DEADLINE 2014: WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE?

When the NHL resumes business in late February there won’t be much time to execute transactions before the March 5th deadline. However, there’s nothing to stop GMs from talking or even completing trades in the next two weeks.

CRAIG MACTAVISH IN THE DEADLINE WINDOW

  • Added L Matt Hendricks (11, 2-0-2 even). Oilers probably look at him as a utility forward similar to Ryan Jones. He’s a bigger, heavier, less goal-filled player than Jones. I don’t think he’s a better actual hockey player, but he can do more things (PK, faceoffs). His Corsi for % for the Oilers is 40.3 in the last 10 games, which matches the eye. I’d say there’s a 100% chance he’s an Oiler next season.
  • Added D Mark Fraser (4, 0-0-0 -2). He is a subpar player by eye, and his 36% 5×5 Corsi for % (in an admittedly small sample size) matches the view. The Oilers have behaved like a different organization since the Gagner injury, and transactions like this one beget more ice-tilting (and in a bad way).
  • Added G Ben Scrivens (6, 2.01 .948). A genuine home run.

DEADLINE PREDICTIONS

  • C Sam Gagner: I think the deal gets done at the deadline. I’ll guess Gagner heads to the coast (along with about $3M of his salary) in exchange for Kyle Clifford and Alec Martinez.
  • R Ales Hemsky: I think they sign him. MacT holds a press conference, tells everyone the market was soft for such a valuable player and so they entered into negotiations and got another two-year deal done.
  • D Nick Schultz: Off to Toronto for a third round pick (currently about #81 overall).
  • D Anton Belov: Off to Boston for a third round pick (currently about #84 overall).
  • D Corey Potter: Off to Minnesota for a fourth round pick (currently about #112 overall).

POST DEADLINE ROSTER

  • Nuge-Hall-Yakupov
  • Arco-Perron-Eberle
  • Gordon-Clifford-Hemsky
  • Smyth-Gazdic-Hendricks
  • Marincin-Petry
  • Martinez-J Schultz
  • Ference-Fedun
  • Scrivens-Bryzgalov

Extra’s would probably be Jesse Joensuu, Ryan Jones and Mark Fraser, although I’d like to think the club would consider calling up Lander as a 4line option.

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171 Responses to "DEADLINE 2014: WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE?"

  1. Halfwise says:

    LT you dropped Ebs and double shifted Yak.

    Why do you hate Ebs so much?

    Edit: Fixed, v speedy!

  2. striatic says:

    can we trade for some of those japanese women’s hockey players?

    they’ve got poise. and pluck.

  3. Lowetide says:

    Halfwise:
    LT you dropped Ebs and double shifted Yak.

    Why do you hate Ebs so much?

    Dammit! I actually like Eberle a ton, force of habit on the Perron-Yakupov portion.

  4. RexLibris says:

    As much as Potter is a left-over on the current blueline roster, any future that involves the Oilers sending him away and keeping Fraser at the deadline is a questionable one for me.

    Too bad the Flames aren’t close to a playoff spot. Fraser is a Burke kind of player. I wonder if Darryl Sutter wants someone who can keep pace on the ice with Regehr?

    I disagree on Gagner to the coast.

    You’ve said many times “keep your powder dry” and I don’t see urgency for MacTavish to deal Gagner right now.

    This would mean that the Martinez spot could go to Klefbom post-deadline, something we’ve discussed aplenty here before and seems in keeping with MacTavish’s other comments.

    Either way, I suppose we’ll have roughly 25 days to sit around and discuss possibilities now.

    At least we can rest easy that Gagner isn’t going to get injured this month. *knocks on wood*

  5. TheOtherJohn says:

    Don’t think you get two roster players for Gagner even while eating $1.8m per. Wonder if Katz ever asks hockey ops guys why do I pay so much $$ for guys not on my roster?

  6. Esa10 says:

    I understand the oilers will not get value for gagner; however, I think Clifford and Martinez is selling too low.

    Iif we are eating salary then a combination of :

    King, frattin or
    Clifford, vey

    That would,solidify the bottom 9 and fit with the cluster

  7. Woodguy says:

    C Sam Gagner: I think the deal gets done at the deadline. I’ll guess Gagner heads to the coast (along with about $3M of his salary) in exchange for Kyle Clifford and Alec Martinez

    Martinez is on the IR. (elbow)

    If he’s healthy you can trade him, if he’s still on IR you can’t.

  8. Halfwise says:

    Lowetide,

    This will sound weird, but I like his posture as he stickhandles in close quarters. That said, Ebs for OEL straight up remains my view of Bold.

  9. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    C Sam Gagner: I think the deal gets done at the deadline. I’ll guess Gagner heads to the coast (along with about $3M of his salary) in exchange for Kyle Clifford and Alec Martinez

    Martinez is on the IR. (elbow)

    If he’s healthy you can trade him, if he’s still on IR you can’t.

    He was close to playing this past week, he’ll be ready.

  10. Woodguy says:

    R Ales Hemsky: I think they sign him. MacT holds a press conference, tells everyone the market was soft for such a valuable player and so they entered into negotiations and got another two-year deal done.

    Coach loves him too.

    Plug him in any line and he doesn’t hurt it.

  11. Ryan says:

    Ference looks like he’s due for a trip behind the woodshed. Do my eyes deceive me?

  12. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: He was close to playing this past week, he’ll be ready.

    Given the glut of LHD on the team, I cannot understand trading for another.

    Ference has not been good at all, but 3 more years on the contract.

    Marincin Best LHD this year. Tells you about the depth of NHL Dmen on the Oilers.

    Coming soon:

    Klefbom
    Nurse

    I like getting a real 1 LHD, but trading for another “depth” LHD doesn’t make sense.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Ryan:
    Ference looks like he’s due for a trip behind the woodshed.Do my eyes deceive me?

    Ghastly since returning from injury. Not Ryan Whitney bad, but very bad.

  14. oliveoilers says:

    I think we should actively go after players that have bad mouthed us in the past. Go after Schneider again, Eller, Jumbo Joe. That’ll teach ‘em! Only kidding ;-) I like players like Martinez, coming from successful teams with very good habits. We could make out like bandits with teams such as Buffalo or Florida, but look where they are. We’d be getting good players, but if their teams are run anything like ours, we’d be having to wait until they come good again, if they ever do. Just my POV!

  15. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: Ghastly since returning from injury. Not Ryan Whitney bad, but very bad.

    Was no screaming hell before the injury either.

    Way over his head at 1LD, especially with rookie rover JShultz

  16. oliveoilers says:

    Lowetide: Ghastly since returning from injury. Not Ryan Whitney bad, but very bad.

    Is it the injury or a big case of ‘meh’? He doesn’t strike me as a lazy player, despite his lack of ability. Sutherby on ON has a piece up, well written from a players perspective that he would feel the rust and slightly behind the pace missing only one NHL game.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Is there an obvious replacement for Vancouver as Canada’s best NHL team? http://www.puckrant.com/team_sweden/STANLEY_PARK

  18. Zangetsu says:

    Just gonna throw this out there so i can say I told you so later. We should move perron now. We could get extreme value for him, and even though he has been reay good , I doubt he repeats next year. Buy low sell high.

  19. Ryan says:

    Lowetide:
    Is there an obvious replacement for Vancouver as Canada’s best NHL team? http://www.puckrant.com/team_sweden/STANLEY_PARK

    True story. I read the article and my first thought was that it sounded like a Lowetide piece. When I checked to see who actually wrote the article… Lo and behold…

  20. borisnikov says:

    C Sam Gagner: I think the deal gets done at the deadline. I’ll guess Gagner heads to the coast (along with about $3M of his salary) in exchange for Kyle Clifford and Alec Martinez.

    If this is what they are dealing for then the Oilers will surely be losing the deal. A 4th line player with Stortini like points per 60 and an unphysical bottom pairing D that gets a substantial o-zone push. I don’t believe MacT is foolish enough to make that deal.

  21. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “However, there’s nothing to stop GMs from talking or even completing trades in the next two weeks.”

    Can I get a definition of the terms of the “trade freeze”?

    Is this like the after the deadline where teams are welcome to actually complete trades but the players aren’t eligible to play for the new team until the season is finished?

  22. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    “However, there’s nothing to stop GMs from talking or even completing trades in the next two weeks.”

    Can I get a definition of the terms of the “trade freeze”?

    Is this like the after the deadline where teams are welcome to actually complete trades but the players aren’t eligible to play for the new team until the season is finished?

    My understanding is that the NHL will not ring through transactions until the freeze is over, but that teams are free to discuss deals and move forward. I honestly don’t know how the league could stop dialogue, or even completion.

  23. Manitoba Oilers says:

    Personally I resign Belov and trade/buyout Ference maybe boston would want him back and he would waive but we would have to retain salary which I would be okay with and also IMO Ference is worse then Ryan Whitney

  24. Lowetide says:

    borisnikov: If this is what they are dealing for then the Oilers will surely be losing the deal. A 4th line player with Stortini like points per 60 and an unphysical bottom pairing D that gets a substantial o-zone push.I don’t believe MacT is foolish enough to make that deal.

    I don’t think anyone can really expect the Oilers to win a Gagner deal right now. His value is low.

  25. admiralmark says:

    Lowetide says:
    February 9, 2014 at 8:54 am

    Is there an obvious replacement for Vancouver as Canada’s best NHL team?

    Question is, “Is there a replacement for Canada’s most hated team”? ….. oh right I forgot about Toronto.

  26. Ryan says:

    borisnikov: If this is what they are dealing for then the Oilers will surely be losing the deal. A 4th line player with Stortini like points per 60 and an unphysical bottom pairing D that gets a substantial o-zone push.I don’t believe MacT is foolish enough to make that deal.

    Agree to the first part and hope you’re right about the second.

    The oilers have a long track record of selling low.

    Cogliano isn’t a good fit, so let’s trade a actual NHL player for a 2nd.

    Brodziak isn’t physical enough, let’s trade him for a fourth. Eventually we’ll find a guy like Belanger to take his slot anyway.

    Visnovsky’s a fancy dan, we need a real stud like Ryan Whitney. Sell! Sell! Sell!

    The Oilers don’t win many trades lol.

    About the only clear win was PRV and second for three years of Perron of which we’ve already burned one year.

  27. godot10 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    “However, there’s nothing to stop GMs from talking or even completing trades in the next two weeks.”

    Can I get a definition of the terms of the “trade freeze”?

    Is this like the after the deadline where teams are welcome to actually complete trades but the players aren’t eligible to play for the new team until the season is finished?

    I think what trade freeze means that there is no one answering the phones at the NHL office to do the mandatory trade validation conference calls. The NHL and NHLPA bosses will probably be in Sochi, and they don’t want NHL news interfering with Olympic hockey news.

  28. book¡je says:

    Lowetide: My understanding is that the NHL will not ring through transactions until the freeze is over, but that teams are free to discuss deals and move forward. I honestly don’t know how the league could stop dialogue, or even completion.

    I would suspect leaks about trades would be something that would have Bettman on the phone to GMs so I would expect a quiet few weeks.

  29. borisnikov says:

    Lowetide,

    There’s win, meh, and getting their ass handed to them. I’m not counting on a win but surely they can do better than an ass handing, no? Gagner has his warts but he’s still a bonafide NHL 2LC. I really hope that if these Clifford rumours are true that they include more potential than Martinez. (Edit) if average joe fan doesn’t like Petry, then Matinez will float with them like a lead balloon

  30. book¡je says:

    Halfwise:
    LT you dropped Ebs and double shifted Yak.

    Why do you hate Ebs so much?

    Edit: Fixed, v speedy!

    He’s showcasing Yak because he wants to trade him.

  31. Ducey says:

    Lowetide:
    Is there an obvious replacement for Vancouver as Canada’s best NHL team? http://www.puckrant.com/team_sweden/STANLEY_PARK

    The Leaves, unfortunately. Slim pickings.

    I see you have picked Sweden to win gold.

    Uh, no.

    As for the deadline, they will not trade Gagner as he has too much money on his contract meaning the Oilers will need to take lousy contract back or screw up their cap for the next few years. Not a smart move.

    I think Hemsky will be traded and they will re-sign him as a free agent.

    Nultz has looked better the last few games. I expect the fancy stats wont reflect that, but he has looked more determined. Maybe they can get a late second for him.

    As for Fraser, they gave up nothing. I expect that they are seeing if he might evolve into something and for depth. He is better than Grebs.

  32. Ryan says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think anyone can really expect the Oilers to win a Gagner deal right now. His value is low.

    This is where I’m confused.

    Where is the big impetus to trade Gagner coming from?

    I’m a card carrying member of the trade Gagner camp, but if it means getting Clifford and Martinez while retaining salary, why do it?

    This season’s a wash and Gagner ‘s value is unlikely to drop further.

  33. Ryan says:

    Ryan: This is where I’m confused.

    Where is the big impetus to trade Gagner coming from?

    I’m a card carrying member of the trade Gagner camp, but if it means getting Clifford and Martinez while retaining salary, why do it?

    This season’s a wash and Gagner ‘s value is unlikely to drop further.

    Obviously there’s the NTC issue, but even a worse case scenario of riding out the 2 years of a Gagner contract is unlikely to be worse than retaining 1.8 million in cap and getting a depth dman and a 4rth liner for Gagner.

  34. Andy P says:

    Lowetide:
    Is there an obvious replacement for Vancouver as Canada’s best NHL team? http://www.puckrant.com/team_sweden/STANLEY_PARK

    “Edmonton resembles a professional university student—they’ve fallen in love with the build while losing sight of the point of the build.” Ouch.

  35. Andy P says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think anyone can really expect the Oilers to win a Gagner deal right now. His value is low.

    If his value is low then why are we moving him in the face or MacT’s verbal NTC? Has he asked for a trade? Is he the core of the discontent? Is he playing that bad that with Arco in the wings as a consistency upgrade to Gags, that he is worth trading for a 4th line plug and a low end D?
    Honest questions.

  36. Lowetide says:

    Andy P: If his value is low then why are we moving him in the face or MacT’s verbal NTC? Has he asked for a trade? Is he the core of the discontent? Is he playing that bad that with Arco in the wings as a consistency upgrade to Gags, that he is worth trading for a 4th line plug and a low end D?
    Honest questions.

    The Oilers and Gagner (awhile back) agreed he wasn’t the best fit for the roster. I believe it’s in one of Friedman’s 30′s.

  37. gcw_rocks says:

    Woodguy,

    #Because Oilers

  38. speeds says:

    LT, do you think MacTavish will even look at moving Ference? Yes, he signed a 4 year deal this past summer, but so did Hendricks with NSH, and NSH still moved him.

    A little bit different with a NMC, but I wonder if MacT looks to the future, sees Ference as a 3rd pair LD, MAYBE 2nd pair LD, and says to himself ” I need those spots for Nurse/Klefbom/Marincin, so if I can move Ference now and open up some cap space, and as importantly that depth chart spot, great.”

  39. Andy P says:

    Ryan: Obviously there’s the NTC issue, but even a worse case scenario of riding out the 2 years of a Gagner contract is unlikely to be worse than retaining 1.8 million in cap and getting a depth dman and a 4rth liner for Gagner.

    IIRC the NTC only applies in Year 3 of the deal, and Gags can waive his NTC in Y2 just like he can waive the verbal NTC right now.

    Pure speculation: Does Gags feel he has lost the stare down with Eakins and wants out? If he is core to the waning resistance against Eakins, that would explain the worth of addition by subtraction.

  40. Pouzar says:

    Gagner + Contract X for a sheltered Martinez, Clifford, and retained salary?
    No way MacT is that silly. We’ll be looking to unload those 2 stiffs in a year.
    If that was the deal why wasn’t made already?
    I don’t want Martinez taking a second of icetime from an auditioning Klefbom and Fedun.

  41. Old School G says:

    I count myself among those that hope MacT hangs on to Sam until the summer. Hopefully Mac can sell Gagner’s current season as a one-off, which I tend to think it is, and make a more fair deal. I think Sam has a real good career in front of him. It appears the trade of Sam Gagner is imminent however. Just please not LA, anywhere but LA. (Stares off still wishing that Jarret Stoll was never traded).

  42. Lowetide says:

    speeds:
    LT, do you think MacTavish will even look at moving Ference?Yes, he signed a 4 year deal this past summer, but so did Hendricks with NSH, and NSH still moved him.

    A little bit different with a NMC, but I wonder if MacT looks to the future, sees Ference as a 3rd pair LD, MAYBE 2nd pair LD, and says to himself ” I need those spots for Nurse/Klefbom/Marincin, so if I can move Ference now and open up some cap space, and as importantly that depth chart spot, great.”

    No. I think Ference is part of the team for the duration of his contract.

  43. speeds says:

    Lowetide,

    Do you think that’s because they don’t want to move him, wouldn’t move him for the offered return, or because they can’t move him?

  44. gvblackhawk says:

    Halfwise:
    Lowetide,

    This will sound weird, but I like his posture as he stickhandles in close quarters. That said, Ebs for OEL straight up remains my view of Bold.

    I like it. But first you would have to get Don Maloney to take a lot of peyote.

  45. oliveoilers says:

    Andy P: “Edmonton resembles a professional university student—they’ve fallen in love with the build while losing sight of the point of the build.” Ouch.

    Never a truer word spoken in jest. All some of these guys have known is how to play for a bad hockey team. Tough habit to break. I think of some of the apprentices I have had and some of their habits. Some good, some downright dangerous. People are naturally resistant to change, but as the ancient prophets tell us: “Change is good, Donkey!”

  46. gvblackhawk says:

    speeds:
    LT, do you think MacTavish will even look at moving Ference?Yes, he signed a 4 year deal this past summer, but so did Hendricks with NSH, and NSH still moved him.

    A little bit different with a NMC, but I wonder if MacT looks to the future, sees Ference as a 3rd pair LD, MAYBE 2nd pair LD, and says to himself ” I need those spots for Nurse/Klefbom/Marincin, so if I can move Ference now and open up some cap space, and as importantly that depth chart spot, great.”

    Ference embodies the most crucial aspects of a professional hockey player: He is a workout guru and his diet is sublime. That’s captain material.

  47. justDOit says:

    Do you think Bryz was going to offer to help push the snow?

    http://i.imgur.com/VjmF8HU.jpg

  48. sliderule says:

    Lowe has a history of trading players who were injured and when they returned played a little safe.Stoll is an example and Horcoff after returning from injury last year got in his bad books.Horc probably already was but got in deeper after he returned.
    Gagner suffered a terrible injury and even if he is not bothered physically it probably be a while before he gets over the mental part.
    I am hopeful Mact is strong enough to resist the pressure that I am sure will come from above to dump him for an Kings type trade.

  49. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ference isn’t going anywhere. He’s the coach’s player voice. They are basically the same person. The best we can hope for is that he plays 3rd line and serves as an actual vet handholder for the kids coming up (N. Schultz has been awful in this role).

    I think Schultz goes to Bos. and they keep Belov (but the fate of Belov probably depends a lot on his Olympics) and he comes back into the fold after Nick is gone.

    I could see Potter moving. I’m not sure you get a 4th for him though.

    I also think both Ryans could be on the move for picks.

    On Gagner… if Lady Pants is to be believed I think MacT doesn’t take LT’s trade. He’s already rejected it apparently:

    Tracy Lane ‏@TreenasOil Protected Tweets Feb 7
    Gagner update Kings wanted Oilers to take almost half of his salary back for Clifford and Martiniz and also wanted Pitlick Mr.Katz said no

    Tracy Lane ‏@TreenasOil Protected Tweets Feb 7
    Katz would take part of salary if Kings included Muzzin

    Tracy Lane ‏@TreenasOil Protected Tweets Feb 7
    Leafs and Hawks have also expressed interest in Gagner

    Hawks have fond memories of Gagner.

  50. Old School G says:

    justDOit:
    Do you think Bryz was going to offer to help push the snow?

    http://i.imgur.com/VjmF8HU.jpg

    эй красавица

  51. Hammers says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think anyone can really expect the Oilers to win a Gagner deal right now. His value is low.

    That’s why you wait untill of season / draft . McT needs to see if more than LA is interested, if his not allready .You left Jones of your list . If you could get a 4th take it . It also gives Pitlick some games . As for Hemsky offer him around $ 10-11 mil for 3 years if answer is no trade him . Love the guy but not at $ 5 mil .I would keep Belov if they can sign him for the sam money .

  52. The Great One says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Gagner to Toronto for Peter Holland makes some sense.

  53. mumbai max says:

    I agree waiting until summer to move Gagner makes the most sense.

    Do you think there is any real chance that Legwand or Stastny get to the summer as UFA’s.
    Would they not be perfect candidates for an overpay?

  54. Hammers says:

    Lowetide: The Oilers and Gagner (awhile back) agreed he wasn’t the best fit for the roster. I believe it’s in one of Friedman’s 30′s.

    All the more reason to wait . If true it means Gags will take a trade at any time .

  55. Lowetide says:

    Hammers: All the more reason to wait . If true it means Gags will take a trade at any time .

    I’m all for keeping Gagner, full stop.

  56. cabbiesmacker says:

    Zangetsu:
    Just gonna throw this out there so i can say I told you so later. We should move perron now. We could get extreme value for him, and even though he has been reay good , I doubt he repeats next year. Buy low sell high.

    Terrible. Hold your nose terrible.

    Fiberglass drapes?

  57. oliveoilers says:

    gvblackhawk: Ference embodies the most crucial aspects of a professional hockey player:He is a workout guru and his diet is sublime.That’s captain material.

    No, but that’s definitely part of it. While your captain doesn’t have to be your best player, he cannot be one of your worst. Leading by example, he doesn’t have to put up career numbers, just be the voice of experience and calm the team when needed. He can achieve this by just keeping to the game plan, making the simple, safe plays and giving encouragement to his team. Do not forget that while Ference’s off ice activities set a very good example of how one should behave off the ice, his primary roles on this team is to 1. Play defence. 2. Be that leader on the ice. Everything else is gravy, a great tone to set for the kids, but not why he’s paid. Messier is widely regarded as one of the great leaders in pro-sports, however his off ice activities left a little to be desired.

    That being said, I believe a man is known through his actions. I didn’t like Crosby or Landeskog receiving the captaincy. This was highlighted in the Pens/Flyers playoff series. Crosby came across as a spiteful, whiny bitch. Where as guys like Alfredson and Lidstrom are very respected. I’m not saying that only older guys should be skipper, but at least they have the benefit of experience to fall back on. You know the saying “if I knew then what I know now”? When things go south, the skipper is the first person the team look to, whether for inspiration or positive action. Crosby is now maturing as reflected in his captaincy of Canada. Now he’s ready!

  58. cabbiesmacker says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    Tracy Lane ‏@TreenasOil Protected TweetsFeb 7
    Leafs and Hawks have also expressed interest in Gagner

    Hawks have fond memories of Gagner.

    Question is who’d be coming back and how Gagner’s cap hit fits in Chitown. Hawks are weak at 2C but I don’t think they need to rush as they’ve played an awful lot of hockey in the last year to make a deep run in the playoffs.

    The Gagner – Kane magic might still be there if the latter can still drag him along in his wake. My hope is the Hawks have their eyes on a better defensive player than Gagner.

  59. justDOit says:

    Zangetsu:
    Just gonna throw this out there so i can say I told you so later. We should move perron now. We could get extreme value for him, and even though he has been reay good , I doubt he repeats next year. Buy low sell high.

    I don’t think that a player with attitude like this should be traded away: http://gfycat.com/InformalHotJanenschia

  60. oliveoilers says:

    cabbiesmacker: Question is who’d be coming back and how Gagner’s cap hit fits in Chitown.Hawks are weak at 2C but I don’t think they need to rush as they’ve played an awful lot of hockey in the last year to make a deep run in the playoffs.

    The Gagner – Kane magic might still be there if the latter can still drag him along in his wake. My hope is the Hawks have their eyes on a better defensive player than Gagner.

    Agreed, Kane is allowed to cheat for offence because of the defensive acumen of his line mates. He might ‘also’ be in a lot of pictures next to Gagner if they’re on the same line!

  61. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The Great One:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Gagner to Toronto for Peter Holland makes some sense.

    I don’t think that gets it done for a couple of reasons.

    MacT will want more and Tor won’t be able to absorb the cap differential of such a trade.

    I think there is a very real possibility both macT and Lombardi (while genuinely considering a deal) are also running a counter-trey to try and create some operating space for themselves in the market.

  62. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    I’m not convinced on LA, but if we eat 1.5 MM of Gagner’s salary your assets coming back are significantly sweetened. That’s a serious, serious value contract for another club and if you are in a ‘win now’ mode and cap constrained, you can trade young and good potential for that situation. As a contrast, what does Statsny get this summer? I appreciate he is arguably a better player, but at what cost? This is the leverage point I think in negotiations for better assets.

  63. The Great One says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I don’t think that gets it done for a couple of reasons.

    MacT will want more and Tor won’t be able to absorb the cap differential of such a trade.

    I think there is a very real possibility both macT and Lombardi (while genuinely considering a deal) are also running a counter-trey to try and create some operating space for themselves in the market.

    Gagner to the Leafs for Holland and Kulemin (if he will re-sign with the Oilers) almost balances the dollars.

    I think in almost any deal, MacT is going to have to eat some of Gagner’s contract.

  64. Ryan says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    I also think both Ryans could be on the move for picks.

    Am I one of them? Good Gord just get me out of here already. :)

  65. Marc says:

    cabbiesmacker: Question is who’d be coming back and how Gagner’s cap hit fits in Chitown.Hawks are weak at 2C but I don’t think they need to rush as they’ve played an awful lot of hockey in the last year to make a deep run in the playoffs.

    The Gagner – Kane magic might still be there if the latter can still drag him along in his wake. My hope is the Hawks have their eyes on a better defensive player than Gagner.

    A quick spin on Capgeek suggests that the only way that Chicago can deal for Gagner is if Bickell comes back the other way. I can’t see any combination of potentially tradable players on Chicago’s roster that would add up to enough salary that doesn’t include Bickell.

    $4M per for another 3 seasons is an awful lot for a guy who puts up 20-30 pts a season on a very good team.

    That said, a bottom six of:
    Gordon, Bickell, Hemsky
    Hendricks, Smyth, XX
    though expensive, is perilously close to having six actual NHL players on it.

    Bickell’s got a modified NTC though, and Edmonton has a way of making it on to those Do Not Trade Me There lists, so it may not matter in any event.

  66. justDOit says:

    Ryan: Am I one of them? Good Gord just get me out of here already.

    I just read on hockeybuzz, that you’ve been traded to flamesnation for a Kent Wilson previously used sharpie.

  67. misfit says:

    More than any of the last few years where there was a lot of chatter about Hemsky, I really feel that this is the year he gets traded. My choice would, of course, be to re-sign him.

    Gagner will be traded and it won’t be a favourable one for the Oilers. I hope they wait until the offseason.

  68. oliveoilers says:

    justDOit: I just read on hockeybuzz, that you’ve been traded to flamesnation for a Kent Wilson previously used sharpie.

    It’s on HBuzz, it must be true.

  69. cabbiesmacker says:

    oliveoilers: Agreed, Kane is allowed to cheat for offence because of the defensive acumen of his line mates.He might ‘also’ be in a lot of pictures next to Gagner if they’re on the same line!

    That’s not entirely true. Kane has played second line for most of the year and since Versteeg came via trade he’s been Kane’s opposite winger. Hardly a defensive stalwart.

    He’s had Pirri for a C when he’s been up, Shaw some and Handzus some. Decent but not knock em dead types.

    Handzus – Kane – Versteeg
    Shaw – Kane – Saad
    Pirri – Kane – Saad

    Truth is Kane manufactures offence no matter who he’s playing with which can be said for most of the truly gifted types. Only 23 of his 63 points have come on the PP and he plays more 5 v 5 time than Toews does. Mainly because Toews, like RNH, is put in the questionable position on the PK.

    Makes you wonder what the kid would be putting up playing with Toews, Hossa, and Sharp on a regular basis 5v5.

    Also makes one muse over wtf was going through the Oilers collective heads when they took Musil over Saad. Not that I’m complaining or nuthin.

  70. Ryan says:

    justDOit: I just read on hockeybuzz, that you’ve been traded to flamesnation for a Kent Wilson previously used sharpie.

    I’d say that’s a trade that could work out well for both sides.

  71. Woodguy says:

    Ducey,

    As for Fraser, they gave up nothing. I expect that they are seeing if he might evolve into something and for depth. He is better than Grebs.

    No.

    Grebs is in the minors because he was never in NHL shape and couldn’t keep up with the play.

    For the whole 83:44 Grebs played for the Oilers they had 52.3% of the shot attempts on the ice

    For the whole 20:22 Fraser has played for the OIlers they had 37% of the shot attemps on ice.

    Ridicu-small samples, but they bear out what the eye sees.

    Grebs may be a has been, but Fraser is just plain not good.

    I’m sure playing with Ference hasn’t helped, but he wasn’t any good with the Leafs this year and by all accounts was touched by Gord with luck last year (1069 PDO far, far, far right end of the curve)

  72. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The Great One: Gagner to the Leafs for Holland and Kulemin (if he will re-sign with the Oilers) almost balances the dollars.

    I think in almost any deal, MacT is going to have to eat some of Gagner’s contract.

    I don’t think that works either. MacT isn’t going to take on a rental. He’d need Kulemin signed and at reasonable dollars.

    As you say, he may very well have to take on some of Gagner’s salary… which ironically makes it even less likely he accepts a trade that he doesn’t feel is win.

    I think the Muzzin and Clifford deal Lady Pants outlines sets the bar: two players under contract into next year. Both on cheap deals. Both RFA after their current deal expires.

    This is long term thinking here.

  73. gvblackhawk says:

    oliveoilers: No, but that’s definitely part of it.While your captain doesn’t have to be your best player, he cannot be one of your worst.Leading by example, he doesn’t have to put up career numbers, just be the voice of experience and calm the team when needed.He can achieve this by just keeping to the game plan, making the simple, safe plays and giving encouragement to his team.Do not forget that while Ference’s off ice activities set a very good example of how one should behave off the ice, his primary roles on this team is to 1.Play defence.2.Be that leader on the ice.Everything else is gravy, a great tone to set for the kids, but not why he’s paid.Messier is widely regarded as one of the great leaders in pro-sports, however his off ice activities left a little to be desired.

    That being said, I believe a man is known through his actions.I didn’t like Crosby or Landeskog receiving the captaincy.This was highlighted in the Pens/Flyers playoff series.Crosby came across as a spiteful, whiny bitch.Where as guys like Alfredson and Lidstrom are very respected.I’m not saying that only older guys should be skipper, but at least they have the benefit of experience to fall back on.You know the saying “if I knew then what I know now”?When things go south, the skipper is the first person the team look to, whether for inspiration or positive action.Crosby is now maturing as reflected in his captaincy of Canada.Now he’s ready!

    So what you are saying is that diet and exercise are NOT the most important aspects of being a captain?

  74. jp says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Ference isn’t going anywhere. He’s the coach’s player voice. They are basically the same person. The best we can hope for is that he plays 3rd line and serves as an actual vet handholder for the kids coming up (N. Schultz has been awful in this role).

    I think Schultz goes to Bos. and they keep Belov (but the fate of Belov probably depends a lot on his Olympics) and he comes back into the fold after Nick is gone.

    I could see Potter moving. I’m not sure you get a 4th for him though.

    I also think both Ryans could be on the move for picks.

    On Gagner… if Lady Pants is to be believed I think MacT doesn’t take LT’s trade. He’s already rejected it apparently:

    Tracy Lane ‏@TreenasOil Protected TweetsFeb 7
    Gagner update Kings wanted Oilers to take almost half of his salary back for Clifford and Martiniz and also wanted Pitlick Mr.Katz said no

    Tracy Lane ‏@TreenasOil Protected TweetsFeb 7
    Katz would take part of salary if Kings included Muzzin

    Tracy Lane ‏@TreenasOil Protected TweetsFeb 7
    Leafs and Hawks have also expressed interest in Gagner

    Hawks have fond memories of Gagner.

    So Katz is the GM now? Huh.

    On Ference – really don’t see him going anywhere. And he’s not blocking anyone. He plays both sides and can/will slip down/over to 3RD as soon as there’s a better option to take his spot.

    There will surely be moves, but Ference won’t be the problem if this is the lineup in a couple of years:
    Marincin-Petry
    Nurse-Schultz
    Klefbom-Ference

  75. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Ducey,

    As for Fraser, they gave up nothing. I expect that they are seeing if he might evolve into something and for depth. He is better than Grebs.

    No.

    Grebs is in the minors because he was never in NHL shape and couldn’t keep up with the play.

    For the whole 83:44 Grebs played for the Oilers they had 52.3% of the shot attempts on the ice

    For the whole 20:22 Fraser has played for the OIlers they had 37% of the shot attemps on ice.

    Ridicu-small samples, but they bear out what the eye sees.

    Grebs may be a has been, but Fraser is just plain not good.

    I’m sure playing with Ference hasn’t helped, but he wasn’t any good with the Leafs this year and by all accounts was touched by Gord with luck last year (1069 PDOfar, far, far right end of the curve)

    The 10-11 season is the real surprise:
    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67&ds=1&f3=MARKFRASER&f1=2013_s+2012_s+2012_p+2011_s+2010_s+2009_s+2009_p

    On Grebs… I think it’s possible the team, esp. Eakins, perversely values Fraser over Grebs for the same reason Mont. traded Diaz.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/habs-bought-into-a-myth-when-they-dealt-diaz/

  76. The Great One says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I don’t think that works either. MacT isn’t going to take on a rental. He’d need Kulemin signed and at reasonable dollars.

    As you say, he may very well have to take on some of Gagner’s salary… which ironically makes it even less likely he accepts a trade that he doesn’t feel is win.

    I think the Muzzin and Clifford deal Lady Pants outlines sets the bar: two players under contract into next year. Both on cheap deals. Both RFA after their current deal expires.

    This is long term thinking here.

    MacT may want Clifford and Muzzin but he won’t get them.

    It’s very rare than a GM trades one of his top 4D heading into the playoffs.

    Martinez perhaps?

  77. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    jp: So Katz is the GM now? Huh.

    No. He’s the owner.

    Don’t delude yourself that what is alluded to here isn’t common practice. Anytime a big player is on the move, esp. when $$ is involved an Owner is going to consulted.

  78. G Money says:

    This is a bit tangential to the topic, but it speaks to a problem that is fundamental to the Oilers in terms of assessing the state of the infinirebuild and the trading away of young players, so I thought it would be of interest.

    The following is a quote from Nate Silver’s “The Signal and The Noise – Why So Many Predictions Fail – but Some Don’t” (in my opinion, one of two absolute must-reads if you want to understand fancy stats as applied to sports).

    The “Sanders” that Silver refers to is John Sanders, a scout for the LA Dodgers. The quote below is with respect to baseball of course, but the way I read it, it looks at players at a fundamental level, and so probably has much carryover to hockey. In particular, it is of interest given that Goneyay is now 24 years old.


    Sanders’s focus is less on physical tools and more on usable, game-ready skills. The extent to which one can be translated to the other depends on what he calls a players mental toolbox. The mental tools are often slower to develop than the physical ones; Sanders’s wife is a special-needs educator and pointed him towards research suggesting that most of us are still in a state of mental adolescence until about the age of 24.

    Before that age, Sanders will cut a player some slack if he sees signs that their mental tools are developing. After that, he needs to see performance. Interestingly, 24 is right about the age when a player is usually in AA and his performance starts to become more predictable from his statistics.

    Sanders has no formal definition of what a players mental toolbox should include, but over the course of our conversation, I identified five different intellectual and psychological abilities that he believes help to predict success at the major-league level.
    - Preparedness and work ethic
    - Concentration and focus
    - Competitiveness and self-confidence
    - Stress management and humility
    - Adaptiveness and learning ability

    By my read, Gagner is strong on points 1, 3, and 4, but suffers on 2 and 5.

  79. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The Great One: MacT may want Clifford and Muzzin but he won’t get them.

    It’s very rare than a GM tradesone of his top 4D heading into the playoffs.

    Martinez perhaps?

    I didn’t say he’d get them. I pointed that out that that may well be (if we accept Lady Pants here) his line in the sand. If he’s eating salary and trading Gagner that is the bar the trade partner has to hit: Clifford and Muzzin.

    I gather something like Clifford and Martinez would work if no salary is retained (or minimal salary).

  80. Ryan says:

    The Great One: MacT may want Clifford and Muzzin but he won’t get them.

    It’s very rare than a GM tradesone of his top 4D heading into the playoffs.

    Martinez perhaps?

    Martinez and the big red dog for Gagner at $3 m cap hit is a loser trade for the Oilers. That’s not opinion either, it’s just a fact.

  81. G Money says:

    Woodguy: I’m sure playing with Ference hasn’t helped, but he wasn’t any good with the Leafs this year and by all accounts was touched by Gord with luck last year (1069 PDO far, far, far right end of the curve)

    Someone coined this on a previous thread (and I would give credit if I could remember who), but it is so spot on it deserves repeating. This is the Oilers’ FFFFS pairing. As in … Ference and Fraser FFS.

  82. Lowetide says:

    Ryan: Martinez and the big red dog for Gagner at $3 m cap hit is a loser trade for the Oilers.That’s not opinion either, it’s just a fact.

    Gagner’s value is far less than what it was in the summer. I think people are forgetting that right now. I’d much rather keep him, but if you’re trading him now expecting 100 cents of the dollar will only result in rage and disappointment. jmo.

  83. jp says:

    justDOit: I don’t think that a player with attitude like this should be traded away: http://gfycat.com/InformalHotJanenschia

    Nice. I appreciate the original sell high sentiment, but I don’t think he’s playing far above his head on the year (14.1% shooting this year vs 13.6% this year).

  84. Ryan says:

    Lowetide: Gagner’s value is far less than what it was in the summer. I think people are forgetting that right now. I’d much rather keep him, but if you’re trading him now expecting 100 cents of the dollar will only result in rage and disappointment. jmo.

    I completely agree with you which is exactly why you can’t trade him right now.

  85. jp says:

    Martinez is interesting. Has always had great corsi numbers, but 3rd pairing TOI, 3rd pairing competition and a ZS push. Kind of the anti-Couturier: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67&ds=1&f3=ALECMARTINEZ&f1=2013_s+2012_s+2012_p+2011_s+2011_p+2010_s+2010_p+2009_s

    Maybe he could keep it up with 2nd pairing minutes, but it’s hard to know.

  86. Lowetide says:

    Ryan: I completely agree with you which is exactly why you can’t trade him right now.

    I think MacT’s choices are:

    1. Trade Gagner in the summer, but with the knowledge that his value may be the same.
    2. Determine that Gagner is not tradeable until at least NEXT summer, when his one year NTC expires.
    3. Deals him now and signs Hemsky as the addition

  87. Ryan says:

    jp,

    Bottom of the roster players on very good teams are difficult to interpret in terms of stats.

    Everyone on the Kings float shinny blue bubbles and it obviously isn’t because the entire team is built out of top flight first line players and top pairing dmen.

  88. teddyturnbuckle says:

    This whole Gagner rumour reminds me of the Smyth for Fraser trade. Lombardi leaks the trade out early on his end to try and force it. Once it has gone public and names are out there , it puts pressure on the other GM to do damage control or close the deal. Sneaky Lombardi.

  89. Lowetide says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    This whole Gagner rumour reminds me of the Smyth for Fraser trade.Lombardi leaks the trade out early on his end to try and force it.Once it has gone public and names are out there , it puts pressure on the other GM to do damage control or close the deal.Sneaky Lombardi.

    Dealing with Lombardi is like playing the slots in Vegas. If you get out even you’re a King.

  90. Ryan says:

    Lowetide: I think MacT’s choices are:

    1. Trade Gagner in the summer, but with the knowledge that his value may be the same.
    2. Determine that Gagner is not tradeable until at least NEXT summer, when his one year NTC expires.
    3. Deals him now and signs Hemsky as the addition

    So basically part of the impetus to trade him is addition by subtraction from what you’re saying. If that’s the case, you’d hope there’s a trade partner with cap space willing to take a flier on a former 6 ov pick who’s still young.

  91. Lowetide says:

    Ryan: So basically part of the impetus to trade him is addition by subtraction from what you’re saying.If that’s the case, you’d hope there’s a trade partner with cap space willing to take a flier on a former 6 ov pick who’s still young.

    However, we know the Oilers like Clifford and want that physical element. I’d rather have four lines who could kill you with skill, but the Oilers management group is adding size because they feel that’s a key to competing in the Pacific division.

    It going to happen imo. The Oilers are going to become less skilled and more physical.

  92. thejonrmcleod says:

    I’d like the Oilers to try something like this:

    Hall – RNH – Yak
    Perron – Arcobello – Eberle
    Smyth – Gordon – Hemsky
    Hendricks – Lander – Pitlick

  93. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    thejonrmcleod:
    I’d like the Oilers to try something like this:

    Hall – RNH – Yak
    Perron – Arcobello – Eberle
    Smyth – Gordon – Hemsky
    Hendricks – Lander – Pitlick

    You’ve just taken Gagner out without replacing him.

    are you suggesting trading for a D or a pick maybe?

  94. Lowetide says:

    Fyten (Lander) 1-1

  95. Marc says:

    Lowetide:

    It going to happen imo. The Oilers are going to become less skilled and more physical.

    To be fair, it’s not like the Oilers have had great success by being highly skilled and not at all physical.

  96. Chris says:

    I’m going to point out one thing about these threads that has started to drive me nuts – Sean Couturier. The player has a carrier high of thirteen…thirteen as in one more than twelve goals. His career high for points …. twenty eight! As much as traditionally plus minus is flawed over his career the “epic” Sean Couturier is even. As far as fancy stats go his corsi real is -3.2. Yes, his quality of competition number on the Flyers this year is good. But his corsi is meh and his points per 60 is decidedly meh. This player is basically BOYD GORDON. We already have Boyd Gordon.

    Sean Couturier is not some magical pancea that can fix the oilers. He should not be included in every trade proposal as being “just what the oilers need”. You sound as stupid as Jason Gregor and Brownlee saying we need “grit” when you write this. Sean Couturier is an “okay” player. Saying the Flyers wouldn’t trade him for Jordan Eberle straight across is stupid. Thinking the Oilers should make that trade is also stupid. Eberle can score 30 goals. Couturier has demonstrated the ability to score 13 in his best year. Hockey is a game you win by scoring goals.

    I’ve tired of some of the commenters here developing a creepy Pierre McGuire like man crush on some player at the draft and then deciding he is Hockey Jesus and thinking the Oilers must trade anything and everything to acquire him. Especially when all rational thought and actual information are discarded in analysing the how and why this should happen. Just stop.

  97. thejonrmcleod says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I’m assuming Gagner is gone. I have no idea what the return will be, so I’m making the lineup without him.

  98. Lowetide says:

    Combs (Fyten, Lander) 2-1 OKC. I have no idea who Combs is.

  99. Moose says:

    Off topic, but was in Portland for business this weekend and saw that the Winterhawks were playing Everett, so decided to brave a blizzard to go see Khaira and Ben Betker.

    Was really pleasantly surprised with Betker, given his draft position. He was out there all night against the Petan/Leipsic line and kept them in check (only time they scored was when they got away from that matchup). He also killed penalties on the first unit. Big body, decent skater for his size and was better with the puck than I expected, made some solid outlet passes under pressure. Looked a little rough on his transitions and pivots, but not glaringly bad. He’s not overly physical (I can already hear the MSM running him outta town), the one thing he did exceptionally well was take away time and space with his stick and reach. Broke up what woulda been a slam dunk 2 on 1 goal with a great stick check. Really had good awareness all over the ice. He jumped in the play a couple times offensively and scored the first goal of the game when he got to the front of the net and slid a puck five hole on his backhand. Think their might be a player there.

    Khaira was centering the top line, and they went up against Petan/Leipsic a lot too, so they were probably asked to do a little more shutdown duty than score. Played third man high a lot and was pretty responsible defensively. He was quiet, but Everett is pretty bad offensively and what little his line generated 5v5 he was the catalyst for. He played first line PP duty as well, standing in front of the net. He used his body well all night to protect the puck, and on the PP they couldn’t move him. Couple times early in the game Pouliot and Dumba tried to move him and couldn’t so they just stopped trying. He hits and made some nice plays with the puck; I think his skating is fine when he gets into gear, but probably needs to get a bit quicker off the hop.

    Just my two cents on one game, but it looks like both a progressing nicely. Khaira in OKC next year and another year of junior for Betker would probably be beneficial until the OKC glut sorts out.

  100. Lowetide says:

    Marc: To be fair, it’s not like the Oilers have had great success by being highly skilled and not at all physical.

    they were highly skilled, inexperienced and fitted with atrocious blue..

  101. B S says:

    striatic:
    can we trade for some of those japanese women’s hockey players?

    they’ve got poise. and pluck.

    I like it, and we wouldn’t need to trade, just sign them as free agents. Just watched that game and, blame who you want on the Oilers (Eakins, Hall, Ference), but our team should be F#$%ing embarrassed. Some girls with little pay, relatively limited training time, severe self-esteem issues, and a massive size disadvantage were playing excellent team hockey and getting great chances against a Swedish team that will probably finish 4th (certainly top 5) at the tournament.

    I don’t think Edmonton could beat the Japanese women the way they’ve played this season, so yeah, sign those girls up.

  102. VanOil says:

    Kelfbom-Musil look dominant at the AHL level tonight.

  103. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Combs (Fyten, Lander) 2-1 OKC. I have no idea who Combs is.

    ha!

    the funny thing is he was the add on in the Martindale trade (or so it seemed)… but Nesbitt has already been traded again and so far Martindale is playing amazing and Combs is way out scoring Pinizotto

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=23810

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?statsleague=WC&player=15479&team=&year=&status=&leagueid=&season=

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=13845

  104. Glock9 says:

    Chris,

    Breathe man,,,,Breathe :)

  105. FastOil says:

    Chris:
    Just stop.

    No. :)

  106. speeds says:

    Lowetide: Gagner’s value is far less than what it was in the summer. I think people are forgetting that right now. I’d much rather keep him, but if you’re trading him now expecting 100 cents of the dollar will only result in rage and disappointment. jmo.

    Why would EDM trade him if his value is lower than his worth?

  107. Lowetide says:

    speeds: Why would EDM trade him if his value is lower than his worth?

    Elliotte’s 30 thoughts from early January

    5. Sam Gagner: He was not eligible for a no-trade clause when he signed his three-year extension last summer (It kicks-in next season). Craig MacTavish graciously promised to honour it this season, but as Edmonton searches for answers, it sounds like both sides believe it is time for a change, not that anyone is commenting. Should a deal happen, no doubt MacTavish will try to make it a soft landing.

    They have a $4.8M center who had his jaw broken and both sides agree it is time for a change. I’m not, and have not, suggested the Oilers trade Gagner. These are the facts presented to us, I cannot answer your question since I’m not privy to the conversation beyond what we have been presented with at this time.

  108. The Great One says:

    speeds: Why would EDM trade him if his value is lower than his worth?

    As in any line of work, you are worth exactly what you get paid. (otherwise you might seek other employment that pays better).

    In this case, Gagner’s “worth” is exactly what you can get for him on the open market.

    If Gagner plays better next season, his “worth” may rise but it also may not if he doesn’t.

  109. VanOil says:

    Lowetide:
    It going to happen imo. The Oilers are going to become less skilled and more physical.

    I fear you are right.

    Because if Fraser is the answer the question is fucking stupid. We need more 4th line type players as much as we need #7 and #8 defenders.

  110. speeds says:

    The Great One,

    Trade value is not always the same as worth to the team.

  111. Derek says:

    Chris:
    I’m going to point out one thing about these threads that has started to drive me nuts – Sean Couturier. The player has a carrier high of thirteen…thirteen as in one more than twelve goals. His career high for points …. twenty eight! As much as traditionally plus minus is flawed over his career the “epic” Sean Couturier is even. As far as fancy stats go his corsi real is -3.2. Yes, his quality of competition number on the Flyers this year is good. But his corsi is meh and his points per 60 is decidedly meh. This player is basically BOYD GORDON. We already have Boyd Gordon.

    Sean Couturier is not some magical pancea that can fix the oilers. He should not be included in every trade proposal as being “just what the oilers need”. You sound as stupid as Jason Gregor and Brownlee saying we need “grit” when you write this. Sean Couturier is an “okay” player. Saying the Flyers wouldn’t trade him for Jordan Eberle straight across is stupid. Thinking the Oilers should make that trade is also stupid. Eberle can score 30 goals. Couturier has demonstrated the ability to score 13 in his best year. Hockey is a game you win by scoring goals.

    I’ve tired of some of the commenters here developing a creepy Pierre McGuire like man crush on some player at the draft and then deciding he is Hockey Jesus and thinking the Oilers must trade anything and everything to acquire him. Especially when all rational thought and actual information are discarded in analysing the how and why this should happen. Just stop.

    Zone Start CF% Age P/G
    39.5 49.6 19 0.35
    32.4 48.3 20 0.33
    43.1 48.6 21 0.47

    Shockingly as Couturiers zone start has risen from the 30 percent area his offense has grown. He’s almost at the 0.5 P/G mark as a 21 year old playing the hardest available minutes on an NHL team. He’s also 6’3, 190 lbs and scored well as a junior.

    Edmonton doesn’t need Couturier to play Boyd Gordons role, that much is accurate. They need him to play Sam Gagners role.

    Your use of Couturiers career high in goals in his rookie season, and career high in points this season (which isn’t over) while completely dismissing the situations in which he plays is cute though. You must be a disciple of the infamous DeeEssEff.

  112. Chris says:

    Glock9:
    Chris,

    Breathe man,,,,Breathe

    Just read one too many of these posts….

  113. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    Who could have seen this coming though……oh wait, most people.

    Yet some still hold Craig in high regard…..

    Again, local radio in Winnipeg interviewing a hockey writer, – understand LA wanting to make a deal. But what is the urgency in a 29th place team doing a deal now?

    Let’s get the usual round of ‘Of Course’ ,s out of the way…..Of course Craig is better than Tambelini.

    Let’s judge , each management move (without rationalizing) on its own merits.

    Welcome Mark Fraser.

    For the perennial punch line in here, here is hoping Mac T can get this organization more 6th or 7th defenceman…..or in Clifford,s case ( Hendrick’s case?) more 4th line forwards.

  114. Chris says:

    Derek: Zone Start CF%Age P/G
    39.549.6 19 0.35
    32.448.3 20 0.33
    43.148.6 21 0.47

    Shockingly as Couturiers zone start has risen from the 30 percent area his offense has grown.He’s almost at the 0.5 P/G mark as a 21 year old playing the hardest available minutes on an NHL team.He’s also 6’3, 190 lbs and scored well as a junior.

    Edmonton doesn’t need Couturier to play Boyd Gordons role, that much is accurate.They need him to play Sam Gagners role.

    Your use of Couturiers career high in goals in his rookie season, and career high in points this season (which isn’t over) while completely dismissing the situations in which he plays is cute though.You must be a disciple of the infamous DeeEssEff.

    He has the same career high in points as Boyd Gordon. I said he’s an okay player. He may wind up being as good as Shawn Horcoff. But the way he is valued on this board is totally disproportionate to his actual talent, accomplishments or value.

  115. Lowetide says:

    Acton (Pinizzotto)

  116. Derek says:

    Chris: He has the same career high in points as Boyd Gordon. Isaid he’s an okay player. He may wind up being as good as Shawn Horcoff. But the way he is valued on this board is totally disproportionate to his actual talent, accomplishments or value.

    He’s 21 years old.

  117. Derek says:

    Lowetide:
    Acton (Pinizzotto)

    That was a beauty, you’d never think Acton had that in him if you only saw his work as an NHLer.

  118. Chris says:

    Derek: He’s 21 years old.

    Projections may or may not be realized.

  119. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: I’m sure playing with Ference hasn’t helped, but he wasn’t any good with the Leafs this year and by all accounts was touched by Gord with luck last year (1069 PDO far, far, far right end of the curve)

    I don’t think playing alongside Ference has anything to do with how bad this guy has sucked. I don’t recall ever seeing a defenseman cause an offside (for his own team) while not under any duress, and this guy did it twice in one game. Those weren’t his only bad plays either. He’s not a hockey player.

  120. Derek says:

    Alright, I’ll bite one more time.

    Chris: He has the same career high in points as Boyd Gordon. Isaid he’s an okay player. He may wind up being as good as Shawn Horcoff. But the way he is valued on this board is totally disproportionate to his actual talent, accomplishments or value.

    Sean Couturier:
    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=115

    Scored 96 points twice as a junior. Has currently played 182 games in the NHL with a P/G of 0.39
    Posted 28 points in 31 games in the AHL as a 19 year old.

    Sean Horcoff:
    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=115908

    At the age of 21 Horcoff was in his final year at Michigan State where he posted 51 points in 42 games. Just for fun, in Horcoffs first 182 NHL games (2002-2003 at the age of 25) he had a P/G of 0.28. Horcoff would match the point production that Couturier is putting up in the current season at the age of 26.

    Boyd Gordon
    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=50642

    Boyd Gordons highest point total in junior was 81 points in 56 games in his fourth season (Couturier was in the NHL at this point). Boyd Gordons best season in the AHL was in 05-06 where he scored 38 points in 58 games as a 23 year old. In Boyd Gordons first 204 NHL games (the first 200 are easier results to come by) he scored 0.25 P/G and had accomplished this by the age of 25. Gordon has never enjoyed a season where he scored at the rate Couturier currently is at the NHL level.

    Chris: Projections may or may not be realized.

    Fair enough, if Couturier never progresses from this day forward at the decrepit age of 21 years old he’s about equal to Sean Horcoff at this point and better than Boyd Gordon.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvmvxAcT_Yc

  121. Ducey says:

    Woodguy:
    Ducey,

    As for Fraser, they gave up nothing. I expect that they are seeing if he might evolve into something and for depth. He is better than Grebs.

    No.

    Grebs is in the minors because he was never in NHL shape and couldn’t keep up with the play.

    For the whole 83:44 Grebs played for the Oilers they had 52.3% of the shot attempts on the ice

    For the whole 20:22 Fraser has played for the OIlers they had 37% of the shot attemps on ice.

    Ridicu-small samples, but they bear out what the eye sees.

    Grebs may be a has been, but Fraser is just plain not good.

    I’m sure playing with Ference hasn’t helped, but he wasn’t any good with the Leafs this year and by all accounts was touched by Gord with luck last year (1069 PDOfar, far, far right end of the curve)

    Unless a plague of locusts comes down and eats every professional defenseman the Oilers have, Grebs will never play for the Oilers again. The GM admitted recently he was a mistake. He is 30 yrs old and was supposed to add stability. He has not. The tiny sample size of fancy stats aside he has not been very good. He is of no use going forward.

    If you are not going to play him, have Larson with the pubis thing, are going to trade 2 of Nultz, Belov and Potter, you need some Dmen. I can see them calling up Fedun. I don’t know about Klefbom. From what I can figure he has finally been playing well for about a month. The right thing to do would be to keep him down until has a nice long track record on the farm. Maybe bring him up for a look see of 5 games, that’s about it.

    So you have Petry, Marincin, Ference, Jultz, as your top four. One of Belov or Potter, plus Fedun and Fraser, make seven.

    Fraser is not likely to be much use beyond this year, but you give him 20 games to find out for sure, and fill out the roster in the process. Considering he cost nothing to obtain, and the season is a write off, I don’t see why people care.

  122. Lowetide says:

    Horak scores, Barons win in OT.

  123. David S says:

    Lowetide: Elliotte’s 30 thoughts from early January

    5. Sam Gagner: He was not eligible for a no-trade clause when he signed his three-year extension last summer (It kicks-in next season). Craig MacTavish graciously promised to honour it this season, but as Edmonton searches for answers, it sounds like both sides believe it is time for a change, not that anyone is commenting. Should a deal happen, no doubt MacTavish will try to make it a soft landing.

    They have a $4.8M center who had his jaw broken and both sides agree it is time for a change. I’m not, and have not, suggested the Oilers trade Gagner. These are the facts presented to us, I cannot answer your question since I’m not privy to the conversation beyond what we have been presented with at this time.

    Or it might be that Gagner was the first of the young guys to say “enough”. This may very well be PR speak for “asked for a trade”. Who knows? Things keep going like this and Hall might be the next guy to say “I think we both agreed it’s time for a change.”. Endless losing tends to do that to a person.

  124. cc says:

    Ryan,

    Lowetide,

    Couldn’t agree more. I take a few hits here for my liking of N Schultz but in reality the last few games Ference has been just plain bad. Unfortunately he has a no trade clause as he would be great trade bait on the market about now, and packaged the right way there could be good value in return.

  125. cc says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Disagree, Arco brings more to the table then Gagner

  126. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Barons win 5 in a row now.

    there’s a slight chance at a the playoffs now. I wonder if we’ll see Scott add some depth AHLers.

    I think MacT might buy into the “playing/winning in the playoffs is important” angle and let Scott/Nelson push development slightly down the list of things to do.

  127. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    cc:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Disagree, Arco brings more to the table then Gagner

    In a trade? how do you figure?

    What are you responding to? exactly?

  128. jp says:

    Chris:

    Sean Couturier is not some magical pancea that can fix the Oilers.

    You’re certainly right there, but assuming he can bring some offense he’s a damn near perfect fit for the Oilers 2C.

    Derek: Zone Start CF%Age P/G
    39.549.6 19 0.35
    32.448.3 20 0.33
    43.148.6 21 0.47

    Shockingly as Couturiers zone start has risen from the 30 percent area his offense has grown.He’s almost at the 0.5 P/G mark as a 21 year old playing the hardest available minutes on an NHL team.He’s also 6’3, 190 lbs and scored well as a junior.

    Edmonton doesn’t need Couturier to play Boyd Gordons role, that much is accurate.They need him to play Sam Gagners role.

    You forgot to add that he’s played the opponents top lines too. Very impressive results for a 21 year old.

    What do you need from a 2C who can handle the toughest opposition? Basically just 40-50 pts. More than that and you’ve got Kopitar/Getzlaf/Thornton. Couturier has scored in the (projected) 30-40 pt range, at ages 18-21, in the Gordon role. Give him Gagner’s minutes and you’ve got a great bet of him hitting 45-50 pts yearly. Not clear cut, but arguably in the range of Eberle’s overall value imo.

  129. The Great One says:

    Derek: Zone Start CF%Age P/G
    39.549.6 19 0.35
    32.448.3 20 0.33
    43.148.6 21 0.47

    Shockingly as Couturiers zone start has risen from the 30 percent area his offense has grown.He’s almost at the 0.5 P/G mark as a 21 year old playing the hardest available minutes on an NHL team.He’s also 6’3, 190 lbs and scored well as a junior.

    Edmonton doesn’t need Couturier to play Boyd Gordons role, that much is accurate.They need him to play Sam Gagners role.

    Your use of Couturiers career high in goals in his rookie season, and career high in points this season (which isn’t over) while completely dismissing the situations in which he plays is cute though.You must be a disciple of the infamous DeeEssEff.

    Whoa.

    I’ve been on record for well over a year that Couturier is EXACTLY the player the Oilers need to replace Gagner.

    And, for exactly the reasons you’ve stated.

    Not too many 18 year olds can step into the NHL, play the toughs right off the bat and survive never mind thrive.

    And I think there is very little doubt that he can produce offence when given that role.

  130. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: His WOWY and most common line mates explain a lot of this.

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1217&withagainst=true&season=2010-11&sit=5v5

    It actually doesn’t look that bad. I would have expected his without score would drop a lot without Tallinder and Volchenkov (most common D partners)… but they hold up ok

    hard to read this as anything other than a mirage of small sample size. He clearly hasn’t been able to come near repeating this.

  131. Lowetide says:

    cc:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Disagree, Arco brings more to the table then Gagner

    We’ve collectively lost our minds on Gagner. This blog’s comments suggest:

    1. Gagner is making $4.8M and is a marginal talent
    2. Gagner for Clifford and Martinez is a ridiculous return.

    which is it? Perhaps we should agree on his value? Or, is it, as it would seem, impossible to gauge? Seems to me there’s going to be a lot of unhappy people when this trade goes down. Part of the reason is there’s a violent disconnect between assumed value and actual value.

  132. Lowetide says:

    Marco Roy with an assist today, 26, 7-17-24 on the season.

  133. OilClog says:

    MacT just has to find the right dance partner for Gagner. One that can look past the Kassian beheading.

    Package Ebs, Gags, Klef, & the 1st up and see what GM offers the 143 pieces the team is missing.

    Sign Hemsky!

  134. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: We’ve collectively lost our minds on Gagner. This blog’s comments suggest:

    1. Gagner is making $4.8M and is a marginal talent
    2. Gagner for Clifford and Martinez is a ridiculous return.

    which is it? Perhaps we should agree on his value? Or, is it, as it would seem, impossible to gauge? Seems to me there’s going to be a lot of unhappy people when this trade goes down. Part of the reason is there’s a violent disconnect between assumed value and actual value.

    I will take this as rhetorical.

  135. Ducey says:

    OilClog:
    MacT just has to find the right dance partner for Gagner. One that can look past the Kassian beheading.

    Package Ebs, Gags, Klef, & the 1st up and see what GM offers the 143 pieces the team is missing.

    Sign Hemsky!

    No GM is going to give you a key player for that now. They will need that player for the playoffs.

    If you are going to make that trade (and it would have to be a very nice player coming back – a top defenseman) its at the draft.

  136. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: I think MacT’s choices are:

    1. Trade Gagner in the summer, but with the knowledge that his value may be the same.
    2. Determine that Gagner is not tradeable until at least NEXT summer, when his one year NTC expires.
    3. Deals him now and signs Hemsky as the addition

    On item 1, Gagner may be at the same value, but if other components, namely our 1st rounder, have increased in value then that tide may raise all the boats and a larger deal could be open.

  137. VanOil says:

    Lowetide: We’ve collectively lost our minds on Gagner. This blog’s comments suggest:

    1. Gagner is making $4.8M and is a marginal talent
    2. Gagner for Clifford and Martinez is a ridiculous return.

    which is it? Perhaps we should agree on his value? Or, is it, as it would seem, impossible to gauge? Seems to me there’s going to be a lot of unhappy people when this trade goes down. Part of the reason is there’s a violent disconnect between assumed value and actual value.

    On a similar note: Having faith in MacT or calling him smart and suggesting it is guaranteed that the Oilers are going to get bigger and less talented by making trades like Gagner for KFC is incongruous.

    This terrible, terrible team can make us all crazy.

  138. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide:
    Combs (Fyten, Lander) 2-1 OKC. I have no idea who Combs is.

    Sean Puffy? Rapper and record producer out of NYC. Gawd yer old.

  139. Andy P says:

    Is Gags incapable of playing a 200ft game? Or does he just not want to? Or was there more to the jaw injury than we thought? Is he still playing through pain perhaps? Or has he just realized that unlike Quinn, Renney, and Krueger, he wasn’t going to win the stare down with this coach?

    I’d like to think that he has been playing through a lot of pain and will be back to his old self next season, but do we want last year’s Gags, that cheats for offence like everyone else, or a Gags that puts effort into the 200 ft game that Eakins is looking for?

  140. godot10 says:

    One tool still left in MacT’s toolbox is a compliance buyout, which could conceivably be monetized in a deal with Philadelphia.

    i.e. A deadline deal with Philly is likely to contain Luke Schenn. This would give the Oilers 15 games to look at him, and if it is awful, use the remaining buyout on him this summer. That compliance buyout is a pretty valuable trade facilitator.

    crazy totally unfounded brainstorming speculation mode ON;

    Yakupov (or maybe Perron)
    One of Nick Schultz or Anton Belov
    Hemsky

    for

    Sean Couturier, Jacob Voracek, and Luke Schenn.

  141. Lowetide says:

    cabbiesmacker: Sean Puffy? Rapper and record producer out of NYC. Gawd yer old.

    Yes, I am. However, I’ll gladly take Ernie Combs over Puffy, combover or the others.

  142. auzy11 says:

    i have said and will say again they have to trade EBS to get any value package with draft pick get a real player,enough of the picks we have had enough of this backwards movement.

  143. Halfwise says:

    Lowetide: Yes, I am. However, I’ll gladly take Ernie Combs over Puffy, combover or the others.

    True fact: a Japanese every day term for “combover” is “bar code hair”.

  144. auzy11 says:

    Its easy to look at one guy one the team and say he is not carrying hi weight,what do you say about the other 20 losers?

  145. auzy11 says:

    And a coach that will never turn this around,,,EVER

  146. Hammers says:

    Lowetide: We’ve collectively lost our minds on Gagner. This blog’s comments suggest:

    1. Gagner is making $4.8M and is a marginal talent
    2. Gagner for Clifford and Martinez is a ridiculous return.

    which is it? Perhaps we should agree on his value? Or, is it, as it would seem, impossible to gauge? Seems to me there’s going to be a lot of unhappy people when this trade goes down. Part of the reason is there’s a violent disconnect between assumed value and actual value.

    OK so agree on his value . What is it . A $ 4.8 mill player with 6 years experience who has averaged 50+ points a year , only mid 20′s , had an 8 point game , had a terrible injury but has been known to have the odd fight in the past . Stands up for his teamates . Leans way to much to offence than defence . . Take his name out of it and that Might sound like a player the Oilers or any team could use ,especially if offense is required . The disconnect LT is Oiler fans Expectations not what he actually brings . I have been one of the fans saying time for a trade but sometimes you sit back, re-evaluate and need to say WAIT A Minute . I’m OK with McT making this decision .

  147. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide: Yes, I am. However, I’ll gladly take Ernie Combs over Puffy, combover or the others.

    Ahem. Mr Dressup was Ernie Coombs. Not Combs.

    Have to teach you everything man.

    Still good to see P Diddy rack up an assist for OKC. Dude is talented.

  148. cabbiesmacker says:

    Hammers: OK so agree on his value . What is it . A $ 4.8 mill player with 6 years experience who has averaged 50+ points a year ,

    Ah if only Gagner DID average 50 pts per season instead of never even hitting that milestone. Closer to 44 I believe and thats being nice and leaving this years disaster out of the equation.

    In fairness he probably would have hit 50 last year over an 82 game schedule if he’d stayed healthy.

  149. Lowetide says:

    Hammers: OK so agree on his value . What is it . A $ 4.8 mill player with 6 years experience who has averaged 50+ points a year , only mid 20′s , had an 8 point game , had a terrible injury but has been known to have the odd fight in the past . Stands up for his teamates . Leans way to much to offence than defence . . Take his name out of it and that Might sound like a player the Oilers or any team could use ,especially if offense is required . The disconnect LT is Oiler fans Expectations not what he actually brings . I have been one of the fans saying time for a trade but sometimes you sit back, re-evaluate and need to say WAIT A Minute . I’m OK with McT making this decision .

    Me too. I’d much rather have Clifford and Martinez than Luke Schenn, as is being discussed in some circles.

  150. Marc says:

    Lowetide: they were highly skilled, inexperienced and fitted with atrocious blue..

    True. But it doesn’t necessarily follow that becoming a bit less skilled and a bit more physical is a bad thing for the Oilers.

    Successful teams over the last decade or so have been both skilled and physical. Some have been a bit more skilled. Some have been a bit more physical. But all have had a healthy dose of both.

    I think it’s fair to say that the current edition of the Oilers is nearing the minimum amount of skill, at least at forward, needed to be a Cup contender. That’s not to say that more skill is a bad thing, or shouldn’t be welcomed, but the horses are probably there. Put another way, teams have made it to the final with less at forward than these Oilers have. Both teams in the 2006 final for example.

    On the other hand, I can’t think of any successful team that is designed like the current Oilers team in terms of physicality ie. most of the players that play a remotely physical game are so lacking in talent that they can’t (or shouldn’t) be on the ice for much of the game.

    Judging by the example of every other successful team in recent years, the Oilers do need to get more physical if they want to contend. And they probably can afford to sacrifice a bit of skill to get there – their key forwards are young and mostly still likely to improve, but they’re already comfortably in the middle of the pack in terms of team goals for.

    The important thing, surely, is making sure that the physicality they add can actually play. If they trade skill for the physicality like they currently have, then they’re just flushing that skill down the toilet. But trading a bit of skill for physical players who are less skilled but can play hockey wouldn’t be a bad thing.

  151. VanOil says:

    My less than bold 2014-15 Oilers line up: (How they were obtained)

    Hall-RNH-Yak
    Perron-Brock Nelson(Gagner)-Eberle
    Jagr(UFA)-Gordon-Hemsky
    Hendricks-Lander-Pitlick
    Gadzook

    Kuilkov(draft pick trade down)-Schultz
    Marincin-Petry
    Belov-Ference
    Fedun

    Scrivens
    Mid Priced UFA

    Kelfbom should take Belovs job before next years trade deadline or even better out of camp. Draft the best Center available with the trade down pick and hope he can take Jagrs role the following season. Schultz may not be a first pairing guy (despite his current minutes) but with a partner like Kulikov it might not be a total disaster.

    This team will never happen because it lacks knuckle dragers on every line. But it could play 8th in the west caliber hockey if they stay reasonably healthy and got some decent goal tending because they should have the puck all the time on the top 3 lines. It also does not mortgage the future or lock in long term over pay contracts for declining assets other than Ferrence and Hendricks already on the books.

    Nurse and some of the Jr/Russian coke machines should be knocking on the door for the following year. Germat-Musil-Simpson over ripening in the AHL making a push for the NHL call up duty at 22-23 years old.

  152. jp says:

    cabbiesmacker: Ah if only Gagner DID average 50 pts per season instead of never even hitting that milestone. Closer to 44 I believe and thats being nice and leaving this years disaster out of the equation.

    In fairness he probably would have hit 50 last year over an 82 game schedule if he’d stayed healthy.

    Gagner has a career per 82 GP line of 17-33-50. Some, myself included would call that a 50 point player, but obviously his actual career high is 49 pts.

    His actual per season averages are 65.9 GP and 40.2 pts (including the lockout and this partial season).

    If you look at his first 5 seasons (where the NHL played 82 GP) his average line is 73-15-29-44. (Still a 49.4 pts/82 average)

    Combining this years disaster with last years potential career year you get a per 82 line of 82-17-36-54. So no need to be nice with leaving out this year.

    He can score, too bad he can’t/won’t play D.

  153. Glock9 says:

    Gags does seem like he doesn’t care a whole lot. Gotta wonder if has anything to do with wanting to get away from EEkins.

    Don’t think any trades will do much until we get an nhl caliber coach

  154. jp says:

    RexLibris: On item 1, Gagner may be at the same value, but if other components, namely our 1st rounder, have increased in value then that tide may raise all the boats and a larger deal could be open.

    Also, Gagner’s value COULD be the same, but there’s a far greater chance it goes up than it goes down between now and the draft. Holding the asset if the return isn’t fair (whatever that is) is the way to go.

    And if Gagner really is wanting/willing to move, the NTC that kicks in July 1st is meaningless, so there’s no rush.

  155. Lowetide says:

    Glock9:
    Gags does seem like he doesn’t care a whole lot.Gotta wonder if has anything to do with wanting to get away from EEkins.

    Don’t think any trades will do much until we get an nhl caliber coach

    There’s no way for any of us to know this. None.

  156. Glock9 says:

    Lowetide,

    True,,,,very true………

    Must agree with JP on one point for sure- Gags value will not go down in the near future, I believe it will go up.

  157. spoiler says:

    G Money: Someone coined this on a previous thread (and I would give credit if I could remember who), but it is so spot on it deserves repeating. This is the Oilers’ FFFFS pairing. As in … Ference and Fraser FFS.

    ;-)

  158. Lowetide says:

    spoiler: ;-)

    Well, that’s gold Spoiler. GOLD!

  159. Pouzar says:

    VanOil:
    Kelfbom-Musil look dominant at the AHL level tonight.

    Van….don’t tease me.

  160. Pouzar says:

    LT,

    2. Gagner for Clifford and Martinez is a ridiculous return. PLUS retaining salary. PLUS another roster player.

  161. HiddenDarts says:

    I would say Clifford and Martinez, plus maybe a KHL-type prospect will do it. Less than 2 million retained salary is great.

    Martinez is actually pretty good. Like a more responsible, albeit less flashy Muzzin.

    Muzzin is one of Sutter’s faves. No way they let him go.

    Martinez, on the other hand, is typically healthy scratched while Muzzin does his thing. That doesn’t mean he’s not as good (he is), but it does mean the coach likes Muzzin more.

  162. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar:
    LT,

    2. Gagner for Clifford and Martinez is a ridiculous return.PLUS retaining salary. PLUS another roster player.

    Again, going back some time, we know the Oilers value Clifford. Martinez is a young defenseman who has played in the NHL and may have a productive future. If you don’t like those names, choose another. Sam Gagner for Luke Schenn. Is that better? It DOES NOT change this fact: the Oilers aren’t getting full value for 89.

  163. Ivan says:

    Chris,

    I have to agree. Mancrush = foolish.

  164. auzy11 says:

    Here we go if the Oilers do not make a substansial move at the trade dead line i fear it will be wait,wait ,wait,but then again it might be smarter to wait till draft day. There are teams out there that covet a guy like eberle,and would pay dearly to get him,i feel he is the one the oilers should be thinking of trading while the price for him is very very high,Gags,can be moved at a later time,you have to start changing this bunch,Eberle will bring a huge return,and its time now,we have waited long enough.

  165. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: Well, that’s gold Spoiler. GOLD!

    Thank you, sir.

    Thoughts on Gagner, as that seems foremost on everyone’s mind today…

    I think it Is unlikely that Gagner gets traded at the deadline. But I do think MacT is damn curious to find out what the other GMs are willing to pay. If one of them throws enough chips in the pot, then maybe something gets done.

    I don’t think MacT will make a move unless he gets paid what he wants. I don’t think that’s Clifford and Martinez for Gagner, half his salary and Pitlick.. And I think if that’s the most Lombardi will pay, no deal gets done with LA.

    There’s no point in waiting till the draft, when UFA frenzy offers solutions to GM’s roster problems at no cost but cap hit, unless the 1st rounder is involved. And that makes me very nervous. If MacT is willing to offer the 1st and Gagner, he had better be sure he is going to get paid in the currency he needs.

  166. russ99 says:

    Don’t see the need to dump Ference, he’s just being played out of place, and is too often cleaning up for the other guy on his pairing.

    Put him on the 3rd pairing with a steady checker and he’s solid. Cap’s going way up, so salary isn’t such a anchor as it would be in years past.

  167. speeds says:

    russ99:
    Don’t see the need to dump Ference, he’s just being played out of place, and is too often cleaning up for the other guy on his pairing.

    Put him on the 3rd pairing with a steady checker and he’s solid. Cap’s going way up, so salary isn’t such a anchor as it would be in years past.

    The salary is only part of it, although they can find a cheaper 3rd pair D, and save say 1.5M there to go towards addressing other needs.

    Ideally, they’d still probably want to have that 3rd pairing spot over the next year or two for Marincin/Nurse/Klefbom.

    So you can either play Ference in the 2nd pair or put one (or more) of the rookies ahead of Ference on the depth chart if you want to leave Ference on the 3rd pair. Neither is particularly appealing if you are looking to notable improve the D. If the young D can handle that, great, but it’s asking a lot.

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