OILERS AT BLUES, G67 13-14

I always liked the St. Louis Blues. Their uniforms were cool and they had a personality (the Blues, along with the Shero Flyers, wanted to kill you) that was personified by the Plager brothers. Billy, the youngest, was more a skill type defender and not tough like his older brothers. Bob was the guy who played before expansion, which in the early days of the era meant he was better (I have no idea if that’s true, it’s just that was the rule. Original 6—better!).

plager1

The Edmonton Oilers have several young defensemen on display at the NHL level now, and they could end up being the group we observe for the rest of the decade. Jeff Petry arrived early, Justin Schultz a year ago, Martin Marincin a few months ago, and Oscar Klefbom this week. The Oilers have Dillon Simpson (more on him in a minute) and Darnell Nurse on the way, and in pro hockey and a tier below these men are fellows like Brandon Davidson, David Musil and Martin Gernat.

That’s a large department of youth.

king quoteI believe there’s a very good chance Ekblad falls to the Oilers. The Sabres have a plethora of young blue and could use an elite-level center (Reinhart). Buffalo could trade down (say with Calgary) to block the Oilers, but those kinds of moves are much talked about but rarely happen. King’s point about Schultz (he mentioned it in another tweet) is that Schultz will get paid because boxcars but the defense is and may continue to be wobbly.

The Oilers love Schultz, this much we know.

The point by King is well made, though. Among Marincin, Klefbom, Nurse and Ekblad (and Simpson) the defensive side of the game contributes a lot to their value. I’d count a few of these men as “two-way” types but Klefbom would certainly be more of a defensive defenseman. If he spends 15 years in the NHL and doesn’t exceed Jason Smith’s peak season boxcars, can anyone be surprised?

simpson9

Dillon Simpson’s college career is coming to an end, I’m anxious to hear he has signed with the Oilers. This guy may have the talent to force himself into the mix sooner than later. It’ll be interesting to see the numbers he signs for, too. Travis Ewanyk signed for $670,000 plus $215,000 in signing bonus money (and $30,000 in performance dollars, $60,000 AHL salary) and is a decent comparable. Ewaynk was taken 18 spots before Simpson, so logic would dictate that (all things being equal) Simpson would be a little shy of those numbers. My guess is he signs a significantly superior contract.

gregor simpson

perron common1

David Perron returns to St. Louis tonight, says he’ll be nervous. The Perron acquisition is one of MacT’s best roster moves this season, despite the price. He’s a fun player to watch, what with his weird angle goals and pissing off the opposition. Fun player, great add. His goal the other night is a perfect example of the things he does well. Drive to the net, stick down. No fear. Hell, strike that. He pursues the opposition into the scoring areas. A wonderful player.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

tomei10

10 this morning, TSN 1260. Lots to chat about,  and the guest list is a moving target. Scheduled to appear:

  • Dennis King, Oilogosphere icon. We’ll talk GM meetings, and that item Dennis tweeted about the Oiler blue.
  • Neal Livingston, Tend The Farm. OKC Barons in a death struggle for the playoffs, Oil calling up their best. Neal vents, 10:25.
  • Corey Pronman, king of the prospect writers, ESPN and Hockey Prospectus. The 2014 draft is coming into view, we’ll get an update.
  • Aaron Bold, Edmonton Rush. The winning streak is still rolling, we’ll talk to Aaron about this dream season.

10-1260 via text, @Lowetide_ on twitter. See you on the radio!

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408 Responses to "OILERS AT BLUES, G67 13-14"

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  1. "Steve Smith" says:

    Ryan,

    I sometimes think that Schultz is reading game day threads while he’s on the ice.

  2. Lowetide says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Honest question: can anybody fathom why Scrivens signed an extension in Edmonton rather than at least testing free agency?Is it just the local boy thing, or does he really like being single-handedly responsible for 100% of the team’s wins?Or was he looking at this summer’s free agent goalie market?

    Please, I require your uninformed speculation!

    I think it’s probably a case of opportunity to create value. Scrivens is going to be the modern Gilles Meloche, only Meloche couldn’t get out

  3. delooper says:

    I keep on hearing Terasenko’s name. He must be a pretty good player.

  4. Ryan says:

    sliderule:
    Woodguy,

    On last nights Flame game Burke was raving about Cammallari’s work ethic in the gym.

    He was drafted at 182 and know at 31 weighs 190.that is a big gain for a guy 5 -9.

    Eberle at draft was listed at 185 he is now listed at 180 and he has lost an inch going from 6-0 to 5-11.

    The point is he can’t be busting at the gymas at best he hasn’t put on muscle masseven if his draft wt was inflated.

    Isn’t that because Struds said he used to be cut like a couch?

  5. spoiler says:

    That’s 2 GAON for Klefbom and he wasn’t at fault for either one.

  6. gvblackhawk says:

    sliderule:
    Don’t blame Dreger all those mainstream hacks get their stuff directly from oiler management and coaches.

    Makes sense that Oilers management would want to drive down Yakupov’s value prior to trading him…..

  7. Clarkenstein says:

    Grab some pine Nuge! No D commitment at all!

  8. Ryan says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Ryan,

    I sometimes think that Schultz is reading game day threads while he’s on the ice.

    Google Glass!

  9. Oilanderp says:

    Jeebus, you’d think that if the strategy was to ring it around the boards, a winger would be there to get it sometimes? WTF? Horrible breakouts!

  10. B S says:

    Holy crap there’s entire other end to the ice!

  11. Ryan says:

    Oilanderp:
    Jeebus, you’d think that if the strategy was to ring it around the boards, a winger would be there to get it sometimes?WTF?Horrible breakouts!

    Welcome to

    Offtheglassandout.com

  12. Oilanderp says:

    Damnit, now Hall’s trade value just decreased. *sigh*

  13. delooper says:

    B S:
    Holy crap there’s entire other end to the ice!

    I shall name it, Halland!

  14. delooper says:

    Ryan Smyth “goes dutch” and visits Halland.

  15. delooper says:

    Yakupov with the Gelinas play.

  16. Ryan says:

    This is just pure abuse.

  17. Ryan says:

    Absolute beat down.

  18. Bling says:

    Ryan Jones just did a better job tying up Sobotka than RNH has all night.

    Rough night for the Nuge, jeez.

  19. Ryan says:

    Games like this make me wonder why a team like the Oilers can’t just tap out.

  20. sliderule says:

    gvblackhawk,

    You have no idea how loose lipped some of the assistant coaches are.

  21. Bling says:

    Oilers 1-3-1 at the blueline is not working.

    The point of defence is to prevent zone entries, yes?

    That neutral zone formation is coming together at the Oilers blue line, and it’s creating all kinds of trouble. Three guys on the blue line not moving at all.

  22. delooper says:

    Tied game?

  23. icecastles says:

    How was that play not blown down. Yay for scoring but that’s pretty poor.

  24. Old School G says:

    Add ten pounds to Yak and we may just have ourselves the perfect nightmare.

  25. Oilanderp says:

    Fraser with the 6 year contract now!

  26. delooper says:

    Oilanderp:
    Fraser with the 6 year contract now!

    I don’t think anyone would argue that’s the kind of “dirty goal” the OIlers have been missing!

  27. striatic says:

    icecastles:
    How was that play not blown down. Yay for scoring but that’s pretty poor.

    That is a really tough call for the ref to make if he didn’t see the impact, which he probably didn’t.

    Should have been blown down, but put yourself in the Ref’s position, seeing a guy on the ice, not knowing why. Tough to make that split second call.

  28. spoiler says:

    Oilers win in Minnesota, Fraser scores a goal, a jetliner disappears… all these things could be related.

  29. Pouzar says:

    Another stupid pass by Gagner but he wins puck battles….oh wait

  30. spoiler says:

    striatic: That is a really tough call for the ref to make if he didn’t see the impact, which he probably didn’t.

    It happened right in front of the ref.

  31. flyfish1168 says:

    Would be nice to see Magnus hold the cup

  32. Pouzar says:

    Time for the Blues commentators to let it go. It’s a goal boyz

  33. The Great One says:

    Pouzar:
    Time for the Blues commentators to let it go. It’s a goal boyz

    Well, except for that pesky goaltender interference that wasn’t called.

  34. Lowetide says:

    spoiler:
    Oilers win in Minnesota, Fraser scores a goal, a jetliner disappears… all these things could be related.

    Gilligan!

  35. Ryan says:

    Bling:
    Oilers 1-3-1 at the blueline is not working.

    The point of defence is to prevent zone entries, yes?

    That neutral zone formation is coming together at the Oilers blue line, and it’s creating all kinds of trouble. Three guys on the blue line not moving at all.

    At some point, no matter how outmatched the Oilers are, that the coaching is subpar.

  36. Lucinius says:

    Ref is only supposed to blow the whistle if they believe the player is in danger or injury or is already notably hurt and is unable to get off the ice. Technically, imo, the ref did the right thing. Worst case is a concussion (largely self inflicted by stupidly diving like that towards the feet/puck of another player. More likely its just a cut on the ear and he stayed down to get a whistle and for safety. He didn’t even look to be in a lot of pain and there was no yelling or anything.

  37. Woodguy says:

    “Steve Smith”:
    Honest question: can anybody fathom why Scrivens signed an extension in Edmonton rather than at least testing free agency?Is it just the local boy thing, or does he really like being single-handedly responsible for 100% of the team’s wins?Or was he looking at this summer’s free agent goalie market?

    Please, I require your uninformed speculation!

    Simple.

    NHL GMs need more reputation to give out contracts and there are only 30 starter jobs in the NHL.

    He had also only ever made 550K per year so 2MM is pretty big cake.

  38. VanOil says:

    I would love to know what Perron said to Steen.

    I would love for Yak after the game to say the same thing about Dregger.

    Questioning Yaks play is fine, questioning his commitment is idiotic.

  39. Pouzar says:

    The Great One,

    The Great One,

    They are still pissed we stole Perron……………………..and Pronger :P

  40. icecastles says:

    Ryan: Games like this make me wonder why a team like the Oilers can’t just tap out.

    From your posts, I’m assuming you just make up your mind before the game then spool them out throughout the evening?

    I know some folks have made up their minds and aren’t going to let facts get in the way of their opinions, but considering who they’re playing, I have no complaints about the first two periods.

    There’s very little fear or timidity in their game tonight and given the issues they’ve had, and the size and dominance of the Blues, that’s a pretty big item.

    For those yammering on that the Oilers have quit on the coach, tonight is Exhibit A that that line of reasoning is BS.

  41. Ryan says:

    Woodguy: Simple.

    NHL GMs need more reputation to give out contracts and there are only 30 starter jobs in the NHL.

    He had also only ever made 550K per year so 2MM is pretty big cake.

    Source: halak vs miller.

  42. Woodguy says:

    I like a lot of what I see from the Oilers.

    Playing the system and being in position for the most part.

    Fraser is pretty awful.

    Also,

    A wise man extolled the virtues of Sobatka earlier.

    2pts tonight.

    BOS traded him to STL for a D prospect that still doesn’t play in the NHL.

    Lowe tried to get Armstrong to run the Oilers but hubbub has it that he said no because he wanted final say on the roster and Lowe said no.

    Armstrong declined and Lowe hired Poiseilinni.

    And here we are.

  43. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: Gilligan!

    Skipper!?

  44. striatic says:

    spoiler: It happened right in front of the ref.

    Yeah, but the impact was on the wrong side of the Blues player. The ref takes a second to look over the situation, not really enough time to know how severe the injury is, then remembers his job back there is to keep his eyes on the net.

  45. Pouzar says:

    VanOil:
    I would love to know what Perron said to Steen.

    I would love for Yak after the game to say the same thing about Dregger.

    Questioning Yaks play is fine, questioning his commitment is idiotic.

    What did they say?

    I am watching the St. Louis stream online.

  46. teddyturnbuckle says:

    What is wrong with Nuge? They are trashing him on TSN.

  47. Ryan says:

    icecastles,

    No. I must be watching a different feed. On my feed the Oilers have been hemmed in their zone, can’t break St. Louis cycle, and their only break out that works is off the glass and out. The only reason they’re still in the game is Scrivens.

  48. icecastles says:

    striatic: Should have been blown down, but put yourself in the Ref’s position, seeing a guy on the ice, not knowing why. Tough to make that split second call.

    Yeah, rewatching it, it was much less black and white than my initial reaction suggested.

    I guess my only objection to not whistling the play down was that with Jackman down and so close to the play, he was at risk of greater injury. It was deceptive seeing him stay down when there was such a strong play so close to his own net – figured that must indicate he was seriously injured, but that wasn’t in fact the case after all.

    Imagine the shit storm if Yak had stayed down like that and the Oilers been scored on. I think it might have broken the internet.

  49. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    Woodguy,

    On last nights Flame game Burke was raving about Cammallari’s work ethic in the gym.

    He was drafted at 182 and know at 31 weighs 190.that is a big gain for a guy 5 -9.

    Eberle at draft was listed at 185 he is now listed at 180 and he has lost an inch going from 6-0 to 5-11.

    The point is he can’t be busting at the gymas at best he hasn’t put on muscle masseven if his draft wt was inflated.

    I think he just needs to try as hard along the dzone boards as he does along the ozone boards.

  50. striatic says:

    VanOil: Questioning Yaks play is fine, questioning his commitment is idiotic.

    The commentators on the Blues feed were criticizing Yak pretty strongly too. “Is he the Right Wing for their team, or the Left Wing for ours?” type stuff.

  51. icecastles says:

    Ryan: The only reason they’re still in the game is Scrivens.

    So on your feed, if the Oilers get another goal, Scrivens will have a hat trick then?

    You do know the Blues are #1 in the league right now and one of the most physical (if not THE most physical) team in the NHL. Not exactly a team one would expect Edmonton to have had a glimmer of hope against. And it’s tied at the end of the second.

    Yes, Scrivens has been a big part of why they’re still in it…. as opposed to all those teams who play without a goalie, apparently.

  52. striatic says:

    icecastles: Imagine the shit storm if Yak had stayed down like that and the Oilers been scored on. I think it might have broken the internet.

    I honestly think he would have gotten a pass, considering the blood and the fact it was a hit to the head.

  53. LMHF#1 says:

    Not many things better this year than scoring a goal and making that piece of trash Jackman bleed on the same play.

  54. Pouzar says:

    icecastles: From your posts, I’m assuming you just make up your mind before the game then spool them out throughout the evening?

    I know some folks have made up their minds and aren’t going to let facts get in the way of their opinions, but considering who they’re playing, I have no complaints about the first two periods.

    There’s very little fear or timidity in their game tonight and given the issues they’ve had, and the size and dominance of the Blues, that’s a pretty big item.

    For those yammering on that the Oilers have quit on the coach, tonight is Exhibit A that that line of reasoning is BS.

    Here here…

    and guess what else…if the Oilers somehow haul this one out of their ass they won’t care one iota how they did it.

    Oh and Scrivens is a gem.

  55. VanOil says:

    Pouzar: What did they say?

    I am watching the St. Louis stream online.

    Dregger suggested that Yak does not have the commitment to work on his game.

    Perron made Steen lose his mind and try to kill him.

  56. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy: Lowe tried to get Armstrong to run the Oilers but hubbub has it that he said no because he wanted final say on the roster and Lowe said no.
    Armstrong declined

    Astronauts. One trip to the moon and they think they know everything.

  57. Woodguy says:

    LMHF#1:
    Not many things better this year than scoring a goal and making that piece of trash Jackman bleed on the same play.

    This.

    Fuck him and people who look like him.

  58. delooper says:

    I have to agree with Icecastles. Ryan, your expectations for what it means for the Oilers to not suck are kind of unreasonable. The Oilers are in this game. Some of their lines are totally out-matched, but not the Hall line. And so far that’s been enough in this game.

  59. Ryan says:

    icecastles,

    Hey dude, the fact that I’m still here proves that I’m a homer.

    I’m not a troll, but yeah to my eyes the Oilers have been getting pounded.

    St Louis is a very good hockey team and the score is tied…

  60. Pouzar says:

    VanOil,

    Did Dreger quote his “sources”?

    He really should go back to moderating MacLean and Kypreos on Sportsnet.

  61. Ryan says:

    delooper:
    I have to agree with Icecastles.Ryan, your expectations for what it means for the Oilers to not suck are kind of unreasonable. The Oilers are in this game.Some of their lines are totally out-matched, but not the Hall line.And so far that’s been enough in this game.

    And a Rocky once beat Ivan Drago.

  62. The Great One says:

    Sobotka makes thecaptainandrewference look like a peewee.

  63. Pouzar says:

    Jeezuz H what was Ference trying to prove there

  64. striatic says:

    Some nameless defenceman lost a puck battle.

  65. delooper says:

    Eberle did a lot of standing-around at the blue line there. :(

  66. Woodguy says:

    Ryan:
    icecastles,

    No.I must be watching a different feed.On my feed the Oilers have been hemmed in their zone, can’t break St. Louis cycle, and their only break out that works is off the glass and out.The only reason they’re still in the game is Scrivens.

    While some of that is true, they are not nearly the gong show they usually are in their own end.

    Players sticking to their positions and trusting their line mates to do the same.

    They are not in the same class as STL, not close really, but they are playing well for what they have.

    Problem is that STL has much more.

    I blame Assholilini and KSAW. (Knows Something About Winning)

  67. Lowetide says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    What is wrong with Nuge?They are trashing him on TSN.

    His line -2, and he didn’t cover his man. It’s fair. Nuge is awesome, but 20 and not perfect.

  68. Old School G says:

    To those that are saying Scrivens is the only reason we have turned it around and are winning some games:

    Have you no mercy? Remember Dubnyk?

  69. delooper says:

    The Oilers D have been turning the puck over relatively easily to the Blues forecheckers.

  70. Lowetide says:

    4-2 Blues. Looks like third period in 2nd game of btb. Too bad, some nice things earlier .

  71. theres oil in virginia says:

    Pouzar: Hey Virginia….

    This is what I am talking about.

    That’s some serious logic, huh. Worthy of Dupin himself.

  72. Ryan says:

    Woodguy:

    Lowe tried to get Armstrong to run the Oilers but hubbub has it that he said no because he wanted final say on the roster and Lowe said no.

    Armstrong declined and Lowe hired Poiseilinni.

    And here we are.

    I wish you hadn’t told this to me.

  73. B S says:

    Oh Schultz, puck watching after all the effort I went to defending you.

  74. LMHF#1 says:

    Fraser and Ference now weighing down two pairs of defensemen.

    Worst regular top 6 D ever for this team?

  75. Woodguy says:

    It’s a good thing Fraser is big so guys can’t knock him off the puck and center it.

  76. LMHF#1 says:

    B S:
    Oh Schultz, puck watching after all the effort I went to defending you.

    Not on Schultz. He’s tied to that boat anchor with FRASER on it.

  77. icecastles says:

    striatic: I honestly think he would have gotten a pass, considering the blood and the fact it was a hit to the head.

    Possible, but reason doesn’t play a very strong role for a lot of fans once they’ve made up their minds. And Yakupov is the boogeyman for many of the fair weather fans who jumped ship before Eakins became the scapegoat de rigeur.

  78. striatic says:

    More bad Defencemen.

    I’m sure someone will figure out some way to blame Yakupov for it.

    The problem with this team is so insanely obvious now.

  79. jake70 says:

    Other teams’ shots don’t seem to go wide.

  80. Lucinius says:

    Putting RNH, Eberle and Yak together is a dumb coaching decision, imo. Its like handing a team scoring opportunities — especially if you have Fraser out there with them.

  81. striatic says:

    Lucinius:
    Putting RNH, Eberle and Yak together is a dumb coaching decision, imo. Its like handing a team scoring opportunities — especially if you have Fraser out there with them.

    I wouldn’t hang that goal on the forwards in any way whatsoever.

  82. icecastles says:

    Woodguy: I blame Assholilini and KSAW. (Knows Something About Winning)

    I know something about being a millionaire: I know that I would like to be, but am unlikely to become, a millionaire.

    I think Lowe’s knowledge of winning is akin to my knowledge of wealth.

  83. B S says:

    LMHF#1: Not on Schultz. He’s tied to that boat anchor with FRASER on it.

    Schutlz’ position was fine, but if he looks up ice he sees the pass coming and covers for it. Fraser didn’t win the battle, but Schultz needs to watch for that open man.

  84. Kitchener says:

    Mark Fraser is helping us lock up Ekblad.

  85. jake70 says:

    B S: Schutlz’ position was fine, but if he looks up ice he sees the pass coming and covers for it. Fraser didn’t win the battle, but Schultz needs to watch for that open man.

    It’s just Oiler brain fog.

  86. LMHF#1 says:

    Andrew “I cover no one!” Ference everybody!

  87. striatic says:

    If it weren’t for Yakupov’s lack of commitment, Fraser wouldn’t have had to crosscheck that guy to create the 5 on 3.

    Jeez Yakupov, get it together!

  88. Kitchener says:

    I just got here. How’s Scrivens been? Is a mercy yank coming if St. Louis scores again?

  89. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Nuge is maturing nicely into a 15 goal 45 point player that can’t win a draw. Another wasted 1st overall. He and Yak are the worst 1st overalls in 15 years.

  90. icecastles says:

    jake70:
    Other teams’ shots don’t seem to go wide.

    It’s called observer bias.

    striatic: I wouldn’t hang that goal on the forwards in any way whatsoever.

    And to think you thought someone would find a way to blame Yakupov for it.

  91. striatic says:

    icecastles: And to think you thought someone would find a way to blame Yakupov for it.

    Yakupov is so clearly the Tibor of the Oilers.

  92. Pouzar says:

    Lucinius:
    Putting RNH, Eberle and Yak together is a dumb coaching decision, imo. Its like handing a team scoring opportunities — especially if you have Fraser out there with them.

    Been sayin this for a while. Hate this combo.

  93. Woodguy says:

    LMHF#1:
    Fraser and Ference now weighing down two pairs of defensemen.

    Worst regular top 6 D ever for this team?

    I’ve actually seen Ference pretty good tonight.

    Fraser is a nightmare that can’t end soon enough.

  94. flyfish1168 says:

    Funny listening to the yahoos in tsn saying Yak is the worst +/- in the league. But I bet you Yak is still a better player than any of those yahoos criticizing him. So take that.

  95. "Steve Smith" says:

    icecastles: I know something about being a millionaire: I know that I would like to be, but am unlikely to become, a millionaire.

    I think Lowe’s knowledge of winning is akin to my knowledge of wealth.

    Well, have you ever worked for a millionaire?

  96. spoiler says:

    No call on the trip on Perron off the face-off… No call on the high stick to Hall…

  97. nycoil says:

    The referees are atrocious, but that’s nothing new for the NHL. Gagner looks like he’s checked out mentally already. Too bad, but the Oilers are still too easy to play against, and by that I don’t mean we need more goons. Just more spirit. Something’s missing. Too few bringing heart to the game.

  98. Pouzar says:

    So who wins outta Reaves and Gazdic?

  99. jake70 says:

    spoiler:
    No call on the trip on Perron off the face-off… No call on the high stick to Hall…

    R. Miller had a discussion with ref after 2nd period.

  100. teddyturnbuckle says:

    Might as well give Yak 6 million also. We wouldn’t want him being left out. Good thing we are drafting high this year so we actually have a chance at getting a first line centre.

  101. Bling says:

    Lucinius:
    Putting RNH, Eberle and Yak together is a dumb coaching decision, imo. Its like handing a team scoring opportunities — especially if you have Fraser out there with them.

    Eberle and RNH very, very tentative.

    There’s a few guys for whom the season can’t end soon enough, IMO.

  102. Marcus Oilerius says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Might as well give Yak 6 million also.We wouldn’t want him being left out.Good thing we are drafting high this year so we actually have a chance at getting a first line centre.

    You post the same, negative, attention-baiting things on both ON and here.

  103. striatic says:

    nycoil: Just more spirit. Something’s missing. Too few bringing heart to the game.

    That doesn’t explain the last two wins.

    The Oilers don’t need more spirit or commitment, they need ACTUAL NHL DEFENCE MEN.

  104. flyfish1168 says:

    Bling: Eberle and RNH very, very tentative. There’s a few guys for whom the season can’t end soon enough, IMO.

    Both these players are such light weights. They need at least 20 lbs so they are harder on the puck and can be a more physical presences.

  105. spoiler says:

    We’re getting kicked, but I like the spine we’ve seen from the team all game.

  106. Pouzar says:

    I dream of a Moroz-Yakimov-Khaira line doing really bad things to the NHL.

    Why can’t I have nice things!!!!!!

  107. Cobbler says:

    Perron, hall and gazdic the only guys showing emotion. This team is vanilla. Stand up for yourselves ffs. The blues are an excellent team and the puck pursuit is second to none, but they have been getting away with obstruction calls all night. I wish the oil would just crack some skulls in this situation.

  108. spoiler says:

    How useless is Sam Gagner?

  109. nycoil says:

    striatic,

    Sure. No argument from me on that point. Never said that was the only issue.Was just a comment about how Hall and Perron seem to care this game, but a few other guys seem mentally checked out at this point.

  110. delooper says:

    Has any team ever scored 4 goals in a minute?

  111. cabbiesmacker says:

    spoiler:
    How useless is Sam Gagner?

    Allow me to count the ways. 4.8 million

  112. Cobbler says:

    striatic,

    Yes they need some defence men and a 2c, etc, etc, blah, blah, but this team needs commitment and swagger. This team makes lapierre look like a god. IMO they lack more than just a few key positional players. That is an oversimplification of what ails this team.

  113. G Money says:

    Dropping in for a few thoughts:

    - Consistent pattern against the big teams is the Oilers are able to hold it close for a couple of periods, then get blown out in the third. That could be where the size differential really asserts itself – after a couple of periods of going against guys outweighing you by 20lbs, you’re going to get worn down.

    - Wow, the refs are awful. Long live America!

    - We are late enough in a pointless season that I think you are going to see more and more players “checked out” for a game or two here or there – especially against teams that are bigger and can hack and whack with impunity with nary a call from the refs (except when its way late in the game and completely meaningless). (Someone will fire back about spoiled millionaires. Baloney. It’s human nature. Your salary doesn’t change it).

  114. Cobbler says:

    spoiler,

    I count 3 guys with spine.

  115. Pouzar says:

    spoiler:
    How useless is Sam Gagner?

    he’s no Ryan Jones

  116. spoiler says:

    Cobbler: spoiler, I count 3 guys with spine.

    I count more, but then again I do have all my fingers and toes.
    ;-)

  117. striatic says:

    nycoil,

    Almost every NHL team folds like this when they’ve been tied or close to tied for most of the game. Think they have a shot and then a couple dumb penalties and ridiculous defence later, the other team is up 4 goals. The best teams will fold like a tent.

    It seems ludicrously simple to me. All the talk of heart, commitment and so on misses the point entirely. If this team ever gets some quality defence, I think it will be shocking how “gutsy” and “driven” they will become overnight.

    This isn’t an issue of emotion. The NYI and MIN games should have put that idea to rest. This is an issue of personnel.

  118. Cobbler says:

    Woodguy,

    Why do hate Fraser so much?

  119. Cobbler says:

    spoiler,

    That explains it. Be careful about double counting.;)

  120. Marcus Oilerius says:

    Oilers were being badly outshot throughout the game, not just the third period. I think shots were something like 25-13 after two.

  121. Woodguy says:

    hunter1909: Astronauts. One trip to the moon and they think they know everything.

    Win!

  122. G Money says:

    Breaking Bad for Ekblad update: both Florida and Buffalo lost tonight, so we didn’t really gain any ground on last.

  123. Numenius says:

    I didn’t see the whole game, but I was seeing Klefbom pretty good at the end there.

    Won a really nice puck battle in his own zone and three nice shots on net in the last PP.

  124. Ryan says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Nuge is maturing nicely into a 15 goal 45 point player that can’t win a draw.Another wasted 1st overall.He and Yak are the worst 1st overalls in 15 years.

    Rick Dipietro, MA Fleury, and Erick Johnson say, “hi.”

  125. Bank Shot says:

    Whew. That’s a relief. When the Oilers tied it at 2-2 there I thought they might have a chance to luck out and pass Florida in the standings.

  126. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler:
    We’re getting kicked, but I like the spine we’ve seen from the team all game.

    I was surprised that the game wasn’t a blowout after the 1st. Scrivens helped a lot, but the guys battled.

  127. flyfish1168 says:

    How long before eakins realize Eberle-RNH-Yak does not work well together.

  128. icecastles says:

    This is the most i’ve enjoyed a 6-2 loss in ages. possibly ever. In it for much of the game, never gave up even when they were well out of it and the wheels had come off, and they were on the second of a back to back against the toughest team in the league.

    To anyone who says there was no fire, spine, heart, whatever in this game… I can only suggest that you made up your mind before the game and looked for confirmation of what you expected to see. The Oilers aren’t a great team, no doubt. But this was the most pushback I’ve seen from them in ages. Typically I prefer the kind of pushback that results in outscoring, but this team needed to show they could also be a bit feisty, a bit belligerent. They did that tonight, and I saw guys standing up for each other.

    Tonight I was entertained and with thee poor lil’ fellas, that’s a win in my book.

  129. Ryan says:

    flyfish1168:
    How long before eakins realize Eberle-RNH-Yak does not work well together.

    Pop quiz.

    Which line does work well together with Yakupov?

  130. spoiler says:

    Ryan: Rick Dipietro, MA Fleury, and Erick Johnson say, “hi.”

    Patrick Stefan doesn’t make that list?

  131. G Money says:

    sliderule:
    On last nights Flame game Burke was raving about Cammallari’s work ethic in the gym.

    He was drafted at 182 and know at 31 weighs 190.that is a big gain for a guy 5 -9.

    Eberle at draft was listed at 185 he is now listed at 180 and he has lost an inch going from 6-0 to 5-11.

    The point is he can’t be busting at the gymas at best he hasn’t put on muscle masseven if his draft wt was inflated.

    Interesting point.

    I’ve floated this idea before (nobody believed me but eventually I will change your minds, every single one of you) …

    I remain concerned that Eakins’ focus on VO2Max is exceedingly harmful to this (already too small) team. Training that affects Vo2Max with any significance is always highly cardiovascular and also extended in nature.

    Unfortunately, such kind of training will – unequivocally – cost you speed, strength, and muscle mass. You cannot maximize all those parameters. There is a reason that sprinters, marathon runners, and hockey players have different physiques.

    Leaving aside the size and strength issue, the reason I first thought this might be a concern is my observation that the team speed we once had is no longer as obvious. Even guys like Hall don’t seem to have an extra gear very often.

    Should “inappropriate physical training for hockey” be one of the items we can add to the laundry list of things that compromise the performance of this team?

  132. icecastles says:

    Ryan,

    Everyone must be clamoring to read your blog, Ryan. I imagine it’s filled with diverse and subtle insights.

  133. fifthcartel says:

    That was brutal, and I’m starting to worry about RNH.

  134. Captain Smarmy says:

    I was at the bolts game tonight but Lou didnt play. stammer scored it was poetry and they played hammer time. Lol oilers

  135. spoiler says:

    G Money: Interesting point. I’ve floated this idea before (nobody believed me but eventually I will change your minds, every single one of you) …I remain concerned that Eakins’ focus on VO2Max is exceedingly harmful to this (already too small) team. Training that affects Vo2Max with any significance is always highly cardiovascular and also extended in nature.Unfortunately, such kind of training will – unequivocally – cost you speed, strength, and muscle mass. You cannot maximize all those parameters. There is a reason that sprinters, marathon runners, and hockey players have different physiques.Leaving aside the size and strength issue, the reason I first thought this might be a concern is my observation that the team speed we once had is no longer as obvious. Even guys like Hall don’t seem to have an extra gear very often.Should “inappropriate physical training for hockey” be one of the items we can add to the laundry list of things that compromise the performance of this team?

    Well, you are starting from a premise that we don’t know is true… that Eakins is focused on cardio to the detriment of other forms of training.

  136. WeirsBeard says:

    spoiler:
    How useless is Sam Gagner?

    Was it him floating on the left point area on that PP with a couple minutes left? Absolutely no interest in getting the puck or keeping it in the offensive zone. Wow.

  137. WeirsBeard says:

    spoiler: Patrick Stefan doesn’t make that list?

    He was even a bust on that list!

  138. spoiler says:

    Captain Smarmy: I was at the bolts game tonight but Lou didnt play. stammer scored it was poetry and they played hammer time. Lol oilers

    You are posting here why?

  139. Numenius says:

    icecastles:
    This is the most i’ve enjoyed a 6-2 loss in ages. possibly ever. In it for much of the game, never gave up even when they were well out of it and the wheels had come off, and they were on the second of a back to back against the toughest team in the league.

    To anyone who says there was no fire, spine, heart, whatever in this game… I can only suggest that you made up your mind before the game and looked for confirmation of what you expected to see. The Oilers aren’t a great team, no doubt. But this was the most pushback I’ve seen from them in ages. Typically I prefer the kind of pushback that results in outscoring, but this team needed to show they could also be a bit feisty, a bit belligerent. They did that tonight, and I saw guys standing up for each other.

    Tonight I was entertained and with thee poor lil’ fellas, that’s a win in my book.

    Completely agree. Earlier in the season they would have given up and felt sorry for themselves, but I saw fight right to the end today. The naysayers in this comment section are not opening their eyes.

  140. spoiler says:

    WeirsBeard: Was it him floating on the left point area on that PP with a couple minutes left? Absolutely no interest in getting the puck or keeping it in the offensive zone. Wow.

    And then he coughed it up for the two on one against, and then didn’t hustle to catch his man, who ended up taking the shot. Horrible 15 seconds. Everyone has bad giveaways, but at least try to fix your mistakes.

  141. Lowetide says:

    fifthcartel:
    That was brutal, and I’m starting to worry about RNH.

    Easy answer. Hall’s the best player on the team. Nuge is going to be a very good player, but he can’t carry a line alone, and no disrespect to his linemates but, yeah.

  142. Ryan says:

    icecastles:
    Ryan,

    Everyone must be clamoring to read your blog, Ryan. I imagine it’s filled with diverse and subtle insights.

    I’m not known as someone who argues with others here on a personal level, at least.

    You’ve always seemed like a reasonable poster here, but now I feel like you’re trying to antagonizing me.

    Dude, I’m not going to bite. I don’t hold back on my opinions, but I’m not here to have personal squabbles. If you want to disagree with me about any opinion I’ve shared, that’s fair game, but don’t bother expecting anything else.

  143. spoiler says:

    Numenius: Completely agree. Earlier in the season they would have given up and felt sorry for themselves, but I saw fight right to the end today. The naysayers in this comment section are not opening their eyes.

    Yep. This has been a different team that way lately.

  144. hoser313 says:

    Some good veteran performances overshadowed by the loss: Perron, Ference, Petry, Hendricks, Gordon.

    Klefbom looked relatively good in his 2nd NHL game.

    Liked the pushback. Especially from Hall.

    Not going to harp on negatives, nothing new on that front to discuss.

    I think this is what western conference playoff hockey looks like.

  145. icecastles says:

    G Money: I remain concerned that Eakins’ focus on VO2Max is exceedingly harmful

    This is really interesting. I’ve not heard about Eakin’s focus on VO2Max before, but it makes a lot of sense. It reminds me much of what I’ve learned training for high level mountaineering, where you’re often required to perform at or near maximum capacity for anywhere from 12 to 16 hours continuously but have to simultaneously train for explosive strength and flexibility. It’s a complete trade-off and very frustrating because gains in one area always mean regression in another. It’s an evolving science with a lot of bad ideas, competing theories and misinformation.

    Fitness is one of those things (astronaut/moon) where if a practitioner is extremely fit and conditioned, they seem to perceive themselves as expert when it is in fact a phenomenally complex and nebulous field of expertise.

    Who is the team’s Strength & Conditioning coach now? We used to hear about it all the time when the inimitable Chad Moreau was in the role.

  146. G Money says:

    spoiler: Well, you are starting from a premise that we don’t know is true… that Eakins is focused on cardio to the detriment of other forms of training.

    I find it kind of funny that you would say that. As far as I can tell, not a single person here has any inside information about Eakins, but that hasn’t stopped a non-stop barrage of criticism of what Eakins is doing. That’s not unjustified – we don’t see what he’s doing, but we see the result and we draw our conclusions.

    In this case, you are correct, I don’t know the premise is true.

    I do know that when Eakins joined the team, his talk *was* all about cardiovascular fitness and Vo2max. He took the time to compliment Ference on his team best Vo2. Conversely, there was no talk whatsoever of needing to improve strength, speed, or size (which I would argue were actually much more important to this team than cardiovascular training).

    This emphasis on Vo2 fit right in with Eakins’ personal interests, which are ultra-distance events (cycling in particular as I understand it).

    Unfortunately, the kind of training that makes you an outstanding long distance cyclist or triathlete (and gives you a sky high Vo2max) is terrible, absolutely terrible for hockey (which is very much a sprint/speed/power type of game).

    So I don’t *know* that Eakins’ is doing this.

    I am taking what he said and what I observe of the team and making a logical inference. (ha, I said inFerence)

  147. icecastles says:

    Ryan: You’ve always seemed like a reasonable poster here, but now I feel like you’re trying to antagonizing me.

    Yes Ryan, I am antagonizing you. Because you come on here and troll the blog with bile and one-liners that are never backed up by analysis, reason, or even specific examples.

    It’s not that I disagree with you: there are loads of posters I disagree with on here. In some areas, I am even a minority of one. It’s that I disagree with your baleful and antagonistic tone.

    True, you’re not known as someone who argues on a personal level, but you don’t really argue (I prefer the term ‘debate’) at all: you’re more interested in repeating your own undefended opinions than engaging in the conversation and debate that is the lifeblood of this blog. In short, trolling.

  148. spoiler says:

    G Money: I find it kind of funny that you would say that. As far as I can tell, not a single person here has any inside information about Eakins, but that hasn’t stopped a non-stop barrage of criticism of what Eakins is doing. That’s not unjustified – we don’t see what he’s doing, but we see the result and we draw our conclusions.In this case, you are correct, I don’t know the premise is true.I do know that when Eakins joined the team, his talk *was* all about cardiovascular fitness and Vo2max. He took the time to compliment Ference on his team best Vo2. Conversely, there was no talk whatsoever of needing to improve strength, speed, or size (which I would argue were actually much more important to this team than cardiovascular training). This emphasis on Vo2 fit right in with Eakins’ personal interests, which are ultra-distance events (cycling in particular as I understand it).Unfortunately, the kind of training that makes you an outstanding long distance cyclist or triathlete (and gives you a sky high Vo2max) is terrible, absolutely terrible for hockey (which is very much a sprint/speed/power type of game).So I don’t *know* that Eakins’ is doing this.I am taking what he said and what I observe of the team and making a logical inference. (ha, I said inFerence)

    Circumstantial evidence, Counsellor.

    I’ve been around sports enough–trained enough–that I know your reasoning is valid. But no one of us can know if your premises are true. And I haven’t been any part of that barrage you describe. I believe in questions and you have asked a pertinent and valid question, however we can’t ascribe any answer to that question with any certainty. And you’re going to need some measures… not “looks slower”. Maybe the skills competition can give your hypothesis some evidence?

  149. icecastles says:

    WeirsBeard: spoiler:
    How useless is Sam Gagner?
    Was it him floating on the left point area on that PP with a couple minutes left? Absolutely no interest in getting the puck or keeping it in the offensive zone. Wow.

    This to me is the most baffling aspect of the entire season. We have long known his deficiencies and he’s always been a hot-and-cold kind of guy, but I can’t think of another regression like this in a player other than a couple of instances where substance abuse or serious personal problems was a known issue that ended up derailing promising careers.

    He’s always been known as a highly competitive and motivated guy and like you and many others have pointed out, disinterest seems to be the most apt descriptor of his game this year. It seems to go far beyond injury or confidence. It’s the sort of thing that can be a blip and he recovers from, or that can signal the coming end of an NHL hockey career in any form, skill guy or otherwise.

    I hope he comes back from it, and I kind of hope its’ with the Oilers. I’ve always liked Master Samwise. But I’m baffled by what’s happened to him this year and deeply troubled.

  150. G Money says:

    icecastles: I’ve not heard about Eakin’s focus on VO2Max before,

    You know, I find that really interesting. Both you and Spoiler don’t recall the Vo2 business from the start of the season. I suppose that shouldn’t be a surprise, we’ve been through so much losing, the noise from the start of the season has probably been submerged in an ocean of pain!

    Here’s a couple of tidbits from the start of the season that should explain where my theory comes from:

    From G&M: “Get fit or get out” – http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/oilers-introduce-dallas-eakins-as-new-head-coach/article12459382/

    From ON: http://oilersnation.com/2013/9/13/campservations
    Andrew Ference had the best VO2 max, 67.3, the highest score Dallas Eakins had ever seen. Anton Lander and Nugent-Hopkins were the only other players in the 60s. Ference hadn’t done a VO2 test in years; he said Boston and Pittsburgh don’t do it. (Emphasis is mine)

    A comment about endurance:
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/09/12/veterans-show-youngsters-how-its-done-in-dallas-eakinss-in-skating-drill

  151. icecastles says:

    G Money,

    Fantastic, thank you! I recall hearing about the near-obsessive focus on conditioning and fitness but certainly not in any detail. I think at the time, my thought was basically, “Eakins likes fitness. Good idea.” Perhaps not my most sophisticated analysis.

    Looking at those links, it’s filtering back to me. Going to have a good read tonight.

    Also going to play with my watch and try of finally figure out how it can calculate V02Max.

  152. Woodguy says:

    Cobbler:
    Woodguy,

    Why do hate Fraser so much?

    I don’t hate him.

    I think he he barely good enough to be 2nd pairing in the AHL, let alone take a shift in the NHL.

    The team I cheer for is playing him in the NHL.

    That’s not good.

    I suffered through the uniquely inept pro procurement era of the Stumblinni and KSAW years and I see signing/playing Fraser as not graduating past that.

    If the management of the team I cheer for sees Fraser as a NHLer then the team I cheer for will remain wandering in the dark abyss for my probable lifetime.

    The last time I partied during a Cup win I was 17 and it was glorious.

    I’d like to feel that again while I can still feel.

  153. jp says:

    VanOil: Dregger suggested that Yak does not have the commitment to work on his game.

    Isn’t Yakupov consistently one of the last off the ice at practices? Must be a body language issue…

    VanOil:

    Perron made Steen lose his mind and try to kill him.

    No love lost between Perron and his old team. Wow.

  154. spoiler says:

    G Money: You know, I find that really interesting. Both you and Spoiler don’t recall the Vo2 business from the start of the season.

    Oh no, I recall it. I just don’t think that’s a lot of evidence.

  155. icecastles says:

    On the subject of fitness, training, etc, this guy is my personal hero and athletic role model. For Gord’s sake don’t let Dallas Eakins hear about him though.

  156. G Money says:

    spoiler: Circumstantial evidence, Counsellor.

    Sure.

    Anything we theorize about what ails this team is entirely built on circumstantial evidence.

    I posted a few links from the start of the season that may refresh your memory on the whole “this team will be the fittest in the league” nonsense.

    So I assert the following:
    - Eakins’ talked about fitness and Vo2max as mandatory and necessary
    - This is perfectly in line with Eakins’ own interests
    - It appears that some other very good hockey teams do not worry about Vo2
    - The team appears slower to me this year than last year. e.g. For a “fast” team, we rarely beat teams to the puck. e.g. Hall does not blow by defenders the way I thought he did last year.
    - There is some data suggesting that Eberle appears to be lighter this year than last year

    Ergo my conclusion:
    - Eakins’ stated belief in the value of fitness and a high Vo2max may be hurting this team by making them smaller, weaker, and slower
    - This would certainly be in line with what we observe on the ice

  157. G Money says:

    Earlier I posted the weight differential between St Louis and Edmonton and suggested that we were seeing a middleweight team battling a light heavyweight team. (Recipe for a beatdown in most sports)

    Perhaps an equally fitting analogy (ha, I used Fit) would be to say maybe we are seeing a team of triathletes trying to beat a hockey team.

  158. jp says:

    icecastles:
    This is the most i’ve enjoyed a 6-2 loss in ages. possibly ever. In it for much of the game, never gave up even when they were well out of it and the wheels had come off, and they were on the second of a back to back against the toughest team in the league.

    Unfortunately this is the first game of the back to back.

    That aside, great to hear they battled hard, stuck up for each other, showed some heart and so on (I missed most of the game).

  159. Lowetide says:

    icecastles: This to me is the most baffling aspect of the entire season. We have long known his deficiencies and he’s always been a hot-and-cold kind of guy, but I can’t think of another regression like this in a player other than a couple of instances where substance abuse or serious personal problems was a known issue that ended up derailing promising careers.

    He’s always been known as a highly competitive and motivated guy and like you and many others have pointed out, disinterest seems to be the most apt descriptor of his game this year. It seems to go far beyond injury or confidence. It’s the sort of thing that can be a blip and he recovers from, or that can signal the coming end of an NHL hockey career in any form, skill guy or otherwise.

    I hope he comes back from it, and I kind of hope its’ with the Oilers. I’ve always liked Master Samwise. But I’m baffled by what’s happened to him this year and deeply troubled.

    Really? I think we can identify the day and time when Gagner went south.

  160. G Money says:

    icecastles,

    Maybe it’s my browser (it’s acting all uppity and antsy), but your link doesn’t seem to go anywhere?

  161. fifthcartel says:

    Woodguy,

    I will seriously question my fandom if Fraser is re-signed. Him and Ference looked awful tonight.

  162. cabbiesmacker says:

    icecastles: Yes Ryan, I am antagonizing you. Because you come on here and troll the blog with bile and one-liners that are never backed up by analysis, reason, or even specific examples.

    It’s not that I disagree with you: there are loads of posters I disagree with on here. In some areas, I am even a minority of one. It’s that I disagree with your baleful and antagonistic tone.

    True, you’re not known as someone who argues on a personal level, but you don’t really argue (I prefer the term ‘debate’) at all: you’re more interested in repeating your own undefended opinions than engaging in the conversation and debate that is the lifeblood of this blog. In short, trolling.

    Hey look. It’s Mr self rjustified and pompous ass hockey no mind Robin Brownlee.

  163. G Money says:

    cabbiesmacker: ass hockey

    I don’t like the sound of that.

  164. spoiler says:

    G Money: So I assert the following:
    - Eakins’ talked about fitness and Vo2max as mandatory and necessary

    Where does he talk about VO2 being mandatory and necessary to ongoing training? Do you have a quote?

  165. G Money says:

    Lowetide: Really? I think we can identify the day and time when Gagner went south.

    It’s a game of Clue.

    “I suggest it was Mrs. Peacock, in the Observatory, with the Revolver!”

    “Wrong! It was Mr. Kassian, in the mouth, with a stick!”

  166. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide: Really? I think we can identify the day and time when Gagner went south.

    The day after his rookie and career high points total year ended?

    This is not a great hockey player, on a team that can’t afford the luxury of playing him in the top 6, who doesn’t have enough tools and costs too much to play a third line role. If he isn’t gone prior to next season beginning this management team really doesn’t get it.

  167. icecastles says:

    jp: Unfortunately this is the first game of the back to back.

    Goddamnit.

    Lowetide: Really? I think we can identify the day and time when Gagner went south.

    Sure, we can all do that. But he’s not the first guy to have suffered a serious injury and returned to the game. I think it goes beyond the simple “bouncing back from a broken jaw”. It’s not like we’re watching a guy whose timing is a bit off, or who doesn’t have the same jump or even is a bit more tentative than usual. He’s off the rails compared to where he used to be. His game has evaporated and it’s been close to six months.

    I’ve not been watching hockey nearly as long as some of you so perhaps there are more touchstones for this kind of thing that I’m unaware of, where players have come back from injury and not been themselves for an extended period before rebounding and getting back to their old levels and style. I hope so. I really like Gagner.

  168. WeirsBeard says:

    Lowetide: Really? I think we can identify the day and time when Gagner went south.

    I know I wouldn’t go looking for trouble after having my jaw broken.

    But how long do you give a pro hockey player to get it back? Interest in the game is a necessity for success.

  169. cabbiesmacker says:

    G Money: I don’t like the sound of that.

    No penalties for reaching around a guy and grabbing his stick though.

  170. icecastles says:

    cabbiesmacker: Hey look. It’s Mr self rjustified and pompous ass hockey no mind Robin Brownlee.

    I’m a much better dresser than Robin Brownlee.

  171. G Money says:

    spoiler,

    E.g. the first link.

    “I think there may some big adjustments for the players, with me coming in here,” Dallas Eakins said at his introductory press conference.

    “I want players to be so fit that a forward, if I ask him to play 26 minutes that night, he’s going to play 26 minutes at a high level. If we’re in a Stanley Cup playoff game and we’re in quadruple overtime, he will still be firing on all cylinders.”

    “That is something that I’m passionate about that will be probably a bit of a challenge on the buy-in. But it’s non-negotiable, and there will be buy-in.”

    I certainly read that as mandatory (“non-negotiable”, “there will be buy-in”) and ongoing (“big adjustments for the players … players to be so fit” is very much indicative of an ongoing/future oriented expectation).

    You may choose to interpret that differently, and if so, I would be interested to hear how and why.

    My thought? Guess what, Dallas? Making players so fit that they can still play 26 minutes a night at the same level means that level is inherently lower than for players who train to play 20 minutes. You can’t sprint for 26 minutes. Sprinters are faster than middle-distance runners who are faster than marathoners.

    Metabolically, hockey has far more in common with sprinting than the marathon.

  172. cabbiesmacker says:

    icecastles: I’m a much better dresser than Robin Brownlee.

    My border collie is a better dresser than Brownlee man. Better hairstyle too.

  173. G Money says:

    cabbiesmacker: No penalties for reaching around a guy and grabbing his stick though.

    Yup. I’d rather get the puck in the slot, personally!

  174. icecastles says:

    G Money:
    icecastles,

    Maybe it’s my browser (it’s acting all uppity and antsy), but your link doesn’t seem to go anywhere?

    My bad. Here we go.

    Edit: Buggered it up the same way twice. It works now, I swear.

  175. jp says:

    teddyturnbuckle:
    Nuge is maturing nicely into a 15 goal 45 point player that can’t win a draw.Another wasted 1st overall.He and Yak are the worst 1st overalls in 15 years.

    Aside from the mediocre 1st overalls already noted, Nuge has 15 goals and 44 points right now, with 20% of the season remaining. He’s on pace for 81-19-36-55, and outscored your totals in his rookie season too. His career per 82 game averages are 82-18-41-59. And he’s 20. The kid’s OK.

  176. cabbiesmacker says:

    G Money:
    spoiler,

    E.g. the first link.

    “I think there may some big adjustments for the players, with me coming in here,” Dallas Eakins said at his introductory press conference.

    “I want players to be so fit that a forward, if I ask him to play 26 minutes that night, he’s going to play 26 minutes at a high level. If we’re in a Stanley Cup playoff game and we’re in quadruple overtime, he will still be firing on all cylinders.”

    “That is something that I’m passionate about that will be probably a bit of a challenge on the buy-in. But it’s non-negotiable, and there will be buy-in.”

    I certainly read that as mandatory (“non-negotiable”, “there will be buy-in”) and ongoing (“big adjustments for the players … players to be so fit” is very much indicative of an ongoing/future oriented expectation).

    You may choose to interpret that differently, and if so, I would be interested to hear how and why.

    My thought?Guess what, Dallas?Making a player so fit that they can still play 26 minutes a night at the same level means that level is inherently lower than a player who trains to play 20 minutes.You can’t sprint for 26 minutes.

    Didn’t Eakins drone on about how the guys would finish their checks, battle for possession, and be a lot tougher team to play against too though? That was quite evident when watching beasts like Sobotka, Bouwmeester, and Ott take liberties tonight.

    When Ott was with the Stars they used to have a hitting competition every game against the Oilers. $10 in the pail and highest hit total took it all. Nothings changed.

    Bad teams watch their best players get slammed on a nightly basis and do zip about it.

  177. cabbiesmacker says:

    G Money: Yup.I’d rather get the puck in the slot, personally!

    More than up high I’ll assume

  178. spoiler says:

    G Money: spoiler, E.g. the first link.“I think there may some big adjustments for the players, with me coming in here,” Dallas Eakins said at his introductory press conference.“I want players to be so fit that a forward, if I ask him to play 26 minutes that night, he’s going to play 26 minutes at a high level. If we’re in a Stanley Cup playoff game and we’re in quadruple overtime, he will still be firing on all cylinders.”“That is something that I’m passionate about that will be probably a bit of a challenge on the buy-in. But it’s non-negotiable, and there will be buy-in.”I certainly read that as mandatory (“non-negotiable”, “there will be buy-in”) and ongoing (“big adjustments for the players … players to be so fit” is very much indicative of an ongoing/future oriented expectation).You may choose to interpret that differently, and if so, I would be interested to hear how and why.My thought? Guess what, Dallas? Making players so fit that they can still play 26 minutes a night at the same level means that level is inherently lower than for players who train to play 20 minutes. You can’t sprint for 26 minutes. Sprinters are faster than middle-distance runners who are faster than marathoners.Metabolically, hockey has far more in common with sprinting than the marathon.

    I don’t think you’re reading my posts (you took my disagreement as a lack of memory? How? Why?). Maybe this time I will get lucky…

    No one is denying that fitness is a focus for Eakins, or ANY COACH in training camp. Fitness comes in all different forms and types, as you yourself pointed out earlier. Where ia your evidence that VO2 specifically is the focus of the fitness regimen throughout this season? You have provided nothing thus far.

  179. Lowetide says:

    WeirsBeard: I know I wouldn’t go looking for trouble after having my jaw broken.

    But how long do you give a pro hockey player to get it back? Interest in the game is a necessity for success.

    I’d say this year is a writeoff. I haven’t responded to the 10,000 anti-Gagner posts because they’re all completely understandable. However, Gagner was an NHL player before idiot wind and may be again. This season? Writeoff.

  180. G Money says:

    spoiler: No one is denying that fitness is a focus for Eakins, or ANY COACH in training camp. Fitness comes in all different forms and types, as you yourself pointed out earlier. Where ia your evidence that VO2 specifically is the focus of the fitness regimen throughout this season? You have provided nothing to this point.

    Perhaps we’re failing to read each others posts.

    As I said repeatedly – I am combining what I heard from Eakins (which suggests an overemphasis on Vo2 relative to other teams, for the entire season and not just training camp) together with what I see on the ice and floating a hypothesis to explain it.

    I do not have have evidence and never will.

    If Eakins departs and the new coach talks about the need for speed and strength and the Oiler players suddenly look faster and stronger on the ice, that will probably be the most damning evidence we will get.

  181. icecastles says:

    Lowetide,

    That’s rough. Would you say that playing him through it was the minutes they have is a necessary step to getting him back to form, or is more a result of the lack of alternative options at C?

  182. WeirsBeard says:

    Lowetide: I’d say this year is a writeoff. I haven’t responded to the 10,000 anti-Gagner posts because they’re all completely understandable. However, Gagner was an NHL player before idiot wind and may be again. This season? Writeoff.

    I see poise in that answer LT.

  183. gvblackhawk says:

    spoiler: I don’t think you’re reading my posts (you took my disagreement as a lack of memory?How? Why?). Maybe this time I will get lucky…

    No one is denying that fitness is a focus for Eakins, or ANY COACH in training camp.Fitness comes in all different forms and types, as you yourself pointed out earlier.Where ia your evidence that VO2 specifically is the focus of the fitness regimen throughout this season?You have provided nothing thus far.

    Eakins is obsessed about VO2 max so he likely has the players hitting the weight room? That doesn’t really sound right. Odds are that he puts heavy emphasis on cardiovascular training.

  184. Lowetide says:

    icecastles:
    Lowetide,

    That’s rough. Would you say that playing him through it was the minutes they have is a necessary step to getting him back to form, or is more a result of the lack of alternative options at C?

    It doesn’t matter, really. The Oilers did have an enormous opportunity to ride Arcobello for longer, but the moment Gagner was able to stand up they sent him out there. For some reason, Gagner gets the blame for that but lordy any fool could see he was fighting it.

    The Edmonton Oilers don’t like Arcobello as an NHL player.

  185. WeirsBeard says:

    Lowetide: It doesn’t matter, really. The Oilers did have an enormous opportunity to ride Arcobello for longer, but the moment Gagner was able to stand up they sent him out there. For some reason, Gagner gets the blame for that but lordy any fool could see he was fighting it.

    The Edmonton Oilers don’t like Arcobello as an NHL player.

    Reminds me of the Ray Whitney jettison way back when. Why not have too many guys who can play?

  186. BONVIE says:

    Woodguy: I don’t hate him.

    I think he he barely good enough to be 2nd pairing in the AHL, let alone take a shift in the NHL.

    The team I cheer for is playing him in the NHL.

    That’s not good.

    I suffered through the uniquely inept pro procurement era of the Stumblinni and KSAW years and I see signing/playing Fraser as not graduating past that.

    If the management of the team I cheer for sees Fraser as a NHLer then the team I cheer for will remain wandering in the dark abyss for my probable lifetime.

    The last time I partied during a Cup win I was 17 and it was glorious.

    I’d like to feel that again while I can still feel.

    You would think that something besides the shortcomings of the 5th and 6th defenseman would jump out at you when watching this game and the last few before it with the recent lineup changes.

    Perhaps the Eberle-Nugent-Yakapov line? Minus 4 for the two wingers and they were actually starting to lose some of their ice to the 4th line as the game went on as even they seem to be more equipped to play against NHL players then our so called 2nd line.

    Why is this line together? Perhaps so the weakness might be made apparent to everyone including the GM and guys like yourself on this forum that are fixated with the Jones’ of the team. Maybe it will result in having changes brought forward for next year, having players playing the wing for the Oilers that have realized they are playing in NHL and not in Sarnia anymore.

    We have a very good and capable first line right now with Hall, Perron, and Gagner. Substitiute Nugent in there at centre with little to know change maybe even a bit of improvement.

    When the Oilers drafted Yakapov they knew we had too many small wingers already but drafted him anyway as they believed he was the best player there. Two years have now approached and we still have the same makeup in our lineup. Leave these guys together all year maybe give the Nuge a break after 10 games and put Gagner in his spot. In doing this the weak link has to become obvious to all of the management owners poster on this site that it is too much of the same. Small wingers who don’t come back to start the break out and can’t make a play on the wall.

    Hmm i see you are relatively the same age as myself Woodguy by the comment of your age during their last cup. I never hated losing during the Arnott, Weight, Maltby, Marchant, Grier and Weight years. Those teams win or lose gave everything and played hard. I went to the games and enjoyed them and could appreciate that they were young and made mistakes that resulted in losing a few games. Thats what I like about the Hall line those guys have it together Hall still makes some mistakes and turns the puck over, but he works his ass off every shift and works to get it back and battles like he wants to win ditto with Perron.

    Eberle without Hall is lost this is obvious, but the problem is two guys in the top 6 that play the way Hall and Perron do are not enough. Nugent will come around eventually with a few years of seasoning there is no doubt in my mind about that and playing with these two wingers will only make him stronger.

    Oilers get the trade done using Yakapov as the main piece in getting a top pair defenseman. Get it done before the season starts, because this asset is depreciating, and depreciating fast. I am pretty sure the Russians and their organization have already drawn their conclusion about this player. It will be interesting to see if they ask for his services in the World Championships.

  187. Clay says:

    Very late to the party here – just watched the game on pvr. Only one thing really to say about that game: It boggles my mind that Mark Fraser can hold down an NHL job. He looks like he’s actively helping the other team.

    The fact that he is on this team renews my distrust of Oilers’ management and pro scouting. How the f**k can they not see how inept this person is at hockey? He can’t make a pass without looking down at the puck first to make sure it’s on his stick! That’s akin to a basketball player who can’t dribble without looking at the ball.

    I just can’t believe he has 172 career NHL games. It’s an insult to the sport.

  188. jp says:

    I missed it on my first read-through (due to a crappy “smart” phone), but very impressive to see both Simpson and Laleggia as 1st team all-stars. I’d assumed Laleggia was having an off year since his scoring was down a bit.

    Simpson is also 1 of 4 finalists for NCHC player of the year (http://www.nchchockey.com/news_article/show/362925?referrer_id=878553-news). Pretty sure the all-star nod and POY nomination are more significant than being 1 of 67 Hobey Baker “finalists” (though that’s also nice). Get the man signed and send him to OKC!! (once his college season actually finishes).

  189. spoiler says:

    G Money: Perhaps we’re failing to read each others posts.As I said repeatedly – I am combining what I heard from Eakins (which suggests an overemphasis on Vo2 relative to other teams, for the entire season and not just training camp) together with what I see on the ice and floating a hypothesis to explain it.I do not have have evidence and never will.If Eakins departs and the new coach talks about the need for speed and strength and the Oiler players suddenly look faster and stronger on the ice, that will probably be the most damning evidence we will get.

    Fair enough. I usually think of assertions requiring more than what we have though. I’ve tried looking up the 2013 skills results but can’t find them on the damn net, to compare times to this year to see if there has been a slowness. I’m a little leery though, since two of our best skaters have had injuries to their legs this season.

    The rumour, started by none other than Ladi Smid, is that our practices aren’t exactly strenuous. Since the early days of the season, Eakins hasn’t really pushed the 26 minute game issue for the forwards. An organization usually employs experts in strength and conditioning, and there are lots of people who know and write and talk about the trade-offs between training styles. The business is going to know the business.

    Just seems a bit of a stretch with some flimsy backing. Could very well be true, and I’d like to find those times to help build a case one way or the other, but there’s not enough there for me to buy anything near assert. Speculate, yessirree. But I’d need more to take it beyond that.

  190. geeker99 says:

    Lowetide: I’d say this year is a writeoff. I haven’t responded to the 10,000 anti-Gagner posts because they’re all completely understandable. However, Gagner was an NHL player before idiot wind and may be again. This season? Writeoff.

    i agree with this, there is a player on the nucks that hasn’t scored in 20 odd games coming off a broken jaw. couldn’t imagine playing with doubt.

  191. icecastles says:

    spoiler: The rumour, started by none other than Ladi Smid, is that our practices aren’t exactly strenuous

    In fairness, Smid commented that the practice was faster and harder on his new team. There are a lot of qualifiers on that comment, such as that it was with a new team so the practices were unfamiliar (Perron and Eakins both spoke to this quite well). I think the implication that it was an indictment of the Oilers practices or a comment that they “aren’t exactly strenuous” was more a matter of fans taking the tidbit and running with it, and spinning a narrative around it.

  192. book¡je says:

    Lowetide: I’d say this year is a writeoff. I haven’t responded to the 10,000 anti-Gagner posts because they’re all completely understandable. However, Gagner was an NHL player before idiot wind and may be again. This season? Writeoff.

    Now the talk (starting with Dreger) is that the Oilers are ready to give up on Yakupov but that he has no value. The season is a write off, but I worry this version of the team might be as well. The only player doing better this year than last year is Hemsky and he has been invisible out there as of late.

    Sigh.

  193. icecastles says:

    book¡je: he has been invisible out there as of late.

    Hemsky hater.

    he hasn’t had one giveaway since the trade deadline, and hasn’t been on the ice for a single goal against. His offense isn’t there, but clearly he’s now the best defensive forward on the team.

  194. G Money says:

    Lowetide: The Edmonton Oilers don’t like Arcobello as an NHL player.

    Yes, this seems clear, despite his having clearly demonstrated that he is much more than an AHL player and can definitely play at an NHL level.

    And those same Edmonton Oilers appear to love Fraser, who is clearly not an NHL player.

    So… if – and I recognize that it is a big IF, but – if this off-season involves jettisoning Arco and re-signing Fraser … what do we conclude about MacT and the Edmonton Oilers?

  195. jp says:

    BONVIE,

    Among many, many issues with your post, his name is Yakupov.

  196. Lowetide says:

    book¡je: Now the talk (starting with Dreger) is that the Oilers are ready to give up on Yakupov but that he has no value.The season is a write off, but I worry this version of the team might be as well.The only player doing better this year than last year is Hemsky and he has been invisible out there as of late.

    Sigh.

    Dreger must have had lunch with Nonis.

  197. BONVIE says:

    jp:
    BONVIE,

    Among many, many issues with your post, his name is Yakupov.

    Thanks for pointing that spelling out JP, very subtle!!! For my next post I will copy and paste the correct spelling from this post and then just use “the accused” from that point forward.

  198. fuzzy muppet says:

    Yup let’s blame yakupov. Why doesn’t anyone talk about RNH regressing to the point that he looks like he might not be a number 2 center?

    They seriously need to fire Eakins. Every single important core player has regressed on his watch. It’s inexcusable

  199. BONVIE says:

    RNH would look great between Hall and Perron I am sure.

    I think that getting rid of Renney was a huge mistake and it went downhill from there. I never understood why that move was made.

    Not that I am confident in Eakins myself but I wonder if the instability of firing and replacing the coach would make more of negative influence. I think its a bit of mess myself, but the makeup of the top 6 is a definite issue, add to that no top pair defender and that is a big problem, for any coach coming in.

  200. leadfarmer says:

    icecastles,

    Not only was he the first of the ice in practice, but now he doesn’t even show up to practice.

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