RE 14-15 MARK FAYNE: CAN’T LOSE WHAT YOU NEVER HAD

Mark Fayne was signed in free agency to provide Edmonton with a shut down defender who could help with the gathering storm. Fayne was deployed in a tough minutes role and delivered as best he could, but the effort was lost in the flood. Can a stay-at-home defender have a good season on a terrible defensive team and not get noticed?

RE 14-15: 67GP, 3-7-10 .149

ACTUAL 14-15: 74GP, 2-6-8 .108

MARK FAYNE BOXCARS, THREE YEAR TREND

fayne fancy three

MARK FAYNE FANCY STATS, THREE YEAR TREND

fayne boxcars three year

  1. What do the numbers tell us? Fayne was used in a slightly different fashion than in New Jersey and of course he didn’t have Andy Greene as his partner. That said, there are some good things here.
  2. Like what? He had the most severe zone start and faced the toughest comp (this is via war-on-ice) and his possession number is decent considering those factors. I liked the signing in the summer, seems to me Fayne will be fine the Chiarelli can get him a good partner and a goalie.
  3. Who did he play with? Most often with Martin Marincin and most successfully with Niki Nikitin.
  4. Who should he play with? Andy Greene would be nice.
  5. Did the Oilers have anyone like that on the roster? Yes. Jeff Petry.
  6. Too bad you didn’t suggest that pairing last fall! I did! Also suggested Nikitin-Fayne might have value.
  7. Is there anyone on the current roster who could play against the tough opposition effectively with Fayne next season? I think there are candidates for the job, but they’re inexperienced. Oscar Klefbom may be used in that kind of role next season, Martin Marincin may grow into that role and Darnell Nurse could eventually perform in that situation. None are terrific options for next season.
  8. What about Andrew Ference? I don’t think the captain can wheel at that rate anymore.
  9. Anyone out there? Willie Mitchell would be nice, Andy Greene, Marc-Edouard Vlasic, Barret Jackman had a pretty good season in the role, Zbynek Michalek. Your mileage may vary.
  10. So, if they get one of those guys, you’re fine with Fayne in this role? Sure. It’s a tough job. Fayne had tough zone starts and was playing the toughest available opposition, and—on this team—helped the Oilers to a 46% possession number. At the very least, I’m prepared to give him the job for another year.
  11. Is Fayne the only veteran you like? He’s the only veteran who will be around when the good times come. Fayne is 27 (birthday later this month) and has 316 NHL games to his credit. Edmonton has him under contract until summer 2018 and the team should be headed in a good direction by that time. Another contract—he’ll turn 31 that summer—seems reasonable.
  12. How many kids make the team next season? Do we want to have this conversation now or after the RE?
  13. Look, it snowed last night, it’s crappy this morning. How many kids? I think we’ll see two moves by Chiarelli this summer, one by trade and the other in free agency.
  14. Okay, shoot. If you’re looking for specifics, signing Andrej Sekera and trading for Brent Seabrook are my answers.
  15. What is the cost on Seabrook? I’ll say the No. 16 overall pick and Martin Marincin, and we can quibble about what might come back or additional assets heading the other way.
  16. What would the pairings look like? Lots of room to mix and match, but I would suggest Sekera—Seabrook, Nikitin —Fayne and Klefbom—Schultz. 7D is Andrew Ference.
  17. That’s an expensive defense. You bet. Sekera will be a five-spot, Seabrook is $5.8M, Nikitin $4.5M, Fayne $3.625M, Klefbom $1.244M and Schultz $3.625M. Plus Ference at $3.25M. That’s just past $27M.
  18. What’s the cap? $71.5 million? Something like that.
  19. That’s too much to spend on defense! Then buy out Nikitin and replace him with a less expensive option. Or trade Justin Schultz over the summer, that’s an idea worth talking about more.
  20. Is this your sneaky way of getting Darnell Nurse on the team? I don’t think there’s a way to keep Nurse off the team this season, but adding Sekera and Seabrook probably blocks him off pretty well, depending on who gets sent out of town.
  21. Marincin leaving isn’t going to be any fun. No, but if you have Klefbom with one year’s experience and Nurse as the first callup, that’s enough youth for one season.
  22. What does the ‘bubbling under’ depth chart look like? If we assume the above to be the future, then the Bakersfield team would have Darnell Nurse, Brandon Davidson, Brad Hunt, David Musil, Jordan Oesterle, Dillon Simpson, Martin Gernat, Joey Laleggia. Something like that.
  23. Among that group, who will we see next season? It’s all back to ‘start’ if a new coach comes in. I think most of these guys are placeholders at this point in their career, with Brandon Davidson valued by MacT, Howson and the management group. However, that all changes with Chiarelli and the new coach.
  24. You think we’ll see a chance in the weather on the depth chart in Bakersfield? I think MacT always valued guys like Davidson (or Toby Petersen or Scott Ferguson) more than their actual value. Suspect Chiarelli will see things in a different manner and that may impact the future of these young men.
  25. Wait a minute here. You hate Davidson? No, like Davidson a ton. I’m just saying that the same mind that projected Justin Schultz as a Norris candidate also called up Brandon Davidson over Martin Marincin. Those are peculiar things, they’re a tell. MacT doesn’t give a rat’s ass about draft pedigree and that’s a good thing. Until it’s not.
  26. Okay. Sure. Why this song? Pretty self explanatory on one level, because Fayne went from a quality pairing in NJ to an elevator shaft in Edmonton. Whatever is required from his partner to make the tandem effective, Fayne didn’t have that help here.
  27. Anything else? The stronger link is this: The song comes from the 1975 album ‘Win, Lose or Draw’ and that album came at the end of some of the greatest music ever put to vinyl. It was an awful record, was panned by the critics and ignored by radio. One of the few items worthwhile? This song. I think that fits Fayne in relation to the defensemen acquired during the MacT era via free agency.
  28. Do you really think we’ll see No. 16 and Marincin plus leaving, and NHL veterans coming in? Yes. I think there’s enough out there in terms of cap concerns, and a desire in Edmonton to turn north. I can’t say it will be Seabrook and Sekera, it could be Mike Green and Paul Martin. However, someone is coming.

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233 Responses to "RE 14-15 MARK FAYNE: CAN’T LOSE WHAT YOU NEVER HAD"

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  1. Pouzar says:

    Michelangelo-McDavid:

    Question to you.HOw do you get a top pairing defenseman?That will fit in your salary structure and you will not get rid of Nuge, McD, Hall or Eberle.

    Draft and develop.
    Sign FA.
    Trade.

  2. Rip Fan Winkle "OilOnslaught" says:

    JJ:
    Re: Seabrook
    I would rather trade Pittsburgh pick and Schultz for the Hanifin pick.
    Better fit for cluster.

    I like that idea other than the team has only 1 RD and no hot prospect in the system.

  3. Bag of Pucks says:

    Here’s an analogy that I think is interesting in terms of trading players, prospects especially (for example Eberle for Jones).

    You can take the Checkers view. In this view, you’re assessing the trade on a very limited timescale (i.e. now) to decide the relative value of the assets. In this view, the established goal scorer Eberle is perceived as a King while the still developing Jones is perceived as a ‘man’ or ‘uncrowned piece.’

    You’ve spent 7 hard years getting Eberle to the other side of the board for that crown, so there’s no way in hell you’re going to sacrifice him for a single, meager piece. By contrast, there’s no guarantee Jones will ever earn the crown, which is again reinforces his limited value in comparison to the known quantity. Thus no trade, no way.

    Then, there’s the Chess view (i.e. the longview). In this view, Eberle’s known skillset projects him as a Knight, a one dimensional complimentary piece with a single well defined skillset. An effective piece when used properly no doubt, but hardly a gamechanger on its own. Seth Jones by contrast is a potential Queen, a 30+min a night top pairing D that projects favourably to play the toughs and produce points. Outside a generational player like MacDavid, he is the single hardest piece to acquire on the open market.

    Needless to say, you’ll take your opponent’s Queen for your Knight every damn time, unless you’re playing an esoteric strategy completely dependent on that Knight, which I’d love to hear!

    It’s not that Jordan Eberle isn’t a damn fine player right now. It’s that players like him are available in the draft and free agency almost every year. Players that project favourably as franchise D (gamechangers) are not. When it comes to assessing value at a transactional level, ‘market value’ trumps all.

    We’re so used to our GM playing Checkers, we’re going to have to get used to Chess now. It’s a good place to be.

  4. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    cabbiesmacker: which the Hawks would fall over laughing at so not much point even mentioning.

    some ppl’s kids I tell ya.

    Please show me here where I said the Hawks would accept that offer. If you bothered to read the next post down you would see that I said an astute GM wouldn’t go for it, but I question whether Bowman is that smart to sell high on Seabrook and keep Hjalmarsson because Seabrook has much more name value and is Keith’s partner.

    I also asked the question if the price may come down a little if the Oilers took on a bad contract to help the Hawks, eg. Bickell’s but you chose to ignore that, too.

    The point of my comment was to say that acquiring Seabrook was a mistake.

    This is the second time in a week you’ve just come in here and insulted me in this manner insinuating I’m on drugs last time and then now this. You seem to have all the answers. Waiting to see what you propose then; please do enlighten us with your ideas that are apparently obvious to all but me. And yes, I’m the child of my father and mother. You have an issue with that? You don’t even know how old I am.

  5. godot10 says:

    Ducey: Evidence?

    Franson had tough zone starts, second pairing competition and still put up a decent CF of 49.8.

    I don’t know how his splits between NASH and TOR were, but nothing there suggests he wouldn’t be of use to the Oilers.

    Whats wrong, he has nice hair?Or him coming might upset your continuing Dion narrative?

    Look at more than one season. Take away the bloated Corsi post trade deadline from Nashville, and 3 years in a row, Franson is less than 48% CF with two years under 45%.

    He is NOT a tough minutes defensemen. Phaneuf faced the toughest competition in Toronto. Petry faced the toughest competition in Edmonton.

    You would be committing to a guy who has NEVER played the toughs, not even in the eastern conference. He has never played about a #4.

    And he was a non-factor in the playoffs against Chicago.

  6. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    BoP and Pouzar,
    Interesting debate. I feel like Nashville’s greatest need is, and continues to be a #1C more than anything else. They’ve never really had one in their history, Ribeiro’s solid season and Legwand’s past included.

    If Nashville moves Jones I think that’s what they would target. I think Draisaitl is not enough but RNH is too much. I know Woodguy thinks Draisaitl is of equal value alone or more.

    I can’t see Nashville moving Jones for Eberle because it doesn’t address their biggest need (not because Eberle isn’t good enough) and IF they decide to trade Jones they would recognize that he is their best bargaining chip to fill that need. If Nashville already had their 1C, were looking like Cup contenders, and really wanted a strong offensive threat for their top line going into the playoffs, Eberle might work as a centrepiece, but that’s not the case at the moment, in my opinion.

  7. vinotintazo says:

    godot10,

    yes we get it, you hate franson. 😛

  8. Bag of Pucks says:

    Taking the Chess analogy further.

    Taylor Hall is a Rook. RNH is a bishop. Ference is a pawn. Yak is a King. McDavid is a Queen in the hands of Bobby Fisher.

    Ben Scrivens is the steam iron piece in Monopoly. Justin Schultz is a lost Battleship peg that rolled under the couch.

  9. Bag of Pucks says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”:
    BoP and Pouzar,
    Interesting debate. I feel like Nashville’s greatest need is, and continues to be a #1C more than anything else. They’ve never really had one in their history, Ribeiro’s solid season and Legwand’s past included.

    If Nashville moves Jones I think that’s what they would target. I think Draisaitl is not enough but RNH is too much. I know Woodguy thinks Draisaitl is of equal value alone or more.

    I can’t see Nashville moving Jones for Eberle because it doesn’t address their biggest need (not because Eberle isn’t good enough) and IF they decide to trade Jones they would recognize that he is their best bargaining chip to fill that need. If Nashville already had their 1C, were looking like Cup contenders, and really wanted a strong offensive threat for their top line going into the playoffs, Eberle might work as a centrepiece, but that’s not the case at the moment, in my opinion.

    Agree

  10. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    Taking the Chess analogy further.

    Taylor Hall is a Rook. RNH is a bishop. Ference is a pawn. Yak is a King. McDavid is a Queen in the hands of Bobby Fisher.

    Ben Scrivens is the steam iron piece in Monopoly. Justin Schultz is a lost Battleship peg that rolled under the couch.

    Nikita Nikitin is the marble from hungry hungry hippos that my dog ate.

  11. The Duke of Hafford says:

    What about targeting someone like Travis Hamonic? The Islanders have just invested big money in Leddy and Boychuk and do not have many draft picks this year. Could 16 be used as part of a package? Also does anyone know about the play of Damon Severson in New Jersey? He is a lone blue bubble in a sea of red.

  12. supernova says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”:
    BoP and Pouzar,
    Interesting debate. I feel like Nashville’s greatest need is, and continues to be a #1C more than anything else. They’ve never really had one in their history, Ribeiro’s solid season and Legwand’s past included.

    If Nashville moves Jones I think that’s what they would target. I think Draisaitl is not enough but RNH is too much. I know Woodguy thinks Draisaitl is of equal value alone or more.

    I can’t see Nashville moving Jones for Eberle because it doesn’t address their biggest need (not because Eberle isn’t good enough) and IF they decide to trade Jones they would recognize that he is their best bargaining chip to fill that need. If Nashville already had their 1C, were looking like Cup contenders, and really wanted a strong offensive threat for their top line going into the playoffs, Eberle might work as a centrepiece, but that’s not the case at the moment, in my opinion.

    I think Jones and Draisatl would be the makings of a Trade between the two.

    Don’t see the interest from Nashville for Eberle.

  13. supernova says:

    The Duke of Hafford:
    What about targeting someone like Travis Hamonic?The Islanders have just invested big money in Leddy and Boychuk and do not have many draft picks this year.Could 16 be used as part of a package?Also does anyone know about the play of Damon Severson in New Jersey?He is a lone blue bubble in a sea of red.

    The Duke of Hafford,

    LT radio show has Todd Cordell on who writes about Devils for Hockeybuzz.

    from my understanding they would be more inclined to move Gelinas or even Larsson before

    but new GM means everything is on the table.

    for my money I have been saying Larsson for Yakupov for about a year and a half. I will just continue to say that.

  14. GCW_69 says:

    godot10:
    Phaneuf is the best value for a defensemen IF

    1) one can lose Nikitin’s and Purcell’s contracts in the deal, AND
    2) the cost is only a draft pick

    1) Chara is too old
    2) Seabrook probably isn’t available, and will cost more than Phaneuf, and will come with an 8-year commitment vs. a 6-year commitment for Phaneuf.One will also not be able to dump bad contracts on Chicago.
    3) The other UFA D are going to cost $5 million something for 6 years anyway.Not much less than Phaneuf, and not any better.
    4) Fayne has demonstrated that he can handle the D-zone start hell, which means Phaneuf can be used properly, which he wasn’t in Toronto.
    5) Phaneuf comes with a bit of necessary physicality that the Oilers blueline lacks.
    6) Phaneuf is probably available.
    7) Nicholson, Chiarelli, McLellan, McDavid probably means that Phaneuf might not refuse a trade to Edmonton.

    The problem with Phaneuf is that he is a mean version of Schultz. He is a very good offensive defenseman but he totally sucks at playing tough minutes. Can the Oilers afford to burn that much cap space on someone who can’t play a two way game?

  15. LadiesloveSmid says:

    supernova: I think Jones and Draisatl would be the makings of a Trade between the two.

    Don’t see the interest from Nashville for Eberle.

    Think you have to be in love with Jones to do that.

    Draisaitl screams centre you need in the playoffs to me. Hopefully he gets a bit of a mean streak and works on that lower body strength, but the guy will be a stud. Seeing him shield the puck from Nurse with his behemoth back for a decade would kill me. He’s got a dimension that none of Edmonton’s top 9 has.

    Let’s keep Drai. Trade/sign filler pieces, draft/develop top end. Nurse, Klef, Marincin should be the hope for a quality left side.

  16. Bag of Pucks says:

    Ca$h-Money!: Nikita Nikitin is the marble from hungry hungry hippos that my dog ate.

    I always thought of him as that metal arm under the table hockey game that always catches the arm above it, effectively seizing up the whole assembly.

  17. striatic says:

    Bag of Pucks: Ben Scrivens is the steam iron piece in Monopoly. Justin Schultz is a lost Battleship peg that rolled under the couch.

    That’s gold.

  18. Ca$h-Money! says:

    GCW_69: The problem with Phaneuf is that he is a mean version of Schultz.He is a very good offensive defenseman but he totally sucks at playing tough minutes.Can the Oilers afford to burn that much cap space on someone who can’t play a two way game?

    I’d rather have Chara because:

    1. His contract is almost over
    2. He can be an actual mentor to these kids. in the sense of being a guy tasked with being elite and counted on (not an aging career mid level guy like Ference et. al.) There is no one better to teach Marincin, Klefbom, and Nurse what it takes to be big, nasty, and effective.
    3. Phaneuf is a terrible person by the account of every person I’ve ever met that knows the guy in any context. I don’t want to cheer for him.

    I understand Chara is old and past his prime, but for the love of gord Phaneuf is not the solution.

  19. Ca$h-Money! says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Yours is better. Kudos.

  20. stevezie says:

    When discussing trading for a D it is important to remember how many are available for just cash this summer.

    Trading Yak (or whoever) for Larson (or whoever) is in effect trading Yak and the guy you don’t sign.

    Yes, Larson fits better than Sekera, but is he Nail Yakupov better? I’m not so sure.

  21. G Money says:

    knighttown: Everything you say about his circumstances are quite true. He was thrown in the deep end but instead of implying he stayed afloat we need to be clear that the fella drown something awful. We need to turn the conversation to whether:
    A) what is “reasonable” given those minutes
    B) are we willing to get slaughtered for 1/3 of every game or would we be better to spread the pain around a bit
    One of my first goals as head coach would be to dig some of these sub-47 guys out of this hole as they obviously aren’t handling it.

    Observation on Mark Fayne:

    When he first got here, I was super impressed. He was calm, cool, collected. Many things most Oiler D have not been for a long time.

    I found myself thinking quite a bit “Now THERE’S a legit NHL defenseman.”

    I found myself thinking that less and less as the season wore on. Fayne definitely seemed to lose something as the year progressed.

    Not to open up the old Eakins wound for those who could see nothing right, but one of the crucial observations on Eakins is that while the youngsters clearly struggled, the veterans for the most part did pretty well. Guys like Hendricks, Gordon, Fayne, and even Perron (last season) had good seasons.

    I was going to post this as a NerdAlert (and may still) but I’m short on time right now, so I’ll leave you with a chart.

    Given that Fayne is a defensive defenseman, CF% is not a good marker for what he can deliver, since he’s tasked with shutting down the oppositions best rather than trying to score.

    So I used CA/60 and SCA/60 as the markers of his game.

    http://i.imgur.com/Ts4VzLJ.jpg

    You can clearly see the numbers going down (lower is better) in the first third to half of the season. For both Corsi and scoring chances, he was steadily getting better.

    After Nelson took over, you can see that things got quite volatile in comparison, especially his CA/60.

    Still improving over the course of the season in both disciplines under Nelson, but it seems pretty clear to me that the changeover of systems and coaches threw him for a loop. This makes sense if you think about it. Defensive defensemen rely on ‘knowing the system’ probably more than any other player.

    So it may not have been the partner.

    Theory for next year: regardless of whether it’s Nelson, Babcock, or McLellan, having one coach and one system for the year will herald the return of Steady Mark Fayne.

  22. G Money says:

    P.S. All 5×5 numbers, Corsi and scoring chance data from war-on-ice.

  23. Richard S.S. says:

    I’m reading what everyone suggests, but not seeing sufficient value coming back. There have to be more NHL Teams with Cap Issues and something the Oilers want, than just the ones discussed. The 16th pick in the Draft has extreme value, possibly 5-7 in a non-2015 year. It must never be wasted on just a Goaltender. To get a ‘feel’ for the people we’d like to see on this Team, Blogs (older posts) on that Team should give a ‘truer’ picture of how good that Player is. Whether that matches what we want to see is most interesting.

  24. Lowetide says:

    G Money: Very insightful, thanks for that!

  25. striatic says:

    The Duke of Hafford: What about targeting someone like Travis Hamonic? The Islanders have just invested big money in Leddy and Boychuk and do not have many draft picks this year. Could 16 be used as part of a package?

    One of Hamonic or De Haan should be available.

    I prefer De Haan because he will likely come at a lower cost and has as much to offer, long term.

    Hamonic is more proven and a right shot to boot, but something really good is going back.

    Either would be great. I actually wanted the Oilers to go after Hamonic or De Haan last season but figured there was no way that sort of deal could happen since Hamonic was so critical to the Islanders. Then they go sign Leddy and Boychuck, everything works out with that and suddenly maybe there’s an opening.

  26. striatic says:

    Griffin Reinhart should be taking De Haan’s job soon anyway, so they have incentive to move him.

    The Islanders D situation screams trade opportunity.

  27. knighttown says:

    G Money: Observation on Mark Fayne:

    When he first got here, I was super impressed. He was calm, cool, collected.Many things most Oiler D have not been for a long time.

    I found myself thinking quite a bit “Now THERE’S a legit NHL defenseman.”

    I found myself thinking that less and less as the season wore on.Fayne definitely seemed to lose something as the year progressed.

    Not to open up the old Eakins wound for those who could see nothing right, but one of the crucial observations on Eakins is that while the youngsters clearly struggled, the veterans for the most part did pretty well.Guys like Hendricks, Gordon, Fayne, and even Perron (last season) had good seasons.

    I was going to post this as a NerdAlert (and may still) but I’m short on time right now, so I’ll leave you with a chart.

    Given that Fayne is a defensive defenseman, CF% is not a good marker for what he can deliver, since he’s tasked with shutting down the oppositions best rather than trying to score.

    So I used CA/60 and SCA/60 as the markers of his game.

    http://i.imgur.com/Ts4VzLJ.jpg

    You can clearly see the numbers going down (lower is better) in the first third to half of the season.For both Corsi and scoring chances, he was steadily getting better.

    After Nelson took over, you can see that things got quite volatile in comparison, especially his CA/60.

    Still improving over the course of the season in both disciplines under Nelson, but it seems pretty clear to me that the changeover of systems and coaches threw him for a loop.This makes sense if you think about it.Defensive defensemen rely on ‘knowing the system’ probably more than any other player.

    So it may not have been the partner.

    Theory for next year: regardless of whether it’s Nelson, Babcock, or McLellan, having one coach and one system for the year will herald the return of Steady Mark Fayne.

    Great stuff as always and I’d say the vets in general suffered a bit in the back half of the season. Gordon wore down too and his Corsi % ended up cratering. I’d like to see his graphs too. Possibly twofold for reasons?

    1. General wear down from handling insane zone starts and stiff competition on old knees and
    2. Primarily I’d say, Nelly really runs his lines in Sedin like fashion. Just pounded the easy minutes on to Schultz and Fayne and Ference were the other side of the coin.

    One thing I’d like to hear further from you on…Cor % isn’t a good measurement for a defenseman. I’d be open to hear that it “isn’t the best metric” or “has some issues as a metric” but how can it not be a good metric and shouldn’t it be at least better than Corsi against per 60.

    Hockey is a game of what you take minus what you leave and removing the take part must flaw the results.

    I would think Corsi against per 60 is almost useless…showing Smids and Aulies ahead of Subbans and Karlssons.

    Maybe not tho…here to learn.

  28. cabbiesmacker says:

    NYCOIL “Taking Photos”: Please show me here where I said the Hawks would accept that offer. If you bothered to read the next post down you would see that I said an astute GM wouldn’t go for it, but I question whether Bowman is that smart to sell high on Seabrook and keep Hjalmarsson because Seabrook has much more name value and is Keith’s partner.

    I also asked the question if the price may come down a little if the Oilers took on a bad contract to help the Hawks, eg. Bickell’s but you chose to ignore that, too.

    The point of my comment was to say that acquiring Seabrook was a mistake.

    This is the second time in a week you’ve just come in here and insulted me in this manner insinuating I’m on drugs last time and then now this. You seem to have all the answers. Waiting to see what you propose then; please do enlighten us with your ideas that are apparently obvious to all but me. And yes, I’m the child of my father and mother. You have an issue with that? You don’t even know how old I am.

    I say we should try to get Doughty by dangling Klink, Ference, and a 4th?

    19?

  29. Factotum says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I have no dog in this hunt – I just thought it would be amusing to play the game. The Pronger trade checks off all of your criteria. Here are a couple more that are close but don’t meet your definition exactly.

    Aaron Ward was drafted #5 overall by Winnipeg in 1991.
    In 1993 he was traded along with a 4th round pick and future considerations for Paul Ysebaert.

    Luke Schenn was drafted #5 overall by Toronto in 2008.
    In 2012 he was traded to Philadelphia for James Van Riemsdyk.

    Not too easy to find examples, because as you know relatively few d-men are drafted in the top 4. Even fewer are traded, especially within two years of being drafted. And fewer still were traded in a straightforward transacation with only 2-3 pieces, which would tend to eliminate things like Tverdovsky/Kilger+ for Selanne+ from consideration.

    All of that aside, were I to take a position on the idea of Eberle/16th for Seth Jones, my opinion is this: if I’m Nashville I don’t make that deal.

    To me, it’s nothing more than an interesting mental exercise. Cheers.

  30. NYCOIL "Taking Photos" says:

    cabbiesmacker: I say we should try to get Doughty by dangling Klink, Ference, and a 4th?

    19?

    Because that’s really the same thing, isn’t it. Have a good evening.

  31. Gally says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    You’re hanging on too dearly to draft position. If draft position is all that matters, I’ll trade you the number eight draft pick for the number 33. Only, let’s do it in 2009. You get one game of Scott Glennie, I get Ryan O’Reilly. Or how about Datsyuk? Poor, poor draft position. Every player drafted ahead of him had a better career. Or Jack Johnson, drafted third overall, traded two years later with 30 yr old Tverdovsky for 29 yr old Eric Belanger and 25 yr old Tim Gleason after college but before stepping foot in the A or NHL. Defenseman are voodoo, and Daigle was a 1ov, so stop using draft position to compare players because it neglects things like strength of draft and team needs.

  32. v4ance says:

    Jack Johnson, #3 OV 2005

    2006 Traded with Oleg Tverdovsky (tail end of career, mainly a salary dump)

    To LA for Eric Belanger and Tim Gleason.

    Carolina won this trade since they got 7 good years of Gleason whereas Johnson couldn’t hold a spot in the top 4 in LA’s lineup consistently.

    On the other hand, LA won the next Johnson trade by picking up Jeff Carter for their first cup win.

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