BARE TREES

I’d love to know what kind of information Todd McLellan uses when making a roster choice. The biggest decision this fall is his second pairing, and to begin training camp he has chosen Kris Russell with Matt Benning. Why? If we run Puck IQ’s “elite” numbers, we see Benning is in fact a solid bet to replace Andrej Sekera based on his own past.

PUCK IQ, OILERS BLUE VERSUS ELITES

Benning spent 31 percent of his overall time on ice against elites, substantially more than Darnell Nurse and Eric Gryba. I don’t know that McLellan uses analytics like Puck IQ, but his Benning decision matches the metric. By that I mean, if we were sending an email to the coach about who to play in place of Andrej Sekera, Benning is next man up on this list. It doesn’t prove McLellan uses analytics, he could be using his eyes and experience to reach that decision. The fact that it’s the correct one bodes well no matter the process, but it would give us some measure of comfort to know the coach observes and values analytics.

DO TRAINING CAMP LINES MEAN ANYTHING?

I think there are things we can learn from a coach in terms of his mindset. For instance, Ryan Strome is going to get a push this season and Todd McLellan wants that chemistry to form early. Strome scored a goal in yesterday’s scrimmage, that’s a good arrow and a flood of shots by the former Islander will be very helpful.

Farther down the lineup, I’m not sure it holds the same kind of importance. Yesterday’s scrimmage featured defensive pairings Auvitu-Simpson, Lowe-Fayne and Lagesson-Bear. Caleb Jones and Ryan Stanton were the extra’s. I don’t think we can imply Dillon Simpson or Keegan Lowe are ahead of Ryan Stanton, nor that William Lagesson or Ethan Bear are ahead of Caleb Jones. I do believe these defenders are being observed and assessed and that the organization values them enough to invest important training camp time on them. But ranking these players based on usage in scrimmages? No. If Dillon Simpson plays six exhibition games and Keegan Lowe two, and Lowe isn’t injured, for me that’s a tell. We need more information and it starts tomorrow night.

OILERS PRACTICE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC!

From 10:45 this morning until 1:30 this afternoon, the Edmonton Oilers will be holding an open practice. I’ve had many ask me when the team would be holding open practice and today’s the day! A great opportunity to see the team on the ice and I imagine there will be a scrimmage again today.

WHAT DO  WE KNOW SO FAR?

  • Ryan Strome is going to get the first shot on Connor McDavid’s line.We knew it, but actually seeing it sets all  kinds of things in motion. Opponents are going to have a helluva time matching up if Leon Draisaitl can push a river, but the Strome piece was key.
  • Jordan Eberle didn’t fit the ‘style’ portion of what Chiarelli and McLellan are trying to build, Strome is a bit of a different type. Strome will look more like a Bruins winger than Eberle did, so the grit/battle portion of the resume isn’t going to be a question. If Strome can shoot more often, something he did upon arrival in New York, this could work.
  • Keegan Lowe is in the mix for first recall. If Auvitu is the 7D, then (imo) all of Lowe, Simpson, Fayne and Stanton have a chance. Not a one of them is a puck mover, that gives Auvitu a decided edge for that final roster spot. Lowe’s advantage? He plays a rugged and agitating style, moreso than Simpson or Fayne. Stanton is under consideration too. Fayne is a righty and that gives him an advantage in this area.
  • Joey Laleggia and Kailer Yamamoto both got a push yesterday. Early days, but good arrows.
  • Drake Caggiula got bumped down the lineup for a time during scrimmage (info courtesy Ryan Rishaug) and Yamamoto was elevated. Something to keep in mind, remember the isue for Caggiula, Slepy and Puljujarvi is offense in the coming year. This is a big item during training camp.
  • Jussi Jokinen missed practice yesterday. Probably nothing, but something to keep in mind as we roll along.
  • Jesse Puljujarvi is a player to watch this week. One of the three goals yesterday came from RW, Todd McLellan will want to see production from his starboard troops during the season.

GOD’S FLASHLIGHT

  • If the current lines hold, Ryan Strome’s number is going to rise and Leon Draisaitl’s is likely to go down. If both can hover around 1.80-2.00, we should see 35-40 points from both men in a full season. That kind of production, on two separate lines, would represent tremendous production.

EV/60 2016-17

  • Woodguy mentioned to me the other day that Leon Draisaitl’s even-strength scoring offered another angle on his impressive season. The 2.36/60 number (compared to the 5×5) suggests Leon was fire 4×4 and 3×3. Makes sense, I wonder if Leon and McDavid run together a lot in those game states this coming season.
  • Ryan Nugent-Hopkins also enjoys an uptick in this metric.

 

 

 

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261 Responses to "BARE TREES"

« Older Comments
  1. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Jesus Christ.

    Calling a NHL defender a pussy.

    What happened to this place?

    It’s going to hell in a hand cart I’m telling you! When this place left blogger it was a snowball headed for hell and we’re on the home stretch! take me now, lord!

  2. Chachi says:

    Lowetide: It’s going to hell in a hand cart I’m telling you! When this place left blogger it was a snowball headed for hell and we’re on the home stretch! take me now, lord!

    This is the big one! https://youtu.be/stdi-1tIUhM

  3. Johnny says:

    Just as an aside (sort of) did anybody notice what the Blackhawks did to their lineup after a couple early playoff exits?

    Hjalmersson and Panarin out, Saad and Connor Murphy in.

    Notice anything similar with those two? I bet the stats say the guys they got rid of are better, yet Stan Bowman feels Murphy and Saad give him a better chance to win. And I thought Stan Bowman was one of the good ones!

    They only saved $250,000 in cap room.

  4. GMB3 says:

    Johnny:
    Just as an aside (sort of) did anybody notice what the Blackhawks did to their lineup after a couple early playoff exits?

    Hjalmersson and Panarin out, Saad and Connor Murphy in.

    Notice anything similar with those two?I bet the stats say the guys they got rid of are better, yet Stan Bowman feels Murphy and Saad give him a better chance to win.And I thought Stan Bowman was one of the good ones!

    They only saved $250,000 in cap room.

    They would have never been able to keep Panarin in two years and Hjarllmasson is on an expiring contract

  5. Johnny says:

    Kjalmersson has two years as well.

    It wasn’t just a money move.

    I do believe we are going to hear a lot less about how good Jhalmersson is going forward and are going to start hearing a lot more about C Murphy. Just my humble prediction.

  6. GMB3 says:

    Johnny:
    Kjalmersson has two years as well.

    It wasn’t just a money move.

    I do believe we are going to hear a lot less about how good Jhalmersson is going forward and are going to start hearing a lot more about C Murphy. Just my humble prediction.

    Well one guy is 30 and one guy is 24 so that’s probably what should happen.

  7. OilHub says:

    hunter1909,

    Thanks for running this Hunter, I’m forecasting 106 for point.
    Thanks again.

  8. Johnny says:

    GMB3: Well one guy is 30 and one guy is 24 so that’s probably what should happen.

    Haha, true.

  9. kgo says:

    russ99,

    The ads and clickbait will be there soon enough

  10. kgo says:

    frjohnk: Without a doubt yes.

    EDIT:Wherever one stands in the Lucic/Larsson >=< Hall/Demers islands.

    Neither of these two groups is worth a 9 point difference.

    How about a 33 point difference? 😉

  11. godot10 says:

    Johnny:
    Just as an aside (sort of) did anybody notice what the Blackhawks did to their lineup after a couple early playoff exits?

    Hjalmersson and Panarin out, Saad and Connor Murphy in.

    Notice anything similar with those two?I bet the stats say the guys they got rid of are better, yet Stan Bowman feels Murphy and Saad give him a better chance to win.And I thought Stan Bowman was one of the good ones!

    They only saved $250,000 in cap room.

    Murphy and Saad are younger and signed for much longer…i.e. cost contained at their current salaries.

    Hjalmarsson and Panarin are only signed for one or two more years each, and will have to be re-signed more multi-millions more.

    Bowman is trying to reload on the fly without taking too far of a step back. The Seabrook contract is a killer (as Lucic’s might be). Arizona can afford to re-sign Hjalmarsson and his addition with help them re-sign Ekman-Larsson.

  12. season not played says:

    Woodguy v2.0: The fact that you think Pysyk and Petrovic are marginal doesn’t surprise me.

    You probably couldn’t pick them out of a line up,

    You know their results were better than Ekblad right?

    I was trying to hedge a little bit by calling them marginal top four d. Last season was Pysyks first full season in the NHL and Petrovic has yet to play a full season. So really until they prove otherwise consistently they are actually bottom pair guys that pushed Demers out.

    Operating in reality breeds credibility.

    Also, I can imagine not getting your ego pumped by fancy disciples is frustrating. Personally I find the comments section here considerably better now that everything isn’t focused on something/60.

  13. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: You are right, this is a different comment section than it used to be. Your posts, even the controversial ones used to be grounded in reality.

    What isn’t reality about what I’ve said about Demers?

    As soon as this trade came down my entire Twitter timeline explodes with “I guess Hall isn’t the price you have to pay for a top 4 defender”

    I come here and its like opposite George where everyone sees ARI get a top 4 Dman for a 3rd line as validation for their preconceived notions about a player they’ve never seen play and couldn’t pick out of a line up.

    Its the weirdest thing I’ve witnessed on this blog.

  14. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Johnny: Hall.

    Demers.

    I didn’t write down your predictions. Exactly how far up the standings does Arizonas stellar defense bump them?

    “YOUR WRONG!!”

    About what?

    DEMERS!!!!

    Which part?

    “I DON’T KNOW!!!!”

  15. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Lowetide: It’s going to hell in a hand cart I’m telling you! When this place left blogger it was a snowball headed for hell and we’re on the home stretch! take me now, lord!

    I blame Laforge.

  16. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Johnny,

    Exactly how far up the standings does Arizonas stellar defense bump them?

    Last year EDM finished 33 points ahead of ARI.

    I’m willing to bet its less than 20 this year.

  17. IceDragoon says:

    season not played: I was trying to hedge a little bit by calling them marginal top four d. Last season was Pysyks first full season in the NHL and Petrovic has yet to play a full season. So really until they prove otherwise consistently they are actually bottom pair guys that pushed Demers out.

    Operating in reality breeds credibility.

    Also, I can imagine not getting your ego pumped by fancy disciples is frustrating. Personally I find the comments section here considerably better now that everything isn’t focused on something/60.

    What a load of bullshit!

    Woodguy is continually trying to learn more about this game we all love, & sharing what he has learned. I thank him for that. Does he go off on a strange tangent from time to time? Yup. That’s a side effect of learning & sharing, & after some respectful back & forth conversations, reason generally prevails.

    You, on the other hand, add nothing to move the conversation forward.

    You continually attack, insult & ‘move your goalposts’ for your own, selfish, reasons.

    That makes you nothing more than a TROLL.

    I have no time or strength to fight against closed-minded bullies anymore, but…

    your utter bullshit

    … needed to be called out by someone who still cares about having a forward thinking Lowetide community. “Genie’s out of the bottle…”

  18. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Johnny: I bet the stats say the guys they got rid of are better, yet Stan Bowman feels Murphy and Saad give him a better chance to win.And I thought Stan Bowman was one of the good ones!

    They only saved $250,000 in cap room.

    You bet eh?

    Saad is rated as the best on CBJ last year and top 50 in the NHL, Panarin isn’t there.

    More spewing about things you don’t know.

  19. Lowetide says:

    IceDragoon: What a load of bullshit!

    Woodguy is continually trying to learn more about this game we all love, & sharing what he has learned. I thank him for that. Does he go off on a strange tangent from time to time? Yup. That’s a side effect of learning & sharing, & after some respectful back & forth conversations, reason generally prevails.

    You, on the other hand, add nothing to move the conversation forward.

    You continually attack, insult & ‘move your goalposts’ for your own, selfish, reasons.

    That makes you nothing more than a TROLL.

    I have no time or strength to fight against closed-minded bullies anymore, but…

    your utter bullshit

    … needed to be called out by someone who still cares about having a forward thinking Lowetide community. “Genie’s out of the bottle…”

    I love you, Louise.

  20. IceDragoon says:

    Lowetide,

    Ditto, L.

  21. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    GMB3: They would have never been able to keep Panarin in two years and Hjarllmasson is on an expiring contract

    Get facts out of this thread

  22. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    kgo:
    russ99,

    The ads and clickbait will be there soon enough

    At the Athletic?

    That’s the opposite of their business model so I’d bet very heavily against it.

  23. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: What isn’t reality about what I’ve said about Demers?

    As soon as this trade came down my entire Twitter timeline explodes with “I guess Hall isn’t the price you have to pay for a top 4 defender”

    I come here and its like opposite George where everyone sees ARI get a top 4 Dman for a 3rd line as validation for their preconceived notions about a player they’ve never seen play and couldn’t pick out of a line up.

    Its the weirdest thing I’ve witnessed on this blog.

    Citing your twitter timeline is the weakest appeal to authority I have ever seen. How many analytics hires have been made from people who used to be on your twitter timeline? Seems like none of those teams had any time for Jason Demers even when he was available for a salary swap. His time as an effective top 4 d-man is over. The stats you posted support that.

  24. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    IceDragoon,

    Wow.

    I’m feeling verklempt.

    Thanks Louise.

  25. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi,

    Sighting your twitter timeline is the weakest appeal to authority I have ever seen. How many analytics hires have been made from people who used to be on your twitter timeline?

    Here are the teams that have hired from my twitter timeline:

    CAR
    PIT
    VAN
    ARI
    FLA
    WSH
    EDM – for 2 seasons
    CGY
    MTL
    NJD
    SJS
    TOR

    A number of people I discuss this with also consult with teams on a contract basis (like Corey Schnjeider)

    It wasn’t so much an appeal to authority as “why is the comment section at Lowetide to hostile to analytics and coming to bizarre conclusions like this trade validates the Hall-Larsson trade when it actually makes it look worse?”

    Seems like none of those teams had any time for Jason Demers even when he was available for a salary swap..

    We know that VAN tried to trade for him but Demers shut it down with him NTC, there may have been others. You don’t have perfect information on this, neither do I.


    The stats you posted support that.

    The results I posted showed that he was fairly close to the rest of their corps. Worse on some than others, better on some than others.

    The fact that he plays on a reasonable Dcorps doesn’t mean he’s not a top 4 guy.

    Using TOI and QoC, he is easily described as a “top 4” . The fact that they ran all 3 pairs like most teams run their 2nd pair doesn’t diminish that.

    His time as an effective top 4 d-man is over

    There is no evidence to support this position.

    Is every player Tallon trades “over”?

    He bought out one of his most effective forwards last year who had a shitty PDO. Is Joikenen “over”?

    Was Radim Vrbata’s career over when Tallon traded him for Kevyn Adams?

    Are you really appealing to the authority of the GM who signed Dave Bolland for $5.5M x 5, drafted Lawson Crouse 11th overall and blew up CHI’s 10 year rebuild because he didn’t get his qualifying offers in on time?

  26. Jethro Tull says:

    Hey LT, what’s the record length of time for a thread ‘Last Word’-ing?

  27. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Are you really appealing to the authority of the GM who signed Dave Bolland for $5.5M x 5, drafted Lawson Crouse 11th overall and blew up CHI’s 10 year rebuild because he didn’t get his qualifying offers in on time?

    No, I’m not.

  28. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: You don’t have perfect information on this, neither do I.

    This has never stopped you from making pretty definitive statements in the past.

  29. Chachi says:

    Jethro Tull:
    Hey LT, what’s the record length of time for a thread ‘Last Word’-ing?

    This one’s going to set the record.

  30. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Is every player Tallon trades “over”?
    He bought out one of his most effective forwards last year who had a shitty PDO. Is Joikenen “over”?
    Was Radim Vrbata’s career over when Tallon traded him for Kevyn Adams?

    None of this has anything to do with Jason Demers.

  31. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Are you really appealing to the authority of the GM who signed Dave Bolland for $5.5M x 5, drafted Lawson Crouse 11th overall

    Ironic:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/panthers-trade-bolland-crouse-coyotes-two-draft-picks/

    “We are very pleased to acquire Lawson,” said Coyotes GM JOHN CHAYKA. “He’s a big, physical, power forward who is a strong skater with good hands. Players of his caliber and profile are extremely hard to find.”

  32. Georges says:

    IceDragoon: What a load of bullshit!

    Woodguy is continually trying to learn more about this game we all love, & sharing what he has learned. I thank him for that. Does he go off on a strange tangent from time to time? Yup. That’s a side effect of learning & sharing, & after some respectful back & forth conversations, reason generally prevails.

    You, on the other hand, add nothing to move the conversation forward.

    You continually attack, insult & ‘move your goalposts’ for your own, selfish, reasons.

    That makes you nothing more than a TROLL.

    I have no time or strength to fight against closed-minded bullies anymore, but…

    your utter bullshit

    … needed to be called out by someone who still cares about having a forward thinking Lowetide community. “Genie’s out of the bottle…”

    Hey! You were on LT’s list of interesting posters who don’t post as much as they used to.

    As a more recent someone who also cares about having a forward thinking Lowetide community, please, please, please post more.

  33. Georges says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    IceDragoon,

    Wow.

    I’m feeling verklempt.

    Thanks Louise.

    WG, I agree with IceDragoon. I argue with you a lot. But my attitude towards your work on the site is the same.

  34. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: This has never stopped you from making pretty definitive statements in the past.

    Your statement seems to be made exclusively based on the trade and not his play.

  35. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: Ironic:

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/panthers-trade-bolland-crouse-coyotes-two-draft-picks/

    “We are very pleased to acquire Lawson,” said Coyotes GM JOHN CHAYKA. “He’s a big, physical, power forward who is a strong skater with good hands. Players of his caliber and profile are extremely hard to find.”

    So now I’m responsible to defend every move by a GM because I like this one?

    C’mon.

  36. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Your statement seems to be made exclusively based on the trade and not his play.

    It isn’t.

  37. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: So now I’m responsible to defend every move by a GM because I like this one?

    C’mon.

    No you are not responsible to defend every move. Just a funny coincidence that you brought up Crouse as an example of Dale Tallon’s incompetence and the same GM who traded for Demers seems to love Crouse. That isn’t an interesting fact to you?

  38. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: None of this has anything to do with Jason Demers.

    So why don’t you like Demers?

    You’ve said its not because Tallon traded him.

    Is it his results?

    You can read about his pre-FLA results here: http://becauseoilers.blogspot.ca/2016/04/oiler-right-shot-dman-search-1-jason.html

    His key Rel’s last year:

    DFF% Rel -0.50

    GF% Rel -0.83

    So he’s a hair off their norm.

    Why is ” His time as an effective top 4 d-man is over. “?

  39. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: No you are not responsible to defend every move. Just a funny coincidence that you brought up Crouse as an example of Dale Tallon’s incompetence and the same GM who traded for Demers seems to love Crouse. That isn’t an interesting fact to you?

    Why aren’t you mentioning cash poor ARI takes the insured Bolland contract for their cap hit and get Crouse as a tax?

    Picking a player 11th overall is not equal to being the payment to take on (yet another) shitty Tallon contract.

    Why are you trying to equate those two situations?

    There’s a large difference between “would you like a free Crouse with your Bolland contract” and taking him 11th.

  40. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: So why don’t you like Demers?

    You’ve said its not because Tallon traded him.

    Is it his results?

    You can read about his pre-FLA results here: http://becauseoilers.blogspot.ca/2016/04/oiler-right-shot-dman-search-1-jason.html

    His key Rel’s last year:

    DFF% Rel -0.50

    GF% Rel -0.83

    So he’s a hair off their norm.

    Why is ” His time as an effective top 4 d-man is over. “?

    You think that stats line says top 4 d-man? On a team that was bottom 3rd of the league in goals against and shots against? He was a hair off the norm on a bad d. Somehow they were among the best in the league in penalty killing so most of the leaking was done at 5V5 which is what you like to look at, correct? No shame in getting beat out by younger better players, but the results last year were bad. Also that pink suit he’s wearing in the picture on your post is atrocious.

  41. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Why aren’t you mentioning cash poor ARI takes the insured Bolland contract for their cap hit and get Crouse as a tax?

    Picking a player 11th overall is not equal to being the payment to take on (yet another) shitty Tallon contract.

    Why are you trying to equate those two situations?

    There’s a large difference between “would you like a free Crouse with your Bolland contract” and taking him 11th.

    You brought it up not me. I found it interesting.

  42. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: You think that stats line says top 4 d-man? On a team that was bottom 3rd of the league in goals against and shots against? He was a hair off the norm on a bad d. Somehow they were among the best in the league in penalty killing so most of the leaking was done at 5V5 which is what you like to look at, correct? No shame in getting beat out by younger better players, but the results last year were bad.Also that pink suit he’s wearing in the picture on your post is atrocious.

    The overall CF% and DFF% tend to be dictated by the coaches system and the Rels show us who the better players are on the team.

    We see it all the time when players are traded. Their CF%/DFF% changes significantly if they went from good/bad team to bad/good team, but the Rels not as much if their role didn’t change much.

    Here’s a good example.

    Tell me if you can spot the year Petry left Edmonton? (CF%)

    20102011 48.39
    20112012 47.86
    20122013 41.96
    20132014 45.92
    20142015 46.17
    20152016 53.06
    20162017 52.53

    His Rel’s were close to even and even negative for more than a few of those year too.

    Back to Demers:

    He also had a 986 PDO which helps explain the lower GF% compared to DFF%.

    If you assume that Demers can’t do the job based on these results then I guess you assume Ekblad can’t either. 3 years in and he’s hasn’t had positive Rels away Campbell since he got to the NHL.

    Sum up: If you come to the conclusion that Demers is done based on the results I posted in this thread I strongly disagree with you as that is not what they tell me.

  43. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: You brought it up not me. I found it interesting.

    Ok.

    Your first post states “ironic”, not “interesting”.

    Ironic comes with a lot of connotations that interesting doesn’t.

  44. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Ok.

    Your first post states “ironic”, not “interesting”.

    Ironic comes with a lot of connotations that interesting doesn’t.

    I’ve never been able to use ironic correctly.

  45. Chachi says:

    Woodguy v2.0: If you assume that Demers can’t do the job based on these results then I guess you assume Ekblad can’t either. 3 years in and he’s hasn’t had positive Rels away Campbell since he got to the NHL.
    Sum up: If you come to the conclusion that Demers is done based on the results I posted in this thread I strongly disagree with you as that is not what they tell me.

    Ekblad’s at the beginning of his career, Demers is not. Context matters. Logic matters. I guess we disagree on Jason Demers as a player. I am comfortable with that.

  46. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi,

    Also that pink suit he’s wearing in the picture on your post is atrocious

    You misspelled fantastic.

  47. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: I’ve never been able to use ironic correctly.

    That’s ironic.

  48. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Chachi: Ekblad’s at the beginning of his career, Demers is not. Context matters. Logic matters. I guess we disagree on Jason Demers as a player. I am comfortable with that.

    I agree with all that.

    Demers is 29 and far from done, unlike this thread which probably finally is.

  49. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Georges: WG, I agree with IceDragoon. I argue with you a lot. But my attitude towards your work on the site is the same.

    Thanks Georges.

    I love arguing with you.

    We argue about our facts and what they mean.

    Great conversations that move things forward.

  50. IceDragoon says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thank you, Darcy.

    Do me a favour?
    Engage in discourse with any & all who are trying to move the conversation forward, but please don’t dance for the trolls. I would be very sad to lose your ‘voice’ here. Too many curious minds have already been ‘frustrated’ away.

  51. Georges says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Thanks Georges.

    I love arguing with you.

    We argue about our facts and what they mean.

    Great conversations that move things forward.

    The feeling’s mutual, sir.

    To echo IceDragoon’s advice, not responding is also a response.

  52. IceDragoon says:

    Georges,

    Good day, Georges.

    I enjoy reading your comments.

    I would like nothing more than to join in the daily conversations at Lowetide’s, but we all have limitations & my days of trying to do more than mine allowed are long gone.

    Any appearances I make will be rare & quite brief.
    Sorry about that.

  53. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    IceDragoon:
    Woodguy v2.0,

    Thank you, Darcy.

    Do me a favour?
    Engage in discourse with any & all who are trying to move the conversation forward, but please don’t dance for the trolls. I would be very sad to lose your ‘voice’ here. Too many curious minds have already been ‘frustrated’ away.

    Now that I’m an almost an adult (45yr) I’ve finally learned to take advice from respected sources.

    I will take yours for sure.

    Thank you.

  54. theDjdj says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Arizona wanted him.

    I’ll agree the price was marginal, but not everyone pays full value and one-sided trades happen often.

    I think really this is the crux of the Hall trade argument.

    I just wanted to say Woodguy that I value your comments even if I don’t necessarily agree with all of them. You stick to the courage of your convictions and that’s admirable. Please don’t feel like it’s you against the world here, I imagine there’s a lot of silent readers who value you like I do.

  55. Georges says:

    IceDragoon:
    Georges,

    Good day, Georges.

    I enjoy reading your comments.

    I would like nothing more than to join in the daily conversations at Lowetide’s, but we all have limitations & my days of trying to do more than mine allowed are long gone.

    Any appearances I make will be rare & quite brief.
    Sorry about that.

    No need to be sorry. My loss for not having been around in earlier days.

    Rare & quite brief & incisive. Cheers!

  56. Johnny says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Johnny,

    Exactly how far up the standings does Arizonas stellar defense bump them?

    Last year EDM finished 33 points ahead of ARI.

    I’m willing to bet its less than 20 this year.

    Excellent. How much are you willing to bet? I’m in for $100.

  57. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Johnny: Excellent. How much are you willing to bet?I’m in for $100.

    Sure.

    Loser donates to the charity of the winner’s choice.

    Proof to be provided of donation.

  58. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    theDjdj: I think really this is the crux of the Hall trade argument.

    I just wanted to say Woodguy that I value your comments even if I don’t necessarily agree with all of them. You stick to the courage of your convictions and that’s admirable. Please don’t feel like it’s you against the world here, I imagine there’s a lot of silent readers who value you like I do.

    Thanks, I appreciate that.

  59. Johnny says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Sure.

    Loser donates to the charity of the winner’s choice.

    Proof to be provided of donation.

    Done

  60. season not played says:

    theDjdj: I think really this is the crux of the Hall trade argument.

    I just wanted to say Woodguy that I value your comments even if I don’t necessarily agree with all of them. You stick to the courage of your convictions and that’s admirable. Please don’t feel like it’s you against the world here, I imagine there’s a lot of silent readers who value you like I do.

    Ditto WG.

    Chin up buckaroo.

  61. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Johnny: Done

    G’luck!

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