RE 14-15 BOYD GORDON: WHIPPING POST

Boyd Gordon has one of the toughest jobs in show business. While the kids run wild, Gordon does the dirty work and dreams of the offensive zone. He’s well paid for the chore but he earns every penny and that’s for sure.

RE 14-15: 72GP, 5-15-20 .278

ACTUAL 14-15: 68GP, 6-7-13 .191

BOYD GORDON BOXCARS THREE YEAR TREND

boyd gordon fancy three year

BOYD GORDON FANCY NUMBERS THREE YEAR TREND

boyd gordon boxcars three year

  1. I was wondering who would get this song. Yeah, could have been any number of players or management, but for me Gordon really had a tortured season. Again.
  2. Look at those zone starts! Yes, it’s insane really. I’d have to say, that if he’d been healthy, Gordon would have been a strong team MVP candidate.
  3. Who was your MVP? Nuge.
  4. Will Gordon’s role change? It could, I imagine they could use his line as a trad checking line, but why bother? Drastic zone starts and 44% possession is about as good as it’s going to get until the Oilers are pushing the river with those three scoring lines.
  5. Wait! Three scoring lines?!?! Settle down, we’ll get to it.
  6. He’ll play with Hendricks and Klinkhammer? There’s a new sheriff in town, so we’ll have to wait and see. Klinkhammer has no bat at all, 1-1-2 in 290 minutes of 5×5 with Gordon-Hendricks. I know the ZS’s are tough, but lordy that’s third-string catcher bad offensively.
  7. Are there other candidates for that RW job? Sure. Tyler Pitlick is the most prominent but Anton Lander may end up there if Nuge-Connie Mack-Leon becomes an option up the middle. I suspect we’ll see a slow playing of the kids up the middle, so 2015-16 should see Gordon in the same role.
  8. And then he’s gone? Likely not, I think Gordon is a strong re-signing option for Chiarelli in the next 12 months.
  9. You tried to trade Gordon at the deadline. I felt Edmonton was unlikely to re-sign him, but that’s all changed.  If they have a less expensive option who can deliver the same level of performance, then it makes sense. Gordon did have some back issues last season (twice) and he’s past 30, so there’s no guarantee he’ll keep being Boyd Gordon.
  10. Who will replace him eventually? We have to remember that there’s a new GM and he has employed men in similar roles, too.  There may be options available to him we haven’t considered before now.
  11. Did the Bruins have a tough ZS center? Two actually. Gregory Campbell and Patrice Bergeron.
  12. How tough the ZS’s? Campbell was 39.95% and Bergeron 43%.
  13. How much did Campbell make?  $1.7M.
  14. Would he be a suitable replacement? Hmm. I prefer Gordon, but Campbell has some nice things. Wins 53.6% of his face-offs, agitates opponents, but his partner in crime Daniel Paille appears to be the better player.
  15. Who is the tough ZS center-in-waiting under Oilers control? I think Anton Lander is the best option but you never know who might grow into that role down the line. Oilers liked Jujhar Khaira a ton last time they talked about such things, so maybe he ends up doing it, there’s not a lot of offense in him so you’re not sacrificing a great bat.
  16. What do you think Chiarelli will think of the minor league talent? Well, he sure spent a lot of time looking at those men in his first week on the job.
  17. Seriously. I wrote a thing over at ON yesterday, suspect all of the kids down there will get a giant helping of more AHL for the next several seasons. Chiarelli appears to like his minor league prospects well seasoned.
  18. Will life change for the prospects in OKC? Sure, there is always a culling of the herd in spring. Chiarelli’s RFA flushes will probably be identical to what MacT had planned, but there are going to be casualties either way among Tyler Pitlick, Matt Fraser, Justin Schultz, Keith Aulie, Martin Marincin, Brandon Davidson, etc.
  19. Can we assume a few things there? Sure. Chiarelli acquired Matt Fraser in the Seguin trade and lost him to waivers. He liked him enough to trade for him, that’s a tell.
  20. Anything else? Well, Marincin is a long, tall Slovak, Chiarelli has had success with one, maybe another? That’s a stretch but it’s all in fun.
  21. Final thoughts on Gordon? The back is a worry, the $3M is a lot, but the role he plays is important. The new coach and Chiarelli will decide on roster and the coach will deploy players as he sees fit. If the Oilers run a tough zone-start line moving forward, pay the man.
  22. And now about the song. Yes, it’s about being down and out, and being made a fool of by a woman he loves—takes his money, wrecks his car, then heads out to party with a friend at a crosstown bar. Your basic nightmare, and that’s pretty much Gordon’s role as an Oiler.
  23. Anything we should be aware of about the song? Berry Oakley came up with the bass line and it all wraps around it. Oakley would die in a motorcycle accident in 1972, not far from where Duane Allman had his accident (unusual video here). Duane Allman/Betts guitars and Gregg Allman organ and we’re off. Incredible musicians, the studio version is very good too, but the Fillmore version is probably the quintessential Allmans song.

 

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153 Responses to "RE 14-15 BOYD GORDON: WHIPPING POST"

  1. Lowetide says:

    Lowdown is a shorter show today, we’ll start after the WHC game. Steve Lansky, Paul Almeida and Antony Bent join me, we’ll talk about the game and the events of the week. 10-1260 text @Lowetide twitter, talk soon!

  2. Klima's_Bucket says:

    Another example of the best people coming from Saskatchewan.
    Now if only Mike Babcock comes to Edmonton…

  3. wheatnoil says:

    Klima's_Bucket:
    Another example of the best people coming from Saskatchewan.
    Now if only Mike Babcock comes to Edmonton…

    McLellan is from Melville too!

  4. Ben says:

    Looking forward to the unstoppable Eichel-Arcobello connection.

  5. Klima's_Bucket says:

    wheatnoil: McLellan is from Melville too!

    Bring in Babcock with McLellan and Nelson as his assistants.
    The Holy Trinity of Saskatchewan coaches.

  6. Ducey says:

    Klima’s_Bucket: Bring in Babcock with McLellan and Nelson as his assistants.
    The Holy Trinity of Saskatchewan coaches.

    Careful now, if you restrict your coaches to guys from SASK you might be stuck with Kelly Buchberger.

  7. Pajamah says:

    Ducey,

    He hasn’t already been guaranteed a job? Wow, the Old boys club really is dead.

  8. Woogie63 says:

    2015-16 Lander plays 3C and Drisaital and McConnor play the wing to ease into the league.

    2016-17 Lander outplays Gordon to handle defensive face-offs and Drisaital outplay s Lander to take the 3C position.

    Similar to process with great teams… Positions, play time won on merit.

  9. Hammers says:

    Gordon could be a keeper with Lander and Hendricks on his wings and I would consider resigning him and switching him and Landers positions .if there is a chance to get a top D for Schultz and Klinkhammer or even the 16th pick I would do it . Hell all 3 for the right player . We would then need 1 more D and a goalie . We have same first as last year , Mc, Hall , and Yak , Leon , size and size either from within or Okl or trade. Give up next years 1 St for a goalie if the right one . There are things they can do if they want to take a couple of chances .

  10. Doug McLachlan says:

    wheatnoil: McLellan is from Melville too!

    Any reason why we can’t have both?

    Chia remains POHO and GM.

    Babcock comes in as Associate GM and Head Coach.

    McLellan comes in as Associate Head Coach.

    Babcock is there to institute the “culture change” and turn the Oil into a team that can make the playoffs – still further away than we may like even with McJesus – and then hands the reins over to McLellan for the final assault up Mt. Stanley.

  11. G Money says:

    If you’re a data geek like me, Rob Vollman’s super spreadsheet of NHL player data is a can’t-miss-it resource. The 2014-15 version is now available (apparently missing RelCorsi and QoC until a bit later).

    http://www.hockeyabstract.com/testimonials/nhl2014-15playerdata

  12. Lloyd B. says:

    Doug McLachlan,

    Any reason why we can’t have both?

    No way McLellan plays second banana.

  13. Ben says:

    I swear, if Edmonton gets McDavid, Chiarelli, Babcock and Notley I’m moving back there immediately.

  14. stephen sheps says:

    Duchene in the middle with Hall and Eberle. Not bad. Not bad at all.

  15. leadfarmer says:

    Gordon looks at Campbells 40% OZ start and Bergeron’s 43% OZ starts, and laughs and laughs. Compared to those guys Gordon starts each shift out of the parking lot.

  16. Surgeons Knot says:

    In case the excitement is wearing thin for anyone, just youtube draft lottery reactions 2015. There are some beauties. My wife recorded me reacting to the Oilers win without my knowledge…One of the greatest days of my life.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVJSCGJ4_LU

  17. Pajamah says:

    Ben:
    I swear, if Edmonton gets McDavid, Chiarelli, Babcock and Notley I’m moving back there immediately.

    Babcock and Notley seem like shoe-ins at this point.

    Im certainly not liberal, but Orangemonton doesn’t have the same ring to it.

    Edit: Maybe old WHA Orange Oiler jerseys to celebrate?

  18. G Money says:

    Pajamah: Orangemonton

    OrangeforMcDavidmonton?

  19. russ99 says:

    Like Boston, and the Pacific teams we need to beat out for a playoff spot, we also need two tough zonestart centers.

    Gordon and his linemates would be vastly more effective if three other guys can also handle some of the heavy lifting, plus it would be easier to promote some of those grindy AHL players with some offense if they don’t have to be facing tough sledding nearly every shift.

    The reality of today’s NHL and the competition we need to beat means three scoring lines has to go if we want to see the postseason.

  20. Stelio Kontos says:

    Ben,

    One of these things is not like the others. Notley probably stuggles getting seats, despite the poll numbers as she is concentrated in Edmonton. If theres a minority gov. she will whine and form a coalition and probably cause another election. She’s very critical without really offering a plan besides taking more tax money during an economic collapse, and her spending on social programs as opposed to big business will make it hard to come out. She was very critical of the coal plan, then when Prentice pressed, she admitted that they hadn’t looked at it. I don’t know how she is going to tax companies more, and develop more in province refineries considering the startup costs. Plus she doesn’t know math.

    Would hate to see prentice still in charge too. This is not a good election, and honestly I don’t know why we are even having it right now. Only guess I have is conservatives were afraid of wild rose after their tax hike, and wanted to strike while they were in disarray. Not to mention Wildrose basically just mentioned taxes at the debate, but they don’t have a terrible platform online. I am worried about what they will cut, and they never really offered a solid idea. I have no allegiance, it’s a bad year to vote, especially for the conservatives among us.

  21. Pajamah says:

    G Money: OrangeforMcDavidmonton?

    Well, the city is ditching “City of Champions” on all of their signs.

    Its OrangeforMcDavidmonton, or “WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT” as far as I am concerned.

  22. Ben says:

    The Edmonton Oilers have two tiers of general managers…

  23. Ben says:

    Stelio Kontos: …spending on social programs as opposed to big business…

    oh the horror

  24. Ducey says:

    Pajamah: Babcock and Notley seem like shoe-ins at this point.

    I don’t think you know what “shoe-ins” means.

    No way that Notley is Premier.

    And every team with a coaching issue/ vacancy will be chasing Babcock. I expect he will drive a very hard bargain. He apparently wants somewhere in the neighbourhood of $40 million over 6 years and a fair amount of control over player personnel decisions.

    The $ will scare off a bunch of teams, but the player personnel issue could be a back breaker. If Chia doesn’t want Lowe/ MacT/ Nicholson telling him what to do, why would he want to give that power to Babcock?

    Is he even any good at the player personnel stuff? He apparently demanded Weiss http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mike-Augello/Big-Bucks-For-Babcock-Too-Steep-A-Price-To-Pay-Second-Round-Predictions/120/68343. That has not worked out too well.

    Would I like Babcock? Sure. But there are two big hurdles ($ and control). He will likely demand an unprecedented level of control and I can’t see a lot of GM’s wanting to give it to him.

  25. Ducey says:

    Ben: oh the horror

    Lets not go there…

  26. Ben says:

    Ducey: Lets not go there…

    You’re probably right – but my morbid curiosity about DSF’s perspective on all of this is burning me up…

  27. RexLibris says:

    Watching the Flames game last night and I considered opening up a 6 pack but figured I’d wake up with 1 hell of a hangover.

    I can think of half a dozen reasons I’m glad to be an Oilers fan today.

    If Hudler is injured, who takes his place in their top six?

    Anyone think this series goes to six games?

    If everything goes according to plan with the McDavid and Chiarelli additions, remind me again, what will the provincial Stanley Cup score be should the Oilers get another championship?

    ——

    Heh, this is pretty fun.

  28. RexLibris says:

    Great article about Chiarelli and MacTavish.

    “I am not a scorched earth guy,” he said.

    Says he’ll keep MacTavish as no. 2 in all aspects and he likes strong leadership with strong opinions.

    I like that approach. Chiarelli isn’t in a position where he’ll be overruled, but he’ll hear what MacTavish has to say and I think there is value in that. Now the boss is telling MacTavish “are you sure you would want to do that?”

    We’re witnessing the Apprenticeship of Craig McKravitz.

    I like what MacTavish did in the scouting and I think he has value there. He was instrumental in bringing in Schultz, Arcobello, Miller and put in a good showing for Dekeyser. He can do some things well and he needs to be employed to those strengths.

    Also, the scorched earth comment should help alleviate any fears of Chiarelli removing Bill Scott, Bob Green, and most of the young core. All good news.

    Plus this line at the end about re-joining the brotherhood of GMs:

    “And I’ve had a few of them already trying to pick my pocket. It’s good to be back in the saddle.”

  29. khildahl says:

    RexLibris,

    *slow clap*

  30. Rational Zealot says:

    Stelio Kontos,

    We are having an election now instead of next year because Prentice thinks the economy is going to be worse next year then it is now. I think he’s right about that.

    So his best chance to win is right now. The backlash would be even bigger a year from now.

    So if the NDP wins and the economy tanks, remember that the one didn’t cause the other. The economy is going to tank no matter who is in charge. Governments in general, and provincial governments in particular, don’t have much control over what happens in an economy. The kind of tax increases Notley is talking about is irrelevant compared to a collapse in commodity prices.

    I

  31. kinger_OIL says:

    Ducey: Great news!

    This is exactly what I said I’d do if I was MacT and wanted a 20 year career as an executive in the NHL: work for the team that is likely going to be good for a long time, and have some of that success rub off. That’s a lot easier than looking for a job as the disposed of GM of a team that failed miserably for two years. You just hope he isn’t a thorn in the side of Chiarelli. It must of been a condition of him accepting the job: keep MacT. I wouldn’t want him around if I was the new GM.

    There were some comments about MacT and his pride preventing him from staying. From one of my favorite movies: That’s pride f%cking with you. F$ck pride. Pride only hurts. It never helps. You fight through that sh$t”. MacT is Butch, but in this case he actually listened to Marcellus (Katz and/or Lowe presumably)

  32. Yeti says:

    RexLibris,

    I can’t agree Rex. I liked the idea of MacTavish as GM. The reality wasn’t so great. But more to the point, this whole Oiler way of firing people without firing people is poor management. A number of months ago I compared the Oil under Katz to a family firm wherein poorly performing family members are simply shunted around positions, creating bureaucratic deadweight composed of people who have to be listened to despite their poor records. Why can’t we just clean house and start over? What in last nine years of painful mismanagement gives any reason to find ways to find jobs for these people? If there was ever an organisation that needed a new start this is it. But apparently we can’t quite have that because the buddies of the owner need jobs.

    This is not good. No way.

  33. Ducey says:

    Rational Zealot:
    Stelio Kontos,

    We are having an election now instead of next year because Prentice thinks the economy is going to be worse next year then it is now.I think he’s right about that.

    So his best chance to win is right now.The backlash would be even bigger a year from now.

    So if the NDP wins and the economy tanks, remember that the one didn’t cause the other.The economy is going to tank no matter who is in charge.Governments in general, and provincial governments in particular, don’t have much control over what happens in an economy.The kind of tax increases Notley is talking about is irrelevant compared to a collapse in commodity prices.

    I

    I’d love to argue with you but discussions about politics or religion never turn out well. Take it elsewhere.

  34. Stelio Kontos says:

    Ben,

    You don’t get out of a recession without running a deficit to create jobs.

  35. Ducey says:

    kinger_OIL: This is exactly what I said I’d do if I was MacT and wanted a 20 year career as an executive in the NHL: work for the team that is likely going to be good for a long time, and have some of that success rub off.That’s a lot easier than looking for a job as the disposed of GM of a team that failed miserably for two years. You just hope he isn’t a thorn in the side of Chiarelli.It must of been a condition of him accepting the job: keep MacT. I wouldn’t want him around if I was the new GM.

    I doubt there were any conditions. Chia was in the driver’s seat.

    Why would you not want MacT? He is a smart guy, and dedicated the organization. He has two years worth of discussions with other GM’s. He has a good knowledge of what has gone on here for 2 years. It would shorten up Chia’s learning curve significantly.

    In fact, you have to think MacT and Chia can compare notes on discussions they had with other GM’s, agents, free agents, etc. That would likely yield a fair amount of valuable information.

  36. Dashingsilverfox says:

    Yeti:
    RexLibris,

    I can’t agree Rex. I liked the idea of MacTavish as GM. The reality wasn’t so great. But more to this point, this whole Oiler way of firing people without firing people is poor management. A number of months ago I compared the Oil under Katz to a family firm wherein poorly performing family members are simply shunted around positions, creating bureaucratic deadweight composed of people who have to be listened to despite their poor records. Why can’t we just clean house and start over? What in last nine years of painful mismanagement gives any reason to find ways to find jobs for these people? If there was ever an organisation that needed a new start this is it. But apparently we can’t quite have that because the buddies of the owner need jobs.

    This is not good. No way.

    I would think the convoluted power structure with Chiarelli, MacT, Howson and Scott should be enough to convince Babcock to turn away from the Oilers.

    If, as is reported, he wants a significant voice in player personnel decisions, his voice would be drowned in a cacophony of conflicting messages In Edmonton.

    MacT and Howson should have been shown the door the day Chiarelli was hired.

    It appears Katz just can’t change his ways.

  37. Stelio Kontos says:

    Rational Zealot,

    I agree, but the NDP are the worst choice to try and pull out of the collapse early. We are on the way down anyway you look at it, but the question is how long will we stay there. Higher taxes are going to be a killer to the economy with oil as low as it is, especially if you heavily tax the oil companies. Larger layoffs, more shutdowns, less production. Not a good thing to do to your biggest industry. I like the idea of getting off the oil roller coaster, but that doesn’t happen overnight. We are still very much dependent on oil right now. Prentice doesn’t have a bad plan for that, but he’s just such an arrogant dink.

  38. Ben says:

    Stelio Kontos,

    Uh, yeah – exactly: direct spending on public infrastructures and social programs can help to mitigate slower economic growth. Cutting (or maintaining extremely low) corporate tax rates and cushioning top income earners, hoping that they’ll create magical trickle-down benefits through new jobs? Not so much.

    Anyhow – I was making a ‘joke’ about the influx of talent to the city and team’s leadership. Don’t get your hackles up 🙂

  39. fifthcartel says:

    I don’t really like MacT staying on, kind of a weird situation. Would have just been better if they gave him some random scouting job instead of him being “Chiarelli’s #2”.

  40. Магия 10 says:

    RexLibris: “I am not a scorched earth guy,” he said.

    Yeah. More a pocket howitzer kind of guy who will wait until July 1 to swap out a few folks at Kingsway. Don’t worry Scott. It’s business as usual. Bang.

  41. Stelio Kontos says:

    Ben,

    Sorry I’m done, but I’ll just leave it at this. Alberta without oil right now is a very scary thing, and the oil companies are extremely sensitive right now.

  42. Ben says:

    Stelio Kontos:
    Ben,

    Sorry I’m done, but I’ll just leave it at this. Alberta without oil right now is a very scary thing, and the oil companies are extremely sensitive right now.

    BOO! 🙂

    (If one of the parties can promise to control global commodity prices, I’ll vote for them.)

    Maybe Notley wins and asks Prentice to stay around as her #2…?

  43. barry.moore23 says:

    MacT and Howson should have been shown the door the day Chiarelli was hired.

    It appears Katz just can’t change his ways.

    ^^^^^ This. MacT can learn his stuff somewhere else. Why would Nicholson not send these two packing ?? OK. All good. Just seems kinda’ weird …….

  44. leadfarmer says:

    MacT has been #2 for a long time.

    I don’t get Katz inability to get rid of incompetence, but I have seen owners before that were that loyal to their managers that instead of canning them and bringing in new people they create new jobs for them.

  45. Магия 10 says:

    barry.moore23:
    MacT and Howson should have been shown the door the day Chiarelli was hired.

    It appears Katz just can’t change his ways.

    ^^^^^ This. MacT can learn his stuff somewhere else. Why would Nicholson not send these two packing ?? OK. All good. Just seems kinda’ weird …….

    He needs MacT as his #2. Who else has Howson on Skype dial?

    More seriously why would Katz do ChiaPet’s job? And why would the adult in charge change his MO to shoot first and ask questions later?

    MacT’s job was removed, so he did need to make a call there and they claimed it was Chia’s call.

    “One of the first things I have to do is find out what the landscape is….There is an entire staff in limbo in Boston but Chiarelli said he isn’t allowed to talk to any of them because they are currently under contract….Asked if any of the changes would come prior to the June draft or July 1 free agency, Chiarelli that would be highly unlikely.

  46. Gally says:

    Ducey:

    In fact, you have to think MacT and Chia can compare notes on discussions they had with other GM’s, agents, free agents, etc.That would likely yield a fair amount of valuable information.

    I see that going something like this:
    Pete: What are your thoughts?
    MacT: if we can’t sign Schultz for $7m, let’s trade him for Subban.
    Pete: oh?
    MacT: yeah, he’s got Norris written all over him. Look at his points! We have to lock that down.
    Pete: I see. So why did you trade Petry?
    MacT: lolz, that guy sucks. Can you believe what Montreal gave me for him? I was happy to get a seventh. French people, amiright?

    And scene

  47. Магия 10 says:

    Craig MacTavish @FakeOilersGM · 1h 1 hour ago
    I’m the new and improved Scott Howson!

    By holding back on a title for his #2, PC left the other titles untouched, which is the right move if he’s holding some of his cards until after July 1. Not publishing a title is a tell that Kingsway is not a safe place to work yet.

  48. RMGS says:

    Ducey: Great news!

    The only way this can be positive is if Chia is keeping him on as his “foil,” as his “opposite George.”

    Chia: “How do we rebuild our D?”

    MacT: “Give Niki another 3 years and motivate Justin to his Norris potential with a 5 year deal!”

    Chia: “Thanks, MacT. Ok, let’s buy out Niki and see if anyone will trade for Justin.”

  49. kinger_OIL says:

    Магия 10:
    Craig MacTavish @FakeOilersGM·1h 1 hour ago
    I’m the new and improved Scott Howson!

    By holding back on a title for his #2, PC left the other titles untouched, which is the right move if he’s holding his cards until after July 1.

    Is there a team that has a heavier upper-management in NHL now? While I endorse Chiarelli, it seems very convoluted.

  50. Магия 10 says:

    kinger_OIL: Is there a team that has a heavier upper-management in NHL now?While I endorse Chiarelli, it seems very convoluted.

    If he’s removing all but MacT he still needs to wait until July 1 for most of his staff.
    If he’s removing some and not others Nicholson would be really making the call if he did not evaluate himself for a while.
    No sense giving MacT a title until he decides who stays who goes and who comes in.

    Hey. Mac-T can relate to fans now. PC just called him tier 2. (h/t @fakeoilersgm)

  51. Rational Zealot says:

    While it’s true that this wouldn’t happen with any other team in the NHL, I think that’s a good thing. Whatever mistakes MacT made in his 2 years or so in charge (and I personally think there were fewer than is commonly accepted) what this shows is that he, and Lowe, are really committed to the team and to the city. They don’t want to work for just any team. They want to work for this team.

    In today’s day and age of mercenary players and mercenary executives, I find that refreshing.

  52. hunter1909 says:

    Dashingsilverfox: MacT and Howson should have been shown the door the day Chiarelli was hired.

    That’s not Katz’s style; ever, anyway Chiarelli doesn’t have to listen to a lackey. Ever.

    I wouldn’t worry about Lowe flashing his 25 year old rings either. Babcock/Chiarelli might find it hilariously funny – further eroding the Lowe/MacT big boss respect level, right when the Coffeys and Kurri’s will be showing up to watch Babcock’s 2nd Oilers Dynasty.

  53. Магия 10 says:

    Rational Zealot: While it’s true that this wouldn’t happen with any other team in the NHL

    Doubt that. Many do and teams that won’t re-purpose the Peter Principled are the teams that don’t end up with the need to make that call.

  54. kinger_OIL says:

    Rational Zealot:
    While it’s true that this wouldn’t happen with any other team in the NHL, I think that’s a good thing.Whatever mistakes MacT made in his 2 years or so in charge (and I personally think there were fewer than is commonly accepted) what this shows is that he, and Lowe, are really committed to the team and to the city.They don’t want to work for just any team.They want to work for this team.

    In today’s day and age of mercenary players and mercenary executives, I find that refreshing.

    That’s very charitable – You forgot the part that neither Lowe or MacT are employable by any other team in the NHL at their current levels or salaries, based on their track-records

  55. Marc says:

    From Dreger:

    “Presuming the Boston Bruins cut Claude Julien loose, his former boss Peter Chiarelli will have interest in rekindling their relationship. Todd McLellan, currently occupied on Team Canada’s bench at the World Championship will be a strong contender and the Oilers remain willing to keep Todd Nelson in contention as well. It’s been suggested there is at least one more candidate drawing the Oilers interest, though Ken Hitchcock, Paul Maclean and Randy Carlyle are not believed to be in the mix.”

    Nice to know that Carlyle and Hitchcock aren’t in the picture.

  56. hunter1909 says:

    Rational Zealot:
    While it’s true that this wouldn’t happen with any other team in the NHL, I think that’s a good thing.Whatever mistakes MacT made in his 2 years or so in charge (and I personally think there were fewer than is commonly accepted) what this shows is that he, and Lowe, are really committed to the team and to the city.They don’t want to work for just any team.They want to work for this team.

    In today’s day and age of mercenary players and mercenary executives, I find that refreshing.

    You work for the Oilers, right? Intern?

  57. Dashingsilverfox says:

    Rational Zealot:
    While it’s true that this wouldn’t happen with any other team in the NHL, I think that’s a good thing.Whatever mistakes MacT made in his 2 years or so in charge (and I personally think there were fewer than is commonly accepted) what this shows is that he, and Lowe, are really committed to the team and to the city.They don’t want to work for just any team.They want to work for this team.

    In today’s day and age of mercenary players and mercenary executives, I find that refreshing.

    I want to work for the team too…doesn’t make it a good idea.

  58. hunter1909 says:

    Like 1960’s “narcs” trying to fit in wearing white socks and Aqua Velva aftershave around Haight Ashbury, it’s only a matter of time before Rexall Place trolls start attempting to boost the MacT/Lowe “legacy”.

  59. Marc says:

    RexLibris:
    Watching the Flames game last night and I considered opening up a 6 pack but figured I’d wake up with 1 hell of a hangover.

    I can think of half a dozen reasons I’m glad to be an Oilers fan today.

    If Hudler is injured, who takes his place in their top six?

    Anyone think this series goes to six games?

    If everything goes according to plan with the McDavid and Chiarelli additions, remind me again, what will the provincial Stanley Cup score be should the Oilers get another championship?

    ——

    Heh, this is pretty fun.

    The best case scenario for the Flames has to be them getting beaten and battered by the Ducks, causing Burke to decide that what they really need to be a contender is more size and veteran leadership, right?

    Truly the hockey gords would be spoiling us….

  60. Gally says:

    I know we all have the goggles on, but if the reports are true, and Lowe was instrumental in bringing Chiarelli in, what did the audit actually accomplish? Lowe moved over and brought in his own replacement, everyone else got shuffled around, and nobody got let go. Sure, let Chiarelli find his bearings and all that, but wasn’t the point of Nicholson’s audit to find out the weak spots and cut away the cancer? Why bother with that if a) you’re not gonna get rid of anyone on the hockey side, and b) after the several month audit, you hire one guy and give him a year or whatever to audit personnel when he should be busy auditing the hockey team? It’s like, Craig, you sucked and you took your length of rope and hung yourself with it, so what are your opinions on the guys you hired underneath you?

  61. russ99 says:

    Who else accepts a demotion under the guy hired to replace him? This is all kinds of dumb.

    To me this is same old same old, like keeping the assistants when Eakins was hired, and I can’t see how a new president/GM would go for this without urging from above, despite the quotes trumpeted out – unless is’s a smokescreen to not telegraph who they want until after the playoffs.

    Way to kill any buzz from Chiarelli’s hiring.

  62. Магия 10 says:

    Marc: . It’s been suggested there is at least one more candidate drawing the Oilers interest,

    probably ralph. but he’s not answering their skype calls anymore.

  63. Магия 10 says:

    russ99:
    Who else accepts a demotion under the guy hired to replace him? This is all kinds of dumb.

    To me this is same old same old, like keeping the assistants when Eakins was hired, and I can’t see how a new president/GM would go for this without urging from above, despite the quotes trumpeted out – unless is’s a smokescreen to not telegraph who they want until after the playoffs.

    Way to kill any buzz from Chiarelli’s hiring.

    If lowe and mact on the premises is a deal breaker they killed your buzz completely the minute they announced pc.

  64. rickithebear says:

    Complaining about MacT without showing your own personal audit!
    Is just the old girls whinny bitch club.

    Quit being whiny sheep bitches.:

    Show us your reasoning for not wanting Mact.

    Say no to whinny sheepy bitches!

  65. Dashingsilverfox says:

    rickithebear:
    Complaining about MacT without showing your own personal audit!
    Is just the old girls whinny bitch club.

    Quit being whiny sheep bitches.:

    Show us your reasoning for not wanting Mact.

    Say no to whinny sheepy bitches!

    It’s not just MacT but Lowe AND MacT.

    Let’s review:

    Ryan Smyth

    Khabibulin

    Kyle Brodziak

    Curtis Glencross

    Dany Heatley

    William Nylander

    Marian Hossa

    Sheldon Souray

    Ryan Whitney

    Patrick O’ Sullivan

    Andrew Cogliano

    Eric Belanger

    Ben Eager

    Cam Barker

    Colton Teubert

    Anton Belov

    David Clarkson

    Andrew Ference

    Nikita Nikitin

    Scrivens/Fasth

    Teddy Purcell

    That’s just a list of very bad bets and doesn’t even touch on the mediocre draft results and poor development seasons under the Lowe/MacT cabal.

    As MacT was wont to say…it’s a debacle.

  66. Ducey says:

    kinger_OIL: Is there a team that has a heavier upper-management in NHL now?While I endorse Chiarelli, it seems very convoluted.

    Try doing some research.

    Look at the Canucks:
    http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=39578

    Calgary has King, Burke, Treliving, Conroy, and Pascall.

    Chicago http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47745

    The Rangers: http://rangers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=54019

    I could go on. Having Nicholson, Chia, MacT, and maybe Howson/ Scott won’t be unusual.

  67. Ducey says:

    Dashingsilverfox: I want to work for the team too…doesn’t make it a good idea.

    I finally agree with you!

  68. Dashingsilverfox says:

    Ducey: Try doing some research.

    Look at the Canucks:
    http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=39578

    Calgary has King, Burke, Treliving, Conroy, and Pascall.

    Chicago http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47745

    The Rangers: http://rangers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=54019

    I could go on.Having Nicholson, Chia, MacT, and maybe Howson/ Scott won’t be unusual.

    If you look at things that way you have to add Rick Carriere, Billy Moores, Bob Green and Kelly Buchberger to the pile.

  69. Ducey says:

    Dashingsilverfox: If you look at things that way you have to add Rick Carriere, Billy Moores, Bob Green and Kelly Buchberger to the pile.

    Are you not literate, or is it just that you read only what you want to read?

  70. Alpine says:

    I’m fine with both remaining in the org. Lowe’s out of hockey ops, MacTavish is out of power. He’s probably going to be no more than an advisor, which is the management role he should have had all along.

    The Kings have Luc Robitaille in a similar role to Kevin Lowe, for example. Detroit has the likes of Chelios and Draper in similar roles to MacTavish. MacT has had a lot more valuable non-playing experience prior to his first management role. Yzerman runs a good org in TB and one of his right hand men is Pat Verbeek.

    We’re not the only team that does this sort of thing. Maybe we shouldn’t be overreacting.

  71. Dashingsilverfox says:

    Ducey: Are you not literate, or is it just that you read only what you want to read?

    Yeah, I tend not to read what I don’t want to read.

    But that hardly prevents me from seeing the flaws in your argument.

  72. Richard S.S. says:

    Hello everyone, very, very long time reader and my first response.
    Craig MacTavish is under contract for the next year or more. Whether he’s on the Team , or off the Team, he’s still getting paid. Perhaps other are in that position on this Team. Problems will arise with wasted money, especially with possible Player Buyout(s) added in. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and find value with the unwanted/unneeded/unnecessary if you can. Craig MacTavish is still of value, his authority will be limited, and the pressure of decisions will be greatly reduced. He loves this Team and has strong opinions and that has value. Others may not be so lucky and money will unavoidably be wasted. That’s fine, what must be done will get done…….eventually.

    Have a good weekend everyone.

  73. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    Groupthink was a part of what undid Chia in Boston.
    I can understand the need to keep the lights on and pass the baton through the draft, but after that I’d prefer it if they cleaned house.

    Has anyone asked them where Howson stands?
    Nicholson-Chia-Green-Babcock after July 1 should be more than sufficient.

    I need a GPS system, a compass, a sextant, a topographic map and an ephemeris to figure out where everyone stands in the organization now. Avoid groupthink that includes the old guard. Make it easy for Babcock or McLellan to come here. Right now it seems too convoluted.

  74. Alpine says:

    Dashingsilverfox,

    Most of these were Lowe and Tambellini. Tambo’s gone. Lowe is out of hockey ops. He’s a glorified public ambassador now.

  75. RexLibris says:

    Marc: The best case scenario for the Flames has to be them getting beaten and battered by the Ducks, causing Burke to decide that what they really need to be a contender is more size and veteran leadership, right?

    Truly the hockey gords would be spoiling us….

    I’d joked that perhaps Burke will try to trade up at the draft to get Lawson Crouse because of his size and the connection with Sam Bennett, but the Anaheim series could also skew things in that direction as well.

    They have some muscle in their prospect system in Hunter Smith and Keegan Kanzig, though neither looks like a top-rotation player at their position.

    Maybe they move the 1st round pick and a couple of 2nd rounders to go from 15th to 8th to take the big winger?

    I’d recommend they trade up to get one of the blueliners, but Burke likes size and truculence so Crouse is always a possibility.

  76. kinger_OIL says:

    Ducey: Try doing some research.

    Look at the Canucks:
    http://canucks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=39578

    Calgary has King, Burke, Treliving, Conroy, and Pascall.

    Chicago http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=47745

    The Rangers: http://rangers.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=54019

    I could go on.Having Nicholson, Chia, MacT, and maybe Howson/ Scott won’t be unusual.

    Huh? Did you read those org charts that you posted up? I don’t see any that have 4 hockey executives that all were NHL GM’s, reporting to the POHO – that’s the point: its a big management beast they have created, and that’s what is convoluted I agree with some of the other posters: I guess we can wait untill after July 1, and hope they get culled. None of those other teams have so many hockey guys, all of who who are used to calling the shots in organizations. Its my experience in the business world that you can’t function properly with so many people in management who are all used to running the show.

  77. Dashingsilverfox says:

    Alpine:
    Dashingsilverfox,

    Most of these were Lowe and Tambellini. Tambo’s gone. Lowe is out of hockey ops. He’s a glorified public ambassador now.

    I think it’s naive to suggest MacT had no influence on those decisions.

  78. RexLibris says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”:
    Groupthink was a part of what undid Chia in Boston.
    I can understand the need to keep the lights on and pass the baton through the draft, but after that I’d prefer it if they cleaned house.

    Has anyone asked them where Howson stands?
    Nicholson-Chia-Green-Babcock after July 1 should be more than sufficient.

    I need a GPS system, a compass, a sextant, a topographic map and an ephemeris to figure out where everyone stands in the organization now. Avoid groupthink that includes the old guard. Make it easy for Babcock or McLellan to come here. Right now it seems too convoluted.

    As much as Nicholson has spearheaded this transformation, I don’t really count him as being in the Hockey Ops picture.

    With that being said, here’s what I see this rounding out as:

    Chiarelli – PoHO, GM
    MacTavish – AGM + Special Assignments (presumably)
    Bill Scott – AGM
    Bob Green – Director of Player Personnel
    Rick Carriere – Billy Moores – Sr. Directors of Development, Player and Coaching, respectively
    Stu MacGregor – Head Amateur Scout

    I think Howson and Buchberger go and the coach brings in all his own people with the one exception being perhaps Dustin Scwhartz and maybe Todd Nelson.

    MacTavish probably works off a list he and Chiarelli have formed together to help direct Bob Green’s focus. Bill Scott mentors under Chiarelli and continues to operate the AHL team.

    Guys like Serdachny and Pelletier probably stick around.

    Dellow, we have no idea and is highly dependent on which coach is brought in.

    So looking at that top list, I don’t think that is all that heavy in terms of management given that the responsibilities aren’t all that redundant.

    Provided everybody knows what they are supposed to do, it can work because I think that list actually plays to their respective strengths. With Chiarelli now having the President and GM duties, he can ask for feedback on roster decisions, but ultimately make the call himself. If someone offers him a dissenting opinion to what he eventually does, so be it. They’ve been heard but the decision went the other way. This happens all the time in management teams and you move on.

  79. anonymous says:

    Seems funny you’d hire a new manager and have him decide what to do with the old one.

  80. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    RexLibris,

    If it shakes down like that and the pecking order is clear, that I can live with. There’s just so much chaff still floating around at the moment. Wish they’d clear things up soon. There’s what, 3 AGMs at the moment including MacT?

  81. Dashingsilverfox says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”:
    RexLibris,

    If it shakes down like that and the pecking order is clear, that I can live with. There’s just so much chaff still floating around at the moment. Wish they’d clear things up soon. There’s what, 3 AGMs at the moment including MacT?

    Don’t forget that Mark Messier is under the pile somewhere…although I have no idea what he actually does.

  82. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    kinger_OIL: Its my experience in the business world that you can’t function properly with so many people in management who are all used to running the show.

    Mine, too. Can’t have too many guys used to calling the shots around.
    It may work for Team Canada on a short term basis, it didn’t work for Team USA as we saw in that tell-tale ESPN piece. It won’t work for a hockey club.

    This is the organization that brought in a coach and told him what assistants to keep because they wanted to groom certain guys.

    Now the organization brings in a GM and keeps the old GM and the AGMs as assistants?

    Do I detect a pattern?

    I want Chiarelli to unequivocally make clear it’s 1) 100% his decision, 2) MacT and so and so are exactly who he wants as his lieutenants (even if that’s a lie and he wants some other guys later on).

    Otherwise that stink of the Oiler way of only half-assed measures simply will not go away for me.To paraphrase Sam Abell: Is it better than before? Yes. Is it as good as it can be? No.

  83. Dashingsilverfox says:

    It doesn’t make sense to hire smart people and tell them what to do…we hire smart people to tell us what to do. – Steve Jobs

  84. Pouzar says:

    Dashingsilverfox: I want to work for the team too…doesn’t make it a good idea.

    I’ll take “Understatements of the Century” for $1000 Alex.

  85. Alpine says:

    Dashingsilverfox,

    A lot of them were post Mac-T Quinn/Renney era decisions. What coach would turn down veteran scorers like Hossa and Nylander? Do you really think he wanted his top forward in Ryan Smyth not signed and then traded? That little debacle was penny-pinching on Lowe’s part.

    I”l give you Clarkson and Nikitin/Ference, the latter two of which are hardly franchise altering moves. Belov was a cheap experiment. Scrivens/Fasth were okay bets that didn’t work out, but only really affected the short term. Purcell was a cap dump and is a FA in a year.

  86. Dashingsilverfox says:

    Alpine:
    Dashingsilverfox,

    A lot of them were post Mac-T Quinn/Renney era decisions. What coach would turn down veteran scorers like Hossa and Nylander? Do you really think he wanted his top forward in Ryan Smyth not signed and then traded? That little debacle was penny-pinching on Lowe’s part.

    I”l give you Clarkson and Nikitin/Ference, the latter two of which are hardly franchise altering moves. Belov was a cheap experiment. Scrivens/Fasth were okay bets that didn’t work out, but only really affected the short term. Purcell was a cap dump and is a FA in a year.

    Lowe and MacT have always thought alike in my opinion.

    And then, of course, there was the biggest debacle of their administration…Dallas Eakins.

  87. Klima's_Bucket says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”: I need a GPS system, a compass, a sextant, a topographic map and an ephemeris to figure out where everyone stands in the organization now.

    I got an Abacus you could borrow?

  88. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    Alpine,

    Maybe a way of looking at it is this:
    MacT turned over most of the roster post Tambellini. He added a couple of full value but not necessarily great value contracts with Pouliot and Gordon. He also added dead weight boat anchors like Nikitin. Overall let’s call that a wash. His goaltending bets didn’t work out, he traded away his best current D man. And the team regressed to one of its worst point finishes ever.

    Whatever you want to say about all the smaller moves he made, and say he was so much better than Tambo because he was more active, well at some point we must consider the bottom line, and that’s that the team got worse under MacT and that wasn’t his intention. How many “we are close ” comments did we hear in September? The goal was to improve, not to win McDavid and in that, MacT’s record speaks for itself. The man is very lucky he has a job today. So, good for him. I hope he learns and makes the best of it, because it seems he is sticking around.

  89. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    Klima’s_Bucket: I got an Abacus you could borrow?

    Yeah, may need that. Only have ten fingers.

  90. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    Dashingsilverfox: Lowe and MacT have always thought alike in my opinion.

    While I agree with most of what you have said here today, I’m not so sure on this point. MacT has often alluded to butting heads with Lowe, not seeing eye to eye and the tension between them. And then Lowe winds up being very active recruiting Chiarelli to replace Mac, according to Friedman. I don’t think they really think alike.

    Also, despite his flawed whale hunting and occasionally vindictive ways (Comrie, Smyth) Lowe was capable of finding a competent defenseman in the dark. MacT, not so much. MacT: fatal flaw: Smartest man in the room syndrome. Lowe: fatal flaw: arrogance and vindictiveness. I say this with respect for their career accomplishments in the game and their passion for the Oilers. They care. They just weren’t cut out for these jobs anymore.

  91. spoiler says:

    Ben: Uh, yeah – exactly: direct spending on public infrastructures and social programs can help to mitigate slower economic growth. Cutting (or maintaining extremely low) corporate tax rates and cushioning top income earners, hoping that they’ll create magical trickle-down benefits through new jobs? Not so much.

    Ben,

    You need to put on a pair of steel-toed boots, find the person who told you these lies, and kick them in the shins really hard.

    Unless it was a male… in which case, kick them in the ballsack.

    Really, you would be doing them, and the world, a favour.
    🙂

  92. Ben says:

    spoiler: Ben,

    You need to put on a pair of steel-toed boots, find the person who told you these lies, and kick them in the shins really hard.

    Unless it was a male… in which case, kick them in the ballsack.

    Really, you would be doing them, and the world, a favour.

    Ah, Alberta. Like Milton Friedman in ass-less chaps. Still kind of miss you, stubborn ideological delusions aside. 🙂

  93. G Money says:

    Ben,

    I believe the correct referent would be Hayek in ass-less chaps. Friedman a bit of a newcomer to the gig.

  94. spoiler says:

    I was trying to figure out the command structure in Star Trek terms…

    If Chiarelli is Jean-Luc, what does that make MacT… Riker?

    That doesn’t make sense to me. Wouldn’t the Coach be Riker? The XO.

    And MacT’s role will be more advisory…

    I can’t see him as Data, as Data is in the linear command structure. MC79 can be Data.

    Which makes MacT Counsellor Deanna Troi. How the hell she ever passed her Bridge Officer’s exam, I’ll never know.

    Still that pretty much means very few away missions.

    If Howson stays, he’s Wesley. But opposite Wesley… without the ridiculous savior aspects.

    I have no idea why I am thinking about this (no sleep).

  95. Heinz 57 says:

    Dashingsilverfox:
    I would think the convoluted power structure with Chiarelli, MacT, Howson and Scott should be enough to convince Babcock to turn away from the Oilers.

    Chamberlain: I would think the convoluted power structure with Hitler, Goering, Goebbels, Himmler, and Speer should be enough to convince Mussolini to turn away from the Germans.

    True story.

    Or might as well have been.

  96. spoiler says:

    G Money:
    Ben,

    I belief the correct referent would be Hayek in ass-less chaps.Friedman a bit of a newcomer to the gig.

    And Friedman was an extension of the Keynesian BS Ben is promulgating. Friedman’s a big reason why the world is in the mess it is.

    Definitely Hayek. Or Mises.

    Hard to beat common sense.

    It’s funny how Austrians get called ideological, when nothing the name-callers have ever done has ever worked. Keynesianism is nothing but ideology.

    Mythical, like a world where chaps aren’t already assless.

  97. G Money says:

    spoiler,

    Wait a second, are you pro- or anti-Austrian??

    I gathered from your first post to Ben you were pro-, but this one is anti.

    I’m confused! (“like every economist in the world, ever!” baddump bump)

  98. spoiler says:

    G Money:
    spoiler,

    Wait a second, are you pro- or anti-Austrian??

    I gathered from your first post to Ben you were pro-, but this one is anti.

    I’m confused!(“like every economist in the world, ever!” baddump bump)

    Oh no… I am pro, but that doesn’t mean I can’t laugh at myself or help the hapless Keynesians with their attempts at jokes.

    Edit: Ahh… now I see the ambiguity. Thanks! Fixed it.

  99. Ben says:

    spoiler: Friedman was an extension of the Keynesian BS

    Durr?

  100. Ducey says:

    kinger_OIL: Huh?Did you read those org charts that you posted up?I don’t see any that have 4 hockey executives that all were NHL GM’s, reporting to the POHO – that’s the point: its a big management beast they have created, and that’s what is convolutedI agree with some of the other posters: I guess we can wait untill after July 1, and hope they get culled.None of those other teams have so many hockey guys, all of who who are used to calling the shots in organizations. Its my experience in the business world that you can’t function properly with so many people in management who are all used to running the show.

    I don’t have time to do your reading for you but Calgary has 5 as I set above.

    Vancouver has at least one Aquilini getting involved, Linden, Benning, Gilman, and Smyl. That’s 4 or 5 depending upon how you want to deal with it.

    The Rangers have the Chairman (who likely does as much or as little as Katz on the hockey side), Sather, Schoenfeld, Gorton, Mike Barnett, and maybe Risebrough (not sure what a Hockey Consultant does).

    For these teams I am not counting the player personnel, scouting, etc.

    The Oilers would have Nicholson, Chia, MacT and maybe (we don’t know yet) Howson and Scott.

    I’m really having trouble understanding what the problem is. These organizations all have lots of brass.

  101. oliveoilers says:

    So, with MacT #2, an he start dressing like Robert Wagner and wear an eye patch?

  102. Pajamah says:

    Ducey: I don’t think you know what “shoe-ins” means.

    No way that Notley is Premier.

    And every team with a coaching issue/ vacancy will be chasing Babcock.I expect he will drive a very hard bargain. He apparently wants somewhere in the neighbourhood of $40 million over 6 years and a fair amount of control over player personnel decisions.

    The $ will scare off a bunch of teams, but the player personnel issue could be a back breaker.If Chia doesn’t want Lowe/ MacT/ Nicholson telling him what to do, why would he want to give that power to Babcock?

    Is he even any good at the player personnel stuff? He apparently demanded Weiss http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Mike-Augello/Big-Bucks-For-Babcock-Too-Steep-A-Price-To-Pay-Second-Round-Predictions/120/68343.That has not worked out too well.

    Would I like Babcock? Sure.But there are two big hurdles ($ and control).He will likely demand an unprecedented level of control and I can’t see a lot of GM’s wanting to give it to him.

    I’d wager Notley more likely to win, as will the entire NDP right now, than Babcock, and I’ll only recind my shoe-in comment based on Babcock’s verbal today.

    And I’m a Wildrose supporter, but I think the conservative party with the most votes gets to play oppostion this time around.

  103. spoiler says:

    I find it a bit strange that Chiarelli’s first plan of action was to go see Draisaitl in Kelowna, Nurse/McJesus in Erie and then Hall and Eberle at the WCs… completely ignoring the largest mass of players in the organization that he doesn’t know, in OKC, who at the time were playing a short series with no guarantee of moving on.

    LT, anyone… do you find this plan a bit strange?

  104. Alpine says:

    spoiler,

    Maybe watching guys who will actually be on the team or competing for it vs. guys who won’t? Not that OKC doesn’t have a couple candidates, but I guess he just wanted to become familiar with his new core. Also draft eligible players in the CHL and trade targets at the WC vs. the odd diamond in the rough among low-end prospects and minor league vets you might catch in an AHL game.

  105. rickithebear says:

    NYCOIL:
    Did MacT trade away Maricin? Klefbom? Fayne?

  106. spoiler says:

    Ben: Durr?

    Oh, I am not saying the two -isms are one and the same and that there are no differences or disagreements. Otherwise they wouldn’t be two separate -isms.

    Merely saying that the latter one likely does not exist without the prior one… even Friedman himself said his ideas used the framework of Keynesian language and constructs. They do share some premises. Conclusions, not so much.

  107. G Money says:

    spoiler,

    I don’t. Realistically, with the exception of Slim Shady and Broissoit, the current OKC roster doesn’t have anyone that can be expected to be an impact player (top 4 D or top 6F or 1G) for the Oilers. We’ll be doing well if that roster delivers one or two NHL-quality bottom pairing defenders and a couple of high quality bottom 6 forwards.

    Hall & Eberle on the other hand ARE the top line forward core right now. (Too bad Nugey and Yak can’t be there).

    McJesus is of course McJesus.

    And Nurse/Drai should be expected to make huge (literally) contributions to the roster within a year.

    So I think Chia’s priorities are right – understand the elite talent first, so you know what you’ve got. Trying to fill the gaps there are where he’s going to earn his keep.

    A savvy GM should be able to fill in the gaps on the bottom half of the roster without too much trouble, so he can do that on his own schedule.

  108. vinotintazo says:

    I’m looking at the NYR’s D, and I’m just here droooling…. lol

    McDonagh – Girardi
    Marc Staal – Dan Boyle
    Yandle – Klain

    Klain’s cap is 2.9 for 3 seasons, and he’s a decent #4, and probably underrated.

    I think he’s a decent Petry replacement. (I like petry but his not comming back, and will sign for 5M, book it!)

    is there any way we can grab him? it will probably take marincin, or Davidson + to get him.

    NYR’s are in cap trouble next season, McDonagh, Girardi and Stall are not going anywhere, some have NTC and the other just signed.

    Yandle is on a value contract with retained salary.

  109. spoiler says:

    G Money: Hall & Eberle on the other hand ARE the top line forward core right now. (Too bad Nugey and Yak can’t be there).

    McJesus is of course McJesus.

    And Nurse/Drai should be expected to make huge (literally) contributions to the roster within a year.

    So I think Chia’s priorities are right – understand the elite talent first, so you know what you’ve got.

    Chiarelli has seen Hall and Ebs play for years. He knows what he has there. Draisaitl, Nurse, McDavid are can’t miss prospects that Chia would have already seen.

    The goulash in OKC though is composed of mostly unknown ingredients, and far more of them. To me the most efficient thing to do would have been to go there first.

    Unless of course, he’s contemplating trading one of the prospects or players he is viewing.

    Edit: As GM, I would want to know my org from top to bottom as quickly as possible and the best way to accomplish that would have been to deal with the unfamiliar and go to OKC.

  110. Woodguy says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”:
    Alpine,

    Maybe a way of looking at it is this:
    MacT turned over most of the roster post Tambellini. He added a couple of full value but not necessarily great value contracts with Pouliot and Gordon. He also added dead weight boat anchors like Nikitin. Overall let’s call that a wash. His goaltending bets didn’t work out, he traded away his best current D man. And the team regressed to one of its worst point finishes ever.

    Whatever you want to say about all the smaller moves he made, and say he was so much better than Tambo because he was more active, well at some point we must consider the bottom line, and that’s that the team got worse under MacT and that wasn’t his intention. How many “we are close ” comments did we hear in September? The goal was to improve, not to win McDavid and in that, MacT’s record speaks for itself. The man is very lucky he has a job today. So, good for him. I hope he learns and makes the best of it, because it seems he is sticking around.

    All this is true.

    It is also why he’s not in charge anymore.

  111. jake70 says:

    Just a copy and past from Yahoo sports: on Babcock

    3. Doesn’t want to be a general manager – so strike down places that want to give him the Patrick Roy-like carte blanche. “I have no skill set to be a general manager. … I’m a coach. … I have no interest in sitting where Kenny sits at all. None.” But he noted in Detroit, he has a lot of input.

    4. Lastly, he said his wife’s decision rules all “Everyone thinks Ken Holland is the boss, actually my wife is the boss.” And also said, “My wife and I are going through a process and Kenny and I are going to go through a process and in 10 days we’ll have a plan and go from there.”

    # 3 looks good for Edmonton, # 4 does not…lol (see Pronger, Chris )

  112. spoiler says:

    jake70: # 3 looks good for Edmonton, # 4 does not…lol (see Pronger, Chris

    That depends if his wife likes fishing and hunting as much as Babs does. Not to mention a couple extra mill a year, lol.

  113. Woodguy says:

    spoiler:
    I find it a bit strange that Chiarelli’s first plan of action was to go see Draisaitl in Kelowna, Nurse/McJesus in Erie and then Hall and Eberle at the WCs… completely ignoring the largest mass of players in the organization that he doesn’t know, in OKC, who at the time were playing a short series with no guarantee of moving on.

    LT, anyone… do you find this plan a bit strange?

    He went to the WC to talk to McLellan not see Hall and Eberle.

  114. G Money says:

    jake70: # 3 looks good for Edmonton, # 4 does not…lol (see Pronger, Chris )

    Depends on where his wife is from.

    If she’s from Edmonton, or even the West like Babcock, the call of family can be pretty strong. That was a huge factor in the Return of Cryin’ Ryan.

    Pronger’s wife was from high society in the Deepish South. Cops in Edmonton probably didn’t shoot enough black people for her liking. (OOOOH. I am over the mark there? I detest the Prongers, both of them, so I think I’ll ignore the little creep on my shoulder telling me I’m over the line and leave that in).

  115. Lowetide says:

    spoiler:
    I find it a bit strange that Chiarelli’s first plan of action was to go see Draisaitl in Kelowna, Nurse/McJesus in Erie and then Hall and Eberle at the WCs… completely ignoring the largest mass of players in the organization that he doesn’t know, in OKC, who at the time were playing a short series with no guarantee of moving on.

    LT, anyone… do you find this plan a bit strange?

    I think it is a tell UNLESS the plan is to visit the Barons when they get back from Europe. There are useful pieces down there, developing pieces, he’ll need to get to know.

  116. G Money says:

    spoiler,

    He’s in the east, so seeing Hall and Ebs play is a couple-times-a-year thing for him. Plus you pay an awful lot less attention to players on the other team than you do your own.

    Ditto Nurse, Drai, and even McJesus. No point spending much time scouting prospects when they aren’t your own (and in Boston’s case, they rarely pick high excepting Seguin, so scouting players in the Top 10 wouldn’t have been much on his agenda anyway).

  117. Woodguy says:

    All,

    Can everyone take their Alberta election opinions to another forum please?

    I know lots of people are comfortable here and want to talk about those thing here, but this isn’t really the place.

    There are lots of forums out there for those discussions.

    This forum is for hockey.

    It’s not my forum, but I too talked politics here before and this is simply not that place.

    Please?

  118. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: He went to the WC to talk to McLellannot see Hall and Eberle.

    Oh, fer sure. And also to alleviate any concerns those two players may have.

    But they’re not going anywhere for awhile. There’s no urgency to get there this weekend. Or to see the junior stars.

  119. spoiler says:

    Woodguy:
    All,

    Can everyone take their Alberta election opinions to another forum please?

    I know lots of people are comfortable here and want to talk about those thing here, but this isn’t really the place.

    There are lots of forums out there for those discussions.

    This forum is for hockey.

    It’s not my forum, but I too talked politics here before and this is simply not that place.

    Please?

    As long as it stays the way it has… pretty civil and a very minor part of this thread, I don’t see anything wrong with it. There is very little partisanship above and certainly no one is doing any actual politicking.

    And it’s not like we tell people to go to the Scotch forums or BBQ forums or Literature forums or Investment forums, or Southern Rock forums.

  120. spoiler says:

    Lowetide: I think it is a tell UNLESS the plan is to visit the Barons when they get back from Europe. There are useful pieces down there, developing pieces, he’ll need to get to know.

    This is my thought too, but when he decided to go to Kelowna, it wasn’t a sure thing he would get a future chance to see OKC. Depending on how long they spend in Prague, timing might still be tight for later, on OKC.

  121. jake70 says:

    G Money: Depends on where his wife is from.

    If she’s from Edmonton, or even the West like Babcock, the call of family can be pretty strong.That was a huge factor in the Return of Cryin’ Ryan.

    Pronger’s wife was from high society in the Deepish South.Cops in Edmonton probably didn’t shoot enough black people for her liking.(OOOOH.I am over the mark there?I detest the Prongers, both of them, so I think I’ll ignore the little creep on my shoulder telling me I’m over the line and leave that in).

    Yeah, not trying to open the Pronger wound, just interesting to hear someone say it directly, “wife is the boss”. And the couple million a year extra would certainly buy a lot of shoes.

  122. kinger_OIL says:

    Ducey,

    Ducey – Chill : the point is the Rangers (or any of the organizations you point to) don’t have 4 ex-NHL GM’s all in management. When you have that many who are used to being the boss, you are going to have a tough time. I’m not criticizing the management structure, I’m questioning whether a structure with 4 who have been GM’s before is effective. But while I am at it: yes NHL teams seem to have many layers of management, for enterprises that do less than a $500mm in revenue, and are worth less than $1billion. The Oilers happen to have the same amount of layers of management and 4 GM’s: back to my original point!

  123. AZOIL says:

    spoiler:
    I find it a bit strange that Chiarelli’s first plan of action was to go see Draisaitl in Kelowna, Nurse/McJesus in Erie and then Hall and Eberle at the WCs… completely ignoring the largest mass of players in the organization that he doesn’t know, in OKC, who at the time were playing a short series with no guarantee of moving on.

    LT, anyone… do you find this plan a bit strange?

    Victory lap, maybe a little strange though! Makes you think he is going to part ways with one of the untouchables for a D, but that is reading way too much into it! 🙂

  124. Marc says:

    vinotintazo:
    I’m looking at the NYR’s D, and I’m just here droooling…. lol

    McDonagh – Girardi
    Marc Staal – Dan Boyle
    Yandle –Klain

    Klain’s cap is 2.9 for 3 seasons, and he’s a decent #4, and probably underrated.

    I think he’s a decent Petry replacement. (I like petry but his not comming back, and will sign for 5M, book it!)

    is there any way we can grab him? it will probably take marincin, or Davidson + to get him.

    NYR’s are in cap trouble next season, McDonagh, Girardi and Stall are not going anywhere, some have NTC and the other just signed.

    Yandle is on a value contract with retained salary.

    FWIW I think we’ll see Pittsburgh’s pick and an OKC Dman go to the Rangers for Talbot and Klein just before the draft.

  125. vinotintazo says:

    Marc: FWIW I think we’ll see Pittsburgh’s pick and an OKC Dman go to the Rangers for Talbot and Klein just before the draft.

    I think it depends on who’s available at 16, I mean if Chabot, Zacha, Barzal, Kylinton are available this pick will have more value… and I think its an overpayment in the Deal, mostly since Talbot only has one year left on his deal then He’s UFA.

    I’d rather trade it for a Top #3 Dman, but not sure who’s available, maybe phenuf on retained salary.

  126. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I think it is a tell UNLESS the plan is to visit the Barons when they get back from Europe. There are useful pieces down there, developing pieces, he’ll need to get to know.

    That’s probably part of the reason he kept Mact around.

  127. Woodguy says:

    spoiler: As long as it stays the way it has… pretty civil and a very minor part of this thread, I don’t see anything wrong with it.There is very little partisanship above and certainly no one is doing any actual politicking.

    And it’s not like we tell people to go to the Scotch forums or BBQ forums or Literature forums or Investment forums, or Southern Rock forums.

    Well, people don’t want other people to die over which scotch they prefer.

    That happens in politics.

  128. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: Well, people don’t want other people to die over which scotch they prefer.

    That happens in politics.

    That’s only because no one has ever pushed for a blended over a single malt.
    😉

    And that happens in sports too.

    But you know you are really stretching what has been discussed here today, right?

  129. Richard S.S. says:

    If you go to: http://oilersnation.com/ and read this article: http://oilersnation.com/2015/4/30/chiarelli-s-rookies it might give some insight into Chiarelli’s actions.

    Going to watch Draisaitl was probably to see if he’s ready to come up next year or will he be a hot trade commodity. Going to watch Nurse and McDavid was to see if Nurse was keeping up with The McDavid like everyone said. If Nurse is controlling the Game as much as The McDavid is, then Nurse might be up next year. Seeing Hall and Eberle helps decides who’s on what line next year. Training Camp is basically useless, just seeing if everyone developed as they were supposed to. Seeing your players in the Postseason or International play after a long season gives a truer picture of their talent and ability.

  130. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: Well, people don’t want other people to die over which scotch they prefer.

    That happens in politics.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0

  131. Marc says:

    G Money: Depends on where his wife is from.

    If she’s from Edmonton, or even the West like Babcock, the call of family can be pretty strong.That was a huge factor in the Return of Cryin’ Ryan.

    Pronger’s wife was from high society in the Deepish South.Cops in Edmonton probably didn’t shoot enough black people for her liking.(OOOOH.I am over the mark there?I detest the Prongers, both of them, so I think I’ll ignore the little creep on my shoulder telling me I’m over the line and leave that in).

    They were together when he was coaching Moose Jaw and they have a summer home in Saskatchewan, so even if she’s not from Western Canada she’s certainly spent time there.

  132. spoiler says:

    oliveoilers,

    Possibly the most inspired 3 minutes of satirical writing anywhere. I never tire of that scene.

  133. voxwah says:

    spoiler: This is my thought too, but when he decided to go to Kelowna, it wasn’t a sure thing he would get a future chance to see OKC.Depending on how long they spend in Prague, timing might still be tight for later, on OKC.

    I think more then anything MacT and the Oilers brass probably already had plans to go to Kelowna to see Leon already. The big change happened the morning of that game so it made sense for PC to go along on the trip, especially for the chance to talk to MacT and figure things out.

    MacT has a home in Kelowna and i’m sure he and PC shared a scotch overlooking the lake and had a heart to heart.

    I don’t think it’s necessary to read into the decision more then that. Going to the WC after that was a no brainer to talk to Todd McLelland. Head coach is far more time pressing then how ready Jujar is.

  134. Woodguy says:

    spoiler,

    But you know you are really stretching what has been discussed here today, right?

    I’ll trust you on that.

    When I saw it was politics, I didn’t read the posts.

  135. Woodguy says:

    oliveoilers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0

    There you go, bringing class into again.

  136. godot10 says:

    vinotintazo:
    I’m looking at the NYR’s D, and I’m just here droooling…. lol

    McDonagh – Girardi
    Marc Staal – Dan Boyle
    Yandle –Klain

    Klain’s cap is 2.9 for 3 seasons, and he’s a decent #4, and probably underrated.

    I think he’s a decent Petry replacement. (I like petry but his not comming back, and will sign for 5M, book it!)

    is there any way we can grab him? it will probably take marincin, or Davidson + to get him.

    NYR’s are in cap trouble next season, McDonagh, Girardi and Stall are not going anywhere, some have NTC and the other just signed.

    Yandle is on a value contract with retained salary.

    Klein << Petry.

    Klein is arguably < Marincin.

    If you are running Klein, Fayne, and Schutlz as your three right D, that is worse than last year, NOT better. You are NOT moving the needle.

    Good D that are going to move the needle cost money. Phaneuf is available, and probably can be acquired for relatively little in terms of asset value, and one can probably dump a couple of bad contracts the other way.

    Hey, I like Seabrook better, but he is only signed for one year. He is unlikely to be available. And if he re-signs it will be for Phaneuf money. I like Hjallmarsson better, but Chicago ain't giving up that extreme value for money contract.

    Paul Martin is already 34, and is going to cost $5.5 with duration risk. Sekera is late twenty something, but he is going to cost $5.5 also.

    There is no SAFE way to move the needle on defense. Phaneuf, I would argue, is the least risky of most of the alternatives. Especially, since the Oilers have Fayne, who can be buried with the d-zone starts.

  137. OilOnslaught "formerly Unicorns" says:

    I’m liking McLellan as the best fit for the Oilers. Babcock has been striking me as smug lately and I think his stature is not the right fit for a team like Edmonton at this point.

    I also don’t think the super grumpy thing is going to work with millennials as well as older players
    which Detroit has mostly relied on until very recently.

    As for old school Julien, Hitch, Carlyle, Maclean please no.

  138. Bling says:

    godot10,

    I really don’t want any part of Phaneuf.

    I think people are conflating this guy’s present ability with his past ability.

    No thanks.

    There’s really no reason for Chiarelli to do anything truly desperate; the D should be quite improved with full seasons from Nurse/Klef/Marincin.

    What is needed is a Petry-level player and then another.

  139. OilOnslaught "formerly Unicorns" says:

    godot10: Klein << Petry.

    Klein is arguably < Marincin.

    If you are running Klein, Fayne, and Schutlz as your three right D, that is worse than last year, NOT better.You are NOT moving the needle.

    Good D that are going to move the needle cost money.Phaneuf is available, and probably can be acquired for relatively little in terms of asset value, and one can probably dump a couple ofbad contracts the other way.

    Hey, I like Seabrook better, but he is only signed for one year.He is unlikely to be available.And if he re-signs it will be for Phaneuf money.I like Hjallmarsson better, but Chicago ain’t giving up that extreme value for money contract.

    Paul Martin is already 34, and is going to cost $5.5 with duration risk.Sekera is late twenty something, but he is going to cost $5.5 also.

    There is no SAFE way to move the needle on defense.Phaneuf, I would argue, is the least risky of most of the alternatives.Especially, since the Oilers have Fayne, who can be buried with the d-zone starts.

    I think they need a solid RD to play ahead of Fayne. They shouldn’t want someone locked in at LD with Nurse coming and two getting very good. They need a 1 RD and there isn’t one in the system.

  140. Woodguy says:

    spoiler:
    oliveoilers,

    Possibly the most inspired 3 minutes of satirical writing anywhere.I never tire of that scene.

    Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

    Come witness the violence inherent in the system!

    Help, help!! I’m being repressed!

  141. spoiler says:

    Woodguy: Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

    Come witness the violence inherent in the system!

    Help, help!! I’m being repressed!

    Lol. I know!

    Coincidentally, I am actually working on setting up my own satirical humour website right now. That movie is a big reason why I have chosen this path. Carlin, Pryor, Douglas Adams, the guy who writes Satirewire, are also huge inspiring forces for me.

    I hope (actually pray) that I can be half as good as the Pythons.

    Working on my own site has given me a lot of appreciation for what Allan Mitchell has done to get his own site up and keep it running and looking good–ie, dealing with WordPress, hosting etc. And then the fact he can churn out quality material twice a day is ungordly. Faustian even. Don’t know how he does it.

  142. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy: Oh, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

    Come witness the violence inherent in the system!

    Help, help!! I’m being repressed!

    You can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.

    If I went round saying I was an emperor because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d lock me up!

  143. oliveoilers says:

    spoiler: Lol. I know!

    Coincidentally, I am actually working on setting up my own satirical humour website right now.That movie is a big reason why I have chosen this path.Carlin, Pryor, Douglas Adams, the guy who writes Satirewire, are also huge inspiring forces for me.

    I hope (actually pray) that I can be half as good as the Pythons.

    Working on my own site has given me a lot of appreciation for what Allan Mitchell has done to get his own site up and keep it running and looking good–ie, dealing with WordPress, hosting etc.And then the fact he can churn out quality material twice a day is ungordly. Faustian even. Don’t know how he does it.

    The Pythons were exceptional in that they managed to mix sharp satirical material along with the inane.

    Upper-Class Twit of the Year was also a very good piece. poking fun at themselves.

    Michael Palin’s Ripping Yarns (particularly Crossing the Andes by Frog) is also a must watch.

    And remember: Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

  144. Woodguy says:

    All,

    I’m sure there’s some great Monty Python forums out there where these discussions are appropriate.

    This is a hockey blog and recalling excellent Monty Python bits can lead to hard feelings.

  145. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    OilOnslaught “formerly Unicorns”,

    Bird in hand. Babcock sounds like he isn’t sure and may wind up staying. I’d rather go get McLellan as well. Thankfully it seems Chiarelli is on the case. High probability if you wind up waiting for Babcock you end up with a Hossa situation and miss out on what you could have had instead.

    McLellan coach and Nelson learning under him while coaching the PP seems like a good fit. McLellan’s teams always played an uptempo, fun style to watch.

  146. oliveoilers says:

    Woodguy:
    All,

    I’m sure there’s some great Monty Python forums out there where these discussions are appropriate.

    This is a hockey blog and recalling excellent Monty Python bits can lead to hard feelings.

    Are you saying we should talk about………something completely different?

    *ducks behind sofa*

  147. oliveoilers says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”:
    OilOnslaught “formerly Unicorns”,

    Bird in hand. Babcock sounds like he isn’t sure and may wind up staying. I’d rather go get McLellan as well. Thankfully it seems Chiarelli is on the case. High probability if you wind up waiting for Babcock you end up with a Hossa situation and miss out on what you could have had instead.

    McLellan coach and Nelson learning under him while coaching the PP seems like a good fit. McLellan’s teams always played an uptempo, fun style to watch.

    And we don’t have a mouth piece like Jumbo Joe either.

  148. Lowetide says:

    There’s a new Python religion post up.

  149. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide:
    There’s a new Python religion post up.

    You’ve been trouble since day one mister.

  150. PhrankLee says:

    oliveoilers,

    I think it will be more like Evil Spock.

    The one with the goatee.

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