HEAD TO HEAD: MACGREGOR VERSUS MCKENZIE!!!

NYC Oil suggested we take Bob McKenzie’s list and place Edmonton’s draft record alongside to compare. Put simply, Edmonton’s pick is placed next to Bob McKenzie’s best available so we can compare and contrast. It’s one more way to terrorize the scouts, but perhaps it’s also a chance to praise them for their brilliant work! As always, a giant tablespoon of luck is required at the draft table.

2007 OILERS DRAFT (PRENDERGAST)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
 6 Alexei Cherepanov 5 Sam Gagner 7 0-481
 15 Angelo Esposito 8 Alex Plante 32 0-10
 21 Nick Petrcki 14 Riley Nash 33 0-110

This is courtesy a link NYC Oil provided in the previous thread and I thank him for it. The reasons range from tragic to comic, but Edmonton exited round one of the 2007 draft lucky and good. The tragic end of Cherepanov is a difficult subject even today, and Esposito was (as Gare Joyce described at the time) unworthy of a first round pick. Nick Petricki is noted as “the most physical player in the draft” but it wasn’t enough. Should have been tougher.

2008 OILERS DRAFT (STU MACGREGOR’S FIRST YEAR)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
22 Tyler Cuma 16 Jordan Eberle 29 1-275

This is MacGregor’s first year, and of course Eberle’s selection is the only one in the top 60 Edmonton enjoyed in 2008. Clearly the Eberle selection was superior to the ‘next best’ on the McKenzie list, and I think Oiler fans universally credit the Oilers with hitting a home run with the pick.

 

2009 OILERS DRAFT (STU MACGREGOR’S SECOND YEAR)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
10 Dmitri Kulikov 9 Magnus Paajarvi 10 313-218
40 Drew Shore 30 Anton Lander HM 67-94

The best player in the group is Kulikov, I think we can say he offered better value to Edmonton at that time. I don’t think it was a criminal oversight however, Paajarvi brings some nice things and has a significant GP total. Shore over Lander isn’t a clear win either way, both show promise and both have some ways to go. Overall, I’d say this isn’t a draft to get emotional about, but having Kulikov now would be pretty cool.

 

2010 OILERS DRAFT (STU MACGREGOR’S THIRD YEAR)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
 1 Taylor Hall 1 Taylor Hall 1 246-246
 31 Jon Merrill 22 Tyler Pitlick 25 52-10
 46 Tyler Toffoli 27 Martin Marincin 71 72-44
 48 Calvin Pickard 31 Curtis Hamilton 57 0-0

They got the important one right, and for me that has value. Merrill over Pitlick looks good today, I don’t think there was a lot of difference on draft day. Toffoli fell and Edmonton liked Marincin better, I think they should and would have been happy with either pick. Calvin Pickard and Curtis Hamilton both look like AHL prospects trying to make that next step. McKenzie’s list looks better today, I don’t see any evidence of wild and crazy activity on Edmonton’s part. Luck (and injury) have certainly impacted the 2010 draft.

 

2011 OILERS DRAFT (STU MACGREGOR’S FOURTH YEAR)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
1 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 1 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 1 182-182
19 Tyler Biggs 15 Oscar Klefbom 21 0-17
31 Brandon Saad 22 David Musil 41 126-0

Oilers got it right with the No. 1 overall pick, and I suspect time will give them the edge in the Klefbom-Biggs competition. Brandon Saad fell badly, all the way to No. 43 overall, and is currently making a lot of teams (including Edmonton) look bad for passing on him.

 

2012 OILERS DRAFT (STU MACGREGOR’S FIFTH YEAR)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
1 Nail Yakupov 1 Nail Yakupov 1 111-111
32 Matt Finn 21 Mitchell Moroz 56

We’re a little early to make a call on this one, the second-round picks are wide apart (35 slots, over a round) so that’s a lot of daylight. Finn and Moroz have blossomed, and it may be a case of both sides succeeding.

 

2013 OILERS DRAFT (STU MACGREGOR’S SIXTH YEAR)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
7 Valeri Nichushkin 6 Darnell Nurse 9 79-0
56 Eric Comrie 37 Marco Roy 59 0-0

I know several Oiler fans who remain very upset about Edmonton passing on Nichushkin. He certainly had an impact this past season and it’s hard to argue at this point that was not best player available. It’s important to wait five years, but early arrows favor the Russian. The second-round pick features a goalie against a skill forward, ordinarily you’d like that bet for the Oilers but we’ll see how it looks down the line.

 

2014 OILERS DRAFT (STU MACGREGOR’S SEVENTH YEAR)

Pick BM’s Best Selection BM No. Oilers Choice BM No. NHL GP
3 Sam Bennett 3 Leon Draisaitl 4

This promises to be an interesting comparison over the next few winters. I don’t think there’s quite the anger over this selection that we saw one year ago, but the Draisaitl-Bennett discussion has barely begun and will no doubt occupy much of the future conversation on this blog and others.

 

SUMMARY

  • Major win for the McKenzie list—Brandon Saad over David Musil.
  • Major win for the MacGregor list—Jordan Eberle over Tyler Cuma.

I’m not sure there’s a list that’s clearly superior, but welcome your input! I guess we could list Gagner as a home run for Edmonton, but I’m not going to because the other man didn’t get his swings at the plate. Some may feel Nichushkin has already won the race with Nurse, I’ll respectfully suggest we wait for a time.

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85 Responses to "HEAD TO HEAD: MACGREGOR VERSUS MCKENZIE!!!"

  1. Yak2 says:

    For the Gagner selection, Voracek is a comparable as well. It would be nice to have Voracek on the team too, wouldn’t it?

  2. Lowetide says:

    Yak2:
    For the Gagner selection, Voracek is a comparable as well. It would be nice to have Voracek on the team too, wouldn’t it?

    Sure. I remember well the day Gagner was drafted, and it looked like EDM was going to get one of them but not be able to choose between them. LAK drafted Hickey, and Edmonton chose Gagner over Voracek. Their numbers are similar even today.

  3. Henry says:

    MacGregor is looking pretty good in this comparison. Were the Lowetide BPAs going back to 2007 more similar to MacKenzie?

    I really wonder where the Subban was on the Mackenzie, MacGregor and Lowetide lists. Gainey hit a towering home run there, then traded McDonaugh for Gomez soon after.

  4. Wes Mantooth-11 says:

    2011 – I can still hear me screaming at the TV in vain as the Oiler picked Musil ahead of Jenner, I know Saad was also on the board but given the Oilers had a already chosen a D-man the logical next choice would have been Jenner who also drop.

    Musil was almost in the walk about area, i think BM had him 41 at the final ranking and Jenner was in the 20′s.

    *sigh*

    Still think the Oilers should have taken Nichushkin, the Oiler’s wouldn’t have had to trade for size.

    having said that I do like the Nurse selection, just liked the man child more and how difficult it was for players to stop him in the WJC that year.

  5. Lowetide says:

    Henry:
    MacGregor is looking pretty good in this comparison.Were the Lowetide BPAs going back to 2007 more similar to MacKenzie?

    I really wonder where the Subban was on the Mackenzie, MacGregor and Lowetide lists.Gainey hit a towering home run there, then traded McDonaugh for Gomez soon after.

    In 2007, McKenzie had 1-60 and 10 Honorable mentions in alpha order. Subban was an HM. I didn’t do a top 60 in 2007.

  6. Deadman Waiting says:

    Loved this post. Beautiful head-to-head helps bring the forest back into focus.

    ———

    Steve Tambellini’s disastrous trading record as Edmonton Oilers’ GM put the club in a deep hole

    With the retirement of Ryan Smyth and the departures of Ryan Jones and Ben Eager to the open market this summer, not a single NHL veteran acquired by Tambellini remains on the Oilers roster today. Barely a year out from his five-year run as GM, that is a damning statement.

    I would have guessed this was Staples and not Bruce because when you think about it, surrounding our excessively young core with the easily discarded is far from the worst outcome.

    Also, it would be helpful to separate worse then from worse now. It’s only in Tambi’s last season that I became 100% certain that our suckhood was doing more to damage our existing assets than to gain us new ones.

    I think Edmonton has to clear a higher bar than many other teams in being poised for success before we get anywhere near attracting free agents at a powerhouse discount.

    If this rebuilt team turns the corner surprisingly quickly, I could yet upgrade Tambi from a D to a C-. Considering the hand he was dealt, I’d reluctantly regard C- as a passing grade.

  7. ashley says:

    Agree that 2014 is going to be he most fascinating comparison to watch, and both teams get a front row seat. Maybe it will be Draisatl who blossoms into that elusive skilled big man, or maybe Bennett becomes that crafty speedy centerman with a C on the jersey.

    History suggests that 5 years hence, there is a very good chance that it won’t be obvious as they both come into their own.

    The Flames are cutting the corner on the 8 year rebuild and both of these teams are going to start becoming good again at the same time. The Draisaitl-Bennett and Nurse-Monahan subplots will add to the drama.

    This is going to be fun. Maybe like the 80′s again.

  8. RexLibris says:

    The Merrill/Pitlick comparison is interesting.

    Two or three years ago fans might have been screaming murder over taking Merrill as his career, such as it was, was mired in controversy.

    This is, and this is beginning to sound cliche on this forum, a very reasonable and objective way of examining the Oilers’ draft behaviour to what is generally considered to be a balanced, complete draft list.

    Nice job LT, and thanks to NYCOil for the idea.

  9. nycoil says:

    LT,
    Thank you a thousand times. Really puts things in perspective, and I think in this case it shows the Oilers are doing pretty well with Stu where it counts in the early rounds. The late round picks if they turn out (Hartikainen, Chase, etc.) are found money, and in the early rounds, Stu’s team is clearly doing a lot right.

  10. cabbiesmacker says:

    I don’t find this sort of analysis very relevant to be honest. There are players, i.e. Paajarvi or Lander that would have played a lot fewer games or perhaps none at all if drafted by a different team.

    More telling would be a 5 – 7 year read, team vs team draft records vs the Oilers and I’d venture to say that selecting where they have the Oilers have shown pretty piss poor results compared.

    FTR I’d have run to the podium to take Bennet before Draisaitl.

  11. nycoil says:

    So if we go year by year on what we can assess so far for Stu:

    2008: +1 for Eberle
    2009: 1 vs. 1 = even
    2010: 1 vs, 1 = even so far, likely becomes 2 vs. 2 (Toffoli and Marincin), the question mark is Merrill vs Pitlick to see if they make it.
    2011: 2 vs. 1 = -1. I am going to go ahead and count Saad as a win for BM a bit early. Musil still has a chance but right now it doesn’t look good.
    2012: 1 vs. 1 = even, and too early to call beyond Yak.
    2013/2014 too early I think.

    So Stu is even with the McKenzie in terms of number of successes. The magnitude of the wins and losses is up for debate.

  12. nycoil says:

    cabbiesmacker,

    Have to start somewhere, and in the prior draft thread, LT and co., settled on 150 games played as a line in the sand to define a base level of success.

    I made the suggestion for this comparison based on that benchmark, and I think that debate about whether certain players would have played x number of games on teams other than Edmonton was already had when they settled on that number.

  13. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    cabbiesmacker:
    I don’t find this sort of analysis very relevantto be honest. There are players, i.e. Paajarvi or Lander that would have played a lot fewer games or perhaps none at all if drafted by a different team.

    More telling would be a 5 – 7 year read, team vs team draft records vs the Oilers and I’d venture to say that selecting where they have the Oilers have shown pretty piss poor results compared.

    FTR I’d have run to the podium to take Bennet before Draisaitl.

    I don’t find this sort of comment very relevant to be honest.

  14. Henry says:

    ashley:
    Agree that 2014 is going to be he most fascinating comparison to watch, and both teams get a front row seat.Maybe it will be Draisatl who blossoms into that elusive skilled big man, or maybe Bennett becomes that crafty speedy centerman with a C on the jersey.

    History suggests that 5 years hence, there is a very good chance that it won’t be obvious as they both come into their own.

    The Flames are cutting the corner on the 8 year rebuild and both of these teams are going to start becoming good again at the same time.The Draisaitl-Bennett and Nurse-Monahan subplots will add to the drama.

    This is going to be fun.Maybe like the 80′s again.

    Don’t forget Jankowski’s coming too!

  15. Lowetide says:

    This isn’t housewares!!! I’m on the wrong damn floor!!!!

  16. Marcus Oilerius says:

    I’ll take Stu.

    The story on Nichushkin vs Nurse hasn’t even begun, never mind finished. Nichushkin delivered more immediate results vs Marincin, but Marincin is in the more valuable position, especially considering the Oilers needs.

    Finn vs Musil? Yeah, I’d probably have taken Finn, but Musil still has time, and he’s got the right attitude. If Simpson fixed his skating, so can Musil, and that’s all that’s holding him back.

    I have no clue who Cuma is, and I doubt anyone else does, either. On the other hand, the whole hockey world knows Jordan Eberle.

    Marincin vs Toffoli seems like a wash to me right now, especially given positional considerations, and I think Marincin has a scary high ceiling.

  17. sliderule says:

    I agree even BM ‘s list is made by an idiot.

    Cuba a small d with little offence is better than Ebs ?

    Biggs with 7 goals in USHL is better than Klefbom.Give me a break.

    However if you as a guide if you give BM’s list to most of the guys who read your blog I would bet they do as well as Stu.

  18. JamesL says:

    The Oilers would have made out like bandits if they grabbed Toffoli at 46 and Marincin at 48. Well, one out of two (in the second round) isn’t bad.

  19. Ryan says:

    nycoil:
    So if we go year by year on what we can assess so far for Stu:

    2008: +1 for Eberle
    2009: 1 vs. 1 = even
    2010:1 vs, 1= even so far, likely becomes 2 vs. 2 (Toffoli and Marincin), the question mark is Merrill vs Pitlick to see if they make it.
    2011: 2 vs. 1 = -1. I am going to go ahead and count Saad as a win for BM a bit early. Musil still has a chance but right now it doesn’t look good.
    2012: 1 vs. 1 = even, and too early to call beyond Yak.
    2013/2014 too early I think.

    So Stu is even with the McKenzie in terms of number of successes. The magnitude of the wins and losses is up for debate.

    From where I am sitting, I would say that only 2008 is a clear win for SMB.

    2009 – I’d take Kulikov who I liked at the time of the draft too.
    2010 – Merrill could be better than Marincin. Toffoli is a player–ask Woodguy who loves him. I’d take Mckenzie’s list for sure.
    2011 – Brandon Saad is so good this isn’t even close though Biggs is a bust. In fairness, we do need time to see how Klefbomb develops. Right now, I’d trade Klefbomb straight across for Saad though bowman hangs up the phone laughing when Mact makes this offer.
    2012 – too early but at the time of the draft most of us wanted Finn over Moroz.

  20. Ryan says:

    JamesL:
    The Oilers would have made out like bandits if they grabbed Toffoli at 46 and Marincin at 48. Well, one out of two (in the second round) isn’t bad.

    Well if they had grabbed Toffoli and Marincin plus Klefbomb and Saad….

  21. haters says:

    Good post
    I used to be one of the people who were furious with the Nurse selection. After researching the big Russians year in Dallas I am fully on Mac T’s side. He had a good stretch of games and then went total premadonna, even worse than Yak, in fact he made Yak look good. The last thing Eakins needs is another player that feels he’s hard done by. There has been serious trade rumors and rumors of him bolting back to Russia.

    Nurse physically looks wonderful and I’m almost expecting him to out play an incumbent on this squad and steal a spot in the show. Question is who gets shown the door. I guess it depends on what’s coming back. Jshultz for O’Rielly anyone ?

  22. nycoil says:

    haters,

    What? Source on the Nichushkin rumour? Have I been under a rock and missed something?

  23. haters says:

    nycoil,

    It was in the Dallas newspaper, I researched it about a month ago. It basically went over his whole tumultuous year ending with him and the head coach at least communicating to some degree. The darkest time was when he was at a practice and was on the other side of the ice skating on his own with the entire team ignoring him. Pretty grim stuff. I’ll have a look and see if I can find it .

  24. Hammers says:

    Gags was a win ; Ebs was a win ; Paarvi may get to being even but for now Kulikov ; Hall both the same but Marincin will be a win over Toffoli ; 2012 even ; Nishuskin vs Nurse way to early but 5 years from now it may lean to Nurse ; Leon & Sam , both way to early . . All this proves is BM has good contacts and guess what Mcgregor may well be one of them . Do we really have any idea where BM gets his info .

  25. Marcus Oilerius says:

    haters:
    nycoil,

    http://voiceofrussia.com/us/news/2014_04_02/Dallass-Flickering-Star-is-Valeri-Nichushkin-on-Thin-Ice-4949/

    Well, we already had one Russian creating drama here, and I do like Yakupov.

    Two would be too much, for this struggling franchise.

  26. wheatnoil says:

    This is a fantastic addition to the post-draft coverage and one that I hope you continue every year, LT. Props to NYCOIL for the suggestion!

    MacGregor clearly hit a grand slam in 2008 and any misses that have come after aren’t nearly as much of a miss as Eberle was a hit.

    In 2009, Paajarvi clearly wasn’t a reach pick and a reasonable selection, but Kulikov would have been pretty nice right around now. I think Paajarvi will have a career and will play an important 2-way role for a good team, but MacT did well trading in Paajarvi’s value when he did. We’ll see over the next couple years about the Lander vs Shore situation. On the Lander note, here’s an interesting link… http://www.coppernblue.com/2014/7/18/5916699/5-reasons-anton-lander-should-be-the-second-line-centre . I disagree with the post in that I don’t believe there’s any indication that Lander has the offence to be a second line centre, but it does lay a compelling argument for a bounce-back year from Lander at the NHL level.

    In 2010, Hall is Hall… he’s real and he’s spectacular. As for Merrill vs. Pitlick… both were picked after their consensus rank and injuries have really impacted Pitlick. That chapter has yet to be written because Pitlick still has a chance. Toffoli is a player, but D take longer and it’s easy to forget just how good Marincin was last year. If last season wasn’t a fluke, then I’m willing to call Toffoli-Marincin a wash… it’s tough to compare different positions but both have the chance to be legitimate impact players. Hamilton and Pickard are equally not looking good.

    2011 and on is far too early to call. Saad looks great but D take longer and if we did this exercise last year, Marincin wouldn’t be looking anywhere near where he looks now.

  27. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I’m gonna say it.

    The Voice of Russia doesn’t seem like a top drawer source if we are going to start spreading “character” aspersions all over on a 19 year old.

  28. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    I did find the same author’s hot take on Burns’ “hit ratio” very illuminating… very illuminating.

    And here’s a number (or two) that speaks volumes: NHL scorekeepers have credited San Jose Sharks RW Brent Burns with delivering 75 hits so far this season, while receiving only 19 himself. Burns’s 4:1 hitting ratio far outstrips even power forwards like LA’s Dwight King (1.2:1), BOS’s Milan Lucic (2.2:1), and STL’s Ryan Reaves (3.3:1). Burns’s hitting is not setting any records–BUF’s Steve Ott also has a 4:1 hitting ratio, for example. But the physical force of this 6’5” forward presents huge problems to NHL defenses, and serves to imbalance games in SJ’s favor.

  29. Marcus Oilerius says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    I’m gonna say it.

    The Voice of Russia doesn’t seem like a top drawer source if we are going to start spreading “character” aspersions all over on a 19 year old.

    “Voice of Russia” types don’t seem the kinds of people to slander Russian players.

    I could be wrong. Perhaps they’re sources hoping to drive Russians to the KHL, but…

  30. Lowetide says:

    When you have one story, and no one else is picking up on it, there’s usually something wrong there. Just saying.

  31. haters says:

    Lowetide,

    There was a link directly under the article from a different source citing the same issues with the player. So more than one source. If you read the article it seems pretty legit, quoting some reports that follow the stars .

  32. Numenius says:

    Marcus Oilerius: Well, we already had one Russian creating drama here, and I do like Yakupov.

    Two would be too much, for this struggling franchise.

    Agreed. This is exactly why I was fine with the Nurse selection over Nichushkin. It’s not that Nichushkin might not turn out well for Dallas, it’s that the combination of him here with Yak (and Eakins) may have been too volatile. Since I love YakCity and the Oilers I wouldn’t have wanted to see that happen.

    Good work finding that article, Hater.

  33. supernova says:

    nycoil,

    nycoil,

    Sorry thought I would repost this here to from our last thread.

    ——————–

    Fair enough.

    I thank you for making the suggestion. I do find it interesting.

    I still do find it skewed.

    I agree that every team has it available to them prior to the draft, but their input could be included in the list or it could be off.

    Why I like the idea of also comparing it to am independent is the fact that it doesn’t leave room for the comparison of the fact that teams and scouts in particular can fall in love with a player and take him way ahead of the pack or totally disregard a player.

    Example of this could be Craig Button ranking Virtanen at 40 ish and the BM list below 10.

    I believe this type of thing happens regularly and it maybe should. If management want to make a scout happy they draft “his” player. Redline or equivalent account for some of this to a degree, where as BM take this away.

    This is very tangible to me in “re-drafts ” or comparisons.

    Anyhow thanks for the suggestion

  34. Lowetide says:

    haters:
    Lowetide,

    There was a link directly under the article from a different source citing the same issues with the player. So more than one source. If you read the article it seems pretty legit, quoting some reports that follow the stars .

    Same author, no?

  35. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    haters:
    Lowetide,

    There was a link directly under the article from a different source citing the same issues with the player. So more than one source. If you read the article it seems pretty legit, quoting some reports that follow the stars .

    nope.

    the only source at the bottom appears to be his own other articles on VN.

    The one article about VN linked to in the article has this:

    One tweak at today’s practice was that Nichushkin was skating with the penalty killers and not the power play players, so he really could be reeled in tonight.

    “I don’t think his skating has been good, Ruff said. “Some of his decisions with the puck, I fully anticipate hills and valleys, we’ve gone through it the whole year, but we’re at the point where the guys that are going the best, we’re going to ride the guys that are getting the most done.”

    Asked if he think Nichushkin understands the decisions that are being made, Ruff said for the most part.

    “Sometimes he understands,” Ruff said. “It’s hard, because he wants to do well and I think sometimes he gets hanging on too long (to the puck) and there’s some plays to be made, which eliminates some plays on the power play. And I think that area will come. We just don’t have enough time to practice, and him understanding the amount of pressure teams are going to come at us with and where that pressure’s going to come from and where his outs are. I think some of it’s just a natural read on his part. The five-on-five stuff, I can’t fault his effort for a second. His effort has been fabulous. I think just sometimes it‘s maybe finding that open guy a little bit quicker.”

    which has nothing to do with character problems… in fact it suggests the opposite. to quote again:

    “The five-on-five stuff, I can’t fault his effort for a second. His effort has been fabulous. I think just sometimes it‘s maybe finding that open guy a little bit quicker”

    So… it looks an awful lot like a 19 year old struggling on the ice… normal.

    And… the press (or, one guy anyway) deciding that means… bad character.

    ———-
    I don’t doubt the kid is frustrated on occasion. I don’t doubt he finds the new language, culture, etc. frustrating.

    He probably doesn’t like Ruff’s coaching (I didn’t like how he used Hall afterall) and he may not understand what’s expected of him completely… because he’s 19 and in a radically new context.

    But… seriously… leave the character stuff out. I don’t want to read it. I don’t buy it. I think these kids shouldn’t be talked about like this.

    Hockey isn’t a morality play. And 19 year olds aren’t the step ladder to our feelings of moral righteousness.

  36. Lowetide says:

    There seems to be a thread of journalism that wants to demonize these kids. As a parent, I find it noxious. As a fan, I’m offended.

  37. haters says:

    http://www.defendingbigd.com/2014/4/2/5574444/valeri-nichushkin-trade-media-lindy-ruff-dallas-stars
    Looks like ur right again LT, I can’t seem to win … It just seemed like a very legit article . He is a reporter that has access to these players but he does seem to reach a bit with a lot of the article. Just a kid adapting to a new system .

  38. Rondo says:

    Why did 5 teams pass on Nichushkin ?

  39. Lowetide says:

    haters:
    http://www.defendingbigd.com/2014/4/2/5574444/valeri-nichushkin-trade-media-lindy-ruff-dallas-stars
    Looks like ur right again LT, I can’t seem to win … It just seemed like a very legit article . He is a reporter that has access to these players but he does seem to reach a bit with a lot of the article. Just a kid adapting to a new system .

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, and thank you for bringing it to our attention. I just get really tired of writers who take 19 year olds from half a world away and rip them for having some adjustment issues.

  40. haters says:

    Lowetide,

    Totally agree, my bad for posting trash, I shoulda researched the author/article before posting .

  41. Lowetide says:

    haters:
    Lowetide,

    Totally agree, my bad for posting trash, I shoulda researched the author/article before posting .

    If I thought it was trash, I would have deleted it.

  42. haters says:

    Lowetide,

    I still think MacT made the right call. He probably foreseen a situation like the one in Nashvillie with Kostitsyn and Radulov . Not saying that’s what would happen but why take the chance. Take the Dman with limitless potential and character.

    Anyone think jshultz is enough to pry Ryan O’Rielly from the av’s?

  43. Lowetide says:

    haters:
    Lowetide,

    I still think MacT made the right call. He probably foreseen a situation like the one in Nashvillie with Kostitsyn and Radulov . Not saying that’s what would happen but why take the chance. Take the Dman with limitless potential and character.

    Anyone think jshultz is enough to pry Ryan O’Rielly from the av’s?

    I like Nurse a lot, so it was never an issue for me (also liked the Finnish D). I don’t think Justin Schultz is enough, but man I’d like to see the Oilers get ROR for a package including Schultz.

  44. theres oil in virginia says:

    I sounds like Nichushkin’s biggest issue is simply the language:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1922086-valeri-nichushkin-at-18-hes-overcoming-language-culture-barriers-as-rookie

    Gonchar is apparently helping him with the language. I bet Seguin is teaching him the names of all the mixed drinks. Zing!

    Even if he did say he would ask for a trade (in Russian and unconfirmed), I don’t think that amounts to character issues. He’s a teenager.

  45. haters says:

    Lowetide,

    Yup monster corsi rel if I recall . Which IMO is the most important fancy stat. Me thinks they want next years 1st thrown in and that is just a whole lota nope .

  46. Numenius says:

    Lowetide: I’m not saying you’re wrong, and thank you for bringing it to our attention. I just get really tired of writers who take 19 year olds from half a world away and rip them for having some adjustment issues.

    The article does seem to lack outside confirmation and pushes the assessment too far, but I wouldn’t say the author is “ripping” Nichushkin or that he’s “demonizing” him. It seems more moderate than that.

    I wouldn’t say that you posted trash, Haters. It’s just not clearly reliable. And even if it is reliable, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt and charitably with respect to Nichushkin. He’s an awesome kid who’s had his adjustments like everyone else, and may have had a few extra issues that need patience.

  47. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Deadman Waiting:
    Steve Tambellini’s disastrous trading record as Edmonton Oilers’ GM put the club in a deep hole

    I would have guessed this was Staples and not Bruce because when you think about it, surrounding our excessively young core with the easily discarded is far from the worst outcome.

    If this rebuilt team turns the corner surprisingly quickly, I could yet upgrade Tambi from a D to a C-.Considering the hand he was dealt, I’d reluctantly regard C- as a passing grade.

    Easily discarded is one thing. I have in the past commented on Tambellini’s use of “placeholders” & complimented him for keeping the payroll structure in good order with short-term deals & no NMCs. But c’mon man, to not bring in a single player with NHL experience who was useful enough to still be here 1.3 years after his departure is piss-poor performance no matter how you slice it.

  48. rickithebear says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Easily discarded is one thing. I have in the past commented on Tambellini’s use of “placeholders” & complimented him for keeping the payroll structure in good order with short-term deals & no NMCs. But c’mon man, to not bring in a single player with NHL experience who was useful enough to still be here 1.3 years after his departure is piss-poor performance no matter how you slice it.

    To bring in players that guarantee high picks.
    but convert the scouting and farm dstructure to create a better draft history.
    Then to get arena deal!
    Get dumped!
    Have new GM change 17 of 23 positions.

    Tambo Good footsoldier?

  49. Ryan says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Easily discarded is one thing. I have in the past commented on Tambellini’s use of “placeholders” & complimented him for keeping the payroll structure in good order with short-term deals & no NMCs. But c’mon man, to not bring in a single player with NHL experience who was useful enough to still be here 1.3 years after his departure is piss-poor performance no matter how you slice it.

    Yes, Tambo did keep the payroll structure in good order which is huge.

    His trades though were laughably poor.

    Being the GM of a terrible hockey exam is not an easy job.

    We’re all lauding Mact for bringing in ‘actual NHL players’ with some tread left on the tires.

    Yet, he’s done this at the cost of a very lopsided and peculiar salary cap structure.

    Percell and Pouliot is $8.5 million in 3rd line wingers…

    Jultz and Ference is going to likely be $7.25 + m bottom pairing.

    Hendricks and Gordon is 2/3 rds of a fourth line for over $5.6 m.

    Thank Gord for the Hall contract Tambo wrote.

  50. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide:
    This isn’t housewares!!! I’m on the wrong damn floor!!!!

    Housewares? See Ash over in aisle 13. He’s got a deal this week on cobalt blue steel boomsticks with a walnut stock and hair trigger. Retails for about $109.95.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx3Bz6cIPiw

  51. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    I’m gonna say it.

    The Voice of Russia doesn’t seem like a top drawer source if we are going to start spreading “character” aspersions all over on a 19 year old.

    Why not. The Canadian media, backed by fans from rival markets, does it all the time.

    Johnny Canuck = good. Ivan Drago = bad.

  52. RexLibris says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Easily discarded is one thing. I have in the past commented on Tambellini’s use of “placeholders” & complimented him for keeping the payroll structure in good order with short-term deals & no NMCs. But c’mon man, to not bring in a single player with NHL experience who was useful enough to still be here 1.3 years after his departure is piss-poor performance no matter how you slice it.

    Hah. Completely agree and very good timing.

    I just found myself composing a long post over at FN in a discussion about the Flames-Oilers rebuild.

    Assertion by commenter was that the Flames have put into place a culture of accountability and effort that doesn’t exist in Edmonton because Renney and subsequent coaches never insisted on it before the GM began handing out big contracts, now the young core have no incentive to play the game to the extent that they need to in order to win.

    I decided not to post a response because I found myself getting too in-depth over Tambellini’s time as GM and the subsequent aftermath and felt my blood pressure noticeably rising.

    The Oilers in 2010 were, for all intents and purposes, nearly an expansion team starting from the ground up.

    They had virtually no development system delivering even modest NHL talent outside of Gilbert and Petry (at an interval of around three years), their AHL affiliation was a basketcase, and the roster was atrocious.

    And don’t even get me started on hanging one’s hat on concepts like “culture of winning” and “accountability” being significant competitive advantages for the Flames.

    Okay, take a deep breath. Calm down…

    So, uh, how about those Esks, huh?

  53. Ryan says:

    RexLibris,

    How about a culture of having Giordano giving the Flames an advantage?

  54. RexLibris says:

    From http://oilersnation.com/2014/7/19/leon-and-sam

    Besides, Burke will trade Bennett for the next Tyler Biggs before anything gets too far out of hand.

    Oh, LT. I do so hope this is true.

    Watching Burke drive the Flames around in circles the way he did the Leafs would be so very entertaining.

  55. RexLibris says:

    Ryan:
    RexLibris,

    How about a culture of having Giordano giving the Flames an advantage?

    I’ve said before, the Flames have begun a rebuild with a bona fide top pairing defense in Brodie and Giordano (I’m a bigger fan of Brodie than Giordano) and a terrific C in Backlund.

    The Oilers don’t have those assets, at least not yet.

    But whereas I was impressed with how the Flames played last season, I don’t believe that it is something that can be quantitatively relied upon or will necessarily carry over year to year.

  56. Bank Shot says:

    RexLibris: I’ve said before, the Flames have begun a rebuild with a bona fide top pairing defense in Brodie and Giordano (I’m a bigger fan of Brodie than Giordano) and a terrific C in Backlund.

    The Oilers don’t have those assets, at least not yet.

    But whereas I was impressed with how the Flames played last season, I don’t believe that it is something that can be quantitatively relied upon or will necessarily carry over year to year.

    Giordano has two seasons left on his contract and hasn’t seen the playoffs since his rookie season. The odds of him sticking around through the rebuild? I don’t think its very likely.

    On top of that the Flames had a pretty lucky season last year. They won a bunch of one goal games and did well in shootouts. Two of thei main offseason additions were Bollig and Engellend.

    It’s going to get worse for them before it gets better. We will see what happens to all the talk of work ethic and accountability then.

  57. Chicken Laser says:

    I think the Eberle selection probably puts the goal light on for Stu, doesn’t it? He picked up an Elite player there that could play on the top line of about any team. And he did it in the foothills of the draft order.

    As for Nurse v. Nichushkin, I was leaning toward Valerie at the time of the draft, but now I see it as a saw off even though Nurse hasn’t reached the top league yet. That’s normal for defensemen, and he seems to be developing very well. I like his on-ice demeanor a lot and I love his combination of speed, skating ability, and physical explosiveness. That peculiar but graceful way he has of gliding about is going to be a pleasure to watch, and I value players who are unique and fun to observe thrown in with other qualities like productivity and responsibility. Should be great.

  58. Hockeyman 99 says:

    If your Ron Hextall and MacT offers Hendricks for Coutourier and Pronger do you do it. I think he would. We have enough young players that we can send down without waivers that Prongers cap hit shouldn’t be to hard to get around. Thoughts?

  59. "Steve Smith" says:

    haters: premadonna

    Outstanding.

  60. Woodguy says:

    haters:
    Lowetide,

    Yup monster corsi rel if I recall . Which IMO is the most important fancy stat. Me thinks they want next years 1st thrown in and that is just a wholelota nope .

    Seeing as Brad Stuart is their big D acquisition, and he posted the worst RelCor on SJS I doubt its a stat that Joe and Pat are aware exists.

  61. Woodguy says:

    “Steve Smith”: Outstanding.

    I agree.

    The premadonna music scene was outstanding.

    Much better than the postmadonna.

    Imo.

  62. nycoil says:

    Hockeyman 99:
    If your Ron Hextall and MacT offers Hendricks for Coutourier and Pronger do you do it. I think he would. Wehave enough young players that we can send down without waivers thatProngers cap hit shouldn’tbe to hard to get around. Thoughts?

    I am not sure if you are serious here, but in case you are, Pronger’s cap hit is not a problem for Philly. They put him on Long-term IR and his cap hit goes away. So, yeah, still no Couturier.

  63. nycoil says:

    Woodguy: Seeing as Brad Stuart is their big D acquisition, and he posted the worst RelCor on SJS I doubt its a stat that Joe and Pat are aware exists.

    Yes, that’s my hope with what happens with the Colorado rebuild: those two run it old school style and run it into the ground. But I fear they may have too many horses already to have that happen.

    Just bugs me a bit that Pat goes all Jack Adams riding on Varlamov’s .927 coattails.

    Even if O’Reilly signs I see the Avs fading back a bit this year. Unfortunately I see Minnesota that much stronger

  64. theres oil in virginia says:

    Woodguy: I agree.

    The premadonna music scene was outstanding.

    Much better than the postmadonna.

    Imo.

    Agreed, and the synmadonna was about the worst period in modern music. IMO.

  65. nycoil says:

    Woodguy: I agree.

    The premadonna music scene was outstanding.

    Much better than the postmadonna.

    Imo.

    On the whole, there is no debate, although that bit of late 70s-early 80s was a bit rough. Nonetheless:

    Beatles > Backstreet Boys (Boy band)
    Young Michael Jackson > Old Michael Jackson (King of pop)
    Abba > Ace of Base (annoyingly cutesie Swedish group)
    Diana Ross vs Beyonce Knowles (Queen of Pop)…actually dunno maybe Madonna wins her own award here? This one is tough so how about
    Billie/Ella/Sara/etc. > Diana Krall (Queens of Jazz)
    Mozart > Tupac (Talented wunderkind raised in music)
    Mother Goose > Raffi (songs and poems for kids)

    Clearly premadonna is superior.

  66. Pouzar says:

    I really question if some people have actually seen Martin Marincin play hockey.
    The only thing they have on their side is sample size. Cling to it while you can cause the kid is good.

  67. Lowetide says:

    nycoil: I am not sure if you are serious here, but in case you are, Pronger’s cap hit is not a problem for Philly. They put him on Long-term IR and his cap hit goes away. So, yeah, still no Couturier.

    Philly has to comply on opening day, and then wait a heartbeat to send Pronger to LTIR. Ordinarily, you can just send a bunch of entry-level deals to the minors but iirc they don’t have enough of them to make it go this summer. We’ll see, I’m sure their cap people have some ideas.

  68. RexLibris says:

    Bank Shot: Giordano has two seasons left on his contract and hasn’t seen the playoffs since his rookie season. The odds of him sticking around through the rebuild? I don’t think its very likely.

    On top of that the Flames had a pretty lucky season last year. They won a bunch of one goal games and did well in shootouts. Two of thei main offseason additions were Bollig and Engellend.

    It’s going to get worse for them before it gets better. We will see what happens to all the talk of work ethic and accountability then.

    You’ll get no argument from me.

    I think Giordano had a career year last year and I expect him to regress slightly this coming season. He’s still a damned good defenseman, but the Flames have virtually nothing by way of D prospects (Kanzig, Wotherspoon and Sieloff are their best blueliners).

    And the items you mention (one goal games, etc) I think are being confused with the narratives that the Flames just work harder than the Oilers. It is an empty argument that seeks to glorify results by assigning causes after the fact while simultaneously relying entirely on narrative and perception of the comparison (Oilers) without seeking to explore underlying causes (coaching, abysmal goaltending, injury, etc).

    For what it is worth, Kent Wilson had predicted that this season was going to be the real catastrophe a while ago based on the departure of Cammalleri and Stempniak and the lack of possible call ups from the farm to pick up the slack.

    Oh, and in case any Oiler fans are still smarting about Glencross going to the Flames, he recently said that he wants to re-sign in Calgary but expects full value on the coming contract at the same time that his age and underlying metrics are starting to erode.

  69. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    80s pop music is fantastic. I will hear no argument on this.

    Also… Madonna (or her handlers) wrote exceptional pop tunes. She just has a shit voice. Her true talent was marketing.

  70. RexLibris says:

    Lowetide: Philly has to comply on opening day, and then wait a heartbeat to send Pronger to LTIR. Ordinarily, you can just send a bunch of entry-level deals to the minors but iirc they don’t have enough of them to make it go this summer. We’ll see, I’m sure their cap people have some ideas.

    There is something so deeply satisfying for me in watching the Philadelphia situation go on, year in year out.

  71. RexLibris says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    80s pop music is fantastic. I will hear no argument on this.

    Also… Madonna (or her handlers) wrote exceptional pop tunes. She just has a shit voice. Her true talent was marketing.

    Yeah, surprised LT didn’t do his RE series to the entire catalogue of Men Without Hats or Duran Duran this year.

  72. nycoil says:

    Lowetide,

    Oh? Didn’t realize this year would be different. They get rid of Lecavalier and that’s enough, isn’t it?

  73. jfry says:

    RexLibris: I’ve said before, the Flames have begun a rebuild with a bona fide top pairing defense in Brodie and Giordano (I’m a bigger fan of Brodie than Giordano) and a terrific C in Backlund.

    The Oilers don’t have those assets, at least not yet.

    But whereas I was impressed with how the Flames played last season, I don’t believe that it is something that can be quantitatively relied upon or will necessarily carry over year to year.

    Rex. You are being a little over the top. Backlund has good possession numbers but doesn’t score points. On a real team he would be a perfect third line ozs center. Brodie ispetry with a few more points. And go is already on the wrong side of thirty. Those aren’t elements of a quick rebuild. Sorry to say. The prospect pool was decimated by Sutter and there are no dmen of note in the system. Calgary is not turning the corner quickly, sorry to say. I say this as a guy who goes to 30 of their games a year.

  74. haters says:

    Woodguy,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1JVYmxFmhM
    Hey sorry for making a spelling mistake, nice to see there’s people who won’t jump down your throat for it.
    This song is for you lady’s :)

  75. nycoil says:

    Philly doesn’t need to make any trades to be cap compliant. Just demote the usual two spare parts players, put Pronger on LTIR, then recall them.

    http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/7/3/5865615/flyers-salary-cap-pronger-ltir

  76. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    RexLibris: Yeah, surprised LT didn’t do his RE series to the entire catalogue of Men Without Hats or Duran Duran this year.

    Those are actually ok bands.

    And you are fooling yourself if you think the golden age of rock (be it the 60s or the 70s) didn’t have a shit ton of crap too.

  77. theres oil in virginia says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Those are actually ok bands.

    And you are fooling yourself if you think the golden age of rock (be it the 60s or the 70s) didn’t have a shit ton of crap too.

    I don’t know about your first statement, but “hell yes they did” to your second statement. And the 50′s, 40′s, etc. Something I was recently surprised by is how many shitty movies were made in the 50s and 60s. I always thought that was sort of the golden age of Hollywood prior to them just following the same tired scripts over and over. Not so. I recently started getting an old-movies channel over the air and started watching some of them. Some are great, most are shit.

  78. Hockeyman 99 says:

    nycoil,

    Cap geek says they are over by more than 3 million not 1.2. Someone is in error. Philly has to send higher paid players down as I understand it unless cap geek is wrong. They have couturier as their 3/4 Center and his best season is 39 points so far. What is $15 million actual dollars and 5 mil cap space X 3 years worth? Add a pick? How much does philly value him?

  79. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    theres oil in virginia: I don’t know about your first statement, but “hell yes they did” to your second statement.And the 50′s, 40′s, etc.Something I was recently surprised by is how many shitty movies were made in the 50s and 60s.I always thought that was sort of the golden age of Hollywood prior to them just following the same tired scripts over and over.Not so.I recently started getting an old-movies channel over the air and started watching some of them.Some are great, most are shit.

    It’s always that way. History culls the herd and keeps the good stuff. We forget all the endless shit the people had to put up with on a daily basis and assume everything was just the Rolling Stones.

  80. nycoil says:

    Hockeyman 99,

    Philly will not be trading Couturier away to get rid of Pronger, who can be put on LTIR each year and his cap hit becomes zero. They value him probably second on the team after Giroux and points have nothing to do with the reason why.

  81. cabbiesmacker says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: I don’t find this sort of comment very relevant to be honest.

    Well to be bluntly honest I don’t find much of what You/Anyone else whose total knowledge of the game was acquired via looking at stats pages to be worth the time spent browsing it. Very one dimensional at best.

  82. Oilanderp says:

    Thanks for this article. It’s fun for me to look back at who I wanted at the time. I only started paying attention to the draft in 2009.

    2009: Ryan Ellis
    2010: Tyler Seguin (wanted a trade down), Christian Thomas, Petr Straka, Brock Beukeboom
    2011: Adam Larsson for the longest time, then at the last second hedged and jumped on the Larsson/Nuge/Couturier triple threat-to-be-ok-with-it bet, Joe Morrow, Ty Rattie (can’t believe they left him on the board)
    2012: Alex Galchenyuk, Martin Frk
    2013: Valeri Nichushkin, no real idea who to go with after that so like 2010 I cheered for known names like Bertuzzi

    The Many (hockey) World Hypothesis can be entertaining indeed.

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