OILERS DEAL GAGNER, ACQUIRE PURCELL

The Edmonton Oilers dealt young veteran Sam Gagner today. Tampa Bay gets a fine offensive forward with coverage issues, but on that high octane club he’ll likely thrive. MacTavish got the Oilers a useful player in return, an “actual NHL player” who can come in and help this fall.

TEDDY PURCELL EXTRA SKATER PLAYER CARD

purcell es

Nice numbers there, although he was ghastly in a short postseason run. Purcell’s offense is solid, his Corsi For % is good and he’s been above average on the Lightning for years now. WHERE does he bat in the lineup?

VOLLMAN SLEDGEHAMMER

purcell sleHere’s the Sledgehammer, he played softer opponents, received a zone start push and as ES indicates his Corsi For % was a very nice number (this is Corsi On). Purcell is about to play for a much less successful team, so we’ll review after next season. Purcell has 2 more years left at $4.5M and I don’t know if either team retains salary.

OILERS FORWARD DEPTH CHART

CENTER LEFT WING RIGHT WING
RYAN NUGENT-HOPKINS TAYLOR HALL JORDAN EBERLE
LEON DRAISAITL DAVID PERRON NAIL YAKUPOV
BOYD GORDON MATT HENDRICKS TEDDY PURCELL
MARK ARCOBELLO LUKE GAZDIC JESSE JOENSUU
ANTON LANDER TYLER PITLICK

Purcell can play either wing, and I’ve seen him at center but it’s been awhile. I don’t think he’s that two-way player we’ve been talking about, and would suggest he won’t be on that “tough zone start” fourth line management envisions for the Boyd Gordon’s trio. I’m sad to see Sam Gagner leave, I’ll have a sail on post up later tonight or sometime tomorrow. I hope he kills it in Florida. Best, Sam. Wish you could have played here during happier times.

As for MacT, he got more than I thought he would, and my guess is he felt pressure to deliver the coach a more veteran and a more certain defensive group. I guessed a second and a fourth, I think Purcell is fine as a return. It won’t look good five years from now, but you’ll just have to remind people of the circumstances. Sometimes, young men get traded in the NHL because the GM and the coach feel pressure to win.

Such is the case today.

A reader sent me an email I would like to share: He is a Swiss-Army player – moves up and down the lineup, plays all forward positions. This is the Pisani player. I really like this – you will too.

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280 Responses to "OILERS DEAL GAGNER, ACQUIRE PURCELL"

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  1. striatic says:

    This .. is better than what I expected the Oilers would get in return for Gagner.

    While it is true that the Oilers sell low on Sam, at least they are getting an actual NHL player in return, and one that the fancy stats like at least.

  2. Pouzar says:

    Me and Dennis King approve this move!

  3. G Money says:

    striatic: While it is true that the Oilers sell low on Sam

    As I mentioned in the other thread, I also think there is an offset in that Purcell had a similar year to Gagner (low sh%, low PDO), though presumably for very different reasons.

    So we are also buying low on Purcell.

    Could turn out to be an excellent trade for both teams.

  4. edmoil3 says:

    You ruined a good article with your center left wing right wing chart that’s ass backwards.

  5. G Money says:

    OK, MacT, now just go sign Grabo and Erhoff and BAM! playoffs.

  6. Lummeropenet84 says:

    Tampa in January? Nice Gags.

  7. LadiesloveSmid says:

    beats the 2nd round pick(s) we expected. An actual roster player is progress!

    Gagner was going to play RW next year anyways, might as well find a natural RW. I like the deal

  8. cdean says:

    I think this was similar to the hemsky trade, too many losing seasons and the team (MacT) thought he would want a new environment.

  9. Von Leon says:

    edmoil3:
    You ruined a good article with your center left wing right wing chart that’s ass backwards.

    Confuses me every time I see it.

  10. cdean says:

    THe return of Purcell is an awesome deal for MacT compared to what the media/blogosphere thought it would be.

  11. Von Leon says:

    Ganger with a broken jaw had twice as many hits as Purcell last year.
    13 hits in 81 games? He probably apologized for everyone of them.

    Not happy with the return.

  12. striatic says:

    G Money,

    We still don’t know for sure if Sam will bounce back to his full potential after the Kassian face smashing – I think he probably will but it is possible he may never. Sometimes these things take a year, but sometimes guys never bounce back from that kind of thing.

    The thing I hated about trading Gagner for picks was that they would be trading risk with upside for greater risk with similar upside. It seemed pointless.

    This trade moves risk with upside for lower risk but also lower upside. Purcell is much more projectable than a draft pick.

    In Vollman we trust.

  13. kinger_OIL says:

    Wow again LT: we are totally on same page. I agree with this entirely: to paraphrase: we got the worse player, gave up upside, but management felt they had to trade him. This one will hurt in 5 years, but ok return if Gagner had to be gone.”..

    I cut and paste my comment from last thread. We see things the same:

    Wow – this is a great post LT you have had a few sips from my drink I think we are on the same page. Just getting caught up on the trade, so a new post coming for sure, but LT you have framed this great: Now we are even further behind, for the first time in a few years, you aren’t saying: “if everything works out with the new magic beans we have, this is a playoff team” Knowing is half the battle. Smart trade by Stevie Y: Gagner is a mini Stevie Y. There was a great quote about Steve Y’s career I read from a player: basically Steve Y didn’t actually turn into a different player, he just got surrounded by a better team and he therefore got better. Gagner wasn’t the problem… Looking forward to the next post. Our team is now worse than before the trade for sure.. Still miles away from contending. Hall is going to be pissed at the end of this year. Thanks again for setting proper expectations LT…

  14. Woodguy says:

    It’s a damn shame.

    Cogliano had to leave to play wing and thrived.

    Now Gagner leaves and I have no doubt he’ll play wing and thrive.

    The fact that Sam Gagner was the last C they drafted high until RNH speaks to the failure of the Oilers to realize what they had in Sam.

    Kept pounding square pegs into round holes.

    I hope that’s over.

    If they play Sam with Stamkos he’s putting up 70pts next year.

    Sam will always be a sublime passer.

    If Stamkos is his finisher, then…… man.

  15. Spydyr says:

    Woodguy,

    Sure 70 points and -14

  16. rich says:

    The return of an actual NHL player was very important.

    Have to believe that MacT is not done yet given the lines you have above LT. Still putrid, but you’ve just improved your lineup by subtracting someone who was a significant defensive weakness every time he was on the ice and that does not cut it in the Western Conference. Our GA just got a lot better.

    If he scores a lot in the East, good for him, he deserves it after all this time. But it still does not mean we should have held onto him any longer.

  17. Lowetide says:

    kinger_OIL: on

    kinger_OIL:
    Wow again LT: we are totally on same page.I agree with this entirely: to paraphrase: we got the worse player, gave up upside, but management felt they had to trade him.This one will hurt in 5 years, but ok return if Gagner had to be gone.”..

    I cut and paste my comment from last thread.We see things the same:

    Wow – this is a great post LT you have had a few sips from my drink I think we are on the same page. Just getting caught up on the trade, so a new post coming for sure, but LT you have framed this great: Now we are even further behind, for the first time in a few years, you aren’t saying: “if everything works out with the new magic beans we have, this is a playoff team” Knowing is half the battle. Smart trade by Stevie Y: Gagner is a mini Stevie Y. There was a great quote about Steve Y’s career I read from a player: basically Steve Y didn’t actually turn into a different player, he just got surrounded by a better team and he therefore got better. Gagner wasn’t the problem… Looking forward to the next post. Our team is now worse than before the trade for sure.. Still miles away from contending. Hall is going to be pissed at the end of this year. Thanks again for setting proper expectations LT…

    We’re VERY smart. :-)

  18. Zack says:

    Von Leon:
    Ganger with a broken jaw had twice as many hits as Purcell last year.
    13 hits in 81 games? He probably apologized for everyone of them.

    Not happy with the return.

    I’m with Von Leon on this one. At first glance not a big fan of the return, big body but seems like a soft player. I’ll always remember Gagner for his sublime passing, shootout skills, his 8 point night and not afraid to take matters into his own hands…

    Gagner vs Halischuk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeKHoYO7ebo

    Gagner vs Conroy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzftt95pOI

    Gagner vs Jack Johnson
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ybMzNdmpE0

  19. Zangetsu says:

    I imagine grabo and kulemin are coming in. We also need another gordon type. I don’t know if hendricks can take the shit kicking gordon is gonna get. I still think hendricks will be out of the league before his contract is over. Anyway:
    Hall rnh ebs power v power
    Kulemin grabovski purcell Slight push
    Perron draisaitl yak. softs
    Hendricks gordon ??? Toughs
    Gazdic Gatorade

    Some size and variation in playing styles will greatly benefit this team imo.

  20. Zangetsu says:

    Zack,

    He doesn’t hit because he has the fucking puck!! Let idiots hit, I just want to have the puck.

  21. Rondo says:

    4/16/14) Teddy Purcell, who is currently toiling on Tampa’s fourth line after a poor season, hopes the playoffs will boost his game, reports the Tampa Bay Times. “It’s so much easier to get up for games in the playoffs,” said Purcell.

  22. Ribs says:

    Whelp, I like it better than the proposed Bailey deal.

    I wonder how long Gagner spends at center in Tampa.

  23. flyfish1168 says:

    I was really hoping Sam was going to get a chance to play on the wing and 2nd option center here. He is on many peoples radar as the comeback player. Selling low but maybe for the best.

  24. Acumen says:

    Well, I for one love Gagner AND I love the trade. When my brother broke the news, I only asked if there was something I didn’t know about. Purcell is exactly what we need; a functional possession monster with size that can play in the top 6. This changes our team for the better, and once you get past the narrative of failed development, I think it’s hard to deny that MacTavish did well with the position he was given. League fans, I’m confident, will widely agree… he didn’t cream Yzerman, but he made a good hockey trade that makes sense for this club.

    It feels a lot like the reason we chose Draisaitl over Bennett. They’re so close in talent level (and contract) that you look for the way everything fits to figure out a preference.

    This is a good day, and I am happy.

    Now, Craig, get a damn Center and don’t go all Will Acton on me again.

  25. G Money says:

    kinger_OIL: we got the worse player, gave up upside

    This seems to be a common theme among those who dislike the trade – that we gave up the better player.

    Just FYI, here’s the ppg for the two players the last four seasons:

    Purcell: .63, .80, .75, .52

    Gagner: .62, .63, .79, .55

    I think that .79 ppg was Sam’s high water mark for scoring. Both struggled this last year (Sam 7% sh%, Purcell 7.5%). Some offset in East vs West to be sure, but I’m also pretty sure Purcell plays a better defensive game than Gagner.

    I expect both players to rebound next year, and it is far from given that Gagner is the better player in this trade.

  26. dawgtoy says:

    Is Teddy Purcell our new Penner? Big, but doesn’t really use it. Consistency issues, but can put up points. Strong possession numbers.

  27. John Chambers says:

    Perhaps this may also mean Perron gets moved for a D, with YakCity or Theodore H Purcell sliding over to port side.

  28. Lowetide says:

    I’m reading about a Sam Gagner buyout. That’s crazy.

  29. flyfish1168 says:

    Zack: I’m with Von Leon on this one. At first glance not a big fan of the return, big body but seems like a soft player. I’ll always remember Gagner for his sublime passing, shootout skills, his 8 point night and not afraid to take matters into his own hands…

    Gagner vs Halischuk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeKHoYO7ebo

    Gagner vs Conroy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkzftt95pOI

    Gagner vs Jack Johnson
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ybMzNdmpE0

    The most lopsided fight and the worst person Sammy could have picked was Francois Beauchemin. Sam’s face was a mess afterwards sitting in the box. I will miss him

    http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/108738

  30. Germoil says:

    Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 1m

    Hearing PHX, which recently bought out centre Mike Ribeiro, is a possible landing spot for Gagner. Stay tuned.

  31. book¡je says:

    Hmm, Swiss army player… Good God people, we’ve found our Toby Peterson!

    In all seriousness, I think MacT overvalued this skill

  32. John Chambers says:

    Germoil,

    Phoenix putting a line in the water for McDavid?

  33. Spydyr says:

    Lowetide:
    I’m reading about a Sam Gagner buyout. That’s crazy.

    It goes to show the value of Gagner outside of the Edmonton media and some fans.

  34. book¡je says:

    Is a Gagner buyout cheaper than a Purcell buyout?

    If not, what else did MacT give up.

  35. cabbiesmacker says:

    G Money:
    OK, MacT, now just go sign Grabo and Erhoff and BAM! playoffs.

    Uhhhhhh. No

  36. Spydyr says:

    book¡je:
    Is a Gagner buyout cheaper than a Purcell buyout?

    If not, what else did MacT give up.

    From equinox on Oilernation:

    According to the calculator on capgeek, Gagner’s buyout cap hit is like $633K while Purcell’s is $1.5 mill.

  37. Germoil says:

    Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 1m

    TB has traded Sam Gagner to PHX, I mean Arizona. In any case, Gagner is a Coyote. #TSN

  38. book¡je says:

    Gagner in pheonix.

  39. Frank the dog says:

    One thing that will build credit for MacT is the manner in which he has taken care of his exiting players. Best available trades but also soft landings.

    Regardless of Gag’s development, injury, early return etc that’s all a dead narrative now. We need more height and more defensive ability than Gags has in the here and now, and Gags gives Stamkos sublime passing and better offensive upside.

    Sail on well, Sam!

  40. book¡je says:

    I fear to see what Pheonix gives up. Reminds me of the POS trade! I’m afraid.

  41. dawgtoy says:

    I guess we’ll never know how many points he could’ve put up with Stamkos.

  42. cabbiesmacker says:

    Zangetsu:
    I imagine grabo and kulemin are coming in. We also need another gordon type. I don’t know if hendricks can take the shit kicking gordon is gonna get. I still think hendricks will be out of the league before his contract is over.Anyway:
    Hall rnh ebspower v power
    Kulemin grabovski purcellSlight push
    Perron draisaitl yak. softs
    Hendricks gordon ???Toughs
    Gazdic Gatorade

    Some size and variation in playing styles will greatly benefit this team imo.

    In someone’s fantasy league…somewhere…perhaps a far off galaxy pool of some sort, Kulemin is playing toughs on a second line while Perron plays soft comp on a third.

    You haven’t watched a bunch of Kulemin I take it. Please don’t take everything you can deduce from a stats page as the gospel. In an 82 game season Kulemin “might” show up for 55. The rest of the time he’s an umotivated, disinterested, passive, observer of hockey games.

  43. LostBoy says:

    Huh. I could see Gags as a great fit in TB. Arizona…not so much.

    Maybe Tippett will work his dark, game-killing magic on him.

  44. book¡je says:

    Frank the dog:
    One thing that will build credit for MacT is the manner in which he has taken care of his exiting players. Best available trades but also soft landings.

    Regardless of Gag’s development, injury, early return etc that’s all a dead narrative now. We need more height and more defensive ability than Gags has in the here and now, and Gags gives Stamkos sublime passing and better offensive upside.

    Sail on well, Sam!

    Purcell is no bigger, just taller.

  45. cabbiesmacker says:

    dawgtoy:
    I guess we’ll never know how many points he could’ve put up with Stamkos.

    Stevie Y is a damn sharp cookie. Bet he grabbed a nice prospect off Arizona’s roster.

  46. Ribs says:

    5 minute clip of Purcell picking up garbage…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nss7iAtwBNU

  47. Zangetsu says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    Could you elaborate on that? What makes him disinterested? Is it a lack of physical play? I don’t see you having good posession stats and coasting. As an oiler fan its obvious that when you take a play off it ends up in the net.

  48. JamesL says:

    Huh… new name here, I think:

    Ryan Rishaug ‏@TSNRyanRishaug 2m
    I believe the Oilers would have strong interest in Kyle Quincey as well, 28 yr old left shot, experienced, and strong poss numbers.

  49. G Money says:

    cabbiesmacker: Uhhhhhh. No

    BAM! Stanley Cup?

  50. Frank the dog says:

    book¡je: Purcell is no bigger, just taller.

    The size debate. Seems on this blog the big narrative equates to tall, weight is brushed aside.

  51. jb says:

    Gagner’s appearing overrated based the comments.. People still talking about his “potential”. 7 years is more than enough to know what you have in a player.. Constant losing also has an effect on a players drive to win. We all knew it was time to move on.

  52. russ99 says:

    Glad to see Sam land in Phoenix, hopefully he’ll play center on a team that has enough 2-way assets to handle his own zone deficiencies.

    To me the whole winger thing was to force him into a role where he could stick with us, and not where he can play his best.

    Purcell is more than I expected, he improves the bottom six and keeps us from overpaying on one of the FAs we need in those roles.

    IMO this move will be judged good or bad move depending on how MacT fills the 2C role.

  53. G Money says:

    book¡je: Purcell is no bigger, just taller.

    Purcell’s numbers seem to imply that he’s a better possession player, though, which in turn suggest that he plays closer to his listed size.

    The issue with Sam isn’t his actual size, it’s that he’s listed at 200ish lbs, but plays like he’s 175 lbs.

    If Purcell is listed at 205 lbs but plays like he’s “only” 195 lbs, meaning he can win the occasional puck battle and doesn’t get swatted off the puck too easily, that’s a big upgrade.

    I have no on-ice memory of Purcell, though, so I’m going 100% on the numbers…

  54. John Chambers says:

    I’m really struggling now, with all the movement of bodies and need to dump salary, to understand the dollars given to Nikitin.

    I feel like there are going to be some big-salaried players soon to be available and the chance will have been squandered.

    Purcell trade is another savvy one for MacT, and you can be certain there wasn’t a better one out there.

  55. book¡je says:

    I’ll miss Sam Gangre, but I welcome Ted Prusell to the Oilers.

  56. dawgtoy says:

    “Find a way to get value, or make use of, Sam Gagner. This does not include time at center.”
    Scratch another off the list LT.

  57. "Steve Smith" says:

    russ99:
    Glad to see Sam land in Phoenix…

    Well, hold on, the day’s not over yet.

  58. cabbiesmacker says:

    G Money: BAM! Stanley Cup?

    Absolutely. I don’t see 6 worse teams in the west

  59. LostBoy says:

    TSN now saying Gagner moved to Arizona along with Crombeen for “a draft pick”.

    So a $5.65m cap space clearance for Tampa Bay.

  60. Cobbler says:

    Good to see a Newfoundlander on the Oilers! Congrats Teddy.
    A nice depth addition and good value for Ganger (uhh, I mean Gagner).

    Thanks Sam for all your service as an Oiler. Your 8 pt night and your wonderful skill won’t be forgotten.

  61. JamesL says:

    Wow:

    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Draft pick going to Tampa in Gagner/Crombeen trade is a 6th in 2015

    So Tampa traded Purcell and Crombeen for a 6th Round Pick. Jesus.

  62. G Money says:

    russ99: Purcell is more than I expected and he improves the bottom six

    Why would a player who was 1R on a mid-pack team and has a career high of .80 ppg (solid second line to decent first line numbers) become a “bottom 6″ forward on one of the worst teams in the league?

    Just as a guess, it seems more likely he shelters Yak next year.

    Though one can never tell what’s going to happen when a team that’s strong on the wings and weak at centre trades a centre for a winger!

  63. Woodguy says:

    cabbiesmacker: In someone’s fantasy league…somewhere…perhaps a far off galaxy pool of some sort, Kulemin is playing toughs on a second line while Perron plays soft comp on a third.

    You haven’t watched a bunch of Kulemin I take it. Please don’t take everything you can deduce from a stats page as the gospel. In an 82 game season Kulemin “might” show up for 55. The rest of the time he’s an umotivated, disinterested, passive, observer of hockey games.

    The fancystat guys who watch every Leaf game in excruciating detail love Kulimen.

  64. Lowetide says:

    dawgtoy:
    “Find a way to get value, or make use of, Sam Gagner. This does not include time at center.”
    Scratch another off the list LT.

    Yep. MacT made progress today.

  65. LostBoy says:

    For a 6th round pick!?!

    So Phoenix gets two players for nothing and Tampa clears space.

  66. godot10 says:

    Yzerman and Maloney take MacT to school.

    Yzerman frees up over $5 million in cap space. Maloney gets Sam Gagner from a division rival and a 2nd player for a 6th round draft pick.

    If you are at the poker table and don’t know who the mark is…

    Oiler pro scouts strike (out) again…

  67. Rondo says:

    TB wanted to get rid of Purcell they were clearing salary cap room. He was playing on the 4th line near the end of the season. StevieY found a way to get rid of Purcell w/o costing anything.

    Kulemin would be a welcome addition plays a 200 foot game and would help Yakupov’s learning curve.

  68. Lowetide says:

    TBay trades Gagner and Crombeen for a 5th rd pick. JESUS LORDY FREACKINGELS./1

  69. eidy says:

    Going to miss Samwise for his offensive flair.

    Think this is a good trade for the oilers. I am pleased with the trade as he strikes me as similar to Perron in that he is an actual NHL player with skill, can play either wing, and looks good by possession number. I don’t think the grit/sandpaper will be there, but a real NHLer all the way.

    by comparison
    Purcell
    Total NHL 401 75 153 228 -1 21 - 0 - 12 66 Shots: 778 Shooting %9.64

    Perron
    Total NHL 418 112 143 255 29 27 - 3 - 14 322 Shots 842 Shooting %13.30

    some similarities, big difference is PIM. Purcell 66, Perron 322

    Sail on Samwise, Welcome Teddy and …. “sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows and free sex” as guaranteed by LT

  70. dawgtoy says:

    What is Tampa up to?

  71. russ99 says:

    G Money,

    Look at the year he had with Tampa. Bottom six until he proves otherwise.

    Also, I hope this brings to an end the notion of three scoring lines, as we need to move away from that to compete.

  72. Traktor says:

    godot10:
    Yzerman and Maloney take MacT to school.

    Yzerman frees up over $5 million in cap space.Maloney gets Sam Gagner from a division rival and a 2nd player for a 6th round draft pick.

    Tampa smart for freeing up 5 million by dumping Gagner. Phoenix smart for spending 5 million buy picking up Gagner.

    You can’t make this stuff up..

    Cogliano returned a 2nd….

  73. Cobbler says:

    godot10,

    I would imagine MacT was aware of this. No? That all happened too quick to not be contrived.

    This strikes me as the old….”because Oilers”. A tired old refrain I wish we could abandon as a group.

    Or would you rather Gagner for a 6th???? Cuts out the middle man.

  74. Zelepukin says:

    cabbiesmacker: Stevie Y is a damn sharp cookie. Bet he grabbed a nice prospect off Arizona’s roster.

    hahahahahahaha

  75. thejonrmcleod says:

    JamesL,

    I don’t think Quincey has strong possession numbers.

  76. godot10 says:

    MacT this summer so far.

    2 years and $4.5 million per for a 3rd pairing D.

    2 year and $4.5 million per for a bottom six forward, while gifting Sam Gagner to a division rival for basically nothing.

  77. Spydyr says:

    LostBoy:
    For a 6th round pick!?!

    So Phoenix gets two players for nothing and Tampa clears space.

    Goes to show the value Gagner has with the other 29 NHL GM`s.Edmonton`s media sweetheart.

  78. Henry says:

    Well, if Grabovski and Kulemin go to Tampa, we’ll know who the fish was.

  79. JamesL says:

    thejonrmcleod,

    Rishaug’s words, not mine. Dellow agrees with you.

  80. eidy says:

    I think that as soon as word leaked of a buyout, PHX was on the phone gladly obliging to take Samwise off of their hands.

    Honest question, over the next 2 years who do you think will be the superior player. As they would have both been free agents in 2 years time

  81. godot10 says:

    Cobbler:
    godot10,

    I would imagine MacT was aware of this. No?That all happened too quick to not be contrived.

    This strikes me as the old….”because Oilers”. A tired old refrain I wish we could abandon as a group.

    I doubt MacT was aware of this. Giving Gagner to a division rival for nothing.

  82. FastOil says:

    Frank the dog: The size debate. Seems on this blog the big narrative equates to tall, weight is brushed aside.

    Agreed.

  83. JamesL says:

    dawgtoy,

    My guess? A run for Ehrhoff, Niskanen, and/or Stralman.

  84. cabbiesmacker says:

    Woodguy: The fancystat guys who watch every Leaf game in excruciating detail love Kulimen.

    Which ones I wonder? Zone starts is about the only place he really did decently.

    He;s nothing special WG but my biggest issue with him is the $$ he’ll command as a third liner. He’s not a legit 2nd line F. Even on the Oilers. No way does he play ahead of Perron unless this team Really doesn’t get it or goes completely stupid and moves Perron.

  85. russ99 says:

    godot10,

    Lol, true. But we’re also two players closer to a optimal mix that can get us playing for a playoff spot next March.

  86. AZOIL says:

    Well atleast I can keep tabs on Sam boy Dow here in the desert! Win/win for me! Crazy though that someone with so many defensive warts will be going to Dave Tippetts system! Maybe that is how it will actually work, enough to pick up the slack of sam!

  87. Cobbler says:

    godot10,

    And surprisingly with those moves improved the hockey club, so why the bitching?

  88. speeds says:

    So, would you rather have had the 6th rd pick, or Purcell?

    I think I’d have rather had the cap space, although it’s hard to be definitive without all the information required. Between that and not signing Nikitin, that’s 9M extra to spend, in UFA or other trade, and I think there’s a reasonable chance you get better value that way. However, it would be a gamble that you (a) actually get better value and (b) can get that value on deals expiring in 2yrs or less, if that’s something that’s important to you.

    *edit* news that TB is retaining salary does change the calculus of the trade a bit, since now you’re looking at only saving 3.2M in space vs. 4.8M

  89. Henry says:

    thejonrmcleod:
    JamesL,

    I don’t think Quincey has strong possession numbers.

    The worry with Quincey is why Detroit, LA, Colorado, (tampa, sort of) and Detroit again might be willing to lose such a fine player in such a short amount of time. Perhaps a Corsonish scent about him.

  90. LostBoy says:

    Spydyr,

    I guess I forget when anyone argued Gagner had significant value this summer.

  91. John Chambers says:

    Looks like the smart money this offseason is, well, having money.

  92. Cobbler says:

    godot10,

    I call horseshit on that. The group is too intertwined.

  93. Spydyr says:

    godot10: I doubt MacT was aware of this.Giving Gagner to a division rival for nothing.

    -29 last year Mac-T should have given something to the Coyotes to get him back in the west.

  94. eidy says:

    godot10,

    Bottom six forward might be selling Purcell short. But given that, if our 3rd line players are putting up 0.6 PPG I’d be satisfied

  95. Cobbler says:

    Spydyr,

    That is a very astute observation.

  96. wordbird says:

    At least MacT didn’t trade Gagner for Crombeen and a 6th.

    :/

  97. cabbiesmacker says:

    Zelepukin: hahahahahahaha

    Ohhhhh. Or uses his new found wealth to grab a very nice FA?

  98. PaperDesigner says:

    Why are people complaining about Purcell? Are we just so conditioned to the. Oilers making terrible moves we simply can’t process an actual quality player.

    I swear people, they could trade Gazdic for Crosby and you would find a way to complain. “It wrecks our salary structure…”

  99. Zelepukin says:

    Spydyr: -29 last year Mac-T should have given something to the Coyotes to get him back in the west.

    Totally. This is the best scenario possible. Hey Leon, just stand in the slot, no one will cover you.

  100. JamesL says:

    Even more wow:

    Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 1m
    FYI that Tampa Bay is retaining 1/3 of Gagner’s salary in trade to Arizona

  101. godot10 says:

    Ference: 3rd pairing defensemen on a 4 year contract. No move to boot.
    Nikitin: 3rd pairing defensemen earning $4.5 million per season.
    Matt Hendricks: 4th line forward earning $1.8 million per season (on a long duration contract).
    Boyd Gordon: According to MacT, wants him to be a $3 million dollar 4th line centre.

    This is not a particularly good trend in the “value for money” aspect of being a GM.

  102. John Chambers says:

    godot10,

    I think the ’2 years’ part is being undervalued.

    Sign Grabbo, Legwand, Strahlmam, or Niskanen if you like. The money wont hurt you but the term will. Half those guys will be bought out at some point.

    I prefer the flexibility of the shorter contracts. Remember when LeCavalier was the hot target for a 2nd line C?

  103. Cobbler says:

    wordbird,

    Fantastic. For truth.

  104. Lowetide says:

    speeds:
    So, would you rather have had the 6th rd pick, or Purcell?

    I think I’d have rather had the cap space, although it’s hard to be definitive without all the information required.Between that and not signing Nikitin, that’s 9M extra to spend, in UFA or other trade, and I think there’s a reasonable chance you get better value that way.However, it would be a gamble that you (a) actually get better value and (b) can get that value on deals expiring in 2yrs or less, if that’s something that’s important to you.

    Do you think this is MacT’s reaction to not getting all of the problems solved last summer?

  105. LostBoy says:

    speeds,

    Yes, disregarding Crombeen as a throw-in, three things changed hands: Gagner, Purcell, and cap space.

    So if the notion, say, of moving Gagner to NYI for two thirds in this year’s draft was ever on the table, the question is, what is better:

    two thirds and $4.8m in cap space

    or

    Purcell?

    The fact that the Oilers are doing things like Nikitin and Purcell says to me they figure they can’t find anyone better to take the money in UFA. But I don’t really know.

  106. Spydyr says:

    TB is retaining one third of Gagners salary this just keeps getting better and better.

  107. Cobbler says:

    JamesL,

    Ouch. Looking better on the hoodwinking of MacT already.

  108. danny says:

    Purcell is a wait and see considering the past season, but his rookie monarch season and his early NHL results keep a flame of hope burning… personally speaking, as an Oilers fan, it doesn’t hurt that he is a Newfoundlander ;)

    The fact that Gagner was a 6th round pick signifies one of two things…

    1) Oilers management are well aware of his shortcomings and the effect they have… which makes today’s trade a save-face 3-way that doesn’t offend highly sensitive Oilers fans that love gags. They distance themselves from gags true value. Face it, had they traded gags for a 6th… and not acquired a free agent, then it would have been bedlam.

    2) The Oilers were clueless that Gagner was worthless (due to his salary… mostly) and they had no idea what Tampa’s intentions were.

    I’m highly inclined to believe the first. Mainly because MacT as a coach was well aware of the ‘get vs give up’ reality, and there’s no way that 89 was a blind spot for him.

    The speedy turtle has been handed a watershed. He needs to figure things out. I wish him the best but I never could reconcile the offense with how much he surrendered. This will hopefully get his head straight. If being a 6th overall traded for a 6th round pick doesn’t, there wasn’t any hope to begin with.

  109. Rondo says:

    Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun · 3m
    FYI that Tampa Bay is retaining 1/3 of Gagner’s salary in trade to Arizona

  110. Jordan says:

    So, Gagner and the Yotes show up on Oct. 1 in pre-season.

    8 point night?

  111. godot10 says:

    JamesL:
    Even more wow:

    Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun 1m
    FYI that Tampa Bay is retaining 1/3 of Gagner’s salary in trade to Arizona

    What they would have had to pay in a buyout.

  112. G Money says:

    If we’d taken Crombeen (basically – Gazdic) and a 6th round pick (basically – zero value) for Gagner, I would have been crying in my cups.

    Gagner’s trade value is stunted and I figured we’d likely see LT’s “two picks” scenario.

    Purcell is a brilliant return – forced to sell low, at least we get to buy low at the same time.

    But Gagner for Crombeen and a sixth is basically having your lunch money taken and getting a swift kick in the junk as a bonus. [EDIT: and retaining salary - two swift kicks in the junk]

    Hope Stevie Y’s newly acquired cap space is worth it, because otherwise he’ll feel like sitting on a donut for the next month.

  113. eidy says:

    speeds,

    I’d take the NHL player. The 6th is nothing more than a lottery ticket and pushes the cluster back.

    Purcell is in the heart of his career and has scored at a 0.6 PPG clip. Can play either wing so gives some flexibility as well.

  114. RexLibris says:

    Pouzar:
    Dennis King and I approve this move!

    Kulda approved.

  115. cabbiesmacker says:

    Spydyr: -29 last year Mac-T should have given something to the Coyotes to get him back in the west.

    He’d have been a nice fit in Calgary no?

    Maybe MacT sold his soul for a deal that has SG playing 10 games for each of this years western conf playoff teams just to even the playing field a ltitle and move one small step closer.

  116. russ99 says:

    This doesn’t preclude other FA’s, just gets back a decent piece in a move that everyone knew we needed to make.

    I still think we need another D, a second line center and at least one more checking winger, preferably two.

    If they continue to repeat mistakes and rush Draisaitl because of this, I’ll be peeved.

  117. FastOil says:

    So Yzerman has really made his club respectable in a couple of years. Can we hold MacT to that? Please.

    Not that I don’t like him LT but I don’t like being punked constantly. Everyone competent shows the way, nothing much to figure out.

  118. Cobbler says:

    godot10,

    Appreciate the numbers, but at this stage of the game I point out:

    Ference = NHL player
    Nikitin = NHL player
    Hendricks = NHL player
    Gordon = NHL player

    I could give a darn about the cap.

    What did we have before?

    Over 1+ years I see progress.

  119. Lowetide says:

    FastOil:
    So Yzerman has really made his club respectable in a couple of years. Can we hold MacT to that? Please.

    Not that I don’t like him LT but I don’t like being punked constantly. Everyone competent shows the way, nothing much to figure out.

    I don’t think this was a punk deal. Oilers gave up a young player who had some issues without the puck and received a more veteran, if less offensive, option.

    I don’t think anyone can be upset about this deal, beyond being sad to see Sam go.

  120. dangilitis says:

    Woodguy:
    It’s a damn shame.

    Cogliano had to leave to play wing and thrived.

    Now Gagner leaves and I have no doubt he’ll play wing and thrive.

    The fact that Sam Gagner was the last C they drafted high until RNH speaks to the failure of the Oilers to realize what they had in Sam.

    Kept pounding square pegs into round holes.

    I hope that’s over.

    If they play Sam with Stamkos he’s putting up 70pts next year.

    Sam will always be a sublime passer.

    If Stamkos is his finisher, then…… man.

    You’re kidding me, right?

    Have you not been the most outspoken critic of Gagner for the last year?

    And now you’re pissed we traded him away? Forgive me for being confused with this seemingly contradictory post. Also, you may have to take back your prediction of 70 pts once he is paired with Korpikoski…

    Isn’t this a bit of a lateral move?
    Offensively: Gagner and Purcell have similar pts per game. Gagner has more offensive skills, and yet Purcell has put up the most pts in a single season. Gagner still has 4 years on Purcell and more upside but it’s a lot closer than we think. Possession stats clearly favour Purcell.

    Defensively: don’t have enough knowledge of Purcell but one would have to think he’s similar if not better.

    I also think the trade with TBL has to be taken in isolation, unless MacT knew in advance that Gagner was going to Arizona within an hour. Although, TBL’s actions are a bit of an indictment of both players, as this was clearly a salary dump of Purcell mediated through Gagner.

  121. Rondo says:

    godot10,

    Not sure you can trade players for buyouts

  122. Clarkenstein says:

    Germoil:
    Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 1m

    TB has traded Sam Gagner to PHX, I mean Arizona. In any case, Gagner is a Coyote. #TSN

    That’s why they’re called the “Lightning”!

  123. G Money says:

    Another understated aspect to Purcell: he’s resilient. Missed 3 games in 3 seasons.

  124. spoiler says:

    godot10: while gifting Sam Gagner to a division rival for basically nothing.

    Thank gord you’re not a journalist, or a historian.

  125. LostBoy says:

    Lowetide,

    Yeah, what happened between Tampa and Arizona has zero to do with the Oilers. The Oilers comparison is moving Gagner to whomever for whatever picks you might have been able to get and having the $4.8m in cap space versus moving him for Purcell. Purcell is more than I would have thought we could get. I’d rather have kept Gagner. But it’s as much NHL player as is reasonable if you’re going to move him this summer.

  126. speeds says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think this was a punk deal. Oilers gave up a young player who had some issues without the puck and received a more veteran, if less offensive, option.

    I don’t think anyone can be upset about this deal, beyond being sad to see Sam go.

    I don’t know LT, people can be as upset as they want, that’s their choice.

    I can’t say I’m upset about it, but honestly I’d probably have rather seen EDM keep Gagner and try him at wing first.

    Doesn’t mean I hate Purcell, or love Gagner, but I think that’s what I’d have done in this case.

  127. Ice Sage says:

    Wow. Lots of changes.

    Drafted #6 in 2007, Gagner should be the ‘prime of career’ veteran who should be a #1C by now, sheltering the Nuge and the German. Not happening and the Oilers can’t make any more excuses for him.

    Props to MacT for getting anything, let alone a fairly serviceable player.

  128. danny says:

    Lowetide
    I don’t think anyone can be upset about this deal, beyond being sad to see Sam go.

    Sad to see Sam go… or sad to see that Sam had to go.

  129. Zangetsu says:

    Gagner probably feels like shit now. Sad because he was a good character. Sever sources counted him as a possible captain. I wasn’t his biggest fan, and like the purcell return, but poor guy. That was a low blow by tampa.

  130. dangilitis says:

    @TSNRyanRishaug: Purcell with good possession stats, 53.6. They continue to pursue Fayne (55.3) this is no coincidence. They are placing a priority on this.

  131. Lucinius says:

    I don’t mind the return, honestly. Sure, Purcell is more expensive, cap-wise, than I’d like, but still. NHL player!

    I do find it amusing some people are moaning about the mis-spent money by MacT. For all we know, due to the talking period with free agents this year MacT may already know which free agents he will, and more importantly, will not have a shot with.

    Having cap space for free agents available is utterly meaningless if they do not decide to sign with you. Then you’re left with having to grab the dregs (and perhaps still overpay) or bring up prospects/border-line players instead.

    There is a significant portion of the player base that does not want to be in Edmonton, largely due to location and travel concerns (which are both perfectly fine reasons for not wanting to be here) barring a massive over-pay (and sometimes not even then). Saying MacT should just go out and ‘get’ players A, B, C, and D is fantasy league talk. In the real world it is never that easy, and quite often, simply impossible.

    So, yeah. MacT is paying guys like Purcell, NIkitin, and Hendricks more money than they deserve. On the other hand; they’ll actually be playing for the Oilers instead of guys like Gagner (liked him, but the man had the defensive awareness of a toddler and ruined Hemsky’s zone entries and must never be forgiven!), Fraser, and S. Mac.

  132. danny says:

    Zangetsu:
    Gagner probably feels like shit now.Sad because he was a good character. Sever sources counted him as a possible captain. I wasn’t his biggest fan, and like the purcell return, but poor guy. That was a low blow by tampa.

    His ego must have taken a serious blow… but hopefully that’s a good thing for him. He’s always had the skill. He strikes me as a smart guy too. Somehow he’s never really progressed in any meaningful way for quite some time. The only reasoning I can muster is denial and defiance. Maybe this hits it closer to home.

  133. Rondo says:

    dangilitis,

    Maybe his possession numbers were good because opponents were concentrating on Stamkos and St. Louis.

  134. Frank the dog says:

    Lucinius:
    I don’t mind the return, honestly. Sure, Purcell is more expensive, cap-wise, than I’d like, but still. NHL player!

    I do find it amusing some people are moaning about the mis-spent money by MacT. For all we know, due to the talking period with free agents this year MacT may already know which free agents he will, and more importantly, will not have a shot with.

    Having cap space for free agents available is utterly meaningless if they do not decide to sign with you. Then you’re left with having to grab the dregs (and perhaps still overpay) or bring up prospects/border-line players instead.

    There is a significant portion of the player base that does not want to be in Edmonton, largely due to location and travel concerns (which are both perfectly fine reasons for not wanting to be here) barring a massive over-pay (and sometimes not even then). Saying MacT should just go out and ‘get’ players A, B, C, and D is fantasy league talk. In the real world it is never that easy, and quite often, simply impossible.

    So, yeah. MacT is paying guys like Purcell, NIkitin, and Hendricks more money than they deserve. On the other hand; they’ll actually be playing for the Oilers instead of guys like Gagner (liked him, but the man had the defensive awareness of a toddler and ruined Hemsky’s zone entries and must never be forgiven!), Fraser, and S. Mac.

    This. Exactly.

  135. spoiler says:

    speeds:
    So, would you rather have had the 6th rd pick, or Purcell?

    I think I’d have rather had the cap space, although it’s hard to be definitive without all the information required.Between that and not signing Nikitin, that’s 9M extra to spend, in UFA or other trade, and I think there’s a reasonable chance you get better value that way.However, it would be a gamble that you (a) actually get better value and (b) can get that value on deals expiring in 2yrs or less, if that’s something that’s important to you.

    *edit* news that TB is retaining salary does change the calculus of the trade a bit, since now you’re looking at only saving 3.2M in space vs. 4.8M

    They’ve already had an opportunity to talk to all the UFAs. The Oil are definitely operating with more info than we are.

  136. Bling says:

    speeds: I don’t know LT, people can be as upset as they want, that’s their choice.

    I can’t say I’m upset about it, but honestly I’d probably have rather seen EDM keep Gagner and try him at wing first.

    Doesn’t mean I hate Purcell, or love Gagner, but I think that’s what I’d have done in this case.

    Reasonable.

    On the other hand, Gagner is less valuable as a winger than as a center, and if he doesn’t take to his new position his trade value would be nil, and he would have to be bought out next summer.

    Conversely, I don’t think we can acquire a Purcell type as a UFA this season (for me, he’s a better version of Clarkson), and if his shooting percentage had been at career norms he probably would’ve been untouchable.

    I like the move. MacT needs to be aggressive in improving the team this off-season, and so far he’s been doing it.

  137. book¡je says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think this was a punk deal. Oilers gave up a young player who had some issues without the puck and received a more veteran, if less offensive, option.

    I don’t think anyone can be upset about this deal, beyond being sad to see Sam go.

    Like the Hemsky deal, I am sad because it shouldn’t have come to this, not because of the return.

  138. RexLibris says:

    Gagner and Crombeen for a 6th.

    Oilers got a player, albeit at an inflated cap hit, and now boast an effective though expensive third line.

    I’ve paid attention to the Oilers’ drafting for as long as I’ve been a fan, but the 2007 draft was the first one I made the time to actually watch. I remember cleaning out the basement while watching it on TV and being pretty excited with Gagner at 6th. Plante and Nash seemed like they were relative unknowns but I figured, what the heck, Prendergast seems like he knows what he’s doing.

    Oh, lost innocence.

    Loved Gagner as a player and I always thought of him in terms of “its the size of the fight in the dog”. Dazzling skill, and so much promise.

    Nilsson – bought out.

    Gilbert – traded for a flat tire.

    Cogliano – moved for a pick.

    Gagner – brought back a warm body who fits on the roster.

    Of all of that group, his trade out of Edmonton is probably the best return, or at least that’s how one could look at it.

    One lesson I learned from watching the collapse of that young group, and something I’ve tried to keep in mind with this new core as well as impress on other fan bases undergoing rejuvenation, is that it is a far better bet to hold conservative estimates of a player’s skill level and that progression is neither guaranteed nor limitless.

    Sorry to see you go, Gagner. Hope you find success in Arizona, but if Tippett finally teaches you to mark your man in the slot I don’t think I’ll ever get over it.

  139. Lowetide says:

    book¡je: Like the Hemsky deal, I am sad because it shouldn’t have come to this, not because of the return.

    That’s exactly it.

  140. godot10 says:

    The net effect for Yzerman is basically turning Purcell, Crombeen, and a 2nd round draft pick into Jason Garrison and a college prospect LW (and a 6th and a 7th). Efficient GM’ing.

    With Drouin on the way.

  141. Lowetide says:

    speeds: I don’t know LT, people can be as upset as they want, that’s their choice.

    I can’t say I’m upset about it, but honestly I’d probably have rather seen EDM keep Gagner and try him at wing first.

    Doesn’t mean I hate Purcell, or love Gagner, but I think that’s what I’d have done in this case.

    I thought he might, you know? After the draft was done, and Gagner was still an Oiler, I thought well maybe they’ll give him a spin on wing and then he can be backup at center.

    Which is the next question of course. Center.

  142. danny says:

    book¡je: Like the Hemsky deal, I am sad because it shouldn’t have come to this, not because of the return.

    Who’s to blame?

    That’s where I see a difference here. Hemsky was a plus player. Gagner was not. Giving up on Hemmer isn’t the same as giving up up on Gagner.

    Speeds has a valid point that they never gave him a shot at being a plus winger, other than that… it should have come to this before it was obvious, to the astute hockey mind, that he was only worth a 6th round pick.

  143. dangilitis says:

    Rondo,

    I posted his comments to highlight what I hope is a true and positive acceptance of hockey analytics by Oilers management.

  144. Gerta Rauss says:

    I don’t know much about Purcell but I like the fact he is an actual NHL player

    I like what MacT is doing with the 2 year deals…Purcell, Nikitin, Gordon, Perron, all expire in 2 years

    We should be spending like drunken sailors for this year and next. The only number that matters right now is $69M, and we know that the cap is going up next year. All that money will drop off in 2 years and you’ve got some flexibility to add/edit the roster.

  145. mumbai max says:

    Frank the dog: The size debate. Seems on this blog the big narrative equates to tall, weight is brushed aside.

    There are two potential parts to ‘bigger’. Height is one of them. Taller IS bigger.

  146. Frank the dog says:

    book¡je: Like the Hemsky deal, I am sad because it shouldn’t have come to this, not because of the return.

    I’ve seen a lot of emotional narrative on this blog, but with Sam’s trade this is a 100% new team since the 2008 tank. No purpose served in trying to work out what could or should have been done differently. No more holdovers, the new team and new organization is now in place.

    Oiler domination to follow? when?

  147. flyfish1168 says:

    Wonder if the Oilers are planning to use their last compliance buyout and how they will do it.

  148. PunjabiOil says:


    don’t mind the return, honestly. Sure, Purcell is more expensive, cap-wise, than I’d like, but still. NHL player!

    I do find it amusing some people are moaning about the mis-spent money by MacT. For all we know, due to the talking period with free agents this year MacT may already know which free agents he will, and more importantly, will not have a shot with.

    Having cap space for free agents available is utterly meaningless if they do not decide to sign with you. Then you’re left with having to grab the dregs (and perhaps still overpay) or bring up prospects/border-line players instead.

    There is a significant portion of the player base that does not want to be in Edmonton, largely due to location and travel concerns (which are both perfectly fine reasons for not wanting to be here) barring a massive over-pay (and sometimes not even then). Saying MacT should just go out and ‘get’ players A, B, C, and D is fantasy league talk. In the real world it is never that easy, and quite often, simply impossible.

    So, yeah. MacT is paying guys like Purcell, NIkitin, and Hendricks more money than they deserve. On the other hand; they’ll actually be playing for the Oilers instead of guys like Gagner (liked him, but the man had the defensive awareness of a toddler and ruined Hemsky’s zone entries and must never be forgiven!), Fraser, and S. Mac.

    Well said.

  149. Bling says:

    Another factor to consider here is Arcobello.

    Small-ish sample size, but he was a good possession player and would represent a legitimate upgrade if he is substituted directly into Gagner’s spot.

  150. danny says:

    Final thought… if a significant commodity like Gagner doesn’t quell his fatal flaws in 7 seasons, it provides a brilliant canvas to identify the player or management as having the shortcomings. Not mutually exclusive.

  151. PaperDesigner says:

    mumbai max: There are two potential parts to ‘bigger’. Height is one of them. Taller IS bigger.

    And size is not simply about physicality either. Being a taller player can also mean having extra range with your stick. Chris Pronger was a pretty slight guy, but he he used the radius his height and stick gave him to full advantage.

    But all I care about is effective players, and I don’t care how they do it. Purcell seems like a really good middle six option. And they got him while actually gaining a little cap space. Solid, subtle move.

  152. spoiler says:

    This beats Bailey or Wilson or two 2nds… I was hoping for Bergenheim, but will happily take Purcell.

  153. striatic says:

    Bling: Another factor to consider here is Arcobello.
    Small-ish sample size, but he was a good possession player and would represent a legitimate upgrade if he is substituted directly into Gagner’s spot.

    That’s a huge gamble.

    I like Arcobello but the Oilers need a 2C with more games under their belt than Arcobello or Draisaitl.

    Maybe Arco does slot in there sooner rather than later – but on the opening night roster?

    Plus, there would be no room for injuries.

    I like Arco on the 4th line in a utility role, playing up the lineup whenever possible.

  154. Ice Sage says:

    Bling:
    Another factor to consider here is Arcobello.

    Small-ish sample size, but he was a good possession player and would represent a legitimate upgrade if he is substituted directly into Gagner’s spot.

    Yes, I’d like to think that MacTeakins liked what they saw in Arco, and (after giving SamG a rehab stint) are now ready to plug Arco into his slot. Arco won’t bring may 8 point nights or fancy SO moves but is more with the program. cheaper and relegatable if / when Chase, Lander or Khaira move on up.

  155. Henry says:

    danny: His ego must have taken a serious blow… but hopefully that’s a good thing for him. He’s always had the skill. He strikes me as a smart guy too. Somehow he’s never really progressed in any meaningful way for quite some time. The only reasoning I can muster is denial and defiance. Maybe this hits it closer to home.

    Another way to look at it is that Maloney saw him as a good deal at $4.8M and was willing to eat Riberio’s buyout as well.

    To them it is like a UFA signing.

  156. Frank the dog says:

    mumbai max: There are two potential parts to ‘bigger’. Height is one of them. Taller IS bigger.

    Take it to extremes, you have a person at 5’11″ that weighs 240 pounds, and a person who is 6’2″ at 170 pounds, and the tall skinny dude is bigger?

    I’m suggesting that height and weight both count, and in this conference its better to be long than heavy.

  157. RexLibris says:

    I keep hearing that Purcell is “soft”.

    I’m going to throw this out to the group who likely have more information collectively than I can attain on my own.

    The comments thus far have suggested that Purcell is a utility winger who has positive possession numbers and a larger frame, and we’ve also begun the discussion of whether he is a Pisani-type player.

    What in that makes him “soft”? Was Pisani soft? I don’t recall Pisani ever fighting (although he almost certainly did) and while he was a strong forechecker I don’t recall thundering bodychecks that made the defensemen look over their shoulders all the time – except during the playoff run.

    Perhaps I’m mis-remembering things here, or have simply forgotten.

    Is Purcell soft in the same way that Tom GIlbert was soft? Because there is more than a bit of subjectivity in that assessment. Or does he actively and consistently avoid contact on the ice? Seems unlikely that a player could do that and still manage even modest possession numbers.

    Just looking for clarification.

  158. FastOil says:

    Lowetide: I don’t think this was a punk deal. Oilers gave up a young player who had some issues without the puck and received a more veteran, if less offensive, option.

    I don’t think anyone can be upset about this deal, beyond being sad to see Sam go.

    The issues I see here are that Gagner didn’t want out, he was pushed out, and value was lost. Remember I haven’t supported Gagner, he isn’t my type of player.

    Sadly Purcell is the same player: easy minutes, non physical, really a winger, costs the same, but he’s 5 years older and probably largely done if ever there. Why is it the Oilers can’t seem to tell a player where to line up? What choice do they have typically? The Oilers didn’t get the best player. Pollock did.

    We all know this is why they are so bad. Gordon Hendricks Gagner wouldn’t have been the end of the world given the Oiler’s girl is Cappy Galore :).

  159. spoiler says:

    PaperDesigner: And size is not simply about physicality either. Being a taller player can also mean having extra range with your stick. Chris Pronger was a pretty slight guy, but he he used the radius his height and stick gave him to full advantage.

    But all I care about is effective players, and I don’t care how they do it. Purcell seems like a really good middle six option. And they got him while actually gaining a little cap space. Solid, subtle move.

    Reach is a key component of size.

  160. Younger Oil says:

    If the forward lines next year are

    RNH-Hall-Eberle
    Grabovski-Perron-Purcell
    Draisaitl-Goc-Yakupov
    Gordon-Hendricks-Arco

    I’ll be damn happy. Still have a couple more pieces to add, but I like the value MacT got out of Gagner.

  161. danny says:

    Henry: Another way to look at it is that Maloney saw him as a good deal at $4.8M and was willing to eat Riberio’s buyout as well.

    To them it is like a UFA signing.

    No respectable NHL GM sees Gagner as a deal at 4.8M. He’s still a project. An expensive one. I think the reality check that Gags is having might work well in Maloneys favour. Hopefully for gags the situation and coaches allow him to find a position/role to find himself.

  162. RexLibris says:

    Frank the dog: Take it to extremes, you have a person at 5’11″ that weighs 240 pounds, and a person who is 6’2″ at 170 pounds, and the tall skinny dude is bigger?

    I’m suggesting that height and weight both count, and in this conference its better to be long than heavy.

    I agree. The two are also subject to massive differences depending on personal circumstances.

    A friend in high school was only about 5’10″ but weighed nearly 200lbs. In track meets he would consistently outthrow competitors who were taller, heavier, and had more visibly defined muscle than he. His musculature was such that it was condensed and I swear he had bones of solid Oak.

    Physical parameters like height and weight are a fine start, but like boxcars, they don’t tell the whole story. Look at Draisaitl for instance. He is taller than some, heavier than many, but as MacTavish said, he has hips that sit very high on his frame, meaning while his center of balance may be high he can also lean over and create a lot of space using his legs and behind.

    I’m reminded of Henry Williams and Mike Clemons, both were shorter but also had a very low center of gravity along with extremely thick muscle mass that made them the self-propelling equivalent of a cannon ball.

  163. speeds says:

    spoiler: They’ve already had an opportunity to talk to all the UFAs. The Oil are definitely operating with more info than we are.

    With Gagner, yes, but they signed Nikitin before the window opened.

  164. Ryan says:

    wordbird:
    At least MacT didn’t trade Gagner for Crombeen and a 6th.

    :/

    You want a hot dog with this?

    Nicely done btw.

  165. spoiler says:

    FastOil: The issues I see here are that Gagner didn’t want out, he was pushed out, and value was lost. Remember I haven’t supported Gagner, he isn’t my type of player.

    Sadly Purcell is the same player

    If that’s the case, i.e. you believe Gagner has value and Purcell is the same player, then value wasn’t lost, but rather exchanged.

  166. Lowetide says:

    RexLibris:
    I keep hearing that Purcell is “soft”.

    I’m going to throw this out to the group who likely have more information collectively than I can attain on my own.

    The comments thus far have suggested that Purcell is a utility winger who has positive possession numbers and a larger frame, and we’ve also begun the discussion of whether he is a Pisani-type player.

    What in that makes him “soft”? Was Pisani soft? I don’t recall Pisani ever fighting (although he almost certainly did) and while he was a strong forecheckerI don’t recall thundering bodychecks that made the defensemen look over their shoulders all the time – except during the playoff run.

    Perhaps I’m mis-remembering things here, or have simply forgotten.

    Is Purcell soft in the same way that Tom GIlbert was soft? Because there is more than a bit of subjectivity in that assessment. Or does he actively and consistently avoid contact on the ice? Seems unlikely that a player could do that and still manage even modest possession numbers.

    Just looking for clarification.

    I’ve seen Purcell and wouldn’t consider him soft. He’s not Colton Orr, but I think that’s the best thing about him. He’s an actual NHL player who can help.

  167. ASkoreyko says:

    russ99:
    Purcell is more than I expected, he improves the bottom six and keeps us from overpaying on one of the FAs we need in those roles.

    russ99:
    G Money,
    Look at the year he had with Tampa. Bottom six until he proves otherwise.

    godot10:
    2 year and $4.5 million per for a bottom six forward, while gifting Sam Gagner to a division rival for basically nothing.

    I am sorry but can either of you please explain how a guy who was tied for 30th in the league in PTS for RWs qualify as a bottom 6 player? Seriously can you explain your rationale? He was a positive Corsi player and has been remarkably durable in his career so far.

    2013 – 30th in PTS for RW
    2012 – 14th in PTS for RW
    2011 – 15th in PTS for RW

    He would of been the 5th highest scoring player on the Oilers last season.

    I understand he is playing with Stamkos but its not like Gagner was playing with a bunch of scrubs either.

    Again as pointed out above, we sure do have high expectations for what a top 6 winger looks like for our 27th place Edmonton Oilers.

  168. oliveoilers says:

    Frank the dog: Take it to extremes, you have a person at 5’11″ that weighs 240 pounds, and a person who is 6’2″ at 170 pounds, and the tall skinny dude is bigger?

    I’m suggesting that height and weight both count, and in this conference its better to be long than heavy.

    Mass, volume and density. The deadly trio. Physics 101, I believe?

  169. Ryan says:

    As much as I like smart guys like Delow etc.. The one concept they never seem to grasp is that in their current iteration, the Oilers are like the fat girl with zits and a hair lip that no one wants to dance with. On that note, I’m okay with this trade.

  170. spoiler says:

    speeds: With Gagner, yes, but they signed Nikitin before the window opened.

    Pretty sure that was the point of the exercise, yes.

  171. Frank the dog says:

    oliveoilers: Mass, volume and density.The deadly trio.Physics 101, I believe?

    The point in the original response being that taller is not bigger in and of itself. So yes, physics still apply :)

  172. Jon K says:

    It will be extremely interesting to follow Gagner’s development and deployment under Dave Tippett. If Gagner falters it may show that even very good NHL coaching cannot help him at this point. If he blossoms under Tippett, well, I don’t think we’d be surprised by that, either.

  173. v4ance says:

    RexLibris:
    I keep hearing that Purcell is “soft”.

    I’m going to throw this out to the group who likely have more information collectively than I can attain on my own.

    The comments thus far have suggested that Purcell is a utility winger who has positive possession numbers and a larger frame, and we’ve also begun the discussion of whether he is a Pisani-type player.

    What in that makes him “soft”? Was Pisani soft? I don’t recall Pisani ever fighting (although he almost certainly did) and while he was a strong forecheckerI don’t recall thundering bodychecks that made the defensemen look over their shoulders all the time – except during the playoff run.

    Perhaps I’m mis-remembering things here, or have simply forgotten.

    Is Purcell soft in the same way that Tom GIlbert was soft? Because there is more than a bit of subjectivity in that assessment. Or does he actively and consistently avoid contact on the ice? Seems unlikely that a player could do that and still manage even modest possession numbers.

    Just looking for clarification.

    Someone on Twitter (Marc Spector?) mentioned that Purcell had less hits than Gagner last year and that represented a loss of “grit” when switching Gagner for Purcell. Because hits always tell the story of who is “grittier”

    Edit:
    Here’s the links:

    Sportsnet ‏@Sportsnet
    #Oilers get a size upgrade with acquisition of Purcell, but lose toughness: http://bit.ly/1ogPiB1 @SportsnetSpec pic.twitter.com/3LOOXf5HtK

    Robin Brownlee ‏@Robin_Brownlee
    Less grit in Purcell’s game than Gagner’s and Sam has better career PPG on bad teams. Sorry, I don’t find possession stats more compelling.

  174. Ryan says:

    Lowetide: I’ve seen Purcell and wouldn’t consider him soft. He’s not Colton Orr, but I think that’s the best thing about him. He’s an actual NHL player who can help.

    This. The Oilers need actual nhl players and lately, there’s not many willing to sign here.

  175. Jon K says:

    Lowetide: I’ve seen Purcell and wouldn’t consider him soft. He’s not Colton Orr, but I think that’s the best thing about him. He’s an actual NHL player who can help.

    The big, skilled winger who isn’t overly physical and appears lackadaisical. The Penner redux? We can only hope to be so lucky.

  176. speeds says:

    spoiler,

    not following you, what do you mean?

  177. Ryan says:

    v4ance: Someone on Twitter (Marc Spector?) mentioned that Purcell had less hits than Gagner last year and that represented a loss of “grit” when switching Gagner for Purcell.Because hits always tell the story of who is “grittier”

    Penner was butter soft in that respect, but he was a massive net front presence and still created difficulties for defenders. IMHO size matters and not necessarily in the Clutterbuck manner.

  178. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: I’ve seen Purcell and wouldn’t consider him soft. He’s not Colton Orr, but I think that’s the best thing about him. He’s an actual NHL player who can help.

    The 4 Physical Things that Matter Most (IMO)

    1. Can you protect the puck?
    2. Can you take a hit to make a play?
    3. Can you separate player and puck?
    4. Can you win more than your even share of puck battles?

    Whether you can do those things should show up in your relCor.

  179. speeds says:

    Ryan: This. The Oilers need actual nhl players and lately, there’s not many willing to sign here.

    We don’t have the information to know exactly how much hesitancy there is for some players (or which players would hesitate, and which wouldn’t if the money were right, whatever amount right is) to sign in EDM. Was EDM looking to sign Raymond, Gilbert, Hainsey, Penner or Grabovski, and they just weren’t willing to take EDM’s money? Or did EDM not want to sign them?

  180. Ryan says:

    speeds: We don’t have the information to know exactly how much hesitancy there is for some players (or which players would hesitate, and which wouldn’t if the money were right, whatever amount right is) to sign in EDM.Was EDM looking to sign Raymond, Gilbert, Hainsey, Penner or Grabovski, and they just weren’t willing to take EDM’s money?Or did EDM not want to sign them?

    True, but we can safely assume based on the fact that we’re a bottom feeder team in a challenged geographical location, that we’d be looking at considerable overpays.

  181. spoiler says:

    speeds:
    spoiler,

    not following you, what do you mean?

    I think it’s obvious the Oilers intended to sign Nikitin prior to the FA window. And even then they still had more information than we do. MacT made it clear with the signing that they had given up in the past on players that could help but wouldn’t sign here without a premium the Oil had been unwilling to pay… and that wasn’t going to happen any more.

    If one wants to convince FAs to come, start by showing your commitment to improving the roster. MacTivity is doing that.

  182. Ducey says:

    v4ance: Someone on Twitter (Marc Spector?) mentioned that Purcell had less hits than Gagner last year and that represented a loss of “grit” when switching Gagner for Purcell.Because hits always tell the story of who is “grittier”

    Edit:
    Here’s the links:

    Sportsnet ‏@Sportsnet
    #Oilers get a size upgrade with acquisition of Purcell, but lose toughness: http://bit.ly/1ogPiB1@SportsnetSpec pic.twitter.com/3LOOXf5HtK

    Robin Brownlee ‏@Robin_Brownlee
    Less grit in Purcell’s game than Gagner’s and Sam has better career PPG on bad teams. Sorry, I don’t find possession stats more compelling.

    If Browlee doesn’t like it, it must be a good deal.

    TP had 13 hits and 14 PIM in 81 games. That’s where the softness notion likely comes from. The notion that Gagner was any kind of a physical presence is pretty far fetched.

    TP had 3 goals and 14 apples on the PP last year so may be able to help there.

  183. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: I’ve seen Purcell and wouldn’t consider him soft. He’s not Colton Orr, but I think that’s the best thing about him. He’s an actual NHL player who can help.

    Not Colton Orr is a selling point.

    Moreau was a tough sonofagun, and that became tiresome quickly. The less Purcell is like Colton Orr, the better, as far as I’m concerned.

    I wrote the following over at FN to defend the idea of the Flames signing Gilbert, and I repeat it here because I think it speaks to possession stats, hits, and a player’s being perceived as “soft” –

    With regards to Gilbert, he is fairly consistent and reads plays rather well. He is not what fans and commenters like to call “physical” because when he separates the player from the puck he focuses on, surprisingly enough, the puck.

    He doesn’t take the player away from the puck but the other way around.

    Physicality and soft are misnomers that people use to imply that a player is not of the type to focus on separating a puck-carrying forward from his sense and/or teeth rather than prioritizing the puck and the transition game.

    Many of us like to say that we prefer smarter hockey players who can play a possession game and create chances with puck retrieval and distribution. Tom Gilbert is one of those players, albeit not an elite one, he is an effective player asset of that type.

    I like Tom Gilbert. I don’t like the Flames. But I still suggest that signing him would be a smart move.

    Sam Gagner was going to be a 3rd line winger this season. If Purcell is a better option at that position, then the team is better for the move. That he and Crombeen together only recouped a 6th round pick speaks to the fact that the Oilers received fair value relative to their terms on the move.

  184. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide: Which is the next question of course. Center.

    The saddest answer: Draisaitl

    Oh, let our cherished child go home to PA and run free.

  185. oliveoilers says:

    Frank the dog: The point in the original response being that taller is not bigger in and of itself. So yes, physics still apply

    LOL, that’s why I’m 6’2″, 200lbs and still look I’m so thin I have to run around in the rain to get wet. Leon, however, looks and moves a Panzer IV heading west from Berlin. When I pick up the Thanksgiving Turkey, I weigh the same as him, despite me being built like a racing snake!

  186. RexLibris says:

    @Real_ESPNLeBrun: Tampa sends Nate Thompson to Anaheim for 4th and 7th in 2015. Busy day for Steve Yzerman!

    Yzerman is making some space.

    I think his shopping list and MacTavish’s are likely very similar. Grabovski, Kulemin, Erhoff, NIskanen, and so on.

    Both GMs feeling pressure to make their respective rebuilds productive this season.

    Factor in weather, fan base and perception of talent (specifically Stamkos) and I think the Oilers come in 2nd place to many potential suitors.

  187. Ducey says:

    Cullen has a nice overview: http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/story/?id=456047

    Says TP is “a solid fit as a second line winger”

  188. danny says:

    IMO, the only time hits matter in deciding between two players, is when GF/GA are the same. So this chatter about Percell being soft is kinda silly considering his on ice results outpace Gagner by a margin.

    Unless of course we are trying to fill the truculence role. I’d guess gagner has a better truculence deke than Purcell.

  189. RexLibris says:

    Scott Cullen on the Gagner move.

    http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/story/?id=456047

  190. spoiler says:

    I can’t think of any better measure of what UFAs think of Edmonton as a destination than the Nikitin contract.

  191. speeds says:

    spoiler,

    It’s possible that’s part of why they wanted Nikitin in the fold, and if so we’ll see how that works. I don’t know that overpaying Nikitin is enough to convince, say, Stralman and Grabovsky to sign, and whether that would work any better than simply giving the overpay to those players instead of Nikitin.

    And yeah, there’s absolutely no question they have more info than us.

  192. Lois Lowe says:

    I am fine with the trade and fine with the return. I don’t give two shits about cap space because a) Samwise was taking up that space anyway, b) Purcell, by all accounts, is an actual NHL player, c) the Oilers are nowhere near a capstrung team, and d) free agents are not lining up to come to Edmonton (which is weird because West Ed is pretty sweet and it’s the Festival City)!

  193. RexLibris says:

    I’m thinking the Purcell trade will fall somewhere between the Perron and Hendricks deal in terms of fan satisfaction when all is said and done.

    Perron was an out-and-out homerun (sorry for the mixed metaphors there) of a deal while the Hendricks one, while bringing in a popular player, has some warts to it (namely contract term and cap hit).

    If Purcell is this club’s alternative to chasing someone like Rene Bourque then I’m content with the result.

  194. Numenius says:

    With what’s happened so far, I’ve been wondering how much money is available for a UFA 2C.

    Using Capgeek, I figure it’ll be about 6.1 million.

    That’s with signing Fayne for 3.5, Schultz 3.0, Petry 4.8, Gazdic 0.7, Draisaitl 2.0 (not sure how the bonus stuff works). That fills up 22 roster spots and leaves room for the 2C.

    Adjust any of those numbers and you adjust the 6.1 million.

  195. danny says:

    Salient points from Cullens article (IMO):

    Purcell, 28, is a skilled winger with good size, though he doesn’t always use that size to his maximum advantage. He’s missed a total of three games over the past four seasons and his 194 points over that time ranks 57th in the league. He’s a productive player.

    A fine complement to other skilled forwards, Purcell has posted strong relative posession stats, enough that he’s a solid fit as a second-line

    Gagner is a 24-year-old who has never surpassed the 49 points that he scored as a rookie, but is also the second-leading scorer from the 2007 Draft class, behind only first overall pick Patrick Kane.

    It’s certainly possible that Gagner can recover his game, because he’s still relatively young, but he’s been a possession disaster over the past couple seasons and at least part of that reflects his defensive shortcomings.

    Where this fits for Arizona is that they have two-way centres that can effectively protect Gagner. With Martin Hanzal and Antoine Vermette available to face tougher match-ups, Gagner can be utilized in a role that focuses on offensive production.

  196. RexLibris says:

    Numenius:
    With what’s happened so far, I’ve been wondering how much money is available for a UFA 2C.

    Using Capgeek, I figure it’ll be about 6.1 million.

    That’s with signing Fayne for 3.5, Schultz 3.0, Petry 4.8, Gazdic 0.7, Draisaitl 2.0 (not sure how the bonus stuff works). That fills up 22 roster spots and leaves room for the 2C.

    Adjust any of those numbers and you adjust the 6.1 million.

    I had heard that Grabovski wanted $5 million and term (5 years) to sign.

    Does an extra half million reduce the term by a year or two?

  197. RexLibris says:

    danny:
    Salient points from Cullens article (IMO):

    Yeah, but what does Steve Simmons think? He’s seen him with his own eyes, after all, and they don’t lie.

    :)

  198. spoiler says:

    RexLibris: I had heard that Grabovski wanted $5 million and term (5 years) to sign.

    Does an extra half million reduce the term by a year or two?

    I think the proper question is does $5.5M get him talking to us?

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