THE GAGNER SHOW

Craig MacTavish got into a shouting match with a fan the other night, I think that’s probably a good thing. It helps for the fans to feel like they’re being heard, and it’s important for management to feel the temperature of the fanbase, listen closely, and then disregard it. Seriously.

  • MacT: “Some of the teams I coached here were a lot more successful than this team has been so far this year, a lot closer to the playoffs at this point of the year than this team. But there was always a governor and a ceiling on those teams. There is no ceiling on this group. Quite clearly there is a good era ahead. It’s too long coming for most of us. But it’s coming.”

Article is here. I don’t really have anything to add, beyond there’s a big job to be done and the guy in charge of the journey has his head on straight and is seeing things clearly. A very good sign. The Oilers of Weight and Arnott and of Pronger-Peca-Pisani were thrill rides, but the Hall-Nuge-Yakupov era is going to shine like a diamond.

I badly want to quote more of the article, but won’t do it; I will suggest you wandering over there because there’s brilliant stuff about trades that need to be made and making certain that they get it right.

THE NEXT DEAL

oilers

 There’s only one way to win the Sam Gagner deal: acquire a better player. The Oilers can add secondary players through the roof to acquire a better Gagner, but if they do another Smid for secondary deal the fanbase may go off the rails. A lot of the rage about this season comes from:

  • raised expectations based on last season’s record
  • MacT’s verbal in summer, the guy can sell ice to the Eskimos
  • the noxious season we’re watching, rife with under-performances
  • inability to beat anyone in the Oilers division
  • trailing the Flames in the standings

I’m wondering if we can (as as group) make a list of suitable acquisitions in a Gagner deal. As mentioned above, I think we can project a bigger trade (as in Gagner plus Dillon Simpson and a 3rd rd pick) for what’s coming in. Here’s my quick list of possibles:

  • Center: Travis Zajac, New Jersey Devils; Mikael Backlund, Calgary Flames; Nazem Kadri, Toronto Maple Leafs; Artem Anisimov, Columbus Blue Jackets; Joakim Andersson, Detroit Red Wings; Adam Henrique, New Jersey Devils.

Any of those catch your eye? Some may not be available, others are extremely likely to be available. Some are more wingers than centers, and of course some might require things headed Edmonton’s way. How many did I miss?

oilers gagner

Gagner on the wing looks like a showcase from here, and playing with Hall and Nuge looks like a big push. I wonder how many scouts will be at tomorrow night’s game? General Managers? Interesting times.

THE BARONS

gernat ferguson1

The Barons play tonight, tomorrow and Saturday and this is a fun time to pay attention to the team if you’re a prospect guy. All of the kids appear to be getting a push, with Curtis Hamilton and Martin Gernat (in photo, by Rob Ferguson. All rights reserved) making the most of it recently.

Corey Potter is at practice today, looks like he’s going to be back tomorrow night. The club sent Brad Hunt to the minors this morning. Hunt played in 3 games during his first callup to the NHL, and he’s in the record books for all-time. That’s a big deal, and I’m happy for him.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

The Truman Show (1998) Blu-ray Screenshot

A busy day on the show, 10 this morning on TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Scott Cullen, TSN. Canada’s Olympic hockey team, Baseball’s Hall of Fame and the Leafs/Oilers struggles.
  • Guy Flaming, Pipeline Show. WHL trade deadline sees teams making major moves. We’ll talk to Guy about it.
  • Steve Dangle, Leafs Nation. The Leafs are losing their grip on the final playoff spot. Steve will give us the  pulse of Leafs Nation.
  • Rob Soria, Oil Drop. We’ll talk about the Baseball Hall of Fame and their exclusion of the great Tim Raines. Plus Oilers.

10-1260 via text, or @Lowetide_. It all starts at 10!

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148 Responses to "THE GAGNER SHOW"

  1. russ99 says:

    Kind of to continue the last thread, the only two guys I trust in this Wirtz/Ballard-like organization are MacTavish and MacGregor.

    But I really think we need to give MacT a few years. He’s made mistakes, but they were obviously rookie mistakes:

    1) Announcing to the world what the Oilers offseason plans were, blowing any leverage on deals/signings.

    2) Dumping a good coach in Krueger (via Skype no less), which I think was due to two factors:
    a) He didn’t want Tambellini’s guy, he wanted his own, which is his right as a new GM.
    b) Krueger wanted coaching help, which either shows a bit of weakness as a leader and/or
    signaled he was done with the Boys on the Bus assistants/nepotastic hires.

    He exacerbated this with a gut/impulse hire of Eakins with zero hiring process, and either pushed Smith/Bucky on Eakins as a condition of the hire or wouldn’t let Eakins dump them.

    3) Being indecisive on Gagner until he had to cave at the last minute. Should have dealt him if he didn’t agree to team-friendly terms.

    I’m not critical on the Ference signing, as that’s what it will take to get top FAs to sign here, until we’re a real contending team in the new building.

    MacT’s primary responsibility is roster moves, and I think he’s done a good, but not excellent job with that. And it takes a number of years to rebuild a roster at least 2/3rds from scratch, so I’m hopeful he’s learned from his mistakes this summer and does a better job moving forward.

  2. Hammers says:

    For me I would look higher . Say Gags & Perron for Spezza & 2nd or 3rd . Would hate to loose either in many ways but your list doesn’t shoot high enough for me . Remember you have to give to get . I would love to see a seasoned center to take pressure from RNH . MAYBE YOU ALSO THROW IN OUR 1ST AND PETRY AND TRY FOR MALKIN BUT YOU GET THE IDEA .

  3. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Glad Hunt got sent down. Thrilled he punched his card. Who knows, maybe he comes back up and has some success. But, he’s wasn’t near good enough to stay. Should have been sent down after game one or two.

    Belov is the obvious choice to go back in. He’s struggled, sure. He’s probably needed a “re-set.” Sure. He’s probably not a great top 4 option on this team now, sure. But, man, he’s good enough for this team, better than 15 (who is no doubt being showcased himself), and needs to play out the rest of the season. If only for evaluation purposes for a contract.

    After that and assuming Potter and Larsen are still off-center, Fedun is the obvious choice to come up, if someone gets injured or if they want Marincin to pull a Costanza and leave the party on a high note.

  4. gameofstyle says:

    LT, huge fan. Your posts help me get through the gloomy London winter. What in your mind would Gagner have to do on the wing over the next 8 weeks to remain an Oiler? Is there anything?

    IMO even as a winger I don’t think you can keep both him and Gagner. One has to go to rebalance the top 6. I would not even think of moving Yakcity yet.

    Also, can anyone give me a reasonable explanation why Hunt was in over Belov against STL?

  5. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    This line from MacT:

    “We know what we don’t have,” he said. He could have added that just about every registered voter and minor hockey player from pee wee up knows what they don’t have.

    “We need big, strong, heavy guys who can give us what we don’t have now.”

    Would appear to rule out a few of your candidates for a Gagner trade LT (I’m looking at you Kadri). Also, the range of player should be expanded considering Dreger saying they were looking for any of “top 6 forward, top 4 D or starting G”

    Now, the obvious thing is, if Gagner goes you need to replace him (I see they have Arco at 2C tonight, so that can be a stopgap) at some point, but that doesn’t mean the Gagner trade needs to involve his replacement, just that he needs to be replaced at some point.

    Open question for the crowd: does Gagner showcase better on the wing or at Center? and is it possible the Oilers are playing him on the wing at the request of an interested party?

  6. thejonrmcleod says:

    gameofstyle,

    I’m confused.

  7. OF17 says:

    I wonder if Brandon Sutter might be a good target for a Gagner trade. Pittsburgh is looking for a winger to go with Crosby-Kunitz now that Dupuis is down, and Gagner would flourish playing a secondary role with that kind of talent. Sutter would look great on the second line for us with Perron and Yakupov. Sure, he’s a downgrade in talent, but he’s either scored or been on pace for 30 points playing a depth role his whole career. Put him in the top-6, and if he scores 40 points while providing size and defense, you have to take it.

    I also wonder if Gagner + Klefbom + could pull in a Dustin Byfuglien. Winnipeg is looking for offensive talent, particularly a RW, and they’re thin on defense prospects, particularly LHD. Eakins might eat Byfuglien alive, but at least he’d be a big upgrade on the ice.

    Other than that, I’d love to see Hjalmarsson here, maybe as a Gagner return, but I’m not sure that’d happen.

  8. Pouzar says:

    Arco on the 2nd Line…bout bleepin time.

    These lines are really really intriguing but alas probably won’t last longer than a period or 2.

  9. gameofstyle says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    Apologies, I meant to say you can’t keep both Gagner and Eberle on the wing in your top 6. I just do not see how Gagner is on the team next season.

  10. GordM says:

    I think Florida is a potential trade partner. They are 3rd lowest in NHL scoring…could a Gagner for Kulikov package be worked on (add on either side as needed)?

    I don’t think we’ll have any luck trading with teams in the playoff mix, they will mostly want to add for prospects/picks.

  11. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Crap.

    I just realized they put 94 at center again. Just call up Lander already.

  12. bookje says:

    Wait, did you say Gagner+Simpson+a 3rd round draft pick.

    That sounds to me like you are boldly making a prediction of a 3 for 1 trade. Interesting idea, I haven’t heard that mentioned around here before. It could just work.

  13. thejonrmcleod says:

    gameofstyle,

    Yeah, I thought that’s what you meant. But don’t mind me. I don’t make many good contributions to this comments section–usually just stupid comments about other people’s comments.

  14. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/blogpost.htm?id=24919&cmpid=blogheadlines

    Ok… fuck.

    They are putting 85 with 15!!!! No, you bastards. No! Bad Dog!!!!

    Send him out now, before he looks horrible because he is skating with 15. Besides it looks like 44 is ready to go.

    Glad to see Belov back in and with 2 though. That pair has worked well in the past.

    Other interesting note… what the hell Joensuu? is he injured again? he apparently isn’t skating today.

  15. PaperKurtRussell says:

    Lots of good stuff in today’s post! I’m as impatient as the next guy, but not sure we need to trade Gags today as our season is pooched no matter what. How many teams are going to give us a roster player this time of year that meets our needs? A serious playoff team may view Gags as risky given his size and play without the puck, while handing over to MacT a gritty player with skill and size that we want. Might be more deals out there leading up to the draft.

    Also LT, any thoughts what calibre of player we could get for our first?

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Anyone prone to dizziness should avoid this video, otherwise… it’s pretty interesting:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=532481

  17. gameofstyle says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    Ha, I like that angle. I might have to adopt it myself.

  18. bookje says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Anyone prone to dizziness should avoid this video, otherwise… it’s pretty interesting:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=532481

    I wonder if in 10 years time we will be able to watch NHL games from the player perspective through mini camera’s in their helmets.

  19. Ryan says:

    gameofstyle:
    thejonrmcleod,

    Apologies, I meant to say you can’t keep both Gagner and Eberle on the wing in your top 6. I just do not see how Gagner is on the team next season.

    Indeed, especially if you move Gagner to the wing, then there’s one hell of a logjam of small top 6/9 wingers.

    Really, if you do the math, the Oilers already have Hall, Perron, Eberle, and Yakupov.

    Hall is a Hall. You obviously can’t trade him, period.

    Perron can play either side which is nice.

    Eberle is highest value on the trade market.

    One and possibly two of Perron, Eberle or Yakupov has to go if this team is serious about getting (a) bigger body(ies) in the top six.

  20. gameofstyle says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    If the entire point of continuing to play Schultz senior is to showcase him for the best return at the deadline, then is pairing him up with 85 a sign of who has been our best D man the past few games? I’ve seen some good things from 85 since he has been here. He has looked WAY better than 15.

  21. thejonrmcleod says:

    Someone mentioned the Panthers as a team to target for a Gagner trade. Is Kulikov in Tallon’s doghouse? I’m guessing the Oilers might also be interested in Upshall and/or Matthias. But I think Gagner has more value than those two.

  22. Ryan says:

    MacT: “Some of the teams I coached here were a lot more successful than this team has been so far this year, a lot closer to the playoffs at this point of the year than this team. But there was always a governor and a ceiling on those teams. There is no ceiling on this group. Quite clearly there is a good era ahead. It’s too long coming for most of us. But it’s coming.”

    You could almost interpret this as a knock on Eakins.

  23. Ducey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Joensuu has a back problem, doesn’t he? Those can be pretty wonky.

  24. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    gameofstyle:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    If the entire point of continuing to play Schultz senior is to showcase him for the best return at the deadline, then is pairing him up with 85 a sign of who has been our best D man the past few games? I’ve seen some good things from 85 since he has been here. He has looked WAY better than 15.

    85 has looked great… but he’s been playing mostly with 2 and 77 on the 2nd pairing. That’s a soft landing for the kid and in such a short stretch it is really hard to know who is zooming who.

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=317&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

    15, on the other hand is, so far this season, a guaranteed boat anchor:

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=317&withagainst=true&season=2013-14&sit=5v5

    Larsen is the only player on the team in which his numbers are worse away from 15: through 14.48 5x5TOI 54.8% with and 44.7% without.

    Everyone else discovers Hades when they play with 15.

    Putting him with 85 is just going to drag 85 down and is going to leave a bad taste in everyone’s mouth for 85. Always put young players in a position to succeed. This isn’t it.

    Asking 85 to carry 15 is not putting him in a position to succeed. It is asking him to play veteran presence in his 9th NHL game. Bad move.

    I’d put 15 with 44 or 77.

    21-19
    85-2
    15-44/77

  25. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    thejonrmcleod:
    Someone mentioned the Panthers as a team to target for a Gagner trade. Is Kulikov in Tallon’s doghouse? I’m guessing the Oilers might also be interested in Upshall and/or Matthias. But I think Gagner has more value than those two.

    Back in Nov. LeBrun suggested everyone (minus a few kid holds: Barkov, Huberdeau) was for sale…

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/27654/dineen-firing-first-of-many-moves-in-florida

    and Versteeg got traded and FLA held back cap hit to make the deal. They were desperate to move players, not sure if that is still the case.

  26. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Joensuu has a back problem, doesn’t he?Those can be pretty wonky.

    That’s probably it. But he was back for a few games and then HSed. There’s been no mention of his health recently. maybe we’ll hear more today.

  27. sliderule says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    If 85 can look good with 15 we have the next Chara.

  28. Dee Dee says:

    Best line of the article was Jones telling the fans to keep drinking more Kool-Aid.

  29. Ryan says:

    OF17,

    There’s a lot of chatter about Winnipeg wanting to dump Byfuglien. I’d certainly be more than interested in Byfuglien depending on the price.

    The Oilers are apparently looking for prospects rather than picks for their rentals — Hemsky, Jones, and Schultz, and Bryz. (according to Matheson)

  30. OilClog says:

    I don’t think putting 85 with 15 is that bad actually.. If 85 clearly outplays 15, that’s one giant big step towards 15 being put out of its misery. That’s progress!

  31. HiddenDarts says:

    In my role as GM of the Edmonton Oilers in NHL 14, I just traded Nick Schultz for Christian Ehrhoff.

    The Sabres said, “Whoa? Really? Are you sure you know what you’re doing? Ok, definitely. Buffalo takes this trade.”

    Ah, if only reality was designed by Electronic Arts as well.

  32. Woodguy says:

    At first glance I thought it read “The Gong Show”

    True Story.

  33. Henry says:

    “We are quite obviously flawed. Those things are going to be rectified in short order. There’s a lot of really positive signs we’ve seen in development seen this year.”

    That was a heck of an interview by Jones. I love that MacT is willing to open up significantly about the team. I just hope those rectification promises don’t come back to bite him.

    It may be improper of me to rant about one of my pet peeves in this forum, but Jones’ article twice refers to having fans sip the Kool-Aid. This metaphor is used so commonly that it is an unfortunate part of Canadian/American vernacular, but it is disgusting. A lot of blog posters and all of my students weren’t born in 1978 and may not even know that they are referring to one of the most tragic mass murders of all time. I was 10 and TV images from that winter day were pretty much etched on my retina. Jones (and Brownlee) were around and probably journalists at the time and should know better.

  34. rich says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Crap.

    I just realized they put 94 at center again. Just call up Lander already.

    This. Putting 94 at center is one of Krueger’s experiments that should not be repeated. Didn’t we already learn this?

  35. gameofstyle says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Good points and I agree. The problem is 15 should be sitting but the optics of that before a looming trade deadline are terrible. Sadly he will be dragging someone down and we can look forward to him banging it off the glass and back to the other team almost every shift.

  36. TheOtherJohn says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: “We need big, strong, heavy guys who can give us what we don’t have now.”

    MacT had better not be trading for Coke Machines. I have learned that they are not wanted here. Skill dammit, …..skill!

  37. barry.moore23 says:

    Speaking of Florida – aren’t they in kind of the same situation as we are ?? I remember listening to Dale Tallon on the Hawks radio broadcsasts and then he was Panthers GM. He may have had prior experience in that position, I don’t know and don’t really care that much :) . Peace guys …..

  38. Woodguy says:

    Gagner with 93-4 could also be a showcase for MacT.

    If he fits well MacT might feel better trading 14, who fetches much more on the trade market, yet might not be much different than 89 in that spot.

  39. Woodguy says:

    Given that 89′s last 5 games have been his best stretch this year, there is no question him on RW is a showcase.

  40. Woodguy says:

    gameofstyle:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Good points and I agree. The problem is 15 should be sitting but the optics of that before a looming trade deadline are terrible. Sadly he will be dragging someone down and we can look forward to him banging it off the glass and back to the other team almost every shift.

    Agreed.

    They can trade Nick fast enough to help thw win column.

    Belov and Marincin are better 2/3 LD than 15.

    Stu liked him in his draft year and Yz had nice words to say too.

  41. BrazilianOil says:

    Gagner + Klefbom x C. Lazar + Zibanejad ?

  42. Ducey says:

    I may be in the minority but I’d prefer the Oilers trade Gagner for a prospect (or two) who has not established himself in the NHL. Jimmy Carson for Adam Graves and Joe Murphy should be the model. By not trading for an established player, the Oilers have a better chance for higher upside and the player is likely to be controllable for longer.

    Maybe Samwise to the Rangers for JT Miller and Cam Talbot? Miller went 15th overall in 2011, is 6’1′ 200 lbs, has good speed and plays a two way game with some grit. He is playing wing for the Rangers but is a center and is a good faceoff guy. (at least this is what I can figure out from the Interwebs – my scouting staff was let go last year).

    Talbot wasn’t drafted. He is goalie leading the Ranger in save % at .938 in 14 games. He is 6’3″ and put up a .918 save % in the AHL last year.

    Searching around the various teams prospect lists, I have some sympathy for the suggestion that it is hard to get a big, young, second line center. There are not really any out there you could see a team giving up without a big overpayment.

  43. jake70 says:

    “We are quite obviously flawed. Those things are going to be rectified in short order. ”

    Not so sure it was a good idea to use the words “short order”. That’s a “bold moves” 2.0

    I also think that dressing room/bar area walk is unreasonable, it’s great for fans but I am very surprised they still have that set up.

  44. RexLibris says:

    So Gagner is moving to the wing.

    Was it Dreger or Lebrun who mentioned that the Penguins have been looking for a winger?

    Something else I had heard about Crosby lobbying for the Pens to acquire Gagner?

    Oilers play the Penguins next, correct?

  45. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Wonder if we’ll see movement out of BUF now:

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=699800&navid=nhl:topheads

  46. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris:
    So Gagner is moving to the wing.

    Was it Dreger or Lebrun who mentioned that the Penguins have been looking for a winger?

    Something else I had heard about Crosby lobbying for the Pens to acquire Gagner?

    Oilers play the Penguins next, correct?

    Lavoie.

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2014/01/blues-at-oilers-g46-13-14.html

  47. bookje says:

    Woodguy:
    Given that 89′s last 5 games have been his best stretch this year, there is no question him on RW is a showcase.

    Maybe everyone involved (including Gagner) realize that its a better fit for him and they keep him there?

  48. bookje says:

    rich: This.Putting 94 at center is one of Krueger’s experiments that should not be repeated.Didn’t we already learn this?

    Eakins wasn’t here last year, how could he possibly know this.

  49. fuzzy muppet says:

    i feel for Yakupov. His play is finally trending upwards, thanks in part to some chemistry found with 89.

    SO what do they do? Split them up and move Yakupov to his off wing.

    The shit-show continues

  50. hankster says:

    LT, a very intelligent discussion on the MacT yesterday with several contributors who have experience managing a group or a large organization.

    Gagner for Horcoff or Smid LOL.

    Seriously what do people here think Gagner is worth ? 2nd line, 3rd, 4th ? or perhaps contract buyout and playing in Europe next year ? While playing top line minutes in years past, he managed to put up a few points while not defending at all. I’d keep him if the NHL was just a pickup non contact hockey. Other teams are not blind nor stupid, so at best, he will return a marginal 3rd line guy.

    None of the players LT mentioned would be a fair trade straightup, so the oilers would need to add significant value going the other way to make this happen. Its a tough trading market out there with very few trades this year and likely to maintain course.

    The 3 players that need to be traded immediately to improve the oilers balance up front are :
    Gagner, hemsky and Eberle in that order.

  51. bookje says:

    Woodguy:
    At first glance I thought it read “The Gong Show”

    True Story.

    What do you have against Sam Gonger?

  52. Jimmy says:

    Saw an Elliot F. tweet that Byfuglien(?) is practicing at forward today in Winnipeg. Maybe MacT wants to see Buff play at F while the Jets want to look at Gags on the wing…I like making up stories

  53. Numenius says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    i feel for Yakupov. His play is finally trending upwards, thanks in part to some chemistry found with 89.

    SO what do they do?Split them up and move Yakupov to his off wing.

    The shit-show continues

    I don’t think there’s a problem having Yak with Arcobello instead of Gagner, but taking Perron off that line?

    That’s what doesn’t make sense.

  54. rickithebear says:

    Since December the oilers have been:

    19GM 6W-10L-3OTL
    whenyou look at home records and the teams they faced 10 game stretches.

    our ten losses:

    5GM
    2@ANA,18-0-2
    2 VS STL, 18-2-2 in last 22gm
    @SJS, 15-1-3
    we were dealing with a combined record of 51-3-7

    3 against
    @VCR 11-6-5 HM BtoB
    @LA 14-5-3
    @Col 16-6-2
    A combined Record of 41-17-10

    8 losses to 92-20-17
    the league average would be 1pt in these 8 games.

  55. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    fuzzy muppet: move Yakupov to his off wing.

    I think it was Parkatti yesterday (?) mentioned that Yak has been there since the benching and has been trending up in the corgis (and obviously the boxcars as well).

    Remember his “off wing” is his actual “correct” wing (in traditional terms).

    Numenius: I don’t think there’s a problem having Yak with Arcobello instead of Gagner, but taking Perron off that line?
    That’s what doesn’t make sense.

    I think it has more to do with who Eakins trusts to play in different situations. He refers to Arco and Perron as “bobblehead players” ie., they do whatever they are told and do it well.

    He feels more comfortable moving Perron around and probably wants Yak to find a stable offensive home.

  56. TeeVee says:

    Numenius: I don’t think there’s a problem having Yak with Arcobello instead of Gagner, but taking Perron off that line?

    That’s what doesn’t make sense.

    Leaving Perron on the line would mean Eberle goes to the 3rd.

    Hard decisions.

  57. FastOil says:

    Henry:
    “We are quite obviously flawed. Those things are going to be rectified in short order. There’s a lot of really positive signs we’ve seen in development seen this year.”

    That was a heck of an interview by Jones.I love that MacT is willing to open up significantly about the team.I just hope those rectification promises don’t come back to bite him.

    It may be improper of me to rant about one of my pet peeves in this forum, but Jones’ article twice refers to having fans sip the Kool-Aid.This metaphor is used so commonly that it is an unfortunate part of Canadian/American vernacular, but it is disgusting.A lot of blog posters and all of my students weren’t born in 1978 and may not even know that they are referring to one of the most tragic mass murders of all time.I was 10 and TV images from that winter day were pretty much etched on my retina.Jones (and Brownlee) were around and probably journalists at the time and should know better.

    Unfortunately quality writing and sports journalism don’t intersect often enough.

    I’ll throw in my sports journalist / talking head pet peeve. It’s when they use the phrase “can’t get untracked” to mean can’t move out of a slump, by player or team. It’s backward.

    “Untracked” is the negative, being off or out of the track is bad. “On track” is the positive, as in “can’t get back on track”. I haven’t found any instance where untracked is correctly used as a positive outcome.

  58. Pouzar says:

    rich: This.Putting 94 at center is one of Krueger’s experiments that should not be repeated.Didn’t we already learn this?

    I read this as “Gagner” to wing will be short lived so no need to bring him up.

  59. WeirsBeard says:

    bookje: What do you have against Sam Gonger?

    I believe it is pronounced Bam Gongway. The j is silent.

  60. Thiru says:

    Gagner at RW might not be just a showcase; if he plays well there, it could spell end of days for Hemsky (again).

  61. G Money says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    i feel for Yakupov. His play is finally trending upwards, thanks in part to some chemistry found with 89.

    SO what do they do?Split them up and move Yakupov to his off wing.

    The shit-show continues

    As a #1 pick, the Oilers need Yak to be the guy who drives the bus, pushes the river, [insert directional transportation metaphor here], on his line. Now that he’s found some of his game, it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing to see if he can sustain it without 89.

    That’s doubly true if the rumours about Crosby wanting Gagner on his wing are true, in which case this may indeed be a showcase specifically for the Pengoins.

    Say, what’s the over-under on small Welsh herding dogs vs. flightless water fowl?

  62. Colieo87 says:

    Wow talk about musical chairs on the wings. O well we’re stacked wings and need some grit and arco/Penner style Centre. Hopefully it’s gets adjusted in the off season.

  63. FastOil says:

    “The Oilers would consider trading Sam Gagner. Oh, wow. — *Yawn* — Let me file this in the same folder as “Oilers would trade Yakupov” and Oilers would trade Hemsky,” etc. etc. Way to keep all your players on pins and needles. Bet it’s been fun to be an Oiler the last handful of Januarys.”

    Interesting non-partisan opinion ( J Bourne – Backhand Shelf). I too wish the public airing of what should be internal discussions would stop. I see this as part of the difficulty acquiring UFAs – to me it seems quite unprofessional, it might to players as well who likely don’t enjoy (or their families) perpetual trade rumours and getting sullied in the MSM.

  64. Melman says:

    Woodguy:
    Gagner with 93-4 could also be a showcase for MacT.

    If he fits well MacT might feel better trading 14, who fetches much more on the trade market, yet might not be much different than 89 in that spot.

    This makes a ton of sense although it will be awful to watch Ebs score 30+ for the next 10 years in a different jersey. How upset will Ernie be if Bert gets traded?

  65. OF17 says:

    I wonder what a Kulikov + Kopecky + Matthias package would cost. Gagner + Klefbom + ?

  66. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    What’s interesting here:

    http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/

    Sutter, Maata, Jarry?

    I’m not seeing a lot here.

  67. OF17 says:

    Numenius,

    It does give the team 3 strong lines though. Perron-Gordon-Hemsky can play the toughest minutes and still be an offensive threat, Hall-Nuge-Gagner should be able to do well against secondary opposition, and Yakupov-Arcobello-Eberle should be able to kill the soft parade. I like the lines actually.

  68. OF17 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Sutter and Martin would look good.

  69. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Thanks, I knew I’d read it somewhere sketchy.
    ;)

  70. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    OF17:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Sutter and Martin would look good.

    Martin is on LTIR and is their 2nd best D. They can’t move him unless they push Maata way too hard.

    They are actually pretty damn thin in the cupboards. Lots of top talent… thin middle talent and little coming up from underneath.

    Lots of interesting D… we don’t need that though.

    Bennett??

  71. russ99 says:

    jake70:
    “We are quite obviously flawed. Those things are going to be rectified in short order. ”

    Not so sure it was a good idea to use the words “short order”. That’s a “bold moves” 2.0

    I also think that dressing room/bar area walk is unreasonable, it’s great for fans but I am very surprised they still have that set up.

    I take that quote along with “We have to get the size. And it’s coming. Those guys are developing now.”” as meaning all the coke machines they recently reach-drafted are starting to filter through the system, which IMHO is flawed logic.

    We need pros, not big kids with marginal skill at the NHL level. What’s next, a return to younger players like Jacques and Stone on the top two lines? That’s going backward, not forward.

    Gagner to RW was a bad idea last year and it’s a bad idea now.

    All it will do is lessen his trade value.

  72. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    What’s interesting here:

    http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/

    Sutter, Maata, Jarry?

    I’m not seeing a lot here.

    Yeah I had a look too and the currency the Penguins are reputed to be offering is something the OIlers have in spades: defensive prospects.

    To my mind, Cammalleri to the Penguins makes more sense for the two teams.

    I’m still of the mind that Gagner should be moved for an under 28-year old defenseman. Byfuglien is interesting, I’ve mentioned Gardiner. The Penguins don’t have an expendable blueliner in that range.

  73. HugThePost says:

    Trading Gagner would be a plus for the team—we are going nowhere with him as 2C, but 87 will make him into Olympic material.

    We are going nowhere until the rot on Kingsway Ave is cleaned up. One day, the truth will come out, and it will read a little like this:

    http://deadspin.com/report-the-dolphins-are-a-dysfunctional-mess-behind-th-1497770963

    No organization including professional sports ones gets anywhere with toxic things like nepotism, emotion-based management/ decision-making and disregard for the paying customer. But the Oilers seem to think they can do it.

    Godspeed MacT, if you can pull it off, it will be a miracle of miracles.

  74. Ducey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    What’s interesting here:

    http://www.capgeek.com/penguins/

    Sutter, Maata, Jarry?

    I’m not seeing a lot here.

    Oskar Sundqvist? He is a 6’3″ Swedish Center picked in 2012 in the 3rd round. HF says this about him:

    “A tall, rangy forward with a nasty on-ice disposition and offensive talent to spare, Oskar Sundqvist brings a unique package of skills to the center position. Having played in the lower levels of Swedish junior hockey, Sundqvist’s upside is largely still unknown. However, given his size, skating, and offensive skills, he could one day develop into an effective two-way center.”

    Not sure when that was written. He sounds a ways off but played in the World Junior’s and the Oilers would have seen him recently.

    Add him to Sutter and that might shore up the C position nicely. I don’t know why the Pens would trade Sutter, though. He is what they need in the playoffs.

  75. gcw_rocks says:

    I don’t get the faith in MacT. The Oilers entered the off season with glaring holes at 1st D, 2nd D, 6th D (assuming Petry, Smid, and Schultz Jr represent a good 3, 4, 5), 1st/2nd C (with RNH injuried, Gagner with questionable defence), 3rd LW, 3rd C, and the entire fourth line.

    He filled the 1, 2 and 6th with Belov (unproven, no NHL experience), Ference (a 3rd/4th D), Larsen (unproven), Grebs (out of league coming off a bad year in the KHL).

    He gambled on Arcobello (unproven) for the 1st/2nd C and didn’t have any other reasonable competition for him.

    He did a good job on the Gordon signing to replace Horcoff.

    He brought in Joensuu (unproven, poor track record) to fill the 3LW.

    He brought in Acton (unproven, poor track record), R Hamilton (unproven, poor track record), SMac (can’t play hockey), Gazdic (can’t play hockey), and Jones (cheats for offense) for the 4th line.

    Now he is in shouting matches with fans. A tier one fan, it would seem? Yes, that’s a smart thing to do.

    I can’t see trading Gagner for another forward. I think he goes for a defender. In fact, with few exceptions it would be a mistake to trade him for anything other than a defender.

  76. russ99 says:

    gcw_rocks,

    The problem there is there were no #1 and #2 defensemen on the FA market this year, and teams don’t like to trade those guys.

    Acton and Hamilton were obviously Eakins guys.

    I agree that Grebeshkov wasn’t the best decision considering some of the late-summer FAs available out there, but MacT’s not a miracle worker. He’s going to need a few summers to really re-work the roster.

    We should have signed and still need two shutdown wingers to play with Gordon.

  77. Ryan says:

    No pressure Samwise…

    If you play well tonight, you could be headed to the Stanley Cup Finals….

    this year.

    Oh yeah and did I mention, that includes playing on the RW with the best player on the planet.

    Like I said, no pressure.

  78. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey,

    Interesting player. Pronman:

    ———

    5. Oskar Sundqvist, Center
    2011-12 Ranking: Unranked
    Date of birth: 03/23/1994
    Age: 19
    Height: 6’3”
    Weight: 196
    Shoots: Right
    Statistics: 38 GP, 17 G, 33 P (Skelleftea, J20 SuperElit)
    Acquired: Third round, 81st overall in 2012 by Pittsburgh

    Year in Review: Even though he did not get much time in the SHL, Sundqvist was pretty impressive in Sweden, with good showings in international play and in the junior league.

    The Good: Sundqvist is a big, strong, skilled center. He has the frame to protect pucks effectively, and he also has physical game value when he drives the net and gets involved in the high percentage areas. He has above-average puck skills, and he can make plays in tight and in open ice to create offense. Sundqvist’s instincts are slightly above average, as he will move the puck around well.

    The Bad: Skating is Sundqvist’s most notable area of issue. His feet are heavy, and he can have trouble putting pressure on defensemen with speed. His defensive positioning could use work as well.

    Projection: He can be a below-average second line center.

    ———
    http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/puck/article.php?articleid=1585

    my guess. too far away for the Gagner trade unless MacT or one of the euro scouts has a hard on for the kid.

  79. Ryan says:

    This should be interesting…

    Woodguy showed previously that Gagner was a dead weight on RW in terms of Corsi when paired with RNH back in the 2011-12 season–albeit with a small sample.

    I’m curious to see how this looks.

  80. Pouzar says:

    I thought coming to conclusions on a GM before 1 year on the job was what they did on HFOil.
    Really people?

  81. G Money says:

    HugThePost: No organization including professional sports ones gets anywhere with toxic things like nepotism, emotion-based management/ decision-making and disregard for the paying customer. But the Oilers seem to think they can do it.

    Heh heh. Read the discussion yesterday on real world examples. What you describe is actually sadly common. Edmonton-grown example: Shaw Cable.

  82. OF17 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Martin is on LTIR and is their 2nd best D. They can’t move him unless they push Maata way too hard.

    They are actually pretty damn thin in the cupboards. Lots of top talent… thin middle talent and little coming up from underneath.

    Lots of interesting D… we don’t need that though.

    Bennett??

    Yeah, that’s the problem. A Gagner-for-Martin trade wouldn’t happen until the summer at the earliest, and even then they probably wouldn’t want to trade him. Hard to replace. Would certainly work nicely for us though.

    As to why Pittsburgh would trade Sutter, they might find it easier to replace a 3C than to find a top-6 winger. Trade for Gagner and then send a pick/prospect for Goc, Ott, Stajan, Legwand, etc., and Pittsburgh is a better team.

  83. Nigel says:

    In a cap world where everyone’s trade value (in theory anyway) is measured by hockey contributiion per $, are we even sure that Gagner has real trade value right now? With his defensive shortcomings, inability to play center and nearly $5m salary, I’m really not sure. Certainly he is a gifted offensive player but does that justify all of the above. Even if he has a strong showing on RW for a while I think he would be behind (significantly) this years 1st round pick, Yak and Eberle in terms of trade value. I think a 3rd line, two way player (wing or center) with some size and a fairly large cap hit themselves might be the limit of what Gagner could pull by himself. Expectations need to be lowered.

  84. Pouzar says:

    Can anyone recall if the Oilers were in on Kyle Turris? I doubt it with Sleepy as GM but damn that woulda been a nice “buy low” pick up.

  85. bendelson says:

    No has tossed out a possible goaltending solution.

    With the biggest question around being: Who the hell is going to play goal in Edm next year?
    Let me suggest: Gagner for Reimer? Yes? No?

    Then DD to NYI for Anders Lee ? (I don’t think you could get much more)

    Then with a little luck, they can trade Bryz for whatever they can get. at the deadline.

    This way they enter the summer with a #1 goaltender already in place…

    It avoids the impending huge overpay for a UFA goalie (or two) that could be right around the corner. (Hiller for 5yrs @ 6M sounds like a nightmare to me)

  86. OF17 says:

    bendelson:
    No has tossed out a possible goaltending solution.

    With the biggest question around being:Who the hell is going to play goal in Edm next year?
    Let me suggest:Gagner for Reimer?Yes?No?

    Then DD to NYI for Anders Lee ? (I don’t think you could get much more)

    Then with a little luck, they can trade Bryz for whatever they can get. at the deadline.

    This way they enter the summerwith a #1 goaltender already in place…

    It avoids the impending huge overpay for a UFA goalie (or two) that could be right around the corner.(Hiller for 5yrs @ 6M sounds like a nightmare to me)

    I’m actually okay with keeping Bryz around for another season. He’s not an elite option by any means, but he’s an average NHL starter and a good enough goalie to get his team into the playoffs. I think improving the forwards and defense are more important. I’m hoping he’d come cheaper than Hiller or Halak would too.

  87. Rondo says:

    Sam Gagner + ? for Sean Couturier

  88. Rondo says:

    OT:

    Anyone have any idea why Logan Couture was left off the Canadian team, he is the biggest surprise for me.

    Logan stated his injury was not part of the decision.

  89. FastOil says:

    I like MacT and give him time but not a pass on having no experience. Having to figure his job out on the fly better not take a few years or it was a terrible mistake on Lowe’s part.

    I foil every good move another GM makes against the Oiler GM. They are the competitors and the Oiler GM has to be at least as good for the team to succeed, it’s the nature of the beast. He hasn’t shown himself to be running with the big boys yet.

    It is also hard to tell where the erratic decisions are coming from. There is an uneveness to things as I see it. A few good decisions and quite a few head scratchers.

  90. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Pouzar:
    Can anyone recall if the Oilers were in on Kyle Turris? I doubt it with Sleepy as GM but damn that woulda been a nice “buy low” pick up.

    I think “character” issues would have kept him miles from EDM. This was the era that loaned Souray out to another AHL team.

  91. Caramel Obvious says:

    I’m with Ducey. The best trade is likely for young, unproven player. A couple of reasons:

    1) I think we overvalue Gagner. How different is he than Mason Raymond? His career scoring numbers are better but they aren’t so much better that someone is going to pay a premium.

    2) Most teams adding Gagner are thinking to the present. That means prospects or draft picks.

    3) It is easier to hit a homerun with an unproven player. Someone who is better than they appear to be. More risk this way but risks might be necessary.

    So while I would love a Gagner for Byfuglien trade, or really any of the names listed above, I think they are all pipedreams.

    A Gagner–Dubnyk for Miller–Talbot–contract trade is far more likely.

    Maybe Gagner for Despres + contract.

    That’s what we are looking at here.

  92. Pouzar says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I think “character” issues would have kept him miles from EDM. This was the era that loaned Souray out to another AHL team.

    Well if they wanted a team of Boy Scouts mission accomplished. Chase can’t get here fast enough.

  93. PaperKurtRussell says:

    bendelson,

    Not sure if you saw the highlights of NYI vs TOR the other night, but Bernier was awful. I’m talking October Dubnyk awful!! They may want to keep Reimer around for a while…

  94. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Rondo:
    OT:

    Anyone have any idea why Logan Couture was left off the Canadian team, he is the biggest surprise for me.

    Logan stated his injury was not part of the decision.

    Someone posted this LeBrun article earlier… couture is mentioned:

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/28641/wayne-gretzky-on-canadas-olympic-roster

    bendelson:
    No has tossed out a possible goaltending solution.

    With the biggest question around being:Who the hell is going to play goal in Edm next year?
    Let me suggest:Gagner for Reimer?Yes?No?

    Then DD to NYI for Anders Lee ? (I don’t think you could get much more)

    Then with a little luck, they can trade Bryz for whatever they can get. at the deadline.

    This way they enter the summerwith a #1 goaltender already in place…

    It avoids the impending huge overpay for a UFA goalie (or two) that could be right around the corner.(Hiller for 5yrs @ 6M sounds like a nightmare to me)

    I believe it’s been mentioned before. Something to keep in mind: Reimer is RFA at the end of the season:

    http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/

  95. Pouzar says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    I’m with Ducey.The best trade is likely for young, unproven player.A couple of reasons:

    1) I think we overvalue Gagner.How different is he than Mason Raymond?His career scoring numbers are better but they aren’t so much better that someone is going to pay a premium.

    2) Most teams adding Gagner are thinking to the present.That means prospects or draft picks.

    3) It is easier to hit a homerun with an unproven player.Someone who is better than they appear to be.More risk this way but risks might be necessary.

    So while I would love a Gagner for Byfuglien trade, or really any of the names listed above, I think they are all pipedreams.

    A Gagner–Dubnyk for Miller–Talbot–contract trade is far more likely.

    Maybe Gagner for Despres + contract.

    That’s what we are looking at here.

    Bang on. The $$ have to match up.

  96. Hammers says:

    Sam probably doesn’t have to worry as McT did say at his signing he could also play RW. Nothing wrong with experimenting and Gordon / Perron / Hemsky could be a great 3rd line that can play against 1st or 2nd lines giving lower matchup for Arco / Yak / Ebs . Should be fun to watch how Eakins matches lines

  97. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Pouzar: Well if they wanted a team of Boy Scouts mission accomplished. Chase can’t get here fast enough.

    As nebulous a term as “character” is, I’m confident the Oilers wouldn’t include the kind of player Chase is under the umbrella of “bad character.”

    Turris got a lot of guff for holding out back in PHX. A lot of people considered him a prima dona, selfish, etc.

  98. Numenius says:

    Caramel Obvious:

    So while I would love a Gagner for Byfuglien trade, or really any of the names listed above, I think they are all pipedreams.

    A Gagner–Dubnyk for Miller–Talbot–contract trade is far more likely.

    Maybe Gagner for Despres + contract.

    That’s what we are looking at here.

    Remember that Edmonton is on Miller’s no trade list, so he’s not coming here.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=434353

  99. hunter1909 says:

    First up: Kevin Lowe lets Tier 1 fans they’re always going to be tops with him.

    And Now: MacT gets into a shouting match with a fan, publicly.

    The games hardly matter. These guys might literally be thinking tank for another 3-5 years by the way they’re destroying everything they touch…like radioactive survivors of Hiroshima are this Lowe and the gang.

  100. godot10 says:

    “MacT has his head on straight and thinking clearly.”

    Really.

    The impulsive coaching change with no hiring process, and Smid for magic beans? The mad pursuit of Clarkson?

    I’m willing to give MacT a chance, but one should be should be skeptical, not trusting. MacT, like Lowe, has made more bad hockey decisions than good ones since game 7, and arguably, since he has officially become GM, not shown much better judgement.

    He has surrounded himself with all the same old voices.

    I see more of the bad MacT post game 7, than the good MacT pre-game 7.

  101. Rondo says:

    What is up with Adam Larsson is he available?

  102. hunter1909 says:

    godot10,

    Read the comments re MacT’s shouting match on HF Boards and see what fans around the NHL think of Katz’s “world class” oilers.

  103. misfit says:

    2) Most teams adding Gagner are thinking to the present.That means prospects or draft picks.

    Winnipeg and Calgary in the WC, and the Islanders, Panthers, and Sabres in the EC are all far enough from a wildcard spot that all are essentially in offseason mode as far as how they can approach the trade market.

    I could see every one of those teams except maybe Calgary having an interest in Gagner, and some of these teams could be creating additional holes that Gagner could fill at the deadline.

  104. ashley says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-KAoQ6mgNk

    I just watched this classic presser again…the one about two types of fans and 6 Stanleys. The interesting thing that I didn’t recall from the first time I saw it is that Lowe actually has over 2 minutes to think and compose himself for a carefully worded answer while MacT answers the provocative question. Loads of time to think about what he is going to say, if he wants to say anything at all.

    In fact, the PC almost moved on after MacT’s reasonable response, and Lowe interjects to add his anger-filled tirade. It appears that his anger built throughout the 2 minutes as he develops a smug grin toward the end of MacT’s response.

    For some, extra time to think is a blessing, and for Lowe, perhaps it is a curse. Maybe it would have gone better for him if he had replied first.

  105. Captain Smarmy says:

    In other reported news. Mac-T and I have agreed to lift my Oilers Boycott for one day Jan 10th. I’ve agreed to be a first tier fan for the day.

    Look for me on the TV. I’ll either be wearing a Dick Tarnstrom Oiler Road sweater that he wore on the cup run OR shirtless covered in feces with a brown paper bag over my head and a sign that says: “Welcome to the Six Ring Circus.” and it will have a picture of a season ticket holder being crushed by large Stanley Cup rings… forever…

  106. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Numenius: Remember that Edmonton is on Miller’s no trade list, so he’s not coming here.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=434353

    I’m pretty sure he means this miller:

    http://rangers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476468

    ps. look at that fucking face… that’s a face you could punch!

  107. Henry says:

    Captain Smarmy:
    In other reported news. Mac-T and I have agreed to lift my Oilers Boycott for one day Jan 10th. I’ve agreed to be a first tier fan for the day.

    Look for me on the TV. I’ll either be wearing a Dick Tarnstrom Oiler Road sweater that he wore on the cup run OR shirtless covered in feces with a brown paper bag over my head and a sign that says: “Welcome to the Six Ring Circus.” and it will have a picture of a season ticket holder being crushed by large Stanley Cup rings… forever…

    Captain Smarmy,

    If you go shirtless, please wear a pink bra as well.

  108. bendelson says:

    OF17,

    I am going on the premise that Bryz will get enough interest from around the league to not sign in Edm over the summer.

    PaperKurtRussell,

    Bernier is a starting goalie. He has been excellent this season in TO. Every starting goalie has bad games.

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Reimer’s RFA status will keep his contract lower than if he were a UFA. Plus, if he were traded to EDM, he doesn’t have a choice where he plays.

  109. Ducey says:

    misfit: Winnipeg and Calgary in the WC, and the Islanders, Panthers, and Sabres in the EC are all far enough from a wildcard spot that all are essentially in offseason mode as far as how they can approach the trade market.

    I could see every one of those teams except maybe Calgary having an interest in Gagner, and some of these teams could be creating additional holes that Gagner could fill at the deadline.

    You never know, but those teams are far more likely to be in “sell” mode trying to add picks and prospects.

  110. Ducey says:

    Henry: Captain Smarmy,

    If you go shirtless, please wear a pink bra as well.

    You are pretty particular about how your fellow feces smeared fan attends the games, eh?

  111. Captain Smarmy says:

    Knowing my luck they’ll dump feces on all of us ruining my clever attempts to get attention.

  112. misfit says:

    Ducey: You never know, but those teams are far more likely to be in“sell” mode trying to add picks and prospects.

    I think for the most part, selling teams get picks and prospects because the teams buying aren’t willing to trade NHL players to get them more than it is the selling team coveting draft picks. That’s not to say there isn’t an element of looking for pieces to help down the road either.

    But either way, at 23 and signed for 3 more years, Gagner is equal parts “now” and “future”, so I’d have to think he’d be an attractive piece for any of the above teams. He already has a history of production at the NHL level and his best hockey is still well ahead of him.

  113. Halfwise says:

    misfit: I think for the most part, selling teams get picks and prospects because the teams buying aren’t willing to trade NHL players to get them more than it is the selling team coveting draft picks. That’s not to say there isn’t an element of looking for pieces to help down the road either. But either way, at 23 and signed for 3 more years, Gagner is equal parts “now” and “future”, so I’d have to think he’d be an attractive piece for any of the above teams. He already has a history of production at the NHL level and his best hockey is still well ahead of him.

    But if he were to be traded, the same people saying he has no value would be criticizing whatever the return happens to be.

  114. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    I can’t see Pitt getting rid of Sutter, to me it’s not happening, he’s (Sutter) is a valuable player and will need his type of game come the playoffs. Much like Stall became even more important player come playoffs.

    I can see a deal coming with CBJ, the have Artem Anisimov, B.J Umberger, Brandon Dubinsky & Boone Jenner that all can play centre.

    I can’t see MacTavish wanting Anisimov passing to Yakupov.

    I use to think Dubinsky would be a great fit, (still do) but his contract is coming up & that’s a huge payday, with no guarantee he re-signs.

    I’m a believer the Oilers won’t get what Gagner is worth, certainly won’t get a Dubinsky vs Gagner traded straight up.

    I think the Oilers should go after Jenner, Gagner for Jenner would be a darn good trade, a very Sather like trade.

  115. russ99 says:

    I wonder if the majority of trade deadline period movement will be lesser than usual due to the Olympic break being right in the middle of it.

    I don’t see GMs going crazy with deals those three days after the break and before the deadline.

    But if they do, more entertaining for us.

  116. OilClog says:

    bendelson:
    OF17,

    I am going on the premise that Bryz will get enough interest from around the league to not sign in Edm over the summer.

    PaperKurtRussell,

    Bernier is a starting goalie.He has been excellent this season in TO.Every starting goalie has bad games.

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Reimer’s RFA status will keep his contract lower than if he were a UFA.Plus, if he were traded to EDM, he doesn’t have a choice where he plays.

    Bryz has a good chance of being here next season

    Look at Berniers first 16games then his last 16games.. He’s struggling mightily with the work load.

    Reimer’s value will be low as long as the leafs barely use him anymore, go after him hard Oilers.

  117. Rondo says:

    Trade Gagner for Scott Laughton

  118. Melman says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I think “character” issues would have kept him miles from EDM. This was the era that loaned Souray out to another AHL team.

    “Turris! Whatchu talking about Turris!”

  119. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Agreed, I am not sure what we could covet from the Pens….besides D prospects Maata or Pouliout….

    Can’t see them wanting to give up a lot from their roster….

  120. misfit says:

    Halfwise: But if he were to be traded, the same people saying he has no value would be criticizing whatever the return happens to be.

    So?

  121. denny33 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I agree ….but I Think it has to be dollar in, dollar out.

  122. Halfwise says:

    misfit,

    Yeah, I know. Stupid of me.

  123. denny33 says:

    russ99,

    Making a hockey trade is tough enough…..making a trade when most teams are already at the cap is doubly tough…..

    Gagner , plus prospect for Buf , straight up…..

  124. Ducey says:

    denny33:
    russ99,

    Making a hockey trade is tough enough…..making a trade when most teams are already at the cap is doubly tough…..

    Gagner , plus prospect for Buf , straight up…..

    Not necessarily. The Oilers have cap space and deep enough pockets to eat some salary.

  125. bendelson says:

    OilClog,

    I am going to disagree with you about Bryz…. I don’t see him coming back. whether the Oilers are interested or not.

    Bernier may be struggling lately but he is their starter and I don’t think they end up with both Bernier and Reimer next year – I think Reimer gets traded.

    Reimer’s value? Low is good but I do think he is one of the strongest goaltenders likely available.

  126. G Money says:

    Anyone else find it a blend of galling and amusing that the Canuckleheads have problems with “heavy” teams, given that in comparison to the Oilers, they *are* one of the heavy teams?

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/canucks-hockey/Gallagher+John+Tortorella+speaks+candidly/9364757/story.html

  127. auzy11 says:

    I also think one of the Washington goalies could be in play here,and not just Neurwirth,as they are carrying three goalies which becomes difficult,the way Holtby has been playing who would want him but looking at his body of work i might like to see him around.

  128. Ca$h-Money! says:

    If we trade with the Jets, is Burmistrov (sp.) a possibility? I know he’s in the KHL but doesn’t he want to come back, but not play for Claude Noel? I remember his underlying numbers being pretty solid.

  129. auzy11 says:

    In todays world,it has become so hard to make trades,for example,Eberle,tied into ATB pretty big,and with the ATB being a big sponser of the OIL,how do those dynamics work???? It has to have some effect on moving a player,i could be wrong but i dont think i am.

  130. Jordan says:

    So… gagner + a prospect for Big Buf.
    So… gagner + Klefbom for Big Buf
    So… Gagner + 1/2 Dustin Penner for Big Buf

    Does anyone else find it highly ironic that this trade would send Dustin Penner away for the Defensive version of Dustin Penner?

    Also, note that Penner is GP 35 // G 10 // A 10 // PTS 24 // +/- 17

    If only the Oilers could find some big skilled top six forwards… But where could they be?!

  131. G Money says:

    FA goalies of note: Khudobin, Greiss, Scrivens, Elliott, Hiller, Halak

    There are others but I left them out for a variety of reasons e.g. Thomas = age, Miller = won’t come here.

    Not a very promising list. Some youngsters with a shorter-than-Dubie history of success.

    Khudobin looks like a good bet for backup, as was bandied about last year.

    Hiller and Halak are both interesting in that they’re having poor years but have had some good runs in the past.

    None of them are proven enough that a sub .900 year is out of the question. Not sure the fanbase could handle another goalie having a Dubnyk-style sv% implosion though.

  132. G Money says:

    auzy11,

    No doubt written into the contract (if the player is traded, the contract ends). ATB would move on and find the next one.

  133. auzy11 says:

    G Money,

    G Money,

    You are right about the fanbase but what the Oil in general have done to the fan base over the last few years is that really a concern of theres? Right now there are a few teams starting a rebuild and have not had near the time,the Oil have,Buffalo,Calgary,and a couple others,which i see overtaking the Oil unless some “bold” moves are made,,,

  134. commonfan14 says:

    The real test for MacT will come if they have a terrible start next year too.

    Does he start trading futures 2 at a time, or hold on for a shot at Connor “Cure-All” McDavid?

  135. auzy11 says:

    You HAVE to make a deal this year,period,the way i see it there D needs some serious work,the other point i will make,is Eakins,i really feel he never had control of the room,and now i am certain he has no control,and like any hockey mind says thats death for a coach.

  136. art vandelay says:

    Henry,
    If you were 10 when the Jonestown massacre occured then you know that “drinking the Kool-Aid” has been part of the vernacular since you were 11.
    I’m more offended that Jones has drawn a paycheque for 30+ years without once writing a paragraph that included more than a single sentence.

  137. denny33 says:

    Ducey,

    A team must have the space to absorb Sam G nearly 5 million…..

  138. Evilas says:

    I’ve been thinking about the prospect of Big Buf and a prospect for Sam +Klefbom and Nultz, move Buf to forward, he can move back on PP or as necessary.

    Peron + Musil to Mtl for Paciorietty.

  139. Pouzar says:

    I hope we get Buff just for the pure entertainment of reading these threads.

    With Lawless criticizing him at every turn maybe his trade value is taking a hit.

  140. In the Grease says:

    For some reason this is one of the most chuckle/guffaw inducing threads I have read in a long time… from Sam Gonger to Bam Gongway (the J is silent) to, ‘yea I Do want to punch JT Miller’s face if given the chance” I think I’ve finally turned the corner, and am now just able to laugh about the whole thing. (hahaha… thanks for the levity Lowetide comment section contributors) That ‘thing’ being the Oilers obviously….. however I find solace in the fact that they WILL be better one day. Not only improbable but impossible for them not to get better…. No predictions on when to mark that on the calendar but ‘one day’ is what I am clinging to like a life raft from the Titanic.

    In the meantime, as a part-time volunteer grammar cop / spelling narc / guy who can’t stand seeing the massacre of the English language, I am compelled to declare that if you don’t know how to spell ‘lose’, as in the Oilers ‘lose’ a lot ! or I tend to ‘lose’ all my money when I bet on the Oilers winning and insist on spelling ‘lose’ as ‘loose’ I hereby challenge you to a fistfight in the parking lot (you pick which zone) of Rexall Place….. paramedics will be on standby for whoever comes up short.

    To be clear, “loose” means a screw that has come undone, or a woman that throws that sex around with no regard for a long term commitment, or i.e.: a sports team that is confident that they can will win, and plays the game sans tension, or uptightness….and is “feelin’ loose-y goosey” …..

    Just….. how can you can get that one wrong????? my God man!!!!….

    Dear Oilers…. please get better soon. I am loosing it!

  141. OilPain says:

    Evilas,

    No way Mtl is into trading Max! Wishful thinking.

  142. OilPain says:

    Pouzar,

    I’m very curious to see Buff here as well but his defensive woes worry me. The most pressing need for this team is to limit the pucks in our own net! Imagine where the team would be if we had 30-40 fewer goals against this year… Gagner + Dubnyk FOR Reimer + Pick/Player, IMO would be a step in the BEST direction. Use this years 1st rd to help solve the glaring need for a 1/2 defenseman. This team can score goals and the young guns would benefit most in the near future from some defensive stability and reliability. Just my two cents.

  143. auzy11 says:

    Eberle will bring by far the best return,as many teams would be lookin for a scorer like him,i am certain he could easily bring in a top four D man perhaps more,He could be on the train out with Gags

  144. auzy11 says:

    Yes very true no way Mtl trades Max,,,but the options out there are endless,i see Edm and Buff making a deal,of some sort,,,i smell it

  145. mumbai max says:

    Next years goalies. Reimer and Scrivens.

  146. Thiru says:

    Lander could be this generation’s Horcoff. I know that he lacks the footspeed of young Horc, but the defensive zone awareness and grittiness are all there.

    Horcoff (age 22)

    28 points in 24 games

    Lander (age 22)

    20 points in 20 games

    Keep in mind that there aren’t any big offensive weapons on the Barons that are zooming Lander’s numbers. For the most part, he’s doing it himself.

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