OILERS AT COYOTES, G78 13-14

There are still things to look forward to in this long, miserable season. Five games left to click off the schedule, and little time to post crooked numbers for some of these Oilers. Here are 10 things I want to see before the schedule ends:

  1. Ryan Smyth scoring a power-play goal. I don’t care how he gets it—in fact, I’m a bit pissed Phil Larsen didn’t point at Smyth and say “it hit him, I saw it” the other night on his goal. Smyth was there in 1997 and 1998 and 2006, but most of his wonderful career has been spent on addled teams. I hope he comes back for one more season, I think he would be an exceptional 4line LW for this team.
  2. 80 points for Taylor Hall. No Oiler has reached that mark since Doug Weight posted 90 in 2000-01.
  3. Three wins and a tie. If the Oilers go 3-1-1 in their last five, their final record will be 29-43-10, and it will mean the club went 17-19-7 since starting 12-24-3. If they go 0-4-1, they’ll be 26-46-10, and go 14-22-7 since starting 12-24-3. I know, it doesn’t matter. But hang it all, TURN NORTH!
  4. Nuge scores 20. He needs two more.
  5. One of the three Oilers at 26 goals (Hall, Eberle and Perron) pops 30. Eberle did it a couple of years ago, would be nice to see one do it this season.
  6. More strong play from Marincin.
  7. The game slowing down for Klefbom.
  8. One good game from Gagner, so we’ll have something positive to remember him by.
  9. A hat-trick for Boyd Gordon. He’s earned it.
  10. A 12-save shutout for Ben Scrivens. Oilers owe him one. Or several.

I have a theory about this summer and it goes like this: Craig MacTavish is going to send a lot of players down the line. His in-season tinkering includes overhauling the goaltending (adding Scrivens, Fasth, Brossoit) but he’s had to keep his powder dry on the blueline. I believe we could see a lot of turnover this summer, and if the club starts next season with only Schultz, Ference and Marincin from the current group it wouldn’t be a surprise.

Which brings me to Jeff Petry. I have no evidence, beyond the rumblings of the media who have contact with the Oilers, but it does seem as though the bloom is off the rose in a Laddy Smid kind of way. Please don’t misunderstand, I think Petry is the best defenseman on the team, but I believe we should brace ourselves for a ‘Petry plus for Jason Smith-type’ trade over the summer.

Think Tom Gilbert for Nick Schultz, except MacT in charge and getting a better return.

hall combine1The top 20 prospects from summer 2010 has just about sussed itself out. Edmonton got some very good value, and from surprise areas. Hall was a no-brainer, Eberle has been more than we could have hoped and I do think Jeff Petry is a solid NHL defenseman. There are still men trying to establish themselves these years later (I’ll include Paajarvi, Marincin, Pitlick, Lander, Dubnyk) but the overall thrust of that prospect list is Hall-Eberle and some support.

I thought Paajarvi would be a better player, and still think he’ll have a long, solid career. We cannot, at this point, question the trade for Perron though; that turned out to be a quality move.

Most disappointing? I’ll pick Curtis Hamilton. The numbers and scouting report were very promising, it just didn’t happen for him. I’ve seen and heard people talking about Pitlick and Hamilton being hurt by graduating a year early, but that doesn’t seem like enough to destroy a career. They weren’t 150 pounds or anything.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

adams3Lowdown hits at 10 on TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Steve Lansky, Bigmouth Sports. Playoff race, Oates on Ovechkin, Gillis.
  • Anthony Birchak, MMA Champion and anti-bullying champion. We’ll talk about both.
  • Alex Thomas, Oilers Rig. I’ll make him say ‘chowda!’ and we’ll talk about Oilers moves this summer.

It’s a fluid (I’m not drinking) morning, will update as we roll along! @Lowetide_ on the twitter machine and 10-1260 texting.

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323 Responses to "OILERS AT COYOTES, G78 13-14"

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  1. Fauntleroy says:

    What would be the logic of trading Petry? As you said, he is the club’s best defenceman.

    To me, the Tom Gilbert trade was the defining moment of the Tambellini era. He traded a useful, skilled NHL defenceman for one that was not as skilled. It failed to fill any holes on the team, and afterwards he had difficulty explaining why he had done it and what Schultz would bring that Gilbert couldn’t. It highlighted both the drift in team direction and Tambo’s appalling communication skills.

    LT, Do you really think MacT is capable of the same thing?

  2. flyfish1168 says:

    Looking forward to going to the game tonight in Phoenix. My 1st time seeing Chance play. He was hurt the other 2 times. Just hoping for a similar showing like the last 2 games.

  3. regwald says:

    Didn’t get a chance to comment last night on the Barons post, but what do you think the Oilers were selling to some of the WHL top scorers ? They must see that the top 6 in Edmonton might be tough to crack.

    Do you think the sales pitch went something like, we are looking for some offensive upside in OKC and once you establish yourself, the Oilers need to fill out the middle of the roster in Edmonton. Hell, you will probably even get a chance on one of the top two lines every once and a while.

    What I am wondering, why Edmonton and not another team for specifically Winquist and Holmberg ?

  4. slopitch says:

    If the Oilers move Petry+ for a better dman, I’m all for it. If Petry is an 8 or a 9, its a lot easier to replace that then a 10 or a J. I’d also like to see Smyth back but he needs to fit in as a 4th liner on the pay grid. Make the playoffs next year and send him off with a winning season.

    IIf MacT can make a Perron type trade on the backend as well as make 2 good additions and Yak and Nuge step forward, I blinding/optimistically think the team can get into the show next year.

    But I said that last year.

  5. regwald says:

    I am all for the player upgrades and improvements, but I also want to see the same behind the bench. If MacT stays the course with Eakins (I know I don’t want him back), he needs to find another experienced coach to help Dallas out.

  6. Henry says:

    Petry can pass the puck out of the zone or skate it out of the zone. His coverage is good by Oilers standards. He should be allowed to improve his coverage ideally on the second pair, not be traded.

  7. hungoverman says:

    Thanks LT for Amy Adams this morning. I LOVE her!!!!!!!!!!!
    Oh and go Oilers.

  8. Woodguy says:

    regwald,

    but what do you think the Oilers were selling to some of the WHL top scorers ? They must see that the top 6 in Edmonton might be tough to crack.

    Non-drafted players are not likely to muse about slotting themselves in the top 6 of NHL team except in fantasy.

    I can see MacT pointing at the 4th line and say “We want to ice a more skilled line, we don’t have the horses today, and auditions start tomorrow”

    I hope.

  9. Woodguy says:

    Which brings me to Jeff Petry. I have no evidence, beyond the rumblings of the media who have contact with the Oilers, but it does seem as though the bloom is off the rose in a Laddy Smid kind of way.

    Is this the same group that traded Hemsky for 5 years before he finally went down the line?

  10. sliderule says:

    You are right about Petry.He has he most hits and moves the puck well but so far as I remember has never had a fight.He tends to stay on the edge of the scrums after the whistle.
    There is a culture at the very top of oilers that says you have to fight or at least be an in your face yapping a hole to be a true oiler.Bucky clones would be preferred.
    MPS was traded for a good return but Cogliano was given away because of this culture.
    I have always wondered if they would have dumped Lidstrom if he had been in our system.He would have been the anti Bucky type.

  11. flyfish1168 says:

    regwald:
    I am all for the player upgrades and improvements, but I also want to see the same behind the bench. If MacT stays the course with Eakins (I know I don’t want him back), he needs to find another experienced coach to help Dallas out.

    I agree with you
    As the season and each media interview went you can see eakins needs help. I would like an NHL experienced coach, so what if eakins feel threatened by it, plus 2 new assistants. I feel bucky and smith needs to go. They have been here to long and their track record has been poor.

  12. Henry says:

    The thing with Petry is likely going to be the contract negotiation this summer. He signed pretty much a value bridge contract after a very good year with Smid as a surprise first pairing for Renney. I believe he has arbitration rights now and the Oilers could be in a similar situation as Gagner was last summer with the possibility of taking one year contracts through to unrestricted status. An arbitration hearing could be acrimonious since Petry can show the responsibility he’s been tasked with and the OIlers can show some gaffes.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “Three wins and a tie.”

    No way, no thank you.

    Lose three and then when we are clear of Fla pound the hell out of the Canucks. That’s the prudent move.

    ———
    “but I believe we should brace ourselves for a ‘Petry plus for Jason Smith-type’ trade over the summer.
    Think Tom Gilbert for Nick Schultz, except MacT in charge and getting a better return.”

    I’m not sure how much bracing a single individual can endure, but I don’t think there is enough to sufficiently absorb what you are suggesting here.

    This would be an unrecoverable mistake IMO. It would also signal that the verbal on fleetness and puck movement is gone entirely, despite the Smid and Nick trades.

    no, no, no.

    ————
    “Dubnyk”

    It’s hard to believe that such a short time ago he was still a prospect. Since then so much has happened to him. crazy. goaltenders. nuts.

    ————
    “Most disappointing? I’ll pick Curtis Hamilton.”

    The whole trio of forwards from 2010 has been a disappointment. I still think they qualify both Pitlick and Hamilton… but I wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t.

    “but that doesn’t seem like enough to destroy a career. They weren’t 150 pounds or anything.”

    I’m not sure this is entirely fair. injuries aren’t exactly in the control of the player.

  14. Ducey says:

    Its interesting that Petry leads the Oilers in hits with 168. Second is Ference with 135 and Perron is third with 104.

    So Petry leads the team in hits by a considerable margain. I expect Gregor doesn’t know that.

  15. Andy P says:

    sliderule:
    You are right about Petry.He has he most hits and moves the puck well but so far as I remember has never had a fight.He tends to stay on the edge of the scrums after the whistle.
    There is a culture at the very top of oilers that says you have to fight or at least be an in your face yapping a hole to be a true oiler.Bucky clones would be preferred.
    MPS was traded for a good return but Cogliano was given away because of this culture.
    I have always wondered if they would have dumped Lidstrom if he had been in our system.He would have been the anti Bucky type.

    iirc Cogs was traded because he couldn’t score in a top 6 role. He was fast but he wasn’t big and he couldn’t score. His twin, Gags, stayed because it was thought he could score at the time, and I think he can score and he can be a really good 2C if he had competent coaching (Hello Bucky!)

  16. oliveoilers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    “Most disappointing? I’ll pick Curtis Hamilton.”

    The whole trio of forwards from 2010 has been a disappointment. I still think they qualify both Pitlick and Hamilton… but I wouldn’t be shocked if they didn’t.

    “but that doesn’t seem like enough to destroy a career. They weren’t 150 pounds or anything.”

    I’m not sure this is entirely fair. injuries aren’t exactly in the control of the player.

    Who said anything about being fair? So, do we qualify them and hope they come good? The flip side is they’re in somebody’s way. I guess that’s the risk.

    On Petry. He was our best d-man this year. Just. I don’t think anyone could predict the emergence of Marincin into what resembles a bona fide NHL d-man, or the strong audition of the Kelfbom. As I’ve opined before, consistency is Petry’s enemy. Awesome plays. Awesome lapses of concentration. Same shift. If we get a new defensive coach, I say keep him, maybe the new guy can tweak his game. I don’t think it would take much. Cost/reward would be nothing, he’s a good second pairing as is. Though, as MacT would have it: If you have to ask the question……

  17. Woodguy says:

    I have a theory about this summer and it goes like this: Craig MacTavish is going to send a lot of players down the line.4

    Now that I had time to think about, this season is probably the best thing to have happened to MacT.

    There wasn’t a whole lot of false positives that can lead GMs to make terrible off season decisions.

    His big off season target fell down a hole in TOR and that might make him re-think what he values in a player.

    His coach didn’t walk in add 20% more wins, which would also be a false positive with this group. Its ain’t the coach, its the roster.

    Ference struggled mightily when slotted above his ability, which should add clarity to his 1LHD search (older Dmen with rings doesn’t mean you can slot them above their ability)

    The bottom 6 still has almost no hope of scoring day in and out, contrary to what MacT said he would change. This to me means its open season on those roster spots.

    I think the Oilers stinking out the joint this year adds a clarity to this process that wouldn’t exist had they had a middling improvement to 21st or so.

    It’s pretty bloody clear what the team lacks, and that might not be so in the other universe.

    And they’ll get another nice asset with a probable top 4 pick.

    Its the last year that his can happen, and this summer more than any other will spell the direction this team will go.

    I agree that there will be massive roster turnover this summer, including one trade where we all go “MacT traded “X”!”

    I’m giddy with anticipation.

    There is a lot of peril and pitfalls in what MacT has to do this summer.

    I really hope he does well, I want to keep cheering for this team.

  18. speeds says:

    Let me preface this by saying that I was wrong on the Perron trade; I understood the thinking behind the deal, but I thought the Oilers overpaid by adding the 2nd in the deal. I still kind of think that even though the deal has worked out very well to this point.

    My issues with the deal at the time were (as I recall):

    (1) Perron’s injury history. I’m not a doctor, so obviously there are serious limits to anything I’d have to say about concussions, but a chance at reoccurance was one of the reasons I was hesitant about the deal. That hasn’t happened this year, may not happen at all. But, if Perron gets a concussion in game 13 of next season, from my understanding the chances he misses 40 games are better than those of a player with a cleaner track record re: concussions.

    (2) contract status – Perron had 3 years left on his contract at a 3.8M cap hit, Paajarvi was an RFA (later signed a 2 year deal with a 1.2M cap hit contract) with 4 years prior to UFA. Both were projected to be good value for the money, Perron has been better value IMO.

    (3) cycle of the team/age of the players – Perron is definitely not old, but Paajarvi is younger. I’m not sure we can ever expect Paajarvi to be as good as Perron, but at the time of the deal I believe I was thinking that EDM might have been better served retaining Paajarvi as Paajarvi might fit better with the F group going forward into the teams contention window. I think that argument is weaker now that we’ve seen how Perron has fit it, but at the same time when Perron’s deal is over in two years he’ll be a UFA and potentially leave before the team hits its peak while Paajarvi will be an RFA in summer 2015 and could theoretically be signed to a longer term extension at that time. Doesn’t mean Perron will definitely leave, or that Paajarvi definitely would have signed past UFA age to stay in EDM, just musing – of the two, probably more likely Perron would leave than that Paajarvi would have, once both hit UFA, but that is speculation from an outsider.

    I do think the Perron trade was a good deal, and that it has worked out for the better for EDM so far. But whether the trade worked out well in year one was never the most important part of the deal, for me. It will be interesting to track going forward and see if our thoughts are the same in each of the next 3 summers.

  19. Andy P says:

    flyfish1168: I agree with you
    As the season and each media interview went you can see he needs help.I would like an Nhl experienced coach, so what if eakins feel threatened by it, plus 2 new assistants. I don’t feel bucky and smith needs to go. They have been here to long and their track record has been poor.

    Bucky and Smith don’t need to go because they have been here too long and their track record has been poor? I’m hoping that is a typo :)

  20. Woodguy says:

    Ducey,

    So Petry leads the team in hits by a considerable margain. I expect Gregor doesn’t know that

    That was pointed out to Gregor on twitter.

    Now his hobby horse with Petry is give-aways.

    So the NHL leaders in give-aways was pointed out to him:
    Erik Karlsson
    Niklas Hjalmarsson
    Taylor Hall
    Joe Thornton
    Phil Kessel
    Jeff Petry
    Drew Doughty
    P.K. Subban
    Alex Goligoski
    Jacob Trouba
    Andrei Markov
    Justin Williams
    Ryan Getzlaf
    Dustin Byfuglien
    Morgan Rielly
    Slava Voynov
    Cody Franson
    Duncan Keith
    Milan Lucic
    Jason Demers

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSASALL&sort=giveaways&viewName=rtssPlayerStats

    Then he just said Petry wasn’t as good as those other guys who can cover their mistakes.

    You can’t move some people off a narrative, even when you show them evidence that is contrary to their assertion.

  21. regwald says:

    Woodguy,

    Thanks Woodguy. Thought it was pretty impressive that two of the top undrafted 20yr olds decided that Edmonton was for them. Maybe they see all the holes in the line up we do. lol

  22. flyfish1168 says:

    Andy P: Bucky and Smith don’t need to go because they have been here too long and their track record has been poor? I’m hoping that is a typo

    Yes arthritic fingers and new tablet with spell correct doesn’t help. I believe I have corrected it now. Thanks

    I want them gone and replaced

  23. Gret99zky says:

    The risk of signing Smyth for another year:

    Will they keep him down on the 4th line? Will they pay him 4th line money?

    He could make a fine fourth liner but because Oilers he will likely play 3rd line and be moved up to second line from time to time.

    And PP and PK and we end up in the same pile we’ve been in since he left LA.

  24. sliderule says:

    Woodguy,

    You shouldn’t blame Gregor .
    He is just parroting what he hears from oiler contacts
    It was generally known by media guys that MPS was available.It was not popular to say that on this site but it was a fact.
    The media guys are just giving us an insight of oiler thinking.
    Scary isn’t it.

  25. Andy P says:

    Given that MacT will likely continue improving the roster over the offseason, the variable is what they do with the coaching staff. Does he replace the two assistants who have been the only constant in all or most of this team’s suckage, or does he doom us to endless season of watching these two crush the life of our talent?

    With everything else Edmonton lacks as a hockey magnet, the one factor that could make it easier for MacT to get the players he is looking for, reduce or remove the overpay for FA’s and get us deep into the playoffs, would be a coaching staff that gets the best out of their skilled players.

    Look at Detroit. Bankrupt, dirty, crime ridden city with a rotten core, but who wouldn’t want to play for those coaches or in that system?

  26. Andy P says:

    flyfish1168: Yes arthritic fingers and new tablet with spell correct doesn’t help. I believe I have corrected it now. Thanks

    I want them gone and replaced

    I know that feeling well.

  27. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    Woodguy,

    You shouldn’t blame Gregor .He is just parroting what he hears from oiler contacts
    It was generally known by media guys that MPS was available.It was not popular to say that on this site but it was a fact.
    The media guys are just giving us an insight of oiler thinking.
    Scary isn’t it.

    I think anyone can be traded if the end result is an upgrade to the roster.

    I just fear a downgrade due to faulty thinking, much like LT mentioned in the Gilbert for Nultz trade.

  28. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    Its interesting that Petry leads the Oilers in hits with 168.Second is Ference with 135 and Perron is third with 104.

    So Petry leads the team in hits by a considerable margain.I expect Gregor doesn’t know that.

    The fancy narrative always trumps the fancy stats (or, everyday stat in this case) with some guys. Gregor is open to a limited degree to empirical ideas, but not a lot.

    My guess is he’d say something like Cherry: those hits aren’t real hits because they are designed (like most college players) to gain possession of the puck, not to take the man and kill him.

    Cherry covered this last weekend:

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/coachs-corner/don-cherry-why-nobody-s-afraid-of-red-wings-1.2591595

  29. jdrevenge1 says:

    Gentlemen – Can we start the Kane to Oilers chatter… If we will it….

  30. flyfish1168 says:

    Is Yak going to play at all before the season ends? And is it just an excuse that he is injured?

  31. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy:
    I have a theory about this summer and it goes like this: Craig MacTavish is going to send a lot of players down the line.4

    Now that I had time to think about, this season is probably the best thing to have happened to MacT.

    There wasn’t a whole lot of false positives that can lead GMs to make terrible off season decisions.

    His big off season target fell down a hole in TOR and that might make him re-think what he values in a player.

    His coach didn’t walk in add 20% more wins, which would also be a false positive with this group.Its ain’t the coach, its the roster.

    Ference struggled mightily when slotted above his ability, which should add clarity to his 1LHD search (older Dmen with rings doesn’t mean you can slot them above their ability)

    The bottom 6 still has almost no hope of scoring day in and out, contrary to what MacT said he would change.This to me means its open season on those roster spots.

    I think the Oilers stinking out the joint this year adds a clarity to this process that wouldn’t exist had they had a middling improvement to 21st or so.

    It’s pretty bloody clear what the team lacks, and that might not be so in the other universe.

    And they’ll get another nice asset with a probable top 4 pick.

    Its the last year that his can happen, and this summer more than any other will spell the direction this team will go.

    I agree that there will be massive roster turnover this summer, including one trade where we all go “MacT traded “X”!”

    I’m giddy with anticipation.

    There is a lot of peril and pitfalls in what MacT has to do this summer.

    I really hope he does well, I want to keep cheering for this team.

    I think we’ll always disagree on whether it’s the coach or the roster, but I’m coming round to thinking that it’s a little of both. The problem I have here is that you don’t think that 21st or so would be an improvement. So is it play-offs or bust? What do you think defines quantifiable improvement, bearing in mind that statistics are what ultimately leads to league position. Because moving up the league is the aim here, not ‘moral’ victories were we outplay the opposition but still lose.

    I know we’re all scared of the same thing: Bum’s rush. We see some improvement, then the wheels fall off and it turns out things are actually worse than before, we we’re just riding unsustainable performances.

    At some point though, this team’s going to improve, and maybe we’ll just have to accept it without wondering what the catch is.

  32. su_dhillon says:

    Interesting discussion here in Vancouver the last 24 hours with the Gillis interview on local radio and I wonder if we wont here MacT say something similar one day. Gillis talked about chasing moving goal posts and getting back to core beliefs.

    The feeling here is that means valuing skill and procession again. Who knows if he will even be here after the summer but interesting nonetheless.

    When MacT signed Gagner in the offseason, what that signaled to me was that while Gagner didn’t have the ideal size to be Nuge’s #2, he did posess skill and that was what MacT valued most. He also discussed having players on the team last year where the best result you could hope for was non event and he needed to change that.

    Then they have the Gagner face smash, a terrible start and we see a steady stream of guys who didn’t really fit the player type we assumed Mactavish would target. Did Mactavish change his mind on the type of team he wants? If so I think he will regret it the same way Gillis has.

  33. godot10 says:

    The Perron deal was good in concept, but because the team went backwards instead of forwards, it is going to turn out to be a poor deal in hindsight because the hiring of Eakins set the rebuild and team back 2 full seasons,

    which means that Perron is likely gone or not be value for money because he will be too expensive just when the Oilers should be moving into the contending window. And that is exactly when Paajarvi would be hitting his stride as a value 2nd/3rd line winger who would have the size and skating ability to match up against anybody.

    Plus, there is that extremely high 2nd round draft pick.

  34. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    oliveoilers: Who said anything about being fair? So, do we qualify them and hope they come good? The flip side is they’re in somebody’s way. I guess that’s the risk.

    Well, you have to separate the things, no?

    One is a matter of evaluating a player’s history and the other is about deciding what to do about his future.

    You can acknowledge a player’s unfortunate history and also not re-new his contract.

    At any rate, I don’t think these 2 contracts will load the 50 man down.

    http://www.capgeek.com/oilers/reserve-list/

    a lot of those names are coming off shortly. There will be a good amount of room to give them one more year.

  35. admiralmark says:

    Prepare for one of the most boring slowed down hockey games of the season. This Phoenix team really knows how to make a game trudgingly difficult to watch. I think Jacque Lemaire would be proud of this team. My only hope is Hall and the rest of them can somehow force Phoenix to open the game up just a little bit? Because the last 2 games I’ve seen phoenix play was god awful as a fan.

  36. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    jdrevenge1:
    Gentlemen – Can we start the Kane to Oilers chatter… If we will it….

    If you are referring to the Lawless talk from last night… let’s be careful.

    He’s also the guy that tried recently to run Buff out of town:

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/time-to-dust-dustin-239005421.html

    mind you he wrote this just 3 months prior:

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/big-buff-worth-weight-in-gold-228579691.html?device=mobile

    think EDM’s manic, stupid media personalities.

    Is he reflecting Chevy’s actual thinking… maybe… and you certainly look into it… but remember that all markets have nutty writers pushing stupid crap.

  37. Caramel Obvious says:

    As a qualified defense of Gregor, I heard him say that Fraser had no place on the roster this week. Which just goes to show that he (Gregor) is the best of a terrible bunch. He sticks blindly to his ideas in the face of evidence like everyone else but then every once in a while the light shines through for him.

    I also wouldn’t take what Gregor, Spector, and Rishaug think as evidence of what the Oilers think. On the skill-size–toughness spectrum they are way further to the right than the Oilers. This is why Eakins has to humiliate them so often in press availabilities. They want him to be like them and he isn’t.

    So what Gregor thinks about Petry tells us nothing about what Eakins or MacT think about Petry.

  38. Andy P says:

    su_dhillon,

    Or did Katz provide MacT with some direction through KLowe?

  39. oliveoilers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Well, you have to separate the things, no?

    One is a matter of evaluating a player’s history and the other is about deciding what to do about his future.

    You can acknowledge a player’s unfortunate history and also not re-new his contract.

    At any rate, I don’t think these 2 contracts will load the 50 man down.

    http://www.capgeek.com/oilers/reserve-list/

    a lot of those names are coming off shortly. There will be a good amount of room to give them one more year.

    True dat. Give one a shot in the last chance saloon, because Mark Fraser. (If he’s an NHLer, so am I). Those new kids sure look hungry though.

  40. Woodguy says:

    Went to the WIN-PHX game on Tuesday.

    They didn’t look that good and I expected more from a team fighting for a playoff spot.

    OEL is just a sublime skater. He looks identical to Niedermeyer when skating up the ice with the puck. Same stride, same posture, just smooooooooth.

    Yandle reminded me a lot of Jultz. Takes a lot of chances jumping up and doesn’t exactly bust ass to get back. Luckily for him, PHX forwards never failed to cover for him.

    Doan looked old. Lots jam in puck battles, but can’t keep up to faster play anymore. Still smart and dirty though.

    Greiss was decent, but his pads are made of rubber and many shots rebounded into scoring areas. Oilers would be well advised to shoot from everywhere and have net front guy at all time.

    Also,

    The Oiler’s Corgi’s are slightly encouraging on the trip.

    They kept both ANA and SJS below their season average Home FF% and surpassed their own season average Road FF%.

    If you look at the match ups on extraskater, Eakins has been keeping Fraser/Belov away from anyone who can score, and that pair has been over 50% both nights.

    Unfortunately the flip side of that is that the other 4 Dmen and under siege all night.

    Given how they are playing, I think the Oilers have real chance tonight.

    Bet365 has EDM at +175. I think there is value there. I’d have them at about +145 or so.

    Go Oilers!!!

  41. Caramel Obvious says:

    godot10:
    The Perron deal was good in concept, but because the team went backwards instead of forwards, it is going to turn out to be a poor deal in hindsight because the hiring of Eakins set the rebuild and team back 2 full seasons,

    which means that Perron is likely gone or not be value for money because he will be too expensive just when the Oilers should be moving into the contending window.And that is exactly when Paajarvi would be hitting his stride as a value 2nd/3rd line winger who would have the size and skating ability to match up against anybody.

    Plus, there is that extremely high 2nd round draft pick.

    Good god man, it is is time to get a new white whale.

  42. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers,

    The problem I have here is that you don’t think that 21st or so would be an improvement.

    I do think that 21st would be an improvement, which is why I’m glad that it didn’t happen this year.

    Makes the roster holes look that much bigger and doesn’t gloss over the deficiencies in the roster.

  43. Ryan says:

    regwald:
    Didn’t geta chance to comment last night on the Barons post, but what do you think the Oilers were selling to some of the WHL top scorers ? They must see that the top 6 in Edmonton might be tough to crack.

    Do you think the sales pitch went something like, we are looking for some offensive upside in OKC and once you establish yourself, the Oilers need to fill out the middle of the roster in Edmonton. Hell, you will probably even get a chance on one of the top two lines every once and a while.

    What I am wondering, why Edmonton and not another team for specifically Winquist and Holmberg ?

    While both players have some nice whl boxcars, the Dan Hodgson effect is real. I’m not sure that teams were lined up for either one of these players.

  44. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy:
    oliveoilers,

    The problem I have here is that you don’t think that 21st or so would be an improvement.

    I do think that 21st would be an improvement, which is why I’m glad that it didn’t happen this year.

    Makes the roster holes look that much bigger and doesn’t gloss over the deficiencies in the roster.

    Ok, got it. Lot’s of brand new shiny toys this year! Plus a few pigs in lipstick, I shouldn’t wonder. But it does seem that MacT is nobody’s fool when it comes to chopping players he thinks aren’t with us. Damn Tambi!

  45. Bushed says:

    Lots of comments support Ference with the rationale that he is a much steadier player when he isn’t playing above his 3-4 role.

    Isn’t this also true for Petry?

    He isn’t perfect, but he’s developed well in a short time with little support around him, and he continues to improve. Let’s not give up on this guy too soon.

    I hated the Gilbert trade, and don’t want to see redux.

  46. flyfish1168 says:

    godot10:
    The Perron deal was good in concept, but because the team went backwards instead of forwards, it is going to turn out to be a poor deal in hindsight because the hiring of Eakins set the rebuild and team back 2 full seasons,

    which means that Perron is likely gone or not be value for money because he will be too expensive just when the Oilers should be moving into the contending window.And that is exactly when Paajarvi would be hitting his stride as a value 2nd/3rd line winger who would have the size and skating ability to match up against anybody.

    Plus, there is that extremely high 2nd round draft pick.

    Hopefully he will sign a cap friendly deal or fetch 1.50 to the dollar.

  47. Woodguy says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I heard him say that Fraser had no place on the roster this week. Which just goes to show that he (Gregor) is the best of a terrible bunch.

    Since Barnes stopped writing about sports Gregor is the best of the local MSM.

    I still give him a hard time on his dislike of Petry.

    I think its a classic case of not liking a player because it looks like he could be more, instead of liking him for what he is.

    I also think that was the core issue with the local MSM and Hemsky. He could look all world at times and not make the score sheet for 5 straight games at times.

    They wanted him to be more and disliked that he wasn’t (“doesn’t stay after practice and work on his game!!)

    That is the core reason why many fans/MSM turn on the best players on bad team.

    They are unhappy that they are not more, instead of being happy with what they are.

    That is also why they give bad players a pass like Jones.

    “He is what he is, and that’s ok”

    Except its not ok because inside of all that they lose the tune that everyone should be dancing to:

    “More good players, less bad players”

    They forget that and dance to:

    “The best players need to be better, the worse players are what they are”

  48. Andy P says:

    oliveoilers: I think we’ll always disagree on whether it’s the coach or the roster, but I’m coming round to thinking that it’s a little of both.The problem I have here is that you don’t think that 21st or so would be an improvement.So is it play-offs or bust?What do you think defines quantifiable improvement,bearing in mind that statistics are what ultimately leads to league position.Because moving up the league is the aim here, not ‘moral’ victories were we outplay the opposition but still lose.

    I know we’re all scared of the same thing:Bum’s rush.We see some improvement, then the wheels fall off and it turns out things are actually worse than before, we we’re just riding unsustainable performances.

    At some point though, this team’s going to improve, and maybe we’ll just have to accept it without wondering what the catch is.

    I’d suggest the problem is the coaching and the roster, one of them is being fixed, but the one will never take us to the promised land without the other.

    Our coaching problem reminds me of the story about the dog turd under the coffee table. Everybody knew there was a stink in the room, so they kept changing coffee tables, and all the other furniture, but the smell remained.

    Our stink doesn’t go until they remove the constant in the land of suck.

    Bucky was hired by MacT the year he left and has been here ever since. We’ve turned over the entire roster since he joined and our offense still stinks. With few exceptions good players seem to lose their scoring touch when they come here.

    Krueger was able to overcome some of this through his motivational skills, and won the highest percentage of games of any coach since MacT.

    The stink isn’t going to go away until they remove the turd under the table. Not that I am calling Bucky a turd, I loved watching him play, and he represented the kind of total commitment we want and need. But this many years of consiswtent failure in the face of everything else changing, has to represent overpowering evidence that the role of Offense coach is not the right fit for this person.

  49. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    Ducey,

    So Petry leads the team in hits by a considerable margain. I expect Gregor doesn’t know that

    That was pointed out to Gregor on twitter.

    Now his hobby horse with Petry is give-aways.

    So the NHL leaders in give-aways was pointed out to him:
    Erik Karlsson
    Niklas Hjalmarsson
    Taylor Hall
    Joe Thornton
    Phil Kessel
    Jeff Petry
    Drew Doughty
    P.K. Subban
    Alex Goligoski
    Jacob Trouba
    Andrei Markov
    Justin Williams
    Ryan Getzlaf
    Dustin Byfuglien
    Morgan Rielly
    Slava Voynov
    Cody Franson
    Duncan Keith
    Milan Lucic
    Jason Demers

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142ALLSASALL&sort=giveaways&viewName=rtssPlayerStats

    Then he just said Petry wasn’t as good as those other guys who can cover their mistakes.

    You can’t move some people off a narrative, even when you show them evidence that is contrary to their assertion.

    I don’t think Gregor is someone whose opinion is going to be altered in this fashion.

    My experience in these interactions is that if I can’t change their mind or at least influence their opinion, then their refusal to consider alternatives is certainly going to change my opinion of them.

  50. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    oliveoilers,

    The problem I have here is that you don’t think that 21st or so would be an improvement.

    I do think that 21st would be an improvement, which is why I’m glad that it didn’t happen this year.

    Makes the roster holes look that much bigger and doesn’t gloss over the deficiencies in the roster.

    Indeed, we keep hearing from a few commenters and the odd MSM guy that we’ve regressed this year based on our finish in the standings this year.

    If we have regressed, it is by an exceptionally marginal degree… yet the narrative produced by standings is powerful. A 21st finish by a disaster of a team could really fuck up a GM’s thinking.

  51. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Caramel Obvious,

    I heard him say that Fraser had no place on the roster this week. Which just goes to show that he (Gregor) is the best of a terrible bunch.

    Since Barnes stopped writing about sports Gregor is the best of the local MSM.

    I still give him a hard time on his dislike of Petry.

    I think its a classic case of not liking a player because it looks like he could be more, instead of liking him for what he is.

    I also think that was the core issue with the local MSM and Hemsky.He could look all world at times and not make the score sheet for 5 straight games at times.

    They wanted him to be more and disliked that he wasn’t (“doesn’t stay after practice and work on his game!!)

    That is the core reason why many fans/MSM turn on the best players on bad team.

    They are unhappy that they are not more, instead of being happy with what they are.

    That is also why they give bad players a pass like Jones.

    “He is what he is, and that’s ok”

    Except its not ok because inside of all that they lose the tune that everyone should be dancing to:

    “More good players, less bad players”

    They forget that and dance to:

    “The best players need to be better, the worse players are what they are”

    this is just great. just great insight into narrative based thinking.

  52. flyfish1168 says:

    Andy P: I’d suggest the problem is the coaching and the roster, one of them is being fixed, but the one will never take us to the promised land without the other.

    Our coaching problem reminds me of the story about the dog turd under the coffee table. Everybody knew there was a stink in the room, so they kept changing coffee tables, and all the other furniture, but the smell remained.

    Our stink doesn’t go until they remove the constant in the land of suck.

    Bucky was hired by MacT the year he left and has been here ever since. We’ve turned over the entire roster since he joined and our offense still stinks. With few exceptions good players seem to lose their scoring touch when they come here.

    Krueger was able to overcome some of this through his motivational skills, and won the highest percentage of games of any coach since MacT.

    The stink isn’t going to go away until they remove the turd under the table. Not that I am calling Bucky a turd, I loved watching him play, and he represented the kind of total commitment we want and need. But this many years of consiswtent failure in the face of everything else changing, has to represent overpowering evidence that the role of Offense coach is not the right fit for this person.

    I love your analogy.

  53. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris: I don’t think Gregor is someone whose opinion is going to be altered in this fashion.

    My experience in these interactions is that if I can’t change their mind or at least influence their opinion, then their refusal to consider alternatives is certainly going to change my opinion of them.

    Have you ever fought with your wife?

    She makes some comment or other about something, maybe about you, and you fight it out hard. In the heat of the moment you just want to win or be louder. And, you probably in that moment think you are right, and maybe you are.

    Most times these events flit away from the mind. Occasionally something she says sticks in your brain and aggravates you… maybe it’s true?!

    I think you can hope that kind of thing will work with a Gregor kind of guy. In the moment he fights it out… but over time he turns it over in his head a few times and maybe re-thinks his position… he probably won’t acknowledge the source of his revision (may be subconscious)… but something has changed.

  54. RMGS says:

    Warranted criticism rained down on Tambellini like flies on sh¡t for his terrible roster moves. The results under his tenure spoke volumes.

    MacT has turned over half the roster and changed the head coach in his first year with abhorrent, traumatizing results, yet folks at best give him a pass and express faith in his ability to turn it around next year and at worst pass the buck onto other easy targets – Eakins, Lowe, or even dead-horse Tambellini.

    MacT is teflon-man.

    I want MacT to succeed for the sake of our beloved Oilers, but why are folks so quick to cut him (the GM iteration) so much slack after such a horrific season?

  55. Ducey says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Good god man, it is is time to get a new white whale.

    And therapy. Lots of therapy.

  56. Hammers says:

    Gret99zky:
    The risk of signing Smyth for another year:

    Will they keep him down on the 4th line?Will they pay him 4th line money?

    He could make a fine fourth liner but because Oilers he will likely play 3rd line and be moved up to second line from time to time.

    And PP and PK and we end up in the same pile we’ve been in since he left LA.

    Sign him but for a max of $ 1mill

  57. Ducey says:

    RMGS: Warranted criticism rained down on Tambellini like flies on sh¡t for his terrible roster moves. The results under his tenure spoke volumes.MacT has turned over half the roster and changed the head coach in his first year with abhorrent, traumatizing results, yet folks at best give him a pass and express faith in his ability to turn it around next year and at worst pass the buck onto other easy targets – Eakins, Lowe, or even dead-horse Tambellini.MacT is teflon-man.I want MacT to succeed for the sake of our beloved Oilers, but why are folks so quick to cut him (the GM iteration) so much slack after such a horrific season?

    Because some people can look past the win loss record and look at what MacT has said and done in a relatively short time. He is on the right track.

  58. jake70 says:

    Woodguy: I have a theory about this summer and it goes like this: Craig MacTavish is going to send a lot of players down the line.4Now that I had time to think about, this season is probably the best thing to have happened to MacT.There wasn’t a whole lot of false positives that can lead GMs to make terrible off season decisions.His big off season target fell down a hole in TOR and that might make him re-think what he values in a player.His coach didn’t walk in add 20% more wins, which would also be a false positive with this group. Its ain’t the coach, its the roster.Ference struggled mightily when slotted above his ability, which should add clarity to his 1LHD search (older Dmen with rings doesn’t mean you can slot them above their ability)The bottom 6 still has almost no hope of scoring day in and out, contrary to what MacT said he would change. This to me means its open season on those roster spots.I think the Oilers stinking out the joint this year adds a clarity to this process that wouldn’t exist had they had a middling improvement to 21st or so.It’s pretty bloody clear what the team lacks, and that might not be so in the other universe. And they’ll get another nice asset with a probable top 4 pick.Its the last year that his can happen, and this summer more than any other will spell the direction this team will go.I agree that there will be massive roster turnover this summer, including one trade where we all go “MacT traded “X”!”I’m giddy with anticipation.There is a lot of peril and pitfalls in what MacT has to do this summer.I really hope he does well, I want to keep cheering for this team.

    Exellent post.

    How does it go – “geez we dodged one there didn’t we?”. Although the Eakins factor has to be in the calculus a little bit if you are MacT – if you buy into the idea of the regression of some players. I imagine the players will let him know about Eakins in their year-enders.

  59. TheOtherJohn says:

    regwald:
    Woodguy,

    Thanks Woodguy. Thought it was pretty impressive that two of the top undrafted 20yr olds decided that Edmonton was for them. Maybe they see all the holes in the line up we do. lol

    Reg

    How could they not see the holes?

  60. denny33 says:

    regwald,

    Do you think the sales pitch went something like, we are looking for some offensive upside in OKC and once you establish yourself, the Oilers need to fill out the middle of the roster in Edmonton. Hell, you will probably even get a chance on one of the top two lines every once and a while.
    What I am wondering, why Edmonton and not another team for specifically Winquist and Holmberg ?
    ***************************************************************************************************
    Sales Pitch – We are almost dead last, again. Outside of a few spots – this team is WIDE open for anyone showing some skill, passion and ability.

    Coin toss between Buffalo and Edmonton…

    Both are AB boys….

  61. Woodguy says:

    Bushed:
    Lots of comments support Ference with the rationale that he is a much steadier player when he isn’t playing above his 3-4 role.

    Isn’t this also true for Petry?

    He isn’t perfect, but he’s developed well in a short time with little support around him, and he continues to improve. Let’s not give up on this guy too soon.

    I hated the Gilbert trade, and don’t want to see redux.

    Petry on a 2nd pairing with another vet, or even Marincin, would be a nice steady Dman who makes the puck go the right way.

    Petry on a 1st pairing isn’t good.

    He’s had limited success with Smid in that spot (under Renney), but more often than not, he’s doesn’t win that battle.

    He *might* be ok on a 1st pair as the RH next to a Markov, but not without a player of that calibre.

    So, yes the problem with the Oilers is that every single Dman is slotted above their current NHL ability, and that includes Petry.

  62. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RMGS:
    Warranted criticism rained down on Tambellini like flies on sh¡t for his terrible roster moves.The results under his tenure spoke volumes.

    MacT has turned over half the roster and changed the head coach in his first year with abhorrent, traumatizing results, yet folks at best give him a pass and express faith in his ability to turn it around next year and at worst pass the buck onto other easy targets – Eakins, Lowe, or even dead-horse Tambellini.

    MacT is teflon-man.

    I want MacT to succeed for the sake of our beloved Oilers, but why are folks so quick to cut him (the GM iteration) so much slack after such a horrific season?

    I think MacT has gotten the mixed review he deserves for his limited tenure.

    If you’re reading a lot of unduly praise please bring it to my attn. I’d like to read that case.

  63. Hammers says:

    RMGS:
    Warranted criticism rained down on Tambellini like flies on sh¡t for his terrible roster moves.The results under his tenure spoke volumes.

    MacT has turned over half the roster and changed the head coach in his first year with abhorrent, traumatizing results, yet folks at best give him a pass and express faith in his ability to turn it around next year and at worst pass the buck onto other easy targets – Eakins, Lowe, or even dead-horse Tambellini.

    MacT is teflon-man.

    I want MacT to succeed for the sake of our beloved Oilers, but why are folks so quick to cut him (the GM iteration) so much slack after such a horrific season?

    Maybe because his trying to clean up 5 years of mistakes . When any GM of any sport has to dump 15 players or 1/3 of there group before the season starts you know you have a problem . (also see the Esks) Plus he has since changed over another 6-7 players and still needs to dump 8-10 more . That is nearly half of your signed 50 players./ It’s called Culture Shock .

  64. Caramel Obvious says:

    Woodguy:
    Caramel Obvious,

    I heard him say that Fraser had no place on the roster this week. Which just goes to show that he (Gregor) is the best of a terrible bunch.

    Since Barnes stopped writing about sports Gregor is the best of the local MSM.

    I still give him a hard time on his dislike of Petry.

    I think its a classic case of not liking a player because it looks like he could be more, instead of liking him for what he is.

    I also think that was the core issue with the local MSM and Hemsky.He could look all world at times and not make the score sheet for 5 straight games at times.

    They wanted him to be more and disliked that he wasn’t (“doesn’t stay after practice and work on his game!!)

    That is the core reason why many fans/MSM turn on the best players on bad team.

    They are unhappy that they are not more, instead of being happy with what they are.

    That is also why they give bad players a pass like Jones.

    “He is what he is, and that’s ok”

    Except its not ok because inside of all that they lose the tune that everyone should be dancing to:

    “More good players, less bad players”

    They forget that and dance to:

    “The best players need to be better, the worse players are what they are”

    This is exactly right. It is a longstanding phenomenon in sports. Bill James used to make this point in baseball all the time. It’s how bad teams remain bad. They keep getting rid of their good players thinking they are the problem.

  65. TheOtherJohn says:

    Stauffer said yesterday that he’d give Petry one more year to prove himself, that Petry/Marincin and Ference/Schultz will be a good top 4 and Oilers need to sign a veteran D to partner with Klefbom.

    If that is what the organization is actually thinking we will, yet again, miss the playoffs and will express surprise that our D was a wee bit weak

    “So, yes the problem with the Oilers is that every single Dman is slotted above their current NHL ability, and that includes Petry” Agree completely

  66. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    There are also cases with some individuals who, when faced with clear coherent and rationally based arguments that counter their belief or invested opinion, will simply double-down.

    In sports, and some other intangible facets of human nature, this tends to happen more than in other situations where a change in stance does not necessarily imply a loss of personal standing or pride.

    Also, your example of a spousal relationship, while bang on, doesn’t completely translate because an argument that I would have with someone like Gregor does not carry with it the understanding that there is more at stake in this relationship than winning an argument – and yes, I know very well that marriage often feels like that is ALL there is, but I’m drawing on perhaps more idealized marriages for that example. :)

    Probably best if we don’t use spousal debates as comparables for sports discussions. At least there is an outside chance a guy could win an argument on sports and I can only imagine the carnage that would ensue if a husband were to even attempt to show his wife a statistical proof of the validity of his position. He may immediately become the most pitiable wretch in the world.

    I once heard someone sum up household arguments with this logic: roughly speaking, he figured he had to be right about 50% of the time. Since he was never right at home that meant he HAD to always be right at work.

  67. bendelson says:

    regwald:
    Didn’t geta chance to comment last night on the Barons post, but what do you think the Oilers were selling to some of the WHL top scorers ? They must see that the top 6 in Edmonton might be tough to crack.

    Do you think the sales pitch went something like, we are looking for some offensive upside in OKC and once you establish yourself, the Oilers need to fill out the middle of the roster in Edmonton. Hell, you will probably even get a chance on one of the top two lines every once and a while.

    What I am wondering, why Edmonton and not another team for specifically Winquist and Holmberg ?

    Holmberg – Born in Sherwood Park
    Winquist – Born is St. Albert

    Coincidence?

  68. Woodguy says:

    RMGS:
    Warranted criticism rained down on Tambellini like flies on sh¡t for his terrible roster moves.The results under his tenure spoke volumes.

    MacT has turned over half the roster and changed the head coach in his first year with abhorrent, traumatizing results, yet folks at best give him a pass and express faith in his ability to turn it around next year and at worst pass the buck onto other easy targets – Eakins, Lowe, or even dead-horse Tambellini.

    MacT is teflon-man.

    I want MacT to succeed for the sake of our beloved Oilers, but why are folks so quick to cut him (the GM iteration) so much slack after such a horrific season?

    Because a lot of his moves were good.

    He’s only had the job one year.

    We need to see a lot of improvement next year, but its never good to judge a rookie on year.

    Be it player, coach and GM.

    Also,

    We want him to succeed quite badly and that colours things too.

  69. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy,

    Trading Petry only makes sense if he helps the D climb the proverbial ladder. Gilbert for Schultz was at best going to be a lateral move for a more defensive defenseman. That it didn’t turn out that way never surprised me.

    In this instance I don’t see MacTavish making that same move. If Petry goes it has to be for someone who is a better version of himself, even if only slightly.

  70. Woodguy says:

    jake70: Exellent post.

    How does it go – “geez we dodged one there didn’t we?”.Although the Eakins factor has to be in the calculus a little bit if you are MacT – if you buy into the idea of theregression of some players.I imagine the players will let him know about Eakins in their year-enders.

    I think Eakins has the makings of an excellent coach.

    This year taking the air out of the ego (as much as it can be taken out, HC in every sport have tons of ego, as they should) and adding some humble is a good thing for the future.

    If he stepped in and they went up to 21st or so, it may have reinforced some things that actually don’t work.

    Not worried about that this year.

  71. RexLibris says:

    bendelson: Holmberg – Born in Sherwood Park
    Winquist – Born is St. Albert

    Coincidence?

    They were both born in places beginning with the letter S! And both have 8 letters in their name! This is incredible!

    ;)

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

  72. Woodguy says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    This is exactly right. It is a longstanding phenomenon in sports. Bill James used to make this point in baseball all the time. It’s how bad teams remain bad. They keep getting rid of their good players thinking they are the problem.

    Good thing the Oilers didn’t trade a player that went on to score 12pts in 14gms with his new team eh?

    Wait a minute!!!

  73. regwald says:

    bendelson: Holmberg – Born in Sherwood Park
    Winquist – Born is St. Albert

    Coincidence?

    That means they should know how bad this mgmt team is a be running screaming from the room trying to call Dale Tallon or Steve Yzerman for a nice beach contract.

  74. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    Caramel Obvious,

    This is exactly right. It is a longstanding phenomenon in sports. Bill James used to make this point in baseball all the time. It’s how bad teams remain bad. They keep getting rid of their good players thinking they are the problem.

    Good thing the Oilers didn’t trade a player that went on to score 12pts in 14gms with his new team eh?

    Wait a minute!!!

    I had this discussion at work the other day. My colleague is disgusted with how that turned out – Hemsky was his favourite player.

    My take on it was that it was better to move the player to somewhere he could thrive, and hopefully make a case for himself to earn a big contract this summer, and get at least something back in return than to have him play out the string here, struggle, and potentially reduce his value in the summer when he tries to sign on somewhere else.

    I’m not angry about them moving Hemsky. Would’ve been better if they could have done it three years ago but those shoulders weren’t good and fate blocked all the opportunities. The end result is MacTavish had an ultimatum and, at least in my opinion, did his best to serve both the player and the team.

    I’ll cheer for Hemsky no matter where he plays (save Vancouver or Calgary, and god help me maybe even then). But I don’t begrudge MacTavish for making the deal he did.

  75. oliveoilers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Indeed, we keep hearing from a few commenters and the odd MSM guy that we’ve regressed this year based on our finish in the standings this year.

    If we have regressed, it is by an exceptionally marginal degree… yet the narrative produced by standings is powerful. A 21st finish by a disaster of a team could really fuck up a GM’s thinking.

    The question I’m posing though is: When and WHO decides if we’ve improved, should we finish 16-21st next season and by what criteria? We’ve gone down this road before, the debate of the relevancy of league standings versus improvements in advanced stats. And the reality is that league standings are the definition benchmark of success in nearly every sport. They’re what get you PAID. Very tangible and easily understood by the masses, too. We also can’t just ignore numbers because they do don’t fit with our theory of how things should be. Look up the history of Scurvy for proof of that!

    In a way, it’s an mutation of the maxim “the ends justifies the means.” Would you rather the team play shite, but somehow eek out victories (TO, I’m looking at you!) or are moral victories enough to keep the fans flocking back? (Us!) What about the “fuck up the GM’s thinking?” I don’t think these are the kind of guys that go in for second guessing. Senior executives usually have unbelievable courage of their convictions, dontcha Brian Burke?

    I agree totally that this year, by all that is measurable, is a terrible team. Last year’s too. Under Tambi, if we’d finished 21st, I’d be worried. Under MacT though, he’s more of a “what have you done for me lately guy?” I think he’ll look long and hard even if we get play-offs. (Oh, happy day!)

  76. VanOil says:

    I would trade Schultz before Petry. I do not hate Schultz and hope he achieves his promise but it might be a long and expensive wait for the Oilers.

    Two Schultz deals I would consider:

    Schultz for Kulikov + 2nd. Kulikov has a lower offensive upside but a higher defensive upside. Likely to cost less in Cap space.

    Schultz for Campbell + 2nd + Prospect. Campbell is old and expensive but would give Oilers 2 years of a true 1D letting the kids develop. Ideally you would acquire him and have him mentor Schultz but I don’t know if you can pull that off cap wise.

  77. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris: Stauffer said yesterday that he’d give Petry one more year to prove himself, that Petry/Marincin and Ference/Schultz will be a good top 4 and Oilers need to sign a veteran D to partner with Klefbom.

    I agree.

    I fear MacT’s love of tough vets.

    Many fans of PIT fear the team re-signing Orpik.

    He’s a drag on everyone’s shot attempt differential and those types of players have value in MacT’s eyes (see: Ference, Andrew)

    I fear MacT’s love of Orpik types.

    If he does trade Petry, I think he has a good chance of losing the trade.

    I hope I’m wrong.

  78. oliveoilers says:

    RexLibris:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    There are also cases with some individuals who, when faced with clear coherent and rationally based arguments that counter their belief or invested opinion, will simply double-down.

    In sports, and some other intangible facets of human nature, this tends to happen more than in other situations where a change in stance does not necessarily imply a loss of personal standing or pride.

    Also, your example of a spousal relationship, while bang on, doesn’t completely translate because an argument that I would have with someone like Gregor does not carry with it the understanding that there is more at stake in this relationship than winning an argument –and yes, I know very well that marriage often feels like that is ALL there is, but I’m drawing on perhaps more idealized marriages for that example.

    Probably best if we don’t use spousal debates as comparables for sports discussions. At least there is an outside chance a guy could win an argument on sports and I can only imagine the carnage that would ensue if a husband were to even attempt to show his wife a statistical proof of the validity of his position. He may immediately become the most pitiable wretch in the world.

    I once heard someone sum up household arguments with this logic: roughly speaking, he figured he had to be right about 50% of the time. Since he was never right at home that meant he HAD to always be right at work.

    In my house, I wear the trousers! What’s that dear? The brown ones? Not the jeans? Yes, dear.

  79. Woodguy says:

    RexLibris,

    If Hemsky wanted to leave, then I’m good.

    In his exit interviews he said that management never called to discuss a new contract.

    That’s not good.

    I don’t know about the internal culture of the team, but I do know about the external results and the Oilers are not a team that can afford to lose good players.

  80. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    If you are referring to the Lawless talk from last night… let’s be careful.
    He’s also the guy that tried recently to run Buff out of town:
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/time-to-dust-dustin-239005421.html
    mind you he wrote this just 3 months prior:
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/big-buff-worth-weight-in-gold-228579691.html?device=mobile
    think EDM’s manic, stupid media personalities.
    Is he reflecting Chevy’s actual thinking… maybe… and you certainly look into it… but remember that all markets have nutty writers pushing stupid crap
    *************************************************************************
    Wow – the venom in here against the MSM is palpable.

    Please explain what ‘stupid crap’ he is pushing?

  81. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    Cool scouting report….

    What was your take on the Jets? How many Jets jersey’s were in the arena.

  82. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Indeed, we keep hearing from a few commenters and the odd MSM guy that we’ve regressed this year based on our finish in the standings this year.
    ********************************************************************************
    The contrast to this is a great many people kept trying over and over to paint a ‘progress’ picture for us this year….

  83. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy:
    RexLibris,

    If Hemsky wanted to leave, then I’m good.

    In his exit interviews he said that management never called to discuss a new contract.

    That’s not good.

    I don’t know about the internal culture of the team, but I do know about the external results and the Oilers are not a team that can afford to lose good players.

    I was under the impression that he was also more or less committed to closing the page on the Oilers and moving on this summer.

    MacTavish has known Hemsky since he came into the league. I have a difficult time believing that he hadn’t already spoken to him back in the summer and likely on and off throughout the season about which direction the team was headed.

    True, the Oilers can’t afford to lose good players, but sometimes you do regardless. In that case I think it is best to do right by the player and not take a bath on the deal.

    Let’s compare Feaster’s trading of Iginla last season as a far more dramatic example: did Feaster have any choice in whether or not to trade him? Realistically, no. Did he have any leverage? As it turns out, not really. Iginla was given the options and chose the deal that gave him the best chance to win even though it greatly reduced the return to the Flames. That the Flames could have and probably ought to have taken the deal rumoured to be out there a few years earlier of Iginla for B. Schenn and a pick/prospect is obvious in hindsight, but as much as I dislike Feaster, what choice did he have?

    Now his Bouwmeester deal was a bad move all around and ill-timed. That is the kind of deal I hope MacTavish avoids, and to his credit he has resisted such a move – the closest in my mind was the Gagner to LA rumblings we heard a few months back.

  84. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris,

    I hear you on doubling down and marriages.

    Still think it is possible. I’ve had arguments with people that wormed at me later because I’ve suspected I was wrong.

    But, yea… doubling down is really damn common when faced with push-back.

  85. Caramel Obvious says:

    Woodguy: I agree.

    I fear MacT’s love of tough vets.

    Many fans of PIT fear the team re-signing Orpik.

    He’s a drag on everyone’s shot attempt differential and those types of players have value in MacT’s eyes (see: Ference, Andrew)

    I fear MacT’s love of Orpik types.

    If he does trade Petry, I think he has a good chance of losing the trade.

    I hope I’m wrong.

    I agree. This is my worry.

    However, I was also worried about Cam Ward. And instead we got Scrivens and Fasth.

    I was also worried Arcobello would be let go. He wasn’t.

    No general manage is ever going to do things exactly the way I, or you, would do it. I just want someone who makes some good moves and meanwhile isn’t going to burn the place down like Snow did this year (I think this was the single worst year a general manager has ever had–unthinkably bad), or to allow the roster to rot away like Tambellini did year after year.

    It may be a low bar but I think it is a reasonable one.

  86. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    oliveoilers: The question I’m posing though is:When and WHO decides if we’ve improved, should we finish 16-21st next season and by what criteria?We’ve gone down this road before, the debate of the relevancy of league standings versus improvements in advanced stats.And the reality is that league standings are the definition benchmark of success in nearly every sport.They’re what get you PAID.Very tangible and easily understood by the masses, too.We also can’t just ignore numbers because they do don’t fit with our theory of how things should be.Look up the history of Scurvy for proof of that!

    In a way, it’s an mutation of the maxim “the ends justifies the means.”Would you rather the team play shite, but somehow eek out victories (TO, I’m looking at you!)or are moral victories enough to keep the fans flocking back?(Us!)What about the “fuck up the GM’s thinking?”I don’t think these are the kind of guys that go in for second guessing.Senior executives usually have unbelievable courage of their convictions, dontcha Brian Burke?

    I agree totally that this year, by all that is measurable, is a terrible team.Last year’s too.Under Tambi, if we’d finished 21st, I’d be worried.Under MacT though, he’s more of a “what have you done for me lately guy?”I think he’ll look long and hard even if we get play-offs.(Oh, happy day!)

    The goals are pretty clear:

    we want true talent, sustainable, repeatable success.

    Lots of ways to get there. but, that’s what we want.

    We don’t want to lose, but have a great possession team. We don’t want to win despite being terrible.

  87. icecastles says:

    Shopping Cart: The Perron deal was good in concept, but because the team went backwards instead of forwards, it is going to turn out to be a poor deal in hindsight because the hiring of Eakins set the rebuild and team back 2 full seasons,

    I’ll ignore your typically convoluted logic and just say you should pick how many seasons you think Eakins set us back and stick with that. Then your narrative, if silly, will at least be consistent.

    A few weeks ago you said he had set us back a full year. Shortly after Christmas (or shortly before, I don’t recall), you were telling us he had somehow moved us back three (!) years. Maybe two years is the settled on middle ground?

  88. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: I agree.

    I fear MacT’s love of tough vets.

    Many fans of PIT fear the team re-signing Orpik.

    He’s a drag on everyone’s shot attempt differential and those types of players have value in MacT’s eyes (see: Ference, Andrew)

    I fear MacT’s love of Orpik types.

    If he does trade Petry, I think he has a good chance of losing the trade.

    I hope I’m wrong.

    My other fear is Andrew McDonald.

  89. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    denny33:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    If you are referring to the Lawless talk from last night… let’s be careful.
    He’s also the guy that tried recently to run Buff out of town:
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/time-to-dust-dustin-239005421.html
    mind you he wrote this just 3 months prior:
    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/big-buff-worth-weight-in-gold-228579691.html?device=mobile
    think EDM’s manic, stupid media personalities.
    Is he reflecting Chevy’s actual thinking… maybe… and you certainly look into it… but remember that all markets have nutty writers pushing stupid crap
    *************************************************************************
    Wow – the venom in here against the MSM is palpable.

    Please explain what ‘stupid crap’ he is pushing?

    Ummm… that Buff is the big glaring problem in WPG and the team would benefit simply by being rid of him regardless of any return at all… just 3 months after wildly singing his praises…

    what am I missing here… no, wait… what are you missing here?

  90. icecastles says:

    Woodguy: In his exit interviews he said that management never called to discuss a new contract.
    That’s not good.

    Is it? If they had all agreed earlier on that it was time to move on, why play the game and talk about something both sides knew wasn’t going to happen?

    I hear what you’re saying but I’m fully onside with Rex: it’s difficult to fathom MacT and Hemsky simply not communicating about this at all. this seems like one of those points (never calling to discuss a new contract) where it is easy to read far more in than is really the case.

  91. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    denny33:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Indeed, we keep hearing from a few commenters and the odd MSM guy that we’ve regressed this year based on our finish in the standings this year.
    ********************************************************************************
    The contrast to this is a great many people kept trying over and over to paint a ‘progress’ picture for us this year….

    There was some of that at the beginning of the season. But the conversation followed the results.

    But… that was a long time ago.

    If you find unduly warranted praise of MacT on here… have at her!

  92. LMHF#1 says:

    Worth it to take an offseason chance on this guy: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89967&encode=TRUE

    I was wondering where he went.

    Meanwhile…check out who is the points leader for Zug http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71793&encode=TRUE

  93. su_dhillon says:

    Woodguy: I agree.I fear MacT’s love of tough vets.Many fans of PIT fear the team re-signing Orpik.He’s a drag on everyone’s shot attempt differential and those types of players have value in MacT’s eyes (see: Ference, Andrew)I fear MacT’s love of Orpik types.If he does trade Petry, I think he has a good chance of losing the trade.I hope I’m wrong.

    Woodguy, this was sort of what I wondered in my post above, MacT sigining a bunch of tough vets that dont bring a lot of skill, doesnt that go against what he had laid out as his plan when he took over?

    I mean this team can certainly use some vets and some guys who are hard on the puck but I am beginning to doubt how useful that players they are going to target are going to be at playing hockey.

  94. Woodguy says:

    denny33:
    Woodguy,

    Cool scouting report….

    What was your take on the Jets? How many Jets jersey’s were in the arena.

    Jets were tired.

    Wheeler was the best Jet.

    Byfulsfsaosgin is wasted on the wing.

    Kane was very hot and cold.

    Trouba is the real deal.

    The rink was about 60% Jets jerseys.

    A big chunk of the Manitoba school districts were on spring break and they were all in Glendale.

  95. Woodguy says:

    icecastles: Is it? If they had all agreed earlier on that it was time to move on, why play the game and talk about something both sides knew wasn’t going to happen?

    I hear what you’re saying but I’m fully onside with Rex: it’s difficult to fathom MacT and Hemsky simply not communicating about this at all. this seems like one of those points (never calling to discuss a new contract) where it is easy to read far more in than is really the case.

    Perhaps.

    I don’t know.

    Hemsky was all smiles on his trade day, so you could see the relief.

  96. Woodguy says:

    su_dhillon: Woodguy, this was sort of what I wondered in my post above, MacT sigining a bunch of tough vets that dont bring a lot of skill, doesnt that go against what he had laid out as his plan when he took over?

    I mean this team can certainly use some vets andsome guys who are hard on the puck but I am beginning to doubt how useful that players they are going to target are going to be at playing hockey.

    That’s the big question.

    We’ll see this summer.

    It will probably be somewhat like last summer.

    We like most of it, but not all of it.

  97. icecastles says:

    Woodguy: Hemsky was all smiles on his trade day, so you could see the relief.

    Yup. The unfortunate thing is that it ever came to this. The good thing is that he’s finally thriving. If Hemsky were a movie he’d be Free Willy.

    (caveat: I’ve never actually seen Free Willy. but I’m glad Hemsky’s willy is finally free to conquer the mighty ocean)

  98. Woodguy says:

    LMHF#1:
    Worth it to take an offseason chance on this guy: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89967&encode=TRUE

    I was wondering where he went.

    Meanwhile…check out who is the points leader for Zug http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=71793&encode=TRUE

    I only want guys who were good in the NHL this year.

    Long shots are ok if they aren’t in the money positions.

    1/2C is a money spot.

  99. oliveoilers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: The goals are pretty clear:

    we want true talent, sustainable, repeatable success.

    Lots of ways to get there. but, that’s what we want.

    We don’t want to lose, but have a great possession team. We don’t want to win despite being terrible.

    Not quite what I was getting at. Define success.

  100. Woodguy says:

    Speaking of 2C…..

    CBJ is playing Dubinsky on the 3rd line with Atkinson and Calvert a lot.

    Most common line in the last 10 games: http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-combinations/columbus-blue-jackets/?team=columbus-blue-jackets&strength=EV&gametype=10

    I can see CBJ wanting to increase their offence and moving Jenner to soft 2nds C and having Anisimov play tough minutes 3rds.

    I bet Dubinksy can be got.

    Problem is that any scoring winger the Oilers have to give is a pretty big overpay for 1 year of Dubinsky.

    Hmmmmmmm…..

  101. oliveoilers says:

    icecastles,

    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26882664

    Saw this, thought you might appreciate it.

  102. Ducey says:

    Here is an article about why WASH should fire everyone and strip Ovenchicken of the C.

    I am not sure I agree, but there is a hilarious video of Ovi not backchecking called “Controller Disconnected” which is worth checking out.

    http://nhl.si.com/2014/04/03/alex-ovechkin-washington-capitals-captain/?eref=sihp

  103. icecastles says:

    oliveoilers:
    icecastles,

    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26882664

    Saw this, thought you might appreciate it.

    Woah, thanks for the link!

    Awwww, I didn’t hear that his bid had been rejected. I’ve got a couple pictures of him making the rounds on the Maidan and knew his “name” was in.

    Curiously, my girlfriend’s father was very deeply involved with Euromaidan (coordinating defense first of the field hospitals, then defense of the automaidan patrols and titushki hunts). We just discovered that his name is on the ballot for the presidential election. Could be someone else, but it’s a pretty uncommon surname. Needless to say, we are anxious to find out what’s up!!

  104. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I picture you now checking under your bed every night for “Andrew McDonalds”. ;)

  105. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers,

    Define success

    Improved goal differential that is not reliant on unsustainable high SV% or SH%.

    Everything else comes from this.

  106. Woodguy says:

    icecastles: Yup. The unfortunate thing is that it ever came to this. The good thing is that he’s finally thriving. If Hemsky were a movie he’d be Free Willy.

    (caveat: I’ve never actually seen Free Willy. but I’m glad Hemsky’s willy is finally free to conquer the mighty ocean)

    I want him to beat the piss out of the EC for 3 or so years so he’ll finally get his due.

  107. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    LMHF#1: Worth it to take an offseason chance on this guy: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=89967&encode=TRUE

    I liked him and Thoresen last year for the bottom of the roster. Akin to Raymond signings. Cheap deals to keep them in the NHL, with ability to play on the 3rd line if need be.

    Better bets than JJ, Jones, Gazdic, etc.

    That Finn Kontiola was another idea, but he didn’t have an out of his K deal apparently, maybe this year?

  108. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    oliveoilers: Not quite what I was getting at.Define success.

    I did:

    “we want true talent, sustainable, repeatable success.”

  109. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    oliveoilers,

    Define success

    Improved goal differential that is not reliant on unsustainable high SV% or SH%.

    Everything else comes from this.

    what he said.

  110. denny33 says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Ummm… that Buff is the big glaring problem in WPG and the team would benefit simply by being rid of him regardless of any return at all… just 3 months after wildly singing his praises…
    what am I missing here… no, wait… what are you missing here?
    ****************************************************************************
    Lawless is not running Dustin out of town.It was a simple suggestion

    Lawless: “The Winnipeg Jets need to move Dustin Byfuglien and get the **most** they can for him.

    Dustin’s play speaks for itself. He is still the most popular guy on the team and in the community.

    Noel, Maurice management fans – and yes – even the dreaded MSM – have come to very similar conclusions about Dustin.

    No need to sincle out MSM for their opinion…is there?

  111. RexLibris says:

    Woodguy: I want him to beat the piss out of the EC for 3 or so years so he’ll finally get his due.

    Seconded.

  112. Jon K says:

    What do people think of a Kane for Yakupov swap straight across? Is the value right? The Oilers lose a little in terms of a 1st overall for 5th overall, but win a little in terms of Kane having a little more size and grit, perceived team needs according to management.

    I wonder if there would be potential for an even larger shakeup trade between Winnipeg and Edmonton? Something around Gagner, Petry, and Yakupov?

    Food for thought.

  113. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    denny33: Lawless is not running Dustin out of town.It was a simple suggestion
    Lawless: “The Winnipeg Jets need to move Dustin Byfuglien and get the **most** they can for him.
    Dustin’s play speaks for itself. He is still the most popular guy on the team and in the community.
    Noel, Maurice management fans – and yes – even the dreaded MSM – have come to very similar conclusions about Dustin.
    No need to sincle out MSM for their opinion…is there?

    Addition by subtraction regarding one of your best players is not a simple suggestion. It is foolhardly link-bait BS based on bias.

    The fact that he changes his opinion on the player — an radically so — should tell you that his opinions aren’t exactly stable and may not be representative of much more than emotional handwringing.

    He’s pretty far from a guy I’d listen to regarding player analysis.

  114. tubes says:

    Woodguy:
    RexLibris,

    If Hemsky wanted to leave, then I’m good.

    In his exit interviews he said that management never called to discuss a new contract.

    That’s not good.

    I don’t know about the internal culture of the team, but I do know about the external results and the Oilers are not a team that can afford to lose good players.

    Truth is, they told him he was getting traded and that’s why they didn’t discuss contracts. He sold his freshly built home, took a nice big loss on it and later on MacT told him he wasn’t getting traded anymore. I’m not sure if it was no-takers or what, but Hemmer was not supposed to be here this year.

    A friend is pretty close with him.

    And OT, but Oilerz and all, Yakupov is supposedly one of the dumbest players out there. No hockey sense at all. His passes in practice are as hard and wild as it gets. Unbelievable one timer as we all know and great skills but doesn’t think the game well. Every time I hear LT talk about keeping Yakupov I kind of shrug because we might not have as good a player as “we” think. You can see that lack of hockey sense all over his game too. I’m not sure how much of this can be taught to the player and if we keep him, I sure hope it can be.

  115. icecastles says:

    Jon K: What do people think of a Kane for Yakupov swap straight across? Is the value right?

    I read this and thought you meant Pat Kane, and wondered what kind of drugs you were on.

    I’m not sure Evander Kane is someone the Oilers would consider. The two years he was there while I lived in Winnipeg, there was another story every week about problems with him and character is a big deal for Oilers management. I don’t think (self perceived) Rock Superstar Kane would do well under the microscope of Edmonton. Winnipeg has been hard enough on him, and they’re not nearly the jackals that the Edmonton fanbase is.

    (best fans in hockey, my ass)

  116. RexLibris says:

    Just read your Reinhart/RNH piece over at ON there LT.

    A very nice breakdown of comparisons.

    I’d take Reinhart in a heartbeat if he were available, but if they take Draisaitl I won’t have any issues with him either. One of those two, though, is what it really has to be in my opinion.

    Not sold on Ekblad and I just can’t shake the feeling that Bennett is not what this team needs.

  117. icecastles says:

    tubes: Truth is, they told him he was getting traded and that’s why they didn’t discuss contracts. He sold his freshly built home, took a nice big loss on it and MacT told him he wasn’t getting traded anymore. I’m not sure if it was no-takers or what, but Hemmer was not supposed to be here this year.
    A friend is pretty close with him.
    And OT, but Oilerz and all, Yakupov is supposedly one of the dumbest players out there. No hockey sense at all. His passes in practice are as hard and wild as it gets. Unbelievable one time as we all know and great skills but doesn’t think the game well. Every time I hear LT talk about keeping Yakupov I kind of shrug because we might not have as good a player as “we” think. You can see that lack of hockey sense all over his game too. I’m not sure how much of this can be taught to the player and if we keep him, I sure hope it can be.

    I have a really reliable source too. My roommate’s cousin’s uncle’s brother’s ex girlfriend’s sister says that Yak has bad body language and leaves the ice as soon as practice is over.

    Don’t lead into your posts with BS like “Fact is” if you’re going to follow it with a bunch of unsubstantiated gossip that we’re supposed to take at face value because you tell us you know a guy who knows a guy.

    Goddamnit.

    Edit: Here’s a site more suited to posts like the one above.

  118. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: I read this and thought you meant Pat Kane, and wondered what kind of drugs you were on.

    I’m not sure Evander Kane is someone the Oilers would consider. The two years he was there while I lived in Winnipeg, there was another story every week about problems with him and character is a big deal for Oilers management. I don’t think (self perceived) Rock Superstar Kane would do well under the microscope of Edmonton. Winnipeg has been hard enough on him, and they’re not nearly the jackals that the Edmonton fanbase is.

    (best fans in hockey, my ass)

    I think this kind of local media handwringing about hockey players has to be taken with a barrel of salt.

  119. Woodguy says:

    Jack Michaels ‏@EdmontonJack now
    Looks like Ference may give it a go tonight. Paired with Belov at morning skate.
    Expand

    Huh. I thought Ference was done for the year.

    Ference in for Fraser is good.

    Ference on the 3rd pairing is good.

  120. Bag of Pucks says:

    What MacT does with Petry and his contract will be a really good tell for us and his mgmt acumen. I have no doubt MacT is a strong hockey man. The jury’s still out for me on whether he’s a strong biz/cap guy.

    I’m absolutely fine with a player like Petry if he’s in the right spot on the depth chart. 4D looks about right. Appreciate it’s a different era, but those Islander dynasty teams had a lot of lanky D like this (Gord Lane, Ken Morrow, Steffan Persson). None of those guys were particularly big or mean, but they all moved the puck out quickly and smartly and worked well within the confines of their system.

    I think the reality is coaches have problems with players like Petry because a lot of his issues when they arise are ‘focus’ related. When Petry brain cramps, that will infuriate Eakins and MacT, particularly when it’s during a critical juncture of the game. Both Petry and Schultz have to find a way to better their focus at critical times. It’s particularly surprising with Petry given his Dad was a professional baseball pitcher!

    I think the primary reason the MSM and the lunchbucket fans don’t like Petry is he doesn’t stick up for team-mates in scrums. THAT is a huge culture issue. You’re trying to build a 1 for all and all for 1 belief system, and you have a player looking for the nearest exit whenever the rough stuff starts. What’s the old saying? Hockey reveals character? I think Petry has to show some championship calibre character to get mgmt on his side, particularly if he’s looking for a big contract. And no, I don’t expect him to fight. Paul Coffey was not expected to fight. Nor is Erik Karlsson now. But Petry does not engage AT ALL, to defend the crease, his goalie or his teammates. Whether we agree with it or not, mgmt/coaching will judge him on that.

  121. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I think this kind of local media handwringing about hockey players has to be taken with a barrel of salt.

    Absolutely agree. My point isn’t so much whether there’s fire behind the smoke or if he would be a good addition, just that I suspect Oilers brass would be hesitant to rake someone with the reputed baggage he brings. History says they don’t pursue him.

  122. Ducey says:

    tubes: Truth is, they told him he was getting traded and that’s why they didn’t discuss contracts. He sold his freshly built home, took a nice big loss on it and later on MacT told him he wasn’t getting traded anymore. I’m not sure if it was no-takers or what, but Hemmer was not supposed to be here this year.A friend is pretty close with him.And OT, but Oilerz and all, Yakupov is supposedly one of the dumbest players out there. No hockey sense at all. His passes in practice are as hard and wild as it gets. Unbelievable one timer as we all know and great skills but doesn’t think the game well. Every time I hear LT talk about keeping Yakupov I kind of shrug because we might not have as good a player as “we” think. You can see that lack of hockey sense all over his game too. I’m not sure how much of this can be taught to the player and if we keep him, I sure hope it can be.

    I call BS on this. I know exactly where Hemsky’s house is and he has not sold it. In fact he has mentioned he may hang onto it.

  123. Ducey says:

    Woodguy: Jack Michaels ‏@EdmontonJack nowLooks like Ference may give it a go tonight. Paired with Belov at morning skate.ExpandHuh. I thought Ference was done for the year.Ference in for Fraser is good.Ference on the 3rd pairing is good.

    With one boob, not so good.

    Whats the deal with Musil? Couldn’t they bring him up on an emergency basis?

  124. icecastles says:

    Ducey: I know exactly where Hemsky’s house is

    Let’s go burn his furniture! (Wait that did actually happen, right? Maybe Tubes knows a guy who can tell us)

  125. Lois Lowe says:

    Why wasn’t I informed that it was a cetacean themed day here?

  126. oliveoilers says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I did:

    “we want true talent, sustainable, repeatable success.”

    Mate, sorry if I offended you. It was an innocently asked, non-trolling question. Not every one asked need be taken that I’m trying to waste your precious time. You could have just ignored it. My POV is that success for this team next year would be in the 16th to 21st place range and that that success would come FROM what WG said. I respect your and WG’s opinion that this may skew the GM’s perception of the true state of his team, hence my respectfully worded question about your opinion of what success is. I get the feeling though success is whatever you decide it should be on any given day with some numbers thrown in when they match, but if they don’t it’s luck.

  127. Bag of Pucks says:

    Out of curiosity, is this surprising to anyone?

    Jeff Petry
    6′ 3” 200lb

    Kevin Bieksa
    6’1” 198 lbs

    I think you’d be very hard pressed to make an argument that Petry plays with an edge like Bieksa.

    You’re right WG, this is what frustrates fans/media. They don’t look at Petry for what he is. They look at what he could be.

    I’ve seen Petry good on those odd occasions when he does decide to play with an edge. But the difference in these two players is ‘polar’ Bieksa LIVES for the rough stuff. Yup, it’s the old eye gleam. Petry, well he’s looking for a safe place on the bench.

    That’s never going to change for JP, so Oiler mgmt are going to have to decide whether they value skill at the expense of the intangibles, and if they do, what they’re willing to pay for it.

    This should be interesting.

  128. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: Huh. I thought Ference was done for the year.

    I think his exact wording was “week to week” so basically the rest of the year.

    I have no idea if he’d be rushing him, but I can’t understand why he’d force it if there was any question.

    icecastles: Absolutely agree. My point isn’t so much whether there’s fire behind the smoke or if he would be a good addition, just that I suspect Oilers brass would be hesitant to rake someone with the reputed baggage he brings. History says they don’t pursue him.

    I see where you are coming from now. we mostly thought that last year with grabo too.

    then the Bryz thing happened… so… I just don’t know.

    oliveoilers: Mate, sorry if I offended you.It was an innocently asked, non-trolling question.Not every one asked need be taken that I’m trying to waste your precious time.You could have just ignored it.My POV is that success for this team next year would be in the 16th to 21st place range and that that success would come FROM what WG said.I respect your and WG’s opinion that this may skew the GM’s perception of the true state of his team, hence my respectfully worded question about your opinion of what success is.I get the feeling though success is whatever you decide it should be on any given day with some numbers thrown in when they match, but if they don’t it’s luck.

    I have no idea what your end part is about.

    I wasn’t being snippy with you.

    If you need a more elaborate answer that isn’t numbers focused: I would define success as a team like SJS or the Hawks at the high end. Teams that are good and consistently so and their strength translates into wins, lots of them.

    I don’t define success as a poor team that stumbles into the playoffs because hey the playoffs!

    I don’t just want to cheer for a team that wins. I want a team that wins and should win and should do it year in and year out.

  129. delooper says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    I don’t just want to cheer for a team that wins. I want a team that wins and should win and should do it year in and year out.

    That’s probably an unreasonable desire. Every team goes through down cycles. And there’s plenty of teams that win a lot, yet never do well in the playoffs.

  130. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Jack Michaels ‏@EdmontonJack 3m
    Ference will NOT play tonight. Dallas Eakins does not expect Yakupov to play again this season.

  131. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    delooper: That’s probably an unreasonable desire.Every team goes through down cycles. And there’s plenty of teams that win a lot, yet never do well in the playoffs.

    the question wasn’t to define reasonable, but to define success.

    If a team, say the Nucks, goes into a tail spin… that’s not success. If they don’t win everything in the playoffs, however, I wouldn’t call that failure.

    The nucks of the past decade or so are a good model of success.

  132. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: the question wasn’t to define reasonable, but to define success.

    “I don’t just want to cheer for a team that wins. I want a team that wins and should win and should do it year in and year out.”

    You implied ‘reasonable’ when you said this.

  133. godot10 says:

    RexLibris:
    Woodguy,

    Trading Petry only makes sense if he helps the D climb the proverbial ladder. Gilbert for Schultz was at best going to be a lateral move for a more defensive defenseman. That it didn’t turn out that way never surprised me.

    In this instance I don’t see MacTavish making that same move. If Petry goes it has to be for someone who is a better version of himself, even if only slightly.

    MacT traded Smid for far less than market value. He didn’t auction him off. Got a good ECHL goalie for him.

  134. godot10 says:

    VanOil:
    I would trade Schultz before Petry. I do not hate Schultz and hope he achieves his promise but it might be a long and expensive wait for the Oilers.

    Two Schultz deals I would consider:

    Schultz for Kulikov + 2nd. Kulikov has a lower offensive upside but a higher defensive upside. Likely to cost less in Cap space.

    Schultz for Campbell + 2nd + Prospect. Campbell is old and expensive but would give Oilers 2 years of a true 1D letting the kids develop. Ideally you would acquire him and have him mentor Schultz but I don’t know if you can pull that off cap wise.

    This summer is decision time on Petry. It is long contract time when you have to buy UFA years, or lose control of the player slowly in arbitration.

    It is NOT decision time on Schultz. One can go the transition contract route. The guy only has 120 games. It would be foolish not to wait till 200 games for a defensemen with such offensive skill. It took Rafalski and Campbell and Keith and Gardiner time. Schultz has been thrown into the deep end.

  135. Yeti says:

    godot10: MacT traded Smid for far less than market value. He didn’t auction him off. Got a good ECHL goalie for him.

    MacT got what he wanted for Smid. He specifically wanted that specific player rather than the abstract idea of ‘market value’. Whether he is an ‘ECHL goalie’ is to be determined, but MacT obviously felt differently and believed he was good value for Smid.

  136. RexLibris says:

    godot10: MacT traded Smid for far less than market value.He didn’t auction him off.Got a good ECHL goaliefor him.

    And then used that cap space to sign a much-needed goaltender for the team.

    There aren’t many in-season moves that can be viewed as direct progression unless you are a buyer at the deadline.

    He moved Smid, which surprised everyone, but he addressed some organizational depth and added Bryzgalov. Then he went and added Fasth and Scrivens after that.

    Could he have gotten more for Smid had he put him on the open market? Maybe. Other teams might have waited until the deadline which would mean MacTavish couldn’t make a move to bolster a crippled roster position until nearly the end of the season.

    His comments on Tambellini’s mistakes last season about not helping out the players with deals that were available make that course of (in)action highly unlikely.

    But moving Smid mid-season and moving Petry during the off-season are two different situations. This doesn’t even compare to the Horcoff deal because the team is under no cap constraints with Petry.

    Rather than rate every deal as a singular event I think it is incumbent upon fans to see roster moves like these on a continuum as a small series of events.

    The alternative is a sort of Zeno’s paradox cum zero-sum game where every single trade is either distinctly won or lost and overall improvement of a roster appears impossible.

  137. Andy P says:

    RMGS:
    Warranted criticism rained down on Tambellini like flies on sh¡t for his terrible roster moves.The results under his tenure spoke volumes.

    MacT has turned over half the roster and changed the head coach in his first year with abhorrent, traumatizing results, yet folks at best give him a pass and express faith in his ability to turn it around next year and at worst pass the buck onto other easy targets – Eakins, Lowe, or even dead-horse Tambellini.

    MacT is teflon-man.

    I want MacT to succeed for the sake of our beloved Oilers, but why are folks so quick to cut him (the GM iteration) so much slack after such a horrific season?

    Because, he had a multiple goalie collapse that he saw coming and tried to address, he hasn’t yet associated the decline of the team in his last year as coach with his hiring of Bucky as Assistant which carried through Quinn, Renney, Krueger and Eakins. Talk about a coffee table turd.

    MacT also had almost every one of his top players injured, with Hall failing as a C in the process. However his fail was not for lack of trying, he took on dozens of prospects from all over the wall, threw them against the wall and saw who sucked and who stuck. In the process he’s made some good pickups, as we have all seen, and few question whether he has improved the roster so far.

    Blame Bucky, a new NHL coach, a slew of injuries, and the roster he inherited, but this is not something we can fairly hang on MacT.

    Also, the win% is on the high end of Quinn and Renney, so while the optics have been frustrating, the facts are that in spite of all the setbacks we are no worse than Renney and Quinn but short of how Krueger did.

    Given that Bucky stayed, I would suspect that Krueger would have been dumped this year anyways, what with all of the above occurences so in fact the situation is more of the same because the core problem is more of the same.

    fwiw.

  138. Caramel Obvious says:

    Character issues aside Kane is a good buy low candidate. Good possession numbers whose points are reduced by low on-ice shooting percentage and very few second assists.

    That said, Kane is starting from a pretty good reputation and he’d only be a good target if his value had really fallen a la Gagner.

    The mystery to me is why guys like Byfuglien and Burns are being played at forward. It strikes me as an incredible waste. But Maclean is a good coach and if he thinks it is worth doing …..

    That aside, trading for Byfuglien would be great, great, great because I think he is great, great, great.

  139. RexLibris says:

    godot10: MacT traded Smid for far less than market value.He didn’t auction him off.Got a good ECHL goaliefor him.

    One other point relating to your comment about an “ECHL goalie”. This is a trite reference. Brossoit plays in the ECHL this season.

    Had they traded Smid for Johnny Gaudreau would you then say “an NCAA forward”? Or would you perhaps qualify that by adding “undersized” to prove your point?

    If Brossoit is in the ECHL two or three years from now, then perhaps that title might be appropriate, but to use it as a defining feature of a player less than 80 games into his professional career is disingenuous.

  140. Doomoil says:

    Thank god Denny is here to save those poor helpless MSM.

  141. hoser313 says:

    5 things I want to see in the last 5 games:

    1. Anton Lander take two consecutive shifts at center.
    2. Somebody NOT named Fraser, Hendricks or Ference drop the gloves. Ideally for the first time in their NHL career. Gagner gets a pass. Nobody else.
    3. Sam Gagner pick up the third guy. (for the love of crying out loud). The guy seems to do everything else. It’s kind of a damn shame when you think about it.
    4. Another Anton Belov slap shot goal.
    5. A blow-out win over the not-so-mighty Canucks.

  142. Bag of Pucks says:

    It appears ‘assistant coaches’ has replaced ‘the 4th line’ as the obsession du jour.

    I eagerly await the ‘octane’ or ‘team diet’ as the next critical areas to fall under the microscope.

  143. Mr DeBakey says:

    RexLibris: One other point relating to your comment about an “ECHL goalie”. This is a trite reference. Brossoit plays in the ECHL this season.

    How about an NHL player for a not a NHL player?

    Do the words Magic Beans ring a bell?

  144. Woodguy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Eakins does not expect Yakupov to play again this season.

    Well fuck.

  145. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Eakins does not expect Yakupov to play again this season.

    Well fuck.

    What about his new contract…

    I imagine there’s going to be a lot said about it soon.

  146. Bag of Pucks says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: What about his new contract…

    I imagine there’s going to be a lot said about it soon.

    How about $100k a goal?

  147. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    For those of you interested in minor Baron moves, the Barons released Greg Miller back to Bakersfield and signed Lavoie to another PTO today (they had just released him the other day).

    I liked what I saw of Lavoie… but I wonder now if they have any plans of playing anyone but Khaira and Chase from the new group now.

  148. icecastles says:

    Shopping Cart: MacT traded Smid for far less than market value. He didn’t auction him off. Got a good ECHL goalie for him.

    What specific similar trade would you cite to show MacT got less than market value?

  149. TheOtherJohn says:

    Moving Smid had nothing to do with salary space. For Brzgalov or at all.

  150. icecastles says:

    Shopping Cart: It is NOT decision time on Schultz. One can go the transition contract route. The guy only has 120 games. It would be foolish not to wait till 200 games for a defensemen with such offensive skill. It took Rafalski and Campbell and Keith and Gardiner time. Schultz has been thrown into the deep end.

    this is a really good point. I just hope Schultz’ overall development hasnt’ been harmed in the long term by being moved so rapidly up the depth chart. It seems there are numerous examples where early promotion doesn’t just damage a player’s development in the short term but can have a long-term impact on their overall ceiling as an NHLer.

    It’s 100% speculation and I have no way of backing up the theory, but Gagner and Smid seem like two possible examples of this. RNH may end up being as well, but it’s far, far too early to make that call. Not that they end up as busts, but they are forced to compensate for their lack of size and experience in ways that ingrain playing styles or habits that are simply too difficult to overcome. Case in point: Gagner still plays like a small forward’s game, even though he’s now 200+ lbs.

  151. icecastles says:

    Bag of Pucks: It appears ‘assistant coaches’ has replaced ‘the 4th line’ as the obsession du jour.
    I eagerly await the ‘octane’ or ‘team diet’ as the next critical areas to fall under the microscope.

    They wear far too much clothing.

    (the Octane, not the assistant coaches)

    Incidentally, this is clearly the result of two things:

    1) Eakins is stubborn and incredibly stupid and not only has he made every player regress, but he has made the women of Edmonton uglier and the water taste funny.

    2) Gagner’s unwillingness to backcheck has had a direct effect on the Octane’s wardrobe. They should immediately trade him for pennies so we can complain about how MacT traded him for pennies and the Old boys club is ruining the ice quality at Rexall.

  152. Caramel Obvious says:

    Why, when icecastles quotes Godot does it say “shopping cart?”

  153. sumaclab says:

    .
    Petry vs Shultz? I trade JS. Philly covets a puck moving dman. The Oilers covet a big center. SC is a 3rd line guy in Philly. The emergence of Martin Marincin this season makes JS expendable.Add Eckblad onto the roster and your still no further ahead or behind imo.

    Gagner.Not at 10 cents on the dollar. Yakupov.Same. Not going to happen.

    if you get a SC you can move Gagner down the lineup and let him play a simpler game with less defensive responsibilities.

    The Oilers D needs 2 bridge defencmen. Petry imo is almost there in terms of taking the next step in his development. He is a lot closer than JS. just saying.

    MacTavish is no dummy. the only way he moves Eberle is for a package of players and picks. He is an integral part of the core of this team. I don’t see him moving. It would have to be a stupidly good offer to move him.

    Smyth. Less is more has benefited him this season.Even less next season is what we need him tobe. By that I mean less games. More press box. He needs to be the 13th forward 50 games of the year. The heart is willing but the body has enough mileage on it that it may decide it is not. just saying that Smyth has been effective most when his role has been limited.Still has knowledge to pass on and perhaps a future as an assistant coach after he decides its time tohang them up. ala Doug Weight.

    Lots of dead weight to shed this summer. Ryan Jones time is up. Eager. Larsen. Hamilton and so on and so forth. The recent signings for OKC signal a definite change also in organizational thinking towards development. Less veteran AHLers needed or wanted and more prospects wanted and signed.I like it. OKC is going to be a very young team next year.

    My hopes. Eberle 30. Hall 30. Perron 30. go get em boys.12 goals in 5 games.

  154. icecastles says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Why, when icecastles quotes Godot does it say “shopping cart?”

    A few days ago I said Godot’s rantings remind me of an old drunken homeless man yelling at his shopping cart.

    I’ve since decided that “Shopping Cart” is simply a much better name for him.

    (For the record, I love Godot to bits and hope he never leaves. There’s too much stupid here some days and not enough crazy. Godot is not stupid at all, just crazy. Which I like.)

  155. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    Why, when icecastles quotes Godot does it say “shopping cart?”

    he’s being a dick.

  156. DeadmanWaking says:

    Andy P
    The Only Constant

    Damn, I kinda wish that was your username. Here’s another tired expression:

    Correlation does not imply causation.

    It’s particularly oft repeated by female preying mantises. However, if the male mantis consults Prey’s Anatomy and discovers a dedicated copulatory ganglion, he might wish to ponder tagging on “except when it does”.

    The other constant is that we haven’t had an age-balanced roster since the onset of the seven-year plague. Relative impact:

    Roster structure: 10
    Assistant coaches: 1

    However, with the roster structure oscillating wildly between “humanly inconceivable” and “oh no, not again” those tried-and-true, steady-as-she-goes assistant coaches just might be the smoking gun.

  157. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    TheOtherJohn:
    Moving Smid had nothing to do with salary space. For Brzgalov or at all.

    This isn’t necessarily true. I mean, I think it is correct, but only necessarily how the Oilers viewed the situation.

    There were a few weird moves in the first 3rd of the season, including the Smid trade, that suggested they were pretty spooked about running the table on the bonuses and maybe carrying cap space over into next year.

    From my novice understanding of things, they looked to have plenty of room to add Bryz without worrying about it, but it seems unfair to suggest they weren’t concerned about it.

  158. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: he’s being a dick.

    Always the pinnacle of courtesy and social grace, that Rom.

    (Not that he’s actually WRONG. Just an odd person to point out dickishness.)

  159. TheOtherJohn says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: This isn’t necessarily true. I mean, I think it is correct, but only necessarily how the Oilers viewed the situation.

    There were a few weird moves in the first 3rd of the season, including the Smid trade, that suggested they were pretty spooked about running the table on the bonuses and maybe carrying cap space over into next year.

    From my novice understanding of things, they looked to have plenty of room to add Bryz without worrying about it, but it seems unfair to suggest they weren’t concerned about it.

    They did not need to move Smid’s 3.5mcap hit ($3.0m in salary) contract out to sign Bryz. No more, no less. Not wanting Smid on the roster because Ference/Belov/Larson all looked really good is an indictment of Oiler management but the statement:the Oil had to move Smid’s contract to sign Bryz…nope

    And Brossoit’s last 17 games in the ECHL .913 sv%

  160. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: Always the pinnacle of courtesy and social grace, that Rom.

    (Not that he’s actually WRONG. Just an odd person to point out dickishness.)

    haha exactly, right?

    we’re all jerks around here on occasion and though Godot is hilariously obtuse, you are clearly being a dick (not that there’s anything wrong with that).

  161. Lois Lowe says:

    Caramel Obvious,

    I much prefer Captain Ahab.

  162. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: we’re all jerks around here on occasion and though Godot is hilariously obtuse, you are clearly being a dick (not that there’s anything wrong with that).

    I like to think of this as the place I come to let my alter ego roam free. In real life, I’m only the SECOND most charming, clever and witty person around.

    My avatar though, is a genuine photo of me.

  163. Bag of Pucks says:

    DW, by your normally loquacious standards, that last post was a veritable tweet.

  164. Numenius says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: This isn’t necessarily true. I mean, I think it is correct, but only necessarily how the Oilers viewed the situation.

    There were a few weird moves in the first 3rd of the season, including the Smid trade, that suggested they were pretty spooked about running the table on the bonuses and maybe carrying cap space over into next year.

    From my novice understanding of things, they looked to have plenty of room to add Bryz without worrying about it, but it seems unfair to suggest they weren’t concerned about it.

    I agree with this.

    It’ll take some time to evaluate the Smid trade, but I think it’s safe to say that it was a key blow for the team this year. It was accompanied by improved goaltending (Bryz), but it led it led to a defensive core on absolute life support.

    I also seem to remember that team morale hit rock bottom after that and only began to recover with the arrival of Scrivens and Hendricks.

  165. RexLibris says:

    Picture of Tortorella up at TSN has him yelling off into the foreground holding up his index finger.

    I’ve looked at that thing half a dozen times now while surfing and I keep expecting to see him holding up a different finger.

    Every. Single. Time.

  166. rickithebear says:

    Trade Eberel?

    There are 37 players who are top 50 in goals and points.
    of those only 20 are are under 27 the avg mid point of career.
    26yr:
    Crosby
    Kessel
    Giroux
    Kopitar
    J. Neal
    25 yr:
    Kane
    Okposo
    Toews
    Perron
    Simmonds
    24 yr:
    Benn
    JVR
    Turris
    23 yr:
    Eberle
    O’ Rielly
    22yr:
    Seguin
    Hall
    21 yr:
    Landeskog
    Johansen

    Say no to crack!

  167. icecastles says:

    rickithebear,

    Simply mind-bending that Crosby is only 26. Jebus, what a career.

  168. book¡je says:

    Woodguy:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Eakins does not expect Yakupov to play again this season.

    Well fuck.

    There goes any hope of making the playoffs!

  169. denny33 says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I’m absolutely fine with a player like Petry if he’s in the right spot on the depth chart. 4D looks about right. Appreciate it’s a different era, but those Islander dynasty teams had a lot of lanky D like this (Gord Lane, Ken Morrow, Steffan Persson). None of those guys were particularly big or mean, but they all moved the puck out quickly and smartly and worked well within the confines of their system.
    ***************************************************************************************************
    Well said. Hard to imagine a discussion of trading one of our few competent D-men.

    Steffan Perrson – one of a number of NHL players ( at least 3 or 4 I think ) that simply quit hockey when learning of the fact they had been traded to Winnipeg.

    To humiliate my city even further – one time a 4th line player from Buffalo actually quit upon learning the news….

  170. RexLibris says:

    Flames fan tipped me off to this from ExtraSkater.

    “Momentum chart – Each team’s momentum based on hits, fights, timeouts, icings beat out, compete level, coaches’ death stares (est.), and jerseys thrown on ice.”

    Third one down, right after Win Expectancy chart.

    http://www.extraskater.com/game/2014-04-02-oilers-ducks

    Maybe Don Cherry will become a fan of fancystats yet.

  171. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    Few thoughts on Oilers:

    A. I think we should settle in on Klefbom remaining on the roster now and into next year. I think that decision may trim the hunt for defensive whales to one top pairing veteran – not two. It may ‘under power’ the team for next season, but I personally don’t think the goal is playoffs next year but substantial progression of the youth movement and trending to playoffs the following year. If that is the case, and you believe you have two solid young defenseman in Marincin and Klefbom no need to overweight the defense because you have Nurse feathering in the year after.

    B. I personally have lost faith in coach Eakins and the sample set is plenty ample for me. I will brace for the time being, but I fear we will be turfing this man 20 games into next year and creating mid-season turbulence unnecessarily. I have no doubt the concern on his capability and hold on the team has crept into upper management and they will be getting progressively trigger ready if the team is sliding early next year. They may feel the change in assistants is a cure all here, but I don’t. I hope I’m proven wrong and we have a complete change of results, but call me a skeptic on this one.

    C. If we can make such heart felt defenses on giving Yak time to find his game (i’m ok with it) – we should do the same with Lander. It is clear this is a player that takes some time to cement his fit into each higher echelon of play he reaches. I don’t see why that wouldn’t be the case here as he finds his footing in the NHL. He is a cerebral, honest player that plays a legit two-way game. Teams need men like this and when he gets more time and maturity I can certainly see him as a 40 point, responsible top nine player that helps teams go deep in the playoffs and he’ll be fully developed by the Oilers and be the right age. He has an unfettered history of being a leader. Let’s be patient here and not fixate too much on the points – he’s been MUCH less of a liability than Yak. He brings more to the team than strictly offense – and I include in that consideration to be an Oilers captain one day.

  172. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    TheOtherJohn: They did not need to move Smid’s 3.5mcap hit ($3.0m in salary) contract out to sign Bryz. No more, no less. Not wanting Smid on the roster because Ference/Belov/Larson all looked really good is an indictment of Oiler management but the statement:the Oil had to move Smid’s contract to sign Bryz…nope
    And Brossoit’s last 17 games in the ECHL .913 sv%

    the point is they may have felt like they needed to based on their concern over bonuses.

    whether they actually did or just felt like they did doesn’t matter. The point is, that would still be the reason for their action.

  173. Bag of Pucks says:

    denny33:

    Steffan Perrson – one of a number of NHL players ( at least 3 or 4 I think ) that simply quit hockey when learning of the fact they had been traded to Winnipeg.

    To humiliate my city even further – one time a 4th line player from Buffalo actually quit upon learning the news….

    To be fair, I’d probably quit too if my employer transferred me to Winnipeg.

    Drove through the Peg a couple years ago and did not ‘see it good’ Seems like urban renewal is definitely needed? As with most Canadian cities, the people are what make it a place worth visiting.

  174. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    icecastles: I like to think of this as the place I come to let my alter ego roam free. In real life, I’m only the SECOND most charming, clever and witty person around.

    My avatar though, is a genuine photo of me.

    I have no idea what your avatar is… what is it? flames?

  175. icecastles says:

    denny33: Steffan Perrson – one of a number of NHL players ( at least 3 or 4 I think ) that simply quit hockey when learning of the fact they had been traded to Winnipeg.
    To humiliate my city even further – one time a 4th line player from Buffalo actually quit upon learning the news….

    I thought this was urban legend. Is it an actual historical fact?

    Damn, I’ve lived in 7 provinces and 3 countries, and Winnipeg is actually one of the best cities I’ve lived in.

  176. oliveoilers says:

    I played that ‘Cards Against Humanity’ last weekend. They give you blank cards to write something suitably distasteful. One wag (not me) wrote “The Edmonton Oilers.” I suspect it was the one Flames fan in our midst.

  177. Ribs says:

    I must say, I hope Smyth comes back for another season as well. I had all but written him off after his poor showing most of last year and he’s proven he still has some fire in him.

  178. oliveoilers says:

    Ribs:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2c437a74799ff0eaee2008c64c519140?s=400&d=blank&r=G

    That’s awesome! I still have Ultra Magnus with about 20 more originals in a box in the shed for when my boys are old enough.

  179. Bag of Pucks says:

    Potential City Slogans.

    Toronto. Our mayor smokes crack.
    Vancouver. Are you kidding? You can’t afford to live here.
    Edmonton. We have….had great sports teams….Our mall is big
    Winnipeg. We’re better than Hamilton
    Montreal. Come for the poutine. Stay for the strippers.
    Calgary. Only 2 1/2 hours away from Edmonton
    OR
    Calgary. We dress up like cowboys once a year. Yes, it’s as lame as it sounds.

  180. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    Fun NHL weekend ahead!

    http://www.puckrant.com/slapshot/BREATHLESS

    St. Louis and Boston in a final would be one heck of a series. Some very big boys on the ice for that one and while the games may all end up 1-0 it’d probably be a roller-coaster ride.

  181. Pouzar says:

    rickithebear:
    Trade Eberel?

    There are 37 players who are top 50 in goals and points.
    of those only 20 are are under 27 the avg mid point of career.
    26yr:
    Crosby
    Kessel
    Giroux
    Kopitar
    J. Neal
    25 yr:
    Kane
    Okposo
    Toews
    Perron
    Simmonds
    24 yr:
    Benn
    JVR
    Turris
    23 yr:
    Eberle
    O’ Rielly
    22yr:
    Seguin
    Hall
    21 yr:
    Landeskog
    Johansen

    Say no to crack!

    Yes. Trade Eberle.

    1. He’s a product of Taylor Hall.
    2. We have Gagner.

  182. Pouzar says:

    Bag of Pucks: To be fair, I’d probably quit too if my employer transferred me to Winnipeg.

    Drove through the Peg a couple years ago and did not ‘see it good’ Seems like urban renewal is definitely needed? As with most Canadian cities, the people are what make it a place worth visiting.

    Ouch…how dare you!

  183. tcho says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Potential City Slogans.

    Toronto. Our mayor smokes crack.
    Vancouver. Are you kidding? You can’t afford to live here.
    Edmonton. We have….had great sports teams….Our mall is big
    Winnipeg. We’re better than Hamilton
    Montreal. Come for the poutine. Stay for the strippers.
    Calgary. Only 2 1/2 hours away from Edmonton
    OR
    Calgary. We dress up like cowboys once a year. Yes, it’s as lame as it sounds.

    Thanks – really enjoyed these.

  184. oliveoilers says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Potential City Slogans.

    Toronto. Our mayor smokes crack.
    Vancouver. Are you kidding? You can’t afford to live here.
    Edmonton. We have….had great sports teams….Our mall is big
    Winnipeg. We’re better than Hamilton
    Montreal. Come for the poutine. Stay for the strippers.
    Calgary. Only 2 1/2 hours away from Edmonton
    OR
    Calgary. We dress up like cowboys once a year. Yes, it’s as lame as it sounds.

    Ft McMurray. The Maritimes of the Prairies.

  185. Pouzar says:

    oliveoilers: Ft McMurray. The Maritimes of the Prairies.

    Thx for leaving Newfoundland out. :)

  186. RexLibris says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Potential City Slogans.

    Toronto. Our mayor smokes crack.
    Vancouver. Are you kidding? You can’t afford to live here.
    Edmonton. We have….had great sports teams….Our mall is big
    Winnipeg. We’re better than Hamilton
    Montreal. Come for the poutine. Stay for the strippers.
    Calgary. Only 2 1/2 hours away from Edmonton
    OR
    Calgary. We dress up like cowboys once a year. Yes, it’s as lame as it sounds.

    I was thinking..

    Toronto – They Don’t Call Us the Big Smoke for Nothing
    Vancouver – Bring Your Friends. It’ll Be A Riot.
    Calgary – Toronto West
    Winnipeg – Saskatchewan Is That-A-Way
    Edmonton – We’ve Got A Great Personality
    Regina – Last One Out, Turn Off the Lights

  187. icecastles says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I have no idea what your avatar is… what is it? flames?

    On the old Lowetide site you could click on the avatars and see them full size. I’ve really got to do a new one. It’s a Photoshop job I did when Magnus Paajarvi was first drafted. It’s the transformer Ultramagnus wearing Oilers chest and shoulder crests. Looked pretty good but completely unrecognizable at thumbnail size.

  188. icecastles says:

    oliveoilers: That’s awesome! I still have Ultra Magnus with about 20 more originals in a box in the shed for when my boys are old enough.

    Thanks!

    Though after I while I was more proud of the avatar than I was of the player… He never quite burst through a Calgary Flame with his fists of fury.

  189. icecastles says:

    Bag of Pucks: Calgary. We dress up like cowboys once a year. Yes, it’s as lame as it sounds.

    And the rest of the year they spend trying to convince everyone they’re not the hillbillies everyone takes them for. I’d call it an identity crisis, but Edmonton’s biggest annual fair (Klondike Days) is named for a historical event…. that took place 2500km away.

  190. fifthcartel says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: My other fear is Andrew McDonald.

    Luckily Philly will probably save MacT from that a la Clarkson and Toronto.

  191. Lois Lowe says:

    Calgary: Close to Banff
    Edmonton: Not As Cold As Everyone Says
    Vancouver: Come Enjoy Spring For 10 Months A Year
    Montreal: Our Politicians Are Corrupt, But They’re Better Than Rob Ford
    Winnipeg: Just Happy To Get Mentioned
    Regina: The Only City That Cares About The CFL
    Toronto: What’s More Embarrassing? The Leafs or Rob Ford
    Halifax: Canada Does Not Stop After Quebec!

  192. Pouzar says:

    Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC 58s
    Therrien is sitting Subban. No shifts since OTT made it 2-0.

  193. Ribs says:

    Pouzar:
    Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC58s
    Therrien is sitting Subban. No shifts since OTT made it 2-0.

    Since HEMSKY made it 2-0!

  194. icecastles says:

    Might have been mentioned already, but Larsen a healthy scratch tonight.

  195. icecastles says:

    Pouzar:
    Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC58s
    Therrien is sitting Subban. No shifts since OTT made it 2-0.

    Subban: 0:37 ice time, on the ice for both of the first goals against. Ouch.

  196. oliveoilers says:

    Pouzar: Thx for leaving Newfoundland out.

    Lol, just for you:

    Newfoundland: Where is everybody?

  197. Lowetide says:

    Pouzar:
    Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC58s
    Therrien is sitting Subban. No shifts since OTT made it 2-0.

    For the love of anything they hold dear, PLEASE BRING US PK SUBBAN!!!!!

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