WILD AT OILERS, G61 13-14

The NHL is back, and the Oilers play their first game post-Olympics. Based on what we saw last night, expect skating in porridge for the first period and then some exciting play in the final 40. On December 27, the Oilers were 39GP, 12-24-3. In the 21 games since, Edmonton is 8-9-4. In their last 10: 5-3-2.

In recent days, Oilers coach Dallas Eakins and GM Craig MacTavish have gone out of their way to mention Justin Schultz as a trending player. MacT said he’d get after a Schultz contract in the days after the trade deadline; Eakins mentioned two players by name during the STH event (Schultz, Nuge) as having quietly improved their game over the season.

VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER DECEMBER 19

blue sledgehammerThere is no blue bubble here on the 19th of December. Justin Schultz is in the easy corridor and getting positive zone starts, while also delivering a bubble that isn’t close to blue. That’s not a good thing—and by eye Schultz struggled during the first half of the season.

VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER AT THE BREAK

vollman oilers blue feb 13The color is the same, but he’s moved up a quadrant to ‘two-way’ and is clearly facing tougher competition. I wonder this: why no mention by Eakins or MacTavish about the new blue moon Marincin? Surely any fool can see (by eye, by math or by sledge) the Marincin-Petry pairing is running the heavy heavy fuel and lifting the biggest boulder.

 WHO’S KILLING THE GREAT CHEFS OF EUROPE?

hemsky commonAles Hemsky is leaving town soon, after spending the most bizarre post-SCF coda imaginable in our fair city. Long forgotten are his contributions to a winning team, 83 is looked upon with pity or sadness or both. I’ll not pity Hemsky, but rather rejoice if he finds a new town and breathes the clean air of top 6F minutes and power-play time. The Oilers under MacT are about to get a big one wrong in the name of draft picks.

Let’s say the Oilers trade Hemmer to St. Louis for their first round pick (and we’ll spot it at #29 overall). That would give the club the following picks:

  • #2 overall
  • #29 overall
  • #116 overall
  • #122 overall
  • #152 overall
  • #182 overall

All the info is here. This kind of transaction can be a real setback. Marco Roy is the payment for Andrew Cogliano, and despite some nice things his injuries this season are going to make him more of a long shot to ever make the NHL. Beyond that, it’s extremely unlikely he’ll cover the Cogs bet. That’s what we’re dealing with here. The only reason I can see to justify Hemsky’s exit for draft picks is:

  • his refusal to sign an extension
  • the Oilers exhaustive search for a more NHL ready option finds nothing

There’s no way to know those things are true, and I don’t believe they can afford to keep him through the season and see him walk. However, a draft pick—even #29 overall—is a distant bell. The question that comes after dealing Hemsky for a pick: who replaces him? Back come the answers: on Pitlick, on Horak, on Jones, on Hendricks.

The sky is crying.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE GH

10 this morning on TSN 1260, we hit the air with a terrific lineup. Scheduled to appear:

  • Dennis King, Oilogosphere icon. Olympics, Hemsky trade, the youngsters.
  • Guy Flaming, Pipeline Show. Guy had Dillon Simpson on his show recently, and got a clear indication about how the UND star is leaning as he comes out of college. We’ll discuss that story and the 2014 draft.
  • Alan Hull, Copper and Blue. We’ll set the stage for the Oil-Wild tonight,and talk about the deadline.
  • Harrison Mooney, Puck Daddy and Pass it to Bulis. Kesler moving? Canucks playoffs? Indoor/outdoor game?

10-1260 via text, @Lowetide_ on twitter. It’ll be fun!

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264 Responses to "WILD AT OILERS, G61 13-14"

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  1. fuzzy muppet says:

    It’s been so long since a game day thread that I am actually EXCITED to see the Oilers play again.

    It will be sad to see 83 go, but seriously, he’s has to be at the point he no longer wants to be on this team. (and who would blame him).

    My favorite in season day (trade deadline) is next week and I won’t have internet access. But I will have Costa Rican ziplining access :)

    Lets hope the boys finish strong. GO OILERS!

  2. Ryan says:

    That’s a good point in terms of the Cogliano trade…

    Trading useful players for picks (Cogliano, Brodiak) is reason #99 why we’re still wandering the desert.

  3. Lowetide says:

    Ryan:
    That’s a good point in terms of the Cogliano trade…

    Trading useful players for picks (Cogliano, Brodiak) is reason #99 why we’re still wandering the dessert.

    Although I’m sure wandering in the dessert can be fun, depending on who you’re with!

  4. russ99 says:

    I hope Marincin shows improvement due to his Olympic experience.

    But I’m torn between pulling for a win vs. maximizing our pick/the return if we trade it.

    IMHO Death Proof is Tarantino’s finest movie. It’s an homage to classic car movies of the 60s and 70s. Most critics either didn’t know or didn’t get the references.

  5. Lowetide says:

    Bohologo:
    LT, I am also a big Hemsky fan, but even if he’s traded for draft picks only, it’s fair to include $5 million in cap space on the same side of the ledger. Cap space is an asset; whether that space will be well used is another conversation,

    Sure, but I don’t think Hemsky is going to cost you $5M next year. So I see your point, but someone else is going to get the bargain.

  6. j says:

    Hey LT – I do agree with you re Hemsky. Funny story – I was waiting to get my hair cut in 2012 and Tambo was in the chair when I arrived. Our hairdresser had me take a seat next to them as I waited. I tried to catch Tambos eye but he was pretty focused on not being focused on anything. I pretended to play with my Blackberry and when my (his) hairdresser asked what I was looking at I stated ‘Just checking to see if the Oilers have signed Hemsky yet’. Tambo gave a quick sideways glance but nothing more. However, on the way out he gave me a nod and a smile. Hemsky was signed the next week. So, let’s work this together. Where does MacT get his hair cut?

  7. TheseColoursDontRun says:

    LT,
    So your picking Hemmer to lose in the SCF with St. Louis.

    Why do you hate Hemsky?
    :)

  8. Doug McLachlan says:

    Bold moves, MacT said.

    Trading Hemsky for picks is not bold – it’s pedestrian.

    That said, trading Hemsky for picks and then resigning in the summer – ala Keith Tkachuck – well that starts to look bolder.

    He just built a house here. I sincerely believe he likes it in Edmonton, even with the crap he has had to deal with. Making the gamble that he comes back after securing you an asset – that may be bold.

    It has happened so rarely that I have no reason to believe it might happen here but is there any reason to believe it could NOT happen?

  9. Truth says:

    The bottom line is that if they are not going to sign Hemsky, at the decision of management or the player himself, they have to get something for him. It may look bad in a few years when Hemsky is still producing well and the draft pick is a bust, but it is better than him walking in the off-season for nothing. It’s not as if he has to help the Oilers in a long playoff run and you could justify losing him for nothing.

  10. Ducey says:

    Who cares who replaces Hemsky this season? Put a bunch of guys through that spot and see if you have anything for the last ~20 games. In the offseason there will be lots of options to replace him, including with Hemsky.

    Looking at that Volmann chart for the Oilers D, is it accurate to say Belov has been the third best Dman for them?

    Rel Corsi
    Marty 0.69
    Petry -5.52
    Belov -7.72

    I get that Petry and Marincin are doing pretty well in the upper left quadrant, but how do you judge who have been the third and fourth best Dmen for the Oilers?

  11. russ99 says:

    Doug McLachlan,

    IMO, other than the real concern that Hemsky may not want to re-sign here, It comes down to who do you pay that cash to and give a second line spot to – Hemsky or Yak?

    Hemmer is probably my favorite OIler of the last 10 years, but you have to say Yak.

    Signing Hemmer for $4-5M to play him the third line where we need to add a few larger, experienced, quality NHL true 2-way players to compete (and should sign for less that what Hemsky will command as a FA) should be a non-starter.

    Sometimes you have to put sentimentality aside and do what;s best for the hockey team moving forward. I sure hope MacT is doing that…

  12. Ducey says:

    TheseColoursDontRun:
    LT,
    So your picking Hemmer to lose in the SCF with St. Louis.

    Why do you hate Hemsky?

    If he really hated him, he would have traded him to the Canucks.

  13. Numenius says:

    “The question that comes after dealing Hemsky for a pick: who replaces him? Back come the answers: on Pitlick, on Horak, on Jones, on Hendricks.”

    What about Arcobello “replacing” Hemsky?

    That actually seems reasonable to me. Arcobello would be happy to play on a checking line (or any line) and he brings a lot of the same offensive skill (though not all of it). He can also play wing or C.

  14. unca miltie says:

    Doug McLachlan:
    Bold moves, MacT said.

    Trading Hemsky for picks is not bold – it’s pedestrian.

    That said, trading Hemsky for picks and then resigning in the summer – ala Keith Tkachuck – well that starts to look bolder.

    He just built a house here.I sincerely believe he likes it in Edmonton, even with the crap he has had to deal with.Making the gamble that he comes back after securing you an asset – that may be bold.

    It has happened so rarely that I have no reason to believe it might happen here but is there any reason to believe it could NOT happen?

    Kinda funny. last year people were talking about how he had sold his house here..

    I am a big Hemmeer fan. Hope he resigns…worried he won’t

  15. FastOil says:

    Ducey: If he really hated him, he would have traded him to the Canucks.

    Speaking of the Dys, I wonder how desperate they are for secondary scoring given the need to win now? I doubt they are thinking rebuild after re-upping the Sedins. Hemsky and Arco for Horvat?

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Although I’m sure wandering in the dessert can be fun, depending on who you’re with!

    Harvey Keitel! sounds great!

  17. Oilanderp says:

    Sorry if I am a bit sluggish or indecisive while watching tonight. I have to reacquaint myself with the small ice.

  18. borisnikov says:

    The Oilers under MacT are about to get a big one wrong in the name of draft picks.

    The rebuild stretches on… I’m preparing my emotional state now to see them miss the playoffs next year, and depending on their performance in ’14-’15, the year after that as well.

    “We can look for the North Pole, or we can play ‘Here we go gathering Nuts in May’ with the end part of an ants’ nest. It’s all the same to me.”

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    Who cares who replaces Hemsky this season?Put a bunch of guys through that spot and see if you have anything for the last ~20 games.In the offseason there will be lots of options to replace him, including with Hemsky.

    Looking at that Volmann chart for the Oilers D, is it accurate to say Belov has been the third best Dman for them?

    Rel Corsi
    Marty 0.69
    Petry -5.52
    Belov -7.72

    I get that Petry and Marincin are doing pretty well in the upper left quadrant, but how do you judge who have been the third and fourth best Dmen for the Oilers?

    Belov is getting the easiest comp of the bunch. That’s going to hurt his report card.

    The big hurt though is him getting walked on that long shift that had us all gasping and wondering who put Struds and/or Cross on the ice. Things like that leave a mark. Eakins seems to over-value the information he gets from big mistakes like this.

    His WOWY shows well though and I think he is well clear of Larsen, Fraser, etc. at the bottom of the barrel.

  20. Bar_Qu says:

    I will miss the game for a Bruce approved activity – taking 11 yr olds out to an observatory. But since it’s the Wild I predict a one sided out shooting fiasco with the other side taking the victory on the strength of goal tending and a lucky bounce. I hope it’s the Oilers. #hatetheWild

  21. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    FWIW, I completely agree that walking from Hemsky is a through and through mistake.

    If he doesn’t want to stay here, that is an indictment of MacT for not working harder to make that appealing for him.

    However, that presumes it’s all on Hemsky. I highly doubt that is the case.

    MacT is gutting the roster and re-making it in his own image. The end result might be pretty, but in the meantime nice things are getting trampled.

    I think the best thing we can say is MacT is no fool about value here. He didn’t get a sound offer in the summer and choose to hold on rather than walk for nothing. This time he doesn’t have half a season to up Hemsky’s return, so he’s got to take what he can get… but he’s shown a willingness to at least try to get value.

  22. Ducey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    You a politician Rom? You didn’t answer my question :)

    How do we assess (statistically) who has been the 3rd and 4th best defensemen for the Oilers?

  23. Mjolnir says:

    TheseColoursDontRun:
    LT,
    So your picking Hemmer to lose in the SCF with St. Louis.

    Why do you hate Hemsky?

    NJD forfeits their pick. 29=Stanley.
    LT you sneaky bastard.
    I bet a buffalo nickel he goes all Maguire and profess his love for Hemsky on TLDWLT until early January 2046

  24. LoDog says:

    Numenius:
    “The question that comes after dealing Hemsky for a pick: who replaces him? Back come the answers: on Pitlick, on Horak, on Jones, on Hendricks.”

    What about Arcobello “replacing” Hemsky?

    That actually seems reasonable to me. Arcobello would be happy to play on a checking line (or any line) and he brings a lot of the same offensive skill (though not all of it). He can also play wing or C.

    I was thinking the same thing yesterday. By number and eye Arco can bring every bit as much to the Oilers as Hemsky. For 1 million vs whatever crazy number some people around here want to pay Hemsky.

  25. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: MacT is gutting the roster and re-making it in his own image. The end result might be pretty, but in the meantime nice things are getting trampled.

    Surely though, MacT would consider Hemsky as one of ‘his’ guys: he predates Mac’s time as GM, but as head coach, they have a long and happy history together. I think if Hemsky is dealt, it would be disingenuous to consider ‘remaking [the roster] in his own image] as being a factor in any way.

  26. sumaclab says:

    Hemsky is a square peg in a round hole on the 3rd line. You can’t justify his cost if he is playing 3rd line minutes.

    MacT is doing the right thing. Reshaping this team. Promote from within. Lander and Pitlick both have a shot.But they won’t have it if we hang onto Hemsky and R Smyth and Jones. We have to move forward.

  27. Jordan says:

    I think that you guys are missing the big picture moving forwards…

    Vancouver needs to trade Kessler, and they need young secondary scoring.

    Is there a fit for the Oilers to add to their collections of Ryans? I hear that the Oilers are looking to trade Gagner…

    (yes, I’m trolling all of you. Yes, It’s hilarious. No, I won’t tell you where I live)

  28. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    You a politician Rom?You didn’t answer my question

    How do we assess (statistically) who has been the 3rd and 4th best defensemen for the Oilers?

    Well, as a reader of this site you should know these questions aren’t always answered in a clear cut manner.

    Here are the tools we have to judge players:

    TOI:
    he’s 5th on the team at 5×5 TOI of players with >20GPs (6th if you include Larsen at 17 gps);
    he gets no significant 4×5 TOI;
    and is 3rd in 5×4 TOI

    Usage:
    As the Vollman shows he’s getting middle of the pack zone starts and the easiest competition.

    Boxcars:
    4th in scoring, 6points (tied with Larsen who has substantially less gps)

    Scoring Chances:
    3rd of the D >20GPS (4th if you include Larsen)

    Corsi:
    3rd on team >20Gps by CorsiOn and CorsiRel

    WOWY:
    shows well with both Petry and Schultz; helps Schultz and Petry and Belov help each other.

    So… find a straightforward answer out of that. By that, I mean, what do you think is the most important factor…

    Eakins clearly doesn’t value him as 3rd or 4th based on GPS and TOI and Usage.

    But the other numbers suggest Eakins is undervaluing him.

    And, until we actually see what he does in a 3rd/4th spot for a long stretch of games… it’s near impossible to know.

    I suspect he’s around there… but… I don’t know.

  29. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: Surely though, MacT would consider Hemsky as one of ‘his’ guys: he predates Mac’s time as GM, but as head coach, they have a long and happy history together. I think if Hemsky is dealt, it would be disingenuous to consider ‘remaking [the roster] in his own image] as being a factor in any way.

    Tell this to Horcoff.

    ps. I’m not saying MacT has soured on Hemsky.

  30. rickithebear says:

    Doug McLachlan: Bold moves, MacT said.

    My bold has allways been “stands out against the conventional.”
    We have turned over 11 players from last years roster.

    11
    MP->Perron
    Whitney ->Belov
    Horcoff->Gordon
    NKB->labarbera-Bryz
    Dubnyk->Scrivens
    Petrell->Hendricks
    Smid-> Marincin
    Brown->Gazdic
    Belanger->
    Smithson->
    Eager->

    What at Deadline
    Hemsky
    N. schultz
    Gagner?
    Hemsky, Gagner, 25 total EVG last 2 Seasons.
    26G from both last 2 seasons would be top 200.
    Can we get 2 top 200 for less than 10M.

    Intelectual Bold

    Versus TSN
    Bold: “Flashy, Showy”

    with Smyth, Jones, Potter likely Exiting

    that would leave under contract or rights hold
    Hall
    Eberle
    Yak
    RNH
    4 first line Even scorers.
    Perron top 30 EVG Fwd
    Gordon top 200 EVG FWD
    Hendricks averaged 9 EVG /78gm top 200
    Jeonsuu

    J. Schultz #3 EVG Dman
    Petry Top 25 EVG Dmen
    Ference Avg top 40 EVG last 3 years.

    I see a pattern Yeah!

  31. delooper says:

    Is there anything more to the “trade Hemsky” story, other than it being a narrative the bloggers and the press have been “pushing” for some time — a narrative they’re emotionally invested in? I suppose I haven’t seen much evidence it’s an actual thing.

  32. rickithebear says:

    FastOil: Speaking of the Dys, I wonder how desperate they are for secondary scoring given the need to win now? I doubt they are thinking rebuild after re-upping the Sedins. Hemsky and Arco for Horvat?

    secondary scoring? LOL!
    Secondary Assisting!

    Serious issues if you can not see the diffrence!

  33. Ducey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    I suspect he’s around there… but… I don’t know.

    :)
    I feel better now. I can’t really figure it out either. My eyes tell me Jultz is a keeper, but it is really hard to determine who else is of use out of the rest of the DCorp. I have to say that I had been impressed with Nultz in the last few games before the break and his bubble has moved into the upper left (although it is far from blue).

    I am always left with a question in my own mind when people are so certain to declare particular players terrible, when the stats are often hardly black and white and with young players, not very predictive.

  34. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Tell this to Horcoff.
    ps. I’m not saying MacT has soured on Hemsky.

    Both Horcoff and MacT agreed that it was time to move on. Exact same thing applies here: you’re confusing the desire to move a player with the REASON for moving said player.

    Factoring in Horcoff neither proves nor changes a thing.

  35. book¡je says:

    LT – I think Hemsky is gone because he is unwilling to sign here, not because the Oilers covet a 29th pick over a signed Hemsky (at a reasonable price).

    I have absolutely no inside information about this. Its just that I can’t imagine a rational human being deciding to stay here in Hemsky’s situation.

  36. Ducey says:

    book¡je:
    LT – I think Hemsky is gone because he is unwilling to sign here, not because the Oilers covet a 29th pick over a signed Hemsky (at a reasonable price).

    I have absolutely no inside information about this.Its just that I can’t imagine a rational human being deciding to stay here in Hemsky’s situation.

    Wasn’t there a report about a month ago where Hemsky had emerged from a meeting with Lowe or MacT and was said to have been “happy”?

    It seems to me that Hemsky, if traded, is getting exactly what he wants.

  37. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: Both Horcoff and MacT agreed that it was time to move on. Exact same thing applies here: you’re confusing the desire to move a player with the REASON for moving said player.

    Factoring in Horcoff neither proves nor changes a thing.

    I really don’t follow you here.

    MacT in the Summer said both Hemsky and Horcoff needed to move on. He found a buyer for Horcoff and didn’t for Hemsky. They held a press conference about it. He said he couldn’t get fair value.

    He tried to trade him and will again.

    What’s confusing here?

  38. OilClog says:

    Does MacT dare approach Jerome for the 3rd RW spot.

    Gritty, hits, still scores, can move up in a pinch.

    I’ll shed a few tears seeing Hemsky leave town, favorite Oiler since Weight, replacing him with Iggy in the offseason wouldn’t kill me.

  39. D says:

    Scarlett, LT, Scarlett.

    Lowetide: Although I’m sure wandering in the dessert can be fun, depending on who you’re with!

  40. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I really don’t follow you here.

    I can tell.

    Romulus Apotheosis: What’s confusing here?

    You tell me.

    I think you need to reread the thread, Rom: you’re completely missing the point I’m making.

    The initial point I disagreed with was that Hemsky would be moved because MacT is “remaking the roster in his own image”; in other words, building a team made up of his own guys. I suggested that this notion of “loyalty to one’s own” likely has little to do with the reason Hemsky would be traded, as MacT surely views Hemsky as one of “his” guys due to the history together from Mac’s time as HC.

    There can be many reasons to trade him. I say that this “own image” thing is very unlikely to be one of them. you are raising Horcoff as proof to the contrary. However, simply pointing out that Horcoff was traded in NO WAY WHATSOEVER provides indication that Horcoff was traded because he was not “in MacT’s own image”.

    I hate to lecture on the most basic rules of logic, because I know you’re a very sharp and clear thinker. But you are showing a (rather tenuous) correlation and completely failing to provide any causal relationship between a guy getting traded and the (bizarre if true) reason for the trade.

    Horc was traded because both he and the GM had agreed the losing had gotten to him and a fresh perspective on a new team would be good for him. Additionally, the cap space allowed the team some flexibility moving forward as his role was adequately replaced by the much less expensive Boyd Gordon.

    To throw your words back at you with a degree of snark that only the internet allows me to do (nah, I’m snarky in person too): What’s confusing here?

  41. book¡je says:

    Icecastles & Rom – I think you are debating potatos vs potatos or something like that. In any case, everyone knows that MacT is trading Hemsky because of his bad body language and his not being able to fit in a round hole.

  42. icecastles says:

    book¡je: Icecastles & Rom – I think you are debating potatos vs potatos or something like that.

    You say potato, I say tomato… and Dan Quayle still can’t spell either.

  43. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles,

    ok, then.

    not being snarky. I was genuinely confused. I remain so.

    I think you’ve misread me and my attempt to clarify.

    Saying MacT is remaking the team in his image doesn’t mean that every player he offloads is some anti-MacT figure. Horcoff is a classic MacT figure. He fits MacT’s image of how to play hockey. He was traded and MacT found Gordon, another player in his own image.

    Two things are happening: he is gutting the roster he received; he is re-making the roster in his own image.

    These are true things.

  44. thejonrmcleod says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    “In his own image” suggests “after his likeness.” I think a better phrase would be “of his own doing.”

  45. Bag of Pucks says:

    rickithebear: My bold has allways been “stands out against the conventional.”
    We have turned over 11 players from last years roster.

    11
    MP->Perron
    Whitney ->Belov
    Horcoff->Gordon
    NKB->labarbera-Bryz
    Dubnyk->Scrivens
    Petrell->Hendricks
    Smid-> Marincin
    Brown->Gazdic
    Belanger->
    Smithson->
    Eager->

    Think Smid for Marincin is a tad off, but when you put it that way, it looks like a pretty nice productive season by our rookie GM.

    If these things happen between now and next season, I’ll fully buy into the MacT koolaid.

    1) Trade Gagner and Hemmer for solid two way veteran forwards or prospect trending favourably D with size.
    2) Sign J Schultz to a reasonable bridge contract
    3) Draft an outscoring C with size with the 1st rounder or trade for Kesler
    4) Draft a goalie in the second round
    5) Turnover some of the pro scouting and assistant coaching staff

  46. slopitch says:

    I think Chicago is the best fit for Kesler. Too bad those teams are crazy rivals. Chicago has been looking for a #2C for a while. Can you imagine Toews/Kesler 1/2?!?

    Too bad Oilers are likely on the do not trade list.

  47. theres oil in virginia says:

    book¡je: because of his bad body language and his not being able to fit in a round hole.

    All of this talk about body language and round holes has attracted the scrutiny of Sam the Eagle.

    “Have we no shame, people!?”

  48. fifthcartel says:

    Mark Easson
    @myNHLtradeRumor
    Elliotte Friedman on Fan590 thinks the Oilers and Rangers could be interested in Kesler. The Kings may have interest in Andrew MacDonald.

  49. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    icecastles,

    ok, then.

    not being snarky. I was genuinely confused. I remain so.

    I think you’ve misread me and my attempt to clarify.

    Saying MacT is remaking the team in his image doesn’t mean that every player he offloads is some anti-MacT figure. Horcoff is a classic MacT figure. He fits MacT’s image of how to play hockey. He was traded and MacT found Gordon, another player in his own image.

    Two things are happening: he is gutting the roster he received; he is re-making the roster in his own image.

    These are true things.

    True things:

    1. MacT is remaking the roster in his own image.
    2. Horc was traded and Hemsky is likely to be traded.

    Illogical conclusion: One of these is the reason for/cause of the other.

    Also true things:
    1. Sparrows can fly.
    2. Something flew into the World trade Centre and destroyed it.

    Illogical conclusion:
    A sparrow destroyed the World Trade Centre.

    Listing a bunch of true things then stating that one of them is the cause of the other is terrible, terrible, terrible logic.

    Edit: I’m not saying this isn’t necessarily true (though I personally believe it to be untrue): I’m merely saying that the facts as presented provide no compelling reason to believe it.

  50. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    thejonrmcleod:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    “In his own image” suggests “after his likeness.” I think a better phrase would be “of his own doing.”

    But I don’t just mean “of his own doing”… nor do I mean “after his likeness” if by that you mean MacT the player.

    I mean he has a vision of the team. he going to try and achieve that with all his moves. Some players who fit that vision more or less (say Horcoff and Hemsky) are going to be moved along the way because he wants to start from a blank piece of paper, he wants to gut the team before he re-makes it in his image.

    He’s said this very plainly many times: players need a second look; new environment; get tired of losing, lose their fire… whatever

    We can add our own: age; cap room; the desire to start from scratch; etc.

    Two things: gut the team; re-make in image.

  51. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    fifthcartel:
    Mark Easson
    @myNHLtradeRumor
    Elliotte Friedman on Fan590 thinks the Oilers and Rangers could be interested in Kesler.The Kings may have interest in Andrew MacDonald.

    Thank god!

    on the latter. whoever “wins” the MacDonald sweepstakes (twice!) in trade and then signing is going to lose big time.

    On Kesler… BM mentioned NYR last night too.

    Don’t know what Oil would give up for Kesler, the first?

  52. Lois Lowe says:

    I would think just about every team is interested in Kesler.

  53. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles,

    re-read all my posts and find the causality you assume is there. It isn’t.

    Once more: I’m not saying Horcoff and/or Hemsky are some anti-MacT figure and that’s why he’s going to trade them.

    The fact that he’s going to re-make the team in is image is related to them only insofar as their removal grants him the blank piece of paper he wants to write on.

  54. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Some players who fit that vision more or less (say Horcoff and Hemsky) are going to be moved along the way because he wants to start from a blank piece of paper, he wants to gut the team before he re-makes it in his image.

    This could be the case if he had (or believed he had) an extended timeline to tinker, blow it up and start from scratch and rebuild the rebuild. It is highly unlikely that this is his mandate.

  55. russ99 says:

    fifthcartel,

    Man, Kesler would cure a lot of what ails us, but I think the chance of that happening is pretty much nil unless MacT takes all leave of his senses and is led behind the woodshed by Gillis.

  56. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: re-read all my posts and find the causality you assume is there. It isn’t.

    Here:

    Icey: Surely though, MacT would consider Hemsky as one of ‘his’ guys: he predates Mac’s time as GM, but as head coach, they have a long and happy history together. I think if Hemsky is dealt, it would be disingenuous to consider ‘remaking [the roster] in his own image] as being a factor in any way.

    Rommy:Tell this to Horcoff.

    I said I don’t think “his own image” is the reason Hemsky could be traded due to history with MacT. You provided Horcoff as evidence to counter my point. Ergo, you implied causality. Your words.

    I’ve agreed with most of what you’ve said since then, but you still made that initial case and that initial case is still logically indefensible.

  57. hags9k says:

    Ageed trading Hemsky for picks is crazy. At some point we have to get off the picks prospects treadmill before Hall falls off the other side. 83 must have quietly told them he wants to move on. When we start to become competitive we will need someone just like him. This is so frustrating.

  58. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: This could be the case if he had (or believed he had) an extended timeline to tinker, blow it up and start from scratch and rebuild the rebuild. It is highly unlikely that this is his mandate.

    I’m talking about the team as a whole minus the core. I thought that was understood… but then I didn’t expect my words to be laboriously poured over today.

    So, let me make that clear too: the team he received from Tambo, beyond whomever he deems his core, either has been or is likely to be gone very soon.

  59. icecastles says:

    In other news, I’m getting absolutely no work done here, to debate a point of semantics whose underlying issue we actually probably agree on. Oh internet, you so funny.

  60. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: So, let me make that clear too: the team he received from Tambo, beyond whomever he deems his core, either has been or is likely to be gone very soon.

    This I agree with completely.

  61. Pouzar says:

    Considering the price for Schneider ( 1st + Eminem) I shudder to think what Gillis is asking for Kesler.

    Not happening but it’s fun to dream.

  62. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: Here:

    I said I don’t think “his own image” is the reason Hemsky could be traded due to history with MacT. You provided Horcoff as evidence to counter my point. Ergo, you implied causality. Your words.

    I’ve agreed with most of what you’ve said since then, but you still made that initial case and that initial case is still logically indefensible.

    argle bargle.

    I never said Hemsky would be traded BECAUSE he didn’t fit MacT’s image.

    ———
    I said

    “Horcoff!”

    As an example of a player in MacT’s image that got traded.

    I said this to demonstrate that I WASN’T making the causal argument you are convinced I’m making.

    ———
    I’m saying, one last time, two things are happening… gut team; re-make team in image.

    2 doesn’t imply those players culled are moved because they don’t fit MacT’s image. I’ve never said this here, I’m not saying it now.
    ———
    that’s it.

    You are free to disagree… but stop arguing with phantoms. it’s irritating.

  63. Hammers says:

    Trades will happen so wait and see . Re our current “D” and the charts there are some big questions . Petry & Schultz don’t show that well with certain partners at least until MM started playing with Petry and I wonder why Eakins hasn’t tried Martin with Justin . Somehow I see that as a better pairing . For me Belov with all his warts is a better option than anyone else but Ference perhaps. In fact I wouldn’t be upset if McT traded the rest of the bunch .OUR “D” is still our biggest problem as it has been for years .

  64. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles:
    In other news, I’m getting absolutely no work done here, to debate a point of semantics whose underlying issue we actually probably agree on. Oh internet, you so funny.

    sounds like my afternoon too!
    :)

    let’s trade Cheechop for Kesler!

  65. Ducey says:

    russ99:
    fifthcartel,

    Man, Kesler would cure a lot of what ails us, but I think the chance of that happening is pretty much nil unless MacT takes all leave of his senses and is led behind the woodshed by Gillis.

    Kesler has a no trade clause. He is not coming here at this stage of the rebuild.

    Plus Gillis won’t trade with the Oilers, even if its his best deal.

  66. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: let’s trade Cheechop for Kesler!

    Yes!
    Also, Weber would help us so much. Why hasn’t anyone suggested trading Nultz for him?

    We’d be way better GMs.

  67. PaperDesigner says:

    Would Gagner + Klefbom get it done for Kesler? It’d give Vancouver an immediate replacement with term, plus a strong, near ready prospect at another position.

  68. gvblackhawk says:

    icecastles:
    In other news, I’m getting absolutely no work done here, to debate a point of semantics whose underlying issue we actually probably agree on. Oh internet, you so funny.

    You guys work? I’ve always wondered what kind of job allows Rom to post on Lowetide all day.

  69. Pouzar says:

    PaperDesigner,

    Not a chance.

  70. gvblackhawk says:

    PaperDesigner:
    Would Gagner + Klefbom get it done for Kesler? It’d give Vancouver an immediate replacement with term, plus a strong, near ready prospect at another position.

    You forgot to add the Oiler tax that Gillis would charge. They would ask for the Oilers 1st round pick, which is too much for two years worth of Kesler.

  71. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: You are free to disagree… but stop arguing with phantoms. it’s irritating.

    In fairness Rom, you’ve kept the debate going just as much as I. Please don’t call it irritating when we are both equally culpable in continuing it. You can always walk away from a debate if you’re not enjoying it. Don’t cast it aside as irritating once it goes on longer than you’d like.

    You know what I do when an online debate gets irritating? I leave and do something else. We’re presumably both here because this is enjoyable and interesting. I certainly don’t come to LT for name-calling, and I don’t think you do either.

  72. ashley says:

    I don’t mind Kesler the player. I’m not a fan of Kesler the person.

  73. icecastles says:

    ashley: I don’t mind Kesler the player. I’m not a fan of Kesler the person.

    Nicely put. I had to chew on this one for a moment… I like to think that I hate Kessler the player as well, but it’s not as true as I’d like to be. When I ask, “would I still hate him if he were an Oiler?” the answer is a definite no.Douche that he is, I’d probably love having him in orange and blue. Like we say about Perron, he’s a jerk, but he’s our jerk.

  74. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: In fairness Rom, you’ve kept the debate going just as much as I. Please don’t call it or my posts irritating when we are both equally culpable in continuing it. You can always walk away from a debate if you’re not enjoying it. Don’t cast it aside as irritating once it goes on longer than you’d like.

    You know what I do when an online debate gets irritating? I leave and do something else. We’re presumably both here because this is enjoyable and interesting. I certainly don’t come to LT for name-calling, and I don’t think you do either.

    I didn’t call you any names and failing to make myself clear was incredibly irritating.

    You didn’t seem to show much willingness to take me at my word, that was also irritating. But saying that is pretty far from name calling.

    At any rate, I thought we already had moved on.

  75. Pouzar says:

    Unlikeable Shutdown Center who can score????? Yes Please.

  76. gvblackhawk says:

    ashley:
    I don’t mind Kesler the player.I’m not a fan of Kesler the person.

    You know him well enough to dislike him as a person?

  77. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I thought we already had moved on

    We have now. Peace, hugs and high fives. But I don’t feel like getting real work done…

    Hey we should gang up on Bookjie next. That damn troll with his unpronouncable name. :D

  78. icecastles says:

    gvblackhawk: You know him well enough to dislike him as a person?

    Can any Canuck really be thought of as a “person”?

  79. hunter1909 says:

    So draft picks even 1st round ones aren’t any good, then at another time Lowetide himself waxes and wanes about all of the 4th and 5th round picks MacT might be lucky to get for Luke Gadzik non-star players…as if by his own logic polarity reverses every time the TRUTH of Lowe+old time dynasty plough horse players being rotten at managing an NHL team grows nearer – of course it’s only been 15 years or whatever since they took over.

    Smart men draft + develop good players. Dumbasses like Lowe hardly ever succeed at this.

  80. AZOIL says:

    I would love Iginla but isn’t he playing top 6 in Bos? Is it just a 1yr deal? What is he making on that 1 year?

    OilClog:
    Does MacT dare approach Jerome for the 3rd RW spot.

    Gritty, hits, still scores, can move up in a pinch.

    I’ll shed a few tears seeing Hemsky leave town, favorite Oiler since Weight, replacing him with Iggy in the offseason wouldn’t kill me.

  81. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: Can any Canuck really be thought of as a “person”?

    Only Bure and the Sedins.

    I love those guys. Maybe Cliff Ronning.

    Otherwise, this is exactly right.

  82. FastOil says:

    rickithebear: secondary scoring? LOL!
    Secondary Assisting!

    Serious issues if you can not see the diffrence!

    Higgins and Kesler are shooters, might bolster their second line nicely. Then sign him back in the summer. Although it would be nice to see him with a shot at the Cup.

  83. hunter1909 says:

    hags9k: 83 must have quietly told them he wants to move on. When we start to become competitive we will need someone just like him. This is so frustrating.

    Hemsky has Eberle + Yakupov clearly ahead of him in the batting order.

    Hemksy simply isn’t a bottom 6 player.

    Hemsky isn’t so dumb, that he can’t count to two. We can assume he’s happy to ship out.

  84. FastOil says:

    fifthcartel: fifth

    Please no

  85. OilClog says:

    AZOIL:
    I would love Iginla but isn’t he playing top 6 in Bos? Is it just a 1yr deal? What is he making on that 1 year?

    He’s making around 5 I think, too lazy to check lol. He has been playing time between the 2nd and 3rd in Boston. He has everything in a forward I would be looking to add to this group in the offseason.

  86. AZOIL says:

    So true, Hemsky is not an idiot and when he gets traded I know everyone is going to erupt but the guys wants out, I guarantee it! He is being classy about it and isn’t going to the media but he can play in the top 6 on most other teams and likely make more money as a result because his scoring will go up along with his demand. Sure i hope we get as much as we can for him, but because we play him on our third we have actually lowered his value a little! Someone like pittsburgh who is desperate to fill the skates of dupuis would be the best bet and I’m guessing Shero and MacT are playing a little poker right now seeing who blinks first. I hope?

    hunter1909: Hemsky has Eberle + Yakupov clearly ahead of him in the batting order.

    Hemksy simply isn’t a bottom 6 player.

    Hemsky isn’t so dumb, that he can’t count to two. We can assume he’s happy to ship out.

  87. TheOtherJohn says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Only Bure and the Sedins.

    I love those guys. Maybe Cliff Ronning.

    Otherwise, this is exactly right.

    Trevor Linnden, Stan Smyl, …..end of list

    If Kesler has a NTC he is NOT coming to Edmonton

  88. book¡je says:

    icecastles: We have now. Peace, hugs and high fives. But I don’t feel like getting real work done…

    Hey we should gang up on Bookjie next. That damn troll with his unpronouncable name.

    Ducks, weaves, bobs, slips, bangs head, passes out… down for the count…

  89. book¡je says:

    icecastles:
    In other news, I’m getting absolutely no work done here, to debate a point of semantics whose underlying issue we actually probably agree on. Oh internet, you so funny.

    Someone is wrong on the internet!!!

  90. Melman says:

    gvblackhawk: You know him well enough to dislike him as a person?

    It’s a non-issue b/c he’d never waive his NTC to go to Edm., but from a “theoretical” POV as great a player as he is you’d need VERY strong leadership in the room as you would not want his off-ice personality spoiling the stew.

  91. Ducey says:

    icecastles:

    Hey we should gang up on Bookjie next. That damn troll with his unpronouncable name.

    Okay good. This will be fun.

    Hmmm.

    He spelled potatoes wrong earlier in the thread…and he still has a crush on Ralph Kreuger.

    Uh,…. thats all I have.

  92. sliderule says:

    I don’t think you can compare trading Cogliano and Hemsky for a second.

    One was stupid management of an durable asset who was just heading into his prime vs getting market value for a player often injured and on downhill slide..

  93. Yeti says:

    Hemsky leaving will be just deserts for MacT’s devilish decade-old campaign to turn him into a checker.

  94. art vandelay says:

    Kesler to Edmonton?
    I don’t think so.
    Players with NTCs don’t get traded TO the Edmonton Expos.

  95. Ducey says:

    Kesler now says he never said he wanted out and wants to stay with the Canucks. His agent said the same yesterday.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444824

  96. RexLibris says:

    Kesler’s saying that he wants to stay, but these stories about him wanting out keep leaking to the media.

    Based on recent Canucks management history, I’m beginning to think that Gillis has something going on here. The storylines aren’t matching up. If he really wanted out why would Kesler go to the trouble of denying media reports?

  97. Captain Smarmy says:

    Ducey: Okay good. This will be fun.

    Hmmm.

    He spelled potatoes wrong earlier in the thread…and he still has a crush on Ralph Kreuger.

    Uh,…. thats all I have.

    Potato looks better that way and Ralph Kreuger owns pretty hard so I guess bookster is scott free.

  98. Captain Smarmy says:

    RexLibris:
    Kesler’s saying that he wants to stay, but these stories about him wanting out keep leaking to the media.

    Based on recent Canucks management history, I’m beginning to think that Gillis has something going on here. The storylines aren’t matching up. If he really wanted out why would Kesler go to the trouble of denying media reports?

    Canuck fans are awful so he might take the time to say that so he doesn’t get booed, punched in a bar or have his church vandalized.

    haha like Kesler goes to church unless it’s in hell.

  99. Hammers says:

    Kesler has a NTC and there is NO way he will go to a Canadian city let alone Edmonton . Lets not forget his famous words after the 2010 Olympics ” I hate Canadians ” and like Torts just did he said it was in anger bla bla bla ,not what he ment but he said it . My guess is if he goes its Philly ; Detroit or Columbus .

  100. Ducey says:

    RexLibris:
    Kesler’s saying that he wants to stay, but these stories about him wanting out keep leaking to the media.

    Based on recent Canucks management history, I’m beginning to think that Gillis has something going on here. The storylines aren’t matching up. If he really wanted out why would Kesler go to the trouble of denying media reports?

    The possibility (probability) exists that he never said he wanted out, that Gillis never wanted to trade him, and that its just a rumour made up by some twit on the internet.

    Otherwise its Gillis or another GM (maybe Lombardi has moved off of creating Gagner rumours) trying to stir up a trade. In which case Kesler basically just reminded them he has a no trade and isn’t going anywhere he doesn’t want to.

  101. spoiler says:

    Ducey: Kesler now says he never said he wanted out and wants to stay with the Canucks. His agent said the same yesterday.
    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444824

    Considering just two days before the rumour broke that Gillis told cameras his main goal at the deadline was to find someone to play WITH Kesler, it all seemed a bit baseless to me…

  102. Ducey says:

    A story on 2014 top draft prospects. Bennett, Ekblad, Reinhart, Virtanen, Ritchie all trending up. Draisaitl trending down.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/scouts-dish-on-kids-for-the-2014-nhl-draft/

  103. Cameron says:

    OilClog,

    AZOIL:
    I would love Iginla but isn’t he playing top 6 in Bos? Is it just a 1yr deal? What is he making on that 1 year?

    Jarome is currently pulling down $1.8M in base salary, with another $4.2M in ‘incentives’ (presumably reachable targets in games played, goals, points, etc.)

    I believe his ‘cap hit’ is the full $6M.

  104. DeadmanWaking says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    The fact that he’s going to re-make the team in is image is related to them only insofar as their removal grants him the blank piece of paper he wants to write on.

    So far as I can tell, your argument concerning the blank piece of paper is circular. Certainly he wants to change the team’s identity. For a team long mired in losing, that’s a hard thing to achieve without injecting some new blood.

    It’s not obvious to me that any desire for a “blank sheet” entered into this.

    Every GM, given enough time, will accumulate players he values more than everyone else. That’s just basic economics. Only the ardent win a bidding war. This holds even with no emotional bias, so long as rational judgement encompasses room to differ.

    In the software world there was an era in the late eighties and early nineties where all the children were warned about blank-sheet software redesign: sure it will be 1000x better, but it will never ship.

    Those older systems contained a tremendous amount of baggage due to their impoverished origins: the original architect had only 4 MB of RAM on his main development system! Some of the clever concessions to insufficiency were extremely brittle. With small changes, the performance of the system would go to hell. It was intellectually demanding to master all this past baggage, then figure out how to incrementally adjust your golf swing on the way to greener pastures.

    It was common for someone young, smart, and ambitious to just assume he could rewrite the entire system from scratch with all that baggage discarded.

    The problem is that all that baggage also contained something else: hard won knowledge about imperfections in the real world that your new design was also going to need to accommodate. The deeper problem is that in many of those legacy systems, it was nearly impossible to read the source code to a function and determine which convolutions were concessions to insufficiency (either of resources, or cluefulness, or time available) and which represented hard-won victories over the ugliness of the real world. Your idealized mental model of what those old data files contain falls far short of the true hideousness of the legacy you’re expected to support.

    If you’re not astute or experienced, your white sheet / green field design is soon floundering on the same rocks, and soon accumulating an equally horrific barnacle undercoat. You won’t get back that glorious year of re-inventing madly.

    The real wisdom here is that there wasn’t an easy answer to these problems. Some software truly was too ugly to live. But on the whole, the pendulum swung to where too many serviceable nags were sent to the glue factory.

    MacT isn’t some young whippersnapper who thinks he smarter than these guys just because he steps straight out of college into the promised land of 25×80 coding nirvana.

    Suppose I’m brought in to replace the previous architect, who was himself busy gutting and rewriting the worst of the legacy which he was best suited to address.

    Probably I’m going to have different strengths (that should be the case, to bring maximum value to the change) and something the previous guy never managed to uproot is going to be my very first project, after gaining my bearings enough not to shoot myself in the foot.

    I can tell you for damn certain I’m too old to let a white sheet of paper get anywhere near my docket. If it takes more than selective, elective surgery I’d rather continue limping along with the colostomy bag. The old war-horse ideal for change is brisk, contained, measured, and as comprehensive as it takes to get to where you want to go.

    Logic or not, I don’t see where your forced narrative of auteurial fresh beginnings contributes insight.

  105. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: Who is Hope Smoke?

    Hope Smoke is a Toronto twitterer who listens to Toronto radio and passes along all the verbal. A must follow on twitter. Amazing what the big smoke gets daily.

  106. cabbiesmacker says:

    Ducey: Who is Hope Smoke?

    Holy’s sister

  107. hunter1909 says:

    DeadmanWaking: Your idealized mental model of what those old data files contain falls far short of the true hideousness of the legacy you’re expected to support.
    If you’re not astute or experienced, your white sheet / green field design is soon floundering on the same rocks, and soon accumulating an equally horrific barnacle undercoat. You won’t get back that glorious year of re-inventing madly.

    One lousy year? This reads like the post-A list biography of Norma Desmond.

  108. Ribs says:

    More smoke…

    @RealKyper verified
    #RedWings #Penguins #Rangers interested in Kesler. No shortage of offers starting 2 come in for #Canucks. I’m leaning towards a trade by Wed

  109. Pouzar says:

    “Sabres defenseman Christian Ehrhoff is also being dangled and could be traded by the March 5 trade deadline. ”

    http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/buf140227.html

  110. sliderule says:

    Ducey:
    A story on 2014 top draft prospects.Bennett, Ekblad, Reinhart, Virtanen, Ritchie all trending up.Draisaitl trending down.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/scouts-dish-on-kids-for-the-2014-nhl-draft/

    Everyone who is interested in oilers draft should read that.

    I didn’t like Drasaitl in WJC but I have reviewed him several times in the prospect game and he looks a lot better.those that have seen him a lot what are his hands like?

    Virtanen really showed a lot in prospect game great speed and wicked shot.Lots of size and a mean streak but a winger.

    Bennett is playing mostly wing so I would think the oilers rank Reinhart and Ekblad and maybe even Draisaitl ahead of him.

  111. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    DeadmanWaking: Logic or not, I don’t see where your forced narrative of auteurial fresh beginnings contributes insight.

    The fault lies in your own projections and assumptions.

    If we are going to be forced to elaborate every bit of banal insight around here from now on, I suspect the tedium might reach fever dream potential.

    Simple point: new GMs, MacT included, tend to re-make their teams, the personnel. MacT has already proved he’s no different in this regard.

    http://lowetide.ca/blog/2014/02/last-look-at-the-national-cowboy-museum.html

    This is a complete non-starter truism.

    Since he took the job and told us about having to piss a drop on the 4th line; exposing himself to risk; and helping vets find a second life… we’ve known this. And, we’ve been seeing it happen.

    All this roster clearance gives new GMs a blank slate to work with. As I already acknowledged this is a really obvious and hyperbolic metaphor. This doesn’t include the core MacT identified early on. It’s simply a way of noting that new GMs make a lot more noise than the status quo.

    Blank slate here isn’t meant to suggest MacT is going to trade or not-re-sign everyone and start from nothing.

    And, it sure as hell says nothing about management philosophy… which never came up. I never said MacT was going to abandon the learning of past men. Nothing of the sort.

    If you want to challenge the truism: have at it.
    If you think it’s a simple banality: I agree with you. Never presented it as more than that.

    Everything else is silly. But, then, I’m a very silly person. Life’s more fun that way.

  112. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    During the Leafs game, the SN crew spent a lot of time talking about Kesler and then finally got around to showing Kesler himself saying, basically: fuck off guys, this is BS.

    So… good luck with that Ryan!

  113. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    A story on 2014 top draft prospects.Bennett, Ekblad, Reinhart, Virtanen, Ritchie all trending up.Draisaitl trending down.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/scouts-dish-on-kids-for-the-2014-nhl-draft/

    Those quotes on Draisaitl are priceless:

    Another scout who was crossing over from Ontario was even more damning: “I would have trouble taking him. I don’t think he’s made the transition from the European game. Too soft. Not that I say that about all European players—I give him points for going to the Dub. But I wouldn’t want to draft him and hope that he changes. Other guys are already there.”

    This is his second full season in the WHL. Draisaitl is 7th in WHL scoring in his draft year. I’d say he’s doing pretty well in that league, if ever there was a question about it.

    Someone’s going to get an enigmatic European discount.

  114. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    BTW another European player was knocked for being too soft too:

    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?4984

    maybe when you have the puck all the time you look soft to some scouts.

  115. sliderule says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I never noticed Draisatl that much in first viewing of prospect game but. In a couple of reviews I saw a lot of good stuff.
    He is not too physical but he doesn’t shy away like MPS used to.

  116. The Great One says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Those quotes on Draisaitl are priceless:

    This is his second full season in the WHL. Draisaitl is 7th in WHL scoring in his draft year. I’d say he’s doing pretty well in that league, if ever there was a question about it.

    Someone’s going to get an enigmatic European discount.

    Detroit?

  117. Ben says:

    Myers is the exact sort of “buy relatively low, hopefully” kind of deal MacT should be in on.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444838

  118. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    So… the last 5 mins or so of this leafs-Isles game is nuts. flurry of goals.

    The Great One: Detroit?

    I don’t think he slips that far. If he falls out of the top 10 I’d be flabbergasted. probably go 4-7.

  119. hunter1909 says:

    Ben:
    Myers is the exact sort of “buy relatively low, hopefully” kind of deal MacT should be in on.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=444838

    Gagner, Hemsky + a prospect I’ll be offering from now until deadline day.

  120. The Great One says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    So… the last 5 mins or so of this leafs-Isles game is nuts. flurry of goals.

    I don’t think he slips that far. If he falls out of the top 10 I’d be flabbergasted. probably go 4-7.

    There’s always one player than drops precipitously.

    I’d wager its him.

  121. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The Great One: There’s always one player than drops precipitously.

    I’d wager its him.

    I think it already is Nylander. Though ISS still has him high.

    And, there’s no rule more than one player can’t tumble :)

  122. Ben says:

    Leon Couturier, come on down.

  123. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Vis ends it for the Isles.

    Odd that he is cleared to play so soon after the olympics.

    so… they lose tonight’s tank battle. ha.

  124. Pouzar says:

    Islanders keepin it real.

  125. fuzzy muppet says:

    Same ol Oilers….

    Prettty sure that’s Yak’s fault*

  126. Marcus Oilerius says:

    Did Hall just show us why he wasn’t selected for the Olympic squad?

  127. VanOil says:

    Eakins needs to work on tactics. If you start thugs, you might end up short handed and not be able to get your stars into the game early. If you respond to goals against by sending out your 4th line a goal for is not a likely scenario.

  128. tcho says:

    Kinda fun to see RNH and Hall mixing it up a bit.

  129. Pouzar says:

    1st line bullies!

  130. hunter1909 says:

    oilers losing which the 1st overall pick addict that those of us who’ve all inadvertently become likes.

    Fun game anyway, as Wild REALLY need this gimme.

  131. Kitchener says:

    Marcus Oilerius,

    Yep, but it’s awesome. NHL is a different game.

    Here’s hoping Belov brought his Mojo back from Russia.

  132. hunter1909 says:

    I’d love the kids to all return from the break playing goon hockey. That way they learn how to defend themselves, and the team tanks for Ekblad.

  133. Pouzar says:

    Gagner does some weird sh!t with the puck sometimes…just drills on the side board right to a “Wild” on the PP

  134. B.C.B says:

    Maybe it is just me but I was thinking that the only advantage that trading Hemsky for a First round pick is that it give MacT insurance in trading the lottery pick for a position of need. Likely that #1 D cost a good young player and the lottery pick (plus a prospect or two), and that is a heavy price. Having a late first round pick means that the oilers will still come out of the draft with a solid long term prospect. Is that crazy?

  135. Ben says:

    Oil should trade for Doughty and Weber and Keith and Hamhuis and Boumeester and Pietrangelo.

  136. fuzzy muppet says:

    I forgot how bad these guys are.

  137. RexLibris says:

    Ben:
    Oil should trade for Doughty and Weber and Keith and Hamhuis and Boumeester and Pietrangelo.

    Absolutely. But how are they supposed to do that without Omark now?

  138. RexLibris says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    I forgot how bad these guys are.

    Are you watching the Flames?

  139. dangilitis says:

    “The only reason I can see to justify Hemsky’s exit for draft picks is:

    his refusal to sign an extension”

    LT – I think you forgot to add to that last bit …. “at reasonable coin”

    What makes you think MacT is getting this wrong?
    Is there anyone out there who is saying he is willing to sign for 3 million a year? If David fucking Clarkson is getting paid what he is, and Bolland thinks he’s getting similar, why the hell would Hemsky sign for less than 5 mil/season?

    I love Hemsky and would be happy for him to sign at 3 million, even for long-term. I think he surprises everyone and remains productive until late 30′s.

    But… where all our talk about losing him for draft picks is going wonky is:
    A) We assume he enjoys playing in Edmonton and doesn’t think the grass is greener anywhere else
    B) We assume he would happily accept 3rd line minutes for the next 5 years at 3 mil/yr

    Both these assumptions assume he is a masochist. No one here on this blog makes that money, I assume, so we think he is being greedy, but I think he would be stupid to leave 10 million over the next 5 years on the table to play for a team that has dragged him through the mud for the better part of a decade now.

    So I start with the assumption, that for once and for all, he actually gets that Edmonton is not necessarily the best home for him anymore, despite all his fond memories in his early 20s. And that he’s no dummy.

    Trading Hemsky was not MacT’s mistake to make, it is the Oilers’ management from 2006 until now that should collectively be blamed for not “keeping a good player,” because they have made this team a misery to play for.

    I will remember Hemsky as an Oiler for his masochism – for never backing down from the dirty areas, for willfully battling a losing war for 8 years without any cover, and for staying with this team and city despite every reason to do the opposite. Oh, and the ridiculous dangles and the Dallas game-tying goal and the Detroit series.

    Now, if you have some evidence that Hemsky would play here in his current role at an affordable coin and MacT is trading him for magic beans, then, seriously, the team should fire MacTavish.

  140. hunter1909 says:

    Hall+Eberle playing like it’s the AHL…which in so many ways it is for them.

    Gagner’s far removed from that 8 point game. What the fuck ever happened to his development? He reminds me of Todd Marchant – offensively.

  141. Ben says:

    RexLibris: Absolutely. But how are they supposed to do that without Omark now?

    Offer sheet Subban 12×12. Trade Subban to Frolunda for Omark. Done. Boom.

  142. RexLibris says:

    How does this trade sound: Kyle Brodziak and Darcy Kuemper for Kyle Bigos and Olivier Roy?

    *grumbleTambellinigrumblegrumble*

  143. hunter1909 says:

    B.C.B:
    Maybe it is just me but I was thinking that the only advantage that trading Hemsky for a First round pick is that it give MacT insurance in trading the lottery pick for a position of need.Likely that #1 D cost a good young player and the lottery pick (plus a prospect or two), and that is a heavy price.Having a late first round pick means that the oilers will still come out of the draft with a solid long term prospect.Is that crazy?

    Other than it makes no sense whatsoever, it’s perfectly sane. You’re an oilers fan.

  144. Zangetsu says:

    Did you see ekblad talking. Thats what we need. Basic defensive understanding.

  145. spoiler says:

    Ben: Offer sheet Subban 12×12. Trade Subban to Frolunda for Omark. Done. Boom.

    Oh this made me laugh. Thank you.

  146. Lowetide says:

    Rusty first period for the Oilers looked addled.

  147. Kitchener says:

    fuzzy muppet:
    I forgot how bad these guys are.

    Team Canada’s zone exits were a thing of beauty. Completed passes & smart plays over and over again. Enough to make a grown man weep.

  148. book¡je says:

    Lowetide:
    Rusty, first period for the Oilers, looked addled.

    Who’s Rusty, and why did he look addled?

  149. RexLibris says:

    We’ve all been talking so much about Hemsky, what ought the Oilers offer Belov to return?

    I don’t think we can seriously entertain the idea that the blueline can suffer his departure as well as N. Schultz, Potter and Fraser and not take a step back (if that is even possible any more).

    So what is he worth and for how long?

  150. hunter1909 says:

    Ben:
    Oil should trade for Doughty and Weber and Keith and Hamhuis and Boumeester and Pietrangelo.

    Finally. A cool head enters the room.

    art vandelay: Players with NTCs don’t get traded TO the Edmonton Expos.

    There’s this voice that tells me Lowe+MacT eventually are going to realize there will never be another dynasty, after about 3-5 more years of dismal returns. At that point a 2006 failsafe backup plan then switches on, and they turn mad Mike Milbury, tossing everything away on that single big chance to play in a final series, without one of their own players destroying Roloson’s knee, etc.

    Marcus Oilerius:
    Did Hall just show us why he wasn’t selected for the Olympic squad?

    Hall+Eberle know that they have nothing to gain by risking injury at the end of a hopeless season. They’re coasting, like any self respecting star player does.

  151. RexLibris says:

    book¡je: Who’s Rusty, and why did he look addled?

    I figured he was talking about Reddox and assumed I’d missed a game-time lineup change.

  152. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris:
    We’ve all been talking so much about Hemsky, what ought the Oilers offer Belov to return?

    I don’t think we can seriously entertain the idea that the blueline can suffer his departure as well as N. Schultz, Potter and Fraser and not take a step back (if that is even possible any more).

    So what is he worth and for how long?

    2 X 1.5?

  153. VanOil says:

    Kitchener: Completed passes

    But were they truculent? Hendricks playing a minute more than Yak in the first period proves we will not be pushed around in the tank battle.

  154. RexLibris says:

    Raptors and Washington are in 3OT.

    I might actually watch basketball.

    Meh, or not.

  155. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: 2 X 1.5?

    Is that enough for him, though?

    I was thinking the contract probably starts at $2 million. And to be perfectly frank, I would keep it at one year. So maybe one year at $2.25 million?

  156. Ben says:

    Jesus. Principe looks like he should be holding a $15 Parking sign twelve blocks from Commonwealth before a pre-season game. Get a trim, Jim!

  157. Ben says:

    Hall was looking for a penalty call on Yak there.

  158. hunter1909 says:

    Yakupov + Hall = Yin and Yang.

  159. RexLibris says:

    Marincin needs to go on an altered version of the Paleo diet – nothing but Brontosaurus Burgers for a few months.

  160. theres oil in virginia says:

    LT, why do you hate Rusty?

  161. Ben says:

    Taylor Hall. Wondeful talent. Dynamic scorer. Weak as a kitten on the puck in the defensive zone.

  162. hunter1909 says:

    Why the fuck is Gagner even playing on the power play??

  163. VanOil says:

    Is that the second penalty Yak has drawn? Center Ice is buggy tonight, Sportsnet is buggy at best.

  164. Pouzar says:

    ANother stupid play by Gagner on the PP…all he had to do was cycle back to Eberle….easy play…but he throws it out to a “Wild” again…anyone else watchin this? I just don’t get it

  165. hunter1909 says:

    Nice to have NHL hockey back, after the terrible olympic hockey.

    bwahahahahahahahahaha

  166. Pouzar says:

    Yak playin a nice game tonite

  167. spoiler says:

    Damn, I really wanted to say Stoner smoked Gazdic, but it went the other way.

  168. delooper says:

    Gazdic is pretty decent in his role. Wish there was more positives tonight.

  169. book¡je says:

    I was pretty worried. 5-1-1 I tyrupted by a break. Followed by a mini training camp.

    Anybody who has followed this team for the last 20 years knows that this is when the wheels fall off and they win only one of the twenty games left.

  170. sliderule says:

    Eberle puck watching.

  171. book¡je says:

    delooper:
    Gazdic is pretty decent in his role.Wish there was more positives tonight.

    Yes, we shod probably trade for the best juggler and the best snooker player in the league!

  172. delooper says:

    book¡je: Yes, we shod probably trade for the best juggler and the best snooker player in the league!

    If history is any guide, that type of player will be available on waivers.

  173. theres oil in virginia says:

    Louie is determined that somebody from the Wild is going out and not coming back into this game.

  174. VanOil says:

    Extraskater reporting Smyth, Gadzook and Jones reporting an impressive 0% CF% at the half way point in the game. http://www.extraskater.com/game/2014-02-27-wild-oilers

  175. Ben says:

    Can’t believe that this bumbly-wumbly team has kept a gamer like Ales Hemsky out of the playoffs from the ages of 22-30. Honestly can’t wait to watch him back there this year.

  176. Lowetide says:

    Luke Gazdic HAS to be Mark Spector’s favorite player by now.

  177. hunter1909 says:

    From what I’ve seen so far tonight, it’s Reinhart or Ekblad for sure.

  178. jp says:

    That hit/penalty was kinda awesome!

  179. hunter1909 says:

    Hahahaha Scrivens that was so close to going viral.

  180. Pouzar says:

    Gagner…again just hands it to the Wild defender. WTF.

  181. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    Luke Gazdic HAS to be Mark Spector’s favorite player by now.

    Sounds Latvian, so probably.

  182. Pouzar says:

    Well that’s about as much as I can take for tonight. g’nite

  183. Professor Q says:

    RexLibris:
    Marincin needs to go on an altered version of the Paleo diet – nothing but Brontosaurus Burgers for a few months.

    Brontosaurus were Jurassic, not Palaeolithic…

  184. RexLibris says:

    I joked over at FN that after Brown’s goal Sutter would tell his team to just shut things down for the remaining 50-odd minutes of the game.

    2 minutes to go in the 2nd…still 1-0.

    You can’t even joke about this L.A. team any more.

  185. delooper says:

    If you look back at all the waived players over the past 10 years, and imagine one could magically assemble them all on a team when those players are in their prime, could you produce a better team than the current Oilers? Or if you replace 10 by n, how large does n have to be?

  186. RexLibris says:

    Professor Q: Brontosaurus were Jurassic, not Palaeolithic…

    Yes, I know. It was a poor attempt at hybridizing a diet trend, a Flintstones reference, and Oiler humour.

    How about Mammoth Steaks?

  187. speeds says:

    Out of curiosity, what’s the case for keeping Scrivens past the deadline if EDM can’t get him signed by then? Assuming he carries decent enough trade value to be worth moving. EDM can offer him a job and money now. If Scrivens won’t sign prior to the deadline, what changes after Mar 5 but prior to July 1?

  188. jp says:

    VanOil:
    Extraskater reporting Smyth, Gadzook and Jones reporting an impressive 0% CF% at the half way point in the game. http://www.extraskater.com/game/2014-02-27-wild-oilers

    Low event at least (0-2, 0-3, 0-2). So long as you don’t look at the rate per minute (~-1.0 CF%/min).

    But check out Marincin-Petry again. Wow. Only guys at 50%. Again.

    I’ve only caught the past 10 min, but why aren’t those two playing 30 min a night?

  189. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris: Is that enough for him, though?

    I was thinking the contract probably starts at $2 million. And to be perfectly frank, I would keep it at one year. So maybe one year at $2.25 million?

    That’s probably closer to reality.

    1 year is fine. I’d probably go 2 if you can shave the price a little.

  190. delooper says:

    jp:
    I’ve only caught the past 10 min, but why aren’t those two playing 30 min a night?

    They probably both feel a little out of their depth playing the top pairing role.

  191. icecastles says:

    hunter1909: Hall+Eberle know that they have nothing to gain by risking injury at the end of a hopeless season. They’re coasting, like any self respecting star player does.

    Sometimes I read a comment on here and think, “Oh no, is this true?”

    Then I scroll up, see who wrote it, and breathe a sigh of relief that it’s probably not.

  192. oliveoilers says:

    Perhaps now’s the time DE unveils the ‘impossible to defend against’ power play. He did remember to tell the players what it was, didn’t he?

    Why am I starting to hate this team…….

  193. spoiler says:

    speeds: Out of curiosity, what’s the case for keeping Scrivens past the deadline if EDM can’t get him signed by then? Assuming he carries decent enough trade value to be worth moving. EDM can offer him a job and money now. If Scrivens won’t sign prior to the deadline, what changes after Mar 5 but prior to July 1?

    I dunno, but here’s Tim Wharnsby of CBC’s thoughts:

    Players like goalie Ben Scrivens and defenceman Anton Belov, who played for the Russian Olympic team in Sochi, will use the final 22 games as an audition to stick in Edmonton.

  194. jp says:

    Mark Spector is such an F’ing idiot. I’m glad I don’t have to watch him more often.

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