physical D man to want to look after a teammate. A fight wasn’t required… Just let the guy know your team doesn’t allow it… Just like the small Arco did.

  88. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: The one thing about Torn Curtain, though… is Wolfgang Kieling as Hermann Gromek is killer. I swear that movie is worth watching repeatedly if only for that performance.Germans in creepy, hyper violent investigative roles… man, what a legacy. Some others:Laurence Olivier as Dr. Christian Szell in Marathon Man (1976, Schlesinger)Anatoli Solonitsyn as Portnov in The Ascent (1977, Shepitko)Christoph Waltz as SD Standartenführer Hans Landa in Inglorious Basterds (2009, Tarantino)I’m sure there are more.

    Anatoli Solonitsyn was not German, he was Russian and a discovery of Tarkovsky… a very important director that one.

    Rope loses innate tension because Hitchcock took all the homosexual dynamics out of the screenplay (or maybe he felt forced to by the Code)… Compulsion probably does a better job of keeping those tensions.

    The light through the window at the end is probably Ropie’s best annotation to the extant cinematic grammar of the day, but unfortunately it is wasted on an eviscerated story. The “subjective” camera work you speak of, ie going against the notion of a filmed play, was already years old by Rope and developed by others.

  89. Caramel Obvious says:

    russ99:
    icecastles,

    No they don’t.

    The first statement applies to his overall play (and numbers relative to other similar players) at this stage of his career, which is showing up mostly on offense, puck moving and the powerplay.

    The second applies to his need for improvement in the defensive zone (which all his detractors are focusing on) and as in the article I linked mentioned, he doesn’t have a Methot or Markov on his pairing to help him overcome those mistakes and optimize the effectiveness of his offensive play.

    BTW: I’m referring to Smith for the lack of coaching in this case, not Eakins.

    My problem with JSchultz has nothing to do with defense. Indeed, I think the binary opposition between offense and defense is misleading. My problem is his lack of focus with the puck or when he is near the puck. How he sloppily misplays the puck at the blueline failing to keep the puck in, how he plays with a general lack of urgency on the power play. So if you don’t like the word lackadaisacal, I’ll substitute lack of focus. He doesn’t focus and it costs the team.

    And as I said, this is a spurned lover thing. He is exactly what I want out of a Dman but he plays with such a lack of care with the puck.

    My attitude towards Yakupov is similar. I want to love him but he’s such a puck hog he makes it so very hard. And like Shultz it is born out of his ability. Yakupov is a great passer but he is so unwilling to make the simply play. Schultz is a great skater but he’s so soft/casual with the puck he wastes it all too often.

    This is quite different from my hatred of Ryan Jones which is borne out of his general uselessness. Yakupov and JSchultz are far from useless.

  90. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: Anatoli Solonitsyn was not German, he was Russian and a discovery of Tarkovsky… a very important director that one.

    Neither was LO. That’s not the point, which should have been obvious by my inclusion of LO.

    The point is he was identified with Germans and specifically Germans of the WWII period, as a Belarusian collaborator/police interrogator for German occupiers.

    Agreed about Tarkovsky. I’d like to meet someone who would contest that.

  91. FastOil says:

    Racki: This isn’t not picking about defensive play . You’re not understanding the scenario it seems and using the harping others do to shelter Schultz. Dubnyk makes save, play is dead, McGinn skates in and whacks Dubnyk’s glove hand. Almost anyone would have skated over to McGinn and got in his face. Not Schultz, he stands there and watches, right beside the play. Arco,a way smaller player, skated in and gave McGinn a shove.

    I don’t expect Schultz to be Keith… It doesn’t take a lot to skate over and get in someone’s face. Schultz has a lot of size on Arco even. This isn’t an attitude you learn with time. You either have it or you don’t. Schultz doesn’t. Not a fan of that, myself. It would be nice if he had a backbone. Doesn’t have to do it often, but in a moment like that you should be in a guys face. A lady byng winner would have done it. You don’t have to be a physical D man to want to look after a teammate. A fight wasn’t required… Just let the guy know your team doesn’t allow it…Just like the small Arco did.

    Size is relative. Arco is small and stout, J Schultz is a bean pole. Arco is probably stronger and certainly more brave at this point, but he is older.

    I think JS’ defensive game would benefit from him getting stronger and more confident engaging players.

    Arco’s low centre of gravity is actually something of an advantage on tall players if he uses it well as he seems to because he is strong. He can put guys off balance and as said get the puck and scoot. He seems to have great acceleration I thought at times in the game.

  92. jbfuzz says:

    I was at the game last night and just wanted to share a couple of observations:

    1) Marincin did look pretty nervous at the outset but seemed to settle down as the game went on.
    2) Desptie the score, through the first 45-50 minutes of the game the Oilers looked a step slow. I kept looking at the scoreboard in disbelief, as they were being outplayed pretty handily but …
    3) The Oilers got virtually all of the bounces last night. The first goal was really a tone setter – DD makes a few big saves, a nice bounce off the Larsen clear and Hall scores despite the fact he couldn’t settle the puck down. Lots of luck involved in that sequence – hockey is a weird game.
    4) Question for the conversation: what is Gagner’s trade value looking at a d-man.

  93. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Neither was LO. That’s not the point, which should have been obvious by my inclusion of LO.The point is he was identified with Germans and specifically Germans of the WWII period, as a Belarusian collaborator/police interrogator for German occupiers. Agreed about Tarkovsky. I’d like to meet someone who would contest that.

    Sorry, have never thought much of LO, so I just glossed over his name. He’s kind of like an anti-Brando. And he doesn’t get Shakespeare, despite being more closely identified with The Bard than any other actor. And I suspect that he was actually playing his role in Sleuth straight up.

  94. godot10 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    Button was pretty animated about Nurse not making the WJC. Stauffer didn’t bring up the Fucale issue (either classy move or timid depending on your POV).

    On Fucale, Stauffer didn’t want to cross his boss, Lowe and MacT, who were going to draft Fucale, if Montreal didn’t. And it is something we all know. The Oilers traded down, immediately after Fucale was off the board, and Jarry and Comrie were still sitting there.

  95. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: The “subjective” camera work you speak of, ie going against the notion of a filmed play, was already years old by Rope and developed by others.

    That’s not what I said.

    Subjective camera work is the basis of nearly all cinema.

    What makes Rope interesting is that it is shot objectively for the most part (the camera never assumes the POV of a character in the action), but still manages to use camera techniques to be more than a “filmed play” (i.e., as opposed to that horrible, static scene I pointed to in Torn Curtain), esp. in the way it manages to direct the viewers attention.

    For those interested, have a look at all 10 cuts in the film:

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/10/08/rope_alfred_hitchcock_movie_has_10_cuts_or_edits_see_them_all_video.html

  96. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Neither was LO. That’s not the point, which should have been obvious by my inclusion of LO.The point is he was identified with Germans and specifically Germans of the WWII period, as a Belarusian collaborator/police interrogator for German occupiers. Agreed about Tarkovsky. I’d like to meet someone who would contest that.

    And I don’t think there’s anything inherently Germanic about that role, other than the collaboration. Germans are virtually props in that film.

  97. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Subjective camera work is the basis of nearly all cinema.

    Maybe in cinema, but not in films.. It took a long time for that to be so in Hollywood… thanks to Birth of a Nation. But I wouldn’t call filmed plays “cinema” or cinematic. Also, camera work can be subjective wthout it taking the perspective of a character in the action (which should be pretty obvious).

  98. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: Sorry, have never thought much of LO, so I just glossed over his name.He’s kind of like an anti-Brando.And he doesn’t get Shakespeare, despite being more closely identified with The Bard than any other actor.And I suspect that he was actually playing his role in Sleuth straight up.

    Ha!

    That’s the right comparison too as it pits the old style of acting, really mastered by LO against the “method acting” developed by Stanislavski

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_Stanislavski

    Oddly there is a joke — that may be apocryphal — about Marathon Man that epitomizes the split.

    Hoffman (the method actor) stayed up nights (I’ve also heard a version that had him forcing constipation on himself for several days) in order to “play” haggard, confused, tired and terrified… LO asked him about why he looked like shit. Hoffman told him what he’d been up to, to which LO apparently said: “try acting my dear boy!”

    http://www.simplydustinhoffman.com/tryactingdearboy.htm

  99. Racki says:

    Get a room you two

  100. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    spoiler: And I don’t think there’s anything inherently Germanic about that role, other than the collaboration. Germans are virtually props in that film.

    I said “identified with Germans” not that he was Germanic, whatever that means… eating sausage? ;)

    If you’ve seen it, I’m not sure how you could claim otherwise.

    spoiler: Maybe in cinema, but not in films.. It took a long time for that to be so in Hollywood… thanks to Birth of a Nation. But I wouldn’t call filmed plays “cinema” or cinematic. Also, camera work can be subjective wthout it taking the perspective of a character in the action (which should be pretty obvious).

    Not sure what to make of this.

    I never said “subjective” exclusively means from a character’s POV… read it again.

    Perhaps, I’m being unclear, but I’ll try again.

    1. plays (with the exception of some kind of experimental production) assume a very static POV. It is the nature of a
    Proscenium

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscenium.

    for lack of a better word, we can call this “objective POV”

    2. Film offers such a huge range options from shot selection to camera tricks (splits screens, irises, cross cuts, pans, etc.) that storytelling is radically transformed.

    One key element though is the ability to remove the audience from this “objective POV” and put them in the position of a character (i.e., typically an over-the-shoulder shot).

    we can call this “character’s subjective POV”

    3. Now, film also allows for another kind of “subjective POV” ie., that of the director, who has the ability to direct/misdirect the audience’s gaze with more than simply the action but with the movement of the shot.

    we can call this “director’s subjective POV”

    4. what makes Rope interesting is that it doesn’t use the “character’s subjective POV” which is used throughout cinema, but isn’t strictly stuck in the “objective POV” either (though it comes much closer than nearly all films made), because it uses “directors subjective POV” throughout, leading the viewer in one direction or another, while keeping a distance from them all.

    5. ie. it is a kind of blend, a carefully created aesthetic that is different and interesting (more objective than you typically see in any film — for good reason, see Torn Curtain… it doesn’t work — but without typical subjective character elements)

    I hope that is more clear! (probably not).

    ———
    As far as filmed plays not being cinematic… i certainly agree if you mean an actual stage production that is simply filmed with a single camera (PBS broadcasts these sometimes). These are clearly not “cinematic”… but we are talking about those are we.

  101. stevezie says:

    FastOil,

    I don’t like to armchair criticize guys for being afraid, but it really is not hard to get in somebody’s face and tell them to go spit. In the modern NHL people are not allowed to just start punching you. Regardless of how Arco’s weight is distributed, he is one of the smallest players in the entire league. He knows.

    Schultz’s fear and hesitation was unjustified- not as an NHL player, but as an adult. An adult should be willing to grab someone by the sweater and pull them away from your friend, or if someone insults your teammate an adult should be willing to insult them back.

    Racki may be right that some people just don’t have it, but some people just can’t tell the truth or give up a day off to help a friend move. (I just can’t seem to care about the vacuuming.) It may be inherent but it’s still a character flaw.

    A moral failing, you could say.

  102. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Has anyone heard if Belov was actually sent to Milwaukee? Will he play tonight?

  103. denny33 says:

    PaperKurtRussell,

    I ended up watching the Colorado broadcast last night. It was crazy reverse homerism!! They were just gushing about the Oilers all night. In particular, the first overalls, Hemsky, Gagner and Perron. Like, they were just going on and on… Oh that Eberle is soooo fasssttt…. Hemsky has quite possibly the best hands in the league… Also, during the Gazdic fight, they replayed it twice and raved about the big right hand!! They didn’t even defend their guy, they just talked about how much Gazdic pummelled him. Those guys were so nice, I wish I could have bought them each a coffee this morning…

    ********************************************************************************

    Completely agree. Like I said last year – very surprised by the vast majority of opposition network crews that are very balanced and fair on the whole.

    Quite Frankly – some of the crews really dote on the Oiles – Panthers crew sticks out as well.

    Two major exceptions – the Minnesota crew and the Ottawa crew.

  104. denny33 says:

    delooper,

    Good price?

  105. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    stevezie,

    I don’t know if “fear” is the right word. It could be. But it could also simply be that it simply doesn’t occur to 19 that he is supposed to do X, or maybe he doesn’t care.

    IIRC, once Arco got in there, 19 joined the scrum. It seems plausible that an “a ha” moment occurred there and that he’ll have to be reminded constantly until a new habit forms.

  106. stevezie says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I am completely willing to accept that explanation. I think almost anything can be taught to people willing to learn.

  107. russ99 says:

    stevezie,

    Really? Can we get over that macho posturing? It’s jock BS, and it’s especially bad in hockey.

    Besides, don’t we have players on the roster solely here to do something about it, rather than expect a kid to do something stupid?

    Somebody doesn’t buy in to the mob mentality and we deem him as soft. Unreal…

  108. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Stauffer just had Button on. Talked about Nurse, Klefbom and Draisaitl.
    Button was pretty animated about Nurse not making the WJC. Stauffer didn’t bring up the Fucale issue (either classy move or timid depending on your POV).
    They both talked pretty excitedly about Draisaitl. THough Button is a bit more mild on him that most according to his latest rankings.

    ************************************************************************
    Aaron Ekblad and Nurse could anchor our D core for a decade !!

  109. Racki says:

    stevezie:
    FastOil

    Ya that pretty much and up what I felt on the play. And it was just one play, but I think it characterizes what Justin Schultz is.. A guy who’s maybe got all the O talent in the world (although debatable since we still haven’t seen that much… But I believe it’s there) but not a lot of give a damn in the other important facets of the game. I think the other poster did have it right that you need to pair him with a big d man, but everyone has to put on their big boy pants now and then. A team stands up for each other. That’s what team toughness is all about. It also easily hides and offers protection to the scrawny guys. Maybe that’s one thing you learn… When your scrawny butt pushes a big guy in the crease, other people join the fray.

  110. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    An interesting sched. ripple:

    Cal gets Col tonight in the 2nd of a B2B, so gets a benefit over us, but then gives it back to us, by playing the 2nd of a B@B against us tomorrow night.

  111. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    denny33: Aaron Ekblad and Nurse could anchor our D core for a decade !!

    No! Bad dog! No!

  112. Racki says:

    russ99:
    stevezie,

    Really? Can we get over that macho posturing? It’s jock BS, and it’s especially bad in hockey.

    russ99:
    stevezie,

    Really? Can we get over that macho posturing? It’s jock BS, and it’s especially bad in hockey.

    Besides, don’t we have players on the roster solely here to do something about it, rather than expect a kid to do something stupid?

    Somebody doesn’t buy in to the mob mentality and we deem him as soft. Unreal…

    Besides, don’t we have players on the roster solely here to do something about it, rather than expect a kid to do something stupid?

    Somebody doesn’t buy in to the mob mentality and we deem him as soft. Unreal…

    He’s 22..wouldbt call that a kid. Seems like your babying him way too much. Last I checked, it’s hockey and the NHL. It’s a man’s league whether you realize it or accept it. One thing I learned playing D is the front of the net is yours.

    Mobile quoting fail on my part

  113. Bar_Qu says:

    Rom

    Stauffer is not sure about Belov either

    The @EdmontonOilers Anton Belov is also listed as on active roster. Do we assume he has been re-called and Gordon IR'd?— Bob Stauffer (@Bob_Stauffer) December 6, 2013

  114. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bar_Qu,

    Thanks I hadn’t found anything… and if Stauffer doesn’t know… I shouldn’t feel too bad about it.

  115. icecastles says:

    russ99: Really? Can we get over that macho posturing? It’s jock BS, and it’s especially bad in hockey.

    I’m on board with this comment. If it helps you win hockey games, it’s good. If it doesn’t, it’s either bad or unnecessary. Standing up for the defenseless is one thing, and that’s important.

    Puffing up and pounding your chest just because someone else did it… some call it being a man, I call that being a boy doing his impression of a man. A man knows how and when to pick his battles. Show me someone who sees everything as a fight, and I’ll show you someone who is patiently ignored by people who want to actually get stuff done.

    Not defending or criticizing Shultz’ play: I didn’t see it. My comment is specifically about Stevezie’s comment about “being an adult”.

    (In the 6 or 7 years I’ve been coming here, I think this is one of the first times I’ve ever disagreed with Stevezie. I feel sad now.)

  116. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    31 minutes ago
    @TSNBobMcKenzie: NHL govs likely to get (14-15) cap projection from league when they meet early next week in California. Sounds like it may be around $70M.

  117. Racki says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    31 minutes ago
    @TSNBobMcKenzie: NHL govs likely to get (14-15) cap projection from league when they meet early next week in California. Sounds like it may be around $70M.

    A GM (unnamed) correctly (perhaps) predicted that to media last year. Sounds about right. After next year, effect of SNET deal will be notice, so should jump a decent amount in 2015-2016 too. The hall/nuge/eberle extensions look better and better

  118. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Racki: A GM (unnamed) correctly (perhaps) predicted that to media last year. Sounds about right. After next year, effect of SNET deal will be notice, so should jump a decent amount in 2015-2016 too. The hall/nuge/eberle extensions look better and better

    Don’t tell that to d es ef

  119. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Not sure what to make of this.
    I never said “subjective” exclusively means from a character’s POV… read it again.
    Perhaps, I’m being unclear, but I’ll try again.
    1. plays (with the exception of some kind of experimental production) assume a very static POV. It is the nature of a
    Proscenium
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscenium.
    for lack of a better word, we can call this “objective POV”
    2. Film offers such a huge range options from shot selection to camera tricks (splits screens, irises, cross cuts, pans, etc.) that storytelling is radically transformed.
    One key element though is the ability to remove the audience from this “objective POV” and put them in the position of a character (i.e., typically an over-the-shoulder shot).
    we can call this “character’s subjective POV”
    3. Now, film also allows for another kind of “subjective POV” ie., that of the director, who has the ability to direct/misdirect the audience’s gaze with more than simply the action but with the movement of the shot.
    we can call this “director’s subjective POV”
    4. what makes Rope interesting is that it doesn’t use the “character’s subjective POV” which is used throughout cinema, but isn’t strictly stuck in the “objective POV” either (though it comes much closer than nearly all films made), because it uses “directors subjective POV” throughout, leading the viewer in one direction or another, while keeping a distance from them all.
    5. ie. it is a kind of blend, a carefully created aesthetic that is different and interesting (more objective than you typically see in any film — for good reason, see Torn Curtain… it doesn’t work — but without typical subjective character elements)
    I hope that is more clear! (probably not).

    Yes, those are the obvious bits to which I referred. Well except that the description of “subjective pov” is pretty limited here, but there’s no need to get into the rest of it in this forum.

  120. stevezie says:

    russ99:
    stevezie,

    Really? Can we get over that macho posturing? It’s jock BS, and it’s especially bad in hockey.

    Besides, don’t we have players on the roster solely here to do something about it, rather than expect a kid to do something stupid?

    Somebody doesn’t buy in to the mob mentality and we deem him as soft. Unreal…

    Look, I’m just a guy so take this for whatever it’s worth: I think you’re wrong.

    I will admit I went overboard because I made him seem like a bad person, when all I meant to do was roundly reject the notion that “that’s not his personality” ends the discussion. Criticisms on that play were valid and Schultz can be expected to learn what to do there just like Yak can be expected to learn to backcheck and use his team-mates.

    I agree that hockey is full of jock bs, but not everything associated with jock culture is bs. Actually I’ll take the argument one further: not only do some dinosaur elements of jock culture occasionally actually contribute to success in sports, but some of those principles apply to all elements of life.

    Almost all people want to feel supported. Almost all people want to feel that everyone in their boat is rowing as hard as they are. In any relationship if one party feels that their partner doesn’t have their back then there is going to be a problem. I’m sure your own personal and professional life has better examples than any I could name.

    So let me be clear: I don’t care if Schultz ever fights. I don’t think an explosion of violence was called for. I think Arcobello’s actions were appropriate and useful for instruction. Arco stood up for his goalie. If I recall this resulted in him getting shoved back. That’s it. Arco didn’t do anything dirty and did not suffer anything dirty. As some radioshow host said, Lady Bing winners would shove McGinn there.. Just show your team-mates that you care about their safety, and you are as dedicated to the Oiler cause as they are. While the expression of this idea is unique in hockey, the principle itself is universal.

    I guess you could argue that kind of violence has no place in hockey from either side, but I would disagree there too. That is hockey. I hate the broad street bullies, and I have no use for sideshows, but I like McGinn, Perron, Kronwall… Ales Hemsky is my favourite player, but this game will be worse off the day his style is the only kind we see.

  121. stevezie says:

    icecastles: (In the 6 or 7 years I’ve been coming here, I think this is one of the first times I’ve ever disagreed with Stevezie. I feel sad now.)

    Ironically, this sentence makes me feel warm and happy.

  122. icecastles says:

    stevezie,

    Hug.

    I mean… manly hug.

    I mean… high five.

    Handshake.

    Butt pat.

    As you were.

  123. G Money says:

    icecastles: Puffing up and pounding your chest just because someone else did it… some call it being a man, I call that being a boy doing his impression of a man. A man knows how and when to pick his battles. Show me someone who sees everything as a fight, and I’ll show you someone who is patiently ignored by people who want to actually get stuff done.

    I got a bit of a chuckle when I read this.

    Just imagine if it was applied to comment threads on the interwebs …

    Probably wouldn’t affect this site that much, but poor ON would fall silent!

  124. stevezie says:

    icecastles,

    I will expand my comment on “being an adult”: there are certain things in life that scare us- talking in public, or changing diapers, or pulling a violent drunk off your friend. These are still important parts of life, that for the most part are harmless. The fear is all internal. The superior person overcomes it.

    I agree with Eakins that a pack mentality will contribute to winning. I wasn’t asking Schultz to fight anybody. I can see no reason why he wouldn’t respond to an attack on Dubnyk other than
    A) That’s not the sort of thing he is comfortable with, or
    B) He doesn’t give a crap about Dubnyk.

    I don’t think either of these are acceptable answers. Sometimes to be a more effective part of a team, or a business, or a marriage we have to learn to do things we aren’t instinctually comfortable with. We also have to learn to pretend to care about what doesn’t interest us (ideally leading to actually caring, but either way).

    Right?

    Now, you could argue that the other team slapping your goalie doesn’t affect winning. I will disagree there too but that’s a different conversation. You could also argue that shoving him isn’t the best way to stop him from doing it. I whole-heartedly agree that many forms of security (especially at concerts) cause a lot more problems than they prevent, but I think Arco’s token resistance was the right thing.

  125. Halfwise says:

    icecastles: stevezie, Hug.I mean… manly hug. I mean… high five. Handshake. Butt pat. As you were.

    OK now you two get a room.

  126. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    31 minutes ago
    @TSNBobMcKenzie: NHL govs likely to get (14-15) cap projection from league when they meet early next week in California. Sounds like it may be around $70M.

    That’s pretty much what I had figured as well from last year. Taken in the context of the previous CBA’s rise over the course of seven or eight years, that is pretty reasonable.

    I expect that the Hall line in the sand may become a maginot line by contract’s end.

    I expect by the time the new coliseum (aka the Jolly Roger) opens we can expect a cap in between $80 and $90 million. Glen Sather and MSG should be excited about being able to spend all that money.

  127. RexLibris says:

    Off topic – anyone see the WC draw today?

    I was surprised at the dearth of blondes (be they real or bottled) on stage. Really, honestly surprised.

    I was certain they’d slot in a lot more redundant aesthetic “focal points” for this staged event.

  128. Halfwise says:

    stevezie,

    I support this line of thinking. There’s a ritual to be followed, a team norm where standing up for a pack member reinforces the pack identity.

    When it doesn’t happen, as in the Schultz case, the absence of the ritual is noticeable. If the Oilers want to be respected as a team, they as a team need to become tougher to play against. Face washes and scrums are part of that, like it or not.

  129. Racki says:

    icecastles: I’m on board with this comment. If it helps you win hockey games, it’s good. If it doesn’t, it’s either bad or unnecessary. Standing up for the defenseless is one thing, and that’s important.

    Puffing up and pounding your chest just because someone else did it… some call it being a man, I call that being a boy doing his impression of a man. A man knows how and when to pick his battles. Show me someone who sees everything as a fight, and I’ll show you someone who is patiently ignored by people who want to actually get stuff done.

    Not defending or criticizing Shultz’ play: I didn’t see it. My comment is specifically about Stevezie’s comment about “being an adult”.

    (In the 6 or 7 years I’ve been coming here, I think this is one of the first times I’ve ever disagreed with Stevezie. I feel sad now.)

    Some may not agree, but it’s a cardinal rule that you protect your keeper like he’s made out of china. Instead, Schultz worried that he, himself, is made of china. It may seem like macho bravado to some, but I think all players know that there is a time for it and this is one.. And when you just watch idly while someone takes a swing at your goalie, it isn’t perceived well. Not saying anyone is going to hate Schultz on the team. I don’t even hate Schultz at all. I just pointed out one moment I thought Arco looked like a hero while Schultz wall flowered.

  130. Rebilled says:

    RexLibris,

    I saw some of it and the musical acts were not the greatest. Way too long and weird that there were musical acts anyway. If this World Cup goes off without having any more problems it will be a miracle.

    Speaking of musical acts..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lct9-zJbrpY

  131. Lucinius says:

    First off; when someone whacks your goalie or does anything physical to them (even snow-showers) its the job of the team, especially the d-men, to ‘fix it’ via scrums, shoves, punches, whacks.. whatever needs to be done. Why? The moment they don’t it emboldens players to do more of it. This is bad for two reasons;

    1) This can engender anger/apathy at team-mates from the goalie because they don’t feel protected or part of the ‘group’. Protecting the goalie is one of the sure-fire ways to not only bring your goalie into the ‘pack’ of a team mentality (as goalies tend to be loners, or somewhat removed from the other players — its not uncommon for goalies to sit away from other players pre and post game as an example). Also, when they don’t feel protected they may fore-go sanity and start whacking and such at the other team out of a need to protect themselves; and this almost always results in penalties against.

    2) It can mentally shake up most goalies if they continually have to put up with that sort of stuff. It just screws with your ability to concentrate solely on stopping the puck because you start to worry about whether or not the incoming players may try to take more serious liberties. Naturally, this also extends into increased an likelihood of injuries to the goalie.

    When I played goal if I had a d-man who didn’t stand up for me I would skate out to him at some point and tell him to start doing so or to fuck off and die because if he wasn’t interested in protecting me, I wasn’t interested in having him on my team. When this happened most other players on the team would end up talking with the person in question and get him to start doing it — often because the feeling was that if a guy wasn’t willing to protect his goalie he wasn’t going to stand up for anyone and if that’s an attitude that sticks around.. the best thing that can happen to that player is getting traded. It causes a lot of things to fester.

    Lastly, about the projected salary cap increase; not a surprise, although some, like He Who Shall Not Be Named, seemed certain it would only be around 65-66 million for some odd reason. The cap increasing was somewhat of a “duh!” reveal. Year after this should see a similar hike to something around 75-76 million, imo.

  132. godot10 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: No! Bad dog! No!

    Niedermayer, Pronger, and Beuchemin == Stanley Cup

    Schultz, Nurse, and Ekblad ==

  133. OilClog says:

    Arco did look like a Hero, Jultz head was some place else, I’m sure it was pointed out to him a few times slyly to engage alil more after watching some film. This incident though doesn’t and shouldn’t sway someone’s opinion of him as a player. He’s playing very well since coming back from injury, he’s progressing on the defence side of the game and still supplying offense. This is a good player with a great future, lay off the kid.

  134. OilClog says:

    godot10: Niedermayer, Pronger, and Beuchemin == Stanley Cup

    Schultz, Nurse, and Ekblad ==

    Did this just happen? Lolol Today is Friday, I think you took your Saturday pills.

  135. godot10 says:

    stevezie: Look, I’m just a guy so take this for whatever it’s worth: I think you’re wrong.

    I will admit I went overboard because I made him seem like a bad person, when all I meant to do was roundly reject the notion that “that’s not his personality” ends the discussion. Criticisms on that play were valid and Schultz can be expected to learn what to do there just like Yak can be expected to learn to backcheck and use his team-mates.

    I agree that hockey is full of jock bs, but not everything associated with jock culture is bs. Actually I’ll take the argument one further: not only do some dinosaur elements of jock culture occasionally actually contribute to success in sports, but some of those principles apply to all elements of life.

    Almost all people want to feel supported. Almost all people want to feel that everyone in their boat is rowing as hard as they are. In any relationship if one party feels that their partner doesn’t have their back then there is going to be a problem. I’m sure your own personal and professional life has better examples than any I could name.

    So let me be clear: I don’t care if Schultz ever fights. I don’t think an explosion of violence was called for. I think Arcobello’s actions were appropriate and useful for instruction. Arco stood up for his goalie. If I recall this resulted in him getting shoved back. That’s it. Arco didn’t do anything dirty and did not suffer anything dirty. As some radioshow host said, Lady Bing winners would shove McGinn there.. Just show your team-mates that you care about their safety, and you are as dedicated to the Oiler cause as they are. While the expression of this idea is unique in hockey, the principle itself is universal.

    I guess you could argue that kind of violence has no place in hockey from either side, but I would disagree there too. That is hockey. I hate the broad street bullies, and I have no use for sideshows, but I like McGinn, Perron, Kronwall… Ales Hemsky is my favourite player, but this game will be worse off the day his style is the only kind we see.

    It would be humiliating for McGinn (I think it was McGinn) to punch Arcobello back or for him to fight Arcobello, so Marco can stick him a bit, because Marco is beyond small. McGinn wouldn’t think twice about getting a free shot in at Justin Schulz.

    The one thing a goon type player wants is a skilled player to open the door. Schultz sticking his nose in there probably means a broken nose, or a broken jaw.

  136. Pouzar says:

    Caramel Obvious: My problem with JSchultz has nothing to do with defense.Indeed, I think the binary opposition between offense and defense is misleading.My problem is his lack of focus with the puck or when he is near the puck.How he sloppily misplays the puck at the blueline failing to keep the puck in, how he plays with a general lack of urgency on the power play.So if you don’t like the word lackadaisacal, I’ll substitute lack of focus.He doesn’t focus and it costs the team.

    And as I said, this is a spurned lover thing.He is exactly what I want out of a Dman but he plays with such a lack of care with the puck.

    My attitude towards Yakupov is similar.I want to love him but he’s such a puck hog he makes it so very hard.And like Shultz it is born out of his ability.Yakupov is a great passer but he is so unwilling to make the simply play.Schultz is a great skater but he’s so soft/casual with the puck he wastes it all too often.

    This is quite different from my hatred of Ryan Jones which is borne out of his general uselessness.Yakupov and JSchultz are far from useless.

    Great post. You have encapsulated my very thoughts on each player you mentioned. Love the “wanting to love Yak” line. I am the same way.

  137. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    godot10: Schultz, Nurse, and Ekblad ==

    Three people who have never been in my kitchen?

  138. godot10 says:

    stevezie:
    icecastles,

    I will expand my comment on “being an adult”: there are certain things in life that scare us- talking in public, or changing diapers, or pulling a violent drunk off your friend. These are still important parts of life, that for the most part are harmless. The fear is all internal. The superior person overcomes it.

    I agree with Eakins that a pack mentality will contribute to winning. I wasn’t asking Schultz to fight anybody. I can see no reason why he wouldn’t respond to an attack on Dubnyk other than
    A) That’s not the sort of thing he is comfortable with, or
    B) He doesn’t give a crap about Dubnyk.

    I don’t think either of these are acceptable answers. Sometimes to be a more effective part of a team, or a business, or a marriage we have to learn to do things we aren’tinstinctually comfortable with. We also have to learn to pretend to care about what doesn’t interest us (ideally leading to actually caring, but either way).

    Right?

    Now, you could argue that the other team slapping your goalie doesn’t affect winning. I will disagree there too but that’s a different conversation. You could also argue that shoving him isn’t the best way to stop him from doing it. I whole-heartedly agree that many forms of security (especially at concerts) cause a lot more problems than they prevent, but I think Arco’s token resistance was the right thing.

    Don Cherry railed for years against Crosby sticking his nose into things if he was then going to walk away from the actual fight.

    Is Sydney now a wuss because he finally mostly heeds Cherry’s advice?

    Is Don Cherry a wuss for saying that skill players should stick their noses into the faces of tough guys?

  139. theres oil in virginia says:

    stevezie:
    A) That’s not the sort of thing he is comfortable with, or
    B) He doesn’t give a crap about Dubnyk.

    maybe its:
    C) He’s slow on the uptake and stands there watching the action before he realizes that he’s not watching the game on TV, but actually playing in it. Kinda like what happened on the Colorado goal where he was standing there watching Dubnyk make the initial save and watching the rebound sitting there in front of the net and watching his mark tuck it neatly into the net.

  140. bendelson says:

    Schultz’s reaction (or lackthereof) to the incident in question certainly speaks to the perceived nonchalance in Schultz’s overall game. To many, his lackadaisical ways are very frustrating and caramel obvious.

    In this instance, I believe he needed to react and didn’t until he noticed a teammate out of his comfort zone but doing it nevertheless.

    I’d call it nothing more than a teachable moment for young Schultz.

    As an aside, I have noticed more ‘reaction’ from both Eberle and RNH this season when it comes to these types of incidents… good for them. Learning from Mr. Perron perhaps?

    Schultz will get there.

  141. Pouzar says:

    No way this team is anywhere near Ekblad so I don’t even see the point of discussing that pipe dream. There are no MacKinnons, Barkovs, or Druins in this draft to push Ekblad into Oiler range.

  142. Halfwise says:

    Belov recalled, clearly sending him down was a roster-management move not a demotion.

  143. icecastles says:

    Stevezie: Agree 100%.

    Rackie: From what I understand of what happened in front of Dubnyk, yes, this is a case where Schultz should have done something here. My point was more about perceived toughness in general than that particular scenario. I didn’t see it so it’s hard to comment. But I agree the goalie should be protected. Especially if M.A. Bergeron is on your team. Not that I’m clinging to old hurts.

    Godot: Cherry isn’t a wuss. Just a dick.

  144. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Halfwise:
    Belov recalled, clearly sending him down was a roster-management move not a demotion.

    Edmonton Oilers ✔ @EdmontonOilers
    #Oilers recall defenceman Anton Belov from @OKCBarons.

    Cool, thanks!

    It looks like the reluctantly put Gordon on the IR:

    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

    They can do that retroactively and still have him play tomorrow according to JW… so maybe they didn’t know that last night… maybe they were pinching pennies… who the eff knows…

    At any rate, if the roster stays the same they won’t have to demote anyone… unless Gordon comes off the IR, in which case someone’s out.

    One thing’s for sure MacT is way more active on this stuff than Tambo ever dreamed of being.

  145. russ99 says:

    Wow, Grantland has picked up this story:

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10083164/zone-entry-nhl

    I tells ya boys, Bruins hockey is on the way out, all it will take is a few teams winning the Cup with less dumping and everyone else will copycat them.

    Btw: the Hawks by my eye were around 50-50 for dump vs. carry in the playoffs last year.

    Also since I stirred up a hornets nest earlier, yes, there should be at least some level of pushback if there’s intent to either injure or throw off the goalie, but I don’t get why Schultz has to be the one to do it, especially if he’s on a pairing with Ference or N. Schultz who can take care of it.

  146. Lucinius says:

    russ99:

    Also since I stirred up a hornets nest earlier, yes, there should be at least some level of pushback if there’s intent to either injure or throw off the goalie, but I don’t get why Schultz has to be the one to do it, especially if he’s on a pairing with Ference or N. Schultz who can take care of it.

    He was the one who should have done it because he was right there. He also shouldn’t be the only one doing it. If he starts it and then gets Arco coming in, that’s better. You shouldn’t have one guy doing it alone unless he’s that sort of player (Smid loved to do it) but a player who’s there and doesn’t engage? That’s a warning signal.

  147. stevezie says:

    icecastles,

    I’m glad we worked this out. I also agree that toughness in general is an, at best, poorly understoof concept. I was a Tom Gilbert fan.

    godot10: The one thing a goon type player wants is a skilled player to open the door. Schultz sticking his nose in there probably means a broken nose, or a broken jaw.

    This is not true. Not true at all. You are saying that if Schultz would have just shoved McGinn, just given token resistance, that McGinn would have been his face until bones broke?

    This fear does not reflect the reality of fighting in today’s NHL. Nothing would have happened. McGinn was expecting a shove. He would have shoved back. That would be it.

    This mole hill is steadily rising. I’m going to stop talking about it. (You’re right about Cherry making no sense though.)

  148. delooper says:

    denny33:
    delooper,
    Good price?

    Everything is quite affordable here in Poland. Not as cheap as Ukraine, but still. I only brought 200 EUR on this trip and I feel like a rich man. Haven’t been able to spend it all. Great pickles in the grocery stores!

  149. delooper says:

    FastOil: Delooper are you a spy?

    I have a friend that was suspected of being a spy, when he was visiting his wife in Yemen. But no, I’m just an academic. :(

  150. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    delooper: I have a friend that was suspected of being a spy, when he was visiting his wife in Yemen.But no, I’m just an academic.

    Another one?

    THis place is lousy with them.

  151. Halfwise says:

    delooper: Everything is quite affordable here in Poland. Not as cheap as Ukraine, but still. I only brought 200 EUR on this trip and I feel like a rich man. Haven’t been able to spend it all. Great pickles in the grocery stores!

    There’s something special about Polish mustard, too. Can’t explain it other than to say it tastes better, whether it’s the mild or hot kind.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca