THE FULL HEMSKY

I’m beginning to think they should just run highlights of the games and get straight to the media conference. Dallas Eakins is one of the most entertaining things about this Oiler team, and last night was no exception.

NO HITS!

  • Eakins:  “You know what the perfect game is? The perfect game is no hits. You know why that is? It’s because you have the puck. You don’t have to hit anybody. You have the puck. Stat sheet said we outhit them 28-13. Would I have liked more hits? I don’t know, I thought we were good tonight.”

In the last 10 hours, I’ve been told “you’re going to have to help me out with what u see in Eakins. If he werent an “analytics” guy, analytics guys would be up in arms” and the answer is in the quote. Dallas Eakins is devoted to winning hockey games, even in a season that shows a 15-31-6 record (which, if they continue on this course, will end with 23 or 24 wins, a nadir in franchise history). I like Dallas Eakins for the same reason liked Whitey Herzog:  they both stayed up at night trying to figure out how to beat the other guy. You can’t be great when paying attention to the things that don’t matter: the entire Vancouver Canucks history tells you that much, over and over again.

LAST NIGHT’S NUMBERS, VIA PARKATTIPARKATTI

There were some very good things last night, the Ference-J Schultz pairing shone as brightly as I can recall and Taylor Hall was above .500 too. Extra skater had the same numbers for Hall at 5×5 however the 5×5 close is a disaster (Hall at 28.6%). I saw something in between—for me, this game was not quite even but the Canucks received outstanding goaltending and Nick Schultz heard a dog whistle, and the game was close enough that this game usually ends in OT during the Bettman era. I thought Ben Scrivens played well last night.

That’s my take. I agree with Eakins, you can’t go head hunting in a close game and the idea that winning doesn’t matter is poison. Of course it matters. That’s why they play the game.

TRADES!

schultz common1

I wonder how deep the Oilers are willing to go this trade deadline. There’s a list of obvious exports (Bryzgalov, Nick Schultz, perhaps Hemsky, maybe Gagner, a few others) but if a team came calling for Justin Schultz, would they listen? Depending on the offer they’d have to, but he’s going to be a very good hockey player.

Next question, and one asked on twitter yesterday by Michael Parkatti: what about Schultz as a forward?

garner3

LOWDOWN AT LOWETIDE

Lots to talk about today, 10 this morning on TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Michael Parkatti, Boys on the Bus. About last night, Schultz as a forward, Scrivens.
  • Steve Dangle, Leafs Nation. Leafs have won 6 in a row, and have caught the Habs.
  • Bruce McCurdy, Cult of Hockey. A very good hockey mind will give his take on last night, the deadline, and the wrath of the Hockey Gods.
  • Harrison Mooney, Pass it to Bulis and Puck Daddy. Vancouver has a suspended coach, an injured Sedin, and a bunch of role players stepping up.

10-1260 via text, @Lowetide_ on twitter. Great guests, should be fun!

 

PS, Mark Spector is going full Hemsky on Dallas Eakins here.

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158 Responses to "THE FULL HEMSKY"

  1. Pouzar says:

    Bob Stauffer ?@Bob_Stauffer 7m
    Fyi. Oilers GM Craig MacTavish was spotted in Columbus last night. On way to Charlotte for Pro Scouting meetings and to see OKC play

    Yes…let’s make some trades!

  2. BrazilianOil says:

    Off topic:

    In regards the oilers situation, what happened in Montreal a year ago and in Colorado this year for a teams in lottery situation became play off teams in just one season?

    What was the big chance in those teams?
    Is posible this happen in Oiler town ?

  3. Truth says:

    From Twitter this morning:

    Cellblock 303 ‏@Cellblock303 2h
    “Devan Dubnyk came from Edmonton and.. let’s just say he has some bad habits.” – #Preds Head Coach Barry Trotz on @949Game2. #Oilers #NHL

    Trotz can’t be talking about Dubnyk’s ability to play defense. Too bad he didn’t get into more detail, but I’m guessing work habits??

    Whatever it is Trotz is referring to in Dubnyk’s game, IMO he is implying that it is not a surprise to see coming from an Oiler player.

  4. mustang says:

    Sorry LT, I’m curious to know what people here think about that trade Hodgson for Kassian?

  5. goldenchild says:

    Anyone coach that trolls Spector that hard is ok by me. Love that he is calling these guys out on their ridiculous narratives that they have been pushing forever. This team doesnt lose games because they dont hit enoughm they lose because they are not good enough at playing hockey.

    Nick Schultz is interesting to me because if someone trades for him it will be soley based reputation, is their a Tambolini out there who is looking at his junior report instead of the numbers or tape from his season?

    Im now on team #FreeHemsky hope he goes somehwere fun and gives me a team to route for in playoffs.

  6. nelson88 says:

    Eakins maybe devoted to winning hockey games but eventually you actually have to win some.

    Eakins is a smart guy and will not doubt be a good NHL coach some day. Not convinced it is today based on the only thing that matters. Results. How is Paul Maurice doing in Winnipeg.

    Unfortunately it has been such a gong show the last few years I’m not convinced firing another coach is the answer but they should never have gotten themselves into this mess. MacT gets alot of free passes on this board but the guy has made some big time rookie errors.

  7. gcw_rocks says:

    ” I like Dallas Eakins for the same reason liked Whitey Herzog: they both stayed up at night trying to figure out how to beat the other guy. ”

    The difference is Whitey knew what he was doing, where as Eakins appears clueless. Its like Katz saying things are better because there is lots of “activity” in terms of changing Oilers personnel. Adding Acton, Hamilton, Joensuu, Gasdic, Grebeshkov, Hendricks, and MacIntryre all represent activity, but none of it contributes in a material way to winning.

    Eakins burning lots of hours on strategy only matters if the strategy works.

  8. Lowetide says:

    mustang:
    Sorry LT, I’mcurious to know what people here think about that trade Hodgson for Kassian?

    Why do people say sorry LT? You’re free to disagree, I won’t get mad. :-)

  9. russ99 says:

    Justin Schultz is just starting to come around on defense, it would be foolish to trade him or convert him into a forward now.

    BTW – it’s an interesting counterpoint between Marincin and Schultz.

    Marincin has really benefitted from patience and keeping him at a level where he can grow as a player until he’s ready to take the next step.

    I’m hopeful they’re similarly patient with Klefbom and Nurse.

    I do wonder how much of throwing Jultz into the NHL deep end (sink or swim) was due to the agreement bringing him here. How much was role/ice time stipulated when he signed here?

  10. Truth says:

    Regarding Eakins covering for his teams complete lack of physical presence in yesterdays game, I would love to see the MacT of the late 80′s step in to the lineup yesterday and watch what happens to Kassian.

    I’ve been watching quite a few old Oiler games lately thanks to ESPN Classic. I’ve seen MacT go full Bertuzzi for lot less reasoning than the Kassian jaw breaker, clearly without the same extremely unlikely outcome that did occur to Moore. I also cannot remember one instance when MacT was actually the larger combatant. There is no chance MacT liked the lack of pushback from the Oilers, My guess would be the conversations within the team are a lot different than what’s being said to the media.

    There is a lot more wrong with the Oilers than their lack of good hockey players, IMO.

  11. gcw_rocks says:

    BrazilianOil,

    Both teams had a managerial house cleaning.

  12. mustang says:

    Lowetide,

    Well it doesn’t really have anything to do with what you wrote today. What do you think about that trade?

  13. BrazilianOil says:

    gcw_rocks,

    Like fire Lowe, MacT and Eakins ? Do you think is enough ?

  14. russ99 says:

    IMO, this just shows that Eakins is more of the same – focusing time and energy on what he philosophically thinks wins hockey games, not how do you win hockey games in the here and now with this group of players.

    Too much “smartest guy in the room” mentality and not enough adapting to what we have.

  15. Lois Lowe says:

    I love that press conference. This version of the team is an abomination to be sure, but I do like Eakins as a coach. Very rarely do I disagree with the things he says. It’s too bad that people have the pitchforks and torches out already, he deserves another year.

  16. Lowetide says:

    mustang:
    Lowetide,

    Well it doesn’t really have anything to do with what you wrote today. What do you think about that trade?

    Never worry about that, honestly. I cover off topics but the posters here take about 8 seconds to send it somewhere else. I’m cool with it.

    As for the trade, the question that needs to be asked about Kassian is this: can he take and make a pass? If he can, and play with skill, then Vancouver has a chance to get 80 cents on the dollar in that trade.

    If he can’t play, and that’s kind of where it looks like it is heading, then it was an awful trade.

  17. Caramel Obvious says:

    gcw_rocks:
    ” I like Dallas Eakins for the same reason liked Whitey Herzog:they both stayed up at night trying to figure out how to beat the other guy. ”

    The difference is Whitey knew what he was doing, where as Eakins appears clueless.Its like Katz saying things are better because there is lots of “activity” in terms of changing Oilers personnel.Adding Acton, Hamilton, Joensuu, Gasdic, Grebeshkov, Hendricks, and MacIntryre all represent activity, but none of it contributes in a material way to winning.

    Eakins burning lots of hours on strategy only matters if the strategy works.

    So you’re saying you disagree with the Eakins quote. That’s interesting.

    When your criticism stops being a reflex it will start being worth stating.

    Moving J Schultz to forward is a terrible idea. Terrible. Playing defense is hard. Bringing offense from defense is even harder. J Schultz, for all his infuriating play, is almost irreplaceable. Wingers who can score 40 or 50 points a season (assuming he could do that) are not.

    So long as J Schultz is one of your best six defensemen he should play defense.

  18. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: Why do people say sorry LT? You’re free to disagree, I won’t get mad.

    In that case……Why do you hate Eberle? :P

  19. FastOil says:

    I find that Trotz’ quote makes me angry. It’s like more evidence of total incompetence. I suppose that is Eakins’ mandate here.

    We can hope that all the stress of change and losing makes some of these younger players angry, gives them some edge.

    The Edmonton Ingenues thing isn’t working anymore, if it ever did.

  20. PREDICKTER says:

    Just read the word “stress” and it made me think about my stress level while watching this “team” this year. I have none. Zero. Nada. I don’t get pissed at bad plays, don’t get excited at good plays, or goals they score. I’m just sitting there staring at the tv like a fuckin zombie. I guess that a possitive, having no “stress”. This team will help me live longer……… or not.

  21. gcw_rocks says:

    BrazilianOil,

    Fire them all to be safe. Lowe, MacT, Howson, Olzyck, Eakins, the pro scouts, Smith, Buchy, Chabot, Acton. Burn it down and start fresh.

  22. Ribs says:

    Next question, and one asked on twitter yesterday by Michael Parkatti: what about Schultz as a forward?

    It’s usually not a good sign when people start wondering aloud this question about a defenceman.

    It’s sure going to be interesting to see what he ends up signing for.

  23. Snowman says:

    I’ve stated before I’m not all that confident in Eakins. Coaches can steal some games the same way goalies can steal some games. Eakins is either not preparing his team for each game individually because he has to spend too much time on systems or he doesn’t believe in preparing your system for each team you play. Either way, not good.

    Then you combine that with Smid saying “practices are hard here” when he left town and DD’s new boss saying he has bad habits and I think you’ve got some issues with coaching staff. You can’t teach grit, natural ability or compete. You can make people work in practice and you can give them good habits. Those are things that great coaches do. I’m not seeing them with this coaching staff.

    I was lucky enough to compete in a couple sports in university and I’ve been on losing teams and I’ve been on winning teams and the thing that turns losing teams into winning teams is what I like to call pissed off pride. As an athlete you want to be great (or at least you should) and when you get your lunch money stolen every day it should piss you off. It pisses you off in games and it pisses you off in practice and it drives you to be better. I don’t see that in the Oilers. You get someone who is pissed off for a shift. But you never see someone play the whole game with a chip on his shoulder that comes from pissed off pride anymore. I miss that in Taylor Hall. He needs that again. Ference needs that again. Leaders have to lead. Being pissed off with the constant beat downs and showing it would be a good place to start.

  24. Truth says:

    gcw_rocks:
    BrazilianOil,

    Fire them all to be safe. Lowe, MacT, Howson, Olzyck, Eakins, the pro scouts, Smith, Buchy, Chabot, Acton.Burn it down and start fresh.

    In all honesty, what’s the worst that can happen – they re-set the record for fewest wins in a season again next year and have a real shot at McDavid?

  25. Ducey says:

    Putting Jultz up as a forward is a lousy idea. He needs as many at bats as a Dman as possible. He has like 90 NHL games. It takes Dmen 100′s of games to become reliable.

    I don’t see Trotz’s comments regarding DD as a criticism of Eakins. Head coaches rarely coach the goalies on technique. It might be a reason to toss out the goalie coach when they get rid of Bucky and Smith.

  26. WeirsBeard says:

    I think it is obvious Eakins hates to lose. Nice to see in an organization that has accepted it for too many years, even during a rebuild. Haven’t seen it since we moved to a cap era.

    I don’t have any respect for Spec going back to his reporting on Arnott in the mid90s. Reminds me how much I like LTs writing. Focus on the positive, and if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all. Good life lesson

    Reporters that advocate fighting so much have clearly never been in a physical confrontation in their life and don’t understand the modern game nor the individuals that play it.

  27. gcw_rocks says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    No, my point is there is a difference between recognizing a problem and being able to fix it.

    If you actually read what I comment on, I give MacT and Eakins credit when I think they do something good. Well, I have for MacT (e.g. Horcoff trade, Scrivens trade). Still waiting for something from Eakins.

    I didn’t comment on Eakins quote at all. I would agree going after Kassian is a waste of time. A two hander across the wrist or ankle of a Sedin, maybe. Fighting Kassian, pointless.

  28. WeirsBeard says:

    Hey LT,
    Can we get an Olympic break rant from Dennis on here? That guy needs to get back up on the soapbox every once in a while.

  29. gcw_rocks says:

    Pouzar,

    So, who has Howson recommended they pursue and at what cost? Jenner? Dansk? Or at they going to get Umberger? Nikitin and cross their fingers he re-signs?

  30. verdad says:

    Again, the Eakins press conference of last night is a distraction. Two priorities for improving the team , that all Oiler fans can only hope for.
    First, fire Lowe. No one in the organization can believe they are accountable for anything as long as this man is on the payroll. As long as he stays with the Oilers why would any player believe that “consequences” ever happen.
    Second, waive Gagner this afternoon. Look at his play not just last night or this season but over the entire woeful seven years. He creates no value to positive dynamics within the team. that has been true for the last seven years. Its just reached its apex this season. Flushing would be improvement, even if in the short run we had to savor more Anton Lander.
    As for Eakins, it would positive to fire him He has Captain Queeg written all over him. His response to the questions in last night’s press conference were classic. He knows full well his team is physically deficient. That their efforts keep eroding as the season wears on. And that fundamentally he has made things worse. Pity he won’t admit. Instead he spars with reporters and terrorizes the poor Russian talent.

  31. TheOtherJohn says:

    Lowetide: Why do people say sorry LT? You’re free to disagree, I won’t get mad.

    I’m not sorry LT you are worng.

    Not sure about what but having been married 33 years mistakes are banked for future use

  32. hoser313 says:

    Ducey:
    Putting Jultz up as a forward is a lousy idea.He needs as many at bats as a Dman as possible. He has like 90 NHL games.It takes Dmen 100′s of games to become reliable.

    This 100%. I would swear he’s looked better in the second half of this season. Watch how many times Ference passes him the puck during the course of a game.

  33. Woodguy says:

    Just saw JeanShortandBagged milk post this link:

    http://oilfans.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&rid=5314&SQ=971da0c2962bdc7f80855a0830c15c7e&th=42735&goto=622559#msg_622559

    Just a letter from Lowe the last time everyone wanted his head. Right after the Smyth trade.

    Here’s the letter:


    Hi, this is Kevin Lowe.

    After a very eventful week around the hockey club, I wanted to take a moment and communicate to you, our most valued customers, our continued commitment to success.

    As I stated last week, our hockey club will always do what we feel is in the best interest of our fans, and in the best interest of building a Stanley Cup championship team here in Oil Country.

    Right now, we have a core group of veteran players and a wealth of emerging young talent. Last week’s trade brought us two more young players in Robert Nilsson and Ryan O’Marra, and another first round draft choice in this year’s NHL draft. They will join players like Pouliot, Jacques, Stortini, Brodziak, and Schremp, just to name a few, as potential members of a championship Oilers club. Certainly, along the way, we will add to our roster through trades and free agency when the right opportunities are there, now that we have the resources to do so. Make no mistake; our plan is to return the Stanley Cup to Edmonton.

    We have an exciting future ahead of us all, and we look forward to sharing it with you.

    Thanks again for your ongoing support of Oilers Hockey.

    Its just so goddam sad and funny in retrospect.

    Our only hope is MacT.

    Godspeed MacT!!!

  34. TheOtherJohn says:

    Eakins press conference performance last night flows from the letter. Anyone who thinks Eakins has not been woriied about his continued employment is crazy. 15-31-6 The owner telling the world “we have a plan***, and we are not moving people out and are committed to sticking to the plan” is a pretty big vote of confidence from the only person that matters.

    So he chirps Spec. Actually should have asked Spec where top 3 D man Cam Barker is playing right now but……ah opportunities missed

    **** someone whould tell Katz they’ve moved away from referring to “the Plan” because it is indelibly tied to the since discreditted Tambellini regime (most of whom remain employed by the team) and everything associated with Tambellini has been thoroughly dsicredited. Not the Hall and Eberle contracts but……….wait for it…….: someone else in management will step up and take credit for those decisions

  35. Colieo87 says:

    Lowetide,

    It’s the canadain way very similar when a canadain accidently bumps into an other person they always say sorry and are apologetic . It’s just the way some of us are. Sorry LT

  36. book¡je says:

    Lois Lowe:
    I love that press conference. This version of the team is an abomination to be sure, but I do like Eakins as a coach. Very rarely do I disagree with the things he says. It’s too bad that people have the pitchforks and torches out already, he deserves another year.

    I agree, its after press conferences like this that I flip to supporting the guy. Its after games where the team plays far worse than my nephews midget team and the power play looks pathetic that I want to fire him because that has to be at least partially the result of coaching.

    I hate this team because they are maddening!

  37. bendelson says:

    Truth: From Twitter this morning:Cellblock 303 ‏@Cellblock303 2h“Devan Dubnyk came from Edmonton and.. let’s just say he has some bad habits.” – #Preds Head Coach Barry Trotz on @949Game2. #Oilers #NHLTrotz can’t be talking about Dubnyk’s ability to play defense. Too bad he didn’t get into more detail, but I’m guessing work habits??Whatever it is Trotz is referring to in Dubnyk’s game, IMO he is implying that it is not a surprise to see coming from an Oiler player.

    Losing hurts. Losing as much as the Oilers lost during DD’s time in Edm kills – his motivation/competitive spirit that is.

    I would suggest Trotz is refering to DD’s will to win. Work habits, focus, fighting through tough situations – these things can become a real challenge in a perennial losing environment such as Edmonton.

    As has been mentioned, one hopes the athlete’s pride gets in the way and the player finds a way to self-motivate and fight through the pain, but there is a limit to how often one can go to that well successfully.

    I believe DD reached that limit in Edmonton and not surprisingly appears to have carried the baggage with him to Nashville.

    Trotz will fix him – maybe.

  38. Pouzar says:

    LT,

    Greg Hawgood maybe?

  39. icecastles says:

    gcw_rocks: Fire them all to be safe. Lowe, MacT, Howson, Olzyck, Eakins, the pro scouts, Smith, Buchy, Chabot, Acton.

    I don’t think “safe” means what you think it means.

  40. Woodguy says:

    nelson88:
    Eakins maybe devoted to winning hockey games but eventually you actually have to win some.

    Eakins is a smart guy and will not doubt be a good NHL coach some day. Not convinced it is today based on the only thing that matters. Results. How is Paul Maurice doing in Winnipeg.

    Unfortunately it has been such a gong show the last few years I’m not convinced firing another coach is the answer but they should never have gotten themselves into this mess.MacT gets alot of free passes on this board but the guy has made some big time rookie errors.

    The biggest problem with Eakins is not how he deploys his players.

    Its the players he’s given to deploy.

  41. Pouzar says:

    gcw_rocks:
    Pouzar,

    So, who has Howson recommended they pursue and at what cost? Jenner? Dansk? Or at they going to get Umberger? Nikitin and cross their fingers he re-signs?

    Man if I only knew that :)

  42. Woodguy says:

    bendelson,

    I would suggest Trotz is refering to DD’s will to win. Work habits, focus, fighting through tough situations – these things can become a real challenge in a perennial losing environment such as Edmonton.

    I’d suggest its entirely his technique.

    DD gets shelled for 5 in his first game and after working with Mitch Korn for a couple day, Korn reports to Trotz that DD has some flaws in his fundamentals (like a 6’6″ goalie getting beaten over his shoulders all the time)

    NAS has been a goalie factory and Korn has been there from the start:

    http://predators.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=36990

  43. Woodguy says:

    Truth:
    Regarding Eakins covering for his teams complete lack of physical presence in yesterdays game, I would love to see theMacT of the late 80′s step in to the lineup yesterday and watch what happens to Kassian.

    I’ve been watching quite a few old Oiler games lately thanks to ESPN Classic.I’ve seen MacT go full Bertuzzi forlot less reasoning than the Kassian jaw breaker, clearly without the same extremely unlikely outcome that did occur to Moore. I also cannot remember one instance when MacT was actually the larger combatant.There is no chance MacT liked the lack of pushback from the Oilers,My guess would be the conversations within the team are a lot different than what’s being said to the media.

    There is a lot more wrong with the Oilers than their lack of good hockey players, IMO.

    Eakins addressed that.

    When talking about just jumping a player, he said “maybe 20 years ago you could do that”

    Its a different world and a different game.

  44. Woodguy says:

    FastOil:
    I find that Trotz’ quote makes me angry. It’s like more evidence of total incompetence. I suppose that is Eakins’ mandate here.

    We can hope that all the stress of change and losing makes some of these younger players angry, gives them some edge.

    The Edmonton Ingenues thing isn’t working anymore, if it ever did.

    Stauffer alluded to Eakins cleaning house in terms of his assistant coaches in the summer.

    He suggested that Eakins agreed to keep the old Asst. coaches around because he didn’t know the players.

    Know that he knows them he’ll put his own people in place.

    We wait.

  45. Showerhead says:

    I like Dallas Eakins for the same reason liked Whitey Herzog: they both stayed up at night trying to figure out how to beat the other guy.

    I am completely on board with this. As far as I can tell, Dallas Eakins’ strengths include:
    1) Having a sense as to what factors actually win hockey games
    2) A commitment to continual learning and improvement
    3) Great press conferences

    I worry about Eakins when it comes to:
    1) Making chicken soup out of chicken shit
    2) Figuring out how to communicate mistakes and flaws without sounding like he’s blasting a player (I think he is so focused on being “right” that he hasn’t always said things that are “helpful”)
    3) Teaching systems. The swarm was a fail, and I don’t know what’s next because Edmonton doesn’t much look like they keep a system when they play.

    There were some very good things last night, the Ference-J Schultz pairing shone as brightly as I can recall and Taylor Hall was above .500 too. Extra skater had the same numbers for Hall at 5×5 however the 5×5 close is a disaster (Hall at 28.6%). I saw something in between—for me, this game was not quite even but the Canucks received outstanding goaltending and Nick Schultz heard a dog whistle.

    Nick Schultz is a shell of a defenseman. I’ve watched a handful of games on TV / through crappy feeds this year and couldn’t figure out what everyone else was talking about. I thought he was just fine. After seeing him live on Saturday, the guy can’t keep up – he is always one step behind the play or one stride behind his check. Steve Tambellini could evaluate an entire rebuild in the time it takes between a forward changing direction and Nick Schultz changing edges to match.

    Taylor Hall – Mudcrutch has a great string of posts which essentially say Hall is spending the same amount of time in each zone as last year but that Hall is not generating shots while his opponents are. I’m torn between a few ideas, one of which has me thinking my coffee had something strange in in last Saturday vs. the Jets – with Hall on the ice, Edmonton played a 4-man box for the first 5-10 seconds of several defensive possessions. Why? Because Hall was floating back through the neutral zone waiting for a puck to be turned over instead of joining the defense. My memory has this happening several times so I think it was systemic (as opposed to Hall being lazy). Maybe it didn’t even happen – no one else has said anything about it – but I think I saw a terrible defensive approach geared towards the off chance that 4 Oiler players could turn the puck around without their LW.

  46. Pouzar says:

    Woodguy: Stauffer alluded to Eakins cleaning house in terms of his assistant coaches in the summer.

    He suggested that Eakins agreed to keep the old Asst. coaches around because he didn’t know the players.

    Know that he knows them he’ll put his own people in place.

    We wait.

    Eakins has to get his own coaches right? Right?

  47. Caramel Obvious says:

    I love how people say that the Oilers should have hired Paul Maurice.

    You know who Paul Maurice thinks is an excellent coach?

    A: Dallas Eakins.

  48. Showerhead says:

    Pouzar: Man if I only knew that

    OT – Pouzar, were you the one who said you’d be right behind the Oilers’ bench at the Jets game? If so, I’m pretty sure I saw you bc there was only one EDM jersey in the row and I was straight across the ice from you. I hope the rest of your day was better than the game!

  49. Andy P says:

    This is a team of zombies playing without soul. They are like the tale of the ancient mariner, on a rotting sailing ship in the middle of a becalmed ocean, waiting for a breath of good fortune that will take them back to the trade winds, or, more likely, slow painful death by thirst and starvation .

    The dogs are no longer a pack and they have lost their fight and their confidence. The Core is deadlocked with the Coach over the defensive play required of so-called offensive stars. Talented people who are producing way lower than where they should be.

    Sails and decks rotting, each side refusing to step down.

    No changers to the core, unless they refuse to re-sign and go UFA. No changes to any of the coaching staff, or to the management team. They just have to go through the motions in hope of a better day in the future.

    An owner who would sooner move the franchise than change his loyalties and his approach.

    How can this possibly improve? All we really have to watch, is the absolute destruction of a once proud franchise that had the most loyal fans in the league.

  50. Pouzar says:

    Showerhead: OT – Pouzar, were you the one who said you’d be right behind the Oilers’ bench at the Jets game? If so, I’m pretty sure I saw you bc there was only one EDM jersey in the row and I was straight across the ice from you. I hope the rest of your day was better than the game!

    Yeah that was me. :)
    I got a lot of air time apparently. In the 1st and 3rd periods I coulda sat my beer on Acton’s head.

    When the Oilers tied the game I jumped up and let the Jets fans have it. There was one guy a few rows up just screaming at me…I thought I wouldn’t make it out alive :)

  51. goldenchild says:

    Woodguy,

    Jauques and Stortini . Seriously.

  52. bendelson says:

    Woodguy,

    You may be correct.

    If that is the case, do you think Nashville was unaware of these flaws in his game when they made the move or that they were fully aware but confident Korn can fix him (quickly)?

    And what does all of this say about Edmonton’s goalie coach?

  53. Ducey says:

    From TSN:

    Who might be available and who might be on the move in Edmonton?

    Darren Dreger: Sam Gagner, we know. Ales Hemsky, we know. Ryan Smyth is expected. There’s no dialog between Craig MacTavish and Ryan Smyth. The belief is that Smyth wants one more crack with a winning team to see if he can win the Stanley Cup. He’s still effective, at least in the offensive zone, so I expect his name will heat up as we get closer to the deadline

  54. Marcus Oilerius says:

    I should really stop browsing hfboards, but sometimes they come up with a gem. Users dug up a letter that Lowe himself wrote to the season ticket holders in 2007.

    http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=354867

  55. Showerhead says:

    Pouzar: Yeah that was me.
    I got a lot of air time apparently. In the 1st and 3rd periods I coulda sat my beer on Acton’s head.

    When the Oilers tied the game I jumped up and let the Jets fans have it. There was one guy a few rows up just screaming at me…I thought I wouldn’t make it out alive

    Hah nice, good times. Wish EDM’s D had your gusto.

  56. "Steve Smith" says:

    Showerhead:
    I worry about Eakins when it comes to:
    1)Making chicken soup out of chicken shit

    Let me tell you from personal experience that this is severely overrated (and apparently a violation of the Criminal Code provisions with regard to introducing a noxious substance. Fascists.).

  57. DeadmanWaking says:

    Truth:
    I would love to see the MacT of the late 80′s step in to the lineup yesterday and watch what happens to Kassian.

    Depends whether you transport the game back to the 1980s, or the player forward to 2014. In the second case, first MacT sits for having no lid.

    In the case where the 1980s has home ice advantage, it additionally depends on whether you bring old-timey onion-toking-MacT up to speed on Boulerice, McSorley, Bertuzzi without getting into all the future rule changes. I’m sure none of those stories would bring a tear to his burning eyes.

    Kassian needed to be held way more responsible for his stick scything through the noggin canopy (inhabited) like Blackbeard’s last and best birch rod warmup practice stroke.

    It’s one thing if your stick flies up in the tangle of contact. That’s hard to avoid, even by a competent thug. It’s another thing if your stick flies up because you underestimated the skill of your victim at pulling up short of your ham-assed marauding, and you had no plan to control your stick whatsoever. Not your problem.

    Sorry, it is your problem. No contact, no excuse. Forty games. That risk is on his shoulders when he chugs hard and late into a hit he might not land.

    Once he’s been punished by the league, however incompetently, the score is officially settled. We can still hate his guts for being a human douche-bag. So yeah, heap on the “no love” treatment, but pull up short of sending a retaliatory message up the escalator that disembarks through the white doors of epileptic intubation.

    As usual, NHL head office needs a wake-up wedgie. It’s a simple equation.

    Onus + Head injury = Long Term Bonehead Remove.

    In cases like this one, the carefully titrated incremental rap sheet is the worst goose pate bullshit. After a brief and ineffective hiatus, Kassian argued this to perfection with his post-scrum douche wag. This is how I wipe my ass! (Sideways, with my index finger, into my shaggy butt hair.) So suck it!.

  58. delooper says:

    If J. Schultz and Gagner are wingers you’d have a team with a heck of a lot of wingers, and almost no centres or defencemen. Maybe they should have kept Dubnyk and made him a winger too!

    I thought last night’s game was okay. Could people tell if it looked like the Canucks were “playing down” to the Oilers game? Maybe a bit to my eye. The Canucks seemed a little too happy with the one goal lead. But the Oilers had chances. The main disappointment to me was the Oilers final 10 minutes was *far* *far* better hockey than anything they did in the first period.

    It looked a little like the Oilers lapsed back into pond hockey at the end. They seem much more comfortable with that high risk game.

  59. LMHF#1 says:

    Woodguy: Stauffer alluded to Eakins cleaning house in terms of his assistant coaches in the summer.

    He suggested that Eakins agreed to keep the old Asst. coaches around because he didn’t know the players.

    Know that he knows them he’ll put his own people in place.

    We wait.

    Doesn’t this speak to his judgement though? That’s horrible reasoning and the decision also appeared to have been made in an unnecessarily rushed manner. If you’re going to change things, do it now so that people can get working on next year ASAP.

    People in this sport have so many random notions about things they can’t do and when they can’t do them…very annoying. Eakins could coach in a frigging chicken suit

  60. vangolf says:

    DeadmanWaking,

    The focus should not be on original stick swinging incident (unfortunate, league dealt with it, etc.). It is the aftermath (ie., Kassian gesturing to the jaw, yapping, etc.) that says the score is not settled. It seems many disagree with me (and maybe Spector..yuck) that incremental culture change of sticking up for one another is more important than a W at this point in a lost season. Defenders of the Eakins presser seem to have polarized the options; do nothing or Bertuzzi/Moore him. There are many shades of grey and it possible to send a response that isn’t criminal thuggery. The irony is that posters often complain about the lack of passion the team plays with…can’t have it both ways.

  61. nelson88 says:

    Woodguy,

    I will be the first to agree that the Oilers are unbalanced and don’t have the horses to be cup contenders but pretty much DFL in the entire league? Bullshit. The coach needs to wear some of that. There playing like a bunch of zombies and that is not just on the make up of the team.

  62. nelson88 says:

    Eakins should have changed his assistants. Almost every successful senior manager does when they enter a new role. Unfortunately the upcoming firing of the assistants will be just another excuse. Just like the popular narrative that somehow the revolving door of role players are the reason this team can’t win. I haven’t lived in Edmonton for years but I always find that fascinating dynamic given that it is supposedly a “blue collar” town.

  63. oilersfan says:

    Stauffer said yesterday that we should not be surprised if the oielrs change their assistants in the offseason.

  64. nelson88 says:

    Del Zotto to the Preds. Webber on his way out of town or just the Preds buying low on another asset?

  65. nelson88 says:

    TSN now reporting Klein going back the other way so likely the latter.

  66. neojanus says:

    From what I have gathered and observed, it seems clear that MacT and Eakins have a similar idea about what it takes to actually win in this league. It comes down to strength with the puck, defensive responsibility, and precise transitions.

    Very few teams are actually built to win in this league; many can compete game to game, but there are few teams built to actually win the grand prize.

    The Oilers are jiggered in somewhere near the top of the bottom (despite the results) and we’ve seen this Oilers team take it to most teams in the bottom tier of the league — crippling lop-sided wins with 6 or 7 goals for the Oilers.

    They win these games this way when their transition game is pin-point accurate. That is their only strength when it works. Repeatedly this team stands no chance because of a lack of defensive responsibility and an inability to dictate play due to being very weak on the puck.

    No coach in the history of sports can stop feathery players from being out-muscled until those players use the strength to dictate play. That’s why small teams need a horse for a power forward or a player that can single handedly direct a power play to make the opposition pay at least once a game.

    Furthermore, no coach in the history of sports asks players to make the mistakes that the Oilers defence make every game. No coach asks Belov to be a step or two behind the attacking player; no coach asks Petry to lose his man and get twisted inside out. All you can do is get pissed off at those players and try to understand what the hell they are thinking.

    When the Oilers stop making mistakes, they at least compete… but they still can’t dictate play against strong teams.

    They need to have an actual elite d-man that can carry the load to compensate for an excess of capable 3-4 d-men that they can’t possibly get value for now and they need someone to come in an teach this team how to engineer a power play that would make Steven Stamkos proud to watch.

    The only other option is to blow-up this elite talent to get players that can cycle like the dickens to physically outplay the opposition.

    I think a mix of the two is required. Until the Oilers have strength and a defensive mule, competing against the best of the league is a David vs Goliath adventure every game.

  67. G Money says:

    nelson88:
    Del Zotto to the Preds. Webber on his way out of town or just the Preds buying low on another asset?

    Let’s hope that’s what it is, and that MacT is the guy on the other side of the equation.

    Otherwise, it’s very odd that a cash-strapped defense-heavy offense-light team like the Predators would add a $3M defenseman to a corps that already includes Weber, Josi, Jones, and Ellis.

  68. Pouzar says:

    This is why love/hate predicting NHL trades…in all The MDZ rumors who had him going to the defense-heavy Preds?

  69. icecastles says:

    nelson88: Eakins should have changed his assistants. Almost every successful senior manager does when they enter a new role.

    I’m just going to go ahead and assume that you are not a “successful senior manager,” nor have you been around many. Prime time television does not a business expert make.

    Lots of folks here are enjoying the 20/20 vision that hindsight seems to offer. Though I wonder what the tone would be had Eakins brought in entirely new support staff when he started, and had the season went as it has. My guess is that many of the same armchair experts would be shouting that, “Eakins should not have fired the assistants. Almost every successful senior manager uses a transitional period with experienced help when they enter a new role.

  70. Pouzar says:

    icecastles: I’m just going to go ahead and assume that you are not a “successful senior manager,” nor have you been around many. Prime time television does not a business expert make.

    Lots of folks here are enjoying the 20/20 vision that hindsight seems to offer. Though I wonder what the tone would be had Eakins brought in entirely new support staff when he started, and had the season went as it has. My guess is that many of the same armchair experts would be shouting that, “Eakins should not have fired the assistants. Almost every successful senior manager uses a transitional period with experienced help when they enter a new role.

    I have no idea what you read in the preseason but loads of Oiler fans were wondering why Eakins didn’t bring in his own assistants. What’s hindsight have to do with it?

  71. nelson88 says:

    icecastles,

    How about we agree to disagree and leave our manly parts in our pants.

  72. book¡je says:

    Woodguy:
    bendelson,

    I would suggest Trotz is refering to DD’s will to win. Work habits, focus, fighting through tough situations – these things can become a real challenge in a perennial losing environment such as Edmonton.

    I’d suggest its entirely his technique.

    DD gets shelled for 5 in his first game and after working with Mitch Korn for a couple day, Korn reports to Trotz that DD has some flaws in his fundamentals (like a 6’6″ goalie getting beaten over his shoulders all the time)

    NAS has been a goalie factory and Korn has been there from the start:

    http://predators.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=36990

    Maybe the goalie coach in Edmonton goes with the rest of the assistants…

  73. G Money says:

    neojanus: The only other option is to blow-up this elite talent to get players that can cycle like the dickens to physically outplay the opposition.

    You know, I agree with everything you posted, but your point about “elite talent” deserves a little bit of analysis. This is a point that Caramel has made repeatedly, but I think the bluster and tone of voice he uses in his posts means the point sometimes gets ignored.

    We all recognize the weaknesses in this team – small players, only three NHL-level defenseman all being asked to play at least two or three spots too high, and a lack of NHL quality players on the third and fourth lines.

    The offset to this, the reason we believe that the team should be doing better, is because of our “elite talent”. We have three #1 picks after all! But are we actually elite yet? I think the answer is clearly and definitively “no”. Here’s why.

    First, let’s look at what it means to be a #1 pick. At any given time, assuming say a 15 year career, and assuming that most years the #1 and #2 pick is interchangeable, that means there are 30 top-2 picks playing in the NHL.

    Given that the vast majority of these picks are forwards, and that those are going to be distributed among L-C-R, what you’d hope to get out of your top picks is that they are top 10 at their respective positions. To be undeniably elite, you could even argue that they need to be above average for a top pick, meaning top 5 at their position. This is what I’m using as my definition of elite talent.

    Here’s how the Oilers (this season) are doing right now in terms of where our talent stacks up:

    Taylor Hall – #3 LW – our one and only undeniably elite talent

    Jordan Eberle – #9 RW – man we lucked out with this guy. An elite talent picked up at #22.

    David Perron – #12 LW – this guy’s an elite second line winger. Being in the top 30 would be impressive. Being #12 is unreal. Anyone who thinks the Perron trade was bad is an idiot. Seriously.

    RNH – #26 C – This is where our argument that our #1 picks give us elite talent starts to break down. As it currently stands, RNH is a bottom tier #1 C in this league. Please don’t get me wrong – I think RNH puts on muscle, finds his man strength, and becomes a true top tier talent. But he’s not that this year. Another 10 pts puts him there.

    Ales Hemsky – #37 RW – for all the heat he’s taking, Hemsky is actually doing well for a second line winger. Considering he’s been playing at 3RW a lot, that’s pretty good.

    Nail Yakupov – #50 RW – again, I have little doubt that this guy is a future elite talent. But right now, he’s a #1 pick playing at the level of a bottom tier second liner.

    Sam Gagner – #85 C – yeah, he’s missed bunch of games. But wow.

    So there you have it. Do the Oilers truly have elite talent up front? More than other teams?

    The answer is no. Worse still, we are struggling the worst at the most important position, centre.

    When RNH and Yak both live up to their potential and become Top 10 at their positions, this team will be dynamite up front. They’ll probably be good enough as a group that they’ll challenge for a playoff spot even if MacT does nothing to address the 2C spot or the putridness of the defense.

    But we are not nearly there yet.

  74. Andy P says:

    book¡je: Maybe the goalie coach in Edmonton goes with the rest of the assistants…

    That will be a happy day.

  75. Woodguy says:

    goldenchild:
    Woodguy,

    Jauques and Stortini . Seriously.

    The future was bright!

  76. Woodguy says:

    bendelson:
    Woodguy,

    You may be correct.

    If that is the case, do you think Nashville was unaware of these flaws in his game when they made the move or that they were fully aware but confident Korn can fix him (quickly)?

    And what does all of this say about Edmonton’s goalie coach?

    Very good questions.

    I bet Korn can fix him.

    He’s a goalie factory.

  77. fifthcartel says:

    What a prick statement by Trotz. Dubnyk put up solid save percentages up until this year when he imploded, I would like to see other teams comment about acquiring players from Nashville not being able to score. “Well… he’s from Nashville.”

  78. Woodguy says:

    nelson88:
    Woodguy,

    I will be the first to agree that the Oilers are unbalanced and don’t have the horses to be cup contenders but pretty much DFL in the entire league? Bullshit. The coach needs to wear some of that. There playing like a bunch of zombies and that is not just on the make up of the team.

    I think Eakins needs to fully own the PowerPlay disaster. He has the horses to have one of the best ones in the league.

    The PK is ok.

    As for 5v5, they simply can’t match up with anyone good.

    The fact that they can beat teams when they don’t have an actual 1st pairing D combo is actually impressive.

  79. Woodguy says:

    nelson88:
    TSN now reporting Klein going back the other way so likely the latter.

    Poile signed some bad contracts this summer.

    Hendricks had the lowest corsi for his position on NSH and 3 more years.

    Klein had the worst corsi for his position on NSH and 3 more years.

    Both gone before the deadline.

    Terrible signings by Poile.

    Full marks for recognizing his mistakes and moving them out.

  80. Woodguy says:

    fifthcartel:
    What a prick statement by Trotz. Dubnyk put up solid save percentages up until this year when he imploded, I would like to see other teams comment about acquiring players from Nashville not being able to score. “Well… he’s from Nashville.”

    Trotz was right.

    The full quote was that DD “picked up some bad habits this year”

    Sounds like they knew DD was quality before this year, lost it early on as we all know, and picked up some bad habits that they have already identified.

    They sound smart, not prickish.

  81. russ99 says:

    G Money: We all recognize the weaknesses in this team – small players, only three NHL-level defenseman all being asked to play at least two or three spots too high, and a lack of NHL quality players on the third and fourth lines.

    IMO we do have what will be elite talent at forward in 2-4 years – once they fill out and can’t be as easily pushed around; with 1/2 C as the obvious point where we can get better.

    And the roadmap for us to move forward to a playoff team is spot on – NHL veteran bottom six/shutdown line to play the hard sledding defensive minutes and teach the kids; above average NHL level defensemen to keep the keepers on D at where they should be at this stage in their development.

    The question is how much of that can MacT realistically acquire in one deadline-FA period?

  82. icecastles says:

    Pouzar: I have no idea what you read in the preseason but loads of Oiler fans were wondering why Eakins didn’t bring in his own assistants. What’s hindsight have to do with it?

    I don’t think fan musings are now a substitute for business school. I’m sure you don’t either.

    Are you implying that there is a direct relation between what “Almost every successful senior manager does” and what sports fans wonder about? There is literally no correlation here whatsoever.

    nelson88: How about we agree to disagree and leave our manly parts in our pants.

    Don’t quite follow you on the “manly parts in our pants” comment I’m afraid, but disagreeing is what we do here. We debate different perspectives, providing our reasons, and thus ferret out what we feel are the most compelling or rational arguments. My ideas are rebutted all the time, as are everyone’s. No need to be offended or start talking about “manly parts.”

  83. G Money says:

    Woodguy: I think Eakins needs to fully own the PowerPlay disaster. He has the horses to have one of the best ones in the league.

    I noted with surprise during last nights game that the Oiler PP is ranked 23rd in the league on the road – no surprise there. But it is also ranked 5th in the league at home – not in keeping with the common narrative.

    Perhaps the real question is – why the f is the PP effective at home and not on the road? They can’t be using different coaches!

  84. neojanus says:

    G Money: You know, I agree with everything you posted, but your point about “elite talent” deserves a little bit of analysis.This is a point that Caramel has made repeatedly, but I think the bluster and tone of voice he uses in his posts means the point sometimes gets ignored.

    We all recognize the weaknesses in this team – small players, only three NHL-level defenseman all being asked to play at least two or three spots too high, and a lack of NHL quality players on the third and fourth lines.

    The offset to this, the reason we believe that the team should be doing better, is because of our “elite talent”.We have three #1 picks after all! But are we actually elite yet?I think the answer is clearly and definitively “no”.Here’s why.

    First, let’s look at what it means to be a #1 pick.At any given time, assuming say a 15 year career, and assuming that most years the #1 and #2 pick is interchangeable, that means there are 30 top-2 picks playing in the NHL.

    Given that the vast majority of these picks are forwards, and that those are going to be distributed among L-C-R, what you’d hope to get out of your top picks is that they are top 10 at their respective positions.To be undeniably elite, you could even argue that they need to be above average for a top pick, meaning top 5 at their position.This is what I’m using as my definition of elite talent.

    Here’s how the Oilers (this season) are doing right now in terms of where our talent stacks up:

    Taylor Hall – #3 LW – our one and only undeniably elite talent

    Jordan Eberle – #9 RW – man we lucked out with this guy. An elite talent picked up at #22.

    David Perron – #12 LW – this guy’s an elite second line winger.Being in the top 30 would be impressive.Being #12 is unreal. Anyone who thinks the Perron trade was bad is an idiot.Seriously.

    RNH – #26 C – This is where our argument that our #1 picks give us elite talent starts to break down.As it currently stands, RNH is a bottom tier #1 C in this league.Please don’t get me wrong – I think RNH puts on muscle, finds his man strength, and becomes a true top tier talent.But he’s not that this year.Another 10 pts puts him there.

    Ales Hemsky – #37 RW – for all the heat he’s taking, Hemsky is actually doing well for a second line winger.Considering he’s been playing at 3RW a lot, that’s pretty good.

    Nail Yakupov – #50 RW – again, I have little doubt that this guy is a future elite talent.But right now, he’s a #1 pick playing at the level of a bottom tier second liner.

    Sam Gagner – #85 C – yeah, he’s missed bunch of games.But wow.

    So there you have it.Do the Oilers truly have elite talent up front?More than other teams?

    The answer is no.Worse still, we are struggling the worst at the most important position, centre.

    When RNH and Yak both live up to their potential and become Top 10 at their positions, this team will be dynamite up front.They’ll probably be good enough as a group that they’ll challenge for a playoff spot even if MacT does nothing to address the 2C spot or the putridness of the defense.

    But we are not nearly there yet.

    Yes, I agree here. I should have said potential elite talent. Even if our best players develop to their best capabilities, this is still not a “strong” team and can’t take the load of physically competing against a league more and more built on cycle strength.

    The Oilers’ transition game could be the best in the league down the road, but that will probably only ever be enough to merely compete until there are some player swaps of real note.

  85. fifthcartel says:

    Woodguy,

    Yeah, that’s true, The “he’s from Edmonton” part just kinda bugged me.

  86. G Money says:

    icecastles: No need to be offended or start talking about “manly parts.”

    Just to be clear, my manly parts went to b school (along with the rest of me). And my manly parts unequivocally demand: FIRE THE ASSISTANT COACHES!

  87. G Money says:

    russ99: The question is how much of that can MacT realistically acquire in one deadline-FA period?

    The answer to this question is what I most fear about the teams prospects for next year.

    I think RNH goes Top 10 next year. I think Yak hits Top 10 the year after.

    What can MacT do? He can add some good third and fourth line players. He can add some capable NHL D to at least have a decent top 6. He can make it so we’re at least challenging for a playoff spot next year.

    But there’s no 1D out there for the taking.

    So unless he’s in the Weber sweepstakes (if those even exist), becoming a contender means waiting for and hoping that Nurse becomes a true #1D. And that is a long long road fraught with team-swallowing potholes.

  88. Pouzar says:

    G Money: Just to be clear, my manly parts went to b school (along with the rest of me).And my manly parts unequivocally demand: FIRE THE ASSISTANT COACHES!

    Here’s where I stand as well. I swear I haven’t really shared in the vitriol that a lot of others have regarding all things Katz/Lowe/Eakins but how these Assistants are still employed befuddles me.

  89. fifthcartel says:

    fifthcartel:
    Woodguy,

    Yeah, that’s true, The “he’s from Edmonton” part just kinda bugged me.

    My mistake, quote wasn’t nearly as bad as I thought.

  90. Bag of Pucks says:

    Normally I’m not a big fan of the ‘Torts’ antagonize the media approach. The short term upside is not worth the long term downside, but….Spector is a clown.

    Yes, the Oilers aren’t a hard enough team to play against, but by insinuating there should be some retribution for Kassian’s hit on Gagner, he’s basically challenging Eakins to pull another Bertuzzi on Moore. Eakins is right to call out the hypocrisy on this. On one hand, the media calls for frontier justice. On the other hand, it’s barbaric and an affront to the game.

    In today’s politically correct climate, there’s no upside to the revenge game. The best you can hope for now is Gazdic challenges him to a fight, Kassian turns him down and is embarrassed in the process. For Gags, it’s a pyrrhic victory at best. The only way this goes away long term is by having a handful of heavy guys in the lineup, that can answer the bell. Not goons, but guys that can play AND fight when they have to. Man, would the complexion of this team change with a Lucic or Iginla in his prime in the lineup.

  91. book¡je says:

    Woodguy: Trotz was right.

    The full quote was that DD “picked up some bad habits this year”

    Sounds like they knew DD was quality before this year, lost it early on as we all know, and picked up some bad habits that they have already identified.

    They sound smart, not prickish.

    Could that be seen as a critisism of Eakins? I am not saying it is, but just wondering.

  92. book¡je says:

    Woodguy: I think Eakins needs to fully own the PowerPlay disaster.He has the horses to have one of the best ones in the league.

    The PK is ok.

    As for 5v5, they simply can’t match up with anyone good.

    The fact that they can beat teams when they don’t have an actual 1st pairing D combo is actually impressive.

    If the Oilers Power play were top 12 in the league, I would be far far more supportive of Eakins. On the PP, the Oilers have the ability to put a great team out there. I think that in terms of player quality, Edmonton is top ten for the PP. Being 21st and looking pathetic suggests coaching problems.

  93. Jasmine says:

    FastOil,
    Stop blaming Eakins and start blaming the goalie coach Chabot. Oilers fans need to stop running coaches out of town. If Eakins is run out of town like the previous 4 coaches in 5 years, no one will come to Edmonton to coach as they don’t want to be run out of town by Oilers fans in a year.

  94. icecastles says:

    G Money: Just to be clear, my manly parts went to b school (along with the rest of me). And my manly parts unequivocally demand: FIRE THE ASSISTANT COACHES!

    Your education shows in your posts, G Money – even the times I don’t agree with you, your take on things is always well worth considering. The snipe was not at all meant at you.

    I agree that the ass coaches need to go. The part I disagree with is where so many people have decided they dislike Eakins and will find any narrative they can and massage it to fit their perspective. When these sort of people are right, it is usually the result of the law of averages more than the result of sound reasoning: “If I shout and moan about everything, one of the things I say will eventually be true.”

    There are days that the Oilers fanbase and its bizarre obsession with sacrificial lambs feels like the million monkeys with a million typewriters trying to produce Shakespeare.

  95. LMHF#1 says:

    Jasmine:
    FastOil,
    Stop blaming Eakins and start blaming the goalie coach Chabot. Oilers fans need to stop running coaches out of town. If Eakins is run out of town like the previous 4 coaches in 5 years, no one will come to Edmonton to coach as they don’t want to be run out of town by Oilers fans in a year.

    Bull.

    There are several hundred guys in the pro ranks who would take any NHL job. Ever.

    Also, fans don’t run coaches out of town.

  96. nelson88 says:

    icecastles,

    No problem disagreeing or hard feelings. If you read your original response you will understand the challenge I didn’t want to take of the “let’s see who’s is bigger”. Successful is a very subjective term particularly when it comes to managing people/an organization but suffice it to say on many levels your assumption would be wrong.

    G Money: but did you go to a real B school like Queens…..;) For the record I did not but did attend an executive mba class from them which MacT likely also took regarding organizational change. Instructor made a comment that always stuck with me that one of the most important people to have on board and buy in to organizational change was the receptionist. Imho most mba stuff is horse manure but truer words have never been spoken.

  97. Jasmine says:

    WeirsBeard:
    I think it is obvious Eakins hates to lose. Nice to see in an organization that has accepted it for too many years, even during a rebuild. Haven’t seen it since we moved to a cap era.

    I don’t have any respect for Spec going back to his reporting on Arnott in the mid90s. Reminds me how much I like LTs writing. Focus on the positive, and if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all. Good life lesson

    Reporters that advocate fighting so much have clearly never been in a physical confrontation in their life and don’t understand the modern game nor the individuals that play it.

    I like the Thumper quote and that’s what idiot Spector should think before bashing an organization. Spector should be fired for this garbage. I’ve always hated Spector for his Oilers hatred.

  98. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    This was not a good presser by Eakins. I applaud the MSM for attempting (at least a little) to address an obvious truth. The Canucks, as exemplified by Kassian’s tactics, are simply bullying the Oilers into submission. Its a real area of addressable need for the Oilers and the planet knows it. Getting snarky on a ridiculously flawed stat like hits and pulling out the ‘targeting a player will get us in trouble’ does not instill confidence in me that Eakins really understands what its going to take to win in this league. I’ll give him a pass for being in a pressure cooker and not wanting to lay it all on the table in a public presser, but please be more straight forward. Your players are intimidated and peripheral. Its an issue. With a different mix and with maturity of the younger players, this will balance out. But please don’t dodge the fact Vancouver (and most every team) very clearly know how to shut the Oilers down and where the tender underbelly is with the Oilers. They will continue to intimidate. Nobody is suggesting gooning a player, but Kassian typifies a method of how the top tier teams control and contain the young Oilers. Own it and address it.

  99. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: Stauffer alluded to Eakins cleaning house in terms of his assistant coaches in the summer.

    He suggested that Eakins agreed to keep the old Asst. coaches around because he didn’t know the players.

    Know that he knows them he’ll put his own people in place.

    We wait.

    I wonder if this extends to goaltending coaches as well.

    MacTavish talked about adding a “European goalie guru” back in the summer, and if Dubnyk has any kind of rebound in Nashville then I think Chabot has to be looked at as well.

    I’d love to see Eakins get a chance to hire, from scratch, his own assistants. Then, provided MacTavish can give him a better roster, if he fails it is on him, rather than his being pilloried for working with this roster and the support staff he inherited.

  100. G Money says:

    icecastles: The snipe was not at all meant at you.

    I know, I took nothing personally, I was just trying to be funny. As I’m realizing, my attempts at humour are equally likely to be mistaken for something else. Damn me and my miswired circuits!!

    As for Eakins – agreed. I have a number of issues with what Eakins has done. I also like a number of the things he’s said and (appears to have) done. He’s not a monster or an idiot, neither does it appear he is a saint or a genius. It’s our job, nay our very duty, as blog posters to make black and white out of grey!

    nelson88: G Money: but did you go to a real B school like Queens…..;) For the record I did not but did attend an executive mba class from them which MacT likely also took regarding organizational change.

    Ha ha, no, I did the Exec MBA thing … but at least I do also have a “real” Masters degree, an MSc from Dalhousie! Sadly overeducated am I.

    Also – one of my former employees was a Queens MBA, and he moonlighted as an academic advisor for the Queens MBA program. And he happened to be MacT’s advisor. He (my former emp) found this to be greatly amusing because he’s a stark raving Flames fan. True story!

  101. Caramel Obvious says:

    book¡je: If the Oilers Power play were top 12 in the league, I would be far far more supportive of Eakins.On the PP, the Oilers have the ability to put a great team out there.I think that in terms of player quality, Edmonton is top ten for the PP.Being 21st and looking pathetic suggests coaching problems.

    The Oilers right now are 19th in the league in powerplay goals/60 with 6.4.
    The Ducks are 12th in the league with 7.11.

    The difference between these numbers is four goals. If the Oilers had scored five more goals they’d be eighth. That’s a pretty fine slice between good and terrible coaching.

    I often think the powerplay looks terrible too. However, that’s mostly because Justin Schultz often looks terrible and they can’t make a pass. How much of that is coaching?

    In the big scheme of things the powerplay hardly matters. The spread between teams is very small compared to the spread at even strength play. No coach should be hired or fired because of the powerplay.

  102. G Money says:

    book¡je: If the Oilers Power play were top 12 in the league, I would be far far more supportive of Eakins.On the PP, the Oilers have the ability to put a great team out there.I think that in terms of player quality, Edmonton is top ten for the PP.Being 21st and looking pathetic suggests coaching problems.

    OK, I’m going to challenge you on this one big time. First, at 21, we right now have a better PP than Det, LA, and Van. Interesting.

    Further, along with “we have elite talent” goes the narrative “we have the ability to ice a great PP” and as I posted earlier, I do not think the former is true (yet), and so by extension I don’t think the latter is true either.

    I think to claim that we can ice a great PP, we need three things on (at least) the first PP unit (feel free to disagree with me if you think I’m full of crap on this): an elite playmaker, an elite shooter, and an elite PP QB.

    It’s my opinion (more like observation unsupported by hard data) that if you have the three key elements, you can fill in the other two spots with replacement level types and still be elite. Again, feel free to disagree.

    On our #1 PP, I think RNH qualifies as an elite playmaker (not there yet at even strength, but a wizard on the PP), and Hall is an elite shooter. Yes? But who is our elite PP QB? Jultz? Ference? Belov? Marincin? Petry? Larsen? Do any of them qualify as a capable PP QB, let alone elite?

    At least last year we had Whitney, who was dog poo at EV but, like RNH, had certain wizard like qualities on the PP.

    On our second PP unit, the elite shooter is (or should be) Yak. But he’s struggling like crazy. Some of that is on the coaching, but some of it is also not. And who is the elite playmaker? Hemsky? He’s never been part of an elite PP unit, has he? Anyone else qualify? And who becomes the elite PP QB?

    Contrast that with Pittsburgh, tops in the league, throwing Crosby, Kunitz, Letang out there. Or how about Washington, #3, with Backstrom, Ovechkin, Green? How do we displace San Jose at #12, with Thornton, Marleau, Boyle?

    Answer: we don’t.

    Summary: until the Oilers get or develop an elite PP QB, a mid-grade PP is the best we should expect.

    21st? Right in the range. If the team didn’t have an allergy to shooting, 15th would be about right. I just don’t think any of the coaches are discouraging the Oilers from shooting though …

  103. gogliano says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    I love how people say that the Oilers should have hired Paul Maurice.

    You know who Paul Maurice thinks is an excellent coach?

    A:Dallas Eakins.

    Well if this an argument its a logical fallacy.

    Hiring Paul Maurice or thinking Paul Maurice is a great coach /= Paul Maurice is a good evaluator of other head coaches.

    The skill sets might overlap but they might not. Plenty of instances where the good practitioner is a terrible judge.

  104. Jasmine says:

    book¡je,
    Isn’t it the goalie coach that should be blamed and not Eakins?

  105. Jasmine says:

    LMHF#1,
    Yes they do. Scream “Fire during games is running coaches out of town.

  106. LMHF#1 says:

    Jasmine:
    LMHF#1,
    Yes they do. Scream “Fireduring games is running coaches out of town.

    They have absolutely no power in whether a coach stays or goes.

  107. icecastles says:

    Jasmine: Isn’t it the goalie coach that should be blamed and not Eakins?

    If I’ve learned anything from Oilers fans this year, it’s that there’s enough blame for EVERYONE!

    Fuck you, desk.

  108. icecastles says:

    icecastles: If I’ve learned anything from Oilers fans this year, it’s that there’s enough blame for EVERYONE! And EVERYTHING!

    Fuck you, desk.

  109. art vandelay says:

    The best part of today’s entry is that the Mickey Mouse Club coach was challenged by Mark Spector, and that’s grinding on the commentariat.
    Keep reading Ellipses Matheson for your “insider” NHL news, though. In tomorrow’s column, it’ll be something along the lines of, “MacT would have added Del Zotto for the Oilers struggling blueline, but Del Zotto’s aunt Mabel went to school with Barry Trotz’s second cousin Biff back in Newmarket, so there was a connection there … As for Klein, the Predators were reportedly (i.e. I read this on the AP wire this morning) asking for a second rounder but my source (i.e. Bruce MacGregor) tells me the Oilers hope to use that pick on (some random bumf*ck that nobody outside the Oilers organization has ever heard of).”
    Spector also spent his second-last show clamoring for the Oilers to toughen up in response to the Kassian stick-swing. And Oiler fan celebrated when his show got sh!t-canned because “he didn’t know hockey.” And now you’ll spent the next week crying that the Oilers didn’t exact payback on Kassian last night.
    Myopians.

  110. Caramel Obvious says:

    gogliano: Well if this an argument its a logical fallacy.

    Hiring Paul Maurice or thinking Paul Maurice is a great coach /= Paul Maurice is a good evaluator of other head coaches.

    The skill sets might overlap but they might not.Plenty of instances where the good practitioner is a terrible judge.

    It’s not a logical argument. The point is simple. Maurice knows more about coaching that we do. This is demonstrated by the fact that people here think he is a good coach (on the basis of three or four wins, but whatever).

    Maurice also knows Eakins more than we do.

    From this it isn’t necessary to draw a necessary logical conclusion to make a rational inference, that the person we acknowledge knows more than we do, and the person we acknowledge is closer to the situation than we are, might be in a better position to make judgements than we are.

    Reason and logic are not the same and between the two reason is always superior to logic (i.e. never trust an analytical philosopher–they are incapable of reason).

  111. icecastles says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    You are one of the gems on here, Caramel. Never stop posting.

  112. art vandelay says:

    Good gord almighty.
    When a clowntown panel host asks hopes-to-coach-again Paul Maurice what he thinks of a current NHL coach, he’s not going to say, “I think the Oilers made a huge mistake hiring a know-nothing greenhorn out of the TML organization.”
    He’s going to blow sunshine up everyboy’s @ss until he’s hired to coach an NHL team again, and can leave the media clowns fapping over their quiz show.
    The only people who can afford to level genuine criticism are the people who no longer have a vested interest.
    It’s why we don’t see any criticism of the Oilers’ absentee ownership. None of those pencil=necks wants to risk having his press pass ripped.
    The press conference where Eakins got pressed by Spector is an indication that the media senses Eakins is on thin ice. One guy wanders out to test whether it’s true. Everyone will be checking fan and Oiler org reaction. And if Spector doesn’t get cowed by Bill Tuele or Lowe or piled on by fans, another pencil-neck will jump on the bandwagon.

  113. Ben says:

    Stauffer thinks they’ll move 3 of their top 7 forwards:

    Nuge – Hall – Ebs – Gags – Perron – Hemsky – Yak

    Hemsky and Gagner are obvious.

    He later stated he wouldn’t “bet against” Nuge – Hall – Ebs – Jultz.

    That leaves Yak or Perron on the outside.

    (Also, this is all desperate, masturbatory conjecture)

  114. russ99 says:

    I dunno, Eakins certainly talks a good game. IMO he’s salvageable if he can adapt and move on from the rookie coaching mistakes, such as player motivation, power play management, game day decision making and bench demeanor.

    His choice of assistants would go a long way in proving that; he needs a few guys to help out in areas where he’s deficient.

    IMO, he’s shown enough to deserve another year with a better roster, then let’s see.

    It would be nice to see everyone come back from the Olympic break with a different attitude and demeanor (coaches included) and try to accomplish something the rest of the way.

  115. Caramel Obvious says:

    art vandelay,

    Maurice hired Eakins twice. May I draw an inference from this?

  116. FastOil says:

    Jasmine:
    FastOil,
    Stop blaming Eakins and start blaming the goalie coach Chabot. Oilers fans need to stop running coaches out of town. If Eakins is run out of town like the previous 4 coaches in 5 years, no one will come to Edmonton to coach as they don’t want to be run out of town by Oilers fans in a year.

    I meant Eakins was hired to change things, for the better.

  117. art vandelay says:

    You might draw an inference that in the real world, people hire their pals and/or people they’re familiar with despite incompetence or past performance. Happens all the time.
    It’s depressing to think about the people I’ve encountered where, after listening to their sob stories, I utter the sentence, “Then why did you hire the guy again?”
    Look at Mike Keenan, for instance. He dropped a nuclear device on the St. Louis Blues that took more than a decade to recover from. But that didn’t stop him from being hired to ruin more NHL franchises.
    Ken King oversaw readership drop at the Sun and the Herald, was considered a joke at PacPress, ventured into some kind of real estate deal, and then got the job of his dreams running the Flames into the ground.
    At least one TV network considers Matt Millen an expert on footall, despite his work as Lions GM.
    MacT got re-hired by the Oilers.

  118. Oiler Al says:

    Heads up: IF you have not read it yet, take a look… great write up by gww-rocks on Copper and Blue, a mock rebuttal to Katzs, letter to the fans the other day.

    Kind of sums up the Oiler story.. good read.

  119. G Money says:

    Hi Art!,

    So just to clarify the pearls you have cast before us:

    - Eakins is a bad coach. We know this because the Oilers are a bad team, and the coach is the only thing that determines the goodness or a badness of a team

    - Paul Maurice saying nice things about Eakins is just him blowing sunshine up our asses so he can coach again

    - Paul Maurice hiring Eakins in the past is just Maurice being a real-world fool and hiring his incompetent pal

    Did I miss anything?

  120. Lois Lowe says:

    G Money: I

    Ha ha, no, I did the Exec MBA thing … but at least I do also have a “real” Masters degree, an MSc from Dalhousie!Sadly overeducated am I.

    The combined number of degrees of this particular Oilogosphere community is staggering.

  121. G Money says:

    Lois Lowe: The combined number of degrees of this particular Oilogosphere community is staggering.

    No doubt! Posting at LT’s blog kinda reminds me of grad school, while posting at, say, ON tickles neural pathways otherwise inert since Jr High… (Garneau baby!)

  122. Lowetide says:

    Lois Lowe: The combined number of degrees of this particular Oilogosphere community is staggering.

    And yet we’re all Oiler fans!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!??!?!!?!?/!/?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

  123. WeirsBeard says:

    What was Eakins EyeGlow/60 in that press conference?

  124. Andy P says:

    art vandelay:
    You might draw an inference that in the real world, people hire their pals and/or people they’re familiar with despite incompetence or past performance. Happens all the time.
    It’s depressing to think about the people I’ve encountered where, after listening to their sob stories, I utter the sentence, “Then why did you hire the guy again?”
    Look at Mike Keenan, for instance. He dropped a nuclear device on the St. Louis Blues that took more than a decade to recover from. But that didn’t stop him from being hired to ruin more NHL franchises.
    Ken King oversaw readership drop at the Sun and the Herald, was considered a joke at PacPress, ventured into some kind of real estate deal, and then got the job of his dreams running the Flames into the ground.
    At least one TV network considers Matt Millen an expert on footall, despite his work as Lions GM.
    MacT got re-hired by the Oilers.

    Think where we would be today if they had replaced Tambo with MacT back then. But I suppose he didn’t have his MBA then either.

  125. Woodguy says:

    Caramel Obvious: The Oilers right now are 19th in the league in powerplay goals/60 with 6.4.
    The Ducks are 12th in the league with 7.11.

    The difference between these numbers is four goals.If the Oilers had scored five more goals they’d be eighth.That’s a pretty fine slice between good and terrible coaching.

    I often think the powerplay looks terrible too.However, that’s mostly because Justin Schultz often looks terrible and they can’t make a pass.How much of that is coaching?

    In the big scheme of things the powerplay hardly matters.The spread between teams is very small compared to the spread at even strength play.No coach should be hired or fired because of the powerplay.

    My big problem with the PP is shot generation.

    Elite PP’s generate 60/60

    For a brief shining moment this year the 5 forward set up was generating 60/60 and had a 50% conversion rate to boot (obv. would come down)

    Since they went back to a more conventional PP their shots/60 have dropped and are now at 48.9/60, which is 22nd in the NHL.

    This team can have an elite PP if they coach it correctly.

    He had it, but got scared with Yak covering a point and 1 shorty.

    He needs to sack up and go after it again.

  126. Woodguy says:

    art vandelay:
    Good gord almighty.
    When a clowntown panel host asks hopes-to-coach-again Paul Maurice what he thinks of a current NHL coach, he’s not going to say, “I think the Oilers made a huge mistake hiring a know-nothing greenhorn out of the TML organization.”
    He’s going to blow sunshine up everyboy’s @ss until he’s hired to coach an NHL team again, and can leave the media clowns fapping over their quiz show.
    The only people who can afford to level genuine criticism are the people who no longer have a vested interest.
    It’s why we don’t see any criticism of the Oilers’ absentee ownership. None of those pencil=necks wants to risk having his press pass ripped.
    The press conference where Eakins got pressed by Spector is an indication that the media senses Eakins is on thin ice. One guy wanders out to test whether it’s true. Everyone will be checking fan and Oiler org reaction. And if Spector doesn’t get cowed byBill Tuele or Lowe or piled on by fans, another pencil-neck will jump on the bandwagon.

    Did they park the zamboni behind Spector’s car?

  127. CrazyCoach says:

    Lois Lowe: The combined number of degrees of this particular Oilogosphere community is staggering.

    I’ll throw my M.S.S. on the pile.

  128. gogliano says:

    Caramel Obvious: It’s not a logical argument.The point is simple.Maurice knows more about coaching that we do.This is demonstrated by the fact that people here think he is a good coach (on the basis of three or four wins, but whatever).

    Maurice also knows Eakins more than we do.

    From this it isn’t necessary to draw a necessary logical conclusion to make a rational inference, that the person we acknowledge knows more than we do, and the person we acknowledge is closer to the situation than we are, might be in a better position to make judgements than we are.

    Reason and logic are not the same and between the two reason is always superior to logic (i.e. never trust an analytical philosopher–they are incapable of reason).

    Yeah, I’ve read my Plato and Aristotle and the people you’re reading that tell you what they mean too.

    It’s a bad reason however you want to slice it. You’ve assumed knowledge when you have no reason to assume it.

  129. CrazyCoach says:

    Lowetide: Lois Lowe: The combined number of degrees of this particular Oilogosphere community is staggering.
    And yet we’re all Oiler fans!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!??!?!!?!?/!/?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

    I’ve had to harken back to the sport sociology part of my degree and owe my obsession to the sports ethic that has now shifted to negative deviance.

  130. Woodguy says:

    art vandelay,

    Myopians.

    I have a pretty cool collection of Ancient Myopian pottery.

    Its nice, but my wife complains that its tough to make out the designs on the pottery unless you look really close up.

  131. Lowetide says:

    WeirsBeard:
    What was Eakins EyeGlow/60 in that press conference?

    100.2 Vader/60

  132. Lois Lowe says:

    Lowetide: And yet we’re all Oiler fans!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!??!?!!?!?/!/?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

    Stockholm syndrome is the only rational (or is it logical?) explanation. ;)

  133. Woodguy says:

    G Money: than Det, LA, and Van. Interesting.

    The 5 forward configuration was shooting at an elite 60/60 rate and killing it at a 50% rate, but Eakins chickened out over fear of Yak on the point and shorties.

    They’ve had 6 more shorties scored against since, but hasn’t made him break up the units he putting out there.

    The key is Yak.

    On the current configuration J.SHutlz, RNH and Eberle are the outside shooters and everyone knows that only RNH will actually shoot and his shot isn’t that hard.

    Because of this they overload the bottom and take away the cross crease pass, which is their bread an butter, so you end up with much less shot generation.

    With Yak on the right half wall pounding the puck every time it came near him, it drew the forwards out to cover him closer, which opens up the cross crease pass a lot more.

    Oiler PP is really easy to defend right now and NHL coaches are picking it apart.

    Overload the cross crease pass and don’t worry about anyone except RNH shooting outside the circle.

    If you look at the OIlers scoring rate 5v4 most of it was driven by the earlier success.

    Since the 5F was disbanded is bottom 10 in conversion rate too.

    That’s all on Eakins.

    If they had a shooter up top instead of J.Shultz, it would help open up the down low stuff again, but they keep running him out there.

  134. Woodguy says:

    art vandelay,


    The best part of today’s entry is that the Mickey Mouse Club coach was challenged by Mark Spector, and that’s grinding on the commentariat.

    Where it fails was that it was Goofy calling out Mickey.

    Not enough brain power to blow his nose.

    Froze like a deer in the headlights when Eakins asked him a question.

    Really got his show ran.

  135. Ben says:

    “Tom Gazzola” is by far my favourite Kristen Wiig character.

  136. Caramel Obvious says:

    Woodguy,

    I agree with most of this. I just don’t think it matters that much.

    I also think it is unfair to blaming Eakins for not going to a five forward formation permanently since it is to his credit that he tried it at all. No one else uses five forwards.

  137. Caramel Obvious says:

    I just watched the press conference. It was a thing of beauty. He absolutely crushed Spector and then mopped up with Gregor and Rishaug.

    Honestly, anyone who disagrees with what Eakins said forfeits their seat at the table. You have no business talking about hockey, here or anywhere else.

  138. CrazyCoach says:

    Caramel Obvious: Honestly, anyone who disagrees with what Eakins said forfeits their seat at the table. You have no business talking about hockey, here or anywhere else.

    And that’s the bottom line, cause Caramel said so!
    *Climbs rope, guzzles two beers*

    Caramel 3:16

  139. rickithebear says:

    nelson88:
    TSN now reporting Klein going back the other way so likely the latter.

    Why is it that people look at the complete point count of a player when saying offensive Dman.
    PP points give a false impression of what is a good Dman.12 pints on Pp is one of the worst 1st unit results.

    klien was 23rd in even points last year. tied with Chara, p. martin, Shattenkirk.
    he was tied for 45th last year with suter bouwmeester, Erhoff. leopold., Petry.
    he faces 2nd comp in on of the 20 toughest zone starts in league and is better than the league average for GA.

    He is an strong even play dman. to compliment the rangers top 4 for the next 3 years.
    his PKGA results make him the 2nd or 3rd option for the rangers.

    Rangers are better after this.
    nashville! they are a defence factory!

  140. VOR says:

    Last night, way off topic Woodguy and I were having a debate about my postion that saying it takes 4 to 5 years post draft for a defence to be 1st pairing. I don’t think our subsequent deabte advanced either of our arguments but it did raise an interesting point. I said that if you use the top 50 D (drafted D – which matters) listed in the ELO ratings at hockeyreference averaged about 1.85 years post draft to first pairing minutes. Woodguy challenged me to post my research and I will give you all a taste here in a few minutes. He then set his own terms for what is a first pairing D and it was like 4.4 years…

    The idea is to take the two guys one ach team who are “1st pairing” now and see when they first reached that level. This seems sound. So I did it for the entire league. The only difference between the approach that generate the results below and Woodguy’s is I used total minutes player and on each team took the two guys with the most total minutes played this year to date. This info I got from NHL.com. I suspect, but don’t know for sure, that Woodguy would also disagree with my central contention that 2004-2005 not be counted as a year in a players development since for every player who got a year to mature there is probably at least one who was ready earlier but had no NHL to play in. That said I am going to present the results not by team but by years post draft that they first played top pairing minutes as defined here:

    Played in fall following draft:
    Cam Fowler
    Drew Doughty
    Seth Jones
    Victor Hedman
    +1
    Tyler Myers
    Justin Faulk
    Jay Bouwmeester
    Jonas Brodin
    Eric Johnson
    Ryan Murray
    Marc-Edouard Vlasic
    Dion Phaneuf
    +2
    Oliver Ekman-Larsen
    Alex Pietrangelo
    Dan Hamhuis
    Erik Karlsson
    John Carlson
    Matts Niskanen
    Jack Johnson
    Travis Hamonic
    +3
    Zdeno Chara
    Duncan Keith
    Brent Seabrook
    Brooks Orpik
    Mike Greene
    PK Subban
    Braydon Coburn
    Tobias Enstrom
    +4
    Niklas Kronwall
    Kyle Quincey
    Slava Voynov
    Shea Weber
    Ryan McDonagh
    Kevin Bieksa
    Dennis Wideman
    Ryan Suter
    Jared Cowan
    Jan Hedja
    Tom Gilbert
    Andrei Markov
    Andrew McDonald
    +5
    Christian Ehrhoff
    Keith Yandle
    TJ Brodie
    Jeff Petry
    Matt Carle
    +6
    Dustin Byfuglien
    Justin Braun
    Alex Goligoski
    Marek Zidlicky
    Andrej Sekera
    +7
    Kimmo Timonen
    Brian Campbell
    +8
    Cody Franson
    Andrew Ference
    +9
    Johnny Boychuk

    There are four undrafted players in this set…
    Ben Lovejoy
    Dan Girardi
    Andy Greene
    Brenden Dillon

    I get that coming to 194 years for 56 players to become “1st pairing” an average of 3.464 so lets round to 3.5.

    50% are first pairing in 3 years or less but 4 is the most common number.

    If we assume that the guys who get early starts have an advantage in Hall of Fame selection as I believe earlier research showed then it is worth noting that the 28 fast players reached the NHL in an average of 1.71 years and the slow 28 took 5.21.

    Thus I return to my contention that it is wrong to say it takes 4 to 5 years for drafted D to be 1st pairing. It is a truism we all need to abandon.

  141. AZOIL says:

    I keep hearing Chicago needs a #2 C to play with Kane and is offering a D. I know Ganger isn’t awesome but maybe with Kane he can rekindle the good old days? Is Leddy or Kostka any good?

  142. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide: And yet we’re all Oiler fans!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!??!?!!?!?/!/?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!

    There are different kinds of smart.

    G Money:
    Hi Art!,
    So just to clarify the pearls you have cast before us:

    Did I miss anything?

    I thought his point was that Paul Maurice doesn’t know shit about football.

  143. Henry says:

    art vandelay:
    You might draw an inference that in the real world, people hire their pals and/or people they’re familiar with despite incompetence or past performance. Happens all the time.
    It’s depressing to think about the people I’ve encountered where, after listening to their sob stories, I utter the sentence, “Then why did you hire the guy again?”
    Look at Mike Keenan, for instance. He dropped a nuclear device on the St. Louis Blues that took more than a decade to recover from. But that didn’t stop him from being hired to ruin more NHL franchises.
    Ken King oversaw readership drop at the Sun and the Herald, was considered a joke at PacPress, ventured into some kind of real estate deal, and then got the job of his dreams running the Flames into the ground.
    At least one TV network considers Matt Millen an expert on footall, despite his work as Lions GM.
    MacT got re-hired by the Oilers.

    I want to agree, but I’m worried you might be an analytical philosopher.

  144. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    You, know, it’s funny.

    2 years ago now (well, almost now), at the deadline, I was on the road with some friends heading to S. Carolina for some escapism from the Winter.

    The whole trip I was agonizing about Hemsky. I really, really, really didn’t want him to get traded. I was actually in a hotel in W. Virginia on the return trip when I got the news he’d re-signed. I nearly flipped out. Yelled “Hemmer!” into our quiet, shared room of non-hockey enthusiasts and then explained how much I loved this Czech guy that plays hockey.

    At any rate, as the deadline gets closer, I can feel the same trepidation and hope creeping up on me. I can rationalize all manner of trades that will either match Hemsky’s value or at least help the team. But, I can’t make that hatred of losing him go away.

    Sign him MacT. The team he plays for is the better team every damn time.

  145. theres oil in virginia says:

    Hey Woodguy, I was just poking yesterday when I responded to your comment yesterday about Jack Johnson, but it got me thinking…isn’t Jack Johnson an upgrade over all of the current Oilers’ defencemen? What say you?

    EDIT: For clarity, I’m suggesting that without regard to contracts, or future potential, etc, wouldn’t Jack Johnson instantly be the Oilers’ best defenceman?

  146. eidy says:

    As much as I dislike Kassian, if I had to choose I would pick someone putting the boots to spector. He is in Damien Cox territory for me.

    I didn’t mind the game last night. What can you do when you don’t have the horses…. or the old horses start hearing dog whistles. When you don’t have a chance of playoffs it is hard to play for pride for 58 games. I expect that they will get a break over the Olympics and come back strong. Hopefully they play close to 500 over the last stretch, but the schedule is a murderer’s row.

    I am a MacT fan, but this summer was an opportunity missed for strengthening down the middle. Trying Hall was the plan and a plan he wasn’t keen on. I think he did an interview earlier where he said something to the effect of I thought they would add a centre, but as the summer went on it became obvious that I should start taking some draws. There was value and experience that was left on the table. Hopefully he can get some value from Gagner, anything for Schultz, holds onto Yak, and reups Hemsky. A very important 6 months and they can’t keep getting the wrong answer forever

    As for Lowe, I get the pound of flesh, but he seems to be inside an invisibility cloak. Swinging the axe at the highest head of the monster will fall short, but quite likely will take out Bucky, Smith, and probably Chabot. I think Dallas is feeling the heat and he is not hitching the wagon to that trio of assistants.

  147. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: 100.2 Vader/60

    I’m fairly certain that Eakins used a little force-crush on Spector’s ego in that PC. Didn’t even need any theatrical hand-gestures, but I could have sworn I heard Spector’s voice crack just a little at one point.

    One of the side effects of Eakins’ presence in Edmonton that I have enjoyed has been his unabashed willingness to make a reasonable and intelligent point and then stare down the local media when they challenge him on it.

    For all the grief that the media has given Kevin Lowe about his “I know a little something about what it takes to win” comment, the same sentiment has been paraphrased by some of the more gregarious and emphatic media members in Edmonton for years towards those who would disagree on some aspects of the game.

  148. fifthcartel says:

    Gene Principe ‏@GenePrincipe 3h
    “If we don’t get things going there will be changes and it could be me.” Dallas Eakins on his job

    I hope Eakins sticks but this reminds me of Claude Noel saying “We’re going to win here (Winnipeg) and I hope I’m here when we win”. Then a week or two later and he’s fired.

  149. VOR says:

    Here is my list of the 50 top drafted defencemen in ELO rankings at hockeyreference followed by the years it took for them to play 1st pairing minutes.+

    Nicklas Lidstrom – 2
    Denis Potvin – 0
    Larry Robinson – 3
    Paul Coffey – 1
    Scott Niedermayer – 1
    Chris Chelios – 3
    Al MacInnis – 2
    Brian Leetch – 2
    Larry Murphy – 0
    Brad Park – 3
    Scott Stevens – 0
    Phil Housley – 0
    Chris Pronger – 0
    Rob Blake – 3
    Sergei Zubov – 2
    Roman Hamrlik – 1
    Reed Larson – 1
    Gary Galley – 1
    Dave Babych – 0
    Doug Wilson – 0
    Zdeno Chara – 3
    Mark Howe – 0
    Sergei Gonchar – 3
    Mathieu Schneider 3
    Shea Weber – 4
    Andrei Markov – 4
    Eric Desjardins – 3
    Gary Suter – 1
    Teppo Numminen – 3
    Rod Langway – 2
    James Patrick – 4
    Kevin Hatcher – 3
    Sandis Ozolinsh – 2
    Bryan McCabe – 2
    Brian Campbell – 7
    Brad McCrimmon – 4
    Darryl Sydor – 4
    Ron Greschner – 0
    Kevin Lowe – 1
    Paul Reinhart – 0
    Kimmo Timonen – 7
    Mike Ramsay – 2
    Wade Redden – 1
    Calle Johansson – 2
    Phil Russel – 0
    Ed Jovanovski – 1
    Randy Carlyle – 2
    Al Iafrate – 1
    Fredrik Olausson – 1
    Ian Turnbull – 1

    I get that being 96 years for 50 players to reach first pairing and that gives 1.92 (I changed my criteria slightly so for example Ian Turnbull was 0 and is now a 1).

    So Woodguy, I have provided my evidence for thinking that the idea that it takes 4 to 5 years for a drafted D-man to play first pairing minutes is false. I’d say as the proponent of the theory the ball is now in your court.

  150. hoser313 says:

    Some different views on the power play I see.

    Personally, I liked the ‘two guys cycle and head to the far post’ that they used last year. Doesn’t require a big shot, just good passers. Worked well last year for Schultz and the big three. Not sure if Kreuger or actually Nelson deserves credit for that.

    Never mind league rankings, the power play percentage has fallen from 20.1% to 17.7% this year. Penalty kill went from 83.4% to 81.0%. Plus you have all the shorties. Special teams are clearly worse and it’s on the coaching staff (all of them) to fix this.

    I agree a poor power play isn’t a reason to fire a coach. Definitely should be though “an area that MacT might have a few questions for Dallas on” at the end of the year.

    Also, can we make Buffalo an honorary city in Alberta? They are definitely in this year’s Battle of Alberta.

  151. Snowman says:

    What are the chances MacT was watching NIkitin on his trip to Columbus? That would be a trade I can get behind. Try to steal him before UFA and then pay him before he hits the market?

    On the other hand… Jack Johnson. Please not Jack Johnson.

  152. G Money says:

    VOR,

    What is the source of your TOI data?

    I don’t have a vested position in your argument, but I’m not sure I buy your analysis. For example, you have Pronger as a “0″ in your list, meaning he played 1st pairing minutes as a rookie. This is inconsistent with what I remember about his career arc, where he showed flashes of brilliance but still struggled quite badly for the first few seasons, then was traded, and only came into his own in 96, or his fourth season.

    In other words – in your list, your inclusion of Pronger supports your POV, but my recollection of Pronger’s start would actually support WG’s POV.

    I tried to find TOI data to prove or disprove my memories of Pronger’s career, but I can find no TOI data prior to 1998.

  153. Rondo says:

    Snowman,

    Nikita TOI has been going down in the last few years

  154. VOR says:

    G Money,

    As I said I am using the simple standard of total time on ice. Looking at Hartford in 1993-1994 there is no other defenceman (because of injury mostly) who is likely to have played more total minutes than Chris Pronger. He played 81 games the next two were Brad McCrimmon at 34 playing 65 games and Adam Burt playing 63 games. It really is that simple on the surface. The more complicated answer is I run an algo. It is looking for disproportionate penalty minutes, games played, shots on net, goals, assists, points, and if available plus minus when there is no time on ice data. pronger leads D on Hartford in 1993-1994 in point share, and shots, is second in penalty minutes, 2nd in EV strength points, 3rd in pp scoring, first in games played. Taken in total the numbers say there isn’t much chance that Pronger wasn’t only playing first pairing minutes but 1D. Should he have been? I have no idea. Like you I remember him as being all chaos at that age. Yet he has the best plus minus of any D on the team with more than 10 games.

    Remember my point isn’t that these guys were already stud 1Ds merely that they were playing first pairing minutes in the year in question. Some were definitely studs right out of the gate. My God, Larry Murphy, yikes. Some were a few years away. But at these stages in their careers, when they went to top pairing minutes any of these guys would have been the undisputed best defencemen on the Oilers this year. Some still would be. Nik Lidstrom anyone? I am trying to refute the idea that you shouldn’t draft dmen because it takes them 4 to 5 years to be ready. That isn’t what either of my posts shows.

    I think it is up to those who hold firmly to the we can’t draft a stud D-man because by the time he is ready to play the forwards will be past it to prove that I am wrong about the real possibility our forwards have many great years ahead of them and that we could still, at this late date, draft a dman who would mature with the cluster. I notice I am the only one posting real verifiable data here. The ball is in the true believers court now.

    I mean no insult by this because my memory perfectly corresponds to yours but I am sure the challenge to my position is going to come from people picking away at individual data points. I’d much rather somebody actually post a dataset of relevance that contradicts mine. Then there is the chance we can all learn something, today for example I learned Chris Pronger was playing monster minutes when I remember him being rather a waste of space. Perhaps that was predictive of the greatness to come for CFP.

  155. Zelepukin says:

    Ben:
    Stauffer thinks they’ll move 3 of their top 7 forwards:

    Nuge – Hall – Ebs – Gags – Perron – Hemsky – Yak

    Hemsky and Gagner are obvious.

    He later stated he wouldn’t “bet against” Nuge – Hall – Ebs – Jultz.

    That leaves Yak or Perron on the outside.

    (Also, this is all desperate, masturbatory conjecture)

    Stauffer also tweeted, ” I don’t see a big goaltending move right now…” and then 3 MINUTES later they announced that they moved Dubs.

  156. fifthcartel says:

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer Jan 15
    A question for Oilers fans. How many games do u think the goaltenders have flat-out stolen for the hockey club this season?

    Bob tweeted that the morning before the moves. He’s hinted at this stuff before, tweeting about Perron/Oshie a couple weeks prior.

  157. godot10 says:

    Nashville is replacing Suter with Del Zotto. Weber, Jones, and Klein all are right-shooting RD, and Jones made Klein surplus. Nashville is beefing up their LD, and trying to add more blueline offense than Klein delivers.

    Klein going to NY might increase the chances that Girardi becomes available.

  158. art vandelay says:

    G Money:
    Hi Art!,

    So just to clarify the pearls you have cast before us:

    - Eakins is a bad coach.
    - … the Oilers are a bad team,
    - and the coach is the only thing that determines the goodness or a badness of a team
    - Paul Maurice saying nice things about Eakins is just him blowing sunshine up our asses so he can coach again
    - Paul Maurice hiring Eakins in the past is just Maurice being a real-world fool and hiring his incompetent pal

    I’m indifferent to it, definitely yes, I didn’t say anything of the kind, that’s exactly what I said, there’s a strong possibility this is true b/c it happens all the time.

    For all the fapping over the alleged college paperwork obtained by The Myopians, this shouldn’t be that hard to figure out. Unless those degrees belong to a bunch of under-worked LLBs and MBAs, In which case, it starts to make sense.

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