CHANCE

The kid is something special, isn’t he? 17 shots and five points in his last two games, and Taylor Hall looks like a man on a mission. “Chance” is having a helluva finish. He won’t make the second all-star team (Ovechkin’s still in the league) but this is a nice run.

NHL EVEN STRENGTH SCORING LEADERS hall evens

Incredible! Among NHL players, Hall is tied for fourth in the entire NHL this season. This horrible, not very good, let’s put it out of our minds season. Insane.

 NHL TOTAL POINTS LEADERS

hall top 10Our man is now tied for 9th in scoring overall, and if he had those missed games back Hall might be third on this list. The shame in all of this? A brilliant season wasted on the way. It can’t happen again.

GOOD ARROWS

chase fergusonThe new recruits hit the ice last night, and damned if the teenager didn’t score a late goal to send things to overtime. Greg Chase scored a very nice goal, was +2 and generally performed like he could manage at the higher level.

neal chase and khairaI’ll have more on these two later today, but it’s interesting to note that coach Nelson inserted these two guys straight into the lineup. Khaira turns 20 in August, Chase in January. Both players have skill, but you always wonder if it’s enough to perform at the next level. Early results are good, and of course this is a very small sample size.

Finally, this courtesy Pouzar in the previous thread:

  • Neal ‏@tweetneal · 1h Greg Chase & Jujhar Khaira, through one period in OKC, have added more skill than this team has seen in three weeks. #OKCBarons
  • Neal ‏@tweetneal · 1h @zacharyRjohnson Chase actually plays angles very well for a big body, love both of these guys already.
  • Eric Rodgers ‏@ericrsports · 1h Chase with two shots in the first period. Khaira 3-3 on faceoffs by my count. Three in the offensive zone, all wins.
  • #OKCBaronsNeal ‏@tweetneal · 22m  Greggy Chase scores! Beats goaltender high, on the glove side. 4-4 game. #OKCBarons
  • Neal ‏@tweetneal · 22m Chase went hard through a defender on net. Lovely. #OKCBarons
  • Neal ‏@tweetneal · 20m @pand75 Seems to find himself in the right spots at right time. Very mature first pro game.
  • Neal ‏@tweetneal · 58m Me too “@ericrsports: Loving Chase’s forechecking abilities. #OKCBarons #oilers”
  • Eric Rodgers ‏@ericrsports · 2h Khaira has a magnet on the crease on the PP. Perfect positioning by him in front of Mayer. #OKCBarons #oilers
  • Eric Rodgers ‏@ericrsports · 2h Chase hops off the bench for his first shift, jumps right into the play and forces a turnover for a shot. #OKCBarons #oilers
  • Eric Rodgers ‏@ericrsports · 2h Khaira and Chase both on the second PP unit. Big chance by Chase and it rings off the crossbar. #OKCBarons #oilers

GAGNER’S DESTINATION

gagner common1The Gagner story has been put on the back burner as the trade deadline passed, but I thought it might be worth going over possible destinations for #89. Alan Muir at SI reported that the Kings interest had cooled but Nashville was interested. That report came six weeks ago, but the Preds need help offensively. It’s a nice match for Edmonton because Nashville has picks at #7, #37, #45 and #67, along with some nice players who can be part of a deal.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

transporter_3_image_PnSNENZ2EjRwWpW

 10 this morning, you’re not going to want to miss it (not even bragging). TSN 1260, scheduled to appear:

  • Dennis King, Oilogosphere icon. We’ll talk Hemsky, Leafs spiral, mlb.
  • Ian Esplen, Puckrant. We’ll have a closer look at the 2014 entry draft.
  • Brendan Porath, SB Nation. Tiger  is out of the Masters, ack! Who to cheer for/against?
  • Dave Jamieson, TSN 1260. Dave is going to walk us through the CFL spring and summer, including ‘PA negotiations and recruitment.

10-1260 via text, @Lowetide_ on twitter. See you on the radio!

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175 Responses to "CHANCE"

  1. Truth says:

    I’ve noticed two things over the last couple of games. One, that the top lines’ zone entry strategy is give the puck to Taylor Hall. Two, that it appears the top line is attempting to take as many shots as possible. Almost as if they are sick of being outshot or they are actively trying to change their Corsi. Maybe others aren’t seeing this.

    Is there any chance Draisaitl falls to #7 overall? I don’t think so, but if he is and the offer for Gagner is on the table including that pick I think they pull the trigger, if they haven’t already picked him at #2 or #3. I realize this is sort of a backwards move, but do the Predators have anything the Oilers want other than the three defensemen they likely won’t give up?

  2. gcw_rocks says:

    Stronger showing in last two games has pushed recent performance in line with post Christmas performance. Wet have moved from regressing to flat.

    Last 20:
    CF% = 42.7%
    FF% = 41.6%

    Since January 1st:
    CF% = 42.7%
    FF% = 41.6%

    If your add another decimal point there are slight differences, but basically this is where the team has settled under Eakins.

  3. zatch says:

    As I’m sure many have heard already, TSN doing an advanced stats primer on the pregame tonight by Mike Johnson. That’s kind of huge, I think. Likely the biggest mainstream recognition of them yet. I just hope it’s done well.

  4. gcw_rocks says:

    Bruce has a post up on the inexperience of the d core with Ference out. MacT needs to own this since he didn’t bring in enough veteran help last summer and then traded Smid for magic beans.

    Can we get a real GM please?

  5. oliveoilers says:

    Truth:
    I’ve noticed two things over the last couple of games.One, that the top lines’ zone entry strategy is give the puck to Taylor Hall.Two, that it appears the top line is attempting to take as many shots as possible.Almost as if they are sick of being outshot or they are actively trying to change their Corsi.Maybe others aren’t seeing this.

    Is there any chance Draisaitl falls to #7 overall?I don’t think so, but if he is and the offer for Gagner is on the table including that pick I think they pull the trigger, if they haven’t already picked him at #2 or #3. I realize this is sort of a backwards move, but do the Predators have anything the Oilers want other than the three defensemen they likely won’t give up?

    And @ LT. Preds have them nice juicy #37 & #45 picks. We have no mid round picks. No way we get a 1st for Sam. Not with how he’s been playing. As has been said before, people need to decide what Sam is before saying “He’s been terrible, we’d like to trade you a first rounder/roster player for our 2C that’s never scored 50pts in a season.” You’re right, if we can get #7, you do it in a blink. I’m thinking one or both of those slightly later picks, a depth player and a rodeo belt buckle. We DID do them a solid with taking Hendricks contract, so who knows what promises were made?

  6. oliveoilers says:

    gcw_rocks:
    Bruce has a post up on the inexperience of the d core with Ference out. MacT needs to own this since he didn’t bring in enough veteran help last summer and then traded Smid for magic beans.

    Can we get a real GM please?

    Argument can be made that the d has been a little better without Captain Fantastic….

  7. borisnikov says:

    Didn’t Esplen write the “Who’s better than Taylor Hall?” trolling bit at Puck Rant a couple months back? Make sure he hears about it today on the show;)

  8. frjohnk says:

    I hope Gagner is not traded for picks this summer. His value is still at a low level and I believe our cupboard has a decent amount of prospects. What we need are NHL players right now. As much as I don’t like it, he might be the best option for a stop gap 2nd line center until we get one that is ready, presumably through this draft.

    If we don’t trade this pick, my second option would be draft one of the centers and send them back to junior. Hope Gagner regains some value, a healthy Gagner could get 50-60 points, trade him next summer, If he rebounds, then we would most likely get better value. Then bring in this years pick to play in 2015-16.

  9. frjohnk says:

    Gagner would not fetch a first round pick, maybe a 2nd round pick , maybe less with that contract.
    Cogliano fetched a 2nd round pick who ended up being Marco Roy.
    If Marco Roy even makes it to the show, it might be 4 more years. We need players, not picks, or prospects.

  10. flyfish1168 says:

    Picked up ouR tickets for tomorrows game against the coyotes. I hope Chance will have a big game. Twice I came to edmonton and both times he was out.

  11. Marcus Oilerius says:

    Tiger being out of the Masters is probably the best thing that can happen to golf right now. Ideally he doesn’t come back to play for years.

    Who’s leading? Doesn’t matter, because as soon as you turn on TSN, you’ll find out Tiger is only 8 shots back. Back of whom? Doesn’t matter, Tiger still has a chance. Tiger had a double bogey. Tiger had a birdie. Tiger is on the back 9. Tiger. Tiger. Tiger. Tiger. Tiger. Tiger. Tiger who hasn’t accomplished much of anything since his scandal, but he’s still 50% of a golf broadcast.

  12. stevezie says:

    oliveoilers: Argument can be made that the d has been a little better without Captain Fantastic….

    But would it be a good argument? No Ference means more Fraser.

    I think Ference is fine when found in the final half of a D corps.

  13. Andy P says:

    I don’t mind this team with these replacement players, losing by a little as 1 point against contending teams. I do mind when the full team gets blown out by anybody, let alone other bottom dwellers.

    The blown out teams were bad teams. The team that played the last two nights was almost competitive – the kind of team where one or two replacements of Frasers or Actons by NHL hockey players will win those games.

    Assuming we sort out the Assistant coach position.

  14. Pouzar says:

    Marcus Oilerius:
    Tiger being out of the Masters is probably the best thing that can happen to golf right now.Ideally he doesn’t come back to play for years.

    Who’s leading?Doesn’t matter, because as soon as you turn on TSN, you’ll find out Tiger is only 8 shots back.Back of whom?Doesn’t matter, Tiger still has a chance.Tiger had a double bogey.Tiger had a birdie.Tiger is on the back 9.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger who hasn’t accomplished much of anything since his scandal, but he’s still 50% of a golf broadcast.

    We finally agree on something.

  15. gcw_rocks says:

    oliveoilers,

    That would not be a ringing endorsement of the General Manager who signed Captain Fantastic to a four year deal with a NMC.

  16. Lois Lowe says:

    I really liked Marincin and Klefbom’s games last night. I can’t see, barring a massive regression, how they’re not on the opening day roster next fall.

  17. flyfish1168 says:

    Marcus Oilerius:
    Tiger being out of the Masters is probably the best thing that can happen to golf right now.Ideally he doesn’t come back to play for years.

    Who’s leading?Doesn’t matter, because as soon as you turn on TSN, you’ll find out Tiger is only 8 shots back.Back of whom?Doesn’t matter, Tiger still has a chance.Tiger had a double bogey.Tiger had a birdie.Tiger is on the back 9.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger who hasn’t accomplished much of anything since his scandal, but he’s still 50% of a golf broadcast.

    If it wasn’t for Tiger golf would not have gotten the amount of sponsors or tournament money. Tiger made golf for the next generation. No denying that fact. For a black person to make it in this sport it open the door for many. Which will be the next generation.

  18. Pouzar says:

    Andy P,

    I really don’t know how serious to take this organization if the same Asst coaches are back next year. At least 1 addition/deletion is needed to convince me a little accountability trumps the OBC.

  19. Esa10 says:

    I might be in the minority here but I truly do not believe that Gagner get’s a defensemen of any true value. He may get the Oilers (to quote LT) some 6-7′s but definitly not a facecard.

    Also, The oilers cannot continue to stockpile picks and I think MacT has shown that he wants to get better now with his plethora of moves.

    Hence, the dilemma.

    Some teams need skill, like the predators.

    The Oilers need strong 2 way players.

    There might be a fit here.

    Realistic players that the oilers should target :

    Nash: Wilson, spaling
    LA: Clifford, Vey, King
    Ana: Rights to Winnik, Smith-Pelly.

    Gagner +++ might get 1 or two of these players, but all of them would add legitimacy to the Oilers top 9.

    To fix the D, The oilers need to either give up a superkid, a superpick, or overpay in free agency.

    I’d go with the latter and target:
    Niskannen, Quincy, Nikitin. 2 of those 3 would allevite the sickness that is the Oilers D-fence.

  20. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Michael Parkatti ‏@mparkatti 56s
    Taylor Hall first 46 games: 43.1% EV Corsi. Taylor Hall last 24 games: 48.0% EV Corsi.

    fixed?

  21. Esa10 says:

    But, I should add.
    WHAT FREE AGENT WOULD WANT TO SIGN HERE AFTER THIS DISASTER!!! So Frustrating.

  22. Jordan says:

    Last night was quite a good evening all told. Had my birthday back in January, and had been planning to go out for supper with my Dad at Pampas. Plans got delayed until March, due to schedule issues, and then again until last night. I’d never been to the Brazilian Steakhouse before, but it was a great experience. If you’ve never been, there’s a buffet in the centre of the restaurant with a number of sides, salads, appetizers, dressings and garnishes available. You take what you want, and then servers come around offering you different cuts of meat – 10 available in all. Last night there were 5 Beef cuts, 2 chicken, 2 pork & 1 lamb. 9 of the 10 were at least good, with three being very good and one being excellent. That said, I’ve always been a sucker for a nice ribeye. My favourite cut of beef.

    Returned to my Dad’s place where we enjoyed more than enough Appletons to have a great evening. Played some Cribbagge before the game started, and even managed to take a game off the old man. Of course, have a hand of 24 +4 sure helps a lot.

    Last night’s game was the first game I’ve watched in its entirety since October.

    I’m sure everyone else will be talking about the highlights that anyone who watched the game would have noted – The first line was generating offense through the transition game, Larsen was outstanding playing a utility role (F & D), Jultz had some really bad turnovers and Marincin went toe to toe with Getzlaff in numerous puck battles and held his own. Fasth seemed to lose focus with the 2nd goal against, and that 3rd was just a killer to let in. Reminded me some of Dubnyk, or Jussi Markennen – good, but not quite enough.

    It’s easy enough to recognize that the team is flawed, and has been for some time. I’d say it’s a lot more balanced this year than it has been for quite a while, but that has a lot to do with the team not getting repeatedly castrated by injuries. It’s easy enough to place blame on Eakins for separating the three amigos, but for a long stretch there they weren’t clicking well. The same can be said for the defense pairings, or ice time given to X or Y, but that doesn’t change the fact that the team still has big holes we all can see need to be addressed to move forwards.

    Was anyone else just waiting for the wheels to fall off after they went up 2-0? I know they almost made it 3-0, but the game never felt like they were anywhere near deserving that lead. To be honest, it seems quintessentially Oiler-like to have Perry come back win the game for the Ducks – like some kind of Karmic dept that Kevin Lowe will keep paying for his hubris with Comrie. To be fair though, I was pretty happy to see the team play a strong game (especially on a back-to-back) and then just fall short. Need more losses to get in good position for the draft. I really hope they take Leon.

    Hope the rest of you enjoyed your evenings as well, and that if you didn’t eat well last night, you be sure to take the time to eat well today. Good food & good company are two of the best things about living here – hope you can enjoy such blessings as well.

  23. Lowetide says:

    Esa10:
    But, I should add.
    WHAT FREE AGENT WOULD WANT TO SIGN HERE AFTER THIS DISASTER!!! So Frustrating.

    The alternative is you keep Gagner. (prepares for violence, plague, locusts)

  24. SoxandOil says:

    That 7th overall would be nice, should be able to draft Virtanen in that spot. Doubtful though that Nashville trades it as that is the kind of player they need.

  25. Pouzar says:

    Lowetide: The alternative is you keep Gagner. (prepares for violence, plague, locusts)

    LT,

    I got you covered.

    I WANT TO TANK NEXT YEAR AS WELL!!!!

  26. oliveoilers says:

    stevezie: But would it be a good argument? No Ference means more Fraser.

    I think Ference is fine when found in the final half of a D corps.

    This is true! I like Ference where Ference should be.

    gcw_rocks:
    oliveoilers,

    That would not be a ringing endorsement of the General Manager who signed Captain Fantastic to a four year deal with a NMC.

    Lol, I guess not!

  27. oliveoilers says:

    Lowetide: The alternative is you keep Gagner. (prepares for violence, plague, locusts)

    The thought had occurred before. If you’re going to take on an overpayed project, better the devil you know…

  28. mumbai max says:

    Marcus Oilerius:
    Tiger being out of the Masters is probably the best thing that can happen to golf right now.Ideally he doesn’t come back to play for years.

    Who’s leading?Doesn’t matter, because as soon as you turn on TSN, you’ll find out Tiger is only 8 shots back.Back of whom?Doesn’t matter, Tiger still has a chance.Tiger had a double bogey.Tiger had a birdie.Tiger is on the back 9.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger.Tiger who hasn’t accomplished much of anything since his scandal, but he’s still 50% of a golf broadcast.

    I am a non golf fan. Used to watch in order to watch Tiger. The rest are faceless drones as far as I can tell. Stopped watching when Tiger stopped winning. I have a feeling I am part of the majority amongst casual fans.

  29. frjohnk says:

    Does Larsen come back as a depth D/ bottom 6 forward next year?
    Most of our bottom 6 forwards have not been noticeable in a good way all year. Larsen was noticeable last night.

  30. Caramel Obvious says:

    The Oilers have more cap space next year than they can spend. That means Gagner’s salary is irrelevant to them since there is no way for them to spend any move they save.

    Considering this I only want Gagner traded for a hockey player. Package Gagner and picks/prospects for Josi.

    If you managed to swap out Gagner for Josi and re-signed everyone decent (Belov, Larsen, Smyth) and keep the inevitable (Gazdic) and the RFA’s (Petry and Schultz) that leaves you with $16 million to fill out three roster spots.

    Spend that on the best center (Stastny, Grabovski, Goc) and best right shooting D (Anton Stralman, Niskanen as backup plan) you can find and you are in business. Spend what you have left over on a winger that makes sense and you have yourself a team.

    I think this team can win.

    CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
    FORWARDS
    Taylor Hall ($6.000m) / Ryan Nugent-Hopkins ($6.000m) / Jordan Eberle ($6.000m)
    David Perron ($3.813m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($4.000m) / Nail Yakupov ($0.925m)
    Daniel Winnik ($3.000m) / Boyd Gordon ($3.000m) / Matt Hendricks ($1.850m)
    Ryan Smyth ($2.250m) / Mark Arcobello ($0.600m) / Anton Lander ($1.250m)
    Luke Gazdic ($0.699m) /
    DEFENSEMEN
    Roman Josi ($4.000m) / Anton Stralman ($3.000m)
    Martin Marincin ($0.730m) / Jeff Petry ($3.000m)
    Andrew Ference ($3.250m) / Justin Schultz ($3.000m)
    Anton Belov ($1.525m) / Philip Larsen ($1.500m)
    GOALTENDERS
    Viktor Fasth ($2.900m)
    Ben Scrivens ($2.300m)
    BUYOUTS
    Eric Belanger ($0.000m)
    BURIED
    Jesse Joensuu ($0.025m)
    ——
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (estimations for 2014-15)
    SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,616,000; BONUSES: $2,990,000
    CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $6,484,000

  31. Andy P says:

    oliveoilers: Argument can be made that the d has been a little better without Captain Fantastic….

    Didn’t Ference win the last game for us? Or should we not let that fact get in the way?

  32. mumbai max says:

    frjohnk:
    I hope Gagner is not traded for picks this summer.His value is still at a low level and I believe our cupboard has a decent amount of prospects.What we need are NHL players right now. As much as I don’t like it, he might be the best option for a stop gap 2nd line center until we get one that is ready, presumably through this draft.

    If we don’t trade this pick, my second option would be draft one of the centers and send them back to junior.Hope Gagner regains some value, a healthy Gagner could get 50-60 points, trade him next summer, If he rebounds, then we would most likely get better value.Then bring in this years pick to play in 2015-16.

    Gagner has to go. Addition by subtraction. Make the best deal on draft day, be it picks or players. Maybe packaging him makes the most sense. Anyway, make the best deal possible and move on.

  33. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Truth: Is there any chance Draisaitl falls to #7 overall? I don’t think so, but if he is and the offer for Gagner is on the table including that pick I think they pull the trigger, if they haven’t already picked him at #2 or #3. I realize this is sort of a backwards move, but do the Predators have anything the Oilers want other than the three defensemen they likely won’t give up?

    At 7 you aren’t going to get Draisaitl.

    But, you’d have a decent shot at the big wingers (Del Colle, ritchie, Virtanen), the Euros (Kapanen, Nylander) and my favorite Barbashev.

  34. hunter1909 says:

    Andy P: Didn’t Ference win the last game for us? Or should we not let that fact get in the way?

    Oilers in fact lost last night. Or should we not let that(real) fact get in the way?

    Or, are you arguing that a Moreau level defenceman with similar skill sets(kind of), has been an exemplary captain?

    Or, are you simply arguing that Ference has been not only an acceptable captain, but a stabilizing influence on the young team? So… everyone stfu?

  35. Caramel Obvious says:

    mumbai max,

    Gagner is an above replacement player. Therefore, by definition, it is impossible to add by subtracting him.

    Getting rid of Gagner just for the sake of it is a terrible idea. There is no opportunity cost to keeping him.

  36. Caramel Obvious says:

    frjohnk:
    Does Larsen come back as a depth D/ bottom 6 forward next year?
    Most of our bottom 6 forwards have not been noticeable in a good way all year.Larsen was noticeable last night.

    Larsen has become my new favourite player. He skates like the wind and battles like a demon. What’s not to like.

    I don’t want to live in a world in which someone like Fraser is an NHL player while someone like Larsen is not.

  37. Bag of Pucks says:

    gcw_rocks:
    oliveoilers,

    That would not be a ringing endorsement of the General Manager who signed Captain Fantastic to a four year deal with a NMC.

    I like this nickname, particularly because his partner Schultz has been playing like a Brown Dirt Cowboy for much of the season.

    Btw, given that Elton/Reg plays for the other team, I hope Brown Dirt Cowboy doesn’t mean what I think it means…

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

  38. slopitch says:

    Id keep Gagner. The Avs have Duchene, Mackinnon, O’Reily and Statsny. Sharks have Thorton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture. The Oilers have Nuge plus a one dimensional C in Gagner and a one dimensional C in Gordon.

    Keep Gagner and draft another (shameless plug but I havent blogged in 2 years! lol)

  39. theres oil in virginia says:

    Lowetide: The alternative is you keep Gagner. (prepares for violence, plague, locusts)

    I’m not so sure they trade him, anyway. If you can’t get value for him, then what? I had a sneaking suspicion that the trade talk may have, in part, been a wake up call to him and the other guys in that group. They were getting awfully comfortable. Who knows.

  40. oliveoilers says:

    Andy P: Didn’t Ference win the last game for us? Or should we not let that fact get in the way?

    Single handed, no doubt about it. You’ll have to excuse me. I’m unused to such huge sample sizes. Yes, there was a lot of good things to take from that game. I really feel that we turned a corner and that everyone is finally buying in. Always tough when these guys come to town, we have to remember to make good decisions on the ice.

    Dude, you have to admit your statement was maybe not as smart as it could have been. Ference is a fine third pairing d-man on a good team. So, while he did score the OT GWG, does it justify his contract? Hardly GWG game 7 vs the Bruins at the Stanley Cup Final, was it? I think the rest of the team and the fact that Hiller did his best Dubnyk impression that game helped too.

  41. Andy P says:

    We need to differentiate between bad players and those that aren’t good enough to win a cup in their present role. Gagner is what he is, a 2nd or 3rd rate 2C. He has some offence when he is not injured, and he is weak on defence. Let’s not get so frustrated with Gags that we want to trade hi except to improve the team, and the team with a 2nd round pick instead of Gags is not what we need right now. Don’t trade unless it improves the team.

    I don’t think MacT is a bad GM at all. I think he is making the best of the situation he finds himself in. This is not a free agent honeypot. This is where you go when you cant get a job anywhere else except the Islanders. We have no scenery, no metropolis, no lake, no beach, no mountains, no sea, no waves, and our fans harass our coaches and players when they are out in the public shopping, gassing up their cars, or watching their kids play soccer, I am sure.

    Tambo didn’t fail for lack of trying – in an overcautious Tambo manner. MacT has been a lot more aggressive and innovative, and I think what he has landed was the best he could do in the circumstances.

    Please don’t come at me with his incompetence over letting Hemmers and Smid go at below market value. That’s what happens when a once faithful player finally wants out of the shirt show. MacT had to take what he could get, just as 6 Rings had to when Pronger and others wanted out in the black summer of 2006.

    I’ve had my outbursts like the rest of us but if Bucky is not the constant that has mucjked up our offense, then we have a much bigger problem, one of an organization that is rotten to the core. I sure hope it is not that, or we are doomed.

  42. icecastles says:

    Esa10: I might be in the minority here but I truly do not believe that Gagner get’s a defensemen of any true value. He may get the Oilers (to quote LT) some 6-7′s but definitly not a facecard.

    I think everyone is saying the same thing… you’re definitely not the minority. As frustrating and disappointing as this year as been for him and those cheering for him, I think his low trade value may be a case of the Oilers being saved from themselves. There was clearly a desire to move him and with such low current value, MacTavish has no choice but to lose any trade he makes. Gagner’s value can only go up at which point he nets a better return, or is an integral part of a team currently starved for both experience and center. I’m a fan of the little hobbit so I suppose I’m biased, but I’m very glad they didn’t dump him.

  43. oliveoilers says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    mumbai max,

    Gagner is an above replacement player.Therefore, by definition, it is impossible to add by subtracting him.

    Getting rid of Gagner just for the sake of it is a terrible idea.There is no opportunity cost to keeping him.

    Succinctly put. I concur. If we’re going to have to take other teams’ garbage for him, might as well keep him. You never know.

  44. Bag of Pucks says:

    Tiger pre-knee issues was THE reason to watch golf.

    Watching him ‘grip and rip’ a ball out of the rough with an iron was a thing of beauty. Losing that power advantage has brought him back to the field. He was also an AMAZING putter in his first few years. Remember that long, long curving put when he lapped the Masters’ field?

    Wonder how much the well documented fall from grace contributed to his fall from the pinnacle? Back in the day, I honestly thought he started every round with a 3 shot advantage cos the other players saw him as invincible.

    I would love it if he mounted a late charge for Nicklaus’ majors mark. That would be compelling sports drama.

  45. hunter1909 says:

    If anyone seriously still needs to shake the “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight it’s the size of the fight in the dog” chestnut – please study Maricin’s boa constriction of little Cogliano last night.

    Here’s basically what happens: Cogs is flying around like he’s a power forward as always, bangs into the goalie then Marincin grabs Cogs by the head and slowly, and just like a giant snake, starts twisting his arms around the mini Duck’s torso…until broken up by the play being whistled dead. Cogs would have left that exchange still holding his breath lol.

    Marincin+Klefbom = great defense prospects. Petry’s a keeper also, imo.

    Shultz hopefully forgets this season and starts again like a good, new player.

  46. icecastles says:

    Bag of Pucks: I would love it if he mounted a late charge for Nicklaus’ majors mark. That would be compelling sports drama.

    Or at least it would be if it weren’t for the fact that it’s golf.

    (somebody had to say it.)

    hunter1909: If anyone seriously still needs to shake the “It’s not the size of the dog in the fight it’s the size of the fight in the dog” chestnut – please study Maricin’s boa constriction of little Cogliano last night.

    That’s why Martain St-Louis and Theo Fleury never made it.

  47. hunter1909 says:

    icecastles: That’s why Martain St-Louis and Theo Fleury never made it.

    Okay I’m game: You enter another 2 names of players that size, and I promise to supply 10 players over 5’11″ who are equally as good.

    I’ll double that bet, and offer 10 players for your every 1 player.

    Now. Wtf kind of strategy is it, to actively make it official policy to target drafting smaller skilled players, on a 10 to 1 long shot?

    Because that’s Oilers drafting: Target small players, collect a coke machine in round 2 or 3, then play politics with the scouts so they won’t feel left out with 4-7 picks…instead of knowing the fuck how to run a draft. Oilers are laughable, the more you think about it. Simply clownsville.

    Insane Clown Posse should start using Oilers gear, if they’re still going.

  48. Lois Lowe says:

    hunter1909:

    Insane Clown Posse should start using Oilers gear, if they’re still going.

    You know, hunter, you’ve always struck me as a Juggalo.

  49. Hammers says:

    Hall and that line top marks . Klefbom & Marincin top marks . Fhast should have beaten his old team but 1 softie and I iffy goal. The best return we get for Gags is to tie him to the 1st rd pick and get an actual player and a pick in the top 8-10 . Still gives us a reasonable first round pick and hopefully a “D” or “C” we need . Not sure of the team but there maybe a good deal to be had especially if say the NYI give Buffalo there pick so Myers & 4th or 5th .

  50. flyfish1168 says:

    You need big players to protect those little balls of hate. Marchard would not be that brave without lucic around.

  51. J-Bo says:

    frjohnk:
    I hope Gagner is not traded for picks this summer.His value is still at a low level and I believe our cupboard has a decent amount of prospects.What we need are NHL players right now. As much as I don’t like it, he might be the best option for a stop gap 2nd line center until we get one that is ready, presumably through this draft.

    If we don’t trade this pick, my second option would be draft one of the centers and send them back to junior.Hope Gagner regains some value, a healthy Gagner could get 50-60 points, trade him next summer, If he rebounds, then we would most likely get better value.Then bring in this years pick to play in 2015-16.

    I was just thinking something similar this morning… I think this is more dependent on what Mac-T can accomplish leading up to the draft. The Oilers top two needs clearly are a top defenseman and a better 2C. I think the draft will drive what Mac-T does. I don’t think the pick is going anywhere. If they draft Ekblad they will be aggresively pursuing a different 2C. If they draft Draisaital or Bennett (I do not see the organization having an appetite for Reinhart) they will be pursuing a top d-man. Mac-T history suggests that he will hold onto Gagner if the value isn’t there, but he will go if the projected incremental value next year (assuming an average showing from Gagner next season) isn’t much better – he simply can’t make his decision assuming Sam will have a career year next year for the Oilers.

    Realistically the Oilers are still a couple years and a few good moves and maturing away from real play-off contention. I think the organization might look at it that way as well. Therefore, the moves and top draft pick this summer will be worked together with an end game in mind of having this baby built for real 2-3 seasons down the road.

    Oilers 3 years from now…

    Hall-RNH-Eberle
    Perron-???-Yakupov
    ???-???-???
    Gazdic-Gordon-???

    Nurse-Schultz
    Klefbom-Petry
    Marincin-Veteran D-man

    Looking at the D prospects why would they pick Ekblad? they would only pick him if one or two of these guys were headed out of town for a 2C or something. The defensive pairings I put up look kind of silly as 3 of these guys are virtually unknowns at this point, but this I suppose is the hope or somewhere there about. If Yakupov rounds out, we get a high compete, tough, 2C and a good 3rd line….

    I don’t think Mac-T will fire sale. Biggest trade will likely be Gagner for not a whole lot and biggest free-agent signing will be for a higher-end d-man that the fan base will see as not nearly enough for next year…which it won’t be.

    #Still3YearsOut #FactsOfLife

  52. icecastles says:

    hunter1909: Okay I’m game: You enter another 2 names of players that size, and I promise to supply 10 players over 5’11″ who are equally as good.
    I’ll double that bet, and offer 10 players for your every 1 player.
    Now. Wtf kind of strategy is it, to actively make it official policy to target drafting smaller skilled players, on a 10 to 1 long shot?
    Because that’s Oilers drafting: Target small players, collect a coke machine in round 2 or 3, then play politics with the scouts so they won’t feel left out with 4-7 picks

    Where do I even start…

    1: Yes those two guys are outliers. I knew they’d get me in trouble as they are such rare talents. But your implication that a smaller player is automatically less capable of succeeding in the NHL is simply crazy. Even Cogliano is making a career for himself and finding some real success. Pointing to one play where he got pushed off the puck doesn’t invalidate this. You’re basically making your case here with a sample size of exactly one play by one player (yes there are plenty of other examples, but there are also plenty of examples of a Nuge eluding a hulking behemoth with deft skating).

    2: The “10 players for every 1 player”. Sure, there are lots of big players. More of them. Saying there is any correlation whatsoever with ‘there are more big guys than small’ and what you’re asserting… well, there’s simply no logical connection. In fact, I’m not entirely certain what connection you’re trying to draw.

    3: Official policy of drafting small players. Now you’re just making things up, and you know it. The “A” in BPA stands for “available” not “Aaaah I’m going to draft someone from my imagination because he’s better than the actually flesh and blood guys I have to choose from in the here and now.” Yeah I know… I couldn’t think of anything clever that started with ‘A’. It’s a busy day.

    4: Insane Clown Posse. After my time and well outside of my tastes. I have no idea.

    5: For every big skilled player you can name, I can name five or ten who either don’t use their size, don’t use it effectively, or don’t have the skill or speed to take advantage of it anyway. So should I imply that size is irrelevant in the face of skill? Of course not – both are faces of the same silly argument and both are equally flawed. You use what you have, be it speed, smarts, size, tenacity, agility, great hair (why do you think MacT never put a helmet on?). If you have a greater abundance of these things than your opponent, you come out on top. It’s not rock-paper-scissors (lizard-spock) where one trumps the other automatically, every time.

    Except great hair of course. You can’t stop great hair, you can only hope to contain it. In a helmet. MacT excluded.

  53. icecastles says:

    flyfish1168: You need big players to protect those little balls of hate. Marchard would not be that brave without lucic around.

    Marchand has little balls?

  54. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Apparently the Oilers have signed the Jones’ twin brothers.

    It’s unclear what the terms of the deal are and whether it is actually an Oilers deal or a Barons deal.

    Barons lousy in random talent right now. should help playoff run.

  55. oliveoilers says:

    Hammers:
    Hall and that line top marks . Klefbom & Marincin top marks . Fhastshould have beaten his old team but 1 softie and I iffy goal. The best return we get for Gags is to tie him to the 1st rd pick and get an actual player and a pick in the top 8-10 . Still gives us a reasonable first round pick and hopefully a “D” or “C” we need . Not sure of the team but there maybe a good deal to be had especially if say the NYI give Buffalo there pick so Myers & 4th or 5th .

    Hey Hammers, could you clarify? Are you suggesting Gagner for Myers and a 1st rounder, or Myers and a late rounder or Gagner + for Myers +? I don’t think we’d get a 1st for Gagner, as things stand.

  56. Pouzar says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Tiger pre-knee issues was THE reason to watch golf.

    Watching him ‘grip and rip’ a ball out of the rough with an iron was a thing of beauty. Losing that power advantage has brought him back to the field. He was also an AMAZING putter in his first few years. Remember that long, long curving put when he lapped the Masters’ field?

    Wonder how much the well documented fall from grace contributed to his fall from the pinnacle? Back in the day, I honestly thought he started every round with a 3 shot advantage cos the other players saw him as invincible.

    I would love it if he mounted a late charge for Nicklaus’ majors mark. That would be compelling sports drama.

    impeccable short game, never missed a putt he needed, and bombed his 3 wood past most people’s Driver. Unreal

  57. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    here we go.

    Oklahoma City Barons ‏@okcbarons 1m
    NEWS: The #OKCBarons have signed forwards Kellen and Connor Jones to ATOs, 14-15 AHL SPCs > http://bit.ly/1j5jw7w . pic.twitter.com/Xdq5FpvAYN

    Barons’ deals. So, doesn’t affect the 50-man roster.

    Another interesting, smart move by MacT

  58. Pouzar says:

    flyfish1168:
    You need big players to protect those little balls of hate. Marchard would not be that brave without lucic around.

    Chase + Moroz ?????

  59. oliveoilers says:

    I know we shouldn’t take joy in other’s misfortune, but:

    @TSNBobMcKenzie: RT @TEAM1040: On whether Torts will be back next season; @GMMikeGillis “I’m not sure I’ll be back next season”

    Mwa ha haha ha!

  60. Halfwise says:

    Pouzar: impeccable short game, never missed a putt he needed, and bombed his 3 wood past most people’s Driver. Unreal

    I think if we separate Tiger the golfer from the network coverage of Tiger the golfer the discussion makes more sense. Tiger the golfer, at least in his prime, was Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier rolled into one. He deserved all the coverage because most of the time he WAS the story. Definitely grew the game. I don’t buy the racial importance angle, because his game was so exceptional.

    But the networks got hooked on Tiger and these days, when Tiger is less relevant, casual viewers still tune in to see what he’s doing.

    I can’t blame the networks for hanging on to what drives their ratings but as a guy who watches part of every televised tournament I will say I mute the commentary more often when it’s all about Tiger, just 5 shots back and poised to make a charge, maybe. He isn’t the story anymore.

    In fairness, maybe there isn’t a story anymore because he isn’t what he was, 99 + 11, almost every frickin tournament.

  61. Bag of Pucks says:

    Gagner’s NMC kicks in before free agency opens, correct?

    In other words, it’s not an option for MacT to hold onto him, see if they can sign someone like Stastny, and if they can, deal Samwise after that date?

    If no, I agree everything will be predicated on whether Ekblad falls to them in their slot. If he does, Gagner lives to fight another day. If Ekblad’s off the board, Stu takes the C highest on their board and Sam is gonzo alonzo presumably in exhange for a 3D or 4D.

    And no, I don’t think Sam’s value has plummeted so much that he can’t fetch a roster player in return. It all boils down to supply and demand. MacT just needs to target teams with a surfeit of D depth and a lack of secondary scoring. He’ll likely have to take a bad contract back in return. Gags can be productive if sheltered on the right team.

    Volchenkov with NJ? Enstrom with WPG? Ellis with NASH? Liles with CAR?

  62. Ducey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: here we go.Oklahoma City Barons ‏@okcbarons 1mNEWS: The #OKCBarons have signed forwards Kellen and Connor Jones to ATOs, 14-15 AHL SPCs > http://bit.ly/1j5jw7w . pic.twitter.com/Xdq5FpvAYNBarons’ deals. So, doesn’t affect the 50-man roster.Another interesting, smart move by MacT

    I think the plan from the time they drafted Kellen was to get both brothers.

    Its almost like MacT has decided to use the Moneyball approach to filling the farm team; exploit the fact other teams don’t want to invest in small players. You get good production from cheap players who have some upside.

    The Barons are shaping up to be a lot of fun to follow next year.

  63. flyfish1168 says:

    icecastles: Marchand has little balls?

    They become bigger with Lucic around

  64. Pouzar says:

    Halfwise: I think if we separate Tiger the golfer from the network coverage of Tiger the golfer the discussion makes more sense. Tiger the golfer, at least in his prime, was Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier rolled into one. He deserved all the coverage because most of the time he WAS the story. Definitely grew the game. I don’t buy the racial importance angle, because his game was so exceptional.

    But the networks got hooked on Tiger and these days, when Tiger is less relevant, casual viewers still tune in to see what he’s doing.

    I can’t blame the networks for hanging on to what drives their ratings but as a guy who watches part of every televised tournament I will say I mute the commentary more often when it’s all about Tiger, just 5 shots back and poised to make a charge, maybe. He isn’t the story anymore.

    In fairness, maybe there isn’t a story anymore because he isn’t what he was, 99 + 11, almost every frickin tournament.

    Agree with all that.

    What’s nuts is that he has never come from behind on the final day to win a Major.

  65. flyfish1168 says:

    Pouzar: Chase + Moroz ?????

    I would love to see a line of chase khaira and moroz. A line that maybe ballsy

  66. Ducey says:

    Halfwise: I think if we separate Tiger the golfer from the network coverage of Tiger the golfer the discussion makes more sense. Tiger the golfer, at least in his prime, was Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier rolled into one. He deserved all the coverage because most of the time he WAS the story. Definitely grew the game. I don’t buy the racial importance angle, because his game was so exceptional.But the networks got hooked on Tiger and these days, when Tiger is less relevant, casual viewers still tune in to see what he’s doing. I can’t blame the networks for hanging on to what drives their ratings but as a guy who watches part of every televised tournament I will say I mute the commentary more often when it’s all about Tiger, just 5 shots back and poised to make a charge, maybe. He isn’t the story anymore. In fairness, maybe there isn’t a story anymore because he isn’t what he was, 99 + 11, almost every frickin tournament.

    You understand that Tiger won 5 tournaments and was player of the year (his 11th) last year? He needs 3 more wins to be the winningest player ever?

    I cheer against him as I hate the fist pumps, sour demeanor and what he did to his family.

    But saying he isn’t the story is like saying the NHL should not be paying attention to Sidney Crosby.

  67. Bag of Pucks says:

    flyfish1168: They become bigger with Lucic around

    Unbelievable how gay that sounds.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

  68. Bag of Pucks says:

    Halfwise: I think if we separate Tiger the golfer from the network coverage of Tiger the golfer the discussion makes more sense. Tiger the golfer, at least in his prime, was Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier rolled into one. He deserved all the coverage because most of the time he WAS the story. Definitely grew the game. I don’t buy the racial importance angle, because his game was so exceptional.

    I don’t think you can underrate the racial angle. Before Tiger, golf was largely seen around the world as a game played predominantly by rich white men of privilege. Global participation in the game at the grass roots level soared in the years after Tiger’s first Masters’ win.

    Nike gave Tiger $40million because they saw his demographic appeal. Cuts across racial AND class lines. That is very rare in an athlete.

  69. blainer says:

    Ok ..nobody is saying it so I will. We are talking about Nashville and gagner. Remember the oilers are the ones who traded Wayne Gretzky AND traded for Pronger.the oilers may well win the lottery again maybe they offer gagner petry or Shultz the 2014 pick, the 2015 pick (lottery protected) do you think that gets their interest? It would interest me. Nashlville’s last two seasons have not been good. I think it is possible they may be looking at mini rebuild. This trade sets them up well for the future and present. I never discount the possibility of great players getting traded anymore. Maybe we also throw in a prospect or two.

  70. Bag of Pucks says:

    Btw, if MacT is bound and determined to get a vet 1D this offseason, the Oil’s first rounder in the McDavid draft will have HUGE appeal around the league.

    Is he convinced that one player is what they need to turn the corner? If yes, he may be willing to trade that pick? If GMs around the league are convinced an Oiler first rounder equals another Top 3 pick and a great lottery ticket for McDavid?

    THAT is a decision that would be reminiscent of the Kessel/Seguin trade and the attendant fallout.

  71. oliveoilers says:

    blainer:
    Ok ..nobody is saying it so I will. We are talking about Nashville and gagner. Remember the oilers are the ones whotraded Wayne Gretzky AND traded for Pronger.the oilers may well win the lottery again maybe they offer gagner petry or Shultzthe 2014 pick, the 2015 pick (lottery protected) do you think that gets their interest? It would interest me. Nashlville’slast two seasons have not been good. I think it is possible they may be looking at mini rebuild. This trade sets them up well for the future and present. I never discount the possibility of great players getting traded anymore. Maybe we also throw in a prospect or two.

    Is this a Weber trade proposal? That went south when we let O’Mark go.

  72. Caramel Obvious says:

    Nashville isn’t going to trade Weber.

    If you want to hunt big fish the only guy who conceivably might be available is Subban. That’s actually an interesting intellectual exercise. What is the price that Montreal might trade him but which wouldn’t eviscerate the Oilers roster.

    I think it is something like this:

    One of: Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz
    Yakupov or first round pick,
    Gagner

    Does Nurse, Yakupov, and Gagner get you Subban? Is that a good deal for the Oilers?

    If I’m the Canadians I don’t do it but there is the whole coach relationship angle. On the other side, that’s a great deal for the Oilers–give him 8 years x 8M and you’re off.

    What if it was Nurse, Yakupov + first round pick? That’s a huge price. I still think I do it if I’m the Oilers but I could be talked out of it.

  73. Alpine says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I hope this doesn’t come across as insensitive to the plight of black athletes in America, but Tiger had it relatively easy compared to other black athletes, and other black golfers (lee elder, charlie sifford) who got much worse treatment from the public. Not to mention the fact that he came from a pretty privileged background relative to other black athletes. Tiger came in at a point where racism in the US had subsided for the most part, even as yes, golf was seen as very much a white-dominated sport.

    I understand the demographical and marketing point, but I feel it was minor in comparison to him just being young, exciting, and dominant.

  74. icecastles says:

    Ducey: I cheer against him as I hate the fist pumps

    I can’t begin to imagine how much you must hate Nail Yakupov.

  75. Bag of Pucks says:

    I don’t think the Habs trade Subban unless it’s for a legitimate 1C (preferably with size).

    Bergevin measures his team against the Bruins. He’s keen to upgrade the size of his roster.

  76. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey: I think the plan from the time they drafted Kellen was to get both brothers.

    Its almost like MacT has decided to use the Moneyball approach to filling the farm team; exploit the fact other teams don’t want to invest in small players.You get good production from cheap players who have some upside.

    The Barons are shaping up to be a lot of fun to follow next year.

    IIRC both have been staples at training camps over the years. Clearly a relationship was built over time.

    I thought they wouldn’t sign them… but I hadn’t fully considered AHL-only contracts for prospects. It’s a smart move.

    The only concern is that you may limit the room for the bona fide prospects potentially and won’t be able to take on bona fide AHL vets (like say Matt Ford). We’ll see though.

    The team of MacT, Bob Green and Bill Scott are a pretty dynamic combo so it seems.

  77. blainer says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Caramel Obvious:
    Nashville isn’t going to trade Weber.

    If you want to hunt big fish the only guy who conceivably might be available is Subban.That’s actually an interesting intellectual exercise.What is the price that Montreal might trade him but which wouldn’t eviscerate the Oilers roster.

    I think it is something like this:

    One of: Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz
    Yakupov or first round pick,
    Gagner

    Does Nurse, Yakupov, and Gagner get you Subban?Is that a good deal for the Oilers?

    If I’m the Canadians I don’t do it but there is the whole coach relationship angle.On the other side, that’s a great deal for the Oilers–give him 8 years x 8M and you’re off.

    What if it was Nurse, Yakupov + first round pick?That’s a huge price.I still think I do it if I’m the Oilers but I could be talked out of it.

    You may be correct about Weber…But….That team is also going in the wrong direction. In my opinion he is the one piece that can get them back in the hunt within a couple of years. They really don’t have a lot of players that will command the return he does. I have been in business for a longtime and can tell you that everybody has a price. Never is not a word I use much. Again, Just my opinion..

  78. Halfwise says:

    Bag of Pucks: I don’t think you can underrate the racial angle. Before Tiger, golf was largely seen around the world as a game played predominantly by rich white men of privilege. Global participation in the game at the grass roots level soared in the years after Tiger’s first Masters’ win. Nike gave Tiger $40million because they saw his demographic appeal. Cuts across racial AND class lines. That is very rare in an athlete.

    Ducey: You understand that Tiger won 5 tournaments and was player of the year (his 11th) last year? He needs 3 more wins to be the winningest player ever?I cheer against him as I hate the fist pumps, sour demeanor and what he did to his family.But saying he isn’t the story is like saying the NHL should not be paying attention to Sidney Crosby.

    Both good points. Nike’s gambles on athletes are awesome to watch…McIlroy gets a big bag of money and promptly goes into a year-long slump. And Woods isn’t David Duval out there, he is competitive.

    Maybe I am just another fickle fan, easily bored by routine regardless of its level of excellence. I don’t much care whether Tiger wins or loses but I do care when the broadcast makes more of a story of him than his play in the tournament deserves. Of course, I care about lots of other inanities from the commentators too, it’s not just their coverage of Tiger that has me hitting the mute button.

  79. icecastles says:

    Alpine: I hope this doesn’t come across as insensitive to the plight of black athletes in America, but Tiger had it relatively easy compared to other black athletes

    Being one of the most talented players in history tends to do that, yes.

    Alpine: Tiger came in at a point where racism in the US had subsided for the most part

    You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.

    And yes, your post comes across as insensitive to black people. Typically if you have to add the disclaimer, it’s probably a safe bet that what follows the disclaimer is going to be insensitive. I won’t go so far as to call it racist, but it’s pretty uninformed.

  80. Bag of Pucks says:

    Alpine:
    Bag of Pucks,

    I hope this doesn’t come across as insensitive to the plight of black athletes in America, but Tiger had it relatively easy compared to other black athletes, and other black golfers (lee elder, charlie sifford) who got much worse treatment from the public. Not to mention the fact that he came from a pretty privileged background relative to other black athletes. Tiger came in at a point where racism in the US had subsided for the most part, even as yes, golf was seen as very much a white-dominated sport.

    Agreed, but a golfer with a black father and an asian mother was hugely appealing around the globe in places where Arnold Palmer and Tom Watson didn’t offer much appeal to the huddled masses.

  81. Pouzar says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    I don’t think the Habs trade Subban unless it’s for a legitimate 1C (preferably with size).

    Bergevin measures his team against the Bruins. He’s keen to upgrade the size of his roster.

    Gagner is 200+ lbs

    *ducks*

  82. icecastles says:

    Pouzar: Gagner is 200+ lbs

    I always forget this fact, and it’s quite interesting. I don’t think anyone would disagree that Gagner’s playing style is that of the archetypical ‘small’ hockey player.

    I wonder if a lot of this is related to the fact that he was brought into the league to early and too young, and ended up cementing habits that were reflective of a small guy simply because he still was, and wasn’t ready for the physicality of the NHL game. By the time he was big enough to engage physically, the mold (mould? I never know) was cast in his mind as a ‘small skilled’ forward.

    I know plenty of ink has already been spilled on the subject, but it just kills me thinking about how certain Oilers’ development curves and struggles might have differed with a more patient development. Speculation, but tantalizing speculation.

  83. Bag of Pucks says:

    If Bergevin traded PK Subban for Sam Gagner, Montreal would have a civil uprising that would make the Richard Riot look like a backyard bbq.

  84. godot10 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Michael Parkatti ‏@mparkatti56s
    Taylor Hall first 46 games: 43.1% EV Corsi. Taylor Hall last 24 games: 48.0% EV Corsi.

    fixed?

    MacT and Eakins broke Taylor Hall. Tyler Dellow called them out. Taylor Hall magically is fixed.

    The GM and coach are “idiots”.

  85. icecastles says:

    Shopping Cart: MacT and Eakins broke Taylor Hall. Tyler Dellow called them out. Taylor Hall magically is fixed.
    The GM and coach are “idiots”.

    The sign of an excellent troll is that once in a while, you can’t even tell whether or not they’re kidding.
    Well played, sir.

  86. Hammers says:

    oliveoilers: Hey Hammers, could you clarify?Are you suggesting Gagner for Myers and a 1st rounder, or Myers and a late rounder or Gagner + for Myers +?I don’t think we’d get a 1st for Gagner, as things stand.

    I’m saying give up our 1st rd pick with Gags for, as an example Myers and NYI 1st if Buffalo gets it this year .Basically our 1st rd pick & Gags for player X and that teams 1st rd pick . For me Gags has to be part of a deal as that will be the only way we get value back and I see our #1 being the best thing to package him with and hopefully still get back another teams 1st + a “D” or “C”

  87. Khlhfs says:

    godot10,

    Hi.

    I’m a long time reader first time poster.

    I’m just curious why no one seems to think that Hall’s decreased Corsi numbers are not as a result of the ACL sprain he suffered earlier in the season. I believe most of the posts at the time (including one from Jason Strudwick at ON) indicated that even though you can play soon after its at least a few months before you regain the agility as well as confidence in that knee. Isn’t such a timeline in line with parkatti’s spike in Hall’s corsi numbers?

  88. blainer says:

    Like most here I am not high on Gagner. Haven’t been sinse his 3rd year. MacT cannot keep him next year. It is best Gagner gets a chance to prove he has talent somewhere else , maybe with a bigger team or in Chicago with Kane again. He has to take what he can get and move on no matter what even if it’s for little return because it Will be addition by subtraction. If he approaches the transaction in this manner he should get something done. He may have to retain salary or buy him out. Good luck as this is a very important step for this team to improve. Have to say I really don’t want to mess with that first line next year. That is the one area I would be patient for 1 more year.

  89. Mr DeBakey says:

    Caramel Obvious: Nashville isn’t going to trade Weber.

    Shea Weber trade fans lend me your ears!

    Shea Weber has lead the Predators to 7th from the bottom in the NHL standings.
    When discussing him, conduct yourself accordingly.

  90. blainer says:

    I could see the habs interested in a deal with yak somehow involved. There is a connection between yak and Galchenyuk from junior. Don’t know what it would take but he is no where near the same class as weber. Gagner and yak are small players. Don’t know what else the oilers are willing to risk with him as they don’t have size to offer.. I’m also not sure about including our high pick for him. He is not signed long term and seems to have attitude issues. Not sure though how bad they are or if they even exist , although I have to say he does seem awful cocky.

  91. oliveoilers says:

    Hammers: I’m saying give up our 1st rd pick with Gags for, as an example Myers and NYI 1st if Buffalo gets it this year .Basically our 1st rd pick & Gags for player X and that teams 1st rd pick . For me Gags has to be part of a deal as that will be the only way we get value back and I see our #1 being the best thing to package him with and hopefully still get back another teams 1st + a “D” or “C”

    OK, got it! Basically it’s a one for one trade, depending on who you like at the draft. I still don’t think Gagner gets us Myers! Also, I believe we draft either Ekblad or Draisaitl if they’re available. But crazier things have happened. Thanks for clarifying!

  92. godot10 says:

    Khlhfs:
    godot10,

    Hi.

    I’m a long time reader first time poster.

    I’m just curious why no one seems to think that Hall’s decreased Corsi numbers are not as a result of the ACL sprain he suffered earlier in the season. I believe most of the posts at the time (including one from Jason Strudwick at ON) indicated that even though you can play soon after its at least a few months before you regain the agility as well as confidence in that knee. Isn’t such a timeline in line with parkatti’s spike in Hall’s corsi numbers?

    His Corsi numbers were down even before the injury. Go read Dellow’s woodshedding of Eakins with his Hall analysis.

    Either the OIlers’ analytics team is incompetent, or Eakins and MacT don’t listen to them. Only a public shaming resulted in Eakins changing his dumb coaching.

  93. Andy P says:

    hunter1909: Oilers in fact lost last night. Or should we not let that(real) fact get in the way?

    Or, are you arguing that a Moreau level defenceman with similar skill sets(kind of), has been an exemplary captain?

    Or, are you simply arguing that Ference has been not only an acceptable captain, but a stabilizing influence on the young team? So… everyone stfu?

    No, I was talking about the slapshot that scored a goal in the last game we won. Oliveoil was saying that the d was a little better without Ference. I had also thought the same thing, but realized that it was not a universally true statement because the d is better with Ference in the lineup, provided he plays 3rd pairing. I did not say or infer anything about him being an acceptable captain or a stabilizing influence on the young team.

    But I do understand why MacT brought him in and why Eakins made him captain. Ference had a good pedigree is involved in the community, and sets an example on and off the iced. Most importantly he is supportive of the coach, a desirable attribute in most situations.

    We have seen since then that Ference, for whatever reason, is not as good as we thought he was, and does not seem to enjoy the respect of the young guns the way that Horcoff did. So that’s grist to the mill for the next team, and there is also the personal growth that Taylor Hall has shown.

    If Taylor is prepared to support the coach and keep maturing like he has then he is obviously a strong candidate. But I don’t think Eakins had much choice last year, when the dressing room was pretty much running itself.

  94. Andy P says:

    oliveoilers: Single handed, no doubt about it. You’ll have to excuse me.I’m unused to such huge sample sizes.Yes, there was a lot of good things to take from that game.I really feel that we turned a corner and that everyone is finally buying in.Always tough when these guys come to town, we have to remember to make good decisions on the ice.

    Dude, you have to admit your statement was maybe not as smart as it could have been.Ference is a fine third pairing d-man on a good team.So, while he did score the OT GWG, does it justify his contract?Hardly GWG game 7 vs the Bruins at the Stanley Cup Final, was it?I think the rest of the team and the fact that Hiller did his best Dubnyk impression that game helped too.

    Please read my response to Hunter. I was arguing against you saying our d was slightly better without him. I was saying not so, provided Ference plays 3rd pairing.

    Who would you rather have on the ice: a) Pylon b) Pylon that catches penalties and passes pucks to the opposition c) Andrew Ference

    I rest my case.

  95. icecastles says:

    Khlhfs: I’m just curious why no one seems to think that Hall’s decreased Corsi numbers are not as a result of the ACL sprain he suffered earlier in the season. I believe most of the posts at the time (including one from Jason Strudwick at ON) indicated that even though you can play soon after its at least a few months before you regain the agility as well as confidence in that knee. Isn’t such a timeline in line with parkatti’s spike in Hall’s corsi numbers?

    Jebus, I had forgotten all about that. You’ve got a really good point there. Shopping Cart mentions Halls numbers were low before the injury but as Shopping Cart tends to do, he ignored the fact that Hall was playing centre the first few games of the season: not his natural position and not, in retrospect, a good fit.

    Welcome, by the way!

  96. icecastles says:

    Andy P: Who would you rather have on the ice: a) Pylon b) Pylon that catches penalties and passes pucks to the opposition c) Andrew Ference

    Lucky for us, we cheer for the Oilers so we get all three of those every night. No need to choose!

  97. WeirsBeard says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    The Oilers have more cap space next year than they can spend.That means Gagner’s salary is irrelevant to them since there is no way for them to spend any move they save.

    Considering this I only want Gagner traded for a hockey player.Package Gagner and picks/prospects for Josi.

    If you managed to swap out Gagner for Josi and re-signed everyone decent (Belov, Larsen, Smyth) and keep the inevitable (Gazdic) and the RFA’s (Petry and Schultz) that leaves you with $16 million to fill out three roster spots.

    Spend that on the best center (Stastny, Grabovski, Goc) and best right shooting D (Anton Stralman, Niskanen as backup plan) you can find and you are in business.Spend what you have left over on a winger that makes sense and you have yourself a team.

    I think this team can win.

    CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
    FORWARDS
    Taylor Hall ($6.000m) / Ryan Nugent-Hopkins ($6.000m) / Jordan Eberle ($6.000m)
    David Perron ($3.813m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($4.000m) / Nail Yakupov ($0.925m)
    Daniel Winnik ($3.000m) / Boyd Gordon ($3.000m) / Matt Hendricks ($1.850m)
    Ryan Smyth ($2.250m) / Mark Arcobello ($0.600m) / Anton Lander ($1.250m)
    Luke Gazdic ($0.699m) /
    DEFENSEMEN
    Roman Josi ($4.000m) / Anton Stralman ($3.000m)
    Martin Marincin ($0.730m) / Jeff Petry ($3.000m)
    Andrew Ference ($3.250m) / Justin Schultz ($3.000m)
    Anton Belov ($1.525m) / Philip Larsen ($1.500m)
    GOALTENDERS
    Viktor Fasth ($2.900m)
    Ben Scrivens ($2.300m)
    BUYOUTS
    Eric Belanger ($0.000m)
    BURIED
    Jesse Joensuu ($0.025m)
    ——
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (estimations for 2014-15)
    SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,616,000; BONUSES: $2,990,000
    CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $6,484,000

    I like this lineup. No crazy trades, rational improvements across the board. And no rookies!

    I don’t know why they can’t be decent next year. They need capable players, that’s all.

  98. blainer says:

    Mr DeBakey,

    Mr DeBakey: Shea Weber trade fans lend me your ears!

    Shea Weber has lead the Predators to 7th from the bottom in the NHL standings.
    When discussing him, conduct yourself accordingly.

    Very True..
    Not to beat this to death but.. Don’t know how many of the bloggers here are old enough to remember the gretzky trade. Those that are will remember exactly, where they were, and what they were doing the day that happened. Much like The JFK assassination or more recently 9-11. I remember like it was yesterday my hockey buddies constantly on my case that the oilers are gonna trade gretzky. I think they were just trying to get my goat which they always did. I remember saying to them and this is close to verbatim.. That Edmonton will never trade Greatky there will be riots and that their owner would never be able to do business in the city again. Now I could split hairs and say Edmonton is never trading Gretzky but I think you get my drift. Weber is absolutely tradeable and believe me when I say he will not be remembered as the greatest to ever play the game. JMHO…

  99. DeadmanWaking says:

    icecastles: Gagner’s value can only go up at which point he nets a better return

    Yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit he goes nuclear in December next season, after we’ve already hit the snowclone skids yet again.

    Gag to get some.

    The downside is that you actually have to wear the damp diaper while you’re eagerly awaiting your morning sheaf of dead tree to skim for the heavenward wiggle.

    I suppose if you rip up enough newsprint confetti and mash it in there, you won’t get too much rash gnashing to cash out. Your brave mark on the balance sheet won’t show up in the standings until a future season.

    No passengers, please, in Ready October.

  100. OilClog says:

    icecastles: Jebus, I had forgotten all about that. You’ve got a really good point there. Shopping Cart mentions Halls numbers were low before the injury but as Shopping Cart tends to do, he ignored the fact that Hall was playing centre the first few games of the season: not his natural position and not, in retrospect, a good fit.

    Welcome, by the way!

    Two games of Taylor Hall at pivot shouldn’t bury his numbers.

    Sure, he had a knee sprain and it’s a bitch to quickly come back from.. Still this isn’t why Halls numbers were in the brown house.

    Eakins admitted! “We let Taylor start doing what he does on the ice more and loosened the reigns on him”

    Coincidence his numbers started to improve when the “mad scientists” pissed off!

  101. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Khlhfs:
    godot10,

    Hi.

    I’m a long time reader first time poster.

    I’m just curious why no one seems to think that Hall’s decreased Corsi numbers are not as a result of the ACL sprain he suffered earlier in the season. I believe most of the posts at the time (including one from Jason Strudwick at ON) indicated that even though you can play soon after its at least a few months before you regain the agility as well as confidence in that knee. Isn’t such a timeline in line with parkatti’s spike in Hall’s corsi numbers?

    Hello!

    welcome.

    It’s certainly a reasonable assumption that injury played a role.

    However, MC79′s breakdown of the video mixed with what both MacT and Eakins have said publicly shows fairly conclusively that at some point early in the year the team pushed Hall to change his zone entry tactics.

    Suddenly you see a lot more dump and tip ins from whatever line Hall is on. And it correlates with his corsi drop.

    Then Eakins acknowledged they over-corrected Hall and changed some things. And, his corsi has risen since.

    We don’t have the video analysis to confirm the theory mind you.

    So… it isn’t necessarily one or the other. It certainly looks like systems were at play, but that doesn’t mean the injury didn’t also affect things.

  102. WeirsBeard says:

    Loving Hall when he is in beast mode these last few games. How long has it been since we last had a player capable of what he does? 1991?

  103. icecastles says:

    blainer: Those that are will remember exactly, where they were, and what they were doing the day that happened. Much like The JFK assassination or more recently 9-11.

    No, not much like that all. It’s sports. Please don’t confuse it with assassination or the deaths of thousands.

    This shouldn’t need to be said.

  104. icecastles says:

    OilClog: Two games of Taylor Hall at pivot shouldn’t bury his numbers.

    True. It’s not the entire narrative, but it *is* part of the narrative.

  105. Ducey says:

    godot10: His Corsi numbers were down even before the injury. Go read Dellow’s woodshedding of Eakins with his Hall analysis.Either the OIlers’ analytics team is incompetent, or Eakins and MacT don’t listen to them. Only a public shaming resulted in Eakins changing his dumb coaching.

    Right. Because Eakins consults Dellow and the other bloggers before making coaching decisions.

    Imagine what an impact LT is having on the Oilers. He has this blog, writes on several others and has a radio show.

  106. icecastles says:

    Ducey: Imagine what an impact LT is having on the Oilers. He has this blog, writes on several others and has a radio show.

    Why do you think Smid was traded?

  107. fifthcartel says:

    RCN ‏@RossCreekNation 7m
    On @OilersNow, @StapeNewsday suggests Isles & Oil may hook up on a Sam Gagner/Josh Bailey swap this summer…

    That’d be interesting. Bailey as the 2LW or 3LW?

  108. Bag of Pucks says:

    This is why we watch when he’s playing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2AvRfxgpL4

    I daresay I would give it a fist pump if I was lucky enough to make any of these 10 shots.

    Tiger with a 6 iron is a force of nature.

  109. blainer says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Caramel Obvious:
    Nashville isn’t going to trade Weber.

    If you want to hunt big fish the only guy who conceivably might be available is Subban.That’s actually an interesting intellectual exercise.What is the price that Montreal might trade him but which wouldn’t eviscerate the Oilers roster.

    I think it is something like this:

    One of: Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz
    Yakupov or first round pick,
    Gagner

    Does Nurse, Yakupov, and Gagner get you Subban?Is that a good deal for the Oilers?

    If I’m the Canadians I don’t do it but there is the whole coach relationship angle.On the other side, that’s a great deal for the Oilers–give him 8 years x 8M and you’re off.

    What if it was Nurse, Yakupov + first round pick?That’s a huge price.I still think I do it if I’m the Oilers but I could be talked out of it.

    Ok I get it..moving on from the weber topic. there are other excellent players out there besides Subban. that guy makes me nervous if you have to give up that much. What about OEL. maybe phoniex is ready for a big move if they don’t make it to the playoffs. How about Keith…ya I know ..see weber.. They might be able to get something done with seabrook though…

  110. Ducey says:

    I noticed Aiden Muir seems to have heated up. He has 40 pts in 52 games and is tied for 40th in USHL scoring. But he is about 15th in even strength scoring as he doesn’t seem to get much PP time (he has the lowest PP points out of anyone in the top 40 with just 4).

    He has 20 pts in his last 18 games.

    A long ways to go, but some glimmer of hope.

  111. Ducey says:

    icecastles: Why do you think Smid was traded?

    True. But they have not brought Pouliot back, (or Pisani out of retirement).

  112. Andy P says:

    icecastles: Why do you think Smid was traded?

    I think Smid wanted out.

  113. Andy P says:

    icecastles: Lucky for us, we cheer for the Oilers so we get all three of those every night. No need to choose!

    That too :)

  114. Bruce McCurdy says:

    slopitch: Keep Gagner and draft another (shameless plug but I havent blogged in 2 years! lol)

    I take it from the URL your blog is called Puck Donkey? You really should add a banner.

  115. hunter1909 says:

    icecastles: But your implication that a smaller player is automatically less capable of succeeding in the NHL is simply crazy.

    I get the feeling I’m trying to punch above my weight here:

    Taken to your extreme, MAB really was an NHL defenceman, instead of a junior high school sized squirt who, because he didn’t possess the body mass to dislodge the opposition forward like a larger(i.e. real) NHL defenceman, instead drove the Hurricane player straight into the surprised knee of Roloson.

    *Runs away, bravely*

  116. blainer says:

    Andy P,

    I don’t have any inside info but do remember Mact saying that if he heard anybody in the room being a negative influence he would move them. Now I can’t see Smid in that light but one never knows. A lot of bad things get said when a team is always losing.

  117. godot10 says:

    Ducey: Right.Because Eakins consults Dellow and the other bloggers before making coaching decisions.

    Imagine what an impact LT is having on the Oilers.He has this blog, writes on several others and has a radio show.

    Stauffer asked MacT about Dellow’s analysis, and MacT dissembled a response.

    Would have liked to have been a fly on the wall at the next meeting of MacT, Eakins, and the Oilers’ analytics guys.

  118. icecastles says:

    hunter1909,

    I enjoyed reading that too much to even tell if I agreed or not. :D

  119. hunter1909 says:

    blainer: I don’t have any inside info but do remember Mact saying that if he heard anybody in the room being a negative influence he would move them.

    Poor Eakins. First he loses the players, and now this.

  120. russ99 says:

    blainer:
    Like most here I am not high on Gagner. Haven’t been sinse his 3rd year. MacT cannot keep him next year. It is best Gagner gets a chance to prove he has talent somewhere else , maybe with a bigger team or in Chicago with Kane again. He has to take what he can get and move onno matter what even if it’s for little return because itWill be addition by subtraction.If he approaches the transaction in this manner he should get something done. He may have to retain salary or buy him out. Good luck as this is a very important step for this team to improve. Have to say I really don’t want to mess with that first line next year. That is the one area I would be patient for 1 more year.

    That’s my take as well.

    Moving Gagner is just as much about cap space and opening a spot to improve the roster as it is to move an ill-fitting piece and not getting locked into an NTC with a non-core player.

    I still think a second rounder and a prospect is the return at the draft. Maybe a little more if we’re willing to eat salary. And that return goes down every day after the draft as we get closer to the NTC kicking in.

  121. russ99 says:

    hunter1909,

    Awesome.

    Hunter, you’ve been a bright light in an otherwise dismal season.

  122. Marcus Oilerius says:

    blainer,

    To be fair, Smid hasn’t done well in Calgary. MacT might have identified him as someone to be replaced by a cheaper option with more potential and moved on it.

  123. blainer says:

    russ99,

    russ99: That’s my take as well.

    Moving Gagner is just as much about cap space and opening a spot to improve the roster as it is to move an ill-fitting piece and do it before we’re locked into the NTC.

    I still think a second rounder and a prospect is the return at the draft. Maybe a little more if we’re willing to eat salary. And that return goes down every day after the draft as we get closer to the NTC kicking in.

    Its nice to see somebody agreeing with me on Gagner. I really only started blogging recently because of the way they handled gagner. I really don’t like dissing SAM because I think he is well liked. It’s not a personal thing its what I think is best for the team. When macT was trying to convince everybody last year that he was important I just didn’t understand what team he was watching. Even with the good year he had and the injury he sustained.. but,,.If gagner is on this team next year I really think that will be one of the reasons there will finally be a change in management. Get what you can for him and run..

  124. blainer says:

    Marcus Oilerius,

    Agreed. I think he had the blinkers on for Brossoit and wanted relief from his contract. From a salary cap perspective I think it is going to be a great decision moving forward.

  125. Andy P says:

    blainer:
    Like most here I am not high on Gagner. Haven’t been sinse his 3rd year. MacT cannot keep him next year. It is best Gagner gets a chance to prove he has talent somewhere else , maybe with a bigger team or in Chicago with Kane again. He has to take what he can get and move onno matter what even if it’s for little return because itWill be addition by subtraction.If he approaches the transaction in this manner he should get something done. He may have to retain salary or buy him out. Good luck as this is a very important step for this team to improve. Have to say I really don’t want to mess with that first line next year. That is the one area I would be patient for 1 more year.

    Seeing Gags came in 2007 and Bucky in 2008, how about the theory that Bucky is behind the poor play of every one of our young core?

    An honest question: What examples do we have of talented players flourishing under coaches who spent their entire career as grinders? In spite of what I’d like to hear, I am suspecting that there may be a few or many. Which then begs the question, if they weren’t crushed by playing under a grinder as an assistant, then what might Bucky be doing (seriously) that would cramp so many good players?

  126. blainer says:

    Further , I am concerned about the ference contract also and would not be surprised if he does something there also. I am more concerned about the last two years. He may be needed now to possibly draw some UFA’s this summer.. I am however not concerned at all about Hendricks contract and was really hoping Mact was going to get him last summer. His Corsi is not great but he brings the heart this team needs. he gets killed on the zone starts too.

  127. frjohnk says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Nashville isn’t going to trade Weber.

    If you want to hunt big fish the only guy who conceivably might be available is Subban.That’s actually an interesting intellectual exercise.What is the price that Montreal might trade him but which wouldn’t eviscerate the Oilers roster.

    I think it is something like this:

    One of: Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz
    Yakupov or first round pick,
    Gagner

    Does Nurse, Yakupov, and Gagner get you Subban?Is that a good deal for the Oilers?

    If I’m the Canadians I don’t do it but there is the whole coach relationship angle.On the other side, that’s a great deal for the Oilers–give him 8 years x 8M and you’re off.

    What if it was Nurse, Yakupov + first round pick?That’s a huge price.I still think I do it if I’m the Oilers but I could be talked out of it.

    Subban is most likely a Norris Trophy candidate for the next decade. He might have a little too much “Mike Green” in his game. Would Subban and our bi-polar fan base mesh well? With the way Subban plays, I can see the fans loving him one game, shooing him out of town the next.

    I’d love to have Subban but that could be a big overpayment.

    As for the Nurse, Yak and first rounder proposal. The nice thing about this proposal is that it does not take much away from todays roster. Nurse and the 2014 pick are not on the roster, and Yak’s production this year has been 3rd line. But fast forward the clock four years and each of those could reach their potential or close to it, this could be like trading a top pairing D man, or at least a top 4 Dman ( Nurse), a top 6 winger who scores 30-40 goals a year ( Yak), a big 2nd line Center who plays tough minutes and puts up 60 points ( Draisaitl ).

    I don’t do it. There is too much risk that we overpay and overpay big time.

  128. blainer says:

    Andy P,

    Andy P: Seeing Gags came in 2007 and Bucky in 2008, how about the theory that Bucky is behind the poor play of every one of our young core?

    An honest question: What examples do we have of talented players flourishing under coaches who spent their entire career as grinders? In spite of what I’d like to hear, I am suspecting that there may be a few or many. Which then begs the question, if they weren’t crushed by playing under a grinder as an assistant, then what might Bucky be doing (seriously) that would cramp so many good players?

    Wow Andy,

    We really are on the same page. I was honestly shocked..and don’t why Eakins kept those assistants unless he was told to wink wink nudge nudge..Gotta think that its playing a big factor in not only gagner’s development but with yak and so on and so on.. another reason the management will be tossed next seoson if they are still here this time next year..

  129. LMHF#1 says:

    Caramel Obvious:

    One of: Klefbom, Nurse, Schultz
    Yakupov or first round pick,
    Gagner

    Umm, why not just offer sheet and keep those guys?

  130. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    I noticed Aiden Muir seems to have heated up. He has 40 pts in 52 games and is tied for 40th in USHL scoring.But he is about 15th in even strength scoring as he doesn’t seem to get much PP time (he has the lowest PP points out of anyone in the top 40 with just 4).

    He has 20 pts in his last 18 games.

    A long ways to go, but some glimmer of hope.

    thanks for the update.

    I think the concern wasn’t just production… but that’s not a very strong league and IIRC he must be one of the older players there now.

    I believe he’s off to college next year (or is the year after?). it will be interesting to watch how he makes the jump.

  131. blainer says:

    frjohnk,

    frjohnk: Subban is most likely a Norris Trophy candidate for the next decade.He might have a little too much “Mike Green” in his game.Would Subban and our bi-polar fan base mesh well?With the way Subban plays, I can see the fans loving him one game, shooing him out of town the next.

    I’d love to have Subban but that could be a big overpayment.

    As for the Nurse, Yak and first rounder proposal.The nice thing about this proposal is that it does not take much away from todays roster.Nurse and the 2014 pick are not on the roster, and Yak’s production this year has been 3rd line.But fast forward the clock four years and each of those could reach their potential or close to it, this could be like trading a top pairing D man, or at least a top 4 Dman ( Nurse), a top 6 winger who scores 30-40 goals a year ( Yak), a big 2nd line Center who plays tough minutes and puts up 60 points ( Draisaitl ).

    I don’t do it.There is too much risk that we overpay and overpay big time.

    Boy In really thinking that deal over I think I would do it for gagner Nurse and Yak. I don’t think the habs will though. I gotta think to trade that first pick this year is difficult. Depends on where we end up I suppose. What if it is the first overall again? You are correct about the fan base though. I really do fret he would be a major distraction in the room , but maybe I am wrong.

  132. Alpine says:

    icecastles,

    Yeah my mistake, I worded that really poorly, I meant to say insensitive towards Tiger for having to deal with any racism that he had dealt with. I guess from my own uninformed perspective I never viewed him as different from his peers on the basis of skin colour, as much as I’d seperate him from the rest for being the undisputed best ever. So naturally, I was ignorant of the racial undertones of his success because I was too young to remember his early career and what he would have to go through as far as being a black golfer in a white environment. I just thought I’d add a bit of context as to how the racial aspects of his career were sort of downplayed, and it was more or less formed off of ignorance on my part.

  133. Bag of Pucks says:

    blainer:
    russ99,

    Its nice to see somebody agreeing with me on Gagner. I really only started blogging recently because of the way they handled gagner. I really don’t like dissing SAM because I think he is well liked. It’s not a personal thing its what I think is best for the team. When macT was trying to convince everybody last year that he was important I just didn’t understand what team he was watching. Even with the good year he had and the injury he sustained.. but,,.If gagner is on this team next year I really think that will be one of the reasons there will finally be a change in management. Get what you can for him and run..

    Sorry this idea that players that were grinders as coaches can’t coach skill players (i.e. they’re ruining them!) is patently ridiculous.

    Dave Tippet, Mike Babcock, Glen Sather, Al Arbour, Barry Trotz, Claude Julien, Joel Quennenville, Alain Vigneault.

    Do you remember any of these coaches as wonderfully skilled players? Arbour was probably the best of them as a player and he was a defensive defenseman. Sure didn’t seem to stop him from getting the best out of Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, etc. Slats was the prototypical journeyman grinder and he presided over arguably the greatest offensive teams in the history of the league!

    Not to mention all the successful coaches that didn’t even play in the NHL if they even played hockey at all! Scotty Bowman, Ken Hitchcock, Pat Burns, Badger Bob Johnson, Mike Keenan, Jon Cooper

    They can either coach or they can’t. What they did as players is immaterial. If that mattered, Gretzky would’ve been a HoF coach.

  134. delooper says:

    Bag of Pucks: Sorry this idea that players that were grinders as coaches can’t coach skill players (i.e. they’re ruining them!) is patently ridiculous.

    Especially considering Gretzky’s tenure as coach. It was like Spider Man trying to teach joe 6-pack how to rock climb.

  135. blainer says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Bag of Pucks: Sorry this idea that players that were grinders as coaches can’t coach skill players (i.e. they’re ruining them!) is patently ridiculous.

    Dave Tippet, Mike Babcock, Glen Sather, Al Arbour, Barry Trotz, Claude Julien, Joel Quennenville, Alain Vigneault.

    Do you remember any of these coaches as wonderfully skilled players? Arbour was probably the best of them as a player and he was a defensive defenseman. Sure didn’t seem to stop him from getting the best out of Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, etc. Slats was the prototypical journeyman grinder and he presided over arguably the greatest offensive teams in the history of the league!

    Not to mention all the successful coaches that didn’t even play if they even played hockey! Scotty Bowman, Ken Hitchcock, Pat Burns, Badger Bob Johnson, Mike Keenan, Jon Cooper

    They can either coach or they can’t. What they did as players is immaterial. If that mattered, Gretzky would’ve been a HoF coach.

    Great rebuttle..maybe we should say it this way. They are just awful at their jobs and should be replaced with better grinder player/coaches. I would be happy with any of the above mentioned ..

  136. gogliano says:

    My interpretation of recent threads around here is that the Oilers’ futility has led people to start drinking in the morning.

  137. delooper says:

    When Buchburger was a player, he’d get interviews every once and a while. But as an assistant coach, I’ve never seen him interviewed. Also in the Oil Change episodes I’ve never seen him do anything other than standing around. Has he ever been interviewed as an assistant coach?

  138. blainer says:

    What’s Scotty Bowman up to these days..Maybe Batman can pay 10 Million for one year to come and straighten out this mess..Unfortunately though it would take even Scotty Bowman more than one year..

  139. Bag of Pucks says:

    Bohologo: Glen Sather did okay with some talented kids.

    Built a dynasty. Revolutionized the game. His clubs set numerous records, some of which look virtually unbreakable in the current era.

    Yeah, he did ok for himself ; )

  140. frjohnk says:

    blainer:
    frjohnk,

    Boy In really thinking that deal over I think I would do it for gagner Nurse and Yak. I don’t thinkthe habs will though. I gotta think to trade that first pick this year is difficult. Depends on where we end up I suppose. What if it is the first overall again?You are correct about the fan base though. I really do fret he would be a major distraction in the room , but maybe I am wrong.

    I think Nurse could be the third most untouchable oiler property after Hall and RNH. Not that he would never be traded, but to pry him loose from the oilers hands, it would most likely have to be an overpayment from another team with the way oilers management view this player.

  141. Bag of Pucks says:

    If one of the tasks is to teach the phenoms how to back-check and mark their man, Bucky should be up for the task.

    Teddy Green tasked Buchberger with shadowing Gretzky in the 91/92 playoffs and he shut the Great One DOWN. Kelly was not just a run-of-the-mill grinder. He was one of the best defensive forwards in the league. If he would’ve had more touch around the net, he would’ve been a perennial Selke candidate. Guy missed wide on SO many breakaways.

  142. blainer says:

    frjohnk,

    Ya I am kinda high on nurse myself. I still think its risky with subban anyway. The only thing with subban is he has proven what he can do at the NHL level where Nurse is still a prospect. But I am with ya on the oilers way of thinking just from listening to Mact”s remarks about him.

  143. Caramel Obvious says:

    If you traded Yakupov, Schultz, and Gagner for Subban and complimented it with a few judicious signings you could have a roster that looked like below. That team could win but I don’t think Yakupov, Schultz, and Gagner are enough to get Subban.

    CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
    CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
    FORWARDS
    Taylor Hall ($6.000m) / Ryan Nugent-Hopkins ($6.000m) / Jordan Eberle ($6.000m)
    David Perron ($3.813m) / Mikhail Grabovski ($4.000m) / Nikolai Kulemin ($3.000m)
    Daniel Winnik ($3.000m) / Boyd Gordon ($3.000m) / Matt Hendricks ($1.850m)
    Ryan Smyth ($2.250m) / Mark Arcobello ($0.600m) / Anton Lander ($1.250m)
    Luke Gazdic ($0.699m) / Roman Horak ($0.950m) /
    DEFENSEMEN
    Andrew Ference ($3.250m) / P.K. Subban ($8.500m)
    Martin Marincin ($0.730m) / Jeff Petry ($3.000m)
    Anton Belov ($1.525m) / Philip Larsen ($1.500m)
    Oscar Klefbom ($0.894m) /
    GOALTENDERS
    Viktor Fasth ($2.900m)
    Ben Scrivens ($2.300m)
    BUYOUTS
    Eric Belanger ($0.000m)
    BURIED
    Jesse Joensuu ($0.025m)
    ——
    CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
    (estimations for 2014-15)
    SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $67,035,167; BONUSES: $490,000
    CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,064,833

  144. blainer says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Bag of Pucks:
    If one of the tasks is to teach the phenoms how to back-check and mark their man, Bucky should be up for the task.

    Teddy Green tasked Buchberger with shadowing Gretzky in the 91/92 playoffs and he shut the Great One DOWN. Kelly was not just a run-of-the-mill grinder. He was one of the best defensive forwards in the league. If he would’ve had more touch around the net, he would’ve been a perennial Selke candidate. Guy missed wide on SO many breakaways.

    Glad to see someone taking the other side of a lot of peoples opinions on here with regards to the assistant coaches. I do agree with you analysis with bucky as a player to certain degree …what then would say are the problems with Yak , gagner , and most of the bottom six forwards. It sure would be nice to figure out or more specifically pinpoint as close as possible the problems with their corsi, defensive positioning etc. Do you think it is somethimg other than systems play or do you think they are just weak players because that is also possible.

  145. gcw_rocks says:

    Just noodling, but I have been reading a lot about how similar Reinhardt is to Nuge, except Reinhardt scored a lot more of his points at evens. So, if Ekblad is gone and Reinhardt is still on the board when the Oilers pick, do they call Phoenix and offer Nuge for OEL, and grab Reinhardt as the replacement?

    That would, I think, be very interesting.

    You could then also offer Gagner and Nurse to Carolina for Jordan Staal if you wanted to go really crazy.

    You then have your top pairing defender and your big two way centre and your scoring centre replacement all acquired in one day.

  146. frjohnk says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    If you traded Yakupov, Schultz, and Gagner for Subban and complimented it with a few judicious signings you could have a roster that looked like below.That team could win but I don’t think Yakupov, Schultz, and Gagner are enough to get Subban.

    If Subban is on the table, Montreal would open up the bidding to all 29 teams to get the best return. Yak, Schultz and Gagner would not be the winning bid.

  147. blainer says:

    gcw_rocks,

    gcw_rocks:
    Just noodling, but I have been reading a lot about how similar Reinhardt is to Nuge, except Reinhardt scored a lot more of his points at evens. So, if Ekblad is gone and Reinhardt is still on the board when the Oilers pick, do they call Phoenix and offer Nuge for OEL, and grab Reinhardt as the replacement?

    That would, I think, be very interesting.

    You could then also offer Gagner and Nurse to Carolina for Jordan Staal if you wanted to go really crazy.

    You then have your top pairing defender and your big two way centre and your scoring centre replacement all acquired in one day.

    That is very interesting. Haven’t seen that one before.. Only problem is the Stall boys have no trade clauses. But I like where you are going with that..Although I am a really big fan of the Nuge..It would be a tough decision.

  148. Bag of Pucks says:

    Blainer, I think the Oilers are a poor defensive team for a number of reasons.

    1) Their system play in inconsistent because they’ve had too much coaching turnover. Right now they’re often caught in that space between thinking and reflex. Once the system is ingrained, the right decisions become reflex. That’s crucial in a game like hockey where split seconds can mean all the difference.

    2) The roster is imbalanced, Too many players over their head on the depth chart. Petry should be a 3 or 4D, not a 1, Ference should be a 4-6, not a 1 or 2. Pretty much every one on the D core actually. Nuge should be a 2C not a 1. Hendricks a 4LW not a 3. Lander in the A. etc.

    3) Work ethic / team culture. Great defense is 90% try and sacrifice. That’s why I’ll never throw Buchberger under the bus. There is no player in the HISTORY of this franchise who worked harder than Kelly. Honorable mention Smytty. Unless Eakins’ says he’s a problem, I’m ok with him on the staff.

    What’s the incentive for this team to work hard in its own end? Hall, Nuge and Eberle have already gotten paid. This is Eakins’ greatest challenge.

    The good news is, it looks like he’s getting the buy-in slowly but surely.

  149. Andy P says:

    Bag of Pucks: Sorry this idea that players that were grinders as coaches can’t coach skill players (i.e. they’re ruining them!) is patently ridiculous.

    Dave Tippet, Mike Babcock, Glen Sather, Al Arbour, Barry Trotz, Claude Julien, Joel Quennenville, Alain Vigneault.

    Do you remember any of these coaches as wonderfully skilled players? Arbour was probably the best of them as a player and he was a defensive defenseman. Sure didn’t seem to stop him from getting the best out of Bossy, Trottier, Potvin, etc. Slats was the prototypical journeyman grinder and he presided over arguably the greatest offensive teams in the history of the league!

    Not to mention all the successful coaches that didn’t even play in the NHL if they even played hockey at all! Scotty Bowman, Ken Hitchcock, Pat Burns, Badger Bob Johnson, Mike Keenan, Jon Cooper

    They can either coach or they can’t. What they did as players is immaterial. If that mattered, Gretzky would’ve been a HoF coach.

    So if Bucky and to a lesser degree Smith are the only human constants in multiple years of suck, where everything else has changed – rosters, coaches, trainers, dressing room staff etc – then the reason they got bad results is simply because they don’t have the required skills. Correct?

  150. Bag of Pucks says:

    Andy P: The sad thing is that Eakins is not a bad coach. Not a great coach, but not a bad one. MacT is not a bad GM either and I honestly we are seeing less than full

    So if Bucky and to a lesser degree Smith are the only human constants in multiple years of suck, where everything else has changed – rosters, coaches, trainers, dressing room staff etc –then the reason they got bad results is simply because they don’t have the required skills. Correct?

    I believe the saying ‘correlation is not causation’ applies here.

    In the early years of the suck, they didn’t have the players to compete. Here we are years later, many of the players drafted since are still kids learning the trade and the roster still has gaping holes at 1C, 1D and 2D.

    Instead of the ‘popping the cherry’ pain we were promised, we got systematic prison rape instead. It’s tiring. lol

  151. speeds says:

    godot10: Stauffer asked MacT about Dellow’s analysis, and MacT dissembled a response.

    Would have liked to have been a fly on the wall at the next meeting of MacT, Eakins, and the Oilers’ analytics guys.

    Do you recall when that was, or happen to have the link handy?

  152. icecastles says:

    With problems of the range and complexity the Oilers face, I think we are missing the mark the moment we identify any singular cause and call it the main problem. As Gordon MacKenzie would say, it’s a hairball.

    That said, I believe we have vastly underestimated the impact of the constant coaching changes.

    I see it as learning a new language. A student spends a year learning French. The next year, you take Russian. The year after that, Japanese. And on and on for years. Do you look at the student, years later, and ask how on earth they can still not be bilingual, if they’ve been studying second languages for years?

    Bag of Pucks made the excellent point of being in between thought and reflex. I’d take it a step further still and suggest that with such constant reworking of their game (in key developmental years: remember that this core STARTED INTO a culture of constant coaching turnover: they didn’t arrive anywhere close to being fully-formed or complete NHL hockey players), there are almost no reflexes to fall back on.

    That’s why it’s vital that another coach is sacrificed in the offseason. Eakins may eventually have to go. But at this point, consistency from ANY decent coach (and I’m still some distance from admitting that he’s a bad coach) trumps yet another reset in the unproven hope that the new HC won’t have the exact same struggles we’ve seen through five consecutive coaching changes.

  153. blainer says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Blainer, I think the Oilers are a poor defensive team for a number of reasons.

    1) Their system play in inconsistent because they’ve had too much coaching turnover. Right now they’re often caught in that space between thinking and reflex. Once the system in ingrained, the right decisions become reflex. That’s crucial in a game like hockey where split seconds can mean all the difference.

    2) The roster is imbalanced, Too many players over their head on the depth chart. Petry should be a 3 or 4D, not a 1, Ference should be a 4-6, not a 1 or 2. Pretty much every one on the D core actually. Nuge should be a 2C not a 1. Hendricks a 4LW not a 3. Lander in the A. etc.

    3) Work ethic / Culture. Great defense is 90% try and sacrifice. That’s why I’ll never throw Buchberger under the bus. There is no player in the HISTORY of this franchise who worked harder than Kelly. Honorable mention Smytty. Unless Eakins’ says he’s a problem, I’m ok with him on the staff.

    What’s the incentive for this team to work hard in its own end? Hall, Nuge and Eberle have already gotten paid. This is Eakins’ greatest challenge.

    The good news is, it looks like he’s getting the buy-in slowly but surely.

    Nice to see somebody sticking up for these guys. Those players did play their hearts out. That is in my opinion a lot of the problem, they need more players in that mold. They certainly have started getting some with Hendricks. Your response was kinda what I was expecting. A lot of coahing changes and the proper buy in. I do agree and most of that is on Eakins assuming Kelly is just delivering his message. I have no problem with them keeping Kelly on but.. If they do that I would like to see more coaches added. Kelly could say ..be the video coach.Same with Steve Smith if they like. Find something for him to do too Nothing wrong with being loyal..but I would like to see a change there somewhere. when you have been a part of sooo many losing seasons there needs to changes, even if the head coaches have been changed. Maybe they are not getting the head coaches message through enough I don’t know but if it was my business I would be making changes. That doen’t mean I wouldn’t find something else to do for them.

    Bag of Pucks:
    Blainer, I think the Oilers are a poor defensive team for a number of reasons.

    1) Their system play in inconsistent because they’ve had too much coaching turnover. Right now they’re often caught in that space between thinking and reflex. Once the system in ingrained, the right decisions become reflex. That’s crucial in a game like hockey where split seconds can mean all the difference.

    2) The roster is imbalanced, Too many players over their head on the depth chart. Petry should be a 3 or 4D, not a 1, Ference should be a 4-6, not a 1 or 2. Pretty much every one on the D core actually. Nuge should be a 2C not a 1. Hendricks a 4LW not a 3. Lander in the A. etc.

    3) Work ethic / Culture. Great defense is 90% try and sacrifice. That’s why I’ll never throw Buchberger under the bus. There is no player in the HISTORY of this franchise who worked harder than Kelly. Honorable mention Smytty. Unless Eakins’ says he’s a problem, I’m ok with him on the staff.

    What’s the incentive for this team to work hard in its own end? Hall, Nuge and Eberle have already gotten paid. This is Eakins’ greatest challenge.

    The good news is, it looks like he’s getting the buy-in slowly but surely.

  154. frjohnk says:

    gcw_rocks:
    Just noodling, but I have been reading a lot about how similar Reinhardt is to Nuge, except Reinhardt scored a lot more of his points at evens. So, if Ekblad is gone and Reinhardt is still on the board when the Oilers pick, do they call Phoenix and offer Nuge for OEL, and grab Reinhardt as the replacement?

    That would, I think, be very interesting.

    You could then also offer Gagner and Nurse to Carolina for Jordan Staal if you wanted to go really crazy.

    You then have your top pairing defender and your big two way centre and your scoring centre replacement all acquired in one day.

    Would Phoenix do RNH, Gagner, Nurse for OEL and Hanzel?

    Both Yotes players have no contract limitations, might be easier to do. But this leaves us with no first line center, any of the top picks would not be ready for first line duty for 2 or more years.

  155. Factotum says:

    gogliano:
    My interpretation of recent threads around here is that the Oilers’ futility has led people to start drinking in the morning.

    You’re not alone.

  156. icecastles says:

    frjohnk: Would Phoenix do RNH, Gagner, Nurse for OEL and Hanzel?
    Both Yotes players have no contract limitations, might be easier to do. But this leaves us with no first line center, any of the top picks would not be ready for first line duty for 2 or more years.

    I think you answered your own question. I can’t see either team making this deal.

  157. icecastles says:

    Factotum: gogliano:
    My interpretation of recent threads around here is that the Oilers’ futility has led people to start drinking in the morning.
    You’re not alone.

    After some games this season, I thought it was that Oilers’ drinking in the morning has led to the futility of their play.

  158. Factotum says:

    Icicles filled the long window
    With barbaric glass.
    The shadow of the blackbird
    Crossed it, to and fro.
    The mood
    Traced in the shadow
    An indecipherable cause.

  159. Marc says:

    The main problem with all of these potential trades for guys like Weber or Subban or OEL is that your starting point is a team voluntarily giving up their best player for a package of younger players and high picks from a bad team.

    If Katz were to totally clean house and fire everyone from Lowe down to Joey Moss in order to start fresh, do you think the new guy would trade Hall? Or does he say, well that’s 1LW done with a bullet – let’s see what I can build around him?

    The other big problem is that in almost every example of a team giving up a star for a package of assets, the team giving up the star lost that deal big time. Thornton to San Jose – Boston lost. Pronger to Edmonton – St. Louis lost. Pronger to Anaheim – Edmonton lost. Phaneuf to Toronto – Calgary lost. And so on. Those kind of deals usually aren’t good for a GM’s long term employment prospects or legacies.

  160. RexLibris says:

    Somebody had mentioned the idea/rumour of Gagner to the Islanders for Bailey.

    I’d do that trade. Both are struggling somewhat, and neither are considered big players, but based on the metrics that I believe the Oilers lack right now, Bailey would be an improvement.

    ES has him listed as a center, although elsewhere I’ve seen him as a C/LW. Either way, if the top six next season is Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle, Bailey, Perron, well, I think that is a very nice forward group.

    http://www.extraskater.com/player/748/josh-bailey

  161. blainer says:

    RexLibris,

    RexLibris:
    Somebody had mentioned the idea/rumour of Gagner to the Islanders for Bailey.

    I’d do that trade. Both are struggling somewhat, and neither are considered big players, but based on the metrics that I believe the Oilers lack right now, Bailey would be an improvement.

    ES has him listed as a center, although elsewhere I’ve seen him as a C/LW. Either way, if the top six next season is Hall, RNH, Yakupov, Eberle, Bailey, Perron, well, I think that is a very nice forward group.

    http://www.extraskater.com/player/748/josh-bailey

    I would really prefer some size in the top six.. we are just getting knocked around

  162. denny33 says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    Gagner is an above replacement player. Therefore, by definition, it is impossible to add by subtracting him.
    Getting rid of Gagner just for the sake of it is a terrible idea. There is no opportunity cost to keeping him.
    **********************************************************************************
    This is exactly what the other Western GM’s are telling Mac T……

  163. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Factotum:
    Icicles filled the long window
    With barbaric glass.
    The shadow of the blackbird
    Crossed it, to and fro.
    The mood
    Traced in the shadow
    An indecipherable cause.

    Nothing like a little classic poetry to break the tedium of impossible trade ideas. Well done.

  164. bendelson says:

    Factotum:
    Icicles filled the long window
    With barbaric glass.
    The shadow of the blackbird
    Crossed it, to and fro.
    The mood
    Traced in the shadow
    An indecipherable cause.

    So Taylor Hall is the blackbird… right?

    The river is moving.
    The blackbird must be flying.

  165. denny33 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    MacT just needs to target teams with a surfeit of D depth and a lack of secondary scoring. He’ll likely have to take a bad contract back in return. Gags can be productive if sheltered on the right team.
    ***********************************************************************************************
    Just hoping Mac T will let – all – GMs know that Samwise is for sale…you never know.

    Totally think Sam can contribute to a team with the right mix – in the East.

  166. rickithebear says:

    Having played 3 major contact sports there were times I was in physical battles with players 10″ taller and up to 80 punds heavier. A good leg base and attack at the torso lets you leverage and drive superior sized individuals. Requires good leg and pectoral strength.

    Would sure like to know when Ference tore his pec. How long he played with it, in his words”continued to tear, had to stop before it completely tore .”
    Based on when his EVGA started to go up and a lot of his GA were losing physical battles .
    I would expect Jan.

  167. theres oil in virginia says:

    hunter1909: I get the feeling I’m trying to punch above my weight here:

    Taken to your extreme, MAB really was an NHL defenceman, instead of a junior high school sized squirt who, because he didn’t possess the body mass to dislodge the opposition forward like a larger(i.e. real) NHL defenceman, instead drove the Hurricane player straight into the surprised knee of Roloson.

    *Runs away, bravely*

    Alright, Brave Sir Robin.

  168. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    I’ve mentioned before the idea of offer sheeting Subban, but in genuine interest of understanding why this wouldn’t make absolute sense for the Oilers to do, can I gain others perspective on why this wouldn’t be attempted by the Oilers? It can’t possibly be because its ‘bad form’ to do as a GM? I can’t believe that for a second. I remain perplexed why Montreal has not wrapped this guy up and not leave themselves vulnerable to an offer sheet situation.

  169. Ryan says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    If one of the tasks is to teach the phenoms how to back-check and mark their man, Bucky should be up for the task.

    Teddy Green tasked Buchberger with shadowing Gretzky in the 91/92 playoffs and he shut the Great One DOWN. Kelly was not just a run-of-the-mill grinder. He was one of the best defensive forwards in the league. If he would’ve had more touch around the net, he would’ve been a perennial Selke candidate. Guy missed wide on SO many breakaways.

    That’s just silly logic. Times have changed if you hadn’t noticed.

    Bucky shadowed Gretzky in ’91, a technique lost to the early ’90′s, so therefore he’s the perfect guy to teach team modern defense and structure to Taylor Hall and co.

  170. prairieschooner says:

    How flaky is MacT ?

    The huge props he gave Gagner identifying him as a player to build around

    The attempt to sign Clarkson

    The Cory Schneider offer when DD was coming off a .922 season

    Smid ?

    He has been saved from his own folly a few times already.

  171. mumbai max says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    mumbai max,

    Gagner is an above replacement player.Therefore, by definition, it is impossible to add by subtracting him.

    Getting rid of Gagner just for the sake of it is a terrible idea.There is no opportunity cost to keeping him.

    That would be true if players were just physical beings and/or stats lines. But they are humans who have effects on others around them. I have been on many teams in the corporate world where the subtraction of one of the star ‘players’ has had a resoundingly positive effect on the other ‘players’ and thus the team. Of course that effect is only noticeable if you are not the one being removed!

  172. spoiler says:

    Khlhfs: Hi.
    I’m a long time reader first time poster.
    I’m just curious why no one seems to think that Hall’s decreased Corsi numbers are not as a result of the ACL sprain he suffered earlier in the season. I believe most of the posts at the time (including one from Jason Strudwick at ON) indicated that even though you can play soon after its at least a few months before you regain the agility as well as confidence in that knee. Isn’t such a timeline in line with parkatti’s spike in Hall’s corsi numbers?

    I’ve brought it up. And you’re right. We can’t discount the effect of the injury mentally and physically on Hall. Perhaps he’s more aggressive entering the zone. Perhaps he turns his numbers around much earlier, we don’t know. But we can say that as more time has elapsed since his return, his numbers have improved. Not in a straight line of course, such a thing doesn’t exist. Hockey sticks everywhere.

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