COYOTE UGLY

by Lowetide

Cam Talbot was good—and lucky—and the Edmonton Oilers overcame some of the most insane officiating I have seen in my life to win last night in the Shawshank laundry room. Up next: Alcatraz.

  • Todd McLellan on the Mark Letestu, Matt Hendricks and Zack Kassian line: “Sometimes those guys are stars in their own way, too. The way they grind it out, the way they penalty kill you have to have a whole bunch of different types of ingredients to come up with wins in this League. As the year drags on and games get heavier and harder, those types of players become even more important. We’ve seen them now two games in a row basically take charge of the group and lead us.” Source

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL HELL, YEAR OVER YEAR

  • Oilers in October 2015: 4-8-0, goal differential -7
  • Oilers in October 2016: 7-2-0, goal differential +10
  • Oilers in November 2015: 4-7-2, goal differential -6
  • Oilers in November 2016: 5-8-2 goal differential -3
  • Oilers in December 2015: 7-6-1, goal differential -9
  • Oilers in December 2016: 6-2-3, goal differential +2
  • Oilers after 35, 2015: 15-18-2, goal differential -17
  • Oilers after 35, 2016: 18-12-5, goal differential +9

I am writing this in the moments after the game, and the only words that are coming to me will be wildly inappropriate in the morning. I will say this: 41 points in 35 games, bitches!

DEFENSE, LAST NIGHT

  • NaturalStatTrick, HockeyStats.ca and NHL.com.
  • Klefbom—Larsson went 12-9 together in 12:52. Went 6-6 in 6:22 with McDavid, 2-2 in 3:04 with Leon Draisaitl. Went 0-4 in 5:07 against the Martinook line and 4-9 in 3:34 against the Hanzal line. Killed the Holland line 9-0. Larsson had several good moments defensively, his is the kind of game I enjoy (intelligent defensemen are cool). Oscar found a way to be effective, if a little slow in moving the puck at times.
  • Davidson—Gryba went 12-11 in 11:13 as a duo. Went 8-8 in 5:37 with Letestu, in what were some of the most dynamic and wild minutes in recent Oilers history. Holy lord. Also went 4-0 with McDavid line in three minutes. Went 4-4 in 4:09 against the Hanzal line, 0-3 in 1:30 against Martinook. I did not see the Gryba penalty as the act outside the rules, seemed some bad luck is all. The refs, having a bad night, made a regrettable call. Davidson is finding his way back home now, skating smoothly and make genuinely impressive decisions with the puck in real time.
  • Sekera—Russell went 10-17 in 14:01 together. They were 0-5 with McDavid in 5:30, 6-8 in 6:01 with Leon, that was the heart of the game (Edmonton lost those minutes, despite winning the game). Went 3-7 in 3:55 against Hanzal, 2-3 against Jordan Martinook (Doan line). Sekera looked like he was in pain at the end of the game.
  • Hanzal line went 10-3 against Kris Russell. Others are far better at identifying key matchups the home coach may have been targeting, but that one does stand out to my eye.
  • Cam Talbot was brilliant. Stopped 28 of 30, .933

FORWARDS, LAST NIGHT

  • Hendricks—Letestu—Kassian were epic. I could write a book. At one point, I think they were carrying muskets instead of hockey sticks. Along with some of the physical blue, this trio had the Coyotes howling all night long. Went 5-4 with the Sekera pair, 5-8 with the Gryba pair. Pounded the Dvorak line 7-1, lost 3-9 to the Hanzal line in just 2:19 against while driving Hanzal around the bend. That was an incredible performance from what used to be the fourth line third line.
  • Pouliot—Caggiula—Puljujarvi played about five minutes and went 3-2. They did no harm.
  • Lucic—McDavid—Eberle sawed off the possession battle and had some strong shifts, but only Lucic cashed (and on the power play). Went 5-6 against Hanzal, 2-4 against Martinook and 9-10 against OEL. I know they didn’t score but I liked this line quite a bit last night. Eberle was going well for much of the night and that gave the line some extra jump. Played 7:40 with the Klefbom pairing, I think that is the smart play.
  • Maroon—Draisaitl—Nuge went 6-13 (Nuge) and 10-13 (Maroon) with Leon, who ran with 97-27 for a hot minute. The trio went 6-8 in over 6 minutes with the Russell pairing, 4-4 against Hanzal but 3-6 against Martinook—Doan. I like the line, although the Goligoski—Stone pairing went 13-6 against them last night.

MUGGING MCDAVID

Remember when people would say that the addition of Milan Lucic would change the weather when McDavid was on the ice? Well, and we did know this, the fact is that nonsense happens no matter who plays left wing, and it certainly did last night. Seems we are seeing more holding and mugging and tackling these days, as NHL players try and touch the wind. At some point, the league will alter a rule or two, but we can’t really blame the Coyotes for taking advantage of any and all opportunities. If the refs don’t call the rule book, then it is open season. Same as it ever was.

I am not a bloodthirsty human by nature, but have no quarrel with Zack Kassian’s actions last night. I think people are missing the truly impressive item (the crosscheck was effective but not earth shattering), which came against Anthony Duclair. That was some real boxing expertise there, the Coyote winger probably regrets his aggression. The Doan dance wasn’t much and I expect the league will enforce the inevitable suspension because it is Kassian.

The Coyotes are not the team they are made out to be at this time. Their reputation is as a classy group of veterans and a ragtag group of youngsters, but most nights they should get Academy Award nominations for their ‘Help, I’ve fallen and can’t get up’ antics. I feel bad for OEL, someone needs to get him out of there. Now 14 points behind the Oilers, we wish them well.

OILERS IN REALITY

This will be day 187 of hammering the Oilers for being a lost highway, but the Corisca numbers via Sean Tierney show the team to be turning north with some enthusiasm. The verbal from many blogs and online communities will focus on the team WOWY McDavid, so let’s have a look. The easiest way to do this (I am using Corsi for 5×5, those who don’t value the metric may find this less than convincing) is to run 97s numbers with and without the goalies.

2016-17 WOWYS

  • McDavid with Talbot: 54.3 (483 minutes)
  • Talbot without McDavid: 49.3 (976 minutes)
  • McDavid with Gustavsson: 50.8 (71 minutes)
  • Gustavsson without McDavid: 52.7 (149 minutes)
  • Source

If you value Corsi, and I do, can we reasonably suggest there is progress here? Or should we wait for another 20 games to make sure the Oilers can run 50 percent without McDavid? No one should be suggesting Edmonton is a playoff team without 97, but I think it is fair to suggest there is progress in the WO time this year.

2015-16 WOWYS

 

  • McDavid with Talbot: 52.0 (501 minutes)
  • Talbot without McDavid: 47.7 (2036 minutes)
  • McDavid with Brossoit: 50.0 (72 minutes)
  • Brossoit without McDavid: 48.5 (160 minutes)
  • McDavid with Anders Nilsson: 46.1 (51 minutes)
  • Anders Nilsson without McDavid: 49.5 (1162 minutes)
  • Source

 

Interestingly, the gap is about five points both seasons (McDavid-Talbot) but the without number has improved. I think we can argue about where or not it is enough, and certainly we can discuss sample size. Can we at least agree there are good arrows? Hope so.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

At 10 this morning, scheduled to appear on TSN1260:

  • Darcy McLeod, Because Oilers. Mugging McDavid, Leon progress, replacing Pitlick, is Hall the hill some Oiler fans die on?
  • Jake Sundstrom, Fear the Fin. The Sharks are next up, and they are an interesting team again this year. What does the roster look like now and what about Timo Meier?
  • Frank Seravalli, TSN. Does the NHL have to look at the McDavid muggings, or is the world turning as it should?

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. Talk soon!

 

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JimmyV1965

RMGS: Assuming that the value of ‘intangibles’ is implicit in quantifiable outcomes is positivist reductionism at its worst.

I going to come across like an ahole, but this comment makes you seem like a huge ahole, and you probably are not. First, use language that makes you understood, not language intended to make you look smart. Second, intangibles obviously play some role in the game. If you are denying that, and I really cant tell, then maybe you not so bright.

Philosophil

Eh Team: The major and game misconduct was for the boarding (presumably intent to injure), even though originally they didn’t call a penalty at all.The called it after the refs and linesmen had their little conference.

It’s like when my son’s PeeWee team goes into St Albert for a game.When they have a lead going into the third period, they better be prepared to kill off a lot of penalties.It’s like clockwork.

The NHL refs last night were like hometown St Albert refs.

Ha! Hockey parents in St.Albert find the refereeing in Sherwood Park variable. Kinda like Corner Gas, its Wullerton vs. Dog River.

Sticking with this analogy/thread, I would argue the St.Albert refereeing more closely resembles IIHF than the NHL style reffing. Visiting teams just need to clean up their games. Conversely, St.Albert teams find other locations refereeing slack and permissive at times. Some argue it makes STA teams soft, not ready to battle and play gritty hockey.
Not hometown refereeing in that sense, though.

kinger_OIL

russ99:
We’re taking this way too seriously.

Advanced stats are a tool. Sometimes they’re a hammer and sometimes they’re that wrench we all have without a socket for the bolt you need to remove.

Context is everything.

– You think stats are for tools?
*the precending troll was a paid advertisment

square_wheels

russ99,

You need a handy MF’er like me to help you with that bolt ? ?
The shit I’ve fixed with the wrong tools is likely on par with the repairs with the full Snap-On truck in the parking lot.

linkfromhyrule

Todd Macallan: Maybe it’s at least a start

This is about all we can hope for at this point. I have seen articles from several of the Edmonton-based MSM in the last few days criticizing the excessive non-calls. Hopefully the centre of the universe will start to run with it too. The only way Bettman takes notice is if there is a big enough stink raised, or people vote with their wallets.

Where is the NHLPA in all this? The rules are there to protect players and to provide them a framework within which to play the game. How does it benefit anyone if players can take liberties that are explicitly against the rules and not be called for it? These things are detriments to players in two ways:

1) They reduce goals and points. This likely reduces earning potential by their members because that is (mostly) what players are paid for. It is also what fans want to see!
2) They increase injury, either directly resulting from the uncalled infraction, or from “eye for an eye” BS due to liberties being taken. This quite obviously hurts both players and teams.

Where is the upside in this? I’m genuinely confused what the league’s justification is apart from a wobbly argument about interrupting the flow of the game. I would say awful non-calls and obstruction ruin the game more than anything.

I pay to see Mcdavid fly through the neutral zone and set up goals, not some 4th line plug doing his best impression of a water skier on our best player.

square_wheels

Fog of Warts,

I basically decided that language and thought are the same thing—if words didn’t get in the way.

Damn. I’m now stuck wrestling with this. So many questions form as I consider what the relationship between humans and technology. In the future, extrapolating where we are today – Will we still speak to each other ? Will our true intent just be transferred without the salt and pepper of words ?

I get consumed with this.

Then I go outside – Cntl/Alt/Delete

Chachi

Bruce Wayne:

What to do?What todo?

Are you taking suggestions?

Todd Macallan

Touching on the idea of the importance of the MSM calling out the officiating in order to actually see some change in the future, the Oilers were featured as “The Lead” on Tim & Sid today.

After discussing that both are believers of the team and their playoff chances, Sid had a nice little rant on how ridiculous the non-calls on Connor are. He used the video example of Martinook going for a toboggan ride last night.

Nice to see we aren’t crazy and a couple of the bigger talking heads out east are bringing up the point in primetime. Maybe it’s at least a start.

gogliano

Looking at the Pacific Standings today it sure looks like this is a five team race — featuring the teams from California & Alberta — for four spots.

Maybe it splits 5/3 in favor of the Central but I doubt Dallas or Winnipeg have the horses to make up the ground on the 4th best team in the Pacific. And in the Pacific, Vancouver and Arizona should be consulting LT on best practices for a 2017 draft watch.

russ99

We’re taking this way too seriously.

Advanced stats are a tool. Sometimes they’re a hammer and sometimes they’re that wrench we all have without a socket for the bolt you need to remove.

Context is everything.

Bag of Pucks

RMGS: Assuming that the value of ‘intangibles’ is implicit in quantifiable outcomes is positivist reductionism at its worst.

Good to know. And what is the academic parlance du jour of assuming they have nil value in quantifiable outcomes?

As a thought experiment, let’s break it out of the hockey realm for a moment. Consider the objective to summit Mt. Everest. Are human intangibles intrinsic to that athletic endeavour or can it all be solely expressed as interrelated measures of the body’s efficiency?

leadfarmer

Georges,

How dare you question advanced stats? You might anger the God of advanced stats cursing the oilers with another decade of bad corgis

leadfarmer

Going back to yesterdays thread. Hall’s departure was not a result of the lottery, well at least not directly. Halls departure was as a result of the franchise being hurt last year without any retaliation from the rest of the team. As soon as I saw that, I said bye bye cluster. Thats the reason I won the predict the future poll in the offseason because I knew after that injury that they will go hard after Lucic and you cant have that much money tied to the least important position in hockey, wingers. No one was going to give you much more than a mid first round pick for Eberle so Chia traded Hall for something he could use. Now I was hoping for them to keep Hall for another year but I knew he was gone by the time the ELCs expire.

--hudson--

OT: Regarding two of McDavid’s former junior teammates. Debrincat cut from the US team. Raddysh makes Canadian team.

digger50

Yes. I am also noticing a lot of Oilers Nation type of comments purposely trying to poke someone in the eye. Shame.

I loved the game last night.

Lots of love for the warrior type player today. Plus these guys were playing as well, And playing to make a difference. Last two games I believe we have seen a team coming together.

In regards to Gryba, he hits all the time, that is his game. Nothing wrong with his hit per se, it was just his “Archie Goldie” like bum drop to the head that came off as excessive. (Accidental)Even more unfortunate was once the young fellas helmet popped off, Gryba used his head as a starting block to
Push off with his skate. And you know Chychrun felt it as he pulled back sharply. Skate blade was a close call but nothing intentional.

DaveWatchesHockey

I think it’s possible for someone (for one complete human individual):

– To respect advanced stats
– To enjoy the posts by the stat gurus here
– To agree with the moves Chiarelli has made
– To enjoy the Oilers in their current state
– To have a man crush on Kassian

Just sayin’

Dave

Bruce McCurdy

Thorin: I agree with you and others that say Gryba was not at fault for his contact with Chychrun’s head.

Kerry Fraser saying exact same on the Gregor show. Exonerated Gryba. Says Kassian should have got 2 for cross-checking OEL, no more. Thought OEL’s hit on Hendricks was clean.

frjohnk

Thorin:
On a different topic.

LT: Kassian’s Crazy Eyes picture there is perfect for this article.

Love Kassian as an Oiler.

Guy can play any type of hockey and play well.

And besides McDavid, I think he gets the most breakaways on this team.

He should be good for about 10 goals without any reviews. 0 for 3 this month I believe, goals/reviews.

One of Chia’s best bets

Thorin

Bruce McCurdy:
1)the game sheets were rife with errors. One of them is that both Gryba majors were recorded as the fight with Schenn, rather than one for fighting and one for hitting to the head (as announced on the PA).

2) the hit to the head was an utterly bogus call. Sorry Prof Q. Gryba had already fully committed to the hit when Chychrun lurched forward leading wit his head at waist level to avoid the first hit. Gryba’s ass hit Chychrun’s shoulder. When Chychrun slid he took out Gryba’s feet & he fell on him in slow motion. Not sure what he could have done different short of being born with more fast twitch fibre.

3) OEL’s hit on Hendricks was clear boarding, yet to read the game sheet (or listen to Craig Button) you’d think Kassian just assaulted OEL for no reason. (game sheet has been corrected to show the foul was on OEL, not Duclair (which somehow went unpenalized as well).

4) the refs didn’t call boarding at any point. Klefbom got blown up early in the game on a dirty hit from behind, later Hendricks drilled Chychrun, but nothing. They instead saved their whistles for dangerous fouls such as stick lifts or shooting a deflected puck over the glass.

5) I’ll stand by my tweet after the final buzzer that this was one of the worst-officiated games I’ve ever seen. Which is to say, a lot of games.These guys were rank incompetents & most of the bad blood was a direct result of that.

Thanks for the extra detail Bruce. I wasn’t at the game so couldn’t hear what was announced over the PA. I agree with you and others that say Gryba was not at fault for his contact with Chychrun’s head. Also, if they called it a major and a game misconduct for an illegal check to to the head, then they called a penalty that doesn’t exist in the book – it’s a minor or a match, never a double minor or a major or a misconduct or a game misconduct. If it’s a high stick, then it could be a minor or a double minor or a major or a match.

Play-by-play shows Gryba getting two fighting majors against Schenn and Kassian getting a match against Ekman-Larsson. If you scroll to the bottom of the right-most column, there’s a section that says “Official Game Reports”. There, the full play-by-play shows Gryba getting a mjor and a fighting major against Schenn and earlier today showed Kassian getting a match against Duclair, but now shows him getting a match against Ekman-Larsson.

You’re right, we can’t really even trust the game play-by-plays to have recorded things correctly.

And you’re right, the refs could’ve kept this game in hand by simply calling the boarding and hitting from behind as soon as it happened.

edit: fixed links

Melvis

Jeez, and I was impatient for the pseudo intellectual’s parry. It certainly didn’t take long. Distracted and overladen as it usually is – with that forever extended, infantile paralysis, and over fondness for Taylor Hall’s over ripe lips. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Either that or some other distraction when proven wrong headed – the maggoty deflection of neighbor’s cancer e.g., or whooping cough, or the ever infectious foot in mouth disease.

Bats in the belfry. It’s a thing.

Jordan

If you were the NHL, would you:

Recognize you are Failing to get enough trained referees out on the ice to do the job effectively every night, and consider hring additional refs off the ice to do the job properly? Cuts into the bottom line – not a great profit generator.

Continue to put your players at risk, and deal with zero consequences from the NHLPA who refuse to look after the wellbeing of their members? Free publicity, low chance of lawsuit.

I’m pretty sure they’d pick the second option.

Good thing the NHLPA is staffed by former-NHLers. Helps make sure the young guys get thoroughly hazed. Because that’s not illegal at all any more.

Professor Q

Just saw the Arizona feed of the Ekman-Larsson hit. Holy crap what bias.

Apparently the E-L hit on Hendricks was beautiful and awesome, but Kassian “blew up E-L”, threw off his gloves before anyone came at him, and Doan got him good, and “someone should get that guy, how tough do you feel now Kassian?”.

Yikes. But I suppose we’re all prone to bias and tribalism.

New Improved Darkness

Dawkin’s first encounter with Neil Tyson, San Diego, 2006.

I had just given a talk in which I was critical of the religiously inclined ecologist Joan Roughgarden [no shit]. At question time Neil delivered a polite but serious — and impeccably phrased — attack on my style:

I was in the back row as you spoke … and so I could see sort of the whole room as the words came out of your mouth as beautifully as they always do and us articulately as they always do. Let me just say your commentary had a sharpness of teeth that i had not even projected for you. …

You’re Professor of the Public Understanding of Science, not professor of delivering truth to the public, and these are two different exercises. One of them is, you put the truth out there, like you said, they either buy your book or they don’t. Well that’s not being an educator. That’s just putting it out there.

Being an educator is not only getting the truth right, but there’s got to be an act of persuasion in there as well. Persuasion isn’t always ‘Here’s the facts, you are either an idiot or you’re not.’ It’s ‘Here’s the facts, and here is a sensitivity to your state of mind.’ And it’s the facts plus the sensitivity, when convolved together, creates impact. And I worry that your methods, and how articulately barbed you can be, ends up simply being ineffective, when you have much more power of influence than what is currently reflected in your output.

I was conscious that the chairman, Roger Bingham, was anxious to wrap up the session, so I replied briefly:

I gratefully accept the rebuke. Just one anecdote to show that I am not the worst in this thing. A former and highly successful editor of New Scientist magazine—he actually built up New Scientist to great new heights — was asked: What is your philosophy at New Scientist? He said, “Our philosophy in New Scientist is this: Science is interesting, and if you don’t agree you can fuck off.”

To the jovial sound of Neil Tyson’s bellow of laughter, Roger Bingham closed the session.

A few pages earlier, Dawkins confesses to having once paxmanned the then Archbishop of York, John Habgood, on the matter of the virgin birth.

I wouldn’t handle the encounter in the same way now — perhaps I have become more compassionate than I was, but I find I can’t now bear hitting someone who is down.

Journalist reporting on the debate:

He [the correspondent] overheard a gloomy cleric, comment on the debate: ‘That was easy to sum up. Lions 10, Christians nil.’

———

Jeremy Paxman

His regular appearances on the BBC Two’s Newsnight programme were sometimes criticised as aggressive, intimidating and condescending, yet also applauded as tough and incisive.

Jeremy Paxman’s infamous Michael Howard interview

A glorious minute. Seems so far, far away, as to almost be a relic from Middle Earth.

———

I woke up the other morning with a clanking sound welling up from my subconscious. I could almost palpably feel my entire cognitive turret turning onto a new target. Jackendoff’s question, whether and to what degree language and thought are of entirely the same cloth, nearly incapacitated me for several weeks.

Language is naturally pattern forming. When these patterns overstay their welcome, we call it “cliche”. Language is inherently a slippery slope. Like a path in the woods, with each repetition, the path becomes a more definite thing. Ideally, cliches attract worms, and are soon mulched into soil, while new leaves constantly arrive from above. The harder you shake the tree, the deeper your soil. But you’re still only as good as your next leaf.

I basically decided that language and thought are the same thing—if words didn’t get in the way. At it’s most patterned extreme, language isn’t like thought at all, it’s the complete opposite.

———

It’s not an easy trap to escape. Problem: your pattern removal tool soon becomes a pattern. If there’s a thing, there’s the pattern of the thing.

Then you step back, and soon you realize that you’re taking on the entirety of human discourse.

One pattern of human discourse is Hugo Mercier’s argumentative theory (I’ve mentioned this in months and years past), which is that persuasion is job #1 and logic—so far as we have it at all—was late, late, late to the party. By logic we mean here maintaining a certain standard of global self-consistency, but this too soon becomes a nasty reductive corset, until Whitman is forced to declare “So I contradict myself. I am large. I contain multitudes.” Damn straight. Fresh foliage does not arrive in logical order. Logic is the putrescine of soil ecology, that which, in sufficient quantity, soon attracts worms (if you’re lucky enough to have any).

The sentence itself—the glorious sentence—also has a role to play in contributing to premature hardening. That’s the main difference. Try as one might, the sentence is always somewhat more pattern-fixed than the thinking behind the sentence. I try, sometimes, like a jazz musician, to never play the same note once, to discard every phrase after a single, mayfly utterance. This, too, when overdone, becomes weary work, on both sides.

Father, I have sinned.

———

My subconscious announced to me the other morning that I’ve reached the end of my journey on sabotaging the sentence from within (after a somewhat ugly final showdown). Clank, clank, clank. Apparently, I’m onto discourse now.

For language to be like thought, it must flow like thought, and thought mainly flows sideways. This runs entirely across the natural grain of Mercier’s argumentative theory, where it’s all about getting the most wood behind the strongest arrow, tipped with Dawkins’ glass accent and patented put-down medicine.

One day I sat down and the lateral pass was no longer a play in my playbook. It had become my playbook. (This was before I heard the clanking.) Every musical convention I’ve learned about how one subject prepares for the next was on the table, or the chopping block, or whatever it is (it sure would be nice for my subconscious to inform me someday soon).

I looked up to discover that I had just written a ghastly twelve-tone row. Clever, inventive, fresh, and ghastly. Oh dear. Looks like I’ll be a magnet for ill-fitting glass slippers for a long while.

Father, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

———

I listened to a podcast last week on signalling theory. I thought it was pretty good. Mainly because Judith is clearly a woman who thinks before opening her yap. Like Lowetide, she’s got the instinct to always land on the right side of every phrase, whenever false doors present themselves.

Judith Donath on Signaling, Design, and the Social Machine.

You look at how what we can see of others online, almost everything is signal. You can’t directly see if somebody is tall. You only can see if they have written, you know, ‘I am tall.’ Or if there’s a photograph, but it’s intended to show them that way. And so, understanding the dynamics of signaling is really, really important in understanding how online communities work.

A lot of the theory, in looking at signaling, is about trying to understand, given how profitable it can be to lie or to deceive or to exaggerate, what keeps communication honest enough to function? Because if everything was made up and nothing was true, there would be no reason to pay attention to anything. It wouldn’t give you any new knowledge.

And so, that whole dynamic of how an equilibrium is established that makes communication honest enough to function is the focus of signaling theory. And that’s why it’s so important to understand the online world, where almost everything is signal. And how we design different spaces changes the economics of how reliable they are.

Well, as you start the journey to depart the normal structure of argumentative discourse, very much a signal, what you end up signalling instead—loud and clear—is that you’re an ass.

But this is great, because now words are your ally again. You’ve got exposed cracks to fill, and if it cakes on, so much the better.

jzed

The ref watching Conner getting mugged behind the play should be looking for work this morning. Next game, Murphy should be stapled to the glass all game, and when Done(yes I meant to type that) wades in late, kick the shit out of him. Who is on the farm we can up after the bench emptying payback?

Side

Bruce Wayne: The aggression, rudeness, and trolling is, and always has been, one sided.

You’re referring to your behavior in this case, right?

Or am I witnessing the biggest, richest piece of irony on the internet?

prairieschooner

LT I absolutely loved your show today
You were on a different level with your rants and repartee
The Lieutenant was superb as well
Also you should be thanking Chia for giving you the great material to work with

Cassandra

It’s funny. On the one hand, a major theme of this thread is the abject stupidity of the referrees that results from the intentional instructions of the NHL to referree the game in such a way that they can interfere with the result (i.e. enforce parity) should they desire. This is one of my favourite hobby horses and I’d like to join in.

On the other hand, the other theme of this thread is a certain kind of Oiler fan humiliating themselves by doubling down on their inability to think while casting malicious aspersions in a misguided attempt to restart the holy war as if this game, or this season, were evidence in their favour. Another example of the misfortune of the mob from oilersnation moving to this site. Now bashing simpletons over the head is another one of my favourite hobby horses and I am always up for a fight.

What to do? What to do?

In any case remember this thread the next time the holy war erupts. The aggression, rudeness, and trolling is, and always has been, one sided.

Melvis

Today, I find myself exactly 4 months shy of the Beatles, “When I’m 64”. It’s a poor preamble, but if memory serves (and it might not), I haven’t seen officiating this bad since, I dunno, maybe the Broad St bully days.

That red mist descending wasn’t healthy last night, and it’s reiteration certainly isn’t today, but I suspect that scene of Murphy taking down McD behind the play – for gord knows how many seconds – with the striped, petty bureaucrat looking on – is permanently etched into memory.

“Welcome to the bigs, you snotty over rated kid. You’re on the cusp of 10 figure multi-generational wealth, but never forget, my lawn, my rules.”

There’s only one word for it. Kafkaesque.

I can only hope it proves cathartic to the NHL. Even the NFL saw fit to fire it’s worst officials. JFC. Enough already.

Professor Q

On a side note, I really, really, want to see what Caggiula and Puljujärvi can do in Bakersfield. I think it’s best for everyone, and thus doubt it will happen.

Bruce McCurdy

1) the game sheets were rife with errors. One of them is that both Gryba majors were recorded as the fight with Schenn, rather than one for fighting and one for hitting to the head (as announced on the PA).

2) the hit to the head was an utterly bogus call. Sorry Prof Q. Gryba had already fully committed to the hit when Chychrun lurched forward leading wit his head at waist level to avoid the first hit. Gryba’s ass hit Chychrun’s shoulder. When Chychrun slid he took out Gryba’s feet & he fell on him in slow motion. Not sure what he could have done different short of being born with more fast twitch fibre.

3) OEL’s hit on Hendricks was clear boarding, yet to read the game sheet (or listen to Craig Button) you’d think Kassian just assaulted OEL for no reason. (game sheet has been corrected to show the foul was on OEL, not Duclair (which somehow went unpenalized as well).

4) the refs didn’t call boarding at any point. Klefbom got blown up early in the game on a dirty hit from behind, later Hendricks drilled Chychrun, but nothing. They instead saved their whistles for dangerous fouls such as stick lifts or shooting a deflected puck over the glass.

5) I’ll stand by my tweet after the final buzzer that this was one of the worst-officiated games I’ve ever seen. Which is to say, a lot of games. These guys were rank incompetents & most of the bad blood was a direct result of that.

Minister D-

The NHL, sadly, can’t ‘sit’ referees because there are too few of them. One of the reasons that the refereeing has been worse than usual lately is a dramatically shallower pool of options (fewer new refs make NHL officials training camp nearly every year).

But their performances are monitored every game by onsite officials, and they are hit where it hurts–their wallets–for poor work during the season by not being assigned playoffs.

npanciroli:
That was an embarrassment for the NHL. The kind of work most people would lose their jobs for. The fact the Coyotes are owned by the league makes the optics even worse. If I was the league and wanted the game to be better I would rescind the Kassian auto suspension and fine all the dives and have the refs sit out for a period of time.

They need to fix the obstruction quick I’m finding my interest fade when you can’t watch the stars play the game without getting mugged. The game got out of hand when Klefbom got hit from behind early no call. Sets the stage, guys know things are more open.

Need to go back to 2006. Call everything early guys won’t cheat as much.

Eh Team

Thorin: I think I’m done complaining about this. NHL reffing just sucks, just completely sucks. 13yo first-time refs do a better job.

The major and game misconduct was for the boarding (presumably intent to injure), even though originally they didn’t call a penalty at all. The called it after the refs and linesmen had their little conference.

It’s like when my son’s PeeWee team goes into St Albert for a game. When they have a lead going into the third period, they better be prepared to kill off a lot of penalties. It’s like clockwork.

The NHL refs last night were like hometown St Albert refs.

Thorin

On a different topic.

LT: Kassian’s Crazy Eyes picture there is perfect for this article.

Thorin

Hope is a good thing:
Thorin,

Clearly Gryba’s hit was a blatant infraction; a textbook violation of Rule 58, Butt-ending!

Hah! Okay, that got a laugh out of me.

Now back to fixing bugs in these statistical analysis reports… Almost Christmas Break time!

Hope is a good thing

Thorin,

Clearly Gryba’s hit was a blatant infraction; a textbook violation of Rule 58, Butt-ending!

Thorin

That we’re sitting here trying to understand what the penalties were even for or what event they were handed out for, that tells you just how stupidly this game was reffed.

Gryba and Schenn got into a fight, and both got fighting majors. Schenn clearly came in and started it, he got the instigator. Okay. Gryba apparently did something else to Schenn as well that earned him a major – the game play-by-play lists Gryba’s second major as having been drawn by Schenn. Watt? Did anyone else see Gryba do anything else to Schenn besides fight back when Schenn started swinging at him?

Kassian crosschecked a guy at the boards and was not called for it, but had Duclair come after him. Kassian had dropped his gloves, obviously ready to fight, and threw the first punch at Duclair (who everyone can see was clearly coming in to tune him up). He gets a match penalty for that (since the play-by-play shows it was Duclair the drew the penalty)? And Duclair, clearly looking for a fight, gets nothing?

I’ve watched that little scene so many times. Ekman-Larsson fully deserves a diving penalty there.

ugh

I think I’m done complaining about this. NHL reffing just sucks, just completely sucks. 13yo first-time refs do a better job.

Thorin

Justthestatsman: For what it’s worth, I checked the game summary on nhl.com and it has Gryba getting two separate fighting majors with Luke Schenn at 5:42, while Schenn received one fighting major against Gryba.Interestingly, it also has Kassian’s match penalty at 19:16 against Anthony Duclair, not OEL.The crosscheck to OEL must have been okay!

Holy crap, you’re right. http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20162017/PL020494.HTM. Schenn’s penalties are events 245, 247, 248 (instigator, fighting, misconduct). Gryba’s penalties are events 246, 249, 250 (fighting, fighting, game misconduct).

How the hell do you assign two fighting majors to the guy who is not the instigator, who is swinging to defend himself, and who stops once the linesmen step in?

But at least that explains the stupid their-guy-swung-at-our-guy-now-we’re-killing-a-penalty situation.

But it still defies logic.

Also, apologies to those who I said were wrong.

edit: wait, I’m still not reading it correctly. Gryba got a major, a fighting major, and a game misconduct. So it doesn’t even say what that first major was for. But if it was for Illegal Check To The Head, that’s still the wrong call according to the rulebook.

I wonder what that major was then for.

classict

hankster:
Does anyone know why it’s so quiet in the other camp today?you know, the one occupied by fans of the previous “core”
Too bad they will only see maybe one of the those four players play in the Oil SCF in two to three yrs.

Is it quiet? What radio piece did you have today? 😉

khildahl

who: Obviously that is a mistake. You can’t get two fighting majors for one fight.

You’d think that.

The Yahoo game summary shows him with a 5 minute fighting served by Maroon, a 10 minute instigator served by Puljujarvi, and a 10 minute game misconduct (yet with 20 PIM in total).

How you can have 2 instigators in a fight is a mystery.

delooper

who: Obviously that is a mistake. You can’t get two fighting majors for one fight.

Gryba is so mean and scary, he gets a fighting major for looking at you sideways.

who

Justthestatsman: For what it’s worth, I checked the game summary on nhl.com and it has Gryba getting two separate fighting majors with Luke Schenn at 5:42, while Schenn received one fighting major against Gryba.Interestingly, it also has Kassian’s match penalty at 19:16 against Anthony Duclair, not OEL.The crosscheck to OEL must have been okay!

Obviously that is a mistake. You can’t get two fighting majors for one fight.

Eh Team

who: Maybe I am making some assumptions but the way the penalties played out Gryba must have got the extra 5 and game for something.

Gyrba got 20 minutes in penalties including 2 majors. Schenn got the instigator, so the Oilers were short for 3 minutes.

who

Thorin: You’re not quite right there, Gryba got 5 for fighting and then a game misconduct.He did not get a second 5.The only way to know why he was given a game misconduct is to read the ref’s post-game write-up, which are confidential so we’ll never know.Rule 23.3 lists what are the categories that you can get a game misconduct for:

None of these come close to Rule 48 – Illegal Check To The Head, which by the way specifically doesn’t allow a major penalty or game misconduct penalty to be called, only a minor penalty or match penalty.The one thing that wasn’t specifically listed was Abuse Of Officials.I dunno, maybe he told the refs to go fuck themselves?If not, the team should put in a written request to have the game misconduct reviewed as it does not appear to hold water according to the rulebook.

Maybe I am making some assumptions but the way the penalties played out Gryba must have got the extra 5 and game for something.

Justthestatsman

Thorin: You’re not quite right there, Gryba got 5 for fighting and then a game misconduct.He did not get a second 5.The only way to know why he was given a game misconduct is to read the ref’s post-game write-up, which are confidential so we’ll never know.Rule 23.3 lists what are the categories that you can get a game misconduct for:

None of these come close to Rule 48 – Illegal Check To The Head, which by the way specifically doesn’t allow a major penalty or game misconduct penalty to be called, only a minor penalty or match penalty.The one thing that wasn’t specifically listed was Abuse Of Officials.I dunno, maybe he told the refs to go fuck themselves?If not, the team should put in a written request to have the game misconduct reviewed as it does not appear to hold water according to the rulebook.

For what it’s worth, I checked the game summary on nhl.com and it has Gryba getting two separate fighting majors with Luke Schenn at 5:42, while Schenn received one fighting major against Gryba. Interestingly, it also has Kassian’s match penalty at 19:16 against Anthony Duclair, not OEL. The crosscheck to OEL must have been okay!

leadfarmer

I have no problem with Kassian hit. That was a dirty play by OEL and he follows it up with some crosschecks to Hendricks who was on the ground. Kassians hit was a get off my guy kind of hit and he definitely didnt hit him 100% and hit him to knock off his own guy. When is the last time you saw a guy stick up for his teammate like that.

Thorin

who:
Don’t usually complain about reffing but it was brutal last night. The most questionable hit by an oiler was Hendricks first hit on chychrin

I completely agree, that was the first of several dangerous checks from behind, and the referees just let it continue. At least three times while watching the game, I said, “That’s a check from behind, that’s supposed to be an automatic 5 and a game, what the hell!” And I said it about both Oilers and Coyotes.

I can’t find the comment back, but someone today or yesterday said that the IIHF just calls everything in the rulebook that they see, and it makes for a better game. That’s absolutely right. The Canadians usually get penalized more in IIHF games, due to Canadian players from the NHL and AHL being used to “game management” rather than “rulebook says don’t do that”.

If the IIHF refs had been calling this game, Hendricks would’ve been out with 5 and a game for the check from behind on Chychrun, Murphy would have received a double-minor for his crap on McDavid, and the game would’ve been a much better showcase for skill.

blainer

SayItAin’tSo, Gretz, SayItAin’tSo!:
Ahhhhh sweet sweet justice!

The ref’s were a farce! The Oilers still won

Coyote players were tackling McDavid! The Oilers still won

Eric Gryba gets tossed on a blown call. The Oilers kill off the penalty and win

The Oilers win in Arizona, yes yes yes!

You know what words I like typing more than anything? Oilers Win!!!!

Dammit, very excited today (can only bet how Blainer is feeling).

Chance to head into the Holiday break riding a four game winning streak, leading the division and having two scorers in the top 10 with the McCaptain leading the league!

Go Oilers Woot Woot!

Feeling great as usual.

Never got to watch the game as it was too late for my time zone. Watched the highlights and just love the guys picking up for one another.

This team is really coming together.. you can really see it after last night. I am even more optimistic after that game. People are gonna be surprised when we finish out the year with an 18 – 4- 3 record in the last 25 games.

There will be a few bad games here and there but don’t let the odd losing streak get ya down.

The oilers are finally a team in the NHL !!

Hankster

Does anyone know why it’s so quiet in the other camp today? you know, the one occupied by fans of the previous “core”
Too bad they will only see maybe one of the those four players play in the Oil SCF in two to three yrs.

Thorin

Offside: And that was basically the point of my questions. I’d offer that the value of intangibles (if any) should result in ameasurable effect. However, there are some areas of the game where trying to find the cause of these measurable effects are too vague to offer definite conclusions.Therefore we fill in the blanks with our own assumptions
I suppose in my own way, I am trying to encourage some sort of humility from both sides.

The measures we have now, especially DFF, seem to correlate really well with goals. Thus we can say with some confidence that teams with high DFF will likely score more goals and win more games. You’re looking for something that isn’t currently being measured that would correlate really well with DFF. So start measuring?

I don’t think any of the statisticians that comment on this blog would argue with you that currently-unmeasured events don’t have an effect on the game. I think what they would tell you is that we can’t say with any confidence whether these currently-unmeasured events correlate with a positive or negative effect on the game. The only way to say that with confidence is to start measuring them. You know, the scientific method – come up with a hypothesis, then find data that proves or disproves it.

Otherwise you’re left with this: you say that Kassian’s big hit at the end of the game will help the team win games, maybe I say that Kassian’s big hit at the end of the game will cause him to be suspended for several games and for refs to watch him more closely so he’ll get more penalties and thereby making it harder for the team to win games. So which one of us would be right? Can’t tell, don’t have the data, now it’s down to just opinion. And when it’s down to just opinion, everybody climbs into their ivory tower on their hill and refuses to allow others to sway their opinion. And then we’re all yelling and screaming over each other. Not useful at all.

edit: note that I say “maybe” in there, I’m not actually saying I think Kassian’s hit and fight was a bad thing, I’m stating a hypothetical situation.

Side

I think one of the very few times I agreed with Remenda was when he was discussing Gryba’s hit.

Gryba was already skating backwards for the check, Kassian knocked Chych down, and Gryba checked Chych in the shoulder/chest area. He didn’t target the head and I don’t see how Gryba could have avoided hitting Chych at that point. Could Gryba have like, dove into an opposite direction once he saw Chych go down behind him? Maybe. But what’s the point if you’re already in the process of hitting Chych cleanly?