STANLEY! (2012, 2014)

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  1. Jon K says:

    And just like that it was over. All told it was an entertaining finals. Williams, what a player. Not the most physically gifted, not the flashiest, just a good hockey player. Still remember the early fancy stats identifying him as a player with the Canes when he exploded after the lockout.

  2. nycoil says:

    Congrats to the Kings! Best team won. And another win for FenClose!
    Nice moment seeing Greene pass the Cup to Stoll.

    Don’t know what they said on the CBC feed but on NBC Quick said, “We will enjoy this tonight and from tomorrow it will be back to one of 30 teams battling for the Cup. It all starts all over again. And it doesn’t get any easier.” Sutter added, “We’re already working on our training camp and whining about our schedule.” THAT is the mentality of a champion and I hope our young men heard that.

    Now officially on to the off season and the fun begins for us Oiler fans!

  3. dangilitis says:

    Justin Williams, Patrick o Sullivan, Erik cole. LA 150, Carolina -20, Edmonton -130…

  4. anonymous says:

    I spent a lot of years hating the Kings. The Gretzky trade was a wake up to reality for me, prior to that I lived in a fantasy land where the oilers were going to continue winning cups and breaking offensive records forever. Innocence lost.

    Here’s hoping Darryl Sutter decides he wants to come back to Alberta to finish his coaching career.

  5. mumbai max says:

    Marcel Dionne was fantastic. And Juha Widing. Did Rogie win the Vezina? Oops sorry, sometimes my 70′s hockey brain takes over.

    I watched the overtime. First sustained watching of the playoffs. I have switched to baseball officially, but it was great to watch the sustained action of two teams down to the wire. It is a shame the Rangers did not split the first two games, the series would have been much more dramatic. But the best team won, so that is that.

    Bring on the draft. NOW the Oilers season starts!!

    Expecting BOLD and THE UNEXPECTED all rolled into on delectable plate of trades and signings.

  6. Woodguy says:

    Hearing Vin Scully congratulate the Kings is cool:

    http://t.co/qUFn3hpIcE

  7. Woodguy says:

    Draglikepull @draglikepull · 8h
    The best possession team in the NHL won the Cup by beating the 2nd, 3rd, and 6th best possession teams. Kings really earned this.

  8. Woodguy says:

    Robert Paredes @RobertJFTC · 8h
    Justin Williams wins the Conn Smythe. Almost seems like this is the #CorsiHockeyLeague

  9. Woodguy says:

    Bower Power ‏@So_Truculent 7h
    Dean Lombardi prepared an extensive report on a potential Olympic player. Brian Burke dreamed about one. Who has two cups in three years?

  10. Lowetide says:

    Lombardi works on a different level

    http://www.puckrant.com/Slapshot/JUST_LIKE_JOHN_WAYNE

  11. Lowetide says:

    And he’s been doing it for awhile

    http://www.puckrant.com/Slapshot/OH_THAT_LOMBARDI

  12. Woodguy says:

    Kings need a good LHD to replace Mitchell if he retires.

    Somehow Lombardi will trade Richards to EDM and Marincin/Klef will go back the other way.

  13. RexLibris says:

    Meh. Kings could’ve done it in four straight if we’d traded them Sam Gagner.

    :)

    Is this going to be the decade of the Kings/Hawks/Bruins?

  14. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    Kings need a good LHD to replace Mitchell if he retires.

    Somehow Lombardi will trade Richards to EDM and Marincin/Klef will go back the other way.

    I can’t see MacT trading Marincin for anything but a Coburn. Not saying that’s wise, but I do believe that’s what he’ll do.

  15. Lowetide says:

    RexLibris:
    Meh. Kings could’ve done it in four straight if we’d traded them Sam Gagner.

    :)

    Is this going to be the decade of the Kings/Hawks/Bruins?

    I’m not so sure about the Bruins. Chiarelli traded Seguin last summer, and this year they’re rumored to be dealing Marchand and or Boychuk. Seems to me he’s doing a really good job of turning 10′s and jacks and kings into sixes and sevens.

    We’ll see, but I think he’s more Shero than Lombardi at this point in time.

  16. sliderule says:

    Lowetide,

    If they trade Marincin and Perron for Coburn it will be the continuation of the insanity.Over the last twenty games Marincin was at least our second best defender and maybe our best.
    If they won’t take Perron and Musil then walk away.The oilers have to at least break even on a trade for Perron and giving up Marty or Klefbom would be a huge loss .

  17. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I can’t see MacT trading Marincin for anything but a Coburn. Not saying that’s wise, but I do believe that’s what he’ll do.

    I was just looking at PHI.

    In deep shit again because Snider.

    I had that exact thought.

    ” 6 years of Marincin for 2 years of Coburn is not a good deal. Marincin may be better today”

    I can see it happening though.

  18. sliderule says:

    Kings show how fast you can go from shithouse to penthouse.
    In 2009 they picked Schenn at five and we took MPS at ten.
    Since 2009 they have one two cups while oilers even with three first overalls flounder.
    However the oilers have added another management type who happens to be good friend of Lowe so be happy.

  19. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Woodguy: I was just looking at PHI.

    In deep shit again because Snider.

    I had that exact thought.

    ” 6 years of Marincin for 2 years of Coburn is not a good deal.Marincin may be better today”

    I can see it happening though.

    Oh, I see you have a big problem there… We’ve got lots of problems here… unfortunately, I’ve grievously misidentified what they are, here let me solve your problem and worsen mine.

    This also fits with any situation that sees the Oilers trade Gagner for Umberger or Richards or… or…

  20. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    Kings show how fast you can go from shithouse to penthouse.
    In 2009 they picked Schenn at five and we took MPS at ten.
    Since 2009 they have one two cups while oilers even with three first overalls flounder.
    However the oilers have added another management type who happens to be good friend of Lowe so be happy.

    From 02/03 -08/09 (inclusive) they didn’t make the playoffs.

  21. hags9k says:

    And back midseason this comments board was writing off Quick… What a goalie.

  22. nycoil says:

    Woodguy:
    Draglikepull @draglikepull·8h
    The best possession team in the NHL won the Cup by beating the 2nd, 3rd, and 6th best possession teams. Kings really earned this.

    There’s one way of looking at it. Best FenClose team, best possession team won the Cup. The other way of looking at it is the Kings have 4 lines where each player averages over 200 pounds.
    Now, we know which narrative is the right one; the question is, will MacT listen to Sutter- “If you’re defending you don’t have the puck” or to the MSM, which is going to tell us the Oilers need to trade Gagner for Umberger, Yak for Upshall, Eberle for Evander Kane because the forwards are too small?

  23. nycoil says:

    hags9k,

    Quick’s save percentage in these playoffs was nothing to write home about. However, he did get better as they went deeper in the playoffs. He had his fair share of soft goals allowed this postseason, but he did tighten it up in the finals. Game 3 he was great, and he made the key, occasional 3rd period and OT stops when required. Still, I think he was helped by how well his team kept chances to the outside for the most part.

    Don’t get me wrong, very good goalie. I don’t think he was the reason the Kings won, though.

  24. sliderule says:

    Woodguy,

    That true and we were only six points better than Kings that year.

    However we have gone from 20th to 27th in the five years since 09.No improvement there.

    I am starting to despair of them making the intelligent moves to improve.

    We could be in an islander style rebuild.

  25. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Wings sign Euro free agent Tomas Nosek.

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=102439

    nice pickup. Hope MacT can land one of these Euro dudes.

  26. hags9k says:

    nycoil,

    Agree to disagree. To my eye, he was the MVP. Imagine an injury in warm-ups to any one King. They would pray it’s not Quick. Williams was terrific for sure, (and Carter) but Quick is the spine of the Kings. Always at his best when it was on the line, every series.

  27. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    hags9k:
    And back midseason this comments board was writing off Quick…What a goalie.

    his uninspiring .911 in the playoffs and .915 for the season after a .902 are the problem.

    Those are in the Dubnyk career range. Not good. hovering below replacement level.

    Don’t believe the MSM hype or the give him the credit his team deserves.

    He’s a perfectly adequate, or slightly worse, goaltender. That’s all.

  28. hags9k says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Wow. I completely disagree. A computer might agree with that but as someone who watched the games, you can’t put a % on the quality of saves he made at crucial times. There is a human element to the game, they aren’t robots.

    Dubnyk? CmON Rom.

  29. Woodguy says:

    sliderule:
    Woodguy,

    That true and we were only six points better than Kings that year.

    However we have gone from 20th to 27th in the five years since 09.No improvement there.

    I am starting to despair of them makingthe intelligent moves to improve.

    We could be in an islander style rebuild.

    I prefer to think of it as a Thrashers type re-build but one that makes the owner a ton of money.

  30. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    hags9k:
    nycoil,

    Agree to disagree.To my eye, he was the MVP.Imagine an injury in warm-ups to any one King.They would pray it’s not Quick.Williams was terrific for sure, but Quick is the spine of the Kings.Always at his best when it was on the line, every series.

    nah. Jones would be fine. perhaps even an upgrade.

  31. Lowetide says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: his uninspiring .911 in the playoffs and .915 for the season after a .902 are the problem.

    Those are in the Dubnyk career range. Not good. hovering below replacement level.

    Don’t believe the MSM hype or the give him the credit his team deserves.

    He’s a perfectly adequate, or slightly worse, goaltender. That’s all.

    Quick now passes into icon status, you can’t touch him. On the other hand, he’s not an elite goalie and will be paid like one. So, that’s a weakness.

  32. nycoil says:

    Woodguy: I prefer to think of it as a Thrashers type re-build but one that makes the owner a ton of money.

    If that’s the case, let’s just hope we don’t make the Tkachuk trade when we are battling for 8th next spring (which I still think we will do, but probably just miss and finish 9th or 10th–I still am the most optimistic I’ve been since 2009., no idea why- just a feeling. And I thought we had no chance of the playoffs last summer despite the prevailing sentiment around here being we had a shot. Don’t let me down this summer, MacT!)

  33. hags9k says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Maybe, but he also might have shat his Tacklas under the pressure. Quick is a proven clutch champion, despite his average statistical appearance. The great ones have an extra gear available when it’s on the line, he doesn’t care about a .915 in the regular season. He cares about 16 wins in spring.

  34. hags9k says:

    Lowetide,

    Not elite? Guys! He’s top 5 no sweat! Did you see some of those saves?

  35. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    Wings sign Euro free agent Tomas Nosek.

    http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=102439

    nice pickup. Hope MacT can land one of these Euro dudes.

    I bet Principe was drooling over this signing, hoping the Oilers would get him. “You could say he has a *wait for it* Nosek for the net!”

  36. nycoil says:

    Jonathan Quick’s record was a sparkling 16-4 when the Kings won the Stanley Cup championship in 2012. His goals-against average was a puny 1.41. His save percentage was a remarkable .946 and he recorded three shutouts. Elite. Conn Smythe-worthy.

    Quick’s record going into his second Stanley Cup Final appearance was a less-than-awe-inspiring 12-9. His goals-against average was a pedestrian 2.86. His save percentage was a lackluster .906 and he had one shutout.

    He basically nearly cost the Kings the first round by crapping the bed vs. San Jose. His team carried him this time around until he finally made some key stops in the Finals. You have to look at the whole body of work, not just isolated 10-bell saves, which I agree, he made a few against the Rangers. LA Kings the team won this time, and had they instead used Scrivens in net, I think they would have won this year anyway, and probably sweat a little less in the first couple of rounds.

  37. Ice Sage says:

    nycoil: There’s one way of looking at it. Best FenClose team, best possession team won the Cup. The other way of looking at it is the Kings have 4 lines where each player averages over 200 pounds.
    Now, we know which narrative is the right one; the question is, will MacT listen to Sutter- “If you’re defending you don’t have the puck” or to the MSM, which is going to tell us the Oilers need to trade Gagner for Umberger, Yak for Upshall, Eberle for Evander Kane because the forwards are too small?

    4 lines of skilled big men + astute management/coaching + mobile D corps = great fancy stats -> Cup contender

    But please don’t call it the LA model… it’s always been thus

  38. nycoil says:

    Ice Sage,
    Now you are putting words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

  39. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    hags9k:
    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Wow.I completely disagree.A computer might agree with that but as someone who watched the games, you can’t put a % on the quality of saves he made at crucial times.There is a human element to the game, they aren’t robots.

    Dubnyk? CmON Rom.

    Ugh. I watched the games too. And, last I checked, I’m not a robot (eerk, eek, op, orp, bizzzzz)

  40. Ice Sage says:

    nycoil:
    Ice Sage,
    Now you are putting words in my mouth. I said no such thing.

    Didn’t mean to do that, Nycoil – just trying to make the point that strong players make for winning teams (and that is now captured in possession#’s as well as scoreboard). Get puck, keep puck, score, repeat!

  41. G Money says:

    Lowetide: I’m not so sure about the Bruins. Chiarelli traded Seguin last summer, and this year they’re rumored to be dealing Marchand and or Boychuk. Seems to me he’s doing a really good job of turning 10′s and jacks and kings into sixes and sevens.
    We’ll see, but I think he’s more Shero than Lombardi at this point in time.

    Yeah, I think the book should be out at least a little bit on Chiarelli.

    The Bruins have had Chara to build around since 2006-2007.

    Not coincidentally, the years before that the B’s were mostly a mid-pack team, sometimes doing well, sometimes missing the playoffs, not making it past the second round very often.

    After Chara’s year – and I think Chiarelli’s reputation really comes from the acquisition of Chara plus having built a good deep team around Chara and Thomas – the B’s have been consistently a contender ever since.

    But Chara is now 37, and (to my eyes at least, just watch a couple of games), he really seemed to be showing his age these playoffs.

    Like Lowe post-Pronger or the Red Wings post-Lidstrom, Chiarelli and the Burins may have a much tougher time to of it without Chara to build around.

  42. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: http://www.puckrant.com/Slapshot/OH_THAT_LOMBARDI

    Almost immediately after drafting Drew Doughty, trades Visnovsky for Stoll and Greene. Aging but still good veteran blueliner (no longer needed because of Doughty) for two young vets entering the prime of their career with Stanley Cup finals experience under their belt.

  43. nycoil says:

    Ice Sage,

    Cool! Agreed!

  44. nycoil says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Ugh. I watched the games too. And, last I checked, I’m not a robot (eerk, eek, op, orp, bizzzzz)

    If it talks like a robot and it walks like a robot…”Johnny Five is alive!”
    Romulus Shortcircuitosis

  45. HiddenDarts says:

    Wow. Quick’s an “average goalie” who “crapped the bed” against San Jose. I’m not sure if you guys saw the “bed crapping” games against San Jose, but the Kings D were giving up chances that would make the Oilers blush.

    And LT. Wha? Quick is a weakness? Did someone hijack your login?

  46. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    The staying power of narratives for goalies in team sports is astonishing.

  47. hags9k says:

    Not even Johnny five would consider starting Jones over Quick in the Cup finals.

    I understand where LT and Rom are coming from, I think, SV% is their god, and yes the narratives for cup goalies likely puts their perceived value out of whack and sure an argument can be made to say Quick will be paid too much.

    But… we somehow need to apply the math to the goalies in a better way, if the current results say Quick is adequate, average, Dubnykesque.

    I’m serious this is too important, playoff hockey should just be called goaltending at times.

    Maybe SV% close? with a multiplier for playoffs and elimination games?

    And yes when I read Rom first post on SV% I read it in a robot voice. Haha sorry, I know I’m annoying y’all with saw-him-good.

  48. hags9k says:

    nycoil,

    An argument could be made that he was less valuable in 2012 when the Kings played lights out and steamrolled their way to the cup.
    (nah, he was unconscious that spring, a worthy CS winner)

    But this time around they had to grind, in a bunch of backs against the wall games, and Jonathan Quick was an absolute stud in every one of them. I bet he’s more proud of this cup, on a personal level.

  49. nycoil says:

    hags9k,

    He well could be more proud for battling through this time around. I watched all but one LA playoff game this year and two years ago I picked all Kings in my playoff pool as a hunch so I watched them then and saw him great. I am as guilty of “saw-him-good” as anyone. I definitely saw a more prone to bad goal Quick this time around.

    Now, I haven’t said he is mediocre. I think I said “he is very good.” I didn’t mention Dubnyk but I did Scrivens, who had a better save percentage this season playing behind the same Kings as Quick did. Quick’s save percentage was weak in round 1, round 2, round 3 this year. It was weak during the regular season. It was weak the year before. I think all LT and ROM are doing is pointing this out. And I tend to agree. He was elite 2 years ago. He isn’t elite right now, but he is still very good in my books.

    Now if we’re going to argue he is more like Fuhr in that though his save percentage may be middle of the pack but you want him starting a big game, well that’s a different narrative and I am not here to argue that one.

    Does that make sense or am I really out to lunch in thinking he got better in the Finals but he wasn’t outstanding before that?

  50. hags9k says:

    nycoil,

    Not out to lunch at all. He was better in the finals but I thought he was great in all 3 series once they were facing elimination. The Fuhr comparison is right on the money. How can we calculate the “money goalie” factor. What value do you put in how a goalie’s past effects the confidence and mindset of the team? This is so important.

    I am really just saying that we need a better way to evaluate goalies that factors in things like that and performance under pressure. We can’t just say goalie A can be plugged in for goalie B if their reg season SV% is the same. Not all goalies are able to consistently come up big, when it’s all on the line. How can we put the numbers to work to better rank the value of these goalies? Because based on SV%, if the conclusion is we are seeing an average goalie in Quick, that’s not good enough in my opinion.

  51. rickithebear says:

    LAK
    Eite inside 20ft SAVE% goalie

    5 Top 10 EVGA Dmen
    All strong Box protect/ low shot success DMNE
    6 strong EVA assist Dmen

    Deep EVG scoring depth.
    3 of the top 25 FO Centers in Game. A huge Pocession Advantage start.
    Good Physical pressure and limits outman situations.
    Good turnover ratio.

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