Sweetener

My mother-in-law is Helen. She and her husband couldn’t have children of their own, so they adopted nine kids just to keep themselves busy. It’s an amazing story, I’ll tell you about it one day (including the day Helen stood and delivered to keep four girls together in a life and death meeting in Regina. One of those girls is my wife, Helen took on the church and the government to make sure those girls stayed together, in her home. After she won that battle, she walked to her car and told her husband about the four new kids coming to their house to live forever). Helen makes the best rhubarb pie on earth. No one knows the exact recipe but a mountain of Rogers sugar is involved and I’m here to tell you every grain is worth it.

The Edmonton Oilers may be looking to trade Milan Lucic this summer, with a sweetener thrown in. How many packages of Rogers sugar are involved? That is the question.

THE ATHLETIC!

Give The Athletic as a gift or get it yourself and join the fun! Offer is here, less than $5 a month! I find myself reading both the hockey (Willis, Dellow, Pronman, et cetera) and the baseball coverage a lot, it’s a pure pleasure to visit. We’ll sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge.

OILERS DRAFT TRENDS 2015-18

  • OHL (26 percent)—Connor McDavid, Markus Niemelainen, Dylan Wells, Dmitri Samorukov, Kirill Maksimov, Evan Bouchard, Ryan McLeod
  • USA (26 percent)—Caleb Jones, John Marino, Graham McPhee, Vincent Desharnais, Skyler Brind’Amour, Phillip Kemp, Michael Kesselring
  • WHL (15 percent)—Ethan Bear, Tyler Benson, Kailer Yamamoto, Stuart Skinner
  • Finland (11 percent)—Jesse Puljujarvu, Aapeli Rasanen, Patrik Siikanen
  • Czech (7 percent)—Miroslav Svoboda, Ostap Safin
  • Russia (4 percent)—Ziyat Paigin
  • OJHL (4 percent)—Matthew Cairns
  • Sweden (4 percent)—Filip Berglund
  • QMJHL (4 percent)—Olivier Rodrigue

I like this alignment better, the Oilers are finally migrating away from the WHL as the main supplier of talent. The OHL has shown itself to be king for exactly one forever, and the USA is the big new market. Edmonton remains nervous about spending high picks with USA leagues but that will come in time. The OHL is providing Edmonton with a handsome future.

SWEETENER

If you are trading Milan Lucic and have to add in a sweetener, there are a few items that have to be off limits. My list of ‘assets out’ that are not open for negotiation would include:

  • RD Evan Bouchard. A big piece of the future.
  • R Kailer Yamamoto. One of the great hopes among skill prospects.
  • 2019 draft round pick.

That means the 2019 second-round selection, Ethan Bear, Kirill Maksimov, Caleb Jones, Cooper Marody, Tyler Benson and Phil Kemp might be the sweetener. For me, the appeal of dealing Lucic for a loss is gone, he’s a sunk cost until next summer. However, the extreme poison pill of the buyout might make a trade now worthwhile. I would not be in favor of a trade that costs an asset if the result is merely signing another elevator shaft contract. Best to stay away from free agent ‘bright lights, big city’ with this management group. I also think it reasonable to expect some recovery from Lucic (although I would not play him on the top two lines, as expressed here).

As a reminder about how poor this past season was, here are the 5-on-5 numbers without McDavid for the forward group (via Natural Stat Trick):

  1. Pontus Aberg 2.26 (159:08)
  2. Leon Draisaitl 2.01 (628:15)
  3. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 1.66 (694:04)
  4. Jujhar Khaira 1.43 (712:51)
  5. Ryan Strome 1.42 (932:14)
  6. Zack Kassian 1.29 (696:30)
  7. Milan Lucic 1.22 (689:36)
  8. Jesse Puljujarvi 0.97 (558:31)
  9. Drake Caggiula 0.95 (629:45)
  10. Kailer Yamamoto 0.00 (53:24)
  11. Ty Rattie 0.00 (34.10)

Draisaitl is going to be relied on in a big way this winter to outscore opponents on a line that does not include McDavid, these numbers are solid (Leon was also 50.42 Corsi for 5×5 without 97 a year ago, just 42.42 percent in goal differential) and a key for 2018-19. If Lucic could win a job on Draisaitl’s line on merit, it would be a major help. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect it to happen and would suggest it wise to assume Tobias Rieder wins the No. 2 left wing job.

I know many wanted to see Maroon back in Edmonton, but his skills duplicate Lucic in many ways. Edmonton needs a different look on the portside, and a depth chart of Nugent-Hopkins, Rieder, Lucic and Jujhar Khaira means Maroon is probably on the outside.

 ODDS AND ENDS

  • There’s an interesting article on Ryan McLeod and his Oilers connections here, via Iain Colpitts of the Mississauga News.
  • Derek Van Diest has an article on Evan Bouchard at NHL.com.

FRANK

A lot of verbal online in the last 24 hours, I wanted to mention a few things about Frank Seravalli. If Frank tells you there’s something there, you can take it to the bank. He has been ahead of the curve on many transactions over recent years and his Oilers intel is excellent. Frank is not a Toronto insider, as far as I know he’s never covered the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I doubt my words will do very much to help, but wanted to put it out there. If you want to frame Seravalli as anti-Oilers and a Toronto insider, you are going to have to overcome the facts. He isn’t reporting things to piss you off, he is reporting them because they are real. There’s a difference.

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191 Responses to "Sweetener"

  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    I do NOT like the idea of a sweetener to get rid of Milan Lucic.

    Maybe a 2nd round pick, maybe, but no prospect that has arrows up and is outperforming draft pedigree.

    The key to this off- season’s success has been management’s ability to not force a cap space type trade.

    Our prospect pool is just starting to gain some traction and depth – it’s not the time to steal from it to rid ourselves of a contract.

    Management needs to show patience and wait for the right deal to dispose of cap.

    We may need to wait two seasons for a compliance buyout (if available) for Milan.

    Deaperate moves will rarely end up good.

  2. Jethro Tull says:

    The thing with Frank…….all journos to my eye do this, some more than others. Just a dash of salt to season a story.

    Chia: We’re not looking to move Milan

    Milan’s Agent: (categorically) We have not been approached by the Oilers with respects to a trade.

    Milan: Training hard to improve for next season.

    The saying “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” doesn’t hold water when it turns out that it’s just Frank burning the hot cakes.

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    I just can’t get on board with using guys like Benson, Marody, Bear, Maksimov to get rid of Lucic.

    Yes, magic beans, however, we are getting to the point where some of these beans will sprout and provide value contracts. All those players have a shot in the next few years. All can be value contracts.

  4. jtblack says:

    Love the Great work LT! I was on holidays this past week. 1st thing I would do each morning is get a Coffee and read your daily blog!

  5. Lowetide says:

    Jethro Tull:
    The thing with Frank…….all journos to my eye do this, some more than others. Just a dash of salt to season a story.

    Chia: We’re not looking to move Milan

    Milan’s Agent: (categorically) We have not been approached by the Oilers with respects to a trade.

    Milan: Training hard to improve for next season.

    The saying “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” doesn’t hold water when it turns out that it’s just Frank burning the hot cakes.

    Well, we’ll see. Sometimes things are said for a reason and that reason could be to deflect. If there’s nothing here, we shouldn’t hear a thing about it moving forward. My read was as yours, but Frank isn’t going to report something just to spike his last appearance of summer on the Lowdown. It’s a ‘goodbye, have a great summer’ hit, but Frank had something he trusted and ran with it. I respect his reporting, he has proven to be trustworthy.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    The gangin on Serevelli by a certain a susbsect of the Oilers community, which I respect, has been very disappointing to me. Serevelli’s response to Staples was unprofessional and unnecessary but it’s time to end the childish game and I’ve expressed that opinion directly to some who are playing allot.

  7. jtblack says:

    2019 is a Deep Draft. I would not move the 2nd rounder.

    I now think you play Milan and hope for a season between his 1st half last year and the 2nd half 15G 20A while playing 2nd / 3rd line and 2nd PP?????

    If the Oilers look good in the 1st 20 games there is less pressure to move him and give up the sweetener

  8. leadfarmer says:

    If Lucic wants out he needs to earn it. None of this halfway engaged effort we saw last year. Trading him would require taking a bad contract back or sending a bigger sweetener than a second or significant retention. In a year he only costs 4 mil a year real money might be able to give him away then

  9. leadfarmer says:

    Also what are you guys talking about?

  10. Kyle Hammermeister says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    I spent most of my Saturday night defending Frank to that same group lol.

  11. Professor Q says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I just can’t get on board with using guys like Benson, Marody, Bear, Maksimov to get rid of Lucic.

    Yes, magic beans, however, we are getting to the point where some of these beans will sprout and provide value contracts.All those players have a shot in the next few years. All can be value contracts.

    My sentiments precisely. Draft well, sign well, keep well.

  12. Professor Q says:

    leadfarmer:
    If Lucic wants out he needs to earn it.None of this halfway engaged effort we saw last year.Trading him would require taking a bad contract back or sending a bigger sweetener than a second or significant retention. In a year he only costs 4 mil a year real money might be able to give him away then

    Would it possibly be similar to Toronto trading Phaneuf?

  13. Kyle Hammermeister says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The gangin on Serevelli by a certain a susbsect of the Oilers community, which I respect, has been very disappointing to me.Serevelli’s response to Staples was unprofessional and unnecessary but it’s time to end the childish game and I’ve expressed that opinion directly to some who are playing allot.

    I spent most of last night defending Frank to that same group. I’m a Staples fan but he did kind of poke the bear by basically stating that Frank is just making up stuff. That’s a BIG accusation against a reporter who has a pretty strong reputation. I can understand why Frank got frustrated and responded the way he did, even if it wasn’t the most professional way of doing it.

  14. Jaxon says:

    Yay, Maroon! To go back to St Louis is really the best news, to me. His kid must be through the moon right now! 🙂

  15. Jethro Tull says:

    Professor Q: My sentimentsprecisely. Draft well, sign well, keep well.

    Never fall in love with your prospects.

  16. Kyle Hammermeister says:

    Jethro Tull:
    The thing with Frank…….all journos to my eye do this, some more than others. Just a dash of salt to season a story.

    Chia: We’re not looking to move Milan

    Milan’s Agent: (categorically) We have not been approached by the Oilers with respects to a trade.

    Milan: Training hard to improve for next season.

    The saying “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” doesn’t hold water when it turns out that it’s just Frank burning the hot cakes.

    When Chia was asked about Milan on video his response was “no comment”. He didn’t really deny anything which would have been the case if there was no truth to it. “No comment” to me shows that there is at the very least a sliver of truth to Frank’s comments.

  17. Professor Q says:

    Jethro Tull: Never fall in love with your prospects.

    That’s a double-edged sword, I feel. Could lead to a Forsberg, Iginla, or Niedereitter situation. Sure the Iginla deal got a Cup sooner, but still.

    Or more Oilers-based: almost too many to list here.

  18. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    The thing with Frank…….all journos to my eye do this, some more than others. Just a dash of salt to season a story.

    Chia: We’re not looking to move Milan

    Milan’s Agent: (categorically) We have not been approached by the Oilers with respects to a trade.

    Milan: Training hard to improve for next season.

    The saying “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” doesn’t hold water when it turns out that it’s just Frank burning the hot cakes.

    What Frank is saying lines up with what some of us have heard around the edges.

    Lucic would prefer to play somewhere else, but isn’t “demanding” a trade and has made this known.

    What Peter and Gerry Johansson have said publicly is par for the course.

    Remember that Peter first said “no comment” when asked if Milan had asked for a trade. He walked that back later.

  19. Jethro Tull says:

    Kyle Hammermeister: I spent most of last night defending Frank to that same group. I’m a Staples fan but he did kind of poke the bear by basically stating that Frank is just making up stuff. That’s a BIG accusation against a reporter who has a pretty strong reputation. I can understand why Frank got frustrated and responded the way he did, even if it wasn’t the most professional way of doing it.

    Well, here’s a thing. Not THE thing, as I have no idea what that is.

    The local beat writers had not a lot on this. Then a national not traditionally connected with the team starts bandying about phrases like “situation is untenable” and “something has to give.”

    I’ve no doubt that Frank heard something. Maybe distant or through unconventional channels. But the catagorical statement from the agent is my tell. Those are forever quotable words.

    And don’t forget the human factor. Never forget that people can be nice people, good people but just as jerky as the next one if they feel slighted.

  20. LMHF#1 says:

    Jethro Tull: Never fall in love with your prospects.

    Whether amateur, pro, or coveted.

    Coaches and GMs and Scouts fixating on “their guy” is the cause of so SO many mistakes.

  21. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Adding a “B” prospect to move Lucic is a no-brainer imo.

    The cap space he uses up could be used for a better player who moves the needle and that’s what EDM needs right now.

    There are 5 (5!!) years left on that contract.

    Even if Lucic rebounds to 50pts that is not worth $6MM and it will get worse as time goes by.

    Admit the mistake, move on and do as little damage as possible extracting yourself from the situation.

  22. Jethro Tull says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Adding a “B” prospect to move Lucic is a no-brainer imo.

    The cap space he uses up could be used for a better player who moves the needle and that’s what EDM needs right now.

    There are 5 (5!!) years left on that contract.

    Even if Lucic rebounds to 50pts that is not worth $6MM and it will get worse as time goes by.

    Admit the mistake, move on and do as little damage as possible extracting yourself from the situation.

    Exactly how I feel. If the cap space gets us a cup or two in the next 4yrs and Maksimov goes supernova and wins 2 in 8yrs, I’d still call it a good deal. One that shouldn’t have been made, but still good.

  23. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I do NOT like the idea of a sweetener to get rid of Milan Lucic.

    Maybe a 2nd round pick, maybe, but no prospect that has arrows up and is outperforming draft pedigree.

    The key to this off- season’s success has been management’s ability to not force a cap space type trade.

    Our prospect pool is just starting to gain some traction and depth – it’s not the time to steal from it to rid ourselves of a contract.

    Management needs to show patience and wait for the right deal to dispose of cap.

    We may need to wait two seasons for a compliance buyout (if available) for Milan.

    Deaperate moves will rarely end up good.

    Not sure a sweetener is required if some salary is retained$1.0-1.5m?

  24. who says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I just can’t get on board with using guys like Benson, Marody, Bear, Maksimov to get rid of Lucic.

    Yes, magic beans, however, we are getting to the point where some of these beans will sprout and provide value contracts.All those players have a shot in the next few years. All can be value contracts.

    I think you have to look at every prospect individually and realistically before you say a blanket NO to including them in a Lucic trade. I think your list of untouchables is too big.
    I agree with the 3 on Lowetides list plus:
    McLeod-excellent skater who can play center. Oilers need speed
    Maksimov-looks like a shooter and a scorer. Edmonton needs more of these.
    I would be willing to include the following:
    Bear-has already been passed on the depth chart by Bouchard. Don’t know if he’ll ever be able to defend at the NHL level.
    Jones-like this prospect but he’s a lefty and his skill set is duplicated by Lagesson and Samarokov. We don’t need all of them.
    Benson-I see skating issues and he has an injury history. Will he ever be more than a bottom 6 forward?
    Marody-same as Benson. Does anyone project him higher than bottom 6.
    I don’t want to include any of these guys but would do it to trade Lucic. 5 years at 6 million is a lot of cap space and has tremendous value to the Oilers.

  25. Thor762 says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Adding a “B” prospect to move Lucic is a no-brainer imo.

    The cap space he uses up could be used for a better player who moves the needle and that’s what EDM needs right now.

    There are 5 (5!!) years left on that contract.

    Even if Lucic rebounds to 50pts that is not worth $6MM and it will get worse as time goes by.

    Admit the mistake, move on and do as little damage as possible extracting yourself from the situation.

    And if Lucic has a third bad year in a row NO ONE is touching that contract with a ten foot pole. The Oilers will be stuck with that contract for its entirety. And that will suck.

    Pour disinfectant on that open wound before it has the chance to get much worse.

  26. Oilman99 says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Adding a “B” prospect to move Lucic is a no-brainer imo.

    The cap space he uses up could be used for a better player who moves the needle and that’s what EDM needs right now.

    There are 5 (5!!) years left on that contract.

    Even if Lucic rebounds to 50pts that is not worth $6MM and it will get worse as time goes by.

    Admit the mistake, move on and do as little damage as possible extracting yourself from the situation.

    There will be no relief from cap hell until this albatross is removed from the equation,git er done!

  27. Pescador says:

    Jaxon:
    Yay, Maroon! To go back to St Louis is really the best news, to me. His kid must be through the moon right now!

    Agreed,
    Patty Maroon seems like a great guy who loves his son & will ultimately take less $ so he can spend more time being a Dad.
    16/17 was the most fun I’ve had as an Oilers fan in a DECADE,
    Maroon was a huge part of that.

  28. Professor Q says:

    Jethro Tull: Exactly how I feel. If the cap space gets us a cup or two in the next 4yrs and Maksimov goes supernova and wins 2 in 8yrs, I’d still call it a good deal. One that shouldn’t have been made, but still good.

    So, does this mean you and Woodguy retract your feelings on the Hall deal?

    If Larsson brings Edmonton two Cups, it’s worth it even if Hall also wins two Cups? Even if (as many sentiments are here) the possibility of more Cups in Edmonton could have been possible? It seems similar in logic, just at different distances along the path.

    I’m not sure what $6 million could even get Edmonton in replacement of Lucic, aside from maybe extra space to sign Puljujärvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard, Maksimov, etc., which IS a good thing to have. This is in reference to if he’ll bounce back to a 50-60 point player. It seems those types of players are getting $6-7 million per deals now, maybe more in the near future.

  29. Kyle Hammermeister says:

    Jethro Tull: Well, here’s a thing. Not THE thing, as I have no idea what that is.

    The local beat writers had not a lot on this. Then a national not traditionally connected with the team starts bandying about phrases like “situation is untenable” and “something has to give.”

    I’ve no doubt that Frank heard something. Maybe distant or through unconventional channels. But the catagorical statement from the agent is my tell. Those are forever quotable words.

    And don’t forget the human factor. Never forget that people can be nice people, good people but just as jerky as the next one if they feel slighted.

    Elliotte Friedman reported that Lucic’s wife was struggling with the heat he was taking in Edmonton and that they would like to play in a U.S, market that they can fly under the radar in. I think between Friedman and Seravelli that there is enough there to take it as having some substance.

    The agent is the last person you take the word of. His sole purpose is to spin the narrative to best serve his client. His job isn’t to report the truth. If his client did want a trade, squashing those rumours is the best thing he can do to maintain Lucic’s trade value and facilitate a deal.

  30. godot10 says:

    jtblack:
    2019 is a Deep Draft. I would not move the 2nd rounder.

    I now think you play Milan and hope for a season between his 1st half last year and the 2nd half 15G 20A while playing 2nd / 3rd line and 2nd PP?????

    If the Oilers look good in the 1st 20 games there is less pressure to move him and give up the sweetener

    Have you looked at the schedule? The schedule maker likes McLellan even less than I do.

  31. Pescador says:

    Jethro Tull: Never fall in love with your prospects.

    I don’t care who knows about it,
    I’ll shout it from the rooftops,
    I’M IN LOVE WITH MAKSIMOV !!

  32. leadfarmer says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Adding a “B” prospect to move Lucic is a no-brainer imo.

    The cap space he uses up could be used for a better player who moves the needle and that’s what EDM needs right now.

    There are 5 (5!!) years left on that contract.

    Even if Lucic rebounds to 50pts that is not worth $6MM and it will get worse as time goes by.

    Admit the mistake, move on and do as little damage as possible extracting yourself from the situation.

    And that’s why a B level sweetener is not enough to move him. I think if that was an option it would have happened already.

  33. jtblack says:

    Lets back up the bus. What were the main reasons Milan signed here?

    1- $$$$ He cashed in on his UFA status.
    2- to play with McDavid. That hasnt worked out. Hes too slow.
    3- to reconnect with his old GM. GM wanted 2010 Lucic and got 2017 Lucic. Big Oooops.

    He never chose Edm for the city itself.

    No reason he shouldn’t want out.

  34. jtblack says:

    godot10: Have you looked at the schedule? The schedule maker likes McLellan even less than I do.

    Yah the 1st 10 games might be a death march for T Mac.

  35. texmex says:

    Kyle Hammermeister,

    Not to mention most agents are ex lawyers…..

  36. Richard S.S. says:

    1) IF Lucic can be traded after last Season the return will not be worth much. How much more must be added to make such a trade work? This could be counter-productive move.
    (a) Will there be Cap space? Extremely unlikely, the return might cost more. At best, not more than $600 K.
    (b) The return might just be as much of a sunk cost – definitely not an asset.

    2) IF Lucic stays and has a sucessful year, this could be a best case scenario. The question becomes, do you trade him?
    (a) Will there be Cap space? Most assuredly, perhaps $3.5 Million or more – maybe even $6.0 Million.
    (b) The return will vary. Absolute minimum is a first round pick and an asset. There will holes to fill.

    3) IF Lucic stays and had less than a sucessful year. A decision becomes, was the Season good enough? A Buyout is a last case resort. It eats up Cap space for eight years. Otherwise see 1).

  37. Lowetide says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Adding a “B” prospect to move Lucic is a no-brainer imo.

    The cap space he uses up could be used for a better player who moves the needle and that’s what EDM needs right now.

    There are 5 (5!!) years left on that contract.

    Even if Lucic rebounds to 50pts that is not worth $6MM and it will get worse as time goes by.

    Admit the mistake, move on and do as little damage as possible extracting yourself from the situation.

    As long as the general manager isn’t allowed to turn around and sign another devastating contract, I agree. Need that in writing though.

  38. dustrock says:

    Guys Ive got the overhead all warmed up for today’s lesson: people lie. Often. In public, and on record for that matter. They’re not sworn under oath here.

    Why, I feel like this might have just happened with Calgary and Dougie Hamilton.

    Trusting in whatever the GM or player or agent says on the record seems pretty naive to me.

  39. Jethro Tull says:

    Kyle Hammermeister: ElliotteFriedman reported that Lucic’s wife was struggling with the heat he was taking in Edmonton and that they would like to play in a U.S, market that they can fly under the radar in. I think between Friedman and Seravelli that there is enough there to take it as having some substance.

    The agent is the last person you take the word of. His sole purpose is to spin the narrative to best serve his client. His job isn’t to report the truth. If his client did want a trade, squashing those rumours is the best thing he can do to maintain Lucic’s trade value and facilitate a deal.

    Okay, your logic is just a little skewed here. If you’re right, then an agent who’s client wants a trade is best off saying “my client wants a trade.” They owe no allegiance to the team, nor care about the return. In your own words “his sole purpose is to spin the narrative to best serve his client.” Telling everyone his client is staying put seems a bit deep game, non? His best bet is to sewer Lucic’s value so more teams will pick him up for cheap. They’ve already got the guaranteed money.

    And I said and acknowledged that there is something. But in the dog days of summer, plus a little hyperbole and here we are.

  40. dustrock says:

    Have to agree with Woodguy. 5 years left at $6m and Lucic isn’t going to have a great final 2-3 years of that contract, we all know it.

    The gamble teams may be willing to take is that he can improve and be productive in the next 2 seasons.

  41. Jethro Tull says:

    Pescador: I don’t care who knows about it,
    I’ll shout it from the rooftops,
    I’M IN LOVE WITH MAKSIMOV !!

    His dreaminess stocks have been quietly rising, for sure….

  42. godot10 says:

    Jethro Tull:
    The thing with Frank…….all journos to my eye do this, some more than others. Just a dash of salt to season a story.

    Chia: We’re not looking to move Milan

    Milan’s Agent: (categorically) We have not been approached by the Oilers with respects to a trade.

    Milan: Training hard to improve for next season.

    The saying “where there’s smoke, there’s fire” doesn’t hold water when it turns out that it’s just Frank burning the hot cakes.

    Chiarelli,, Lucic, and his agent had an adult conversation about the situation leaving everyone with plausible deniability to obfuscate in public what the problem is, who said and asked for what.

    Severalli’s key point is that their are unhappy people behind the faces they are showing the public

  43. Jethro Tull says:

    dustrock:
    Guys Ive got the overhead all warmed up for today’s lesson: people lie. Often. In public, and on record for that matter.They’re not sworn under oath here.

    Why, I feel like this might have just happened with Calgary and Dougie Hamilton.

    Trusting in whatever the GM or player or agent says on the record seems pretty naive to me.

    Nah, i don’t think so. These people deal on reputation. Milan’s agent was telling the truth when he said the Oilers hadn’t approached them about a trade. He said nothing about approaching the Oilers about a trade request…..

  44. Jethro Tull says:

    godot10: Chiarelli,, Lucic, and his agent had an adult conversation about the situation leaving everyone with plausible deniability to obfuscate in public what the problem is, who said and asked for what.

    Severalli’s key point is that their are unhappy people behind the faces they are showing the public

    It couldbe that we have a situation that would have happened if Nylander Snr. signed here. The player likes it fine, but without the backing of the family, if they’re unhappy, it can have an impact.

    Seen it a lot in the oil patch. I have a lot of divorced friends. The leading cause nationally of divorce is.money concerns. In these cases, money was never a.problem. An insane work ethos, coupled to extreme exhaustion with acute neglect certainly didn’t help.

  45. Scungilli Slushy says:

    I’d bet PC is trying to get a player back that is useful, and that is the sticking point. Somebody would take him for a 2nd or 3rd or Marody level prospect. And perhaps Skinner and others have said no to the Oilers, at their own foolish peril, because Connor. At least Strome and Rieder get it.

  46. speeds says:

    leadfarmer: And that’s why a B level sweetener is not enough to move him. I think if that was an option it would have happened already.

    It depends on managements projection for Lucic in the future. It is certainly possible management has higher expectations than many posters, after all, they presumably had higher expectations than the people opposed to the Lucic contract at the time it was signed.

  47. defmn says:

    dustrock:
    Guys Ive got the overhead all warmed up for today’s lesson: people lie. Often. In public, and on record for that matter.They’re not sworn under oath here.

    Why, I feel like this might have just happened with Calgary and Dougie Hamilton.

    Trusting in whatever the GM or player or agent says on the record seems pretty naive to me.

    Not sure why this even needs to be said but I guess it does. Having worked for politicians it just seems obvious to me. 😉

    And from the quotes above I don’t see that anybody flat out lied. More likely they just didn’t say everything they knew.

    //Chia: We’re not looking to move Milan//

    Didn’t say anything about whether or not Milan wanted to move or if they would move him if they can find a partner.

    //Milan’s Agent: (categorically) We have not been approached by the Oilers with respects to a trade.//

    And why would they if the original approach came from the agent or Milan until such time as the Oilers have a deal they can live with.

    The way I read it is that Chiarelli and Lucic have tremendous respect for each other from their time together in Boston. Neither wants to embarrass the other or put them in a tight spot. I wouldn’t be at all surprised that Lucic wants out if his wife is unhappy but that he is totally professional about his commitment until it can happen.

    That might have to wait a year.

  48. Marc says:

    Lowetide: Frank had something he trusted and ran with it. I respect his reporting, he has proven to be trustworthy.

    I have no doubt he had something. The more interesting question in my mind is why he has it and from whom he got it.

    Saying that the current situation is ‘almost untenable’ to an Edmonton media personality, when Oilers management have been saying publicly that they expect Lucic to start the season with the OIlers suggests it’s from a source that has an interest in pressuring the Oilers to move Lucic sooner rather than later.

    Who might have an interest in pressuring the Oilers to move Lucic sooner rather than later?

    Two possiblities are:
    1. Someone in Lucic’s camp
    2. A team that has made a offer for Lucic and is trying to pressure the Oilers into accepting it

    The interesting thing about the former would be the apparent escalation from the previous indications that Lucic would prefer to play somewhere else, but isn’t “demanding” a trade.

    The interesting thing about the latter is that it suggests demand for Lucic – it would be odd if a team that really isn’t that interested in Lucic and needs to be bribed with a sweetener to do so, would then go to the media to pressure Chia into accepting what they’ve offered.

  49. leadfarmer says:

    speeds,

    I always thought he would be bought out when CBA expires even if he didn’t fall off this quickly but now he may get moved as the cap keeps rising and very little talent is making it to free agency. He does need to show some improvement that he is not just circling the drain

  50. Dominoiler says:

    Lowetide: Well, we’ll see. Sometimes things are said for a reason and that reason could be to deflect. If there’s nothing here, we shouldn’t hear a thing about it moving forward. My read was as yours, but Frank isn’t going to report something just to spike his last appearance of summer on the Lowdown. It’s a ‘goodbye, have a great summer’ hit, but Frank had something he trusted and ran with it. I respect his reporting, he has proven to be trustworthy.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, Frank S. didn’t claim to be waving around any insider information, he was saying the oilers were crap to end the season and still haven’t addressed RW or RD.. so he went on to elaborate they it’s not ok, in his opinion, that chia says ‘alright boys, I’ve done enough here, use the same flawed roster and make some chicken salad’.. it’s the managers job to improve the roster.. (at least the pk has finally been somewhat restocked, a year friggin late mind you!)

    Frank S also gave a personal opinion when saying the oilers can’t afford to bring back / play lucic, not just because of cap but because he played too slow last year.. So what the double hockey sticks are people whining about, posters have been saying that for 10 months to 2 years already; how has that personal opinion being construed as a Toronto insider narrative?!..

    Everything Frank S said was reasonable, exception being that all the ragging someone could go on about wouldn’t magically restock the oilers farm system or reduce the cap crunch or make trading lucic viable.. Frank S was probably guilty of whining like the majority of posters here for chia not having a magic wand to fix all the very real problems with the oilers roster (self inflicted harm certainly included).. instead he could have found the Lowetide silver lining that at least he didn’t make things worse and did provide some incremental improvement.. enough for the playoffs?.. better hope kosk provides another year at 0.940..

  51. russ99 says:

    Gotta think the ship has sailed on a Lucic move as there’s not much left available to spend his cap space on and it’s just not worth it to move a sweetener and/or get an equally overpaid and underperforming player back.

    Player and team should bite the bullet and get ready for the season, one where better performance from the player world go a long way towards making a trade viable if that’s what they want.

  52. Dominoiler says:

    Oh, and not meant to be a criticism of LT, rather a defence of how weirdly this has been blown up..

    Side note, David Staples is looney.. can I say that without it being censured?.. I’d say more, but then, well…

  53. Kyle Hammermeister says:

    Jethro Tull: Okay, your logic is just a little skewed here. If you’re right, then an agent who’s client wants a trade is best off saying “my client wants a trade.” They owe no allegiance to the team, nor care about the return. In your own words “his sole purpose is to spin the narrative to best serve his client.” Telling everyone his client is staying put seems a bit deep game, non? His best bet is to sewer Lucic’s value so more teams will pick him up for cheap. They’ve already got the guaranteed money.

    And I said and acknowledged that there is something. But in the dog days of summer, plus a little hyperbole and here we are.

    A lot of teams don’t want players that ask for trades when the team is doing poorly. By letting teams know he requested a trade when the going gets tough reduces the amount of trade partners willing to take him. Well if reducing his value is the point to where the other teams are asking for a bigger sweetner to take the contract then you’re not making it easier to trade him. Maybe before someone would take Lucic for a 3rd rounder. Now that he has asked out they want you to throw in a prospect as well but Edmontont can’t afford to give up assets. You have to work with the team that is trying to trade you to increase the chance of getting traded. diminishing their return isn’t going to help the situation.

  54. Professor Q says:

    Dominoiler,

    I, personally, saw it as someone drinking into the East Coast Toronto Maple Leafs bias and bashing the Oilers for things they praised other teams for. It was egregiously negative and compared unfairly on par to a well-known negative and terrible situation in Ottawa, as well as a less-terrible situation in Carolina. Without any indication of it being factual or coming from a source – just an opinion (which we all are allowed to have).

    People claiming he got it from an inside source might be exacerbating the issue, too, indeed. It all makes it go into a tailspin, or snowball.

    Regardless of the actual situation or Lucic’s impact, mentally or physically. Regardless of if he needs to be moved or not, or will be in the near future.

  55. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The gangin on Serevelli by a certain a susbsect of the Oilers community, which I respect, has been very disappointing to me.Serevelli’s response to Staples was unprofessional and unnecessary but it’s time to end the childish game and I’ve expressed that opinion directly to some who are playing allot.

    You’re off base here.

    Staples indicated he believed Serevalli fabricated his information and Frank called him on it while pointing out the Staples is the one writing about a radio conversation and not actually doing any reporting.

    His response was biting, but not unprofessional.

  56. Bank Shot says:

    Keeping Lucic if you need a sweetener to trade him is the smart play here.

    Either:
    1. He bounces back to 45-50 points, at which time you can trade him and get some kind of value for him.

    2.He has another bad year and you just use a compliance buyout on him after the NHLPA opts out of the CBA in September of 2019.

    Both ways you are clear of the contract without having to give up assets.

  57. Primetime says:

    As someone mentioned, these men have reputations.

    To me that is precisely why the “official” word from player/agent/GM have been as such.

    Milan’s reputation is as a stand-up, no nonsense, ultimate team guy. That is partly why he was brought here, and would be the main reason why he would be wanted on another team (newsflash-it won’t be for his current ability at the hockey). If it was widely known that he wants out of a situation for personal reasons, his rep and therefore his value, as the ultimate team guy would be diminished. Thus, his agents steadfast denial does help his client in reputation.

    The one thing I know for sure, is he is an even bigger FAMILY first guy. There is no way Milan would give official credence to a view that he want’s out because of family unhappiness here, especially in light of recent social media attacks/issues involving wives/girlfriends. He would NEVER let his wife be used as any excuse as to why he would want to leave. Which, to me, is the main reason why his agent is so clearly saying the Lucic’s have NOT asked for a trade. In fact, he went as far as saying that if the Oilers want to “get out of the contract” they will have to find another way. Who says that? Someone who knows the GM is close to the player and would be willing to shoulder the blame of the signing and subsequent move. “Milan didn’t want to go, but I approached him as I needed his capspace for my new vision of the team”. Believe it or not, I think Chia is a standup guy too and would be willing to take a hit for a favorite player and his family.

  58. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The gangin on Serevelli by a certain a susbsect of the Oilers community, which I respect, has been very disappointing to me.Serevelli’s response to Staples was unprofessional and unnecessary but it’s time to end the childish game and I’ve expressed that opinion directly to some who are playing allot.

    Staples has been provoking the blogging community for years and deserves all the derision he gets.

    He is incredibly disingenuous and takes quotes out of context so he can beat whatever hobby horse he’s riding that day.

    He’s taken things I have written out of context to frame issues and didn’t respond to my request that he clarify what I was writing about.

    I’m not the only one he’s done this with either.

    Incredibly he still had the chutzpah to ask me to write for CoH after Jon left.

  59. Richard S.S. says:

    In one year’s time after the July 1st bonus is paid, Lucic’s Cap Hit remains $6.0 Million for four more years. A Team will pay him just $16.0 Million over that time. That has value when trying to meet the Floor. It’s more value than trading him now. Suggesting that he might have a worse year is ridiculous – someone is panicing.

    Frank Seravalli could be right. Pre-Draft discussion was certainly made within the organization about trading Lucic. Possible returns probably disinclined any more trade talk. There were offers made during the draft that Peter passed on. Frank maybe pushing the issue, but the issue is there. Just not being acted on.

  60. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Jethro Tull: Well, here’s a thing. Not THE thing, as I have no idea what that is.

    The local beat writers had not a lot on this. Then a national not traditionally connected with the team starts bandying about phrases like “situation is untenable” and “something has to give.”

    I’ve no doubt that Frank heard something. Maybe distant or through unconventional channels. But the catagorical statement from the agent is my tell. Those are forever quotable words.

    And don’t forget the human factor. Never forget that people can be nice people, good people but just as jerky as the next one if they feel slighted.

    Some of the National guys have much better sources than the local guys on this stuff.

    Having a network of agents and assistant GMs who talk to you because you’re National has its benefits.

  61. Primetime says:

    As for Serevalli:

    Does he ever report or even discuss the Leafs? Painting him with that rep because you don’t agree with him doesn’t seem fair. When has he ever said outrageous things about the Oilers or any other team? I would assume he had at least some info to go on. Many have stated that none of the local guys have said as much so it can’t be real. I don’t think that’s true. Non of the local guys dependent on team access have said that. I believe both Nielsen and Gregor have reported about a possible trade request, and both have mentioned they actually know that he would accept a trade to more teams than we think. Where would they get that from if it has never been discussed? Neither of them are rumor mongers. It seems to me both of them seem to be more connected to players themselves (vs. other media connection to the official team public relations). At the vary least, they seem more connected to social circles where actual info like this comes from. Now all are TSN employees…could they be Serevalli’s source? Maybe. But how does Andy Strickland, who never reports on the Oil, say there is framework of a trade in place? That doesn’t get him any more listeners in his area. He got it from another side/source. Just because it didn’t come through, doesn’t mean it wasn’t discussed and possible.

    Staples started the article saying that comparison to Karlsson situation was unfair, which it was. However, he went on to basically say all his opinion was crap. He deserved the shot back from Frank

  62. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Professor Q: So, does this mean you and Woodguy retract your feelings on the Hall deal?

    If Larsson brings Edmonton two Cups, it’s worth it even if Hall also wins two Cups? Even if (as many sentiments are here) the possibility of more Cups in Edmonton could have been possible? It seems similar in logic, just at different distances along the path.

    I’m not sure what $6 million could even get Edmonton in replacement of Lucic, aside from maybe extra space to sign Puljujärvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard, Maksimov, etc., which IS a good thing to have. This is in reference to if he’ll bounce back to a 50-60 point player. It seems those types of players are getting $6-7 million per deals now, maybe more in the near future.

    Two questions:

    1) Why are you including me in your response?

    2) If EDM wins the Cup you’re going to characterize it as “Larsson Brings EDM The Cup?”

  63. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    leadfarmer: And that’s why a B level sweetener is not enough to move him. I think if that was an option it would have happened already.

    I think he has enough cachet that it could be done.

    We’ll know more if he’s still an Oiler in September

  64. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Lowetide: As long as the general manager isn’t allowed to turn around and sign another devastating contract, I agree. Need that in writing though.

    I would accept that in blood or stone.

  65. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Professor Q:
    Dominoiler,

    I, personally, saw it as someone drinking into the East Coast Toronto Maple Leafs bias and bashing the Oilers for things they praised other teams for. It was egregiously negative and compared unfairly on par to a well-known negative and terrible situation in Ottawa, as well as a less-terrible situation in Carolina. Without any indication of it being factual or coming from a source – just an opinion (which we all are allowed to have).

    People claiming he got it from an inside source might be exacerbating the issue, too, indeed. It all makes it go into a tailspin, or snowball.

    Regardless of the actual situation or Lucic’s impact, mentally or physically. Regardless of if he needs to be moved or not, or will be in the near future.

    Frank is American and from Philly.

    He picked the Oilers to win the Cup last year.

  66. Alpine says:

    Lucic will probably not bounce back to 50-60 points. He definitely won’t be close to 60. In the last 4 seasons he has scored more than 50 points once, scored exactly 50 once, scored less than 45 twice, and scored less than 35 once. His average point in the last 4 seasons is 46. He’s already in decline. The big bad Lucic from the Boston cup contending years left a long time ago.

  67. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    Marc:

    Two possiblities are:
    1. Someone in Lucic’s camp
    2. A team that has made a offer for Lucic and is trying to pressure the Oilers into accepting it

    #2 strikes me as possible. if Lucic’ value hinges in large part on his professionalism and intangibles, leadership abilities, etc…, then the verbal (or lack thereof) from himself and his agent as well as the Oilers makes a great deal of sense. To the Oilers, these remain his greatest assets. Cause its not on the ice, where I agree he has played himself out of the top 6, and the OIlers can’t claim otherwise as per eye or stat.

    If another team is really interested in putting the screws on the Oil, what better way than to devalue him from the inside out? All of a sudden the Oilers can’t say “We value him for his intangibles so we aren’t willing to go to that length on a sweetener…” The response is quickly, “Oh yeah, well thats not what Frank says…”

  68. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Frank is American and from Philly.

    He picked the Oilers to win the Cup last year.

    Frank is currently working for TSN in Toronto.

    I am talking about right now, not last year.

  69. Richard S.S. says:

    Reporters and Media people reported the news, and did it very well. In the rush to be first to report/print, the need to be 100% accurate was gradually lessened/ignored. Presently Reporters/Media people pro-actively create the news/report the news, so the accuracy is blurred.

    Blogs on the other hand, report what they can and discuss everything possible. By their nature, they trend closer to worst case scenario than they do to best case scenario and can be a lot of fun. Fans can run from casual interest to rabid fanatics which makes things interesting.

    People don’t want to think if at all possible – not a lot of original thought – more monkey see, monkey do. When this occurs, life gets interesting.

  70. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Two questions:

    1) Why are you including me in your response?

    2) If EDM wins the Cup you’re going to characterize it as “Larsson Brings EDM The Cup?”

    You were in the discussion and who the poster responded to. Sharing similar logic in your discussion. Also based on previous discussions on Lucic, Larsson, Hall, etc.

    I never said I would one way or the other, nor gave my thoughts on the matter. I was using both of your logics to frame a similar scenario.

  71. Alpine says:

    Also, Oilers fans need to stop the letting the Leafs and East Coast media live rent-free inside their heads. Already there’s been some connection between the Seravelli and the Leafs where no such thing exists in reality. The Leafs media and the East Coast bias do not care about the Oilers. And this franchise does not deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being criticized by Eastern media once they spend a hot minute remembering we exist.

  72. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    Alpine,

    Not to comment on the media, but having lived and worked in Toronto post-McDavid draft, I think there is an element of Oilers in the heads of their fanbase as well.

    Leafs Nation despises and resents that 97 is an Oiler, that’s a fact.

    The worse the Oilers do creates some sense of satisfaction between Front Street and Barrie.

    Edit: Not to say I don’t agree with you.

  73. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: You’re off base here.

    Staples indicated he believed Serevalli fabricated his information and Frank called him on it while pointing out the Staples is the one writing about a radio conversation and not actually doing any reporting.

    His response was biting, but not unprofessional.

    Where did Staples say that Seravalli fabricated something? He basically said Seravalli was stirring the pot by comparing it to the Karlsson situation. Staples and Seravalli have been in the business a long time. This type of controversy should be nothing new to either of them.

  74. Professor Q says:

    Chelios is a Dinosaur,

    I guess this is also where I get it from. Growing up and living in Leafs Nation has inundated me and…jaded (?) me. I see the cognitive dissonance and bias first-hand, and the resentment of Edmonton and McDavid (and all those First OV picks! Despite other teams also picking high for years and years…).

  75. Chelios is a Dinosaur says:

    Professor Q,

    You know they used to play hockey in that Loblaws on Carlton? Grainy black and white photographs remain suggesting there once were cups in Toronto. When it looked like a stovepipe.

  76. speeds says:

    Bank Shot:
    Keeping Lucic if you need a sweetener to trade him is the smart play here.

    Either:
    1. He bounces back to 45-50 points, at which time you can trade him and get some kind of value for him.

    2.He has another bad year and you just use a compliance buyout on him after the NHLPA opts out of the CBA in September of 2019.

    Both ways you are clear of the contract without having to give up assets.

    There are more possibilities than the two you present. Its not a certainty (maybe it is, but not with the info I have read in the public sphere) that Lucic will be willing to waive in a year if his play and the team both bounce back. I dont think it hurts to be aware that the poor year for the team might provide an opportunity to move Lucic that wont necessarily always be there (although the team is much better positioned to know if Lucic will want to move next summer). Maybe his trade value is better in that scenario than it is now, but if he then isnt willing to waive his NMC at that point, it doesnt matter how much, or if, his trade value has improved if they cant move him.

    It also isnt a certainty that (a) the CBA ends early or (b) if it does, compliance buy outs will occur as part of it, or that EDM would necessarily, definitely, absolutely, use one on Lucic.

    Using a prospect worth, say, a 2nd round pick to move Lucic with no money retained would make a ton of sense to me. Could it work out better a different way in a year, sure, that is possible. But IMO clearing the space now, the certainty of it, is well worth that cost.

  77. Dominoiler says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Two questions:

    1) Why are you including me in your response?

    2) If EDM wins the Cup you’re going to characterize it as “Larsson Brings EDM The Cup?”

    (I’m including you in this response because i wanted to repeat your response..)

    If EDM wins the Cup you’re going to characterize it as “Larsson Brings EDM The Cup?”

    lol

    And thanks for laying out your position on Staples, said it better than i would and shows the cavalier attitude taken with representing other writers work (LT is too classy to say it, i bet, but it’s funny, or not, when i hear certain daily themes / sentences almost word for word repeated between this blog and that podcast)..

  78. defmn says:

    Not to change the subject 😉 but lost in the hockey talk is that Lowetide’s mother-in-law was some kind of saint.

    There are so many examples of human failings in the world I think it is important to note that every once in awhile human nature shines.

    What an example for your children as they were growing up.

  79. Marc says:

    Woodguy v2.0: I think he has enough cachet that it could be done.

    We’ll know more if he’s still an Oiler in September

    I’m not sure that Lucic being an Oiler in September necessarily means that they didn’t get an offer worth taking. There’s a non-zero chance that they get one or more reasonable offers that they turn down for ‘hockey’ reasons ie. they think next year’s team will be better with Lucic than with whatever they get back in the trade.

    I think that VOR mentioned one such offer that he’d heard about a few weeks ago.

    I don’t get the sense that the Oilers are too worried about the long term implications of Lucic’s contract, which is the main reason to even consider moving him for a marginal or even negative ie. with a sweetener return.

    The uncharitable/pessimistic/frighteningly plausible reason for this would be that they don’t realise just how stark the decline in Lucic’s underlying numbers are, and so are miscalculating the risk that Lucic has a season that’s as bad or worse than this one, causing what interest there is in him this offseason to dry up, leaving them with an immovable, unbuyoutable player eating $6M of cap space for years to come.

    A slightly more charitable reason for this would be that as bad as last season was for him, he was still their fourth higherst scorer, and the lesson that Chia may have taken from the Eberle trade is don’t assume that you can easily replace the scoring of an established player internally if you trade him (a somewhat better lesson to take from that trade might be don’t trade a consistent top line forward for a consisent third line forward, but we are where we are).

    The most optimistic, but not completely implausible reason would be that there has been sufficient interest in Lucic this summer to convince them that they’ll certainly be able to trade next summer when he’ll only be owed $12M cash over the final four years of his contract. Worth noting that Friedman said when all this first came to light (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-vegas-thinking-re-visiting-erik-karlsson-deal/) that “It doesn’t look like an easy trade to make without taking back a big contract, but the team seems confident there will be a fit.”

  80. Ryan says:

    speeds:

    1.It also isnt a certainty that (a) the CBA ends early or (b) if it does, compliance buy outs will occur as part of it, or that EDM would necessarily, definitely, absolutely, use one on Lucic.

    2.Using a prospect worth, say, a 2nd round pick to move Lucic with no money retained would make a ton of sense to me. Could it work out better a different way in a year, sure, that is possible.But IMO clearing the space now, the certainty of it, is well worth that cost.

    1. That’s a scary thought!

    2. I am no insider, but i can’t at all foresee a scenario where a team would take on the Lucic contract at full price for only a second round pic without getting rid of a bad contract in exchange.

    To move the Lucic contract, they will need to retain salary, at least $1.5m, and provide a sweetener unless they are taking a toxic contract in return.

  81. digger50 says:

    This is a split in the road.

    If you believe there is some truth to Seravelli’s words then Milan will be traded and the discussion centres around what to do with that cap space and vacant roster slot. The left side will look different without him so how should” it look?

    If you believe there is no truth to Seravelli’s words, or they are greatly exaggerated then discussion of Milan’s season, value, points, roster placement is relavant

    One little point to add. Is it at all interesting that the club has never once (that I recall) mentioned any concerns about cap space? Not from Peter not from Bob N. Is this relevant?

  82. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Professor Q: Frank is currently working for TSN in Toronto.

    I am talking about right now, not last year.

    You characterized him as slagging the Oilers because of you”saw it as someone drinking into the East Coast Toronto Maple Leafs bias and bashing the Oilers for things they praised other teams for.”

    I showed evidence that your take shows an Edmonton bias (everyone who works for TSN loves the Leafs and hates the Oilers) and has no basis in history.

    I read Frank and listen to him quite a bit.

    He’s not Simmons or Cox or any other journalist who has covered the Leafs for a long time.

    By your standards Ryan Risaug should have the same biases as Frank.

    Do you think that as well?

  83. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Professor Q: You were in the discussion and who the poster responded to. Sharing similar logic in your discussion. Also based on previous discussions on Lucic, Larsson, Hall, etc.

    I never said I would one way or the other, nor gave my thoughts on the matter. I was using both of your logics to frame a similar scenario.

    If that was logic is was a looooooooooooooooong leap

  84. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Professor Q: You were in the discussion and who the poster responded to. Sharing similar logic in your discussion. Also based on previous discussions on Lucic, Larsson, Hall, etc.

    I never said I would one way or the other, nor gave my thoughts on the matter. I was using both of your logics to frame a similar scenario.

    Using the cap space saved on Lucic to add a player that helps and not hurts is equal to trading Hall for Larson?

  85. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    JimmyV1965: Where did Staples say that Seravalli fabricated something? He basically said Seravalli was stirring the pot by comparing it to the Karlsson situation. Staples and Seravalli have been in the business a long time. This type of controversy should be nothing new to either of them.

    Here’s the exchange:

    Poster @17Kurri replies to Staples’ post on the Lucic situation based on Frank’s radio conversation with LT:

    @17Kurri
    Seravelli’s reaonably connected to have info many other may not, so maybe he knows something that does indeed make the Lucic situation untenable.

    Staples replies:

    @dstaples
    I see no indication that he does have this info, so I put little or no weight in that notion

    He straight out says doesn’t think Frank has the info, therefore Frank is making shit up.

  86. VOR says:

    I don’t know David Staples. I don’t know Frank Serevalli. I have read and listened to both of them for a number of years with pleasure and to my benefit. Each has their strengths and weaknesses as a source of information. I value both of them as sources of information but think in this case neither one is doing much reporting.

    The irony is the actual story (and there is one) seems to be eluding them entirely.

    Let’s pretend we are the editors for these two writers. We know the following facts:

    1. Milan Lucic is a standup guy. Team and teammates matter to him deeply. He has made clear how much family matters to him. The two appear to maybe be in conflict at the moment and conflict is at the heart of all great writing.
    2. And there is a wealth of context. Milan has gone through a lot in a short space of time. In five years he has gotten married, had three children, changed teams twice, and lost his father to suicide and that is just the stuff we know about.
    3. His wife, Brittany, has expressed some displeasure with how her husband is being treated by media and fans. Of course she was pregnant with their third child at the time. On May 17th they had a beautiful little boy, Milan Jr. Can Frank and David not see the narrative power?
    4. We know Milan had a terrible second half of last season. We had no choice but to report on that. However much it upset their domestic harmony. All we could do is hope they don’t read our blather. It appears that was not the case. So fairness says we should maybe look at what went wrong. A little self reflection might be appropriate.
    5. For example, we all know that Milan Lucic is not fat, nor is he out of shape. We know this because we’ve seen the Oiler’s fitness testing data and a number of Conditioning Coaches who have worked with him have confirmed that he is a superbly conditioned pro. Yet we know somehow that came to dominate public discourse. We know the Oilers or for that matter the Lucic camp could have stopped it at any time but so could any of us with a media pulpit and we all knew that narrative was horse shit. Why did no one in the media say so?
    6. We know ridiculous rumours have begun to circulate and not just about trades. Some of those rumours are almost certainly being spread by other teams, the Oilers, and the Lucic camp. However, we have done our own share of rumour mongering. Well we need to fill those column inches. But still shouldn’t we break a sweat and get the story instead of turning into full fledged gossips.
    7. We know in Milan’s own words that his daughters are at the princess dress stage and that he isn’t finding it easy to bond with his younger teammates because his girls and now his son come first.
    8. We know in Milan’s own words that he is working incredibly hard to try to remain relevant in today’s game.

    Is there the chance for a major profile piece that takes us inside the yawning generation gap that exists between a veteran team leader and the young people he is trying to lead? Could we not talk openly and honestly about depression, suicide, grief and recovery? Could we not reveal the joys and struggles of a young family that lives in the public eye? Christ, could we not slip in a few words about current state of the art science on thinking faster? Maybe we could spare a few words on how having children changes our ideas about what is important? Is it not possible to take all this and produce timely, important and powerful journalism? The stuff guys like Frank and David get paid to produce.

    My question as an Editor would be why they aren’t all over this story?

  87. Marc says:

    Thanks for that VOR.

    Brilliantly put.

  88. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Here’s the exchange:

    Poster @17Kurri replies to Staples’ post on the Lucic situation based on Frank’s radio conversation with LT:

    @17Kurri
    Seravelli’s reaonably connected to have info many other may not, so maybe he knows something that does indeed make the Lucic situation untenable.

    Staples replies:

    @dstaples
    I see no indication that he does have this info, so I put little or no weight in that notion

    He straight out says doesn’t think Frank has the info, therefore Frank is making shit up.

    The key word here is untenable. I have seen nothing from anyone that suggests the situation is untenable. I would suggest that Seravalli was engaged in a conversation with LT and slipped into a little hyperbole. No big deal. Happens all the time.

    If given a chance to reflect on it, I’m sure Seravalli would reconsider his use of the word untenable. It’s a very strong word. I certainly don’t read into Staples’ comments that he thinks Seravalli is fabricating anything.

    I’m shocked two veteran reporters would get into a Twitter battle over something as minor as this. In the realm of journalistic integrity this debate is beyond meh. Two guys with differing viewpoints.

  89. JimmyV1965 says:

    VOR:
    I don’t know David Staples. I don’t know Frank Serevalli. I have read and listened to both of them for a number of years with pleasure and to my benefit. Each has their strengths and weaknesses as a source of information. I value both of them as sources of information but think in this case neither one is doing much reporting.

    The irony is the actual story (and there is one) seems to be eluding them entirely.

    Let’s pretend we are the editors for these two writers. We know the following facts:

    1. Milan Lucic is a standup guy. Team and teammates matter to him deeply. He has made clear how much family matters to him. The two appear to maybe be in conflict at the moment and conflict is at the heart of all great writing.
    2. And there is a wealth of context. Milan has gone through a lot in a short space of time. In five years he has gotten married, had three children, changed teams twice, and lost his father to suicide and that is just the stuff we know about.
    3. His wife, Brittany, has expressed some displeasure with how her husband is being treated by media and fans. Of course she was pregnant with their third child at the time. On May 17th they had a beautiful little boy, Milan Jr. Can Frank and David not see the narrative power?
    4. We know Milan had a terrible second half of last season. We had no choice but to report on that. However much it upset their domestic harmony. All we could do is hope they don’t read our blather. It appears that was not the case. So fairness says we should maybe look at what went wrong. A little self reflection might be appropriate.
    5. For example, we all know that Milan Lucic is not fat, nor is he out of shape. We know this because we’ve seen the Oiler’s fitness testing data and a number of Conditioning Coaches who have worked with him have confirmed that he is a superbly conditioned pro. Yet we know somehow that came to dominate public discourse. We know the Oilers or for that matter the Lucic camp could have stopped it at any time but so could any of us with a media pulpit and we all knew that narrative was horse shit. Why did no one in the media say so?
    6. We know ridiculous rumours have begun to circulate and not just about trades. Some of those rumours are almost certainly being spread by other teams, the Oilers, and the Lucic camp. However, we have done our own share of rumour mongering. Well we need to fill those column inches. But still shouldn’t we break a sweat and get the story instead of turning into full fledged gossips.
    7. We know in Milan’s own words that his daughters are at the princess dress stage and that he isn’t finding it easy to bond with his younger teammates because his girls and now his son come first.
    8. We know in Milan’s own words that he is working incredibly hard to try to remain relevant in today’s game.

    Is there the chance for a major profile piece that takes us inside the yawning generation gap that exists between a veteran team leader and the young people he is trying to lead? Could we nottalk openly and honestly about depression, suicide, grief and recovery? Could we not reveal the joys and struggles of a young family that lives in the public eye? Christ, could we not slip in a few words about current state of the art science on thinking faster? Maybe we could spare a few words on how having children changes our ideas about what is important? Is it not possible to take all this and produce timely, important and powerful journalism? The stuff guys like Frank and David get paid to produce.

    My question as an Editor would be why they aren’t all over this story?

    Of course we have no idea if the editors have tried to report on this. Other than the angle about the science of thinking faster, all of these storylines would require interviews with Milan Lucic.

    I find it highly unlikely that he would be willing to go there. I was actually shocked to see his comments in the article written at Christmas. I forget who the author was.

    In my reading of the player, he would hate to be a distraction and in-depth personal pieces like the ones you suggested would likely be considered a distraction by the player.

  90. Woogie63 says:

    Our new Steve Austin’s

    Capfriend
    Highest to lowest

    CapHit

    Lucic
    2016 68th in the NHL, 50 points
    2017 77th in the NHL, 34 points
    2018 82nd in the NHL

    Hopkins
    2916 54th in the NHL, 43 points
    2017 64th in the NHL, 48 points
    2018 71st in the NHL

  91. Munny says:

    JimmyV1965: I’m shocked two veteran reporters would get into a Twitter battle over something as minor as this.

    I’m shocked the community here would waste half a day discussing it to tell you the truth.

  92. John Chambers says:

    My read is that there is an offer or a couple of offers on the table for Lucic. None of them, in Chiarelli’s opinion, are a better option for the upcoming season than simply retaining Lucic.

    I bet Lucic rebounds from last season. Maybe he puts up 17 goals and 40 points. It’s okay, but declining performance. I bet Chia sees it this way.

    The other options are probably guys like Andrew Shaw, whose barely an NHL’er at $4M x 4. Or Scott Darling, or Dion Phaneuf.

    So yeah he’s movable and the play at some point will be to move him, but currently the best option for the Oilers to succeed in ‘18-‘19 is to hope Lucic rebounds to a useful middle-6 winger.

  93. John Chambers says:

    If they can trade Sekera’s or Russell’s contract next summer, then it becomes reasonable to trade Lucic for Phaneuf.

    If that option is available this summer, and Lucic performs decently this season, then that option is probably there again next summer.

  94. JimmyV1965 says:

    Munny: I’m shocked the community here would waste half a day discussing it to tell you the truth.

    LOL. So true. Summer I guess.

  95. oilpower says:

    VOR,

    Well put! Also, as someone who got married three years ago, to a woman with three kids plus one together. I can confirm that life priorities change quickly, I struggle to keep in touch with people I have known my whole life that are only a few years younger then me. Also having started a company with two of my siblings,at the same time I was getting married, changed things a lot. Now I couldn’t even think how hard all that would be while living in the public eye in a new city having lost my father! However lessons learned and I’m better now then I was. But a pregnant wife that feels her husband isn’t being treated fair can be a distraction even if she is just trying to help you get what she feels is right for you. I guess what I’m trying to say is, we don’t know the facts about his personal life so.. what vor said!

  96. --hudson-- says:

    On the Maroon to St. Louis story, the Blues have about $5M in cap space according to capfriendly and they still need to sign Edmundson. If you imagine Edmundson getting the Kris Russell contract, then the Blues will need to move a body unless Maroon only plans on signing for $1M this year.

    Somebody could be shaking loose from the Blues if this happens.

  97. OriginalPouzar says:

    Richard S.S.:
    1) IF Lucic can be traded after last Season the return will not be worth much.How much more must be added to make such a trade work?This could be counter-productive move.
    (a) Will there be Cap space? Extremely unlikely, the return might cost more.At best, not more than $600 K.
    (b) The return might just be as much of a sunk cost – definitely not an asset.

    2) IF Lucic stays and has a sucessful year, this could be a best case scenario.The question becomes, do you trade him?
    (a) Will there be Cap space?Most assuredly, perhaps $3.5 Million or more – maybe even $6.0 Million.
    (b) The return will vary.Absolute minimum is a first round pick and an asset.There will holes to fill.

    3) IF Lucic stays and had less than a sucessful year.A decision becomes, was the Season good enough?A Buyout is a last case resort.It eats up Cap space for eight years.Otherwise see 1).

    A buyout (non compliance) is not a last resort, its not a legit option. His contract is heavily signing bonus based and there is minimal cap savings up a buyout (signing bonuses cannot be bought out – they get paid in full and remain on the cap in full).

  98. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    JimmyV1965: The key word here is untenable. I have seen nothing from anyone that suggests the situation is untenable. I would suggest that Seravalli was engaged in a conversation with LT and slipped into a little hyperbole. No big deal. Happens all the time.

    If given a chance to reflect on it, I’m sure Seravalli would reconsider his use of the word untenable.It’s a very strong word.I certainly don’t read into Staples’ comments that he thinks Seravalli is fabricating anything.

    I’m shocked two veteran reporters would get into a Twitter battle over something as minor as this. In the realm of journalistic integrity this debate is beyond meh. Two guys with differing viewpoints.

    That’s fair.

    Also,

    David is not a sports reporter.

    He has an Oiler blog at the Journal, but he’s a city/general interest columnist.

    Most, if not all, of the local sports media *hate* when he’s mentioned among them as a sports reporter.

  99. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: You’re off base here.

    Staples indicated he believed Serevalli fabricated his information and Frank called him on it while pointing out the Staples is the one writing about a radio conversation and not actually doing any reporting.

    His response was biting, but not unprofessional.

    I disagree with your opinion (not fact) that I am off-base.

    The response was pretentious and condescending (and therefore unnecessary and unprofessional).

    The responses to the response have been worse.

    Its childish and all involved in the social media attacks are embarrass and should stop.

  100. Bank Shot says:

    speeds: There are more possibilities than the two you present. Its not a certainty (maybe it is, but not with the info I have read in the public sphere) that Lucic will be willing to waive in a year if his play and the team both bounce back. I dont think it hurts to be aware that the poor year for the team might provide an opportunity to move Lucic that wont necessarily always be there (although the team is much better positioned to know if Lucic will want to move next summer). Maybe his trade value is better in that scenario than it is now, but if he then isnt willing to waive his NMC at that point, it doesnt matter how much, or if, his trade value has improved if they cant move him.

    It also isnt a certainty that (a) the CBA ends early or (b) if it does, compliance buy outs will occur as part of it, or that EDM would necessarily, definitely, absolutely, use one on Lucic.

    Using a prospect worth, say, a 2nd round pick to move Lucic with no money retained would make a ton of sense to me. Could it work out better a different way in a year, sure, that is possible.But IMO clearing the space now, the certainty of it, is well worth that cost.

    I mean I guess you can try to trade him away now, but you are bleeding value which is one of the biggest criticisms of Chiarelli.

    Then you have to backfill his spot for the upcoming season and there aren’t any good players left to do so.

    I think if Lucic wants to leave it’s unlikely that in the future he does a complete 180 and will be dead set against leaving.

    I also think the odds of the NHLPA not opting out of the CBA is very small based on how the negotiations for the Olympics went.

    And if there is a work stoppage there is a buyout window. Whether the Oilers would buy Lucic out? Well nothing has stopped them before. They bought out Pouliot when it was clear they couldn’t dump that contract.

    My idea carries more risk for sure. I just think its a small risk and a better payoff if things turn out.

  101. OriginalPouzar says:

    Richard S.S.:
    In one year’s time after the July 1st bonus is paid, Lucic’s Cap Hit remains $6.0 Million for four more years.A Team will pay him just $16.0 Million over that time.That has value when trying to meet the Floor.It’s more value than trading him now.Suggesting that he might have a worse year is ridiculous – someone is panicing.

    But who are these teams that need to hit the cap floor and are struggling to do so? ARI, OTT, CAR, etc. all well above the cap floor.

    Even if there is a team or two that is struggling to get to the cap floor, the ability to work out a trade with such a team and for the team to be one where Lucic is willing to waive to go to, seems highly minute.

  102. RonnieB says:

    It seems to me that the main thrust of this thread is looking at the Oilers/Lucic dilemna from only one perspective. Is Lucic a boat anchor for the Oilers at a cap hit of $6 million ? Absolutely. No question about it. Would the Oiers benefit by unloading that Cap hit ? Absolutely. No question.

    What is being ignored is the question “what value does Lucic have to another team ?” . Well, to start with he will not score at a 15-point pace next year like he did in the second half of last season. Also, he will not cost another team $6 million for 5 years; There is only a 5-year average of $4.5 million remaining on his contract, and just $3.5 salary owing this season. Lucic is not a $6 million player anymore, but is he a $4.5 million value to some team ? Maybe. How about if the Oilers agree to pick up 10/15% of the $6 Cap? Would he be a positive valued asset at a 5-year Cap of $5.1/5.4 and an average 5 year salary of $3.6/3.9 ? In fact the first year out of pocket would only be $2.6/2.9. Which teams would benefit from that ? Ottawa and Carolina immediately spring to mind and the Oilers might get a decent prospect in return rather than having to sweeten the pot.

    Some of the comments remind me of a year ago when there were suggestions that we should leave Eberle unprotected for Vegas. Now people are bemoaning the perceived poor return we got in that trade.

    If i sound frustrated it’s because i am. Sorry.

  103. LadiesloveSmid says:

    RonnieB,

    Yesterday someone’s saying the commenters loved the Russell re-signing, now everyone wanted to expose Eberle? Don’t recall any of this

  104. RonnieB says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    RonnieB,

    Yesterday someone’s saying the commenters loved the Russell re-signing, now everyone wanted to expose Eberle? Don’t recall any of this

    How does “there were suggestions” equate to “everyone” in your mind ?

  105. Lowetide says:

    For The Athletic: The 2018-19 Bakersfield Condors have a chance to be the best Oilers farm team in many years

    https://theathletic.com/424482/2018/07/08/the-2018-19-bakersfield-condors-suggest-an-upturn-in-development-for-oilers-farmhands/

  106. workaroundaccount says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    RonnieB,

    Yesterday someone’s saying the commenters loved the Russell re-signing, now everyone wanted to expose Eberle? Don’t recall any of this

    Reinhart trade was universally praised. Nobody regrets Hall for Larsen.

  107. JimmyV1965 says:

    Bank Shot: I mean I guess you can try to trade him away now, but you are bleeding value which is one of the biggest criticisms of Chiarelli.

    Then you have to backfill his spot for the upcoming season and there aren’t any good players left to do so.

    I think if Lucic wants to leave it’s unlikely that in the future he does a complete 180 and will be dead set against leaving.

    I also think the odds of the NHLPA not opting out of the CBA is very small based on how the negotiations for the Olympics went.

    And if there is a work stoppage there is a buyout window. Whether the Oilers would buy Lucic out? Well nothing has stopped them before. They bought out Pouliot when it was clear they couldn’t dump that contract.

    My idea carries more risk for sure. I just think its a small risk and a better payoff if things turn out.

    I’m not sure there has to be a work stoppage for compliance buyouts. I think both sides would agree regardless of a work stoppage.

  108. Bank Shot says:

    JimmyV1965: I’m not sure there has to be a work stoppage for compliance buyouts. I think both sides would agree regardless of a work stoppage.

    Agreed. Both sides love them some compliance buyouts. It’s a CBA staple.

    I think they renegotiate the CBA at first opportunity no matter what. Hoping they can avoid missing games this time. They are playing with fire there.

  109. workaroundaccount says:

    RonnieB:
    It seems to me that the main thrust of this thread is looking at the Oilers/Lucic dilemna from only one perspective. Is Lucic a boat anchor for the Oilers at a cap hit of $6 million ? Absolutely. No question about it. Would the Oiers benefit by unloading that Cap hit ? Absolutely. No question.

    What is being ignored is the question “what value does Lucic have to another team ?” . Well, to start with he will not score at a 15-point pace next year like he did in the second half of last season. Also, he will not cost another team $6 million for 5 years; There is only a 5-year average of $4.5 million remaining on his contract, and just $3.5 salary owing this season. Lucic is not a $6 million player anymore, but is he a $4.5 million value to some team ? Maybe. How about if the Oilers agree to pick up 10/15% of the $6 Cap? Would he be a positive valued asset at a 5-year Cap of $5.1/5.4 and an average 5 year salary of $3.6/3.9 ? In fact the first year out of pocket would only be $2.6/2.9. Which teams would benefit from that ? Ottawa and Carolina immediately spring to mind and the Oilers might get a decent prospect in return rather than having to sweeten the pot.

    Some of the comments remind me of a year ago when there were suggestions that we should leave Eberle unprotected for Vegas. Now people are bemoaning the perceived poor return we got in that trade.

    If i sound frustrated it’s because i am. Sorry.

    Very few teams value a player at their actual salary. The gap may have value to phoenix, but not 90% of the league.

  110. JimmyV1965 says:

    RonnieB:
    It seems to me that the main thrust of this thread is looking at the Oilers/Lucic dilemna from only one perspective. Is Lucic a boat anchor for the Oilers at a cap hit of $6 million ? Absolutely. No question about it. Would the Oiers benefit by unloading that Cap hit ? Absolutely. No question.

    What is being ignored is the question “what value does Lucic have to another team ?” . Well, to start with he will not score at a 15-point pace next year like he did in the second half of last season. Also, he will not cost another team $6 million for 5 years; There is only a 5-year average of $4.5 million remaining on his contract, and just $3.5 salary owing this season. Lucic is not a $6 million player anymore, but is he a $4.5 million value to some team ? Maybe. How about if the Oilers agree to pick up 10/15% of the $6 Cap? Would he be a positive valued asset at a 5-year Cap of $5.1/5.4 and an average 5 year salary of $3.6/3.9 ? In fact the first year out of pocket would only be $2.6/2.9. Which teams would benefit from that ? Ottawa and Carolina immediately spring to mind and the Oilers might get a decent prospect in return rather than having to sweeten the pot.

    Some of the comments remind me of a year ago when there were suggestions that we should leave Eberle unprotected for Vegas. Now people are bemoaning the perceived poor return we got in that trade.

    If i sound frustrated it’s because i am. Sorry.

    Holy crap. That brings back memories. The number of people who suggested we leave Eberle exposed to Vegas was bizarre and illustrates the hate for that player. Six months later everyone is bitching about the trade. For the record. I always liked the player and disliked the trade from day one. Same thing with Strome this year when people were saying we should just left him go rather than resign him. This can be an extremely tough fan base.

  111. workaroundaccount says:

    Woodguy v2.0: That’s fair.

    Also,

    David is not a sports reporter.

    He has an Oiler blog at the Journal, but he’s a city/general interest columnist.

    Most, if not all, of the local sports media *hate* when he’s mentioned among them as a sports reporter.

    Yeah, they are highly educated and incredibly knowledgeable. He certainly doesn’t understand the intricacies of stereotypes and heresay.

  112. Gerta Rauss says:

    ROGER: Excuse me.You’ve both been so kind to me, I baked you this pie.
    MARGE:That is so sweet.
    HOMER:Why do piemakers get all the girls?(THROWS PIE OUT PORTHOLE)
    MARGE: Why did you do that?
    HOMER:It was poisoned!
    MARGE:No it wasn’t!
    HOMER:Well, it was rhubarb.
    MARGE:No, it was berry-peach.
    HOMER: Berry-peach? That’s my favorite!
    MARGE:Please, Homer. I am so sick of this unmotivated jealousy(LOOKS OUR PORTHOLE,SEES DEAD FLOATING DOLPHIN-SCREAMS)
    MARGE:The pie was poisoned. You were right. I guess we’ve got to kill him before he kills us.
    HOMER:Well, we’d better do it quick, because he’s making scones!

  113. RonnieB says:

    workaroundaccount: Very few teams value a player at their actual salary. The gap may have value to phoenix, but not 90% of the league.

    According to Capfriendly, there are 16 teams with a minimum of $12 million in Cap Space. Out of those i could see 6 that might plausibly have an interest in Lucic and Lucic conceivably willing to waive his NMC…Carolina, Buffalo, Arizona, Islanders, Rangers, Devils.

  114. LadiesloveSmid says:

    RonnieB: How does “there were suggestions” equate to “everyone” in your mind ?

    If 3 people said it why is it worth bringing up 13 months later in your mind?

    There were suggestions that Draisaitl will be Joe Colborne around here!

  115. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Using the cap space saved on Lucic to add a player that helps and not hurts is equal to trading Hall for Larson?

    You really are not on the same page, are you?

  116. JimmyV1965 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: That’s fair.

    Also,

    David is not a sports reporter.

    He has an Oiler blog at the Journal, but he’s a city/general interest columnist.

    Most, if not all, of the local sports media *hate* when he’s mentioned among them as a sports reporter.

    Staples always makes it clear he is an Oilers fan first and foremost. The website and podcast are a passion, rather than a straight up beat. I thoroughly enjoy both. And I think they are doing a great job with their project to visually track every goal the Oilers are involved in.

  117. RonnieB says:

    JimmyV1965: Holy crap. That brings back memories. The number of people who suggested we leave Eberle exposed to Vegas was bizarre and illustrates the hate for that player. Six months later everyone is bitching about the trade. For the record. I always liked the player and disliked the trade from day one. Same thing with Strome this year when people were saying we should just left him go rather than resign him. This can be an extremely tough fan base.

    I’m with you on all points.

  118. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide:
    For The Athletic: The 2018-19 Bakersfield Condors have a chance to be the best Oilers farm team in many years

    https://theathletic.com/424482/2018/07/08/the-2018-19-bakersfield-condors-suggest-an-upturn-in-development-for-oilers-farmhands/

    Haven’t had a chance to read yet but how can Oilers fans not get excited about the steady growth of the prospect pool and the work our current manager has done in that regard. Its still a work in progress but we now will have some nice talent in the AHL (and more to come year after year for a while) and some players that can be re-called that have the ability to actually make an impact at the NHL – real prospects.

  119. theDjdj says:

    Milan Lucic is not worth 6m at this stage. But his production isn’t zero, he has some worth. Is his production worth 4m? 3.5? If you send out an asset that is going to cost you more to replace than the difference between Lucic’s current worth vs cap hit than you’re losing value.

  120. VOR says:

    JimmyV1965: Staples always makes it clear he is an Oilers fan first and foremost. The website and podcast are a passion, rather than a straight up beat. I thoroughly enjoy both. And I think they are doing a great job with their project to visually track every goal the Oilers are involved in.

    We could invert things easily and be just as accurate. No City beat reporter (well actually no other group of reporters) thinks sports reporters are real journalists. Nor do they want their names mentioned in the same breath with those of their scruffy, lazy, fanboy colleagues.

    Journalism is a gathering of the clans. All that stops open warfare breaking out is a shared hatred of the English (editors and publishers) and copious amounts of whiskey. It is highly territorial. It has always been thus, So how sports reporters feel about David Staples was pre-ordained before he or they were born. He is poaching on their turf. He must be scurvy vermin.

  121. Jethro Tull says:

    Gerta Rauss:
    ROGER: Excuse me.You’ve both been so kind to me, I baked you this pie.
    MARGE:That is so sweet.
    HOMER:Why do piemakers get all the girls?(THROWS PIE OUT PORTHOLE)
    MARGE: Why did you do that?
    HOMER:It was poisoned!
    MARGE:No it wasn’t!
    HOMER:Well, it was rhubarb.
    MARGE:No, it was berry-peach.
    HOMER: Berry-peach? That’s my favorite!
    MARGE:Please, Homer. I am so sick of this unmotivated jealousy(LOOKS OUR PORTHOLE,SEES DEAD FLOATING DOLPHIN-SCREAMS)
    MARGE:The pie was poisoned. You were right. I guess we’ve got to kill him before he kills us.
    HOMER:Well, we’d better do it quick, because he’s making scones!

    Dr: Peter, trading Hall for a dman will either increase your team’s power, or kill you.

    Peter: Increase my killing power, eh?

  122. rickithebear says:

    JimmyV1965: Staples always makes it clear he is an Oilers fan first and foremost. The website and podcast are a passion, rather than a straight up beat. I thoroughly enjoy both. And I think they are doing a great job with their project to visually track every goal the Oilers are involved in.

    Reporter/editors are a Taught to write to thier audience.
    Sports it is grade 3.

    Vor nailed the description.

    Try being a weekly journalist/editor that has won awards in the different clans areas.
    With national stories run in all areas.

    You do not understand how protective a group they are until you see full force of RCMP being brought down on individuals who utter direct death threats to your wife.

    It can be part of the job.

  123. JimmyV1965 says:

    VOR: We could invert things easily and be just as accurate. No City beat reporter (well actually no other group of reporters) thinks sports reporters are real journalists. Nor do they want their names mentioned in the same breath with those of their scruffy, lazy, fanboy colleagues.

    Journalism is a gathering of the clans. All that stops open warfare breaking out is a shared hatred of the English (editors and publishers) and copious amounts of whiskey. It is highly territorial. It has always been thus, So how sports reporters feel about David Staples was pre-ordained before he or they were born. He is poaching on their turf. He must be scurvy vermin.

    No question. Sports reporters are considered second rate by reporters from other beats. Sports writing is a pretty simple formula. The entire industry has been ravaged in recent years though so maybe this is out the window now. The quality and quantity of reporters has dropped dramatically.

    Not sure about the clans thing. And we’re probably 30 years removed from the days of editors having a bottle of booze in the drawer.

  124. Rebillled says:

    5 more years of Lucic in the prime McDavid years?

    Not gonna happen.

    Sweetner is gonna hurt. Hopefully it’s not Larsson.

  125. reddeershadows says:

    VOR,

    Very well said

  126. v4ance says:

    My personal experience is that I followed David Staples on twitter for the past 5 years due to his gig at the CoH.

    I stopped following him earlier this year because he appeared to cross a line attacking posters who were critical of him and his scoring chance tracking methods. Based on Staples’ recent twitter interactions, I feel Staples has been too thin skinned, too close minded and too eager to declare others are incorrect.

  127. Richard S.S. says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Every year as the Cap rises, so does the Floor. Then there are Teams with the small internal budget. Every Team has Free Agents that won’t be resigned. Occasionally because a younger cheaper player is available inhouse. Acquiring a 2nd/3rd Line LW for a $6.0 Million Cap Hit for four years while paying only $3.0 – $4.0 Million ($1.0 Million retainced) a year is valuable.
    A) Likely scenarios:
    1) IF Lucic has a very good year (55+ points), he’s a huge I asset and tradeable. Chances are good he stays.
    2) IF Lucic has a good year (45-ish points), he’s an asset and tradeable. He might stay.
    B) Unlikely scenarios:
    3) IF Lucic has a disappointing year (35-ish) points, he may or may not be tradeable.
    4) IF Lucic has a worse year than last year, the Oilers may need to wait until the next “compliance buyout” arising from the new NHL/NHLPA Agreement. The only other possibility is buying himout (8 years worth of dead Cap Space.

  128. v4ance says:

    Jeremy Rutherford @jprutherford

    Maroon update: Agent @BenHankinson tells The Athletic that no decision is expected tonight, and that while the Blues remain a “strong option,” there are other teams still in the mix. #stlblues

  129. OriginalPouzar says:

    Richard S.S.:
    OriginalPouzar,

    Every year as the Cap rises, so does the Floor.Then there are Team with the small internal budget.Every Team has Free Agent that won’t be resigned. Occasionally because a younger cheaper player is available inhouse.Acquiring a 2nd/3rd Line LW for a $6.0 Million Cap Hit for four years while paying only $3.0 – $4.0 Million ($1.0 Million retained) a year is valuable.

    I understand the concept, I don’t agree that that a team taking on a crap contract because the cap hit is higher that real dollars is more than a rare occurrence.

    We just had a material increase in the cap (including the floor) yet there aren’t really any teams struggling to meet the cap floor. Sure, there may be a few in the future, here and there, but the chances that a deal is worked out with such a team for Lucic and the Lucic agrees to go to this internal budget team, seems minuscule.

    I believe the premise is overblown.

  130. OriginalPouzar says:

    v4ance:
    Jeremy Rutherford @jprutherford

    Maroon update: Agent @BenHankinson tells The Athletic that no decision is expected tonight, and that while the Blues remain a “strong option,” there are other teams still in the mix. #stlblues

    The Blues’ cap situation mirrors the Oilers – $5M in cap space with the need to sign an RFA top 4 d-man.

  131. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Your mother-in-law Helen is good people LT: There is so much richness in your life with the people you hold so dear and are so special: thanks for sharing!

  132. Melvis says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Your mother-in-law Helen is good people LT: There is so much richness in your life with the people you hold so dear and are so special: thanks for sharing!

    Good of you to mention that. I was thinking about it earlier today. I’m way too selfish about how I spend my time to even consider such a possibility

    Just adopting a cat (properly looked after) – sucks up way more time, space and monies than most people remotely consider.

  133. Melvis says:

    Mr. Sheps:

    Now thoroughly addled with Lucic – and/or Lucic/Maroon…when in August are you planning to be in Eddy?

  134. Melvis says:

    “Darcy, has it occurred to you there’s this rusty old Dodge van out front for four days now?

    “Errr, have you noticed there’s a greasy pizza box taped to the window…and something scrawled on it…Do Not Disturb – Melvis”.

    “I don’t care. Would you please arrange to have it towed away?”

    “Ok, ok. Have you noticed any weird smells coming off it?

    “Dammit Darcy, the sooner the better. And while I’m at it, could you please spend a little less time on that stupid blog of yours and the riff raff you indulge over there?”

  135. Melvis says:

    Here’s an off piste question. Baseball is somewha t redolent with switch hitters. Or used to be. I haven’t scoured the details but I suspect some actually sported better OBP at times batting “wrong handed”. ( I’m primarily right handed, but I tend toward a lot of left handedness. Batting, hockey, golf, even drawing the figure, etc. Shooting… I hold the rifle right and scope across, left eyed. )

    Apparently there are more lefty golfers in Canada per capita than any other country in the world.

    Here’s the question. Anybody ever heard of a switch hitting hockey player? A stack of left and right sticks behind the bench?

  136. Pescador says:

    Melvis:
    Here’s an off piste question. Baseball is somewha t redolent with switch hitters. Or used to be. I haven’t scoured the details but I suspect some actually sportedbetter OBP at timesbatting “wrong handed”. ( I’m primarily right handed, but I tend toward a lot of left handedness. Batting, hockey, golf, even drawing the figure, etc. Shooting… I hold the rifle right and scope across, left eyed. )

    Apparently there are more lefty golfers in Canada per capita than any other country in the world.

    Here’s the question. Anybody ever heard of a switch hitting hockey player? A stack ofleft and right sticks behind the bench?

    Let’s start a war shall we?
    Swinging a bat is far easier then shooting a hockey stick……
    So I’m a gunna sa Non,
    But but but I would add,
    Hitting a Valenzuela (El toro) Screwball or a Ricky Vaughn (Wild Thing) Speedball
    Can’t possibly be as easy as it looks

  137. colieo_87 says:

    Whoop whoop finally can read the comments its been a rough week

  138. Melvis says:

    Pescador,

    The only war I’m gonna start is how my comment looks prepost…and whatever fuckin happens after the fact. I’m not actually drunk all the fuckin time.

    It’s high time for a new supplier, given the horseshit I have to go through just to get on this site in the am. And yes, I’m logged in. Even that simple act has become a pain in the butt. No log in at the top of yesterday’s thread. Scroll to bottom. Hit login . Scroll to top. Hit the masthead periodically after 9:00 am for evidence of current thread.

    Oh there it is…67 comments in. By then, I’ve veared off for someting that makes sense. One click entry. It’s a bit too much like “Oilers”.

    It’s a fast world. Vegas says so.

  139. LadiesloveSmid says:

    v4ance:
    Jeremy Rutherford @jprutherford

    Maroon update: Agent @BenHankinson tells The Athletic that no decision is expected tonight, and that while the Blues remain a “strong option,” there are other teams still in the mix. #stlblues

    Now I’m seeing word of $1.7M 1 year deal with STL being announced soon.

    Wish EDM could’ve gotten him at that dollar instead of say, Caggiula. Hard to not like his decision, gets to live in the same city as his little boy Anthony. Hope for the best for Patty.

  140. Scungilli Slushy says:

    The world beating VGK and their unheralded braintrust signed Reaves, he of a career high 13 pts, to 2.775M at 31 YO.

    I’d call that cap more dead than Lucic’s who could very possibly quadruple Reaves’ production and provide the same level of threat.

    It also shows the value that player type still holds for many GM’s, remember they are the new hockey stats gurus those kinnigets.

  141. Scungilli Slushy says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Now I’m seeing word of $1.7M 1 year deal with STL being announced soon.

    Wish EDM could’ve gotten him at that dollar instead of say, Caggiula. Hard to not like his decision, gets to live in the same city as his little boy Anthony. Hope for the best for Patty.

    I hope he gets more money and term, so he’s can choose to not have to worry down the road. So many players not as good who didn’t battle as long as him have been paid so much more.

  142. Melvis says:

    Pescador: Let’s start a war shall we?
    Swinging a bat is far easier then shooting a hockey stick……
    So I’m a gunna sa Non,
    But but but I would add,
    Hitting a Valenzuela (El toro) Screwball or a Ricky Vaughn (Wild Thing) Speedball
    Can’t possibly be as easy as it looks

    Just wondering. Just shovelling out the damn driveway right handed when it’s called for is
    a serious pain in the butt. It’s either that, or throw 10 feet instead of two. And don’t tell me to buy a ” righty snowblower’.

  143. Richard S.S. says:

    1) in 2015, Peter Chiarelli was stepping into the world’s best situation, Connor McDavid, and the world’s worst situation, the cluster-f that was the Oilers. He knew what the Oilers’ big needs were, but he had to trust the cluster-f people still in power with the Oilers.
    1a) It’s apparent the Oilers did not have anything current/detailed on Griffin Reinhart. It’s possible Peter drafts differently with that information.

    2) Presently Peter Chiarelli has his people on the job, people he trusts. Just not all the fans trust him. Too bad, they must long for the return of decades of darkness.

  144. OriginalPouzar says:

    Well, yes, I would have taken Maroon back at 1 X $1.7M.

  145. Richard S.S. says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    That’s talking about next year. Too bad, liked your rant. More applicable this year as Lucic has five years left and costs a bit more

  146. Melvis says:

    Scungilli Slushy,

    Yeah, and then Reaves turns into another Marchessault. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit. lol

  147. Jaxon says:

    Wow, was just looking at McDavid’s season and calculated that he scored at a 134 point pace in his final 33 games (Feb. 1st onward). Wow. Looking forward to next season.

  148. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Melvis:
    Scungilli Slushy,

    Yeah, and then Reaves turns into another Marchessault. Wouldn’t surprise me a bit. lol

    That would be something. You never know with those guys.

  149. Ryan says:

    Off topic…

    Tyler Dellow has an interesting writing style in that it always makes you feel akin to wielding a ginsu 2000 cutting knife.

    Step 1. Dellow introduces a superbly salient hockey analytics question. You stop. You reflect. Your languid mind feels a sense of exhaustion contemplating this conundrum. You capitulate.

    Step 2. You return to reading the article. CHOP! Dellow gives you the answer. Full scale! Holy bleep now I feel like a bleeping genius. That was so easy. Wait.

    Step 3. Regret. Why can’t I have a Dellowesque answer to all life’s questions.

    Rambling…

    Love this Dellow quote:

    “If you look at this closely, you can see how the players who are able to generate GF/60 above the 90th percentile are just generating great gobs of value. The Oilers have scored 3.57 GF/60 over the past two years with Connor McDavid on the ice, 0.56 GF/60 above the 90th percentile. It’s like the difference between the 90th percentile and the 40th percentile…”

    https://theathletic.com/421299/2018/07/06/dellow-john-tavares-tyler-bozak-and-how-non-elite-players-can-put-up-elite-numbers-with-elite-players/

  150. rickithebear says:

    theDjdj:
    Milan Lucic is not worth 6m at this stage. But his production isn’t zero, he has some worth. Is his production worth 4m? 3.5? If you send out an asset that is going to cost you more to replace than the difference between Lucic’s current worth vs cap hit than you’re losing value.

    I presented this position a couple weeks ago.

    The numbers have changed post UFA.
    But goals and unit diff by salary.
    6M fwd 25g +11
    5.5M fwd 23g +9
    5.0M fwd 21g +7
    4.5M fwd 19g +5

  151. Melvis says:

    Richard S.S.: Presently Peter Chiarelli has his people on the job, people he trusts.

    You mean the Machiavelli who canned 3 AC’s for a new bunch of consiglieres pushing the HD for different results because he (Peter) was too chickenshit to actually whack him?

    Given the potential fallout? Give me a break.

    I’ll be pushing up daisies before this team wins another cup.

  152. rickithebear says:

    27g from maroon @ 1.7
    Or
    27g from Rattie at .8

    Maroon running MCd – Drai
    Or
    Rattie running for RNH – MCD.

    I will take 3 years of RNH as a 6M steal.
    And the pair zooming the next 1M winger in line.

  153. Jethro Tull says:

    Ryan:
    Off topic…

    Tyler Dellow has an interesting writing style in that it always makes you feel akin to wielding a ginsu 2000 cutting knife.

    Step 1. Dellow introduces a superbly salient hockey analytics question. You stop. You reflect. Your languid mind feels a sense of exhaustion contemplating this conundrum. You capitulate.

    Step 2. You return to reading the article. CHOP! Dellow gives you the answer. Full scale! Holy bleep now I feel like a bleeping genius. That was so easy. Wait.

    Step 3. Regret. Why can’t I have a Dellowesque answer to all life’s questions.

    Rambling…

    Love this Dellow quote:

    “If you look at this closely, you can see how the players who are able to generate GF/60 above the 90th percentile are just generating great gobs of value. The Oilers have scored 3.57 GF/60 over the past two years with Connor McDavid on the ice, 0.56 GF/60 above the 90th percentile. It’s like the difference between the 90th percentile and the 40th percentile…”

    https://theathletic.com/421299/2018/07/06/dellow-john-tavares-tyler-bozak-and-how-non-elite-players-can-put-up-elite-numbers-with-elite-players/

    Sooooo, the point is even shitty players look good playing with the world’s best player?

    Even Bylsma won a cup with Crosby.

  154. Melvis says:

    I type HC and end up with HD. Is there an ad on this blog for Head Doctors, or something?

  155. theDjdj says:

    For those clever enough to subscribe to The Athletic, I just stumbled across a terrific article about John Cooper and Patrick Maroon kickstarting eachothers NHL careers together in a backwater Tier II hockey team on the border of Texas and Arkansas https://theathletic.com/316415/2018/04/16/how-texarkana-launched-jon-cooper-and-patrick-maroon-to-the-nhl/

    Really is fascinating how far some of these NHL players stray from the bright lights but through sheer will force their way into the League. My admiration for Maroon has grown. And Cooper too actually, who constantly had to justify his performance to the Old Boys Club (including, interestingly, Kevin Lowe)

  156. Pescador says:

    colieo_87:
    Whoop whoop finally can read the comments its been a rough week

    Hope you were dying to get caught up on the ‘Staples vs Seravelli’ pissing contest,
    And all of the subsequent Hot takes on whose right & whose wrong

  157. Melvis says:

    Pescador: Hope you were dying to get caught up on the ‘Staples vs Seravelli’ pissing contest,
    And all of the subsequent Hot takes on whose right & whose wrong

    Summertime Blues Pescador. Summertime Blues. Explains everything.

  158. Ancient Oilers Fan says:

    Melvis:
    Here’s an off piste question. Baseball is somewha t redolent with switch hitters. Or used to be. I haven’t scoured the details but I suspect some actually sportedbetter OBP at timesbatting “wrong handed”. ( I’m primarily right handed, but I tend toward a lot of left handedness. Batting, hockey, golf, even drawing the figure, etc. Shooting… I hold the rifle right and scope across, left eyed. )

    Apparently there are more lefty golfers in Canada per capita than any other country in the world.

    Here’s the question. Anybody ever heard of a switch hitting hockey player? A stack ofleft and right sticks behind the bench?

    Gordie Howe was your switch hitting hockey player. He would change the angle of his shot by changing hands/handedness, whatever. Goalie suddenly way out of position. I believe it is mentioned on his Wikipedia page.

  159. Melvis says:

    Ancient Oilers Fan,

    Thanks for that.

  160. JimmyV1965 says:

    LadiesloveSmid: Now I’m seeing word of $1.7M 1 year deal with STL being announced soon.

    Wish EDM could’ve gotten him at that dollar instead of say, Caggiula. Hard to not like his decision, gets to live in the same city as his little boy Anthony. Hope for the best for Patty.

    If Maroon signs for 1.7 for one year, he’s being taken advantage of. That’s not a hometown discount. It’s a fleecing. The Blues just signed Perron for four years at 4. He might be better, but the margin aint that great. We just signed Reider for one year at 2. It’s admirable that he wants to be close to his son that much, but wow that’s a hell of a deal for the Blues.

  161. digger50 says:

    v4ance:
    Jeremy Rutherford @jprutherford

    Maroon update: Agent @BenHankinson tells The Athletic that no decision is expected tonight, and that while the Blues remain a “strong option,” there are other teams still in the mix. #stlblues

    Thank you for the update.

    So my first thoughts were that he was waiting for something to come in. A shoe to drop. Teams vying for his services.

    Then 1 year at 1.75????

    My lord, Peter needs to grab that in a heartbeat. That’s a gift. Fills a top six position with a 20 goal scorer for that price?

    If this turns out to be true and he goes to St Lous for that, it’s a big miss by the Oil.

  162. Atc-Nate says:

    Melvis,

    My buddy just told me the story of his kid… he put him in baseball for a year and was frustrated. Considering he (the buddy) was a solid ball player, he figured the genetics should pass on. Unfortunately, by his observation, his son “throws like a girl”.

    Anyhow, he’s out in the back yard (he has about 3 acres) and spots his son grab a ball (no glove on) and hurl it… with his left hand… all the way across the lawn. Shoulda bought him a lefty glove.

  163. Wilde says:

    JimmyV1965,

    digger50,

    I’m strong on the Blues this year as a team, but now I actually hope they do well. They have great stories:

    – Robby Fabbri coming back from a heartbreaking training camp injury that put him out for the season

    – Maroon finally being close to his son

    – O’Reilly gets a second chance after losing his passion for the game in Buffalo

    – Armstrong bolsters his roster after giving them the veto of confidence at the deadline, giving them no excuses not to make the playoffs

  164. Melvis says:

    Atc-Nate,

    I’m finding all of this quite fascinating. I was just watching Simon Phillips a minute ago. A natural lefty drummer using a trad setup, and moving across the kit leading with his right hand….suggesting a considerable amount of ambidexterity.

    Even more than usual in good drummers, who are capable of four limb independence in simultaneously different time signatures. For an example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw8RvIG3FFw&frags=pl%2Cwn

  165. JimmyV1965 says:

    Wilde:
    JimmyV1965,

    digger50,

    I’m strong on the Blues this year as a team, but now I actually hope they do well. They have great stories:

    – Robby Fabbri coming back from a heartbreaking training camp injury that put him out for the season

    – Maroon finally being close to his son

    – O’Reilly gets a second chance after losing his passion for the game in Buffalo

    – Armstrong bolsters his roster after giving them the veto of confidence at the deadline, giving them no excuses not to make the playoffs

    Their one weakness is goaltending. And it could be a fatal flaw. Not sure if Armstrong has done enough to address the issue. Allen is like Talbot. He might be great, but he might crap the bed. Interesting question I just thought of. Who’s better at backup? Koskinnen or Johnson. I think Koskinnen has higher upside, but…

  166. Melvis says:

    Atc-Nate,

    Also, for a righty, my dad threw like a girl right handed. Until he took me out behind the barn. He turned out pretty handy with three feet of horse bridle in his left.

  167. VOR says:

    Bill Durnan, if memory serves, played goal with specialized gloves that allowed him to hold the stick in either hand. I think I remember seeing film.

    Nikolaj Ehlers people tell me is ambidextrous. I have no idea if he switches in game.

  168. Wilde says:

    JimmyV1965: Their one weakness is goaltending. And it could be a fatal flaw. Not sure if Armstrong has done enough to address the issue. Allen is like Talbot. He might be great, but he might crap the bed. Interesting question I just thought of. Who’s better at backup? Koskinnen or Johnson. I think Koskinnen has higher upside, but…

    I have zero confidence in my ability to evaluate goaltenders and little more in my ability to evaluate defense corps, but here’s the deal with St. Louis.

    They were a top-5 in all shots/chances against metrics 5v5, same with goals against per 60.

    (except regular scoring chances against where they were 11th, but 4th in high danger ones, so.)

    So just by looking at what they give up, it’s not much.

    I’m much more comfortable evaluating forwards and forward deployments, and here’s how I’d have theirs:

    Schwartz – Schenn – Tarasenko

    No brainer. Disgusting over three-and-a-half goal per 60 line with a sustainable(for a top line) shooting percentage of 9.22. Dominates possession, gets fed all the OZS’s and has the possibility of being even more deadly there this year.

    Thomas – O’Reilly – Perron

    Whenever you feed a line offensive zone starts, someone has to take the DZS. I prefer a skilled line to do this over the archaic grinder line that’s asking to get scored on in the more hack-free fast paced NHL. O’Reilly’s used to this, drives possession through tough deployment. Perron on RW is a switch that’s been made since he changed up his game to being a passer(he talked to the Athletic about this mid-season) and he’s also nasty to play against. Rounding out the line you have the future tough minutes centre learning from O’Reilly. I’d have him alternating faceoffs with O’Reilly based on strong-sidedness(right vs left handed), the new face-off rules are much less veteran-slanted than before.

    Fabbri – Steen – Bozak

    The underrated part of putting Thomas at 2LW is you bump Steen down. Steen’s offensive declination has hit the three-season-sample marker, posting 1.57/60, 1.57/60, then 1.39/60. This is also another double centre line that can alternate on faceoffs. Bozak can still score, you basically hope that him and Fabbri can put the finishes touches on scoring plays here.

    The fourth line I don’t care about, but I’d definitely not use Thorburn and Jaskin is a sure bet.

    I’d have to dig more on their powerplay to find the problem there. Tarasenko should be perennially in the top 10 in powerplay goals. Their powerplay was second worst, next to you-know-who.

    If they can figure out a configuration like this or better, I see them going far. They could not score last year. They need to get about a fifth of a goal extra an hour, and they’re a lock for the playoffs. Would be more fun to watch, too.

  169. Melvis says:

    VOR,

    I catch left, throw right. Except when faced with playing goal in street or rec hockey. I have problems deciding whether to hold stick right or left. I’m often “warding off” stick left…and catching right. The stronger right arm, in this scenario, feels totally disconnected from my body. Therefore, useless with a stick in it, given the task at hand.

    I’ve come acrooss some anecdotal evidence suggesting experienced Spitfire or P-51 pilots discovered greener ME 109 pilots pushed left stick and rudder automatically all too often. It cost them their lives.

    Also the plane itself was quirky that way. Those who fought the engineering and personal tendency and pulled to the right more often than not tended to be more successful.

  170. v4ance says:

    Lou Korac @lkorac10

    Here’s what I got: told that Patrick Maroon to #stlblues has been finalized, could be announced Monday & expected to be for one-year, $1.7 million & that Blues and Maroon will entertain a contract extension when first allowed in January. Looks like Oakville native is coming home.

    I don’t know this twitter account but he’s apparently an NHL.com beat writer for St. Louis

  171. OriginalPouzar says:

    v4ance:
    Lou Korac @lkorac10


    Here’s what I got: told that Patrick Maroon to #stlblues has been finalized, could be announced Monday & expected to be for one-year, $1.7 million & that Blues and Maroon will entertain a contract extension when first allowed in January. Looks like Oakville native is coming home.

    I don’t know this twitter account but he’s apparently an NHL.com beat writer for St. Louis

    Maroon’s brother took to twitter after the fact to deny the information but who knows.

  172. Professor Q says:

    VOR:
    Bill Durnan, if memory serves, played goal with specialized gloves that allowed him to hold the stick in either hand. I think I remember seeing film.

    Nikolaj Ehlers people tell me is ambidextrous. I have no idea if he switches in game.

    Hasn’t there only been one or two ambidextrous players to have switched in game and scored a goal both ways?

    It was a player lesser named than Howe, for sure, but can’t recall their name. Howe only did it during a practice and got a good sound bite out of it. Esposito almost scored with his off-hand stick. Easier for those players and goalies where the stick blade was flat and offered that ability (Crosby for the first few years).

    Roloson and Turco, etc.

    I used to practice with both handed sticks and throwing/dribbling/kicking balls with the off hand/foot, just because and because I saw in some research when I was younger that you can train your brain and hand to be ambidextrous, and it would help your brain function better (differently?).

  173. ArmchairGM says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Adding a “B” prospect to move Lucic is a no-brainer imo.

    The cap space he uses up could be used for a better player who moves the needle and that’s what EDM needs right now.

    There are 5 (5!!) years left on that contract.

    Even if Lucic rebounds to 50pts that is not worth $6MM and it will get worse as time goes by.

    Admit the mistake, move on and do as little damage as possible extracting yourself from the situation.

    Who would you use that cap space on though? Maroon (rumored to be signing with St Louis) is the only UFA that had more points than Lucic last year – a grand total of 6 more points. Is that 6 points worth a B prospect, assuming that a B prospect gets it done?

  174. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I disagree with your opinion (not fact) that I am off-base.

    The response was pretentious and condescending (and therefore unnecessary and unprofessional).

    The responses to the response have been worse.

    Its childish and all involved in the social media attacks are embarrass and should stop.

    The response by Frank was factual.

  175. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    JimmyV1965: Staples always makes it clear he is an Oilers fan first and foremost. The website and podcast are a passion, rather than a straight up beat. I thoroughly enjoy both. And I think they are doing a great job with their project to visually track every goal the Oilers are involved in.

    I agree.

    People characterizing him as an Oilers reporter are incorrect

  176. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Wilde,

    I think Steen is going to play wing with ROR vs toughs and Bozak will center kids on a soft 3rds. Thomas and Fabbri probably

  177. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: The response by Frank was factual.

    Doesn’t/didn’t make not unnecessary, pretentious. condescending and unprofessional.

    Again, the continued vitriol towards Serevelli is childish, unnecessary and embarrassing.

    This whole “fight” is ridiculous and I’m losing respect for many in the community the longer it continues (no, not Frank, he made one response and that was it).

  178. Wilde says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Wilde,

    I think Steen is going to play wing with ROR vs toughs and Bozak will center kids on a soft 3rds. Thomas and Fabbri probably

    That’s what’ll happen, over the 3 year cooling period of his offence he hasn’t seen any TOI reduction. Even after the coaching change(February) he played top six ice-time steady.

    I wouldn’t do it though. I think you can put him in the Matt Tkachuk spot and roll it. He has junior offense in the neighbourhood, the two-way reputation and the two veterans are good enough. O’Reilly being the Backlund.

    Obviously camp matters, but the Blues seem to like Thomas enough(cited untouchable in the trade rumours) so given Armstrong doesn’t get fully McLellan’d I don’t think entirely out of the realm of possibility.

  179. stephen sheps says:

    Melvis,

    Sorry for the late reply. Was offline last night.

    Anyhoo, I’m back the last 9 days of August.

    Drop me a line at stephensheps(at)gmail(dot)com

  180. stephen sheps says:

    Melvis: I catch left, throw right. Except when faced with playing goal in street or rec hockey. I have problems deciding whether to hold stick right or left. I’m often “warding off” stick left…and catching right. The stronger right arm, in this scenario, feels totally disconnected from my body. Therefore, useless with a stick in it, given the task at hand.

    I’m much the same. While I’m right hand dominant in so far as I write (in English) with my right hand and throw right playing baseball or football, in hockey I shot left, but when I played in goal I was a right hand catcher, I write (well, wrote – it’s been years) in Hebrew left handed and play guitar left.

    Being mostly but not completely ambidextrous is weird.

  181. jp says:

    ArmchairGM: Who would you use that cap space on though? Maroon (rumored to be signing with St Louis) is the only UFA that had more points than Lucic last year – a grand total of 6 more points. Is that 6 points worth a B prospect, assuming that a B prospect gets it done?

    Fair that there aren’t really any FA options out there now, but it still allows for a longer term Nurse deal for instance, or bringing in salary via trade.

    The issue is the remainder of the contract. As WG said, 5 (5!!!) more years. Basically every long term UFA deal will underpay at the beginning and overpay at the end (at least in cap hit).

    The Oilers just got the best 2 years of the Lucic deal (!!), no one ever expected years 5-7 of that deal to be value (not Chiarelli, maybe not even Lucic).

    You’ve got to get out from under that if you possibly can. It could be Puljujarvi or Yamamoto’s extensions, (re)signing a goalie next summer, bringing in Skinner. Plus the risk of having to protect him in the expansion draft. The possibilities are scary.

    I agree with WG that a “B” prospect to move him is a no-brainer. Even if there aren’t any obvious candidates in UFA left.

  182. Melvis says:

    stephen sheps,

    Thanks. I’m just trying to plan ahead a bit. I received an email on Sat. suggesting a possible open date for a gallery show sooner than later. Meaning I might have to hunker down and work my tail off through August and the next couple of months.

    I’ve copied the email so you can delete if so wished.

  183. ArmchairGM says:

    jp: Fair that there aren’t really any FA options out there now, but it still allows for a longer term Nurse deal for instance, or bringing in salary via trade.

    The issue is the remainder of the contract. As WG said, 5 (5!!!) more years. Basically every long term UFA deal will underpay at the beginning and overpay at the end (at least in cap hit).

    The Oilers just got the best 2 years of the Lucic deal (!!), no one ever expected years 5-7 of that deal to be value (not Chiarelli, maybe not even Lucic).

    You’ve got to get out from under that if you possibly can. It could be Puljujarvi or Yamamoto’s extensions, (re)signing a goalie next summer, bringing in Skinner. Plus the risk of having to protect him in the expansion draft. The possibilities are scary.

    I agree with WG that a “B” prospect to move him is a no-brainer. Even if there aren’t any obvious candidates in UFA left.

    I’m not at all sure a B prospect gets it done though.

  184. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Wilde: That’s what’ll happen, over the 3 year cooling period of his offence he hasn’t seen any TOI reduction. Even after the coaching change(February) he played top six ice-time steady.

    I wouldn’t do it though. I think you can put him in the Matt Tkachuk spot and roll it. He has junior offense in the neighbourhood, the two-way reputation and the two veterans are good enough. O’Reilly being the Backlund.

    Obviously camp matters, but the Blues seem to like Thomas enough(cited untouchable in the trade rumours) so given Armstrong doesn’t get fully McLellan’d I don’t think entirely out of the realm of possibility.

    This is more driven by “they just paid $5MM for Bozak, he’s going to play C” and then the wingers just fall in line

  185. jp says:

    ArmchairGM: I’m not at all sure a B prospect gets it done though.

    Well sure, that’s a different issue, and valid. But if a B prospect/pick is enough to get a Lucic deal done, you have to do it.

  186. Atc-Nate says:

    Melvis,

    That is all very interesting stuff. I’ve never heard of partial ambidextrous people. I do find it unique that I golf right, throw right and shoot left, but always thought that was fairly normal based on dominant hand positioning.

    However I have a friend, throws right, golfs left and shoots left. It’s a bit strange. I’d suggest that any NHLers who happen to be ambidextrous probably keep it to their preferred shooting hand as switching up might throw your linemates off…. ??

    An NHL shooter might be a great person to be ambidextrous, take Ovi for example. They get used to defending the left circle and he swaps sticks and goes to the right. How do you defend both. Haha.

  187. Diamond Dick says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    Woodguy v2.0: The response by Frank was factual.

    Doesn’t/didn’t make not unnecessary, pretentious. condescending and unprofessional.

    Again, the continued vitriol towards Serevelli is childish, unnecessary and embarrassing.

    This whole “fight” is ridiculous and I’m losing respect for many in the community the longer it continues (no, not Frank, he made one response and that was it).

    so let it go for crying out loud

  188. Jaxon says:

    Melvis,

    https://youtu.be/DUrtlfuJVgA

    Ehlers switches hands mid-play.

    Myself. I shoot left in hockey, bat right, throw right and catch left in baseball, catch left as a goalie, serve right in volleyball and racket sports, write right, brush teeth left, golf swing right but putt left.

    My dad (from Saskatchewan and loved Howe) always wanted me to practice left and right in hockey but I never would.

  189. Bag of Pucks says:

    If I’m Chiarelli, I’m investigating the market for Lucic now but am likely holding until the 20 G mark of the season to trade him.

    At that point, you’ll know what return to form (if any) has come from Milan, and you’ll also have a better sense for roster needs based on the performance of a number of players who need fresh evaluation following regressive seasons last year.

    It also gives you time to see if the likes of Yamamoto, Puli, Benson or Aberg demonstrate legitimate traction as Top 6 F options.

    Most players and managers in this situation will agree that the player needs to improve his play in the short-term to make himself more marketable as a trade asset. IMO, we’ll know 3 games in. If Lucic is playing like a miserable SOB like he did in his prime, we may have a viable trade chip. If he’s the more gentle bear we saw last year, we’re likely looking at a sweetener needed to dump the contract.

    Everyone points to Lucic’s hit totals as evidence that he’s not lost his taste for the rough stuff. That only tells part of the story imo. This is a player that needs to fight AND play past the whistle to be effective. He can’t coast on reputation.

  190. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    Melvis:
    stephen sheps,

    Thanks. I’m just trying to plan ahead a bit. I received an email on Sat. suggesting a possible open date for a gallery show sooner than later. Meaning I might have to hunker down and work my tail off through August and the next couple of months.

    I’ve copied the email so you can delete if so wished.

    – Where do I find out more information about your vernissage Melvis?

    – Play golf right, shoot left, tennis left, throw right. Play baseball about 4 times a year and can never figure out which side to hit from (LT loved the switch-hitters: I’m the White Tim Raines with no pop speed or average) Untill I was 6 I switched hands when I was writing. Rather than cross-over I’d start with left hand, then switch to right. Stupid teacher would slap my wrist when I did the cross-over: so I write left-handed.

  191. rickithebear says:

    Rogers communication Owns 37.5% of MLSE.
    Bell Canada owns 37.5% of MLSE.
    TML are the worst team in sports history and continue to be.
    0% nhl pennant (Conf) or cup championship.
    2 champions and 29 losing orgs each year.
    Yet the narrative is attack on oilers org.
    With a pennant in 05-06.

    LT and Frank work with the TML ownership group.
    Luckily LT’s oiler blood holds true.

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