SILENT SORROW IN EMPTY BOATS

by Lowetide

The Edmonton Oilers are a far different team than they were a year ago, but are they better? The team has more balance—and that is a good thing—but suggesting this team is closer to the playoffs is a tricky case to make. I like Milan Lucic and Adam Larsson, but the Oilers lost Taylor Hall and $4 million in cap room to make this happen. What’s more, the team now has one forward who can push the river, and a plethora of well paid complementary (but effective) offensive wingers and pivots. Put another way, the thing that always made the Chicago Blackhawks special—Patrick Kane on one line and Marian Hossa on another—no longer applies in our city. It is a real concern.

Peter Chiarelli’s Oilers are going to be more physical, win more battles and score more ugly goals than the previous Oilers. Will they score enough? Well, the one thing we know about the Hall Oilers: They could not outscore the defensive mistakes, and Chiarelli is addressing the defense. Damn shame previous management could not get it done, but the future is now. You should expect the addition of a puck-moving defenseman before October.

THE CHIARELLI LIST

  1. Top-pairing RHD (Two-way skills—Adam Larsson)
  2. Find a replacement for Taylor Hall (Milan Lucic)
  3. Second-pairing RHD (Offensive defenseman)
  4. Acquire RHC with some skill
  5. Backup goalie (Jonas Gustavsson)

Lucic is clearly an asset for next season (and beyond), but I do wonder about the team’s ability to post two fantastic offensive lines now—something they could do with Hall. Again, lots of talent, but it might be tempting to run Pouliot-McDavid-Yakupov (a line that worked) and then use Lucic with the Nuge, Eberle, Draisaitl et cetera.

A lot of upset about the Gustavsson signing, for me this is the kind of addition one should expect from a team that likes their young AHL goalie. By this time next year, Brossoit will be the backup (and expansion eligible, I believe).

One final thing: As much as Chiarelli gave back to the pack in the Hall trade, there is balance (finally!) coming into view. If the Oilers can get a puck-moving defender who can play top four minutes without sacrificing the Nuge, we can talk about that balance photo coming out of moth balls.

CHIARELLI’S MISSTEP

Looking back on the week, and examining the back story via Elliotte Friedman’s excellent 30 Thoughts, I think the error was in not getting P.K. Subban. I understand the cap number was fierce, but that doesn’t make it impossible. There would certainly be pressure on the value end—more Brandon Davidson style roster players—but he did a nice job with Patrick Maroon and this Drake Caggiula fellow could fit the description. Opportunity missed, and you can only trade Taylor Hall once. You can tell me the ask was too much, and that may be true, but the trade happened at the eleventh hour, not at five minutes to midnight. For me, we can make an argument that PC pulled the trigger on the Larsson deal too soon.

THE CHIARELLI EXTENDED PLAY LIST

  1. Add a “Pisani” who can mentor, score 15, and play a two-way role up and down the lineup.
  2. Re-stock the shelves via the draft (Puljujarvi and the entire draft)
  3. Improve overall team speed (Puljujarvi)
  4. Offload Lauri Korpikoski (Bought out)
  5. Improve goaltending depth (added Nick Ellis, Gustavsson).
  6. Improve AHL quality (Caggiula, Russell, Ellis, Gustavsson, Fraser).
  7. Cull the LHD herd (have, in fact, added to the LHD group).

The secondary list is basically complete, and it looks like Edmonton has their 14Fs for next season: Lucic, Pouliot, Maroon, Hendricks, McDavid, Nuge, Draisaitl, Letestu, Lander, Eberle, Puljujarvi (not yet signed), Yakupov, Kassian, Pakarinen. I wonder if the team plans on using Nuge in that mentor role. He is a pivot, but Marty Reasoner did a dandy job in the Pisani role for a time. If the Oilers are going to be bringing in a bunch of young wingers (Caggiula, Puljujarvi, Slepyshev, etc), using RNH as a guide is a pretty nice place for them to start. That could happen if Leon develops, but for the coming season I suspect Nuge will be facing tougher competition.

THE ASSETS LIST

  1. Cap space*
  2. Benoit Pouliot
  3. Nail Yakupov
  4. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
  5. Taylor Hall
  6. Jordan Eberle
  7. Mark Fayne
  8. Griffin Reinhart
  9. 2017 1st round selection

Cap space can be used as a real weapon now, offer sheets are in the air. Edmonton stepping away from Jason Demers is a real curio, would love to know what backed them off. I can think of only two things: Demers wants the moon in cap and term, or the Oilers have another (trade) option available to them.

The Oilers do have two areas of depth: LHD and LH wingers. Could the Oilers offload Benoit Pouliot or Nail Yakupov in a deal for a RHD?

reinhart capture dec

John Hoven is a very good source, runs one of the best hockey blogs in captivity and routinely delivers newsworthy items. If you don’t read him regularly, I would suggest following on twitter or bookmarking his site.

Hoven recently wrote about the possibility of Los Angeles making a Brayden McNabb style trade—acquiring a player who is a fringe NHL-player and not yet emerging as a complete player—and specifically mentioned Griffin Reinhart:

  • Hoven: The former fourth-overall pick was traded to Edmonton, where he spent his entire junior career, after failing to crack the Islander’s roster. The expectations were that Reinhart would have a better chance at securing an NHL spot on an Oilers squad in desperate need for defenseman. Instead, he spent the year shuttling back-and-forth between Edmonton and Bakersfield. A team desperate to win, the Oilers’ may look to put Reinhart in play, as they continue to try and find players to shore up their blueline. Source

Anaheim spent zero dollars in free agency yesterday. The Ottawa Senators are jealous!

FREE AGENTS STILL AVAILABLE

Here is a list of players I think Edmonton might be wise to consider signing today. Expect no signings by the way, but there is real value out there.

  1. RD Jason Demers, Dallas Stars. Why did he go unsigned?
  2. R P.A. Parenteau, Toronto Maple Leafs. Scoring W, plug-and-play.
  3. RD Jakub Nakladal, Calgary Flames. Big defender, surprised he is UFA.
  4. R Kris Versteeg, Los Angeles Kings. Small, skilled and gritty.
  5. RD Eric Gryba, Edmonton Oilers. It isn’t over until it is over.
  6. R Justin Fontaine, Minnesota Wild. Under the radar option.
  7. LD Adam Pardy, Edmonton Oilers. He has talent.
  8. R Adam Cracknell, Edmonton Oilers. Big, named Adam.

puljujarvi capture 4

ORIENTATION CAMP

I wrote a rather long item about it yesterday over at Oilers Nation. Among the things that should interest us:

  • Jesse Puljujarvi. RW who recently had knee surgery (minor) so very unlikely he will be seen flying down this ice this week in Jasper.
  • Filip Berglund. RHD who has size and puck moving ability. That is a perfect fit for this organization, and he is 19. The man who will forever be known as the return for Justin Schultz could be a year away from entering the system in North America.
  • Markus Niemelainen. LHD with size and good speed. It will be interesting to see just how fast he is—the shutdown side of his game is promising, but a fast big man is a far more substantial prospect than an average one.
  • Drake Caggiula. He should stand out for his skill at this camp, I think he has a chance to play 40 NHL games this coming season.
  • Jaedon Descheneau is a very skilled (small) scorer who might be looking for an AHL deal. Interesting addition.
  • Tyler Benson will make everyone happy if he can skate around the ice at normal speed. That was the only real downside of that selection.
  • Aapeli Rasanen. My pick for most interesting late pick at the recent draft, Rasanen should stand out for all the skill reasons at this camp.
  • Ethan Bear was noticeable a year ago, we should hear more good things this time, including (hopefully) a contract.
  • Caleb Jones is a player I watched closely at Rexall last season. I felt he had good speed a year ago, he clearly had more skill than implied in the scouting reports.

Finally, I attended the Billy Moores Cup a year ago, here are my notes on the players who return this season:

 

  • D William Lagesson. Taller and bigger than I thought he’d be, wiry kid, smooth skater. I like him.
  • D Caleb Jones. Has a better shot than I’d read, needs to fix the sights though. Mobile player, I think his no fuss style probably fits better in a more traditional setting.
  • D Ethan Bear. One of the players I was looking forward to watching, liked his skating and passing. He was a hair reckless with the puck a time or two and lost a physical battle down low (don’t remember opponent) but it was a nice showing.
  • D John Marino: Showed some nice flashes offensively, good speed and a nice shot. Got involved physically, too. You could see his age being a slight issue, but overall a nice job.
  • F Tyler Vesel. Nice passer, very creative.
  • F Luke Esposito. He was involved a lot. Like a whole lot. Drove to the net, passed well. Showed up offensively.

 

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Oilspill

Henry:
Well Demers is off the table.Strange that Chiarelli couldn’t beat $4.5M over 5 years.Maybe he just wanted to live in Miami over the winter.

Have you looked at what we are already committed to at D? FAYNE/FERENCE alone 7+ mil

Kiltymcbagpipes

digger50,

“What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.”

‘Get over it’ comment is nowhere near as bad as the verbal thrashing I took 6 MONTHS ago suggesting Hall was “overrated” and suggested he should be considered to be moved in the offseason. It was brutal I left the site for a bit but came back and stuck to my guns (not literally). Funny how things ended up though.

Your opinion is always welcome even if it is an unpopular one. I never mean to demean anyone I apologize if it offended you. I like jarring with GMONEY but am literally joking every time I do FTR.

Professor Q

Kiltymcbagpipes,

Was there not a time where there were 3 assistant captains paired with a captain?

Kiltymcbagpipes

Lowetide: Tell them to screw off. This is a place for venting, respectfully.

Absolutely! Just don’t rub in “I told you so’s” mixed with rage and curse words or you will end up in the penalty box. Lol

Kiltymcbagpipes

Too early to talk Captain and assistants? I think team goes different direction than last year with 3 new guys. Hopkins, Eberle and Hendricks are no locks to even be on the roster this time next year. Here’s my guesses:

Captain – McDavid
Assistants – M.Lucic and A.Sekera

Thoughts?

John Chambers

The Queen gambit analogy is a very good one, Godot.

This is a quality thread.

John Chambers

stevezie,

Where trading Hall might’ve been necessary is when you consider the diminished trade values of Nuge, Eberle, and anyone else who might’ve fetched a top-4 D in return.

Everyone around the league can see that Eberle is an elite finisher but not an offense driver. Nuge’s value would’ve yielded Dumba and that just wasn’t satisfactory. I’d be surprised if Pouliot & Reinhart yielded Vatanen, while Barrie or Trouba might’ve come with larger cap hits and cost an Austin +.

Hall was the only player whose trade value could be nearly fully realized. We still lost the trade but Larsson is a superior option to the aforementioned options.

stevezie

digger50,

Good point. But since we’re meta-venting, what bugs me is the bad thinking used to justify this trade and the almost certain inevitability of its backwards proponents feeling justified when the team (almost certainly) improves.

1) Doing nothing was not the only alternative to this trade. I don’t disagree the D needed fixing, but just because we’re out of coolant doesn’t me we needed to kill a drifter and pour his blood into the radiator.
We can only compare it to imaginary options, but I feel good saying this was a bad one. (If you have ever disliked a political decision you, too, feel comfortable making judgments against imagined alternatives. We all do.)

2) Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.
The apologies are perfect demonstrations of this. Losing this trade did not make it possible to sign Lucic, Losing this trade did not result in less injuries next year. Losing this trade did not develop McD, Davidson, Drai et al. another year.

But the Oilers will almost inevitably improve a few points, and people will point and say, “See?”

And all I’ll be able to do is sigh because if they don’t get it now, they probably won’t then.

stevezie

godot10,

That is a very generous was to describe it (though more accurate than most).

Chess involves direct one on one competition. Hockey involves team building; asset management; money, potential, and decline considerations; and simultaneous competition between 30 teams.

It’s different than chess.

But yes, if we must use chess, queen sacrifice is the right analogy.

Woodguy

Jon K: You’ve made a good argument to support the notion that Poile is one of the best trading GMs in the league. He sold high on Jones’ pedigree even though track record was beginning to show he wasn’t cut out to be a top pair high quality competition defender.

Johansen’s value, despite being a lesser offensive player than Hall, is likely similar or greater by virtue of being a centre. He’s not the volume shooter Hall is but he’s arguably a better shooter qualitatively. His release is quite good.

It’s not a popular notion but Larsson is a very valuable piece that fills an immense need. The trade might not have been great value but it’s positive impact will be noticeable as early as this year.

Jones might be able to be a good 1RD, but I don’t know that because he had no track record at it.

His 3RD track record was excellent.

Long way from here to there though.

stevezie

Woodguy,

I’m pretty on board with that too. Really useful distinction.

Woodguy

Pouzar:
Love WG’s defn of Finisher vs Driver. Well done.

Thanks, have a half done post in the hopper from the spring that I might re-visit

Woodguy

Water Fire: The thing with comparing metrics is that there is no benchmark as to who values what as far as trades.

What I do know is that Hamilton and Jones are more offensive, and offense defines cost usually in the NHL.

I think it is fair to say Larsson fell off his draft pedigree and his early career has not been regarded as stellar, and that is an opinion based on following hockey. I think GM opinions are what matter.

I think it’s fair to say Hamilton was highly regarded, as Jones, and both came into the league and maintained that regard, where as Larsson was getting benched, demoted until this year mainly and not providing much offense.

If Shero called up Chiarelli and said Larsson for Hall, would we expect that deal to get done?

I like Larsson but there is no way to defend this IMO, It’s off and strange. It’s a bad deal and I hope Larsson makes me really like his play by keeping his defense and adding offense to make him a true #1 and Pete does no more stupid deals.

I’m not defending the trade.

I was showing the difference between the two trades in my eyes.

Woodguy

spoiler: And Severson, lol?

I think he’s not that far off Larsson. Worse defensively, better offensively.

Chris

digger50: What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.

Let me point out some Oilers logic that you are buying into. It is okay to lose a trade, significantly, as long as the overall team gets better. And we make the playoffs, long term future be damned.

This logic supports trading one Connor McDavid. We could get a number one defenceman, plus a number one Center,Even if it is an overpay, that’s fine as we really need that number one d and a replacement 1C for Connor. We would certainly reduce our goals against. Move the puck up to the forwards quicker allowing us to score more. If the new Center can score 75% of McDavid’s points that’s great. Our goal differential would get drastically better and playoffs would be a certainty. This Oiler logic supports this move.

Would you support this trade? Would an aging Kopitar and Doughty make the Oilers a better team today over a 19 year old phenom?

I doubt many on this board would support. Why not?

Whatever logic you bring forth would be contrary to the Hall trade.

So it’s really aboutpersonal values and how you want to frame the issue. Everybody is different. I like the incoming players. However, I want management to stop giving away assets for less than full value, a trend that has been going on for years. It’s a valid opinion.

i agree. The Oilers keep losing trades and making bad signing. These bad trades and bad signing are then used as the justification to make more bad trades and bad signing. It’s a rather tortured and horrifying circle of logic. Essentially because we did mind blowingly stupid things in the past we must continue to do mind blowingly stupid things to compensate.

It’s the logic of borrowing oneself out of debt. It does not work. It simply creates a house of cards that will come crashing down to ever more misery.

Water Fire

digger50: What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.

Let me point out some Oilers logic that you are buying into. It is okay to lose a trade, significantly, as long as the overall team gets better. And we make the playoffs, long term future be damned.

This logic supports trading one Connor McDavid. We could get a number one defenceman, plus a number one Center,Even if it is an overpay, that’s fine as we really need that number one d and a replacement 1C for Connor. We would certainly reduce our goals against. Move the puck up to the forwards quicker allowing us to score more. If the new Center can score 75% of McDavid’s points that’s great. Our goal differential would get drastically better and playoffs would be a certainty. This Oiler logic supports this move.

Would you support this trade? Would an aging Kopitar and Doughty make the Oilers a better team today over a 19 year old phenom?

I doubt many on this board would support. Why not?

Whatever logic you bring forth would be contrary to the Hall trade.

So it’s really aboutpersonal values and how you want to frame the issue. Everybody is different. I like the incoming players. However, I want management to stop giving away assets for less than full value, a trend that has been going on for years. It’s a valid opinion.

I support this assessment. This trend has also been at the heart of why the team stays bad. A large number of posters here have said it thousands of times over the years as the Oilers blow their feet off, and it remains true.

spoiler

godot10:
Trading Hall for Larsson was Chiarelli’s gambit. And it was a queen sacrifice, not a pawn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_of_the_Century_(chess)

http://en.chessbase.com/post/the-game-that-shook-the-world

By the way for those who are curious, this is a much easier way to view the game. I recommend going move-by-move.

https://www.chess.com/article/view/bobby-fischers-breakthrough-the-game-of-the-century

Water Fire

Pouzar: I don’t think so Tim.

McDavid is the best player in the NHL right now.
Flame away but I’ll be on the other end in April ’17 sayin I told you so.

McDavid has yet to do, Hall as done. If he stays healthy I’m sure this season will change that.

EDIT: Hall has done

Jon K

Woodguy:
In regards to comparing the Johansen – Jones trade to the Hall – Severson trade, you can make the argument that the Hall-Severson one was actually closer in value in terms of what the players had actually done at the time of the trade.

Johansen was 23, had been playing 1C (and RH) for 2.5 years and had scored 0.80pts/gm over that time.

Jones, 21, has played only 3rd pair in his entire NHL career.Being behind Weber and Ellis on the right side will do that to you.He killed 3RD, but it was 3RD.He also played 2PP and 1PK.

NAS was getting someone who showed he could score at an elite rate as a 1C.
CBJ was buying “a bet on that Jones could play 1RD”

In the EDM-NJD trade:

EDM traded a 24 year old 1LW who’s been playing 1LW while scoring at .91pts/gm (what makes Hall special is that so many of those points are 5v5, which is the toughest to score at)

NJD was trading a 23 year old who had played 1RD for the past two years.He has some of the best defensive metrics among D who play firsts, but he also played with Greene, so the bet is that he could continue to do so without Greene.Larsson plays 1PK and does not play PP.

CBJ’s trade was a bet on a player’s future much, much more than EDM’s was.

You’ve made a good argument to support the notion that Poile is one of the best trading GMs in the league. He sold high on Jones’ pedigree even though track record was beginning to show he wasn’t cut out to be a top pair high quality competition defender.

Johansen’s value, despite being a lesser offensive player than Hall, is likely similar or greater by virtue of being a centre. He’s not the volume shooter Hall is but he’s arguably a better shooter qualitatively. His release is quite good.

It’s not a popular notion but Larsson is a very valuable piece that fills an immense need. The trade might not have been great value but it’s positive impact will be noticeable as early as this year.

sliderule

Taylor Hall was my favourite player from his draft until Connor.
Even though a favorite I could see his flaws..
In his own zone he never got involved.He would stick check and swoop but not engage and take the puck away.In own zone and neutral zone he was prone to careless turnovers.
He tried but he just never understood defensive coverage .You would see him back check hard and then cover no one.
Most of the posters seem to beleive at the draft you take BPA.and if you need to balance the roster you trade for it.The oilers have followed this policy and ended up with all forwards and no defence.It appears the rebalancing is tougher to when you are a 28 place team dealing with real general managers.
The oilers had no choice but to trade one of their forward assets to try to rebalance their roster.
Hall was their choice either for reasoning that he was the one they could less miss with Lucic to come or the only one other teams would take for a desirable right shot D.

digger50

Oilers8833:
First thanks Lowetide for being the voice of reason after all of this. I know I can always come to your blog to get some reasonable perspective on anything Oilers. Second is folks I’m a huge Oilers fan and have been for the better part of my 36 years, and with that said I was as shocked and somewhat disappointed too when Hall was traded for anyone not named Subban or Doughty, but let’s get a little perspective.

So to bitch and moan or personally attack Chia and or Larsson is akin to my 3 year old throwing a fit and calling me names when not getting ice cream with his dinner. While Hall shouldn’t have been the price this was us having to pay the piper for a decade of decay and terrible decisions, especially with the defence ( I’m looking at you Norris potential and trading Petry for peanuts McT). With that said its not like we got back a number 7 defenceman here. Larsson while we can all agree was a monumental cost was what this team sorely needs, someone who can actually play defence and get the puck to our forwards.

It has actually made me sick to my stomach some of the Twitter posts people have continued to post regarding this trade. All it has done is make us look like a bunch of victims and whiners. Perspective is great, since we don’t even know what the final roster for this team will be, since we can all agree that for better or worse Chia isn’t done yet.

So let’s move on, get over it and welcome our two new Oilers with open arms, since last time I checked Lucic and Larsson are both pretty good at this game called hockey. LETS GO OILERS!

What make me angry is folks, particularly Mr Mcbagpipes telling me to “get over it”, inferring my opinion or emotion is not valid.

Let me point out some Oilers logic that you are buying into. It is okay to lose a trade, significantly, as long as the overall team gets better. And we make the playoffs, long term future be damned.

This logic supports trading one Connor McDavid. We could get a number one defenceman, plus a number one Center, Even if it is an overpay, that’s fine as we really need that number one d and a replacement 1C for Connor. We would certainly reduce our goals against. Move the puck up to the forwards quicker allowing us to score more. If the new Center can score 75% of McDavid’s points that’s great. Our goal differential would get drastically better and playoffs would be a certainty. This Oiler logic supports this move.

Would you support this trade? Would an aging Kopitar and Doughty make the Oilers a better team today over a 19 year old phenom?

I doubt many on this board would support. Why not?

Whatever logic you bring forth would be contrary to the Hall trade.

So it’s really about personal values and how you want to frame the issue. Everybody is different. I like the incoming players. However, I want management to stop giving away assets for less than full value, a trend that has been going on for years. It’s a valid opinion.

spoiler

godot10:
Trading Hall for Larsson was Chiarelli’s gambit. And it was a queen sacrifice, not a pawn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_of_the_Century_(chess)

http://en.chessbase.com/post/the-game-that-shook-the-world

I play this game through a few times a year. Have since I was a kid. Just love it.

Water Fire

If we see more seemingly lopsided trades as Hall’s I’ll get over this one, but I will be shocked if it happens.

More Chiarelli lopsided trades don’t count. He’s made two doosies and has a mediocre first pair for his currently best player and a guy who can’t make the league for essentially two firsts. And I like both players but there it is.

There needs to be a three strikes your out trade rule.

Pouzar

Lucic on twitter wearing a McDavid shirt…I mean that is the most awesomest thing EVER!!

https://twitter.com/islandgirl6103/status/749254260630515712

Pouzar

Love WG’s defn of Finisher vs Driver. Well done.

Water Fire

Pescador: Me too, but it’s especially bad because there is only 1 other guy in this town and he’s retired.

Ha!

godot10

Trading Hall for Larsson was Chiarelli’s gambit. And it was a queen sacrifice, not a pawn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_of_the_Century_(chess)

http://en.chessbase.com/post/the-game-that-shook-the-world

Pouzar

Water Fire: McDavid will be better but isn’t yet.

I don’t think so Tim.

McDavid is the best player in the NHL right now.
Flame away but I’ll be on the other end in April ’17 sayin I told you so.

Water Fire

JDï™: That was considered a horrible trade for the Bruins, but now it’s a bench mark for young, RHD value?

As much as the likelihood Nurse gets Benn if he plays decent first pairing this year.

Edit:
Let’s change that to Severson gets Benn, he’s right hand and is more offensive than Larsson same age.

Water Fire

Ca$h-McMoney!:
Water Fire,

Hamilton has more standing?Evidence?

My opinion

Jon K: Do you remember the circumstances of the Hamilton trade? It was widely reported that Sweeney left significant value on the table to basically give Chiarelli the finger. There is zero value in Hamilton as a precedent.

I don’t believe teams make trades to spite former employees.

Water Fire

Woodguy:
In regards to comparing the Johansen – Jones trade to the Hall – Severson trade, you can make the argument that the Hall-Severson one was actually closer in value in terms of what the players had actually done at the time of the trade.

Johansen was 23, had been playing 1C (and RH) for 2.5 years and had scored 0.80pts/gm over that time.

Jones, 21, has played only 3rd pair in his entire NHL career.Being behind Weber and Ellis on the right side will do that to you.He killed 3RD, but it was 3RD.He also played 2PP and 1PK.

NAS was getting someone who showed he could score at an elite rate as a 1C.
CBJ was buying “a bet on that Jones could play 1RD”

In the EDM-NJD trade:

EDM traded a 24 year old 1LW who’s been playing 1LW while scoring at .91pts/gm (what makes Hall special is that so many of those points are 5v5, which is the toughest to score at)

NJD was trading a 23 year old who had played 1RD for the past two years.He has some of the best defensive metrics among D who play firsts, but he also played with Greene, so the bet is that he could continue to do so without Greene.Larsson plays 1PK and does not play PP.

CBJ’s trade was a bet on a player’s future much, much more than EDM’s was.

The thing with comparing metrics is that there is no benchmark as to who values what as far as trades.

What I do know is that Hamilton and Jones are more offensive, and offense defines cost usually in the NHL.

I think it is fair to say Larsson fell off his draft pedigree and his early career has not been regarded as stellar, and that is an opinion based on following hockey. I think GM opinions are what matter.

I think it’s fair to say Hamilton was highly regarded, as Jones, and both came into the league and maintained that regard, where as Larsson was getting benched, demoted until this year mainly and not providing much offense.

If Shero called up Chiarelli and said Larsson for Hall, would we expect that deal to get done?

I like Larsson but there is no way to defend this IMO, It’s off and strange. It’s a bad deal and I hope Larsson makes me really like his play by keeping his defense and adding offense to make him a true #1 and Pete does no more stupid deals.

spoiler

Woodguy: Neither.

I don’t think the Oilers can train Jones on the job at 1C and Hall was way too much to give up for Larsson

And Severson, lol?

stevezie

Bling,

I agree he just says it, but it is pretty accurate. Even if just talking rhD, by my count he is somewhere in the back quarter of the top 20.

Now, it’s probably fair to bump him a few spots for age and contract, but still. He’s a non-elite puckmover who does well on defense and doesn’t produce points. A rich man’s Petry on a good contract.

That’s valuable. But it ain’t Hall.

Which most of us get so I’ll stop shouting.

stevezie

Professor Q,

Ah, but Hall’s per game and best seasons are Better too 😉

(Except goals. Johanson has scored 30. He’s good. Just, you know, not as.)

flyfish1168

Ethan Bear signed

Woodguy

spoiler: Now we know what trade you wanted lol!

Neither. 🙂

I don’t think the Oilers can train Jones on the job at 1RD and Hall was way too much to give up for Larsson

digger50

cc:
LT:I like Milan Lucic and Adam Larsson, but the Oilers lost Taylor Hall and $4 million in cap room to make this happen. What’s more, the team now has one forward who can push the river, and a plethora of well paid complementary (but effective) offensive wingers and pivots. Put another way, the thing that always made the Chicago Blackhawks special—Patrick Kane on one line and Marian Hossa on another—no longer applies in our city.

… I’ve never been a huge fan Lucic but I recognize his ability as a power forward and the impact he can have in a teams line-up.Conversely, I’ve never been a huge Hall fan either (was always in the Sequin camp back then) and seemed to always focus on his turnover ratio verses his positives.

I appreciate how much you liked Hall, how he could “push the river” in your words and how disappointing that you won’t see him find his success here in Oil Country. If Nuge or Ebs go I’ll feel the same way.But I disagree that we don’t have the up-front “Blackhawk Special” in our line-up.

We have McDavid on one line who IMO will put more points on the board then Kane over the next 5 – 10 years and the word ‘Special’ just won’t be suffice.And Nuge is just coming of age,is a wizard with the puck, wins battle you would think he shouldn’t and perhaps will lead the best second line in the NHL.Yes we’re down 4million cap, but have acquired two terrific players, one in a critically need spot the other very likely putting 50+ points on the board along side McDavid.

We’ll all miss Taylor in some ways, but dow the Hall we’ll be a far better team.Chin’s up gentlemen!

“Likely Nuge is on his way out as well, next plan?

Woodguy

Lowetide: So, finishing is an inside the zone word and pushing/driving is getting into the zone?

That’s the way I see it.

We need someone to write a dictionary and everyone to agree to the terms.

HenryDrix

Oilers8833,

I could not agree more. And furthermore, speaking of sick and tired, I am sick and tired of not making the playoffs, of being the laughing stock of the league and of seeng our best offensive players getting hammered with no retribution in either blood or on the power play. Is our team better with Larsson and Lucic or with Hall and Demers. I don’t know for sure, but Chia is trying something different than the failing ways that have gotten us here. I for one have real optimism that these oilers, with one more solid D addition, will be a playoff team. Isn’t that what we all want? I don’t care too much about what the Lucic contract means in 5 yrs, I need playoffs this season, so does the city, the franchise and most importantly, all Oiler fans everywhere.

square_wheels

Lowetide,

Add that to the Lowetide-dictionary.

Chicago’s 2nd driver is Hossa, that guy collects puck in the dzone (good luck taking it away from him) then transports it either with the correct pass or with those great wheels.

Lucic reminds me of the older Hossa, less offence but elite at hauling the puck out of the D and into the O zone.

HenryDrix

Sugar Reijo,

The sum of in far outweighs the sum of out, Imo

Oilers8833

First thanks Lowetide for being the voice of reason after all of this. I know I can always come to your blog to get some reasonable perspective on anything Oilers. Second is folks I’m a huge Oilers fan and have been for the better part of my 36 years, and with that said I was as shocked and somewhat disappointed too when Hall was traded for anyone not named Subban or Doughty, but let’s get a little perspective.

So to bitch and moan or personally attack Chia and or Larsson is akin to my 3 year old throwing a fit and calling me names when not getting ice cream with his dinner. While Hall shouldn’t have been the price this was us having to pay the piper for a decade of decay and terrible decisions, especially with the defence ( I’m looking at you Norris potential and trading Petry for peanuts McT). With that said its not like we got back a number 7 defenceman here. Larsson while we can all agree was a monumental cost was what this team sorely needs, someone who can actually play defence and get the puck to our forwards.

It has actually made me sick to my stomach some of the Twitter posts people have continued to post regarding this trade. All it has done is make us look like a bunch of victims and whiners. Perspective is great, since we don’t even know what the final roster for this team will be, since we can all agree that for better or worse Chia isn’t done yet.

So let’s move on, get over it and welcome our two new Oilers with open arms, since last time I checked Lucic and Larsson are both pretty good at this game called hockey. LETS GO OILERS!

Bling

spoiler: Now we know what trade you wanted lol!

I was going to defend WG and say all Swedish defensemen look the same 😉 but then I realized Severson is from Saskatchewan.

Damn it!

spoiler

Woodguy: In regards to comparing the Johansen – Jones trade to the Hall – Severson trade, you can make the argument that the Hall-Severson one was actually closer in value in terms of what the players had actually done at the time of the trade.

Now we know what trade you wanted lol!

Woodguy

Bling:
Woodguy,

I don’t really like that Lambert article. Taylor Hall is a tremendous player, I agree with that, and I agree that the trade wasn’t Chia’s finest (although he has now had a few duds).

However, for Lambert to say that he would take “several dozen” D before Larsson, without offering any sort of statistical argument one way or another, is a bit strange to me. Some might accuse him of tunnel vision

Lambert has never been one not to employ hyperbole

Woodguy

Lowetide: Seems to me there is parsing here. A finisher is Ovechkin to my mind. Patrick Kane posted 60 assists this year, I think finisher is not the correct word.

Probably just semantics.

Passing the puck well in the ozone to enable a goal is “finishing” as much as a goal is.

Getting the puck to the ozone from the dzone if “driving/offence”