I CAN SEE FOR MILES AND MILES AND MILES

The Oilers amateur scouting staff has been mostly stable in the last couple of years. I do this every year, I’m not certain it’s accurate in terms of area, and do believe area scouts would see more than just their region by the time the draft arrives. As an example, Edmonton would have had scouting reports on Nail, Darnell and Leon from most of the group below. Lagesson? Probably not. Again, that’s a bit of a guess based on Oilers’ scouting activity over many years—we get far less info on this group than in olden days when Guy Flaming uncovered massive amounts of information at Hockey’s Future.

OILERS SCOUTS 2013-14

  • Stu MacGregor: Head Amateur Scout, cross checks the world
  • Bob Green: Director of Amateur Free Agent scouting, searching the world for Khachev’s and Oesterle’s
  • Bill Dandy: QMJHL
  • Brad Davis: OHL, tier 2 leagues in Q and O
  • Kent Hawley: OHL, QMJHL, tier 2 leagues in Q and O
  • Bob Brown: WHL, tier 2 leagues
  • Jim Crosson: WHL, tier 2 leagues
  • Scott Harlow: NCAA and American junior leagues (east coast)
  • Frank Musil: Europe
  • Pelle Eklund: Europe
  • Robert Nordmark: Europe
  • Joseph Cucci: Year two, don’t know his area but it might be New England
  • Dave Heitz: Year two, goalie scout
  • Matti Virmanen: Year two, Europe, seems to have some torque
  • Sylvain Rodrigue: Year one, works closely with Chabot in goaltender development and scouting

2014 DRAFT AND THE AREA SCOUTS

  • Leon Draisaitl—Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Bob Brown, Jim Crosson
  • William Lagesson—Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Frank Musil, Pelle Eklund, Robert Nordmark, Matti Virmanen
  • Zack Nagelvoort—Stu Macgregor, Bob Green, Dave Heitz, Scott Harlow, Fred Chabot, Sylvain Rodrigue
  • Liam Coughlin—Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Bob Brown
  • Tyler Vesel—Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Brad Davisk, Kent Hawley and possibly Joseph Cucci
  • Keven Bouchard—Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Bill Dandy, Kent Hawley, Fred Chabot, Sylvain Rodrigue

OILERS AND THEIR DRAFT TENDENCIES SINCE 2008

  1. WHL: 15 players (27.2%) including Eberle, Nugent-Hopkins and Draisaitl
  2. USA: 8 players (14.5) including Pitlick, Simpson and Nagelvoort
  3. OHL: 7 players (12.7%) including Hall, Yakupov and Nurse
  4. Sweden: 6 players (10.9%) including Paajarvi, Lander, Klefbom and Lagesson
  5. QMJHL: 5 players (9.1%) including Marco Roy and Keven Bouchard
  6. BCJHL: 5 players (9.1%) including Bigos, Khaira and Coughlin
  7. Finland: 4 players (7.2%) including Hartikainen and Rajala
  8. Russia: 2 players (3.6%) Bogdan Yakimov and Anton Slepyshev
  9. Slovakia: 2 players (3.6%) Martin Marincin and Martin Gernat
  10. Belarus: 1 player (1.8%) Kristians Pelss
  • The WHL is a monster for the Oilers, I’d have to run the numbers but they have to be one of the strongest teams in terms of WHL drafting. I looked at it last season, and the average NHL team plucked 16.5% of their picks from the WHL 2008-13. The Oilers? 28.6% at that time. The Oilers have selected a WHL player during each of Stu MacGregor’s seasons as chief scout, and the last time Edmonton didn’t select a WHL player was 2006—about a decade ago. The club has selected WHL players very high—Nuge and Leon—but have also found value elsewhere (Eberle, Chase) and overall have a nice group from the 15 selections.
  • The OHL is regarded as the best junior league in the world. Edmonton’s best player and two of their three No. 1 overall picks come from the Ontario league. Darnell Nurse was a top 10 selection, and Tobias Rieder looks like a brilliant pick. The Oilers could probably draft more kids from this league based on results over a long period of time. This season, the club drafted no OHL kids, but did select a BCJHL and USHL player. If I’m doing a forensic on this team’s drafting tendencies, I would probably include that in the final report as ‘more than a curio.’ I suspect someone in the room should have been a lawyer. Not a criticism, but maybe that scout should be moved to Ontario.
  • Sweden is the new Finland for Edmonton. The club has devoted a lot of their draft currency to the Tre Kronor, even this season using their second pick on Lagesson. The club’s first round picks (Paajarvi, Klefbom) are the most interesting, but this Lagesson fellow may fill a need, too. The Oilers are looking for that physical type who can win battles and also move the puck—Klefbom fits that description—and we shouldn’t underestimate Lagesson’s potential. Corey Pronman had him No. 60 overall.
  • The USA kids haven’t really had an impact, but Pitlick is the only really high pick and he could be coming online this season. Simpson is a Canadian, but as is the case with Nail in the OHL, we count him as an American (sorry Mom and Dad). I like Simpson’s progress very much, we could see him in the NHL someday if he continues along the current curve.
  • The QMJHL isn’t really a big player in this build, just as it wasn’t 1979-83. Oilers plucked Kevin Lowe with their first ever NHL pick though, he played for the Remparts. Hopefully they grab another one that good soon. Marco Roy looked very good on draft day, and despite injuries he posted decent numbers in a trying season. Traded to the Remparts this summer, let’s see how he looks in training camp. The Oilers have not signed him yet.
  • The BCJHL has provided Riley Nash and Jujhar Khaira since 2007, plus a lot of depth picks that don’t really develop. The drafting of 19 and 20 year old kids from this league is a recent trend, and as mentioned above I think the OHL would be a better place to buy a lottery ticket.
  • Finland is no longer an area of Oiler strength. Sad Jouhikko.
  • Russia is an exciting new opportunity, and Yakupov begat Yakimov and Slepyshev. Here’s hoping they mine this area with value picks for years to come.
  • Slovakia has been very very good to Edmonton. Two nice players.
  • We think of you, Kristians Pelss. A lot. Miss you. RIP.

PROJECTED 2015 DRAFT PICKS (BASED ON ESTABLISHED PAST)

This is assuming Edmonton finishes 20th overall in 2014-15.

  • No. 11 overall: CHL
  • No. 41 overall: USHL or NCAA
  • No. 75 overall: Sweden (this is the Hemsky pick from Ottawa)
  • No. 102 overall: CHL
  • No. 132 overall: BCJHL
  • No. 162 overall: CHL
  • No. 192 overall: Russia

 LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

robbing10 this morning, TSN 1260. Dennis King starts things off, the Travis Yost pops in. Derek from Fear the Finn will discuss Thornton, Raffi and more on the coast and then Alan Hull from Copper and Blue swings by after his nine damn weeks of holidays.

I don’t promote these guys much, but if you don’t listen to the show this would be a great day to start. King will one day host his own show from his buddy’s bar in NL, it’ll go across the country and be considered the best of its type. Yost will one day own his own country, not a big one, maybe like Sweden or Argentina. Derek from Fear the Finn represents a brilliant group of people on the coast who would rather play with their Texas Instruments than surf and chase girls. Something wrong with him, but I’m happy he’s going to join us. Hull is making babies like rabbits on the right coast, we’ll try to slow him down for 15 minutes this morning.

See you on the radio!

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46 Responses to "I CAN SEE FOR MILES AND MILES AND MILES"

  1. Woodguy says:

    Sad Jouhikko.

    Well done.

  2. su_dhillon says:

    Really interesting read, LT and I think the part about probably needing to draft from the best league (the OHL) brings up an interesting question.

    When you are in the later parts of your draft are you better off taking guys who have played in the best leagues against the best players and maybe have posted lesser results or have some physical limitations ie size, speed vs the guy tearing up a lesser league. Obviously there are no absolutes but I would imagine you probably have more guys from the better leagues play in the NHL while the lesser leagues may have more boom or bust guys. That could be completely off but that would be my guess.

  3. Braden88 says:

    i am enjoying the oilers drafting Euro’s and Russians in the lower rounds. but we really need to imrpove our 1st and 2nd round picking moving forward. not that our 1st rounders have been bad, but if we are going to be picking lower. we need to get into the OHL and get into the realy development league!. leave the late round picks for those mens league prospects. take the talent early!

  4. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    “I do this every year, I’m not certain it’s accurate in terms of area, and do believe area scouts would see more than just their region by the time the draft arrives.”

    In that Flyers draft video from 2013 (I just recently rewatched it)

    http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=263517

    The WHL scout at c. 3:30 mark explains the number of viewings he does for his region and how many scouts for other regions will come in for.

    He sees his players 8-13 times.
    An out of region scout comes in for 3-5 viewings throughout the season.

    I gather this is reflective of most scouts for most NHL teams.

  5. supernova says:

    Thanks LT,

    I like this stuff.

    Seems that Bob Brown has Stu’s ear a little to much IMO.

    I agree the OHL seems logical for deeper picks but Platzer is an interesting prospect.

    Scouting is a mystery at the best of times but this type of write up takes some of the intrigue away.

    I wonder if WHL picks would actually improve if it went down to 20 teams in the league. Increased competition could lead to more success amongst the players.

  6. Pinus says:

    Why is Pelss from Belarus and not the WHL where he played for and I assume was scouted while playing for the oil kings? And why Belarus and not Latvia?

  7. Lowetide says:

    Pinus:
    Why is Pelss from Belarus and not the WHL where he played for and I assume was scouted while playing for the oil kings? And why Belarus and not Latvia?

    Hockeydb supplies the league and team each player was drafted from.

  8. supernova says:

    Romulus Apotheosis:
    “I do this every year, I’m not certain it’s accurate in terms of area, and do believe area scouts would see more than just their region by the time the draft arrives.”

    In that Flyers draft video from 2013 (I just recently rewatched it)

    http://video.flyers.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=263517

    The WHL scout at c. 3:30 mark explains the number of viewings he does for his region and how many scouts for other regions will come in for.

    He sees his players 8-13 times.
    An out of region scout comes in for 3-5 viewings throughout the season.

    I gather this is reflective of most scouts for most NHL teams.

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    I would think this is the standard as well.

    Perhaps 30 to 40 viewings as a group for round 1 picks maybe a little less as each round goes or area.
    ————-
    I am no scout but I watched Hunter Shunkaruk a lot of times leading up to his draft. When I seen rumblings of him going top 10 I thought scouts of media weren’t seeing him enough.

    He has wow skills for sure but IMO he wasn’t dominant enough and consistent enough each game. He seemed to have the skills that he could get a goal or point a game but then coast, and in my opinion those point getting skills didn’t project to be a first line player in the NHL.

    I thought for sure he could be a NHL player but more complimentary than primary scorer.

    ———

    This is what really intrigues me about scouting. My shadow could have had a completely different take on a highly viewed player, let alone guys who get less than half the views.

  9. Ducey says:

    The Oil Kings rookie camp starts today, with main camp starting this weekend.

    http://www.oilkings.ca/article/oil-kings-training-camp-schedule

    The Oilers play their first preseason game in exactly one month.

  10. Hammers says:

    My question is regarding analytics and if Dellow will be told to spend more time on that than on actual NHL games . With Toronto picking up multiple analytical guys you must think some will be exclusively for drafting purposes .My other point is 4 out of 14 in Europe so maybe they could add a couple more over there . I have never done a % thing on our 50 signed players but if LT thinks 2 of the 7 choices will come from Europe we need more Euro scouts especially when many of there kids ( 17- 19 ) play against men .

  11. Woodguy says:

    Hammers:
    My question is regarding analytics and if Dellow will be told to spend more time on that than on actual NHL games . With Toronto picking up multiple analytical guys you must think some will be exclusively for drafting purposes .My other point is 4 out of 14 in Europe so maybe they could add a couple more over there . I have never done a % thing on our 50 signed players but if LT thinks 2 of the 7 choices will come from Europe we need more Euro scouts especially when many of there kids ( 17- 19 ) play against men .

    Mike Parkatti won the Oilers “hack-a-thon” a couple years back..

    He’s worked with Dark Horse Analytics on draft stuff since that time.

    LT has had Mike on the show around the draft to talk about as much as he can.

    I do not expect Tyler to work on any draft stuff.

  12. rickithebear says:

    /

    Hammers: My other point is 4 out of 14 in Europe so maybe they could add a couple more over there .

    U20 participation by region.
    out of 20.
    9 CAN 45%
    6 USA 30%
    5 Europe. 25%

    4 europe 28.7%
    10 NA 71.3%

  13. Soup Fascist says:

    LT. Going back a bit who would have been involved in the decision to draft Alex Plante in the first round in 2007? I am guessing that was under Pendergrast’s watch.

    That was one I never understood. I saw Plante play a fair bit in his draft year and draft +1, and what struck me was the difficulty he had pivoting, especially to the left. I am not an expert, but it strikes me as that ability would be fairly important – one could say “pivotal” – for a potential NHL defenseman.

    Maybe they loved his size but there were a lot of flaws with Plante’s feet that I could see as a relative layman. I really hope Stu was not the guy pushing that pick as a regional scout. I hate when posters play the “look who we could have drafted instead” card 5 years after the draft. But that was a pick I hated from the time I first saw Plante play. Not sure I will ever get over that one.

  14. Jon K says:

    Haven’t posted a lot lately but have been reading avidly as usual. RE series a great way to read about hockey during the summer, thanks LT.

    I wanted to chime in because I’ve been pretty critical of the Oilers tendency to focus so much on the WHL and BCHL. I think you’ve generally hit on all of my concerns about the spending of picks on the WHL/BCHL at the cost of the OHL and other leagues.

    I did want to comment however, a little more about the Oilers’ focus on the WHL. I understand that there will be a natural emphasis on the WHL because, yes, the Oilers are geographically linked to that league. I do think that there can be benefits to having a special focus on a geographically-linked league. When scouts have more frequent and in-depth access to players, there is a great opportunity to grab players a little early that have potential to outperform even their higher selection (Eberle as an example). There’s also a chance to see more of players who have lesser roles in their 17 y/o seasons who have the ability to succeed in greater roles (Chase as an example).

    However, I cannot see how these benefits can support an argument in favour of drafting a much greater proportion of WHL/BCHL players at the expense of other, superior leagues, such as the OHL.

    Additionally, I think that the analytics component must play a central part in discussions where the team is considering drafting “hidden gems” from the BCHL or other lesser leagues. Saw him good accounts would have to be overwhelmingly compelling if the team is considering taking players that are overage or from inferior leagues where the numbers clearly suggest that the player has essentially no likelihood of an NHL career. Even then, I suspect that a comprehensive review of the history of the BCHL or equivalent league would reveal no hits on selections that were overage and scored less than a P/G.

    In fact, looking at this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_Hockey_League

    The closest I can see from the modern era would be Brandon Yip and Tyler Bozak. Yip put up a P/G in his 19 y/o season, and 1. 5 P/G in his overage season. Bozak was about 0.5 P/G as a 19 y/o, and well over P/G as an overager. For reference, Horcoff scored 145 points in 58 games as a 17 y/o in the BCHL.

    Anyway, I think it’s really interesting to look at the draft tendencies of teams in this manner, LT. I just get steamed about the wasted picks, no matter where they are in the draft. If Coughlin makes it, great, I’ll be very interested to investigate his career as a case study. However, history suggests the Oilers wasted a lottery ticket.

    Given their recent track record, I’d feel much better if the Oilers spent those late round selections on players selected by the European scouts.

  15. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Jon K:
    Haven’t posted a lot lately but have been reading avidly as usual. RE series a great way to read about hockey during the summer, thanks LT.

    I wanted to chime in because I’ve been pretty critical of the Oilers tendency to focus so much on the WHL and BCHL. I think you’ve generally hit on all of my concerns about the spending of picks on the WHL/BCHL at the cost of the OHL and other leagues.

    I did want to comment however, a little more about the Oilers’ focus on the WHL. I understand that there will be a natural emphasis on the WHL because, yes, the Oilers are geographically linked to that league. I do think that there can be benefits to having a special focus on a geographically-linked league. When scouts have more frequent and in-depth access to players, there is a great opportunity to grab players a little early that have potential to outperform even their higher selection (Eberle as an example). There’s also a chance to see more of players who have lesser roles in their 17 y/o seasons who have the ability to succeed in greater roles (Chase as an example).

    However, I cannot see how these benefits can support an argument in favour of drafting a much greater proportion of WHL/BCHL players at the expense of other, superior leagues, such as the OHL.

    Additionally, I think that the analytics component must play a central part in discussions where the team is considering drafting “hidden gems” from the BCHL or other lesser leagues. Saw him good accounts would have to be overwhelmingly compelling if the team is considering taking players that are overage or from inferior leagues where the numbers clearly suggest that the player has essentially no likelihood of an NHL career. Even then, I suspect that a comprehensive review of the history of the BCHL or equivalent league would reveal no hits on selections that were overage and scored less than a P/G.

    In fact, looking at this:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_Hockey_League

    The closest I can see from the modern era would be Brandon Yip and Tyler Bozak. Yip put up a P/G in his 19 y/o season, and 1. 5 P/G in his overage season. Bozak was about 0.5 P/G as a 19 y/o, and well over P/G as an overager.For reference, Horcoff scored 145 points in 58 games as a 17 y/o in the BCHL.

    Anyway, I think it’s really interesting to look at the draft tendencies of teams in this manner, LT. I just get steamed about the wasted picks, no matter where they are in the draft. If Coughlin makes it, great, I’ll be very interested to investigate his career as a case study. However, history suggests the Oilers wasted a lottery ticket.

    Given their recent track record, I’d feel much better if the Oilers spent those late round selections on players selected by the European scouts.

    I had a look at just this issue here:

    http://www.theoilersrig.com/2014/06/betwixt-success-avoidance-strategy/

    key graph:

    Well, I’ve got news for you: A 19 year old (turning 20 this Sept.) who can’t crack a point per game in the BCHL is not going to become an impact player.

    The players that get a sniff of NHL work out of that league (say, this trio from 2007: Kyle Turris, Riley Nash and Jamie Benn as the big success stories) reliably cover off two bases: they are drafted in their first year of eligibility and/or they score at or well above a point per game basis.

    If we look at marginal-to-still-possible NHLers from this league from 2004 through 2010, we can identify one or two areas of concern, which probably relates to their struggles to hit the NHL running.

    Tyler Eckford (2004; 7 NHL games) was drafted in his 19 year old season and failed to a point per game. But, he had 101 PIMs in 58 games. So, there’s a good chance he was drafted as a face-puncher. He spent last season struggling to score in the AHL.

    Raymond Sawada (2004; 11 NHL games), also drafted in his 19 year old season, fell just short of a point per game pace (0.96). He spent last season in the SM-Liiga.

    Zac Dalpe (2008; 96 NHL games), another player drafted in his 19 year old season, scored well above a point per game pace and spent most of the season last year with the Canucks. He’s a tweener at this point and a long-shot to hit 200 NHL games.

    Derek Grant (2008; 25 NHL games) was drafted in his first year of eligibility and scored above a point per game pace. He is currently a tweener and has a slim chance to hit 200 NHL games.

    Beau Bennett (2010; 47 NHL games), drafted in his 19 year old season, blew the doors off the point per game pace (2.14) and is, barring more injuries, going to hit 200 NHL games with no problem.

    Even in this motley group (excepting Bennett), we can see that they bought NHL games by either being drafted earlier and/or scoring more than a player like Liam Coughlin.

  16. Pinus says:

    Lowetide,

    So hockeydb is wrong in tespect to this article. While Pelss was from Latvia and Marincin and Gernat from Slovakia all were scouted from the WHL by the Oilers. As well Toni Rajala was scouted and drafted from the Wheat Kings.

    So in essence over a third of the drafts (35%) were scouted from the WHL. Not that it matters but just emphasizes tmore of he WHL bias.

  17. Ducey says:

    Pinus: Lowetide, So hockeydb is wrong in tespect to this article. While Pelss was from Latvia and Marincin and Gernat from Slovakia all were scouted from the WHL by the Oilers. As well Toni Rajala was scouted and drafted from the Wheat Kings.So in essence over a third of the drafts (35%) were scouted from the WHL. Not that it matters but just emphasizes tmore of he WHL bias.

    Nope. All three were drafted out of Europe and then came over to the WHL a few months later. Pelss was drafted out of Belarus. http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=34663

  18. Hammers says:

    Woodguy: Mike Parkatti won the Oilers “hack-a-thon” a couple years back..He’s worked with Dark Horse Analytics on draft stuff since that time.LT has had Mike on the show around the draft to talk about as much as he can.I do not expect Tyler to work on any draft stuff.

    Thanks so your thoughts are he will strictly be watching the NHL . Also Ricki showed the % breakdown of under 20 players showing 4 Euro scouts as being enough at least % wise . As was also pointed out some of the Euro players get drafted after being in 1 of our junior leagues or colleges . I guess I am still leaning to at least 1 more scout in Europe as they continue to develop more and more young players . Thanks again .

  19. bry_oil says:

    Pinus,

    All the players you have mentioned moved to the CHL after their draft year. Pelss played in Belarus (Riga Junior Team), Marincin with Slovakia U20 team, Gernat with HC Kocise, and Rajala with Ilves (junior and men’s teams) out of Finland. LT is correct, and also verified it all with elite prospects as well.
    Edit: Sorry for saying the same thing as Ducey, had been a while since i loaded my browser

  20. Ducey says:

    Jon K,

    I seem to be spending my time linking things, but Willis did some analysis on the Vessel pick recently

    http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/08/05/of-the-edmonton-oilers-overage-picks-there-probably-isnt-a-better-bet-to-succeed-than-tyler-vesel/

    Comparisons to Pavelski, Matt Read and Andrew Miller.

  21. Jon K says:

    Romulus Apotheosis,

    Good post, Rom.

    Ducey,

    I read that article about Vesel. I’m more talking about players like Coughlin, Muir, Campbell, Bigos, Glasser, Fisher, etc. Players coming from a lesser league without the boxcars suggestive of the potential for NHL employment.

    EDIT: Vesel as an example doesn’t really fit with my criticism. He comes from the USHL, a league which I’d say is a little better than the BCHL and trending upward. Also, Vesel managed over a P/G as a forward, which is encouraging. Basically, all of the positive points JW talked about in his article.

  22. Braden88 says:

    Soup Fascist:
    That was one I never understood.I saw Plante play a fair bit in his draft year and draft +1, and what struck me was the difficulty he had pivoting, especially to the left.I am not an expert, but it strikes me as that ability would be fairly important – one could say “pivotal” –for a potential NHL defenseman.

    Maybe they loved his size but there were a lot of flaws with Plante’s feet that I could see as a relative layman.I really hope Stu was not the guy pushing that pick as a regional scout.I hate when posters play the “look who we could have drafted instead” card 5 years after the draft.But that was a pick I hated from the time I first saw Plante play.Not sure I will ever get over that one.

    Its easy to say that his drafting was a scouts fault or just stupidity; but i think we forget how much of a crap shoot scouting can be.

    When ever i think if Plante i remember how we took Eberle at #22. and right before we drafted him Calgary drafted Greg Nemisz. 1 draft spot difference and you have the difference between a nothing Minor league guy, not even achieving as much as Lander these days. or Eberle, a World Junior Hero, Worlds participant and NHL first liner. Can you really blame Calgary for this?

    As much as drafting is scouting, its also largely a guess. you cant judge how a player will develop. A kids life is not just the summation of his on ice time. Personal Life choices and family and friends support through everyday life; and any other number or average life decisions make a huge huge huge difference.

  23. russ99 says:

    Hammers:
    My question is regarding analytics and if Dellow will be told to spend more time on that than on actual NHL games . With Toronto picking up multiple analytical guys you must think some will be exclusively for drafting purposes .My other point is 4 out of 14 in Europe so maybe they could add a couple more over there . I have never done a % thing on our 50 signed players but if LT thinks 2 of the 7 choices will come from Europe we need more Euro scouts especially when many of there kids ( 17- 19 ) play against men .

    I think that would be a waste of Dellow’s talents.

    You can have all the numbers in the world on these kids, but it’s still a crapshoot if a kid ends up playing 500 NHL games or does nothing, especially after the first round.

  24. Ducey says:

    Jon K: Romulus Apotheosis, Good post, Rom. Ducey,I read that article about Vesel. I’m more talking about players like Coughlin, Muir, Campbell, Bigos, Glasser, Fisher, etc. Players coming from a lesser league without the boxcars suggestive of the potential for NHL employment.EDIT: Vesel as an example doesn’t really fit with my criticism. He comes from the USHL, a league which I’d say is a little better than the BCHL and trending upward. Also, Vesel managed over a P/G as a forward, which is encouraging. Basically, all of the positive points JW talked about in his article.

    I do see a similarity.

    Muir (who turned 19 today – Happy Birthday Aiden!) played last year in the USHL. He scored 41 pts in 54 games. Had he been born 2 months later he would have been in the 2014 draft. In any event, is it possible that he will put up a ppg in the USHL this year in his so called 20 yr old season? Yeah, I think its likely. That would put him in the same area code as Read and Miller, but at 6’3″ and an eventual 200+lbs, its more attractive package. If you take into account his young age for his draft year, maybe they have something there.

    Campbell is a bit more a stretch but even if you think that USHL>BCHL, the difference is not that great, and 66 points in 51 games would likely be equivalent to a ppg in the USHL.

    Coughlin doesn’t have the ppg. He is not Cam Abney though. They probably liked his size and toughness.

  25. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Ducey: I do see a similarity.

    Muir (who turned 19 today – Happy Birthday Aiden!) played last year in the USHL.He scored 41 pts in 54 games.Had he been born 2 months later he would have been in the 2014 draft. In any event, is it possible that he will put up a ppg in the USHL this year in his so called 20 yr old season?Yeah, I think its likely.That would put him in the same area code as Read and Miller, but at 6’3″ and an eventual 200+lbs, its more attractive package.If you take into account his young age for his draft year, maybe they have something there.

    Campbell is a bit more a stretch but even if you think that USHL>BCHL, the difference is not that great, and 66 points in 51 games would likely be equivalent to a ppg in the USHL.

    Coughlin doesn’t have the ppg. He is not Cam Abney though.They probably liked his size and toughness.

    I’m not sure I agree that Coughlin > Abney if the metric is “odds this player becomes an NHLer”. If I had to bet which one would play in the NHL at the time of their draft, I would bet on Abney, on the basis that he’s a superior fighter.

    Not an advocate of the pick, not a fan of the player. But I think, by this metric, Abney > Coughlin is fair. At least Coughlin was 5th round.

  26. VanOil says:

    Off topic.

    Is Benoit Pouliot a candidate for the 2nd line Center role? His total of 39 draws last year suggest he did not play Center last year but did he in Junior? Is his game suited for the position? Old dog new trick or wise hand any position?

  27. Ducey says:

    Ca$h-Money!,

    Ok. I’ll bet on Coughlin and you bet on Abney. :)

  28. Lois Lowe says:

    VanOil,

    Why move someone who has proven to be very effective on the wing?

  29. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    new post.

    http://www.theoilersrig.com/2014/08/bill-scotts-replacement/

    4 months on… bill scott still hasn’t been replaced.

  30. Lowetide says:

    I don’t have a horse in this race, but Abney’s hand injury during one of his OK seasons impacted his career in a big way. He was never going to be a scorer, but they did draft him as an enforcer. He was a very good one in junior until his injury.

    I do think his chances of making the NHL were pretty good based on his ability in that role.

  31. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide:
    I don’t have a horse in this race, but Abney’s hand injury during one of his OK seasons impacted his career in a big way. He was never going to be a scorer, but they did draft him as an enforcer. He was a very good one in junior until his injury.

    I do think his chances of making the NHL were pretty good based on his ability in that role.

    Wrong era for him. But, the Oilers weren’t alone chasing these demons.

    “Sham Sharron” found this guy drafted by the Nucks in 02

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54998

    look at the number of PIMS

    astonishing.

  32. Lowetide says:

    The 70s are great for scorers and pims. I cheered like hell for this guy

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=2911

  33. Romulus Apotheosis says:

    Lowetide,

    Fort Wayne Komets

    with a “K” seems like some kind of cold war joke. at least, I take it as suck.

  34. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Ducey:
    Ca$h-Money!,

    Ok. I’ll bet on Coughlin and you bet on Abney.

    Lol.
    That’s the type of bet where, if either of us wins, as oilers fans we probably both lose.

    Honestly if the bet is Coughlin today vs. Abney today I agree Coughlin has the better odds, as Abney today has established that he won’t make it. I simply mean, at the time of the pick, there was a decent chance that Abney turned into an actual NHL player (a terrible one that made his team noticeably worse whenever he was on the ice).

    A better draft strategy would have been simply to open the Rural South Saskatchewan phone book and pick a name. Seriously, just pick any name from a small town in rural Saskatchewan. Best player in living under that roof gets the call. Honestly better odds than either of those guys.

  35. VanOil says:

    Lois Lowe:
    VanOil,

    Why move someone who has proven to be very effective on the wing?

    Fair point, the last few years have me unnecessarily paranoid about the Oilers centers depth.

  36. Bruce McCurdy says:

    •Keven Bouchard—Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Bill Dandy, Kent Hawley and I think Fred Chabot

    MacGregor on Draft Day: “Freddy Chabot and Sylvain Rodrigue know him really well, so that helps. They’ve been involved with him, and they used that experience to [advise] that he’d be a prospect.”

    Here’s the bio on Sylvain Rodrigue at the Oilers website.

  37. Lowetide says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    •Keven Bouchard—Stu MacGregor, Bob Green, Bill Dandy, Kent Hawley and I think Fred Chabot

    MacGregor on Draft Day: “Freddy Chabot and Sylvain Rodrigue know him really well, so that helps. They’ve been involved with him, and they used that experience to [advise] that he’d be a prospect.”

    Here’s the bio on Sylvain Rodrigue at the Oilers website.

    Ah, Bruce. You’re the best. Read about him and forgot. Thanks.

  38. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Lowetide: Ah, Bruce. You’re the best. Read about him and forgot. Thanks.

    Now that we got 2 goalie coaches I guess this means we need to pick 2 goalies each draft.

  39. Lowetide says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Now that we got 2 goalie coaches I guess this means we need to pick 2 goalies each draft.

    As long as it’s not 33% of all picks!

  40. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Maybe we could kill 4 birds with 1 stone & have Chabot, Rodrigue, MacGregor and Bob Brown pick a 20-year-old goalie with an .885 save percentage out of the BCHL in the last round.

  41. Lowetide says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    Maybe we could kill 4 birds with 1 stone & have Chabot, Rodrigue, MacGregor and Bob Brown pick a 20-year-old goalie with an .885 save percentage out of the BCHL in the last round.

    Ha! Can he fight?

  42. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Lowetide: Ha! Can he fight?

    Coke Machine with a 5-hole.

  43. Jon K says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    Maybe we could kill 4 birds with 1 stone & have Chabot, Rodrigue, MacGregor and Bob Brown pick a 20-year-old goalie with an .885 save percentage out of the BCHL in the last round.

    Hahaha. We could call these kind of selections “extreme passion picks” from now on. The name also has bonus connotations.

    MBS on Hesketh: He’s a guy that Mike Peluso had extreme passion for…

    On Abney: Bob Brown had an extreme passion for him.

    Ducey,

    Muir was drafted out of a midget team, IIRC, not the USHL. For his draft+1 (19y/o) season, less than a P/G in the USHL does not project him to be an NHL player. Of course, the book is far from closed on him.

    Fun fact: Jeff Petry outscored Aidan Muir in his draft+1 year in the USHL.

  44. Ducey says:

    Jon K,

    Fun fact: Jeff Petry outscored Aidan Muir in his draft+1 year in the USHL.

    Someone should have converted Petry to the wing. It would be harder for him to shoot it in his own net.

  45. jp says:

    Romulus Apotheosis: Wrong era for him. But, the Oilers weren’t alone chasing these demons.

    “Sham Sharron” found this guy drafted by the Nucks in 02

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=54998

    look at the number of PIMS

    astonishing.

    Jesus. I wonder what that guy’s doing now… Quite a few enforcers are smart guys, but I gotta think the 600+ PIM mark might indicate a genuine problem.

    Career best season: 0.07 PPG, 9.6 PIM/G. Wow. What’s that – 2 game misconducts per week?

  46. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Nice number with Asheville Aces of the “SPHL” too. 117 PiM in 6 (six) games. I wonder if he finished any if those games

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