TWENTY THINGS ABOUT ROMAN HORAK (SORTA)

The Edmonton Oilers have some skill bubbling under in Oklahoma City. We’ve seen Anton Lander and Mark Arcobello, and hope to see more of Tyler Pitlick. One player who might be an effective 6 or 7 or 9 is Roman Horak. A little under the radar despite a mid-season callup, the young forward is having an impact.

TWENTY THINGS ABOUT ROMAN HORAK (SORTA)

  1. He’s younger than Anton Lander.
  2. He was chosen 87 picks later than Lander.
  3. He’s played more NHL games than Lander.
  4. Horak’s scouting report pre-draft: Silky, explosive skater can generate plenty of speed in a couple of steps. Possesses considerable one-on-one ability, toying with opponents at times in Czech junior with amazing dekes. Exudes confidence in the offensive zone and can create his own time and space.
  5. Like Lander, Horak arrived in the NHL far too early and was forced to take a step back in  order to collect himself.
  6. Horak has been traded for Tim Erixon and Ladislav Smid and is only 22.
  7. Shawn Horcoff didn’t play an NHL game until he was 22.
  8. When the Oilers dealt for him, I said “I’ve always liked Horak (honestly) and see him as a superior player to most of the depth players employed currently by the NHL team. If he ends up this season as a 4line forward, no one should be surprised. He’s 22, he can take and make a pass (underrated skill and the Oilers need more of them) and has time to develop into a player. We may never hear of him again, but he could end up helping them.”
  9. Nothing that has happened since changed my mind.
  10. He took a nice step forward in OKC when they moved him to LW.
  11. The Oilers currently employ at least two guys on LW who aren’t as good at hockey.
  12. There have been NHL scouts watching the Barons for some time.
  13. I thought they might be watching Lander or Arcobello.
  14. They might have been watching Horak.
  15. The Oilers need role players, guys who can play a two-way game, don’t cost a lot and chip in 15 goals a year.
  16. Horak’s NHLE this season is 82GP, 14-15-29.
  17. Lander’s NHLE this season is 82GP, 16-25-41.
  18. Arcobello’s NHLE is 82GP, 29-49-78.
  19. Pitlick’s NHLE is 82GP, 8-13-21.
  20. The Oilers have developed Colin Mcdonald, Teemu Hartikainen, Linus Omark, Chris VandeVelde, Magnus Paajarvi in OKC since 2010. None made it as Oilers. Will one of Arcobello, Lander, Pitlick or Horak change things?

Horak’s an interesting player. I hope he sees some NHL time after the deadline. (photo by Rob Ferguson, all rights reserved)

ROMAN HORAK SCOUTING REPORT

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91 Responses to "TWENTY THINGS ABOUT ROMAN HORAK (SORTA)"

  1. gcw_rocks says:

    Before the move to the left wing I thought he was a dog. Now there seems to be some hope. I would love to see the oilers run Horak with Lander and Pitlick but I doubt they would do that to OKC.

  2. Hammers says:

    Horak & Lander both deserve the last 20 games even if the likes of Jones , Smyth & Hemsky don’t get traded . Would also like to see Fedun get more than a couple of games . Face it this is the best time to see what we have .McT needs to trade players or if he can’t trade them send them down so a few guys can come up . This is not about OKL getting into the playoffs it’s about what talent is there for the Oilers

  3. OilLeak says:

    Arcobello with another 2 points today in the Barons win. He’s an NHLer, why can’t the Oilers see that?

    Horak with 2 points as well.

  4. prairieschooner says:

    Arco and Lander seem like a natural fit to stay together if they come up to the big club, but we could always trade them for draft picks instead.
    Seriously though
    Why would any OKC guys be looked at?
    Are they throw ins to sweeten a trade?
    Are they trades for picks guys because MacT wants to move in a different direction?

  5. thejonrmcleod says:

    That NHLE for Arcobello is crazy. It would be interesting if the Oilers would let Horak, Arcobello/Lander, and Pitlick form an all-AHL line in Edmonton.

  6. VanOil says:

    I would have these guys higher up the batting order in the NHL.

    3d Line: Horak-Lander-Arco/Hemsky
    4th Line: Hendricks-Gordon-Smyth/Pitlick Gadzook glaring from the press box.

    Gordon could sub-in the top 6 for Dzone face-offs.

  7. Lowetide says:

    If you missed it, I traded Arcobello today

    http://www.puckrant.com/slapshot/ONE_TRADE_I_WOULD_LIKE_TO_SEE

  8. DBO says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    2 of them should be on our roster right now, if not all 3.

    LT, both Lander and Horak are 22. Lander is only 1 mth older, so not a negative to Lander. Lander plays with more of an edge, both have D awareness. How good would they be with someone like Hemsky.

  9. VanOil says:

    Lowetide:
    If you missed it, I traded Arcobello today

    http://www.puckrant.com/slapshot/ONE_TRADE_I_WOULD_LIKE_TO_SEE

    You well know this is just the type of player the Oilers like to grind to dust in the minors. Arco is an Oil Barron forever.

  10. Ryan says:

    Consensus here was Yakupov over Murray in the draft year.

    Where we wrong? What would you rather have today?

    Yakupov: 56:11-12-23 -29
    Murray: 60: 3-17-20 +3

  11. VanOil says:

    Ryan:
    Consensus here was Yakupov over Murray in the draft year.

    Where we wrong?What would you rather have today?

    Yakupov: 56:11-12-23 -29
    Murray: 60: 3-17-20 +3

    Yakupov. Murray has a sophomore slump on the way. Yak is already on the top line. Murray is few years away from being a top pairing D.

  12. Cameron says:

    From his brief time in Calgary’s system he looked to be a decent depth guy who maxes out as a 3rd liner.

    More of a playmaker than gunner, he’s a decent checker, can win a face-off in his own zone on occasion, and doesn’t need help lacing up his skates or ordering coffee.

    I’d be a bit concerned he’s already being converted to the wing, but hey, that’s where he fits into your lineup I guess.

  13. Lowetide says:

    Cameron:
    From his brief time in Calgary’s system he looked to be a decent depth guy who maxes out as a 3rd liner.

    More of a playmaker than gunner, he’s a decent checker, can win a face-off in his own zone on occasion, and doesn’t need help lacing up his skates or ordering coffee.

    I’d be a bit concerned he’s already being converted to the wing, but hey, that’s where he fits into your lineup I guess.

    That’s exactly what Edmonton needs. A consistent checker who can help shutdown the other guy and chip in on offense. 1-2 LW’s take care of the goals.

  14. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    Rom will love this

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/woodlief/2014/03/02/nhl-draft-red-line-report-defensemen/5952761/

    Indeed!

    Good read.

    Curio: Bennett and Del Colle share a birthday.

    Two random things I’m watching are where lists have Nylander (usually the highest ranked Euro skater, center, tons of skill, but undersized) and what the hell is going on with Nikolaj Ehlers.

    The former is a good bell-weather of narratives: how do scouts treat size and nationality?

    The latter is interesting to me because one scouting service is a huge outlier on him. Hockey Prospect has him at 3

    http://www.hockeyprospect.com/2014-nhl-draft-rankings-february-top-60-nhl-prospects/

    for reference:

    BM: 15
    ISS: 20
    NHLCS: 22 (North Am)
    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9593
    http://www.isshockey.com/iss-top-30/
    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=699869

    that’s a big outlier!

    Red line lists him in the teens and writes this about the Gagner/Kane style deal with Druin:

    -We would like to dispel one myth this month: Folks who take a cursory look at stats and automatically conclude Nikolaj Ehlers is merely riding Jonathan Drouin’s coattails couldn’t be more wrong. While it’s true they have been playing together a bit more of late and are also on Halifax’s No. 1 power-play unit, they are apart most of the time.

    The fact is, both players prefer to carry the puck and control the play. That rarely lends itself to good linemate compatibility. And it’s easy to mistake one for the other if you take a quick glance at the ice. The two forwards have similar size and skating styles, both handle the puck like it’s glued to their stick and usually look to pass before they shoot.

    That said, don’t misinterpret that optical illusion to mean Ehlers is in Drouin’s class. He’s not quite at that elite level, but it’s also reasonable to suggest he’s a poor man’s version, and a pretty safe bet to go in the top 20 in Philadelphia this June.

  15. Backhand says:

    I guess we could be looking at the “bulldog line” you’ve mentioned. Horak – Lander – Pitlick. The thing this team has needed for a long time is some 2nd round picks to become regular NHL players. Some more Stoll’s and Greene’s around here please.

  16. rogue says:

    Lowetide;

    If Hemsky and Belov both went to Pittsburgh, what in your opinion would be an equitable return?

    I would really like to see some of the OKC kids here after the deadline. Even if it is only for a few games to give them a taste and see where their development stands. When is Dillon Simpson free from college?

  17. fifthcartel says:

    James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 1m
    Trade: Blackhawks get a third-round pick and a fifth-round pick from the Panthers for Brandon Pirri.

  18. RexLibris says:

    Back when I wrote my flames rebuild series I had slotted Horak in as a depth C/W with a possible 3rd line ceiling. Still like this kid for this team, more than Clifford.

    Kildare had another nice game today. Really want this young man to become an Oiler.

  19. Jasmine says:

    OilLeak,

    Size. Oilers fans constantly complain about lack of size. Now Oilers fans want a midget that’s only 5’8″ and 166 pounds. Oilers need size and not more undersized players like Arco.

  20. godot10 says:

    OilLeak:
    Arcobello with another 2 points today in the Barons win. He’s an NHLer, why can’t the Oilers see that?

    MacT is the smartest guy in the room. You know, the guy who was supposed to say, “do you really want to do that?”

  21. RexLibris says:

    rogue:
    Lowetide;

    If Hemsky and Belov both went to Pittsburgh, what in your opinion would be an equitable return?

    I would really like to see some of the OKC kids here after the deadline. Even if it is only for a few games to give them a taste and see where their development stands. When is Dillon Simpson free from college?

    How about a 1st and Jarry? Perhaps I’m dreaming.

  22. nycoil says:

    Just back from surf trip in Nicaragua. Lots of fellow Canadians down there at the hostels to watch the gold medal game with. Now back to the chore of watching Oilers’ hockey! Hurray!

    Not sure if someone has already posted this article, but about Hemsky…

    http://o.canada.com/sports/macdonald-hemsky-have-reputations-that-should-be-reverse-of-what-they-are/

  23. coolwasabi says:

    > Arcobello’s NHLE is 82GP, 29-49-78.

    As Allan Mitchell would say, Lordy!

  24. The Great One says:

    fifthcartel:
    James Mirtle ‏@mirtle1m
    Trade: Blackhawks get a third-round pick and a fifth-round pick from the Panthers for Brandon Pirri.

    woah, buying very low on Pirri.

    Florida’s centre depth (much reviled around here) is now, in no particular order:

    Barkov (18)

    Bjugstad (21)

    Pirri (22)

    Shore (23)

    Matthias (26)

    Goc (30)

    Winchester (30)

    “Pirri, 22, has played in 35 NHL contests, all with Chicago (2011-2014) scoring six goals with seven assists and six PIM. The Toronto, Ontario, native has played in 26 games with Rockford this season averaging a point-per-game, registering 26 points (11-15-26).

    Last season, Pirri won the John B. Sollenberger Trophy as the AHL’s leading scorer, recording 75 points (22-53-75) in 76 games played with Rockford. He also was named MVP of the 2014 AHL All-Star game, recording two goals and an assist.

    For his career in the AHL, Pirri has played in 212 games, all with Rockford (2010-2014), scoring 57 goals with 117 assists.

    Pirri was drafted by Chicago in the second round (29th overall) in the 2009 NHL Entry Draft.

  25. The Great One says:

    Jasmine:
    OilLeak,

    Size. Oilers fans constantly complain about lack of size. Now Oilers fans want a midget that’s only 5’8″ and 166 pounds. Oilers need size and not more undersized players like Arco.

    They’re running all the big guys out of town.

    It’s all Slats fault.

  26. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Release my comment!

  27. nycoil says:

    The Great One: Florida’s centre depth (much reviled around here) is now, in no particular order:

    Barkov (18)

    Bjugstad (21)

    Pirri(22)

    Shore (23)

    Matthias (26)

    Goc (30)

    Winchester (30)

    “Pirri, 22, has played in 35 NHL contests, all with Chicago (2011-2014) scoring six goals with seven assists and six PIM. The Toronto, Ontario, native has played in 26 games with Rockford this season averaging a point-per-game, registering 26 points (11-15-26).

    Last season, Pirri won the John B. Sollenberger Trophy as the AHL’s leading scorer, recording 75 points (22-53-75) in 76 games played with Rockford. He also was named MVP of the 2014 AHL All-Star game, recording two goals and an assist.

    For his career in the AHL, Pirri has played in 212 games, all with Rockford (2010-2014), scoring 57 goals with 117 assists.

    Pirri was drafted by Chicago in the second round (29th overall) in the 2009 NHL Entry Draft.

    Renaud Lavoie saying Pirri may have asked for a trade, but I am surprised no team could beat that offer, even presuming Chicago wanted to trade him to the East.

  28. The Great One says:

    nycoil: Renaud Lavoie saying Pirri may have asked for a trade, but I am surprised no team could beat that offer, even presuming Chicago wanted to trade him to the East.

    You would think so.

    Remember, though, that Tallon still has a connection with the Hawks.

    I’m not sure why Chicago would give up on a young player who has the potential to be a #2C for them.

    Must be something we don’t know.

  29. cabbiesmacker says:

    Lowetide:
    Rom will love this

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/woodlief/2014/03/02/nhl-draft-red-line-report-defensemen/5952761/

    Of all the predraft rankings I’ve never put a lot of stock in Woodlief’s Red Line report. His list is an awful lot different than McKenzie’s and imo a lot less likely.

    Perlini will go higher than some he’s showing and the only way Draisaitl goes top 2 is if the Oilers take him.

  30. cabbiesmacker says:

    The Great One:

    I’m not sure why Chicago would give up on a young player who has the potential to be a #2C for them.

    Must be something we don’t know.

    That Bowman is only right 50% of the time? i.e. Crawford and Bickell’s contracts.

    Followed Pirri from the day he was drafted in 2009. BAD TRADE but Bowman didn’t draft him. Tallon did.

  31. nycoil says:

    The Great One,

    Yup. Like the move by Tallon, of course. Was just thinking that other Eastern teams could have beaten a 3rd rounder and a late pick two years from now.

    As for the more to it, as I mentioned above, Lavoie is saying on his Twitter account Pirri asked for an out. As for 2C, Hawks still have Teravainen, I guess.

    Still, a little surprising in terms of how little was required to obtain him. No way Edmonton could have been involved on this one, being a western team with potential down the line a few years (albeit looking unlikely currently) to challenge Chicago.

  32. jfry says:

    will be interesting to see what he turns around and flips those picks for. a fifth and a third, based on LT’s scjedule gets you a dman and ryan smyth. maybe that’s decent value for “lander” at the deadline, if you’re a contender.

    The Great One,

  33. godot10 says:

    The Great One: You would think so.

    I’m not sure why Chicago would give up on a young player who has the potential to be a #2C for them.

    Must be something we don’t know.

    He has to clear waivers next year.

  34. Henry says:

    The Great One: You would think so.

    Remember, though, that Tallon still has a connection with the Hawks.

    I’m not sure why Chicago would give up on a young player who has the potential to be a #2C for them.

    Must be something we don’t know.

    nycoil,

    Perhaps an extension of the Versteeg trade?

  35. The Great One says:

    jfry:
    will be interesting to see what he turns around and flips those picks for. a fifth and a third, based on LT’s scjedule gets you a dman and ryan smyth.maybe that’s decent value for “lander” at the deadline, if you’re a contender.

    The Great One,

    Yeah, it’s possible Bowman is working on a bigger deal and needed some extra picks.

    Can’t imagine what though.

  36. The Great One says:

    Henry: nycoil,

    Perhaps an extension of the Versteeg trade?

    BINGO!

    Tallon did Bowman a favour by holding some of Versteeg’s cap hit.

    $2.2M/year for 3 years.

  37. jfry says:

    OT, but it’s a slowish thread. do we know where some of these older guys are with returning next year? we know teemu is gone. how about jagr? smyth? who are the retirees this season?

  38. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Damnit… I’ll do it myself:

    Lowetide:
    Rom will love this

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/woodlief/2014/03/02/nhl-draft-red-line-report-defensemen/5952761/

    Indeed!

    Good read.

    Curio: Bennett and Del Colle share a birthday.

    Two random things I’m watching are where lists have Nylander (usually the highest ranked Euro skater, center, tons of skill, but undersized) and what the hell is going on with Nikolaj Ehlers.

    The former is a good bell-weather of narratives: how do scouts treat size and nationality?

    The latter is interesting to me because one scouting service is a huge outlier on him. Hockey Prospect has him at 3

    http://www.hockeyprospect.com/2014-nhl-draft-rankings-february-top-60-nhl-prospects/

    for reference:

    BM: 15
    ISS: 20
    NHLCS: 22 (North Am)

    that’s a big outlier!

    Red line lists him in the teens and writes this about the Gagner/Kane style deal with Druin:

    -We would like to dispel one myth this month: Folks who take a cursory look at stats and automatically conclude Nikolaj Ehlers is merely riding Jonathan Drouin’s coattails couldn’t be more wrong. While it’s true they have been playing together a bit more of late and are also on Halifax’s No. 1 power-play unit, they are apart most of the time.

    The fact is, both players prefer to carry the puck and control the play. That rarely lends itself to good linemate compatibility. And it’s easy to mistake one for the other if you take a quick glance at the ice. The two forwards have similar size and skating styles, both handle the puck like it’s glued to their stick and usually look to pass before they shoot.

    That said, don’t misinterpret that optical illusion to mean Ehlers is in Drouin’s class. He’s not quite at that elite level, but it’s also reasonable to suggest he’s a poor man’s version, and a pretty safe bet to go in the top 20 in Philadelphia this June.

  39. The Great One says:

    jfry:
    OT, but it’s a slowish thread.do we know where some of these older guys are with returning next year? we know teemu is gone.how about jagr? smyth? who are the retirees this season?

    Here’s a list of pending UFA’s:

    http://www.capgeek.com/ufa-finder/

    On that list, I would imagine these are the potential retirees:

    Jagr

    Iginla

    Alfredsson

    Zidlicky

    Gionta

    Heatley

    Boyle

    Saku Koivu

    Whitney

    Timonen

    Smyth

    Bertuzzi

    Handzus

    Salo

    Corvo

    Cleary

    Dvorak

    Halpern

    Shawn Thornton

  40. gr8one says:

    fifthcartel,

    My first inclination when I saw this was “why the hell didn’t we get in on that.”…but upon further review he doesn’t seem to be much different than Lander and/or Horak. Similar sizes, skillsets, age etc. I hope if we start making trades we aim higher.

    Speaking of the Hawks though, I think I saw somewhere recently that they might be looking to move Bickell whom they overpaid after his strong playoff.

    Yes he’s overpaid but still a pretty good hockey player that has size, grit and some skill, would look awfully good as our 3 LW and could move up if needed. His age at 27 fits well with the cluster and has a ring. I wonder if Hemsky would interest them if they are worried about Bickell’s contract…it gets him off the books yet wouldn’t be a downgrade on their skill level this season.

    I’d much rather see a return like that for Hemmer than another damn pick.

  41. Ryan says:

    The Great One: Florida’s centre depth (much reviled around here) is now, in no particular order:

    Barkov (18)

    Bjugstad (21)

    Pirri(22)

    Shore (23)

    Matthias (26)

    Goc (30)

    Winchester (30)

    “Pirri, 22, has played in 35 NHL contests, all with Chicago (2011-2014) scoring six goals with seven assists and six PIM. The Toronto, Ontario, native has played in 26 games with Rockford this season averaging a point-per-game, registering 26 points (11-15-26).

    Last season, Pirri won the John B. Sollenberger Trophy as the AHL’s leading scorer, recording 75 points (22-53-75) in 76 games played with Rockford. He also was named MVP of the 2014 AHL All-Star game, recording two goals and an assist.

    For his career in the AHL, Pirri has played in 212 games, all with Rockford (2010-2014), scoring 57 goals with 117 assists.

    Pirri was drafted by Chicago in the second round (29th overall) in the 2009 NHL Entry Draft.

    59th overall.

  42. The Great One says:

    Ryan: 59th overall.

    Cut and paste.

    But he was 29th in the second round.

  43. Ryan says:

    The Great One,

    When I look at that list of free agents, it makes me want to take a Prozac.

  44. The Great One says:

    gr8one:
    fifthcartel,

    My first inclination when I saw this was “why the hell didn’t we get in on that.”…but upon further review he doesn’t seem to be much different than Lander and/or Horak. Similar sizes, skillsets, age etc. I hope if we start making trades we aim higher.

    Speaking of the Hawks though, I think I saw somewhere recently that they might be looking to move Bickell whom they overpaid after his strong playoff.

    Yes he’s overpaid but still a pretty good hockey player that has size, grit and some skill, would look awfully good as our 3 LW and could move up if needed. His age at 27 fits well with the cluster and has a ring. I wonder if Hemsky would interest them if they are worried about Bickell’s contract…it gets him off the books yet wouldn’t be a downgrade on their skill level this season.

    I’d much rather see a return like that for Hemmer than another damn pick.

    2012/13 AHL:

    Pirri – 76GP 22G 53A 75P

    Lander – 47GP 9G 11A 20P

    Horak – 59GP 16G 14A 30P

  45. The Great One says:

    Ryan:
    The Great One,

    When I look at that list of free agents, it makes me want to take a Prozac.

    Yeah, when you consider almost all of the good ones will be re-signed by their current teams, it’s pretty slim pickings.

  46. Ryan says:

    The Great One: Yeah, when you consider almost all of the good ones will be re-signed by their current teams, it’s pretty slim pickings.

    Looking at that list, I can’t believe Mact let grabovski sail thru waivers.

    He could have traded a Gagner while he still had some value while upgrading the position. Iirc we were discussing the very thing at this blog at the time.

  47. The Great One says:

    Paajarvi with a goal!.

    Now 9 points in 39 games.

  48. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Whenever I got excited about Lander I remembered that every other team has at least one prospect like him. The Calgary Flames and Roman Horak was my go to example.

    Now we have both.

  49. gr8one says:

    The Great One: 2012/13 AHL:

    Pirri – 76GP 22G 53A 75P

    Lander – 47GP 9G 11A 20P

    Horak– 59GP 16G 14A 30P

    Taking a snippet of a picture to illustrate a point is bad form.

    If you take into consideration Horak and Lander’s poor handling by their respective organizations that held back their development one could easily cherry pick this years .ppg stats to show another piece of the picture.

    Lander 1.1

    Horak 0.722

    Pirri 1.0

    Which changes the big picture a little.

    Anyways, I’m not saying Pirri isn’t a better prospect than Lander or Horak, but I don’t think there’s that big of a difference, especially if you factor in range of skills which Lander seems to have way more defensive savvy and is showing offense in the range of Pirri this season, so I think an argument could be made that Lander might even have surpassed Pirri since he brings more than just offense to the table.

    We currently have 3 small centers in the AHL that are in the range of Pirri offensively, and in Arcobello’s case his offense shows way better, so, I’m not sure why the Oilers would target a player that isn’t an overwhelming upgrade on any one of them when we have a plethora of other areas of needs that need to be addressed.

  50. spoiler says:

    Sekera with the 2014 Goal of the Year tonight. The Canes looked overwhelmed otherwise, but that was a helluva goal.

  51. The Great One says:

    gr8one: Taking a snippet of a picture to illustrate a point is bad form.

    If you take into consideration Horak and Lander’s poor handling by their respective organizations that held back their development one could easily cherry pick this years .ppg stats to show another piece of the picture.

    Lander 1.1

    Horak0.722

    Pirri1.0

    Which changes the big picture a little.

    Anyways, I’m not saying Pirri isn’t a better prospect than Lander or Horak, but I don’t think there’s that big of a difference, especially if you factor in range of skills which Lander seems to have way more defensive savvy and is showing offense in the range of Pirri this season, so I think an argument could be made that Lander might even have surpassed Pirri since he brings more than just offense to the table.

    We currently have 3 small centers in the AHL that are in the range of Pirri offensively, and in Arcobello’s case his offense shows way better, so, I’m not sure why the Oilers would target a player that isn’t an overwhelming upgrade on any one of them when we have a plethora of other areas of needs that need to be addressed.

    It appears one of us took a “snippet” to further a narrative.

    It wasn’t me.

    The last full AHL season is likely the best we have to make an assessment.

    Suggesting Lander and Horak were somehow “mishandled” by their organizations is nothing more than giving them a crutch. (since both are now Oiler property).

    Perhaps Pirri was also “mishandled” since he requested a trade.

    Lander is having a nice season but hasn’t been able to piss a drop in the NHL.

    Pirri: 35GP 11G 15A 36P

    Lander; 79GP 2G 5A 7P

    Based on the above, it would appear that Pirri is the one who hasn’t had the opportunity but, when given a peek, has blown Lander away.

    None of the 3 AHL centres you are touting are in Pirri’s area code although I would think Arcobello with 18P in 42 NHL GP would be a much better bet than Lander.

    Some players just cannot make the jump from the AHL to the NHL and it appears, at the moment, that Lander is one of them.

    Pirri is already past that hurdle.

  52. cabbiesmacker says:

    gr8one: Taking a snippet of a picture to illustrate a point is bad form.

    The best snippet is:

    Lander 79 NHL games, 7 points

    Pirri 35 NHL games, 13 points

    I like Lander and really hope the kid gets a fair shake. I think theres an NHL player in there.

  53. spoiler says:

    The Great One: Pirri: 35GP 11G 15A 36P

    Pirri has 13 points in 35 NHL games. 6-7-13.

    So what hurdle has he cleared?

  54. The Great One says:

    spoiler: Pirri has 13 points in 35 NHL games.6-7-13.

    So what hurdle has he cleared?

    Scoring at 4 times the rate that Lander is in the NHL?

    Scoring at 3 times the rate of Lander in the AHL?

    As stated, Lander is having a very nice season in the AHL but Pirri exceeded his numbers LAST season.

    If Lander can keep producing in the AHL at his current rate that shows a lot of promise but, if he’s recalled to the NHL and does another face plant (7P in 79GP) I would think the writing is on the wall.

  55. Bank Shot says:

    There’s been some talk about the Chicago’s of that NHL having 4th lines filled with good young players. Edmonton’s 4th line under thag model is Horak-Lander-Pitlick. Anyone think that line holds there own at the nhl level? I don’t.

    These guys really look like tweeners. If I am MacT I am filling 12-13 forward roster spots rather then leaving a space free for any of these kids.

  56. gvblackhawk says:

    The Great One: Scoring at 4 times the rate that Lander is in the NHL?

    Scoring at 3 times the rate of Lander in the AHL?

    As stated, Lander is having a very nice season in the AHL but Pirri exceeded his numbers LAST season.

    If Lander can keep producing in the AHL at his current rate that shows a lot of promise but, if he’s recalled to the NHL and does another face plant (7P in 79GP) I would think the writing is on the wall.

    That is fair, but he should be given decent line mates to prove his ability before pen meets wall.

  57. The Great One says:

    gvblackhawk: That is fair, but he should be given decent line mates to prove his ability before pen meets wall.

    Sure.

    I would call him up for the final 20 games and see what he’s got.

    If he can’t translate it to the NHL playing on a 3rd line, he’s likely not worth another contract.

  58. The Great One says:

    Bank Shot:
    There’s been some talk about the Chicago’s of that NHL having 4th lines filled with good young players. Edmonton’s 4th line under thag model is Horak-Lander-Pitlick.Anyone think that line holds there own at the nhl level?I don’t.

    These guys really look like tweeners. If I am MacT I am filling 12-13 forward roster spots rather then leaving a space free for any of these kids.

    This.

  59. hoser313 says:

    cabbiesmacker: The best snippet is:

    Lander 79 NHL games, 7 points

    Pirri 35 NHL games, 13 points

    I like Lander and really hope the kid gets a fair shake. I think theres an NHL player in there.

    Anyone have TOI for this comparison?

  60. Melman says:

    So if everyone agrees that the Oilers need actual NHL players more than prospects and this year’s draft is supposed to be week:

    1) does it make more sense to stand pat with the 1st and 4+ round picks we have and when shipping out the UFA vets for picks ask for 2015 picks?
    2) can you get a little more for a player ie. a 2nd round vs. a 3rd if you defer the pick for a year? Will GMs pay a little more if the cost isn’t right in front of them?

  61. G Money says:

    Yeesh, a lot of time spent arguing the merits of Pirri, Lander, and Horak, not one of whom has yet proven they are ready for NHL duty. All of them could end up there, or none of them.

    You know which “AHL” prospect *has* proven he can score at the NHL level? Arcobello.

  62. TheOtherJohn says:

    hoser313: Anyone have TOI for this comparison?

    Yeah, NHL.com

  63. spoiler says:

    The Great One: Scoring at 4 times the rate that Lander is in the NHL?

    Lander isn’t exactly what I would call a hurdle. He has some nice arrows right now, but hasyet to prove himself at the NHL level, same as Pirri has yet.

    This from Matheson today:

    A longtime NHL pro scout after watching Oklahoma City Barons centre Anton Lander, who has 44 points in 39 games. “He can play up here, but I worry about his first two or three steps. His skating has to get better,” said the scout. “I liked (Oscar) Klefbom, though. It’s the best I’ve seen him play this season.”

  64. The Great One says:

    hoser313: Anyone have TOI for this comparison?

    This season:

    Pirri – 12:15 TOI/G

    Lander – 10:09 TOI/G

    Last season:

    Pirri – 17:55 (only played 1 NHL game)

    Lander 11:01 TOI/G

    2010/11

    Pirri – 13;31 TOI/G (only played 5 NHL games.)

    Lander – 10:36 TOI/G

    Total NHL TOI over the past 3 seasons:

    Pirri : 427.98

    Lander: 836.94

  65. Hammers says:

    cabbiesmacker: The best snippet is:

    Lander 79 NHL games, 7 points

    Pirri 35 NHL games, 13 points

    I like Lander and really hope the kid gets a fair shake. I think theres an NHL player in there.

    Rreally . You need to know what line and responsabilty each had and when & how the coach used them and that’s why now is the time to give him & Horak a bunch of games .

  66. The Great One says:

    G Money:
    Yeesh, a lot of time spent arguing the merits of Pirri, Lander, and Horak, not one of whom has yet proven they are ready for NHL duty.All of them could end up there, or none of them.

    You know which “AHL” prospect *has* proven he can score at the NHL level?Arcobello.

    Yes.

  67. Melman says:

    Does this open up a trade for a C from FLA?

  68. gr8one says:

    The Great One: It appears one of us took a “snippet” to further a narrative.

    It wasn’t me.

    The last full AHL season is likely the best we have to make an assessment.

    Suggesting Lander and Horak were somehow “mishandled” by their organizations is nothing more than giving them a crutch. (since both are now Oiler property).

    Perhaps Pirri was also “mishandled” since he requested a trade.

    Lander is having a nice season but hasn’t been able to piss a drop in the NHL.

    Pirri:35GP 11G 15A 36P

    Lander; 79GP 2G 5A 7P

    Based on the above, it would appear that Pirri is the one who hasn’t had the opportunity but, when given a peek, has blown Lander away.

    None of the 3 AHL centres you are touting are in Pirri’s area code although I wouldthink Arcobello with 18P in 42 NHL GP would be a much better bet than Lander.

    Some players just cannot make the jump from the AHL to the NHL and it appears, at the moment, that Lander is one of them.

    Pirri is already past that hurdle.

    Wow, that’s just terrible logic.

    The first part doesn’t even really make sense.

    The part about “The last full AHL season is likely the best we have to make an assessment.” is actually just a ridiculous statement. There are so many factors involved in developing young players and they NEVER develop in a straight line. And that’s not even factoring quality of team, teammates, etc., not to mention moving to a new country, learning new languages, different sized rinks, playing styles, etc, etc, etc,. So to cherry pick stats from past seasons to without factoring in all of the variables is just dumb.

    I’m not the only one to “suggest” these players were “mishandled” either, it’s pretty much a general consensus around these parts that both players were rushed to the show before they were ready and that it hampered their development. If you don’t believe me, scroll up to the author of this blog’s point #5.

    As far as opportunity goes, your statement on that actually helps to illustrate my point that Lander/Horak were in fact mishandled since the vast majority of Pirri’s NHL games were not until this season after three FULL NHL seasons and very brief cups of coffee in the final two, and then easing his way into the NHL this season and put in a opportunity to succeed with good players on a great team.

    That’s how prospect trajectories are supposed to go, and if you or anyone else think that Horak or Lander were handled in any way resembling proper than you’re quite frankly a fool. So no, “based on the above” it would not appear anything since you’re comparing apples to orangutans in an attempt to frame your issue with something resembling brains but falling short.

    On the point of me “touting” players…well, two things. I don’t think you know what “tout” means,or, you lack comprehension skills because the only one touting anything is you touting Pirri. But that’s where your comprehension skills must be lacking because I clearly said “I’m not saying Pirri isn’t a better prospect than Lander or Horak”.

    You’re last comment is actually hilarious thinking that 36 NHL games played with a stacked team like the defending stanley cup champions and playing with the likes of Toews, Kane, Sharp and Hossa means a player has “passed* that hurdle” is just delusionary.

    Oh yeah, and the fact that you are stating as fact that Pirri asked for a trade based on speculation from one source that is barely known is beyond funny, and then in turn try to turn that into some kind of evidence that he was also mishandled by the Hawks. You’re funny.

    I’ll reiterate one last time for the challenged reading this, I’m not saying Pirri isn’t a better prospect than what we have, in fact, I’d say that he’s a pretty good prospect, but the fact that a very good organization just flushed him for magic beans doesn’t really give me confidence in his future as a high end prospect.

    Lastly…dude, seriously, get your facts straight before you start going on a rant.

    I don’t know where you get your numbers from but both The Hockey News and NHL.com state very clearly that Brandon Pirri’s combined NHL stats are actually

    Pirri:35GP 6G 7A 13P

    not the 35GP 11G 15A 36P that you claimed. LOL!
    This.is.hilarious.

    http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?7498

    If you follow that link you can see what his true NHL stats are, as well, if you click on the “player news” tab and read down I think that probably paints a truer picture of whether Pirri actually asked for a trade…or if he did it was only because he’d grown weary of the rumors and realization the club may have lost faith in him.

    In the future you might want to think before trying to make yourself look smart because if you research like you did here it’s likely to backfire on you again.

    Anyway, I’ve spent enough time responding to this inane argument and will not be lowering myself anymore so if you intend on replying with another ridiculous response don’t expect any further dialogue from me, I won’t allow myself to come down to your level again.

  69. cabbiesmacker says:

    Hammers: Rreally . You need to know what line and responsabilty eachhad and when & how the coach used them and that’s why now is the time to give him & Horak a bunch of games .

    And I do. Pirri had the advantage for linemates, had more PP time and same as Lander got his points at even strength. He didn’t do anything with his PP time really.

    Lander saw lots of the PK. Pirri nothing.

    Last year and maybe at the start of this year Pirri had the edge as far as being more NHL ready. The way Lander has performed in the A this year says he’s made big strides.

    Doubtful that the Oilers would receive anything similar if a trade went down but that’s taking into account the year Pirri had in the A and maybe what he showed at RPI. Tallon obviously likes the kid.

    Hawks look like they’re going to bank on the Finn to carry the second line next year.

  70. gr8one says:

    G Money:
    Yeesh, a lot of time spent arguing the merits of Pirri, Lander, and Horak, not one of whom has yet proven they are ready for NHL duty.All of them could end up there, or none of them.

    You know which “AHL” prospect *has* proven he can score at the NHL level?Arcobello.

    Yes, this…exactly. Thank you.

    Nice to see someone “get it” and not try to create an argument by twisting reality and making up facts/numbers to further their agenda.

    That was actually my original point, and rather than expend assets trying to obtain a player like that I’d rather see those assets go to an area of greater need, not more of the same/similar to what we already have.

  71. G Money says:

    The Grate One: Yes.

    Dammit, I get worried when you agree with me, it makes me think I’m losing my mojo!

    gr8one: Yes, this…exactly. Thank you.

    Thanks, I now feel balanced in terms of agreements from Gr8/Grate ones! :-)

  72. gr8one says:

    G Money: Dammit, I get worried when you agree with me, it makes me think I’m losing my mojo!

    Thanks, I now feel balanced in terms of agreements from Gr8/Grate ones!

    lol

  73. jp says:

    The Great One:

    Pirri is already past that hurdle.

    There’s also this.

    Pirri’s rank among Blackhawks forwards with >20GP (14 of them):
    Quality of Competition: 2nd easiest
    Corsi Relative: 11th (-11.1)
    On Ice Shooting %: 1st
    On Ice Save%: 1st
    PDO: 1st (1044)
    Offensive Zone Starts: 1st (72%)

    Not sure that he’s a clear cut big leaguer yet.

  74. spoiler says:

    spoiler: A longtime NHL pro scout after watching Oklahoma City Barons centre Anton Lander, who has 44 points in 39 games. “He can play up here, but I worry about his first two or three steps. His skating has to get better,” said the scout. “I liked (Oscar) Klefbom, though. It’s the best I’ve seen him play this season.”

    This makes me think that Lander is Marty Reasoner with a little more defense and a little more strength and physicality.

    This also makes me think that moving Nultz is as much about making space for Klefbom as it is about a draft pick. There’s no harm in giving him some reps in a lost season. Let him learn the traits of the players around the league, and get comfortable with the time and space and speed. If he can play as smart and simple as Marincin does in his own end, he will be a step forward. Having those two with NHL experience under their belt going into next season is one of the thin silver foil linings of this season.

  75. rickithebear says:

    The Great One: Florida’s centre depth (much reviled around here) is now,

    Bjugstad (21) 14 EVG .255 EVG/gm
    Winchester (30) 8 EVG .211 EVG/gm
    Goc (30) 11 EVG .18 EVG/gm
    Pirri (22) 28 Gm 5 EVG .179 EVG/gm
    Matthias (26) 9 EVG .153 EVG/gm
    Shore (23) 20 GM 3 EVG .15 EVG/gm
    Barkov (18) 5 EVG .094 EVG/gm

  76. Lowetide says:

    spoiler: This makes me think that Lander is Marty Reasoner with a little more defense and a little more strength andphysicality.

    This also makes me think that moving Nultz is as much about making space for Klefbom as it is about a draft pick.There’s no harm in giving him some reps in a lost season.Let him learn the traits of the players around the league, and get comfortable with the time and space and speed.If he can play as smart and simple as Marincin does in his own end, he will be a step forward.Having those two with NHL experience under their belt going into next season is one of the thin silver foil linings of this season.

    The hope is MacT sees some of himself in Lander.

  77. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: Matty has 83 heading to Phoenix

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/03/02/short-shifts-4/

    Phoenix misses Whitney, and there’s no way Dallas is trading him, so it’s not a bad bet from that view

    I think ideally though, that they’d rather find a softer landing for him: NYR, Pitt, Detroit, a Cali team… somewhere with a better shot at making waves. But if the Yotes are the only team that will ante up a second…

    I wonder if there’s any chance he could get traded for Callahan? I think MacT would back up the Brinks for Callahan, since he did for Clarkson.

  78. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: The hope is MacT sees some of himself in Lander.

    There is some tavish in the lad, but is there enough? He’s going to get another opportunity I think, before the final decision is made on him. Especially if the Oil can find a taker for Jones and moreso if Smytty has decided he wants a Cup run.

  79. spoiler says:

    This team could really use a summer that sees something like a Stastny signing and a Byfuglien trade-for. Then find a quality 3rd liner and re-hire Smytty. Sign Scrivens. Pray Arco and Lander and Klefbom can make the step. Hope Hall matures a bit, and Nuge adds some strength and Yak can keep up the smart two way play. Contend.

  80. VanOil says:

    Lowetide:
    Matty has 83 heading to Phoenix

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/03/02/short-shifts-4/

    Bless his cotton socks. Dr. David Reid mentioned in Matty’s piece used to be my doctor 24 years ago. He was the top of his field and a very old man then, to my eyes. I hope he golf’s more than works in the desert now. If this comment falls a foul of the LT justly right, no personal comments policy, I understand. He was/is a great surgeon and I was lucky to have him. But he is old, not that there is anything wrong with that.

    p.s. I want to keep Hemsky but if he is cursed to go to Phoenix I want Henrik Samuelsson back.

  81. book¡je says:

    VanOil: Bless his cotton socks. Dr. David Reid mentioned in Matty’s piece used to be my doctor 24 years ago. He was the top of his field and a very old man then, to my eyes. I hope he golf’s more than works in the desert now. If this comment falls a foul of the LT justly right, no personal comments policy, I understand. He was/is a great surgeon and I was lucky to have him. But he is old, not that there is anything wrong with that.

    p.s. I want to keep Hemsky but if he is cursed to go to Phoenix I want Henrik Samuelsson back.

    I actually study rules for a living and after a deep and intricate analysis of LT’s site, I have determined that there is only one rule: “Don’t be an asshole”.

    I think your story is the type of thing that makes this blog a great place

  82. auzy11 says:

    I can not believe that Eakins has a job,trying to teach a team the trap,what an idiot….go get nolan or anybody,i am sure there are people standing on jasper Ave that could do a better job than this idiot

  83. auzy11 says:

    Am i the only one who sees total regression since Eakins has come here,,oh yea too many coaches over the years,,,heres the thing get the RIGHT coach and Eakins is not it

  84. Pouzar says:

    Byfuglien can certainly be had me thinks. He’s down 8 min less a game as a RWer on the third line. That salary is not meant for a 3rd liner so me thinks Chevy is definitely all ears on him. I would love him here just for the pure entertainment of listening to fans squabble. You thought Omark and Penner were polarizing lads. :)

  85. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler:
    Sekera with the 2014 Goal of the Year tonight. The Canes looked overwhelmed otherwise, but that was a helluva goal.

    The goal itself was unspectacular, but !wow! he had the puck for 22 seconds before scoring. Nice possession work. (I hope Yak doesn’t watch that highlight.)

  86. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Pouzar:
    Byfuglien can certainly be had me thinks. He’s down 8 min less a game as a RWer on the third line. That salary is not meant for a 3rd liner so me thinks Chevy is definitely all ears on him. I would love him here just for the pure entertainment of listening to fans squabble. You thought Omark and Penner were polarizing lads.

    This. It makes me laugh seeing Winnipeg fans hammer this guy regularly, and Winnipeg’s two coaches both decide he’s better on the wing, not to mention all those bloopers on the highlight reels, and then contrast that with the idea that somehow a stud like Buff would be the answer to Oilers’ woes on the back end. Not saying he wouldn’t be an improvement on some of those duds, er dudes we got back there now, but he has major issues that wouldn’t magically disappear with a change of scenery.

    Agree with Pouzar the entertainment value would be through the roof though, both on and off the ice.

  87. theres oil in virginia says:

    spoiler: Hope Hall matures a bit

    I don’t think there’s any doubt of this happening. You can’t be as frustrated and as competitive as he clearly is, for this long, without doing something about it. I don’t think it’s going to be a very fun summer for Taylor’s buddies:

    Bud1: “Where’s Taylor?”
    Bud2: “Working out.”

    Bud1: “Where’s Taylor?”
    Bud2: “Shooting practice.”

    Bud1: “Where’s Taylor?”
    Bud2: “Punching a wall, last I saw him.”

    Bud1: “Where’s Taylor?”
    Bud2: “Skating. He can’t hold a stick for a couple more days.”

    I love his competitive fire. Future captain. I don’t worry about Hall, or Nuge, or Eberle. Keepers, all.

  88. Pouzar says:

    Bruce McCurdy: This. It makes me laugh seeing Winnipeg fans hammer this guy regularly, and Winnipeg’s two coaches both decide he’s better on the wing, not to mention all those bloopers on the highlight reels, and then contrast that with the idea that somehow a stud like Buff would be the answer to Oilers’woes on the back end. Not saying he wouldn’t be an improvement on some of those duds, er dudes we got back there now, but he has major issues that wouldn’t magically disappear with a change of scenery.

    Agree with Pouzar the entertainment value would be through the roof though, both on and off the ice.

    Then again Bruce, they also think Mark Stuart is the 2nd coming.
    I live in the Peg have to hear it everyday.

  89. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar: Then again Bruce, they also think Mark Stuart is the 2nd coming.
    I live in the Peg have to hear it everyday.

    I looked at stuart’s numbers awhile back, they were ghastly.

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