THE TIME WARP

Back in 2010, the Edmonton Oilers traded Riley Nash on the draft floor. The former first round pick was sent away to Carolina for the 46th overall selection in the 2010 entry draft—Martin Marincin.

MARTIN MARINCIN PLAYER CARD marincin player card feb 19

Here’s the Marincin player card so far this season. He’s a rookie in the NHL progressed nicely and arrived in the window (entry-level deal) we might expect him to based on draft pedigree. He’s played better than we thought, but that isn’t an established level of ability. If Marincin plays the next two seasons at his current level, this will be remembered as an outstanding trade for the Oilers. He’s a player we liked from the start.

RILEY NASH PLAYER CARD

riley nash player cardNash was drafted in 2007, the Oilers couldn’t sign him and they made the trade in 2010. I was not amused at the deal on first blush. Nash spent years at Cornell and of course we followed him closely. Once traded to Carolina, we (I) lost track. Nash arrived in the NHL in 2011-12 (for a cuppa) and then had most of the lockout season as his rookie year. This season? He’s having a nice year by anyone’s standards.

I think the pertinent items are:

  • both are on track for solid NHL careers
  • both play important positions
  • Nash was drafted three years before Marincin and arrived one season before him in the show.

I know it’s too soon to do this, but what the hell? Who won this deal?

 

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61 Responses to "THE TIME WARP"

  1. spoiler says:

    Tough call on the win right now, but Marincin’s earlier arrival indicates a higher ceiling.

  2. spoiler says:

    I also suspect Marincin is being used in a more difficult role.

  3. Younger Oil says:

    Good Ol’ Stu turned a terrible Tambo trade into a win IMO.

  4. Woodguy says:

    Its just a jump to the left

  5. Ryan says:

    if we use the Cogliano trade as a benchmark, can we therefore call this one a win? :)

  6. VanOil says:

    It take two Tango and a degree in idiocy to run Argentina.

    Riley Nash did not want to sign in Edmonton so getting Marincin for a car you could not insure or put fuel in is a good deal. Oilers won with this transaction, this does not mean Carolina also did not win but we won more.

    Some times we forget it is not all the clubs decision. As Oiler fans we like to tease Vancouver about the devil spawn Kassian – Hodgson trade.

    By stat, fancy stat and eye Cody Hodgson is a better player than Zack Kassian. But Hodgson did not want to be in Vancouver. A small part of this could have been the clubs fault with poor communications and support during his post draft injuries but most of it was the player. Hodgson did not want to be a 3d line center. He will never be a better center than Sedin or Kessler so he had to move. Kassian does not have to pan out as a top 6 player like Hodgson is in Buffalo, he just needs to be at least a top 9 player which is all Hodgson would have ever been in Vancouver. He also pisses off other teams, unlike Hodgson who pissed off his own team.

    Basically what I am saying is some times employees quit or do a bad job and it is not managements fault. Moving on and getting any kind of decent replacement from such an employee is a win.

  7. Woodguy says:

    He’s a player we liked from the start.

    From the link:

    Steve Tambellini: “He’s a big man, tall and lanky. I guess the poise he showed at the WJ tournament, I thought he was better there than what he was showing at the U-18

    Poise.

  8. Woodguy says:

    And then a step to the right.

  9. VanOil says:

    When do the Oilers start practicing again, other teams seem to be back at it?

  10. VanOil says:

    I give in the song WG is dancing to is way cooler than the Tango I referenced.

  11. russ99 says:

    VanOil,

    There’s more to that story.

    Nash wanted to play for Cornell his 3rd season there because he wanted to graduate with an Ivy League education and play with his brother.

    The Oilers were dead set against that. He lost face in the org for not following their path, much like Omark going to the KHL.

    So needless to say, Nash wasn’t going to sign with an organization that wouldn’t give him a fair shake because he didn’t do what they wanted, for to the player was pretty important reasons. So we got a pretty solid piece for essentially an unsignable player, albeit one we made unsignable…

    And the kid made it to the show anyway, so it’s a happy ending for all involved.

  12. Lowetide says:

    VanOil:
    When do the Oilers start practicing again, other teams seem to be back at it?

    They were on the ice late this afternoon, I believe.

  13. sliderule says:

    Nash was the first example of the Stu the not making a pick based on his familiarity with the pick not on whether he was the better.
    In making this pick out of a tier 2 junior league he passed up Paciorretty and Perron who were taken within two picks.Perron had a great playoff and Memorial cup run yet was passed over
    Somehow we were able to turn a first round pick into a second rounder who is going to turn out.

    This all sounds like more luck than good drafting.

  14. theres oil in virginia says:

    The trade that sent Nash away isn’t the one the Oilers bungled. As VanOil said above, they got a decent return on a guy they would never be able to sign. The royal fuck-up occurred before they drafted Nash in the first place. #30 + #36 to go to #21 and sign this guy!? Wow.

    LT, you should have referenced your 2007 draft day article. Money quote:

    The draft up to this point was somewhat controversial but you could defend the decisions. However, by paying a supreme price (30+36) and trading up for a future role player in Riley Nash I believe the Oilers wasted assets that should cost someone their job.

    You were also referenced in a 2012 review of the Nash pick at COH by Bruce McCurdy.

  15. theres oil in virginia says:

    sliderule: Nash was the first example of the Stu the not making a pick based on his familiarity with the pick not on whether he was the better.

    Stu didn’t make the pick.

    LT, the timer on the edit tool seems to be missing. It used to count down the 5 minutes. Not a problem per say, just an observation.

  16. sliderule says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Stu was the dub scout.

    KP in moving up for a player had to believe this was something big.As a head scout he would have only seen him two or three times it had to be on Stu the not recomendation .

    It ultimately was KPs and Lowe’s responsibility but Stu the not keeps making picks from that BC junior league that baffle me.

  17. coolwasabi says:

    Not sure about Nash vs. Marincin. The jury’s still out on that one.
    But the Oilers did well with a bad situation. Nash did not want to be an Oiler. Never did. The Oilers did well to turn him into a useful piece.

  18. 106 and 106 says:

    We need the defence, they need a good plugger – can this be a win-win?

  19. Old School G says:

    I appreciate the style of game Nash plays. Marincin should turn out to be a pretty good top 4 guy. Nash, a 3/4 C, PK specialist. I like them both, need them both to win the big games. I am, at the end of the day pretty biased, we win, final answer.

  20. sliderule says:

    Old School G,

    Unless Marincin turns out to be better than Pacioretty or Perron we lose.

  21. The Great One says:

    sliderule:
    Old School G,

    Unless Marincin turns out to be better than Pacioretty or Perron we lose.

    Or Brendan Smith and PK Subban….among others.

  22. theres oil in virginia says:

    sliderule:
    theres oil in virginia,

    Stu was the dub scout.

    KP in moving up for a player had to believe this was something big.As a head scout hewould have only seen him two or three times it had to be on Stu the not recomendation .

    It ultimately was KPs and Lowe’s responsibility but Stu the not keeps making picks from that BC junior league that baffle me.

    I think scouts always value “their man” highly. It’s up to the GM, with recommendations from the head scout, to make these decisions regarding trading up. The head scout should have been able to see the entire lay of the land (the prospect pool) with more clarity. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but I doubt that a lower level scout is going to push the head scout and GM into making that kind of trade. I’m guessing it was more along the lines of KP seeing all the info from various scouts and thinking that Nash was somehow a cut above the rest.

    I don’t think you can lay the “30+36 for 21″ trade at Stu’s feet.

  23. Pouzar says:

    What’s the big deal about Riley Nash? I don’t get it.
    Great that he’s rockin the little blue bubble but he is in the Sheltered quadrant.

    Martin the Martian is trending towards some pretty lofty stuff
    with a beachball-like Blue bubble in the shutdown quadrant on the 29th place team in the NHL.

    Little early to declare winners but it’s not even a question who I would rather have.

  24. Woodguy says:

    Put your hands on your hips.

  25. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    theres oil in virginia,

    Stu was the dub scout.

    KP in moving up for a player had to believe this was something big.As a head scout hewould have only seen him two or three times it had to be on Stu the not recomendation .

    It ultimately was KPs and Lowe’s responsibility but Stu the not keeps making picks from that BC junior league that baffle me.

    I remember Stu being mainly WHL.

    Don’t remember him scouting NCAA in the East.

  26. The Great One says:

    Woodguy:
    Put your hands on your hips.

    Is this the hokey-pokey AGAIN?

  27. Woodguy says:

    Ben and Jen Scrivens are pretty awesome:

    https://vine.co/v/MZjejO0zvXX

  28. Woodguy says:

    The Great One: Is this the hokey-pokey AGAIN?

    You bring your knees in tight.

  29. sliderule says:

    Woodguy,

    Since 2007 including Nash the oilers have picked five players from BCJL.

    I guess it’s a coincidence that Stu the not gets to see that league a lot on Vernon.

  30. VanOil says:

    Off topic but should Canada man mark Kessel? The rest of the Yanks, other than the goalie, don’t scare me much.

    If so which Canadian forward is up for the Esa Tikkanen role? Leave the Defense to score the goals.

    I vote they dress Subban as a rover with the only job to shadow Kessel. I do believe there is some existing animosity there an PK is strong enough, fast enough and mouthy enough to get his goat.

  31. nelson88 says:

    Woodguy:
    Ben and Jen Scrivens are pretty awesome:

    https://vine.co/v/MZjejO0zvXX

    good stuff!

  32. nelson88 says:

    Moroz with an assist and another 5 penalty minutes.

  33. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: I remember Stu being mainly WHL.

    Don’t remember him scouting NCAA in the East.

    Nash came out of the BCJHL.

  34. Younger Oil says:

    I just noticed, since the start of the New Year, Nurse has gotten 10 points in 20 games, while he was on a point per game pace before that. Does anyone know if he has actually been playing poorer/regressing lately?

  35. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    Woodguy,

    Since 2007 including Nash the oilers have picked five players from BCJL.

    I guess it’s a coincidence that Stu the not gets to see that league a lot on Vernon.

    Right, BCHL.

    Wish he would have clued in on Benn.

  36. gr8one says:

    Speaking of the 2007 draft, Jamie Benn’s name two spots behind Milan Kytnar kind of stands out too.

    I don’t mean this as a knock against the scouting staff because every other team passed on Benn through several rounds but man looking back at that draft to see names still on the board after our selections is crazy.

    It really makes me wonder what makes these players though, kind of the genetics vs environment argument. If Couture or McDonagh for examples had of been drafted instead of Gagner would they have turned into the players they are now or would this organization have screwed them up?

  37. sliderule says:

    Woodguy: Right, BCHL.

    Wish he would have clued in on Benn.

    The sad thig and a reflection of oiler scouting is that Benn was taken in the 5th round of that same 2007 draft.

  38. book¡je says:

    I know it’s too soon to do this, but what the hell? Who won this deal?

    I think it’s pretty clear who won – Riley Nash.

  39. sliderule says:

    If the oilers fall out of top three in draft would they pick Draisatl ,Ritchie or Virtainen.

    Virtanen is a speed demon who was fastest in testing at prospect. He is 6-1 and 210 and the couple of times I have seen him he is aggressive and mean. He has just about a point a game and should end up with well over forty goals.
    He is also one of youngest in draft with an august birthdate.

  40. Lowetide says:

    Chase with an assist 59, 31-41-72
    Houck with 3 A’s 59, 28-20-48
    Moroz with 1A 58, 31-27-58

  41. VanOil says:

    Lowetide:
    http://oilersnation.com/2014/2/19/i-can-see-summer-from-here

    Predictions!

    Like the signings, Like the trades. Your big acquisitions of Coburn, Couturier are very good. I would prefer Kulikov and Nelson. Kulikov is probably a better Dman Couturier is probably a better Center.

    Either way we are both dreaming of reasonably priced skill. I expect expensive truculence, grit and eye glow is more likely what we end up with.

    Other than shipping out N.Schultz, Potter, Jones and Belov for picks I don’t see any need to ad at the deadline. Scraping our way out of a great draft pick seems to be a waste of a perfectly awful season.

  42. sliderule says:

    Future oiler Sam Reinhart with a goal and two assists.

  43. VanOil says:

    I am not sure how Chase, who will likely be back in the WHL next season, can possibly top this season. But man do I wish him good health and good luck bringing his game to the pro’s.

  44. Woodguy says:

    sliderule: The sad thig and a reflection of oiler scouting is that Benn was taken in the 5th round of that same 2007 draft.

    Everyone missed on Benn.

    Even Dallas 4 times.

    Would have been a nice one.

  45. Woodguy says:

    But its the pelvic thrust.

  46. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    http://oilersnation.com/2014/2/19/i-can-see-summer-from-here

    Predictions!

    I can’t say that anything there looks out of place. One exception, and it is minor, is that I think Detroit might show interest in Potter on account of the Renney connection and his game is a fit with the Detroit way of defending.

    Honka is interesting. RHD who fits the Eakins’ list of skills almost to a tee.

  47. Clay says:

    Just as a bit of a curiosity, the acquisition of Marincin traces back to the Pronger *spits* deal. For those keeping score, Pronger *spits* (along with some draft picks along the way and Jason Smith) has become Eberle, Marincin, Horak, Brossoit, and Fraser.

    Even more interesting, if you take the blueline from 2006 G7 SCF, that being Pronger *spits*, Smith, Spacek, Staios, Tarnstrom, and Greene, all that we’re left with for assets is the five mentioned above, plus Curtis Hamilton, Travis Ewanyk, and Brandon Davidson.

    That’s trending, um, not in the right direction.

  48. Woodguy says:

    That really drives you insay-yah-yah-yah-ane.

  49. PhrankLee says:

    book¡je:
    I know it’s too soon to do this, but what the hell? Who won this deal?

    I think it’s pretty clear who won – Riley Nash.

    I agree with this assessment. I’m not informed well enough to be an insider but a couple of people I know in the hockey world from Oakville, Ontario say that most players will do almost anything to scuttle a deal sending them to Edmonton. Hard to keep NHL players when NHL players dont want to come.

  50. nelson88 says:

    Crap luck for Tavares and the Islanders.

  51. book¡je says:

    Woodguy:
    That really drives you insay-yah-yah-yah-ane.

    Well done!

  52. anonymous says:

    Lowetide:
    http://oilersnation.com/2014/2/19/i-can-see-summer-from-here

    Predictions!

    Like that lineup, if Scriven and Reimer can repeat their performance with the leafs and Marlies over the last couple years they’ll be a good tandem and shouldn’t break the bank.

    Hopefully Simpson is as good as you think. It’s seems like forever since the oil have had prospects come through outside the first round. Along with Marincin it would be like Christmas.

  53. DeadmanWaking says:

    Clay: all that we’re left with for assets is the five mentioned above, plus Curtis Hamilton, Travis Ewanyk, and Brandon Davidson

    That’s a heck of a lot more than Detroit wrangled in exchange for Lidström–if you exclude the four cups, the stability, the credibility, the celebrations, and the fame.

    You know what’s even better than magic beans? Perpetual motion magic beans! This bean stalk doesn’t grow like a normal plant. It corkscrews eternally onward and upward like the blue marble’s spinach spermtail.

    We just need to find a 20,000-foot-deep mud-filled rice paddy for the counter-rotating root system, then we can go off in pursuit of that glorious, luminous, legendary moon that’s been sadly missed ever since that unfortunate British Deutrolium incident portrayed in Space 1999.

    I admit I was skeptical when the Voynich manuscript turned out to be titled “Star Chase” before concerning itself entirely with Aztec botany from start to finish. How the Aztecs knew about the interstellar biological ether is hard to fathom. Midi-chlorians!

    Fortunately, the Aztec astro-plants are well adapted to keep us warm by feeding on the two-trillion barrels of oil preserved in the earth’s crust for nearly a billion years for just such an occasion. Every detail fits together as good prophecy should: all that carbon ends up sequestered in a downy cocoon wrapped around the planet a mile up and two miles thick, after setting down the root system for rapid initial growth phase in the Middle East to exploit the juicy liquid-lunch toddler tit. Man, those gnarly, incestuous Aztec body-artists thought of everything. Makes the ancient Greeks look like a bunch of Hillbillies by comparison.

    Seriously, they did all that, and what do we have now to show for the Model T Ford?

    A whole lot of backseat procreation, a few trips to the moon we no longer have (big whup), and a map of the human genome we barely bother to read, because we’re too busy trying to crack that cryptic passage about which volcanic formation is going to liquify half of a small continent into a 20,000-foot-deep mud-filled rice paddy so we can finally sprout our precious spinach spermstalk of marbelous motility–enabling us to finally jet off into the cosmos to finally recover our god-like Grinch of Green Cheese who visited malefaction upon any who dared to malefact against us.

    One thing. Which way did he go?

    Hopefully Sulu has this figured out when he boards the Chariot of the Gauze to ascend to his post at the left hand of the big fluffy chair on the bridge of the planet’s warm, white, eider-down cocoon.

    Spock: The Kilgorians are holding position at backside prime, captain.

    Captain: Status, Mr Scott?

    Scotty: Yucca Mountain locked, loaded and fully pressurised–too much deutroleum captain, she canna take the strain.

    Captain: Nevermind. Engage.

    Sulu: Aye, captain.

    Bill Kilgore: Hand on your boards, boys, this is the going to be the biggest wave of the third galactic epoch. Three miles up in the first blast of acceleration, then five miles down as acceleration fades.

    Dramatic pause.

    Thirty men in clad in black carbon-fiber neoprene with Vader-gill scuba masks dangling loosely around their necks bob on small ripples in the middle of a giant ocean.

    The first infrasonic croak of solar exodus flits over the lapping swell, almost imperceptibly.

    Bill Kilgore: We’re going to smell the soggy bottom, boys! I love the smell of fulgi in the morning. Last man to keel bottom is a rotten egg!

    ***

    The soggy sea-bottom fulgi scraped off Kilgore’s surfboard rudder was later christened Methanocalderacoccus terrasloscii

    Kilgore surfs with Cthulhu now.

    “Greetings, earthling! Down here, my name is ‘Davy’. Just Davy. I’ve been waiting. Your methods are unsound. But–I see some real genius in your flying, Kilgore, and I like your sound.

    Sing it for me and you shall live.

    Seven soggy sea-bottom buoys were quickly scavenged to fabricate thirty improvised comb harps, but the fulgean fumes caused horrible chapping of the lips and no-one had any wax pomade.

    Kilgore: Well, ain’t this place a geographical oddity. Two miles down from everywhere!

    Until the oceans return.

    ****

    male + faction = bad performance

    In Middle English it meant impotence. Later it shifted to mean an evil act.

    From The Urban Dictionary of Middle English. Less buggery. More decay. Seventeen unique words just to cover every hue (and cry) on the speculum of fistulitic discharge.

  54. DeadmanWaking says:

    No count-down timer? Damn. Nearly missed my wave.

  55. FastOil says:

    sliderule:
    Old School G,

    Unless Marincin turns out to be better than Pacioretty or Perron we lose.

    Bingo. Marincin seems like a very good player, but what they did start to finish regarding Nash was Mickey Mouse. I don’t think you enter the pantheon of greats when you give up a pick for a guy nobody is going to draft at least until several rounds after the pick you lost.

  56. DeadmanWaking says:

    -extra “finally”
    + Cthulhu close quote

    Please, Mr Lowetide, bring back my Downie timer!

  57. Lowetide says:

    DeadmanWaking:
    -extra “finally”
    + Cthulhu close quote

    Please, Mr Lowetide, bring back my Downie timer!

    Try now.

  58. Woodguy says:

    book¡je: Well done!

    Let’s do the Time Warp again!

  59. theres oil in virginia says:

    DeadmanWaking: Please, Mr Lowetide, bring back my Downie timer!

    Well, it is a time warp, after all.

  60. striatic says:

    VanOil: If so which Canadian forward is up for the Esa Tikkanen role?

    Bergeron.

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