NURSE

I think we can be fairly certain Jacob Trouba isn’t coming to Edmonton using logic, reason and the brain God gave us. If we assume that Peter Chiarelli had Trouba on his wish list this summer, it is also reasonable to suggest the two teams could not find a match.

  • Scott Cullen, Summer 2016—Winnipeg Jets’ Needs: Two top nine forwards, starting goaltender. Source

Winnipeg had a quiet transaction summer, but did draft Patrik Laine to help out that forward group. Edmonton cannot offer a goalie, and any top nine forward (Nugent-Hopkins, Jesse Puljujarvi) ask is likely not of interest to the Oilers. Trouba has one big issue—his next contract is going to be dear—but would be a terrific addition for Edmonton. Winnipeg? The Jets do have room for a substantial LHD after Tobias Enstrom—their lefty depth chart will probably include Mark Stuart and Ben Chariot—but Josh Morrissey may also find his way into the picture.

Lots of verbal on the Al Gore about Darnell Nurse being the ask, but I don’t see it. The Jets, if they are to trade Trouba, will want more of a sure thing and the Oilers are not in a position to provide that player.

NURSE

  • Todd McLellan: “I look at Darnell as a five-tool D-man. His skating ability is exceptional. He’s got a bite and a tenacity to him and there’s more offensively there. We have to let him feel good about that, and defensively, he’ll improve. We have an all-around defenceman who can play any which way. Rugged. Or a skill guy. He has the tools for that.” Source

Nurse’s best NHLE in junior was 23 points, so I question the idea that we are looking at a future 40-point NHL player. I do believe he will improve defensively, but will tell you many people I speak to about this player feel that his 20-year old season in the NHL was a massive warning sign.

Whenever I have a question about a blue liner, I head over to Stats.HockeyAnalysis.com and ask for the 5×5 CorsiRelTM percentage. Here is the answer, with NHL rank for defenders over 400 minutes:

  1. Brandon Davidson 4.1 (NHL rank: No. 19)
  2. Oscar Klefbom 1.9 (NHL rank: No. 51)
  3. Eric Gryba 1.2 (NHL rank: No. 73)
  4. Mark Fayne 0.6 (NHL rank: No. 88)
  5. Andrej Sekera 0.1 (NHL rank: No. 98)
  6. Griffin Reinhart -2.9 (NHL rank: No. 173)
  7. Darnell Nurse -4.8 (NHL rank: No. 200 out of 210 defensemen)

If you read twitter or various online posts today, you will read about how stupid Peter Chiarelli is for not trading Darnell Nurse for Jacob Trouba. I would ask you to use your head for more than a hat rack, and consider what the Winnipeg Jets might want in return for their truly substantial young defenseman. The mind boggles at the idea we can talk ourselves into Nurse for Trouba straight up as a reasonable option, and then lay blame on Chiarelli for not pulling the trigger. I think some people have an agenda, and encourage you to use the brain God gave you. The Jets are going to trade Jacob Trouba on their own time line and will receive a package or player who is a good fit for them. I am a fan of Darnell Nurse’s potential, but in my opinion this isn’t a reasonable trade idea based on needs and current value. If the Oilers are willing to move Ryan Nugent-Hopkins? Different conversation (and I hope they do not make that deal).

TRAINING CAMP NEWS

Whenever possible this year, I am going to refrain from quoting MSM articles for 24 hours. The quote above is from an article that was posted 12 hours ago, so please click on the link and read it (lots in there). If you have time this morning, another Matty article (here) is exactly the kind of reporting Mr. Matheson has been doing for decades.

HAJTS AND WAITS

Always interesting to see the differences between published heights and weights and the current totals on the Oilers site. Jere Sallinen went from 6.0, 183 to 6.0, 198 and Drake Caggiula is 5.09 instead of 5.10. Nothing major but there are times when these stats are wildly inaccurate (Robert Nilsson was NOT 5.11) and it is good to get the real truth.

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  1. Woodguy says:

    If you read twitter or various online posts today, you will read about how stupid Peter Chiarelli is for not trading Darnell Nurse to Jacob Trouba. I would ask you to use your head for more than a hat rack, and consider what the Winnipeg Jets might want in return for their truly substantial young defenseman. The mind boggles at the idea we can talk ourselves into Nurse for Trouba straight up as a reasonable option, and then lay blame on Chiarelli for not pulling the trigger

    One reason for this though, is the past.

    When all the Hamonic stuff was happening, either Freidman or RIshaug mentioned that NYI wanted either Klefbom or Nurse and the Oilers refused. (I’ll try to dig up the link)

    We have history where the Oilers valued Nurse over an established NHL RH Dman who fit their needs.

    Rumoured history, but history non-the-less.

    This doesn’t mean that Chiarelli has been asked for Nurse by WPG and said no, but it does inform the process.

    If Nurse was a reasonable ask for Hamonic, why wouldn’t he be for Trouba, who is a lesser player today than Hamonic?

    I’m not saying that WPG has asked about him, but dismissing it outright isn’t correct either.

  2. Lowetide says:

    I’m not saying that WPG has asked about him, but dismissing it outright isn’t correct either.

    I think the Jets want more of a sure thing, as was the case with the Islanders. Winnipeg needs certainty in a deal for Trouba.

  3. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Sekera.

    Please?

  4. fifthcartel says:

    Woodguy,

    There’s also the Dougie Hamilton trade where it was rumoured they asked for Nurse.

    At this point I don’t think it’s that far off to suggest the Oilers overvalue Nurse, and I think it’s going to hurt them badly.

  5. Rondo says:

    One of the things I liked about Nurse was his competitiveness . This guy is super motivated and will do whatever it takes to get better. I would be surprised if he didn’t have an excellent season this year.

    Oilers now have a much better idea who Trouba is after coaching him for 2 weeks. We will see if they really want him.

  6. Ca$h-McMoney! says:

    Woodguy,

    We never heard that it was Klef or Nurse straight up though. For all we know it was Nurse and what turned into JP.

    We can’t make sweeping judgements about decision makers based on imperfect info.

    My favourite thing right now is the reports guys like Yost release about what executives say they would have offered for Hall.

    My response to that is that those executives should probably be fired, because their job is talent acquisition and they were very interested in acquiring an elite winger, and they failed to make an offer for a guy that the entire world knew was available.

    That, or you know, what they are telling Yost is Bologna. One of the two.

  7. Lowetide says:

    One thread of my post I was hoping we could discuss is the Jets and their needs. Can we argue Nurse is enough? I do not think that is reasonable. And when we bring up Hamilton and Hamonic and others, do we know the totality of those deals? I am asking because my memory on things is different, which is not the same as saying these details do not exist.

  8. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I think the Jets want more of a sure thing, as was the case with the Islanders. Winnipeg needs certainty in a deal for Trouba.

    I don’t disagree with WPG might want a more sure thing, but Nurse was a reported ask for Hamonic.

  9. John Chambers says:

    Rondo,

    Good point.

    I think Morgan Reilly was the most impressive of the NA defensemen. The Leafs have a legit top-pair defender there.

    Trouba played alright but isn’t quite Seth Jones despite being a year older. At $5M or more you are overpaying for a second-pair defender, albeit a young one. I think JT’s ceiling is as a 2-3 guy who can powerplay, but he’s not there yet and that’s the hardest button to button.

  10. Woodguy says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Woodguy,

    We never heard that it was Klef or Nurse straight up though. For all we know it was Nurse and what turned into JP.

    We can’t make sweeping judgements about decision makers based on imperfect info.

    My favourite thing right now is the reports guys like Yost release about what executives say they would have offered for Hall.

    My response to that is that those executives should probably be fired, because their job is talent acquisition and they were very interested in acquiring an elite winger, and they failed to make an offer for a guy that the entire world knew was available.

    That, or you know, what they are telling Yost is Bologna. One of the two.

    Sure, but we still have to go on the information that we have.

    Ignoring some evidence and accepting other evidence when both have the same validity (which is mostly rumour) is wrong.

  11. wheatnoil says:

    Woodguy,

    It’s always tricky with rumours. We were hearing about RNH for Dumba and I was thinking, “Oh God, I’m not sure what MIN can add to make that remotely palatable.” Then McKenzie comes out on the radio and reports that the deal didn’t go anywhere in part because MIN wanted MORE than RNH.

    Before the draft, Twitter exploded with Hall for Hamonic rumours. Thing is, I’ve heard it BOTH reported that Chiarelli turned that down and chose Larsson instead AND that Snow turned down Hall for Hamonic. Both those reports have come at different times from established writers.

    So we hear that Hamonic was available for Nurse and I don’t know what to make of that, WAS that trade on the table? Or was there a piece we don’t know about… like Klefbom AND Nurse. The rumour mill of trades that weren’t appears to be a pit of snake-oil and I don’t know who to trust outside of McKenzie and Friedman. Everyone else seems to be seeing the tail of an elephant and calling it a rope.

  12. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide,

    And when we bring up Hamilton and Hamonic and others, do we know the totality of those deals?

    The totality of the Hamilton deal was a 1st, and 2 2nds.

  13. Woogie63 says:

    Is there another way to a RHD?

    If Winnipeg traded Meyers, won’t that allow Mr. Trouba to play major minutes on the right side?

  14. Rondo says:

    Oilers stunted the growth of Nurse if you compare him to Ekblad at the beginning of the season .

    Ekblad is being developed very carefully. Doesn’t kill penalties, is given easier and more offensive-minded matchups, where possible.

    Nurse was playing 1:44 more even strength then anyone on the team. Very tough assignments.

  15. Woodguy says:

    wheatnoil,

    The rumour mill of trades that weren’t appears to be a pit of snake-oil and I don’t know who to trust outside of McKenzie and Friedman. Everyone else seems to be seeing the tail of an elephant and calling it a rope.

    When it comes to Oiler rumours I discount everyone except: MacKenzie, Freidman, Rishaug and Stauffer.

  16. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy: I don’t disagree with WPG might want a more sure thing, but Nurse was a reported ask for Hamonic.

    I come back to this: Nurse does not have the kind of value that suggests he represents equal return. Do we have a history of NYI or WPG getting fleeced? I do not think we do. Nurse for Trouba is a nice idea and a chance to hammer Chiarelli for the Hall trade all over again, and I get that.

    However, on the face of it I just don’t buy it as a straight exchange, and the devil is in the details.

  17. sliderule says:

    If the oilers make a trade for Trouba they will be sending back a player that will have to be protected in expansion draft.
    Klefbom straight up would probably do it for both teams

  18. wheatnoil says:

    fifthcartel:
    Woodguy,

    There’s also the Dougie Hamilton trade where it was rumoured they asked for Nurse.

    At this point I don’t think it’s that far off to suggest the Oilers overvalue Nurse, and I think it’s going to hurt them badly.

    I suspect the Oilers over-value Nurse. That said, was the rumour of the Hamilton trade straight across for Nurse? My recollection is it was unclear but many of us assumed the ask was Nurse + 1st + two 2nds or something like that.

  19. B S says:

    fifthcartel: There’s also the Dougie Hamilton trade where it was rumoured they asked for Nurse

    Actually, the ask was a first rounder, a second rounder and Nurse IIRC. I sure as @#$% wouldn’t have done that trade either.

    Besides, Nurse was thrown into the deep end as a rookie pro, on the worst defense in the league. You hear of guys like Eckblad and Trouba finding their way early, but they also have a lot better support from the rest of the team. I wouldn’t write Nurse off as a stud dman just yet, let alone a NHL dman. The kid was 20.

  20. B S says:

    Woodguy beat me too it.

  21. John Chambers says:

    I don’t see how in 2 years the Oilers afford McDavid and Drai (post-ELC), Lucic, RNH and Eberle, while simultaneously paying Sek, Larsson, Klef, as well as Davy OR Nurse (assuming one of them get dealt) on their next contracts AND Trouba at $5M.

    Wpg would have to take back long-term salary in the form of Sekara or Eberle and at this time my thought is: no thank you.

  22. wheatnoil says:

    Woodguy:
    wheatnoil,

    The rumour mill of trades that weren’t appears to be a pit of snake-oil and I don’t know who to trust outside of McKenzie and Friedman. Everyone else seems to be seeing the tail of an elephant and calling it a rope.

    When it comes to Oiler rumours I discount everyone except: MacKenzie, Freidman, Rishaug and Stauffer.

    I quibble on Rishaug but agree that we need to heavily consider what Stauffer says especially when it’s in response to a direct rumour floating out there.

  23. B.C.B says:

    Lowetide: I think the Jets want more of a sure thing, as was the case with the Islanders. Winnipeg needs certainty in a deal for Trouba.

    Is Davidson more or less of a sure thing than Nurse? Do you think a package could be built on Davidson + to fill Winnipeg’s needs? What would Davidson + look tike, in your opinion Lt? thanks

  24. Frank the dog says:

    Wouldn’t it be nice if we could work out a moneyball algorithm to digitally analyse the proposals that commenters make?
    One thing I like about Chia is he appears to mostly value his own needs over and above those of the potential trading partner. Not to open an old would, but in his last big trade, were one to hypothically assume that his goal was to move the specified asset for reasons which are unknown to us and are not to be discussed or speculated on, would one be able to make the case that a better asset was available than the one he acquired? Particularly if “everyone” knew that asset was on the table?

  25. speeds says:

    B S: Actually, the ask was a first rounder, a second rounder and Nurse IIRC. I sure as @#$% wouldn’t have done that trade either.

    The rumored ask, including Nurse as part of package, was never specifically written out, that I ever saw – and I looked a fair bit.

    Nurse and picks was mentioned, but I don’t ever recall hearing which picks specifically.

  26. yegCopywriter says:

    A big part of why people get fired up on Twitter is connected media guys like Matty tweeting things like this:

    “OK, Trouba wants out of Wpg and Oilers could use another right-shot D but there’s is no way they are trading left-shot Nurse for him.”

    And this:

    “I’m not saying Edm wouldn’t like right-shot Trouba but don’t think they’d give up left-shot Nurse for him. They like him too much.”

    Assuming he is actually connected, tweets like that make it tough to not question Oilers management.

  27. B S says:

    Lowetide,

    Honestly LT, I wouldn’t trade for Trouba until you know his next contract. His reputed ask is well over his value, and as WG said, even his eventual actual contract is potentially more than he can bring to the team. I think one of the selling points of Larsson was his contract. He may never be more than a #3, but he and Klefbom are only being paid like 2nd pairing anyway, that is going to be important when the star of the show gets his next contract.

  28. pells says:

    Another rumor out there is that they would want JP to skate alongside his countrymen for the next 15 years plus a pick. Obviously I have no idea just speculating. Would anyone do that deal?

  29. wheatnoil says:

    yegCopywriter:
    A big part of why people get fired up on Twitter is connected media guys like Matty tweeting things like this:

    “OK, Trouba wants out of Wpg and Oilers could use another right-shot D but there’s is no way they are trading left-shot Nurse for him.”

    And this:

    “I’m not saying Edm wouldn’t like right-shot Trouba but don’t think they’d give up left-shot Nurse for him. They like him too much.”

    Assuming he is actually connected, tweets like that make it tough to not question Oilers management.

    I think it’s possible to question management’s view of Nurse while also feeling it is unlikely he would be enough to acquire Trouba without a substantial addition.

  30. B S says:

    speeds,

    Again, going of memory, so grain of salt and all. but when Hamilton was traded to Calgary, it was rumoured that Edmonton offered a first and 2 2nds, but Boston wanted Nurse in place of one of the seconds. The truth of course was that Sweeney was never going to trade with Chia anyway, considering he took a crappier deal to begin with.

  31. Yeti says:

    The key thing is likely the relative sense of urgency on the Winnipeg side. How quickly do they want this situation resolved? Can they afford to let it drag on and hope it resolves itself, like the Harmonic situation? I think the kind of deal that gets made depends on Winnipeg’s sense of timing.

  32. Frank the dog says:

    sliderule:
    If the oilers make a trade for Trouba they will be sending back a playerthat will have to be protected in expansion draft.
    Klefbom straight up would probably do it for both teams

    Klefbom’s only downside is his foot problem lingering under the surface. (i.e. potential infection on the skin of his foot, which would surely preclude major minutes going forward)
    Do you think Trouba would be an effective replacement for a “healthy” Klef?
    Tough call.

  33. John Chambers says:

    yegCopywriter,

    It is the imperative of management to protect or augment the perceived value of their players to the broader hockey community, with the media serving as their mouthpiece.

    You don’t hear Oilers (current) management overhyping (Norris potential) or deflating their players. They talk about Nurse’s or Yak’s potential because the players hold tremendous potential that is the coaching staff’s job to unlock.

    If management is too flowery in terms of their assessment of their own players it can be equall my destructive, as we saw with Jultz, which is why I like the current tact of framing to the media what each player CAN be rather that what they are.

    And then once they’re dealt they guy to espouse the plain truth for the masses to hear: “he can’t defend!”

  34. yegCopywriter says:

    wheatnoil,

    For sure. People fill in the blank that Nurse+ was the ask and Chia turned it down, even though that is very unlikely.

  35. B S says:

    pells,

    Only if trouba is on a value contract, then yes absolutely. And I’m honestly not sure what would constitute value at this point, but I wouldn’t want to be paying him much more than Larsson or Klefbom.

  36. fifthcartel says:

    Adding to Nurse would be fine with me, if they want a LHD and more? Sure. The problem is the Oilers seem like they’re going to live and die with Nurse when numerous defensemen become available that fit the Oilers needs.

    Its very possible all of Subban, Hamilton, Trouba, Weber, Jones will have been traded and the Oilers missed out on all of them. Sigh.

  37. Yeti says:

    yegCopywriter: Assuming he is actually connected, tweets like that make it tough to not question Oilers management.

    Assuming that he is connected, and assuming any potential deal would be Nurse +, it would be fairly smart bargaining for the Oil to send out noise that they value Nurse extremely highly and are reluctant to part with him.

    Edit: what John Chambers said.

  38. John Chambers says:

    Frank the dog,

    Klefbom’s 7 X $4.1M contract makes him one of the most attractive trade assets in the NHL. If he’s healthy he’s no worse than a #3 defender on an upward trajectory and extreme value contract.

    The Jets would owe us a first round pick in the exchange, assuming Trouba was willing to sign for $5M or less long-term.

  39. yegCopywriter says:

    John Chambers,

    Agreed on switching the verbal to potential being a smart move. Though Matty’s tweets seemed scarily definitive.

  40. innercitysmytty says:

    John Chambers,

    But you have two years to restructure your salaries if required. I read an article the other day about all of the extensions signed by Florida this summer and they have 10 guys tied up for $55 million per year through 2020. Even with mcdavid and drai deals at 11 and 5 you’d still be in the same ballpark as Florida and our core would be stronger. You’re right that you have to look at the long term cap ramifications, but I think a good GM would make the deal knowing that he has time to restructure his cap if required.

  41. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I come back to this: Nurse does not have the kind of value that suggests he represents equal return. Do we have a history of NYI or WPG getting fleeced? I do not think we do. Nurse for Trouba is a nice idea and a chance to hammer Chiarelli for the Hall trade all over again, and I get that.

    However, on the face of it I just don’t buy it as a straight exchange, and the devil is in the details.

    I agree that the Oilers would have to add to Nurse to make that deal.

    I also think that they are probably not interested in a lesser player +, but would prefer an equal player who fits a need.

  42. speeds says:

    B S:
    speeds,

    Again, going of memory, so grain of salt and all. but when Hamilton was traded to Calgary, it was rumoured that Edmonton offered a first and 2 2nds, but Boston wanted Nurse in place of one of the seconds. The truth of course was that Sweeney was never going to trade with Chia anyway, considering he took a crappier deal to begin with.

    The reports were that BOS wanted Nurse, but as I recall it was not mentioned if that was in addition to the previously discussed picks, or which picks he would replace.

  43. Wild Bill Hunter says:

    Nurse has a couple advantages over Trouba that you completely ignore. First off, he isn’t demanding north of $6M on a resume which shows very little growth over the last two years. Secondly he is draft exempt and will therefore not cost the Oilers a more significant loss to Las Vegas in June.

    If Winnipeg does not trade Trouba before the start of the season and they start losing, Winnipeg’s ask is going to drop, maybe Nurse and possibly a sweetener like Yakupov or a draft choice (not the 1st rounder) becomes something the Jets will have to consider. But if Trouba is really after $7M and expects the same from the Oilers…I would think that we would move on.

  44. Pouzar says:

    Micah Blake McCurdy ‏@IneffectiveMath 16h16 hours ago
    Trouba in the past three years (aged 19,20,21) has already put up top-pair results. Not projected, already.

  45. smellyglove says:

    Winnipeg wants way more than Nurse for Trouba, of that I agree with you Mr. Lt.

    When commentators say the Oilers overvalue Nurse, and I think they do–to their detriment–who do they mean by “Oilers”? Do they mean in the MacT/Lowe>Chiarelli transition phase or now, where arguably Chiarelli is asserting his vision and using his own head to evaluate the team.

    We have have through a transition from generational incompetence having all the power to one where Chiarelli, veteran GM, with track record and major question marks about his trade history, arguably holds the reigns. With a muddle in between those two points in time.

    Despite the trade history, it’s hard to imagine Chiarelli making the Reinhart trade if he is fully informed of the player’s capabilities and the ineptitude of his whisperers. Thus, the point is, when people are cherry picking media quotes about management player evaluations, which “Oilers” are we talking about?

    To the other post–if Winnipeg asks for Jesse Puljujarvi, I drive him to the airport. Hopefully we could throw in a lesser pick to dump a contract going the other way.

  46. LadiesloveSmid says:

    I don’t know how you trade Hall for Larsson and then sink a load of assets into Trouba.

    Play them both 25 minutes a night?

  47. Johnny says:

    I only consider Klef for Trouba because of Kefs injury history and if Trouba is signed for similar $ and term. If Kefbom ends up healthy, that trade could turn out really ugly.

    Sekera ‘plus’ is the obvious one, but I don’t think Sek as the centrepiece gets it done.

    Nurse DOES equate to Nurse + Davidson (expansion draft) so that kills it for me. Keep in mind I am probably unreasonably high on Davidson.

    I just don’t see a deal happening here. And you know Chia has been in in this for a while since he’s been trying to land a RHD since whenever.

    I also think Chia is hoping Reinhart and Nurse each take a step in their development thus upping their value. That is a dangerous game however (see Nail Yakupov)

    I think the Oilers can piece a decent blueline together this year as is.

  48. Lowetide says:

    B.C.B: Is Davidson more or less of a sure thing than Nurse? Do you think a package could be built on Davidson + to fill Winnipeg’s needs? What would Davidson + look tike, in your opinion Lt?thanks

    Yes, I think Davidson gets you started, but the second item in the trade would need to be substantial.

  49. Woodguy says:

    wheatnoil: I quibble on Rishaug but agree that we need to heavily consider what Stauffer says especially when it’s in response to a direct rumour floating out there.

    Yeah but Rishaug seems to be the new Matty when it comes to flying things up the flagpole.

    He had Hall going out for a Dman when no one else did.

    His latest is “Yak for nothing in particular” so we can see how this one plays out.

  50. Woodguy says:

    yegCopywriter:
    A big part of why people get fired up on Twitter is connected media guys like Matty tweeting things like this:

    “OK, Trouba wants out of Wpg and Oilers could use another right-shot D but there’s is no way they are trading left-shot Nurse for him.”

    And this:

    “I’m not saying Edm wouldn’t like right-shot Trouba but don’t think they’d give up left-shot Nurse for him. They like him too much.”

    Assuming he is actually connected, tweets like that make it tough to not question Oilers management.

    This is a good point.

    Still rumour and speculation, but until any deal is actually done, its only rumour and speculation.

  51. sliderule says:

    John Chambers:
    Frank the dog,

    Klefbom’s 7 X $4.1M contract makes him one of the most attractive trade assets in the NHL. If he’s healthy he’s no worse than a #3 defender on an upward trajectory and extreme value contract.

    The Jets would owe us a first round pick in the exchange, assuming Trouba was willing to sign for $5M or less long-term.

    I think Klefbom’s problem with leg infections would more than balance out having to pay Trouba substantially more than Klefbom.
    Trouba will give you a big offensive boost when he is the number one offensive D rather than behind Buff

  52. Woodguy says:

    wheatnoil: I think it’s possible to question management’s view of Nurse while also feeling it is unlikely he would be enough to acquire Trouba without a substantial addition.

    DING!!!

    Thank you.

    I wrote many words without being able to put it as succinctly as that.

  53. Ducey says:

    Agree with you 100% with you on this, LT.

    WPG has 28 other teams to trade with.

  54. Ducey says:

    Doetzel released from camp today

  55. B S says:

    speeds,
    You’re probably right,

    I may have just inferred from the way the reporters phrased it.

  56. B S says:

    Who is Trouba’s agent? As I said I don’t trade for Trouba at all unless he is under contract, because based on how Negotiations have gone so far, If you trade for him, his contract ask goes up again, since his agent has you against the wall.

  57. who says:

    Lowetide:
    One thread of my post I was hoping we could discuss is the Jets and their needs. Can we argue Nurse is enough? I do not think that is reasonable. And when we bring up Hamilton and Hamonic and others, do we know the totality of those deals? I am asking because my memory on things is different, which is not the same as saying these details do not exist.

    Exactly. It makes no sense to speculate on trade possibilities without considering wpgs needs. Those of you considering Eberle as a possible trade chip need to take a look at wpgs depth chart and explain to me why they would want Eberle.
    The nurse for trouba rumors make a lot more sense although I agree Edmonton would have to add something significant. The Jets are thin at lefty d and could possibly use an experienced left winger or center.
    I think whoever gets trouba will probably end up signing him for 5 to 6 million per year. Assuming all this I wonder if the Jets would consider a nurse plus poulliot package.
    I also like the idea of pursuing Myers instead. Think it might take fewer assets to acquire him.

  58. GCW_69 says:

    Lowetide: I think the Jets want more of a sure thing, as was the case with the Islanders. Winnipeg needs certainty in a deal for Trouba.

    I am not sure that fits with what we have been hearing, where Nurse was part of the ask for Hamilton and Harmonic.

    Nurse has cache, or at least he did.

    But I think you are correct on the straight up part. I wonder if you expanded the deal and sent Pouliot with Nurse and took Pavalecs contract you could work a deal?

  59. Woodguy says:

    B S:
    Who is Trouba’s agent? As I said I don’t trade for Trouba at all unless he is under contract, because based on how Negotiations have gone so far, If you trade for him, his contract ask goes up again, since his agent has you against the wall.

    Kurt Overhardt

    Known for RFA’s not signing bridge deals: Kyle Turris, Brandon Dubinsky, Ryan Johansen

    In all 3 of those situations Overhardt got what his client wanted.

    In all 3 cases the player was traded eventually or immediately (Turris)

    Also,

    Since Trouba isn’t under contract there is nothing stopping any team from preliminary negotiating a contract if they think they can swing a trade.

  60. Stelio Kontos says:

    Do we have more pieces we can deal without decimating the team though? Not gonna be Nurse straight across. Trading a 1st round pick as a perennial loser is stupid, even if they look good on paper.

  61. B S says:

    Woodguy,

    and nothing to stop an agent from changing their demands once he has been traded.

  62. JimmyV1965 says:

    Not sure why the Oilers pull the trigger on this deal before the start of the season. The Jets are obviously asking too much or the deal would have been done by now. The only way the Oilers are willing to up their offer is if they get off to a horrible start to the season.

  63. Yeti says:

    JimmyV1965:
    Not sure why the Oilers pull the trigger on this deal before the start of the season.The Jets are obviously asking too much or the deal would have been done by now.The only way the Oilers are willing to up their offer is if they get off to a horrible start to the season.

    Yes, but it’s possible that Winnipeg want the issue resolved, particularly now that things are going public. It’s possible that they would reconsider a deal that they had previously rejected (i.e. Nurse+).

  64. Psyche says:

    Does anyone know if Kurt Overhardt represents any Oiler players?

  65. Woodguy says:

    B S:
    Woodguy,

    and nothing to stop an agent from changing their demands once he has been traded.

    I don’t think that even Overhardt would do that.

    They deal in a closed market and that kind of thing hurts you, not helps.

  66. B S says:

    Woodguy,

    True, just antsy about bringing in a player with delusions of grandeur without knowing what he’s getting payed.

  67. Woodguy says:

    Psyche:
    Does anyone know if Kurt Overhardt represents any Oiler players?

    Only Ference and he doesn’t count anymore.

  68. PunjabiOil says:

    Bob Stauffer once again speaking from the Oilers POV.

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 17m17 minutes ago

    For those asking. I wouldn’t trade either Klefbom or Nurse in a deal for Trouba. Klefbom-Larsson pairing at a good $. Nurse does not need..

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 15m15 minutes ago

    …to be protected for the Expansion draft. Also, what is Trouba worth in terms of contract?

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 3m3 minutes ago

    Peter Chiarelli and Todd McLellan saw Trouba first-hand at World Cup. They know his strengths and limitations. Is he worth say 6 X 5.5M?

    ___________

    Hamonic, Hamilton, and Trouba. There have been opportunities to get top end defencemen, but the Oilers management have, due to their fetish for size and mean streak, overvalued their own prospects such as Nurse.

    So when someone says the Oilers had to move Taylor Hall to fill a hole on the blueline, it agitates me.

    Fuck right off.

  69. McSorley33 says:

    Love the talk…..

    PC fired his gun this summer and bagged a gopher.

    No bullets in the chamber ( assuming they are not moving Nurse ) for big game hunting.

    But, as the narrative goes, he HAD to make the move at that’s EXACT moment in the market.

    I wonder if PC is buying equities at this level?

  70. Water Fire says:

    NHL GM ‘s have a long and storied history of over valuing players like Nurse. He is a physical specimen at a young age. I think he is very likely thought of highly by teams other than the Oilers and I am not saying one for one necessarily.
    I also think Troubas salary demand brings a large cap implication.

    Sorry if I messed up typing I am outside and can barely see my phone

  71. pocession charge says:

    McSorley33:
    Love the talk…..

    PC fired his gun this summer and bagged a gopher.

    No bullets in the chamber ( assuming they are not moving Nurse ) for big game hunting.

    But, as the narrative goes, he HADto make the move at that’s EXACT moment in the market.

    I wonder if PC is buying equities at this level?

    I wonder what magical moves you would have made in his place? Compelt!!!!

  72. NF Oiler says:

    Nurse doesn’t get enough respect..we have to remember he was just a 20 year old kid last year..he had some shitty games last year (as any rookie would) but I remember some really good ones too..a dman with his size,speed and toughness is not common..I understand fully why Pete values him so much

  73. Woogie63 says:

    Jet have a tiny hockey operation management team. Three people are the Jet’s brain trust, It looks like amongst many other things Larry Simmons manages the “fancy stats”. I wonder how they see our LHD?

  74. slurve says:

    It would be great to have Trouba here as an Oiler but think of the salary he will want- probably in the 6-7 million range. This will not be easy if we have others coming off ELC soon. We do not need to protect Nurse in the expansion draft as well.

    I think Hamonic will be swapped for Trouba. Just a gut feeling. Hamonic wanted to go to a team that was near his home, St Malo, Man., before the end of last year. This could be very fitting.

  75. frjohnk says:

    If Chevy was willing to trade Trouba for Nurse +

    The Nurse fan in me DOES NOT want to trade Nurse in a package for Trouba. Nope, notta, not doing it. Love Nurse.

    But the Oiler fan in me knows this is a no brainer.

    Trading a non top 6 forward/top 4 Dman plus whatever and getting in return a top 3 Dman. = No brainer.

    For those who didnt mind the Hall trade to fill a hole, they must be loving the chance to really plug our last big hole and doing it without robbing from our players that would make a difference this year.

    If that trade went through, Id be pretty sad to see Nurse go, but my optimism would go through the roof as Trouba added to our group would be one of the better D cores in the league.

  76. pocession charge says:

    PunjabiOil:

    Hamonic, Hamilton, and Trouba.There have been opportunities to get top end defencemen, but the Oilers management have, due to their fetish for size and mean streak, overvalued their own prospects such as Nurse.

    So when someone says the Oilers had to move Taylor Hall to fill a hole on the blueline, it agitates me.

    Fuck right off.

    Once again, you don’t know what was available nor the asking price. These type of comments are so ridiculous coming from uninformed fans. The Oilers didn’t have to trade Taylor Hall or any other player for that matter. Could have started the season with Mark Fayne as the top RHD and another failed season.

  77. pocession charge says:

    slurve:
    It would be great to have Trouba here as an Oiler but think of the salary he will want- probably in the 6-7 million range.

    How do you figure 6-7 million? He doesn’t have the boxcars to command that kind of salary. Plus he’s an RFA and that will reduce his AAV. 4-4.5 million is much more likely.

  78. Lowetide says:

    GCW_69: I am not sure that fits with what we have been hearing, where Nurse was part of the ask for Hamilton and Harmonic.

    Nurse has cache, or at least he did.

    But I think you are correct on the straight up part.I wonder if you expanded the deal and sent Pouliot with Nurse and took Pavalecscontract you could work a deal?

    I heard Klefbom was part of the ask, so even there we don’t know for sure.

  79. Alpine says:

    I guess they don’t wanna move Nurse in a package where they have to add significantly to it to force a deal. So in that vein they overvalue Nurse.

    I would move Darnell in a package for Trouba as long as it doesnt cost another core player. but the argument for trying to keep him is based on his improvement from year to year in junior, and if that trend will continue in the NHL to where he becomes top pairing quality. His first junior season was quite unlike his other three so I’d assume the Oilers are projecting his NHL career in a similar arc.

    I think NHL GMs are a bit smarter nowadays and don’t want to trade proven for potential, and that’s why Nurse doesn’t have a lot of value right now. The Oilers might be right to develop him so that he becomes an asset on the ice and for a trade. I doubt they move him if he comes good though.

  80. Fog of Warts says:

    Narrative is what we use when thinking becomes too dangerous to indulge.

    How to assess a prospect with elite physical tools after a trial by tire fire rookie season with precious little shelter from the toughest of the tough (with predictable results) is the most dangerous thinking of all.

    A year ago Leon was plastered with warning signs (80% narrative, 20% cognitive), and some of these still remain (his starburst turn was, after all, accomplished alongside the relentless riverboat escapades of the not-nearly-so-dearly-departed as most fans can stomach).

    Nurse, too, probably would have benefited from an extended reset among his inferiors (Darnell hops over the board, takes his first warm-up spin, then glances across the ice at the other team’s bench; “damn! I though rickets and malnutrition were cured conditions”).

    Now it’s easy to conclude that Nurse was overwhelmed in a worse way than Leon’s horrible terrible very bad half year, but you weren’t the guy who had to show up to meet the team physio and then sheepishly admit behind closed doors “doctor, doctor, I can’t piss a drop!” which is maybe better—or maybe not so much better—than Nurse having to confess that his private plumbing was defective last season in some other way.

    As the ice chips fell into a foreboding Rorschach silhouette, Nurse surely experienced a growth condition. Benign or malignant? Let your Narrative Eight Ball be the judge.

  81. Pescador says:

    Regarding Trouble; agree that cap ramifications have to be at the forefront of anything a GM does these days. I have a hard time worrying about which players salary will need to be dumped in 2 years to make room for said player. I don’t need to remind anyone here we finished 28th last year, at this point the only concerns we should have is acquiring good players & striving for depth(balance if you prefer).
    The needle needs to be moved forward in a big way before we can start the debate over which players to keep as part of the core.

  82. Lowetide says:

    Fog: I am fine betting on Nurse, but am not certain a big pile of fancy stats folks agree. I trust my eyes, but history tells me I have been wrong before. We wait.

  83. Primetime says:

    May be relevant to keep in mind that given the opportunity to utilize his skill set, Trouba was the first person to sit for Chia/McLellan on Team North America. No idea if he would have even played at all if Ekblad didn’t get hurt. Sure it was a team of all-stars but still lets you know where they slot him. Maybe Trouba remembers the same and has no desire to play for them

  84. Nate780 says:

    “If you read twitter or various online posts today, you will read about how stupid Peter Chiarelli is for not trading Darnell Nurse for Jacob Trouba. I would ask you to use your head for more than a hat rack, and consider what the Winnipeg Jets might want in return for their truly substantial young defenseman. The mind boggles at the idea we can talk ourselves into Nurse for Trouba straight up as a reasonable option, and then lay blame on Chiarelli for not pulling the trigger. I think some people have an agenda, and encourage you to use the brain God gave you”

    for all the talk you’ve had lately about being respectful. This seems to be an extremely disrespectful comment.

    I’m not saying Nurse for Trouba straight up is of equal value. But the fact that Nurse does not need to be protected in the expansion draft holds significant value, probably more than you would think. Also, the fact that he asked to be traded, would have to drop Troubas value at least a little bit. I don’t think it’s as far off as you’re trying to make it seem to be, oh so respectfully.

  85. Centre of attention says:

    Lowetide:
    Fog: I am fine betting on Nurse, but am not certain a big pile of fancy stats folks agree. I trust my eyes, but history tells me I have been wrong before. We wait.

    I think the answer lies in his splits. He started the year fine, and I think when he was slotted in his right spot at times later in the year he had some decent games as well.

    I just think the nights where he was in way above his head playing 20+ minutes were such a large sample size that they completely trashed his fancy stats in general.

    I think there is a player there, the Oilers just need to do a much MUCH better job of bringing that player out.

  86. Nate780 says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!,

    i also read a few of those articles where they were saying “we would have offered more value” then began talking about the draft picks and prospects they would have sent over. That isn’t what the Oilers were looking for, doesn’t matter if you think the value was higher.

  87. leadfarmer says:

    Chevaldayoff is a very careful and calculated GM. He is actually the opposite of Chia who is a run and gun GM. I don’t expect a quick resolution to this issue.

    Remember last year when I warned about keeping Nurse up because he is going to struggle and everyone is going to get down at him. Well consider that fulfilled. He is a physical specimen that could make up for his subpar defensive awareness with his physical and skating abilities in juniors. Now he’s got to learn that and it will take time. I bet that’s it’s not just the Oilers management that still view him higher than everyone here, I’m betting every GM does.

    What’s with the crazy Sekera plus first proposals for Trouba. Sekera has a NMC, why would he go to Winnipeg. We need Sekera more than Trouba. First I won’t consider Klefbom healthy until I see him play 20 games at his previous ability. People forget the verbal about Ryan Whitney feeling good when he really wasn’t. Sekera is our best turd polisher. He turns anyone into a reasonable top 4 defender. We need that guy. Not a guy that could turn into Sekera in a few seasons. I know some number crunchers are high on Trouba but I don’t think there is any evidence that he can polish a turd like Sekera can.

    Anyway I wouldn’t expect a speedy resolution and I’m guessing Trouba requested a trade a long time ago and he thinks he can light a fire under Chevaldayoff which is not going to work. That guy is not Lowe

  88. leadfarmer says:

    Lowetide:
    Fog: I am fine betting on Nurse, but am not certain a big pile of fancy stats folks agree. I trust my eyes, but history tells me I have been wrong before. We wait.

    I don’t care about fancy stats on a player that was clearly thrown into the deep end on a terrible team. Those advanced stats tell you that he was thrown into the deep end on a terrible team and that’s it. They don’t tell you what he’s going to do when he matures physically and scares the crap out of the opposition. Gaudreau is going to hate playing him. It’s going to be a Hemsky Rychel reverse.

  89. Centre of attention says:

    Draisaitl slides up to Kopitar’s line on LW.

    *fans self*

  90. Ryan says:

    PunjabiOil:
    Bob Stauffer once again speaking from the Oilers POV.

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 17m17 minutes ago

    For those asking. I wouldn’t trade either Klefbom or Nurse in a deal for Trouba. Klefbom-Larsson pairing at a good $. Nurse does not need..

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 15m15 minutes ago

    …to be protected for the Expansion draft. Also, what is Trouba worth in terms of contract?

    Bob Stauffer ‏@Bob_Stauffer 3m3 minutes ago

    Peter Chiarelli and Todd McLellan saw Trouba first-hand at World Cup. They know his strengths and limitations. Is he worth say 6 X 5.5M?

    ___________

    Hamonic, Hamilton, and Trouba.There have been opportunities to get top end defencemen, but the Oilers management have, due to their fetish for size and mean streak, overvalued their own prospects such as Nurse.

    So when someone says the Oilers had to move Taylor Hall to fill a hole on the blueline, it agitates me.

    Fuck right off.

    To a certain degree, Chiarelli has painted himself into a corner.

    If he could get Trouba for much less than he paid for Larsson, and Trouba’s the better player of the two, then he looks a little foolish for making the Hall trade.

  91. fifthcartel says:

    Nurse is an interesting prospect, but what does he realistically project as is something the Oilers should be asking. He’s not going to be a big points producer, or a powerplay guy, so its interesting to hear McLellan talk about him like he’s some all around defensemen when realistically his value will come on the defensive side, where the Oilers have an abundance of left-handed defensemen like that already.

    I think Nurse could be a good second-pairing guy, but the talk around his potential and his game is kinda ridiculous, especially for what he has done.

  92. Chachi says:

    I recall the boy king of the fancy stats world, Kyle Dubas, singing Nurse’s praises from a fancy stats and hockey sense perspective in his last junior season. Now people point to the fancy stats from his rookie season to say he’ll never amount to anything. They say he’ll never overcome his lack of hockey sense. Interesting. I think if the Oilers refused to trade Nurse for some of the defencemen mentioned it was because of more than a size fetish. I bet if you asked Kyle Dubas what he thought of Nurse today he would still think he had a pretty bright future ahead of him.

  93. JDï™ says:

    Centre of attention: Draisaitl slides up to Kopitar’s line on LW.

    *fans self*

    With Hossa on RW, no?

    Take notes, Leon. Lots of notes.

  94. fifthcartel says:

    There was also this tweet.

    Draglikepull ‏@draglikepull Mar 24
    LRT: I was once told by someone who works for an NHL team that Nurse’s underlying #s were bad, but playing for SSM made him look better.

    https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/713010302753775618

    Its easy to say that “he’s super motivated” or “that they played him too much”, but it’d be foolish to ignore these early signs.

  95. Jethro Tull says:

    The word “narrative” has bad press here.

    I think it fair to point out that narratives can be true.

    The ask for Hamonic was a one for one d-man of similar ability, as per Snow at the time. Much speculation that Eberle would have been added from both sides.

    Boston cut their nose off to spite their face. We offered what Calgary did, but with higher picks.

    I can find links for these, but I’m on my phone so will take a while.

    Fwiw, if you could trade Nurse for Trouba or Hamonic, you do it. I’ve said it before. We need the player we hope Nurse turns in to now. Not three years from now.

  96. russ99 says:

    Ca$h-McMoney!:
    Sekera.

    Please?

    NMC – Sekera will be an Oiler for three more years at least.

    Numbers don’t tell the whole story on Nurse. This year with a better roster, another year of McLellan’s systems and hopefully the forwards helping out more in the D zone, will make a noticeable difference.

    The other reason I don’t like a Nurse-Trouba deal is that the Oilers have their defense set up in a cost effective way with Klef and Larsson’s deals what could be well below market value, This helps us when we need to give Connor a max deal. If the Oilers blow that all up, it should be for someone who’s more of a known equation/sure thing, and Trouba’s agent wants top dollar.

    It would not be good if we had to move a quality player when Connor’s ELC was up because we bit off more than we could chew.

  97. Pescador says:

    Fog of Warts:
    Narrative is what we use when thinking becomes too dangerous to indulge.

    How to assess a prospect with elite physical tools after a trial by tire fire rookie season with precious little shelter from the toughest of the tough (with predictable results) is the most dangerous thinking of all.

    A year ago Leon was plastered with warning signs (80% narrative, 20% cognitive), and some of these still remain (his starburst turn was, after all, accomplished alongside the relentless riverboat escapades of the not-nearly-so-dearly-departed as most fans can stomach).

    Nurse, too, probably would have benefited from an extended reset among his inferiors (Darnell hops over the board, takes his first warm-up spin, then glances across the ice at the other team’s bench; “damn! I though rickets and malnutrition were cured conditions”).

    Now it’s easy to conclude that Nurse was overwhelmed in a worse way than Leon’s horrible terrible very bad half year, but you weren’t the guy who had to show up to meet the team physio and then sheepishly admit behind closed doors “doctor, doctor, I can’t piss a drop!” which is maybe better—or maybe not so much better—than Nurse having to confess that his private plumbing was defective last season in some other way.

    As the ice chips fell into a foreboding Rorschach silhouette, Nurse surely experienced a growth condition.Benign or malignant?Let your Narrative Eight Ball be the judge.

    How much better would Nurse look today if he played alongside Bryan Campbell in his rookie season or in front of Luongo. Or with committed 2 way forwards in the eastern conference for that matter. Not comparing him to Ekblad but playing 1st & 2nd pairing minutes on the Oilers with little to no shelter last year has to considered. At least it does for me.
    I agree with Leadfarmer

  98. Jethro Tull says:

    Compelt city on here today.

  99. Pouzar says:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/offer-sheet-not-jacob-troubas-ceiling/

    Interesting verbal from a few scouts on Trouba. Pretty interesting contrast in opinions. The negative ones were like they were written from a couple season ticket holders I know.

  100. godot10 says:

    B S:
    speeds,

    Again, going of memory, so grain of salt and all. but when Hamilton was traded to Calgary, it was rumoured that Edmonton offered a first and 2 2nds, but Boston wanted Nurse in place of one of the seconds. The truth of course was that Sweeney was never going to trade with Chia anyway, considering he took a crappier deal to begin with.

    The way I remember it as Nurse in addition to all three draft picks. Sweeney took three draft picks from Calgary instead.

  101. RedArmy says:

    Did the Canucks ask for Nurse as part of a Schnider deal?

  102. Psyche says:

    Woodguy,

    Thanks Woodguy.

  103. Chachi says:

    fifthcartel:
    There was also this tweet.

    Draglikepull ‏@draglikepullMar 24
    LRT: I was once told by someone who works for an NHL team that Nurse’s underlying #s were bad, but playing for SSM made him look better.

    https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/713010302753775618

    Its easy to say that “he’s super motivated” or “that they played him too much”, but it’d be foolish to ignore these early signs.

    Contrast that with this:

    In particular, Dubas and the club’s manager of ticket sales and advanced analytics, Tyson Enfield, pay close attention to individual and team possession stats. Those, such as Corsi and Quality of Competition, reflect glowingly on the young defenceman.

    We aren’t privy to the Hounds’ in-house figures, but according to Dubas, there’s no guesswork here.

    “People get obsessed with Darnell’s plus/minus (plus-1, down from plus-15 the year prior), but his underlying numbers are excellent,” Dubas said. “Relative to the competition he plays [against], he does extremely well. Far greater than 50 percent of the time, the puck is not in our end. To me, it doesn’t get much bigger than that. If we’re taking the other team’s best players and forcing them to play in their end and away from the puck, that’s a successful day.

    “The quality of competition he’s faced is higher than anyone else in our league, especially among defencemen.”

    Source: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nurse-makes-good-on-promise-to-dominate-ohl/

  104. Jethro Tull says:

    I heard that there’s no peace in the Middle East because Nurse was part of the ask.

  105. Psyche says:

    Chachi,

    Saw this comment from Steve Simmons on Dubas yesterday:

    “A question around the World Cup that won’t go away: How long before assistant GM Kyle Dubas leaves the Maple Leafs? The thinking in hockey circles is Dubas has been pushed to the corner by current Leafs management.”

    http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/24/joffrey-lupul-situation-with-maple-leafs-doesnt-pass-smell-test

  106. Ryan says:

    Chachi:
    I recall the boy king of the fancy stats world, Kyle Dubas, singing Nurse’s praises from a fancy stats and hockey sense perspective in his last junior season. Now people point to the fancy stats from his rookie season to say he’ll never amount to anything. They say he’ll never overcome his lack of hockey sense. Interesting. I think if the Oilers refused to trade Nurse for some of the defencemen mentioned it was because of more than a size fetish. I bet if you asked Kyle Dubas what he thought of Nurse today he would still think he had a pretty bright future ahead of him.

    My fear with Nurse is that he’s Gudbranson 2.0

    Big, tough, effective face puncher, skates fast, can transport the puck, but lacks an effective shot and ability to headman the puck.

    Defensemen can sometimes (not often) make marked improvements in their shot (hello Davidson), but I can’t think of any who transition from Gryba-esque puck moving ability to a high level.

  107. Lowetide says:

    RedArmy:
    Did the Canucks ask for Nurse as part of a Schnider deal?

    Yes. The pick devoted to Nurse was part of the rumored package. Plus Marincin and something iirc.

  108. Chachi says:

    Ryan: My fear with Nurse is that he’s Gudbranson 2.0

    Big, tough, effective face puncher, skates fast, can transport the puck, but lacks an effective shot and ability to headman the puck.

    Defensemen can sometimes (not often) make marked improvements in their shot (hello Davidson), but I can’t think of any who transition from Gryba-esque puck moving ability to a high level.

    Agreed, Nurse could very well turn out like Gudbranson.

  109. böök¡je says:

    Still no keys. After not paying much attention to hockey news, I’m looking forward to getting caught up on everything that happened over the summer and getting some insights into the coming season.

    I’m hoping that Hall and McDavid find chemistry because if they do they could be a force together for YEARS! I’m also hoping that Chiarelli traded Yak or someone for a number one defenseman like Pietrangelo or Karlsson because the team really really needed a top tier defenseman but not overpay for one. Anyway, whatever happened, it will hopefully mean some good hockey at Rexall Place this year.

  110. leadfarmer says:

    Ryan: My fear with Nurse is that he’s Gudbranson 2.0

    Big, tough, effective face puncher, skates fast, can transport the puck, but lacks an effective shot and ability to headman the puck.

    Defensemen can sometimes (not often) make marked improvements in their shot (hello Davidson), but I can’t think of any who transition from Gryba-esque puck moving ability to a high level.

    Gudbranson is a much better comparison for Reinhart and actually a very poor comparison for Nurse.

  111. wheatnoil says:

    fifthcartel:
    There was also this tweet.

    Draglikepull ‏@draglikepullMar 24
    LRT: I was once told by someone who works for an NHL team that Nurse’s underlying #s were bad, but playing for SSM made him look better.

    https://twitter.com/draglikepull/status/713010302753775618

    Its easy to say that “he’s super motivated” or “that they played him too much”, but it’d be foolish to ignore these early signs.

    I saw that quote but it flies in the face of other evidence. Kyle Dubas, himself, stated that Nurse put up over 50% possession while facing the toughest competition in the league.

    Nurse did not put up amazing scoring totals in his Junior days and I feel like LT has been noting since Nurse’s draft day that his primary role was unlikely to be offensive due to this. In that way, nothing has changed in regards to Nurse. He never really projected to be likely to have the offence some would hope for from a #1D.

    However, his defensive reputation & possession numbers appear to have been solid in Junior. It was only this last season where everything went off track and Nurse had not just a bad season via corsi and xG but a historically bad one… among the worst in the last few years by a defenceman.

    We’ve established an excuse for him in that he’s 20 and should not have been in the NHL and there’s little doubt of that. It’s worth noting that recent stats darling and Dreamy #2 Brandon Davidson was in his over-age year of Junior at the equivalent point in his development that Nurse was at last year.

    So I’m not sure there is a reasonable argument to write him off entirely. However, it’s also worth noting that Jacob Trouba is only one year older than Nurse and had superior results for the last 3 years (even if he was over-matched a bit 3 years ago). So if you can convert Nurse+ into Trouba you do it, even as (if you’re Winnipeg) you’d likely want more for your prized 22 year old RHD.

    I think there is a risk in over-projecting Nurse to be a #1D when we don’t have a lot of evidence that he is tracking to that level (not to say he won’t get there). However, I do think in some quarters there has been an over-compensation for this and there is an under-projection out there. We’ve seen this before with Eberle. He was probably over-valued when he signed his contract based on a high shooting percentage year. From that, there is a group that never seemed to move off that viewpoint despite more evidence that became available.

    I’ve written a lot of words here saying, perhaps, nothing except that we should attempt to be:
    A) Clear on the evidence we have accumulated so far
    B) Not ignore that evidence or hand-wave it away based on an excuse (he shouldn’t have been in the NHL so the numbers don’t matter)
    C) Not over-project based on those numbers. They are a warning sign and nothing more. So if you can get fantastic value for Darnell now, great! If you can’t, hold your hat and collect more data.

  112. godot10 says:

    pocession charge: How do you figure 6-7 million? He doesn’t have the boxcars to command that kind of salary.Plus he’s an RFA and that will reduce his AAV.4-4.5 million is much more likely.

    Hamilton, Jones, and Rielly have all signed 2nd contracts at $5 million and over. There is a new “standard”. Escrow is massive right now. Stauffer’s 6 x $5.5 million speculation is the likely cost of signing Jacob Trouba ($1.4 million more than both Klefbom and Larsson).

    Just forget about the $4 million something for Trouba. It ain’t going to happen, except on a two-year bridge deal.

    And Nurse, like Lowetide said, is probably not enough.

    At best is it Trouba (6 x $5.5 million) for Nurse plus 2017 1st AND losing Davidson in the expansion draft.

  113. JDï™ says:

    böök¡je,

    Have you ever seen that Gilligan’s Island episode where they find the Japanese sailor?

  114. Chachi says:

    Psyche:
    Chachi,

    Saw this comment from Steve Simmons on Dubas yesterday:

    “A question around the World Cup that won’t go away: How long before assistant GM Kyle Dubas leaves the Maple Leafs? The thinking in hockey circles is Dubas has been pushed to the corner by current Leafs management.”

    http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/24/joffrey-lupul-situation-with-maple-leafs-doesnt-pass-smell-test

    Did he get this from Phil Kessel’s hot dog vendor? 🙂

  115. Lowetide says:

    böök¡je:
    Still no keys.After not paying much attention to hockey news, I’m looking forward to getting caught up on everything that happened over the summer and getting some insights into the coming season.

    I’m hoping that Hall and McDavid find chemistry because if they do they could be a force together for YEARS!I’m also hoping that Chiarelli traded Yak or someone for a number one defenseman like Pietrangelo or Karlsson because the team really really needed a top tier defenseman but not overpay for one.Anyway, whatever happened, it will hopefully mean some good hockey at Rexall Place this year.

    These are fantabulous posts.

  116. godot10 says:

    Lowetide:
    Fog: I am fine betting on Nurse, but am not certain a big pile of fancy stats folks agree. I trust my eyes, but history tells me I have been wrong before. We wait.

    To paraphrase Bill Belichek, players make the most improvement between their first and second seasons.

    i.e. There really aren’t reliable statistics when a player is in development/learning mode. One really needs tracking stats, which correlate to what coaching and teaching and usage the player is experiencing.

    i.e. Fancy stats people don’t know what they don’t know if they are making absolute statements about a rookie season.

    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

  117. OF17 says:

    The thing with Nurse + not being enough for Trouba is that some other team would have to beat the offer. Who else is looking for a top-4 RHD who has a better young LHD for sale? Maybe Anaheim trades Lindholm, but that would be extreme. Maybe Toronto trades Gardiner +, but that would leave a hole at LD. Maybe Philly does, but given Gostisbehere and Provorov won’t move, is Sanheim really more appealing than Nurse? Does Winnipeg like Lindell more than Darnell? Is Brendan Smith a good enough LD?

    There are a lot of those questions to answer, but so far I haven’t found one that makes more sense for both teams than Nurse + for Trouba. Winnipeg needs to make a move. Maybe not immediately, but in the short to medium term. Edmonton’s bid is as good as or better than any I can reasonably project, which makes this a legitimate possibility.

    Maybe the play is Nurse for Myers though, if Trouba hasn’t killed the relationship with his teammates. He might’ve, seeing some of their comments. For the record, I’d do Nurse for either of them but would prefer Trouba.

  118. wheatnoil says:

    OF17,

    That’s a good question. McKenzie dropped Arizona as being very interested. However, their LHD include OEL and Goligoski, who likely aren’t going to be involved in the deal. The Jets would have to be content with getting some prospects. I’m not sure the contract situation with Reider is settled so they could move him but I don’t think that’s the major position of need for Winnipeg.

  119. Yak Efron says:

    böök¡je,

    I hope you are sitting down…..

  120. Centre of attention says:

    Nice play by Sekera to get Tartar on that partial break.

    Sekera has been very solid for Europe throughout the tournament. The kind of “steady Eddy” consistency the Oilers will need for this up coming season. Very pleased with his play.

  121. commonfan14 says:

    Primetime: May be relevant to keep in mind that given the opportunity to utilize his skill set, Trouba was the first person to sit for Chia/McLellan on Team North America.

    Protecting the future asset.

    #narrative

  122. OF17 says:

    wheatnoil:
    OF17,

    That’s a good question. McKenzie dropped Arizona as being very interested. However, their LHD include OEL and Goligoski, who likely aren’t going to be involved in the deal. The Jets would have to be content with getting some prospects. I’m not sure the contract situation with Reider is settled so they could move him but I don’t think that’s the major position of need for Winnipeg.

    Yeah, I saw that about Arizona, but I don’t see them beating our offer. Chyrchrun is the only guy comparable to Nurse they have, and you’d have to think Winnipeg would value the extra 3 years of development. Who knows though. At the very least, Arizona’s position isn’t clearly better than ours, and they’re one of the more talked about teams.

  123. wheatnoil says:

    I think this is a trade scenario LT had brought up before, but what about Fowler in Anaheim?

    The Ducks may need to shed salary to sign Lindholm. Fowler is the obvious one to go. Ducks can’t trade Fowler for Trouba b/c they need to shed salary. Oilers don’t need LHD and need better than Fowler.

    Would the Jets have interest in Fowler as 2-LD (where they probably would have played a right-handed Trouba)? If so, what do the Oilers have to give Anaheim to get Fowler? If I was the Ducks, I’d want Davidson… cheap and effective. Anything else Anaheim would accept?

  124. godot10 says:

    wheatnoil:
    I think this is a trade scenario LT had brought up before, but what about Fowler in Anaheim?

    The Ducks may need to shed salary to sign Lindholm. Fowler is the obvious one to go. Ducks can’t trade Fowler for Trouba b/c they need to shed salary. Oilers don’t need LHD and need better than Fowler.

    Would the Jets have interest in Fowler as 2-LD (where they probably would have played a right-handedTrouba)? If so, what do the Oilers have to give Anaheim to get Fowler? If I was the Ducks, I’d want Davidson… cheap and effective. Anything else Anaheim would accept?

    The Ducks are looking for a forward/LW for Fowler, I think.

    Pouliot and a 2017 1st to the Ducks
    Fowler to the Jets
    Trouba to the Oilers.

  125. Bank Shot says:

    How do you think Nurse’s 20 year old season compares to Klefbom’s?

    Klefbom didn’t show any offence anywhere before playing in the NHL, and his stats weren’t great in his 17 game showing at 20.

    I think Nurse has good tools and is likely to be a good defenceman for a long, long time.

    Maybe the offence will come, maybe it won’t, but we sure as hell didn’t find out that info last season.

    There are more than a few prominent defencemen in the NHL that didn’t show big offence early, but did later.

    Brent Burns scored 16 points in his 20 year old season.

    I’m willing to bet Nurse’s sophomore season looks a lot better than his first.

  126. Ryan says:

    leadfarmer: Gudbranson is a much better comparison for Reinhart and actually a very poor comparison for Nurse.

    If you’re going to make a statement like that you could at least explain your rationale?

    Gudbranson played 72 NHL hockey games in his draft plus 2 season. 72 2-6-8, -19, 78 pim. 2.6 sh%. He was in 6 fights.

    Reinhart just finished his draft plus four season. 29 0-1-1, -6, 20 PIM. 0 fights.

    Reinhart imo is flagging far behind Gudbranson’s development. Dude had one assist in 29 NHL games with 52% ozone starts playing against the dregs in his draft plus 4 season.

    By Gudbranson’s draft plus 4 season, he had already played 169 NHL games (including a lockout year) vs 37 for Reinhart.

    Nurse played 69 games in his draft plus 3 season. 69 3-7-10, -13, 60 pim. 4 fights. 2.5 sh%

    Last year, Gudbranson went 64 2-7-9, +3, 49 pim. 3 fights. 2.7 sh%

    The boxcars, pim, sh%, fights line up pretty close between Nurse and Gudbranson

    The fact that Reinhart isn’t even an NHL hockey player at his draft plus 4 season, hasn’t even had a single tilt in the NHL, makes your assertion puzzling for me.

  127. wheatnoil says:

    godot10: The Ducks are looking for a forward/LW for Fowler, I think.

    Pouliot and a 2017 1st to the Ducks
    Fowler to the Jets
    Trouba to the Oilers.

    I thought about Pouliot but he doesn’t save Anaheim anything on the cap. They have $7.5M left with 20 guys on the roster. They still need to sign Linholm and Rakell plus add a roster player. It’s pretty tight. My guess is they’d want a cheaper winger.

    Yakupov is a nice skilled winger who they’d probably move to the left side, but he’s not near enough for Fowler in all likelihood. Also Carlyle would likely kill him. Carlyle would like Hendricks, but again, we’re batting too low in the order for Fowler. I’m not a 100% sure where the fit is.

  128. Pescador says:

    Sweden stuck in 2nd gear atm

  129. Katzes_Kats says:

    Would anybody do a trade for Trouba like this

    Edm: Yakupov, Reinhart, 3rd Round pick
    Wpg: Trouba, maybe a 6th or 7pth round pick.

    Anyone?

  130. Katzes_Kats says:

    This leaves you with a starting lineup of:

    Lucic – McDavid – Eberle
    Pouliot – RNH – Versteeg
    Maroon – Drai – Puljujarvi
    ??? – Letestu – Kassian

    Kelfbom – Larsson
    Sekera – Trouba
    Davidson – Fayne

    Talbot

  131. Pescador says:

    Bank Shot:
    How do you think Nurse’s 20 year old season compares to Klefbom’s?

    Klefbom didn’t show any offence anywhere before playing in the NHL, and his stats weren’t great in his 17 game showing at 20.

    I think Nurse has good tools and is likely to be a good defenceman for a long, long time.

    Maybe the offence will come, maybe it won’t, but we sure as hell didn’t find out that info last season.

    There are more than a few prominent defencemen in the NHL that didn’t show big offence early, but did later.

    Brent Burns scored 16 points in his 20 year old season.

    I’m willing to bet Nurse’s sophomore season looks a lot better than his first.

    I dunno, Nurse isn’t fitting into my expectations as a Chris Pronger clone, #1 D river pusher.
    He should have been good enough to shelter himself, so you know…..
    Fuck that guy

  132. JDï™ says:


    gary lawless Verified account
    ‏@garylawless

    lots of teams have spoken with #nhljets about a trade for Jacob Trouba. Ask is very clear – left hand D of same calibre and age

    I don’t think Yak, Reino and a 3rd has a chance, nor does Nurse +.

  133. Oiln5 says:

    godot10: The Ducks are looking for a forward/LW for Fowler, I think.

    Pouliot and a 2017 1st to the Ducks
    Fowler to the Jets
    Trouba to the Oilers.

    I like it, that could work for everyone. Leaving us with C and D depth in all the right places moving forward.

  134. Jethro Tull says:

    Katzes_Kats:
    Would anybody do a trade for Trouba like this

    Edm: Yakupov, Reinhart, 3rd Round pick
    Wpg: Trouba, maybe a 6th or 7pth round pick.

    Anyone?

    I make that deal ten times out of ten.

    Can’t think for the life of me why Winnipeg would.

  135. Ryan says:

    godot10: The Ducks are looking for a forward/LW for Fowler, I think.

    Pouliot and a 2017 1st to the Ducks
    Fowler to the Jets
    Trouba to the Oilers.

    Call Chiarelli.

    That makes plenty of sense to me.

  136. Ryan says:

    Jethro Tull: I make that deal ten times out of ten.

    Can’t think for the life of me why Winnipeg would.

    I prefer yesterday’s package of Reinhart, a second, and Mark Fayne. :/

  137. Lowetide says:

    Katzes_Kats:
    Would anybody do a trade for Trouba like this

    Edm: Yakupov, Reinhart, 3rd Round pick
    Wpg: Trouba, maybe a 6th or 7pth round pick.

    Anyone?

    I think you might be able to do Davidson and a high end defensive prospect.

  138. Pouzar says:

    gary lawless ‏@garylawless 5m5 minutes ago
    while #nhljets talk with potential trade partners, Trouba’s agent is talking to GMs about parameters of a contract. Teams want to know cost

  139. Centre of attention says:

    Judging by Todd’s comments today I fully expect Leon to eventually make his way onto the wing in the top 6.

    Edmonton OilersVerified account
    ‏@EdmontonOilers
    “It gives us an opportunity to see if we have a third-line centre in that mix.” Coach McLellan on 97, 93 & 29 not at #OilersCamp yet

  140. Pouzar says:

    gary lawless ‏@garylawless 3m3 minutes ago
    next deadline in Trouba/#nhljets situation is Dec. 1. not on a contract by that point – can’t sign or play this season. So Dec. 1 is D-day

  141. Jethro Tull says:

    JDï™:

    gary lawless Verified account
    ‏@garylawless


    lots of teams have spoken with #nhljets about a trade for Jacob Trouba. Ask is very clear – left hand D of same calibre and age

    I don’t think Yak, Reino and a 3rd has a chance, nor does Nurse +.

    They can ask for whatever they like, but the reality is different. They basically want another team to do the hard work of signing their prospect to a value contract then swap one for one for a guy who wants paying. No dice.

    As we heard from the Hall deal, the cap matters.

  142. wheatnoil says:

    Lowetide: I think you might be able to do Davidson and a high end defensive prospect.

    Davidson and Jones? Perhaps Davidson and Niemo? Or someone closer to NHL ready?

  143. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide: I think you might be able to do Davidson and a high end defensive prospect.

    Nurse is a high end defensive prospect.:-P

  144. Oiln5 says:

    You can stick Nurse and Yak in the not for trade pile, for different reasons.

  145. Woodguy says:

    Fog of Warts,

    Draisaitl had a good 14/15, he just had a ONSH% of 5.5 and ONSV% of .885

    No one is going to look good like that.

  146. Ryan says:

    Pouzar:
    gary lawless ‏@garylawless3m3 minutes ago
    next deadline in Trouba/#nhljets situation is Dec. 1. not on a contract by that point – can’t sign or play this season. So Dec. 1 is D-day

    Thanks for the updates.

    Funny how Trouba screws over the Jets and now you like him again.

  147. Lowetide says:

    wheatnoil: Davidson and Jones? Perhaps Davidson and Niemo? Or someone closer to NHL ready?

    I think the Oilers would need to find someone with more value than Paigin (via trade). Doubt they trade Davidson and Nurse, and wonder if Reinhart and Davidson is enough.

  148. Pouzar says:

    Ryan: Thanks for the updates.

    Funny how Trouba screws over the Jets and now you like him again.

    I like him just fine just not what for it will cost to acquire/pay him.

  149. Centre of attention says:

    Sekera was key in that win for Europe. Cleared a dangerous rebound which lead to Europe breaking out and eventually a winning goal.

    *edit* passes review.

  150. Ryan says:

    Pouzar: I like him just fine just not what for it will cost to acquire/pay him.

    I know. I just meant that you HATE the Jets and Trouba screwed them over so he must have scored some bonus points with you.

    It would be like if TJ Brodie demanded a trade for the rest of us here.

  151. hunter1909 says:

    “Ralph Kruger, your Skype call is through” …

  152. Richard S.S. says:

    I agree that any offer must start with Brandon Davidson, but must get much better.

    Brandon Davidson http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/d/davidbr01.html is much more of a sure NHL-caliber thing than Darnell Nurse http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nurseda01.html . Nurse is not there yet.

    Is it possible that Jordan Oesterle might replace Davidson http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/o/oestejo01.html ? If so, trading Davidson becomes easier.

    What the Jets want added to the Package makes it harder to evaluate.

    Jut for the record, the Ducks NEED Cap Space. Pick(s) and Prospect(s) might make it work.

  153. hodgkins says:

    That Krueger guy seems like he’d be a good coach in the NHL.

  154. Pouzar says:

    Ryan: I know. I just meant that you HATE the Jets and Trouba screwed them over so he must have scored some bonus points with you.

    It would be like if TJ Brodie demanded a trade for the rest of us here.

    Yeah but I never like to see that stuff. It happened too many times in EDM and I don’t wish it on any franchise especially when you draft a player and invest in their development. I take no pleasure in that but that being said F^CK THE JETS!!!!

  155. Woodguy says:

    Centre of attention: I think the answer lies in his splits. He started the year fine, and I think when he was slotted in his right spot at times later in the year he had some decent games as well.

    I just think the nights where he was in way above his head playing 20+ minutes were such a large sample size that they completely trashed his fancy stats in general.

    I think there is a player there, the Oilers just need to do a much MUCH better job of bringing that player out.

    Nurse’s time with Sekera were actually his best results.

    They weren’t good, but they were his best results.

    Nurse with his most common Dmate and their RelCF% and RelxGF:

    TOI Rel.CF% Rel.xGF%

    DARNELL.NURSE WITH ANDREJ.SEKERA 386.4 -6.38 -5.64
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH JUSTIN.SCHULTZ 242.0 -2.79 -9.01
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH ADAM.CLENDENING 187.49 -5.81 -4.53
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH MARK.FAYNE 94.16 -4.42 -11.00
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH ERIC.GRYBA 91.4 -0.32 -5.00

    For context the worst NHL Dman’s Relative Expected Goal Share (RElxGF) was -9.10 so Nurse’s time with Schultz and Fayne were unmitigated disasters.

    Had his year been all with Sekera, Clendening and Gryba, the narrative (SEE WHAT I DID THERE DMW?!?! *WINK*) would be different.

  156. hunter1909 says:

    hodgkins:
    That Krueger guy seems like he’d be a good coach in the NHL.

    “I doubt it”. Craig MacTavish

    “He can’t even keep a job in the NHL”. Kevin Lowe

  157. OF17 says:

    Nurse + Davidson for Trouba + Lowry?

  158. LadiesloveSmid says:

    the Canada-Europe rivalry will resurface!

  159. Pescador says:

    On the topic of worst trades ever:
    Eakins in- Krueger out.
    Ok it wasn’t a topic, I just wanted to bring it up again.
    Happy for Ralph

  160. Ryan says:

    Pouzar: Yeah but I never like to see that stuff. It happened too many times in EDM and I don’t wish it on any franchise especially when you draft a player and invest in their development. I take no pleasure in that but that being said F^CK THE JETS!!!!

    That’s true, but the circumstances are framed much better by Trouba. He wants to play bigger minutes on the right side and wants to leverage his circumstances to get a bigger contract than he could negotiating only with the Jets.

    This is much different than a Pronger-type situation.

  161. Centre of attention says:

    Woodguy: Nurse’s time with Sekera were actually his best results.

    They weren’t good, but they were his best results.

    Nurse with his most common Dmate and their RelCF% and RelxGF:

    TOIRel.CF%Rel.xGF%

    DARNELL.NURSE WITH ANDREJ.SEKERA 386.4 -6.38 -5.64
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH JUSTIN.SCHULTZ242.0 -2.79 -9.01
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH ADAM.CLENDENING 187.49 -5.81 -4.53
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH MARK.FAYNE94.16 -4.42 -11.00
    DARNELL.NURSE WITH ERIC.GRYBA 91.4 -0.32 -5.00

    For context the worst NHL Dman’s Relative Expected Goal Share (RElxGF) was -9.10 so Nurse’s time with Schultz and Fayne were unmitigated disasters.

    Had his year been all with Sekera, Clendening and Gryba, the narrative (SEE WHAT I DID THERE DMW?!?! *WINK*) would be different.

    When he was playing with Schultz/Fayne, he was playing second pair comp and minutes though. I know his best results were with Sekera but my point still stands. When he was slotted correctly (either with a good partner, or lower on the depth chart, either works) he plays the hockey pretty decently.

    The minutes playing with Schultz/Fayne types while too high in the batting order completely submarine’d him though.

    I don’t want to spin a narrative, just saying that I see an NHL player in Nurse, and the Oilers need to do a better job of deploying/developing that player.

  162. LadiesloveSmid says:

    does EDM need any more D? Paigin’s coming over next year and he’s scoring 44P in his rookie season

  163. Woodguy says:

    leadfarmer: Gudbranson is a much better comparison for Reinhart and actually a very poor comparison for Nurse.

    I think you have that backwards.

    The big complaint about Reinhart is that he’s not physical enough.

    That part of the game is what Gubranson is best at.

    Reinhart can make a very good long pass.

    That part of the game is what Gubranson is not best at.

  164. Woogie63 says:

    I saw Ice Guardians last night at CIFF. Highly recommend the film.

    Semenko and Gadzik are good.

  165. Ryan says:

    Pescador:
    On the topic of worst trades ever:
    Eakins in- Krueger out.
    Ok it wasn’t a topic, I just wanted to bring it up again.
    Happy for Ralph

    If Ralph hadn’t been skyped, we wouldn’t have wasted so much time talking about Corsi.

    Ralph likes to use the old rope a dope method to win games.

    “Okay boys, so forget everything you’ve ever heard about the importance of shot volume. We’re going to tire these guys out by letting them shoot pucks at our net, then…”

  166. wheatnoil says:

    Renney was the one who should never have been fired.

  167. Richard S.S. says:

    I believe Jacob Trouba has been evaluated on this site as a Top-Line RHD. I just don’t remember when. I think he gives the Oilers an amazing Top-4 D that equals most Top-4s in Hockey. All that matters is if Peter Chiarelli thinks Trouba is good enough.

    I am willing to move Davidson and Nurse plus the 2017 1st if the return is that good. I think Griffin Reinhart, Mark Fayne, Jordan Oesterle and Eric Gryba make a good enough third pair.

  168. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Larsson’s contract makes Trouba at ~5.5M pretty do-able no?

    I would think Trouba has more cache in the league than Larsson, could be wrong. I can’t imagine paying more than Hall

  169. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I think the Oilers would need to find someone with more value than Paigin (via trade). Doubt they trade Davidson and Nurse, and wonder if Reinhart and Davidson is enough.

    Reinhart and Davidson is very interesting.

    Both have to be protected, as does Trouba.

    Saves Chiarelli from having to protect Reinhart and expose Davidson to validate that trade.

  170. Woodguy says:

    Lowetide: I think the Oilers would need to find someone with more value than Paigin (via trade). Doubt they trade Davidson and Nurse, and wonder if Reinhart and Davidson is enough.

    The leftorium comes in handy?

    MacT you cunning bastard!

  171. Professor Q says:

    Pescador: I dunno, Nurse isn’t fitting into my expectations as a Chris Pronger clone, #1 D river pusher.
    He should have been good enough to shelter himself, so you know…..
    Fuck that guy

    Pronger wasn’t even that good starting out…

  172. OF17 says:

    I just hope this situation doesn’t drag on too long. It’s in everyone’s interest to have it resolved quickly, but I have a bad feeling the Jets are going to sit on this one for a while.

  173. Woodguy says:

    Centre of attention: When he was playing with Schultz/Fayne, he was playing second pair comp and minutes though. I know his best results were with Sekera but my point still stands. When he was slotted correctly (either with a good partner, or lower on the depth chart, either works) he plays the hockey pretty decently.

    The minutes playing with Schultz/Fayne types while too high in the batting order completely submarine’d him though.

    I don’t want to spin a narrative, just saying that I see an NHL player in Nurse, and the Oilers need to do a better job of deploying/developing that player.

    Here’s a fun fact from Trouba’s rookie year:

    JACOB.TROUBA WITH DUSTIN.BYFUGLIEN:

    TOI 181.02
    RelCF% -8.44
    RelxGF% -8.54

  174. Woodguy says:

    Centre of attention,

    The minutes playing with Schultz/Fayne types while too high in the batting order completely submarine’d him though.

    I don’t want to spin a narrative, just saying that I see an NHL player in Nurse, and the Oilers need to do a better job of deploying/developing that player.

    I have no argument with that or your post at all sir.

  175. wheatnoil says:

    Woodguy: Here’s a fun fact from Trouba’s rookie year:

    JACOB.TROUBA WITH DUSTIN.BYFUGLIEN:

    TOI181.02
    RelCF% -8.44
    RelxGF%-8.54

    TRADE THAT TERRIBLE DEFENCEMAN!!

  176. Woodguy says:

    wheatnoil: TRADE THAT TERRIBLE DEFENCEMAN!!

    IF HE CAN’T PLAY WITH BUFF HOW THE HELL CAN YOU EXPECT HIM TO PLAY WITH LESSER DMEN!!

  177. Centre of attention says:

    Woodguy,

    Thank you 🙂

    I also agree with LT, I don’t believe for a second that Winnipeg values Nurse as much as some like to think.

    Byfuglien also f*cked up Davidson’s knee, so you bet your ass Chevy is hesitating trading for Davey before seeing him healthy and in game action again.

    I suspect if Davidson picks it up where he left off and has an excellent game @ the heritage classic (perfect viewing opportunity for Chevy), the odds of a Davidson+ for Trouba trade increase significantly.

  178. Centre of attention says:

    Woodguy: IF HE CAN’T PLAY WITH BUFF HOW THE HELL CAN YOU EXPECT HIM TO PLAY WITH LESSER DMEN!!

    SOMETHING SOMETHING SOMETHING DEFENSEMAN PLAYING ON OFF-HAND SIDE…..

  179. B.C.B says:

    Lowetide: I think the Oilers would need to find someone with more value than Paigin (via trade). Doubt they trade Davidson and Nurse, and wonder if Reinhart and Davidson is enough.

    I think the question is what is included in a Davidson and the 1st (not lotto protect) for Trouba.

    I don’t think Winnipeg is in a strong position. Most teams are not going to offer up a key piece to their season’s success on the middle of training camp: I think a one for one is what Winnipeg wants, but as the season goes on, they will accept a 3 for 1, etc… Winnipeg is going to get a young LH defenseman or young centre that can play this season, plus a prospect (expansion draft exempt) and a high draft pick.

    Seems like there is going to be more movement (Detroit, Anaheim, Calgary, Trouba, what is Tampa going to do) this training camp than most. I am expecting a couple strange ones, a 3 for 1, a salary dump or two, but I think it is really hard to get a ‘star’ for a ‘star’ trade done during the season.

  180. Ryan says:

    When asked about where he wanted to be traded. Trouba basically said, “Edmonton.”

    Or this, “A place where I have the ability to reach my potential as a right shot D. There’s plenty of need for that in this league. I’ve played on the right side for 18 years. As a 22-year-old, I don’t have the opportunity to do it in Winnipeg.”

  181. raventalon40 says:

    According to Gary Lawless the ask is for a left shot D? Considering the Leftorium, I’d prefer to trade Nurse but if they come asking for one of Sekera, Klefbom, Davidson, have to give it a real consideration and then throw in a pick before Winnipeg changes their mind.

    https://twitter.com/garylawless?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

  182. Centre of attention says:

    Chris JohnstonVerified account
    ‏@reporterchris
    Team Europe coach Ralph Krueger just began an answer with: “When I was fired by Edmonton (while) sitting on my daughter’s bed on Skype…”

    So much shade it’s not even funny…

  183. wheatnoil says:

    Woodguy: Here’s a fun fact from Trouba’s rookie year:

    JACOB.TROUBA WITH DUSTIN.BYFUGLIEN:

    TOI181.02
    RelCF% -8.44
    RelxGF%-8.54

    Another fun fact:

    Darnell Nurse hit 50% corsi with two players.

    He did it in 13 minutes with Griffin Reinhart.

    The other one: Brandon Davidson in 45 minutes.

    Dreamy #2 makes everyone better.

  184. OF17 says:

    Trading Klef is putting too much weight on Davidson and Nurse IMO. They would both need to hit the higher end of their projections to maintain a strong left side, and they’d have to do it in short order.

    Thankfully, I can’t see another team trade a Klefbom for Trouba. Jets fans probably want Lindholm, but Bieksa and Vatanen have Anaheim’s hands tied there, not that swapping Lindholm for Trouba is in their interest anyways.

    Training camp this year is way more interesting than most. Not often you see guys like Trouba, Lindholm, Rakell, Gaudreau, and Kucherov all unsigned at this time of year.

  185. Oil2Oilers says:

    Sekera + Oesterle/Musil + Pick for Trouba

    Jets get team Europe’s best defender now and a reasonable bet plus a pick for the future.

    Oilers get a young RHD and the Cap room and protected player spot needed to sign and keep him.

  186. Centre of attention says:

    Halak vs Price is trending on twitter. Already.

    Never change Habs nation, never change.

  187. Jethro Tull says:

    Sekera. Has. A. NMC.

  188. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Sekera. Has. A. NMC.

    Jets also want a similar age/calibre. 8 year difference there

  189. jm363561 says:

    Jethro Tull: I make that deal ten times out of ten. Can’t think for the life of me why Winnipeg would.

    Agreed.

    However, Pouliot + 1st = Fowler = Trouba, at least looks realistic – I had Davidson or Nurse + 1st. Not saying I would do it mind you, just that it looks like it might have a chance.

  190. Jethro Tull says:

    jm363561: Agreed.

    However, Pouliot + 1st = Fowler = Trouba, at least looks realistic – I had Davidson or Nurse + 1st. Not saying I would do it mind you, just that it looks like it might have a chance.

    How about the ducks and jets just deal Fowler for Trouba and cut Edmonton out thus keeping Edmonton weak at RHD?

  191. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Jethro Tull: How about the ducks and jets just deal Fowler for Trouba and cut Edmonton out thus keeping Edmonton weak at RHD?

    Anaheim is gonna have a hard time keeping Lindholm+Rakell as is, I think Fowler is at 4M and Trouba should get 5.5+

    Lindholm-Trouba would be some kind of pairing if they made it work

  192. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy,

    Nurse is physical and big that’s were the comparison between him and Gudbranson ends. Nurse can skate circles around him. GunbrandonsGudbranson is a box protection D.I Nurse is a poorer box protection D. Nurse can pass the puck and although he was way over his head in the NHL and didn’t try to play offense he can jump into the play. Gunbrandon has no idea that part of the ice exists.

    Reinhart is a box protection D. Is better at passing the puck then Gudbrandon but not physical. Doesn’t do much in the ozone. Skating is suboptimal just like Gudbranson.

    If you take away physicality Nurse is very far away from Gudbranson. Not Burns or Karlsson far, but pretty far

  193. Little Poteet says:

    Centre of attention:
    Nice play by Sekera to get Tartar on that partial break.

    Sekera has been very solid for Europe throughout the tournament. The kind of “steady Eddy” consistency the Oilers will need for this up coming season. Very pleased with his play.

    Did you notice McLellan call him Reggie the other day? Steady Reggie would be just great. No surprises, just effective puck movement and defense

  194. prairieschooner says:

    Sekera has a NMC
    Davidson will have to be protected
    Nurse does not
    Trouba puts heavy pressure on salary cap

    Surely as mentioned if we trade Nurse for Troubadour we will lose Davidson as well.

    Discuss

  195. voxwah says:

    To me Nurse has the crazy eyes. You don’t trade the crazy eyes.

  196. LadiesloveSmid says:

    any way they could get Sekera to waive his NMC and be exposed instead of Davidson? probably not, signed a long deal to keep his family in once place I imagine

  197. Lowetide says:

    voxwah:
    To me Nurse has the crazy eyes. You don’t trade the crazy eyes.

    Eyebrow/60! 🙂

  198. OF17 says:

    prairieschooner:
    Sekera has a NMC
    Davidson will have to be protected
    Nurse does not
    Troubaputs heavy pressure on salary cap

    Surely as mentioned if we trade Nursefor Troubadour we will lose Davidson as well.

    Discuss

    There will be more 2nd pairing D available than 2nd line forwards, so it’s highly unlikely Davidson gets chosen over Yak or Pouliot. Even still, if we lose Davidson and have to run Reinhart at 3LD behind Klefbom, Larsson, Sekera, and Trouba, I won’t exactly be losing sleep.

  199. Woodguy says:

    wheatnoil: Another fun fact:

    Darnell Nurse hit 50% corsi with two players.

    He did it in 13 minutes with Griffin Reinhart.

    The other one: Brandon Davidson in 45 minutes.

    Dreamy #2 makes everyone better.

    Weird.

    Corsica has them 46.74% in 43.8 minutes whereas stats.hockeyanalysis has them at 50% over 45 minutes.

    Both state that its 5v5 TOI as well.

    The other players with Nurse match up (or very close) except that one.

    Interesting.

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