SIXES AND SEVENS AND NINES

The Edmonton Oilers were 12-24-3 on December 27. Since then, the club is 12-12-6 in 30 games. Most of that is goaltending and is not sustainable. However, it’s still a lot more fun watching a team that wins once or twice a week than the alternative.

Oscar_Klefbom_062812_(1_of_1)_thumb

Oscar Klefbom is making an impression. Dallas Eakins had some nice things to say about him after the game yesterday. Article is here.

  • Eakins: “He’s been night-and-day for me from those first 30 minutes he played for us. We still have to protect him a little bit — that’s the fair thing to do with a man of his experience — but so far, so good. He’s making progress.”

Klefbom follows Martin Marincin to the show, and the pair of defensemen may end up being a major story this summer. The Oilers plan to upgrade the blueline, and one of them may end up being sent away (in a package) for a more experienced hand. I’d prefer they stay—the Oilers don’t know which one is the better player—but you have to give in order to get and both will have high value on the open market.

There is one idea that comes to mind in regard to these two defensemen. Why not keep everyone away for one season? Send Nurse back to junior, Ekblad too, don’t cloud the issue. Run something like this:

  • Marincin-Petry
  • Mark Fayne-Schultz
  • Klefbom-Ference

for 2014-15, and then bring in Ekblad and Nurse to the conversation. At that point the club may have to buy out Ference or trade one of their useful blue, but that’s a helluva lot better problem than what we’re seeing now. Right? I like Klefbom, he might end up being a top 4D in time, and it’s important to break him in as smoothly as possible. Counting on another Marincin-style transition is folly.

lander common

Same article, less glowing about Lander (again from the coach).

  •  Eakins: “If (Lander) is going to play here, he has to be able to play centre, he has to play left-wing and he has to play right-wing. He has to be able to step in on the power play and kill penalties. He has to be able to wear a bunch of different hats.”

It’s a good quote because we see the role Edmonton sees Lander possibly filling. The Swede’s issues (as I see them) are lack of offensive ability and foot speed. Those are pretty big items for an NHL team, and despite his strong showing in Oklahoma City this season it’s not certain he’ll make it. Oiler fans should be prepared for a Hartikainen-esque summer that sees AL sign in Europe and then get dealt—unless he shows enough to earn a one-way deal.

Lander is exposed in that MacT and Eakins have no connection to the player. He was here and part of the losing when both arrived. I’d like to say that made no difference, but in hockey history that seems to be a major deal. I expect the Russian Yakimov has a better chance of playing on next year’s team.

These auditions are important because the Oilers have their jacks and kings, but are in real need of role and support players. Imagine a world in which Klefbom is a natural and complete fit for Justin Schultz. What does that do for the depth chart? A lot. Also, picture a world in which Anton Lander occupies 4line C but can also move up to 3line as needed, penalty kill (giving Nuge a rest) and sit in the pressbox when required. That’s a valuable role player.

These are lesser items than drafting Nail Yakupov, but the Oilers have been out of balance since MacT’s coaching days, and badly need to have quality, depth and versatility on the roster. Sweet Jesus, they’re playing our song!

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

Nature Valley games

Wear green today! On the Lowdown at 10 (TSN 1260) we’ll hit the ground running for the week. Scheduled to appear:

  • Scott Burnside: Who comes out of the west? Does Pittsburgh have any forward depth?
  • Travis Yost: WHAT was that? The Sens shot themselves in the foot this weekend.
  • Bruce McCurdy: What do the Oilers do with these young blue? Plus 2014 draft.
  • Andrew Bucholtz: CFL regional combine this week in Edmonton, we’ll talk football and the CFL draft.

10-1260 via text or @Lowetide_ on twitter.

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178 Responses to "SIXES AND SEVENS AND NINES"

  1. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Haha 69! who’s wearing that bib?

  2. Woodguy says:

    Marincin-Petry
    Mark Fayne-Schultz
    Klefbom-Ference

    I aim higher than Fayne and go:

    FA (Niskinin?)- Petry
    Marincin-Shultz
    Klefbom-Ference
    Not Fraser

    Even though he looks great, slotting Marincin, a rookie, to play toughs is very Oilers.

    I’d like to see Markov here on a 2 year overpay.

    I disagree with Tyler that Subban is keeping him afloat.

    If Markov has gas in the tank, I’d like to see him here, but he probably only comes on an overpay.

    Would be great for Shultz to learn from him too.

    It seems like Smith isn’t teaching him much. Not seeing a pile of progress in his game without the puck.

  3. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “There is one idea that comes to mind in regard to these two defensemen. Why not keep everyone away for one season? Send Nurse back to junior, Ekblad too, don’t cloud the issue. Run something like this:
    Marincin-Petry
    Mark Fayne-Schultz
    Klefbom-Ference
    for 2014-15, and then bring in Ekblad and Nurse to the conversation. At that point the club may have to buy out Ference or trade one of their useful blue, but that’s a helluva lot better problem than what we’re seeing now. Right? I like Klefbom, he might end up being a top 4D in time, and it’s important to break him in as smoothly as possible. Counting on another Marincin-style transition is folly.”

    ———–
    I think this is obvious. Though I’d go further.

    Fayne is a lovely addition, but you need one more to keep Klefbom fighting for the 7th spot, not granted a 6th spot.

    If you can’t get someone to ride high, you re-sign Belov or equivalent for the bottom of the pairings.

    —————
    “Same article, less glowing about Lander (again from the coach).”

    you have to watch the whole tape to get the whole story on Eakins on Lander:

    http://video.oilers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=578206&catid=4

    he’s far more glowing that the quote Ireland pulls (not that I have qualms with it, certainly not on St. Pat’s Day).

  4. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: I aim higher than Fayne and go:
    FA (Niskinin?)- Petry

    I’m not convinced Niskanen is a huge upgrade on Fayne.

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=D&f5=PIT&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=D&f5=N.J&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

    I like both!

    I like Fayne more because I’m hoping he’s flying under the radar a little bit here.

  5. mumbai max says:

    LT, wondering about this statement, in your opening line.

    “Most of that is goaltending and is not sustainable”

    Most good clubs have good goaltending, that is a big part of what makes them good clubs. It IS
    sustainable, you just need good goalies. It seems we do. So, we can stop separating the goaltending
    and the team into two separate narratives. We have good goaltending. It is sustainable. They are part of the team. Basta.

    So, now the narrative goes something like this.

    The Oilers have consistently good goaltending.

    The Oilers have a mess at D, however the situation has changed dramatically with the (potential) emergence of Marincin and Klefbom, a few more youngsters bubbling under, and the possible (unlikely) drafting of Ekblad. D needs fixing in the short term, but looks good in the long term.

    The Oilers have high end talent at top 6 F. There are three questions for the Offence. Are the high end talent willing and able to play hard and smart every day? Does size matter? Can we find real NHL players from without or within to play bottom 6 F?

    The Oilers have an enigma at the Head Coach position. Will he survive?

    The summer work seems to be becoming MORE clear, and LESS daunting.

  6. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    The emergence of Marincin and the introduction of Klefbom makes me think that adding only one legit first pairing defenseman is necessary for MacT. I think MacT wants Klefbom acclimatized to start next year. I also think Nurse – whether he has a strong camp or not – is headed to OKC. They are going to marinate him in the minors for at least a half season before exposing him.

    I think Lander is here to stay and will work into the line-up next year. The investment has been fully made in his development in the minors. Don’t yank the chute now. Let him have 2 years in NHL to emerge and lead (in character). He won’t be making bone headed errors given his schooling in the minors and his hockey IQ – so low risk.

    Remember when we were 10 games into the season and everyone was saying we’d give Eakins 30 games before passing some judgment on him. Given the much extended sample size, has your opinion on his appropriateness in the role sharpened?

  7. mumbai max says:

    Well Oiled and Enthusiastic:
    The emergence of Marincin and the introduction of Klefbom makes me think that adding only one legit first pairing defenseman is necessary for MacT. I think MacT wants Klefbom acclimatized to start next year. I also think Nurse – whether he has a strong camp or not – is headed to OKC. They are going to marinate him in the minors for at least a half season before exposing him.

    I think Lander is here to stay and will work into the line-up next year. The investment has been fully made in his development in the minors. Don’t yank the chute now. Let him have 2 years in NHL to emerge and lead (in character). He won’t be making bone headed errors given his schooling in the minors and his hockey IQ – so low risk.

    Remember when we were 10 games into the season and everyone was saying we’d give Eakins 30 games before passing some judgment on him. Given the much extended sample size, has your opinion on his appropriateness in the role sharpened?

    Call me crazy, but isn’t it either NHL or CHL for Nurse next year due to his age?

  8. nelson88 says:

    Reposted from the last thread. LT always does that to me which is likey karma for thread jacking.

    Marincin has been a breath of fresh air. I don’t get to watch all the games due to time differences but the patience and lack of panic in his game are a very pleasant surprise given his age. He will never be Chara ( never be that big) but a high end #2 D in the next 3-5 years is certainly not out of the question.

    Klefbom needs a lot more seasoning. To be expected given his recent arrival in N.A. and injury history but I can’t help having the nagging feeling the “hockey sense” portion is going to be painfully slow to develop. The D prospect I would try and “sell high”.

    Keep Lander through Wednesday’s game and then send him down to OKC for the remainder of the season. Playoff experience for the prospects should be a higher priority for the organization than this “audtion”. Admittedly I am a Lander fan and think a 22 year old pt/game AHL player who has improved every year since he was drafted (minus the Oiler experience) and has worn a C or an A on every team he has played on is a very low risk, one way signing. Unfair to the player? He is a stand up guy and the captain of the Barons. His salary hit will be about $80K. Add $75K/year to the reasonable 3 year one way contract they should be placing in his blazer pocket on the way to the airport. Problem solved.

    Love Yak but the kid is absolutely lost and a quagmire for his linemates. That is on the coaching staff.

  9. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    mumbai max: Call me crazy, but isn’t it either NHL or CHL for Nurse next year due to his age?

    This is right. Nurse can’t play in the AHL next year.

  10. Ducey says:

    I just don’t understand.

    The “Detroit Model” is espoused as the goal, yet next year the Oilers are supposed to plan on starting a guy who played 11 games last year in Sweden, 45 AHL games, and what might be 20 NHL games?

    Plan to send him to OKC for most of next year!

    The Marincin model worked just fine.

    If you need to rush someone it would be Nurse. Or if you really can’t find anyone, use Fedun.

    In no particular order:

    Marincin – Petry
    Schultz – Ference
    UFA – UFA
    Fraser (or someone to sit in the press box most nights)

    OKC:
    Klefbom – Davidson
    Musil – Simpson
    Hunt – Gernat
    Larsen

  11. Botts182 says:

    LT,

    •Marincin-Petry
    •Mark Fayne-Schultz
    •Klefbom-Ference

    This D core would get killed yet again next year. I am all for wanting to keep our young prospects but there has to be better improvement then this next year or we are looking at yet another lottery pick.

  12. mumbai max says:

    Ducey:
    I just don’t understand.

    The “Detroit Model” is espoused as the goal, yet next year the Oilers are supposed to plan on starting a guy who played 11 games last year in Sweden, 45 AHL games, and what might be 20 NHL games?

    Plan to send him to OKC for most of next year!

    The Marincin model worked just fine.

    If you need to rush someone it would be Nurse.Or if you really can’t find anyone, use Fedun.

    In no particular order:

    Marincin – Petry
    Schultz – Ference
    UFA – UFA
    Fraser (or someone to sit in the press box most nights)

    OKC:
    Klefbom – Davidson
    Musil – Simpson
    Hunt – Gernat
    Larsen

    Well, I agree if UFA and UFA are the right players. There are slim pickings in that pool. In a perfect world you are right, but given that UFA’s are not queueing up to come, there might be a plan B that involves one of Klefbom or Nurse. (or the increasingly unlikely Ekblad)

  13. Ducey says:

    mumbai max: Well, I agree if UFA and UFA are the right players. There are slim pickings in that pool. In a perfect world you are right, but given that UFA’s are not queueing up to come, there might be a plan B that involves one of Klefbom or Nurse. (or the increasingly unlikely Ekblad)

    Thats true, but they just need to squeeze about 60 games out of one UFA (and trade him at the deadline) and then bring up Klefbom.

    They could also make a trade or two. There have to be a few guys out there that still have good tread left who are just too expensive for their team. The rumoured lower than expected salary cap could result in buyouts, salary dumps, etc.

    Bottom line is that having Klefbom in the opeing day lineup next year has to be the last option, not the first.

  14. Henry says:

    Uh oh. After finally trading Hemsky away, Matty is going after Yak. Pretty soon only one right winger!

  15. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’m not convinced Niskanen is a huge upgrade on Fayne.

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=D&f5=PIT&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=D&f5=N.J&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

    I like both!

    I like Fayne more because I’m hoping he’s flying under the radar a little bit here.

    I forgot to change my original post and went with Markov in the body of the post.

  16. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Henry:
    Uh oh.After finally trading Hemsky away, Matty is going after Yak.Pretty soon only one right winger!

    It’s like Vancouver and goalies!!

    “We have more than one good one? Get rid of them all!!”

    makes perfect sense.

  17. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: I forgot to change my original post and went with Markov in the body of the post.

    There’s a good bet too.

    If MacT finished the UFA season on Blue by adding

    Markov, one of Fayne, Niskanen, Nikitin, Gilbert, hainsey and one of Belov, Greene, Ranger

    That looks pretty good. 3 adds. one for each pairing.

  18. Woodguy says:

    As an aside.

    I think Eakins has marching orders not to put Hall with RNH or Eberle for the rest of the season so MacT can get a feel for what they bring away from Hall.

    If he’s doing that there may be a large roster earthquake this summer.

  19. The Great One says:

    Friedman’s 30

    “23. About any potential Nail Yakupov trade: What does Oilers owner Daryl Katz think? It’s believed he was the driving force behind the decision to draft Yakupov ahead of Ryan Murray. When things looked bleak earlier this season, there were rumours Katz wasn’t thrilled about trading him.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/hockey/opinion/2014/03/30-thoughts-changing-odds-in-nhl-draft-lottery.html

  20. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    As an aside.

    I think Eakins has marching orders not to put Hall with RNH or Eberle for the rest of the season so MacT can get a feel for what they bring away from Hall.

    If he’s doing that there may be a large roster earthquake this summer.

    Excellent point.

  21. thejonrmcleod says:

    I’ll be honest, I had to Google Mark Fayne. At first I thought he might be a generic name for a UFA addition.

  22. thejonrmcleod says:

    Any rumors about the future of Markov? Would he sign a 2-year contract for high dollars to play in Edmonton? Probably not. But that would be my Plan A.

    Markov-Schultz
    Marincin-Petry
    Klefbom-Ference

    And then the conclusion to my dream: in 2 years (or less) Nurse and Ekblad replace Markov and Ference.

  23. G Money says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    Anonymity is a good sign for a defenseman who plays 18+ mins a night.

  24. mumbai max says:

    Below is the list of the top ten UFA D. Almost all over 20 mins. Mostly old.
    Many perfect for the ‘calm the waters and hold a place’ role while we simmer
    the pot of D prospects.

    It seems it should be possible to get one or two of these to come on a 2 year overpay.
    Even if you have to give the third year, which will be a factor for some, you can always
    buy them out or bury them later. Markov and Ference as first D pairing in OKC in three years!

    Niskanen, Matt » D 27 PIT 67 10 29 39 45 31 21.06
    Markov, Andrei » D 35 MTL 69 6 33 39 28 7 25.13
    Zidlicky, Marek » D 37 NJD 67 10 26 36 54 -7 21.51
    Gilbert, Tom » D 31 FLA 68 3 25 28 18 -2 21.28
    Boyle, Dan » D 37 SJS 62 8 19 27 24 -3 21.20
    Timonen, Kimmo » D 38 PHI 64 4 23 27 32 6 20.70
    MacDonald, Andrew » 27 PHI 68 4 21 25 36 -20 24.99
    Benoit, Andre » D 30 COL 66 6 18 24 16 0 20.20
    Meszaros, Andrej » D 28 BOS 41 6 12 18 36 4 17.41
    Morris, Derek » D 35 PHX 53 5 12 17 39 4 19.62

    the second ten, much like the first, with a few less minutes (in case required)

    Nikitin, Nikita » 27 CLB 59 2 13 15 18 11 17.35
    Hainsey, Ron » 32 CAR 68 4 10 14 39 -8 21.22
    Salo, Sami » 39 TBL 58 3 10 13 14 7 18.28
    Orpik, Brooks » D 33 PIT 59 2 11 13 46 0 21.20
    Diaz, Raphael » D 28 NYR 52 1 12 13 12 -7 18.56
    Ranger, Paul » D 29 TOR 46 4 8 12 30 -1 17.84
    Hannan, Scott » D 35 SJS 48 3 9 12 53 6 18.19
    Engelland, Deryk » D 31 PIT 49 6 5 11 50 -4 12.84
    Butler, Chris » D 27 CGY 68 2 9 11 37 -22 19.89
    Quincey, Kyle » D 28 DET 67 4 6 10 74 -6 20.52

  25. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    G Money:
    thejonrmcleod,

    Anonymity is a good sign for a defenseman who plays 18+ mins a night.

    Let’s just hope it stays that way.

    Anonymous Andrew MacDonald (who is not good) blew up this year with interest. It can happen fast.

  26. G Money says:

    mumbai max: Below is the list of the top ten UFA D.

    This was my list as of a few days ago. My list took the same list as you started with and filtered by age and by size. My feeling is that our top 4 and their 190lb average weight (and the only big D being Belov and Fraser, not a good tradeoff) will forever leave us at a huge disadvantage against the massive PacDiv teams. The point on getting some big guys is not to bash heads so much as make it harder for the other team to bash heads.

    So my list looks as follows, with the hope being to land any two (and an overpay is a given to get any and all).

    Orpik (old so risky, won’t want to leave Pit I’m sure, but maybe a chance for a 2 year overpay)
    Hainsey
    Gilbert (sigh)
    Niskanen
    Quincey
    Diaz
    Fayne
    Nikitin

  27. G Money says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Let’s just hope it stays that way.

    Anonymous Andrew MacDonald (who is not good) blew up this year with interest. It can happen fast.

    Yeah, I don’ t know much about MacDonald. Some good boxcars, but haven’t seen him do his thing much. I do hear the “he sucks” a lot, but I haven’t actually seen that either. Is he the Isles’ Justin Schultz?

  28. G Money says:

    Woodguy: I think Eakins has marching orders not to put Hall with RNH or Eberle for the rest of the season so MacT can get a feel for what they bring away from Hall.

    If he’s doing that there may be a large roster earthquake this summer.

    I can see that with Eberle, but I hope that’s not the case with RNH.

    “Let’s put this 20 year old C out against the other teams best, with minimum experienced support, minimal size, and a poor D behind him and see how he does. He better do well or he’s gone.”

    That would be a Tambo-grade thought process.

  29. stevezie says:

    As a rule, I would rather overpay money for a UFA than trade assets, but I am not overly enamoured with any of the potentials.

    I maintain Byfuglien is the ideal target for the summer. The best argument against seems to be the Eakins would hate him, but even Eakins has to have been a little shocked it took the Oil D 70 games to score a PP goal from the point.

    That’s weird. I would also accept pathetic.

    Buff is big and generates hits and shots at an unrivaled rate. I know this isn’t a fantasy team, but if you’re crying about your D not hitting or shooting you can’t dismiss the guy who is the best at these things.

    He was out of favour in the Peg earlier this year. I would kick hard on those tires. The dead cat bounce they got after the coaching switch has also worn off, so I would also see how entrenched Ladd is.

  30. Clay says:

    Woodguy:
    As an aside.

    I think Eakins has marching orders not to put Hall with RNH or Eberle for the rest of the season so MacT can get a feel for what they bring away from Hall.

    If he’s doing that there may be a large roster earthquake this summer.

    A very interesting theory. Could be that you’re right.

  31. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    G Money: Yeah, I don’ t know much about MacDonald.Some good boxcars, but haven’t seen him do his thing much. I do hear the “he sucks” a lot, but I haven’t actually seen that either.Is he the Isles’ Justin Schultz?

    He’s a guy that is hard to peg with comparables because his chief attraction was that he was dirt cheap and was playing massive minutes (minutes he never should have won). that is, he was coveted more for “value” reasons than for “hockey” reasons.

    this led to two things happening…

    1) early in the year MSM types were like: “whoa… the Isles have this UFA who’s dirt cheap… and hey, he’s playing a ton of minutes!! you can slot him into your top pairing and it costs nothing!”

    major ecstasy among the old-school guys.

    2) the adv. stats guys looked deeper into this guy getting a lot of buzz and found Jack Johnson on a dirt cheap deal… that is a guy that looks like a player, but whom the numbers hate.

    In the end, a lot of hyperbole got tossed around. Here’s a pretty balanced post mortem:

    http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/3/5/5471462/andrew-macdonald-flyers-trade-deadline-2014-positives

    he’s not good, will probably get overpaid next contract, but he’s (like Jack Johnson) not the devil either.

  32. stevezie says:

    Ducey: Marincin – Petry
    Schultz – Ference
    UFA – UFA
    Fraser (or someone to sit in the press box most nights)

    I don’t mind the plan with Klefbom, but assuming Marincin is up for top pairing duties is too much for me, and assuming your 7th is going to sit most nights is WAY too much for me. Remember the year Struds was our 7th, and he played 72 games? D get hurt. Rookies get benched. TO had Fraser figured right as an 8th.

    I still prefer your plan to anything that involves Marincin, Klefbomb AND maybe Nurse or Ekblad up here. 2 Rookie D max, right? Right?

  33. rickithebear says:

    Marincin: QComp .037 #52; QTeam -.110 35th worst 1.91 EVGA/60
    Lets look at the Dmen with Better or similiar.

    Hjarlmasson QComp ..108 #6; QTeam -.092 46th worst 1.96 EVGA/60
    Lovejoy QComp .072 #24; QTeam -.164 15th worst 1.38 EVGA/60
    Gryba QComp .036 #53; QTeam -.068 60th worst 1.74 EVGA/60
    Dekeyser QComp .043 #50; QTeam -.048 73th worst 1.58 EVGA/60
    Belemore QComp .027 #72; QTeam -.135 22nd worst 1.64 EVGA/60
    Diaz QComp .016 #79; QTeam -.108 36th worst 1.84 EVGA/60

    Mumbai Max:
    Comp, Team, GA.?
    I know!
    but help the rest!

  34. nycoil says:

    Anyone know of a link to see Prince Albert vs. Red Deer tomorrow so we can watch Leon play?

  35. Bank Shot says:

    That D-core makes me sick to my stomach Lowetide.

    Oilers need to do something like this:

    UFA-Petry
    Ference-UFA/TRADE
    Marincin-Schultz

    Even better if Marincin gets forced into the call up role. I know he’s played well, but his blue bubble is gone and the CORSI is dropping. The Oilers don’t need a guy potentially hitting a wall next season.

    Lots of other D-men played 40-50 games in their first couple of seasons. Not going to hurt Marincin. It’s not like the guy is having a profound impact on the game. He has 2 assists in 30 games.

  36. Caramel Obvious says:

    stevezie:
    As a rule, I would rather overpay money for a UFA than trade assets, but I am not overly enamoured with any of the potentials.

    I maintain Byfuglien is the ideal target for the summer. The best argument against seems to be the Eakins would hate him, but even Eakins has to have been a little shocked it took the Oil D 70 games to score a PP goal from the point.

    That’s weird. I would also accept pathetic.

    Buff is big and generates hits and shots at an unrivaled rate. I know this isn’t a fantasy team, but if you’re crying about your D not hitting or shooting you can’t dismiss the guy who is the best at these things.

    He was out of favour in the Peg earlier this year. I would kick hard on those tires. The dead cat bounce they got after the coaching switch has also worn off, so I would also see how entrenched Ladd is.

    I completely agree that Byfuglien is the guy to target. However …

    I don’t see how to get it done. He’s only signed for two more years so trading Eberle for him straight up is a non-starter. Gagner isn’t nearly enough. Yakupov way too much.

    Then there is the NTC.

    So while Byfuglien would be #1 on my list of trade targets I don’t see how to get it done. The only way is if he is really out of favour and the Jets wanted to cut salary. Then maybe, just maybe, you could get him for a Klefbom, Lander, third round pick package.

  37. Hammers says:

    We still need 2 top “D” . Both Klefbom & Marincin can still go down next year if there is a blip to there game . If we see McT trade away Petry + for a better “D” then we know they plan on those 2 staying in Edmonton . We may see Schultz / Ference New “D” / Marincin , New “D” Klefbom and Fraser as #7 if Eakins gets his way . If Petry stays only 1 new “D” off the UFA market so no guarantee where he slots in . Nurse has to get a 9 game trial if as expected he has another good training camp then Klef goes down for 9 games . What McT shouldn’t do is get another Ference level player . He needs to aim higher and that’s why any of Petry , Klef or Marincin may get traded .

  38. stevezie says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I didn’t even think to check if he had a NTC. That does complicate things.

    Other than that, I agree. I like him a lot, but the trade will probably only make sense for us if they are already looking to move him.

    I like him, but if you’re going to overpay there are better targets.

  39. russ99 says:

    I’d hope that Klefbom starts in the AHL next year, which would mean that we sign 2-3 actual NHL defensemen via UFA.

    Plus, he may develop more with more AHL time, like Marincin did.

    Also, the Lander quotes are just maddening. So which is it, Dallas: that he can wear many hats and play multiple positions or that he can’t go into the bottom six? Should mean both, shouldn’t it? God forbid we have one less facepuncher.

    As for the Buff comments, I don’t see him as a top-pairing guy for us, or at least not fitting into the “top-pairing” ideal of what we should be looking for. But I definitely agree that he’d be a good addition and roster moves shouldn’t be predicated on how much Eakins will like him…

  40. stevezie says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I wonder if Edmonton’s fine legacy of loving black athletes would help lure him here? There have been some well publicized rifts between Buff, Kane and Winnipeg, and that might really have more to do with their personalities than their race, but the perception is certainly out there, right?

    Well, welcome to the home of Warren Moon! Grant Fuhr! Joaquin Gage! And so on!(On a side note I’m generally suspicious of being proud of things you coincidental to you- like where you’re from- but every time I hear Moon give an interview about his time in Canada I do swell up a little bit.)

  41. Woodguy says:

    G Money: I can see that with Eberle, but I hope that’s not the case with RNH.

    “Let’s put this 20 year old C out against the other teams best, with minimum experienced support, minimal size, and a poor D behind him and see how he does.He better do well or he’s gone.”

    That would be a Tambo-grade thought process.

    Gordon’s lines gets the toughest zone starts and usually ends up being a combo of 1/2 toughs.

    Whatever line Hall is on get the other set of tougher minutes.

    14-93 do not see the toughs away from Hall.

    The opposite actually at home.

    On the road opposing coaches chase them with their best line a bit, but Eakins tries to hide them, even to the point of putting out the 4th vs. Toughs.

  42. slopitch says:

    I agree on Klefbom and Marincin playing well. If Klefbom can improve the rest of they year as well as Lander thats 2 less issues to solve for MacT. Granted those are not the 2C or 1D issues that are so glaring. I also agree that Nurse (and possibly Ekblad) should get another year of juniors.

    Hall should play with Gagner for the rest of the year. Just like Hemsky should have as well. It would be good to pump and dump. The Oilers need a Couturier type C to play 2C.

    Mark Fayne, also had to google him. NJD always does well finding those guys.

  43. stevezie says:

    russ99,

    In the interview Rom posted he has a few more encouraging things to say about Lander. I have noted Eakins is very positive about all his players publicly, even guys like Hemsky and Arcobello who have already been sent out. I like that about him, but as TGO says, the real tell is in what he does.

    Also, looking at this summer’s UFA D crop, I will be impressed if we can get one of those guys, let alone three. Pickings are slim. I think we need one real signing and one low-risk-get-lucky, like re-upping Belov and having him deliver Hejda’s second season, or keeping Fedun and having him turn into pre-first concussion Corey Potter.

    You don’t fix something as broken as the Oilers without some major league luck.

  44. stevezie says:

    slopitch: The Oilers need a Couturier type C to play 2C.

    Last one then I’ll hang up and listen. Couturier’s name gets thrown around here a lot, and I maintain a franchise as… bold as Philly should always be in the conversation, but consider the recent Friedman:

    15. For all the criticism the Flyers take about contract decisions, remember this: Sean Couturier and Matt Read manhandled the Pittsburgh Penguins’ best players twice in 24 hours. The duo is signed for the next two years at a combined salary-cap hit of $5.375 million.

    16. The story’s been in this blog before, but approximately five years ago, Philly wanted Jay Bouwmeester from Florida and the Panthers asked for Claude Giroux — before the current Flyers captain was an established player. Paul Holmgren said no, a franchise-altering move. Someday, we’re going to find out how many times he said no about Couturier. The Los Angeles Kings asked for sure last summer, when Jonathan Bernier was on the move, but the Flyers said no dice. I don’t know how much Couturier will score, but he’s an elite shutdown player.

    I think he is underestimating Couturier’s scoring, too.

  45. Soup Fascist says:

    While I know a proven top pairing defenseman (or two) is what is needed, a Mark Fayne is an interesting name of a guy who may be under the radar a bit.

    Here is another – Nick Holden – Colorado Avalanche. Not near as established as Fayne, is Holden a diamond in the rough – or coal?

    Positives. 26 years old. 6′ 3″ 210 lb. D-man with an absolute bomb from the point. Scoring at slightly better PPG pace than J. Schultz. Holden is 7G – 11A in 40 GP this year. Skates well. Can run a power play. One more year on a value contract before UFA, but is a local kid (St. Albert) who one could see re-signing after 2015.

    Negatives. From what I have seen is not as physical as he could be with his frame. Has only played 40 games on a ” less than fearsome ” Avalanche blueline, being a HS several nights. Would like to think it is a case of being buried by better players – but the fact the Avs play Nate Guenin, Andre Benoit and Cory Sarich ahead of him is pause for concern.

    Any insights?

  46. Soup Fascist says:

    stevezie:
    Caramel Obvious,

    I wonder if Edmonton’s fine legacy of loving black athletes would help lure him here? There have been some well publicized rifts between Buff, Kane and Winnipeg, and that might really have more to do with their personalities than their race, but the perception is certainly out there, right?

    Well, welcome to the home of Warren Moon! Grant Fuhr! Joaquin Gage! And so on!(On a side note I’m generally suspicious of being proud of things you coincidental to you- like where you’re from- but every time I hear Moon give an interview about his time in Canada I do swell up a little bit.)

    You forgot about Pokey!

    Sincerely, Gumby

  47. Mr DeBakey says:

    I think when its comes to UFA D, Hall of Famer Jim Matty nailed it.

    Matt Greene, soon to be number 22 in your program and number 1 in your heart.

    Experience
    Size
    Grititude
    Cup Ring
    The four elements of NHL hockey in one package

  48. russ99 says:

    stevezie,

    I disagree, I think the Oilers need to target 3 defensemen in UFA for us to be better next year, to assist the kids on the big club and make the kids not on the big club earn a spot. And we have the cap room to do it.

    IMO: the signings would be:

    1. Top pairing guy like Markov or Niskanen to pair with Petry
    2. Second pairing D-first guy like Fayne to pair with Schultz
    3. Late inexpensive signing of a tough, physical guy to be the #7 and plays against tougher Western Conference teams, i.e. someone better defensively and with the puck than Fraser

  49. G Money says:

    Woodguy: 14-93 do not see the toughs away from Hall.
    The opposite actually at home.
    On the road opposing coaches chase them with their best line a bit, but Eakins tries to hide them, even to the point of putting out the 4th vs. Toughs.

    If that’s the case, what is it that MacT expects to learn about either player from the potentially lose-lose scenario? Kind of echoes the situation of why an NFL team will never play CFL team.

    If they can overmatch those lines, isn’t the result “well, you’re *supposed* to do that”?

    And if they can’t overmatch those lines, does that mean MacT has no choice but to trade one or both?

  50. RexLibris says:

    Nice to see Fayne get some mention here. I think he’d be a terrific addition to a team that already has a solid top pairing. For the Oilers he’d improve the group and I’d be encouraged by their adding him instead of re-signing Mark Fraser, but he alone won’t be enough to improve the group significantly.

    Fayne and Markov together? Maybe.

    But I wonder if the development of Marincin and, perhaps, Klefbom bring this defense corps up to “average” from “awful” and that our long time in the defensive wilderness has caused us to lose perspective on what acceptable defensive pairings actually look like.

    I guess I’m sort of asking a fundamental question for this organization: ought they trade away young players who are currently adequate but show promise for someone who is an established improvement on the status quo but has peaked?

  51. Ryan says:

    If the goal is to compete for a playoff spot next season, let’s take a look..

    Teams that are a lock for next season (barring unforeseen circumstances)

    1. Blues
    2. KIngs
    3. Blackhaws
    4.Sharks
    5. Ducks

    So there’s maybe 3 spots (2 if Colorado can sustain) left to compete for.

    Fortunately the implosion of the Canucks roster has opened up one slot.

    Teams that will compete for the final two:

    1. Minnesota
    2. Dallas – a team with some nice things on their roster
    3. The Yotes never go away.
    4. Winnipeg is trending up
    5. Vancouver might be able to cobble together a roster next season.

    Anyway, agreed that MacT has to make some championship calibre moves to put the Oilers in contention for a playoff spot next season.

    Lordy even with unreal and unsustainable goaltending, we’re currently a team that has no more than a puncher’s chance against a playoff team for any given game.

  52. John Chambers says:

    RexLibris,

    Great question.

    Essentially, does the organization shed some potential in order to net much needed respectability in the here and now, or are we really living for a big bash in 2017.

    Can we afford to wait?

  53. Woodguy says:

    Mr DeBakey:
    He’s a guy that is hard to peg with comparables because his chief attrac

    1) Frequent healthy scratch
    2) Doesn’t skate well
    3) Doesn’t pass well
    4) MOARBIGGOOD

  54. Woodguy says:

    G Money: If that’s the case, what is it that MacT expects to learn about either player from the potentially lose-lose scenario?Kind of echoes the situation of why an NFL team will never play CFL team.

    If they can overmatch those lines, isn’t the result “well, you’re *supposed* to do that”?

    And if they can’t overmatch those lines, does that mean MacT has no choice but to trade one or both?

    Every team has a secondary soft minute scoring line.

    Some are softer than others.

    It is the gravy minutes of the NHL.

    If they can’t score there, where are they going to score?

  55. Ryan says:

    Woodguy’s on fire today. agreed to pretty much all he’s said above.

  56. John Chambers says:

    Woodguy,

    About playing Hall away from Eberle and Nuge, I think it has everything to do with improving 89′s stats in order to make him more marketable this summer. Hall is on his left side for the points, while Perron is on his right for the. +\-.

    The Oilers will need to have dough to go after a Markov, a Grabovski, and a Winnik, and flushing Hemsky and Gagner without paying a residual is step 1.

  57. Ryan says:

    John Chambers:
    Woodguy,

    About playing Hall away from Eberle and Nuge, I think it has everything to do with improving 89′s stats in order to make him more marketable this summer. Hall is on his left side for the points, while Perron is on his right for the. +-.

    The Oilers will need to have dough to go after a Markov, a Grabovski, and a Winnik, and flushing Hemsky and Gagner without paying a residual is step 1.

    Absolutely agree that there’s probably some element of showcasing Gagner going on.

    I also believe Eakins quote about them needing to swim without Hall. Might have made sense to see how they could play without Hall (Eberle, RNH) before they were signed to $6m contracts though. :)

  58. Rondo says:

    I don’t think Oilers problems have to do with talent. I don’t think Oilers management knows how to win. The team has been infected by losing too much. 8 years of losing develops a culture. It would be nice to trade player X for player Y but I don’t think this solves the biggest problem.

  59. G Money says:

    Woodguy: If they can’t score there, where are they going to score?

    So – as per my question, if they can’t score (as they haven’t), does that mean you trade one or both of Eberle or RNH?

  60. Botts182 says:

    I agree 100% with the comments about Matt Greene, what a great pick up he would be. I would be on board with him or a Brooks Orpik or Kyle Quincey slotting in the #3 or #4 spot. I am spit balling here but I think this 7 would be a great improvement:

    #1 or #2 UFA/Trade – Schultz
    Greene/Quincey/Orpik – Petry
    Marincin/Klefbom – Ference
    Fraser

    Start Klefbom in OKC and let him work his way back up. Or unfortunatley you might have to deal him or Marincin for that #1 or #2 D-man

  61. Caramel Obvious says:

    G Money: So – as per my question, if they can’t score (as they haven’t), does that mean you trade one or both of Eberle or RNH?

    This is the big problem. Lowetide has been talking about having the jacks and kings for a long time. But what if it turns out that the jacks and kings were really eights and tens?

    Myself, I think you wait it out unless you can turn Eberle into someone like Couturier. However, there is no way this team can fill its holes on D through the free agent market.

    A Perron like trade is an absolute necessity. To me that means trading Klefbom. That way you solve two problems at once. You get the established player you need and you don’t overwhelm your roster with young D. There is no way both Marincin and Klefbom can start the season on the team next year, let alone Nurse and/or Ekblad.**

    **This will be the real test. If they have the courage to keep Ekblad in junior another year like Yzerman did with Drouin we’ll know that management has turned the corner.

  62. VanOil says:

    Nate Silver delivering the smack down on Brian Burke.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-fox-knows/

  63. RexLibris says:

    Response to Burke’s comments at the Sloan sports conference from Nate Silver.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-fox-knows/

    Courtesy of Scott Cullen’s twitter.

    VanOil!

    Missed it by *that* much! – Maxwell Smart

  64. Woodguy says:

    John Chambers:
    Woodguy,

    About playing Hall away from Eberle and Nuge, I think it has everything to do with improving 89′s stats in order to make him more marketable this summer. Hall is on his left side for the points, while Perron is on his right for the. +\-.

    The Oilers will need to have dough to go after a Markov, a Grabovski, and a Winnik, and flushing Hemsky and Gagner without paying a residual is step 1.

    Excellent point as well.

  65. Rondo says:

    Tired of hearing about what we should do with Ekblad.

    Oilers don’t have the #1 pick yet.

    Buffalo would probably take Ekblad first if they had the 1st pick and the NYI pick. They would end up with a D and a F. If not probably a F.

    Florida would pick Ekblad if available they may have the #2 pick

    NYI would take Ekblad first

    Calgary would take Ekblad first.

    Oilers are looking like the will finish between 2nd last and 5th.

  66. Lowetide says:

    Even with Hall the Nuge-Ebs combo isn’t on fire this season 5×5

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=20&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=EDM&f7=10-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

    For Nuge, he’s never been over 2.00 at 5×5/60 (behind the net). Eberle is well off the pace, his second year in a row of strong downward trending.

  67. FastOil says:

    Lowetide:
    Even with Hall the Nuge-Ebs combo isn’t on fire this season 5×5

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=20&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=EDM&f7=10-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

    For Nuge, he’s never been over 2.00 at 5×5/60 (behind the net). Eberle is well off the pace, his second year in a row of strong downward trending.

    What does the Lombardian GM do faced with such facts?

  68. Rondo says:

    I think the people who are into advanced stats put more weight on them than the people who don’t.

    Burke is a perfect example. We will need advanced stats to figure out how much weight we should put on advanced stats.

  69. TheOtherJohn says:

    Woodguy: 1) Frequent healthy scratch
    2) Doesn’t skate well
    3) Doesn’t pass well
    4) MOARBIGGOOD

    This

  70. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    If Matt Greene comes in cheap (1.3M or lower no more than 2 years) and is the 7 or 8, fine. He’s better than Fraser in the same basic role… and frighteningly it sure looks like we are going to get stuck with one of these clunkers in the off-season.

    But, please folks… turn the delusion down to “normal” on your stations.

  71. FastOil says:

    John Chambers:
    Woodguy,

    About playing Hall away from Eberle and Nuge, I think it has everything to do with improving 89′s stats in order to make him more marketable this summer. Hall is on his left side for the points, while Perron is on his right for the. +\-.

    The Oilers will need to have dough to go after a Markov, a Grabovski, and a Winnik, and flushing Hemsky and Gagner without paying a residual is step 1.

    Let’s hope because that is the intelligent thing to do.

    If he was to stay that is what he needs to be at his best. Physical playing shooting wingers of which both are, the former to create space for him, the latter because that’s not his strength.

    Nuge needs them as well, although he will continue to improve in traffic as we are seeing this year with his willingness to fight back when guys push him around.

  72. stevezie says:

    russ99: I disagree, I think the Oilers need to target 3 defensemen in UFA for us to be better next year, to assist the kids on the big club and make the kids not on the big club earn a spot

    Sorry, I meant I thought it was unrealistic to plan on landing more than 1 UFA D, not unwise.

    Caramel Obvious,

    I agree with all this. The D pipeline is finally looking respectable. I think it would be ideal to only break in one rookie D at a time, which means Ekblad (hypothetically) and Nurse both go back to junior and one of Marincin or Klefbom gets traded.

    I am NOT repeating the classic “Well, we have two of a thing, so we must move one” line of nonsense. I am saying, “we have a lot of holes. Young, promising defenceman are the ONLY thing we have an extra of so it makes sense to trade that.”

  73. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    FastOil: What does the Lombardian GM do faced with such facts?

    trade high on Eberle and not worry about RNH, but try to find him a Stasny to cover for him.

  74. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Stauffer had Lazar on… good scouting reports on a variety of WHL players: Draisaitl, Virtanen, etc.

    high praise all around, of course, Stauff didn’t ask about pluggers.

  75. Woodguy says:

    G Money: So – as per my question, if they can’t score (as they haven’t), does that mean you trade one or both of Eberle or RNH?

    You can’t trade RNH.

    He’s the only good young C in the org. and I think he’ll be an excellent player.

    We need to remember he is 20.

    So let’s look at the wingers.

    Hall, Perron, Eberle, Yak.

    Hall is obv. never trade.

    Perron seems to create offense regardless of who he plays with and is a disturber. I don’t trade him UNLESS the return is a C I want (like Anisimov or Dubinsky from CBJ)

    Eberle – 87pts in last 116 games (since he blow up SH% year) or about .75pts/gm or 61.5pt/82gm pace.

    Not numbers to sneeze at, but you can ask if its $6MM/yr numbers (answer: not today, maybe in 2 years)

    Has a reasonable reputation in the NHL. Was invited to Team Canada Oly camp in the spring.

    Yak – Rookie year SH% was sky high. Struggling this year. Weak perception around the NHL.

    It comes down to Perron, Eberle and Yak.

    I think you get the most back with Eberle.

    I think you lose a ton a value with trading Yak, his value couldn’t be lower.

    I think you get a nice return for Perron, but the Oilers lack his type.

    It really depends on what you want and what is offered as returns.

    I think you lose if you trade Yak today due to lack of value.

  76. stevezie says:

    Rondo: I think the people who are into advanced stats put more weight on them than the people who don’t.

    I don’t quite understand this sentence.

    Romulus Apotheosis: But, please folks… turn the delusion down to “normal” on your stations.

    Yours has that setting? I’ve got nothing between “off” and “turbo”.

  77. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: trade high on Eberle and not worry about RNH, but try to find him a Stasny to cover for him.

    I’d love me a Stastny.

    Anisimov or Dubinsky would be excellent as well.

  78. G Money says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: But, please folks… turn the delusion down to “normal” on your stations.

    We are Oiler fans. Not sure that control exists such that we can turn it down!

  79. Bar_Qu says:

    Apparently Chris Wescott thinks the Carolina game represents the Oilers as team “turning a corner”

    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=709956

    Which is good, making it fourteen corners they have turned so far this season.

    I think this explains why it looks like they are going in circles.

  80. G Money says:

    Woodguy: I think you get the most back with Eberle.

    OK, I actually agree with this … circling back to the original idea, though – playing Eberle w/o Hall actually weakens his value, does it not?

    This is the Oiler dilemma in this situation – if you play Hall with Gagner to boost his value, you might devalue Eberle, but if you play Hall with Eberle, you’re unlikely to get any value from Gagner.

  81. G Money says:

    Bar_Qu,

    Two wrongs do not make a right, however, three lefts do in fact make a right.

    There you have it: LT’s legendary 3-for-1.

  82. Bag of Pucks says:

    mumbai max:
    LT, wondering about this statement, in your opening line.

    “Most of that is goaltending and is not sustainable”

    Most good clubs have good goaltending, that is a big part of what makes them good clubs. It IS
    sustainable, you just need good goalies. It seems we do. So, we can stop separating the goaltending
    and the team into two separate narratives. We have good goaltending. It is sustainable. They are part of the team. Basta.

    So, now the narrative goes something like this.

    The Oilers have consistently good goaltending.

    Agree with this x10. If a team has elite goaltending, they shouldn’t have to apologize for it and continually wait for the other shoe to drop (sure this Roy guy is good now, but NO way this is sustainable!). At some point, you can start to think of your competitive advantages as exactly that.

    Clearly we’re nowhere near the point of Scrivens being ‘money in the bank’ yet. But the early returns look very encouraging.

  83. delooper says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Apparently Chris Wescott thinks the Carolina game represents the Oilers asteam “turning a corner”

    http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=709956

    Which is good, making it fourteen corners they have turned so far this season.

    I think this explains why it looks like they are going in circles.

    IMO the corner was turned only once, and it was just before the Olympic break.

    The team isn’t great but they’re no longer bleeding out their sides. This is progress.

  84. nycoil says:

    I don’t think the Oilers are in a position to trade Eberle anymore unless it is in that mythical 3-for-1 for a true 1D or 1C in the right age bracket to be both an immediate upgrade and a core piece for the next 5+ years. That’ s because Hemsky is gone now, too. As Rom said, that’s like the Canucks with their goaltending. You don’t go from having Eberle, Hemsky, Yakupov to just Yakupov next year, throw him in the deep end and pray it works out. You can’t trade Eberle until we know what we have in Yak, unless it is for a player much better than Eberle. I do agree Eberle probably has the most value and is the most tradable piece of the cluster, but I don’t think the team can afford it at this time, unless, well, unicorns.

  85. delooper says:

    Eberle for a good 2C is totally reasonable and do-able. Centre is more important than wing. And if they can’t trade Gagner, he could take Eberle’s spot.

  86. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    nycoil:
    I don’t think the Oilers are in a position to trade Eberle anymore unless it is in that mythical 3-for-1 for a true 1D or 1C in the right age bracket to be both an immediate upgrade and a core piece for the next 5+ years. That’ s because Hemsky is gone now, too. As Rom said, that’s like the Canucks with their goaltending. You don’t go from having Eberle, Hemsky, Yakupov to just Yakupov next year, throw him in the deep end and pray it works out. You can’t trade Eberle until we know what we have in Yak, unless it is for a player much better than Eberle. I do agree Eberle probably has the most value and is the most tradable piece of the cluster, but I don’t think the team can afford it at this time, unless, well, unicorns.

    delooper:
    Eberle for a good 2C is totally reasonable and do-able.Centre is more important than wing.And if they can’t trade Gagner, he could take Eberle’s spot.

    Yep.

    that’s the answer there. They don’t need a stone faced killer 1C or D… but they need to fill a critical rostered position, i.e., 2C. A package that brought back Couturier or someone from CBJ, or Ehrhoff, or something of that caliber is a win for the team right now.

    And, as we explored previously, Gagner might work in his spot if you gave him a strong center to work with.

  87. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    Even with Hall the Nuge-Ebs combo isn’t on fire this season 5×5

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=20&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=EDM&f7=10-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

    For Nuge, he’s never been over 2.00 at 5×5/60 (behind the net). Eberle is well off the pace, his second year in a row of strong downward trending.

    Who’s that Arcobello fellow with almost 2.00pts/60 5v5.

    They could use a man who puts up 5v5 points like that.

  88. stevezie says:

    delooper: Eberle for a good 2C is totally reasonable and do-able.

    Yes, but I think we end up drafting a 2C this summer. We might also sign one. Trading Ebs makes more sense as a plan C than A. With Hemsky gone we no longer have an extra RW.

    (Though there is this spirited little plug tearing up the AHL right now- he played center in the NHL but has experience on the wing. I wonder what it would take to get Arcobello?)

  89. Bag of Pucks says:

    delooper:
    Eberle for a good 2C is totally reasonable and do-able.Centre is more important than wing.And if they can’t trade Gagner, he could take Eberle’s spot.

    I agree with this fully. If you can trade Eberle for a strong two way C with some grit and defensive chops (Couturier does fit the bill well), then it frees you up to draft Ekblad to grab the 1D holy grail (if he’s available) or a nice RW with size (in a draft where most of the Cs are on the small size). This team has to change its size/skill mix among the Top 6 to compete in the West imo. They can’t go into every game against the likes of St Loo and LA outweighed by 20lbs per man. We’ve seen this movie before. By the third period, they’re done.

    Wouldn’t surprise me if MacT goes into the offseason shopping Gags hard and when the returns coming back prove underwhelming, Yak or Ebs go on the block instead. Can also see a potential scenario where Klef and Marincin impress down the stretch as does Nurse in camp, and suddenly J Schultz is the topic of trade conversations. Don’t think the team is seeing the upside on the pp with this player sufficient to warrant the weak defensive play. Teams have figured out Schutzie, take away his ability to walk in with the wrister and he’s very defensible.

  90. Woodguy says:

    delooper:
    Eberle for a good 2C is totally reasonable and do-able.Centre is more important than wing.And if they can’t trade Gagner, he could take Eberle’s spot.

    I think the OIlers trade Gagner for 3LW/RW depending on which side Hendricks prefers.

    It makes sense.

    You are trading an ostensibly RW who can score and play PP, but has low value due to his contract and recent results for a Gritty/Tough/Man to play the toughs.

    I wonder if MacT asks Nonis if we wants to give up on Clarkson yet and offers Gagner.

    Clarkson officially has the worst contract in the NHL and it goes on forever.

    So I see Gagner getting traded for something like that, but maybe not that bad of a contract coming back.

  91. nycoil says:

    delooper,

    You are misinterpreting what I wrote. C is more important than W in broad terms. I don’t want to go through a rehash of Seguin vs. Hall, etc. In summary you want BPA, then deal from positions of strength to shore up positions of need. Oilers are better stocked at wing than at C, no doubt. But RW is no longer a position of excess strength for the Oilers.
    I’d prefer to just throw money at Stastny for 2C (or 1B C if you want to call it that).

    If that doesn’t work, I’d explore trading Eberle in a package for a very strong C or #1D, rather than a flip for a good 2C.

    To be clear, I’d consider Couturier an upgrade, if Holmgren somehow bites on that. I don’t think Eberle would return someone of that caliber unless in a package, and the Johansen ship has sailed.

    And also, Ehrhoff, at that cap hit, with Buffalo eating the recapture risk? Sign me up!

  92. RexLibris says:

    delooper:
    Eberle for a good 2C is totally reasonable and do-able.Centre is more important than wing.And if they can’t trade Gagner, he could take Eberle’s spot.

    I’m in this mode of thought as well.

    Eberle for Couturier-type young 2C and then Gagner for a struggling blueliner who needs a change of address, ie: problem for problem.

    That would be a best-case scenario, I think.

    Do all that and add Draisaitl at the draft and sign Fayne, Greene and a Winnik or Kulemin and this team might not stink!

    Hooray!

  93. theres oil in virginia says:

    Eberle is 23. He’s only on pace for 25 goals this year. (In a year with another new coach, another new system, and a clear emphasis on responsible defense – which he is clearly buying into and showing real signs of improvement. Not to mention that he’ll be coming into his own physically in the coming years.) He’s clearly plateaued, trade him now before it’s too late. While we’re at it, Hall’s Corsi has plummeted. Trade him now before he loses all that value. After all, they’re the two best wingers on the team, so get rid of them for gord’s sake. All this hilarity and TGO isn’t even posting right now. I guess all the years of losing really has taken it’s toll.

    I’ve got the best idea of all: trade Eberle + Gagner + Klefbom for Jack Johnson (3 for 1!). It solves three problems at once. Johnson instantly becomes the Oilers best defenseman (oh, it’s true), no more Eberle angst, and Gagner.

  94. Ducey says:

    delooper: IMO the corner was turned only once, and it was just before the Olympic break.

    The team isn’t great but they’re no longer bleeding out their sides.This is progress.

    I agree and am surprised that the change hasn’t played more into the narrative around here.

    There is lots of Oilers suck, Corgis suck, Eakins sucks, and now even Yak and Eberle suck. But this misses the point.

    There has clearly been a big change in the philosophy of how the Oilers are going to approach games. They have been playing a 1 – 3 – 1 trap pretty often lately (Babcok mentioned it). Guys like Hall and Yak have looked kind of lost trying to do it.

    I see it as a positive as the Oilers have finally broken from the mantra of playing “Oilers Hockey” which is code for 1980′s run and gun. It doesn’t and hasn’t worked.

    I expect that many of the players will have to continue to make the adjustment from cheating for offense to cheating for defense. In the course of doing that they are going to get outshot and have trouble generating offense. The Corgis will be wimpering for a while and guys like Eberle, Nuge, Yak are going to have trouble finding the right spot on the ice.

    Changing the system you play in a fundamental way, on the fly, is damn hard. Especially when lots of those players have never been asked to play that way.

    Hopefully healthier the shot differentials the last two games is at least some evidence of progress in the adjustment.

    Now none of this explains the terrible PP…

  95. Bag of Pucks says:

    If the team doesn’t land a 2C in the draft, Paul Stastny will enjoy a very enjoyable evening on the Katz Gulfstream festooned with hookers and ecstasy – possibly recreating Don Henley’s Hotel California choir.

  96. nycoil says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Even if the team lands a 2C at the draft, that 2C should spend another year in junior at the minimum, then time in the AHL after that first. Heaven forbid the team doesn’t think an 18yr old will be ready for 2C… so “Mr Stastny, your G6 awaits and the champagne is on ice. Destination…YEG”

  97. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: I think the OIlers trade Gagner for 3LW/RW depending on which side Hendricks prefers.

    It makes sense.

    You are trading an ostensibly RW who can score and play PP, but has low value due to his contract and recent results for a Gritty/Tough/Man to play the toughs.

    I wonder if MacT asks Nonis if we wants to give up on Clarkson yet and offers Gagner.

    Clarkson officially has the worst contract in the NHL and it goes on forever.

    So I see Gagner getting traded for something like that, but maybe not that bad of a contract coming back.

    Why trade for this gritty 3W when all of Moss, Kulemin and Winnik are available for $$ and term this off-season?

    That seems like a hole they can fill via free agency.

  98. nycoil says:

    I wonder how bold/creative MacT can get?

    Gagner and 2014 1st to Buffalo for Ehrhoff and NYI’s 1st (either 2014 or, more likely 2015). Then throw money at a 2C in the summer? Or, if that fails, explore the Eberle market. Would that work?

    Buffalo might jump on it if the Isles defer to 2015. They probably don’t take this deal if it just means moving up a couple of slots in 2014 unless they just covet Ekblad + one of the 3 Cs, while the Oilers could still conceivably draft the one that is left of Bennett/Reihart/Draisaitl and would be all over this deal. Instead, the Oilers would likely be gambling on Snow’s management prowess this summer. Salaries are slightly in the Oilers’ favour.

  99. Bag of Pucks says:

    nycoil:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Even if the team lands a 2C at the draft, that 2C should spend another year in junior at the minimum, then time in the AHL after that first. Heaven forbid the team doesn’t think an 18yr old will be ready for 2C… so “Mr Stastny, your G6 awaits and the champagne is on ice. Destination…YEG”

    I genuinely agree with marinating the picks in the minors too, but if the pick’s in the Top 3, I don’t think it’s an unreasonable expectation that the player may be good enough to make the jump – rather than going back to junior.

  100. The Great One says:

    The latest on and from Statsny:

    From the Denver Post:

    “Everybody knows how the business works,” Stastny said. “You can obviously go somewhere and get more money somewhere else. But if you have something good and you want to stick with it, that hometown discount is obviously something that everyone’s aware of and is important to do. You want both sides to be happy. You don’t want to [mistreat] the team and you want the team to be put in a good situation where they can kind of compete down the road as well.”

  101. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Why trade for this gritty 3W when all of Moss, Kulemin and Winnik are available for $$ and term this off-season?

    That seems like a hole they can fill via free agency.

    I’d agree, and this is why I think the most logical way to move Gagner is a sort of roster-adjacent move, that is, forward for defense. Using the Schenn/Van Riemsdyk trade as a model, I think it is the best approach to take in preserving as much of Gagner’s trade value as is possible.

    *Acknowledging that Gagner does not equal Schenn as either prospect or player, for those anxious to use this comment to fly off on a new tangent.

  102. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Gregor on Lander today:

    “It was only two games, but Anton Lander looks like a much different player than last year. He is stronger on the puck, looks a bit quicker and most importantly he has confidence with the puck. It is amazing what confidence can do for a player.”

    http://oilersnation.com/2014/3/17/players-need-to-take-charge

    not quoting because I necessarily agree/disagree… I think Gregor, like Matty, are good bellweathers for how the Oilers are thinking: they are around the rink all the time and share a lot of the Oilers thinking about old man hockey stuff.

    things could be brighter for Lander than we thought… I won’t unpack the suitcase though.

  103. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: Who’s that Arcobello fellow with almost 2.00pts/60 5v5.

    They could use a man who puts up 5v5 points like that.

    One of the things we’ll have to do at the end of the year is take a good long look at stubborn and coach. There’s a growing list, Arcobello and the power play being the two that are most galling.

  104. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris,

    one thought on a Gagner trade might be to find a prospect the Oil really like and buy early.

    we know they like Lazar and Samuelsson for example, I’m sure there are others.

  105. gcw_rocks says:

    Woodguy,

    I’d like to see Markov here on a 2 year overpay.

    Yes, I agree. Assuming the upper end on Petry and Schultz is $4M, you could add Markov at up to $8M per for 2 years and still be “in the range” on total defence spending if Marincin and Klefbom play.

    Hall $6,000
    Eberle $6,000
    RNH $6,000
    Yakupov $3,995
    Perron $3,812
    2C
    Gordon $3,000
    hendricks $1,850
    3RW TBD
    Joensuu $950
    4C $1,000 (max)
    4LW $1,000 (max)
    Forwards $33,607

    Markov $8,000
    Petry $4,000
    Schultz $3,995
    Ference $3,250
    Klefbom $1,244
    Marincin $870
    Defence $21,359

    Fasth $2,900
    Scrivins $2,300
    Goal $5,200

    Total $60,166
    Cap $71,000
    Available $10,834

    Assuming the Oilers spend no more than a $1M each filling out the fourth line and they live with Hendricks on the third line, then the Oilers would still have at least $10M to fill out the 2C and 3RW spots (Gagner traded, of course). I would prefer they not count on Marincin and Klefbom and bring in two vets (Markov or Hainsey plus Fayne) and let the kids try and push Ference to the pressbox, even if it means going a little more budget up front.

  106. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    RexLibris,

    one thought on a Gagner trade might be to find a prospect the Oil really like and buy early.

    we know they like Lazar and Samuelsson for example, I’m sure there are others.

    With Gagner, there’s two things. The asset (player) and the salary. If the Oilers can trade Gagner for picks at the draft, and turn that $4.8M into a useful player via free agency, that might be the better plan.

    Not exactly Gagner for Kulemin, but kind of the same thing (with Kulemin and picks coming back).

  107. gcw_rocks says:

    RexLibris,

    Using the Schenn/Van Riemsdyk trade as a model, I think it is the best approach to take in preserving as much of Gagner’s trade value as is possible.

    This is exactly what they need to do. Should have done it last summer, perhaps for Kulikov. Florida’s RW depth chart is fairly weak. Gagner would be a good fit.

  108. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: One of the things we’ll have to do at the end of the year is take a good long look at stubborn and coach. There’s a growing list, Arcobello and the power play being the two that are most galling.

    Big Fly Caveat!

    the PP is terrible. And, the inability to tinker effectively with it is a real, dyed-in-the-wool issue.

    ———–
    BUT,

    we’ve looked at this before and we need to again. The idea that RK was running a good PP is not true and it needs to die.

    Eakins: SF/60: 46.1 (26th); SH%: 11.31 (19th)
    RK: 41.5 (29th); 16.86 (2nd)
    Renney: 44.5 (24th); 16.07 (1st)
    Renney: 41.6 (30th); 12.06 (13th)

    Out of the last 4 years Eakins is running the best SF/60 on the PP. This is the most conclusive way to evaluate how good and how repeatable a PP is.

    Renney’s first year was terrible… absolute disaster and was only modestly lucky.

    Renney’s second year was terrible, not quite a disaster and was all-world lucky.

    RK’s year was terrible… absolute disaster and was all-world lucky

    Eakins’ year is terrible, not quite a disaster and he’s all-world unlucky.

  109. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: With Gagner, there’s two things. The asset (player) and the salary. If the Oilers can trade Gagner for picks at the draft, and turn that $4.8M into a useful player via free agency, that might be the better plan.

    Not exactly Gagner for Kulemin, but kind of the same thing (with Kulemin and picks coming back).

    Yep. that works too.

    And, it would fix that hole from 2-4 all the way to the 4th round MacT was worried about before the deadline.

  110. nycoil says:

    The Great One:
    The latest on and from Statsny:

    From the Denver Post:

    “Everybody knows how the business works,” Stastny said. “You can obviously go somewhere and get more money somewhere else. But if you have something good and you want to stick with it, that hometown discount is obviously something that everyone’s aware of and is important to do. You want both sides to be happy. You don’t want to [mistreat] the team and you want the team to be put in a good situation where they can kind of compete down the road as well.”

    Thank you for that. I guess I am just hoping that with the surplus of centres that Colorado has, and the high salaries required for Duchene, Stastny, ROR and Mackinnon, that perhaps they may not have the money for Stastny. Pure speculation on my part. If the Oilers offer Stastny 5 yrs and $6.5m per, and Colorado re-signs ROR to something similar, what hometown discount contract would be enough for them to keep Stastny? How much of a difference would be too much for him not to fly north?

  111. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Big Fly Caveat!

    the PP is terrible. And, the inability to tinker effectively with it is a real, dyed-in-the-wool issue.

    ———–
    BUT,

    we’ve looked at this before and we need to again. The idea that RK was running a good PP is not true and it needs to die.

    Eakins: SF/60: 46.1 (26th); SH%: 11.31 (19th)
    RK: 41.5 (29th);16.86 (2nd)
    Renney: 44.5 (24th); 16.07 (1st)
    Renney: 41.6 (30th); 12.06 (13th)

    Out of the last 4 years Eakins is running the best SF/60 on the PP. This is the most conclusive way to evaluate how good and how repeatable a PP is.

    Renney’s first year was terrible… absolute disaster and was only modestly lucky.

    Renney’s second year was terrible, not quite a disaster and was all-world lucky.

    RK’s year was terrible… absolute disaster and was all-world lucky

    Eakins’ year is terrible, not quite a disaster and he’s all-world unlucky.

    This “evidence” you have brought to the discussion is contrary to what my brain tells me is so. This is Monday, and you’re making me think! Bastage!

    Of course you’re right. It’s funny how quickly the mind slips into assuming knowledge without actually checking the facts.

  112. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide: With Gagner, there’s two things. The asset (player) and the salary. If the Oilers can trade Gagner for picks at the draft, and turn that $4.8M into a useful player via free agency, that might be the better plan.

    Not exactly Gagner for Kulemin, but kind of the same thing (with Kulemin and picks coming back).

    I guess you’d better get the UFAs first and then dump the Gagner salary, no? You might dump Gagner for picks, expecting to get some good UFA, and end up with Ryan Jones and some draft picks. Unfortunately, the timing (draft comes before UFA season) is out of order.

  113. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    RexLibris,

    one thought on a Gagner trade might be to find a prospect the Oil really like and buy early.

    we know they like Lazar and Samuelsson for example, I’m sure there are others.

    Well, if I could convince Don Maloney that Sam Gagner was worth Henrik Samuelsson I’d be on the phone right now! I’d be surprised if either Murray or Maloney would be willing to make a move like that, but if MacTavish could do it, I’d be perfectly alright with it.

    One advantage that happens if the Oilers trade Gagner is that it rips open that 2C spot in so glaring a way that even the Oilers can’t ignore. It forces them to do something about it rather than offer an easy out to say “well, maybe he’ll get better next year” or “we’ll just wait until the right deal comes along”. We’ve been down this road and sometimes it is worth waiting when one is dealing with top-end talent (Eberle and Yakupov, for instance) but in other cases a deal just needs to be made (Paajarvi or Dubnyk trades, as examples).

    Gagner for Samuelsson or Lazar? Sounds just fine to me. Now go take that money and give Legwand, Statsny, and a few others a call. If all else fails, make that big shakeup move to acquire Couturier.

  114. Woodguy says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I agree with this fully. If you can trade Eberle for a strong two way C with some grit and defensive chops (Couturier does fit the bill well),

    5v5 pts/60 this year.

    Eberle plaing with Hall or getting the softs 1.82

    Couturier playing w/ Read against the toughest comp 1.74

    I’d cut off my the end of my pinkie to get Couturier here if I was MacT

  115. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Big Fly Caveat!

    the PP is terrible. And, the inability to tinker effectively with it is a real, dyed-in-the-wool issue.

    ———–
    BUT,

    we’ve looked at this before and we need to again. The idea that RK was running a good PP is not true and it needs to die.

    Eakins: SF/60: 46.1 (26th); SH%: 11.31 (19th)
    RK: 41.5 (29th);16.86 (2nd)
    Renney: 44.5 (24th); 16.07 (1st)
    Renney: 41.6 (30th); 12.06 (13th)

    Out of the last 4 years Eakins is running the best SF/60 on the PP. This is the most conclusive way to evaluate how good and how repeatable a PP is.

    Renney’s first year was terrible… absolute disaster and was only modestly lucky.

    Renney’s second year was terrible, not quite a disaster and was all-world lucky.

    RK’s year was terrible… absolute disaster and was all-world lucky

    Eakins’ year is terrible, not quite a disaster and he’s all-world unlucky.

    So the Oilers’ coaching staff is All-World. Tell me something I don’t know.

    ;)

  116. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Agreed that measuring results per PP time is better. It would be nice to have a measure of zone entry success on PP (or otherwise, for that matter), as well as zone time per PP time. I think Eakins’ PP is getting the grief due to the peak in SH GA, or at least it’s being magnified by that.

  117. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    Bag of Pucks,

    I agree with this fully. If you can trade Eberle for a strong two way C with some grit and defensive chops (Couturier does fit the bill well),

    5v5 pts/60 this year.

    Eberle plaing with Hall or getting the softs 1.82

    Couturier playing w/ Read against the toughest comp 1.74

    I’d cut off my the end of my pinkie to get Couturier here if I was MacT

    Nah. Cut off the end of Holmgren’s pinkie if he doesn’t “give” you Couturier. That’s the Philadelphia way.

  118. G Money says:

    nycoil,

    I think ROR is more likely to be available than Stastny, and ROR has already demonstrated that he won’t give the Avs a hometown discount.

    ROR is an RFA but his qualifying offer is for $6.5M, so it becomes a question of whether the Avs can keep all four of those guys happy, all of whom are arguably at least top 2C material (and that doesn’t even include Landeskog, who could easily play 2/3C and who they’ll be paying $5+M to play on the wing next year if all their current C stick around).

    It seems the opposite of the Oilers – strong up the middle, weak on the wing.

    If the Avs don’t qualify ROR at $6.5M, he becomes a UFA.

  119. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: This “evidence” you have brought to the discussion is contrary to what my brain tells me is so. This is Monday, and you’re making me think! Bastage!

    Of course you’re right. It’s funny how quickly the mind slips into assuming knowledge without actually checking the facts.

    I know… I just pine for anything to go right most of the time too, even in the past… and even after looking at these numbers it’s hard to imagine an Oiler PP worse at generating shots… and yet, we’ve seen it in the 3 directly preceding years…

    what a bundle of awful we’ve been watching for so long now.

    ———-

    Beyond the shots for and shooting % data that we can all access and think over…

    we need a big brain with a lot of time to tackle the PP over the Summer… hey Dellow!?!

    Someone needs to take Hemsky’s words to heart and figure out what the hell is wrong with the zone entries on the PP.

    He’s right, it’s not just shot generation that’s the problem… it’s getting in the damn zone to start with.

    At 5×5 Dellow seems like he’s on to something with the dump ins and the tip ins… pointing to ET’s work and his own breakdowns of the video evidence…

    Something like that for the PP could advance our knowledge miles.

  120. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: This “evidence” you have brought to the discussion is contrary to what my brain tells me is so. This is Monday, and you’re making me think! Bastage!

    Of course you’re right. It’s funny how quickly the mind slips into assuming knowledge without actually checking the facts.

    Eakins is on record saying he watched tape of the old PP and that it lived and died by the cross crease pass,

    He then mentions that other teams set up to take that pass away, which is why he changed up the PP.

    I have some problems with the way he coaches the PP (not making Yak the feature shooter on PP1 with a RH dishing the puck is first among them), but he’s right.

    I think his set ups are part of the reason why the SH% is low on the PP this year, but his shot volume is certainly better.

    That said, they are 18th in the NHL in SH% on the PP, which is damn close to average.

  121. Woodguy says:

    gcw_rocks,

    I think you can get Shultz on a two year bridge well under $4.0 as well.

  122. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris: Well, if I could convince Don Maloney that Sam Gagner was worth Henrik Samuelsson I’d be on the phone right now! I’d be surprised if either Murray or Maloney would be willing to make a move like that, but if MacTavish could do it, I’d be perfectly alright with it.

    One advantage that happens if the Oilers trade Gagner is that it rips open that 2C spot in so glaring a way that even the Oilers can’t ignore. It forces them to do something about it rather than offer an easy out to say “well, maybe he’ll get better next year” or “we’ll just wait until the right deal comes along”. We’ve been down this road and sometimes it is worth waiting when one is dealing with top-end talent (Eberle and Yakupov, for instance) but in other cases a deal just needs to be made (Paajarvi or Dubnyk trades, as examples).

    Gagner for Samuelsson or Lazar? Sounds just fine to me. Now go take that money and give Legwand, Statsny, and a few others a call. If all else fails, make that big shakeup move to acquire Couturier.

    Sorry, if I wasn’t clear. I don’t think those two are available and certainly not for Gagner (well, you never know, but we can safely assume that’s not going to happen).

    I just meant, we know that the Oilers covet prospects and getting one might be easier than a rostered player… your note on JVR made me think of it. Sometimes players are let go of early, before they’ve reached their potential.

    And a prospect might be more interesting to MacT than a pick…

  123. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy:
    Bag of Pucks,

    I agree with this fully. If you can trade Eberle for a strong two way C with some grit and defensive chops (Couturier does fit the bill well),

    5v5 pts/60 this year.

    Eberle plaing with Hall or getting the softs 1.82

    Couturier playing w/ Read against the toughest comp 1.74

    I’d cut off my the end of my pinkie to get Couturier here if I was MacT

    Couturier in the East, without cherry picking, at ES:

    868:40 min

    8G 14A

    Pts/60 – 1.52
    Team rank – 8th

    Eberle in the West, without cherry picking, at ES:

    961:58 min

    12G 17A

    Pts/60 – 1.81
    Team rank – 4th

    (Interesting side note, Arco ranks 3rd at 1.84 Pts/60)

    Something must be wrong with my math, because I can’t get this:

    190GP 27G 49A 76P
    0.14 G/gm

    to equal this:

    263GP 89G 117A 206P
    0.34 G/gm

  124. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Pts/60 – 1.52

    I’ve got the same as WG above, 1.74

    are you using this year?

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=20&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=PHI&c=0+1+3+5+17+18+19+20

    At any rate, I don’t believe the argument with SC rests on boxcars, but position, usage and upside.

  125. Bar_Qu says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Woodguy,

    One thing I think also bears repeating is the fact the Oilers give up goals when they are on the PP. This is something, I think, is worse than last year. *edit* 11 GA on PP this year, 1 GA last year. That is significant.

    The PP is the problem and it isn’t simply luck. Even if they are generating more shots.

    Really, another thing they could use from Dellow is how he identified how Washington uses their shooter on the PP. Overload the one side, draw the defenders (2 or 3 of the 4) to that side and give space to their triggerman (Yakupov, Hall) to fire it home.

  126. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:

    I just meant, we know that the Oilers covet prospects and getting one might be easier than a rostered player… your note on JVR made me think of it. Sometimes players are let go of early, before they’ve reached their potential.

    So you’re saying we should just give Gagner one more year…

  127. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’ve got the same as WG above, 1.74

    are you using this year?

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=20&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=PHI&c=0+1+3+5+17+18+19+20

    At any rate, I don’t the argument with SC rests on boxcars, but position, usage and upside.

    Weird. I’ll do some investigating to see if I goofed, but it looks right at first glance:

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201314&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=22&pos=forwards&minutes=300&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

  128. Wolfpack says:

    I am really hoping that this summer, maybe at the draft, we see MacT make a trade or two using the Perron trade template.

    St. Louis wanted to keep their blue line intact and they needed to trim some salary in order to do so. So they traded an established player still in his prime, but with some question marks (concussions) for a younger player on a cheaper contract with some pedigree and upside.

    I love following the draft and the Oilers prospects but at the end of the day these players are assets. If MacT can turn Kleftbom+ or Marincin+ into a top-3 type d-man with a few more years experience who can play tougher minutes… that is exactly what I want to see. I am tired of losing. We need some real hockey players on this team and we need them now. I am not adverse to seeing Schultz or Yak moved for the right package either. I am not convinced either of those players are going to live up to expectations.

  129. sliderule says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I don’t know how you can say that shots are what count for the power play.If you don’t score goals and you have a shitty pp you will use the full time of the penalty and get lots of shots

    By nhl stat percentage pp scored we are 21 st overall.with 11 shga

    Under RK we were 8th with I shga

    Under Renney we were 3rd with 8 shga

    The nhl ranks a pp by scoring which is all that really counts

  130. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: Eakins is on record saying he watched tape of the old PP and that it lived and died by the cross crease pass,

    He then mentions that other teams set up to take that pass away, which is why he changed up the PP.

    I have some problems with the way he coaches the PP (not making Yak the feature shooter on PP1 with a RH dishing the puck is first among them), but he’s right.

    I think his set ups are part of the reason why the SH% is low on the PP this year, but his shot volume is certainly better.

    That said, they are 18th in the NHL in SH% on the PP, which is damn close to average.

    If it aint broke….we didn’t start doing terrible on the PP UNTIL he changed it. I admire him being proactive, but until there were 11 shortys on the old system, he probably shouldn’t have changed! In hindsight, he shouldn’t have angered the Hockey Gords by saying he had an unstoppable PP set up either. Like those old martial arts movies when the bad guy says he has an unstoppable kung-fu move shortly before being KOd by the protagonist.

  131. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    RexLibris,

    Isn’t Arcobello an *immediate* upgrade on Gagner that betters the team for the short term?

  132. nycoil says:

    LT had made a very good case for Couturier over Nuge even during his draft year, as I recall. Then Couturier slid too far in the draft, probably on account of his flat year-on-year performance in part due to mono. I watch Philly games from time to time and I do come away impressed with him still. I would love to get him, but I don’t think there is an asset on Edmonton we’d consider moving that Philly would offer up Couturier in return (if I’m Holmgren, unless Hall or Nuge are mentioned, I am not interested. Simmonds brings the same production as Eberle does at this time, plus size and grit, for less salary).

    Brayden Schenn probably moves before Couturier does. Couturier is the perfect 2C for the future behind Giroux to offsest the elite Cs in that division (Crosby, Malkin, Tavares, etc.). Earlier in the year I floated the idea of the 1st this year + another asset for a package around Couturier and Laughton, but I don’t think Philly bites this summer now that they have turned around their season.

    My conclusion is that I think we have to look elsewhere for the 2C solution.

  133. Bag of Pucks says:

    G Money:
    nycoil,

    I think ROR is more likely to be available than Stastny, and ROR has already demonstrated that he won’t give the Avs a hometown discount.

    ROR is an RFA but his qualifying offer is for $6.5M, so it becomes a question of whether the Avs can keep all four of those guys happy, all of whom are arguably at least top 2C material (and that doesn’t even include Landeskog, who could easily play 2/3C and who they’ll be paying $5+M to play on the wing next year if all their current C stick around).

    It seems the opposite of the Oilers – strong up the middle, weak on the wing.

    If the Avs don’t qualify ROR at $6.5M, he becomes a UFA.

    Ryan O’ Reilly would be a FANTASTIC consolation prize.

    It’s like striking out with Farrah and ending up with Jaclyn Smith. You’re not going to kick her out of bed for eating ribs.

  134. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Woodguy,

    One thing I think also bears repeating is the fact the Oilers give up goals when they are on the PP. This is something, I think, is worse than last year. *edit* 11 GA on PP this year, 1 GA last year. That is significant.

    The PP is the problem and it isn’t simply luck. Even if they are generating more shots.

    Really, another thing they could use from Dellow is how he identified how Washington uses their shooter on the PP. Overload the one side, draw the defenders (2 or 3 of the 4) to that side and give space to their triggerman (Yakupov, Hall) to fire it home.

    Don’t get me wrong. The PP is terrible. And, they’ve had a year to tinker and find success and it hasn’t happened.

    I’ve noted this.

    The GA and SA are a real problem this year. I was simply noting we can’t just pine for the days when the goals went in at an incredibly unsustainable rate. The whole damn thing needs an overhaul.

    mind you I suspect a fair bit of the GA is luck related. Toronto for example has also given up a lot of PP goals against, on more shots with better goaltending… so there are teams out there giving up more shots against on the PP then we are:

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/teamstats.php?disp=1&db=201314&sit=5v4&sort=SA60&sortdir=ASC

  135. RexLibris says:

    Well Oiled and Enthusiastic:
    RexLibris,

    Isn’t Arcobello an *immediate* upgrade on Gagner that betters the team for the short term?

    If they had been able to move Gagner at the deadline for more than a slap in the face (Clifford and Martinez for Gagner and Pitlick and retained salary is a slap in the face, in my opinion) then they could have brought Arcobello up and put him in for the remainder of the season.

    Unless Gagner gets horrifically injured and one of Lander, Gordon or Smyth/Hendricks goes down as well, then the only remaining option for Arcobello is to re-sign and return next year, perhaps once Gagner has been moved at the draft.

    Given that we are talking about the Oilers the most likely scenario is that they trade Gagner at the draft, Arcobello walks as a free-agent, management spends all of the summer chasing the whale FA center who chooses another market and the end of August has the team still with a hole in that roster spot. I am being only slightly facetious here.

  136. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: Weird.I’ll do some investigating to see if I goofed, but it looks right at first glance:

    http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?db=201314&sit=5v5&type=individual&teamid=22&pos=forwards&minutes=300&disp=1&sort=HARTp&sortdir=DESC

    You didn’t goof. Problem is that stats.hockeyanalysis.com (a great site!) hasn’t updated their shit apparently. You’ve got SC with only 22 points. he has 26:

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20132014&gameType=2&team=PHI&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=scoringLeaders

    use the BTN numbers
    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=20&f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f4=C+LW+RW&f5=PHI&c=0+1+3+5+17+18+19+20

  137. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris: So you’re saying we should just give Gagner one more year…

    You know what they say about the 8th year being the charm!

  138. Bag of Pucks says:

    Btw, if the acid test for a song arrangement is you can play it on any instrument and it still sounds cool, then ’25 or 6 to 4′ may well be the perfect tune.

  139. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    To secure a UFA top pairing defenseman worth a fig on making any difference, don’t we have to shovel money and term to get it done? If Ference cost you 4 years, what does a legit difference maker cost? And if you do it twice to get two defenseman, haven’t you made a problem when Nurse/Klefbom are ready as soon as 2015 season? Isn’t this the issue we have with Ference already? A contract that becomes a boat anchor? Seems sensible to use your low cost, trending defenseman in Marincin and Klefbom versus blowing a wad on 2 UFA’s. One seems workable. Trade our first pick for that coveted defenseman and don’t get snafued on a boat anchor contract. Trade Gagner for Clarkson and Eberle for a proper 2C and you have substantially upgraded the team without blowing cash or gutting young talent.

    Also, thanks for the earlier clarification on Nurse’s AHL eligibility next year.

  140. sliderule says:

    Bar_Qu:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Woodguy,

    One thing I think also bears repeating is the fact the Oilers give up goals when they are on the PP. This is something, I think, is worse than last year. *edit* 11 GA on PP this year, 1 GA last year. That is significant.

    The PP is the problem and it isn’t simply luck. Even if they are generating more shots.

    Really, another thing they could use from Dellow is how he identified how Washington uses their shooter on the PP. Overload the one side, draw the defenders (2 or 3 of the 4) to that side and give space to their triggerman (Yakupov, Hall) to fire it home.

    Those are good points.

    The players that you assemble on tha pp affect the outcome.?

    The positioning of these players affect the outcome.

    If you are taking shots from point and you have no screening affects the pp.

    Most good power plays have a trigger player they are trying to set up be it Ovy or Weber.

    The oilers power play has none of above.

  141. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    That’s unfortunate, but I just went to various sites to try to get the underlying numbers (ES TOI, ES G, ES A) and can’t get any of them to agree. I settled on going to nhl.com and got this:

    67 GP and 14:15 ES-TOI/gm
    9 ES G and 17 ES A for 26 ES Pts

    14:15 multiplied by 67 gets you 954:45 ES TOI

    (26 Pts / 954:45 TOI) * 60min/gm = 1.64 -or- yet another value for the ES scoring rate!

  142. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Why trade for this gritty 3W when all of Moss, Kulemin and Winnik are available for $$ and term this off-season?

    That seems like a hole they can fill via free agency.

    Because that’s what a Gagner gets you.

    Either that or a 3rd pairing Sutton type Dman.

    He’s not bringing back anything to fill any of the other holes.

  143. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    sliderule:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I don’t know how you can say that shots are what count for the power play.

    What I said was: “This is the most conclusive way to evaluate how good and how repeatable a PP is.”

    This is true.

    On the PP, just as at evens, shot generation is the most reliable way to evaluate which teams display a true talent (i.e., not luck dependent) and therefore which teams are most likely to repeat their success/failure.

    Shooting % is a fickle beast. Best not to spend your money on her, hoping she’ll always favor you. She won’t.

    these two articles are vital reading. add them to your list and send them to MacT/Eakins if you can:

    http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2011/4/9/2100045/what-drives-power-play-success

    http://www.fearthefin.com/2013/7/14/4520832/special-teams-part-ii-what-drives-special-teams-success

  144. denny33 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I completely agree that Byfuglien is the guy to target. However …
    I don’t see how to get it done. He’s only signed for two more years so trading Eberle for him straight up is a non-starter. Gagner isn’t nearly enough. Yakupov way too much.
    Then there is the NTC.
    So while Byfuglien would be #1 on my list of trade targets I don’t see how to get it done. The only way is if he is really out of favour and the Jets wanted to cut salary. Then maybe, just maybe, you could get him for a Klefbom, Lander, third round pick package.
    *****************************************************************************

    I advocated for that last year when Sam Gagner’s stock was much higher…..

    A couple of things:

    1) Since moving to Forward Jets are a much improved team on D – a lot fewer five alarm chances.
    2. Dustin states weekly he is not keen on playing forward.
    3. Rumours abound since Oly’s Dustin is once again pushing north of 280 pounds.

    Paul Maurice is content playing Pardy / Ellerby over having Buff back on D….people need to understand why….

    There seems to be little doubt Winnipeg has had its fill of Buff. No idea what the asking price would be but I would be willing to lay money down Chevy moves him this summer.

  145. Younger Oil says:

    IMO, I think it would be smartest to use Eberle as trade bait to find the NEXT Couturier, as well as pick up a Dman in the process, or fill the hole that opens up on the RW.

    I honestly think Lazar and Couturier will end up being very similar players. I don’t know how untouchable he is considered in Ottawa, but if they don’t re-sign they will have a huge need for a RW who can put up points. Would it be possible to get Lazar and one of Cowen/Stone/Wiercioch for Eberle? If so, I would do that in a heartbeat (and I’m a huge Eberle fan).

    Would also love to see Gagner traded for someone in the Colin Wilson/Brock Nelson family. That, along with signing Winnik, could give us a really, really solid third line.

    There’s also the option of trading down the pick to Phoenix to get Samuelsson and their 1st round pick, where we could draft someone like Alex Tuch or Jake Virtanen.

    In short, there a lot of solid moves that can be made this summer, hopefully MacT can make the most of it and help the team turn the corner.

  146. thejonrmcleod says:

    A possibility for next season:

    Hall-Arcobello-Yak
    Perron-RNH-Eberle
    Hendricks-Gordon-Kulemin (or similar)
    Smyth-Lander-Pitlick

  147. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Btw, if the acid test for a song arrangement is you can play it on any instrument and it still sounds cool, then ’25 or 6 to 4′ may well be the perfect tune.

    Ha!

    I thinking about Chicago the other day…

    You older folks… what did people think of this band at the time? I just can’t wrap my head around who their fanbase was.

  148. Woodguy says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Couturier plays against Crosby, Stamkos, Kessel, etc. etc.

    Saying he plays in the East doesn’t mean a thing when you are comparing QC.

  149. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: Because that’s what a Gagner gets you.

    Either that or a 3rd pairing Sutton type Dman.

    He’s not bringing back anything to fill any of the other holes.

    That’s probably why a pick(s) or prospect might be a better bet.

  150. stevezie says:

    Bag of Pucks: Ryan O’ Reilly would be a FANTASTIC consolation prize.

    I think ROR fits us significantly better than Stastny does, but I think teams in the East would have an edge in procurement. At least we’re not in the division anymore.

  151. Woodguy says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    I think MacT lets Arco walk.

  152. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Why trade for this gritty 3W when all of Moss, Kulemin and Winnik are available for $$ and term this off-season?
    That seems like a hole they can fill via free agency.
    ************************************************************

    There is the rub…..I agree.

    I also agree that Sam’s value is down to a 3 line player….

    Ouch

  153. Bruce McCurdy says:

    So other teams have taken away the cross-crease pass for the high-percentage shot, & Eakins has responded with a new system that has “improved” Oilers all the way from 29th in shots per PP to 26th, & we’re supposed to be impressed? If the other teams are taking something away, they should be leaving something else open. If it’s lower percentage shots, then there should be more of them.

    What I’m seeing more of is odd-man rushes for the other team.

    2013: 48 GP, 34 PPGF, 1 SHGA, +33, = 0.69 G/G
    13-14: 69 GP, 41 PPGF, 11 SHGA, +30, = 0.43 G/G

    That’s a 37% reduction in net output from the powerplay on a per-game basis.

  154. stevezie says:

    Woodguy,

    I think Arco lets Arco walk. (Granted this is only possible because MacT let him go UFA)

  155. Bag of Pucks says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Ha!

    I thinking about Chicago the other day…

    You older folks… what did people think of this band at the time? I just can’t wrap my head around who their fanbase was.

    Very bipolar band. Jazz pop almost prog earlier, then they sold out for the top 40 brass ring with all those schmaltzy ballads with Peter Cetera. Actually, kind of a similar career path to Journey now that I think of it.

    Not a huge fan. Think Boston is the best of the bands named after cities (or Chilliwack lol), but they really had lightning in a bottle with ’25 or 6 to 4′

    You know it has to be a good song when it’s covered by everyone from the Notre Dame marching band to Vince frickin’ Neil and they all come out sounding the better for it.

  156. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Bag of Pucks: Very bipolar band. Jazz pop almost prog earlier, then they sold out for the top 40 brass ring with all those schmaltzy ballads with Peter Cetera. Actually, kind of a similar career path to Journey now that I think of it.

    Not a huge fan. Think Boston is the best of the bands named after cities (or Chilliwack lol), but they really had lightning in a bottle with ’25 or 6 to 4′

    You know it has to be a good song when it’s covered by everyone from the Notre Dame marching band to Vince frickin’ Neil and they all come out sounding the better for it.

    I liked “Chicago Transit Authority” (effectively “Chicago I”) & “Chicago II” a whole lot, “Chicago III” not quite so much, then progressively less as they went more poppy. Odd band in that their first three LP’s were all double albums, & then their fourth was a quadruple! (live). From there it was single albums with lots of schmaltzy ballads, as you put it. They were good at what they did, I just didn’t like the style near so much as earlier stuff like “Ballad** for a Girl for Buchanan”. (**More a medley than a ballad, but that’s what it was called)

  157. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    So other teams have taken away the cross-crease pass for the high-percentage shot, & Eakins has responded with a new system that has “improved” Oilers all the way from 29th in shots per PP to 26th, & we’re supposed to be impressed? If the other teams are taking something away, they should be leaving something else open. If it’s lower percentage shots, then there should be more of them.

    What I’m seeing more of is odd-man rushes for the other team.

    2013: 48 GP, 34 PPGF, 1 SHGA, +33, = 0.69 G/G
    13-14: 69 GP, 41 PPGF, 11 SHGA, +30, = 0.43 G/G

    That’s a 37% reduction in net output from the powerplay on a per-game basis.

    Eakins: SA/60: 9.6 (25th); SV% 84.21 (26th)
    RK: 8.2 (17th); 97.06 (4th)
    Renney: 7.9 (15th); 87.04 (26th)
    Renney: 9.2 (18th); 97.14 (2nd)

    In the shots against none come out well, but Eakins is clearly the worst, by a hair over Renney’s first year.

    What I think we need to pay closer attn. to however is the randomness of SV% here. it’s all over the map.

    I gather that’s related to the kinds of events that lead to shorties. But, luck seems to have a fair hand in this.

  158. sliderule says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Thank you that’s a different perspective.

    The things I see wrong with oiler pp is as follows

    Poor entry’s
    Stagnant player movement
    The 1-3-1 does not suit a inexperienced sophomore Schultz resulting in shorties.
    The coach wants to reward players with pp time therefore doghouse yak gets the dregs.
    They by eye seem to have no setup like Ovy or Weber.

    After reading your articles I can see that shots count just like at es but if you have the wrong mix of players and attack plan those shots will be like setting up me in the slot.

  159. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Always loved CTA’s take on an old Stevie Winwood classic from his Spencer Davis Group days.

  160. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    sliderule:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Thank you that’s a different perspective.

    The things I see wrong with oiler pp is as follows

    Poor entry’s
    Stagnant player movement
    The 1-3-1 does not suit a inexperienced sophomore Schultz resulting in shorties.
    The coach wants to reward players with pp time therefore doghouse yak gets the dregs.
    They by eye seem to have no setuplike Ovy or Weber.

    After reading your articles I can see that shots count just like at es but if you have the wrong mix of players and attack plan those shots will be like setting up me in the slot.

    Your intuition here is the same as mine.

    We can look at the data and say: fuck this is terrible…

    and we can watch the games and say: fuck this is terrible… and maybe this or that is what’s wrong?

    But, until someone actually goes through tape with a working hypothesis… we just know it’s terrible and have a lot of intuitions about what’s wrong.

    As I mentioned above, I think Hemsky had it right: zone entries are fucked on this team. And your point about player movement (with and without the puck) is something I’ve been harping on all year as we were waiting to see Hemsky offloaded… he was literally the only one to move around, try to create openings, etc. seems vital.

  161. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The family had the greatest hits CD.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_IX:_Chicago's_Greatest_Hits

    That was literally the only way I knew them as a kid. The music was so… all over the place… I’ve never been able to successfully picture who their fans are.

  162. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy:
    theres oil in virginia,

    Couturier plays against Crosby, Stamkos, Kessel, etc. etc.

    Saying he plays in the East doesn’t mean a thing when you are comparing QC.

    It was my understanding that it was generally agreed here that scoring comes easier in the Eastern Conference. Bigger bodies in the West, harder travel, etc. We were comparing ES Pts/60, not QC. I’d also like to point out again that, even with the updated Pts/60, Couturier ranks somewhere around 8th/9th on the Flyers, compared to Eberle’s 4th on the Oilers. No doubt, Coururier has defensive chops, but no doubt that Eberle leaves him in the dust offensively.

    I like the idea of adding Couturier, but IMO, the Oilers lose the Eberle for Couturier trade.

    (Sorry for mentioning JJ earlier, I got a little fired up. Been house-confined for three days with wife and child. Aargh!)

  163. theres oil in virginia says:

    Bruce McCurdy: So other teams have taken away the cross-crease pass for the high-percentage shot, & Eakins has responded with a new system that has “improved” Oilers all the way from 29th in shots per PP to 26th, & we’re supposed to be impressed? If the other teams are taking something away, they should be leaving something else open. If it’s lower percentage shots, then there should be more of them.

    I think they don’t move the puck quickly enough (too many touches before a pass), and almost never does the guy at the point take the pass, keep moving in the direction the pass was going, and pass the puck back to the guy who gave it to him. They never change direction, and they allow the defense to clamp down on them, and in-so-doing, they lose the “man advantage”. I guess that’s another way of saying they don’t seem to know how to find the open man.

  164. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    The family had the greatest hits CD.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_IX:_Chicago's_Greatest_Hits

    That was literally the only way I knew them as a kid. The music was so… all over the place… I’ve never been able to successfully picture who their fans are.

    Top 40 in the 1970′s could easily include all of chicago’s styles and not miss a beat. Earth wind and fire did the horns better (Tower of Power too) and Elton John did the pop better, but chicago could deliver a new single every 12 weeks.

  165. judgedrude says:

    stevezie,

    ROR is 6 foot nothing at 200. Q1: Is that another small forward?

    To keep him long term, you may need to offer the Hall contract. Q2: Is that the contract you’d like to offer?

    If the answer is yes to these, we would have a shot. Remember, he has signed in Alberta before.

    As for me, I’m not sold on Q2.

  166. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Top 40 in the 1970′s could easily include all of chicago’s styles and not miss a beat. Earth wind and fire did the horns better (Tower of Power too) and Elton John did the pop better, but chicago could deliver a new single every 12 weeks.

    I guess I always forget about the casual listener that just likes top 40 period.

    I mean Fans though. Fandom typically rallies around a stable (relatively speaking) group identity between band/music/aesthetic and fans.

    There’s a reason Dylan alienated folks when he pulled that Strat out. I’ve seen it myself with the wife… when Iron and Wine expanded his roster and sound and again with Sufjan… fans don’t like it.

    I don’t see a band like Chicago having “fans” in this sense.

  167. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Lowetide: Top 40 in the 1970′s could easily include all of chicago’s styles and not miss a beat. Earth wind and fire did the horns better (Tower of Power too) and Elton John did the pop better, but chicago could deliver a new single every 12 weeks.

    What’d they have, 4 different song writers among them?

  168. RexLibris says:

    Spent one intolerable Sunday morning listening to Manhattan Transfer (I didn’t have veto power over the turntable as yet). That and Mark Almond.

    To be fair, though, I suspect I reciprocated the auditory torture at other times.

  169. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I guess I always forget about the casual listener that just likes top 40 period.

    I mean Fans though. Fandom typically rallies around a stable (relatively speaking) group identity between band/music/aesthetic and fans.

    There’s a reason Dylan alienated folks when he pulled that Strat out. I’ve seen it myself with the wife… when Iron and Wine expanded his roster and sound and again with Sufjan… fans don’t like it.

    I don’t see a band like Chicago having “fans” in this sense.

    Saw Lawrence Gowan in concert years ago at the Thunderdome. This was in the very late twilight of his career and it was a small crowd. I was standing maybe 20 feet from him.

    Rather than do a clear set of greatest hits he went back to his own roots and inspirations for music starting with Mozart and Bach (yes, at the Thunderdome) then moving on to a little Beethoven, and then to the Blues and the Mississippi Delta roots of rock, all on the piano.

    I loved it, it gave a very different perspective on the artist and was a better all around performance than just hearing Strange Animal and Lost Brotherhood singles again.

    But I did wonder about the crowd who came to hear him. Were they disappointed? Enlightened? I don’t remember the reaction.

  170. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris,

    Gowan!

    Christ. Criminal Mind was like my favorite video on “Good Rockin’ Tonite!”

    that and A-Ha!

  171. delooper says:

    Gah! This music discussion is hurting me a little.

    Something interesting from the last couple of years that I like is Dirty Projectors. The Youtube video for “Stillness is the move” gives a good idea of what they’re about. They’re sort of NYC rock, influenced by modern west african R&B.

  172. Lowetide says:

    Bruce McCurdy: What’d they have, 4 different song writers among them?

    Yep. And a couple singers too, although Cetera took over most of the vocals later on. When he left, they got a cracker-jack vocalist to replace him. An incredible run.

  173. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I guess I always forget about the casual listener that just likes top 40 period.

    I mean Fans though. Fandom typically rallies around a stable (relatively speaking) group identity between band/music/aesthetic and fans.

    There’s a reason Dylan alienated folks when he pulled that Strat out. I’ve seen it myself with the wife… when Iron and Wine expanded his roster and sound and again with Sufjan… fans don’t like it.

    I don’t see a band like Chicago having “fans” in this sense.

    I don’t think chicago had that kind of fan, maybe the first album which is and was brilliant. They were kind of there but never a band you’d pursue. I liked some of their songs, i loved Old days. Bought the .45 at the Bay in Saskatoon and played the living hell out of it.

  174. Bank Shot says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Eakins: SA/60: 9.6 (25th); SV% 84.21 (26th)
    RK: 8.2 (17th); 97.06 (4th)
    Renney: 7.9 (15th); 87.04 (26th)
    Renney: 9.2 (18th); 97.14 (2nd)

    In the shots against none come out well, but Eakins is clearly the worst, by a hair over Renney’s first year.

    What I think we need to pay closer attn. to however is the randomness of SV% here. it’s all over the map.

    I gather that’s related to the kinds of events that lead to shorties. But, luck seems to have a fair hand in this.

    I don’t remember there being any lucky shorthanded goals against though. They seem to all be 2 on 1′s and breakaways.

    It’s tough to know without shot quality comparisons.

  175. stevezie says:

    judgedrude,

    Not big, but gritty. A major league hustler. And I’d rather a slight overpay on something we need than go without entirely, so yes to Q2.

  176. delooper says:

    Ducey:
    Now none of this explains the terrible PP…

    I figure that will be one of the last things to be fixed. If I’m stressed from work my sex life suffers. Responsible defence and the powerplay is somehow analogous.

  177. gcw_rocks says:

    Woodguy,
    I think you can get Shultz on a two year bridge well under $4.0 as well.

    That’s what I would try for if I were the Oilers. Something similar to Perry’s last contract, inflation adjusted.

    If that possible, I would push for Markov and Hainsey. make the left Markov, Hainsey, Marincin.

    Then let Petry, Schultz, Ference and hopefully Fayne fight it out for the right side.

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