JIVING SISTER FANNY

Well the first, it’s in. Well the second? So what. It’s over, gone, we need to let it go. Well the third? Go to hell, I’m still mad. A very frustrating night for this Oilers fan.

The Edmonton Oilers didn’t get a late celly and they didn’t get a point from last night’s game. This week is a bugger, with Minny, Montreal and Calgary the foes. If you think 3-6-0 looks bad, try 3-9-0 on for size. The problems are the problems, the solutions in the ether (well, one or two solutions are in Bakersfield, the rest are in the ether).

It’s one thing if it didn’t cost anything, but McLellan’s Oilers are trying to dig out from a decade of suck. That point mattered, in the standings and in the look of 3-5-1 as opposed to 3-6-0. Maybe they can use this as a bonding moment, an us against the world moment.

This is us. Life and death despite the McDavid. Peter Chiarelli solved the goalie issue in a day last summer, the blue is going to take longer. We’ll catch you later, LA. Maybe next time you won’t need the zebra push.

Scott Cullen of TSN has done much fine work around the draft these last years. Scott’s line in the sand for a useful selection is 100 games, and it works when looking across many seasons and trying to find a universal success point. However, I’ve always preferred the 200-game mark—you can’t Marc Pouliot your way to that number by being a high pick in a strong year. If a player makes it to 200 NHL games, he’s done something memorable. Even a guy like Magnus Paajarvi (228 NHL games) was part of a fabulous rookie crop in 2010 and will always be remembered for the David Perron trade.

Which brings me to Anton Lander. This is a very important season for him. If Lander can hold on to the 3C role and provide Edmonton with some offense, the Swede who looks like he’s headed to a 1960’s coffee shop for an evening of folk music could hang around for the rest of the decade. If he can’t, it might he here’s your hat what’s your hurry. What does he needed to do in order to keep the job? Score a little, hang in with possession and help on special teams.

ANTON LANDER 2014-15

  • 5×5 points per 60: 1.60 (5th among regular forwards)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 5.52 (2nd among regular forwards)
  • Qual Comp: 13th toughest competition among regulars (fourth line)
  • Qual Team: 12th best competition among regulars (fourth line)
  • Corsi for 5×5 %: 48.6
  • Corsi for 5×5 % REL: 5.2
  • Zone Start: 49.4%
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 61 shots/9.8%
  • Faceoffs: 50.1%
  • Boxcars: 38, 6-14-20

ANTON LANDER 2015-16

  • 5×5 points per 60: 0.00 (in 99:21 minutes)
  • 5×4 points per 60: 0.00
  • Qual Comp: 2C
  • Qual Team: 3C
  • Corsi for 5×5 %: 33.7
  • Corsi for 5×5 % REL: -10.6
  • Zone Start: 31.0
  • Shots on goal/percentage: 12 shots
  • Faceoffs: 52.3%
  • Boxcars: 9GP, 0-0-0

I’m a fan of Anton Lander and do think he’s been getting the short end of the stick in terms of linemates. In pre-season, that third line was humming with Lander, Nail Yakupov and Leon Draisaitl. So far this season, Lander has been slotted with Lauri Korpikoski and Teddy Purcell (both over an hour with Anton). They haven’t pissed a drop. Go, Anton, Go! I’m cheering for you, sir.

CAM TALBOT

I haven’t mentioned him much, but would like to extend a heartfelt thank you to Cam Talbot on behalf of my ulcer and various body parts. His hockey-reference box is a warm quilt on a cold, blue day.

talbot in a box

BLUE IN A BOX, LAST NIGHT

OILERS D OC 24

  • Andrej Sekera is finding his way now, emerging as the strong option on this team for all the chores. They beauty of a complete defenseman is you can run him hard in close games and I think we’re getting closer to a Klefbom—Sekera pairing.
  • Mark Fayne suffered a lot of slings and arrows last night (I was in one of many exchanges on twitter, people don’t like this fellow). For me, he had a good game, played more than usual because of the Schultz injury and he’s one of three blue on the team I consider bona fide.
  • Brandon Davidson was fine to my eye, McLellan sheltered him (to be expected) but he can retrieve the puck and battle monsters in the corner. He played better than Ference had in his games, meaning  that my depth chart now has AF at No. 8 among roster D.
  • Eric Gryba is fast becoming Todd McLellan’s minutes muncher. He can defend but is a poor puck handler, I think we may see Klefbom—Gryba on Tuesday night if Schultz can’t go. They were 2-3 in 3:55 together.
  • Oscar Klefbom spent much of the first two periods in the fog of war. He was 0-9 in 8:38 with Schultz, 2-3 in 3:55 with Gryba, 5-6 in 3:42 with Fayne, 3-0 in 2:29 with Davidson, 0-3 in 1:35 with Sekera.
  • Justin Schultz was injured in last night’s game. I’m not a doctor, but did watch Scrubs. If he was injured on the play SN ran after the period, I’ll suggest back or ribs. Here’s hoping he isn’t out for long.

The Oilers have to do something about the pairings not named Sekera—Fayne, and I think part of that should be to at least consider breaking up that pairing.

  • Klefbom—Sekera
  • Nurse—Fayne
  • Reinhart—Schultz

nurse condors

NURSE

I know you’re sick of this (your DMs and emails tell me so) but for me there’s no reason for the Oilers to delay the recall of Darnell Nurse. He was quality in the spring during the AHL playoffs and he’s quality now. Call him up, insert him in the lineup. If he’s poor, the Oilers can send him down after a few games. I’ve maintained all along that he is one of the six best defensive options and he should be here now. After watching last night’s game, I can’t imagine anyone disagrees. At the very least they can start getting him that NHL experience he’s going to need in order to start pushing the river at the highest level. The excuse of Griffin Reinhart also needing those initial NHL minutes to have the game slow down for him don’t apply—Reinhart is injured. Call up Darnell Nurse. It’s the right thing to do.

CENTERS IN A BOX, LAST NIGHT

oil c oc 25

  • Nuge took some hits in the game-day thread on this site last night, but for me he was money again. Skated miles, faced the Doughty pairing and the Carter line, and of course grabbed an apple on a beauty pass on the five by four.
  • Connor McDavid is the truth, and the light. 6-4 v. the killer Doughty. Fin.
  • Mark Letestu is showing well with his line of jackals. 2-5 v. Nolan-Clifford.
  • Anton Lander will get hammered at the office today, but a 20ZS and 8:35 against the Kopitar line is a tough way to make a living. I still like him, cheering like hell, but no idea how much faith Todd McLellan has in him.

WINGERS IN A BOX, LAST NIGHT

oil w oc 25

  • Rob Klinkhammer, at some level, must be pinching himself every day. Holy man, what an opportunity. He’s doing everything he can to stay in the clean air, including all kinds of smart decisions. Cheating for defense, making sure the skill guys get the puck back, the whole nine yards. This opportunity will soon be gone and Klink will go back to doing the chores, but my oh my this has to be a fantastic moment in his career. Kind of like discovering Jiving Sister Fanny in a bargain bin (as I did, summer 1975, McLeod’s Hardware, Maidstone SK. Mr. Meier sold it to me).
  • Benoit Pouliot cashed the EV goal last night off a McDavid sortie and looked good for the most part last night. He has some vapor lock moments in his game but I love the guy’s skill set on that line.
  • Taylor Hall continued his battle with Drew Doughty, it’s one of my favorite modern clashes. People simply don’t get how good Doughty is, and it’s a mystery to me. Hall was 6-8 against him last night.
  • Nail Yakupov is getting some of the shimmy shake back in his stickhandling, time for another reminder about giddyup passes. He looked a little tentative at times, probably because he has the good sense to know what the hell he’s up against when LAK come to town. Made a nice pass to McDavid on the first goal and then drove to the net—a key item in the score. Our young man has found a home, I wouldn’t take him from McDavid’s line even if Eberle was healthy.
  • Iiro Pakarinen went unnoticed by me. I feel bad, will watch the game again.
  • Teddy Purcell is not well-suited to the game he’s being asked to play, but he does his best and doesn’t bitch about it. Such a nice passer, it galls me to hear people complain about him. Skill, people. It’s more important than hitting someone. Seriously.
  • Luke Gazdic fought (it was a good fight, his highlight reel is going to be mammoth before he’s through) and for me is a better player this year for what he brings.
  • Lauri Korpikoski isn’t doing enough good things for me to forgive that penalty, but if we’re honest it was a cheap call on a night Edmonton wasn’t going to win because the Gods weren’t going to let it happen.

The Oilers should recall Leon when they send for Darnell. Put him on the Lander line, give those poor buggers some clean air and let’s see what happens when the offense is opened up a little. The 3-6-0 start is good in one way: Peter Chiarelli will be more open to new ideas.

shepherd 1

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A packed, rocking show this morning at 10, TSN 1260. Scheduled to appear:

  • Scott Burnside, ESPN. The Habs are up, the Ducks are down, and Connor McDavid keeps on rolling.
  • Rob Soria, Vavel USA. The Blue Jays are done and we’re on the Royals-Mets.
  • Sunil Agnihotri, The Superfan, Copper and Blue. The game last night, staying the course, what’s reasonable in terms of expectations for this week.
  • Andrew Bucholtz, 55-Yard Line. The Eskimos started slowly and then kicked out the jams against the Roughriders on the weekend. Can they deliver enough offense in the Western Final?

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

written by

The author didn‘t add any Information to his profile yet.
Related Posts

163 Responses to "JIVING SISTER FANNY"

  1. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Leon needs to show me a 0.8ppg 20 game stretch in the AHL to get called up.

    Good metrics and quality play reviews be damned, that kid needs to score points. He’s got to be doubting himself right now, got to. Putting him on a Lander line in the NHL won’t help that.

    Sorry, still can’t agree. I understand we need help but I don’t think sacrificing this kid’s development is the right call.

    Nurse, yes, yes, a thousand times yes…. if we can fit him under the cap. However that works.

  2. Sugar Reijo says:

    It’s hard enough being tasked with beating Quick. Having to take on the command centre crew too? Infuriating.

    This garbage about not seeing pucks under goalie gloves has long since passed the point of ridiculousness. It’s not a shell game. If the glove’s all the way over the line where else could the puck be but in? Whatever possible parallax angle you can make goes out the window once you combine that damning camera angle from last night. No assumptions required. And no magic bullet type defense available.

  3. Kmart99 says:

    Screw it. I’d like another 10 games or so for Darnell in Bakersfield, but I want Oilers wins way more right now and this team looks so close to being on the other side of these games.

    Call in the Nurse. He would’ve helped immensely last night.

    If Schultz and Reinhart are out tomorrow night, then Nurse has to get called up. CAn’t run Davidson and Ference.

  4. jp says:

    RE: belief in Lander.

    That he’s remained in the lineup, and not even been dropped down to 4C, suggests McLellan has faith.

    He needs to be better, and i’m cheering too, but that 3-line has to score occasionally.

  5. blainer says:

    Jultz’s injury could be a real breakthrough for the D if he is out for long. I was hoping to see a Fayne Klef pairing and Sekera Gryba.. Jeebus .. call up Nurse and NO more Ference PLEASE..

    Klefbom Fayne

    Sekera Gryba

    Nurse Reinhart..

    We are really missing hendy out there.. He hits and really does well on the draw.. Hoping Jultz misses min of six games.. but playing ference in his place will show us nothing..

  6. Woodguy says:

    If Lander is making his living against Kopitar with shit zone starts you can’t throw DrySaddle on that line and expect him to succeed.

    That’s throwing him in the deep end with a concrete life preserver.

    If you throw Saddle there then Letestu has to take on Kopitar duty.

    Doable, but not with the assignments the lines currently have.

    I think that’s the plan eventually. Having a healthy Eberle and Hendricks give you the ability to change the assignments, but not today.

  7. godot10 says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Leon needs to show me a 0.8ppg 20 game stretch in the AHL to get called up.

    Good metrics and quality play reviews be damned, that kid needs to score points.He’s got to be doubting himself right now, got to.Putting him on a Lander line in the NHL won’t help that.

    Sorry, still can’t agree.I understand we need help but I don’t think sacrificing this kid’s development is the right call.

    Nurse, yes, yes, a thousand times yes….if we can fit him under the cap.However that works.

    THIS!

    Draisaitl doesn’t have a passing grade (for an elite prospect) in the AHL yet. It is preposterous to say that he should be in the NHL.

    Reinhart is probably healthy, game-day skate yesterday. So the Nurse can wait a little while longer, but Nurse is far closer than Draisaitl.

  8. Ducey says:

    Are there two LT’s?

    Because one of them relentlessly calls for Nurse and Leon to be called up. Then when I say its a bad fucking idea, the other LT points to his RE: series and says, “I have them playing 50 NHL games, I agree.”

    Its a bad fucking idea.

    Leon has 2 points in 6 games and is -5. He has only 13 shots. He only recently pulled his head out of his ass. He needs at least another 10 games of good performances before you think about it. Right now his steak of decent work is one game. Its not about the what’s best for the Oilers right now. Its what’s best for the player and therefore the Oilers in the long-term.

    We have no information that says Nurse will be any better than Davidson right now. None. He’s got tools. He needs to learn how to play the position, and make better reads. He needs to learn when to jump into the play and when not to. The place to learn that is the AHL.

    And this:

    I know you’re sick of this (your DMs and emails tell me so) but for me there’s no reason for the Oilers to delay the recall of Darnell Nurse. He was quality in the spring during the AHL playoffs and he’s quality now. Call him up, insert him in the lineup. If he’s poor, the Oilers can send him down after a few games.

    Come on, man! Call him up and then if he “is poor” send him down again? That should do wonders for his confidence. That will help the Oilers, too.

    Here is another option: Make sure he is good an ready, so that when you call him up, you’re quite sure he will not being going back to the minors.

  9. godot10 says:

    Why don’t you compare what Nugent-Hopkins did against Kopitar with better linemates than what Lander did against Kopitar with poorer linemates?

    Nugent-Hopkins got Carter and played with Sekera.

    Lander got Kopitar and played with Schultz.

    If one doesn’t put advanced stats in context, you get the absurdity of the Franson Derangement Syndrome in the Oilogosphere, where people wanted to offer 2nd pairing money with term to a mediocre 3rd pairing D.

  10. mattwatt says:

    Last night sucked.

    How everything played out last night was level of suckitude I haven’t experienced in some time; it wasn’t the team that blew so much but rather the parties involved with the game. Both of Korpikopski’s penalties were borderline calls; they could have gone either way. Fine, but if that is being called them please call McDavid getting cross-checked in front of the net with the puck nowhere near him. I felt that play was borderline, and must of been called for consistency sake. That is what is so maddening about the decisions last night. One can handle consistent calls. One cannot handle maddening inconsistency.

    Then the goal. Please tell me when logic was removed from on-ice decisions. “We have no conclusive evidence.” Okay, but majority of people would come to a conclusion that the puck was in the net given where his glove was. It crossed the line. Yet everyone but the NHL saw it as such. Just stupid. Funny thing, we need conclusive evidence for goals but when it comes to running players NHL uses the term “intention” when they have no certainty as to what a players intention is. Again, maddening inconsistency.

    Then there is the technology aspect. We have a $4 billion+ industry a year where: a) there is no red-line cameras; and b) chip technology is saved for the half-marathons but not a puck going over the red line. Just stupid. There is technology that exists that would fix this. Furthermore, I doubt this technology is all that expensive (relatively speaking).

    In all, last night was a gong-show against the Kings. And for a large part of it, it wasn’t the fault of the players. Just stinks.

  11. Barcs says:

    If both Schultz and Reinhart are going to be out for any length of time, you really have to call Nurse up. When either of the former are ready to come back, you can re-evaluate.

    I don’t doubt that Chiarelli WANTS to call Draisaitl up. That 3rd line isn’t scoring and here you have a prospect in the minors who can undoubtedly help with that.

    The problem is that Drai hasn’t shown enough in the minors yet to deserve a call up on merit. Chia has said he wants Drai to go down and establish himself in the AHL in all areas of his game before coming up. To call him up now when he has yet to do so would undermine the GM’s authority. He would be bringing Drai in because he is desperate for complimentary scoring, not because Drai has earned it.

  12. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Ducey,

    This reminds me of my grumpy NO LEON post yesterday. Are you by chance pulling up linoleum this afternoon as well?

    I mean agree with you for the most part, but poor LT can’t be expected to keep dealing with our pissy attitudes. And I say our because I’m guilty of quite literally the same offense.

  13. Dominoiler says:

    LT, in the post you said Lander was going against the Kopitar line a lot. Do you think Leon is going to help w that assignment?.. McDavid’s line is getting the softies push, leaving Leon to do Yeoman work w Lander, no?.. Is that the best situation for Leon?

  14. godot10 says:

    It is amusing that an eighteen year old kid is more mature and level-headed that many in the Oilogosphere.

    McDavid was channeling his inner Belichek in the post-game already, and was “on to Minnesota”.

    McDavid expects to score a lot of goals. He isn’t going to fret a bad call, like a goal is going to be an unlikely occurrence for him.

  15. delooper says:

    Where has a level-headed LT gone? It sounds like the impatient fan has pushed him out of the room. Draft and wait. The “normal” LT understands this, the one that likes to strive for reasonable expectations.

  16. RMGS says:

    Barcs: If both Schultz and Reinhart are going to be out for any length of time, you really have to call Nurse up.

    I’m guessing that Nikitin gets called up before Nurse.

  17. G Money says:

    godot10,

    McDavid hasn’t been through the living hell of the last nine years as a fan, or the three to four years of misery that many of his teammates have been. Many of them have lived through these referee-led hackjobs, especially against LA. He hasn’t.

    He *is* mature and level-headed, but the reaction of last night likely has at least as much to do with lack of experience and naivete as it does maturity.

    I can picture an outcome where the Oilers miss the last playoff spot, by a point, to the LA Kings …

  18. RMGS says:

    delooper:
    Where has a level-headed LT gone?It sounds like the impatient fan has pushed him out of the room.Draft and wait.The “normal” LT understands this, the one that likes to strive for reasonable expectations.

    It’s all a bit Stockholm Syndromish. After being held hostage for so long by incompetent Oilers management, one may actually start believing in some of that old regime’s very poor way of managing assets.

  19. slopitch says:

    2 big “saves” from Quick last night. One on Yak from point blank and the other on CMD (which we are all too painfully aware of went in). We could be talking much differently this morning.

  20. doritogrande says:

    I have a scary (good) question. I’m not trying to set him up for failure with overhype, but is this Connor McDavid going supernova?

  21. G Money says:

    Re: Dr. Drai.

    My personal guess with Leon is that part of his early-season struggles in the AHL are a result of anger and hurt feelings.

    It was obvious this summer that he was 100% focused on making the NHL this season (he played *37* games last year as a rookie, and he’s a much better player today). He must have been devastated to be sent down.

    We saw that when he got sent back to Jr last year too. Started a bit slow and then got stronger and stronger and ended up Mem Cup MVP.

    I suspect once he pulls his spirits out of the dump – it’s easy to say he should be more mature about it, but he’s a 19 y.o. FFS – he’ll start ripping up the AHL. And then he should be called up. But not before then.

    He’s an upgrade on Korpikoski right now, but to my mind, waiting is the right move.

  22. G Money says:

    doritogrande,

    The kid is running point-per-game in his first 9 games as a frickin’ 18 year old rookie.

    His starting point is supernova.

  23. godot10 says:

    I’m glad that McDavid is not going to be a whiner like Crosby. The other guys are going to be whining soon enough.

  24. doritogrande says:

    G Money:
    doritogrande,

    The kid is running point-per-game in his first 9 games as a frickin’ 18 year old rookie.

    His starting point is supernova.

    Maybe I should have qualified further. Is this McDavid going supernova, or does he STILL have another gear in a couple of years’ time?

  25. dustrock says:

    I think it’s Year One of McDavid & the ELC, and that’s where the frustration and “Look to Windward” in Bakersfield is coming in.

    If this was yet another Oilers failure year, who gives a darn. But people are treating this like it could be a year where maybe we somehow defy logic and the hockey gods and sneak into the playoffs?

    This is an evaluation year and you want to evaluate all of the good players at some point…or something. We know Nurse and Draisaitl will be in the lineup next year, that’s guaranteed.

    After a night’s sleep clearing my head somewhat from the Fog of War Room, here are some quick thoughts:

    (1) If the best we can say for Davidson is “well, he’s better than Ference”, there may be no better example of damning with faint praise. Sorry, he doesn’t cut it. If we want to get an NHL caliber defence, it’s not going to involve guys like Davidson. Or if we do involve him, it’s only because we already have 5 NHL caliber defencemen….which we clearly don’t.

    (2) As this is an evaluation year, I’m actually hoping that Schultz is gone for a week or so, and McLellan and Chia Pete will have to assess the D corps without him. We’ll get a better sense of Klefbom’s skating and passing ability (already on display in the 3rd last night) and hopefully a better sense of where Reinhart, Davidson and possibly Nurse fit in. For god’s sakes, maybe we’ll actually see Sekera-Klefbom. We need a minute muncher defenceman.

    (3) I kinda feel that the McDavid line is already carrying us at even strength. RNH & Hall draw the toughs, and yet again, the best they can do is try to saw even, and maybe draw a penalty. Not seeing a ton of EV opportunities from any line but Pouliot-McDavid-Yakupov.

    The 3rd and 4th line scoring is non-existent. Guys like Purcell and Korpse, Gazdic, aren’t really helping much. People can rag on Letestu, but give him better linemates and he’ll look better.

  26. khildahl says:

    It would be easier to move on if the headline on NHL.com wasn’t ecstatically raving about Quick “robbing” McDavid.

    It’s one thing for a ref to make bad call (though changing his mind in the middle of signalling a goal is a new one), but for the league to double down on it is just ridiculous.

  27. dustrock says:

    G Money: Re: Dr. Drai.My personal guess with Leon is that part of his early-season struggles in the AHL are a result of anger and hurt feelings.

    Pretty sure he admitted as much with an interview on Friday. Came out much more focused on Saturday.

  28. Eastern Oil says:

    doritogrande:
    I have a scary (good) question. I’m not trying to set him up for failure with overhype, but is this Connor McDavid going supernova?

    I thought that last night when Ryan Batty was tweeting about him. Small sample size and all, but imagine this player when he’s 22-23, 10-15 lbs heavier? He’s a special player without a doubt.

  29. G Money says:

    Re: Nurse.

    He’s an upgrade on every current bottom pairing defender not named Reinhart. And even that’s not for sure.

    But that was true from day one of training camp.

    That’s not good enough reason to call him up though. At least a half season on the top pairing in the AHL, develop some “calmness” to go with those incredible physical tools, will do him nothing but good.

    I think Chia and TMc know this.

    Suspect if Jultz is out for a while, we may see our old friend Nikitin called up. As bad as he is, it’s worth remembering he’s better than Ference in almost every way.

  30. McSorley33 says:

    I am going to put my hand up and say that I have been too negative on Fayne….WG’s numbers tell the truth. Still not a fan of Fayne but he is FAR from our worst problem…he is in fact one of our few NHL D-men.

    Someone needs to re-post Klef’s number with Schultz and without….I think there is a story there.

    I will be very curious to see how the team does -without – Justin in the lineup.

    The only thing Darnell should be doing in the AHL is learning to play the right side. Full stop.

  31. PhrankLee says:

    Well for me the best case is to call up Ford, Miller, Hunt and anyone else who is seeing more AHL TOI than the prospects. They need to frigging play the prospects in the trust roles in Bakersfield.

    Big developmental gap in the 50 man list. This is why I think he picked up GR. We need 3 or 4 elc guys on the big club to contribute actual NHL shifts.

    We aren’t going to win any battle this year least of all the one for posterity.

    We were kicked pretty hard in the posterity a few times already this season.

  32. G Money says:

    doritogrande: Maybe I should have qualified further. Is this McDavid going supernova, or does he STILL have another gear in a couple of years’ time?

    This is his rookie gear. I think he’s got (at least) two more gears. We’ll see one later this year, and another one next year. Superstar forwards peak early, 21 to 22, and stay at their peak til 27 or 28.

    We haven’t even seen the ‘real’ Connor McDavid yet.

  33. Sugar Reijo says:

    doritogrande: Maybe I should have qualified further. Is this McDavid going supernova, or does he STILL have another gear in a couple of years’ time?

    As McLellan has said McDavid hasn’t physically filled out yet. I was amazed how strong he looked against the Kings last night, and the thought of him only getting stronger is scary.

  34. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    dustrock:

    (1) If the best we can say for Davidson is “well, he’s better than Ference”, there may be no better example of damning with faint praise.Sorry, he doesn’t cut it.If we want to get an NHL caliber defence, it’s not going to involve guys like Davidson.Or if we do involve him, it’s only because we already have 5 NHL caliber defencemen….which we clearly don’t.

    Disagree.

    I think, realistically, you need 8 Dmen who you can put on the ice. Reality is you’re going to have at least 1 injury at a time, maybe two, plus maybe somebody is struggling.

    From that perspective I think Davidson is fine. Would I be happy if he was our #5 and we were pencilling him in for 82 games? Not so much.

    He will get better as he gets more NHL reps, and he’s OK in the sense that he’s not totally drowning in this type of role. I’d rather watch a rookie struggle than a veteran struggle, because with the rookie every minute makes him a better player, whereas with Ference every tick of the clock makes him older and therefore worse.

    I think, realistically, he would be top 8 on at least 15 teams in the NHL. It’s a low bar but it’s reality. And he costs $585,000…. that’s valuable in it’s own right. Nkitin’s remaining NHL cap hit is 6 times his actual salary.

  35. Ducey says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Ducey,

    This reminds me of my grumpy NO LEON post yesterday.Are you by chance pulling up linoleum this afternoon as well?

    I mean agree with you for the most part, but poor LT can’t be expected to keep dealing with our pissy attitudes.And I say our because I’m guilty of quite literally the same offense.

    No lino 🙂

    Its Monday morning and its cold out. Sorry for being pissy.

    This team is not making the playoffs. It can’t really make moves until they clear out NN, Purcell, Scrivens and Ference.

    The only thing that I will be watching is that the development of the kids happens properly. If Nurse is developed properly and patiently, then he fills a D spot next year. If they screw him around, he might be the next Lander/ MPS/Gagner etc. and a question mark next year.

    Same thing with Leon. He has to be an offensive catalyst. Until he can do it consistently in the AHL, he is not suddenly going to do in the NHL.

  36. J-Bo says:

    Woodguy:
    If Lander is making his living against Kopitar with shit zone starts you can’t throw DrySaddle on that line and expect him to succeed.

    That’s throwing him in the deep end with a concrete life preserver.

    If you throw Saddle there then Letestu has to take on Kopitar duty.

    Doable, but not with the assignments the lines currently have.

    I think that’s the plan eventually. Having a healthy Eberle and Hendricks give you the ability to change the assignments, but not today.

    Agreed. Once Eberle and Hendricks are back for a couple of weeks, I think we will see a recall. In the meantime, I’m hoping for Nurse as I can’t handle anymore Ference and don’t even get me started about the possibility of calling up Nikitin…

  37. jonrmcleod says:

    LT, do people who read this blog actually email you? Why wouldn’t they just say what they want to say in the comments section?

  38. Rake 2.0 says:

    G Money:
    godot10,

    McDavid hasn’t been through the living hell of the last nine years as a fan, or the three to four years of misery that many of his teammates have been.Many of them have lived through these referee-led hackjobs, especially against LA.He hasn’t.

    He *is* mature and level-headed, but the reaction of last night likely has at least as much to do with lack of experience and naivete as it does maturity.

    I can picture an outcome where the Oilers miss the last playoff spot, by a point, to the LA Kings …

    I also picture this outcome, followed by the Oilers winning the draft lottery, because Oilers.

  39. knighttown says:

    No chance you can call up Leon to play with Lander in the role Lander is playing. It would be end-of-days bad facing for Lander having to face Kopitar with Drai and Korpi on his wings. That’s the thing; even if Draisatl was ready, he’s only ready for 2 slots; 1) Skill line winger or 2) 4th line centre.

    McDavid/Yak were continue to get the soft minutes. Nuge/Hall get power vs power. Perhaps Nuge slides on RW there but I don’t think he can handle the defensive responsibilities nor can he retrieve the puck and crash the crease like TMac like.

    Leon can’t possibly play RW on the Lander line in this role.

    But what if Letestu goes up to RW on line 3 with Korpi and Lander and those three get thrown in the deep end?

    That leaves Pak-Draisatl-Purcell as a 4th line. Not traditional but pretty damned skilled.

  40. 719 says:

    LT hates development.

    (Did I do that right?)

  41. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy:
    If Lander is making his living against Kopitar with shit zone starts you can’t throw DrySaddle on that line and expect him to succeed.

    I actually did write ‘give him clean air’ you must have missed it.

  42. John Chambers says:

    719:
    LT hates development.

    (Did I do that right?)

    You forgot to add:

    Go piss up a rope, Bookje!

  43. Lowetide says:

    Ducey:
    Are there two LT’s?

    Because one of them relentlessly calls for Nurse and Leon to be called up.Then when I say its a bad fucking idea, the other LT points to his RE: series and says, “I have them playing 50 NHL games, I agree.”

    Its a bad fucking idea.

    Why do people get so angry, instead of thinking about the possibilities. Darnell (and Leon) could get called up this week AND spend 50 and 41 games (respectively, those are my RE’s) in the NHL this season. It is EXTREMELY unlikely either man stays without a return trip despite what management and coaching say.

    And if I may linger a moment longer, I would request the same respectful approach toward me from you that has been extended from me to you.

    Thanks.

  44. John Chambers says:

    jonrmcleod:
    LT, do people who read this blog actually email you? Why wouldn’t they just say what they want to say in the comments section?

    Because they are delusional about this bring a vocation as opposed to a recreational outlet.

    Like, some people are legitimately cray cray, and the local hockey team or a friendly blog site becomes the lightning rod for their ire. Poor them.

  45. Lowetide says:

    Dominoiler:
    LT,in the post you said Lander was going against the Kopitar line a lot.Do you think Leon is going to help w that assignment?.. McDavid’s line is getting the softies push, leaving Leon to do Yeoman work w Lander, no?.. Is that the best situation for Leon?

    No. I said call up Leon and give the line clean air. It’s in the post.

  46. Lowetide says:

    delooper:
    Where has a level-headed LT gone?It sounds like the impatient fan has pushed him out of the room.Draft and wait.The “normal” LT understands this, the one that likes to strive for reasonable expectations.

    I’ll never understand why people feel a need to get personal.

  47. böök¡je says:

    Has anyone thought about maybe calling up Darnell Nurse?

  48. oliveoilers says:

    719:
    LT hates development.

    (Did I do that right?)

    It’s a great first attempt! But, it should go a little something like this:

    LT, why do you hate development?

    😉

  49. oliveoilers says:

    böök¡je:
    Has anyone thought about maybe calling up Darnell Nurse?

    Darnell who?

  50. Lowetide says:

    jonrmcleod:
    LT, do people who read this blog actually email you? Why wouldn’t they just say what they want to say in the comments section?

    All the time. I love it

  51. delooper says:

    Lowetide,

    Hmm, I thought much of the enjoyment people got out of this was the personal interactions.

    Maybe my comment came off a little different than I intended with it being surrounded by the angry other posts.

    It just seems way too early to be calling up Nurse and Draisaitl, to me at least. They were sent down for a reason and I’m pretty skeptical the reason was they needed a week or two in the AHL.

  52. Lowetide says:

    delooper:
    Lowetide,

    Hmm, I thought much of the enjoyment people got out of this was the personal interactions.

    Maybe my comment came off a little different than I intended with it being surrounded by the angry other posts.

    It just seems way too early to be calling up Nurse and Draisaitl, to me at least.They were sent down for a reason and I’m pretty skeptical the reason was they needed a week or two in the AHL.

    If you call someone not “normal”, that’s a shot where I come from. Perhaps it’s another word that has a new meaning these days. Certainly has happened before.

  53. Oil2Oilers says:

    Klefbom—Sekera
    Nurse—Fayne
    Reinhart—Schultz

    I have been sold on this since the start of the season. I think we will have to wait another 11 games minimum before we see it. Give or take Schultz’s health. Sadly I for see a lot of Ference and Nikitin over the next 11.

    Fayne would be a excellent mentor for Nurse but will be painful to watch defending the many 2 on 1’s against caused by Nurse’s rookie walk abouts.

    Rienhart-Schultz should work stylistically and as a 3d pair face a soft parade.

  54. Sugar Reijo says:

    khildahl:
    It would be easier to move on if the headline on NHL.com wasn’t ecstatically raving about Quick “robbing” McDavid.

    To be fair McDavid *was* robbed. They’ve misidentified the culprit(s), is all.

  55. delooper says:

    Ah, it was more of a reference to your dueling-personalities posts. Reasonable-expectations Lowetide vs “angry fan” Lowetide. That’s the title I give to your two characters, in my mind.

  56. Obiwan Eberle says:

    G Money,

    Does anyone else have this feeling like there is a “where we’re going, we don’t need roads” level of play about to occur…..I really get the sense that we are seeing something truly extraordinary but incomplete, call it the chrysalis phase.

    What happens when Eberle provides a push to the number 1 line…

  57. delooper says:

    Obiwan Eberle,

    This team is certainly in transition. Probably there’s some big bumps ahead…

  58. Oil2Oilers says:

    Lowetide: All the time. I love it

    This comment thread is still discussing your original post 2 hours in, another McDavid miracle!

  59. gmac2412 says:

    So I guess the picture above in respect of the no goal is not conclusive enough then? Sure looks in to me!!

    I didn’t see that view in the Sportsnet feed last night as all they seemed to show was the over the camera view and have to question whether the powers that be used it as well. Time for technology to be used.

    If even those corrupt crackpots at FIFA can implement goal line technology, maybe Bettman et al should be thinking of the same.

  60. Water Fire says:

    Last night was great to me. The Oilers could have beat the Kings based on play, as opposed to by luck or a no show from the opponent, even with odds against them.

    They were in that game in every way, and the most dangerous player in the game was an Oiler 9 GAMES into his career. Let’s hear an WG WOOOOOOTTT!!!

    Management now no doubt has a longer view on the roster than what was achieved, as opposed to intended, before.

    My take is Leon and Lander are being groomed. If Lander stays the C group once Lander outperforms Letestu and Leon can follow the plan is McD Nuge Drai Lander, Anton gets the the dirty. Keep centre strength and use wingers to manage the cap and as trade pieces.

    Perhaps Drai will be a top 6 winger, but why not use him at wing then as he’s being groomed, and that doesn’t fit with the verbal from almost any NHL org about centres with skill, speed and size. I think the winger idea was to have him on the team now because he is physically ready, but they felt he wasn’t developed enough. I have to agree.

    The fact that the core is young and will gel gives them a chance at keeping the most key players together because that stage is the most loyal players will ever be. The emergence of the team may also mean more cap friendly deals from UFA’s outside the org which can help. I hope!

  61. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Lowetide,

    You need another button next to the paypal function called “Buy Beer”.

    It would be an account setup for you at the local pub or liquor store, so grumps like me and Ducey could easily send you the requisite apology beer for which you are so deserving. Sort of a digital running tab if you will.

  62. Drew says:

    godot10: THIS!

    Draisaitl doesn’t have a passing grade (for an elite prospect) in the AHL yet.It is preposterous to say that he should be in the NHL.

    Reinhart is probably healthy, game-day skate yesterday.So the Nurse can wait a little while longer, but Nurse is far closer than Draisaitl.

    Have not read ahead and in a sense I agree. Staples recent article suggests that Leon is leading the team in generating chances and is not getting the bounces. Once he does seems like he is checking off the those boxes. Not sure on his defensive chops though.

  63. Oil2Oilers says:

    I think TMac will be quietly happy about last nights game. The Oilers cleary were not the better team but stayed in it and had a chance to win. That is a big damn deal after all the years of suck and giving up a touch down to Washington.

  64. Lowetide says:

    delooper:
    Ah, it was more of a reference to your dueling-personalities posts.Reasonable-expectations Lowetide vs “angry fan” Lowetide.That’s the title I give to your two characters, in my mind.

    Ah, gotcha. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

  65. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Bright(ish)side:

    I believe the reasonable expectation through 20 games was 6-14-0 or so…

    We get the Flames, Ducks, Flyers, Coyotes, and Devils between here and the 20 game mark. It’s also not outside the real of possibility that goaltending steals us a game or two against a better team.

    Seems like we are what we thought we were.

  66. delooper says:

    Oil2Oilers,

    I similarly don’t see why people got so worked-up about that game. In previous years it would have been a 3-1 or a 4-1 finish, with no hopes of evening-up the score in the dying seconds.

    But it was a one-goal game until the end. And a very Gretzy-esque effort to tie up the game happened in the final moments. They didn’t get the win but we have *at least* some exciting more-losses-than-wins hockey happening.

  67. Bank Shot says:

    G Money:
    godot10,

    McDavid hasn’t been through the living hell of the last nine years as a fan, or the three to four years of misery that many of his teammates have been.Many of them have lived through these referee-led hackjobs, especially against LA.He hasn’t.

    He *is* mature and level-headed, but the reaction of last night likely has at least as much to do with lack of experience and naivete as it does maturity.

    I can picture an outcome where the Oilers miss the last playoff spot, by a point, to the LA Kings …

    How can you picture that?

    The Oilers are bottom 5 in basically every statistical category outside of goaltending.

    5 on 5 corsi. 27th Putrid.
    4 on 5 shots againt. 28th Brutal
    5 on 4 shots for. 24th Weaksauce.

    They are closer to contending for another first overall than they are to making the playoffs.

    I think the core needs a shake up. They need to balance the roster. Send out one of the high end offence only forwards for a D-man.

  68. delooper says:

    Lowetide,

    I’m sorry about it too. I did not imagine all the grumpiness from last night would hold over until today.

    It was an awesome game last night. Past two years I would have turned the game off in the 2nd period. But I really wanted to watch. It wasn’t just my ties to Edmonton making me feel like I should watch the game. The Oilers are a fun team to watch again.

  69. Drew says:

    G Money:
    Re: Nurse.

    He’s an upgrade on every current bottom pairing defender not named Reinhart.And even that’s not for sure.

    But that was true from day one of training camp.

    That’s not good enough reason to call him up though.At least a half season on the top pairing in the AHL, develop some “calmness” to go with those incredible physical tools, will do him nothing but good.

    I think Chia and TMc know this.

    Suspect if Jultz is out for a while, we may see our old friend Nikitin called up.As bad as he is, it’s worth remembering he’s better than Ference in almost every way.

    He even has a shot from the point for the PP. Been awhile since that was in the Oilers’ PP playbook.

  70. Магия 10 says:

    G Money:
    Re: Nurse.

    He’s an upgrade on every current bottom pairing defender not named Reinhart.And even that’s not for sure.

    But that was true from day one of training camp.

    That’s not good enough reason to call him up though.At least a half season on the top pairing in the AHL, develop some “calmness” to go with those incredible physical tools, will do him nothing but good.

    I think Chia and TMc know this.

    Suspect if Jultz is out for a while, we may see our old friend Nikitin called up.As bad as he is, it’s worth remembering he’s better than Ference in almost every way.

    I suspect you’re right.

    They want to send him up not when he’s 6th man, but when he’s completed the training to reduce the entropy in his game and make more of his energy available for useful work (Physics joke: That’s a Doctorate in Thermodynamics for Mr. Nurse!).

    Then again if he’s ahead of schedule he may come up early, but with a good chance to stay not just to visit.

  71. PhrankLee says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!: I believe the reasonable expectation through 20 games was 6-14-0 or so…

    I have them at 4-15-1 as well. I believe we are on the right track for the first time since 06.

    Chia has a lot of house work to do procuring NHL talent (soon, I hope)

    There is also a need for both culling the herd and phasing out the unnecessary. (Players and Executive)

  72. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: I actually did write ‘give him clean air’ you must have missed it.

    If one is giving McDavid the clean air, there is NO clean air to give Draisaitl without tanking the season, unless one plays him 8 minutes on the 4th line.

  73. Lowetide says:

    godot10: If one is giving McDavid the clean air, there is NO clean air to give Draisaitl without tanking the season, unless one plays him 8 minutes on the 4th line.

    Sure there is. The Oilers had Gordon in the dungeon all last season and two lines running hot all year. You’re not going to be able to give Nuge-Hall clean air beyond ZS’s, that I agree with you on.

  74. Adam Wu says:

    The secret to the Detroit model is to ice an NHL roster that a prospect only cracks *when* he is developmentally ready. You never have to make any tough choices weighing what is best for the team in the short term against what is best for the prospect’s development in the long term, because, thanks to wise roster management, those two will always be the *SAME* thing. You never get tempted to call up a prospect too early because the NHL lineup has enough real hockey players to do the job satisfactorily without the prospect. You never have to burden a prospect with the idea of being a “savior” because you never *NEED* a savior.

    The Oilers are not there yet, on D.

  75. Water Fire says:

    Gryba as a 3rd pairing RHD isn’t bad if the cost is low. He isn’t fast but like Fayne he can skate, his stops and starts/edges aren’t bad meaning ‘not a pylon’. Reinhart too. Everybody gets walked once in a while.

    Gryba is being played above pay scale but quality options are limited at this point and McLellan is not afraid to push it to see what he’s got. I like that.

    I saw Davidson pretty good last night. Definitely some rookie wobbles, but he’s pretty quick and seems to have a head for the game.

    If Nurse gets the call I’d like to see
    Klef Sekera
    Nurse Fayne
    Davidson Gryba

  76. Магия 10 says:

    godot10: Reinhart is probably healthy, game-day skate yesterday

    Did not know if that meant anything because he was skating with Ebs yesterday, but just a few minutes ago:

    “Justin Schultz is not on the ice but seven other defencemen are: Brandon Davidson, Eric Gryba, Oscar Klefbom, Andrej Sekera, Andrew Ference and Griffin Reinhart. Reinhart is skating with the team at a full practice for the first time since his injury”.

    (assume Fayne is the one they forgot to list)

  77. Ducey says:

    Lowetide: Why do people get so angry, instead of thinking about the possibilities. Darnell (and Leon) could get called up this week AND spend 50 and 41 games (respectively, those are my RE’s) in the NHL this season. It is EXTREMELY unlikely either man stays without a return trip despite what management and coaching say.

    And if I may linger a moment longer, I would request the same respectful approach toward me from you that has been extended from me to you.

    Thanks.

    Sorry. I apologized at 10:01.

    Sorry again.

    My comments were not intended to be personal.

    I have a ton of respect for you and what you have built here.

    I am, though, in total disagreement with what you are proposing.

  78. Ducey says:

    Bank Shot: How can you picture that?

    The Oilers are bottom 5 in basically every statistical category outside of goaltending.

    5 on 5 corsi. 27th Putrid.
    4 on 5 shots againt. 28th Brutal
    5 on 4 shots for. 24th Weaksauce.

    They are closer to contending for another first overall than they are to making the playoffs.

    I think the core needs a shake up. They need to balance the roster. Send out one of the high end offence only forwards for a D-man.

    Wouldn’t you expect this with a team that finished 28th last year, missing one of their top scorers, with a new coach, 6 or 7 new players, including 2-3 rookies on any given night?

    I think they are actually about where we might expect them to be at this stage, especially given strength of schedule.

    I look at the level of play and while it is not stellar, there are a lot more “saw ’em good” moments this year.

  79. Lowetide says:

    Ducey: Sorry. I apologized at 10:01.

    Sorry again.

    My comments were not intended to be personal.

    I have a ton of respect for you and what you have built here.

    I am, though, in total disagreement with what you are proposing.

    And I missed it because of a pissy mood. Sincere apologies, Ducey.

  80. Traktor says:

    McDavid has already leveled up a couple times since game 1. Its incredible to see how how fast he is improving.. went from feeling things out to the best player in the league 8 games lol

  81. Drew says:

    Traktor:
    McDavid has already leveled up a couple times since game 1. Its incredible to see how how fast he is improving.. went from feeling things out to the best player in the league 8 games lol

    Who hacked this account? 🙂

  82. Магия 10 says:

    Field guide for anyone having trouble parsing the difference between polite disagreement and compelting agreement:

    for me there’s no reason for the Oilers to delay the recall of Darnell Nurse”

    vs.

    “There is no possible reason for not recalling Darnell Nurse. This proves they do not want to fix the defense. Anyone who accepts the sorry excuses for proven negligence deserves the apocalypse to follow.

  83. Drew says:

    Магия 10:
    Field guide for anyone having trouble parsing the difference between polite disagreement and compelting agreement:

    for me there’s no reason for the Oilers to delay the recall of Darnell Nurse”

    vs.

    “There is no possible reason for not recalling Darnell Nurse. This proves they do not want fix the defense. Anyone who accepts the sorry excuses for proven negligence deserves the apocalypse to follow.

    Did not see OEL in there anywhere, only part marks

  84. Магия 10 says:

    Drew: Did not see OEL in there anywhere, only part marks

    Though it might go into moderation if I mentioned OEL 🙂 Was illustrating that even when LT uses categorical phrases like “no reason” he politely adds “for me”. There’s a good lesson there.

  85. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: Sure there is. The Oilers had Gordon in the dungeon all last season and two lines running hot all year. You’re not going to be able to give Nuge-Hall clean air beyond ZS’s, that I agree with you on.

    And that strategy got the Oilers to 28th and 30th in the last two years, until Nelson took over and went to one protected line only (Roy-Yakupov).

    Draisaiti is -5 in the AHL. When he is a plus player, and scoring at 0.8 PPG in the AHL (over a 20 game stretch), that is when he might be able to help.

    Draisaitl has to learn how to play without the puck. This was something he has never had to learn before, because he always had the puck. When he is a plus player for 20 games in the AHL, then he will have demonstrated that he has reached minimum competency without the puck to be ready for the NHL.

  86. SwedishPoster says:

    Water Fire:
    Gryba as a 3rd pairing RHD isn’t bad if the cost is low. He isn’t fast but like Fayne he can skate, his stops and starts/edges aren’t bad meaning ‘not a pylon’. Reinhart too. Everybody gets walked once in a while.

    Gryba is being played above pay scale but quality options are limited at this point and McLellan is not afraid to push it to see what he’s got. I like that.

    I saw Davidson pretty good last night. Definitely some rookie wobbles, but he’s pretty quick and seems to have a head for the game.

    If Nurse gets the call I’d like to see
    Klef Sekera
    Nurse Fayne
    Davidson Gryba

    I saw Davidson good as well. He makes the smart play most of the time, did a good job getting the puck up ice though he won’t make the big transition pass, keeps the big chances against away outside of the time he got walked by Clifford and is strong enough to lean into people. He also did a good job protecting the offensive blue when given the opportunity. He’s good for the spot he’s in right now and my guess is that he’s at thevery least a better version of Gryba some 150 games into his NHL career.

    Yak certainly has turned a corner but I felt last night he was looking a little too much for McDavid. It’s good that he’s got the mindset to find McDavid, he’s recognized that Connor should have the puck as much as possible on his stick, especially through the neutral zone, but last night he seemed to force plays so that he could get McDavid the puck, which lead to extra stickhandling which lead to turnovers. I want him to shoot the puck more, Yak is at his best when he’s a volume shooter and last night he gave up shooting opportunities while looking for passing lanes, can’t do that. It’s good that he wants McDavid to have the puck but he’ll help McDavid even more if he gets his shot off when given the chance.

  87. Lowetide says:

    godot10: And that strategy got the Oilers to 28th and 30th in the last two years, until Nelson took over and went to one protected line only (Roy-Yakupov).

    Draisaiti is -5 in the AHL.When he is a plus player, and scoring at 0.8 PPG in the AHL (over a 20 game stretch), that is when he might be able to help.

    Draisaitl has to learn how to play without the puck.This was something he has never had to learn before, because he always had the puck. When he is a plus player for 20 games in the AHL, then he will have demonstrated that he has reached minimum competency without the puck to be ready for the NHL.

    They have to find a third line. have to. And plus minus, surely, isn’t an argument.

  88. kinger_OIL says:

    Lowetide: And I missed it because of a pissy mood. Sincere apologies, Ducey.

    – Nice work Boys : keeping it classy

    – It’s certainly not fun to feel things are personalized, or feel disrespected for posting on a favorite blog with a great cast of characters for the most part! Some people just stop posting.

    – Ducey your an entertaining poster to boot.

  89. Магия 10 says:

    Lowetide: They have to find a third line. have to. And plus minus, surely, isn’t an argument.

    I don’t recall it but what’s his trend in CF%?

  90. G Money says:

    Bank Shot: How can you picture that?
    The Oilers are bottom 5 in basically every statistical category outside of goaltending.
    5 on 5 corsi. 27th Putrid.
    4 on 5 shots againt. 28th Brutal
    5 on 4 shots for. 24th Weaksauce.
    They are closer to contending for another first overall than they are to making the playoffs.
    I think the core needs a shake up. They need to balance the roster. Send out one of the high end offence only forwards for a D-man.

    I deconstructed the entire seasons schedule based on toughness. I looked at the season as 6 10-game and 2 11-game segments, then rated them on strength of opponents.

    The first 10 game segment is the hardest of the season – and it’s not close.

    The second 10 game segment is the second hardest of the season.

    After that, every segment is easier than the first two – with one exception, which is comparable to the second segment.

    Add to that (as others have noted) the roster turnover, new coaching, and now injuries, and you should *expect* the Oilers to struggle.

    Based on the Oilers being a mid-pack bubble team, when I assessed the schedule, I had the Oilers picking up 8 points in the first 10 games *at best*.

    So yeah, I can picture it. None of what has transpired so far is surprising, or inconsistent with being a bubble team.

  91. Johnny skid says:

    PhrankLee: I have them at 4-15-1 as well. I believe we are on the right track for the first time since 06.

    Chia has a lot of house work to do procuring NHL talent (soon, I hope)

    There is also a need for both culling the herd and phasing out the unnecessary.(Players and Executive)

    This is so true

  92. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: They have to find a third line. have to. And plus minus, surely, isn’t an argument.

    For an elite prospect forward in the AHL, a crude stat like plus/minus is good enough for a broad messy line in the sand. Draisaitl is an elite prospect. He should not be a minus player in the AHL, unless one can point to obvious mitigating factors.

    Draisaitl bleeds goals. Slepysheve doesn’t. Draisaitl will be in the NHL when he stops bleeding goals.

  93. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: They have to find a third line. have to. And plus minus, surely, isn’t an argument.

    They have to find a (fix the) defense first. The Oilers bottom six is not the problem. It is a passable bottome six. All the forwards will look better with a better defense.

  94. G Money says:

    SwedishPoster: Yak certainly has turned a corner but I felt last night he was looking a little too much for McDavid. It’s good that he’s got the mindset to find McDavid, he’s recognized that Connor should have the puck as much as possible on his stick, especially through the neutral zone, but last night he seemed to force plays so that he could get McDavid the puck, which lead to extra stickhandling which lead to turnovers. I want him to shoot the puck more, Yak is at his best when he’s a volume shooter and last night he gave up shooting opportunities while looking for passing lanes, can’t do that.

    A thought on Yak and his development.

    He is now, finally, doing what top 5 picks are supposed to do in the NHL.

    An elite forward drafted out of Jr has all kinds of skills and tools developed playing Jr hockey, and strategies and reflexes for deploying those skills.

    The thing is, many of those tools, will not work as is when transplanted to the NHL. Players have to adapt the tools and develop and enhance their strategies and reflexes.

    They do this by trying and failing and trying again until it starts to click. With some, it happens quickly – as noted above, McDavid’s rate of gain is breathtaking.

    With Yak, when I talk (as I have quite often) about the absolutely botched development path under Eakins, that is what I”m talking about. Under Eakins, Yak was petrified of making a mistake, knowing full well he’d be crucified, demoted, and benched for doing so. Yet it’s absolutely crucial that he be allowed to make those mistakes, otherwise that adaptation of skills never occurs.

    Yak finally – FINALLY – is getting that chance. You can see him trying things, deploying some of the insane skill and creativity he showed in Jr (and his rookie season). A lot of it doesn’t work, but that’s a critical part of the process. When it doesn’t work, he’s going to try it again, but ever so slightly differently, and figure out what works for him at the NHL.

    Thank Gord we got Nelson-then-TMc when we did. Because another half season of Eakins and I suspect Yak’s career would have been done. There’s only so much stalled development a young player can handle before he misses the window altogether.

    And that would have been an incredible crime against that gifted and earnest young man, and a crime against the game of hockey itself.

    Gordspeed, young Yak. You are free of the shackles, and you have the most talented player in thirty years as your new C. SIUTBOTC.

  95. G Money says:

    godot10: For an elite prospect forward in the AHL, a crude stat like plus/minus is good enough for a broad messy line in the sand. Draisaitl is an elite prospect. He should not be a minus player in the AHL, unless one can point to obvious mitigating factors.

    Not in five games it isn’t. That’s a ridiculously small sample for such a coarse statistic. I’d say half a season gets you your first glimmer of validity.

  96. dustrock says:

    G Money: I deconstructed the entire seasons schedule based on toughness. I looked at the season as 6 10-game and 2 11-game segments, then rated them on strength of opponents.The first 10 game segment is the hardest of the season – and it’s not close.The second 10 game segment is the second hardest of the season.After that, every segment is easier than the first two – with one exception, which is comparable to the second segment.Add to that (as others have noted) the roster turnover, new coaching, and now injuries, and you should *expect* the Oilers to struggle.Based on the Oilers being a mid-pack bubble team, when I assessed the schedule, I had the Oilers picking up 8 points in the first 10 games *at best*.So yeah, I can picture it. None of what has transpired so far is surprising, or inconsistent with being a bubble team.

    Exactly. We knew this was going to be a brutal 20 games WITHOUT THE EBERLE INJURY.

    We also thought, if we were going to have to miss Eberle for 20 games, at least it would be the first 20.

    Talbot and Nilsson are great but are learning the system and their d-men’s tendencies and weaknesses.

    The D corps is a jury-rigged mish-mash and half the D roster is new players.

    The F corps is struggling with their top RW gone, plus learning new systems, plus learning chemistry.

    I wouldn’t even be shocked if Chia Pete saw the morass the first 20 games would be and wanted to spare Nurse and Draisaitl that chaos.

    Plus, it’s really a pretty, pretty, pretty tough schedule, isn’t it?

    Take the long way home.

    Does it feel that you life’s become a catastrophe?
    Oh, it has to be for you to grow, boy.
    When you look through the years and see what you could
    have been oh, what might have been,
    if you’d had more time.

  97. Drew says:

    G Money: Not in five games it isn’t.That’s a ridiculously small sample for such a coarse statistic.I’d say half a season gets you your first glimmer of validity.

    Clearly there is no such thing as puck luck??? Sounds like he has been the victim of bad luck?
    I have been saying 40 games will be a good tell on young Mr. Drysaddle. Also believe he will be fine.

  98. russ99 says:

    Lowetide: They have to find a third line. have to. And plus minus, surely, isn’t an argument.

    Completely agree, but I think there are different ideas as to what that should be.

    I’d prefer what we saw the opposition roll out the last two games:

    Chimera – Beagle – Wilson
    Clifford – Shore – Lewis

    I still think we need something like that in order to be a playoff team.

  99. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I actually did write ‘give him clean air’ you must have missed it.

    I thought you were telling me to put my smoke out.

  100. Centre of attention says:

    I was rewatching the game, and Pakarinen deserves a shot with Lander. Shift Purcell over to LW and sit Korpikoski for a game or two.

    That should give Lander a straight shooter and a play maker.

  101. Woodguy says:

    godot10: If one is giving McDavid the clean air, there is NO clean air to give Draisaitl without tanking the season, unless one plays him 8 minutes on the 4th line.

    Yeah there is.

    4th lines.

    McDavid is getting checking lines, RNH is getting power v power and Lander is getting 2nd toughs.

  102. dustrock says:

    Drew: Clearly there is no such thing as puck luck??? I have been saying 40 games will be a good tell on young Mr. Drysaddle. Also believe he will be fine.

    They lost 5-4 to Ontario with Scrivens having, by all accounts, not a great game.

    4-3 L to San Jose.

    6-5 L to San Diego in SO.

    5-0 L to Ontario (this was a terrible, terrible game).

    1-0 W against Grand Rapids.

    Other than the terrible first game against the Ontario Reign, they’ve all been tight games. I didn’t track the individual +/- but I expect much of it is from the 5-0 L.

    Drai – 2 there.

    -2 in the 6-5 L to Gulls.

    -1 against SJ.

  103. G Money says:

    Drew: Clearly there is no such thing as puck luck??? Sounds like he has been the victim of bad luck?
    I have been saying 40 games will be a good tell on young Mr. Drysaddle. Also believe he will be fine.

    Maybe. Not having watched the games, TBH I have no idea if Drai is deserving of the -5 or not. He might be. Or he might not be.

    The comment was mainly about the statistic moreso than Drai.

    The problem with +- is that it is an ‘on ice’ statistic – every player gets dinged with a minus who was on the ice for a goal, whether is was deserved or not. Work has been done showing that a minus (or a plus) is unjustly awarded more than 40% of the time.

    Corsi has exactly the same problem, but with Corsi you get 100+ events in a game, so the error embedded in the statistic washes out really quickly. But even with Corsi, you typically should have 20 games under your belt before you have something reliable. Before that, it’s not exactly ‘meaningless’ (it is telling you something of what happened after all), it’s just not reliable.

    So with +-, the sample sizes are so small that you probably want at least 40 games under your belt before you can have much in the way of reliability – probably more than that.

    Shot attempts, with their inherent large sample sizes, is one way to address that. The other is what David Staples does, something pioneered by Roger Neilson, which is to watch each scoring play and only assign the plus or minus to players that deserved it. Both approaches have value IMO.

  104. John Chambers says:

    godot10: And that strategy got the Oilers to 28th and 30th in the last two years, until Nelson took over and went to one protected line only (Roy-Yakupov).

    Draisaiti is -5 in the AHL.When he is a plus player, and scoring at 0.8 PPG in the AHL (over a 20 game stretch), that is when he might be able to help.

    Draisaitl has to learn how to play without the puck.This was something he has never had to learn before, because he always had the puck. When he is a plus player for 20 games in the AHL, then he will have demonstrated that he has reached minimum competency without the puck to be ready for the NHL.

    I agree with you here.

    There’s a reason there’s a league in between the CHL and NHL. It’s because there’s a major difference between Junior hockey and Pro hockey, and then another major difference between AAA Pro hockey and NHL hockey.

    I’m absolutely certain that Draisaitl (and Nurse, and every other top non-generational talent player) will mature into a complete, and quality player. It’s not an indictment of them that he (or they) are not there yet, and positive that the mistakes are being identified and ironed out in Bakersfield as opposed to under the pressure and scrutiny of the National Hockey League.

  105. Drew says:

    G Money: Maybe.Not having watched the games, TBH I have no idea if Drai is deserving of the -5 or not.He might be.Or he might not be.

    The comment was mainly about the statistic moreso than Drai.

    The problem with +- is that it is an ‘on ice’ statistic – every player gets dinged with a minus who was on the ice for a goal, whether is was deserved or not.Work has been done showing that a minus (or a plus) is unjustly awarded more than 40% of the time.

    Corsi has exactly the same problem, but with Corsi you get 100+ events in a game, so the error embedded in the statistic washes out really quickly.But even with Corsi, you typically should have 20 games under your belt before you have something reliable.Before that, it’s not exactly ‘meaningless’ (it is telling you something of what happened after all), it’s just not reliable.

    So with +-, the sample sizes are so small that you probably want at least 40 games under your belt before you can have much in the way of reliability – probably more than that.

    Shot attempts, with their inherent large sample sizes, is one way to address that.The other is what David Staples does, something pioneered by Roger Neilson, which is to watch each scoring play and only assign the plus or minus to players that deserved it.Both approaches have value IMO.

    I am not a complete fan of the Staples approach (viewer bias) but it seems to generally line up with the more sophisticated stats you and the other power users have been working with. I referenced the latest Staples look at Bakersfield earlier and Dry was doing very well in generating scoring chances.

    I certainly “feel” better knowing that some metric is showing him good even though the counters are not.

  106. godot10 says:

    G Money: Maybe.Not having watched the games, TBH I have no idea if Drai is deserving of the -5 or not.He might be.Or he might not be.

    The comment was mainly about the statistic moreso than Drai.

    The problem with +- is that it is an ‘on ice’ statistic – every player gets dinged with a minus who was on the ice for a goal, whether is was deserved or not.Work has been done showing that a minus (or a plus) is unjustly awarded more than 40% of the time.

    Corsi has exactly the same problem, but with Corsi you get 100+ events in a game, so the error embedded in the statistic washes out really quickly.But even with Corsi, you typically should have 20 games under your belt before you have something reliable.Before that, it’s not exactly ‘meaningless’ (it is telling you something of what happened after all), it’s just not reliable.

    So with +-, the sample sizes are so small that you probably want at least 40 games under your belt before you can have much in the way of reliability – probably more than that.

    Shot attempts, with their inherent large sample sizes, is one way to address that.The other is what David Staples does, something pioneered by Roger Neilson, which is to watch each scoring play and only assign the plus or minus to players that deserved it.Both approaches have value IMO.

    I said the (rough) threshold for Draisaitl should be 0.8 points per game and a plus player over 20 games.

    20 games is not a particularly small sample.

    I am willing to accept mitigating factors for the plus/minus over 20 games if one can identify them.

    An elite prospect should not be a minus player in the AHL over a reasonable period of games. A crude rule of thumb. If they are, they PROBABLY are not ready.

  107. Pouzar says:

    Drew: Staples recent article suggests that Leon is leading the team in generating chances and is not getting the bounces.

    This.

    If anyone here is worried about Leon’s performance. Just stop it. Watch a game or 2.
    He’s doing fine.

  108. Ducey says:

    I wonder if some comparison could be made between Leon and Sam Bennett.

    Bennett has played 7 NHL games. He has 1 A and is -1. His CF is 49% but his Rel Corsi Against is -4.79. That’s some indication his D aint so hot. He has 6 shots – total. His offense aint so hot either.

    That might actually not be far off of what Leon might do now in the NHL. So would that be helping the Oilers? (That’s a rhetorical question for you Flames fans out there)

    However, Bennett is playing 12 minutes a night and is part of what is quickly turning into a shit show in Calgary.

    I don’t know what Leon’s TOI is in the AHL, but it is likely well north of 12 minutes. He has 13 shots. 3 last game.

    Bennett is not thriving, and arguably is not being given the best opportunity to develop at 12 minutes a night. It is going to be tough for the coach to give him more when trade rumours are swirling and the D word (disappointment) is everywhere.

    I’d say Leon is being given a better opportunity to develop. More TOI, all situations, out of the spotlight.

    Now LT might say that they can just send Bennett down. Its true. But now he will have the D word attached to him, may have some confidence issues, and may have trouble earning the trust of his NHL coach when he does get called back up. He also will have a deficit in playing time compared to Leon.

  109. stevezie says:

    The +/- debate is not needed. Drai isn’t scoring.

    The scouting reports I’ve heard arent damning, but they aren’t so good we overlook those boxscores, are they?

  110. Caramel Obvious says:

    The roster is what the roster is. It isn’t getting better through free agency and Nurse will only help so much, and Draisatl is struggling in the AHL (I’m sorry but top five picks should be lighting it up).

    This team needs to find their Jack Johnson, the guy whose reputation exceeds his ability, and trade him for real talent.

    To me that’s Schultz and Yakupov. It isn’t Hall or Eberle.

    And to the poster above who defended Davidson with the “except for being walked by Clifford,” well that is a pretty big except for. NHL quality D do not get beat 1-on-1. They really don’t get beat 1-on-1 by Kyle Clifford.

    Brandon Davidson is no closer to being an NHL D than I am. He’s me without the offensive upside.

  111. Caramel Obvious says:

    100% of guys who can score in the NHL also can score in the AHL. If Draisatl isn’t scoring that is a big, fucking, problem.

    Now it’s only five games. But five turns into ten, and ten into twenty. He needs to score.

  112. Pouzar says:

    Seriously.

    I want to kill puppies right now.

  113. G Money says:

    Pouzar: This.

    If anyone here is worried about Leon’s performance. Just stop it. Watch a game or 2.
    He’s doing fine.

    Good to know. Thanks for the update and for the ongoing insight into whats happening in B’field.

  114. OrangeandBlue says:

    I don’t want to see Draisaitl called up yet because I think he should keep developing his skills as a center at the pro level. He needs those reps because when he gets called up it’ll be as a winger. When an injury occurs and they need him to fill in at center I’d rather have him find his way quicker and hopefully decrease the growing pains.

  115. Drew says:

    Pouzar:
    Seriously.

    I want to kill puppies right now.

    Interesting in 2012 – 2013 AHL season Hall finished the last three games of the season with no points and minus 5!!!! I know this does not mean anything, but it does add to the discussion.

  116. khildahl says:

    Pouzar:

    I want to kill puppies right now.

    What are you, Bookije?

  117. Ducey says:

    Caramel Obvious:
    He’s me without the offensive upside.

    I agree. He is a lot nicer 🙂

  118. Bag of Pucks says:

    GMoney, those in game Corsi charts are awesome.

    Looking at RNH and Hall’s rows, maybe we should nickname them ‘The Big Red Machine?’

    At EV, our alleged #1 line doesn’t piss a drop against the Kings’ best.

    That’s the story of this game, and of the season so far. Against elite opp, they don’t get it done.

    Nuge sucks on the dot but he’s going to win the Selke someday? This is the delusion we live in.

    I guess the excuse du jour is we can’t expect them to score at EV without Ebs. Seriously, when can we expects 1OVs (not on the McDavid line) to be outscorers?

    And why the hell is Letestu not 3C on this club? Does that make sense to anyone?

    Woodguy: Here’s RNH’s corsi vs every King along with his TOI

    They were hard matched against Carter’s line most of their game and owned their soul.

    They had 3 bad shifts against Kopitar for sure, but your post is way off base.

    Milan Lucic11:51 59%
    Tyler Toffoli11:51 59%
    Jeff Carter11:21 53%
    Alec Martinez8:5562%
    Jake Muzzin8:5059%
    Drew Doughty8:39 42%
    Brayden McNabb8:38 46%
    Anze Kopitar3:52 20%
    Andy Andreoff3:22 71%
    Jordan Nolan3:19 63%
    Kyle Clifford3:06 63%
    Tanner Pearson3:04 0%
    Dustin Brown2:53 0%
    Christian Ehrhoff2:27 100%
    Jamie McBain2:21 100%
    Trevor Lewis2:02 100%
    Marian Gaborik1:44 100%
    Nick Shore1:20 100%

    He killed everyone except Koptiar’s line, Doughty-McNabb when they were on w/ Kopitar.

    RNH has been getting it done against everyone.

    Don’t lose your shit over 3 bad shifts and create a narrative.

    I wanted to post my reply to this exchange in last night’s thread here as I do think it’s an important illustration of how soft data (i.e. predictive) is actually starting to trump hard data (i.e. results) in the perceptions of some. The end result is that rather than clarifying conclusions, what the data does is obfuscate.

    In the above exchange, I’m making an exceedingly simple point. The RNH/Hall/Klink line was outscored by the Carter line at EV. This as evidenced by the results data. Carter’s line scored against them at EV. RNH line did not score at EV, at all. Hence, Nuge and Hall own -1’s for the night while Carter and co. own a shiny +1 for their night’s work. In a nutshell, this is what ‘outscoring’ means. It’s not about winning the corsi battle, it’s about the currency that truly matters – goals, and the results of one line compared to another.

    Note how the soft data leads WG to make some fairly hyperbolic conclusions. ‘Owned their soul’ is my particular favourite though “He killed everyone’ isn’t far behind.

    Getting outscored 1-nil by the line you’re matched up against is not ‘killing it’ or ‘getting it done’ imo. The final results are the most important measure of that.

    I’m reaching a hypothesis that Hall and RNH get consistently outscored by the elite competition in this league (i.e. good players on good teams). This hypothesis has been argued against in the past using the soft data (corsi) as the platform, but I suspect if we look at the actual hard data (i.e. goals for/against the opp’s top line), we’ll see that in fact, Hall and Nuge, feast on softer opps/teams which is a direct contributor to the local team getting owned on the scoresheet by the tougher teams/comps.

    I’ll try to quickly post these results after each game so we can see how our elite players did from a true ‘outscoring’ perspective. In fact, the hypothesis seems so obvious, our top players get consistently outscored by the opposition’s best, hence the W/L record!, I’m amazed when posters argue the opposite.

    Our guys rock! Who cares about the scoresheet. Look at that corsi! Future Selke winner. etc.

    Really, cos by my eye, it looked pretty easy for Carter to wallpaper Nuge on the boards to retain possession and ultimately score that first goal. Results matter.

  119. stevezie says:

    Caramel Obvious: He’s me without the offensive upside.

    Well played.

    Pouzar: anyone here is worried about Leon’s performance. Just stop it. Watch a game or 2.
    He’s doing fine.

    Speaking for myself, i am not worried. It’s five games. But “not worried” is still a ways from “confident in a call up.”

    Has he been so good we should overlook the weak by any standard boxcars? Honest question.

  120. Магия 10 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    GMoney, those in game Corsi charts are awesome.

    Looking at RNH and Hall’s rows, maybe we should nickname them ‘The Big Red Machine?’

    At EV, our alleged #1 line doesn’t piss a drop against the Kings’ best.

    That’s the story of this game, and of the season so far. Against elite opp, they don’t get it done.

    Nuge sucks on the dot but he’s going to win the Selke someday? This is the delusion we live in.

    I guess the excuse du jour is we can’t expect them to score at EV without Ebs. Seriously, when can we expects 1OVs (not on the McDavid line) to be outscorers?

    And why the hell is Letestu not 3C on this club? Does that make sense to anyone?

    I wanted to post my reply to this exchange in last night’s thread here as I do think it’s an important illustration of how soft data (i.e. predictive) is actually starting to trump hard data (i.e. results) in the perceptions of some. The end result is that rather than clarifying conclusions, what the data does is obfuscate.

    In the above exchange, I’m making an exceedingly simple point. The RNH/Hall/Klink line was outscored bythe Carter line at EV. This as evidenced by the results data. Carter’s line scored against them at EV. RNH line did not score at EV, at all. Hence, Nuge and Hall own -1’s for the night while Carter and co. own a shiny +1 for their night’s work. In a nutshell, this is what ‘outscoring’ means. It’s not about winning the corsi battle, it’s about the currency that truly matters – goals, and the results of one line compared to another.

    Note how the soft data leads WG to make some fairly hyperbolic conclusions. ‘Owned their soul’ is my particular favourite though “He killed everyohe’ isn’t far behind.

    Getting outscored 1-nil by the line you’re matched up against is not ‘killing it’ or ‘getting it done’ imo. The final results are the most important measure of that.

    I’m reaching a hypothesis that Hall and RNH get consistently outscored by the elite competition in this league (i.e. good players on good teams). This hypothesis has been argued against in the past using the soft data (corsi) as the platform, but I suspect if we look at the actual hard data (i.e. goals for/against the opp’s top line), we’ll see that in fact, Hall and Nuge, feast on softer opps/teams which is a direct contributor to the local team getting owned on the scoresheet by the tougher teams/comps.

    I’ll try to quickly post these results after each game so we can see how our elite players did from a true ‘outscoring’ perspective. In fact, the hypothesis seems so obvious, our top players get consistently outscored by the opposition’s best, hence the W/L record!, I’m amazed when posters argue the opposite.

    Our guys rock! Who cares about the scoresheet. Look at that corsi! Future Selke winner. etc.

    Really, cos by my eye, it looked pretty easy for Carter to wallpaper Nuge on the boards to retain possession and ultimately score that first goal. Results matter.

    Ya got two seasons of goals you can draw firm conclusions. That’s what hard data is for.

    Ya want to see if 20 games is confirming an apparent changes. That’s what the soft data is for.

    Sample sizes of one are perfect for narrative though.

    Thinking about sample size can save the lives of a few straw men.

  121. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    stevezie: Well played.

    Speaking for myself, i am not worried. It’s five games. But “not worried” is still a ways from “confident in a call up.”

    Has he been so good we should overlook the weak by any standard boxcars? Honest question.

    That’s where I stand.

    I’ve been one of the people shouting “DON’T LOOK TO LEON” for the past few days. I’ve been ocasionally over-grumpy in doing so, as discussed above.

    HOWEVER

    Don’t take that to believe I’m not a fan of the guy. When he’s on his game he’s an absolute favorite of mine. I wanted to pick him over Bennett and I stand by that to this day.

    Here’s a fun list to break down how I feel about the guy:

    1) I think he’s a guy who is used to seeing results.
    2) I think poor results despite positive underlying numbers last year was really hard on him.
    3) I think poor results despite positive underlying numbers in the minors currently is really hard on him
    4) I don’t think putting him in the NHL, especially on a line with Lander, will help that situation

    Thus

    5) It’s best for him, and for us long term, to let him sort this out in the AHL. THE MOMENT he proves he’s good enough to dominate the AHL we call him up, and never look back. I will accept any 20 game stretch of 0.8 ppg or more as proof of such.

  122. Woodguy says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    , it’s about the currency that truly matters – goals, and the results of one line compared to another.

    Oh, RNH has to stop pucks now. I get it.

    Seriously, you ask them to win the shot attempt battle and they will win the goal battle.

    Why didn’t they last year?

    Let’s have a look at RNH who you deride so much.

    RNH in 14/15

    5v5 CF 50%
    -Ok, played the toughs and played them to a draw

    5v5 ON SH% 9.97%
    -Hey good. They team scores at almost a 10% clip when he’s on the ice. Love the player

    5v5 ON SV% .890
    -I think I see the problem. Putrid goaltending. Just simply awful and it sewers all the good work.

    So his PDO was .990 and his GF% was 46.9%. That’s makes sense.

    This year his ONSH% is 7.46% and SV% is .901so his PDO is even worse as this point at .976 and his CF% is 41.7%

    His CF% is 50.9% so as his PDO comes back to (both SH% and SV% will improve) 1000, so will his GF%

    These things have been established years and years ago. Why do we have to keep pointing this out?

    You can’t use game by game goals as a running tally because they are too infrequent to use as a means for keeping score on how a player is doing.

    Like McLellan and all the other coaches say:

    “We didn’t get the result we wanted, but we liked the process”

    This is me analyzing the process.

    You cannot analyze results until the sample gets much bigger so you analyze the process along the way.

    You shit talking RNH means you don’t understand the process of how good results are attained, and you can’t see that he plays the best of the best every night.

    Note how the soft data leads WG to make some fairly hyperbolic conclusions. ‘Owned their soul’ is my particular favourite though “He killed everyohe’ isn’t far behind.

    A fan isn’t allowed to be hyperbolic about his favorite team?

    Why?

    No one pays me to write I’ll cheer as much as I fucking want to.

  123. khildahl says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    So Jeff Carter scoring a lucky goal off a rebound means (two thirds of) the Oilers top line can’t get the job done at EV?

    Perhaps the their perceived inability to generate scoring chances is related to the fact that they’re essentially playing 3-on-5 in the offensive zone on account of the blue being incapable of contributing.

  124. Магия 10 says:

    Woodguy: it looked pretty easy for Carter to wallpaper Nuge on the boards to retain possession and ultimately score that first goal.

    ~ Woodguy, Nice that he’s showing you how to project utter domination from samples sizes of ONE? ~

  125. Woodguy says:

    Магия 10,

    Thinking about sample size can save the lives of a few straw men.

    Damn.

    My answer should have been:

    WON’T ANYONE THINK OF THE STRAWMEN!?!?!?!??!?!

  126. Магия 10 says:

    Woodguy:
    Магия 10,

    Thinking about sample size can save the lives of a few straw men.

    Damn.

    My answer should have been:

    WON’T ANYONE THINK OF THE STRAWMEN!?!?!?!??!?!

    How about a little fire, Strawman? That never ends well.

  127. DBO says:

    We are some sensitive today folks. Guess it comes from the belief, albeit small, that we should be much better. We all know the flaws of this team, and it seems like management does as well. I believe that that when Eberle returns you may see some player movement. I feel that they don’t believe we have the depth to run the kind of 4 line game they want with this bunch. And I also truly believe that they want Draisatl at centre. In order to have 2 lines get “clean air” as LT puts it, then we need a 4th line that plays in the black hole.

    Hall-Nuge-Eberle
    Pou-McD-Yak
    Lander-Draisatl-Purcell
    Hendricks-Letestu-Korpikoski

    Sekera-Fayne
    Klefbom-Reinhart
    Nurse-Schultz

    Nurse needs to be the defensive one on his line, otherwise he will riverboat it along side Schultz. The other two can play against anyone and the Nurse d pairing gets cherry minutes.

  128. Drew says:

    Магия 10: ~ Woodguy, Nice that he’s showing you how to project utter domination from samples sizes of ONE? ~

    LOL, seriously wonderful comment, well done sir. Feels like HF boards 10 years ago and Igor is losing his mind.

  129. Bag of Pucks says:

    Woodguy:
    Bag of Pucks,

    , it’s about the currency that truly matters – goals, and the results of one line compared to another.

    Oh, RNH has to stop pucks now.I get it.

    Seriously, you ask them to win the shot attempt battle and they will win the goal battle.

    Why didn’t they last year?

    Let’s have a look at RNH who you deride so much.

    RNH in 14/15

    5v5 CF 50%
    -Ok, played the toughs and played them to a draw

    5v5 ON SH% 9.97%
    -Hey good.They team scores at almost a 10% clip when he’s on the ice.Love the player

    5v5 ON SV% .890
    -I think I see the problem.Putrid goaltending.Just simply awful and it sewers all the good work.

    So his PDO was .990 and his GF% was 46.9%.That’s makes sense.

    This year his ONSH% is 7.46% and SV% is .901so his PDO is even worse as this point at .976 and his CF% is 41.7%

    His CF% is 50.9% so as his PDO comes back to (both SH% and SV% will improve) 1000, so will his GF%

    These things have been established years and years ago.Why do we have to keep pointing this out?

    You can’t use game by game goals as a running tally because they are too infrequent to use as a means for keeping score on how a player is doing.

    Like McLellan and all the other coaches say:

    “We didn’t get the result we wanted, but we liked the process”

    This is me analyzing the process.

    You cannot analyze results until the sample gets much bigger so you analyze the process along the way.

    You shit talking RNH means you don’t understand the process of how good results are attained, and you can’t see that he plays the best of the best every night.

    Note how the soft data leads WG to make some fairly hyperbolic conclusions. ‘Owned their soul’ is my particular favourite though “He killed everyohe’ isn’t far behind.

    A fan isn’t allowed to be hyperbolic about his favorite team?

    Why?

    No one pays me to write I’ll cheer as much as I fucking want to.

    Someone should let the NHL know to stop keeping score with goals. It’s so unfair to the players, what with the small sample sizes and all.

  130. khildahl says:

    Bag of Pucks: Someone should let the NHL know to stop keeping score with goals. It’s so unfair to the players, what with the small sample sizes and all.

    Well, they already only count the ones they feel like.

  131. Магия 10 says:

    Bag of Pucks:

    Actually they should stop reporting goals entirely. Too soft. The only thing that matters is wins.

  132. Bag of Pucks says:

    khildahl: Well, they already only count the ones they feel like.

    Well done.

  133. Bag of Pucks says:

    Магия 10: Actually they should stop reporting goals entirely. Too soft. The only thing that matters is wins.

    Wins = Eyeglow x Effort / Luck ?

  134. stevezie says:

    I can’t tell if WG is touchy lately or if people are picking scraps with him lately. Look forward to G’s chart sorting it out.

    Unrelated note: heading to Scotland for an extended stay on Thursday. Any of you scotch masters want anything sent to you? I have no idea if the good stuff is hard to come by but if having a man in Glasgow is useful, I’ll be there.

  135. Магия 10 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Wins = Eyeglow x Effort / Luck ?

    The line from goals to wins is fool proof. But any narrative to explain where the small set of goals comes from can benefit from some fact checking. 20 games of shot data with location data is a good litmus test. Hardly the whole story but dispels a lot of eyeglow and sideburns.

  136. Bootstrap Effexor says:

    There’s the entire problem since we drafted CMD. Mustarding up some hyperbole about this team is like shooting fish on a crushed ice gurney. It’s almost like there’s nothing left to say at all.

    The word is of such an essence it almost serves as a hasty, evacuation-in-progress wedding vow.

    With these hyperboles, I thee wed. Turns to groom. You may now boost your dearly beloved by the tukhus onto the Helivac.

    From where I sit, if you’re not noticing hyperbole nearly everywhere, your macaroni and cheese klaxon-detector needs to pop an ear slug.

  137. delooper says:

    stevezie:
    I can’t tell if WG is touchy lately or if people are picking scraps with him lately. Look forward to G’s chart sorting it out.

    Unrelated note: heading to Scotland for an extended stay on Thursday. Any of you scotch masters want anything sent to you? I have no idea if the good stuff is hard to come by but if having a man in Glasgow is useful, I’ll be there.

    I was going to ask you to bring me back some screech, but then I realized… screech is rum.

  138. Магия 10 says:

    Bootstrap Effexor:
    There’s the entire problem since we drafted CMD.Mustarding up some hyperbole about this team is like shooting fish on a crushed ice gurney.It’s almost like there’s nothing left to say at all.

    The word is of such an essence it almost serves as a hasty, evacuation-in-progress wedding vow.

    With these hyperboles, I thee wed. Turns to groom. You may now boost your dearly beloved by the tukhus onto the Helivac.

    From where I sit, if you’re not noticing hyperbole nearly everywhere, your macaroni and cheese klaxon-detector needs to pop an ear slug.

    Apparently one man’s Hypothesis is another man’s Hyperbole. So here we are adrift in a sea of Hypertheses*

    (* yeah I know another meaning already has that word )

  139. delooper says:

    All you all are getting way too worked up. Sit back and enjoy the show. The GM can’t fix the D right away, so there’s no reinforcements coming. This group has talent and they’re hanging in games late. You couldn’t say that a year ago. Be happy with what you have, otherwise CMD might get a case of Oiler Shoulder and you’ll have to hide your head under your pillow for the rest of the season.

  140. Drew says:

    delooper: I was going to ask you to bring me back some screech, but then I realized… screech is rum.

    and not all that bad, gets a bad rep. not a premium by any stretch but OK. I’ll try to do a fenwick for it.

  141. Clay says:

    So TMc confirming Reinhart is out for Minny (but close to returning).

    A bottom pair of Ference and Davidson. On the road.

    Hoooboy.

  142. G Money says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    I’ll leave the arguments for others. I’ll make two points, one repeating from last thread:

    1 – I don’t think Eberle’s absence is an ‘excuse’ when the Hall/Nuge line keeps going up against the best the other team has to offer.

    If “all” that line was able to do when healthy was saw off against the top lines of the best teams, we should be happy. That it’s the case that 2/3rds of that line are unable to go even up head-to-head against full lines of the best teams is no shame. The fact that they’ve been damn close to sawing off is goddamn impressive in my books.

    Equally relevant is that the same 2/3rds of a line “owned the souls” of e.g. the Monahan line in Calgary. That’s also an important measure – they’re so good that at 2/3rds strength they’re better than the full top line of a lousy team. McDavid’s line also owned the Monahan line’s souls, a fact that sets this team up nicely for a long long time.

    2 – It’s 2015. Are we still making the argument “goals are all that matters”? That was discredited a decade ago. It is a fallback on par with “watch the game, nerd”.

    Goals are a perfect descriptor of the result of a game, but a poor measure of the actual flow of a game, and an absolutely terrible predictor of the future.

    Goals against are even moreso a terrible measure of a forward line, which is heavily dependent on the associated defensemen and goalie. The Nuge line isn’t just going up against the Kopitar or Carter line – it’s going up heavily against Doughty and Muzzin too, while the other teams lines are … not.

    That goals have little predictive value is known. We understand this. You can see some reflection of this pretty much every game. It has been demonstrated ad nauseam by 100s of different people.

    You generally make cogent arguments – is this really one you’re going to settle on?

  143. Halfwise says:

    Clay:
    So TMc confirming Reinhart is out for Minny (but close to returning).

    A bottom pair of Ference and Davidson.On the road.

    Hoooboy.

    Maybe if TFCAF plays only once a week he isn’t a complete disaster, compared to playing in consecutive games (even if they aren’t back to back).

  144. Adam Wu says:

    Goals are a pretty good indicator of who won the games in the past.

    But an even better indicator of who won the games is WINS.

    As an indicator of who will win, or will more likely win, the games in the future, goals is a lousy indicator.

  145. dustrock says:

    G Money,

    All true, G. The only issue I have with Hall & RNH is the number (or lack thereof) of high quality scoring chances 5v5. They can saw off in terms of possession because they’re both great skaters and pretty good (Hall) to great (RNH) positionally, but I’d like to see the data on “high quality scoring chances” or whatever (sorry can’t recall the terminology).

    I still see RNH and Hall as mostly perimeter players in the “halfcourt offence” and I’m not sure how different it would be if they were facing 2nd line competition.

  146. Halfwise says:

    Woodguy,

    Bag of Pucks,

    I side with Woodguy in your debate for a couple of reasons:
    1. WG uses actual evidence, not polemic.
    2. I won’t sacrifice my sanity on the altar of whether this recently hopeless team won last night or not. I’d rather have an indicator of whether there is any reason for hope. If there’s no reason for hope, there’s no sense investing any emotional energy in the team. Last year, I checked out as a fan, for just this reason.

    Woodguy’s analysis is about whether they are on the right track. Otherwise we’re no better than last year’s Flames fans, which will make us no happier than this year’s Flames fans.

  147. Woodguy says:

    Bag of Pucks: Someone should let the NHL know to stop keeping score with goals. It’s so unfair to the players, what with the small sample sizes and all.

    How can anyone who has read here and posted here as long as you have just not get it?

  148. delooper says:

    Halfwise:

    Otherwise we’re no better than last year’s Flames fans, which will make us no happier than this year’s Flames fans.

    Now that’s crazy talk. Oilers fans come from the good town of Edmonton. Where everyone is hard-working and industrious. Flames fans come from a city called Calgary. Technically it’s not clear why Calgary is even in Canada. And it’s full of white-collar criminals. Presumably there are some good people in Calgary. I think I heard of one that frequents this forum…

  149. hags9k says:

    We all know the defence is bad.

    We’d all like to develop Nurse and Leon slowly in the AHL. That is easy if you are winning games and/or you are sure that they aren’t better than what you have in the big leagues. Unfortunately though we aren’t winning and we aren’t sure, especially in Darnell’s case.

    It comes down to what is an NHL season worth? After 9 years out of relevancy, is it acceptable to risk less than optimal results at the big league level in order to bring these two along slowly? I say no. Hell no, you play your best, even if they are 18. And Darnell is not 18, he’s ready enough. Many have pointed out the Pietrangelo development comp. The clock is ticking on McDavid’s ELC and we just can’t continue to piss real NHL points away in the name of proper prospect development. The red wings can let them over ripen because they win! We still suck! Maybe things will be different in 5 years when hopefully the path between a 20 yr old #7 overall pick and the top pairing is blocked by more than a wet paper bag. He’ll be to the top pair like shit through a goose!

    Nurse can help now, make the call. The NHL is not a development league, but an organization as weak as this one cannot afford to let a season slide away while icing less than their best. Win first.

  150. G Money says:

    dustrock,

    Yes, I agree. They have been struggling to fight through from the perimeter, and look a little less impressive by chance measures than by shot measures.

    Though I thought they were extremely dangerous and had a ton of chances in close in the third period against LA. I also think that this is where they miss Eberle, who is much more dangerous than Klinkhammer is, despite his great effort so far.

    If you look at the post-game NerdAlert page, you’ll see three head to head charts: CF, DFF, and TOI.

    DFF is my version of ‘scoring chances’, which weights unblocked shots by shot type and distance. It is comparable to a blend of war on ice’s high/medium/low scoring chances, or to DTMAboutHeart’s expected goals (xG).

    DFF is intended to expose exactly this situation – to separate the perimeter players from the dangerous players (on both sides of the ice).

    So a player who looks even up via Corsi or Fenwick, but who is regularly pinned to the outside in the o zone but is on the ice for many deadly chances in the d zone will have a much lower than even DFF number.

  151. G Money says:

    Halfwise: Otherwise we’re no better than last year’s Flames fans, which will make us no happier than this year’s Flames fans.

    This is a beautiful line in a thread filled with beautiful lines! (h/t to Caramel Obvious‘s offensive upside and Магия 10‘s straw men).

  152. Woodguy says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    So when Jeff Carter’s line were over 55% vs. ARI including 55% against OEL and 57% against Hanzel you’re going to bitch him out because he was outscored 1-0?

    I guess in your world Jeff Carter is a failure also because while he was 75% CF against Klaus Dahlbeck he’s a loser because the Yotes scored against Carter with Dahlbeck on the ice against Carter.

    Do you where a neck brace?

    You’ll need it from all the whiplash every night whipping players around from “awful” to “great” based on the game that night.

  153. Halfwise says:

    G Money: This is a beautiful line in a thread filled with beautiful lines!(h/t to Caramel Obvious‘s offensive upside and Магия 10‘s straw men).

    Thank you for your kind words.

  154. Bag of Pucks says:

    Tell you what, I’m probably bitchy cos I’m way too frackin’ busy at work right now and don’t get to read nor post here nearly as often as I like!

    There’s been some good input here today that’s led me to consider at looking at two years of historic goal data first before I start to foist some small sample per game data in your general directions.

    Guess I’m really just getting SO tired of reading how great our corsi core is while they get owned on the scoresheet every night. At some point, it would be great if those ‘predictive’ values actually turned into consistent hard results against the tough comps. Hard not to suspect that we’re winning the perimeter/shots/corsi battle at the expense of losing the war.

    The real bitch of it is, these players are always going to have an excuse. G last year was shite. D this year, and forever, has been shite. Fair enough, but here’s a thought guys. Just line up every night and beat the man across from you. Hell that would make a world of difference in my blood pressure and alcohol consumption.

  155. G Money says:

    Bag of Pucks,

    Your frustration is understandable.

    Though to be honest, I thought I was mediocre last year, not shite.

  156. Bag of Pucks says:

    G Money:
    Bag of Pucks,

    Your frustration is understandable.

    Though to be honest, I thought I was mediocre last year, not shite.

    You were not mediocre last year. You were Money! Of course.

  157. delooper says:

    IMO there’s a significant gap between these first-order analytics (corsi, fenwick, etc) and reliable predictions about team success. In that I agree with Bag of Pucks.

    Developing reliable analytics is a noble goal but I feel the analytics-booster crowd sometimes gets stuck in logical traps. Yes, possession is good. But no, it’s not clear possession is a reliable indicator of success. For example, perhaps most winning teams have good measures of possession. That does not mean you can’t be a winning team without good possession numbers. Similarly, teams that become “good” might only get good possession numbers *after* being a winning team for a while. Possession might be a behavioral adaption to help maintain long-term success, rather than a device to *gain* success.

    i.e. you might become a good hockey player by many devices other than being a solid checker. But even very talented offensive players (for example, Messier) eventually become solid two-way players.

  158. ruotsalainen says:

    Woodguy:
    Bag of Pucks,

    So when Jeff Carter’s line were over 55% vs. ARI including 55% against OEL and 57% against Hanzel you’re going to bitch him out because he was outscored 1-0?

    I guess in your world Jeff Carter is a failure also because while he was 75% CF against Klaus Dahlbeck he’s a loser because the Yotes scored against Carter with Dahlbeck on the ice against Carter.

    Do you where a neck brace?

    You’ll need it from all the whiplash every night whipping players around from “awful” to “great” based on the game that night.

    Eye glow and Stanley Cups are all that matters…eesh.

  159. AsiaOil says:

    I have a slightly different take on this and it gets to inevitable emergence of McD as the #1 center on this club. We have the “old core” taking up 18 million of cap space on the top line and soon enough they will not be attracting the toughs. I guess one can say that as they face less stiff opposition they should feast on those guys – but of course – that only lasts until you have to pay McDavid. At that point you have what is essentially an $18 million 2nd line which will simply not work no matter how much you like it. So fine – we have a top line that can play pretty well against tough opposition and beat up on chumps. Is that really what we settle for on a line with TWO #1 overall picks? Really? Plus they need another $6 million guy on that line to really hum?

    The St Louis, Wash & LA games are just the merest hint at what will be required in the playoffs – and I find the old core sorely lacking in terms of their likely ability to play winning playoff hockey. They do not play “hard” as a group (although it’s better this year) and I don’t have much faith that these guy will do anything special if they ever do make the playoffs. Of the guys on the top line I’d say Hall is the only one who is really able to “impose” himself on the opposition – he’s still too one dimensional for me – but I think he could play playoff hockey. RNH I am not so sure about – and if Drai develops as advertised – then he is our 2nd line center since he has the physical element that RNH lacks almost completely. Eberle is a wonderful little player – but again – I’m not sure at all how he will fare in the playoffs as he has no physical element to his game either. The top line is talented but soft – and that should be no surprise – it’s been the Oilers MO for years now.

    In 2 years we could be looking at this for the top 6:

    Pouliot (or similar) McDavid Yak
    Hall Drai xxx (Power Forward)

    TMac has already show a strong preference for more muscle in the top 6 to compliment softer guys and that isn’t changing. It likely means that one or two of the old top line ends up being moved. Hall has the best longterm qualities except that he has not shown the ability to “fit’ with McDavid and that’s an issue. Would not surprise me in the least if two of the old top line end up being moved (plus Shultz) in seperate deals to bring in a top pair RH dman and a top 6 power forward.

    Times they are a changing……

    McDavid has changed everything – nobody on that top line is untouchable.

  160. raventalon40 says:

    I don’t understand how there aren’t already computer chips or GPS tracking devices in the puck that automatically tell you if the puck is past the line or at least the distance past the line is within the error of the diameter of the puck. Survey equipment is definitely accurate enough to determine this within a reasonable error. I’m sure the NHL could figure it out.

  161. godot10 says:

    AsiaOil:
    I have a slightly different take on this and it gets to inevitable emergence of McD as the #1 center on this club. We have the “old core” taking up 18 million of cap space on the top line and soon enough they will not be attracting the toughs. I guess one can say that as they face less stiff opposition they should feast on those guys – but of course – that only lasts until you have to pay McDavid. At that point you have what is essentially an $18 million 2nd line which will simply not work no matter how much you like it. So fine – we have a top line that can play pretty well against tough opposition and beat up on chumps. Is that really what we settle for on a line with TWO #1 overall picks? Really? Plus they need another $6 million guy on that line to really hum?

    The St Louis, Wash & LA games are just the merest hint at what will be required in the playoffs – and I find the old core sorely lacking in terms of their likely ability to play winning playoff hockey. They do not play “hard” as a group (although it’s better this year) and I don’t have much faith that these guy will do anything special if they ever do make the playoffs. Of the guys on the top line I’d say Hall is the only one who is really able to “impose” himself on the opposition – he’s still too one dimensional for me – but I think he could play playoff hockey. RNH I am not so sure about – and if Drai develops as advertised – then he is our 2nd line center since he has the physical element that RNH lacks almost completely. Eberle is a wonderful little player – but again – I’m not sure at all how he will fare in the playoffs as he has no physical element to his game either. The top line is talented but soft – and that should be no surprise – it’s been the Oilers MO for years now.

    In 2 years we could be looking at this for the top 6:

    Pouliot (or similar) McDavid Yak
    Hall Drai xxx (Power Forward)

    TMac has already show a strong preference for more muscle in the top 6 to compliment softer guys and that isn’t changing. It likely means that one or two of the old top line ends up being moved. Hall has the best longterm qualities except that he has not shown the ability to “fit’ with McDavid and that’s an issue. Would not surprise me in the least if two of the old top line end up being moved (plus Shultz)in seperate deals to bring in a top pair RH dman and a top 6 power forward.

    Times they are a changing……

    McDavid has changed everything – nobody on that top line is untouchable.

    Draisaitl is NOT going to be an effective 2nd line centre until McDavid’s 2nd contract, if ever. Draisaitl is magic beans right now. The magic beans look like they will turn into a really nice centre, but the Draisaitl boosters have the cart way before the horse.

    The era of magical thinking ended with McDavid.

    McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins ARE the two centres. Nugent-Hopkins means McDavid does not have to face the toughest competition out of the gate. McDavid will be as big as Toews and Crosby. Nugent-Hopkins is bigger than both Zetterberg and Datsyuk. They are plenty big and tough enough.
    The pair is manna from heaven. Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Don’t over think things. You’ve been dealt a pair of aces. Be happy.

    The wingers will sort out themselves. Those who take home town discounts will stay. Those who don’t will go. Draisaitl is on a perfect timeline to replace one of them as a key contributorwhen the time comes.

    Most of the problems facing big heavy fast teams is the defense, not the forwards. Sekera is here, and Klefbom, Nurse, and Reinhart are being fast-tracked. The key move is to find one mid career established D to go with those 4.

    I would be willing to trade Hall, or Yakupov, or Draisaitl in the deal to try getting that deal.

    My current brainstorm, for next June, since I can’t see San Jose doing it till then…the 2016 1st and Justin Schultz (or Mark Fayne) for Brett Burns and a 2016 2nd round.

  162. raventalon40 says:

    godot10: Draisaitl is NOT going to be an effective 2nd line centre until McDavid’s 2nd contract, if ever. Draisaitl is magic beans right now.The magic beans look like they will turn into a really nice centre, but the Draisaitl boosters have the cart way before thehorse.

    The era of magical thinking ended with McDavid.

    McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins ARE the two centres.Nugent-Hopkins means McDavid does not have to face the toughest competition out of the gate.McDavid will be as big as Toews and Crosby.Nugent-Hopkins is bigger than both Zetterberg and Datsyuk.They are plenty big and tough enough.
    The pair is manna from heaven.Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth.Don’t over think things.You’ve been dealt a pair of aces.Be happy.

    The wingers will sort out themselves.Those who take home town discounts will stay.Those who don’t will go.Draisaitl is on a perfect timeline to replace one of them as a key contributorwhen the time comes.

    Most of the problems facing big heavy fast teams is the defense, not the forwards.Sekera is here, and Klefbom, Nurse, and Reinhart are being fast-tracked.The key move is to find one mid career established D to go with those 4.

    I would be willing to trade Hall, or Yakupov, or Draisaitl in the deal to try getting that deal.

    My current brainstorm, for next June, since I can’t see San Jose doing it till then…the 2016 1st and Justin Schultz (or Mark Fayne) for Brett Burns and a 2016 2nd round.

    San Jose wouldn’t take that deal

  163. godot10 says:

    raventalon40: San Jose wouldn’t take that deal

    San Jose has to decide next summer whether they want to re-sign him, as he will be one year away from UFA status. A top ten pick in the draft plus a short term replacement is a lot for one year of Brett Burns.

    True, they might not make that trade, but if they don’t do well in the playoffs, they may go further towards re-building.

Leave a Reply

Want to join the discussion?
Feel free to contribute!
© Copyright - Lowetide.ca