EAKINS TRUTH

Dallas Eakins had an interesting quote today, talking about “changes” and the possibility he could be out if things don’t turn around. Allow me to list the things I would do before firing Dallas Eakins.

principeTHE LIST

  1. Shoot the powerplay coach
  2. Add two actual NHL defensemen
  3. Find a goalie who can stop pucks at a .915 clip
  4. Wait one year.

If Dallas Eakins doesn’t have this team in a position near the outskirts of the playoffs at this time next year, then fine. Pull the plug. But not a moment before, and certainly not this season. The media conferences alone are too damn valuable!

THE REAL LIST

  1. Two actual NHL defensemen
  2. A starting goalie to go with Scrivens
  3. A big two-way center
  4. A powerplay

rishaug tweetHold on to your hats, ladies!

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113 Responses to "EAKINS TRUTH"

  1. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Are we sure MacT wasn’t on a very late trip of mourning for the Hornets?

    Glen Rice!

  2. Jon K says:

    Maybe the Eakins quotation reflects a veiled desire to get fired. Three more years of pay and he doesn’t have to face a shooting gallery after every game.

  3. PunjabiOil says:

    This video is apt re: Oilers

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

  4. sliderule says:

    You have got to think that any trade with Columbus involves a Baron player.

    I would say Klefbom would be part of it.

  5. theres oil in virginia says:

    If Gagner plus Klefbom got you Jack Johnson, would you make the deal?

  6. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I wish they tried to nab RyJo last year when he was apparently on the outs.

    I bet they target Umberger:

    http://www.capgeek.com/player/588

    My interest in Tyutin has faded. He’s tailed off of late:

    http://www.extraskater.com/player/250/fedor-tyutin

    Still good… but man D can really hit a wall with age.

  7. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    If Gagner plus Klefbom got you Jack Johnson, would you make the deal?

    C’mon… no trolling. :)

  8. speeds says:

    If EDM is looking at CLB, I’m curious if they might be looking at Erixon. He’s a guy that Howson traded for once, he’s putting up really good AHL numbers. He’s relatively young (turns 23 in Feb), might well fit with the core age group going forward?

  9. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: C’mon… no trolling.

    Hehe. I know, I feel like I’m trolling WG, but honest I’m not.

    **blinks eyes and puts on innocent face**

    Maybe I should have started lower: If Gagner plus Gernat got you Jack Johnson, would you make the deal? Point being, would you be unhappy to get JJ if he cost less than one of the stars?

  10. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    speeds:
    If EDM is looking at CLB, I’m curious if they might be looking at Erixon.He’s a guy that Howson traded for once, he’s putting up really good AHL numbers.He’s relatively young (turns 23 in Feb), might well fit with the core age group going forward?

    Hmmm. interesting.

    Do you think they’d move him? Is he an upgrade on our stockpile?

    http://www.capgeek.com/player/2058

    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?7646

    He hasn’t been extended yet. Unsigned RFA D still young, still in the AHL.. what does that even cost?

  11. justDOit says:

    Sorry for the long URL – if someone can school me on inserting links on this site, feel free.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q82/s720x720/1551605_580582098693216_1776656938_n.jpg

  12. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Hehe.I know, I feel like I’m trolling WG, but honest I’m not.

    **blinks eyes and puts on innocent face**

    Maybe I should have started lower:If Gagner plus Gernat got you Jack Johnson, would you make the deal?Point being, would you be unhappy to get JJ if he cost less than one of the stars?

    I don’t trade for JJ. He’s all reputation at this point. I’d aim higher.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    justDOit: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q82/s720x720/1551605_580582098693216_1776656938_n.jpg

    DMW said something the other day about an app… but to be honest my eyes glaze over when people start talking about the puter.

  14. flyfish1168 says:

    Jon K:
    Maybe the Eakins quotation reflects a veiled desire to get fired. Three more years of pay and he doesn’t have to face a shooting gallery after every game.

    Good point.

    As much as I dislike Eakins style and how he comes across on interviews I don’t want to see him leave. If he does we are starting all over again and is truly lost in the desert.

  15. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I don’t trade for JJ. He’s all reputation at this point. I’d aim higher.

    Ya’ think so? I haven’t watched a lot of CBJ games (for obvious reasons), but he’s looked pretty capable in what little action I’ve seen of him. The problem with aiming higher is that those targets are hard to hit. Subban and Weber, for instance, are almost certainly not going anywhere, and if they did get traded, the price would likely be staggering. I’m not even sure that JJ could be gotten for the prices I mentioned above.

  16. theres oil in virginia says:

    flyfish1168: Good point.

    As much as I dislike Eakins style and how he comes across on interviews I don’t want to see him leave. If he does we are starting all over again and is truly lost in the desert.

    Folks have been talking lately about the Cleveland Browns and how much difficulty they are having even getting people to come and interview for their head-coaching position. They’ve fired a few coaches over the last few years.

  17. justDOit says:

    Anyone else feel that Eakins’ comment about his job security is really more of a distraction ploy, and maybe a bit of a message to the team?

  18. flyfish1168 says:

    theres oil in virginia: Folks have been talking lately about the Cleveland Browns and how much difficulty they are having even getting people to come and interview for their head-coaching position.They’ve fired a few coaches over the last few years.

    I have been following this too. We maybe at the point where nobody trust upper management if we let Eakins go.

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Ya’ think so?I haven’t watched a lot of CBJ games (for obvious reasons), but he’s looked pretty capable in what little action I’ve seen of him.The problem with aiming higher is that those targets are hard to hit.Subban and Weber, for instance, are almost certainly not going anywhere, and if they did get traded, the price would likely be staggering.I’m not even sure that JJ could be gotten for the prices I mentioned above.

    Well… there are worlds separating JJ from Subban and Weber.

    http://www.extraskater.com/player/256/jack-johnson

    http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=6538

    I’m sure we can find something in between.

  20. nelson88 says:

    Willis has a good article up over at Oilers Nation. I doubt Willis was trying to make the point I am going to but to borrow a quote;

    “That has to be balanced against MacTavish getting a guy suited to his style of managing.”

    Roster make up aside that is the primary reason the Oilers are close to DFL. MacT and Eakins are very smart guys, no doubt about it. The problem is they are often times fixated on being “right” rather than being effective. The type of great press conference material that has everyone so googly eyed doesn’t mean much if you can’t get results.

    Case in point with MacT. You try and upgrade your goalie position in the offseason. Fair enough but then it leaks (I can’t recall him even trying to deny the Schneider offer) and when it does you come up with a witty comment along the lines of: “if you have to ask the question you already know the answer.” What experienced, successful GM says that? Well done sir. Well done. It’s the same pile of BS that pointed to fact it was time for him to leave as a coach. I thought at the time he was burnt out and needed a rest. Turns out it was more of a managerial character flaw.

  21. theres oil in virginia says:

    justDOit,
    Check out the “You may use these HTML tags and attributes blurb below the comment box. I’ve never tried this before, but if this post works, then it means that you put your link in double quotes after “a href=” and your link title in double quotes after “title=”.

    allaboutlinks

  22. Pouzar says:

    theres oil in virginia: Folks have been talking lately about the Cleveland Browns and how much difficulty they are having even getting people to come and interview for their head-coaching position. They’ve fired a few coaches over the last few years.

    Yeah but they have a dysfunctional organization.

    :P

  23. SoCaloil says:

    Think he’s just being realistic
    How can one justify such poor performance given:
    1) the core is more skilled and experienced than last year.
    2) relatively healthier than last yr
    3) east coast comp this yr
    4) quantity of runaway games vs quantity of 1 goal games last yr

    The lack of ability to compete is astonishing

  24. Clay says:

    justDOit:
    Anyone else feel that Eakins’ comment about his job security is really more of a distraction ploy, and maybe a bit of a message to the team?

    Depending on what rumors you believe, this tweet will make the players try even less.

  25. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Interesting sound bites from Eakins today. I have to say I agree with most of it. Sounds like the young players are completely lost with systems after a new coach every year. Pretty much sums up what we have been watching all year. I like the quote saying lots of guys will be heading out of town at the deadline.

  26. steveb12344 says:

    nelson88:
    Willis has a good article up over at Oilers Nation. I doubt Willis was trying to make the point I am going to but to borrow a quote;

    “That has to be balanced against MacTavish getting a guy suited to his style of managing.”

    Roster make up aside that is the primary reason the Oilers are close to DFL. MacT and Eakins are very smart guys, no doubt about it. The problem is they are often times fixated on being “right” rather than being effective. The type of great press conference material that has everyone so googly eyed doesn’t mean much if you can’t get results.

    Case in point with MacT. You try and upgrade your goalie position in the offseason. Fair enough but then it leaks (I can’t recall him even trying to deny the Schneider offer) and when it does you come up with a witty comment along the lines of: “if you have to ask the question you already know the answer.”What experienced, successful GM says that?Well done sir. Well done. It’s the same pile of BS that pointed to fact it was time for him to leave as a coach. I thought at the time he was burnt out and needed a rest. Turns out it was more of a managerial character flaw.

    MacT made that comment well before he tried to trade for Schneider at the draft.

  27. oliveoilers says:

    Interesting. Preds pick up Del Zotto for their version of Nick Schultz. Klein was -11 on a good d-corps, heaven knows what he’d be on the Oilers. Do other teams make these trades between each other just to spite us?

    On the Eakins thingy, perhaps he just accepts that whatever happens, he’s out before Smith and Buchy.

  28. justDOit says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Thanks – I’ve read those tags and attributes, but a simple example would be much more effective in training these old brain cells. I can embed links on reddit, and a few other sites, but those tricks don’t work here.

  29. gr8one says:

    Where are these Columbus suggestions coming from, did I miss something?

  30. justDOit says:

    Uh oh.

    “Devan Dubnyk came from Edmonton and.. let’s just say he has some bad habits.” – #Preds Head Coach Barry Trotz on @949Game2. #Oilers #NHL

  31. theres oil in virginia says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Alright, it took a couple of attempts. (I’m such a noob.) I don’t think you need the title part at all. After the href=”” part finish with a rightarrow and then the text of what you want in the link, followed by (leftarrow)\a(rightarrow).

    Check out the syntax that you get in the comment box when you click reply. Copy that, basically.

  32. Young Oil says:

    I hope to Gord that Dubinski and Nikitin were the targets during the game that was scouted. Both would help our team immensely.

    Dubinski would be one of the few guys I would be willing to trade our first rounder for. He is an ideal #2C for this team.

    Kekalainen has also stated he likes smaller, skilled players. Might be one of the few places that we could trade Gagner to.

    I wonder if our 1st rounder, Gags, and Musil could bring back the CBJ first rounder, Dubinski, and Nikitin. Or something along those lines, moving down a dozen or so picks to make up the difference between Gagner and a #2C.

  33. steveb12344 says:

    Young Oil:
    I hope to Gord that Dubinski and Nikitin were the targets during the game that was scouted. Both would help our team immensely.

    Dubinski would be one of the few guys I would be willing to trade our first rounder for. He is an ideal #2C for this team.

    Kekalainen has also stated he likes smaller, skilled players. Might be one of the few places that we could trade Gagner to.

    I wonder if our 1st rounder, Gags, and Musil could bring back the CBJ first rounder, Dubinski, and Nikitin. Or something along those lines, moving down a dozen or so picks to make up the difference between Gagner and a #2C.

    I’m sure The Oilers would love to get Dubinski, but no chance they will give up a potential (likely?) first overall pick for him.

  34. hunter1909 says:

    Yakupov all but alienated from the team, will probably get traded and star for another team over the next 10-15 years, possibly at superstar level(I think the kid’s a misunderstood genius myself).

    RNH has significantly regressed this season and has lost a large part of that killer mojo he exhibited prior to this season.

    Taylor Hall (ffs!!) the 2x Memorial Cup MVP(HOW MANY OF THESE ARE THERE) plays just hard enough to put up enough points to deflect the heat he might get otherwise, but clearly has other things going on in his mind beside winning hockey games.

    Justin Schultz has gone from uber rookie to Tom Poti but worse.

    Jason Eberle, like Hall is putting up points still but they seem to come at the end of games that are out of reach.

    Dallas Eakins is a micro-managing idiot. I once had a coach like that. Everything you do is wrong, even when you know it’s not wrong and so in the end you simply play the style demanded, simply to keep the coach off of your back. Everyone else on the team does the same, and before you know it no one cares much about coming to the rink anymore.

    But the twits at Recall Place keep Eakins though, for “continuity”…all I can say about this is: if you think it’s bad seeing former Oilers playing for the LAKings winning cups while Oilers stumble about in the doldrums, just wait until 2 or 3 of the above mentioned players are run out of town, only to blossom as star players ‘for years and years to come’.

    Eakins will still be micro managing everything, and the top talent will continue to wither on the vine. That’s how the little shit operates, period.

  35. RexLibris says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    If Gagner plus Klefbom got you Jack Johnson, would you make the deal?

    If I were a Blue Jackets fan, yes.

    As an Oilers fan? Depends. Do I have an up to date Do-Not-Resuscitate order in place?

  36. Pouzar says:

    hunter1909: Yakupov all but alienated from the team, will probably get traded and star for another team over the next 10-15 years, possibly at superstar level(I think the kid’s a misunderstood genius myself). RNH has significantly regressed this season and has lost a large part of that killer mojo he exhibited prior to this season. Taylor Hall (ffs!!) the 2x Memorial Cup MVP(HOW MANY OF THESE ARE THERE) plays just hard enough to put up enough points to deflect the heat he might get otherwise, but clearly has other things going on in his mind beside winning hockey games. Justin Schultz has gone from uber rookie to Tom Poti but worse.Jason Eberle, like Hall is putting up points still but they seem to come at the end of games that are out of reach.Dallas Eakins is a micro-managing idiot. I once had a coach like that. Everything you do is wrong, even when you know it’s not wrong and so in the end you simply play the style demanded, simply to keep the coach off of your back. Everyone else on the team does the same, and before you know it no one cares much about coming to the rink anymore. But the twits at Recall Place keep Eakins though, for “continuity”…all I can say about this is: if you think it’s bad seeing former Oilers playing for the LAKings winning cups while Oilers stumble about in the doldrums, just wait until 2 or 3 of the above mentioned players are run out of town, only to blossom as star players ‘for years and years to come’. Eakins will still be micro managing everything, and the top talent will continue to wither on the vine. That’s how the little shit operates, period.

    With all due respect that is a bunch of HFOil nonsense.

    But if you are trolling well done. You got me.

  37. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Hmmm. interesting.

    Do you think they’d move him? Is he an upgrade on our stockpile?

    http://www.capgeek.com/player/2058

    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?7646

    He hasn’t been extended yet. Unsigned RFA D still young, still in the AHL.. what does that even cost?

    And the funniest part of this rumour, is the Flames angle. Here it is in a nutshell:

    Sutter trades a conditional 1st for Jokinen. Decides to use it on Erixon in 2008, foregoing the 2009 pick. The Coyotes then use the pick on Brandon Gormley in ’09.

    As the deadline for signing picks approaches in June of 2010 rumours swirl that Erixon refuses to sign with Calgary, at the time he is their best (read: only) prospect. So Feaster trades him to the Rangers for Roman Horak (yes, that Roman Horak) and two 2nd round picks.

    Erixon’s father is rumoured to have made a handshake deal with Glen Sather to get his son to play for his old team. Flames fans curse Erixon to this day.

    If he became an Oiler it would add a hilarious twist to the BoA.

    Personally, I think the Oilers are looking at Johansen and trying to determine what it takes to get him.

  38. Lowetide says:

    I wonder about Howson’s connections to all of these guys. when I posted the “D” from extra skater the other day and included Nikitin, realized Howson made the deal to get him.

    SO, that’s a really interesting connection. I wonder if EDM can trade for him after the season and before free agency?

    I don’t think Dubinsky shakes loose for a long, long time.

  39. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris: Personally, I think the Oilers are looking at Johansen and trying to determine what it takes to get him.

    Should have done is last year when the wonder Finn wasn’t impressed with RyJo.

    Have to find these guys in awkward situations and exploit it.

    No point hitting on a married lady the night she makes up with her husband.

  40. Woodguy says:

    From the previous thread, if I may

    VOR,

    I get that coming to 194 years for 56 players to become “1st pairing” an average of 3.464 so lets round to 3.5.
    50% are first pairing in 3 years or less but 4 is the most common number.

    That looks about right.

    Thanks for gathering the data by hand, I know its a real grind and work.

    That leaves when “they are effective at 1st pairing minutes” and how you measure it.

    I’d imagine some can do it right away, some in a year or two, and some who play there never really are effective.

    So if we add ~1 year to the time they make the minutes, which seems reasonable and fair, it ends up 4.464 years from time of drafting until they are effective at 1st line minutes.

    So about 4-5 years.

    Thanks again for the work Vor.

  41. striatic says:

    At this point I think you pretty much fire the entire management group.

    Even if there are talented minds in there, you will achieve more by being absolutely sure the house is clean.

    No one in that group is so good that they can’t be replaced.

  42. Lowetide says:

    Young Oil:
    I hope to Gord that Dubinski and Nikitin were the targets during the game that was scouted. Both would help our team immensely.

    Dubinski would be one of the few guys I would be willing to trade our first rounder for. He is an ideal #2C for this team.

    Kekalainen has also stated he likes smaller, skilled players. Might be one of the few places that we could trade Gagner to.

    I wonder if our 1st rounder, Gags, and Musil could bring back the CBJ first rounder, Dubinski, and Nikitin. Or something along those lines, moving down a dozen or so picks to make up the difference between Gagner and a #2C.

    If we’re connecting the dots, wasn’t Kekalainen the scouting director when STL drafted David Perron?

  43. Woodguy says:

    justDOit:
    Sorry for the long URL – if someone can school me on inserting links on this site, feel free.

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q82/s720x720/1551605_580582098693216_1776656938_n.jpg

    This site is great.

    Gives a little template and everything.

  44. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: SO, that’s a really interesting connection. I wonder if EDM can trade for him after the season and before free agency?

    If it goes that long… why not simply sign him for cash?

  45. hunter1909 says:

    Pouzar,

    No problem.

  46. SK Oiler Fan says:

    4. Fire the goalie coach.
    5. Fire the pro scouts.
    You know, Trotz’s comment is really telling. When an unprovoked comment like that comes from outside the org you know it’s genuine (I don’t believe much coming from within the org).
    He’s either pointing at the org as a whole (as in everything that org touches turns to shit) or at the goalie coach (as in what the hell were you telling this guy?) or both.
    Regardless it just confirms more incompetence within the org.

  47. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: This site is great.

    Gives a little template and everything.

    It’s funny I can read that 3 or 4 times and it still looks like nonsense to me.

    It’s that kind of failure to understand that I imagine the anti-stats crowd experiences.

    One day… I’ll finally do it and a whole new world of experience will be available to me.

  48. hunter1909 says:

    It’s 11:59…Eakins Cinderella run to the NHL is about to turn back into a pumpkin, lol.

  49. Woodguy says:

    theres oil in virginia: Hehe.I know, I feel like I’m trolling WG, but honest I’m not.

    **blinks eyes and puts on innocent face**

    Maybe I should have started lower:If Gagner plus Gernat got you Jack Johnson, would you make the deal?Point being, would you be unhappy to get JJ if he cost less than one of the stars?

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24/1892938/jack-johnson-is-not-good

    http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/23/just-how-bad-is-jack-johnson/

    http://inwordsandphrases.wordpress.com/2013/05/15/cbj-2013-worst-defensemen-jack-johnson-and-dalton-prout/

    http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/2/24/2822018/dumping-johnson-just-as-important-as-adding-carter-for-kings

  50. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The other thing about Nikitin is that he’s had a lot of experience with Belov. If they nab him, I bet dollars to donuts they re-sign belov.

  51. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: This site is great.

    Gives a little template and everything.

    Bah! I was on that site, but didn’t see that page, so I bailed and went elsewhere. That’s perfect. Right under the big letters saying “HTML Link Syntax” where nobody would ever expect it to be.
    :)

  52. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    The other thing about Nikitin is that he’s had a lot of experience with Belov. If they nab him, I bet dollars to donuts they re-sign belov.

    Christ. Really? well lordy, this idea makes a lot of sense.

  53. DeadmanWaking says:

    justDOit:
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q82/s720x720/1551605_580582098693216_1776656938_n.jpg

    Some people find it easier to learn from the inside out. It’s not the normal presentation.

    Here’s how you format the URL part:

    href=”https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1/q82/s720x720/1551605_580582098693216_1776656938_n.jpg”

    Originally you didn’t need the double quotes around the URL string, but without them some wonky URL might break mysteriously, so real men always put them in, and the standard now recommends this.

    Here’s how you format the display text part:

    <a>This is as Lowe as we go</a>

    You can’t click on that yet, because it doesn’t know where to send you. Think of these as named parentheses. This is a parenthesis called “a” which is used for clickable links. The opening and closing parentheses are the same, except the closing parenthesis adds the / character before the “a”.

    Then you put them together, by adding the href thing as an argument to the opening parenthesis.

    <a href=”https://….that long string…”>This is as Lowe as we go</a>

    And you get this:

    This is as Lowe as we go

    This is standard HTML which is used all over the place, and not a bad thing to know. You’ve actually already learned half of the essential HTML syntax. The hand-coding subset is extremely small.

    I use a Firefox add-on called Make Link. With this installed, I select the text with my mouse on some web page that I wish to use as the display text, and use a pop-up right-click menu to copy that mess of syntax into my clipboard, using the current page’s URL for the href part.

    Then you just come here and go “paste”.

    I’m surprised Romeo glassed so easily. He’s a link-pasting machine.

    Naked URLs work well enough on the day of the thread. They cause eye-bleed for anyone who wants to skim archived discussions.

  54. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    I wonder about Howson’s connections to all of these guys. when I posted the “D” from extra skater the other day and included Nikitin, realized Howson made the deal to get him.

    SO, that’s a really interesting connection. I wonder if EDM can trade for him after the season and before free agency?

    I don’t think Dubinsky shakes loose for a long, long time.

    The Howson connection intrigues and scares me.

    Scared of :

    -Johnson for obvious reasons

    -Umberger full of GRITENSITY but at 32 in May is at the age when GRITENSITY players start to fall off the map. Signed for 3 more years for $4.6

    - maybe Tyutin – Has played first pairing well in the past, but fell off a cliff this year. 31 next year and signed for 4 more years. Might still have it in him, but I wouldn’t want to pay much.

    NOTE: Tyutin’s 2 most common partners are Johnson and Prout. Two lead weights. His numbers might be a mirage caused by those two.

    I don’t know why you’d trade for Nikitin though, he’s a FA at the end of the year.

    MacT did say that he had his eye on someone still on ELC.

    What about Yak for Murray in a do-over from the draft?

    Murray has been getting glowing marks.

    Not an outstanding player, but is referred to like a 27 year old vet who makes the right play every time.

    Boring-good, not high event good.

  55. theres oil in virginia says:

    Rom and WG, thanks for the links RE JJ. I looked at the adv-stats link, and it mostly confirmed what I had already heard, that the Corgis chew his pants leg when he comes around. Also, Dellow “can’t-stands-ya” either JJ, although I’m not so sure that I agree that those 4 goals can be pinned on him. (some of the commenters on that article in agreement.) Also, Todd Richards is mentioned by Dellow as being part of the TeamUSA staff, and JJ got passed over. Todd Richards also plays JJ more than any other d-man on CBJ. Something doesn’t add up there. I see mention of dealing with some of that in the one of the links WG posted, so I’ll read those tomorrow, as it’s old-man-bedtime here in the EST. I think I’ll attempt to watch some CBJ hockey over the next couple of weeks too. It can’t be worse than what I’ve been watching. I don’t have a high opinion of JJ, but I’m not so sure he’s Corgi droppings either.

    Thanks.

  56. prairieschooner says:

    Lowetide: Christ. Really? well lordy, this idea makes a lot of sense.

    Also they both like wearing brown shoes !

  57. Ben says:

    If we get Nikita Nikitin I hope we bring back Pete Peeters to go with.

  58. Woodguy says:

    I like Anisimov a lot.

    I think Dubinsky might be a pipe dream.

  59. Henry says:

    oliveoilers:
    Interesting.Preds pick up Del Zotto for their version of Nick Schultz.Klein was -11 on a good d-corps, heaven knows what he’d be on the Oilers.Do other teams make these trades between each other just to spite us?

    On the Eakins thingy, perhaps he just accepts that whatever happens, he’s out before Smith and Buchy.

    Poile has had a very good couple weeks for his team. Things are loosening up in the marketplace too.

  60. justDOit says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    That’s perfect. I’ve done quite a bit of coding in school, but ended up going into a slightly different part of a technology industry and haven’t created a bug since (if debugging is removing bugs, coding is the creation of). I wouldn’t mind knowing html, bottom to top, but I have enough on my plate and would prefer just an example to remember.

    Other sites use different code to format links in text – like reddit. Makes me say hmmmmmmmml.

  61. DeadmanWaking says:

    I actually came here to say that Bruce was on fire in his Cult piece today. I liked the Malhotra line line.

    I don’t totally agree with Willis.

    high intent + bad outcome = short suspension + large black mark

    low intent + horrific outcome + self contained = long suspension + small black mark

    low intent + horrific outcome + unforeseeable tangle = slap on wrist + tiny black mark

    You can’t do this right without two gradients. Players must 100% foresee any self-contained outcome, or change their how they approach their business. The noggin canopy is off limits to the Blackbeard backhand scythe manoeuvre.

    I have no problem with Kassian doing his douche-baggy wipe gesture if he’s felt the pain half as much as his victim. He didn’t. Not a fraction. The noggin canopy is off limits. End of story.

  62. Henry says:

    RexLibris: And the funniest part of this rumour, is the Flames angle. Here it is in a nutshell:

    Sutter trades a conditional 1st for Jokinen. Decides to use it on Erixon in 2008, foregoing the 2009 pick. The Coyotes then use the pick on Brandon Gormley in ’09.

    As the deadline for signing picks approaches in June of 2010 rumours swirl that Erixon refuses to sign with Calgary, at the time he is their best (read: only) prospect. So Feaster trades him to the Rangers for Roman Horak (yes, that Roman Horak) and two 2nd round picks.

    Erixon’s father is rumoured to have made a handshake deal with Glen Sather to get his son to play for his old team. Flames fans curse Erixon to this day.

    If he became an Oiler it would add a hilarious twist to the BoA.

    Personally, I think the Oilers are looking at Johansen and trying to determine what it takes to get him.

    Johansen sure is big. I’ve just never seen him play that well. Is he really that good? I honestly don’t know. I liked last year’s Nikitin a lot.

  63. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Christ. Really? well lordy, this idea makes a lot of sense.

    Same home club in the K, Omsk.

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=77353

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=80671

    Played together as recently as the lockout and IIRC were D partners at the Worlds last year when MacT scouted Belov.

  64. book¡je says:

    Hey maybe the Oilers finally do that 3 for 1 solving the size issue by bringing in Jack Johnson!

    It’s too perfect for it not to happen.

  65. Lowetide says:

    prairieschooner: Also they both like wearing brown shoes !

    AND one of them drives a Lincoln and the other one can’t say Kennedy!

  66. Romulus Apotheosis says:
  67. DeadmanWaking says:

    justDOit:
    That’s perfect. I’ve done quite a bit of coding in school, but ended up going into a slightly different part of a technology industry and haven’t created a bug since (if debugging is removing bugs, coding is the creation of).

    As many bugs are added during the debugging process (usually) as during the coding process. Unless you’re in the medical sector, large bugs tend to MIRV during the debugging process into smaller bugs that annoy rather than defeat.

    This effect is greatest in systems with a large surface area and a high degree of coupling or integration (aka operating system, window manager, www user agent). The effect is least when the system is insular and self-contained (e.g. ocean data-recoding buoy).

    I wouldn’t mind knowing html, bottom to top, but I have enough on my plate and would prefer just an example to remember.

    Mastering basic XML is the best half hour you’ll ever invest. It’s everywhere. It’s practically ASCII 2.0. HMTL is just a dialect, which means some predefined tag names. The “a” tag in XML is undefined. XML has no default semantics. Syntax identical for anything you’d code by hand. I use about ten HTML tags on a regular basis: a, i, b, blockquote, tt, code, pre plus the document preamble html, head, title, body if I’m coding a small test document by hand. It doesn’t get painful until you learn the styling attributes. Set aside a week for CSS. The box model is nasty. The inheritance model is nasty. The element interactions are nasty. The first you can live with by using the right tools. The second you just get used to (plus you use the right tools). The third will blight your life forever, unless web coding is your only skill and you know it like Lisa.

    Other sites use different code to format links in text – like reddit. Makes me say hmmmmmmmml.

    Make Link does them all. If they don’t come stock, it’s easy to add your own with simple rules. That’s the only reason I installed it originally. By the time I learned my sixth different BB markup language, my fingers began to fumble.

    ***

    Vinny Gambini: [Vinny hears a drip in the motel bathroom] Weren’t you the last one to use the bathroom?

    Lisa: So?

    Vinny Gambini: Well, did you use the faucet?

    Lisa: Yeah.

    Vinny Gambini: Then why didn’tcha turn it off?

    Lisa: I DID turn it off!

    Vinny Gambini: Well, if you turned it off, why am I listening to it?

    Lisa: Did it ever occur to you it could be turned off AND drip at the same time?

    Vinny Gambini: No. Because if you’d turned it off, it wouldn’t drip!

    Lisa: Maybe it’s broken.

    Vinny Gambini: Is that what you’re saying? It’s broken?

    Lisa: Yeah. That’s it, it’s broken.

    Vinny Gambini: You sure?

    Lisa: I’m positive.

    Vinny Gambini: Maybe you didn’t twist it hard enough.

    Lisa: I twisted it just right.

    Vinny Gambini: How could you be so sure?

    Lisa: [sighs] If you will look in the manual, you will see that this particular model faucet requires a range of 10 to 16 foot-pounds of torque. I routinely twist the maximum allowable torquage.

    Vinny Gambini: Well, how could you be sure you used 16 foot-pounds of torque?

    Lisa: Because I used a Craftsman model 1019 Laboratory Edition Signature Series torque wrench. The kind used by Caltech high energy physicists. And NASA engineers.

    Vinny Gambini: Well, in that case, how can you be sure THAT’s accurate?

    Lisa: Because a split second before the torque wrench was applied to the faucet handle, it had been calibrated by top members of the state AND federal Department of Weights and Measures… to be dead on balls accurate!

    [She rips a page out of a magazine and hands it to him]

    Lisa: Here’s the certificate of validation.

    Vinny Gambini: Dead on balls accurate?

    Lisa: It’s an industry term.

    Vinny Gambini: [tosses paper away] I guess the fucking thing is broken.

  68. LostBoy says:

    RexLibris: Personally, I think the Oilers are looking at Johansen and trying to determine what it takes to get him.

    A 6′ 3″ R-handed C on pace for 32 goals at age 21?

    Lots. And he’s a big pale blue circle in the nasty upper left quadrant:

    http://www.extraskater.com/team/columbus-blue-jackets/2013

    And he’s 52.1% on faceoffs and leads Columbus in draws taken by a mile.

    It would probably take something we can’t face giving up. One of the core or a package beginning with the first. Can’t see it happening. Don’t know why Columbus would move him. The Oilers for sure covet him – he was heavily rumoured to be Tambellini’s Plan B with his trade package when he couldn’t get Chiarelli to bite on Seguin on draft day in 2010. I’d love to see him as an Oiler, but I think that ship has sailed.

  69. justDOit says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    That is Ma newer!

  70. flyfish1168 says:

    I believe Johansen would be an untouchable from the CBJ point of view. Center is the most important position of the forwards. It would set their rebuild back. Plus CBJ are in a playoff position

  71. Zelepukin says:

    SK Oiler Fan:
    4. Fire the goalie coach.
    5. Fire the pro scouts.
    You know, Trotz’s comment is really telling. When an unprovoked comment like that comes from outside the org you know it’s genuine (I don’t believe much coming from within the org).
    He’s either pointing at the org as a whole (as in everything that org touches turns to shit) or at the goalie coach (as in what the hell were you telling this guy?) or both.
    Regardless it just confirms more incompetence within the org.

    For me at least, it definitely reaffirmed the reality that this organisation has a teaching problem. Eakins might be a great teacher and this season’s results are just indicative of how long its going to take to fix the problems with the younger players, or he might be a terrible teacher and we find after the next season, nothing has changed in our existing group.

    I do question the teaching capabilities of our assistant coaching staff. Has Steve Smith really improved any of our young D over the past several years? What value does Buchy actually bring? It was a sad realization when during the Van game, the commentators focused on Van’s assistants record and how they’ll be fine without Torts given that both assistants have a combined record of 134-113-24-23 as NHL head coaches!

  72. Rondo says:

    All of a sudden this group is going to get smart.

    Past results reflects their thinking.

    A new story people get excited with the new story Get use to disappointment. They have a proven record.

  73. fifthcartel says:

    I was wondering why Greg Chase didn’t play last night but it looks like he was suspended for hitting from behind for 1 game.

  74. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    Thanks again. That’s much clearer. Still gives me the night terrors to some degree.

    the href would call me for too many links on the page.

  75. Woodguy says:

    LostBoy: A 6′ 3″ R-handed C on pace for 32 goals at age 21?

    Lots.And he’s a big pale blue circle in the nasty upper left quadrant:

    http://www.extraskater.com/team/columbus-blue-jackets/2013

    And he’s 52.1% on faceoffs and leads Columbus in draws taken by a mile.

    It would probably take something we can’t face giving up.One of the core or a package beginning with the first.Can’t see it happening.Don’t know why Columbus would move him.The Oilers for sure covet him – he was heavily rumoured to be Tambellini’s Plan B with his trade package when he couldn’t get Chiarelli to bite on Seguin on draft day in 2010.I’d love to see him as an Oiler, but I think that ship has sailed.

    Johansen is a great example of patience with young players and not giving them too much at a young age.

    Really struggled at the NHL level until this year.

    Lock out did him good as he got a bunch of reps in the AHL (was also sent down at one point if memory serves during the NHL season)

    Edmonton fans and MSM would have called him a bust and moved on.

    Good lesson on how they handle young Yak.

  76. Dee Dee says:

    For those of you looking to dump Eakins be careful of what you wish for….

    The next coach might be Buchberger, or Smith, cause they have put their time in and have more cups than any other coaches currently in the NHL.

    Or Messier, or Gretzky, or Kevin McClellend. Or some other Boy On The Bus.

  77. Woodguy says:

    Woodguy: This is the key part:NOTE: the * are just so it appears as text so you can read it and not read as HTML code

    * Link text *

    Just copy and paste that into any message board using HTML (most of them)

    where is has “url” insert the web addy you want to link to MAKE SURE THAT THE QUOTE MARKS STAY, JUST REPLACE THE LETTER HTML.

    If I wanted to link to this page it would be:

    * Link text *

    Then, where it says Link text, type want you want your link to say.

    Yeah, that didn’;t work at all.

    Can you delete that post LT?

  78. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Dee Dee:
    For those of you looking to dump Eakins be careful of what you wish for….

    The next coach might be Buchberger, or Smith, cause they have put their time in and have more cups than any other coaches currently in the NHL.

    Or Messier, or Gretzky, or Kevin McClellend. Or some other Boy On The Bus.

    If they pulled the plug early, I think MacT or Nelson would make perfectly fine interim coaches. I wouldn’t sweat either.

  79. Truth says:

    Have any of the coaches changed other than Eakins in the HC position? No? Is it not then he who shall be shot?

    The powerplay worked last year.

    You have to think that the two NHL defensemen would already be here if the price was reasonable. I am not optimistic about their chances of attracting anyone worthwhile in FA. There are very few teams that are not trying to upgrade their D, probably none.

  80. Death By Misadventure says:

    Woodguy: NOTE: Tyutin’s 2 most common partners are Johnson and Prout. Two lead weights. His numbers might be a mirage caused by those two.

    Man, if only Woodguy was around to dig into this for us. :)

  81. Rocknrolla says:

    Havent posted in a while, having a really hard time with ipad, iphone crashing when trying to comment.

    LT two suggestions for some random thoughts on posts/analytics.

    Is there a way to track or compare how much time (minutes) the oilers have been leading and trailing this year? I would guess that the trailing numbers would just be terrible, but moreso this year it seems like they lose all confidence after being down 1. Would love to look at this or see if someone could compare this and past years maybe.

    Other thing I was thinking about is what if you could go back in time, stay with me, and make the right moves. Seems with all the management bashing lately, it would be interesting to do a walkthrough, full rosters, cap hits, in front of you, and make your list of transactions, starting from the day you as GM hears from a reporter that Pronger wants a trade. I think with some of the minds here, including yours LT, would have some interesting versions of what the lets say 50 main transactions would look like, and what that roster and staff would look like today. Obviously there will be trades and signings that would have to be kept in the reasonable realm, and certain assumptions, but I think it would be interesting to say what if, these drafts, these signings, these trades, and eliminate the Lowe/Tambo mistakes from 2006-2013, and see what we would come up with.

    As a final treat if anyone has not seen this fight from a couple days ago of recently traded preds D man Klein, its an old fashioned chuck-em fight all offense, no defence and was exhilarating to watch!

    http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/121700

  82. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy,

    I remember Howson getting defensive when asked about Johansen when he was still GM. He said that the Jackets had taken a gamble on him that high in the draft and weren’t going to let other teams swoop in and take him the moment he had some struggles.

    I figure Howson is probably still in love with him.

    Nikitin is an interesting name. Has come up often here in the past.

    So help me Gord if the Oilers trade for J. Johnson…

  83. PunkInDrublic says:

    So for the experts in the room…

    Given our surplus of skilled wingers and Columbus’s abundance of centers… Would Yak for Johansen work for both teams? I’d do it, would the Jackets?

    Their leading scorer for a kid with the potential for 40-50G.

  84. RexLibris says:

    Flames win tonight and open up a five point lead on the OIlers with a game in hand.

  85. RexLibris says:

    Lazar with three straight goals and an assist in the game tonight.

    Edgars Kulda with assists on all of Lazar’s goals and a goal…assisted by Lazar.

  86. Melman says:

    Woodguy:
    I like Anisimov a lot.

    I think Dubinsky might be a pipe dream.

    Here, here on Anisimov! RNH, Anisimov, Gordon & Hendricks/Arco down the middle while not perfect is an improvement and I would consider it a solid if not spectacular bridge move.

  87. Numenius says:

    If Eakins can find an associate coach like Krueger to make up for his deficiencies, ideally someone who connects with Yak, can coach a powerplay, and generally is more good cop than bad cop, then I’d be fine with letting him have another year. Nelson might even be the ideal choice.

    If that doesn’t happen, having Eakins for another year seems like a waste of time, no matter how many D you add.

  88. jp says:

    Lowetide:
    I wonder about Howson’s connections to all of these guys. when I posted the “D” from extra skater the other day and included Nikitin, realized Howson made the deal to get him.

    So, are we at all concerned that Nikitin is playing 3rd pairing minutes against weak comp with middling results? He had a nice year in 11-12, but has been nothing special since. Not bad or anything, but not a clear top 4 D on a decent team. If he is the target hopefully expectations aren’t too high.

    Also from BTN, Holy PDO!!! Paajarvi brought a little loser with him StL, but otherwise, wow!

  89. LostBoy says:

    RexLibris:

    He said that the Jackets had taken a gamble on him that high in the draft

    He may have said that, but there is no way Johansen was a reach pick. Bobby Mac had him at six:

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=24944

    There were two significant sliders dealt out of the equation (Fowler, eventually taken 12th, and Gormley, 13th).

    Accounting for that, he basically went exactly where McKenzie had him. He was lower on other lists (like central scouting), but McKenzie is basically the gold standard for what teams are actually thinking as the draft approaches.

  90. Lowetide says:

    jp: So, are we at all concerned that Nikitin is playing 3rd pairing minutes against weak comp with middling results? He had a nice year in 11-12, but has been nothing special since. Not bad or anything, but not a clear top 4 D on a decent team. If he is the target hopefully expectations aren’t too high.

    Also from BTN, Holy PDO!!! Paajarvi brought a little loser with him StL, but otherwise, wow!

    Nikitin isn’t facing top pairing minutes, but he’s a big mobile defender who should be able to play the Eakins style. You’re not going to pay him $6M a year, and he isn’t going to be Pronger.

    If the Oilers begin next season with LD of Nikitin, Ference, Marincin, and RD of Petry, J Schultz, Potter, that’s not enough. However, he’s an interesting option to look at and his 11-12 season is worth looking at more closely.

  91. VOR says:

    Woodguy,

    No Woodguy, thank you.

    I agree completely that we should add a year. So what you are saying is that for Hall of Fame guys they average just under 3 years to be true stud 1D and for 50% of the first pairing guys currently at work in the NHL they became Stud D men in an average of 2.71 years. So we won’t be hearing any more nonsense about how you can’t draft for a stud Dman because it takes them 4 to 5 years to arrive at that status because we have now agreed there are two classes of top pairing D, fast learners and slow learners and that the 4 ot 5 year number comes from an inappropriate averaging of a mix of apples and oranges (fast and slow developing D).

    If we could only identify which is which (who gets there fast, and who takes the Brian Campbell highway) we could now safely draft a stud D and have them arrive just in time to lead the Oilers to a Stanley Cup. We could also look for bargains in stud D just arriving at 6 years post draft and coming into their own and create the greatest D the NHL has ever seen. Think what an advantage that would give the Oilers.

    Since I have been doing the heavy lifting up until here you should probably take responsibility for coming up with the way of figuring out which draft eligible defencemen this year fit into each category. By the way, I do have an algo that works for this task (in that it significantly separates exisitng NHL and AHL players into the two catergories) but I am sure you can do better so I think you should do the number crunching this time. Fair is fair after all. I am very eager to hear your creative new approaches to this problem. I am sure so are many other posters as well as our host.

    I am so glad you have given up your superstitions and decided to join the hard headed realists.

    I look forward to working with you on this exciting project.

  92. LostBoy says:

    So the talk now:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Eakins+wants+Oilers+coaching+carousel/9419121/story.html

    …is that you can basically write off from here to the Olympics, in so many words. They’re going to have a “mini-camp” after the break and Eakins is more or less promising the final 22 games after that will see things looking up.

    And, you know, I’m fine with that, if he can deliver. The prospects of improvement as compared to the general upward trend of the last few seasons are gone. But if he can deliver a genuine resurgence over the final quarter, I’ll buy. I think it’s really important that the team have something to build on to finish the year.

    We’ll see.

  93. Numenius says:

    Sorry for being stuck on the coaching question, but here’s another thought I had related to my hobby horse:

    I wonder how much Keith Acton’s hiring made the difference in whether or not this year went to hell.

    He’s only once long ago been more than an assistant coach in the NHL, he’s never had a head coaching job at junior or AHL, and he seems to have little rapport with the players. I’m sure the players have nothing against him and that he brings a lot of added technical expertise to the table, but he’s a pretty cold fish and not exactly an inspiring morale booster, which is where Eakins also has deficiencies.

    Since having at least someone on the coaching stuff to fill that inspiring leadership role seems necessary, especially with such a young roster, I’d think that hiring a different associate who had these strengths could have made a huge difference.

  94. gogliano says:

    RexLibris:
    Flames win tonight and open up a five point lead on the OIlers with a game in hand.

    Loser standings by point percentage:

    BUF 0.344
    EDM 0.346
    CAL 0.402
    FLA 0.470
    NYI 0.471

    All other teams are 0.500 or over.

    FLA/NYI are basically out of the picture and Calgary is opening up some decent space.

    Big Games:

    Feb 3 Oilers @ Sabres
    Mar 1 Flames @ Oilers
    Mar 20 Sabres @ Oilers
    Mar 22 Flames @ Oilers

    If the Oil stay putrid through March their Cali heavy schedule in April will do the rest. 6 of their last 10 games are against the California teams.

  95. gogliano says:

    Lowetide:
    http://triblive.com/sports/dejankovacevic/dejancolumns/5448123-74/sports-com-letang#axzz2rCTwpoCe

    crazy.

    What the Pens really need is a defenseman that knows how to win and who has the C on his chest for a reason. Shero is asking for Andrew Ference if he knows whats what.

    Let’s get the word out.

  96. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    THat Letang thing is nuts.

    so… mix them up!

    Gagner + Klefbom… right, guys!?

  97. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    Nikitin is a UFA, so I would hope the Oilers would be smart enough not to unload anything worth substance for a player going into free agency or have a trade and sign in place.

    As for Umberger he has a NTC till 14/15, so I’m not sure the Oilers have a lot of interest in a player that most likely would full stop a deal.

    I’m not sure Davidson would ever part with Ryan Johansen now.

    As mentioned everywhere if the Oilers use even basic analytics Jack Johnson will not be part of the Oilers plan.

    Which leaves three players I really only see the Oilers targeting.

    Dubinsky, he has two season’s left after this and Davidson might feel that resigning Dubinsky might not happen, so Davidson sells high now.

    Murray, the Oilers might be interested, but I doubt Davidson trades this kid.

    Jenner, young big two way centre, the Oilers might try & by low like they should have with Johansen.

    That’s my take on the CBJ, just an observation & not much stats to back it up except the obvious ones.

  98. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    great stuff from Eakins today on too many coaches over the past years: “players heads spinning”

    and treating the after break as a mini training camp and a set up for next year’s TC.

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=544368&catid=4

  99. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Kharia with an assist tonight.

  100. Bank Shot says:

    I’m not sure I buy the “too many coaches” angle. Tonnes of successful NHL players get traded in junior, play in the WJs, then spend time in the AHL and have been through a few coaches in a few years by the time they make the NHL.

    The Flames had been through a few coaches in the years before Darryl Sutter came and whipped them into shape. If Eakins is the guy to take this team to the next level then you keep him, but you don’t keep him because there have been too many coaches already.

  101. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bank Shot:
    I’m not sure I buy the “too many coaches” angle. Tonnes of successful NHL players get traded in junior, play in the WJs, then spend time in the AHL and have been through a few coaches in a few years by the time they make the NHL.

    The Flames had been through a few coaches in the years before Darryl Sutter came and whipped them into shape. If Eakins is the guy to take this team to the next level then you keep him,but you don’tkeep him because there have been too many coaches already.

    Well, there’s a difference between a team under one coach rotation the odd player and a player rotating from team to team.

    And, no one is saying to keep Eakins for continuity’s sake. But they are saying the previous lack of continuity may in part be to blame for how shitty they are.

  102. hunter1909 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: But they are saying the previous lack of continuity may in part be to blame for how shitty they are.

    “They”.

    By “they” do you mean Katz, Lowe, MacT, Acton, Bucky, Smith, none of whom to my knowledge has any kind of experience in the NHL other than having once been an NHL hockey player for the Oilers? MacT wears glasses of course but…

    Otherwise perfectly reasonable fans/people of all tiers, oscillate between common sense(fire everyone starting with Lowe), or at least replace the worst coach in the history of the franchise(Eakins) with someone steady(Red Deer’s Sutter would astonishingly might still do it) and drink from the poisoned chalice that’s Your 2000-2014 Edmonton Oilers…

    but…but…

    Then the senior management (Katz/Lowe) pull a time tested stall on those fans willing to listen), in this case a letter from Katz which might as well be from my kindergarten teacher judging from it’s overall tone/effect(I’ve got a fearful hangover you have to forget my syntax) and suddenly Eakins with his 5 game losing streak vs 2 game win streak model immediately becomes a reasonable proposition.

    You have to admire Katz and Kevin Lowe to a huge extent. They know every small town small market trick in the book. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the 1st of those magical 1st overall picks foolishly squandered…and the 1971 Western Conference expansion style no-build will astonish younger fans after 5-7 years of mediocre hockey, (with former 1st overall picks all dealt for MacT type players) routinely starring in Cup finals, Olympic gold medal games etc.

  103. Woodguy says:

    VOR,

    So what you are saying is that for Hall of Fame guys they average just under 3 years to be true stud 1D and for 50% of the first pairing guys currently at work in the NHL they became Stud D men in an average of 2.71 years. So we won’t be hearing any more nonsense about how you can’t draft for a stud Dman because it takes them 4 to 5 years to arrive at that status because we have now agreed there are two classes of top pairing D, fast learners and slow learners and that the 4 ot 5 year number comes from an inappropriate averaging of a mix of apples and oranges (fast and slow developing D).

    Well, yes and no.

    You can’t tell someone might be a Hall of Famer in their draft class.

    You showed that Hall of Famers develop earlier, and I’ll buy that, but they are Hall of Famers.

    Then you showed that D playing 1st pairing minutes (good, bad and meh at it) take just under 4 years to playing those minutes on average.

    That doesn’t equate into expecting a D drafted high to step into 1st pairing minutes within 3 years, because you are assuming results from a different sample of players.

    The D playing top minutes from your list come from a variety of draft slots.

    I’m still pretty comfortable saying 4-5 years before being a 1st pairing Dman.

    To figure out what you are saying, I think you’d have to look at X top D drafted and how long it took them (if at all) to get there.

    Should we look at all D taken in the 1st round? All D taken in the top 20, top 15?

    I’m up to looking at it, but I’m working on something else in the little spare time I have.

    I could get at it sometime in February.

    What do you think the parameters should be?

    I also think we’d need to come up with a definition of “being good at it”, because throwing a kid in over his head (aka The Oiler Way) isn’t success.

    We also need to come up with a number less than 0 for those who wash out completely because of how valuable top picks are. (i.e. Bogosian gets a different score than Hickey even though neither play top pairing minutes. Bogo was obviously a better pick and needs to be reflected in the scores)

    I think this will be interesting.

  104. maudite says:

    Woodguy:
    VOR,

    So what you are saying is that for Hall of Fame guys they average just under 3 years to be true stud 1D and for 50% of the first pairing guys currently at work in the NHL they became Stud D men in an average of 2.71 years. So we won’t be hearing any more nonsense about how you can’t draft for a stud Dman because it takes them 4 to 5 years to arrive at that status because we have now agreed there are two classes of top pairing D, fast learners and slow learners and that the 4 ot 5 year number comes from an inappropriate averaging of a mix of apples and oranges (fast and slow developing D).

    Well, yes and no.

    You can’t tell someone might be a Hall of Famer in their draft class.

    You showed that Hall of Famers develop earlier, and I’ll buy that, but they are Hall of Famers.

    Then you showed that D playing 1st pairing minutes (good, bad and meh at it) take just under 4 years to playing those minutes on average.

    That doesn’t equate into expecting a D drafted high to step into 1st pairing minutes within 3 years, because you are assuming results from a different sample of players.

    The D playing top minutes from your list come from a variety of draft slots.

    I’m still pretty comfortable saying 4-5 years before being a 1st pairing Dman.

    To figure out what you are saying, I think you’d have to look at X top D drafted and how long it took them (if at all) to get there.

    Should we look at all D taken in the 1st round?All D taken in the top 20, top 15?

    I’m up to looking at it, but I’m working on something else in the little spare time I have.

    I could get at it sometime in February.

    What do you think the parameters should be?

    I also think we’d need to come up with a definition of “being good at it”, because throwing a kid in over his head (aka The Oiler Way) isn’t success.

    We also need to come up with a number less than 0 for those who wash out completely because of how valuable top picks are. (i.e. Bogosian gets a different score than Hickey even though neither play top pairing minutes.Bogo was obviously a better pick and needs to be reflected in the scores)

    I think this will be interesting.

    About 5 years back, I was working on building a draft/develop matrix to help clear up comparing teams records to one another. It was pulling the stats from hockey database and calculated a playe’rs score (by proxy a team by year score) based on two scales: 1. sliding scale on draft position (0.5 top 2, 0.55 top 3-5…etc) and a five point grading system (A. star B. good…etc). I had not finished the linking and had just sort of begun toying with draft position multiplier as it ran the risk of overrating 6th rnd bottom 6′ers compared to earlier picks at first pass. I can’t find it now and wish I could (on some forgotten hard drive in a box somewhere) as a much clearer draft/development assessment tool needs to still be established (I really struggle with that 200 gp not factoring talent or really draft position into equation still).

    Anyways, what you are talking about seems like it needs a similar type matrix approach for level of skill and draft position…If you build from that angle it will be a lot easier to pull a great deal of different takes on the data that could be used for a lot of different queries.

  105. season not played says:

    Eakins should be fired. The fact that he won’t be run off is only a reflection of the corner the team has backed itself into with its casual dismissal of previous coaches. That they have put themselves in this position is yet another stunning display of ineptitude by this management group.

  106. PhrankLee says:

    All I can think of are Jay Feaster and his comments in 2011. And still we wander in the desert. Canceling my cable subscription. Not staying up to 10:30 waiting for the game to start, (I live in Toronto, which is doubly humiliating in and of itself). My 16 year old son who wears an Oiler jersey to school every game day has stopped the practice and this makes me angry and sad. He has lived here in Toronto since 2005. It’s a true life example of heroism gone wrong. Leaders get results over time. We fired the guy we hired to fix things only to hire the guy HE fired in order to fix things. My son has carried the faithful torch for the Edmonton Oilers in Toronto since he was 9. He is tired of the jokes. The Oilers are losing him and I withdraw any monetary participation on my part from this team. I am disgusted with this franchise. Mostly because Jay Feaster has been dead on the money about us. LT wrote an article about it and like him I believed we would address those needs in the organization.
    LT article: http://oilersnation.com/2011/9/2/ouch-burrrrnnn/page/1

  107. gcw_rocks says:

    Love JW’s article on ON comparing coaches.

    http://oilersnation.com/2014/1/22/comparing-coaches

    It would appear that Eakins is no better than Krueger. He is suffering from some poor goaltending, but some of that is at least of MacT’s making, so my sympathy level is low. JW also points out that Eakin’s is getting schooled on the road, badly.

    So, the west to west comparison indicates firing Krueger and hiring Eakins was a waste of time. In fact, if you believe Krueger was smart enough to improve, probably hurt the team’s performance this year.

    Well done, MacT, well done.

    This team has too choices, live with Eakins and hope he can figure out how to coach on the road, or hire a very experienced replacement.

  108. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: http://www.coppernblue.com/2012/2/24/1892938/jack-johnson-is-not-good

    http://hockeyanalysis.com/2012/02/23/just-how-bad-is-jack-johnson/

    http://inwordsandphrases.wordpress.com/2013/05/15/cbj-2013-worst-defensemen-jack-johnson-and-dalton-prout/

    http://www.fearthefin.com/2012/2/24/2822018/dumping-johnson-just-as-important-as-adding-carter-for-kings

    Thanks again for dredging those up.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a proponent of acquiring Jack Johnson, but that’s simply due to what I think the cost would be. However, most of these links point to the same metric (Corsi) to evaluate JJ. I’ve seen Corsi (or perhaps Corsi-Rel or some other adjustment) used to argue that Nick Schultz was the Oilers best defenseman (last year, I think), and my reaction to that was that if Corsi says that, then Corsi is a flawed metric when used to evaluate an individual player. I’ve seen plenty of discussion here about how Corsi (particularly Corsi-For) is driven more by forwards than d-men. I’ve seen CBJ’s list of forwards…it looks pretty bad, especially since they unloaded 3 of them (2 pretty good ones in Voracek and Couturier) to acquire Johnson. Leaving that aside (as I’m not really prepared to enter into any sort of full scale engagement on the virtues/perils of Corsi and its variants, and I doubt you have the energy/willpower to do it AGAIN either), one article you posted (hockeyanalysis) lists JJ’s “goals against per 20 minutes of zone start adjusted 5v5 close ice time over the past 2 3/4 seasons” and it ain’t pretty. I don’t think that’s likely to be the perfect way of measuring it either, but the picture that is getting painted is that no matter how you slice it, and no matter how you adjust it, JJ performs worse than his fellow d-men teammates at any metric other than boxcars. If I was formerly under the impression that JJ was a really good #1 d-man, this would give me pause for sure. However, I’m not under that impression, and I think JJ is an adequate d-man who has experience playing against top competition and apparently getting mangled by it too, which still gives me pause.

    I noted also the quotes regarding observations of his d-zone coverage, but I think it’s interesting that you’ve also got guys who clearly have seen him play over the years and they keep trading for him. (Tambo did this with Barker, but I think it’s obvious where that problem lies. Nobody is buying out JJ, like they did with Barker.) The guy (JJ) is clearly an elite athlete, and maybe that’s what keeps them interested. Also left unexplained is that JJ gets ice-time. The closest anyone in those links came to explaining this was “It’s simply a terrible decision.” (wordpress article). Maybe so, but that’s not an explanation. I’ve read here many times that a good (the best?) indicator of who the coach trusts is TOI. It leaves me thinking that there is a real disconnect regarding this player and I’m intrigued to find out why. I hope to get a chance to watch him play regularly over the next few weeks, as that is much more fun than digesting stats whose complexities I still don’t have a firm grasp on, and whose usage I’m still a bit suspicious of.

    I still think JJ is better right now than any of the Oilers current d-men. Maybe that simply speaks to how bad it is right now for the Oil, or maybe I wrong, or maybe JJ isn’t that bad. His contract doesn’t stretch to infinity, although it’s $5M/year and $4.36M cap hit, but that doesn’t scare me too bad. If it didn’t cost an arm and a leg in assets to get him, I’d be okay with it. What scares me is that it would likely take trading Eberle to make it happen (which would, of course, make LT happy!) and I think that JJ is probably who the management are looking at. I’d join you on the “If the Oilers…I’m done” over an Eberle for Johnson trade. (Of course, I also claimed that when they traded Smyth, and here I am.) I think MacT has better sense than to make that trade.

    I think the bottom line for me is what Rom said, that there’s plenty of room between JJ and Weber/Subban, and the Oilers should aim for one of those players.

  109. Andy P says:

    Dee Dee: For those of you looking to dump Eakins be careful of what you wish for….The next coach might be Buchberger, or Smith, cause they have put their time in and have more cups than any other coaches currently in the NHL.Or Messier, or Gretzky, or Kevin McClellend. Or some other Boy On The Bus.

    or Todd Nelson

  110. hunter1909 says:

    Dee Dee:
    For those of you looking to dump Eakins be careful of what you wish for….

    The next coach might be Buchberger, or Smith, cause they have put their time in and have more cups than any other coaches currently in the NHL.

    Or Messier, or Gretzky, or Kevin McClellend. Or some other Boy On The Bus.

    Jim Jones ran his Jonestown People’s Temple on people’s fear of the unknown, too.

    Personally I want Eakins gone for the simple reason he’s destroying my fave Oiler Yakupov; RNH Hall and Justin Schultz are all regressing fast and the team play like frightened wimps.

    Bucky might turn out to be a howling success with these kids, I don’t know. Eakins I do know, and he’s been a total disaster.

  111. hunter1909 says:

    I will say one thing for Lowe and his cronies. Whereas every season since I returned to watching these mugs I’ve always had them returning as a 6th place in Conference team, next season I’m certain they’re going to be out of the running just as fast as this season, provided Eakins remains. I don’t care one way or the other anymore, I mean, who really does?

    Keep Eakins. Make a run at Ekblad and McKinnon, lol.

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