COYOTES AT OILERS G53, 13-14

As we enter day 4000 in our ongoing series “I can’t think of anything but getting a defenseman” we begin to realize the Oilers might be screwed. Are there ANY teams in the NHL who could be wlling to give up a legit top pairing D?

  • The Duke of Hafford: LT, with the draft in Philadelphia this year and their want for a defenceman, do you see them trying to make a splash? If Ekblad is available when the Oilers are drafting, would you trade Ekblad for Couturier +?

coburn  22

BRAYDON COBURN PLAYER CARD

corburnWhat would it cost—aside from the first round pick—to acquire Coburn and Couturier? I don’t have that answer, but it’s probably an idea worth mulling over in the months ahead.

  • Goal: the new Dwayne Roloson, Ben Scrivens
  • Left Defense: Braydon Coburn, Andrew Ference, Martin Marincin
  • Right Defense: Jeff Petry, Justin Schultz, Taylor Fedun, Anton Belov
  • Center: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Sean Couturier , Boyd Gordon, Matt Hendricks, Anton Lander
  • Left Wing: Taylor Hall, David Perron, the new Ethan Moreau, Ryan Smyth, Luke Gazdic
  • Right Wing: Jordan Eberle, Nail Yakupov, the new Mike Grier, Tyler Pitlick

I didn’t take anyone off the roster, you might have to deal away the first and Gagner and something else, or maybe it’s Eberle I don’t know. Anyway, interesting idea and Coburn does seem to be having a nice season. Coburn is signed for only two more seasons, so you’d need to factor it in.

CROSSING JORDAN

hennessey gif

  • A lot of rumors about Eberle being traded, but I don’t see it. I think the Oilers are sincere when saying Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Yakupov, Justin Schultz are the inner circle of the team—and maybe they give up on one, but it seems to me it’ll be Yakupov if it’s anyone. Even then, I don’t believe MacTavish trades the Russian yet, not until he can get full value. Derek Van Diest has the story of Eberle’s reaction here. Again, I don’t buy it.

 EKBLAD

If the Oilers do take Ekblad at the draft, it might jumble the fall blue. I can see Nurse-Ekblad being a pairing at the rookie tournament, and then the Joey Moss, the early Calgary pre-season game and then the late Dallas game and into the regular season. It could be an issue, the Oilers have shown patience in only a few instances (Eberle, Nurse) and never with the number ones.

rom

It’s true, the Oilers will probably trade away 83 and chances are they will do it for a draft pick or two. A couple of things to remember: the value of picks this year is not high based on quality of talent—if the pick isn’t inside the top 15 then #27 might have as much value as #43, it’s all a crap shoot from there.

OILERS CURRENT DRAFT PICKS

  • #2 overall (D Aaron Ekblad)
  • #117 overall (R Jaden Lindo)
  • #122 overall (L Alex Pawelczyk)
  • #151 overall (C Jason Cotton)
  • #152 overall (R Miska Siikonen)
  • #182 overall (L Brandon Baddock)

Oilers will probably grab a second and a third if possible, otherwise it’ll be similar to the 2008 entry draft. Edmonton has added Perron and Scrivens with help from this draft, I think they’ll sacrifice Hemsky, Nick Schultz, Ryan Smyth and maybe even Gagner for picks (and one suspects players). That doesn’t mean they won’t trade picks they acquire, in fact I can see the Oilers trading down from #2 overall to add a second if they feel there’s better value around #5-#7.

I’ll say this: Reinhart and Bennett are similar players to what the Oilers already have, and if they move down to 5-7 there should be a power forward available. Would you deal #2 for #5 and #35? Edmonton may do that this year, depending on what’s available when they select.

If the Edmonton Oilers traded the first round pick in a deal, for a legit NHL top pairing D, and didn’t draft until #117? Music! The NHL roster is the vital item to address this summer.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

hennessy1

Friday! Game day! Scheduled to appear on TSN 1260 at 10 this morning:

10-1260 via text, or @Lowetide_ on twitter. See you on the radio!

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335 Responses to "COYOTES AT OILERS G53, 13-14"

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  1. Woodguy says:

    As we enter day 4000 in our ongoing series “I can’t think of anything but getting a defenseman”

    No shit.

  2. LMHF#1 says:

    Remember when the team was good enough that there was a debate whether too much money was being spent there? Wasn’t that long ago but might as well have been forever ago.

  3. slopitch says:

    The one nice part about being sellers is that there is 5 teams in the west alone with a legitimate shot a SCF. Surely the Oilers can win a trade long term. San Jose needs to go for it. Anaheim has a lot of nice assets (John Gibson). STL is in the mix and has some attractive prospects (go after Jaskin). Pitts could really use a winger and is fairly loaded on D. Even TBL could make a push. I still don’t see anyone beating CHI but its a good year to sell.

    If the draft sucks, go for prospects.

  4. thejonrmcleod says:

    Gagner, #1 pick, Klefbom for Coburn, Couturier?

  5. Woodguy says:

    If a Real NHL 1st pairing LHD is not available, then they should target a Real NHL 2nd pairing LHD who is ready to make the jump to 1st pairing.

    I know this just creates more “putting players in positions above their established NHL ability”, but its less so and may be the best option.

    So, who are the better 2LDs in the NHL on teams where they can fill his spot relatively easily, and therefore won’t cost the 1st or a ClusterKid?

  6. thejonrmcleod says:

    Regarding the trade proposal above, if that #1 pick is the first overall pick, the Flyers would have to add something. (Of course, this won’t happen, and I’m going to be mocked in the comments below for this.)

  7. j says:

    slopitch,

    I think this is a great point. There are plenty of teams who require that last piece to the puzzle and/or depth signing. The only questions is whether the Oilers’ cast offs have played themselves off this list. I suspect the only signings that make sense on the open market are Hemsky, Smyth and Shultz given the are all UFAs. Gagner is a much different proposition (i.e. not a rental) but may still have a marketplace. There was some chatter about Chicago looking for a second line centre to run with Kane. You would have to believe Gags would be near the top of that wish list (money aside).

  8. goldenchild says:

    For Hemsky’s sake I hope he gets moved and to a team that makes a deep run.

    From the Oilers side I have no idea why they at least wouldnt be making a reasonable offer and trying to sign him for next 3-4 years. As your #3 RW he has a ton of value, can play up in the lineup or truck through with tough zone starts and tough QOC. Hes been a model teamate and player for Eakins, has played well with Gordon especially with Perron on LW.

    Thing is if you move him for picks then you need to find a replacement for him in offseason and it cant be internal, it cant be a kid or your getting worse. So how much does a vet replacement cost? Last year you paid 3Mil for Gordon to be a 3/4 center and he brings almost no offense. To get a player that can play that role and have abiliy to move up in lineup with any type of track record you are looking at 3.5 Mil+. Since you know he is a fit and can handle that role, doesnt it make sense to at least offer 83 in the 4Mil neighborhood to see if he takes it? Makes no sense to me.

  9. Woodguy says:

    thejonrmcleod:
    Gagner, #1 pick, Klefbom for Coburn, Couturier?

    I’m not sold and giving up Kelf for 2 years of Coburn (although if it also brings Couturier its a slam dunk)

    As much as I don’t like putting kids in over their heads, I’m dying to see Klef up and can
    ‘t wait for N.Shultz to be traded.

    Todd Nelson called him a “horse” the other day and said he’s going to play him 25 minutes a night.

    He’s very physical in removing the player from the puck, breaking up the cycle, and making a good first quick pass, and he’s doing it against men in the AHL.

    That is an oasis in the desert that is the LHD on the Oilers.

    As good as Marincin has been, Klef might pass him like a 4th liner passes Nick Shultz on the outside.

  10. PunjabiOil says:

    MacT offered 3 second round picks for Coburn in the summer (as per Dregor) and this was rejected by Holmgren.

    They also put a competitive offer for Bernier, and offered up Nurse + for Schneider.

    There hasn’t been any lack of effort on MacT’s part. Hard to do deals when there aren’t willing partners.

  11. VOR says:

    LT,

    In the last game day post you said,

    “I remember the Canucks from the beginning, and it’s been a strange and unusual journey for the team. At the expansion draft they gathered good players and tried to compete right away, and won 24 games in year one (respectable). Vancouver has had ups and downs, but they’ve never been truly bad as a team, not really.”

    I have been thinking about that ever since. It sort of raises the question of how do we define bad? Like you I was once a Canuck fan. I confess in 82 I was still rooting for them. But I seemed to remember from my exercise of looking for comparable streaks to the Oilers that post spring 82 the Canucks had some lean years. Here are the numbers:

    .469, .456, .369, .369, .413, .369, .463, .400. .406 = an average winning percentage of .413 over 9 years. Remarkably they made 5 trips to the playoffs.

    Meanwhile since spring .2006 the Oilers are:

    .433, .537, .518, .378, .378, .451, .469, .346 = an average winning percentage of .442 over 8 years. They have made no trips to the playoffs.

    So are you saying the Oilers aren’t bad or that you and I are deceived by the Canucks free passes to the playoffs into thinking they weren’t stinko, epically bad?

  12. G Money says:

    Twenty-eight year old Marc Methot benched in Ottawa. Was considered first pairing going into the season. Purportedly for injury recovery, but apparently it’s not really the case and he’s not happy about it.

    Traditional thought is that defensemen develop slowly. Recent discussion on this blog suggesting that modern assessment and development of defensemen may be allowing them to play effective minutes earlier and earlier.

    Traditional thought is that defensemen can be effective well into their 30s, but lately we seem to be seeing certain types of players hitting the wall in their early 30s.

    Just pondering if the three small data points above are just that – independent coincident unrelated data points – or if they are leading indicators of a sea change in the career path of D men.

    If so, any trade and signing strategies would need to be updated to take said change into account …

  13. oliveoilers says:

    PunjabiOil:
    MacT offered 3 second round picks for Coburn in the summer (as per Dregor) and this was rejected by Holmgren.

    They also put a competitive offer for Bernier, and offered up Nurse + for Schneider.

    There hasn’t been any lack of effort on MacT’s part.Hard to do deals when there aren’t willing partners.

    Sorry dude, we didn’t offer Nurse + for Snidy Schneider. That’s what Gillis asked for and MacT quite rightly said no. Snidy went for just the 9th overall, if I remember rightly. Just Gillis trying to high ball us.

  14. Woodguy says:

    PHX has been shitty lately and now Hanzel is so hurt right now.

    They are 3-7-0 in their last 10 and the last 2 games without Hanzel they lost at home to TOR and on Wednesday in CAL.

    This game is very winnable.

    EDM HomeFen 48.9% (24th in NHL)
    PHX RoadFen 49.2% (16th in NHL)

    Another game that’s close on paper, but I think the Oilers have an edge with Hazel out, he’s the best forward on PHX and he owns EDM Dmen souls on the boards.

    One big issue with the Oilers has been the 21-19 pairing who have been sub 40% corgis.

    Against the Dys they turned it around and put up a 58%, which is a very positive development.

    I know that the OIlers were trailing most of the game and that will pump their corgi a bit, but I’ll take what I can get at this point.

    All Eakins needs to do now is sub Belov in for NShultz and they might have a chance to win tonight.

    Go Oilers!!

    *clap, clap*

  15. rickithebear says:

    Playoff teams need Goaltending, Box protection D with Strong EvP production and good EVG depth.
    9-11 top 180 (bottom 2ndline +) ev goal scorers.
    Hall, Eberle have been top 15 in EVG
    Perron, Yakupov top 50 EVG
    RNH top 90
    I do not worry about our top 6.

    Bottom 6

    Last 5 years:
    Hemsky
    9-10 22gm 4 EVG
    10-11 47gm 13Evg
    11-12 69gm 9 EVG
    12-13 38gm 4 EVG
    13-14 48gm 6 EVG
    Smyth:
    9-10 67gm 11evg
    10-11 82gm 14 EVG
    11-12 82gm 15 EVG
    12-13 47gm 2 EVHG
    13-14 42gm 3 EVG
    Gagner
    9-10 68gm 9EVG
    10-11 68gm 12 Evg
    11-12 75gm 12 EVG
    12-13 48gm 10 EVG
    13-14 39gm 5 EVG
    Jones
    9-10 49 gm 6 EVG
    10-11 81gm 16 EVG
    11-12 79gm 14 EVg
    12-13 27 gm 2evg
    13-14 33gm 2EVG
    Matt hendricks
    9-10 56gm 9EVG
    10-11 77gm 8EVG
    11-12 78 gm 4 EVG
    12-13 48gm 5 EVG
    13-14 47gm 2EVG
    Gordon
    9-10 36gm 4 EVG
    10-11 60 gm 3 EVG
    11-12 75gm 8EVG
    12-13 48 gm 4 EVG
    13-14 46gm 7EVG
    Jeonsuu
    9-10 11gm 1EVg
    10-11 42gm 6 EVG
    12-13 7gm 0 EVG
    13-14 29gm 1 EVG
    Trade Hemsky, Gagner, Smyth.
    Go ahead!
    Eberle WTF!

    Vanek 19 EVG
    Grabovski 17 EVG
    Boyes 16 EVG
    Kulemin 15 EVG
    Seteguchi 15 EVG
    O. jokinen 14 EVG
    Erat 14EVG
    Raymond 12G
    J. Jokinen 12G
    Stafford 12 EVG
    Goc 11 EVG

  16. oliveoilers says:

    G Money:
    Twenty-eight year old Marc Methot benched in Ottawa.Was considered first pairing going into the season. Purportedly for injury recovery, but apparently it’s not really the case and he’s not happy about it.

    Traditional thought is that defensemen develop slowly. Recent discussion on this blog suggesting that modern assessment and development of defensemen may be allowing them to play effective minutes earlier and earlier.

    Traditional thought is that defensemen can be effective well into their 30s, but lately we seem to be seeing certain types of players hitting the wall in their early 30s.

    Just pondering if the three small data points above are just that – independent coincident unrelated data points – or if they are leading indicators of a sea change in the career path of D men.

    If so, any trade and signing strategies would need to be updated to take said change into account …

    Don’t forget we had our own 1st pairing d-man that thought his poop didn’t stink in Whitney. Sometimes it’s attitude. The player’s play drops off and they don’t take the criticism kindly because, hey, I’m a 1st pairing d-man in the NHL.

  17. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers: Sorry dude, we didn’t offer Nurse + for Snidy Schneider.That’s what Gillis asked for and MacT quite rightly said no.Snidy went for just the 9th overall, if I remember rightly.Just Gillis trying to high ball us.

    No.,

    MacT offered the 7th overall +. and Gillis said no.

    As reported by either Rishaug or Dreger.

    That’s why the Oilers table looked stunned when the NJD deal went down because EDM offered more.

  18. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy:
    PHX has been shitty latelyand now Hanzel is so hurt right now.

    They are 3-7-0 in their last 10 and the last 2 games without Hanzel they lost at home to TOR and on Wednesday in CAL.

    This game is very winnable.

    EDM HomeFen 48.9% (24th in NHL)
    PHX RoadFen 49.2% (16th in NHL)

    Another game that’s close on paper, but I think the Oilers have an edge with Hazel out, he’s the best forward on PHX and he owns EDM Dmen souls on the boards.

    One big issue with the Oilers has been the 21-19 pairing who have been sub 40% corgis.

    Against the Dys they turned it around and put up a58%, which is a very positive development.

    I know that the OIlers were trailing most of the game and that will pump their corgi a bit, but I’ll take what I can get at this point.

    All Eakins needs to do now is sub Belov in for NShultz and they might have a chance to win tonight.

    Go Oilers!!

    *clap, clap*

    Apparently PHO is just putting Yandle out while the rest of the team go shopping at WEM.

  19. Dee Dee says:

    VOR,

    Main difference between the two streaks you mentioned is that the Oilers were the benefactors of the Stinko Bettman loser point which skews the numbers, and the fact that it was two different era’s. I’m pretty sure the old format was a lot more balanced in East/West play, there were fewer teams competing for the 16 playoff spots too, making it easier to get in.

  20. JonyPro says:

    Woodguy:As good as Marincin has been, Klef might pass him like a 4th liner passes Nick Shultz on the outside.

    That made me LOL….watching Shultz the Elder play makes me sad some nights.

  21. Lowetide says:

    VOR:
    LT,

    In the last game day post you said,

    “I remember the Canucks from the beginning, and it’s been a strange and unusual journey for the team. At the expansion draft they gathered good players and tried to compete right away, and won 24 games in year one (respectable). Vancouver has had ups and downs, but they’ve never been truly bad as a team, not really.”

    I have been thinking about that ever since. It sort of raises the question of how do we define bad? Like you I was once a Canuck fan. I confess in 82 I was still rooting for them. But I seemed to remember from my exercise of looking for comparable streaks to the Oilers that post spring 82 the Canucks had some lean years. Here are the numbers:

    .469, .456, .369, .369, .413, .369, .463, .400. .406 = an average winning percentage of .413 over 9 years. Remarkably they made 5 trips to the playoffs.

    Meanwhile since spring .2006 the Oilers are:

    .433, .537, .518, .378, .378, .451, .469, .346 = an average winning percentage of .442 over 8 years. They have made no trips to the playoffs.

    So are you saying the Oilers aren’t bad or that you and I are deceived by the Canucks free passes to the playoffs into thinking they weren’t stinko, epically bad?

    The Canucks were never good enough to contend without crazy luck and glorious coaching, but they were never bad enough to miss the playoffs consistently. Kind of like the Oilers 1997-06.

  22. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: No.,

    MacT offered the 7th overall +. and Gillis said no.

    As reported by either Rishaug or Dreger.

    That’s why the Oilers table looked stunned when the NJD deal went down because EDM offered more.

    https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/351431739396194304‎

    Here is the tweet I remember. It’s possible he did a follow up, but I can’t find it.

  23. mustang says:

    If we have a chance at Ekbald we better take him, he’s what we need. MInd you Nick Ritchie and Jake Virtanen are interesting players, would have to trade down and add a second rounder. If MacT has a chance at Ekbald and doesn’t draft him, I would consider that to be bold.

  24. Caramel Obvious says:

    G Money,

    Marc Methot has never been considered a first pairing defensemen. Or perhaps I should say, that if you consider Marc Methot a first pairing defensemen you need to reconsider your definition.

    All of these labels, #1D, #2C, are meaningless. They don’t tell us anything important about the player, and they mislead us concerning how we conceive of the game. It gives the concept of quality of competition a mystical quality that begs definition but is never defined.

    The fact that Methot played next to Karlsson doesn’t tell us anything about the player.

  25. GriffCity says:

    We should’t want either of these bums. Couturier had a good rookie campaign but is soft and has under performed since then. Coburn is no good. Sure he’s tall and rangy but he is slow of foot and not great with the puck, plus he’s a pussy for a bug guy. I would hate it if the Oilers gave up anything to land these plugs. 100% absolutely a bad move, the only ones who would be happy with a trade for these guys would be Philly. They would love to send these guys out of town and get any sort of return. They would flop in Edmonton as well. Please don’t trade for these guys, they are trending downward.

  26. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy: I’m not sold and giving up Kelf for 2 years of Coburn (although if it also brings Couturier its a slam dunk)

    As much as I don’t like putting kids in over their heads, I’m dying to see Klef up and can
    ‘t wait for N.Shultz to be traded.

    Todd Nelson called him a “horse” the other day and said he’s going to play him 25 minutes a night.

    He’s very physical in removing the player from the puck, breaking up the cycle, and making a good first quick pass, and he’s doing it against men in the AHL.

    That is an oasis in the desert that is the LHD on the Oilers.

    As good as Marincin has been, Klef might pass him like a 4th liner passes Nick Shultz on the outside.

    I am with you on that WG.

    We have to get a peek of Klef in the NHL and see what happens. I see no reason why he won’t get into a 10-15 games post break.

  27. Caramel Obvious says:

    Oh, and the Oilers should absolutely trade the #1 pick. I don’t see how there are two sides to this coin.

    They need star-type players. And they need them now. Trading the #1 pick is the only chance they have of getting the player they need.

  28. flyfish1168 says:

    The Oilers are in a no win situation. Bad decisions shouldn’t lead to more bad decisions. If we were to trade for Coburn & Couturier does anyone really think we would be in the playoffs 2014-15 season? I don’t believe we would be. The west is to strong and most of there players are in their prime. I believe if we draft Ekblad or Reinhardt in 2 yrs we would possible be contending and the other western teams cycle will start to be coming down. Ekblad with Nurse or Yak with Reinhardt. Mmm strong top 6

    I don’t want to mortgage the future with any of our core. Eberle is sign for 6 for 6 and that will be a value ontract in 2-3 yrs and then we can revisit trading him then. That goes with Yak if he signs within the next 1year. We have been patient for this long we might was well go the full way with a proper rebuild. That started with our 1st overalls and now or farm teams echl and ahl teams.

  29. goldenchild says:

    Caramel Obvious: Oh, and the Oilers should absolutely trade the #1 pick. I don’t see how there are two sides to this coin. They need star-type players. And they need them now. Trading the #1 pick is the only chance they have of getting the player they need.

    Agree with this, especially considering there do not seem to be franchise players available, you do not need a 18 year old defenceman you need a a 25 year old one, trade the pick, add to it if needed and find someone to play 25 mins for the next 7 years.

  30. flyfish1168 says:

    goldenchild: Agree with this, especially considering there do not seem to be franchise players available, you do not need a 18 year old defenceman you need a a 25 year old one, trade the pick, add to it if needed and find someone to play 25 mins for the next 7 years.

    A player you are describing will cost in the neighborhood f our 1st pick, a core player and a top prospect. Steep price to pay plus it will bring Cap issues and problems sooner than later

  31. icecastles says:

    GriffCity:
    …We should’t want either of these bums…
    …soft…
    …under performed…
    …Coburn is no good…
    …he is slow…
    …not great with the puck…
    …he’s a pussy…
    …these plugs…
    …100% absolutely a bad move…
    …They would flop in Edmonton as well…
    …they are trending downward…

    It sounds like you’re still undecided about their worth.

  32. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    PHX has been shitty latelyand now Hanzel is so hurt right now.

    They are 3-7-0 in their last 10 and the last 2 games without Hanzel they lost at home to TOR and on Wednesday in CAL.

    This game is very winnable.

    EDM HomeFen 48.9% (24th in NHL)
    PHX RoadFen 49.2% (16th in NHL)

    Another game that’s close on paper, but I think the Oilers have an edge with Hazel out, he’s the best forward on PHX and he owns EDM Dmen souls on the boards.

    One big issue with the Oilers has been the 21-19 pairing who have been sub 40% corgis.

    Against the Dys they turned it around and put up a58%, which is a very positive development.

    I know that the OIlers were trailing most of the game and that will pump their corgi a bit, but I’ll take what I can get at this point.

    All Eakins needs to do now is sub Belov in for NShultz and they might have a chance to win tonight.

    Go Oilers!!

    *clap, clap*

    So you’re saying there’s a chance!

  33. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers: https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/351431739396194304‎

    Here is the tweet I remember.It’s possible he did a follow up, but I can’t find it.

    Your link is broken

  34. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Taylor Fedun, Anton Belov

    I have these two reversed. I like Fedun a lot, but the upside (on both of these guys really) is limited at this point and his NHL debut (the goal fanfare = awesome, I won’t take that away, no way, no how) wasn’t fantastic:

    http://www.extraskater.com/player/1211/taylor-fedun

    Of course, he was stuck with the loathsome 15

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1852&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

    Eakins has this disgusting habit of putting rooks with 15 for “veteran presence”

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1893&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

    gross.

    If 15 has some value as a “talkie mentor” I’m guessing that can be done on the bench and in practice. On the ice, I don’t see this as helping and it sure makes the rooks look bad.

  35. Hammers says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Oh, and the Oilers should absolutely trade the #1 pick.I don’t see how there are two sides to this coin.

    They need star-type players.And they need them now.Trading the #1 pick is the only chance they have of getting the player they need.

    The only way you get a star type player is the #1 + a player (Gags maybe) . Get the BPA and do it .

  36. RexLibris says:

    If the trade offer were the 1st rounder (be it 1st overall or 2nd) and Gagner and another defensive prospect outside of Klefbom or Marincin for Couturier and Coburn I think the Oilers have to make that deal.

    Not sure that Philadelphia does, but then did they have to deal Carter and Richards both at the draft? Did they have to sign Bryzgalov to a 14 year deal?

    I’m reminded of Jack Nicholson’s line in As Good As It Gets when asked about writing women’s characters so well “I think of a man and I take away reason and accountability”.

    When it comes to Philadelphia, nothing is unpossible.

  37. Woodguy says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    G Money,

    Marc Methot has never been considered a first pairing defensemen.Or perhaps I should say, that if you consider Marc Methot a first pairing defensemen you need to reconsider your definition.

    All of these labels, #1D, #2C, are meaningless.They don’t tell us anything important about the player, and they mislead us concerning how we conceive of the game.It gives the concept of quality of competition a mystical quality that begs definition but is never defined.

    The fact that Methot played next to Karlsson doesn’t tell us anything about the player.

    Many smart people think that Eric T is off the mark with his disdain for QC.

    I think we just haven’t learned how to measure it properly.

    Eric is one of the best an his writing has taught me more than anyone, but playing 10 min vs Toews is different than playing 10 min vs Handzeus. It just is.

    The TOI vs various players blend so the overall number looks like there isn’t much difference, but that doesn’t mean that they have equal ice time.

    What is means is that we haven’t been able to break out the tough minute results vs less tough results and compare them.

    We have to blend results due to the information we get.

    The next step in Fancy Stats is breaking the info down into smaller parts to get deeper into it all.

    Molecules and atoms existed before we were able to measure them, and this is similar in that our tools are too blunt to get to the smaller parts for examination.

  38. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: So you’re saying there’s a chance!

    I think the Oilers win 4-2 tonight.

    Book it!!

  39. Woodguy says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    The fact that Methot played next to Karlsson doesn’t tell us anything about the player.

    I agree with that wholeheartedly.

  40. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ekblad and Nurse (let’s say they are both here) need to go back to the OHL. No question about it. Playing both of them next year (with, let’s face it marincin, j. schultz and probably after the all-star break Klefbom) catastrophe.

    Trading down is an interesting idea. get Draisaitl at 6 say and get another pick (late 1st rounder) and something… hmmm

    ———
    “I’ll say this: Reinhart and Bennett are similar players to what the Oilers already have, and if they move down to 5-7 there should be a power forward available.”

    I don’t know much about Bennett, but TSN last night described him as being a Doug Gilmour acolyte and couldn’t stop talking about his “competitiveness” etc. THey might take a long look at him down the stretch.

    Either way… back to jr!!

    ———–
    Ha! funny to see my tweet there… but it’s so true. I’ve warded off serious Oiler depression so far this season, but losing Hemsky is going be really, really, really shitty. I may cry.

  41. Woodguy says:

    Just listened to Bob McKenzie.

    He didn’t come right out and say it, but he intimated that the Oilers should trade their pick if they want help right away.

    Sounded very meh about the quality of the draft.

    In other new I think Ekblad’s best comparable is Karl Alzner. I’ll have more on that later.

  42. Pretendergast says:

    Generally not thrilled with this draft, no clear number 1 and nowhere near the percieved depth as last year. All of the top picks have something we need but lack something else (reinhart, size, ekblad, footspeed). These kinds of drafts define organizations. Find highest value and develop develop develop. If we miss on our pick we wander the desert forever. Theres value in the top picks but if you can give the first overall for erhoff, id honestly do it, the value of that pick is overrated and theres too much risk in the pick.

  43. DeadmanWaking says:

    Woodguy:
    This game is very winnable.

    New rule: First thirteen posts on the game day thread must not mention the game day game, lest the “temporary” standing-room-only wooden perches now encroaching the lower bowl–the rough-hewed splintery ones with the drink holders pegged so weirdly far apart that every sip resembles a roadside sobriety test–became mandatory fixtures in the new arena.

  44. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 39s
    Breaking news: San Jose Sharks have signed Patrick Marleau and Joe Thornton to 3-year extensions.

  45. Woodguy says:

    I really, really like T.J. Brodie.

    I also hear that Burke really likes Reinhart.

    If the Oiler draft ahead of the Flames I wonder if you tell Burke that you like Reinhart, but you like Brodie more.

    This assumes that Ekblad is gone.

    Someone suggest the above for GIo, and as much as I love Gio, he only has 2 seasons left under contract and that isn’t enough in terms of value.

  46. Woodguy says:

    DeadmanWaking: New rule: First thirteen posts on the game day thread must not mention the game day game, lest the “temporary” standing-room-only wooden perches now encroaching the lower bowl–the rough-hewed splintery ones with the drink holders pegged so weirdly far apart that every sip resembles a roadside sobriety test–became mandatory fixtures in the new arena.

    Seconded.

  47. oilersfan says:

    woodguy, you would trade the number one overall pick for TJ Brodie or Gio? you are nuts

  48. oilersfan says:

    Karl Alzner did not have anywhere near a PPG in his draft year

    Only Doughty and Petro have Ekblad’s ppg in their draft year, not even Jones did.

    Jones is playing 20 minutes a night on a .500 team as a rookie
    Trouba is playing 23 minutes last night on a .500 team in his draft plus 1
    Ryan Murray is plaing 20 minutes a night on a team 6 games over .500 in his draft plus 1

    I can’t understand why you all think Ekblad is going to need 4-5 years. He will play in the NHL next year as a 4-5 guy and in two years as a 3-4 and in 3 years as a 1-2. then the next ten years as a Drew Doughty like #1. not sure where any of you think you will get anyone else that good with that pick.

    As for the alleged skating issues, how did he make the junior team that had to play on the larger ice surface, and come home to rave reviews for his performance, if he has skating issues?

    all the scouts say he HAD skating issues but has worked hard and is now an “A-” skater according to NHL central scouting.

    I see people here comparing Ekblad to Chris Phillips or Brent Seabrook. Well if that is the lower ceiling I am fine with that. But some scouts compare him to Rob Blake, Drew Doughty, and Chris Pronger. I don’t see how going after anyone else that is at all available makes any sense when looking at the opportunity of drafting and keeping ekblad.

  49. Doomoil says:

    GriffCity:
    We should’t want either of these bums. Couturier had a good rookie campaign but is soft and has under performed since then. Coburn is no good. Sure he’s tall and rangy but he is slow of foot and not great with the puck, plus he’s a pussy for a bug guy. I would hate it if the Oilers gave up anything to land these plugs.100% absolutely a bad move, the only ones who would be happy with a trade for these guys would be Philly. They would love to send these guys out of town and get any sort of return. They would flop in Edmonton as well. Please don’t trade for these guys, they are trending downward.

    This is outstanding and a really well thought out post.

  50. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan:
    woodguy, you would trade the number one overall pick for TJ Brodie or Gio? you are nuts

    I didn’t say I’d trade for Gio.

    I didn’t say I’d trade the first overall

    Well done.

  51. Caramel Obvious says:

    Woodguy: Many smart people think that Eric T is off the mark with his disdain for QC.

    I think we just haven’t learned how to measure it properly.

    Eric is one of the best an his writing has taught me more than anyone, but playing 10 min vs Toews is different than playing 10 min vs Handzeus.It just is.

    The TOI vs various players blend so the overall number looks like there isn’t much difference, but that doesn’t mean that they have equal ice time.

    What is means is that we haven’t been able to break out the tough minute results vs less tough results and compare them.

    We have to blend results due to the information we get.

    The next step in Fancy Stats is breaking the info down into smaller parts to get deeper into it all.

    Molecules and atoms existed before we were able to measure them, and this is similar in that our tools are too blunt to get to the smaller parts for examination.

    I agree. However, in the abscence of the next step of fancy stats we should not imbue quality of competition with mystical qualities as if a #1D was somehow different in kind from a #3 D. It’s the same game played against, largely, the same quality of competition. And insofar as there are meaningful differences in competition my hypothesis is that the differences are linear and not exponential. In order to justify all the talk about quality of competition the differences have to be exponential.

    The second point is that we don’t talk nearly enough about quality of teammates which should matter so much more than competition. While over the course of the season you play against everyone, you always play with the same teammates, for better or for worse. Breaking out whose dragging who around, or down, should be the next step in fancy stats. It is much more important than quality of competition, in my opinion.

  52. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan,

    Karl Alzner did not have anywhere near a PPG in his draft year

    Currently Ekblad is in on 19% of his team’s goals while being on PP1

    Alzner was in on 14% of his team’s goals and was not on PP1.

    I think Ekblad probably has more offense than Alzner, but I wouldn’t bet on how much more.

    Objects in the mirror may appear closer than they actually are.

  53. oilersfan says:

    Woodguy: I didn’t say I’d trade for Gio.I didn’t say I’d trade the first overallWell done.

    what are you proposing then? You say “well done” but it is less than clear what you suggest the Oilers do to get Brodie or Gio.

  54. Woodguy says:

    Caramel Obvious: I agree.However, in the abscence of the next step of fancy stats we should not imbue quality of competition with mystical qualities as if a #1D was somehow different in kind from a #3 D.It’s the same game played against, largely, the same quality of competition.And insofar as there are meaningful differences in competition my hypothesis is that the differences are linear and not exponential.In order to justify all the talk about quality of competition the differences have to be exponential.

    The second point is that we don’t talk nearly enough about quality of teammates which should matter so much more than competition.While over the course of the season you play against everyone, you always play with the same teammates, for better or for worse.Breaking out whose dragging who around, or down, should be the next step in fancy stats.It is much more important than quality of competition, in my opinion.

    I agree with all of that.

    I think we are on the same page, but I have more time for players who play tougher minutes.

    Its just a matter of figuring it out, and looking at extraskater or BTN isn’t going to always give you the best picture.

  55. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan: what are you proposing then? You say “well done” but it is less than clear what you suggest the Oilers do to get Brodie or Gio.

    I said:

    If the Oiler draft ahead of the Flames I wonder if you tell Burke that you like Reinhart, but you like Brodie more.
    This assumes that Ekblad is gone.

    If Ekblad is gone, then the Oilers don’t have the first overall.

    I also said:

    Someone suggest the above for GIo, and as much as I love Gio, he only has 2 seasons left under contract and that isn’t enough in terms of value.

    So I’m not even trading the 2nd overall for Gio, let alone first.

    If Gio was under contract for 4-5 years I’d probably do it though.

    I think I’d trade the 2nd for Brodie, but not 100% on that.

    He’s a pretty complete Dman and right at the right age.

    A hair small, but doesn’t play that way.

  56. oilersfan says:

    Woodguy,

    Woodguy, I respect you as a very smart hockey fan. I have a hard time understanding why you are Poopooing the Oilers taking Ekblad and keeping him. The GM of barrie says Ekblad is the best dman Barrie has ever had, despite them having Pietrangelo.

    I think we can agree Pietrangelo is essentially unavailable for almost any price.

    He made the NHL in his draft plus 2 and within two years is considered a top 5-10 NHL D.

    How else, other than drafting Ekblad, do you propose the Oilers ever get a top 5-10 NHL D?

    My proposal is to draft him and either keep him as a 5-6 like Jones/Trouba/Murray, and try to trade Klefbom for Ehrhofff to fill the #1LD hole while we wait for Nurse to develop. This ,makes us both more competitive next year and within 3 years have a legit top pairing d team to go with our first line of forwards.

    Gio in his prime is a far cry below Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc, and Brodie is a far cry below Gio.

    So, if you are saying you would trade the second overall for Brodie, I say you would be the only one on earth who would do it and BUrke would accommodate you with a large smile on his face.

  57. Pouzar says:

    oilersfan:
    Woodguy,

    Woodguy, I respect you as a very smart hockey fan. I have a hard time understanding why you are Poopooing the Oilers taking Ekblad and keeping him. The GM of barrie says Ekblad is the best dman Barrie has ever had, despite them having Pietrangelo.

    I think we can agree Pietrangelo is essentially unavailable for almost any price.

    He made the NHL in his draft plus 2 and within two years is considered a top 5-10 NHL D.

    How else, other than drafting Ekblad, do you propose the Oilers ever get a top 5-10 NHL D?

    My proposal is to draft him and either keep him as a 5-6 like Jones/Trouba/Murray, and try to trade Klefbom for Ehrhofff to fill the #1LD hole while we wait for Nurse to develop. This ,makes us both more competitive next year and within 3 years havea legit top pairing d team to go with our first line of forwards.

    This is where I am at.

    That way…If re-build 1.0 ( Hall, Nuge, Ebs, Yak) fails we can fall back on
    re-build 2.0 ( Nurse, Ekblad, McDavid)!!!!!!!!!!

  58. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan:
    Woodguy,

    Woodguy, I respect you as a very smart hockey fan. I have a hard time understanding why you are Poopooing the Oilers taking Ekblad and keeping him. The GM of barrie says Ekblad is the best dman Barrie has ever had, despite them having Pietrangelo.

    I think we can agree Pietrangelo is essentially unavailable for almost any price.

    He made the NHL in his draft plus 2 and within two years is considered a top 5-10 NHL D.

    How else, other than drafting Ekblad, do you propose the Oilers ever get a top 5-10 NHL D?

    My proposal is to draft him and either keep him as a 5-6 like Jones/Trouba/Murray, and try to trade Klefbom for Ehrhofff to fill the #1LD hole while we wait for Nurse to develop. This ,makes us both more competitive next year and within 3 years havea legit top pairing d team to go with our first line of forwards.

    Gio in his prime is a far cry below Pietrangelo, Doughty, etc, and Brodie is a far cry below Gio.

    So, if you are saying you would trade the second overall for Brodie, I say you would be the only one on earth who would do it and BUrke would accommodate you with a large smile on his face.

    Because I’m old and have heard those stories about many Dmen who don’t turn into Doughty and Pietrangelo.

    Heard it about Alzner, Bogosian, Hedman, Larsson etc. etc.

    All fine NHL Dmen (Lalrsson i still struggling though), but not the 2nd coming of anyone.

    I remember when it was a slam dunk that Eric Johnson was the next Pronger. There was no question about it.

    The truth is that you can’t project that on to any player and I’ve read enough about Ekblad’s foot speed and being dominate physically to make me wary that he’s a slam dunk to be elite in the NHL.

    The other reason is that the Oilers window is now, not 3-4-5 years from now.

    Eblad may be better than “X” Dman 4-5 years from now, but that doesn’t help the next 1-3 years.

    I also think that Marincin, Klefbom and Nurse are project to be reasonable to good to very good NHLers and another young Dman is the last thing the Oilers need to draft.

  59. Rondo says:

    Re: Richard Sherman

    I agree with Jason Whitlock

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6jc82POvX0

    Also,most sportswriters bend over backwards telling us Sherman is a genius, articulate or as TSN said the most articulate athlete in pro sports, and lets not forget he went to Stanford.

    He got into Stanford because he plays Football. Not for his marks.

    Would sportswriters go to this extent if the athlete was white. I’m guessing no. The reason these writers do it is because they really think deep down he is a thug, but they want to appear as morally superior.

    Why do we need to know he went to Stanford? A little honesty please.

  60. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan,

    Also, thanks for the kind words.

    Sorry I was a dink, but I didn’t suggest the two things you said I did.

    Also,

    I’m a dink.

  61. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    I really, really like T.J. Brodie.

    I also hear that Burke really likes Reinhart.

    If the Oiler draft ahead of the Flames I wonder if you tell Burke that you like Reinhart, but you like Brodie more.

    This assumes that Ekblad is gone.

    Someone suggest the above for GIo, and as much as I love Gio, he only has 2 seasons left under contract and that isn’t enough in terms of value.

    Hell to the yes.

    Brodie is a terrific young defender and there would be gnashing of teeth in Calgary if Burke traded him to the Oilers in order to move up at the draft.

    2nd overall for Brodie and perhaps the 5th, though? 2nd overall for Brodie straight across?

    I’ve opined about appealing to Burke’s love of toughness and blueliners at the draft if it means addressing the Oilers’ immediate needs, and Backlund and Brodie both fall into those categories (2C and 1D).

  62. oilersfan says:

    fwiw the reason I like Ekblad better than Larsson or Eric Johnson is that neither of those two played in major cdn junior. I think playing in the other leagues are far less predictive , especially Larsson playing against men at 16, there was no way to evaluate how that play would transfer over.

    Ekblad we can compare to Doughty, Jones, Pietrangelo, etc. because of the league he is in and the quality of competition of his peers.

    For all the legitimate criticism of taking Johnson, that was 7 years ago and since then guys like Doughty, Trouba, Murray and Jones have proven it is not a bad thing to pick a dman in the top3. Johnson may have turned out much better if he hadn’t had that golf cart accident, too.

    Cam Fowler should have gone there too.

    As we see with Yak, forwards can take their sweet time to develop, too.

    Also, the equally key component to my argument is to trade Klefbom for Ehrhoff. I think this gives us a #1 d while we wait for Ekblad and Nurse to develop, in fact giving 4 real NHL top 4 dmen. Sign Nikitan to play with Ekblad or send him to junior with Nurse and play Fedun with Nikitan, with Marincin in the AHL for depth and development.

  63. Pouzar says:

    Rondo:
    Re:Richard Sherman

    I agree with Jason Whitlock

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6jc82POvX0

    Also,most sportswriters bend over backwards telling us Sherman is a genius, articulate or as TSN said the most articulate athlete in pro sports, and lets not forget he went to Stanford.

    He got into Stanford because he plays Football. Not for his marks.

    Would sportswriters go to this extent if the athlete was white. I’m guessing no. The reason these writers do it is because they really think deep down he is a thug, but they want to appear as morally superior.

    Why do we need to know he went to Stanford?A little honesty please.

    Sherman had a 4.2 high School GPA and Graduated Stanford with a 3.9 GPA.
    I think he did ok in the marks dept.

  64. oilersfan says:

    RexLibris,

    so Rex you would trade # 2 overall for Brodie and Backlund?

    The thing I hate about these types of moves are , the elite players are the hard things to get. I am so opposed to trading 1 elite player for 3 ok ones. the oielrs couldn’t trade Petry and j Schultz, two legit second pairing dmen, for Drew Doughty or PIetrangelo. LA and St. Louis would laugh at us as they hang up the phone.

    The Oilers can’t trade Gagner and Hemsky, two second liners, for Crosby or Stamkos.

    1 elite player is worth more than 2 or 4 secondary players.

    I say draft the elite player with the high pick and let him develop. Use future first and second rounders and the picks we get from trading Hemsky and Smyth for filling second line center and second pairing dmen.

  65. VOR says:

    Dee/Dee,

    You are right in your contention that the Oilers look better because of Bettman points. Their winning record in the last season falls to .405 when you remove Bettman points and thus below the Canucks .413 over nine seasons.

    In fact it is arguable that the modern era Oilers play a much harder schedule than the old era Canucks which I think may have been your other point. This would mean that almost all of the perceived difference (somewhere between 96 and 100%) is down to the era the Canucks playing in allowing them easier access to the playoffs. Maybe the tiny breaks and brilliant coaching Lowetide talks about above really is the entire difference. In a sport where somewhere between 30 and 50% (depends on source) outcomes is luck maybe it is just the Canucks luck was better.

    Yet I remember them as such a gutsy team, always finding a way. That would go to Lowetides point that the better comparable is the late nineties through 2005-06 Oilers.

  66. Rondo says:

    Pouzar,

    I can give facts but you may not like the tone of the article.

    http://www.vdare.com/articles/richard-sherman-and-the-soft-bigotry-of-sportswriters-expectations

    Only reason I mention Sherman is because Lowetide is talking about him today

  67. Pouzar says:

    oilersfan:
    RexLibris,

    so Rex you would trade # 2 overall for Brodie and Backlund?

    The thing I hate about these types of moves are , the elite players are the hard things to get. I am so opposed to trading 1 elite player for 3 ok ones. the oielrs couldn’t trade Petry and j Schultz, two legit second pairing dmen, for Drew Doughty or PIetrangelo. LA and St. Louis would laugh at us as they hang up the phone.

    The Oilers can’t trade Gagner and Hemsky, two second liners, for Crosby or Stamkos.

    1 elite player is worth more than 2 or 4 secondary players.

    I say draft the elite player with the high pick and let him develop. Use future first and second rounders and the picks we get from trading Hemsky and Smyth for filling second line center and second pairing dmen.

    Agreed. I think some people are not willing to admit how far behind we are in this rebuild.
    To say our window is now is folly imo. We are knee deep in the “get good players” part of
    LT mantra ( get good/keep good). Keep the pick, draft Ekblad. Keep the pick, Draft McDavid.
    Sprinkle in actual NHL players in the bottom six, sign a goalie and a d-man or two. Then maybe
    in 3 years we are battling for a playoff spot.

  68. OilClog says:

    If I’m trading the 1st I’m looking for a top pair D for 6-7yrs. If that’s not available I keep the pick.

    If we pick up Ekblad.

    Who shakes loose?

    Petry, Jultz, Maricin, Ference, Nurse, Ekblad, Klef, Fedun, Gernat, Simpson, Musil, Davidson..

    There is a ton of value, let’s hope MacT can properly figure out how to best maximize this group.

    Maybe MacT can package up some magic when he sends Hemsky to Ottawa for a nice little return.

  69. OilClog says:

    In my world though, Hemsky is an Oiler for life. Too bad the club is so broken that we can’t keep real players.

  70. G Money says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    G Money,

    Marc Methot has never been considered a first pairing defensemen.Or perhaps I should say, that if you consider Marc Methot a first pairing defensemen you need to reconsider your definition.

    All of these labels, #1D, #2C, are meaningless.They don’t tell us anything important about the player, and they mislead us concerning how we conceive of the game.It gives the concept of quality of competition a mystical quality that begs definition but is never defined.

    The fact that Methot played next to Karlsson doesn’t tell us anything about the player.

    I understand your disdain for the concept of 1D, 2C etc, but my eyes tell me a very very different story. We will have to agree to disagree on that one. Probably Woodguy’s point is the correct one, we just don’t yet have the analytical tools to sufficiently dissect QOC.

    Methot paired with Karlsson as the first pairing was portrayed as a coach’s statement prior to the season. Assuming that to be true, that’s probably the gold standard as to what actually consists a first pairing (notwithstanding you don’t believe such a thing exists).

  71. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan,

    Another question you’d need to answer: Is Ekblad better than Nurse?

    You mentioned Pietrangelo.

    Nurse’s pt/gm is better than Pietrangelo in their draft +1 years.

    Nurse didn’t play PP1 in his draft year so he didn’t put up quite as much offense as Jones.

    If he had played PP1 it would have been much closer.

    Some draftniks like Proman say there isn’t much difference between Jones and Nurse, and he has Nurse as the 7th best player not in the NHL, ahead of Ekblad.

    I think it’s very reasonable to project Nurse ahead of Ekblad as NHLERS especially with the difference in skating.

    You want Pietrangelo?

    Oilers have one that is projecting like him, and he’s faster and a year closer to the NHL than Ekblad.

  72. denny33 says:

    JonyPro,

    That made me LOL….watching Shultz the Elder play makes me sad some nights.
    *************************************************************************************

    30 year old Chris Higgins (Vancouver) against soon to be 35 year old
    Andrew Ference in a foot race the other night….ouch.

    Any chance we will be talking about A.Ference in 12 months the way we talk about N. Schultz now?

  73. icecastles says:

    Rondo: Would sportswriters go to this extent if the athlete was white. I’m guessing no. The reason these writers do it is because they really think deep down he is a thug, but they want to appear as morally superior.

    I love when subtly racist people look around and see racism everywhere except their own minds. What did Freud call that? Projecting?

    Drifting away from the GDT to talk about Oilers strategy and procurements?
    It’s what we do every day.

    Drifting away from the Oilers to talk about other teams or hockey in general?
    Sure, if it doesn’t totally derail the conversation.

    Doing a 180 from the conversation to talk about a completely different sport and try to turn it into a race debate?
    You might be pushing the threshold there.

  74. RexLibris says:

    oilersfan,

    Brodie would become the best defenseman on the Oilers. He is a top-pairing blueliner, maybe not in the elite class of Ekman-Larsson or Drew Doughty, but he is very, very good and at the right age and contract range.

    Backlund becomes your 2C right away, no waiting.

    This team’s window for a Stanley Cup isn’t right now, but their window to at least become relevant in the NHL is.

    If the deal were something like the 1st or 2nd overall pick (essentially Ekblad), Gagner and Khaira for Backlund, Brodie and the Flames 1st round pick you make that deal before Burke has a chance to sober up. If it is Backlund, Brodie and the Flames 2nd round pick you stall and look for better offers.

    Either way, the Oilers need to address those areas and in this case they would be acquiring very good players to address two immediate roster needs at the cost of two assets that are either delayed (draft pick) or redundant (Gagner).

  75. oilersfan says:

    woodguy, what if (gasp) the Oilers had 2 top pairing dmen, either playing together for 28 mins a night like Pietro/Boo or Pronger/Niedermayer, or with not quite as good but still very good complementatry guys, so Nurse with J Schultz (L and R) and Ekblad with Ehrhoff (until Ehrhoff is too old then maybe Marincin or even Gernat can go in there.) those two pairings could play 50 minutes in all situations.

    I guess my thoughts are sure they may have too many dmen (Petry not listed above, or play Petry with Nurse and trade J Schultz), so trade one for the big 2 c they may need.

    IF it were me I would keep Gagner for a year. this has to be the lowest value he has had since the day he was drafted.

    he really needs a big winger to play with him. would love penner but of course Mact hates him.

    not sure who else they could get.

    rex, not sure if there is a GM in the league who would want Gagner less than Burke. I wouldn’t trade Ekblad straight up for those two let alone add Gagner.

  76. Rondo says:

    icecastles,

    Not a 180

    Jungle Jim Hunter. We’ll talk about Richard Sherman, and sideline interviews.

    On Lowetide today

  77. Lois Lowe says:

    I think that Remberte Browne really hit the nail on the head about Sherman and Stanford.
    http://grantland.com/the-triangle/stanford-man-richard-sherman-and-the-thug-athlete-narrative/

  78. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: Hell to the yes.

    Brodie is a terrific young defender and there would be gnashing of teeth in Calgary if Burke traded him to the Oilers in order to move up at the draft.

    2nd overall for Brodie and perhaps the 5th, though? 2nd overall for Brodie straight across?

    I’ve opined about appealing to Burke’s love of toughness and blueliners at the draft if it means addressing the Oilers’ immediate needs, and Backlund and Brodie both fall into those categories (2C and 1D).

    Brodie +? For the 2nd.

    Not convinced Brodie is the one I’d do if for, be he’s a hell of a hockey player.

  79. GriffCity says:

    Doomoil,

    Just calling it like I see it pal. If you feel differently please fell free to share your knowledge.

  80. jb says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Agreed, which is why we need to pretend the upcoming draft is awesome, and we have every intention of making that pick.

  81. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    The other reason is that the Oilers window is now, not 3-4-5 years from now.
    ********************************************************************************
    How can the window be now – when RNH can’t shave and is 20?

    Versus Thornton, Kopitar, Sedins, Backes, etc, etc…

    Nurse is a few years away from developing…..Klefbom has not even seen the NHL yet either.

    If we can’t agree on our window for – truly – competing for a cup we are not going to agree on the Oilers development plans.

  82. Woodguy says:

    OilClog:
    If I’m trading the 1st I’m looking for a top pair D for 6-7yrs. If that’s not available I keep the pick.

    If we pick up Ekblad.

    Who shakes loose?

    Petry, Jultz, Maricin, Ference, Nurse, Ekblad, Klef, Fedun, Gernat, Simpson, Musil, Davidson..

    There is a ton of value, let’s hope MacT can properly figure out how to best maximize this group.

    Maybe MacT can package up some magic when he sends Hemsky to Ottawa for a nice little return.

    You don’t know that Ekblad is better than Marincin, Klef, or Nurse.

    Draft position is one barometer, but it’s only one.

    You are projecting a lot onto a 17 year old.

    A very good 17 year old who is probably a lock to have a good Nhl career, but past that it’s all guess work and crystal balls.

  83. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan:
    woodguy, what if (gasp) the Oilers had 2 top pairing dmen, either playing together for 28 mins a night like Pietro/Boo or Pronger/Niedermayer, or with not quite as good but still very good complementatry guys, so Nurse with J Schultz (L and R) and Ekblad with Ehrhoff (until Ehrhoff is too old then maybe Marincin or even Gernat can go in there.) those two pairings could play 50 minutes in all situations.

    I guess my thoughts are sure they may have too many dmen (Petry not listed above, or play Petry with Nurse and trade J Schultz), so trade one for the big 2 c they may need.

    IF it were me I would keep Gagner for a year. this has to be the lowest value he has had since the day he was drafted.

    he really needs a big winger to play with him. would love penner but of course Mact hates him.

    not sure who else they could get.

    rex, not sure if there is a GM in the league who would want Gagner less than Burke. I wouldn’t trade Ekblad straight up for those two let alone add Gagner.

    We’re did I even mention Gagner?

    Stay on point.

    I agree that you can’t enough good Dmen.

    I am convinced that the Oilers waiting and hoping that Ekblad to turn into one wastes the rest of the roster.

    Bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush, especially when you have Nurse and Klef coming soon.

  84. Woodguy says:

    denny33:
    Woodguy,

    The other reason is that the Oilers window is now, not 3-4-5 years from now.
    ********************************************************************************
    How can the window be now – when RNH can’t shave and is 20?

    Versus Thornton, Kopitar, Sedins, Backes, etc, etc…

    Nurse is a few years away from developing…..Klefbom has not even seen the NHL yet either.

    If we can’t agree on our window for – truly – competing for a cup we are not going to agree on the Oilers development plans.

    Because the toughest positions to fill, skilled forwards are filled and they can compete with the rest of the NHL.

    The awful D and bad 2C are what’s holding the team back and those positions can be filled without waiting.

    There is no reason to wait, especially if you are waiting on a 17 year old who may or not be too slow to an elite NHL Dman who physically dominates teenagers as a key component to his game.

  85. Pouzar says:

    TSNRyanRishaug: Nick Schultz and Luke Gazdic scratched healthy tonite. Eakins says it’s it punitive, wants to get other guys in. Potter and Joensu in.

  86. oilersfan says:

    woodguy my comment about gagner was for rex, as noted when I said “rex” then went on to comment about gagner. pay attention you dink lol

  87. icecastles says:

    Rondo,

    Oops, my bad. Didn’t see that.

    Can I still call it a 120? ;)

  88. G Money says:

    Pouzar:
    TSNRyanRishaug: Nick Schultz and Luke Gazdic scratched healthy tonite. Eakins says it’s it punitive, wants to get other guys in. Potter and Joensu in.

    So much for the ballyhooed Nultz showcase.

    Or maybe – sadly – the best way to showcase Nultz is to not let him play and hope that reputation suffices.

    To paraphrase the old saying: “Better to remain benched and have other GMs think the player is useless rather than actually play him and remove all doubt.”

  89. Woodguy says:

    Pouzar:
    TSNRyanRishaug: Nick Schultz and Luke Gazdic scratched healthy tonite. Eakins says it’s it punitive, wants to get other guys in. Potter and Joensu in.

    Eakins says its NOT putative actually.

    Yak in, Gazdic and NShultz out.

    No Hanzel.

    EDM is +100 at 365 right now.

    I think that’s a good price and worth hitting.

    +165 for the Oilers to win in reg is worth a flier bet too.

  90. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: Your link is broken

    https://twitter.com/TSNRyanRishaug/status/351431739396194304

    Sorry WG. I tried it twice and it worked, but if you copy it into google it brings it straight up as an alternative.

  91. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy: Eakins says its NOT putative actually.

    Yak in, Gazdic and NShultz out.

    No Hanzel.

    EDM is +100 at 365 right now.

    I think that’s a good price and worth hitting.

    +165 for the Oilers to win in reg is worth a flier bet too.

    Might have to get on that as well. have to wait till I get home unfortunately

  92. Ducey says:

    Woodguy,

    The other reason is that the Oilers window is now, not 3-4-5 years from now.

    That’s a broken window. :)

    I don’t see any reason why the Oilers would be playing for now and giving up their future. Adding a player with a window (age/ skill wise or contractually) of 3 years is of no use. He will be leaving/ regressing when the Oilers youngsters are finally ready.

    There is a tremendous amount of uncertainty around almost every player on this team and a hell of a lot of holes. Is adding TJ Brodie going to suddenly be the missing piece allowing everything to fall in place? Unlikely. We are not even sure who will be coaching this time next year.

    If the Oilers can get a young 5 tool player in a trade for their first pick, then make a trade. But why would another team trade an older prospect or young NHL player for a draft pick?

    Young, controllable #1 defensemen and top 6 power forwards simply are not generally available. The easiest way to get them is to draft them.

    Maybe Ekblad is not going to be the guy. Maybe it will be Fleury (I really love his speed) or Bennett or the German guy. One of those guys should be able to help this team for a decade. The Oilers can’t give up on that just to improve from 29th to 20th.

  93. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan:
    woodguy my comment about gagner was for rex, as noted when I said “rex” then went on to comment about gagner. pay attention you dink lol

    Understood.

    Was reading on my phone at lunch and it threw me off

  94. Bag of Pucks says:

    oilersfan:
    I see people here comparing Ekblad to Chris Phillips or Brent Seabrook. Well if that is the lower ceiling I am fine with that. But some scouts compare him to Rob Blake, Drew Doughty, and Chris Pronger. I don’t see how going after anyone else that is at all available makes any sense when looking at the opportunity of drafting and keeping ekblad.

    Sounds like the Failers (TM) will need to bring Tambellini back for the lottery.

  95. Woodguy says:

    Ducey,

    I don’t see any reason why the Oilers would be playing for now and giving up their future.

    That’s a straw man though Ducey.

    Its more like “we’ll give up a guy who prjects to be a King in 4-5 year for a Jack now”

    Often you win that bet going away since the King turns into a Jack or less X% of the time.

    So its not “trade the future for now”

    Its take s surer bet (NHL track record) now as opposed to a risk for the future.

    That’s why picks are always magic beans, even good ones.

    Until the player makes it and plays well in the NHL, its far from a sure thing.

    Danny Syvret played for the Canadian World Junior team in his draft year just like Ekblad. Injuries derailed his career.

    Alzner played in his draft year, so did Luke Schenn, Ryan Ellis and Ryan Murray.

    There is lots and lots and lots of uncertainties, many of which are out of anyone’s control in picking Ekblad and waiting for him to mature.

    Is a safer bet, and may end up a better bet, to turn that pick into a Good Actual NHL Dman who can play.

    It also gets this team out of basement and on the path to winning one to two years earlier.

    As everyone has learned (even after they ignored many of us warning about this for all the Tambellni years), its not:

    1) Tank
    2) Draft High
    3) ????????
    4) BAM! STANLEY!!

    Even when you get good it takes time to learn to win in the playoffs.

    The Oilers need to reducer their variance and timeline and grab an NHLer.with this pick.

  96. WeirsBeard says:

    MacT has the chips to get what he needs. The pick, a smattering of prospect defensemen of varying pedigree and performance, and cash. Maybe 89 too.

    Use that to add the talent. Then sign your Pisanis and off you go.

  97. oilersfan says:

    woodguy

    Danny Syvret was drafted as a 20 year old after pumping up his numbers playing with Schremp on the London Knights in 2004. I guess you can call it his draft year but he wasn’t 17 or 18…

  98. WeirsBeard says:

    Woodguy:
    Ducey,

    I don’t see any reason why the Oilers would be playing for now and giving up their future.

    That’s a straw man though Ducey.

    Its more like “we’ll give up a guy who prjects to be a King in 4-5 year for a Jack now”

    Often you win that bet going away since the King turns into a Jack or less X% of the time.

    So its not “trade the future for now”

    Even when you get good it takes time to learn to win in the playoffs.

    The Oilers need to reducer their variance and timeline and grab an NHLer.with this pick.

    I know we discussed this before, but we should be looking at Iginla for Nieuwendyk. Why are people afraid of trading future value for present value?

  99. OilClog says:

    Woodguy: You don’t know that Ekblad is better than Marincin, Klef, or Nurse.

    Draft position is one barometer, but it’s only one.

    You are projecting a lot onto a 17 year old.

    A very good 17 year old who is probably a lock to have a good Nhl career, but past that it’s all guess work and crystal balls.

    I know, that’s why I was asking who shakes loose..

    Who moves for what we need now?

    If we draft Ekblad we all of a sudden have 4-5 very very good prospects on the back end.. Who stays who goes? This will be the most important step. If they screw it up, the Oilers are doomed for another 20yrs.

    So I don’t really know what I’m projecting that anyone else isn’t.. We’re going to have a very good group of defenders that are all too young to help now.. Who goes? What’s the return?

    Ekblad may be the best or the worst of them all.. So they better get it right who they’re sending out.

  100. fifthcartel says:

    I’m not sure if anyone else is listening, but it does sound like Stauffer is hinting at the assistants being let go for a more experienced group, one probably including a former head coach.

  101. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy,

    I guess I’m asking the same question.

    The pieces are more or less there, but I can’t get the math to even out.

    The Oilers need a top-pairing D and a 2C, the Flames have both. The Flames, or probably more specifically Burke, would want to draft Ekblad, which the OIlers may well be able to do.

    The two don’t really even out in terms of cost and value.

    But it is an interesting idea.

  102. Woodguy says:

    Ducey,

    Is adding TJ Brodie going to suddenly be the missing piece allowing everything to fall in place? Unlikely. We are not even sure who will be coaching this time next year.

    I wouild say there is more evidence that Brodie helps the Oilers than Ekblad does.

    At least in the next 3 years, maybe longer.

    Also,

    Adding one player isn’t the thing.

    They need 4-5.

    2 Dmen
    1 2C
    1 1G
    1 Strong wing to play in top 6.

    If you can check one off right now with certainty, that’s one more than you had.

  103. Woodguy says:

    OilClog: I know, that’s why I was asking who shakes loose..

    Who moves for what we need now?

    If we draft Ekblad we all of a sudden have 4-5 very very good prospects on the back end.. Who stays who goes? This will be the most important step. If they screw it up, the Oilers are doomed for another 20yrs.

    So I don’t really know what I’m projecting that anyone else isn’t.. We’re going to have a very good group of defenders that are all too young to help now.. Who goes? What’s the return?

    Ekblad may be the best or the worst of them all.. So they better get it right who they’re sending out.

    I get it.

    Lots of coffee and I’m a real dink today.

    Sorry.

  104. Woodguy says:

    WeirsBeard: I know we discussed this before, but we should be looking at Iginla for Nieuwendyk. Why are people afraid of trading future value for present value?

    Exactly!!!!!

    Thank you for bringing up a great example.

  105. RexLibris says:

    fifthcartel:
    I’m not sure if anyone else is listening, but it does sound like Stauffer is hinting at the assistants being let go for a more experienced group, one probably including a former head coach.

    So Buchberger and Smith can become pro scouts?

    Correct me if I’m wrong someone, but didn’t Smith work as a scout for the Blackhawks in the early to mid 2000s?

  106. Woodguy says:

    WeirsBeard: I know we discussed this before, but we should be looking at Iginla for Nieuwendyk. Why are people afraid of trading future value for present value?

    Its because Oiler fans are conditioned to think the high draft picks = future success.

    Also,

    Most Oiler fans think the answer to the problem of having too many rookies is to ADD MOAR ROOKIES!!

  107. Woodguy says:

    OilClog,

    I thought I was answering Oilersfan as well.

    Damn font on the phone is ridicusmall.

  108. fifthcartel says:

    And then Bob drops an incredibly obvious Craig Ramsay hint when asked about it by texters. Bob was silent for about 5 seconds then laughs, and says “oh, another Craig Ramsay text” followed by another somewhat long silence.

  109. Melman says:

    Is there any value in kicking tires on 1 year of Mike Green – even if it’s just to buy another year of time for the young guys in the minors?

  110. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan:
    woodguy

    Danny Syvret was drafted as a 20 year old after pumping up his numbers playing with Schremp on the London Knights in 2004. I guess you can call it his draft year but he wasn’t 17 or 18…

    Good catch, I missed that.

    Point stands on Alzner, Schenn and Murray.

  111. oilersfan says:

    Ryan Murphy you mean?

    Because Murray is looking pretty good.

    Also, TJ Brodie is no Joe Nieuwendyk

    And the Oilers are about 3 years away from where Dallas was when they traded Iginla.

    And off topic but Jason Bonsignore isn’t even close to the worst pick in Oilers history, because most of the players picked after him were also crap.

    but Steve Kelly cost the oilers Doan AND Iginla. unbelieveable

  112. Caramel Obvious says:

    If you don’t want to trade the #1 pick then you’re looking at trading Eberle. I don’t see how that helps, especially if they don’t re-sign Hemsky. The only other option is to hope that Gagner + Klefbom + something is enough. I’m not sure I see it.

    I also don’t think you can fill both the D hole and the center hole by trade and there aren’t any scoring centers available via free agency. So we need to give up on that model and go for solid players up and down the lineup.

    I’d be looking to sign Marcel Goc in the summer.

  113. art vandelay says:

    Mike Green in Edmonton>?
    Please make it happen.
    I mean, who doesn’t love a Chinese fire drill.
    I’m chuckling just picturing it.

  114. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy: Its because Oiler fans are conditioned to think the high draft picks = future success.

    Also,

    Most Oiler fans think the answer to the problem of having too many rookies is to ADD MOAR ROOKIES!!

    I haven’t looked but can you give any examples of a rebuild where trading out of a top 3 pick or trading a high end roster player was used to create a cup winner?

    My point is that every rebuild in recent memory was done through the draft.

  115. gogliano says:

    The Iginla for Niewendyk really isn’t a great example.

    a) Not cap era. A #2 pick is buying low cost years as much as it is buying a very good chance at an elite player (and an excellence chance at player that slots in on the second line or second pairing).

    b) Niewendyk was a piece for a team that need to get over the hump. Oilers are very far from that kind of team.

    c) Because Oilers. If a great player with not ties to the Oilers is not locked down to contract they are a flight risk. A draft pick is easier to retain. This drastically narrows the players we can target with our pick, so we are trading from a significant weakness.

    I’d keep the pick unless a draft day deal–market peak for trading picks, no question–brings back an above market return.

  116. LMHF#1 says:

    What’s the appetite to buy low on Tyler Myers? Haven’t seen that mentioned lately. 23 years old. Should bounce back. Signed until 2019.

    Would love to basically reload the group. Would get rid of Ference but I think they’re stuck with him. Don’t like Petry so I’d move him, but you could see how he’d fit on a second pair as well.

    Pitkanen(UFA)-Myers
    Kulikov(RFA)-Nikitin(RFA)
    Schultz-Ference
    Marincin

  117. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan,

    Because Murray is looking pretty good.

    Yes he is looking good.

    He’s not the 2nd coming of Pietrapronger that everyone makes Ekblad out to be.

    Will be a good NHLer.

  118. auzy11 says:

    Is this just getting worse or is it me,WE are the laughing stock of the NHL,how does this management core sleep at night knowing the team has gone backwards instead of forwards,on a rebuild,has that ever happened in a team that has been in a 4 year rebuild? I can not watch the games its almost sickening and its not the players i dont blame them at all,but to see the guy behind the bench who at best should be an assitant coach no more,its very dissapointing,the goals against have gone up,who is coaching these guys,i am sick

  119. Caramel Obvious says:

    Gregor is in full moron mode today;

    http://oilersnation.com/2014/1/24/gdb-530-home-cookingbad

    People seem to like Gregor but I can’t see why. His love of violence in sport is reprehensible. He’s a better educated version of Spector. And his argument in that piece is completely dishonest.

  120. oilersfan says:

    according to tsn Rene Bourque is available. he is 32 with 2 years left on his contract. he has not played well this season. I wonder if he would be available for a 5th round pick sort of thing. Big winger who can score. May be what the doctor ordered for Gagner ala Penner but with some meanness. he always scored 2 goals against the oil when they played the flames.

  121. WeirsBeard says:

    gogliano:
    The Iginla for Niewendyk really isn’t a great example.

    a) Not cap era.A #2 pick is buying low cost years as much as it is buying a very good chance at an elite player (and an excellence chance at player that slots in on the second line or second pairing).

    b) Niewendyk was a piece for a team that need to get over the hump.Oilers are very far from that kind of team.

    c) Because Oilers.If a great player with not ties to the Oilers is not locked down to contract they are a flight risk.A draft pick is easier to retain.This drastically narrows the players we can target with our pick, so we are trading from a significant weakness.

    I’d keep the pick unless a draft day deal–market peak for trading picks, no question–brings back an above market return.

    No example is perfect. I use it to communicate the idea of trading a player of similar talent at different stages of their career.

    Who are these players that would be flight risks from the Oilers? You brought up that we are in a cap era. I’d say Pronger, but besides him, the talent has been actively pushed out.

  122. cc says:

    Woodguy,

    I don’t think you can compare Ekblad to Schenn (.49 Pts/G) & Murray (.66).

    With regards to Alzner vs. Ekblad.

    The Hitmen averaged 3.48 Goals per Game in Alzner’s draft year.
    Alzner (.75 Pts/G) played in 87.5% of games during his draft year. Roughly if you estimate 3.48 Goals over 63 games that Alzner played he factored into 21% of his teams goals during his draft year.

    The Barrie Colts average 3.93 Goals / Game this year.
    Ekblad (.97 Pts/G) played in 77% of games thus far. Roughly if you estimate 3.93 Goals over 34 games that Ekblad played he factored into 25% of his teams goals during his draft year.

    Not sure about the PP time but he led the defenseman in scoring by 9 points and I believe 6 of his 8 goals came with the man advantage.

    I’m typically against drafting d-man and I personally would draft Sam Bennett first if everything was equal. But Ekblad, in my opinion, would be a good fit for the Oilers. I’d likely send him back to junior for another year but in a relatively weak draft year he’s got a lot of good qualities the Oilers need.

    I think that Ekblad is signifigantly ahead of where Alzner & Murray were in their draft years. Also, both Alzner & Murray were Sept. birth days and were 5 months older than Ekblad during their draft years.

  123. WeirsBeard says:

    Pouzar: I haven’t looked but can you give any examples of a rebuild where trading out of a top 3 pick or trading a high end roster player was used to create a cup winner?

    My point is that every rebuild in recent memory was done through the draft.

    Edmonton is in a unique position. They could hold 4 #1OV. Their recent ineptitude is unparalleled.

    Which other teams have rebuilt post salary cap?

  124. Woodguy says:

    Pouzar: I haven’t looked but can you give any examples of a rebuild where trading out of a top 3 pick or trading a high end roster player was used to create a cup winner?

    My point is that every rebuild in recent memory was done through the draft.

    Quebec-Colorado traded all 3 of their 1st overalls

    Ptttsburg traded thier 5th overall Dman Whitney for Kunitz during the 08/09 season.

    Chicago traded their 3rd overall Dman Cam “Can’t Miss” Barker in 09/10

    LA Kings traded two good young kids, one of who was a high draft pick (Schenn 5th overall)

    So there lots of examples.

    Those team were further down the road than the Oilers, but the Oilers are closer than they look.

    The lack of good Dmen, goalie and 2C is killing this team imo.

  125. Pouzar says:

    WeirsBeard: Edmonton is in a unique position. They could hold 4 #1OV. Their recent ineptitude is unparalleled.

    Which other teams have rebuilt post salary cap?

    1. It is not unparalleled at all. The Black Hawks had 1 playoff appearance in 10 seasons(97-07).
    The team a lot people compare our rebuild too for whatever reason.
    2. That’s what you get when your former GM doesn’t add a single decent NHLer to play with the drafted players.

  126. Woodguy says:

    cc:
    Woodguy,

    I don’t think you can compare Ekblad to Schenn (.49 Pts/G) & Murray (.66).

    With regards to Alzner vs. Ekblad.

    The Hitmen averaged 3.48 Goals per Game in Alzner’s draft year.
    Alzner (.75 Pts/G) played in 87.5% of games during his draft year.Roughly if you estimate 3.48 Goals over 63 games that Alzner played he factored into 21% of his teams goals during his draft year.

    The Barrie Colts average 3.93 Goals / Game this year.
    Ekblad (.97 Pts/G) played in 77% of games thus far.Roughly if you estimate 3.93 Goals over 34 games that Ekblad played he factored into 25% of his teams goals during his draft year.

    Not sure about the PP time but he led the defenseman in scoring by 9 points and I believe 6 of his 8 goals came with the man advantage.

    I’m typically against drafting d-man and I personally would draft Sam Bennett first if everything was equal.But Ekblad, in my opinion, would be a good fit for the Oilers.I’d likely send him back to junior for another year but in a relatively weak draft year he’s got a lot of good qualities the Oilers need.

    I think that Ekblad is signifigantly ahead of where Alzner & Murray were in their draft years.Also, both Alzner & Murray were Sept. birth days and were 5 months older than Ekblad during their draft years.

    I don’t get your math.

    Hitmen scored 256 goals that year and Alzner had point on 36 of them. 14%

    Colts have 173 goals so far and Ekblad has a point on 33 of them. 19%

    What am I missing?

    Also, do not forget that Ekblad plays PP1 and Alzner didn’t. That’ significant.

    I think Ekblad project higher than Alzner.

    Not as much as most people think though.

    Have heard more than one scout say he won’t be 1PP guy in the NHL, as he doesn”t have that top end offensive dimension needed.

    Many scouts are really luke warm on the whole draft.

  127. Ribs says:

    Woodguy: Because I’m old and have heard those stories about many Dmen who don’t turn into Doughty and Pietrangelo.
    Heard it about Alzner, Bogosian, Hedman, Larsson etc. etc.
    All fine NHL Dmen (Lalrsson i still struggling though), but not the 2nd coming of anyone.

    Don’t throw Hedman in with those bums! hah. The kid is a beast! And he’s even bigger than Pronger! Yaaa! lol

  128. TheOtherJohn says:

    WG

    Have no difficulty moving the pick for a strong player capable of playing now

    “He’s not the 2nd coming of Pietrapronger that everyone makes Ekblad out to be.”

    Not quite sure why Ekblad gets skewered.Not being Pietrapronger is not an insult. Pronger was the best D man in the Oilers history and Pietrangelo is a top 5-6 D man in the league.

    Recognize that I do not understand the OHL— strong conferences/schedule splits, etc but Ekblad is scoring at a .97 ppg pace this year at age 17 and Nurse is scoring at a .87 ppg as an 18 yr old. I assume both are on their respective 1st PP unit this year. Nurse is in on 21% of his teams goals and Ekblad is in on 19% of his teams goals but he also missed 10 games while at WJC.so that % would actually go up

    Offeensively they look pretty similiar and Nurse is a year older.

    If Ekblad’s ceiling is Chris Phillips—that is a good sized pretty decent 2nd pairing D. 13 years at approxiamately 20 TOI with little NHL offense. In his draft year Phillips scored at .66 ppg and was in on .12.5 of his teams goals. Ekblad certainly looks like he has more offense than Phillips in his draft yr

  129. speeds says:

    Woodguy: Quebec-Colorado traded all 3 of their 1st overalls

    Who knows how many Cups it cost COL to trade Sundin for an experienced vet in Clark? Maybe none, but maybe one or more?

  130. hags9k says:

    I think that the failure of the team in the past two seasons means we have to come to grips with the possibility that a Nurse Ekblad pairing may be the new nucleus we build around. I don’t see this team rising from the ashes unless we develop top D through the draft. If Hall and co. are still around when and if the D become top talents, now we’re cooking. If not, we will likely be in better shape and more competitive with a good defence and less talent up front.

    I just don’t see a trade or two or an Ehrhoff or two making this thing go. We are in for a long haul here. Being impatient for the Ekblad’s of the world and instead trying to patch things forward with Coburn or Ehrhoff, means the gears keep slipping forever. I realize that Nurse and Ekblad may never become half as good as Coburn or Ehrhoff, but we need to take that chance if the goal is still a long term contender, and not just let’s make the playoffs next year.

  131. thejonrmcleod says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Yeah, I made the mistake of trying to reason with Gregor. His thoughts on hits were nonsensical.

  132. Showerhead says:

    Is there a way to make the good stuff happen without a blockbuster trade?

    Take Ekblad #2 OV, send him and Nurse both back to junior unless they blow the doors off in TC.

    Sign four* of the following…

    (*yes, seriously, four)

    Boyle, Dan
    Timonen, Kimmo
    Markov, Andrei
    Pitkanen, Joni
    Zidlicky, Marek
    Meszaros, Andrej
    Quincey, Kyle
    Orpik, Brooks
    Salo, Sami
    Mitchell, Willie
    Tallinder, Henrik
    Girardi, Dan
    Robidas, Stephane
    Phillips, Chris
    Klesla, Rostislav
    Greene, Matt
    Morris, Derek
    Niskanen, Matt
    Nikitin, Nikita

    Maybe you don’t think everyone can play and yes I know not everyone makes it to free agency and yes I know that not everyone loves Edmonton.

    But:

    Pitkanen-Phillips
    Petry-J Schultz
    Ference-Nikitin
    Belov-etc

    No rookies! Look at it – no rookies!! And maybe you don’t like the guys I chose but I didn’t swing for the fences (Markov) and there are lots more options the way I see it. Marincin/Klefbom etc can anchor the AHL and be called up as deserved.

    You resign Scrivens (I’m in the crowd that says he’s probably slightly above average, not amazing) and you return the forward crew… and basically you need the new Horcoff* and you’re set.

    It’s easy.

    *and you call him “Horcofftimus Prime” because he’s 28 and not completely falling apart and capable of saving our universe.

  133. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    Because the toughest positions to fill, skilled forwards are filled and they can compete with the rest of the NHL.
    ***************************************************************************************
    Some day – as of now – they are getting decimated by the Western teams.

    The awful D and bad 2C are what’s holding the team back and those positions can be filled without waiting.
    ************************************************************************************
    Speaking of toughest positions to fill – finding 1st pairing top d-men is not easy either…
    Perhaps Klefbom and Nurse – but we all agree that is a few years away….( Nurse and Klefbom development I mean )

    There is no reason to wait, especially if you are waiting on a 17 year old who may or not be too slow to an elite NHL Dman who physically dominates teenagers as a key component to his game.
    ************************************************************************************************
    You have no choice not to wait – Nurse is 18 / Klefbom is 20.

    **********************************************************************************
    Still awaiting a – Legitimate – price from someone willing to pay to obtain at least 1 top D-men…

    The cost of obtaining Ekblad – or even Sam Bennett for that matter – is zero. ( caveats an all )

    This year has *proven* just how far away from even competing for the playoffs this organization is….

    We could easily be talking 7-10 spots away from even competing for a playoff spot…this we all agree on ..

    Don’t understand how all of those spots gets addressed by the Now squad.

  134. hags9k says:

    but the Oilers are closer than they look.

    The lack of good Dmen, goalie and 2C is killing this team imo.

    Agree that we lack good Defensemen, a #1 goalie, and another well rounded centre, but disagree that this makes us closer than we look. We are miles out.

  135. theres oil in virginia says:

    WG, Rom, somebody,
    Can you help me out here and verify that I am reading this correctly:

    Taylor Hall’s 2012-13 ES Corgis For %

    Doesn’t that chart indicate that the Sedins, Thornton/Marleau, Datsyuk and some other top forwards dominated Hall in terms of Corgi in 2012-13?

  136. Young Oil says:

    The only major problem I see for the near future is that we might not have enough assets to bring back a top pairing defenceman AND a #2C without creating other holes in the lineup.

    For the forwards, signing somebody like Winnik and bringing back Hartikainen would make a very good third line once you add Gordon to it, and Lander, Hendricks, and Pitlick could also make a quality fourth line, and the Hall, RNH, Ebs, Perron, and Yak is a good top 6, we just need that #2C.

    As for the defence, I think Ekblad might be too good to pass up. He seems like more of a Pietrangelo than an Alzner, as well as a perfect compliment to Nurse. It would really round out our defensive core. Personally, I would send both him and Nurse back to junior after playing them together in the rookie camp and preseason, let them be the top pairing in the WJC, and bring them in as a 3rd pairing in the 2015-16 season.

    For next season, I think a relatively inexpensive top pairing Dman like Erhoff or Byfuglien would go a long way to help this team, more than a #2C (Arco could fill in relatively well until we are able to get one). Gagner and a 2015 1st could likely bring that Dman we so desperately need, since most GMs will think that pick could turn into McDavid. Then, our 6 dmen going into next year would likely be:

    Klefbom-Erhoff
    Ference-Petry
    Marincin-J. Schultz
    Belov

    Of course I’m not suggesting Klefbom is a top pairing player, but pairing him with Erhoff could be similar to the Suter-Brodin pairing last year. It’s still certainly inexperienced as a whole, but much improved over this year, and allows Nurse and Ekblad to spend another year in junior. Then, we’d have a forward core of:

    RNH-Hall-Eberle
    Arco-Perron-Yak
    Gordon-Hartikainen-Winnik
    Lander-Hendricks-Pitlick
    Gazdic

    Which still lacks size in the top 6, but has a much improved bottom 6, with less defensive liabilities. The only real problem then would be finding a #2C, but the defence, which is by far our biggest problem, would be much improved.

    I think once you add Nurse+Ekblad to that lineup, as well as any other successful draft picks (Yakimov, Chase, Khaira etc), that might be a lineup that could be in the playoffs starting 2015-16, and be a competitive team for years to come.

  137. denny33 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I also don’t think you can fill both the D hole and the center hole by trade and there aren’t any scoring centers available via free agency. So we need to give up on that model and go for solid players up and down the lineup.
    ****************************************************************************
    Exactly! From what we can tell – how many GM’s looking to deal their best d-man?
    The answer could be Zero.

    Universally agreed – UFA’s offer few solutions to anyone.

    No easy ( quick ) fixes for the Massive amount of holes in this roster.

  138. oliveoilers says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Gregor is in full moron mode today;

    http://oilersnation.com/2014/1/24/gdb-530-home-cookingbad

    People seem to like Gregor but I can’t see why.His love of violence in sport is reprehensible.He’s a better educated version of Spector.And his argument in that piece is completely dishonest.

    Maybe Ice Hockey isn’t the sport for you, with it being a contact sport and all…….You could try Field Hockey, where you can’t legally be obstructed?

  139. hoser313 says:

    Young Oil,

    Agree with most of these ideas. Man, if Harski could only improve his shooting a bit that would help him tremendously. Maybe someone can send him a VHS copy of “The Shooter’s Edge”.

  140. hags9k says:

    Young Oil,
    I like that post, but I wonder if since we seem to agree we likely aren’t going to be a serious threat until Nurse and Ekblad “arrive” anyway, why not keep the pick and Gags and stay in the McDavid hunt. How much of a difference maker will Erhoff be in 15-16?

  141. gcw_rocks says:

    Woodguy,

    I don’t get the inclusion of Murray on that list. In his rookie season, draft plus one, he is second on his team in ice time, plays the PK, plays the PP, and is in the top 60 in NHL defencemen in scoring.

    The puck moves the right way when he is on the ice and he has a positive CF%.

    Seems to me he is way ahead of Alzner, for example. Need to see what happens the next couple of seasons, but at this point he is looking like a very good pick., delivering big minutes within the Oilers needed timeframe.

  142. Ducey says:

    Woodguy,

    I think we differ on where this team is at. I don’t see it being an average to above average player or two away.

    If you add Shea Weber and Hanzel they would be pretty good, but those are not the players we are talking about. Getting them would result in gutting the team and prospect pipeline.

    Nieuwendyk for Iginla was a a short term trade for Dallas. Dallas got 6 years of a player that had one year of 69 pts, one of 55, one of 52, one of 51 and a couple in the 30′s. Iginla played 17 years for the Flames, is their all time leader in everything. He scored more than 88 points 4 times.

    You can say that Nieuwendyk helped them in 1999 when they won the Cup. He won the Conn Smyth. But that year he scored 55 pts in 67 games. Iginla went 51 in 82.

    If the Oilers needed the experience of a Niewendyk to get them over the hump and into the finals, then I would agree with you. But they are just trying to crawl out of the basement and they don’t award the Conn Smyth or Stanley Cup for that.

    I’d rather the Oilers pick up the young Iginla than the old Niewendyk.

    Its a great discussion though.

  143. hoser313 says:

    denny33:

    The cost of obtaining Ekblad– or even Sam Bennett for that matter – is zero. ( caveats an all )

    This is exactly the point. You can get a potentially elite level player for no cost. The Perron/Paajarvi type trades are nice but they still leave other holes in the roster.

    Signing or trading for another #4D or #5D isn’t helpful either. I think it’s fair to say MacT has tried very hard at this route.

    Personally I don’t think trading the pick gets you a top pair defenceman still in their twenties. Obviously, I would be happy to be wrong on this point though.

  144. OilClog says:

    Woodguy: I get it.

    Lots of coffee and I’m a real dink today.

    Sorry.

    No need for sorry! It’s already sorry enough being Oiler fans and all lol.

    I’m on coffee 4 so far.. Something in the air today. Oh I’m on the coast, I know what’s in the air.

    I would trade the pick to Calgary to land Gio in a heartbeat.

    My caffiene filled delusions play out like this.

    Edm trades 1st to Calgary, we land Gio extend him for 6yrs.

    Edm trades Gags, Hemsky, Maricin, Schultz

    Ott trades Lazar, Methot, Zibengaefizkeltbsj(sp?)

    Pipes dreams. Mmmmmm brownie

  145. Showerhead says:

    hoser313:
    Young Oil,

    Agree with most of these ideas.Man, if Harski could only improve his shooting a bit that would help him tremendously.Maybe someone can send him a VHS copy of “The Shooter’s Edge”.

    I am so glad you referenced that VHS. As perhaps the only hockey related tape at my small town library, I watched it at least twice a season as a kid!

  146. Young Oil says:

    hags9k:
    Young Oil,
    I like that post, but I wonder if since we seem to agree we likely aren’t going to be a serious threat until Nurse and Ekblad “arrive” anyway, why not keep the pick and Gags and stay in the McDavid hunt.How much of a difference maker will Erhoff be in 15-16?

    Ideally that could be the case, but We need a true top pairing defender, both to ease in the rookies we have now with an established defender, and to prevent thrusting Nurse and Ekblad into a feature role before they are ready. They need to grow into it. I like keeping first round picks more than anyone, but that was the only asset I could think of that could bring back a high caliber player without opening other holes in the lineup. Most would suggest trading Marincin or Klefbom, but I think they are going to be VERY good defencemen. Big and well rounded.

    What else would you suggest? Maybe Gags+J. Schultz for Erhoff, then sign Nikitin to play with Belov/Marincin, and draft a #2C in 2015 with the pick? I personally think J. Schultz, while very good offensively, has less upside than Nurse, Ekblad, Marincin, and Klefbom, due to being fairly one dimensional, so I’d be more than OK moving him (for the right price)

  147. OilClog says:

    hoser313: This is exactly the point.You can get a potentially elite level player for no cost.The Perron/Paajarvi type trades are nice but they still leave other holes in the roster.

    Signing or trading for another #4D or #5D isn’t helpful either.I think it’s fair to say MacT has tried very hard at this route.

    Personally I don’t think trading the pick gets you a top pair defenceman still in their twenties.Obviously, I would be happy to be wrong on this point though.

    Potentially

    Or potentially you get Cam Barker and kick yourself in the ass for not moving the pic for the sure thing your team really fuxking needed back then.. It’s all a gamble.

    What hole did the Perron trade make? Perron is in MPS position on the team doing a better job in the “now”.

    Hell if the Oilers could sign another real #4 D.. That would be progress with this group. A real #4 would would push out the stock pile of 6′s and 7′s.

  148. OilClog says:

    Ducey:
    Woodguy,

    I think we differ on where this team is at.I don’t see it being an average to above average player or two away.

    If you add Shea Weber and Hanzel they would be pretty good, but those are not the players we are talking about.Getting them would result in gutting the team and prospect pipeline.

    Nieuwendyk for Iginla was a a short term trade for Dallas.Dallas got 6 years of a player that had one year of 69 pts, one of 55, one of 52, one of 51 and a couple in the 30′s.Iginla played 17 years for the Flames, is their all time leader in everything.He scored more than 88 points 4 times.

    You can say that Nieuwendyk helped them in 1999 when they won the Cup.He won the Conn Smyth. But that year he scored 55 pts in 67 games.Iginla went 51 in 82.

    If the Oilers needed the experience of aNiewendyk to get them over the hump and into the finals, then I would agree with you.But they are just trying to crawl out of the basement and they don’t award the Conn Smyth or Stanley Cup for that.

    I’d rather the Oilers pick up the young Iginla than the old Niewendyk.

    Its a great discussion though.

    We need more a Gilmour/Hull style trade no?

  149. hoser313 says:

    OilClog,

    Depending on how you look at it, Paajarvi was either THE defensive guy on the 2nd line (which is pretty important if the other 2 guys are Gags and Yak) or a cap-friendly two-way net-driving 3rd liner. He’s no goon but I think COH had an article earlier showing that Paajarvi drove to the net more than he ever really got credit for in his last season.

  150. icecastles says:

    hoser313,

    Over 31 games as a St Louis Blue, MPS has 6 points and a -6 rating. On the Blues. It’s not easy to be a minus player on the team with the best goal differential in the NHL. (Hint: Of guys who have played more than 6 games, he’s the only minus on the team).

    Makes it tough to see him as “THE defensive guy” on any team, even the Oilers.

    And yes, MPS did drive to the net a lot for the Oilers. So keen was he on doing it, that he tended to keep driving right on past it.

  151. sliderule says:

    The only thing that might scare you off Ekblad is the skating issue.
    At the prospect game they did extensive testing so the oilers have way more information than we have about his speed and agility.
    He has an older birthday with along with his developed physique should make him ready to play next year.
    There is still lots of season left and there will be risers and fallers but if he doesn’t crap the bed Ekblad looks like what we need.

  152. cc says:

    Woodguy,

    You have to take into account the games that they don’t play, but Alzner has played almost 10% more of his teams games. Wouldn’t it make more sense to average out the goals per game that Barrie & Calgary scored? Then get the % based on how many games they played.

    Ekblad only played in 34 of 44 of Barrie’s games. 77% of their total games. On average Ekblad’s team scores I forget 3.9 something goals per game.
    Alzner played in only 63 of 72 of Calrgary’s games. 87.5% of their total games. On average Alzner’s team averaged 3.5 something goals per game.

    So I calculated, Barries goals per game (3.9 something again I forget) multiplied by 34 this would get us the estimated goals per game in which Ekblad played in. Then divided the 33 (Ekblad’s point total) by the total estimated goals which I believe was 131.
    33 / (3.9 * 34) = .25

    It’s not perfect but it’s better than having an 8.5% gap in the % of games that each person played.
    Not sure if this makes more sense or less sense.

    I don’t know how much PP time Alzner had. But his scoring seems high. Unless, I’m looking at it wrong 6 out of 8 (75%) goals seems were on the PP. Fairly significant correct? Ekblad’s around the same 10 out of 14 PPG (71%). I don’t know if his offense comes to the NHL, but I think that he seems to be better than Murray, Schenn and Alzner.

  153. Woodguy says:

    cc:
    Woodguy,

    I don’t think you can compare Ekblad to Schenn (.49 Pts/G) & Murray (.66).

    With regards to Alzner vs. Ekblad.

    The Hitmen averaged 3.48 Goals per Game in Alzner’s draft year.
    Alzner (.75 Pts/G) played in 87.5% of games during his draft year.Roughly if you estimate 3.48 Goals over 63 games that Alzner played he factored into 21% of his teams goals during his draft year.

    The Barrie Colts average 3.93 Goals / Game this year.
    Ekblad (.97 Pts/G) played in 77% of games thus far.Roughly if you estimate 3.93 Goals over 34 games that Ekblad played he factored into 25% of his teams goals during his draft year.

    Not sure about the PP time but he led the defenseman in scoring by 9 points and I believe 6 of his 8 goals came with the man advantage.

    I’m typically against drafting d-man and I personally would draft Sam Bennett first if everything was equal.But Ekblad, in my opinion, would be a good fit for the Oilers.I’d likely send him back to junior for another year but in a relatively weak draft year he’s got a lot of good qualities the Oilers need.

    I think that Ekblad is signifigantly ahead of where Alzner & Murray were in their draft years.Also, both Alzner & Murray were Sept. birth days and were 5 months older than Ekblad during their draft years.

    I totally missed gp.

    Good stuff.

    I’m just trying to get people to quit thinking that Ekblad is the savior of the franchise.

    Based on the scouting reports I see a very solid NHLer, but not more.

    I could be wrong.

  154. Kris11 says:

    Young guns next year:

    Nilsson-Gagner-Cogliano

    Nurse-Ekblad

    Young guns, rookies. The 80′s all over! Wooo!

  155. Woodguy says:

    Young Oil: Ideally that could be the case, but We need a true top pairing defender, both to ease in the rookies we have now with an established defender, and to prevent thrusting Nurse and Ekblad into a feature role before they are ready. They need to grow into it. I like keeping first round picks more than anyone, but that was the only asset I could think of that could bring back a high caliber player without opening other holes in the lineup. Most would suggest trading Marincin or Klefbom,but I think they are going to be VERY good defencemen. Big and well rounded.

    What else would you suggest? Maybe Gags+J. Schultz for Erhoff, then sign Nikitin to play with Belov/Marincin, and draft a #2C in 2015 with the pick? I personally think J. Schultz, while very good offensively, has less upside than Nurse, Ekblad, Marincin, and Klefbom, due to being fairly one dimensional, so I’d be more than OK moving him (for the right price)

    I like your posts a lot.

    Agreed all points.

  156. Woodguy says:

    cc:
    Woodguy,

    You have to take into account the games that they don’t play, but Alzner has played almost 10% more of his teams games.Wouldn’t it make more sense to average out the goals per game that Barrie & Calgary scored? Then get the % based on how many games they played.

    Ekblad only played in 34 of 44 of Barrie’s games.77% of their total games.On average Ekblad’s team scores I forget 3.9 something goals per game.
    Alzner played in only 63 of 72 of Calrgary’s games.87.5% of their total games.On average Alzner’s team averaged 3.5 something goals per game.

    So I calculated, Barries goals per game (3.9 something again I forget) multiplied by 34 this would get us the estimated goals per game in which Ekblad played in.Then divided the 33 (Ekblad’s point total) by the total estimated goals which I believe was 131.
    33 / (3.9 * 34) = .25

    It’s not perfect but it’s better than having an 8.5% gap in the % of games that each person played.
    Not sure if this makes more sense or less sense.

    I don’t know how much PP time Alzner had.But his scoring seems high.Unless, I’m looking at it wrong 6 out of 8 (75%) goals seems were on the PP.Fairly significant correct?Ekblad’s around the same 10 out of 14 PPG (71%).I don’t know if his offense comes to the NHL, but I think that he seems to be better than Murray, Schenn and Alzner.

    Ha!

    I realized my mistake driving home and posted my mea culpe while you posted your response.

    Good points.

  157. Woodguy says:

    Ducey:
    Woodguy,

    I think we differ on where this team is at.I don’t see it being an average to above average player or two away.

    If you add Shea Weber and Hanzel they would be pretty good, but those are not the players we are talking about.Getting them would result in gutting the team and prospect pipeline.

    Nieuwendyk for Iginla was a a short term trade for Dallas.Dallas got 6 years of a player that had one year of 69 pts, one of 55, one of 52, one of 51 and a couple in the 30′s.Iginla played 17 years for the Flames, is their all time leader in everything.He scored more than 88 points 4 times.

    You can say that Nieuwendyk helped them in 1999 when they won the Cup.He won the Conn Smyth. But that year he scored 55 pts in 67 games.Iginla went 51 in 82.

    If the Oilers needed the experience of aNiewendyk to get them over the hump and into the finals, then I would agree with you.But they are just trying to crawl out of the basement and they don’t award the Conn Smyth or Stanley Cup for that.

    I’d rather the Oilers pick up the young Iginla than the old Niewendyk.

    Its a great discussion though.

    That’s very fair.

    One thing though.

    When you type “he won the Conn Smythe” the next word can’t be “but”

    :)

    Maybe i’m too old and don’t want to wait.

    I’m really fearful of losing the interest of the gifted kids.

    Clock is ticking on those contracts.

  158. gogliano says:

    I was looking at old drafts so I thought I’d provide an easy reference. Ten years of top 3 picks (recent picks omitted):

    2001:
    Ilya Kovalchuk
    Jason Spezza
    Alexander Svitov

    2002:
    Rick Nash
    Kari Lehtonen
    Jay-Bo

    2003:

    Marc-Andre Fleury
    Eric Staal
    Nathan Horton

    2004:
    Alexander Ovechkin
    Evgeni Malkin
    Cam Barker (ugh)

    2005:
    Crosby
    Bobby Ryan
    Jack Johnson

    2006:
    Erik Johnson
    Jordan Staal
    Jonathan Toews

    2007:
    Patrick Kane
    James Van Riemsdyk
    Kyle Turris

    2008:
    Steven Stamkos
    Drew Doughty
    Zach Bogosian

    2009:
    John Tavares
    Victor Hedman
    Matt Duchene

    2010:
    Taylor Hall
    Tyler Seguin
    Eric Gudbranson

    Things we know:

    1. Picking a goaler is a flat out error.
    2. Picking a dman is risky.
    3. The median result for a forward good enough to go top 3 is an elite forward. That’s a nice list of players.

  159. Lowetide says:

    Stretch (Klefbom, Musil) 1-1 \OKC Charlotte

  160. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Pitlick going for a penalty shot! tune in now!!!

  161. Young Oil says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Pitlick going for a penalty shot! tune in now!!!

    Did he score? On the note of Pitlick being one on one with the goalie:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LzmVNW_rt0

  162. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    WG, Rom, somebody,
    Can you help me out here and verify that I am reading this correctly:

    Taylor Hall’s 2012-13 ES Corgis For %

    Doesn’t that chart indicate that the Sedins, Thornton/Marleau, Datsyuk and some other top forwards dominated Hall in terms of Corgi in 2012-13?

    Just caught this now.

    yes. but one thing to keep in mind. We’ve only got max about 30mins of 5x5TOI for direct head-to-head matchups. that’s about 2 games worth (at the max). so good and bad there’s some sample size issues.

  163. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Young Oil: Did he score? On the note of Pitlick being one on one with the goalie:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LzmVNW_rt0

    No. he tried to go five hole and couldn’t get it through.

    oh, and that video is awesome… get some hands Pits!!

  164. Romulus Apotheosis says:
  165. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Thanks Rom. Not trying too much to draw conclusions yet, just making sure I understand what I’m looking at there. That’s a pretty neat site, but I haven’t had much time to go digging around. I think, though, that it is safe to say from looking at that one graph in isolation, that Hall did not “saw-off” against the best competition in 2012-13, no?

  166. cabbiesmacker says:

    j:
    slopitch,

    There was some chatter about Chicago looking for a second line centre to run with Kane.You would have to believe Gags would be near the top of that wish list (money aside).

    Yep the Hawks could use a 2C. Fortunately for myself AND the Hawks Gagner isn’t one, and perhaps even more fortunately he isn’t a 3C or 4C either and his contract is prohibitive.

    Shaw and arguably Kruger are already better C’s than Gagner and cost a lot less money per annum.

  167. spoiler says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Pitlick going for a penalty shot! tune in now!!!

    Can’t. Condemned to watching undrafted Juniors the rare times they’re on TV. Because Oilers.

  168. hodgkins says:

    After watching tonight’s Barons game I think I need to watch them more often. Much more entertaining than most of the Oilers games I’ve seen this year.

  169. Pouzar says:

    Wow Klefbom is way more shifty than I imagined. Very cool.

  170. spoiler says:

    Well the Oshawa Dal Colles creamed the Peterborough Ritchies tonight. Dal Colle with 4 points and instrumental on a 5th goal… very impressive with the puck. Ritchie largely ineffective against a hard-working General’s squad focused on defending him. Kept him to the outside, hit him at every opportunity, got in his grille…

  171. spoiler says:

    Actual shots from the point?

  172. FastOil says:

    Wading in on the timeline issue, truly good players don’t need a ton of time to be good at the NHL level, they need support.

    Taylor Hall kicked butt straight off the bat. Terrible Oilers pushed his training to this year. Typical players need training at the AHL level. Really good players figure it out fast.

  173. D says:

    Great effort by Hendricks there.

  174. vangolf says:

    Salary be damned, I love Hendricks!

  175. Pouzar says:

    As Stauffer would say I got time for Hendricks.

  176. Minister D- says:

    Yeah, the contract is bad, but I dig what I’ve seen of this Hendricks guy. When’s the last time an Oiler threw a dirty, dirty elbow like that? Love it.

  177. Lowetide says:

    If Hendicks can kill penalties and win faceoffs and play on a 3 or 4line that doesn’t get killed, I’m fine with the acquisition. Long way to go, and that was a penalty.

  178. spoiler says:

    That looks more like the Joensuu from Game 1.

  179. D says:

    Here we go.

  180. Pouzar says:

    9-3 Barons lose and Klefbom is +1 with an assist?

  181. spoiler says:

    And there’s a fight so we will go to ad…

  182. Pouzar says:

    oh fer f^ck sakes…Hendricks all truculent and commercial break

  183. D says:

    spoiler,

    On the amateur channel, yep. On the Phoenix feed, we got to see the fight.

  184. Minister D- says:

    Fuck sakes. Slump busting. AGAIN.

  185. spoiler says:

    Slumpbusters R Us

  186. Lowetide says:

    Yeah, Hendricks can’t take penalties like he’s taken in this period. He’s been an enormous negative this period by any measure.

  187. spoiler says:

    Slumpbusters R Us again.

    I don’t think I put Bryz out there for the 2nd period.

  188. D says:

    Floodgates are open.

  189. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    Yeah, Hendricks can’t take penalties like he’s taken in this period. He’s been an enormous negative this period by any measure.

    The first one was bad…the 2nd one was horse shit. And guess what…I liked it. We need more of it.

  190. book¡je says:

    So, I am not able to watch, but see the score piling up against the oilers on my phone. Did the team come out flat? What the hell. Woodguy said they were going to win. Regardless of the makeup of the team, can a coach survive the worst season in Oilers history?

    Blah!

  191. Minister D- says:

    Lowetide,

    I dunno; I think he scores pretty high on the ‘asshole’ metric.
    Agree, Pouzar.

  192. book¡je says:

    Pouzar: The first one was bad…the 2nd one was horse shit. And guess what…I liked it. We need more of it.

    Yes, because other teams fear our penalty kill and will get so tired of scoring goals that it will help the Oilers.

  193. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Love Hendricks penalties and all. Oilers are actually playing ok

  194. jake70 says:

    I turn the game on with 6:50 left in period and it’s 0-0…and think ok, not too bad, still in it….within 4.5 minutes they are down 3-0, what a pile.

  195. Derek says:

    book¡je:
    So, I am not able to watch, but see the score piling up against the oilers on my phone.Did the team come out flat?What the hell.Woodguy said they were going to win.Regardless of the makeup of the team, can a coach survive the worst season in Oilers history?

    Blah!

    Yea. I’m just tuning in to see 15 shots a piece through 20 minutes? Whats the deal here, is this game worth watching?

  196. FastOil says:

    The Oilers don’t have a player talented enough to avoid taking the body. I’m not talking head hunting, but given they can’t get the puck they need to do what everyone else in the NHL does.

    edit: time to man up. Hit the gym and get strong or go to Europe. PUT THE CONTROLLER DOWN THIS SUMMER.

  197. Pouzar says:

    book¡je: Yes, because other teams fear our penalty kill and will get so tired of scoring goals that it will help the Oilers.

    Yes, b/c losing due over aggressiveness is what has sunk this team. Please.

  198. book¡je says:

    Pouzar: Yes, b/c losing due over aggressiveness is what has sunk this team. Please.

    No, they lose because they don’t score enough goals and get scored against too often.

  199. Pouzar says:

    book¡je: No, they lose because they don’t score enough goals and get scored against too often.

    then we agree. Let me have my pound of flesh.

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