PREDATORS AT OILERS, G54 13-14

In a season where the Edmonton Oilers house is filled rooms on fire, the Kevin Lowe must go story is more about blood than logic. I doubt it will end after Saturday night’s news, but am hopeful we can go back to talking about Craig MacTavish and how he’s going to put out the fires.

flyers333I posted this as a funny follow-up to my opening statement, but it is interesting that MacT/Lowe are in Philly and looking for solutions. I wrote about this over at ON yesterday, but there might be a trade here between the two teams. The Flyers are looking for mobile defensemen, the Oilers are looking for a veteran lefty to anchor their top pairing. Braydon Coburn struggled a year ago but is having a good season in 2013-14 while facing the toughest competition. Coburn and Timonen have formed a solid pairing all year long.

The Flyers may be looking for mobile defensemen and the Oilers have a ton of them. I wonder if the Oilers are interested in Coburn as part of a lefty set that might include Coburn-Marincin-Ference next season? Who knows, but it’s possible. That would effectively block Klefbom and Nurse for next season, I don’t think that’s such an evil thing.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, 99

gretzky4There’s touched by God, and then there’s Gretzky. There was a time when it seemed 99 turned Edmonton into the universe’s center, and that he  would be an Oiler forever, but it was not to be and it all worked out fine. As someone who was gifted with the opportunity to see him at Northlands many times, I can say that as entertainment Gretzky was perfect. Hockey and magic have never looked so good together. There was a time when a giant walked among us.

Happy birthday, Wayne Gretzky.

harry1Brock Otten has the OHL’s Top free agents this season, and the #2 prospect (Tyler Gaudet) looks interesting. I’d love to see the Oilers sign Barclay Goodrow just for the name, and he does look like an interesting player. I assume this is Bob Green’s job now, and as we head into the spring this will become more prominent on the blog. Those free agent signings, college, junior or Euro, are very important to the Oilers future.

JONES

  • “As a player you see the things that are said and written and it’s a Pass The Blame Game. The coaches and management don’t play the game. We play the same system as basically every other team in the NHL, it’s the players that lose. Yet they (coaches and managers) take the blame. It’s about time the guys in this locker room took a little bit of accountability on themselves and stopped letting other people take the blame.”

Hmmm. I think the goaltending and powerplay, plus whatever is being done to Taylor Hall on his shifts (don’t ask me what’s happening, even the smart people don’t know) have impacted the team. These Oilers look beaten, but I don’t know if that’s quitting on the coach or having the brains to know you’re screwed for yet another season. Either way, Jones called out his teammates and we’ll see where it goes. Article is here.

CHASE, MOROZ

moroz mcritchieBruce McCurdy took in last night’s Oil Kings-Hitmen game and paid close attention to the two Oiler draft picks. The article is here. Both prospects are tracking very well, and along with Jackson Houck could have three WHL forwards over 35 goals this year.

DARKNESS WITH HARKNESS

Ned_Harkness2

As difficult as this season has been, there are many NHL seasons that were more trying. My choice for ‘most difficult season to be a fan’ would be Detroit Red Wings, Ned Harkness era. It is covered well and incredibly here.

 

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439 Responses to "PREDATORS AT OILERS, G54 13-14"

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  1. RexLibris says:

    Interesting about Harkness there.

    About two weeks ago I had that same thought about teams that had gone through the Shawshank sewers for what seemed like forever and came out alright on the other side.

    Maybe when the Detroit Model was spoken of a few years back that was the prologue we all failed to read.

  2. RexLibris says:

    Great game at Rexall last night. Chase plays great, Moroz gets a point and the Oil Kings put the Hitmen, a Flames subsidiary, where they belong…on their keisters.

  3. hunter1909 says:

    A Letter from Katz to anyone stupid enough to believe it.

    Now Lowe “offers” to take a temporary powder, and Katz steps up and says No!

    Sounds like even the upper tiers of Recall(I thought I’d typed Rexall, but who knows) now understand they’re running out of time, the iceberg’s not going anywhere, and Dallas Eakins had best stay off his computer.

    PS: The team quit on Eakins about 50 games ago. They’re not “buying in” whatever he tries to sell them now, during the Olympic Break, or ever.

  4. oliveoilers says:

    Hmmm. We have to look at what Jonesy said from all angles. There IS more than meets the eye here. Here’s a few possibilities;

    1. There IS discord within the dressing room with various factions. Whether this started in the Moreau era and carried over is not known, nor if it’s true. Jonesy is sick of it.

    2. Jonesy is letting management know in a public forum that he has bought in and is here for the long haul.

    3. Someone is threatening his job (Hendricks) and he is saying the right things to make any decision to move him a little harder. This maybe because he could genuinely like it here. I can’t deny I’ve seen a marked improvement in his game since the Hendricks trade.

    It could be a combination of the three, there could be deeper reasons. I hope that if there is discord that he hasn’t widened it with his public admonition of the team. He needs to realise that if a multi-million dollar business is struggling, it isn’t the foot soldiers fault. Walmart won’t go under because the shelf stacker in Peace River forgot to put the toilet paper on sale. Clear and decisive leadership is fundamental. People unconsciously realise this when they call for firings, even if they are unwarranted. I think MacT has been clear and decisive, it remains to be seen if he’s been right.

  5. sliderule says:

    Marincin finishes second in fastest skater competition in oiler skills.

    I wonder how many knew he was that fast.

  6. hunter1909 says:

    No idea why anyone even bothers comparing Oilers to old timey teams. Oilers in the 21st century are cementing the foundations of a legacy of suck that’s going to last for a generation.

  7. godot10 says:

    //but am hopeful we can go back to talking about Craig MacTavish and how he’s going to put out the fires.//

    INCLUDING THE ONES HE HIMSELF STARTED,

    1) like hiring a new coach quickly without any formal hiring process.
    2) like perhaps whispering in Katz’s ear, pick Yak, over the scouts who wanted Murray, or a trade down for Reinhart.
    3) like trading a perfectly good centre and LW (Horcoff), leaving the young core with no established trust relationship with team leadership. i.e. New coach, and a new imported captain (who cannot lead by example since he is a role player).

  8. hunter1909 says:

    godot10:
    //but am hopeful we can go back to talking about Craig MacTavish and how he’s going to put out the fires.//

    INCLUDING THE ONES HE HIMSELF STARTED,

    1) like hiring a new coach quickly without any formal hiring process.
    2) like perhaps whispering in Katz’s ear, pick Yak, over the scouts who wanted Murray, or a trade down for Reinhart.
    3) like trading a perfectly good centre and LW (Horcoff), leaving the young core with no established trust relationship with team leadership.i.e. New coach, and a new imported captain (who cannot lead by example since he is a role player).

    Geez. What a troll.

  9. hunter1909 says:

    hunter1909:
    No idea why anyone even bothers comparing Oilers to old timey teams. Oilers in the 21st century are cementing the foundations of a legacy of suck that’s going to last for a generation.

    “For years and years to come”.

  10. stephen sheps says:

    Even if Jones (a player who I don’t really care for) is saying these things to try and save his own ass, the fact is he’s right. This is the first time in a very long time that a player has publicly stated that the inmates are potentially running the asylum. There was a theory floating around these parts, one that’s been routinely discussed by friends and other Oilers fans out here in Ontario, that the team is made up of coach killers insofar as the players have come to recognize a pattern that if they don’t succeed, someone else will lose their job and that the players are safe from any sort of trouble. With that pattern repeating itself from the time Taylor arrived, it demonstrates that there is at least a degree of truth to the theory (not an absolute, not a universal, but a degree). It’s actually a good thing that Jones has spoken up, even if the motivation for the statement was rooted in his own self-serving desire for another contract. It shows that he actually has a bit of passion left, despite the season being all but lost. Hopefully more players look at this rather public calling out and pick up their games a bit. MacT isn’t going anywhere, Eakins surely isn’t, either. Nothing wrong with a player holding his team accountable for their failures.

    That’s not to say that the team will suddenly become competitive. The roster has more holes than swiss cheese (and most of the academic theories I depend upon in my real work), but accountability and passion on the ice in spite of the holes would go a long way to making the players themselves and the fans feel like this team is worth watching, because right now they’re not.

  11. Woodguy says:

    According to:

    Ryan Dittrick ‏@ryandittrick 2m
    Scrivens will start. Hemsky and Ference out.

    Will be interesting to see how the pairs shape up.

    Marincin-Petry
    Belov-JShultz
    NShultz-Potter

    Is my guess.

    Maricin-Petry getting about 25 minutes.

  12. Andy P says:

    hunter1909: Geez. What a troll.

    Pot calling kettle black?

  13. RexLibris says:

    The Jones comment reminded me of Smid’s comments shortly before he was traded.

    Difference being, we all know that Jones is likely gone.

    Some of this could be a heads up to management as well, sort of like Jones offering an impromptu exit interview.

  14. Chris says:

    The Oilers might want to take a long look at Frank Palazzase. We haven’t drafted a ton of goaltenders in the last decade and I’m not really in favour of putting all of our eggs in the Broissoit basket. And a free goaltending prospect to a good home seems exactly what the Oilers should be on the look out for, along with “big tough, two way forward with some offensive ability”.

  15. sliderule says:

    oliveoilers:
    Hmmm.We have to look at what Jonesy said from all angles.There IS more than meets the eye here.Here’s a few possibilities;

    1.There IS discord within the dressing room with various factions.Whether this started in the Moreau era and carried over is not known, nor if it’s true.Jonesy is sick of it.

    2.Jonesy is letting management know in a public forum that he has bought in and is here for the long haul.

    3.Someone is threatening his job (Hendricks) and he is saying the right things to make any decision to move him a little harder.This maybe because he could genuinely like it here.I can’t deny I’ve seen a marked improvement in his game since the Hendricks trade.

    It could be a combination of the three, there could be deeper reasons.I hope that if there is discord that he hasn’t widened it with his public admonition of the team.He needs to realise that if a multi-million dollar business is struggling, it isn’t the foot soldiers fault.Walmart won’t go under because the shelf stacker in Peace River forgot to put the toilet paper on sale.Clear and decisive leadership is fundamental.People unconsciously realise this when they call for firings, even if they are unwarranted.I think MacT has been clear and decisive, it remains to be seen if he’s been right.

    Or the oilers are bad because they don’t have enough good players and the wrong mix

    It doesn’t have to be complicated.

    They are just bad .

    29 or 30 th bad.

  16. Andy P says:

    oliveoilers:
    Hmmm.We have to look at what Jonesy said from all angles.There IS more than meets the eye here.Here’s a few possibilities;

    1.There IS discord within the dressing room with various factions.Whether this started in the Moreau era and carried over is not known, nor if it’s true.Jonesy is sick of it.

    2.Jonesy is letting management know in a public forum that he has bought in and is here for the long haul.

    3.Someone is threatening his job (Hendricks) and he is saying the right things to make any decision to move him a little harder.This maybe because he could genuinely like it here.I can’t deny I’ve seen a marked improvement in his game since the Hendricks trade.

    It could be a combination of the three, there could be deeper reasons.I hope that if there is discord that he hasn’t widened it with his public admonition of the team.He needs to realise that if a multi-million dollar business is struggling, it isn’t the foot soldiers fault.Walmart won’t go under because the shelf stacker in Peace River forgot to put the toilet paper on sale.Clear and decisive leadership is fundamental.People unconsciously realise this when they call for firings, even if they are unwarranted.I think MacT has been clear and decisive, it remains to be seen if he’s been right.

    I put a lengthy comment at the end of the prior blog that covers this subject. I actually think that the problem does lie with the first rounders on the team that went directly from Juniors to the NHL, and never had to proved themselves at the AHL level first, where the fundamentals of NHL hockey and the 200 foot game are perhaps best taught. Nuge excepted, he is the only one of Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Schultz and Yakupov who seem to have “got it”.

    I’m starting to think that Yak doesn’t have it. We may need to accept him as he is, a passionate player who has a devastating shot, and play him accordingly or trade him for what we can get once we have got him going in his comfort zone.

    I’m also hoping we do not trade Hemmers. Such a dedicated, tough, mobile, hard working, 2 way player.

  17. hunter1909 says:

    RexLibris: Some of this could be a heads up to management as well

    Right now I’d wager that “management” feel a lot like German 6th Army Field Marshal Friedrich Paulus did on November 19, 1942.

  18. Woodguy says:

    Jones called out his teammates and we’ll see where it goes

    Joanne Ireland has a piece up that fleshes it out even more and address if the team has quit on the coach.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/Players+must+shoulder+responsibility+Oilers+troubles+Ryan+Jones/9430755/story.html

    Couple key quote:

    “Throughout the time I’ve been here, it seems that the players in this room have gotten away with a lot because (the blame) falls on the shoulders of other people,” Jones said. “We, as a team, need to take responsibility for what’s going on. – Jones

    Gifted kids getting gifted ice time can lead to this over time

    Another one:

    “When we’re on our own, or out to dinner, there’s no talk about that. There’s definitely areas we need to improve on our team, but as far as quitting on the organization or the coach, I don’t see any of that,” Hall said.

    Good to see in print.

  19. Pouzar says:

    Although Jones has been better I look forward to him finally being gone.
    Along with Ryan Smyth. Why the smart people here pine for him is beyond me.
    We need about 10 new players next year and he has to be included in the turnover.

  20. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    Bruins may be looking at Nick Schultz

    http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comments/bruins-still-looking-for-stay-at-home-dman?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    Interesting.

    For the sake of comparison I checked out some other UFA defensemen, limited it to WC teams.

    Other notable names that came up: Sarich, Greene, Hannan, and Fistric to name a few.

    O’Brien was waived yesterday and I would be surprised if anyone took him for free.

    Schultz, as bad as he has been here this season, may be one of the better veteran defensemen available. And if MacTavish could somehow channel a little Doug Wilson and perhaps get a couple of picks that would be an admirable feat.

    One name I’d heard mentioned in relation to the Bruins’ defensive search was Bartkowski. I’d prefer the picks.

  21. Woodguy says:

    All,

    Main reason Oilers are bad is this:

    Marincin-Petry
    Belov-JShultz
    NShultz-Potter

    That’s with only 1 injury, well 2 if you include Larsen.

    I’m not sure today’s Dcorps would be top 5 in AHL.

    That and goaltending.

    And a 2C.

  22. Lowetide says:

    RexLibris: Interesting.

    For the sake of comparison I checked out some other UFA defensemen, limited it to WC teams.

    Other notable names that came up: Sarich, Greene, Hannan, and Fistric to name a few.

    O’Brien was waived yesterday and I would be surprised if anyone took him for free.

    Schultz, as bad as he has been here this season, may be one of the better veteran defensemen available. And if MacTavish could somehow channel a little Doug Wilson and perhaps get a couple of picks that would be an admirable feat.

    One name I’d heard mentioned in relation to the Bruins’ defensive search was Bartkowski. I’d prefer the picks.

    Defensemen ALWAYS have value at the deadline. It’s incredible, but we all remember the Sabres 2006 and they would have killed for this version of Nick Schultz against Carolina that spring.

  23. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers,

    2. Jonesy is letting management know in a public forum that he has bought in and is here for the long haul.

    His contract is up in the summer.

    Not sure if he is here for the long haul.

    Will go as far to say that I’m pretty sure he’s not.

  24. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: Defensemen ALWAYS have value at the deadline. It’s incredible, but we all remember the Sabres 2006 and they would have killed for this version of Nick Schultz against Carolina that spring.

    BUF took a 2-1 lead over CAR into the 3rd period of game 7 of their series.

    I prayed to various gords that BUF win as the Oilers would have steamrolled them in the finals since BUF would have been missing 7 starters for the finals, including 4 Dmen.

    Man.

  25. stephen sheps says:

    Woodguy:
    All,

    Main reason Oilers are bad is this:

    Marincin-Petry
    Belov-JShultz
    NShultz-Potter

    That’s with only 1 injury, well 2 if you include Larsen.

    I’m not sure today’s Dcorps would be top 5 in AHL.

    That and goaltending.

    And a 2C.

    Yup. That’s all very true. The Oilers are bad. But that doesn’t account for taking shifts, or periods or entire games off. With regularity, and for some (but not all), with impunity. I think that might be part of what Jones is getting at.

  26. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    oliveoilers,

    2. Jonesy is letting management know in a public forum that he has bought in and is here for the long haul.

    His contract is up in the summer.

    Not sure if he is here for the long haul.

    Will go as far to say that I’m pretty sure he’s not.

    One thing ALL losing teams have in common: An extremely long list of guys who don’t play in the NHL again.

  27. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: Defensemen ALWAYS have value at the deadline. It’s incredible, but we all remember the Sabres 2006 and they would have killed for this version of Nick Schultz against Carolina that spring.

    I find the perennial departure of GM’s common sense for defensemen at the deadline amusing most of the time. Brilliant when it comes from someone who is typically categorized as a “buyer”, like Wilson’s trade of Murray last year.

    It was a great bit of asset management.

    I hope to see MacTavish do something similar in selling Schultz and a few other UFAs for picks to then turn around and offer those picks at the draft for more immediate help.

  28. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: One thing ALL losing teams have in common: An extremely long list of guys who don’t play in the NHL again.

    Grebeshkov is on that list. KHL bound.

    Who else do you think?

    Jones? I think he find another team. N. Schultz probably gets a contract somewhere with the rising cap. Smyth? Not sure, seems like it’ll be retirement or Oilers.

  29. Woodguy says:

    EDM is 24th in the NHL with a HomeFen of 49.2%

    NSH is 20th in the NHL with a RoadFen of 48.2%

    Another close one that can we won with goaltending and special teams.

    If there is one thing I will lay 100% at Eakin’s feet its the PP. Dreadful.

    Scrivens is starting so I think the Oilers have the best goalie in the contest regardless of who NSH starts.

    Line is EDM +100 and I think there’s value there.

    Missing Ference is a big item since it means Belov is going to get a lot of minutes and he’s been a wandering fool all year.

    He’s been a bit like Fistric.

    Fistric skated out of position to make a big hit and caused odd man breaks.

    Belov skates out of position to forecheck, but is obviously out of sync with the forwards because no one is covering for him when he does.

    I wonder how much of that is on the forwards and how much is on him?

    I think EDM wins 4-3 with 1 powerplay goal for and none against.

    Go Oilers!!

    *clap,clap*

  30. rickithebear says:

    There is only so much PP time in a Game.
    a first unit and a 2nd unit.
    the game is highly dependent on EVG production.
    I have shown the Major level of Suck from Chicago 1996 to 2007.
    winning teams like them have great eveG production 10-12 players deep.

    Look at the upper 2nd line EVG (top 150) scoring from oilers since Katz took over.
    08-09 (12) Hemsky 14; Coga 14; Moreau 13; Penner 12.
    09-10 (12) Penner 23; Brule 15
    10-11 (12) Jones 15; Hall 14; Penner 14; Ebs 12; Hemsky 12; MP 12
    11-12 (12) Ebs 24; RNH 15; Smyth 15; Hall 14; Gagner 12; Jones 12
    12-13 (7) Ebs 13; Hall 12; Yak 11; Gagner 10
    13-14 (7) Hall 14; Perron 12, Ebs 11; RNH 10

    We need top EVG goal production.from 5–12 fwd
    Hall, Rnh, Ebs, Perron, Jones, Yak, have been in top 150 in a healthy top 9 role.
    Gordon and hendricks are on that top 150 barrier playing tough ZS.

    4 of the 8 were signed as ufa or traded for this year.
    I would hope for good egg scoring bottom 6 Forwards as targets.

  31. RexLibris says:

    Also from Kukla’s Korner http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comments/the-price-for-rental-players-will-be-very-high

    Prices at the deadline could be “stupid high”.

    Good news.

  32. Woodguy says:

    stephen sheps: Yup. That’s all very true. The Oilers are bad. But that doesn’t account for taking shifts, or periods or entire games off. With regularity, and for some (but not all), with impunity. I think that might be part of what Jones is getting at.

    I agree.

    Being the best on awful teams isn’t easy and they’re kids who have been given a lot of things in their lives for being good at hockey.

    Its tough watching them grow up in front of you because it isn’t always pretty.

    Many, many pro athletes have stated that its not the pro coaches job to motivate, but to give structure and a game plan.

    If players are playing with low give shit levels I have a hard time pinning that on the coach.

    They’re pros.

    Act like it for fuck sakes.

  33. justDOit says:

    I don’t think I’ll watch this one – maybe catch the condensed version on hockeystreams later. But what I really hope, is that Doobie doesn’t score one against us!

  34. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: I find the perennial departure of GM’s common sense for defensemen at the deadline amusing most of the time. Brilliant when it comes from someone who is typically categorized as a “buyer”, like Wilson’s trade of Murray last year.

    It was a great bit of asset management.

    I hope to see MacTavish do something similar in selling Schultz and a few other UFAs for picks to then turn around and offer those picks at the draft for more immediate help.

    I’d sell all of:

    NShulz
    Potter or Larsen (not both, preferable Potter)
    Belov

    PIT had an interest in Belov before he signed with the Oilers.

    Wonder if you can package up Belov and Gagner for Maata?

  35. stephen sheps says:

    Woodguy,

    Yes. 1000 times yes. Act like pros. Earn those dollars, make it seem like you care, if not for the fans, for yourselves. I know its real easy to sleep at night when you have the financial security of several millions of dollars for the next decade, but christ, act like it matters.

  36. Chris says:

    Rather than trading away players like Eberle for a mediocre defenseman I don’t see why the plan isn’t to sign bridge defensemen. Chris Phillips or a Kimo Timonen etc have likely one or two more years in the tank. Alternatively we could always sign the guys we should have signed last summer for a song Ron Hainsey and Tom Gilbert. Klefbom, Nurse and potentially Ekblad are a three years away from helping. A smart organization would bring in some old horses to make the team competitive now and then start working the kids into the rotation as opposed to trading away thirty goal scorers.

    Sadly a smart organization is not something the oilers have proven to be since 2006.

  37. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy:
    oliveoilers,

    2. Jonesy is letting management know in a public forum that he has bought in and is here for the long haul.

    His contract is up in the summer.

    Not sure if he is here for the long haul.

    Will go as far to say that I’m pretty sure he’s not.

    As I said, a possibility. Value contract for the 4th line? But we know it would start out as that, then some idiot would play him higher in the order. Do not be surprised if they do re-sign him.

  38. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I wrote this the other day at CnB about Schultz and how the narrative of experience has led to some things:

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2014/1/24/5342552/the-nick-schultz-scratch

    Bruce covered some of it in his write up last year on Schultz pairing with younger:

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/06/13/nick-schultz-was-out-of-his-depth-in-top-four-role/

    I think these kinds of reputation moves–defaulting to experience and veteran presence–are going to explain Schultz’ value to other teams… that is beyond the need for literally anyone to help when injuries hit in the post season.

  39. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: I’d sell all of:

    NShulz
    Potter or Larsen (not both, preferable Potter)
    Belov

    PIT had an interest in Belov before he signed with the Oilers.

    Wonder if you can package up Belov and Gagner for Maata?

    Agreed.

    My breaking point with Tambellini came last year when he sat on his hands after Horcoff and Lander both went down.

    But his refusal to sell at the deadline, in a draft as deep as that one, just infuriated me beyond belief.

    Something I learned from Marchant, Joseph and Richardson, unless you really have a chance, don’t hang on to expiring UFAs at the deadline. The value is simply too high.

    Gagner and Belov for Maatta would be interesting. I’m still holding out hope for Kulikov as I think he straddles the line between young and veteran. Tallon has an unhealthy afffinity for draft picks, I wonder how many it would take to pique his interest? ;)

  40. Lowetide says:

    Oilers have to sell, they don’t have any picks. Even a fourth has value.

  41. oliveoilers says:

    RexLibris: Agreed.

    My breaking point with Tambellini came last year when he sat on his hands after Horcoff and Lander both went down.

    But his refusal to sell at the deadline, in a draft as deep as that one, just infuriated me beyond belief.

    Something I learned from Marchant, Joseph and Richardson, unless you really have a chance, don’t hang on to expiring UFAs at the deadline. The value is simply too high.

    Gagner and Belov for Maatta would be interesting. I’m still holding out hope for Kulikov as I think he straddles the line between young and veteran. Tallon has an unhealthy afffinity for draft picks, I wonder how many it would take to pique his interest?

    I don’t see the Pens doing that. They’ll want to see what they have in Maatta, and if they like it, get out of Letang’s contract. If we shoot for Kulikov, why not Campbell?

  42. Woodguy says:

    This is a good read over at C&B: http://www.coppernblue.com/2014/1/13/5304664/is-groupthink-crippling-the-oilers

    Is Groupthink crippling the Oilers organization?

    Read the symptoms of groupthink then watch the Presser of Unending Hilarity:

    Symptoms:

    Illusion of invulnerability
    Belief in inherent group morality
    Collective rationalization
    Stereotype of outsiders
    Self Censorship
    Illusion of unanimity
    Pressure on dissenters
    Self-appointed mindguards

    The presser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-KAoQ6mgNk

  43. hoser313 says:

    No point in Lowe leaving now. Doesn’t accomplish much since MacT appears to be putting his own stamp on things.

    Jones is fine as a 4th liner. I think most of us agree on that.

    If there’s a bidding war for Nultz and Belov that’s great but what’s coming back? Some picks and maybe a 4th line guy at most.

    Is Coburn really a top pair guy? I thought he took a lot of criticism in Phili over the last 2 years. Also, not sure Phili trades this guy while they’re still in the mix.

  44. leadfarmer says:

    Turned on the start of the stadium series. WTF is this. 4 guys singing big girls don’t cry. I can’t watch this.

  45. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers: As I said, a possibility.Value contract for the 4th line?But we know it would start out as that, then some idiot would play him higher in the order.Do not be surprised if they do re-sign him.

    Unfortunately when he’s played higher in the order its been due to him being the best option.

    Goes back to roster make up.

    All of this goes back to roster make up.

    And normally good goalies shitty the bed completely.

  46. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers: I don’t see the Pens doing that.They’ll want to see what they have in Maatta, and if they like it, get out of Letang’s contract.If we shoot for Kulikov, why not Campbell?

    Why would they want to dump Letang?

    He’s great.

  47. Woodguy says:

    hoser313,

    No point in Lowe leaving now. Doesn’t accomplish much since MacT appears to be putting his own stamp on things.

    It gets an incompetent manger out of the decision making group.

  48. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    I wrote this the other day at CnB about Schultz and how the narrative of experience has led to some things:

    http://www.coppernblue.com/2014/1/24/5342552/the-nick-schultz-scratch

    Bruce covered some of it in his write up last year on Schultz pairing with younger:

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2013/06/13/nick-schultz-was-out-of-his-depth-in-top-four-role/

    I think these kinds of reputation moves–defaulting to experience and veteran presence–are going to explain Schultz’ value to other teams… that is beyond the need for literally anyone to help when injuries hit in the post season.

    I had one issue with your piece Rom:

    You suggest Eakins has a blind spot when it comes to Shultz and rookies:

    If he once was, Nick Schultz no longer is a soft landing for cup of coffee hopefuls. And yet, when Eakins looks to his roster for a veteran hand-holder on the blue line, Nick Schultz is the man he cedes responsibility to.

    I’d suggest that NShutlz was his best option for 3LD in those situations.

    Goes back to roster make up.

    Again.

  49. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: Why would they want to dump Letang?

    He’s great.

    Just the dollars. They could get some of those quality secondary players on good contracts they always seem to find. I agree Letang is great. Letang 2.0 possibly on ELC, or bridge contract like Subban + secondary players? Even better.

  50. RexLibris says:

    oliveoilers: I don’t see the Pens doing that.They’ll want to see what they have in Maatta, and if they like it, get out of Letang’s contract.If we shoot for Kulikov, why not Campbell?

    The cap going up means that the Penguins aren’t as handcuffed by Letang’s contract as first feared.

    And Shero has made a habit of sacrificing young D for immediate help. He knows he has two extreme talents in Pittsburgh right now and he wants to get as many cups as he can while they’re there. Windows close quickly and he isn’t going to sit on a prospect if it means a chance at glory.

  51. Lowetide says:

    One thing I believe gets lost when we bring out the lumber and tire irons is that MacTavish has had one summer to change what was an awful period in team history—by design.

    That’s going to take some time, and the next test is this summer. MacT has a plethora of wingers and prospect blue and needs experience on defense, a goalie, and a centerman.

    I’m not really convinced MacTavish is a problem, but it sounds like many do, and sometimes there’s just too much history. That may be the case here.

  52. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: Unfortunately when he’s played higher in the order its been due to him being the best option.

    Goes back to roster make up.

    All of this goes back to roster make up.

    And normally good goalies shitty the bed completely.

    I agree completely. That’s why we’re crap and have next to no picks. This really is the snake eating it’s own tail! Bad day at the office when Jonesy’s your best option for anything other than the 4th line.

  53. commonfan14 says:

    RexLibris: But his refusal to sell at the deadline, in a draft as deep as that one, just infuriated me beyond belief.

    Selling guys off at the deadline last year when they were close to a playoff spot (mirage or no) could have destroyed the team’s relationship with the kids forever.

    I don’t put that one in Tambo’s extensive boneheaded moves column.

  54. Woodguy says:

    One thing has always bugged me about that presser that never got much ink.

    MacT goes on a bit about the “organizational hang over from all the success in the 80′s”

    Really?

    Sounds like externalizing organizational failure to me.

    Since the Oilers won the Cup last, TBY and ANA entered as expansion teams and won the Cup.

    FLA and OTT entered the league as expansion teams and made it to the Cup final.

    SJS entered the league, and while not making it to a Cup final yet, are a perennial powerhouse.

    So MacT says an organization which started the 90′s waaaaay ahead of those I’ve listed is worse than those other orgs due to some “hangover” from being really good in the 80′s?

    That reeks of pure bullshit and can be filed under a few of the Organizational Groupthink sub-headings.

  55. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing I believe gets lost when we bring out the lumber and tire irons is that MacTavish has had one summer to change what was an awful period in team history—by design.

    That’s going to take some time, and the next test is this summer. MacT has a plethora of wingers and prospect blue and needs experience on defense, a goalie, and a centerman.

    I’m not really convinced MacTavish is a problem, but it sounds like many do, and sometimes there’s just too much history. That may be the case here.

    I’ve just been arguing the same point over at FN. Fans there are furious that the Oilers are lined up to get another 1st overall pick. I think they thought this one would be theirs. ;)

    My argument is almost identical there, LT. Tambellini was told to be bad and he excelled. Now they are trying to undo the damage and it comes out that the Oilers couldn’t simply cash in a bunch of prospect chips to turn things around on a dime.

    This summer I’d hope that the Oilers can sign a passable 2C (unless MacTavish somehow trades for a Couturier-type) and then sign someone like Niskanen or even Orpik/Nikitin to add to the blue.

  56. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers: Just the dollars.They could get some of those quality secondary players on good contracts they always seem to find.I agree Letang is great.Letang 2.0 possibly on ELC, or bridge contract like Subban + secondary players?Even better.

    Letang + Letang 2.0 is even better.

    Never assume a good young player will become a good NHLer.

    Fails to happen too often.

    Pouliot looks like the goods, but he’s miles and miles from Letang.

    With the cap going up Letang’s contract doesn’t look out of line either.

  57. Ducey says:

    Chris:
    The Oilers might want to take a long look at Frank Palazzase. We haven’t drafted a ton of goaltenders in the last decade and I’m not really in favour of putting all of our eggs in the Broissoit basket. And a free goaltending prospect to a good home seems exactly what the Oilers should be on the look out for, along with “big tough, two way forward with some offensive ability”.

    He attended Oilers prospect camp this year. I am pretty sure he played in the Oilers/ Bears game.

    So they certainly know who he is.

  58. spoiler says:

    The one reason I am glad Lowe is in Philly with MacT is that he would be there doing the one thing we know he can be good at… evaluating defensemen.

  59. Ducey says:

    Pouliot looks like the goods, but he’s miles and miles from Letang.

    Careful, you might get LT all excited.

  60. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    One thing I believe gets lost when we bring out the lumber and tire irons is that MacTavish has had one summer to change what was an awful period in team history—by design.

    That’s going to take some time, and the next test is this summer. MacT has a plethora of wingers and prospect blue and needs experience on defense, a goalie, and a centerman.

    I’m not really convinced MacTavish is a problem, but it sounds like many do, and sometimes there’s just too much history. That may be the case here.

    I like MacT but he’s misfired a lot in his first year.

    -Signs Jones to $1.5 early in the FA process when many better players were still available
    -Chased Clarkson and threw big $$$ at him
    -Gave Ference a long contract for a 34 year old Dman
    -Banked on unproven D (Belov, Grebs, Larsen) (note: I was onside with this, I was wrong too)
    -etc.

    I hope he’s learned in his first year.

    Learning curves are always very steep at the start.

    I like him better than any other Oiler manager since Sather, but he’s not a slam dunk.

    I don’t think he’s Doug Wilson or Doug Armstrong, or at least not yet.

    Perhaps the Oilers need to hire a Doug? Or a Gord.

  61. hunter1909 says:

    spoiler:
    The one reason I am glad Lowe is in Philly with MacT is that he would be there doing the one thing we know he can be good at… evaluating defensemen.

    Kind of like inviting grandpa to the barbecue because he knows how to fix cars.

  62. docweb says:

    Tier one fan for 12 years. Interesting tidbit from Friday night’s game which I think directly relates to the “Lowe must Go” years of suckage. We have an email list of about 30 people whom we contact when we can’t make a game. We couldn’t go Friday so sent out the email weeks ago.

    No response. For a Friday night game.

    Donated them to charity which is not a real problem with us but just goes to show the level of apathy I think amongst fans. First time that has happened and I don’t think it will be the last.

    And yes, my Oilers Season ticket holder survey was scathing of Lowe and upper management. While they shrug their shoulders and count their money.

  63. RexLibris says:

    commonfan14: Selling guys off at the deadline last year when they were close to a playoff spot (mirage or no) could have destroyed the team’s relationship with the kids forever.

    I don’t put that one in Tambo’s extensive boneheaded moves column.

    I don’t believe the departure of Ryan Whitney would have negatively impacted the dressing room.

  64. spoiler says:

    And in light of the scouts and the braintrust wanting Murray over Yak and then being over-ruled by the owner, I am surprised no one has posed this question:

    Would you rather have Murray and Nichushkin or Yakupov and Nurse?

    (not that anyone knew these were the options at the time Yak was drafted).

    Tough question, and I don’t know that anyone can be sure at this point, but to my eye Murray and Nichushkin would have helped this team sooner and would be a better fit for the roster.

  65. hunter1909 says:

    Katz’s letter + Lowe’s “offer” = Circling the wagons at Recall Place.

    I know how this pioneer stuff works.

  66. RexLibris says:

    Perhaps the Oilers need to hire a Doug?Or a Gord.

    They had a Gord here. Tambellini = Kali, goddess of destruction and desolation.

  67. spoiler says:

    hunter1909: Kind of like inviting grandpa to the barbecue because he knows how to fix cars.

    Kind of, but not really.

  68. hunter1909 says:

    spoiler: Kind of, but not really.

    I know. Just trying to allude some way that Lowe is a grandpa who soon needs putting down.

  69. jp says:

    Woodguy: Why would they want to dump Letang?

    He’s great.

    But if they did want to dump Letang….

  70. RexLibris says:

    spoiler:
    And in light of the scouts and the braintrust wanting Murray over Yak and then being over-ruled by the owner, I am surprised no one has posed this question:

    Would you rather have Murray and Nichushkin or Yakupov and Nurse?

    (not that anyone knew these were the options at the time Yak was drafted).

    Tough question, and I don’t know that anyone can be sure at this point, but to my eye Murray and Nichushkin would have helped this team sooner and would be a better fit for the roster.

    In the 2003 draft Tom Renney advocated for Hugh Jessiman in the 1st round. He’s still employed and considered by many to be a smart hockey man.

    People make mistakes and Yakupov was considered far superior to Murray and Nichushkin plays the wing and has been long considered a KHL flight risk, whereas Nurse addresses an area of organizational development need.

    I don’t think either was the right or wrong decision at the time. Both have justifications.

  71. hunter1909 says:

    Gobsmacked that the majority view around Lowetide pits the players as bad guys – in this ridiculous to everyone who follows hockey outside Edmonton situation etc.

  72. spoiler says:

    RexLibris: I don’t think either was the right or wrong decision at the time. Both have justifications.

    Me neither, as I allude to in my post. And it appears many people in the org thought Murray was the superior player, so the Jessiman example and the Yak superior arguments don’t really hold. But that doesn’t matter, the question is… which would you rather have right now?

  73. Lowetide says:

    hunter1909:
    Gobsmacked that the majority view around Lowetide pits the players as bad guys – in this ridiculous to everyone who follows hockey outside Edmonton situation etc.

    That is framing the issue. Players have not been pitted as the bad guys here, not by the blog author or commenters. Really, Hunter.

  74. Lowetide says:

    spoiler:
    And in light of the scouts and the braintrust wanting Murray over Yak and then being over-ruled by the owner, I am surprised no one has posed this question:

    Would you rather have Murray and Nichushkin or Yakupov and Nurse?

    (not that anyone knew these were the options at the time Yak was drafted).

    Tough question, and I don’t know that anyone can be sure at this point, but to my eye Murray and Nichushkin would have helped this team sooner and would be a better fit for the roster.

    I don’t think there were 5 people on this blog who suggested taking anyone but Yakupov.

  75. spoiler says:

    hunter1909: Gobsmacked that the majority view around Lowetide pits the players as bad guys – in this ridiculous to everyone who follows hockey outside Edmonton situation etc.

    It’s okay, it’s you, not us. Nothing to worry about, lol.

  76. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think there were 5 people on this blog who suggested taking anyone but Yakupov.

    Not sure of the relevance of this to the question?

  77. Lowetide says:

    spoiler: Not sure of the relevance of this to the question?

    I’m saying that if the Oilers scouts were right, they’re pretty damn smart.

  78. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: Perhaps the Oilers need to hire a Doug? Or a Gord.

    Robert Gordon Orr or Wayne Douglas Gretzky?

  79. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: I like MacT but he’s misfired a lot in his first year.

    -Signs Jones to $1.5 early in the FA process when many better players were still available
    -Chased Clarkson and threw big $$$ at him
    -Gave Ference a long contract for a 34 year old Dman
    -Banked on unproven D (Belov, Grebs, Larsen) (note: I was onside with this, I was wrong too)
    -etc.

    I hope he’s learned in his first year.

    Learning curves are always very steep at the start.

    I like him better than any other Oiler manager since Sather, but he’s not a slam dunk.

    I don’t think he’s Doug Wilson or Doug Armstrong, or at least not yet.

    Perhaps the Oilers need to hire a Doug?Or a Gord.

    True. In Wilson’s first full year as GM, he sent Kipper to Calgary for a 2nd round pick and Brad Boyes to Boston for Jeff Jillson.

  80. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: I’m saying that if the Oilers scouts were right, they’re pretty damn smart.

    Because it would go against what this blog thought? An interesting point, that when scouts and GMs and AGMs and POHOs all together disagree with a blog when they have far more data, access, viewings etc, that they would be considered `pretty damn smart` for doing so.

    The question though is, in consideration of the hindsight we have available, should we be giving them a little credit for being pretty damn smart? Or do we only do that when the Magnificent Bastard, and the rest of the bastards, agree with us, lol?

  81. Hammers says:

    Woodguy:
    One thing has always bugged me about that presser that never got much ink.

    MacT goes on a bit about the “organizational hang over from all the success in the 80′s”

    Really?

    Sounds like externalizing organizational failure to me.

    Since the Oilers won the Cup last, TBY andANA entered as expansion teams and won the Cup.

    FLA and OTT entered the league as expansion teams and made it to the Cup final.

    SJS entered the league, and while not making it to a Cup final yet, are a perennial powerhouse.

    So MacT says an organization which started the 90′s waaaaay ahead of those I’ve listed is worse than those other orgs due to some “hangover” from being really good in the 80′s?

    That reeks of pure bullshit and can be filed under a few of the Organizational Groupthink sub-headings.

    Can’t agree . Your forgetting ownership . Pocklington to a group of so called saviors . Pocklington if you remember was a big problem in this city & cash was his goal . He had already won his cups and was dealing with a fan base that slowly didn’t sell the building out every night to dumping decent players to save money . I would love to hear the truth from Sather but face it , Pocklington made him a millionaire . We also went in the shitter in the 90′s for some 15 years due to our $$$ . When Lowe took over it was with one goal Stay The Coarse not do whatever to win . Asa for Tbay /Anaheim they may have been better off in many ways . I always respect your analysis but in this instance I disagree .

  82. stephen sheps says:

    Woodguy: I agree.

    Being the best on awful teams isn’t easy and they’re kids who have been given a lot of things in their lives for being good at hockey.

    Its tough watching them grow up in front of you because it isn’t always pretty.

    Many, many pro athletes have stated that its not the pro coaches job to motivate, but to give structure and a game plan.

    If players are playing with low give shit levels I have a hard time pinning that on the coach.

    Woodguy, I hope you don’t mind but I borrowed some of your thoughts here and incorporated them into my first blog post on my old site in more than a year.

    The accountability debate, along with dissertation avoidance made me want to write again. So I did. Thanks!

    (Shameless plug below)

    http://bringingbacktheglory.blogspot.ca/2014/01/accountability.html

  83. Lowetide says:

    spoiler: Because it would go against what this blog thought?An interesting point, that when scouts and GMs and AGMs and POHOs all together disagree with a blog when they have far more data, access, viewings etc, that they would be considered `pretty damn smart` for doing so.

    The question though is, in consideration of the hindsight we have available, should we be giving them a little credit for being pretty damn smart?Or do we only do that when the Magnificent Bastard, and the rest of the bastards, agree with us, lol?

    Only when they agree. No other time. :-)

  84. hodgkins says:

    spoiler,

    Thinking of Gords and Gretzky’s 53rd, pretty amazing stuff to look again at what Gordie Howe did. The man played until 52 and played 80 games as a 51 year old. Can you imagine Gretz playing up until a few years ago? Incredible.

    Too young to have seen him play personally, although my Dad grew up skating with Mark Howe in Michigan and still carries around an autographed copy of the book “Number 9″.

  85. Andy P says:

    Chris:
    Rather than trading away players like Eberle for a mediocre defenseman I don’t see why the plan isn’t to sign bridge defensemen. Chris Phillips or a Kimo Timonen etc have likely one or two more years in the tank. Alternatively we could always sign the guys we should have signed last summer for a song Ron Hainsey and Tom Gilbert. Klefbom, Nurse and potentially Ekblad are a three years away from helping. A smart organization would bring in some old horses to make the team competitive now and then start working the kids into the rotation as opposed to trading away thirty goal scorers.

    Sadly a smart organization is not something the oilers have proven to be since 2006.

    MacT was not the GM and Eakins was not the Coach until 2013. MacT was a smart coach and MacT is a smart GM. Please can you explain what MacT has done as GM that you think is not smart?

    BTW, Lowe was GM and MacT was coach in 2006 when you are saying they were smart……

  86. jp says:

    commonfan14: Selling guys off at the deadline last year when they were close to a playoff spot (mirage or no) could have destroyed the team’s relationship with the kids forever.

    I don’t put that one in Tambo’s extensive boneheaded moves column.

    Nice to see how the players rewarded Tambi for his confidence.

  87. russ99 says:

    A team with this much collective offensive talent playing this badly (and not being allowed to play offense, btw) and heads have to roll, it doesn’t matter who used to drink together back during the Cup years.

  88. gcw_rocks says:

    The leave of absence offer was a joke. What does Katz do if the organization starts performing while Lowe is on leave? What does Katz do if the org continues to tank after being left in the hands of Lowe’s hand picked team? Fire them and bring Lowe back to hire the next group?

  89. RexLibris says:

    spoiler: Me neither, as I allude to in my post.And it appears many people in the org thought Murray was the superior player, so the Jessiman example and the Yak superior arguments don’t really hold.But that doesn’t matter, the question is… which would you rather have right now?

    I’m going to stick to the 5-year draft rule, even on 1st overalls.

  90. Lowetide says:

    hodgkins:
    spoiler,

    Thinking of Gords and Gretzky’s 53rd, pretty amazing stuff to look again at what Gordie Howe did.The man played until 52 andplayed 80 games as a 51 year old.Can you imagine Gretz playing up until a few years ago?Incredible.

    Too young to have seen him play personally, although my Dad grew up skating with Mark Howe inMichigan and still carries around an autographed copy of the book “Number 9″.

    I have that book 5 feet from me, sadly not autographed. I saw Howe as a kid, and he was really good but the old fellows said he had faded some. In the first year of expansion, there were three players who finished with 100 or more points. Esposito who was 26, Bobby Hull who was 29, and Howe.

    He was 40.

  91. spoiler says:

    hodgkins: Thinking of Gords and Gretzky’s 53rd, pretty amazing stuff to look again at what Gordie Howe did. The man played until 52 and played 80 games as a 51 year old. Can you imagine Gretz playing up until a few years ago? Incredible.

    Too young to have seen him play personally, although my Dad grew up skating with Mark Howe in Michigan and still carries around an autographed copy of the book “Number 9″.

    Howe was exactly who I was thinking of when coining `Gords`… And he`s a Living Gord! Lol.

    Although we could maybe throw the Red Baron in there too as an important Hockey Gord… Gordon Berenson.

    And there`s been some good How(i)es too.

  92. spoiler says:

    RexLibris: I’m going to stick to the 5-year draft rule, even on 1st overalls.

    Sorry, forgot that the 5 year draft rule precluded making any assessment whatsoever in the interim. My bad for even considering the thought experiment.
    ;-)

  93. RexLibris says:

    spoiler: Sorry, forgot that the 5 year draft rule precluded making any assessment whatsoever in the interim. My bad for even considering the thought experiment.

    Ha, no it is a fair question, but so often I find conversation about drafted prospects (on other sites, not as often here) can turn into hyperbolic rants.

    Nurse and Yakupov might be as good a fit as Murray and Nichushkin, to be honest. Nurse is meaner than Murray, and Yakupov provides some RW depth on a team that is set to lose Hemsky and where Eberle keeps getting thrown into trade rumours.

    The question needs to be posed this June because the Oilers are very close to having to decide between a defender who can offer immediate returns in Ekblad or a center who addresses a pressing organizational need but will need another year or two of development.

    In 2012 I had made the point that perhaps the Oilers ought to leave some talent on the table and take a chance on Galchenyuk as a center to play behind Nugent-Hopkins and under the belief that Gagner could be a more effective winger than center, so I’m not against second-guessing the scouting group’s decisions.

  94. eidy says:

    Woodguy,

    Didn’t address centre either when there were options available. I think they wanted to try Taylor at centre and closed the book on other options.

    If we trade with Pitt I would be interested in sutter to improve centre if maata wasn’t available.

    There are so many teams in the east on the edge of falling out of contention. Between Philadelphia, TO,Ottawa and Washington which one will blink first.

    Toronto has 50 million tied up and love Bolland so I suspect he gets at least what bozak got as he has more gritensity. Then RFA of franson, gardiner, and Reimer. Reimer and Gardiner would be great for edmonton. Perhaps gunnerson shakes loose also. Kulemin seems very likely to be available.

    I wonder if MacT is planning to do a marincin for coburn type trade ala MPS for Perron. I like marincin a lot and would hate to see him go.

  95. spoiler says:

    RexLibris: Ha, no it is a fair question, but so often I find conversation about drafted prospects (on other sites, not as often here) can turn into hyperbolic rants.
    Nurse and Yakupov might be as good a fit as Murray and Nichushkin, to be honest. Nurse is meaner than Murray, and Yakupov provides some RW depth on a team that is set to lose Hemsky and where Eberle keeps getting thrown into trade rumours.

    The question needs to be posed this June because the Oilers are very close to having to decide between a defender who can offer immediate returns in Ekblad or a center who addresses a pressing organizational need but will need another year or two of development.

    In 2012 I had made the point that perhaps the Oilers ought to leave some talent on the table and take a chance on Galchenyuk as a center to play behind Nugent-Hopkins and under the belief that Gagner could be a more effective winger than center, so I’m not against second-guessing the scouting group’s decisions

    Thank you for the answer. And you are dead on right with regards to the significance of the question. I think it might get even more confused on draft day… from what I saw of Dal Colle on Friday night, I think there is a very good chance he might end up ranked higher than 4th.

  96. theres oil in virginia says:

    hunter1909:
    Gobsmacked that the majority view around Lowetide pits the players as bad guys – in this ridiculous to everyone who follows hockey outside Edmonton situation etc.

    My gord, Hunter. You’re going into the netherworld again. And just a couple of days ago, I remarked to myself that I was just beginning to enjoy reading your posts. (Incidentally, myself responded that it might be time to go see the psychiatrist.) Pull your ox out of the ditch, Hunter, and start posting reasonable (but negative of course) shit. Get your priorities straight. My enjoyment is the most important thing to consider here!

    I’m not sure why folks are suggesting that Ryan Jones is blaming the-failure-that-is-this-season on players not playing with enough intensity or accountability. It sounded to me like he is calling on them all not to use the record as an excuse for not bringing intensity from this point forward…and he’s right. He’s been a revelation lately too, btw. He’s playing like a man who saw his NHL career almost slip away and now he’s doing whatever it takes to stay in the lineup. I think he just wants the other guys, who aren’t in danger of falling out of the league, to play with an element of that in their game.

    Also, I don’t see him being threatened by the acquisition of Hendricks. If anything, it looks like he’s feeding off of the new energy. I like Hendricks game so far. He needs to avoid the penalty parade, but every player has a list of things they need to do right and a list of things they need to avoid in order to have success. Oilers need more of that, but coupled with skill that can play higher in the lineup.

  97. Lowetide says:

    spoiler: Thank you for the answer. And you are dead on right with regards to the significance of the question.I think it might get even more confused on draft day… from what I saw of Dal Colle on Friday night, I think there is a very good chance he might end up ranked higher than 4th.

    Agreed. I think Dal Colle may end up being the guy Edmonton takes.

  98. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: True. In Wilson’s first full year as GM, he sent Kipper to Calgary for a 2nd round pick and Brad Boyes to Boston for Jeff Jillson.

    Bloody rookies eh?

    I’m pretty tired of them.

  99. Woodguy says:

    stephen sheps: Woodguy, I hope you don’t mind but I borrowed some of your thoughts here and incorporated them into my first blog post on my old site in more than a year.

    The accountability debate, along with dissertation avoidance made me want to write again. So I did. Thanks!

    (Shameless plug below)

    http://bringingbacktheglory.blogspot.ca/2014/01/accountability.html

    No worries at all.

    I appreciate the hat tip and letting me know.

  100. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Bloody rookies eh?

    I’m pretty tired of them.

    Sure. But if you’ve got a good one, suffering through some growing pains can be worth it. Jim Nill would have been a nice get, I’ll sure say that much. I love how well he addressed center in Dallas in one summer.

  101. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler:
    And in light of the scouts and the braintrust wanting Murray over Yak and then being over-ruled by the owner, I am surprised no one has posed this question:

    Would you rather have Murray and Nichushkin or Yakupov and Nurse?

    (not that anyone knew these were the options at the time Yak was drafted).

    Tough question, and I don’t know that anyone can be sure at this point, but to my eye Murray and Nichushkin would have helped this team sooner and would be a better fit for the roster.

    Interesting question, but Murray was drafted a year before Nurse, so the implication that he is helping sooner is a little bent by that. It remains to be seen whether Nurse will play next year with the Oilers similar to what Murray is doing now. Murray also is currently having the advantage of playing a lot of minutes with James Wysniewski. How bad would Murray be floundering with the Oilers right now. Further, don’t you value “better player” more than “arrived sooner”. Is Murray better than Nurse? He has better draft pedigree, but I really don’t know.
    As far as Yak goes, I think it still looks like he’s a pretty high level talent. He’s definitely got problems in his game, but I’m not anywhere near ready to write him off. I haven’t seen much of Nichushkin.
    Yak 2012:
    48GP, 17G, 14A, 31P
    Nich 2013:
    49GP, 11G, 14A, 25P

  102. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: Agreed. I think Dal Colle may end up being the guy Edmonton takes

    I am more okay with that idea if Dal Colle plays centre after Laughton leaves.

  103. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide: That is framing the issue. Players have not been pitted as the bad guys here, not by the blog author or commenters. Really, Hunter.

    Sorry about that. Being on the wagon three days does funny things to a person.

    Katz and Lowe are certainly feeling major heat. I tend to see this as a culmination of many years of ducking and diving, now coming to an ignominious end.

    Whereas before it was left to the poor fans to fret about these clowns, now the entire league is beginning to laugh, and laugh very loudly at these purveyors of hype. And with this happening, there really won’t be anywhere left for them to hide.

    It might appear mean, but some fans really believe Lowe is a bad influence on the franchise. For me personally it was the Perry/Comrie fiasco that should have got Lowe fired.

  104. Lowetide says:

    hunter1909: Sorry about that. Being on the wagon three days does funny things to a person.

    Katz and Lowe are certainly feeling major heat. I tend to see this as a culmination of many years of ducking and diving, now coming to an ignominious end.

    Yeah, I see that and also a lot of people (and smart people, like you) thinking this will result in something major. I don’t. I’m not trying to be contrary, but for me the issue is ‘fire MacTavish or no?” instead of “Swing Lowe, Sweet Chariot”

    I think we go through summer and fall with changes in assistant coaching and trades, but none of the execs. Maybe Olczyck. And they could shoot the pro and amateur scouts, but I think the amateur scouting department has earned a renewal (not all feel that way).

  105. fifthcartel says:

    Isn’t Dal Colle a winger? I would think they have their eyes on a C or D for this draft, but Dal Colle does seem to be big.

  106. spoiler says:

    theres oil in virginia: As far as Yak goes, I think it still looks like he’s a pretty high level talent. He’s definitely got problems in his game, but I’m not anywhere near ready to write him off. I haven’t seen much of Nichushkin.
    Yak 2012:
    48GP, 17G, 14A, 31P
    Nich 2013:
    49GP, 11G, 14A, 25P

    As far as Yak goes, what I have really liked this year is that he has started to add a more physical element to his game. He has a tank-like build and had a feisty nature in Junior, so it is nice to see him gaining some needed physical confidence at this level.

  107. Woodguy says:

    Hammers: Can’t agree . Your forgetting ownership . Pocklington to a group of so called saviors . Pocklington if you remember was a big problem in this city & cash was his goal . He had already won his cups and was dealing with a fan base that slowly didn’t sell the building out every night to dumping decent players to save money . I would love to hear the truth from Sather but face it , Pocklington made him a millionaire . We also went in the shitter in the 90′s for some 15 years due to our $$$ .When Lowe took over it was with one goal Stay The Coarse not do whatever to win .Asa for Tbay /Anaheim they may have been better off in many ways .I always respect your analysis but in this instance I disagree .

    The Oilers were sold to the EIG in 1998.

    In 1999 they made the playoffs.

    Even as they had to sell off Weight, Guerin and others they still had a massive head start on the expansion franchises in terms of asset base (players) to work from.

    I understand your point, but disagree with your conclusion.

  108. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: Agreed. I think Dal Colle may end up being the guy Edmonton takes.

    Somewhere Rom’s heart just broke a little, LT. I hope you are happy.

    ;)

  109. prairieschooner says:

    I believe I am one of the 5 who wanted the D man over Yak. I also was over the moon about the excitement, skills and joie de vie from Yak.
    I am still puzzled about selecting BPA at this stage in the rebuild process.
    If the BPA does not fill an actual deficiency in the roster you are placing your trust in the belief that having gone to the market and purchased cabbage when you needed fresh lettuce that you can find someone who will swap their lettuce for your cabbage.
    The market may have had day old lettuce to offer but it was still very good.
    You may not find a trade partner right when you need one and your cabbage starts to wilt

  110. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: Sure. But if you’ve got a good one, suffering through some growing pains can be worth it. Jim Nill would have been a nice get, I’ll sure saythat much. I love how well he addressed center in Dallas in one summer.

    Agreed that a seasoned hockey manager with a track record of organizational success would have been much better than a pure rookie.

    Especially if that manager came from outside the Oilers to bring a fresh perspective.

    I like MacT, but I’m also wary on how he values some players on the downside on their careers

    Its interesting to remember the rumours that Doug Armstrong turned Lowe down for the GM job in 2008 as he wasn’t comfortable he could run the team the way he wanted without interference from Lowe.

    Lowe ended up hiring Tambellini.

  111. stephen sheps says:

    Woodguy,

    It’s just nice to have a reason to do non-academic writing again.

    Lowetide: Yeah, I see that and also a lot of people (and smart people, like you) thinking this will result in something major. I don’t. I’m not trying to be contrary, but for me the issue is ‘fire MacTavish or no?” instead of “Swing Lowe, Sweet Chariot”

    I think we go through summer and fall with changes in assistant coaching and trades, but none of the execs. Maybe Olczyck. And they could shoot the pro and amateur scouts, but I think the amateur scouting department has earned a renewal (not all feel that way).

    Is the firing of MacT (again) going to make a difference? He’s got such a huge task ahead of him that letting him go now could set the team back even further. I’m hopeful that the changes at the top that will inevitably happen over the summer (similar to what you suggested here LT) have to coincide with addressing the obvious flaws still left over from the Tambo era of abject failure and ineptitude. Fixing something that is broken takes a lot of time. My question at this point is “can it be fixed at all?” rather than simply asking “who needs to be fired in order for it to be fixed?” To me, the former is the hard question; the latter is the easy way out. Sadly, that easy way out has been happening since 2009 and absolutely nothing’s changed.

  112. eidy says:

    I can’t see them passing on ekblad if he is there. Buffalo loaded on D so likely will take one of the Sam’s. 45% chance edmonton or buffalo win the lottery.

  113. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler: As far as Yak goes, what I have really liked this year is that he has started to add a more physical element to his game.He has a tank-like build and had a feisty nature in Junior, so it is nice to see him gaining some needed physical confidence at this level.

    Yeah, he’s laid the body a few times this year. I’d like to see him stop trying to play RD in the defensive zone. Have you seen that? (Hint: Look at the video of goals against! Such as the Derek Morris goal the other night.) Maybe there was a language break-down when Eakins told him he needed to play better defense in his own zone to get more ice time.

    I look forward to seeing Yak smile more.

  114. stephen sheps says:

    Apropos of nothing, this Rangers Devils game is turning into some good, old fashioned outdoor river hockey. I feel a bit bad for Marty though. He’s having a tough day.

  115. spoiler says:

    prairieschooner: I believe I am one of the 5 who wanted the D man over Yak. I also was over the moon about the excitement, skills and joie de vie from Yak.I am still puzzled about selecting BPA at this stage in the rebuild process.If the BPA does not fill an actual deficiency in the roster you are placing your trust in the belief that having gone to the market and purchased cabbage when you needed fresh lettuce that you can find someone who will swap their lettuce for your cabbage.The market may have had day old lettuce to offer but it was still very good.You may not find a trade partner right when you need one and your cabbage starts to wilt

    I think it is very important when a winger appears to be the BPA to ensure there is enough clearance between him and the prospects behind him that he can clearly be projected to be a better difference-maker going forward. Wingers don’t have as much trade value as Centres and Dmen, who are always in demand, and they don’t contribute as much to winning hockey games.

    It s much easier to draft yourself out of balance than it is to trade to get that balance back.

    BVA not BPA… Best Value Available.

  116. Lowetide says:

    stephen sheps:
    Woodguy,

    It’s just nice to have a reason to do non-academic writing again.

    Is the firing of MacT (again) going to make a difference? He’s got such a huge task ahead of him that letting him go now could set the team back even further. I’m hopeful that the changes at the top that will inevitably happen over the summer (similar to what you suggested here LT) have to coincide with addressing the obvious flaws still left over from the Tambo era of abject failure and ineptitude. Fixing something that is broken takes a lot of time. My question at this point is “can it be fixed at all?” rather than simply asking “who needs to be fired in order for it to be fixed?” To me, the former is the hard question; the latter is the easy way out. Sadly, that easy way out has been happening since 2009 and absolutely nothing’s changed.

    I think Katz has two choices:

    1. Stay with MacT
    2. Bring in a Craig Patrick or Scotty Bowman as caretaker until a young, qualified choice can be found to start all over again.

    The Lowe upset won’t get solved if they go with 1, so I imagine those who want Lowe out are pushing (or should be) for the Craig Patrick option.

  117. stephen sheps says:

    Lowetide,

    Agreed, LT. Those who are in the Lowe Must Go camp would likely be entirely unsatisfied with option 1. But there are still no guarantees that the Craig Patrick type would do much better given the mess the team is as it is currently built. In many ways, that’s the management equivalent to hiring OTC, and that worked out oh so well, hilarious pressers notwithstanding.

  118. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: I like MacT but he’s misfired a lot in his first year.
    -Signs Jones to $1.5 early in the FA process when many better players were still available
    -Chased Clarkson and threw big $$$ at him
    -Gave Ference a long contract for a 34 year old Dman
    -Banked on unproven D (Belov, Grebs, Larsen) (note: I was onside with this, I was wrong too)
    -etc.

    I still don’t see the Jones contract as a (big) misfire. I agree that it’s an (small) overpay, but right now, Jones is one of the few players leaving it all out on the ice.
    The term is the only part of the Clarkson attempt that I think would have been a problem. I know Clarkson was overvalued at UFA time, but he brings a lot to a club and he would improve the Oilers a great deal.
    Ference…ugh. I liked it at the time, but it’s getting harder to defend. I really think it’s just a case of him being asked to do too much. He’s no Jack Johnson! (That ones just for you, Woodguy. – All in fun.)
    MacT did the best he could with defense. At least Eakins has bodies to rotate through the lineup. I don’t think anyone (including MacT) thought that he had taken care of the top-end of the D lineup.

    Not much of an attempt was made to fill the center void. I’m still not sure why they didn’t sign Grabovski.

    MacT hasn’t made any of the big blunders that would characterize his tenure, so far, as a failure.

  119. Andy P says:

    Lowetide: I think Katz has two choices:

    1. Stay with MacT
    2. Bring in a Craig Patrick or Scotty Bowman as caretaker until a young, qualified choice can be found to start all over again.

    The Lowe upset won’t get solved if they go with 1, so I imagine those who want Lowe out are pushing (or should be) for the Craig Patrick option.

    I think we all need to take a look at reality, that MacT and Eakins have been here less than a year, and have done as well as can be with all the challenges they were faced with, accept that the core issue is likely the maturing of the core players who came directly from Junior and are havng to learn defense, and chill a little.

    They know where they are better than we do, they have a plan clearly mapped out, they have Katz’ support and are, for the first time in this organization in a few years, sticking to their guns.

    Looking at their recent past, I think they will not make a trade that does not improve the team, and as long as the path is, the one they are taking is the right one. When a team has been FUBAR’d as this, by Tambo, there is no other way.

    I may not watch every game live, but if I check in and they are showing spring in their step I will stay tuned.

  120. cabbiesmacker says:

    Woodguy:
    Its interesting to remember the rumours that Doug Armstrong turned Lowe down for the GM job in 2008 as he wasn’t comfortable he could run the team the way he wanted without interference from Lowe.

    Lowe ended up hiring Tambellini.

    And yet the majority here actually believe ST was master of his own destiny. Head shaker for sure.

    No chance did ST have the luxury of implementing 100% of HIS ideas100% of the time, and therein lies the biggest problem with Oiler management.

    Not defending ST. Just sayin.

  121. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Agreed that a seasoned hockey manager with a track record of organizational success would have been much better than a pure rookie.

    Especially if that manager came from outside the Oilers to bring a fresh perspective.

    I like MacT, but I’m also wary on how he values some players on the downside on their careers

    Its interesting to remember the rumours that Doug Armstrong turned Lowe down for the GM job in 2008 as he wasn’t comfortable he could run the team the way he wanted without interference from Lowe.

    Lowe ended up hiring Tambellini.

    Great point, Armstrong would have been a very good hire. Well, we are here. There’s a ‘Lowe Must Go” Rally at Rexall tonight, and if it is well attended, that will tell a story too.

  122. hunter1909 says:

    Andy P: MacT and Eakins have been here less than a year, and have done as well as can be with all the challenges they were faced with

    Running a team with three consecutive 1st overalls into the NHL basement, and you call that “as well as can be”??

    Easily pleased, aren’t you?

  123. theres oil in virginia says:

    stephen sheps: Woodguy, I hope you don’t mind but I borrowed some of your thoughts here and incorporated them into my first blog post on my old site in more than a year.

    The accountability debate, along with dissertation avoidance made me want to write again. So I did. Thanks!

    (Shameless plug below)

    http://bringingbacktheglory.blogspot.ca/2014/01/accountability.html

    Nice work.

    It’s like the A kids are performing at B- levels, and the C kids are performing at D- levels. B- won’t get you kicked out of school. but D- will. Both are underperforming. In fairness to all of them, I think the teachers are underperforming too.

  124. Jasmine says:

    godot10:
    //but am hopeful we can go back to talking about Craig MacTavish and how he’s going to put out the fires.//

    INCLUDING THE ONES HE HIMSELF STARTED,

    1) like hiring a new coach quickly without any formal hiring process.
    2) like perhaps whispering in Katz’s ear, pick Yak, over the scouts who wanted Murray, or a trade down for Reinhart.
    3) like trading a perfectly good centre and LW (Horcoff), leaving the young core with no established trust relationship with team leadership.i.e. New coach, and a new imported captain (who cannot lead by example since he is a role player).

    Murray is overrated. Whoever the Oilers draft is the player the Oilers fans bash. I remember how the Oilers were bashed when there were talks of taking Murray ahead of Yak. Now those same Oilers fans are bashing the Oilers for drafting Yak over Murray. Oilers are still getting bashed for drafting Hall over the Oilers fans golden boy, Seguin. No matter what Hall does, even good, Oilers fans find something to bash Hall for.

    Horcoff was run out of town by Oilers fans. Horcoff even said he asked for a trade because of Oielrs fans.

  125. cabbiesmacker says:

    Andy P:Please can you explain what MacT has done as GM that you think is not smart?

    What’s the point Cra..err Kev..er Andy.? You aren’t in a listening mood.

    How many times do you need things typed under your nose before you start?

  126. Jasmine says:

    stephen sheps:
    Even if Jones (a player who I don’t really care for) is saying these things to try and save his own ass, the fact is he’s right. This is the first time in a very long time that a player has publicly stated that the inmates are potentially running the asylum. There was a theory floating around these parts, one that’s been routinely discussed by friends and other Oilers fans out here in Ontario, that the team is made up of coach killers insofar as the players have come to recognize a pattern that if they don’t succeed, someone else will lose their job and that the players are safe from any sort of trouble. With that pattern repeating itself from the time Taylor arrived, it demonstrates that there is at least a degree of truth to the theory (not an absolute, not a universal, but a degree). It’s actually a good thing that Jones has spoken up, even if the motivation for the statement was rooted in his own self-serving desire for another contract. It shows that he actually has a bit of passion left, despite the season being all but lost. Hopefully more players look at this rather public calling out and pick up their games a bit. MacT isn’t going anywhere, Eakins surely isn’t, either. Nothing wrong with a player holding his team accountable for their failures.

    That’s not to say that the team will suddenly become competitive. The roster has more holes than swiss cheese (and most of the academic theories I depend upon in my real work), but accountability and passion on the ice in spite of the holes would go a long way to making the players themselves and the fans feel like this team is worth watching, because right now they’re not.

    The coach killers are Oilers rfans and Tambellini. Oilers fans have run 4 coaches out of town in 5 years and are working at running a 5th coach out of town in 6 years. Tambellini had 4 coaches in 5 years. He was impatient with coaches and should have been fired when he left Renney hanging before telling him he was fired.

  127. oilersfan says:

    How can n schultz have any value at the deadline when rusty klesla and Shane OBrien are clearing waivers??

  128. Lowetide says:

    oilersfan:
    How can n schultz have any value at the deadline when rusty klesla and Shane OBrien are clearing waivers??

    Have you seen Shane O’Brien??

  129. Lowetide says:

    Wrote about the deadline, not Oiler specific

    http://www.puckrant.com/slapshot/burning-daylight

  130. Jasmine says:

    Pouzar:
    Although Jones has been better I look forward to him finally being gone.
    Along with Ryan Smyth. Why the smart people here pine for him is beyond me.
    We need about 10 new players next year and he has to be included in the turnover.

    Isn’t that the problem. 5 coaches in 6 years and 10 new players each season is the problem. Oilers fans need to stop running players and coaches out of town.

  131. cabbiesmacker says:

    Woodguy: I like MacT but he’s misfired a lot in his first year.

    -Signs Jones to $1.5 early in the FA process when many better players were still available
    -Chased Clarkson and threw big $$$ at him
    -Gave Ference a long contract for a 34 year old Dman
    -Banked on unproven D (Belov, Grebs, Larsen) (note: I was onside with this, I was wrong too)
    -etc.

    - Hired Eakins without doing due diligence on others (emulated his own hiring process I guess)
    - Had to have played a part in not allowing Eakins to name is own assts.
    - Signed MacIntyre
    - Signed and “kept” Gagner
    - Traded Smid for Bryz (essentially)

    The list of fails is a lot longer than the successes version

    But of course he gets a pass. He’s Oiler alumni.

  132. Ribs says:

    Ryan Jones – Kicking and Screaming.

    It might be too late for him now with Hendricks in town, but it sure is nice to hear someone from the room still has a pulse.

  133. oilersfan says:

    Lowetide,

    Have you seen Nick Schultz?

  134. hunter1909 says:

    Jasmine: 5 coaches in 6 years and 10 new players each season is the problem. Oilers fans need to stop running players and coaches out of town.

    Thank you, for the funniest thing I’ll read today.

  135. FastOil says:

    On one hand any players talking about not making excuses and actually performing on the ice seems like a good sign.

    On the other hand, when the player has been, at the very best, inconsistent and mediocre, I think why didn’t you do something about this say three years ago?

    For me motivational issues are not something to try to overcome. If millions can’t motivate guys nothing can. It’s too late for Jones, and you can bank that if he gets a contract he won’t play consistently or like the Phoenix game (which he wasn’t great in but at least looked to be doing something).

    I would unload the works, Arco, Joennsu, Jones, Smyth, Belov, Larsen (if possible), Potter, NS, Bryz and Hemsky (and sign him in the summer again).

    What’s too lose, this group doesn’t work, sign veterans.

  136. Lowetide says:

    oilersfan:
    Lowetide,

    Have you seen Nick Schultz?

    Touche.

  137. Jasmine says:

    RexLibris: I’ve just been arguing the same point over at FN. Fans there are furious that the Oilers are lined up to get another 1st overall pick. I think they thought this one would be theirs.

    My argument is almost identical there, LT. Tambellini was told to be bad and he excelled. Now they are trying to undo the damage and it comes out that the Oilers couldn’t simply cash in a bunch of prospect chips to turn things around on a dime.

    This summer I’d hope that the Oilers can sign a passable 2C (unless MacTavish somehow trades for a Couturier-type) and then sign someone like Niskanen or even Orpik/Nikitin to add to the blue.

    UFAs won’t sign in Edmonton because they know they’ll get run out of town by Oilers fans.

  138. Lowetide says:

    Jasmine: UFAs won’t sign in Edmonton because they know they’ll get run out of town by Oilers fans.

    That’s not true.

  139. Woodguy says:

    cabbiesmacker: And yet the majority here actually believe ST was master of his own destiny. Head shaker for sure.

    No chance did ST have the luxury of implementing 100% of HIS ideas100% of the time, and therein lies the biggest problem with Oiler management.

    Not defending ST. Just sayin.

    I honestly believe that Tambellini was left to his own devices for the most part.

    Lowe’s biggest failing was being slow to recognize Tambellini’s incompetence and letting him gut the org of all talent save the draft picks.

  140. gvblackhawk says:

    Jasmine: UFAs won’t sign in Edmonton because they know they’ll get run out of town by Oilers fans.

    You keep repeating this line but offer no examples. Who was ‘run out of town’ by the fans? Are you implying that the fans control the GM?

  141. Woodguy says:

    oilersfan:
    How can n schultz have any value at the deadline when rusty klesla and Shane OBrien are clearing waivers??

    Reputation is everything.

    GM of the year Shero paid 2 second rounds picks for Doug Murray.

    *drops mike and walks off the stage*

  142. jake70 says:

    I think a tell all interview with Tambellini, if ever/whenever it takes place will be quite interesting. Unless he’s been paid to keep things quiet. He signed an extension in 2012. Likely a 3 year so likely on payroll til 2015. We wait.

  143. Woodguy says:

    Jasmine,

    Oilers fans need to stop running players and coaches out of town.

    Fans never run anyone out of town.

    If that was the case Horcoff and Hemsky wouldn’t have lasted as long as they did/have.

    I’d say very few GM’s (correctly) make any moves with an eye on the fanbase other than a splashy signing to help sell tickets. See: Souray, Sheldon

  144. Woodguy says:

    jake70:
    I think a tell all interview with Tambellini, if ever/whenever it takes place will be quiteinteresting.Unless he’s been paid to keep things quiet. He signed an extension in 2012. Likely a3 year so likely on payroll til 2015. We wait.

    He won’t say anything.

    Not if he wants to keep working in hockey.

  145. gvblackhawk says:

    Jasmine: Horcoff even said he asked for a trade because of Oielrs fans.

    I don’t recall Horcoff saying this. Please post a link to the quote. Or were you just a really close friend of Horcoff and he told you?

    Bash, bash, bash. Oilers fans’ fault. Slats’ fault. Does that about cover it?

  146. book¡je says:

    Lowetide: Yeah, I see that and also a lot of people (and smart people, like you) thinking this will result in something major. I don’t. I’m not trying to be contrary, but for me the issue is ‘fire MacTavish or no?” instead of “Swing Lowe, Sweet Chariot”

    I think we go through summer and fall with changes in assistant coaching and trades, but none of the execs. Maybe Olczyck. And they could shoot the pro and amateur scouts, but I think the amateur scouting department has earned a renewal (not all feel that way).

    I agree, I don’t see a significant change happening. First, Edmontonians will fade. We are general an apathetic people. Second, a major firing means giving up and rebooting – Katz won’t be at that point for another year if things continue to suck. Third, season tickets will sell out again.

  147. Captain Smarmy says:

    I suspect Nick Schultz would appear serviceable on a team like the Bruins. But he’s likely to get nothing but one year deals until he bounces out of the league.

  148. jake70 says:

    Woodguy: He won’t say anything.

    Not if he wants to keep working in hockey.

    Yeah. I believe he won’t do a “let’s set the record straight” interview but he may offer some nuggets here and there, given the dumping on he has taken in Oiler nation (I know I would if I had any pride at all and felt I needed to correct a few things so I could get back into hockey).

  149. justDOit says:

    jake70,

    He’s currently scouting for the Ducks.

  150. jake70 says:

    justDOit:
    jake70,

    He’s currently scouting for the Ducks.

    I did not know that. Thanks.

  151. jake70 says:

    justDOit:
    jake70,

    He’s currently scouting for the Ducks.

    Ahhh making sense now. The Ducks-Oilers really made a trade for J. Schultz, Tambellini was the player to be named later.

  152. justDOit says:

    jake70,

    And they seem to be making better use out of Cogs that the Oil could – they only paid a 2nd rounder for him, IIRC.

  153. Lowetide says:

    jake70: Yeah.I believe he won’t do a “let’s set the record straight” interview but he may offer some nuggets here and there, given the dumping on he has taken in Oiler nation (I know I would if I had any pride at all and felt I needed to correct a few things so I could get back into hockey).

    I think the Oilers under Tambellini were consistent.

  154. justDOit says:

    jake70: Ahhh making sense now.The Ducks-Oilers really made a trade for J. Schultz, Tambellini was the player to be named later.

    But I have a theory that he’s really just an assistant to the traveling secretary, and he ‘scouts’ out hotels and restaurants in the cities on their road trips.

  155. prairieschooner says:

    It is worth keeping in mind that although MacT is a first year GM he was not new to the Edmonton situation that he was inheriting, so he would have been aware of players that management had been targeting. Unlike a new coach MacT had a lot of familiarity with the Oilers he was to inherit

  156. nycoil says:

    Just came back from the game at Yankee Stadium. Had seats in the very top row of the whole stadium, where there is no wall behind, just a steel grate letting in all the wind. My beer froze within 3 minutes of sitting there, which means I wasn’t drinking fast enough. I am still trying to revive the feeling in my fingers and toes, but I had a wonderful time. I didn’t get to go to the Heritage Classic back in 2003 so was really looking forward to this.

    Picking “Jersey Boys” as entertainment for this game though, shows the NHL doesn’t know its audience. Also, the band playing at the 1st intermission actually told the crowd, “We have to take a break for the commercials.” Of the many reasons to despise Gary Bettman, that was it right there in a nutshell. Never mind the 50,000+ fans who paid the exorbitant prices to turn up in person in the freezing cold. Heaven forbid they get to listen to music during the commercial break.

    Marty looks to be on his last legs. Jagr and Elias still going strong. I know we’ve compared Kruger vs Eakins a lot, but I wonder how a veteran offensive-minded coach like Vigneault might have done with this nucleus we have. Just a thought. He seems to have turned the Rangers around after a slow start.

  157. stevezie says:

    cabbiesmacker: – Hired Eakins without doing due diligence on others (emulated his own hiring process I guess)

    I’ve heard this from a few different fans, and it has yet to start making sense to me. What has Eakins done so far that came as a surprise? Don’t say “lose”. Give me specifics. Maybe you know something I don’t, but it looks like Eakins is acting like Eakins always has.

  158. Lowetide says:

    NYCOIL: Thanks for the update, it looked very nice on television, especially the uniforms. I think Brodeur was horrible, but he said it was the ice.

  159. stevezie says:

    stevezie,
    I guess you could just mean, “they should have hired someone else”, but that’s using cheater hindsight.A) At the time Eakins was widely considered among the best coaching candidates in the world. B) We have no reason to believe they didn’t look at others. In fact, we have a lot of reason to believe they did, as Eakins originally interviewed as Associate Coach, and he was one of many interviews. Unless you just think they should have hired Cooper, specifically, who Tampa had a pretty significant advantage on,

    There are enough real problems that we don’t have to invent new ones.

  160. gvblackhawk says:

    nycoil:
    Just came back from the game at Yankee Stadium. Had seats in the very top row of the whole stadium, where there is no wall behind, just a steel grate letting in all the wind. My beer froze within 3 minutes of sitting there, which means I wasn’t drinking fast enough. I am still trying to revive the feeling in my fingers and toes, but I had a wonderful time. I didn’t get to go to the Heritage Classic back in 2003 so was really looking forward to this.

    Picking “Jersey Boys” as entertainment for this game though, shows the NHL doesn’t know its audience. Also, the band playing at the 1st intermission actually told the crowd, “We have to take a break for the commercials.” Of the many reasons to despise Gary Bettman, that was it right there in a nutshell. Never mind the 50,000+ fans who paid the exorbitant prices to turn up in person in the freezing cold. Heaven forbid they get to listen to music during the commercial break.

    Marty looks to be on his last legs. Jagr and Elias still going strong. I know we’ve compared Kruger vs Eakins a lot, but I wonder how a veteran offensive-minded coach like Vigneault might have done with this nucleus we have. Just a thought. He seems to have turned the Rangers around after a slow start.

    I actually liked the Jersey Boys routine. My wife and I saw it in New York last year, too, and thought it was fantastic. To each their own.

  161. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I think the Oilers under Tambellini were consistent.

    Move out Actual NHL talent
    Move in draft picks and players on their last NHL team.

    Consistent as hell.

  162. VOR says:

    stevezie,

    I am not giving you a hard time. This is an honest question. Who did the Oilers interview before they hired Eakins? I think I remember Paul Maurice. But other than that I can’t think of anyone else and I am not really even sure about Maurice.

  163. Lowetide says:

    sorry about that folks. If you see some of your posts missing, we had a Gremlin in here but that’s been taken care of now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

  164. Andy P says:

    hunter1909: Running a team with three consecutive 1st overalls into the NHL basement, and you call that “as well as can be”??Easily pleased, aren’t you?

    Sheesh Hunter, I’m seeing you as somewhere between a pure troll, a clucks fan, and severely depressed. Lighten up, fella! Note that I’m not insulting your intelligence because you surely understand the point I’m making. If you don’t, that’s ok too :)

  165. book¡je says:

    Woodguy: Yeah, you can stop posting anytime.

    Seriously, I am about to go find DSF and beg him to come back.

  166. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide:
    sorry about that folks. If you see some of your posts missing, we had a Gremlin in here but that’s been taken care of now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

    Speaking of such things…have you banned the captain?

  167. book¡je says:

    Lowetide:
    sorry about that folks. If you see some of your posts missing, we had a Gremlin in here but that’s been taken care of now. Sorry for the inconvenience.

    Thank you – seriously thank you. I couldn’t handle that and the same gremlin has infected other sites.

  168. stevezie says:

    Lowetide,

    Anyone I know?

  169. oliveoilers says:

    Awesome warm up to tonight’s game just finished on NBC. Rugby Sevens from Las Vegas, Canada finishing a creditable third by beating Samoa. Springboks beat All-Blacks in final. Can’t wait until they take hitting out of Rugby. Not.

  170. gvblackhawk says:

    book¡je: Seriously,I am about to go find DSF and beg him to come back.

    Do you think he would have stayed away this long if he was not permanently incapacitated?

  171. flyfish1168 says:

    Have the Oilers announced their starting line up for tonight?

  172. jake70 says:

    nycoil:
    Just came back from the game at Yankee Stadium. Had seats in the very top row of the whole stadium, where there is no wall behind, just a steel grate letting in all the wind. My beer froze within 3 minutes of sitting there, which means I wasn’t drinking fast enough. I am still trying to revive the feeling in my fingers and toes, but I had a wonderful time. I didn’t get to go to the Heritage Classic back in 2003 so was really looking forward to this.

    Picking “Jersey Boys” as entertainment for this game though, shows the NHL doesn’t know its audience. Also, the band playing at the 1st intermission actually told the crowd, “We have to take a break for the commercials.” Of the many reasons to despise Gary Bettman, that was it right there in a nutshell. Never mind the 50,000+ fans who paid the exorbitant prices to turn up in person in the freezing cold. Heaven forbid they get to listen to music during the commercial break.

    Marty looks to be on his last legs. Jagr and Elias still going strong. I know we’ve compared Kruger vs Eakins a lot, but I wonder how a veteran offensive-minded coach like Vigneault might have done with this nucleus we have. Just a thought. He seems to have turned the Rangers around after a slow start.

    Ha, sounds like a story at base camp after an Everest summit attempt at 8000 metres. Good luck with warming the digits. That comment about Bettman and the commercial breaks just irritates me to no end. I wonder if the league has guys with metal detectors scouring after these stadium games looking for extra revenue. Wondering if he is worried the looney is losing steam recently, right after the big Rogers deal….lol.

  173. Lowetide says:

    gvblackhawk: Do you think he would have stayed away this long if he was not permanently incapacitated?

    DSF is not currently riding the pine.

  174. stevezie says:

    VOR,

    I will be honest, I don’t know the list. I only know that part way through the search MacT found someone who was, to him, the ideal candidate. I guess it could have been two interviews in. I assumed Nelson would have gotten an interview, if only as a courtesy.

  175. Lowetide says:

    theres oil in virginia: Speaking of such things…have you banned the captain?

    No.

  176. Woodguy says:

    book¡je: Thank you – seriously thank you.I couldn’t handle that and the same gremlin has infected other sites.

    I set the odds that the ip comes from Oilers HQ at -140. :)

  177. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: DSF is not currently riding the pine.

    I like DSF.

    Moves the goalposts like mad when his arguments fall apart, but sharp enough to argue coherently and not afraid of sacred cows.

    Trolls too often, but that can be said of many, including myself.

  178. book¡je says:

    Woodguy: I like DSF.

    Moves the goalposts like mad when his arguments fall apart, but sharp enough to argue coherently and not afraid of sacred cows.

    Trolls too often, but that can be said of many, including myself.

    I respect DSF’s ability to troll. Seriously, it’s amazing how he bobs and weaves with half truths and selective statistics. I wish the guy actually sought to be constructive.

    I thought he might be away because of health issues, but I saw him posting elsewhere recently. It’s better here without him because he dominates the discussion with trolling, but at least he is bright. I can’t handle crazy.

  179. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide: No.

    Huh. Well, I hope he’s alright.

  180. Andy P says:

    stevezie: I’ve heard this from a few different fans, and it has yet to start making sense to me. What has Eakins done so far that came as a surprise? Don’t say “lose”. Give me specifics. Maybe you know something I don’t, but it looks like Eakins is acting like Eakins always has.

    I think it’s just a mantra that the angry, the deliberately ignorant and the depressed like to endlessly repeat. Eakins was a well known entity and considered the best catch after John Cooper.

    So I’m also interested to hear the response to your question.

  181. Rondo says:

    Lowetide,

    I could see Shultz and Hemsky going to Boston.

  182. vangolf says:

    Lowetide,

    We are family friends with a current nhl’er who confirmed that it was in fact true (at least for him) in respect of free agents being gun shy about edm b/c of fans.

  183. leadfarmer says:

    Lowetide,

    I think his mom finally kicked him out of her basement and took away his internet.

  184. leadfarmer says:

    I wonder what kind of relationship Lowe has with Katz, given that he was about a couple steps away from Mike Milbury level of management

  185. Lowetide says:

    vangolf:
    Lowetide,

    We are family friends with a current nhl’er who confirmed that it was in fact true (at least for him) in respect of free agents being gun shy about edm b/c of fans.

    I’m certain that’s true with all cities. However, last summer the Oilers brought in Gordon and Ference, those are legit free agents and they had other offers. The Canucks drove up the price on Gordon.

    And once this team starts winning,free agents will come here. They did last time, will again.

  186. Lowetide says:

    Moroz with an assist today, now 48, 25-23-48 on the season.

  187. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide:
    Moroz with an assist today, now 48, 25-23-48 on the season.

    Lovin that! Where do you think he plays next year? AHL?

  188. Lowetide says:

    Bickell scratched tonight, he’s healthy and practiced yesterday.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blackhawks/post/_/id/4679849/bickell-scratched-against-jets

  189. denny33 says:

    Lowetide,

    Agreed…..yak was best player available.

    Yak will score 40 goals per year some day….

  190. theres oil in virginia says:

    theres oil in virginia: Lovin that!Where do you think he plays next year?AHL?

    Sorry, lazy question. I answered it myself (well, actually you answered it in November!):

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2013/11/11-prospect-mitchell-moroz.html

  191. Lowetide says:

    theres oil in virginia: Lovin that!Where do you think he plays next year?AHL?

    That’s my guess. He could play in the ECHL but AHL more likely.

  192. OilClog says:

    Removing Lowe is strictly for the series of boneheaded comments he’s made to the fanbase. Maybe he’s giving Rob Ford Lessons or other way around.. Maybe they have the same agent.

    MacT has made some good moves, signing all the bottom end guys he did can be considered a wart, but like he said, they’re nothing more then plugs. Ference, Gordon, Perron, Hendricks all players.

    I’m convinced a Huddy would do miles better with the d-core. Belov wouldn’t be so lost.

    Anyone could teach better then Chabot, wtf is he doing?

    MacT needs to bring in someone that can look Eakins in the eye and have the back bone to say “that won’t work Dallas”

    Is there one coach on the team any other team would let run a Powerplay?

    Eakins needs to be more accountable and learn how to act like a shield for his team, leave the stern lectures, singling out inside the dressing room.

  193. Lowetide says:

    Moroz with 2 assists today, now 48, 25-24-49 on the season.

  194. Pouzar says:

    So the Marincin-Petry pairing is broken up for tonight?

  195. Lowetide says:

    Now Yakupov is a HS. Curious.

  196. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: Now Yakupov is a HS. Curious.

    Gotta be lingering headaches????

  197. leadfarmer says:

    Lowetide,

    I don’t get it. The season is lost. Play the kid and shelter him with some easy minutes and you can do that since this is a home game.

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