Armed Forces

We’re at (about) the halfway point of the season and it is a good time to have a look at NHL equivalencies. I like to use them as a quick overview, important not to project them as actual factual. You can see things at a glance across several leagues and in the case of forwards identify the group of players who still have a chance to emerge on skill lines in pro hockey.

THE ATHLETIC!

Great offer! Includes a free 7-day trial so you can try The Athletic on for size free and see if they enjoy the in-depth, ad-free coverage on the site. If you don’t feel it’s worth the $4.49/month, cancel anytime during trial before getting charged. Offer is here.

NHLE FORWARDS

  • Age is the big deal here. Hebig turns 21 in two days, Tyler Vesel is 23, Ty Rattie is 24. These gentlemen are talented offensive players but are more mature, have less opportunity to grow.
  • The stars of this table are Kirill Maksimov (18) Tyler Benson (19).
  • Kailer Yamamoto (19), should be the leading man here (and I suspect he will be at the end of the year).
  • Also showing well (but not projecting as skill line players at this time) are Ostap Safin and Graham McPhee. Aapeli Rasanen is hovering.
  • AHL best? Ty Rattie, with Joey Laleggia and Grayson Downing also in photo.

NHLE DEFENSE

  • Ethan Bear has adjusted well to pro hockey in terms of offense, his NHLE is about equal to Jordan Oesterle when he was an AHL rookie (Oesterle was 22). Klefbom at 20 had an NHLE of 8.0, so beware when projecting and comparing defensemen points.
  • Caleb Jones is lagging by the boxcars but he’s really coming on now, bet this is a closer race by the end of the year.
  • Filip Berglund is a nice player based on boxcars, Dmitri Samorukov is showing promise and William Lagesson is a player to watch. The rest? We’ll wait and see. Projecting offense for defensemen is voodoo.

WHO IS LEAVING?

Fussy britches has the Maple Leafs interested in Oscar Klefbom, it’s a noxious idea from start. I follow myriad Toronto fans and bloggers, all of whom agree there’s no way Mitch Marner or William Nylander are going anywhere. This quickly gets you to ‘there’s no deal that makes sense’ but one imagines a full day of twitter bringing up names like Kasperi Kapanen, Connor Carrick, Connor Brown and Andreas Borgman. No thanks, I’ll pass on trade discussions in this regard. It is insane to trade away young players who are established in the NHL and have excellent contract. Beyond foolish.

Anton Slepyshev is gone, just a matter of NHL or KHL at this point in my opinion. Some hold out hope he’ll get back in the lineup with Nuge out, my suspicion is that Iiro Pakarinen gets that gig. Patrick Maroon, Mark Letestu and Mike Cammalleri are all more likely than not to be dealt and I do think we could see a defenseman (lesser of Klefbom) being traded at the deadline.

Heading into the summer, it’s my belief that the Oilers cluster, which includes Connor McDavid, Leon Draisaitl, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Jesse Puljujarvi, Oscar Klefbom, Adam Larsson, Darnell Nurse and Cam Talbot should stay intact. NMC’s Milan Lucic, Andrej Sekera and Kris Russell will also return. From the remaining group, I’ll put in a good word on Matt Benning, Brandon Davidson, Jujhar Khaira, Zack Kassian. It’s going to be a busy summer.

As for management, man I’ll tell you the verbal around this city is crazy. If you made me guess, the two scenarios that appear to be playing out are:

  • No sudden moves until spring, allowing the entire organization to catch its breath, and then a measured summer with Peter Chiarelli and Todd McLellan remaining.
  • No sudden moves until spring, when someone currently inside the organization taking over as general manager (with a coaching decision to come). I think it might be Wayne Gretzky, or that 99 will have more of a say, and it might be Keith Gretzky. Don’t count out Craig MacTavish or Kevin Lowe. Is Larry Gordon still in the front office? Throw him in too.

That’s a beautiful mask, ladies and men. Great cause and worn by the man who guided this team to its first playoff games in a decade.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy Friday and things could get loud! At 10 this morning, TSN1260, scheduled to appear:

  • Steve Lansky, BigMouthSports. Eric Lindros and the Flyers finally bury the hatchet.
  • Jarrett Bell, USA Today. Massive NFL weekend.
  • Matt Iwanyk, TSN1260. Point-CounterPoint gets after Aussie Open and NFL matchups.
  • Kaitlyn McGrath from the Athletic. Canada’s out, Australia’s too hot for movement.

10-1260 text, @Lowetide on twitter. See you on the radio!

 

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273 Responses to "Armed Forces"

« Older Comments
  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    I’m not on board with any sort of “intentional tanking” although I’m not sure if I really know what that means.

    I am definitely on board with selling our UFAs for futures but, at the same time, I will be watching every game day/night ultimately hoping for wins.

    I have no control over the outcome of games, I’ve realized that, so I just watch – somewhat disengaged from emotion but still caring.

    Wins are great. Draft position improvement from losses is a silver lining.

    It win-wins all over the place.

  2. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    You don’t see the reason?

    For years the team was filled with small skilled wingers and little depth at C or D and now, that the wingers have been traded away and there is great depth at C and LD, the fans are clamoring for a trade to acquire a small skilled winger.

    We have one small skilled winger in junior who will be turning pro next year – 50/50 if NHL ready

    Hebig is also turning pro next year and is small and skilled, albeit a center – likely a winger when pro.

    I’m looking forward to the bigger skilled wingers being NHL ready, if ever (Maksimov, Safin).

    We have the worst scoring on the wings in the league. We don’t need to move major assets and create holes in the roster to get that closer to league average, especially considering the skill of the centre’s they play with.

    Winger production or strength down the middle are not mutually exclusive, that’s a false dichotomy.

    Even assuming Yamamoto is an NHL plus winger next year, and if Strome returns, we that’s 4 wingers(Lucic, Yama, Strome, Pulju) for 6 spots in our top 9, another hole at 4LW, and zero cover for injury.

  3. Thinker says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    You don’t see the reason?

    For years the team was filled with small skilled wingers and little depth at C or D and now, that the wingers have been traded away and there is great depth at C and LD, the fans are clamoring for a trade to acquire a small skilled winger.

    We have one small skilled winger in junior who will be turning pro next year – 50/50 if NHL ready

    Hebig is also turning pro next year and is small and skilled, albeit a center – likely a winger when pro.

    I’m looking forward to the bigger skilled wingers being NHL ready, if ever (Maksimov, Safin).

    What is your deal with Hebig? He is an overager, and it’s not like he is as good as Mitch Holmberg. You are way too high on our prospects. Everybody has guys lighting up junior. Benson and Moto may turn into top 6 players, the rest are a long shot to play top 6. We need wingers because we have 2 top six guys for next year. One will struggle to get to 20G and 50pts this year, and is trending down. The other is a raw youth scoring at a 22G 31pt pace. This team is lottery bound again next year unless somebody is brought in, and because we have no legitimate prospects, it will cost a roster player. Since we have 0 wingers, it has to be a C or a D. We don’t need 3LD as good as the ones we have. Sekera at the very least should be available.

    As it stands, we are short two top line wingers. JP might address one of those slots. Betting on Benson or Yamamoto to be a top line winger is pretty wishful thinking, as it is fairly rare prospects turn out that well, and even if they do, you are looking at probably 2-3 years before they get there. At that point, you are looking at core pieces of the team becoming UFA such as Nuge and Larsson. Talbot is likely gone by that point as well.

    If you want to start another rebuild, we can do that, but we are several years away, most want to speed up the process, since the core of the team was built to compete in the window of the next five years. This years draft is mostly dmen, which take awhile to develop (usually). There is no immediate help coming, and contrary to popular belief, first line wingers don’t grow on trees. This is a team and organization that is ridiculously unbalanced. Which is hard to believe because a couple years ago they were completely unbalanced in the other direction. At least now they have 2 strengths (C and LD) as opposed to one (elite wing talent). Progress, right?

  4. Admiral Ackbar says:

    I’d suggest one of two solutions for this team:

    1. Give jobs to those that have proven expertise with a similar type of team (skill team) in a similar league (if not already the NHL). They should not have been justly run out of their previous job (see PC and TMac) or gifted a job based on their playing-days (MacT and Mr. Tier 1).

    2. Ritualistic human sacrifice.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: We have the worst scoring on the wings in the league. We don’t need to move major assets and create holes in the roster to get that closer to league average, especially considering the skill of the centre’s they play with.

    Winger production or strength down the middle are not mutually exclusive, that’s a false dichotomy.

    Even assuming Yamamoto is an NHL plus winger next year, and if Strome returns, we that’s 4 wingers(Lucic, Yama, Strome, Pulju) for 6 spots in our top 9, another hole at 4LW, and zero cover for injury.

    There is talk of acquiring Mitch Marner – we would have to move major assets to make such acquisition.

    I just find it “interesting” that, for years, this team had incredible depth of small skilled wingers and the fan-base screamed for that to change and to build at center. Now that they are devoid of small skilled wingers and are deep at center there are those looking at acquiring Mitch Marner – which, yes, would cost major assets.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    Thinker,

    My deal with Hebig is that he is an Oilers prospect and I will therefore discuss him.

    I have never professed that he is anything special – in fact, I’ve expressed that he will likely never play in the NHL.

    At the same time, he is an offensively skilled player that is turning pro next year and I look forward to seeing how he does in Bakersfield – he will be part of a decent infusion of talent up front next year in Bakersfield.

    I’m sorry, I don’t feel like talking about the Reinhart trade or the Hall trade or how Strome is a bust or how the assistants should be fired or how Chiarelli is the worst GM ever or how McLellan is stubborn.

    I’m going to choose to make some posts about things that are Oilers related that I enjoy.

    Sorry if that bothers you – feel free to skip my posts.

    Yes, we are short a top 6 winger spot next year, maybe two – I’ve expressed that many times over the years. I’ve recently expressed my desire to have Strome play 3C for the rest of this year to see if can handle that role opening up the ability for Drai and Nuge to play wing in the top 6 next year to bridge the gap before prospect graduation.

    Happy to chat about that scenario – “he’s a bust” isn’t that condusive to conversation mind you.

    I guess the other “logical” option is trading for Mitch Marner.

  7. Admiral Ackbar says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Thinker,

    My deal with Hebig is that he is an Oilers prospect and I will therefore discuss him.

    I have never professed that he is anything special – in fact, I’ve expressed that he will likely never play in the NHL.

    At the same time, he is an offensively skilled player that is turning pro next year and I look forward to seeing how he does in Bakersfield – he will be part of a decent infusion of talent up front next year in Bakersfield.

    I’m sorry, I don’t feel like talking about the Reinhart trade or the Hall trade or how Strome is a bust or how the assistants should be fired or how Chiarelli is the worst GM ever or how McLellan is stubborn.

    I’m going to choose to make some posts about things that are Oilers related that I enjoy.

    Sorry if that bothers you – feel free to skip my posts.

    Strong attempt at deflecting. Thinker has a fair point. The cupboards are pretty empty and the simple fact that there’s a discussion around Hebig suggests how bleak the outlook may be. While Thinker is quite critical of you here, I don’t think that branding him as a complainer is constructive to our dialogue.

  8. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: There is talk of acquiring Mitch Marner – we would have to move major assets to make such acquisition.

    I just find it “interesting” that, for years, this team had incredible depth of small skilled wingers and the fan-base screamed for that to change and to build at center.Now that they are devoid of small skilled wingers and are deep at center there are those looking at acquiring Mitch Marner – which, yes, would cost major assets.

    Say Marner costs Klefbom. Do you not do that?

  9. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar: There is talk of acquiring Mitch Marner – we would have to move major assets to make such acquisition.

    I just find it “interesting” that, for years, this team had incredible depth of small skilled wingers and the fan-base screamed for that to change and to build at center.Now that they are devoid of small skilled wingers and are deep at center there are those looking at acquiring Mitch Marner – which, yes, would cost major assets.

    To be fair, many of us wanted C’s to complement the wingers, not to replace them.

    Poor Hemsky…

  10. Thinker says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Thinker,

    My deal with Hebig is that he is an Oilers prospect and I will therefore discuss him.

    I have never professed that he is anything special – in fact, I’ve expressed that he will likely never play in the NHL.

    At the same time, he is an offensively skilled player that is turning pro next year and I look forward to seeing how he does in Bakersfield – he will be part of a decent infusion of talent up front next year in Bakersfield.

    I’m sorry, I don’t feel like talking about the Reinhart trade or the Hall trade or how Strome is a bust or how the assistants should be fired or how Chiarelli is the worst GM ever or how McLellan is stubborn.

    I’m going to choose to make some posts about things that are Oilers related that I enjoy.

    Sorry if that bothers you – feel free to skip my posts.

    Yes, we are short a top 6 winger spot next year, maybe two – I’ve expressed that many times over the years.I’ve recently expressed my desire to have Strome play 3C for the rest of this year to see if can handle that role opening up the ability for Drai and Nuge to play wing in the top 6 next year to bridge the gap before prospect graduation.

    Happy to chat about that scenario – “he’s a bust” isn’t that condusive to conversation mind you.

    I guess the other “logical” option is trading for Mitch Marner.

    I don’t think Strome is a bust, but he is what he is. I doubt he is the answer at 3C, and trying him there means you have to pay him 3mil or he becomes UFA. It’s probably safer to get some value out of him. If you can find a 3C, you could go XXX McDavid Draisaitl. You are still short a 1LW. I have a hard time seeing Benson and Moto being ready for that, especially benson. A lot would have to go right, to have things sort themselves out on their own. Something like Drai McDavid JP, Lucic Nuge Moto. I think that’s a bit of a stretch, since JP isn’t at a first line level yet (might get there), and I’m not sure Moto is prime time ready next year either. I could see him being in the 2-3rd line calibre, but I’m not sure putting him in that position would be a good idea at this point. Particularly if we aren’t running our unicorn formation, and he turns out to be a 3rd line calibre player. Then you need to find an entire 3rd line from somewhere that is actually capable of doing something. Maybe Khaira is one, but he might be 4C.

    I also think that nobody wins by being perfectly balanced. They win being fairly balanced, with one or two positions that are way above average, and usually one is goaltending. For example, Nashville’s D and G were awesome, and their offense was OK. Pittsburgh’s forwards and goalie were great, but their defense was a little iffy. Chicago had a fantastic offense, good top 4, and an alright goalie. Last year we had a great goalie, center depth, enough RW and LW depth, and an ok defense. This year we have an ok goalie, great centers, LD, OK RD, and craptastic wings.

  11. Pouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Tough to evaluate players (their effort level, their chemistry with others, their progress, their potential, their assets and their deficiencies, etc.) and decisions of the coaching staff without watching games but to each their own..

    Yes because I need to see more to evaluate TMc. Chia and the rest of the dead weight on this team. No thx.

  12. Thinker says:

    Admiral Ackbar: Strong attempt at deflecting. Thinker has a fair point. The cupboards are pretty empty and the simple fact that there’s a discussion around Hebig suggests how bleak the outlook may be. While Thinker is quite critical of you here, I don’t think that branding him as a complainer is constructive to our dialogue.

    I don’t mean to come off as critical. I like OP, but I just try to be realistic about what is coming. Obviously I want Hebig to be good, but I would prefer some more reasonable bets.

  13. Wilde says:

    We literally need 5 NHL wingers if Maroon and Strome go, and Yamamoto isn’t ready.

    And there’s no help coming.

    Being against winger hunting is insane to me.

  14. AsiaOil says:

    Side: But the Islanders were also the ones who drafted Reinhart #4 overall in the first place. You’re praising a team that drafted a complete bust who then later drafted someone good.

    No teams are perfect in their draft picks or can predict the future.

    Touche and great point. Rather ironic that the folks who think Snow was so brilliant by drafting Barzal forget he was also the guy who drafted Reinhart #4. I guess Yzerman is also a moron for drafting Mitchell Stephens in our 2nd round slot instead of Carlo or Aho.

    Complaining about Barzal is a totally pointless exercise. You can complain about every pick that is not optimal made by every team, every year. It’s like complaining about people not buying bitcoin in 2012 with today’s information. Yes some people did buy it, and you can mock people who didn’t by saying how obvious it was, but it’s a ridiculous exercise. Of course you need to look back, assess your success, and try to improve your drafting, but that’s a different issue entirely based on reality. Not some alternate universe where different decisions were made.

    The failure and the mistake was picking Reinhart as a trade target. That’s what people should be mad about, and that is what someone needs to take responsibility for. Who we coulda, shoulda, woulda drafted three years ago is simply speculation and hindsight.

  15. HenryDrix says:

    Fate is strange. I thank Scrivens for netting us McDavid. Without that terrible year of his, we would likely never have won the draft lottery. Who knows what the gems the perils of this season will net us by either trade or draft. Glass half full!

  16. Westchester Oil says:

    A little tidbit that some Oiler fans might find amusing.

    I went to a NY Rangers Alumni/Charity game in Mamaroneck, NY which is not too far from where I live. Rangers alumni included Adam Graves, Glen Anderson, Colton Orr, Darren Langdon, Ron Duguay and a couple others. I wanted to see ex-Oilers Anderson + Graves, both of which have gained 15+ pounds. The only way I got my wife to come was because Duguay was there. I had to put up with her drooling and constant texting with her friend back in Edmonton discussing how good looking he is (at close to age 60). 🙂

  17. Wilde says:

    AsiaOil,

    This has been said many times before, but fans wanting to select Barzal at the spot we were at is not them changing their minds 3 years later, or hindsight, it was what people wanted at the time.

    I’m not saying pointing it out over and over is productive, but it’s definitely a defensible opinion to argue it was the wrong move at the time, as well as today, regardless of outcome. It was extremely poor in both process AND result.

  18. jtblack says:

    Thinker: What is your deal with Hebig? He is an overager, and it’s not like he is as good as Mitch Holmberg. You are way too high on our prospects. Everybody has guys lighting up junior. Benson and Moto may turn into top 6 players, the rest are a long shot to play top 6. We need wingers because we have 2 top six guys for next year. One will struggle to get to 20G and 50pts this year, and is trending down. The other is a raw youth scoring at a 22G 31pt pace. This team is lottery bound again next year unless somebody is brought in, and because we have no legitimate prospects, it will cost a roster player. Since we have 0 wingers, it has to be a C or a D. We don’t need 3LD as good as the ones we have. Sekera at the very least should be available.

    As it stands, we are short two top line wingers. JP might address one of those slots. Betting on Benson or Yamamoto to be a top line winger is pretty wishful thinking, as it is fairly rare prospects turn out that well, and even if they do, you are looking at probably 2-3 years before they get there. At that point, you are looking at core pieces of the team becoming UFA such as Nuge and Larsson. Talbot is likely gone by that point as well.

    If you want to start another rebuild, we can do that, but we are several years away, most want to speed up the process, since the core of the team was built to compete in the window of the next five years. This years draft is mostly dmen, which take awhile to develop (usually). There is no immediate help coming, and contrary to popular belief, first line wingers don’t grow on trees. This is a team and organization that is ridiculously unbalanced. Which is hard to believe because a couple years ago they were completely unbalanced in the other direction. At least now they have 2 strengths (C and LD) as opposed to one (elite wing talent). Progress, right?

    +1

  19. OriginalPouzar says:

    Admiral Ackbar: Strong attempt at deflecting. Thinker has a fair point. The cupboards are pretty empty and the simple fact that there’s a discussion around Hebig suggests how bleak the outlook may be. While Thinker is quite critical of you here, I don’t think that branding him as a complainer is constructive to our dialogue.

    I’m not saying that our prospect pool is great – in fact, in the off-season I posted at length about how we reconcile the need to ensure we have a steady stream of prospects replacing our more veteran players with being buyers at the deadline and using our futures as currency.

    At the same time, I enjoy following our current prospects, many of the junior and college prospects have arrows up and I’m allowed to post positive notes about them.

    Of course, others can choose to provide negative rebuttals on the prospects – not really much of a change from all the other story lines that are being talked about.

    There was no discussion about Hebig – I mentioned him as a small skilled forward in the system in the context of a conversation about small skilled forward. I have been express that he’s unlikely to play in the NHL.

    I have been nothing but realistic about our prospects. I like Maksimov and Safin but have always said they are years away, if ever.

    I have never labelled any of these guys a can’t miss prospect but i do like the arrows on many and will continue to follow their progress and post about it.

    FYI – Hebig with an assist tonight so far.

  20. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: Say Marner costs Klefbom. Do you not do that?

    Not a chance.

    Hasn’t the fanbase been lambasting management for “selling low”? This would be doing it again.

    Klef has had a tough year, that’s for sure – he’s been injured since the start of the season and has played quite a bit better since his rest.

    I believe the 16/17 Klef is closer to the real Klef than the 17/18 Klef.

    That contract is marvelous and I take the top 4 D over the small skilled non-elite winger every day.

  21. ArmchairGM says:

    Oilin4: The referendum on the Draisaitl contract kicks in to high gear.

    I think the next 6 weeks are more about whether Strome can pick up his game and provide value at 3C. He’s on the hot seat – let’s see if he can earn another contract. Some may say the remaining games are meaningless, of course…

  22. Lloyd B. says:

    OriginalPouzar:

    in fact, in the off-season I posted at length

    I would posit that your posting at length is not materially limited to the off-season. 🙂

  23. OriginalPouzar says:

    Thinker: I don’t think Strome is a bust, but he is what he is. I doubt he is the answer at 3C, and trying him there means you have to pay him 3mil or he becomes UFA. It’s probably safer to get some value out of him. If you can find a 3C, you could go XXX McDavid Draisaitl. You are still short a 1LW.I have a hard time seeing Benson and Moto being ready for that, especially benson. A lot would have to go right, to have things sort themselves out on their own. Something like Drai McDavid JP, Lucic Nuge Moto. I think that’s a bit of a stretch, since JP isn’t at a first line level yet (might get there), and I’m not sure Moto is prime time ready next year either. I could see him being in the 2-3rd line calibre, but I’m not sure putting him in that position would be a good idea at this point. Particularly if we aren’t running our unicorn formation, and he turns out to be a 3rd line calibre player. Then you need to find an entire 3rd line from somewhere that is actually capable of doing something. Maybe Khaira is one, but he might be 4C.

    I’ve got large doubts about Strome’s ability to be the 3C as well but I don’t see any reason not to give him that opportunity for a good chunk of the rest of the season. He’s had good games there this season and he’s got the ability to play well, I’ve seen it. I’m not sure he has the ability to be consistent but I’m willing to see what he’s got for the rest of the year. The 3C audition is now forced due to the Nuge injury and I’ll be paying close attention to see how he’s doing. Its a tough audition given the wingers will indeed be middling.

    Also, I think that we could sign Strome for less than the $3M he would need to be qualified at. Its not unusual for RFAs in this category to either (a) negotiate a deal prior to the QO deadline that is lower than the QO amount or (b) not be tendered and then sign for less with the incumbent team.

    Yes, I agree, there is a gap in the top 6 wingers for next year as I too think that both Yamamoto and Benson are likely best served in the AHL next year. Mitch Marners name came up and I simply made a quip about acquiring the type of player that we had plenty of a few years ago.

    We need to acquire a winger (if not two) for the top 6 next year but I don’t think we are in a position to acquire that type of “higher end” winger – the acquisition cost would crater our depth in another area and the contract to be signed would not fit our cap structure.

    I’d like to see stop-gap acquisitions – similar to Van and Vanek last year.

    I am higher on our forward prospects that you, clearly. No, I don’t think they are special as a group vis-a-vis the rest of the league but there are good arrows and we just need one or two to hit in the next few years.

  24. OriginalPouzar says:

    Thinker: I don’t mean to come off as critical. I like OP, but I just try to be realistic about what is coming. Obviously I want Hebig to be good, but I would prefer some more reasonable bets.

    I’ve got no expectation that Hebig will ever have a real NHL career.

    At the same time, I think he’ll be a nice addition to the Condors next year and I’m going to continue to keep track of his progress in the WHL this year.

    I’ve never expressed huge excitement about this player.

  25. OriginalPouzar says:

    ArmchairGM: I think the next 6 weeks are more about whether Strome can pick up his game and provide value at 3C. He’s on the hot seat – let’s see if he can earn another contract. Some may say the remaining games are meaningless, of course…

    Agreed.

  26. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’ve got no expectation that Hebig will ever have a real NHL career.

    At the same time, I think he’ll be a nice addition to the Condors next year and I’m going to continue to keep track of his progress in the WHL this year.

    I’ve never expressed huge excitement about this player.

    I’ll make my argument for Klefbom for Marner in a minute here, but I’d like to note that mentioning Hebig directly in response to comments about the lack of scoring wingers on the NHL roster implies that you thought he was a solution there in some way. That’s what elicited the discussion.

  27. OmJo says:

    AsiaOil: Touche and great point. Rather ironic that the folks who think Snow was so brilliant by drafting Barzal forget he was also the guy who drafted Reinhart #4. I guess Yzerman is also a moron for drafting Mitchell Stephens in our 2nd round slot instead of Carlo or Aho.

    Who thinks Snow is a genius?

    That’s what makes the trades worse… Chiarelli got hustled by Garth fucking Snow. Twice.

  28. Side says:

    AsiaOil: Touche and great point. Rather ironic that the folks who think Snow was so brilliant by drafting Barzal forget he was also the guy who drafted Reinhart #4. I guess Yzerman is also a moron for drafting Mitchell Stephens in our 2nd round slot instead of Carlo or Aho.

    Complaining about Barzal is a totally pointless exercise. You can complain about every pick that is not optimal made by every team, every year.It’s like complaining about people not buying bitcoin in 2012 with today’s information. Yes some people did buy it, and you can mock people who didn’t by saying how obvious it was, but it’s a ridiculous exercise. Of course you need to look back, assess your success, and try to improve your drafting, but that’s a different issue entirely based on reality. Not some alternate universe where different decisions were made.

    The failure and the mistake was picking Reinhart as a trade target. That’s what people should be mad about, and that is what someone needs to take responsibility for. Who we coulda, shoulda, woulda drafted three years ago is simply speculation and hindsight.

    Exactly. One could look at every team in the league and tear apart their draft selections with the benefit of hindsight. The players that were “can’t miss prospects!” that turned out to be busts. The players that looked like they were going nowhere that turned into goldmines when some team took a chance on them.

  29. Side says:

    OmJo: Who thinks Snow is a genius?

    That’s what makes the trades worse… Chiarelli got hustled by Garth fucking Snow. Twice.

    There are people saying things to the effect of “wish we had the Islanders scouting team. They drafted Barzal, they know what they’re doing.” when the Islanders were also the ones who scouted and drafted Reinhart (a complete bust, with a #4 pick)

    Chiarelli trading the assets he did for Reinhart is indefensible. But I don’t understand why people act like the Islanders are scouting savants when they have their big hits and colossal misses (like every team does).

  30. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: Not a chance.

    Hasn’t the fanbase been lambasting management for “selling low”? This would be doing it again.

    Klef has had a tough year, that’s for sure – he’s been injured since the start of the season and has played quite a bit better since his rest.

    I believe the 16/17 Klef is closer to the real Klef than the 17/18 Klef.

    That contract is marvelous and I take the top 4 D over the small skilled non-elite winger every day.

    Alright so there’s a few things to go through here.

    First I’ll tackle the implication that Klefbom is much more valuable than Marner, in you saying it would be selling low.

    But before I evaluate Marner, I’d like to say that I love OK as a player, he’s my third favourite on the roster after 97 and 98.

    Anyways. Marner, like Nylander, checks all of my boxes for player evaluation:

    -positive rel player (Toronto has strange deployment, Kadri+Komarov get extremely tough deployment and so everyone away from them is positive, I can go deeper on this if you’d like, basically it’s a zone start and competition thing)

    But Marner is special in this way that he drives scoring chances with the vast majority of the Leafs towards 60% and they drop without him. For both of his seasons.

    -Is he a 2/60 player? Last season, he was 2.2/60 with a iS% of 12.1%, and and oiS% of 10.1%. Both of those are high, particularly the on ice shooting percentage, because high skill players can actually sustain a higher than average individual shooting percentage for their whole career, but teammate’s shooting percentage can only be driven marginally, unless you’re 97.

    This season, he’s 1.85/60 with an iS% of 4.7, and oiS% of 7.35. As you can probably guess, his loss of points per 60 is goal-based. He went from .87 goals per 60, to .31 goals per 60.

    But here’s where it gets interesting: his assists per 60 have gone UP from 1.33 to 1.55 year over year, while his teammate’s shooting percentage has gone DOWN. He’s creating more scoring plays with less bounces going his way. That’s an extremely positive arrow. Were he to have a first line average oi%, he would be creating scoring plays at an elite rate. If you combined that with his individual shooting percentage moving somewhere between his good year last year and abysmal year this year, we’re looking at elite production.

    Elite production along with strong underlying numbers, while being the zoomer and not the zoomee. I’d like that on my team, please.

    So. No chance? I think it would be reasonable to think about it.

  31. JimmyV1965 says:

    Connoreah:
    Sort of off-topic, but read yesterday that at least one NHL executive is expecting Tavares to get $15 million/7 years if he goes to market.

    Curious if/how this would change the perception around here regarding the Oilers cap situation. If Tavares gets $15 million from age 27-34, then Draisaitl getting $8.5 from age 22-28 would look much better. The whole bridge deal approach would have been a disaster, potentially.And Connor’s contract would look like the deal of the century, no?

    I know very little, but I do know the Drai and McDavid deals will look great in a couple

    Truth: I completely disagree. If the Oilers had the Islanders scouting staff (or whomever it was responsible for the trade and subsequent pick of Barzal) they would have Barzal, not the Islanders.It is 100% a failure of the Oilers to not only trade for a bust in Reinhart, but the exact pick Barzal was selected without any picks prior to that selection yet to be made.Barzal could have been an Oiler 100%.After the Bruins last selection (and prior to the trade) I was happy as a pig in s*** believing Barzal actually fell to the Oilers.

    To say “the Oilers weren’t going to take him anyway” is just further evidence that they are incompetent.Yes, the Bruins (and others missed on him), and yes they have egg on their face too, but not nearly trading out of that draft position for an AHL level player.

    I think it’s fair to complain about your team making a bad, boneheaded pick. I think it’s fair to complain that a team didn’t pick the guy you thought was the best choice. But the complaints about Barzal have become unreasonable and histrionic. The guy was picked 16th overall. Clearly he wasn’t a consensus choice. Intelligent GMs make miss on good picks all the time. There are many valid reasons to criticize Chia. This ain’t one of them.

  32. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bakersfield with a 4-3 OT win.

    Bear with the OT winner.

    They were down 2-0 and 3-2 – Christoffer tied it up with about 5 min left in regulation (Mantha with the apple).

    Condors are hot.

  33. HT Joe says:

    Side: Exactly. One could look at every team in the league and tear apart their draft selections with the benefit of hindsight.

    “We wouldn’t have made the deal if (Barzal) wasn’t there,” Snow told reporters.

  34. OmJo says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    We might not agree on too much wrt where the team is heading but I have to say your reluctance (for lack of a better word, I’m tired) to look negatively towards this team with how the season has gone is admirable.

    Seriously, I’m not even trying to be patronizing or anything like that. I look at this roster and get a feeling somewhere between angry and sad. I think of what could have been, and what is… I think I said after the Hall trade that this team could have been the Penguins but instead we’re going to be the Sharks. That was supposed to be a bad thing… Now I don’t even know if we’ll be the Sharks. We’re looking more like the pre-Pat Quinn Oilers. Middle of the pack team that fights for a playoff spot until the last few weeks of the season, falling just short by 4-6pts every season.

    But.. So long as McDavid is an Oiler, anything is possible. Get that man into the playoffs, fasten your seatbelts, glue your eyelids open, and enjoy the show.

  35. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: I’ll make my argument for Klefbom for Marner in a minute here, but I’d like to note that mentioning Hebig directly in response to comments about the lack of scoring wingers on the NHL roster implies that you thought he was a solution there in some way. That’s what elicited the discussion.

    My mention of Hebig was an aside regarding small skilled wingers and I was pretty clear that he will be destined to the AHL next fall.

  36. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: Alright so there’s a few things to go through here.

    First I’ll tackle the implication that Klefbom is much more valuable than Marner, in you saying it would be selling low.

    But before I evaluate Marner, I’d like to say that I love OK as a player, he’s my third favourite on the roster after 97 and 98.

    Anyways. Marner, like Nylander, checks all of my boxes for player evaluation:

    -positive rel player (Toronto has strange deployment, Kadri+Komarov get extremely tough deployment and so everyone away from them is positive, I can go deeper on this if you’d like, basically it’s a zone start and competition thing)

    But Marner is special in this way that he drives scoring chances with the vast majority of the Leafs towards 60% and they drop without him. For both of his seasons.

    -Is he a 2/60 player? Last season, he was 2.2/60 with a iS% of 12.1%, and and oiS% of 10.1%. Both of those are high, particularly the on ice shooting percentage, because high skill players can actually sustain a higher than average individual shooting percentage for their whole career, but teammate’s shooting percentage can only be driven marginally, unless you’re 97.

    This season, he’s 1.85/60 with an iS% of 4.7, and oiS% of 7.35. As you can probably guess, his loss of points per 60 is goal-based. He went from .87 goals per 60, to .31 goals per 60.

    But here’s where it gets interesting: his assists per 60 have gone UP from 1.33 to 1.55 year over year, while his teammate’s shooting percentage has gone DOWN. He’s creating more scoring plays with less bounces going his way. That’s an extremely positive arrow. Were he to have a first line average oi%, he would be creating scoring plays at an elite rate. If you combined that with his individual shooting percentage moving somewhere between his good year last year and abysmal year this year, we’re looking at elite production.

    Elite production along with strong underlying numbers, while being the zoomer and not the zoomee. I’d like that on my team, please.

    So. No chance? I think it would be reasonable to think about it.

    I”m not saying that Marner is not a very good hockey player, he clearly is.

    As I’ve iterated, my position is that this team’s salary/cap structure is set up to not allow any additional high-priced wingers and, while Marner will probably sign a bridge in the $5M range, long term he’s going to be VERY expensive.

    If he is does not warrant a long term/big money contract then he has not performed at a level that is worth Oscar Klefbom in a trade.

    Ever since the off-season became very expensive, I’ve been set in my position that we require young cheap wingers on their ELCs or 2nd contracts to produce in the top 6. Unfortunately, we don’t have that player (or those players) graduating for next year – we have a hole and I’m hopeful for a shot-term stop gap (i.e Vanek or similar).

    We have cost certainty with Klefbom and, with Lucic on the cap, we are maxed out for high-priced wingers. I am not willing to move Nuge and deplete center depth to open up cap space for a winger.

    I’d rather keep the defence depth, even with the “leftorium” than acquire a high-priced winger.

    Klefbom and Nurse are our top 2 LD of the future – we get rid of Klefbom and we’re counting on Nurse to continue to take steps forward as his minutes will become that much tougher as he’s backed up by an aging Sekera and limited Kris Russell.

  37. HT Joe says:

    For everyone claiming that we can’t claim that the Oilers traded Barzal+ for Reinhart, I invite you to re-read the comments the day it happened:

    https://lowetide.ca/2015/06/26/oilers-trade-no-16-for-griffin-reinhart/

    Quotes of interest:

    “This is fucking awful. I’m shaking right now I’m so angry.”

    “Barzal is the new Parise for Oilers fans”

    “From such high hopes, picking McDavid was a no brainer, this is the real first insight as to what Chia’s master plan might look like and it sucks. We are going to be talking about this like Parise. This fucking REEKS of the Tambo/Klowe/MacT shitstorm…trading for an over rated ex-Oilking when we potentially could have had Barzal and Kylington with those picks. I’m vibrating I’m so disappointed.”

    “Funky trade. If Barzal/Svechnikov were off the board, wouldn’t have such a sour fast in my mouth. Passed on serious talent”

    “If it wasn’t Barzal on the board I wouldn’t be near as pissed.”

    If the only argument is that the Oilers wouldn’t have picked Barzal anyways, why are so many posters on this site bang on?

  38. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: My mention of Hebig was an aside regarding small skilled wingers and I was pretty clear that he will be destined to the AHL next fall.

    Regardless of how you meant it, mentioning Hebig directly in response to the lack of small skilled wingers *on the NHL roster* reads like a statement about his chances on the NHL roster.

    The reason you had to clarify is because that’s how it was written, not because everyone else misinterpreted you, in unison, in the exact same way. That’s just how it read.

    Your clarification came after, not before or during.

  39. HT Joe says:

    More on-point comments here:

    https://lowetide.ca/2015/06/26/2015-draft-day-two/comment-page-1/#comments

    “Redline had [Barzal] 9th. I was doing the happy dance when both he and Svenchikov were there at 16. Then I was sad.”

  40. Lloyd B. says:

    Wilde: Regardless of how you meant it, mentioning Hebig directly in response to the lack of small skilled wingers *on the NHL roster* reads like a statement about his chances on the NHL roster.

    The reason you had to clarify is because that’s how it was written, not because everyone else misinterpreted you, in unison, in the exact same way. That’s just how it read.

    Your clarification came after, not before or during.

    I would posit you are correct with these comments.

  41. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: I”m not saying that Marner is not a very good hockey player, he clearly is.

    As I’ve iterated, my position is that this team’s salary/cap structure is set up to not allow any additional high-priced wingers and, while Marner will probably sign a bridge in the $5M range, long term he’s going to be VERY expensive.

    If he is does not warrant a long term/big money contract then he has not performed at a level that is worth Oscar Klefbom in a trade.

    Ever since the off-season became very expensive, I’ve been set in my position that we require young cheap wingers on their ELCs or 2nd contracts to produce in the top 6.Unfortunately, we don’t have that player (or those players) graduating for next year – we have a hole and I’m hopeful for a shot-term stop gap (i.e Vanek or similar).

    We have cost certainty with Klefbom and, with Lucic on the cap, we are maxed out for high-priced wingers.I am not willing to move Nuge and deplete center depth to open up cap space for a winger.

    I’d rather keep the defence depth, even with the “leftorium” than acquire a high-priced winger.

    Klefbom and Nurse are our top 2 LD of the future – we get rid of Klefbom and we’re counting on Nurse to continue to take steps forward as his minutes will become that much tougher as he’s backed up by an aging Sekera and limited Kris Russell.

    If it’s about cap constraints instead of player value now, I can tango with that too:

    In this trade we’re moving out 4.187, and taking in 1.744.

    The secondary consequence here is having Marner allows us to part with an existing winger, let’s say Ryan Strome. That is a total cap savings of 4.943.

    That more than breaks even with a raise: a bridge deal that I would sign him to. 4.67M got kucherov a year ago, I’ll go with 5.

    This lines up for when Russell’s trade clause kicks in, taking off 4M in time to give him another raise.

    Alternative universe:

    Khaira – McDavid – Yamamoto
    Marner – Nuge – Puljujarvi
    Lucic – Drai – Ho-Sang
    Eight – Minute – Line

    Nurse – Larsson
    Sekera – (???)
    Davidson – Benning

    Edit: took out Demers because of his contract

  42. Thinker says:

    HT Joe,
    “If Reinhart makes the team and Marincin is traded I’m going to be out of my mind. One of the two is an NHL defenseman right now and it isn’t Reinhart.”

    Poor innocent Rational Zealot…

  43. Thinker says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    As I’ve iterated, my position is that this team’s salary/cap structure is set up to not allow any additional high-priced wingers and, while Marner will probably sign a bridge in the $5M range, long term he’s going to be VERY expensive.

    And there is the money problem, because we have nobody (outside of Lucic) who legitimately belong in the top 6 wings going into next year. You can maybe count JP, but it’s a bit of a reach.

  44. HT Joe says:

    Thinker:
    HT Joe,
    “If Reinhart makes the team and Marincin is traded I’m going to be out of my mind. One of the two is an NHL defenseman right now and it isn’t Reinhart.”

    Poor innocent Rational Zealot…

    Reinhart: 39GP in the NHL (not including pre-season games)
    Marincin: 183GP in the NHL

    Now, let’s look at that using only the games after the Reinhart trade:

    Reinhart: 30GP
    Marincin: 98GP since the trade

  45. frjohnk says:

    HT Joe: Reinhart:39GP in the NHL (not including pre-season games)
    Marincin:183GP in the NHL

    Now, let’s look at that using only the games after the Reinhart trade:

    Reinhart:30GP
    Marincin:98GP since the trade

    You know the Oilers situation is dire when the Marincin card is played and trumps the opposing card.

  46. HT Joe says:

    frjohnk: You know the Oilers situation is dire when the Marincin card is played and trumps the opposing card.

    I know…. Reinhart wishes he played 2 games in the NHL this year. *SNAP*
    (I hope that kid still makes a career of it… my snarkiness IS directed towards Chia for the trade; the trade is absolutely no fault of Reinhart’s)

  47. Pouzar says:

    https://www.theathletic.com/216068/2018/01/19/jordan-oesterle-learned-to-be-a-pro-long-before-joining-the-blackhawks/

    “The pass he made to [Patrick] Kane on the breakaway off the bench in the one, not a lot of players can make that play.”

    “Over the last 15 games, Oesterle has led the Blackhawks in 5-on-5 ice time. He’s had a 55.02 Corsi percentage and a plus-5 goal differential (17-12). Individually, he’s produced three goals and six assists. He’s also been placed on the top power play unit.”

    sigh

    /axegrind

  48. Pouzar says:

    EDM Prospect Watch

    @EDProspectWatch
    2m2 minutes ago
    More EDM Prospect Watch Retweeted The WHL
    31 saves for Stuart Skinner tonight.

    4-0 since joining the Broncos. 1.48 GAA, .946 SV% over those four games.

  49. flyfish1168 says:

    Pouzar:
    https://www.theathletic.com/216068/2018/01/19/jordan-oesterle-learned-to-be-a-pro-long-before-joining-the-blackhawks/

    “The pass he made to [Patrick] Kane on the breakaway off the bench in the one, not a lot of players can make that play.”

    “Over the last 15 games, Oesterle has led the Blackhawks in 5-on-5 ice time. He’s had a 55.02 Corsi percentage and a plus-5 goal differential (17-12). Individually, he’s produced three goals and six assists. He’s also been placed on the top power play unit.”

    sigh

    /axegrind

    He just not PC type of player

  50. Gret99zky says:

    Pescador: Seattle Sockeyes would be one of the all time greatest franchise names in the NHL

    *hold my beer*

    The Seattle Cattle™

  51. Thinker says:

    Gret99zky: *hold my beer*

    The Seattle Cattle™

    Love it. I vote LT buy a ranch in Seattle with all his Athletic money.

  52. godot10 says:

    Wilde: Say Marner costs Klefbom. Do you not do that?

    Hall and Klefbom for Marner and Larsson.

    Hall >> Marner. Klefbom > Larsson.

    Klefbom is a stud defensemen, at worst a #3D if developed and coached properly, and asset so devalued already by McLellan’s coaching that people want to trade him for a Yamamoto clone.

  53. Pouzar says:

    godot10: Klefbom > Larsson.

    Yeah No.

  54. JimmyV1965 says:

    godot10: Hall and Klefbom for Marner and Larsson.

    Hall >> Marner.Klefbom > Larsson.

    Klefbom is a stud defensemen, at worst a #3D if developed and coached properly, and asset so devalued already by McLellan’s coaching that people want to trade him for a Yamamoto clone.

    I’m a bit confused. If Tmac has devalued Klef as an asset, how do we account for his good play last year? Are you saying he would have been even better last year if it wasn’t for Tmac? I’m asking this as someone who’s on the fence with Tmac as a coach.

  55. Wilde says:

    godot10: Hall and Klefbom for Marner and Larsson.

    Hall >> Marner.Klefbom > Larsson.

    Klefbom is a stud defensemen, at worst a #3D if developed and coached properly, and asset so devalued already by McLellan’s coaching that people want to trade him for a Yamamoto clone.

    I’d go Hall, then Marner, then Klefbom, then there’s a gap between Klef and Larsson.

    The Hall trade has nothing to do with this trade, though.

    I have a post detailing Marner’s value, and the workings of that trade, if you want to reply to that instead.

    Also yes if Marner and Yamamoto are equal, I would take two 60pt wingers on ELC’s on my team.

  56. Pouzar says:

    Wilde: I have a post detailing Marner’s value, and the workings of that trade, if you want to reply to that instead.

    I like it. If Marner is a “driver” of offense then it’s trade worth looking into further.
    Not sure where I stand on it yet. Love Klefbom and that contract.

    Where I part company with some is that Klefbom is the better d-man than Larsson.
    Not a huge gap either way imo. The tiebreaker for me is Larsson is the only bonafide
    right shot d-man we have.

  57. godot10 says:

    Wilde: I’d go Hall, then Marner, then Klefbom, then there’s a gap between Klef and Larsson.

    The Hall trade has nothing to do with this trade, though.

    I have a post detailing Marner’s value, and the workings of that trade, if you want to reply to that instead.

    The Oilers traded a much better forward than Marner (Hall) for a slightly worse defensemen than Klefbom (Larsson).

    And now people want to trade a slightly better defensemen than Larsson (Klefbom) for a significantly worse forward than Hall (Marner).

    The Oilers would compound the bad trade of Hall with a bad trade of Klefbom, getting significantly less value back in both trades.

    Plus the Oilers cannot run both Marner and Yamamoto on the right side.

  58. Pouzar says:

    godot10: Plus the Oilers cannot run both Marner and Yamamoto on the right side.

    No worries…Yammsy is the sweetener.

  59. JD_Wry says:

    Gret99zky: *hold my beer*

    The Seattle Cattle™

    The Seattle Seamen.

  60. Wilde says:

    godot10: The Oilers traded a much better forward than Marner (Hall) for a slightly worse defensemen than Klefbom (Larsson).

    And now people want to trade a slightly better defensemen than Larsson (Klefbom) for a significantly worse forward than Hall (Marner).

    The Oilers would compound the bad trade of Hall with a bad trade of Klefbom, getting significantly less value back in both trades.

    Plus the Oilers cannot runboth Marner and Yamamoto on the right side.

    Yeah, you’re missing stuff here. That logic only carries if you think Marner is less valuable than Klefbom, and I already stated I don’t.

    Hall is a better forward than Lars is a defenseman.
    Marner is a better forward than Klef is a defenseman.

    See, the Oilers get a better player in one of these deals, by my evaluation. You should be disagreeing with my evaluation, not just repeating the same argument.

    A hockey team can can play two small players on two separate lines. The Bolts have Johnson and Point.

  61. Wilde says:

    Pouzar: I like it. If Marner is a “driver” of offense then it’s trade worth looking into further.
    Not sure where I stand on it yet. Love Klefbom and that contract.

    Where I part company with some is that Klefbom is the better d-man than Larsson.
    Not a huge gap either way imo. The tiebreaker for me is Larsson is the only bonafide
    right shot d-man we have.

    I think Oscar’s play with the puck is so much better in the 3 main areas you want in defenseman: carry outs, breakout/headman passes, and shot/playmaking on the point, that it easily overtakes Larsson’s play away from the puck.

  62. Pouzar says:

    Wilde: I think Oscar’s play with the puck is so much better in the 3 main areas you want in defenseman: carry outs, breakout/headman passes, and shot/playmaking on the point, that it easily overtakes Larsson’s play away from the puck.

    I hear ya.

  63. Gret99zky says:

    Thinker: Love it. I vote LT buy a ranch in Seattle with all his Athletic money.

    Tonight’s matchup:

    The Seattle Cattle™
    vs.
    The Houston All Hats™

  64. Gret99zky says:

    JD_Wry: The Seattle Seamen.

    spunky

  65. OriginalPouzar says:

    Benson with a couple of assists last night – good to see him back on the scoresheet.

    Benson also scored in the shootout.

    Stuart Skinner continues to play well – 34 saves in a 5-3 win.

  66. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lloyd B.: I would posit you are correct with these comments.

    If you know my “posting style” well enough to take gentle personal shots at me with respect to it then you would know very well that I’ve always said that its unlikely that the player will ever play in the NHL.

    I would posit that you are just looking for a way to pile on and continue a particular narrative.

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: If it’s about cap constraints instead of player value now, I can tango with that too:

    In this trade we’re moving out 4.187, and taking in 1.744.

    For one season and, if Marner doesn’t cost $7M plus on his next contract then he’s performed at a level that didn’t not warrant an acquisition cost of Oscar Kelfbom.

    Short sited cap management there.

  68. AsiaOil says:

    So PIT has won a few cups, must be draft geniuses right? Had two of the best GMs in Shero and Rutherford over the past 7 years. Let’s investigate with my new found 20/20 hindsight draft tool.

    2017 – traded Klim Kostin for Ryan Reeves
    2016 – traded Debrincat and stuff for Kessel
    2015 – traded Barzal for barely a season of David Perron
    2014 – picked Kasperi Kapanen right in front of Pasternak
    2013 – traded magic beans for 10 minutes of Jerome Iginla
    2012 – picked Derek Pouliot right in front of Trouba
    2011 – picked Joe Morrow instead of Saad or Jenner
    2010 – picked Beau Bennett instead of Kuznetsov

    Shero and Rutherford are clearly incompetent and should never work in the NHL :s

    …. or maybe this drafting and team building stuff is a bit harder than bloggers think it is.

  69. JD_Wry says:

    AsiaOil: must be draft geniuses right?

    Nah, they just tanked for talent… Uh, wait…

  70. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: For one season and, if Marner doesn’t cost $7M plus on his next contract then he’s performed at a level that didn’t not warrant an acquisition cost of Oscar Kelfbom.

    Short sited cap management there.

    It certainly would be shortsighted if my post ended when your quotes did.

    Strome’s money goes to Marner’s bridge, then Russell moves out for the salary of Marner’s third deal.

  71. deardylan says:

    Check out THIS storytellers prowess at @ 1:01.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYmIBgFtjuU

    With Oilers not playing (& Barzal/Eberle team also out of playoffs so not interested in that discussion) instead I am watching previews & getting ready for the UFC heavyweight fight. (Sunday morning here in Vietnam).

    Ngannou

    Imagine could a homeless immigrant guy who walks into a ice rink, donated skates and free training and then 5 years later leads his team in the NHL like a Messier Type? I know hockey is a team game—although wonder if this could happen in hockey? If you know of a story like this let me know.

    Wonder how Joe Rogan would cover the 2018 NHL Draft Lottery and covering the Oilers past, present, and 2018 winning picks?

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: It certainly would be shortsighted if my post ended when your quotes did.

    Strome’s money goes to Marner’s bridge, then Russell moves out for the salary of Marner’s third deal.

    Don’t forget about the contracts and cap hit for the roster replacements of Russell and Klefbom plus the salary/cap hit retention on Russell as we are not trading that contract without it.

    I shudder to think of what our defence group will look like without Klefbom and Russell.

    I recall year after year of having many smaller skilled forwards, like Marner, who were not able to provide much offence because they were running around their own zone shift after shift due to a horrible defensive unit (and overall team defence) – you scenario is taking us back to those days.

    Klefbom is not untradeable, however, if traded I think it needs to be in a package to at 1RD to push Larsson to 2RD.

  73. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar: Don’t forget about the contracts and cap hit for the roster replacements of Russell and Klefbom plus the salary/cap hit retention on Russell as we are not trading that contract without it.

    I shudder to think of what our defence group will look like without Klefbom and Russell.

    I recall year after year of having many smaller skilled forwards, like Marner, who were not able to provide much offence because they were running around their own zone shift after shift due to a horrible defensive unit (and overall team defence) – you scenario is taking us back to those days.

    Klefbom is not untradeable, however, if traded I think it needs to be in a package to at 1RD to push Larsson to 2RD.

    I included a roster projection of the aftermath in my posts, functional well below the cap, I didn’t exactly forget.

    As for the past teams, well… having the skill forwards wasn’t the problem, it was everyone else. This season’s Oilers, incredibly, has room for at least one more.

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