RE 13-14 MARK ARCOBELLO: CYPRUS AVENUE

Mark Arcobello began his pro career on the lowest rung of show business. We didn’t really talk about him that first season, he got his first bit of mention in April of 2011. He’s worked hard for everything, and he’s far from making it. But by God this kid has some gumption and fire.

MARK ARCOBELLO 13-14

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.82 (4th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 2.65 (7th among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 10th toughest among regular forwards (3rd-4th line opp)
  • Qual Team: 5th best teammates among regular forwards (2nd line teammates)
  • Corsi Rel: 6.4 (3rd best among regular forwards)
  • Corsi for % 5×5: 48.1
  • Corsi for % Rel 5×5: +3.7
  • Zone Start: 47.7% (8th toughest among regular forwards)
  • Zone Finish: 39.5% (7th best among regular forwards)
  • Shots on goal/percentage:  70/5.7% (10th among F’s w/70 or more shots)
  • Boxcars: 41, 4-14-18
  • Plus Minus: -7 on a team that was -51

RE 13-14: 25, 2-6-8 .320

Actual: 41, 4-14-18 .439

  1. RE is good. Well, he was better than I thought he’d be, by quite a margin. The key here is GP. Arcobello earned 70 games, he got 41.
  2. Who’s fault was that? I’m not sure who to pin the early problems on. Sam Gagner came back too soon, and the coach is going to be loyal. But, what? 5-10 games in, there had to be alarm bells.
  3. So who do we blame? The coach, the GM, I don’t know. Gagner came back, he was not good and there’s a perfectly good player sitting there.
  4. Mistake? Damn straight. I don’t think there’s any way around it.
  5. Why didn’t you say something? Well, like the Oilers, I kept waiting. Surely Gagner would turn a corner. He never did.
  6. So it’s YOUR fault? Nope. That’s the fun of being a fan. Bitch, moan, shake fist.
  7. Still, it can’t be easy to bench your $4.8 million dollar center. Send him to OKC on a re-hab. Good lord man, he wasn’t close to ready. He had real and legit issues, and it had a major impact on 89 and the team.
  8. And Arcobello? Sent to the fourth line, which by now was a mess of Tambellini proportions.
  9. Why? Well, lots of reasons. Ryan Jones wasn’t effective, people were injured, Yakupov was not working in the top six, Hemsky wasn’t posting offense in the bottom six, hell man you saw it.
  10. When did you think he’d get a chance in the fall? MacT in summer: “When we signed him again to a contract I had a conversation with him and told him that he would get a look at training camp. He hasn’t played in an exhibition game or didn’t last year, so we’ll get a look and the rest will be up to him to prove to the coaching staff that he’s got enough game to warrant a bigger look as training camp goes by. I promised him that opportunity and we’re going to give it to him.
  11. They buggered up the RFA/UFA thing to, but covered their asses by signing him. It’s a sweet deal for the Oilers. I think Arcobello made the deal because he sees some daylight here, and a chance to win a career in the NHL.
  12. He’s made it now! No, God no. Arcobello has a window of opportunity, no more. There’s a chance he’s already played most of his NHL career, but another chance—and this is big—that he can hang around for years if he can make himself useful.
  13. Well I think he’s made it. I don’t, and I’ll bet you a 2-4 he doesn’t think he’s made it either.
  14. Like you’d know. You can tell a lot about a man just by looking at where he started and where he hangs his hat today. Mark Arcobello is 5 foot nothing, but he has determination, talent and desire. I never bet against these guys, especially the ones who make it this far.
  15. Why? Arcobello has overcome tremendous odds to get here, what can life possibly put in his way that he won’t kick in the nuts and send down the line?
  16. How high can he fly? In December I wrote: His rise through the minor league system was impressive, and his early season showing was a fun curio, but if he can sustain this kind of performance the Oilers will have found this generation’s Rich Peverley. We’ll need to see it over 150 games in the NHL, but Mark Arcobello has beaten the odds over and over again. It’s like I wrote earlier this season, can’t shoot, can’t skate, too small, he’s heard it for so long he’s not listening anymore. He is, however, making a lot of noise.
  17. Why this song? I almost chose Dweller on the Threshold, but part of  the problem with Van the Man is that we’re going to run out of players without getting to all of the “A” list songs, so Dweller loses there. Also, the song fits on another, better level. Morrison wrote it about an actual place in Belfast, the “other side of the tracks” for a poor kid who perhaps spent much of his young adult life working like hell to find a better place. I think it works for Arcobello, who has seen Cyprus Avenue, and wants to live there for a long time.
  18. Will he? It’s in the heavens, those aren’t answers we can fill in before the story is written.
  19. I can. He won’t. Arcobello’s are underdogs, and sure as I’m sitting here they’ve been favorites forever. If Arcobello doesn’t make it, it won’t be due to lack of trying. He’s pushing for a better day, I don’t want to know the person who can’t see that, or value it.
  20. Why did he sign here? Did you read the MacTavish quote?
  21. Yeah.

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

88 Responses to "RE 13-14 MARK ARCOBELLO: CYPRUS AVENUE"

  1. Lowetide says:

    Lowdown TSN1260 at 10

    10:05 Alan Hull Copper and Blue
    10:25 Sean Beissel Donnan Campus Director ASK THE COACH
    10:40 Corey Graham, Oil Kings PBP
    11:00 Andrew Berkshire Habs Eyes on the Prize
    11:40 Jeff Krushell, Krush Performance

  2. PhrankLee says:

    I don’t think he bumps Gagner. He should replace Lander.

  3. RCN says:

    I haven’t seen this out there yet, but my understanding on Arcobello is he’s a RFA after next yr, but is once again Group 6 UFA eligible IF he plays < 30 games. The saga continues.

  4. Benhur says:

    I see a trade (dump) of Gagner and Arco stepping in to his #2 role. He is a better all round centre and a LOT cheaper!

  5. Halfwise says:

    Arco keeps coming up with surprises. Look for him to push Ference down one slot on the LD rankings, now that he has played all the F positions.

    Irony aside, I love the player, love the story, marvel especially at his first dozen games last year, but don’t see how he sticks with a team that already lacks the “heft” that unfortunately is so important in the playoffs. Guys 25 lbs heavier than Arco are getting their ribs bruised from charging and boarding events and the refs are just shrugging.

  6. hunter1909 says:

    Like with many career AHLers, the beginning of the season saw Arcobello playing above his head, looking pretty good in the process. Then, the inevitable “Mike York” effect kicked in and his production fell off the cliff and management for a change agreed with me and they kept him buried in OKC.

    On a decent team he’s a semi competent 4th liner. On the Oilers he’s a live grenade waiting to fuck everything up.

    Oilers probably to enter the 2014-15 season carrying about a dozen similar situational team wrecking potential effects, because that’s how Lowe/MacT have always liked to do things.

    Riverboat gamblers, using the rent as collateral.

  7. Lowetide says:

    hunter1909:
    Like with many career AHLers,the beginning of the season saw Arcobello playing above his head, looking pretty good in the process. Then,the inevitable “Mike York” effect kicked in and his production fell off the cliff and management for a change agreed with me and they kept him buried in OKC.

    On a decent team he’s a semi competent 4th liner. On the Oilers he’s a live grenade waiting to fuck everything up.

    Oilers probably to enter the 2014-15 season carrying about a dozen similar situational team wrecking potential effects, because that’s how Lowe/MacT have always liked to do things.

    Riverboat gamblers, using the rent as collateral.

    Meh. That’s framing the issue. the production went down when Gagner returned, in November.

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/arcobma01/splits/2014/

    http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gagnesa01/splits/2014/

  8. theres oil in virginia says:

    hunter1909,

    Arco had 10 pts in 13 games before Gagner returned to the lineup. Gagner returned on 10/29. Arco had 8 pts in the remaining 28 games. His TOI went from about 18 min/game to about 14 min/game. I’m pretty sure that correlates with migration from top 6 to bottom 6, and it happened abruptly on 10/29.

  9. Pouzar says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    hunter1909,

    Arco had 10 pts in 13 games before Gagner returned to the lineup.Gagner returned on 10/29.Arco had 8 pts in the remaining 28 games.His TOI went from about 18 min/game to about 14 min/game.I’m pretty sure that correlates with migration from top 6 to bottom 6, and it happened abruptly on 10/29.

    Thank you for this.

  10. Jordan says:

    Arco isn’t going to play in Edmonton – the bias against small players is too big to overcome.

    Many of us have already moved on from Sam to an established centre who brings different tools to the table – something this team desperately needs. Arco, while bring better defensively and having some grit to his game, doesn’t have the power to compete of the season with the raw bulk of the western powers. So, if we won’t keep Sam, why would we give Arco an opportunity on that 2nd line?

    That leaves the 4th line C role, and for him to be effective there, he’d need two wingers who can play. If Gazdic is still seen as a 12 and not a 13, Arco will not be effective in that role, because he can’t carry Luke on his own, and there isn’t another winger good enough to help him right now.

    Love the player, love the story, wish the Oilers would find a place for him.

    Don’t see a good fit, based on management’s statements and assessments. Hope he’s picked up on waivers after camp.

  11. jake70 says:

    Just a quick hop back to Dillon Simpson, meant to post this once they signed him but totally forgot yesterday….pretty fromage from the 80s but gotta love Arnie…

    http://youtu.be/WZpX1WRcC7w

  12. hunter1909 says:

    Lowetide,

    I’m way to lazy to study all those columns of numbers, but what I did see was 4 freaking goals…and neither myself or Toe Blake pencil 4 goal players anywhere but the bottom of the batting order.

    Actually, they go back to the AHL, until next training camp.

  13. cahill says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    hunter1909,

    Arco had 10 pts in 13 games before Gagner returned to the lineup.Gagner returned on 10/29.Arco had 8 pts in the remaining 28 games.His TOI went from about 18 min/game to about 14 min/game.I’m pretty sure that correlates with migration from top 6 to bottom 6, and it happened abruptly on 10/29.

    If you pro-rate 8 pts over 28 games to 70 games. (His worst stretch. Where he played 14 minutes)
    Arcobello would get 20 points which is in the range for teams top 9 scoring forwards.
    There were 270 forwards in the NHL last season that had 20 points. (3rd line scoring)
    Arcobello would provide us a player that can produce enough offense in a bottom 6 role, the ability to play up a line if needed, a player that can play on the PP and PK AND only cost the team $600K.

    I’d be tempted to play him with Yakupov and another vet forward (let’s say Kulemin) and give them the easiest zone starts and competition and see what happens. (Similar minutes to a 4th line). I’m probably in minority but I’d like to see Yakupov and Perron on separate lines.

  14. hunter1909 says:

    cahill: I’d be tempted to play him with Yakupov and another vet forward (let’s say Kulemin) and give them the easiest zone starts and competition and see what happens.

    That’s a good idea.

  15. David says:

    They could try three scoring lines. If Arcobello isn’t done improving then there is a player there but he needs skilled wingers to play with not Gazdic and Jones.

  16. icecastles says:

    Jordan: Arco isn’t going to play in Edmonton – the bias against small players is too big to overcome.

    Yeah, that’s Edmonton’s problem. Too few small players.

  17. cahill says:

    Jordan:
    Arco isn’t going to play in Edmonton – the bias against small players is too big to overcome.

    That leaves the 4th line C role, and for him to be effective there, he’d need two wingers who can play.If Gazdic is still seen as a 12 and not a 13, Arco will not be effective in that role, because he can’t carry Luke on his own, and there isn’t another winger good enough to help him right now.

    The sad part of this is you are most likely right. But a good head coach would have his lines playing roughly 10 – 14 minutes EVTOI per game. Look @ ANA as the model. Perry & Getzlaf play 15:30 EV minutes per game. For a point of reference Hall, Perron, Nuge & Eberle and Gagner play more or the same amount – Eakins has to cut down their TOI. The rest of Anahiem’s forwards average 10:30 – 13:30 EV minutes per game.

    Most people will say Arcobello can’t play with Gazdic. But the issue is Arcobello can and should play 11 EV minutes a night, whereas Gazdic is likely going to play roughly 5:30 minutes a night. Meaning, if Arco was on Gazdic’s “line” he’s still going to play as much without him as he would with him. The additional 5-6 minutes Arco would be playing with players like Hall, Eberle, RNH, Gordon, Perron, ect …

    Short summary of my rant; I wouldn’t give a rats ass is Arcobello was pencilled in with Gazdic.

  18. Colieo87 says:

    Thanks Lowetide, Wood Guy and Frjohnk for the ELC answers. And do the question on who my cousin is on Montreal at the moment its Rene Bourque. I hope he wins the cup he deserves it.

  19. RT26 says:

    If we could use Gordon, Hendricks and either Lander or Larsen as our 4th line, and task them with tough zone starts, you could create a soft minutes, O-zone favored 3rd line using some combination of Arcobello, Yakupov, Pitlick, Horak and Gagner. Let RNH, Hall and Ebs take the power vs. power role and re-build the 2nd line around Perron (and Yakupov potentially, although I would like to let him destroy the soft parade).

    Focus on 2C, 2RW and the 1D/ 2D slots in the off-season and see what emerges. Arcobello is responsible enough to protect the 3rd line in a 2 way sense. Why get rid of a useful piece, why not play to his strengths?

  20. Ryan says:

    “Why didn’t you say something? Well, like the Oilers, I kept waiting. Surely Gagner would turn a corner. He never did.’

    Yes, that was especially frustrating when Eakins kept riding a broken Gagner while a better option at the time (Arcobello) was either sitting on the shelf or riding the range in the bottom six.

  21. Ducey says:

    Seems to me that Arco can be used in a few different ways:

    1. Trade Gagner. Draft Bennett and stick him on the 4th line for the first 30 games until he earns a promotion. Arco plays second line C until then;

    2. Throw Arco on the 4th line as C or as a winger right away. Something like Hendricks – Arco – Gazdic might work. Gazdic plays his 6 minutes a night, Arco and Hendricks could play PK and Arco could do some second unit PP work. Both could move up the lineup in the event of in-game injury, benchings etc. Arco could also help with faceoffs. Arco would likely play 10 – 12 minutes a night this way; or

    3. Put Arco on the 3rd line as a checking winger – Todd Marchant on the wing. Again he can PK, take extra faceoffs, help out the PP.

  22. raventalon40 says:

    Sorry I missed the MacTavish quote. What did he say about Arcobello?

  23. Woodguy says:

    Arco was found money.

    Good for the Oilers in finding him.

    Shame on them for wasting him last year.

    This is one of the many roster and deployment decisions that keeps me wary of both the coach and the GM.

    Here is Arco’s CF% with everyone he played 25min or more with.

    ARCOBELLO, MARK 48.3
    PETRY, JEFF 52.8
    PERRON, DAVID 52.8
    EBERLE, JORDAN 50.9
    HEMSKY, ALES 48.6
    YAKUPOV, NAIL 50.3
    SMYTH, RYAN 56.3
    HALL, TAYLOR 48.3
    JONES, RYAN 45.6
    JOENSUU, JESSE 43.2
    GORDON, BOYD 43.3
    GAZDIC, LUKE 29.9

    FERENCE, ANDREW 45.3
    SCHULTZ, JUSTIN 50.7
    BELOV, ANTON 53.7
    SCHULTZ, NICK 38.5
    SMID, LADISLAV 41.6
    LARSEN, PHILIP 43.2
    MARINCIN, MARTIN 53.8

    Notice that he played very well with good players.

    He was the best on the team with good players actually.

    When Sam came back, Sam was terrible with good players and Arco had the lead weights tied around his ankles with Gazdic, Jones, Jonensuu etc.

    This guy is a player and if the Oilers can’t see that, well fuck them.

    5’7″ 179lb Mats Zuccarello forced his way onto the Rags team.

    Tortarella played him low in the line up with the likes of Pyatt, Clowe and Richards (when he was in the dog house last year) and he put up 0.44pts/gm in 25 games over 2 years.

    Vigneault puts him with good players and he puts up 0.766pts/gm in 77 games this year and lead the Rags in points this year.

    Arco’s pts/gm in the AHL was .85 and Zuccarello 0.89

    MacT/Eakins can either treat Arco like Torts or Vigneault.

    I hope they make the right decision.

  24. Hammers says:

    Arco could play the wing if needed . Still think the 4th line with bottom 5 players could include Arco , Lander , Horak , Pitlick & Gazdic (or a fighter ) . Also think Arco , Lander & Horak can get some PK time . Eakins seems to give his 4th line minimum minutes 7-8 + PK time if good enough .McTavish will only bring in 3 or 4 new players and 1 of them maybe Nurse .

  25. theres oil in virginia says:

    Ducey,

    I think your option 2 is likely what they’re looking at. I think it could work well enough to not be a lead weight around the ankles.

  26. Woodguy says:

    I’m not saying Arco needs to be 2C, but he needs to play with good players.

  27. theres oil in virginia says:

    theres oil in virginia:
    Ducey,

    I think your option 2 is likely what they’re looking at.I think it could work well enough to not be a lead weight around the ankles.

    Ha! WG, I swear I hadn’t read your comment before using the “lead weight around the ankles” line. Funny we were thinking the same analogy (with opposite feelings about it), but your CF number of Arco with Gazdic gives me pause. Still, I wonder how much of it is Gazdic alone, and how much is Gazdic + poor D + Ryan Jones, et al. No way for Arco to swim with all of that tied around his ankles.

  28. G Money says:

    Arco is a decent player. He’s skilled, works hard every shift, and seems to have a desire to personally excel (aka he doesn’t lollygag), a trait that seems lacking at times in other, higher-profile Oilers.

    I assumed that his treatment this year meant the Oilers would let him walk for nothing, as they’ve done so many times with other decent-useful-but-not-star-level NHL players.

    The fact that they resigned him is a good indicator that rectal cranial inversion syndrome no longer impacts the team’s player assessment as seriously as it has in the past.

    Let’s hope that a team desire to win allows Arco to be deployed on the ice next year in a way that actually helps.

  29. Ducey says:

    Tyler Johnson (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/players/bio/?id=6992) has been nominated for the Calder.

    Another 5’9″ player that was ignored and made it thru anyway.

    Here’s hoping Mitch Holmberg (who is a full inch taller) follow’s the same path with the Oilers. He put up almost identical numbers to Johnson with the same WHL franchise (Spokane).

  30. Ryan says:

    Woodguy,

    exact sentiments, here. very well said!

    By math, Arco was a corsi machine on the Oilers when played in the top six at the start of the season… By eye, it was refreshing to see him not making the Gagner-esque mistakes with his own zone coverage.

    It’s a shame the Oilers handled the situation the way they did. Better alternatives might have been to pull the plug on Gagner after 5 -10 games and give him some more recovery time and slot Arco back in or not rush Gagner back to the lineup in the first place. OR have traded gagner last summer when his value was at it’s peak (the drum I was beating on at the time).

  31. Bar_Qu says:

    18 skaters and 2 goaltenders can dress for each game NHL Rule 5.

    I don’t see why there isn’t room for Arcobello in an Oiler line-up, even with a Gazdic on the bench.

    RNH-Hall-Eberle
    X-Perron-Yak
    Gordon-Winnick(type)-Arcobello
    Hendricks-Gazdic-Pitlick

    Petry-1D
    Ference-Klefbom
    Schultz-Marincin

    Honestly, I don’t care to sort out the D, but I think if you want an effective bottom 6 Arcobello plays and occupies the role of the guy who does what you need and doesn’t cost anything. If the Oilers want to go out and sign Stastny (which feels like a better and better idea all the time) then they need to save money in the bottom 6. Hendricks doesn’t, neither does Gordon or the other vet winger, so I think the Oil have to have him up along with a tweener (Pitlick or other call up type) to make the dollars work.

    My 2 cents

  32. Halfwise says:

    If Arco + Gadzooks didn’t Corgify that well, just imagine Gags + Gadzooks.

  33. G Money says:

    Halfwise:
    If Arco + Gadzooks didn’t Corgify that well, just imagine Gags + Gadzooks.

    4 on 4 with Gags and Gadzooks up front and Fraser and Ference on the back end.

    It’s basically the hockey equivalent of the other teams wet dream.

  34. theres oil in virginia says:

    G Money: 4 on 4 with Gags and Gadzooks up front and Fraser and Ference on the back end.

    It’s basically the hockey equivalent of the other teams wet dream.

    Throw in Ryan Jones for 5 on 5 action. Want to see some good Scrivens highlights?

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    One thing on the Gagner-Arco line of thought:

    I think when Gagner returned the team had to defer to Gagner, even if he was rushed and even if he was terrible. If they are going to play him, they had to play him. The mistake was playing him at all early.

    Once it was apparent Gagner wasn’t right, I think they should have acted.

    On this I think we all agree.

    A couple of ripples though… at some point they decided to test the market on Gagner, thereafter, they were trying to sell Gagner, not win games per se and that meant him and his linemates and TOI took priority to Arco.

    Somewhere in there also, MacT decided the Barons had a shot at the playoffs and wanted Arco leading the drive.

    Somewhere in there also, Arco got injured.

    So… while I completely agree the Gagner/Arco situation was bungled this year, the story is a bit more complicated.

  36. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey: Here’s hoping Mitch Holmberg (who is a full inch taller) follow’s the same path with the Oilers. He put up almost identical numbers to Johnson with the same WHL franchise (Spokane).

    speaking of Holmberg…

    he was nominated for WHL player of the year

    http://www.whl.ca/article/whl-announces-player-of-the-year-finalists_161919

    see more about him in my write up of Oilers’ prospects still playing hockey:

    http://www.theoilersrig.com/2014/04/dakar-oilers-prospect-updates/

  37. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: 5’7″ 179lb Mats Zuccarello forced his way onto the Rags team.

    good reference point.

    I’ve often compared his trajectory to Omark. the point being a goodish, cap strapped team saw Zuc as cheap fun; a terrible, cap free team saw Omark as useless.

    Success can be very situation dependent.

    Arco makes for another good comp for Zuc.

  38. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    One thing on the Gagner-Arco line of thought:

    I think when Gagner returned the team had to defer to Gagner, even if he was rushed and even if he was terrible. If they are going to play him, they had to play him. The mistake was playing him at all early.

    Once it was apparent Gagner wasn’t right, I think they should have acted.

    On this I think we all agree.

    A couple of ripples though… at some point they decided to test the market on Gagner, thereafter, they were trying to sell Gagner, not win games per se and that meant him and his linemates and TOI took priority to Arco.

    Somewhere in there also, MacT decided the Barons had a shot at the playoffs and wanted Arco leading the drive.

    Somewhere in there also, Arco got injured.

    So… while I completely agree the Gagner/Arco situation was bungled this year, the story is a bit more complicated.

    Looks like they scratched him and sent him down during a two week stretch in late Nov and he was injured for two weeks in late Dec. He played his last NHL game in late Jan.

    Late in the season, I agree that it was good to keep him in OKC.

  39. Bank Shot says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: good reference point.

    I’ve often compared his trajectory to Omark. the point being a goodish, cap strapped team saw Zuc as cheap fun; a terrible, cap free team saw Omark as useless.

    Success can be very situation dependent.

    Arco makes for another good comp for Zuc.

    Or Zuc is just a better hockey player than Omark.

    Omark also got healthy scratched in the Swiss league finals during the lockout, and no team in the league wanted him when he was on waivers.

    I’ve got time for Arcobello on this team but not if the Oilers start him in the top six. They need to go with proven players at this point. Arco needs to start down the lineup. Preferably fourth line.

  40. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I’ve often compared his trajectory to Omark. the point being a goodish, cap strapped team saw Zuc as cheap fun; a terrible, cap free team saw Omark as useless.

    I too liked the Zuccarello-Omark comp and have invoked it many times. They were very similar every step of the way until one made the mistake of becoming an Oiler and, thud.

    I was fully expecting Linus to rip it up with Buffalo after the trade but that never happened either. This year Omark was a shadow of the guy that Zuccarello has become. Strange how that happens. I keep hoping that one of these centuries it’ll be an Oiler who is a pleasant surprise and hits it out of the park. Can’t even remember the last guy who did that, seems like forever ago.

  41. thejonrmcleod says:

    There has been some talk of pushing Gordon and Hendricks down to the third line. Perhaps Arcobello could center the third line. How about the following bottom-6:

    Lander-Arcobello-Winnik
    Hendricks-Gordon-Pitlick
    Gazdic

    Edit: The above players could also form an “ick” line: Hendricks-Winnik-Pitlick.

  42. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bank Shot: Or Zuc is just a better hockey player than Omark.

    That’s certainly possible. But I’d guess, if he is, he’s only marginally better and his success is more likely attributed to situation than performance.

    Bank Shot: Omark also got healthy scratched in the Swiss league finals during the lockout, and no team in the league wanted him when he was on waivers.

    I don’t know the circumstances of his benching, but it was only for 2 games out of 14. He also led the whole league in scoring in the same season:

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?leagueid=NLA&season=2012

    It is literally an absurd proposition to suggest Omark isn’t a good hockey player. The fact that no team in the league picked him up is a condemnation of the league not Omark.

    How many examples do we need before we let go of the argument from authority regarding NHL decision makers? How many? Seriously?

    Speaking of Omark. He was picked up right away by the SHL and went 5 1-3-4 to end the season and 6 2-3-5 in the playoffs. So… pretty good!

    he was picked up by Jokerit (newly of the KHL) right away. Good player. let it go.

  43. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bruce McCurdy: I too liked the Zuccarello-Omark comp and have invoked it many times. They were very similar every step of the way until one made the mistake of becoming an Oiler and, thud.

    I was fully expecting Linus to rip it up with Buffalo after the trade but that never happened either. This year Omark was a shadow of the guy that Zuccarello has become. Strange how that happens. I keep hoping that one of these centuries it’ll be an Oiler who is a pleasant surprise and hits it out of the park. Can’t even remember the last guy who did that, seems like forever ago.

    That’s my assessment too. He “looked” good in Buffalo, esp. on the powerplay. But, he couldn’t cash. And, a guy like him has to cash to get another look at the girl through the dirty glass.

    Poor situation and poor performance. Too bad, he clearly wanted to play in the NHL and I think he could have.

  44. Lois Lowe says:

    I don’t know. I always saw O’Mark good, but at some point I think it’s okay to say he’s a tweener that couldn’t make his mark in the NHL. Arco is the better player IMO, mostly because he is able to play up and down the line up.

  45. G Money says:

    Funny thing about Omark – career ppg of 0.405. Some UFA comparables:

    Brodziak Kyle MIN 0.38
    Fehr Eric WSH 0.38
    Cooke Matt MIN 0.382
    Halpern Jeff PHX 0.382
    Ott Steve 0.384
    Hansen Jannik VAN 0.388
    Comeau Blake CBJ 0.389
    Chimera Jason WSH 0.391
    Stalberg Viktor NSH 0.393
    Burns Brent SJS 0.395
    Omark Linus BUF 0.405
    Leino Ville BUF 0.416
    Maroon Patrick ANA 0.416
    Kennedy Tyler SJS 0.421
    Ward Joel WSH 0.428

    There are a lot of real hockey players on that list. I think it was his size, assumptions about his defensive capabilities, and situational bad luck (he scored like a third liner but probably needs to be in a second line role to shine) that did him in.

  46. G Money says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    I hate to say it (’cause I admire his gumption and he’s got a tough role to play), but right now, any line with Gazdic on it is the Oilers’ “ick!” line.

  47. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Hahaha… sorry to jank the thread into Omark land… not intentional. Just like that Zuc!

  48. Bank Shot says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: That’s certainly possible. But I’d guess, if he is, he’s only marginally better and his success is more likely attributed to situation than performance.

    I don’t know the circumstances of his benching, but it was only for 2 games out of 14. He also led the whole league in scoring in the same season:

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/league.php?leagueid=NLA&season=2012

    It is literally an absurd proposition to suggest Omark isn’t a good hockey player. The fact that no team in the league picked him up is a condemnation of the league not Omark.

    How many examples do we need before we let go of the argument from authority regarding NHL decision makers? How many? Seriously?

    Speaking of Omark. He was picked up right away by the SHL and went 5 1-3-4 to end the season and 6 2-3-5 in the playoffs. So… pretty good!

    he was picked up by Jokerit (newly of the KHL) right away. Good player. let it go.

    He was benched in the finals to let another import play that had fewer points but a better compete level and all around game.

    There are lots of guys that could score at lower levels but didn’t have what it takes to play at the NHL level. Brandon Bochenski, Nigel Dawes, Giroux, O’Sullivan.

    Just because you are a fan of Omark doesn;t mean you should downplay the accomplishments of guys like Zuccarello that are succeeding. There is no evidence to suggest that Zuccarello just got lucky and Omark is an equal player. Inferior league boxcars do not count as a proof.

    Omark was not a good hockey player at the NHL level. He had some good hands but he didn’t play a team game and only showed compete in half the rink.

    He’s no different than a million other guys that washed out of the NHL for the same reasons.

  49. rickithebear says:

    Bar_Qu: Gordon-Winnick(type)-Arcobello

    you want about 29 EVG from your 3rd line to compete with the west best.

    Winnick 7 EVG
    Gordon 7 EVG
    Arco 8 EVG

    A little lowvery strong 4th line!

  50. hunter1909 says:

    Ladislav Smid: Rushed into the NHL + never delivered on the fine promise he arrived from Disneyland with.

    Sam Gagner: Criminally rushed into the NHL instead of allowing him to develop as needed. Hindsight is everything.

    Rob Schremp: Drafted then left to rot and wither in the AHL; get this – not even playing for teams who owned his rights. “Finally” allowed a 4 game call up and scores 3 points before MacT in one of his most Chickenhead Eakins moments returns him to the AHL, with his heart completely broken. Yakupov so far as I can tell is Schremp II.

    MA Pouliot: Very decent player might avoided the Oilers and developed properly; instead left to founder in the AHL on teams who had ZERO interest in developing him(similar time as Schremp, when the management didn’t have a farm team). You can’t make this up.

    Justin Schultz: Uber AHL debut and carried it to the show for the longest time until the poor rookie loses energy plain and simple…unfortunately this is the Oiler’s and so the following season he’s also thrown to the wolves with 50 games, count em, 50 games total NHL experience. By the way, he’s not Bobby Orr guys. He’s flat out being ruined.

    Mikhnov, Rita, Salmalainnen, provide more examples of Lowe/MacT’s prospect non-development record. It’s not MacT’s fault? He was only the coach?

  51. Ducey says:

    I can’t believe people are still saying the Oilers wrecked Omark.

    The guy had a full opportunity in Buffalo. They didn’t see enough in 13 games to even risk a 6th round draft pick on him.

    Whats next? An ode bemoaning how Robbie Schremp never got a real shot under MacT?

  52. Glock9 says:

    Woodguy:
    Arco was found money.

    Good for the Oilers in finding him.

    Shame on them for wasting him last year.

    This is one of the many roster and deployment decisions that keeps me wary of both the coach and the GM.

    Here is Arco’s CF% with everyone he played 25min or more with.

    ARCOBELLO, MARK48.3
    PETRY, JEFF52.8
    PERRON, DAVID52.8
    EBERLE, JORDAN50.9
    HEMSKY, ALES48.6
    YAKUPOV, NAIL50.3
    SMYTH, RYAN56.3
    HALL, TAYLOR48.3
    JONES, RYAN45.6
    JOENSUU, JESSE43.2
    GORDON, BOYD43.3
    GAZDIC, LUKE29.9

    FERENCE, ANDREW45.3
    SCHULTZ, JUSTIN50.7
    BELOV, ANTON53.7
    SCHULTZ, NICK38.5
    SMID, LADISLAV41.6
    LARSEN, PHILIP43.2
    MARINCIN, MARTIN53.8

    Notice that he played very well with good players.

    He was the best on the team with good players actually.

    When Sam came back, Sam was terrible with good players and Arco had the lead weights tied around his ankles with Gazdic, Jones, Jonensuu etc.

    This guy is a player and if the Oilers can’t see that, well fuck them.

    5’7″ 179lb Mats Zuccarello forced his way onto the Rags team.

    Tortarella played him low in the line up with the likes of Pyatt, Clowe and Richards (when he was in the dog house last year) and he put up 0.44pts/gm in 25 games over 2 years.

    Vigneault puts him with good players and he puts up 0.766pts/gm in 77 games this year and lead the Rags in points this year.

    Arco’s pts/gm in the AHL was .85 and Zuccarello 0.89

    MacT/Eakins can either treat Arco like Torts or Vigneault.

    I hope they make the right decision.

    BANG ON !!!

    I think way too much is made of his size. His size is a problem for everyone else, but it is NOT a problem in His game !

    I hope coach & gm open their eyes……

  53. hunter1909 says:

    Ducey: Robbie Schremp never got a real shot under MacT?

    The only type of players who MacT ever went out of his way to promote were grinders like Toby(“Sorry Schremp, this dwarf is better than you”) Peterson.

    And his various “captains”…whom, collectively add up to wtf who knows? 1/1,000 of a Mark Messier?

  54. hunter1909 says:

    If this were Japan, gangsters would buy a few Oilers season tickets, attend the annual conflab(sic) with ticket holders + management then yell and shout abuse at Kevin Lowe.

  55. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bank Shot: Just because you are a fan of Omark doesn;t mean you should downplay the accomplishments of guys like Zuccarello that are succeeding. There is no evidence to suggest that Zuccarello just got lucky and Omark is an equal player. Inferior league boxcars do not count as a proof.
    Omark was not a good hockey player at the NHL level. He had some good hands but he didn’t play a team game and only showed compete in half the rink.
    He’s no different than a million other guys that washed out of the NHL for the same reasons.

    Point out where I downplayed Zuc?

    Just because you have an absurd take on Omark, doesn’t say anything about Zuc. I went out of my way to say I like him a lot.

    There is plenty of evidence Zuc got a situational benefit from NYR. I already went through it.

    Omark played very well at every level ever excepting this year in his limited NHL looks. How easily we forget his one real NHL season. 27 points in 51 games is pretty good for a debut.

    Oh, and he led the team in CorsiOn >50gps.

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2010_s&f2=5v5&f5=EDM&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

    Not a stellar player. But a player.

  56. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey:
    I can’t believe people are still saying the Oilers wrecked Omark.

    The guy had a full opportunity in Buffalo. They didn’t see enough in 13 games to even risk a 6th round draft pick on him.

    Whats next? An ode bemoaning how Robbie Schremp never got a real shot under MacT?

    No one said the Oilers ruined Omark. Don’t be ridiculous.

    He had a shot to win NHL people over and he flubbed it.

  57. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    Sorry for the thread jack here, but I thought some may find this news piece I saw today interesting as its a nice example of how amateur interest in interpreting known data can change perception of how to play a sport to improve winning percentage. This high school coach discontinued the play of punting the ball to the opposing team as the statistics and associated probabilities clearly showed that it was a poor decision to give up possession versus going for the play to get first down. A nice tangential illustration of how analytics can help dispel conventional thinking and routine.

    http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/04/19/disruptive-award-football-coach-kevin-kelley-punt

    In that same vein, I’ve always been curious based on the success rates of selecting NHL worthy prospects beyond the first round, whether a analytical study would prove that it is never worthwhile to use a pick after the first round versus trading for known talent. Not that I have the time or interest to delve into this, but my instincts are that it is not worthwhile to spend time drafting after the first or second round as the probability of hitting it right is so low. Better to consistently shed picks for known prospects or established players as you may very well improve probability of success over time. Controversial I know, but has there ever been a legitimate study done on that?

  58. Ducey says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: No one said the Oilers ruined Omark. Don’t be ridiculous.He had a shot to win NHL people over and he flubbed it.

    Really?

    This sure sounds like it:

    I too liked the Zuccarello-Omark comp and have invoked it many times. They were very similar every step of the way until one made the mistake of becoming an Oiler and, thud.

    or this

    I’ve often compared his trajectory to Omark. the point being a goodish, cap strapped team saw Zuc as cheap fun; a terrible, cap free team saw Omark as useless.

  59. НИНТЕНДО⁶⁴ says:

    Well Oiled and Enthusiastic: This high school coach discontinued the play of punting the ball to the opposing team as the statistics and associated probabilities clearly showed that it was a poor decision to give up possession versus going for the play to get first down.

    Not just no punts, but almost always kicks on-site with dozens of plays for that once leading 29-0 before the other teams QB got on the field.

    “In high school, the average opponent’s start after a regular kickoff is the 33-yard line. After a failed onside, it is the 47,” Kevin Kelly said. “So you are risking 14 yards of field position in return for a good chance of a turnover. If there were a blitz action that would risk a 14-yard gain by the offense versus a turnover for your defense, you’d call it constantly. That is the equation for an onside, yet the play is hardly ever called.”

    http://usafootball.com/blogs/sports-are-80-percent-mental/post/7463/going-for-it-on-fourth-down—lessons-from-football-analytics#sthash.Fjkn4mn7.dpuf

  60. Well Oiled and Enthusiastic says:

    НИНТЕНДО⁶⁴,

    Very true and very interesting tactic.

  61. Jordan says:

    Woodguy:
    I’m not saying Arco needs to be 2C, but he needs to play with good players.

    I think this is something we’d like to see for all players on the Oilers.

    In fact, I think that should be a sign they put over top of the entrance to the Oilers dressing room:

    “GOOD PLAYERS ONLY – BAD PLAYERS STAY OUT!”

    If nothing else, it would keep out the head coach, and the assistant coaches.

  62. Lloyd B. says:

    Spoiler alert! Thread jack in progress. There is a great article up on Sportsnet on Jonathon Quicks goaltending. The Author, Boyle, explains how Quick has had to travel 114 feet more than Price during the games so far. Really interesting read that no doubt some of you guys would love to sink your teeth into. Unfortunately, I don’t seem to have the computer savvy to copy and paste a link to the article. If there is a simple way to do that I would appreciate the how too. Maybe one of you propeller heads can paste the link for the rest of the folks here in the interim.

  63. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Ducey: Really?

    This sure sounds like it:

    I too liked the Zuccarello-Omark comp and have invoked it many times. They were very similar every step of the way until one made the mistake of becoming an Oiler and, thud.

    or this

    I’ve often compared his trajectory to Omark. the point being a goodish, cap strapped team saw Zuc as cheap fun; a terrible, cap free team saw Omark as useless.

    How did Bruce and I describe that?

    as situations favorable or unfavorable for a untraditional player type to break through.

    That is, Omark got unlucky to land in the Oilers land where they didn’t need a cheap skill option so they could afford to look elsewhere and ignore him.

    That’s a long way from saying the Oilers wrecked Omark. A long, long way.

    And, Omark is far from wrecked. He’s going to continue his fine career elsewhere.

  64. Bank Shot says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Point out where I downplayed Zuc?

    Just because you have an absurd take on Omark, doesn’t say anything about Zuc. I went out of my way to say I like him a lot.

    There is plenty of evidence Zuc got a situational benefit from NYR. I already went through it.

    Omark played very well at every level ever excepting this year in his limited NHL looks. How easily we forget his one real NHL season. 27 points in 51 games is pretty good for a debut.

    Oh, and he led the team in CorsiOn >50gps.

    http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=30&f1=2010_s&f2=5v5&f5=EDM&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

    Not a stellar player. But a player.

    His first season where he had the best offensive zone starts and the worst possible competition. I’m not saying he didn’t put up points. I’m saying like O’Sullivan, who was also a corgi leader, that he was a a player that only put up points when he was put in an optimal position to put them up.

    Those minutes are better used on players such as Hall, Eberle, Hopkins who have a much better chance to impact the game.

    Omark didn’t post good numbers in 2011-2012, and he didn’t post good numbers in 2013-2014.

    That’s two out of his three seasons in the NHL where he didn’t do anything at the NHL level. The coaches were clearly testing his abilities more in the second and third seasons and he failed the tests.

    He posted good boxcars playing with Brunner and Zetterberg in Switzerland. I’m sure the Red Wings watched him a few times but they wanted nothing to do with him.

    I’d like to know what is absurd about my take on Omark? That is he’s a decent depth scoring call up option.

  65. Lois Lowe says:

    G Money,

    Sample size alert.

  66. russ99 says:

    Ducey:
    I can’t believe people are still saying the Oilers wrecked Omark.

    The guy had a full opportunity in Buffalo. They didn’t see enough in 13 games to even risk a 6th round draft pick on him.

    Whats next? An ode bemoaning how Robbie Schremp never got a real shot under MacT?

    Really, you’re saying that about this year? Renney wrecked Omark in 2011-12.

    He earned a spot out of training camp his first year and was demoted.

    In Omark’s second year after playing on the wall in the o-zone and behind the net better than anyone on the roster, he was pressboxed, then dumped to the minors where he got slew-footed.

    I was shocked that Omark would ever come back much less for training camp this year when he can make decent cash in the SEL or KHL and still play at a high level.

    And it’s sad that we’re stuck with coach now that’s way worse than Renney.

  67. Woodguy says:

    Seamus O’Mark suffered from a similar fate in BUF.

    Here’s his Goals For% and Corsi For % with his top 5 Forward line mates:

    FOLIGNO GF% 0 CF% 43.8
    LEINO GF% 0 CF% 35.3
    FLYNN GF% 0 CF% 38.8
    ENNIS GF% 50 CF% 59
    STAFFORD GF% 33.3 CF% 55.7

    Hey look!

    When he played with guys who have feet for hands it was terrible.

    Plays with guys who can play NHL hockey and it was ok to good.

    Same thing with Arco.

    Look at his CF% differences that I posted earlier.

    Problem with Seamus is that he needs to blow the doors off to win the spot as every team is deep in their own marginal offensive prospects.

    Arco DID blow the doors off, and then Eakins and MacT proceeded to piss him away when Goneyay got back.

  68. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Bank Shot: His first season where he had the best offensive zone starts and the worst possible competition. I’m not saying he didn’t put up points.

    The caveats are well acknowledged. But, when at bat, he hit the ball. that is the important.

    Bank Shot: he was a a player that only put up points when he was put in an optimal position to put them up.

    we never ran the alternative.

    Bank Shot: Omark didn’t post good numbers in 2011-2012

    sure he did. In the AHL. In the NHL he was poor and couldn’t find the range, then got injured, then languished in the press box.

    Bank Shot: he didn’t post good numbers in 2013-2014.

    a complete disaster from an NHL POV this year. no doubt. he blew it. Great season in the AHL though.

    Bank Shot: That’s two out of his three seasons in the NHL where he didn’t do anything at the NHL leve

    the sample size is far too small to say this with anything like critical definition.

    Bank Shot: He posted good boxcars playing with Brunner and Zetterberg in Switzerland. I’m sure the Red Wings watched him a few times but they wanted nothing to do with him.

    when you play on top lines you get top linemates. besides Zet only played 23 games and Brunner (who the Red Wings wanted nothing to do with either once his contract expired) only played 33.

    And, he led the league in scoring.

    Bank Shot: I’d like to know what is absurd about my take on Omark? That is he’s a decent depth scoring call up option.

    The manner in which you feel I’ve somehow “downplayed” Zuc by simply comparing his interesting career path to Omark’s.

    To feel that I’ve slighted a player for making that comparison speaks to an absurd opinion as far as I’m concerned. You must really dislike Omark to find such a comparison so objectionable.

  69. Ducey says:

    Woodguy: Seamus O’Mark suffered from a similar fate in BUF.Here’s his Goals For% and Corsi For % with his top 5 Forward line mates:FOLIGNO GF% 0 CF% 43.8LEINO GF% 0 CF% 35.3FLYNN GF% 0 CF% 38.8ENNIS GF% 50 CF% 59STAFFORD GF% 33.3 CF% 55.7Hey look!When he played with guys who have feet for hands it was terrible.Plays with guys who can play NHL hockey and it was ok to good.Same thing with Arco.Look at his CF% differences that I posted earlier.Problem with Seamus is that he needs to blow the doors off to win the spot as every team is deep in their own marginal offensive prospects.Arco DID blow the doors off, and then Eakins and MacT proceeded to piss him away when Goneyay got back.

    That is a bit misleading isn’t it? CF% would be corsi for and against right when that player is on the ice?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding things but wouldn’t better linemates themselves increase the CF%?

  70. G Money says:

    Lois Lowe,

    Fair enough. It is a small sample. That said, he’s got 79 games at the NHL level at .405 and another 75 games or so at the AHL level at >1 ppg, all over the course of three seasons. So I’d say all together there’s enough data there to draw a reasonable albeit early assessment as to what level of offensive capability is there.

  71. Glock9 says:

    Woodguy,

    Arco DID blow the doors off, and then Eakins and MacT proceeded to piss him away when Goneyay got back.

    Goneyay ???

    LMFAO !!!

  72. G Money says:

    Ducey: That is a bit misleading isn’t it?CF% would be corsi for and against right when that player is on the ice?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding things but wouldn’t better linemates themselves increase the CF%?

    Yes. And you are correct, CF% is very sensitive to linemate and team effects, which is why sample size and context are important.

    That said, the WOWY data suggests that not only does Omark do better with good linemates, but generally his linemates do better with him too. So on balance taking both those sets of data into account, the numbers confirm what a lot of people here believe – that Omark is actually a pretty decent player.

    Note: per earlier comment, all of the data on Omark is pretty sparse, so you can’t draw anything more definitive than “the data suggests”.

  73. FastOil says:

    There is quite a difference between a guy 5′ 7″ 179 lbs and 5’7″ 165 lbs. One looks like the Giz, one looks like your 13 YO cousin.

    Arco needs to be sheltered, and the question is can the Oilers use another player that needs that, or can Arco displace one of those players?

    He certainly has game, the sample size was too small to bet the farm.

  74. НИНТЕНДО⁶⁴ says:

    Lloyd B.: Maybe one of you propeller heads can paste the link for the rest of the folks here in the interim.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/quicks-a-gambler-but-this-is-a-kings-issue/

    Interesting work by that guy normalizing goalie performance by shot quality and also pointing out that some defences leave goalies exposed to different mixes of shot quality. Even if shot quality regresses to norms or does not stand out for many offensive players across seasons, it will be interesting if it tells a lot about goalies and defenders.

  75. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Ducey: Really?

    This sure sounds like it:

    I too liked the Zuccarello-Omark comp and have invoked it many times. They were very similar every step of the way until one made the mistake of becoming an Oiler and, thud.

    My lament was more along the “because Oilers” train than anything. Showed flashes, but did nothing in (admittedly limited) opportunity in 2011-12 & 2013-14. But if you look at his career NHL stats it reads like one fairly underwhelming season: 79 GP, 8-24-32, -27. I don’t entirely trust it but I have little doubt that dash-27 reinforced in some observers’ minds his pre-existing reputation as a weak defensive player. Hell, to my eye he *was* a weak defensive player. I guess that’s fine if you’re bringing Kent Nilsson-level offence, but that wasn’t forthcoming.

  76. denny33 says:

    theres oil in virginia,

    Arco had 10 pts in 13 games before Gagner returned to the lineup. Gagner returned on 10/29. Arco had 8 pts in the remaining 28 games. His TOI went from about 18 min/game to about 14 min/game. I’m pretty sure that correlates with migration from top 6 to bottom 6, and it happened abruptly on 10/29.
    ********************************************************************
    Copy.Paste

    I will start the email for you…

    Dear Dallas:

    P.S.

    About Mark Fraser…

  77. cahill says:

    Woodguy:
    I’m not saying Arco needs to be 2C, but he needs to play with good players.

    I keep reading this quote, over and over again. People want to get rid of Arco because he can’t play with bad players (Gazdic). The Oilers have had too many bad players for the past 8 years! Here’s an idea keep good players AND surround them with good players.

    Again, look at the Ducks. Look at Perreault. The Ducks already have Bonino as a 2nd line center and Getzlaf as a 1st line center. Perreault is not your standard 3rd or 4th line center. Same size as Arcobello. Here’s a guy that the last three years has put up 2+ Pts/60. (Why the Caps traded him I don’t know!) Instead of saying a guy that can score in our bottom 6 they picked up him for a minor league player and a 4th round pick.

    Use Arco like this! Soft minutes, offensive player.

    It doesn’t matter if Arco is playing on your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th line. He’s an upgrade over 4 or 5 regulars on the Oilers, don’t pencil him in your second line it doesn’t matter where he plays as long as he’s an upgrade over other players. We hear it all the time. I don’t know if he’s the problem but he’s not part of the solution. Arcobello was a good player last year and good players ARE part of the solution!

  78. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Catching up with old threads, noticed a question about David Musil playing right side. I got this commentary right from the horse’s mouth when I interviewed David back in 2012:

    * * *
    CoH: You’re playing on the right side. Is that your customary position as a left shooting D-man? It’s a nice skill to have!

    DM: Usually back at home in Czech we had a lot of left [shooting] d-men, so I didn’t mind it, so I adjusted and played on the right side. I can play on both sides, I don’t have a problem playing on the right, I kind of like it.

    CoH: What are the advantages to playing on the wrong side — well, the right side for you! How does it help to have your strong side in the middle?

    DM: It’s easier to use my stick when I play defence. It has its advantages and disadvantages, kind of minor things, but if you want to be a complete defenceman you’ve got to be able to play on the left and right side. So that’s what I’m going to work on.

    * * *

    FWIW he played almost exclusively right side last year with the Oil Kings, paired with fellow lefty Keegan Lowe.

  79. denny33 says:

    Woodguy,

    This is one of the many roster and deployment decisions that keeps me wary of both the coach and the GM.
    ********************************************************************************
    Very well said….and I don’t understand how Aco’s passion and work ethic did not win favour with Dallas. Truly.

    It is the fight in the dog that impressed me….I think Arco could become a good guy on the PK as well…

  80. prairieschooner says:

    Arcobello. was found money for sure the “problem” is we still do not know how much.
    He was held back by the Gagner tire pumping and pushed down line up
    The bottom 6 was mush with little goal scoring Oilers should give Arco a solid run with guys who might finish some of his set up work Yak I think was 50% with him.
    Arcobello the little engine that can

  81. theres oil in virginia says:

    denny33: Very well said….and I don’t understand how Aco’s passion and work ethic did not win favour with Dallas. Truly.

    Maybe it did.

  82. Woodguy says:

    Ducey: That is a bit misleading isn’t it?CF% would be corsi for and against right when that player is on the ice?

    Maybe I am misunderstanding things but wouldn’t better linemates themselves increase the CF%?

    Absolutely they do.

  83. Woodguy says:

    FastOil: Arco needs to be sheltered, and the question is can the Oilers use another player that needs that, or can Arco displace one of those players?

    By eye Arco won a ton of puck battles. Many Oilers do not.

    I don’t think he needs to be too sheltered either.

    Minimize his time against the top line of other teams and its fine.

    Whatever line Hall is on and whatever line Gordon centers gets most of those minutes anyway.

  84. Lowetide says:

    WG’s point here is a good one. We have to stop thinking of winning battles as a size issue, and remember that Arcobello actually HIT people, TOOK the puck and continued on his merry way. He really did. In the NHL. During the regular season.

    And his coverage was good. Alan Hull suggested on the Lowdown today that the Oilers might employ Arco as 3C with Gordon’s line at 4C doing the ZS shaft and toughs going to Nuge or 2nd line (featuring a quality C).

    Arco’s line getting the soft parade. Now, this sounded dangerously like three scoring lines so I zapped Alan through the phone, but he made a very good point.

  85. FastOil says:

    Lowetide:
    WG’s point here is a good one. We have to stop thinking of winning battles as a size issue, and remember that Arcobello actually HIT people, TOOK the puck and continued on his merry way. He really did. In the NHL. During the regular season.

    And his coverage was good. Alan Hull suggested on the Lowdown today that the Oilers might employ Arco as 3C with Gordon’s line at 4C doing the ZS shaft and toughs going to Nuge or 2nd line (featuring a quality C).

    Arco’s line getting the soft parade. Now, this sounded dangerously like three scoring lines so I zapped Alan through the phone, but he made a very good point.

    I agree. Right now he might be a good option, but I think it comes down to being unusually small for the NHL, and having to play with good players to be effective. Who wouldn’t be better? But you know if a bigger guy comes and does close to the same which way they go.

  86. Woodguy says:

    FastOil: I agree. Right now he might be a good option, but I think it comes down to being unusually small for the NHL, and having to play with good players to be effective. Who wouldn’t be better? But you know if a bigger guy comes and does close to the same which way they go.

    You mis-interpreting what is being said regarding good players.

    He plays well with good players.

    He helps them achieve.

    There were 7 forwards who took a regular shift last year that you cannot say that about.

    The comment is more about not filling out the roster with flotsam like Jones, Joensuu, Gazdic, etc.

    No one plays well with them.

    Its about filling out your roster with good players, regarless of size, because they are good and will out-score the opposition.

    Too many people are comfortable icing lines that are big but get outscored instead of smaller players that outscore the opposition.

    The goal of hockey is to out score, not to out big or out hit.

  87. FastOil says:

    Woodguy: You mis-interpreting what is being said regarding good players.

    He plays well with good players.

    He helps them achieve.

    There were 7 forwards who took a regular shift last year that you cannot say that about.

    The comment is more about not filling out the roster with flotsam like Jones, Joensuu, Gazdic, etc.

    No one plays well with them.

    Its about filling out your roster with good players, regarless of size, because they are good and will out-score the opposition.

    Too many people are comfortable icing lines that are big but get outscored instead of smaller players that outscore the opposition.

    The goal of hockey is to out score, not to out big or out hit.

    I am not arguing against the Oilers using the BPA – best player available. For me it’s sad that the person (no offense meant against him) would likely not even be in the conversation almost anywhere else.

    WG because I know that you understand stats, you are aware that the fact he is listed so light compared to the other small guys mentioned previously, Arco would be quite the outlier to find himself much of an NHL career. Also, you are well aware that his sample size is really small and there is no guarantee he can sustain what he did and the odds are against him.

    In his favour is that it seems more small guys are making it now, but he is quite a bit smaller (lighter really) than them from the info we have.

    I hope he beats the odds and knocks it out of the park with his shot. What I predict is he pursues his dream a while longer, gains some street cred for his ego and within his peer group, and plays until 40 making very nice ( and much better than he would out of playing hockey ) money, living in a nice Swiss town and perhaps becoming a coach when he comes home.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!

Leave a Reply

© Copyright - Lowetide.ca