SHOUT, SHOUT (LET IT ALL OUT)

Craig MacTavish is halfway through his second season as GM and has fallen ass over tea kettle into McEichel. WHY would he mess with the possibility of acquiring the latest empire builder hockey player?  Answer: He won’t.

  • Benoit Pouliot: “Mostly, I feel bad for the guys because we played hard, battled back, then I go do something so f—ing stupid like that. It’s unacceptable.” Source

Not a word out of place there and Pouliot can’t do that (and yet he does). I’m a fan of the player but he can’t be costing his team with selfish play. Lordy that was stupid and there’s a history of selfishness with this player. Here’s the deal: During his contract with the Oilers, Edmonton will be in at least one playoff race. He can’t be doing that, it has to stop. That said, I can’t get too upset about a regulation loss in a season when the goal is No. 1 or No. 2 overall. That’s the way I see it.

FIRST THINGS FIRST

Jeff Petry SHOULD be a Detroit Red Wing after last night’s game, he’s a perfect fit for a veteran team that could have sustain in the postseason. The great thing about trying to finish No. 30 is that there’s no need to ask after Darren Helm or any other player. It can be a straight Petry for a pick deal, hell take on some money. Jeff Petry, as he now plays, is absolutely going to sewer the McDavid statue that will one day stand alongside the Gretzky (once they drag it over from Rexall using old Skyreach equipment).

BOYD GORDON

 

The other guy Edmonton has to get rid of is Boyd Gordon. Absolutely not helping them get to McDavid.

pakarinen hamilton ferguson 1415

WHO PLAYS INSTEAD?

The Oilers should be auditioning Martin Marincin starting Friday. They should also be calling up (and sending back) all number of prospects to give them a cup of coffee and see how they look on NHL ice. Hopefully you never get another chance to audition kids for a 40-game stretch but this is it. Here’s a short list of possible recalls by position:

  • Goal: Richard Bachman, Laurent Brossoit
  • Defense: Martin Marincin, Brandon Davidson, Dillon Simpson, Jordan Oesterle, Brad Hunt, Martin Gernat, David Musil
  • Center: Bogdan Yakimov, Jujhar Khaira, Travis Ewanyk
  • Left Wing: Curtis Hamilton, Mitch Moroz
  • Right Wing: Iiro Pakarinen, Josh Winquist, Steve Pinizzotto

I’m not saying call them all up, but there are legit NHL prospects here and this is a perfect time to have a prolonged look at them. Players worthy of the full 40 games include Martin Marincin, Brandon Davidson and Iiro Pakarinen. It’s also true that Curtis Hamilton is having a strong year (54% EV GF/GA %) and an extended look might be interesting.

The Oilers should offload five of their veterans between now and the deadline: Jeff Petry, Boyd Gordon and Viktor Fasth, Derek Roy, Teddy Purcell (if they can). Audition the kids. It’s the right thing to do.

 WILL MACT DO THIS?

Yes. Well, he’ll do a version of it. Here are the standings as the teams stand this morning.

standings jan 7 2015

I think there are (reasonably) three contenders for the No. 30 overall position. Carolina is now drunk with Staal’s and that’s going to get them points but Buffalo is well and truly awful and should be considered the main threat for McEichel. MacTavish can’t leave anything to chance—29th and a lost lottery ball means we’re staring Lawson Crouse straight in the eyes—so it’s vital to get Petry and Gordon off the roster.

BLUNT GIF

I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU’RE SAYING THIS AFTER SO MANY YEARS OF SUCK!

Hey, I get it, I understand. Under ordinary circumstances this would be insane, miles from reason. What makes this different? The incredible quality at the top of the draft. One way of showing it is NHL equivalencies (I’m using Vollman here) and comparing McEichel to past No. 1 overall selections. Here’s how it looks:

  1. Connor McDavid 22-48-70
  2. John Tavares (2009) 25-21-46
  3. Taylor Hall (2010) 17-29-46
  4. Jack Eichel 14-32-46
  5. Steven Stamkos (2008) 23-20-43
  6. Nail Yakupov (2012) 18-22-40
  7. Nathan MacKinnon (2013) 17-22-39
  8. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (2011) 11-27-38

I do not expect anyone to join me on the “keep losing” bandwagon. I don’t expect any season ticket holder to read this and go “hey, great idea!” and I do understand the Oilers were gifted three No. 1 overalls and still nothing rhymes. I absolutely agree the Edmonton Oilers don’t deserve this, God that is so true.

Don’t care. Screw that noise. Sedated for McDavid. I’m all-in. Bettman allowed a loophole, kick out the jams and drive that transport right through it. Screw ’em all, I say.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

kidman 9

10 this morning, a full slate, TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Bruce McCurdy, Cult of Hockey. Bruce will chime in on Todd Nelson, McDavid—Eichel, Benoit Pouliot’s very very bad day.
  • Tim Fragle, Head Coach of the Sherwood Park Crusaders, High School Director at Vimy Hockey. We’ll talk about the AJHL as an option for young hockey players.
  • Chris Peters, CBS Sports. World Juniors, plus his thoughts on Joey Laleggia and Zach Nagelvoort.
  • Rob Vollman, ESPN and Bleacher Report. Early days of Todd Nelson, trading Hall, return for Perron, Leafs.
  • James Mirtle, TSN Analytics/Globe and Mail. Do the Leafs need a ‘de-build’ or a tear down?

10-1260 text, @Lowetide_ on twitter. I’m looking forward to this group, should be very interesting.

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267 Responses to "SHOUT, SHOUT (LET IT ALL OUT)"

« Older Comments
  1. Ribs says:

    Auston Matthews ’16: This tie? Can’t we just buy one like it for MacT?

    Tie pic 1

    Tie pic 2

    So it’s lucky Lotto Ties that we need to stock up on for the draft! Everyone wear one (or more!) on draft lottery day and we’re pretty well guaranteed the number one pick! Yeah!

  2. The Artist formerly known as "NYCOIL" says:

    Just for comparison’s sake:

    Toews posted 42 games 22-17-39 his draft year. (0.93pts/gm)

    Paul Kariya posted 39 games, 25-75-100 his draft year. (2.56 pts/gm)

    Eichel has so far posted 16 games 8-19-27 (1.68pts/ gm)
    He is also already 6’3″ and close to 200 lbs.

    He may not score as much as McDavid will, but he has the potential to post 100-pt seasons in the NHL.

  3. Zelepukin says:

    My 2015-16 AHL Oilers:

    Hall – Nuge – Eberle
    Poo – McEichel – Yaks
    Pitlick – Drai – xxx
    Hendricks – Gordon – Klink

    Klef – Jultz
    Marincin – Fayne
    Ference – Aulie
    xxx

    xxx
    Scrivens

  4. Derek says:

    book¡je:

    Furthermore, I have a theory, there are two possible ways to our cognitive dissonance of being passionate about the Oilers while suffering their patheticness.One, the team turns around and becomes competitive OR we, as fans, embrace the warmth and acceptance of being pathetic.

    This sounds like going to the bathroom in your pants on a cold winter day before you realize you stink and you’re wet, moving you even further away from being comfortably warm.

    Just go man, I’m shamefully cheering for 30th too. If they could make it happen while retaining Petry and Gordon? Music!

  5. rich says:

    “Steve Smith”: I’m completely down with losing every game for the rest of the season.My concern is next year, if our centre depth is RNH, McEichel, Draisaitl, and Lander, and our defensive depth is the same as this year minus Petry.

    Well said. There are risks in tanking. If you get the #2 pick and go Eichel, and he’s going back to school, your center depth is even worse than what it was going into this season if you go total scorched earth.

    I also don’t trust MacT to find an adequate C replacement for Gordon for next year. If the “smartest man in the room” was stupid enough to go into this season with the C depth the way it was, what makes anyone think he’s not going to talk himself into another cluster-you-know-what up the middle again next year?

  6. The Artist formerly known as "NYCOIL" says:

    Zelepukin: My 2015-16 AHL Oilers:Hall – Nuge – EberlePoo – McEichel – YaksPitlick – Drai – xxxHendricks – Gordon – KlinkKlef – JultzMarincin – FayneFerence – AuliexxxxxxScrivens

    Were you joking or serious? That team would be in contention for the first overall pick in 2016 again.

  7. Derek says:

    Zelepukin:
    My 2015-16 AHL Oilers:

    Hall – Nuge – Eberle
    Poo – McEichel – Yaks
    Pitlick – Drai – xxx
    Hendricks – Gordon – Klink

    Klef – Jultz
    Marincin – Fayne
    Ference – Aulie
    xxx

    xxx
    Scrivens

    Auston Matthews / Jesse Puljujärvi come on down!

  8. Woodguy says:

    Adam Wu:
    IF Eichel is “franchise” and not “generational”, then Hanifin, Strome and several others are also “franchise”. In which case unless you are guaranteed to finish 30th, there’s not really that much difference between finishing 29th-25th. In all cases you have “x” shot at McDavid which ranges from 8 to 20%, and you get some kind of franchise player as consolation no matter what.

    If you think that Buffalo basically has a lock on 30th, then there’s no point in tanking for 29th. Might as well go for the wins, finish as close to 25th as you can get, and reap all the cultural benefits of having your team experience winning hockey for a stretch of games.

    All the pro scouts aren’t saying that though.

    They say McJesus and Eichel are close then there is a large gap to Hanifin, then a large gap to the rest.

    Eichel is Ovi/Malkin level of elite.

    Hainfin goes first any other year.

    Guys like Strome are in the RNH level of 1st rounders.

  9. wheatnoil says:

    Derek: Auston Matthews / Jesse Puljujärvi come on down!

    I knew this team was missing a Finn!

  10. Lowetide says:

    rich: Well said.There are risks in tanking.If you get the #2 pick and go Eichel, and he’s going back to school, your center depth is even worse than what it was going into this season if you go total scorched earth.

    I also don’t trust MacT to find an adequate C replacement for Gordon for next year.If the “smartest man in the room” was stupid enough to go into this season with the C depth the way it was, what makes anyone think he’s not going to talk himself into another cluster-you-know-what up the middle again next year?

    MacT had a strong checking C in Gordon. He knows that position cold.

  11. Tom Benjamin says:

    Let’s try to keep this factual. I know the urge is to frame issues in black and white, but this isn’t about a rebuild, it’s about a 40-game romp to No. 30 overall for a once in a lifetime talent.

    Special circumstances requiring strange behavior.

    Strange behaviour? It’s okay to take a dive as long as the reward is good enough? How far do the Oilers take it? If they run off a few wins in a row should they play a few games without dressing a goalie to make sure they stay in the McEichel hunt? Scratch Hall and RNH? Hey, the circumstances are “special” so unethical, dishonest behaviour can be labelled as “strange”.

    It’s a disgrace. The Oilers are insulting the game, the league and the fans across North America.

    That said, it probably won’t work anyway. It takes a good organization to win. When Pat Quinn arrived in Vancouver he didn’t just tear apart the team. He burned the organization to the ground. I doubt if this organization will win anything until somebody comes in and does the same thing.

  12. Kitchener says:

    Tank advocates need to recognize their target: Eichel.

    McDavid is going to whichever team gets lotto-lucky. The generational talent cannot be acquired through tanking. https://imgflip.com/i/g4lgh Because math.

    If you’re in favour of tanking, stop thinking about McDavid and start thinking about Eichel. Specifically, “is tank for Jack a plan worth supporting?”

    Only magic ties can secure McDavid.

  13. book¡je says:

    Tom Benjamin: Hey, the circumstances are “special” so unethical, dishonest behaviour can be labelled as “strange”.

    You sound like one of those people who get angry at people who lie on reality TV games like Survivor or Amazing Race. What is unethical about tanking? The rules are designed to encourage tanking.

    In fact, as a longstanding Oiler fan, I am pretty sure that the unethical thing to do in this situation would be to not tank!

  14. Zelepukin says:

    The Artist formerly known as “NYCOIL”: Were you joking or serious? That team would be in contention for the first overall pick in 2016 again.

    Hence the AHL Oilers.

  15. Woodguy says:

    PhrankLee: I think it was confirmed earlier by WG that his numbers have held for 20 games without McDavid.

    Here’s a link to the latest:http://t.co/zIa4BsHPeo

    Strome is 1.45pts/gm without McDavid

    For some context:

    Corey Pronman @coreypronman · Jan 5
    A 1.45 PPG is nothing to sneeze at FYI. Better than Monahan, Skinner, Dal Colle, Hall as 17 year olds (lower than Bennett Seguin, Stamkos)

  16. Woodguy says:

    “Steve Smith”: I’m completely down with losing every game for the rest of the season.My concern is next year, if our centre depth is RNH, McEichel, Draisaitl, and Lander, and our defensive depth is the same as this year minus Petry.

    They will trade PIT #1 for immediate help, probably on D if they draft in the top 2.

    One target is probably Frankeuf.

    There’s a lineup to drive him out of TOR and MacT and Lowe have always liked him.

    Fill the Petry void on RD if they get him.

  17. Lowetide says:

    Tom Benjamin: Strange behaviour? It’s okay to take a dive as long as the reward is good enough? How far do the Oilers take it? If they run off a few wins in a row should they play a few games without dressing a goalie to make sure they stay in the McEichel hunt? Scratch Hall and RNH? Hey, the circumstances are “special” so unethical, dishonest behaviour can be labelled as “strange”.

    It’s a disgrace. The Oilers are insulting the game, the league and the fans across North America.

    That said, it probably won’t work anyway. It takes a good organization to win. When Pat Quinn arrived in Vancouver he didn’t just tear apart the team. He burned the organization to the ground. I doubt if this organization will win anything until somebody comes in and does the same thing.

    I don’t disagree with a word of what you’ve written. It IS a disgrace, the league shouldn’t allow it. However, failing farce (no goalie) all is fair in love and war.

    I’ve come to believe in relegation. If there’s one thing the NHL should adopt as an “Oiler rule” it is relegation. How different the decisions over the last decade would have been!

  18. godot10 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    And finally, the big tell on what constitutes ‘good music?’

    How difficult is it for other musicians to replicate the original recording?

    Superior talent creates output that is exceedingly difficult to emulate with lesser talent.

    1) Not true. The origin of punk music was a backlash against dull virtuosity. There is good punk music.

    2) Ever listen to “Hey, Jude”. Or even “I wanna hold your hand”.

    3) Led Zeppelin was great music, but a lot of “stolen” music. The greatness was in the virtuosity of the interpretation.

    Also throughout music history, the cartel preferred compliant talent to the best talent in many cases.

  19. Unicorns says:

    Tom Benjamin: Strange behaviour? It’s okay to take a dive as long as the reward is good enough? How far do the Oilers take it? If they run off a few wins in a row should they play a few games without dressing a goalie to make sure they stay in the McEichel hunt? Scratch Hall and RNH? Hey, the circumstances are “special” so unethical, dishonest behaviour can be labelled as “strange”.

    It’s a disgrace. The Oilers are insulting the game, the league and the fans across North America.

    That said, it probably won’t work anyway. It takes a good organization to win. When Pat Quinn arrived in Vancouver he didn’t just tear apart the team. He burned the organization to the ground. I doubt if this organization will win anything until somebody comes in and does the same thing.

    I think you’re taking this to heart a bit much. The Oilers don’t have the capability of pulling off nefarious master plans.

    If you want to talk about insulting the game talk to commissioners who keep creating shit shows in places that don’t like hockey and expanding until nobody can ice a strong team. Or talk Toronto and their excellent work over decades at the epicenter of the NHL. Or teams that actually have done blatant sell offs.

  20. godot10 says:

    Lawson Crowse: Sam Pollock drafted Bob Gainey #8 in the first round. Dave Hunter #17 in the first round.

  21. Tom Benjamin says:

    book¡je: You sound like one of those people who get angry at people who lie on reality TV games like Survivor or Amazing Race.What is unethical about tanking?The rules are designed to encourage tanking.

    The rules are not designed to encourage tanking. The reason there is a lottery is specifically to discourage tanking. They obviously haven’t gone far enough yet. I’ve decided that as long as there are teams as unethical as the Oilers, they have to ignore the standings when setting the draft order. Make it a pure lottery with all 30 teams having an equal shot at the top pick.

    About the only thing we can really expect from an athletic competition is for both sides to do everything they can to win. If the Oilers aren’t willing to do that they are cheating us. I’ve never seen either Survivor or the Amazing Race or any other reality TV show but I doubt if either has much to do with reality. Hockey is reality TV. Unless Edmonton is playing apparently.

  22. The Artist formerly known as "NYCOIL" says:

    Zelepukin: Hence the AHL Oilers.

    Ahhh
    I failed reading comprehension
    Does that mean you’ve embraced my relegation idea? Hahahaha

  23. Unicorns says:

    So if they are really going off the hook for this draft, how about using the Pitts 1st and whatever and have a go at Hanifin as well? That would be a coup.

  24. book¡je says:

    Lowetide: I don’t disagree with a word of what you’ve written. It IS a disgrace, the league shouldn’t allow it. However, failing farce (no goalie) all is fair in love and war.

    I’ve come to believe in relegation. If there’s one thing the NHL should adopt as an “Oiler rule” it is relegation. How different the decisions over the last decade would have been!

    Relegation is not possible in North America, you would lose a lot of the public funds that prop up the big salaries in the league. Really, they need to redevelop the draft to better balance the incentives while still ensuring that bad teams have an advantage. Here is what I would do.

    16 teams make the playoffs – 14 do not.

    Round 1 (14 picks) – Non Playoff teams get 1 random pick each
    Round 2 -7 (30 picks) – All teams get 1 pick per round in reverse order of final standings (same as current approach)
    Round 8 (16 picks) – Playoff teams get 1 random pick each

    I think this really balances incentives well. The draw not to tank for teams at the cutoff is that they earn a boatload of playoff money. However, the system still benefits bad teams enough that they should improve.

    Make it so Gary.

  25. frjohnk says:

    Craigs list for Jan 2015
    http://www.tsn.ca/2015-craig-s-list-mcdavid-eichel-still-neck-and-neck-1.175243

    1 Connor Mcdavid

    1 Jack Eichel

    3 Mitchell Marner

    4 Dylan Strome

    5 Noah Hanifan

    6 Zach Werenski

    From Button ” London Knights winger Mitchell Marner, the leading scorer in the Ontario Hockey League, is an electrifying talent. Erie’s Dylan Strome has also been atop the scoring race since the beginning of the season and have both shown they can lead their teams to success in the absence of more highly-acclaimed teammates. They’ve established themselves as the next best two players after McDavid and Eichel. Noah Hanifin is a very good prospect, the difference between him and Michigan blueliner Zach Werenski is razor thin. Along with Sweden’s Oliver Kylington and Russian defenceman Ivan Provorov of the Brandon Wheat Kings, they form a quartet of blueliner who embody what NHL teams are looking for. “

  26. godot10 says:

    Bag of Pucks: I fully agree.

    Everyone’s mileage will vary. Personally I think Kurt Cobain is the most overrated songwriter in the 20th century. I find Rivers Cuomo more interesting. But there are musicians I respect tremendously who remain convinced Cobain is a deity.

    I have nothing against Nirvana. I like Nirvana. But it was entirely derivative of what already had been happening for a decade. It just had not broken into the mainstream yet. Before the Seattle scene. There was the Minneapolis scene, And Prince. The Replacements. Husker Du, and even Soul Asylum.

    Paul Westerberg is an order of magnitude or two better than Kurt Cobain, in every possible conceivable way.

  27. "Steve Smith" says:

    godot10: Paul Westerberg is an order of magnitude or two better than Kurt Cobain, in every possible conceivable way.

    Where does each rank in relation to Dallas Eakins?

  28. Woodguy says:

    Tom Benjamin,

    I’ve decided that as long as there are teams as unethical as the Oilers, they have to ignore the standings when setting the draft order. Make it a pure lottery with all 30 teams having an equal shot at the top pick.

    You’re confusing ethics with competence.

    And goaltending.

  29. "Steve Smith" says:

    Woodguy: They will trade PIT #1 for immediate help, probably on D if they draft in the top 2.

    One target is probably Frankeuf.

    There’s a lineup to drive him out of TOR and MacT and Lowe have always liked him.

    Fill the Petry void on RD if they get him.

    And that would, if I understand you correctly, make our defence as good as this year’s (we need to add in some deterioration in Ference, but presumably also some improvement by Klefbom and/or Marincin, so that could be a wash). Okay, fine, there’s that.

    What about centre? As has been pointed out since my previous comment, Eichel’s not expected to play in the NHL next year in any case (hooray, frankly), but that leaves the centre depth, before any moves, as RNH-Draisaitl-Lander-????. Spoiler pointed out above how little there is available in terms of Gordon replacement on the UFA market, so where does that leave things?

    I’m not married to any particular course of action, frankly; I just think that the Oilers are in an all together lamentable state, and that tanking is not going to do much to improve it.

  30. And your name is? says:

    Kitchener: If you’re in favour of tanking, stop thinking about McDavid and start thinking about Eichel. Specifically, “is tank for Jack a plan worth supporting?”

    My math includes magic ties.

    0.2 * 70 + 0.8 * 46 = 50.8

    The extra 5 points is roughly the difference between Hall and Yakupov, to go by the numbers given above.

  31. book¡je says:

    "Steve Smith"
    I’m not married to any particular course of action, frankly; I just think that the Oilers are in an all together lamentable state, and that tanking is not going to do much to improve it.

    Hi All, this is just a warning. Steve Smith is not to be trusted. Really, could anybody really have the name ‘Steve Smith’. In the future he will start to spread vicious lies, starting with accusations against me. He will try to tear us apart. We need to band together and ignore what he says. We must stop ‘Steve Smith’.

  32. Woodguy says:

    "Steve Smith": And that would, if I understand you correctly, make our defence as good as this year’s (we need to add in some deterioration in Ference, but presumably also some improvement by Klefbom and/or Marincin, so that could be a wash).Okay, fine, there’s that.

    What about centre?As has been pointed out since my previous comment, Eichel’s not expected to play in the NHL next year in any case (hooray, frankly), but that leaves the centre depth, before any moves, as RNH-Draisaitl-Lander-????.Spoiler pointed out above how little there is available in terms of Gordon replacement on the UFA market, so where does that leave things?

    I’m not married to any particular course of action, frankly; I just think that the Oilers are in an all together lamentable state, and that tanking is not going to do much to improve it.

    Well………Derek Roy is available.

    Ha!

    Seriously though, we can’t judge next year until the summer moves are over.

    Waaaaaaaay to many moving pieces to even begin to start to draw conclusions.

    We have no idea what the roster will look like.

  33. Tom Benjamin says:

    Woodguy:
    Tom Benjamin,

    I’ve decided that as long as there are teams as unethical as the Oilers, they have to ignore the standings when setting the draft order. Make it a pure lottery with all 30 teams having an equal shot at the top pick.

    You’re confusing ethics with competence.

    And goaltending.

    I don’t think so. I’ve been calling Kevin Lowe incompetent for more than 15 years. One does not preclude the other. I don’t think the Oilers planned to be in this particular spot last summer, but I also think that the plan right now is to take a deep breath and dive.

  34. Lowetide says:

    Tom Benjamin: I don’t think so. I’ve been calling Kevin Lowe incompetent for more than 15 years. One does not preclude the other. I don’t think the Oilers planned to be in this particular spot last summer, but I also think that the plan right now is to take a deep breath and dive.

    You were calling Kevin Lowe incompetent in the spring of 2006? That’s impressive. Not doubting you, I honestly didn’t see a lot wrong with his work initially coming out of the lockout. He badly mismanaged the summer of 2006 though and that certainly impacted the next decade.

  35. wheatnoil says:

    book¡je: Steve, I’m so disappointed.Its as though you have lost all faith in the rebuild.

    Personally, I have full faith the Oilers can finish last while still resigning Petry AND not trading Gordon AND not appear to be tanking. Just got to convince Nelson to pair Nikitin and Schultz back together and run them ragged.

    Also, Luke Gazdic. Why isn’t he taking a regular shift?

  36. knighttown says:

    People are saying they’ve done the math but have they really?

    Are you aware that one of the quirks of this draft format is that Jack Eichel can pretty much start house shopping the day the season ends. There’s an 80% chance Eichel goes to the last place team. If Buffalo finishes last it’s 80% Eichel and 20% McDavid. It’s that simple. So Eichel will be earned by the last place team. Fair?

    McDavid is a lottery ticket of which the Oilers will have gained plenty of tickets. They may have 12% of the tickets, they may have 9% or they may have 20%. Not enough of a gap to be worried about.

    So to earn Eichel you have to beat Buffalo. I wish I could post some graphs or maybe LT would but I recommend you look at Micah Blake McCurdys work over at InneffectiveMath.

    With things like Save % adjusted fenwick and SVO Corsi it’s Buffalo then a bunch of space then a bunch of bad teams and then teams like edmonton. Buffalo is in the 30s. No one else is under 45 and Edmonton is in the high 40s with teams like Montreal and even Vancouver.

    Edmonton and Buffalo could play 40 games like the ones they just played 100 times and never again would Buffalo beat them. 1 in 100 at least. All of the bad luck Edmonton has had…the opposite is true in Buffalo. Or at least with respect to Save Percentage. Our own Woodguy has been screeching this from the rooftops for months and now we’re going to burn it down because we think we can go toe to toe with Buffalo. We can’t. The gap is simply massive.

    This is Canada vs Denmark in the quarters. Yes, Edmonton has to continue to play the game and be optimistic and hope for a miracle like Denmark did. Maybe goaltending will save the day. But Christ, let’s not do anything we’d regret here. Play out the string and see what happens.

  37. russ99 says:

    Kitchener:

    McDavid is going to whichever team gets lotto-lucky.The generational talent cannot be acquired through tanking.https://imgflip.com/i/g4lgh Because math.

    Only magic ties can secure McDavid.

    I’m expecting a Patrick Ewing-like scam by Bettman to put “McEwing” on the Flyers, or with one of the “Bettman teams” in non-traditional hockey markets.

    You can bet on the lottery not landing on Edmonton or Buffalo.

  38. leadfarmer says:

    There is actually zero evidence that MacT can actually find a good bottom 6 center given that he was not able to find one in either of his two years as GM and was content with starting the season with 2 rookie centers. Trading Gordon would be a disaster to this rebuild. He wouldn’t bring much in return, would probably not be replaced in the summer and we will spend the next 5 years wishing for that player to come back.

    Same thing goes for Petry. I’m sure he’ll bring a second round pick and a B level prospect, both of which will be squandered. he will then be replaced by a rookie who will be in over his head.

    Rinse and repeat with this organization. Keep Petry, keep Gordon, find some goalies. Get the players used to Nelson’s system and hit the ground running when next season starts so we don’t have to spend the first ten games of the season auditioning the 4th line left winger.

  39. russ99 says:

    godot10: backlash against dull virtuosity.

    Ironic. The reason I vastly prefer Cobain to Westerberg is “backlash against dull virtuosity.”

  40. G Money says:

    book¡je: Relegation is not possible in North America, you would lose a lot of the public funds that prop up the big salaries in the league.Really, they need to redevelop the draft to better balance the incentives while still ensuring that bad teams have an advantage.Here is what I would do.

    16 teams make the playoffs – 14 do not.

    Round 1 (14 picks) – Non Playoff teams get 1 random pick each
    Round 2 -7 (30 picks) – All teams get 1 pick per round in reverse order of final standings (same as current approach)
    Round 8 (16 picks) – Playoff teams get 1 random pick each

    I think this really balances incentives well.The draw not to tank for teams at the cutoff is that they earn a boatload of playoff money.However, the system still benefits bad teams enough that they should improve.

    Make it so Gary.

    I like that a lot. I’d also consider just doing away with Round 8.

    Structurally, the NHL is NOT a level playing field, not even close. It favours: Eastern teams (because of travel), southern teams (because of weather), big city teams (because of glamour), and already-good teams (free agents come at a discount rather than a premium).

    The draft is the ONLY countering element in a system that is stacked against bad teams, northern teams, western teams, and small city teams (of which Edmonton gloriously fits every one).

    The idea that, because one or two teams MAY be in a situation to tank each year, somehow justifies torching the ‘bad teams draft first’ concept as some have proposed is fucking ridiculous.

    That said, I buy the idea of a more of a random draft if the other structural biases in the league are simultaneously addressed.

    For example:
    – Equalize the travel. Western teams get more home games than Eastern teams. Have the East-West team series be three games, with two of them ALWAYS at home in the West.
    – Southern/big city teams pay a premium against the cap (i.e. a $5M free agent eats 5.5M of the cap), while northern/small teams get a discount against the cap.
    – Roll that together and then have a random non-playoff-team only first round, and you have a system that is actually close to a level playing field, while taking away the incentive to tank.

    Otherwise, for the rather pointless result of removing the incentive for one or two teams to tank some years, you further entrench and exacerbate the inequality of an already heavily biased playing field.

  41. Zangetsu says:

    Strongly disaggree, marincin should stay in the minors now. I’m not sure it’s hurting his development, but if we want to lose, he isn’t helping. Hall needs to be rested for his knee. I don’t think ebs is still hurt but if he is, he needs to be out too.

    Pouliot Nuge Gazdic
    Yak Roy Purcell
    Hendricks Lander Fraser
    Klinkhammer

    Jultz and Hunt
    Nikiitin and Klefbom
    Oesterle and Fayne
    Aulie

    Bunz
    Scrivens

    This is possibly doable, and this team will win us 30th.

  42. Adam Wu says:

    Tom Benjamin:
    About the only thing we can really expect from an athletic competition is for both sides to do everything they can to win. If the Oilers aren’t willing to do that they are cheating us.

    Tanking = doing what you think is best for winning, in the future.

    If not tanking = 80 pts this year, and 400pts over the next five, but tanking = 60 points this year and 500 pts over the next five, then which of the two would *really* be the “unethical action that cheats the fans of competitive sport”, hm?

    One can argue the specific merits as to whether or not tanking really IS the best way forward for the most points (ie the best way to win for the longest period), but to say that it is unethical because it involves not trying to compete requires a wholly arbitrary and unjustifiable deliberate limitation on the meaning of the word “compete” to make the argument.

    The question as to whether or not the rules “encourage” it is irrelevant. “Encouragement” in the rules is always subject to interpretation. What CAN be said is the rules ALLOW it. There is nothing unethical in doing what the rules allow to advance one’s own position for whatever term (short, medium, long) one believes is most appropriate, unless the rules THEMSELVES were unethically imposed. Again, one can argue if what one believes to be the best way within the rules to meet one’s competitive goals (again, whatever short, medium, or long term strategy one prefers) actually IS the most effective way of meeting those goals, but then we are talking about competence and not ethics.

  43. G Money says:

    knighttown:

    So Eichel will be earned by the last place team. Fair?

    With things like Save % adjusted fenwick and SVO Corsi it’s Buffalo then a bunch of space then a bunch of bad teams and then teams like edmonton. Buffalo is in the 30s. No one else is under 45 and Edmonton is in the high 40s with teams like Montreal and even Vancouver.

    The 30th place team has the best shot at McDavid, and is guaranteed at least Eichel. That’s the description used most commonly so far as far as I can see, and I think that is a more correct summary than “Eichel will be earned by the last place team”.

    As to the Garbage Bowl showdown between the Greasers and the Dull Blades, the easiest way to underperform or outperform underlying possession metrics is straightforward: goalkeeping.

    Despite the horrendous gap between BUF and EDM you’ve described, it is EDM in DFL, not BUF! Because goaltending.

    If Scrivens and Fasth as well as Enroth and Neuvirth continue to provide each team competent to excellent goaltending, you are correct, it’s not even going to be close. BUF wins McEichel in a walk.

    But one hot streak by Enroth or Neuvirth and BUF loses. One stumble back to the cold streak by Scrivens and Fasth and its probably also game over.

    It’s also why Woodguy was 100% correct earlier when he said: “You’re confusing ethics with competence. And goaltending.”

    Good goaltending cures all, bad goaltending kills all. And goalies for the most part are voodoo.

  44. kooler says:

    Woodguy,

    WOW….missed all this.

    I love the blog, not sure I could deal with consciously tanking the season. I think I would give up on the Oilers if that happened.

    What about this and this maybe a total stretch….I don’t completely know the value of these player but I’m just throwing this out there.

    There are 3 or 4 teams in the hunt ( not by choice I hope ) for 1st OV…the chances from what I hear are at best 20% the Oil get 1st, Buffalo seems to be tanking and will be dumping, Arizona trending down, Carolina tending up. Why not take their two best players maybe 3 and trade our 1st round pics. This guarantees 3 – 1st round picks for a trade partner. I’m not sure these 4 teams want to consider rebuilding but 2 top 10 pics and another 1st is pretty good…one of these teams will quietly make the decision to push towards last.

    Give
    Both 2015 – 1st round picks (maybe a sweetener AHL’er)

    Return Options
    Buffalo
    Girgensons and Meyers with an Enroth
    Arizona
    Combination of Vermette /Hanzal and Yandle

    You bring any of these pairings; guys like Petry and Gordon may see the organization building for today and not for 3 years down the road. The kids may not make it to see another 1st OV play to a potential and we’ll be chasing our rebuild tail forever. Viktor Fasth, Derek Roy, Teddy Purcell I’m ok with moving but Petry and Gordon are anchors and you need that type of stability.

    I’m just a fan of hockey and not even sure any of this makes sense…..but tanking just doesn’t feel good.

  45. Kitchener says:

    russ99,

    Video review of the lotto ball falling will happen in Toronto…

    “The Maple Leafs are proud to select Connor McDavid!”

  46. G Money says:

    russ99: I’m expecting a Patrick Ewing-like scam by Bettman to put “McEwing” on the Flyers, or with one of the “Bettman teams” in non-traditional hockey markets.
    You can bet on the lottery not landing on Edmonton or Buffalo.

    NJD or Philly. I think of Lamo and Snider as Cheney to Bettman’s Bush. LOL.

    With an outside shot for ARZ (the reason for outside shot being that would be *too* obvious, even for the NHL).

  47. Zangetsu says:

    I’d like to see 20 teams make playoffs.

    Three pairs per conference would follow as normal. Teams 7 through ten would play in a mini tourney for the last two spots. First 9 and ten play, then winner plays 8th. I would make these a fairly grueling series so as to disadvantage teams that started lower. Like games in six back to back nights (two three games series). I’m also partial to a two game total goal series, so maybe a best of three then two game total goal series.

    I would love to see this as it would keep all but the worst three or four teams in the hunt, and puts an emphasis on final standings, as 1st place gets a worn out team, and 8th place has to prove that they deserve the spot.

    The number of teams that don’t make the playoffs is just too high for my taste.

  48. Bag of Pucks says:

    godot10: 1) Not true.The origin of punk music was a backlash against dull virtuosity.There is good punk music.

    2) Ever listen to “Hey, Jude”.Or even “I wanna hold your hand”.

    3) Led Zeppelin was great music, but a lot of “stolen” music.The greatness was in the virtuosity of the interpretation.

    Also throughout music history, the cartel preferred compliant talent to the best talent in many cases.

    I tried to address this with the follow up post. I’m advocating ‘execution’ not ‘virtuosity’ and therein is where the talent lies imo.

    To use the punk example, what makes Johnny Rotten difficult to emulate is the attitude and while not complex, it’s a talent unique to him. When he sneers, ‘I want to be an anarchist!,’ it carries some weight.

    Any band can cover the Pistols, but it won’t have the same edge without that nihilist attitude that Lydon personifies. Pap is typically vanilla in its execution.

  49. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: MacT had a strong checking C in Gordon. He knows that position cold.

    Yes but he neither creates or dictates the market.

    He also knows 2C cold too and how did that work out? And last summer there were far more good Cs available than this coming summer.

    There are plenty of ways to tank without trading Gordon and thus risk removing all cover for your developing Centres next year.

  50. knighttown says:

    G Money: The 30th place team has the best shot at McDavid, and is guaranteed at least Eichel.That’s the description used most commonly so far as far as I can see, and I think that is a more correct summary than “Eichel will be earned by the last place team”.

    But one hot streak by Enroth or Neuvirth and BUF loses.One stumble back to the cold streak by Scrivens and Fasth and its probably also game over.

    I just think it’s an interesting quirk in this years draft that the second best player knows almost for certain he’s going to the NHLs worst team where the best player could go anywhere. It’s a very odd lottery…almost McDavid specific in its intent.

    And yes, we got a miracle in the first half by beating Buffalo to DFL so therefore it is possible to do it again. Of course, I wouldnt recommend telling lottery winners that they can spend their winnings because they just proved that they could win the lottery and therefore should expect to win it again.

    I would however keep my tickets handy in case lightning strikes twice. I’m not advocating MacTavish fight like hell to get to 23rd but I also don’t think trading Petry, Gordon, Roy and Purcell is the right play either.

    Stay the course and grab McDavid if you’re lucky, Eichel if you’re terrible or Hanifen if you keep on keeping on.

  51. Bag of Pucks says:

    Here’s the thing with purposely tanking.

    Say the situation is reversed and the Oil have a respectable first half to the season, followed by a cellar dweller second half. No one would want or advocate that. It would be a disaster.

    But for some reason, a cellar first half followed by a respectable second half is somehow folly?

    The goal is and must always be, winning. Committing to losing ensures….wait for it, more effing losing!

    We need to find a good coach. We need our core to progress and become leaders. Drafting Eichel doesn’t set them up to press a button and magically make that happen. It simply fills one single roster hole.

    The sooner this team turns North, the better the chance we don’t have to visit the likelihood of rebuild 3.0. If you want the core as comprised to reach the mountaintop, you’re not advocating tanking, cos that’s admission 3ovs isn’t a good enough core. Pathetic.

  52. Dee Dee says:

    SportsClubStats.com currently has both Buffalo and Edmonton winning the race for the toilet bowl with 61 points, tied!

    Not sure what the numbers mean but Edmontons “Count” at 61 points is 77,907,245
    while Buffalo has a “Count” of 79,824,290 at 61 points.

    Looks like a photo finish.

    Carolina is projected at 69 points. Arizona at 72.

    Amateurs.

    Bruins are listed at only 23.4% chance of making the playoffs, might be a good trading partner for the Oil. They’ll be desperate to make the playoffs.

    I’m really ambivalent about grabbing one of the first two picks in 2015.

    I understand the mathematical rationalization for doing it, but it still seems like defibrillating a corpse. Parrot sketch from Monty Python deaded.

    I guess they are just pining for the Fjords.

  53. Dee Dee says:

    knighttown: I just think it’s an interesting quirk in this years draft that the second best player knows almost for certain he’s going to the NHLs worst team where the best player could go anywhere. It’s a very odd lottery…almost McDavid specific in its intent.

    Well I wouldn’t say ANYWHERE, certainly not a good team.

  54. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: Seriously though, we can’t judge next year until the summer moves are over.

    Generally the UFA market becomes smaller as spring and summer progress, not larger. Our view now Is about as optimistic as we can get and this year it is already bloody dismal. There is SFA out there.

    Unless of course you are talking about trading assets to get a Gordon, but then why did we trade Gordon?

  55. book¡je says:

    Tom Benjamin: I don’t think so. I’ve been calling Kevin Lowe incompetent for more than 15 years. One does not preclude the other. I don’t think the Oilers planned to be in this particular spot last summer, but I also think that the plan right now is to take a deep breath and dive.

    I called Kevin Lowe incompetent in 1979, he had a terrible shift and was responsible for a goal against.

  56. Tom Benjamin says:

    Lowetide: You were calling Kevin Lowe incompetent in the spring of 2006? That’s impressive. Not doubting you, I honestly didn’t see a lot wrong with his work initially coming out of the lockout. He badly mismanaged the summer of 2006 though and that certainly impacted the next decade.

    Plenty of Oiler fans waved 2006 in my face at the time. I wrote it off as a fluke set up by an artificially low salary cap. The result was the worst two teams ever in a SCF. I expected both teams to disappoint thereafter. Lowe spent the years running up to the lockout telling everyone he couldn’t compete because of money even though teams like Ottawa could. I would tell anyone who would listen that the problem with the Oilers had nothing to do with the CBA. The problem was that the Oilers did not produce enough NHL players.

    Same problem 15 years later.

  57. misfit says:

    The loss of Petry is going to sting…a lot.

    I’m right there with you in the tank for the #1. Getting McDavid would pretty much solve all of our forward problems, I really believe that. He’s jut that good.

    The problem comes when you’re trying to ice an actual defense next year. If we trade Petry, we’ll have to replace him. Nurse, despite all the good things he’s doing as a junior, is not an adequate replacement. Neither are Schultz, Fayne or Nikitin (who are already a part of the team and wouldn’t really be replacements anyway). Free agency might bring us a replacement, but will anybody capable of replacing him sign here? Could we get them for less, and will they still be useful in 3 years? Probably no to both.

    If we have to give Petry term and $4.5M to keep him, so be it. He’s only 27 and will still be a legit top 4 option 5 years from now. But replacing him will be tough to do.

  58. Numenius says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Here’s the thing with purposely tanking.

    Say the situation is reversed and the Oil have a respectable first half to the season, followed by a cellar dweller second half. No one would want or advocate that. It would be a disaster.

    But for some reason, a cellar first half followed by a respectable second half is somehow folly?

    The goal is and must always be, winning. Committing to losing ensures….wait for it, more effing losing!

    We need to find a good coach. We need our core to progress and become leaders. Drafting Eichel doesn’t set them up to press a button and magically make that happen. It simply fills one single roster hole.

    The sooner this team turns North, the better the chance we don’t have to visit the likelihood of rebuild 3.0. If you want the core as comprised to reach the mountaintop, you’re not advocating tanking, cos that’s admission 3ovs isn’t a good enough core. Pathetic.

    Exactly. I was thinking this earlier, but couldn’t have put it as well as you.

    It was the right thing for the team not to finish bottom 2 last year and it will be the right thing again this year.

  59. Numenius says:

    Lowetide: However, failing farce (no goalie) all is fair in love and war.

    He’s not saying it’s “not fair,” he’s saying it’s a “disgrace”. Those are two different things.

  60. Lowetide says:

    misfit:
    The loss of Petry is going to sting…a lot.

    I’m right there with you in the tank for the #1.Getting McDavid would pretty much solve all of our forward problems, I really believe that.He’s jut that good.

    The problem comes when you’re trying to ice an actual defense next year. If we trade Petry, we’ll have to replace him.Nurse, despite all the good things he’s doing as a junior, is not an adequate replacement.Neither are Schultz, Fayne or Nikitin (who are already a part of the team and wouldn’t really be replacements anyway). Free agency might bring us a replacement, but will anybody capable of replacing him sign here?Could we get them for less, and will they still be useful in 3 years?Probably no to both.

    If we have to give Petry term and $4.5M to keep him, so be it.He’s only 27 and will still be a legit top 4 option 5 years from now.But replacing him will be tough to do.

    Yes. I think the Oilers could run RH side of Fayne, Marincin (he can play right side) and Schultz but that means the LH side has to include two really good options. With Nikitin and Ference representing the veteran left side, and Klefbom still developing?

    They won’t make the playoffs next season imo. That said, Petry is already gone so that bird has flown.

  61. PunjabiOil says:

    Plenty of Oiler fans waved 2006 in my face at the time. I wrote it off as a fluke set up by an artificially low salary cap. The result was the worst two teams ever in a SCF. I expected both teams to disappoint thereafter. Lowe spent the years running up to the lockout telling everyone he couldn’t compete because of money even though teams like Ottawa could. I would tell anyone who would listen that the problem with the Oilers had nothing to do with the CBA. The problem was that the Oilers did not produce enough NHL players.

    Same problem 15 years later.

    I actually agree with this, and archived posts on HF can confirm it.

    Lowe had built a reasonable team (not a contender), but he simply didn’t understand value. Getting Chris Pronger was huge, but also based on a non-recurring event. There was opportunity to lock up Smyth, Horcoff, Stoll, Hemsky, and Pisani right after the lockout long-term, entering the prime of their careers. Instead, all but Smyth (2 years) got signed to 1 year deals.

    That hurt, and the Oilers paid full dollar on their next contracts.

    Pre-lockout, let Marchant walk by offering him less than veteran minimum, allowing him to be a free agent one year earlier. Did not get any asset in return.

    Subsequent to the cup run, locked up every player on the downside of his career to lucrative contracts (both term and dollar) in Moreau, Staios, and Pisani. Keep in mind, Scott Howson was on record saying that Pisani’s camp was asking 1.1M in January 2006, but the management decided to wait it out and it ended up costing them.The player who should have got a 5-6 year deal at that time was Horcoff, but only gave him 3 years.

    Lowe blundered up the Pronger trade (trading him far too early – in July. To quote Lou “If you have time, use it”) for picks and prospects, and not a single player who would drive the bus.

    Then under his watch/co-GM with Tambellini (in his words, Lowe said he had the final hammer on all transactions), what exactly does he have to show for the following assets:

    Souray
    Visnovsky
    Gilbert
    Torres
    Lupul/Pitkanen/Cole
    Horcoff
    Brodziak
    Glencross
    Cogliano
    Hemsky

    Kevin Lowe exemplifies why 9 years after, the Oilers are still fighting for 30th.

  62. PunjabiOil says:

    As for tanking – I think you make an effort to sign Petry, but if there is no interest on his end (Petry did indicate he is “open to talks”), or if you’re set on trading him and replacing him with Boychuk in the summer, then yes, trading him sooner rather than later makes sense.

    Gordon is a tougher one. Great player, but you can bet he’ll be asking (and probably getting) a 3-4 year contract. But like everything, depends on the value – if you can get a 1st round pick or a legitimate prospect for him, you have to pull the trigger. If it’s a second round pick, it’s probably prudent to wait it out until next deadline.

  63. Tom Benjamin says:

    They won’t make the playoffs next season imo. That said, Petry is already gone so that bird has flown.

    I don’t think Eichel added to the mess will be nearly enough either. The year after? Maybe. I’m guessing that about the time the Oilers are really competitive, they will have to start trading expensive players for futures just to get under the cap. The Oil will have six forwards who are elite or projected to be elite. They probably cannot all get there because there is only one puck and limited ice time. At least two of the six will turn out to be disappointments. What chance will Draiseitl get behind RNH and Eichel?

    Paying even four elite forwards is a stretch if you want any depth, a decent defense and good goaltending. Eichel and Nurse will be coming off their ELCs as Hall heads into FA won’t they?

    I’m going to guess they will end up dealing two of Eberle, Draiseitl and Yakupov to get cap compliant. It will be tough to get value for them because 1) their value is depressed because of their Edmonton experience, and 2) they won’t have cap space to take a good player back in a deal.

  64. book¡je says:

    I think some of you need to realize that in the NHL there are two winners each season and 28 losers. The Oilers are one of a few teams who quite realistically have the chance to be one of those winners, the biggest loser winner! That type of opportunity doesn’t happen every year (remember the lockout season – sigh) so they better take advantage of it when it comes.

  65. PunjabiOil says:

    I don’t think Eichel added to the mess will be nearly enough either. The year after? Maybe. I’m guessing that about the time the Oilers are really competitive, they will have to start trading expensive players for futures just to get under the cap. The Oil will have six forwards who are elite or projected to be elite. They probably cannot all get there because there is only one puck and limited ice time. At least two of the six will turn out to be disappointments. What chance will Draiseitl get behind RNH and Eichel?

    Paying even four elite forwards is a stretch if you want any depth, a decent defense and good goaltending. Eichel and Nurse will be coming off their ELCs as Hall heads into FA won’t they?

    I’m going to guess they will end up dealing two of Eberle, Draiseitl and Yakupov to get cap compliant. It will be tough to get value for them because 1) their value is depressed because of their Edmonton experience, and 2) they won’t have cap space to take a good player back in a deal.

    You worry about that when it happens. You can never have too much depth or assets, and can always use said assets to address team needs.

  66. Kitchener says:

    G Money,

    “The 30th place team has the best shot at McDavid, and is guaranteed at least Eichel. That’s the description used most commonly so far as far as I can see, and I think that is a more correct summary than “Eichel will be earned by the last place team”.

    I agree with your statement but there’s room for improvement. Here’s a refined version that builds on what you and I say:

    “The 30th place team is guaranteed at least Eichel, plus earns a 6.5-19% improved chance at the McLottery.”

    The strength of your wording is that it’s accurate. The weakness is that it permits the “Tank = McDavid” crowd to continue incorrectly believing that tanking = McJesus.

    It’s the order of information presented. Not “Tank = McDavid with a chance of Eichel”, but “Tank = Eichel with a slightly improved chance of McDavid”. LT’s Vollman number showing McDavid at 70 and everyone else between 46-38 is exactly the problem. We all want McDavid and think losing gets him, but math prevents “Tank = McDavid” and it’s time we all accept it.

    I’d like McD’s statue next to Gretz on 104th as much as the next guy and hope like hell we get him. I can still remember the first moment I saw McJesus play live and everything about it. But Bettman & co. put math in place to prevent “Tank = McDavid” and this blog is too damn smart to keep pretending in silly lies.

    …except for lies involving magic ties, which are true. Strategies involving ties are true magic and MacT is an idiot if he doesn’t ink Tambo immediately.

  67. Kitchener says:

    LT – congrats on stirring the pot so successfully. “Tank or not” is exactly the issue and this post’s comments’ incongruity highlight the ugly truth that this is a real and disputed issue. If fans can’t agree, imagine what management/ownership is thinking.

    It’s safe to say that players/coaches are trying to win every game, but management/ownership has a different skill set and different responsibilities. I’d bet my lunch that management/ownership has thought many of the thoughts expressed in these comments and honestly don’t know their next move.

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