TRUE VALUE

If the Oilers are serious about trading guys like Hemsky at the deadline for immediate help, can we expect more Matt Hendricks? Or is there a useful young player—perhaps struggling a little this year—who might shake loose?

rnh22

INTERNAL OPTIONS FOR 2014-15 CENTER ICE

  • Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: Sublime talent. I can’t wait to see his next game, and he’s 20.
  • Boyd Gordon: A wonderful addition to this team, he’s stellar.
  • Anton Lander: Tearing up the blacktop in OKC, you’d have to think he will get a roster spot or a trade in the coming months.
  • Mark Arcobello: Despite dozens of healthy scratches, he’s a good player. Edmonton has something here.
  • Taylor Hall: Listed here because it’s very unlikely. However, you can see why they think about it. Suspect they won’t try again.
  • Sam Gagner: There’s always a chance they don’t trade him and he returns for his eighth (!!!!!) season.
  • Ryan Smyth: Crazy as it sounds, he’s been Eakins choice for some time now on the 4line.
  • Matt Hendricks: He has played center before.

JOAKIM ANDERSSON PLAYING CARD

andersson

Detroit isn’t going to trade Joakim Andersson for Hemsky, but I think this is the kind of player they should be looking for in  a trade. Effective in the dot, he’s also a fine penalty killer and a consistent two-way type. His offense may be shy, but the Oilers have plenty of firepower. Perhaps there’s a bigger deal available? I just don’t like the idea of trading Hemsky for Robert Nilsson.

Is a top 4C of Nuge, Andersson, Gordon and Lander strong enough? I don’t know, but you’re replacing Gagner’s points with Andersson’s defensive acumen and it should result in an improved shot differential and better GAA. Andersson is struggling some this season but his overall career track is impressive. Detroit knows how to develop hockey players, that’s for sure. He’s playing with Tatar and Drew Miller this season.

 LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

hurdle gifHockey is back! Sure it’s Buffalo-Carolina but who cares? It’s got us jumping for joy! This morning at 10 on TSN 1260 we’ll hit the ground running and jump through many hurd…oh hell here’s the show:

  • Bruce McCurdy, Cult of Hockey. Olympics, Oilers, trade deadline, Oil Kings. We’ll be busy!
  • Neal Livingston, Tend the Farm. I count 5 reasonable callups. How many does Neal have?
  • Scott Cullen, TSN. We’ll talk Olympics and deadline, and maybe squeeze some baseball in too.
  • Rob Vollman, Bleacher Report and HockeyAbstract. Best deadline value by position, and where do Hemsky and Smyth fit in. I think you’ll be surprised.

10-1260 text, twitter @Lowetide_. See you on the radio!

 

 

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68 Responses to "TRUE VALUE"

  1. Pouzar says:

    Solid lineup of guests…can’t wait.

    Drill Neal about Klef please :)

  2. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Is 2C a little high for Andersson? I would have pegged him as a 3C.

    That said, I like the player a lot. I think Hemsky would a be a fair trade. The problem isn’t so much value as timeline… as you mention no playoff team is going to shed quality players.

    I know people want players… but it makes more sense to me to work the market and grab picks at the deadline and flip them for players at the draft.

    Get a late first for Hemsky and either trade the Oilers pick of that elusive top pairing D and use the later pick on the future, or keep the Oilers pick and trade the later pick on another roster hole.

  3. Hammers says:

    Get good players , keep good players but your right I think . Accept the fact Hemsky will go this time and I hope it’s to a team that truly has a shot . Earlier this month it was Gags for Clifford but why not Hemsky ???? Also would like to see Smyth get a shot with a cup bound team .

  4. Ducey says:

    Good to see LT has come around to trading Hemsky.

    I think they get the best value if they trade him for someone taken in last years draft. It was the strongest draft in quite a while and a contender won’t be relying on any of these players just yet.

    Plus you have an extra year of information on them and they are closer to the show.

  5. Hammers says:

    See Matheson is on his rant again for Shea but I guess he doesn’t realize it would take Hall , #1 pick plus Klefbom . Reality sucks and someone should tell Matheson to retire , actually Jones as well .

  6. Pouzar says:

    Hammers:
    See Matheson is on his rant again for Shea but I guess he doesn’t realize it would take Hall , #1 pick plus Klefbom. Reality sucks and someone should tell Matheson to retire , actually Jones as well .

    I disagree that Hall needs to be included. Or Nuge.

  7. gcw_rocks says:

    Wingingitinmotown had this to say about Andersson:

    “Unfortunately, this preview has to end on a bombshell. Out of all the possible forwards that the Red Wings have on their crop for this year, Andersson is probably the one with the lowest upside and probably will not be hanging around the scene for an overly extended period of time. With that being said, Andersson is essentially the glue to the two hubcaps on either side of him, and because of injuries and a lack of “quality” depth, he will be playing in Detroit.”

    Not sure why Hemsky wouldn’t get you a player with that description.

  8. zatch says:

    Is Eberle, EDM 1st (if top 3), One of the 2nd tier D prospects (Not Klef , Nurse)for Weber and their 1st remotely realistic? What if it WAS Klef as the prospect. Would that be worth it?

  9. Lowetide says:

    Ducey:
    Good to see LT has come around to trading Hemsky.

    I think they get the best value if they trade him for someone taken in last years draft.It was the strongest draft in quite a while and a contender won’t be relying on any of these players just yet.

    Plus you have an extra year of information on them and they are closer to the show.

    I am NOT in favor of trading Hemsky. At all.

  10. Pouzar says:

    zatch:
    Is Eberle, EDM 1st (if top 3), One of the 2nd tier D prospects (Not Klef , Nurse)for Weber and their 1stremotely realistic? What if it WAS Klef as the prospect. Would that be worth it?

    I think at the Draft table that deal gets their attention (excluding their 1st pick). JMO.

  11. OilClog says:

    Lowetide: I am NOT in favor of trading Hemsky. At all.

    We’re going to lose this trade everyday, every universe. In a few years everyone in the MSM not Edmonton will be raving about Ales’s two way play and how he can dangle in a phone booth. Fuck

  12. book¡je says:

    Lowetide: I am NOT in favor of trading Hemsky. At all.

    Does that change if Hemsky has indicated that he is not willing to re-sign here?

  13. book¡je says:

    OilClog: We’re going to lose this trade everyday, every universe. In a few years everyone in the MSM not Edmonton will be raving about Ales’s two way play and how he can dangle in a phone booth. Fuck

    Keep in mind that all you are trading is 2 months of Hemsky in a non playoff year. I don’t think it’s possible to lose such a trade.

  14. Hammers says:

    Pouzar: I think at the Draft table that deal gets their attention (excluding their 1st pick). JMO.

    Dream along . One of the best “D” out there will draw a top forward , a #1 pick and either a top “D” player or prospect from any team .

  15. Pouzar says:

    Hammers: Dream along . One of the best “D” out there will draw a top forward , a #1 pick and either a top “D” player or prospect from any team .

    Chris Pronger says hi.

  16. Jordan says:

    Why is it that people think that just because the local media doesn’t recognized the value of Oilers players because the Oilers as a team are really bad, that other teams’ scouts and management would view Oilers players the same way?

    People think the Oilers cannot trade Hemsky, who was arguably the best player on a mediocre Czech team at the olympics? That somehow, they won’t get value for him?

    The Olympics are the ultimate of small sample sizes – there’s 29 other GMs who saw what he brings, and it’s massive.

    Are there any teams other than LA & St. Louis who wouldn’t want a speedster game breaker?

  17. Racki says:

    We know what Hemsky brings on his best nights.. Fun to watch game, and he can be solid at both ends.. But this guy isn’t irreplaceable. He’s spent most of the year on line 3! As long as the deal brings back a useful enough player that helps the team, I say make it happen. If he can fetch us a guy along the talent level of a Boyd Gordon.. Strong defense, passable offence.. I’d do it. If it’s Hemsky for a pick, id probably be disinterested too though.

  18. Genjutsu says:

    Pouzar: I think at the Draft table that deal gets their attention (excluding their 1st pick). JMO.

    I’m not sure its possible to get Weber.

    If you go to cap geek his contract is structured in a way that its half paid for at the end of the season.

    That’s a tough sell to any owner to pay that to a guy to leave after two years.

    And this is a team where money is tight we are talking about.

  19. Racki says:

    Genjutsu: I’m not sure its possible to get Weber.

    If you go to cap geek his contract is structured in a way that its half paid for at the end of the season.

    That’s a tough sell to any owner to pay that to a guy to leave after two years.

    And this is a team where money is tight we are talking about.

    Am I missing something? People keep saying this, but I think it’s just due to trusting what people say and not looking. I might be doing something wrong, but at the end of this year they will have paid $28m out of a total of $110m. That’s one quarter. At the end of 2015/16 they will have paid half. I concede that I could be misunderstanding something.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    book¡je: Does that change if Hemsky has indicated that he is not willing to re-sign here?

    I think that does change things… but I think those convinced this is the case (Brownlee etc.) have no ground for this assumption.

    Or, they have some reasonable assumptions (why wouldn’t he want to win? or make money? etc.) but they are countered by equally reasonable assumptions on the other side (no one likes moving; hemsky like EDM; he’s signed here over UFA before; etc)

    MacT knows the score. The rest of us shouldn’t be so quick to buy into fatalism.

  21. The Great One says:

    Igor Eronko ‏@IgorEronko

    Former #Sabres & #Oilers F Linus Omark signed 1-year deal with #Lulea of Swedish #SHL

  22. John Chambers says:

    Why not Anton Lander as 2nd Line C?

    His NHLe for AHL should be about .5 ppg, and alongside Perron and Eberle should put up decent offense.

    Gagner for toughness or prospects, promote Lander, spend ridiculous amounts of money on D (Markov and Nikitin).

    Problem solved, right?

  23. cc says:

    I would like to see Hemsky go to the Sens, they have a lot of good prospects. I know the Sens are battling for the Wildcard spot but a top 6 of; Spezza-Hemsky-Michalek; Turris-MacArthur-Ryan looks pretty solid. Also, it prevents the Wings from getting Hemsky. Maybe that puts them over the top, they don’t have a first round pick in this draft due to the Ryan deal.

    Maybe the Oilers try and get Pageau as the return. Pageau is a RHS that is putting up a PPG in the AHL in his +3 draft year. He’s small but doesn’t shy away from the rough stuff and he’s waiver eligible next year. Maybe you can get a conditional pick in the deal as well, depending on if Hemsky re-signs.

    The money you save with Hemsky you go out and sign a player like Kulemin, Winnik, Moss, Downie, ect …

  24. Genjutsu says:

    Racki,

    Go to Cap Geek.

    They paid 28 mil 14×2 and 26 in bonus 13×2.

    That’s 54 mil and almost half the total nut. No owner is paying that in two years to trade away the next ten.

    Edit:

    Or maybe I’m wrong there either way its too much for a reasonable man to part with.

  25. Mr DeBakey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: The problem isn’t so much value as timeline… as you mention no playoff team is going to shed quality players.
    I know people want players… but it makes more sense to me to work the market and grab picks at the deadline and flip them for players at the draft.

    March 4, 2009 The Calgary Flames acquired Olli Jokinen and Phoenix’ third round draft pick for Matthew Lombardi, Brandon Prust and Calgary’s first round selection at the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.

    June 27, 2009 Jim Vandermeer was traded to the Phoenix Coyotes in exchange for Brandon Prust.

  26. crude says:

    Keeping Hemsky would be more than fine with me. Oiler fans are unaccustomed to having depth at any position over the past, well, forever.
    That said, if a deal is made for 83 I hope to hell its to a contender. I want to to cheer for someone in the playoffs.
    As for what comes back, I wouldn’t mind a player who has spent some time being coached by Babcock (I know detroit isn’t the biggest contender this year) or Hitchcock. Basically, a player who has been shown the right way to play the game, and not over the hill. It’s obvious the Oilers value that, hence Hendricks recently, and sometimes it works out quite well if the trade target it still on the useful side of their career (Gordon/Perron).
    Prospects and picks leave me cold if they are the centrepiece of a deal. We don’t need more players learning how to play in the NHL, or under this regime. Joakim Andersson, Abdelkader, either would be interesting.

  27. hunter1909 says:

    Genjutsu: They paid 28 mil 14×2 and 26 in bonus 13×2.
    That’s 54 mil and almost half the total nut. No owner is paying that in two years to trade away the next ten.

    Offer to take Seth Jones for instant offensive firepower: sending Hemsky+Gagner+major prospect on defense(ffs MacT figure out who are the Voynov’s and send them the Teuberts).

    Swallow every cent of Hemsky’s contract and Gagner’s for the rest of the season too, if possible.

    Keep the 1st pick. It’s going to be another another dandy.

    It’s easy being an internet NHL gm.

  28. bendelson says:

    I am wrong in assuming the Oilers can’t have a $10M third line next season?

    Gordon is at 3M.
    Kulemin is 3M+?
    Hemsky is 3M+?

    Assumption: If they keep Hemsky then Kulemin is not a target.

    Hemsky > Kulemin + Hemsky’s trade value?

    Interesting choice – should Kulemin have any real interest in signing in Edm.

    Get it right MacT.
    And good luck.
    .

  29. Bag of Pucks says:

    Hammers:
    See Matheson is on his rant again for Shea but I guess he doesn’t realize it would take Hall , #1 pick plus Klefbom. Reality sucks and someone should tell Matheson to retire , actually Jones as well .

    I’m not sure the fact you don’t like someone is enough to convince them to give up their livelihood?

    If this were the case, I would certainly apply these powers of coercion to Lady Gaga, Mike Milbury, Bill O’Reilly, Glen Beck, and the entire cast of Honey Boo Boo.

  30. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Mr DeBakey: March 4, 2009 The Calgary Flames acquired Olli Jokinen and Phoenix’ third round draft pick for Matthew Lombardi, Brandon Prust and Calgary’s first round selection at the 2010 NHL Entry Draft.

    June 27, 2009 Jim Vandermeer was traded to the Phoenix Coyotes in exchange for Brandon Prust.

    And….

  31. soup says:

    A smart move might be to consider Hemmer for someone like Chris Stewart from St. Louis. Adds some depth for St. Lou into the playoffs, and adds some beef with skill for Edm.

  32. russ99 says:

    I don’t think it’s possible to get our new 2nd line center in a Hemsky or Gagner deal.

    There doesn’t seem any realistic possibility to increase the talent level there, only lower it with a more defense-oriented player rather than a true 2-way center.

    That will have to be taken care of this offseason, and would be a top priority in a draft-day trade or FA, along with top pairing D.

  33. book¡je says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    MacT knows the score. The rest of us shouldn’t be so quick to buy into fatalism.

    I fully agree, I am not saying that Hemksy has indicated that he won’t resign, but rather IF this is the case, then MacT should trade him. I would think MacT has a pretty good idea where Hemsky stands on this.

  34. Racki says:

    Genjutsu:
    Racki,

    Go to Cap Geek.

    They paid 28 mil 14×2 and 26 in bonus 13×2.

    That’s 54 mil and almost half the total nut.No owner is paying that in two years to trade away the next ten.

    Edit:

    Or maybe I’m wrong there either way its too much for a reasonable man to part with.

    I see you edited this now. I’ve been racking my brain on this. Lol I think they’ve paid “only” $28M of the $110M. Depending on how the deal is structured, they may pay another $13M July 1st ish.. But still, I think pretty deadline they’ve paid $28M with $82M left to go. Lots left to pay. Within the first year after the signing was quite a big hit to them though, which Philly banked on breaking them into not matching.

    Again I’ll concede though that I don’t know all there is to know about this stuff but the total deal was $110m ,i know, and the first bunch of years are smaller salary with huge bonuses (the salary number on CapGeek INCLUDES the bonus in it, so the first four years is really $1M each plus the $13M bonus)

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    book¡je: I fully agree, I am not saying that Hemksy has indicated that he won’t resign, but rather IF this is the case, then MacT should trade him. I would think MacT has a pretty good idea where Hemsky stands on this.

    I agree with all of this.

    If he won’t stay, or won’t stay at a reasonable rate, find the highest buyer.

  36. book¡je says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I agree with all of this.

    If he won’t stay, or won’t stay at a reasonable rate, find the highest buyer.

    I suppose if I were MacT and Hemksy indicated he is simply tired of losing and isn’t interested in signing, but the only offer out there is a 4th round pick or something, I might keep him just to hopefully finish the season on a high note (they went into the break 5-1-1). I think a strong finish to the season could be really really valuable in terms of player attitude and potential free agent signings.

  37. Mr DeBakey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: And….

    A deal in two acts
    Act I at the deadline that leaves the receiving team intact for the Play-offs.
    Act II post-season so that season and everyone lives happily ever-after

  38. OilClog says:

    book¡je: Keep in mind that all you are trading is 2 months of Hemsky in a non playoff year.I don’t think it’s possible to lose such a trade.

    Sounds like this everytime his contract is up, what else is new?

  39. eidy says:

    I wonder if PHX is a possibility. Getting Samuelsson seems unlikely (although they do owe the oilers for the Reider/Kessy trade). However, David Rundblad looks to be on the outside looking in. He has been a 7th d most of the year and with Yandle and OEL, a spot in the top 4 is unlikely. He has only played 12 games so far this year, but was 0.8 PPG in AHL last year. He has decent size and has done well in sheltered minutes so far.

    Not an ideal player, but I would prefer him to a 2nd round pick or lower

  40. gcw_rocks says:

    bendelson,

    The should not.

    Typical contenders spend about 25% of their cap space on their top line (~18M next year). The Oilers, if they keep Hall, Nuge and Eberle will spend $18M.

    They also spend about 17% of their cap on average on their second line (~12M). If you assume a second line of Perron ($3.8M), Gagner ($4.8M) and Yak ($3.9M incl bonuses) the Oilers project to spend $12.5M, right in line with average.

    Since the Oilers are spending to average on the top two lines, the average spend on the bottom six is ~$9.1M. The Oilers have Gordon ($3M) and Hendricks ($1.9M) committed, meaning they can spend $4.2M on four roles before they start chipping into money that good teams allocate to defence and goaltending.

    Of course, if the Oilers were to trade Gagner and replace him with Arcobello for $1M, they could spend $8M on those four players instead of $4.2M.

  41. Pouzar says:

    gcw_rocks,

    Very interesting. Where did you get these percentages?

  42. icecastles says:

    OilClog: In a few years everyone in the MSM not Edmonton will be raving about Ales’s two way play and how he can dangle in a phone booth.

    Okay let’s not go overboard here. I thought we were past the narrative that Hemsky is just around the corner from exploding. He’s great, but I think this far into his career, we, and the rest of the league, have a pretty good idea of what Hemsky is. He’s a good player and a fine stickhandler, but I don’t think the entire league is going to be raving about 83 any time in the near or distant future.

  43. art vandelay says:

    Offer to take Seth Jones for instant offensive firepower: sending Hemsky+Gagner+major prospect on defense(ffs MacT figure out who are the Voynov’s and send them the Teuberts).

    Offer to take? Did you recently get dropped on your head? Why would NSH trade their next superstar on D for a shooter tutor, a bag of pucks, and a chance to spin the roulette wheel at Century Casino?

  44. Racki says:

    icecastles: Okay let’s not go overboard here. I thought we were past the narrative that Hemsky is just around the corner from exploding. He’s great, but I think this far into his career, we, and the rest of the league, have a pretty good idea of what Hemsky is. He’s a good player and a fine stickhandler, but I don’t think the entire league is going to be raving about 83 any time in the near or distant future.

    I second this. Does some things quite well. In the end though, not a big difference maker here. Certainly not a player that we should consider no room for improvement on. And I think his talents are great, but better suited elsewhere. I wouldn’t be upset if he stayed, but I’d be fine if we parted ways too.

    I don’t think he will ever explode. He might be being held back here a bit, but we’ve seen his potential as an Oiler. It’s not bad, but definitely one spot I’d replace with a big forward with skill if we can find one somehow.

  45. gcw_rocks says:

    Pouzar,

    I took a look at how Boston, Chicago, San Jose, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Vancouver (six regular playoff teams with contender labels) spent their cap space, look at who was on what line at the time, and their cap hits. They looked at the min, mean and max for each line to see what I could learn.

    Its not perfect, but it gives you some sense of when your team is overspending or underspending on a line. I plan to re-do the analysis again next year to see what happens when the cap goes back up.

    Those six team spend on average 54.5% of their cap space on forwards (51% to 59% for the range). On a $70M cap, that would be ~38M for your top 12 forwards. The Oilers have nine players (if you assume Yak gets his bonuses) totalling $36.4M, under contract for next year, including Gagner.

    If the Oilers plan to fix their defence and goaltending, they need to be very careful how they fill out the rest of the forward ranks.

  46. Pouzar says:

    gcw_rocks,

    Good stuff thx for that.

  47. OilClog says:

    icecastles: Okay let’s not go overboard here. I thought we were past the narrative that Hemsky is just around the corner from exploding. He’s great, but I think this far into his career, we, and the rest of the league, have a pretty good idea of what Hemsky is. He’s a good player and a fine stickhandler, but I don’t think the entire league is going to be raving about 83 any time in the near or distant future.

    Pretty sure once Hemsky’s talents hit a Eastern market on a nightly basis or a contending team… All the narrative about Hemsky will take a 180spin. IMO

  48. hunter1909 says:

    art vandelay,

    Ha ha sorry about that. I meant that ironically, since it was unlikely Nashville wants the package. Still, Sam Pollock once waited until the Leafs GM was on vacation and rang up the Leafs owner Harold Ballard, who despised Christianic tendencies among the Leafs. After a few minutes Pollock innocently asks about “That religious guy” to wit Ballard explodes with something like”You mean Doug Jarvis!? You can have him!” ; and so from that subterfuge the Habs got Doug Jarvis for next to nothing and the Leafs, like the current oilers, continue not winning anything.

    Now. MacT is an idiot who tells everyone what he’s got in his poker hand, so I’ll not be expecting anything too creative. Unlike Kevin Lowe’s fleecing of the Blues for Jeff Woywitka, Doug Lynch and I don’t remember the rest.

  49. Hammers says:

    Pouzar: Chris Pronger says hi.

    Chris Pronger was different circumstances but not surprised you mentioned it . Anyway Nashville won’t let Webber go .

  50. Hammers says:

    Racki:
    We know what Hemsky brings on his best nights.. Fun to watch game, and he can be solid at both ends.. But this guy isn’t irreplaceable. He’s spent most of the year on line 3! As long as the deal brings back a useful enough player that helps the team, I say make it happen. If he can fetch us a guy along the talent level of a Boyd Gordon.. Strong defense, passable offence.. I’d do it. If it’s Hemsky for a pick, id probably be disinterested too though.

    Think if you checked he played above Yak most of this season so more than 50% on 2nd line . Either way he would be a great ADD to any cup bound team

  51. hags9k says:

    soup,

    I don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance of that deal. I would die and go to heaven if we could turn Hemsky into Stewart though.

  52. book¡je says:

    OilClog: Sounds like this everytime his contract is up, what else is new?

    I don’t understand the question. The way free agency works is that if the Oilers don’t sign Hemsky to a new contract, he becomes a free agent and can sign with any team in the league with no compensation for the Oilers. The Oilers currently only have Hemsky under contract for the remainder of the season, so any trade that they make only includes that contract. It’s like with Smyth was traded to the Islanders. The Islanders got Smyth for a few months and then he decided to sign elsewhere.

  53. Racki says:

    ckquote cite=”comment-296321″>

    Hammers: Think if you checked he played above Yak most of this season so more than 50% on 2nd line . Either way he would be a great ADD to any cup bound team

    Actually, without looking.. I believe you are right. However I think Hemsky is a better part on another team than he is here, and agree with your last statement. He’d be a good add to another team

  54. hags9k says:

    So who does everyone think the Sabres are going to pick assuming they are #1?

  55. spoiler says:

    Apparently Dave Bolland’s contract demands are quite exorbitant and he may be traded at the deadline. Any interest in this player now or July 1? At what price point?

  56. fifthcartel says:

    Ryan Dittrick ‏@ryandittrick 2h
    Dallas Eakins says certain guys have earned some additional minutes/responsibility. Expect to see Taylor Hall getting some time on the PK.

    Hmmm, interesting. RNH + Hall killing penalties?

  57. Melman says:

    fifthcartel,

    Unless it’s the last 15 sec., please no. Why on earth would they want Hall blocking bombs from the point. That’s what your bottom 6 guys should be doing

  58. Pouzar says:

    Hammers: Chris Pronger was different circumstances but not surprised you mentioned it . Anyway Nashville won’t let Webber go .

    What was so special about his circumstances that 29 other teams couldn’t trump EDM’s offer?

  59. Hammers says:

    Pouzar: What was so special about his circumstances that 29 other teams couldn’t trump EDM’s offer?

    Cap space & cash to spend on Pronger & don’t forget Brewer just played for Canada so we gave up a fairly decent package to the Blues . Obviously the Blues liked the trade . People complain about K.Lowe but he did make some good trades and at a time when we had multiple owners with who knows what imput they kept giving . As for his trip to Anaheim its well documented . For me that’s the one we lost .

  60. Marc says:

    gcw_rocks,

    I saw your comment on Gregor’s piece on ON. I don’t like commenting over there, so I thought I do so here.

    I’ve been thinking a bit about carrying the puck in vs dump in in light of Tyler’s recent posts. The thing I’m struggling with is treating them as a dichotomy – either the coach preaches carrying the puck in or he calls for them to dump it in. I stopped playing at peewee, so maybe someone who played at a higher level can correct me here, but isn’t the question of whether you should carry the puck in or dump it in a situational thing?

    In a vacuum, carrying the puck in is obviously superior – you maintain possession the entire time instead of giving up possession and then having to get it back. But it can be a low percentage play if the opposing team are aligned to stop it. If they have a few players lined up along the blue line, they have a good chance of either separating you from the puck, poke checking it away as you try to carry it in, or drawing one of your teammates offside as you try to maneuver around them.

    If the opposing team are lined up along the blue line though, they may be out of position to deal with a dump in. They’ll be facing the wrong way and skating backwards, so the attacking forward should have an edge on recovering the puck deep or along the half wall.

    So for the attacking player, they shouldn’t be thinking ‘gotta try and carry it in’ or ‘gotta try and dump it in’, but rather ‘is carrying it in or dumping it in the higher percentage play here, based on the alignment of the opposition’?

    If that’s right, then increased ‘emphasis’ on dumping it in this season that Tyler has noticed may not be Eakins trying to make the team more of a dump and chase team, but rather him trying to get Hall to stop carrying it in when dumping it in would be the higher percentage play.

    And if so, then the explanation for the decline in Hall’s corsi could be, at least in part, explained by him overcompensating and dumping it in when he should actually be carrying it in and/or a failure by him/his line mates to execute puck recovery in the O zone, when in fact the dump in was the high percentage play.

    Just my thoughts, anyways.

  61. Ducey says:

    Well, for those of you who do not want draft picks (I am not one of you), you had better prepare yourself:

    (From TSN) With the NHL’s trade deadline looming, Craig MacTavish knows exactly what his goals are for the Edmonton Oilers.

    “I’d be disappointed if we weren’t able to get our second- or third-rounder back,” the Oilers GM explained to reporters on Tuesday. “And potentially more than that. If we’re sitting at the draft with our first pick and then we’re not picking again until the fourth round, that’d be disappointing.

    “That’s exactly what we’re going to try and do – get those picks back.”

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444655#YourCallTop

  62. commonfan14 says:

    McKenzie saying at least a dozen teams are inquiring about Vanek.

    Depending on the return, we’ll finally be able to assess whether that offer sheet was a good idea or not…

  63. prairieschooner says:

    I wish we could just leave the Webber to Edmonton stuff alone. His contract structure as mentioned is prohibitive plus we would have to give up more than we would want.
    It is great to see everyone trying to offer balanced trades (mostly) but the reason why trades are difficult to make and I mean big ones is that the other team has to want to make the deal .
    As the game of musical trade chairs get going more than a few teams are going to be left without a place to go

  64. spoiler says:

    Ducey:
    Ducey
    says: February 25, 2014 at 4:29 pm
    Well, for those of you who do not want draft picks (I am not one of you), you had better prepare yourself:
    (From TSN) With the NHL’s trade deadline looming, Craig MacTavish knows exactly what his goals are for the Edmonton Oilers.
    “I’d be disappointed if we weren’t able to get our second- or third-rounder back,” the Oilers GM explained to reporters on Tuesday. “And potentially more than that. If we’re sitting at the draft with our first pick and then we’re not picking again until the fourth round, that’d be disappointing.
    “That’s exactly what we’re going to try and do – get those picks back.”

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444655#YourCallTop

    I would have been terribly surprised if this wasn’t MacT’s strategy. I think there is an implication there too that neither Gagner nor The Kids and the Hall are moving.

  65. spoiler says:

    Marc: but isn’t the question of whether you should carry the puck in or dump it in a situational thing?

    Yes. But the coach can affect to some degree how conservative or risky the decision-making is. That said, you’re right, this is largely a situational on-ice event that depends on a whole range of factors… not just the defense’s position, but also your linemates’ positions, everyone’s speed, direction etc. It is certainly not controlled by some binary state of the coach’s system, 1 or 0.

  66. prairieschooner says:

    If we’re sitting at the draft with our first pick and then we’re not picking again until the fourth round, that’d be disappointing.

    Poor MacT facing a boring day at the draft

  67. Pouzar says:

    Hammers: Subscribe

    Pronger was traded to EDM in the summer. Lots of other teams could have had him. You can’t tell me EDM was the only team that had the cap room for that extension.

    So you contend that Brewer, Lynch, and Woywitka was a good package but scoff at the package proposed earlier for Shea Weber?

    What am I missing?

  68. Melman says:

    Pouzar,

    I think you might be underestimating the package at that time somewhat – Brewer was sold high and Woywitka was iirc one of the more highly rated D prospects around at that time and the number of teams that could take on Pronger’s salary coming out of the lockout was small. Bit of a perfect storm, but 6 rings deserves credit for that one – he jacked it out of the park…then he peed all over his shoes 12 months later.

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