Consigliere

The Edmonton Oilers hired Keith Gretzky on August 2, 2016. The first time I heard anything about it came from my friend Guy Flaming the afternoon before:

In the year+ Peter Chiarelli worked for the Oilers without Gretzky, his major moves were trading for Cam Talbot, Griffin Reinhart, Adam Larsson, plus signing Andrej Sekera and Milan Lucic. Has Keith Gretzky helped settle Peter Chiarelli, or did Chiarelli run out of money and assets?

THE ATHLETIC!

Give The Athletic as a gift or get it yourself and join the fun! Offer is here, less than $4 a month! I find myself reading both the hockey (Willis, Dellow, Pronman, et cetera) and the baseball coverage a lot, it’s a pure pleasure to visit. We’ll sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge.

KEITH GRETZKY

  • On the draft:When you have the job, it’s your list. When we put our list together, all the scouts have worked all year. They’ve gone to 200 games in a year, if a player is on our list it’s because we want him, nobody else.”

2017 Draft

2018 Draft

More than previous Oilers drafts, the two Gretzky seasons aren’t spending any time taking major risks. Inside the first three rounds of these two drafts, there are zero risk selections using the McKenzie bible. None!

One other item: The early picks are all skill picks. Edmonton is drafting from a far better list now than in previous seasons. What does that mean? A far better chance of posting a strong draft. The best draft of this decade was 2011, two first rounders (Nuge, Klefbom) plus a later-round gem (Tobias Rieder).

The Chiarelli-Gretzky free agent signings

  • 2017: Ty Rattie, Jussi Jokinen, Yohann Auvitu
  • 2018: Tobias Rieder, Kyle Brodziak, Kevin Gravel, Mikko Koskinen

Smaller signings, but astute additions even if they didn’t work out. A ufa signing of $1 million can be buried if things go sideways. The Oilers weren’t big players in free agency before the cap era and haven’t learned how to use it properly now that they can play in the deep end of the pool. Luck, necessity or Gretzky? Which is it?

The Chiarelli-Gretzky trades

  • Brandon Davidson for David Desharnais
  • Jordan Eberle for Ryan Strome
  • Jussi Jokinen for Mike Cammalleri
  • Mark Letestu for Pontus Aberg
  • Patrick Maroon for pick used on Cooper Marody

Some trades in this group were viewed as negative, my own take is that dealing Davidson for Desharnais at the deadline for playoff help is exactly what you want from the general manager.

The Eberle trade is the one I have an issue with, because Edmonton didn’t have (and still doesn’t have) a replacement talent for the hole created. I get the idea of trading two seasons of Eberle for what will probably be five or more seasons of Strome, but another shoe had to drop (signing Thomas Vanek, etc).

The other three trades look like good bets to me, expiring deals for something possibly useful either in-season or in the years to come.

THE FUTURE

I’m not one of those observers of the team who is actively agitating for the replacement of general manager or coach. I’m also not one of those people who obsess over past trades, although it is important to recognize the transactions that got us here and the author of those moves.

I do think it’s fair to suggest 2019-20 is not promised to either Peter Chiarelli or Todd McLellan. That isn’t breaking news, suspect both men are aware of their situations. Should ownership decide to move on from Peter Chiarelli, I think Keith Gretzky would be a prominent candidate.

From what we can tell about his work, and of course it’s impossible to do a thorough assessment from the outside, Gretzky appears to be a good judge of talent on and off the ice. We’ll discuss the coaching situation in the coming days.

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137 Responses to "Consigliere"

  1. jtblack says:

    Loving that Ryan Mcleod pick more and more

    It will be his 4th year of junior, so the expectation will be “Dominance” all around (5×5, PK, PP).

    Anybody know if his team is Good, Avg or bad?

    2017 Draft could see 3+ NHLers.

    Like both drafts. Now lets repeat the skill drafting the next 2 years and Win a few Cups 🙂

  2. Bryan says:

    The last two drafts have definitely shown a more promising approach. It is a crap shoot for sure but by consistently targeting skill that is based on reliable criteria then the odds of finding gems later in the draft will increase. Simply using the Mackenzie or Lowetide list for the first two rounds would work well I am sure but in the later rounds I believe that the scouts job becomes more important in learning a little more about these young men’s character. Late round picks face a long road and slim chance of success so a strong work ethic and love of the game are important traits as well as skill. A late round pick that succeeds is like manna from heaven so any advantage that can be gained in making these picks is huge.

  3. RISTOOOOO SILTANEN!!!! says:

    I particularly enjoy your summaries of the small bets and management of draft risk. Incremental moves that lead to more positive arrows over time. It would warm the cockles of my heart to see a bigger bet turn out well.

    oh…

    Day five of “Kicks” stuck in my head. Can’t shake it and a suitable replacement has not been found to dislodge it. What’s worse it’s like skipping vinyl…it doesn’t even get to the next line, just a repeat of the first. Curse you!!

  4. DeerMachine11 says:

    Long time lurker, first time poster! Huge fan of the McLoed pick as well JT. Gone are the days of us convincing ourselves one day Moroz or Musil could be good players. The Chiarelli regime is not without its warts (don’t ask me about the Hall trade after 2 sips of malt). But seeing the organization give a damn about it’s selections after the first round is very exciting to me. The McDavid oilers will need value contracts for the next 8-15 years. We need to start drafting them. And I believe Pete and KG are off to a great start.

  5. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oh, man, that 2017 draft is looking killer so far. Miles to go but:

    – 5 up arrows (Skinner, Samorukov, Safin, Maksimov, Kemp
    – 1 down arrow (Brindamour)
    – 1 even arrow (Yamamoto)

    By “up arrow”, I mean that the players outperformed draft position/expectation in their draft plus 1 years (at least in my mind).

    I’m not down on Yamamoto, my “even arrow” is because his draft plus 1 season was all over the place, up and down. I “expected” him to tear up the WHL and star at the World Juniors. At the end of the day, he did finish top 10 in PPG in the WHL but it was inconsistent – it took him almost two months to get going and his finish was predicated on a crazy heater post World Juniors. He also didn’t “dominate” at the World Juniors. Injuries were an issue for parts and in the playoffs. Love the player still – just not quite the consistent season I was hoping for.

  6. OriginalPouzar says:

    Speaking of prospects and the 2017 and 2018 drafts, looking forward to the Summer Showcase from red-hot Kamloops.

    Bouchard, McLeon, Rodrigue, Kemp.

    Obviously Bouchard is a lock is not in the NHL – captain?

    What are McLeod’s chances?

    The US is stacked with high end talent (Fabaree, Hughes, Whalstrom, Wilde) but Kemp was the last cut last year so maybe he makes it this year?

    Rodrigue is a distant bell this year I think but maybe has the inside line on the starters position next year?

  7. OriginalPouzar says:

    As far as slotting Bouchard in when he plays, I think the standard lineup should be:

    Klefbom/Larsson
    Nurse/Benning
    Sekera/Russell

    Gravel/Bouchard

    When Bouchard plays:

    Klefbom/Larsson
    Nurse/Bennign
    Sekera/Bouchard

    Russell/Gravel

    Will the coaching staff take Russell out of the lineup? I guess this is also a function of how Benning is doing at 2RD and how Sekera and Russell are playing.

    I know at times last year the coaching staff did cut Russell’s even strength and PK minutes.

  8. OriginalPouzar says:

    I think you are missing the Koskinen free agent signing.

    Like the bet on the player, still don’t understand the contract (and don’t like it at all – walking away WAS an option).

  9. Lowetide says:

    RISTOOOOO SILTANEN!!!!:

    Day five of “Kicks” stuck in my head. Can’t shake it and a suitable replacement has not been found to dislodge it. What’s worse it’s like skipping vinyl…it doesn’t even get to the next line, just a repeat of the first. Curse you!!

    Such a great song. This one might replace it but you may not thank me!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiMCTjO_dHI

  10. jm363561 says:

    Really good post LT. Draft good players – tick. Develop good players – we wait.

  11. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Oh, man, that 2017 draft is looking killer so far.Miles to go but:

    – 5 up arrows (Skinner, Samorukov, Safin, Maksimov, Kemp
    – 1 down arrow (Brindamour)
    – 1 even arrow (Yamamoto)

    By “up arrow”, I mean that the players outperformed draft position/expectation in their draft plus 1 years (at least in my mind).

    I’m not down on Yamamoto, my “even arrow” is because his draft plus 1 season was all over the place, up and down. I “expected” him to tear up the WHL and star at the World Juniors.At the end of the day, he did finish top 10 in PPG in the WHL but it was inconsistent – it took him almost two months to get going and his finish was predicated on a crazy heater post World Juniors.He also didn’t “dominate” at the World Juniors.Injuries were an issue for parts and in the playoffs. Love the player still – just not quite the consistent season I was hoping for.

    Arrows have always been a good way of evaluating players during that five-year period post draft. I think an ‘even’ arrow for Yamamoto needs a caveat for injury. When he was completely healthy, Yamamoto was a straight up arrow.

  12. Scungilli Slushy says:

    jm363561:
    Really good post LT. Draft good players – tick. Develop good players – we wait.

    They seem to be progressing. Chiarelli had a lot to fix, amd there was a lot of water under the bridge with certain players on the team.

    I don’t like a lot of what happened or feel it was the only way. That being said, PC has managed to put a lot more balance on the roster, fleshed it out with the majority being legit NHL players, sorted out the leftorium, stocked the farm with a decent amount of younger skill, and fixed drafting.

    That’s actually pretty impressive in 3 years.

  13. Bryan says:

    https://thehockeywriters.com/edmonton-oilers-history-reijo-ruotsalainen/ In case anyone missed this it’s a great reminder about one of the most unique players in Oiler history. 26 regular season games played along with a pivotal role in two Stanley cups is crazy and both of his acquisitions by Slats have to rank near the top of the cigar chewer’s moves.

  14. Scungilli Slushy says:

    This is the last stretched thin season IMO barring a mental breakdown on Kingsway.

    There are at least two high skill players that will be on the roster next season that were drafted, a bunch graduating to pro. The team will be stocked at both levels, the org depth will get very deep in the next two summers.

    I don’t think PC gets the pipe if things go south. Coach for sure with 3 replacements on staff.

  15. supernova says:

    Do we know who is the main person in Charge of Bakersfield still?

    Has Keith Gretzky assumed a bigger management portion?

    I have long criticized the Oilers & AHL prospect playing time/ Development, they had an opportunity to shift this summer and seemingly have. For the first time in a long time at the AHL level I have yet to see one “Dumb” move or even disagreeable one from this summer.

    They have also kept their 50 man contract list fairy open for the first time in forever, have often felt these are connected.

    Nick Shore would be an excellent bet. If He doesn’t make the Oilers he likely is the best AHL player on the team, has an NHL chance and also likely gets claimed during the season.

    Aside from that a player hitting waivers in training camp is a smart plan.

  16. Bryan says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    This is the last stretched thin season IMO barring a mental breakdown on Kingsway.

    There are at least two high skill players that will be on the roster next season that were drafted, a bunch graduating to pro. The team will be stocked at both levels, the org depth will get very deep in the next two summers.

    I don’t think PC gets the pipe if things go south. Coach for sure with 3 replacements on staff.

    I agree that despite some missteps along the way there is reason for optimism. The defence looks much improved to me over the one that almost made the Western Conference final. The talent pool of young players is growing. I assume the new coaches will rectify the special team issues. Just need goaltending to solidify and it won’t be so gloomy around Rogers this winter.

  17. godot10 says:

    Bryan:
    https://thehockeywriters.com/edmonton-oilers-history-reijo-ruotsalainen/ In case anyone missed this it’s a great reminder about one of the most unique players in Oiler history.26 regular season games played along with a pivotal role in two Stanley cups is crazy and both of his acquisitions by Slats have to rank near the top of the cigar chewer’s moves.

    The NHL changed the rules after the 1990 Stanley Cup, and made the Reijo Ruotsalainen rule, any player who had played in Europe during the season, would have to be put on waivers before joining his NHL team.

  18. godot10 says:

    Scungilli Slushy:
    This is the last stretched thin season IMO barring a mental breakdown on Kingsway.

    There are at least two high skill players that will be on the roster next season that were drafted, a bunch graduating to pro. The team will be stocked at both levels, the org depth will get very deep in the next two summers.

    I don’t think PC gets the pipe if things go south. Coach for sure with 3 replacements on staff.

    From the signage, I think the OIlers might have cleared out of Kingsway completely, and are now exclusively downtown at Rogers Place.

    Somebody should find out for certain so we know where to march with our pitchforks.

  19. Bryan says:

    godot10: The NHL changed the rules after the 1990 Stanley Cup, and made the Reijo Ruotsalainen rule, any player who had played in Europe during the season, would have to be put on waivers before joining his NHL team.

    Right. A few rules were changed because of the Oilers back in the day.

  20. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    supernova,

    Do we know who is the main person in Charge of Bakersfield still?

    Read a piece around the end of the season that mentioned that MacT and Bill Scott ran Bakersfield.

  21. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    godot10: From the signage, I think the OIlers might have cleared out of Kingsway completely, and are now exclusively downtown at Rogers Place.

    Somebody should find out for certain so we know where to march with our pitchforks.

    There was a photo of Pete in his office and his window looked down on Roger’s so they’re in one of the tower’s across the street.

  22. Richard S.S. says:

    When Kailer Yamamoto makes the Roster, be prepared to see him spend some time on the “disabled list” each and every year. At his size, despite his skill, injuries will happen, too much time for “oops”.

  23. smellyglove says:

    Bryan: Right.A few rules were changed because of the Oilers back in the day.

    And there were a few rules changed because of Oilers lottery luck here in the present :-).

  24. RISTOOOOO SILTANEN!!!! says:

    Lowetide: Such a great song. This one might replace it but you may not thank me!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiMCTjO_dHI

    That was a palate cleanser, we’ll see if there are any long term side effects. The keyboard shots and harmonies have a Brian Wilson thing going on so I may end up with random ear worms from Pet Sounds just from familiarity. I’m good with that.

  25. luc27 says:

    Richard S.S.,

    This theory that only small players get injured alot is messed up, look at a player like Malkin, how long has it been since hes played a full season? I would say smaller players are more durable.

  26. Bryan says:

    supernova:
    Do we know who is the main person in Charge of Bakersfield still?

    Has Keith Gretzky assumed a bigger management portion?

    I have long criticized the Oilers & AHL prospect playing time/ Development, they had an opportunity to shift this summer and seemingly have. For the first time in a long time at the AHL level I have yet to see one “Dumb” move or even disagreeable one from this summer.

    They have also kept their 50 man contract list fairy open for the first time in forever, have often felt these are connected.

    Nick Shore would be an excellent bet. If He doesn’t make the Oilers he likely is the best AHL player on the team, has an NHL chance and also likely gets claimed during the season.

    Aside from that a player hitting waivers in training camp is a smart plan.

    Bakersfield should be fun to watch this year. Players like Benson and Marody have genuine upside. Not saying he will be anywhere near the same quality of player but I see some of Adam Oates in Marody. A lot of Benson’s perceived skating issues can very likely be traced to his pelvic troubles. It will be interesting to see how this year goes for him if he can avoid further injuries.

  27. pts2pndr says:

    Lowetide: Arrows have always been a good way of evaluating players during that five-year period post draft. I think an ‘even’ arrow for Yamamoto needs a caveat for injury. When he was completely healthy, Yamamoto was a straight up arrow.

    Confirm he was hurt right after he left the Oilers back to junior?

  28. Lowetide says:

    pts2pndr: Confirm he was hurt right after he left the Oilers back to junior?

    I’m not sure what you are asking here. You are asking me to confirm he was hurt?

  29. Professor Q says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    supernova,

    Do we know who is the main person in Charge of Bakersfield still?

    Read a piece around the end of the season that mentioned that MacT and Bill Scott ran Bakersfield.

    Will Woodcroft have personnel and player control, or does this mean MacTavish and Scott are the puppet masters? Somewhere in between?

  30. Professor Q says:

    Richard S.S.:
    When Kailer Yamamoto makes the Roster, be prepared to see him spend some time on the “disabled list” each and every year.At his size, despite his skill, injuries will happen, too much time for “oops”.

    I don’t think this, nor hope and/or expect, this at all.

    Maybe a Johnny Hockey injury, such as a slash to the hands (repeatedly), but that could occur anytime on anyone.

  31. Professor Q says:

    godot10: The NHL changed the rules after the 1990 Stanley Cup, and made the Reijo Ruotsalainen rule, any player who had played in Europe during the season, would have to be put on waivers before joining his NHL team.

    But the Kovalchuk situation was different? If I remember correctly he could play for New Jersey, be traded and play for that team, or ask New Jersey permission to enter the league on waivers.

  32. rickithebear says:

    OriginalPouzar: I don’t profess to understand the number but in any event this must be where they fall apart.

    From watching all the games, Kris Russell is not a competent 2RD in the NHL.

    Sure, he defends the high danger zone well but he is doing that constantly due to not being able to move the puck out with possession.

    Its is almost always (a) a flip out or off the glass and out – safe plays that have the team going right back on the defence or (b) D to D or the reset which, while keeping possession in the instant, craters all transition.

    Thankfully, the looks to be the third pairing going in to this season and, as of now, it looks like Russell is the player that would come out of the lineup when Bouchard is to come in (if he breaks camp with the team).

    Come on Matty B.

    It is real analysis driven by accountant (cap) approval.
    Removal of a high ratio, %, Acting human action, logic system action,
    That show a positive return in business.

    No complex flattened false regression analysis from individuals devoid understanding what high actor modification does in a capital (Cap) world..
    removals (system aproach)
    – HD ratio
    – fwd off pocession vs Rovers (Off d)
    – NZ trap.
    Replacement
    – what parts effective (+ve goal diff)
    – repeatable (low failure rate)

    RE: Russel break out.
    – is opps NZ trap set up
    – doaes d partner provide a return pass option.

  33. Wilde says:

    ******BLATANT SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION ALERT******

    I’ve begun some projects that I have to post outside of here because they involve heavy amounts of video analysis and other media and visual representations along with my usual long-form writing.

    Just a simple thing I’m doing independently so as to keep my creative license in full and hone my skills without pressure.

    The short intro post to the first series, concerning Leon Draisaitl’s play away from the puck is here:

    https://petropraxis.blogspot.com/

    Still working out some stuff (like tables & charts resizing on mobile) but you get the gist of what I’m trying to do from reading it. It’s not beautiful but it works for now, I think.

    Please criticise.

    ******DISGUSTING INTERNET ATTENTION-SEEKING COMPLETE********

  34. Pescador says:

    DeerMachine11:
    Long time lurker, first time poster! Huge fan of the McLoed pick as well JT. Gone are the days of us convincing ourselves one day Moroz or Musil could be good players. The Chiarelli regime is not without its warts (don’t ask me about the Hall trade after 2 sips of malt). But seeing the organization give a damn about it’s selections after the first round is very exciting to me. The McDavid oilers will need value contracts for the next 8-15 years. We need to start drafting them. And I believe Pete and KG are off to a great start.

    I was thrilled with the top two picks this year. It’s not often you simultaneously draft BPA & address team need(s).
    As for trader Pete;
    He has the ability to from zero to hero between here & Seattle expansion.
    The offloading of Lucic, Sekera & Russell contracts is the challenge ahead. What will be given up to accomplish this?
    Draft picks, salary retention, taking back another ugly contract.
    Best case scenario, one or more of these players return to form. I’ll guess Sekera possibly Russell if he gets to play sheltered 3rd pairing.
    If all 3 need to be protected, Yikes

  35. pts2pndr says:

    Lowetide: I’m not sure what you are asking here. You are asking me to confirm he was hurt?

    As I recall Yamamoto struggled from the time he left the oilers through the world juniors and therefore there was a reasonably lengthy period of time before he became the player everyone thought he could be. He was injured durring the WHL playoffs. I guess what I was asking was why caveat injury. I was wondering if I had possibly judged him too harshly as I would agree with OP’s even arrow as being justified.

  36. Oilman99 says:

    Lowetide: Arrows have always been a good way of evaluating players during that five-year period post draft. I think an ‘even’ arrow for Yamamoto needs a caveat for injury. When he was completely healthy, Yamamoto was a straight up arrow.

    Yamamoto injured at worlds, nagging injury may be reason it took him so long to get going after returning to the Dub, injured again in playoffs again. This may be a sign he is too fragile for the heavy going, he seems to have a pretty slight frame.

  37. Pescador says:

    Richard S.S.:
    When Kailer Yamamoto makes the Roster, be prepared to see him spend some time on the “disabled list” each and every year.At his size, despite his skill, injuries will happen, too much time for “oops”.

    From 2002/03 to 2011/12
    St.Louis missed all of 5 games in nearly a decade
    https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php%3Fpid%3D18067&ved=2ahUKEwjy6YS_7cTcAhViMH0KHU2LBscQFjAhegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2mri11tyZuWF66-1-7eF8b
    But ya, those smaller player types aren’t very durable

  38. Wilde says:

    I think Keith Gretzky would likely be fine as a GM, certainly the player personnel and vision half.

    Pro scouting just seems like an easier version of amateur scouting. No projection.

  39. Oilman99 says:

    luc27:
    Richard S.S.,

    This theory that only small players get injured alot is messed up, look at a player like Malkin, how long has it been since hes played a full season? I would say smaller players are more durable.

    Solidly built smaller players, no problem,fine boned smaller players not so much.

  40. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Re: earworms, for the worst of them (like that infernal Oodle Noodle commercial) I have “on file” a playlist of brain-friendly earworms that I can summon up to dispatch the unwanted intruder & take control. Can’t be passive about earworms, the only path forward is to stage a hostile takeover by friendly forces

  41. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    I think you are missing the Koskinen free agent signing.

    Like the bet on the player, still don’t understand the contract (and don’t like it at all – walking away WAS an option).

    Did you scout the guy? NO. Obviously the scouts did their job for the team to give the guy that kind of contract. His record over the past couple of years looks good. I would suggest the playing goal on the larger ice surface is more difficult. Give the team the benefit of the doubt.

  42. BornInAGretzkyJersey says:

    Mikko Koskinen highlights for the group:

    https://youtu.be/kM85v_41J_c

  43. Wilde says:

    Oilman99: Solidly built smaller players, no problem,fine boned smaller players not so much.

    This is prime VOR-bait if I’ve ever seen it

  44. Lowetide says:

    One of my favourite ear worms

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPnBrK6D26g&index=30&list=RDkdDtOOJgTzc

    My uncle Ross had the 45, I played it 110,000 times.

  45. Lowetide says:

    Oilman99: Yamamoto injured at worlds, nagging injury may be reason it took him so long to get going after returning to the Dub, injured again in playoffs again. This may be a sign he is too fragile for the heavy going, he seems to have a pretty slight frame.

    Yamamoto’s WHL season:

    November: 8gp, 1-6-7
    December 5gp, 1-4-5
    January 8gp, 7-12-19
    February 12gp, 10-15-25
    March 7gp, 2-6-8

    He killed it after the WJ’s.

  46. rickithebear says:

    The last 20 years of my career.
    I would get daily/weekly recruitment calls for employment.
    Based large ratio philosophy I practiced since I was a child.

    Efficiency of purpose.
    But not until I understood money value.
    Past 18 yr, did I get return per dollar.
    35 yr of that approach.

    One of my favourite moments was the shit storm I created on HF boards in 2011(?).
    When I simply looked at a Horcoff and Crosby,s Goal & Point production per million dollars.
    A simple cap analysis.
    What a shit storm!
    I fucking laughed at how many people thought I was saying Horcoff was better than Crosby.

    All this analysis is about opening up +ve goal diff ( win mechanism) as effectively ( high ratio, %) as possible, as easily as possible (sys Chg, replace) as cheap as possible ( low cap hit).

    I have found it funny that the things I point out to the most simplified flaws relative to cap based Goal diff efficiency.
    Are ignored or fought against.
    Real goal dif rather than %

    Let’s look at 1 goal diff wins.
    2-1 win; GF% 66.7
    3-2 win; GF% 60.0
    4-3 win; GF% 57.1
    5-4 win; GF% 55.6
    Less goals against higher win probability. ( I get %)
    I recent showed players with same % all having diffrent GD base and goal diff
    You need a visual of the base goal diff for reference.
    Saying +1 goal diff is easier.

    That is why 3 axis situation matrix is important.
    All 3 axis affect data.
    Real unit affect on each is a great identifier of standard matrix group size.
    Team, comp, ZS.
    It allows you to choose a point in the matrix based on 3 situation variables
    I dentify the expected avg and compare a players performance to that.
    High neg def specialists being +ve relative to thier demands.

    Save% avg established by Dpair
    EVG/CA by defensive triangle (2D -G) or (rover – D – G) or (#4fwd – D – G)
    Situation baseline by structure.

    Systems with best goal diff HD penetration: offence (the real tough) & Defence
    Get players that already are goal diff affective.
    Not valuing negative goal diff sys decisions.
    Abandoning 2 D structure (HD and closed corsi)
    Off dmen pocession. (4 times ineffective)
    PK +ve GD cheaper cap hit than PP +ve GD.
    Symbiotic units:
    replacing high cost (trade/ufa) players with cheaper cost players types who achieve the same.
    EX. 0% Corsi Dman paired with a top HD D.

    ONCE you have made system changes to eliminate high-ve high actors.
    And placed personel based on situation avg and results.
    You are ahead of the game.

  47. Georgexs says:

    Wilde,

    Good stuff.

    Do you plan to compare Draisaitl to another centre with a good reputation for being defensively responsible? Or is that too much work? Ricki says the HC abandoned the HD last season. Any sense yet that this is true? Was there a change in systems year to year?

  48. Scungilli Slushy says:

    Bryan: Right.A few rules were changed because of the Oilers back in the day.

    They changed a few more in this day when the mighty Oilers turned their prowess to owning the draft lottery like they once owned the teams in the league.

  49. Scungilli Slushy says:

    luc27:
    Richard S.S.,

    This theory that only small players get injured alot is messed up, look at a player like Malkin, how long has it been since hes played a full season? I would say smaller players are more durable.

    I think it depends on build and style of play. Small guys banging get hurt, it’s just physics. Some shorter guys are built though, like Domis or St Louis, so are very strong.

    Malkin is rail thin, so his build doesn’t take abuse well. Simmonds I read was affected by nagging injuries, another very thin guy who plays like he’s 220.

    Vor posted a few days ago about how tendon and ligament thickness plays into strength and power. I read once that some NBA teams starting looking at joint size of draft prospects because of knees and ankles developing issues in thinner boned players at those heights.

  50. Wilde says:

    Georgexs: Do you plan to compare Draisaitl to another centre with a good reputation for being defensively responsible?

    Yes, Anze Kopitar was a negative G/D player for his first two seasons before and he was my target because Drai talked about looking up to him when he was playing with him at the World Cup, but I couldn’t get my video archive to go back that far. It’s a shame because there’s so physically similar in frame and playstyle. Currently looking for other “Big centre learned to check gud” stories.

    Georgexs: Ricki says the HC abandoned the HD last season. Any sense yet that this is true? Was there a change in systems year to year?

    Yes, but it’s not that the HD area was ‘abandoned’ it’s that one of the guys there often wasn’t a Dman (Like how Klefbom is pressuring the close boards guy while Drai ties up the guy netside in the clip at the bottom of the post)

  51. Lowetide says:

    For The Athletic: If Evan Bouchard makes the Oilers, who is the odd man out/

    https://theathletic.com/450429/2018/07/29/if-evan-bouchard-makes-the-oilers-who-is-the-odd-man-out-on-defence/

  52. godot10 says:

    Pescador: From 2002/03 to 2011/12
    St.Louis missed all of 5 games in nearly a decade
    https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php%3Fpid%3D18067&ved=2ahUKEwjy6YS_7cTcAhViMH0KHU2LBscQFjAhegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2mri11tyZuWF66-1-7eF8b
    But ya, those smaller player types aren’t very durable

    Marin St. Louis didn’t make the NHL till he was 24, with his full man strength (for a small man), and he had muscle on his frame.

    Yamamoto is still a boy with pretty much no muscular development or man strength.

    One shouldn’t expect too much of Yamamoto. A lot of smaller guys take a year or two to adjust to playing against men.

  53. Professor Q says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    Re: earworms, for the worst of them (like that infernal Oodle Noodle commercial) I have “on file” a playlist of brain-friendly earworms that I can summon up to dispatch the unwanted intruder & take control. Can’t be passive about earworms, the only path forward is to stage a hostile takeover by friendly forces

    I’ve had “Oh Sheila” by Ready For The World stuck in my head for a week and a half now. All day, every day…

  54. Melvis says:

    Bruce McCurdy:
    Re: earworms, for the worst of them (like that infernal Oodle Noodle commercial) I have “on file” a playlist of brain-friendly earworms that I can summon up to dispatch the unwanted intruder & take control. Can’t be passive about earworms, the only path forward is to stage a hostile takeover by friendly forces

    Hella Good advice. These things require maassive armour spearheaded flanking counterattacks.

  55. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Melvis: Hella Good advice. These things require maassive armour spearheaded flanking counterattacks.

    Thanks Melvis. I will consider the source & consider that a hella compliment.

  56. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    – Hey LT : don’t be hating me. I’m glad your view is that neither coach or gm should be fired. Ive long assumed you advocated their dismal, certainly chias the day he treaded hall. That was a fireable offence you thought

    – also I’m half from a post or two ago that you are feeling much better about this teams chances.

    – I’ve said that I figured when you started mulling about the roster this year and you felt it wasn’t a playoff team that I thought that after further analysis you might change your tune.

    – on a seperate note I just finished our club championship for golf today. I didn’t win but played in the final group with a buddy who is in nhl. He had some real cool insight into how athletes handle pressure. It’s a longer post which I will share later.

  57. jm363561 says:

    godot10: Marin St. Louis didn’t make the NHL till he was 24, with his full man strength (for a small man), and he had muscle on his frame.

    Yamamoto is still a boy with pretty much no muscular development or man strength.

    =========

    Great point. Gaudreau played only one NHL game in his first three post draft years. It is not just a question of whether a player is good enough for the Big League.

  58. RISTOOOOO SILTANEN!!!! says:

    Bruce McCurdy,

    Bruce McCurdy:
    Re: earworms, for the worst of them (like that infernal Oodle Noodle commercial) I have “on file” a playlist of brain-friendly earworms that I can summon up to dispatch the unwanted intruder & take control. Can’t be passive about earworms, the only path forward is to stage a hostile takeover by friendly forces

    Too true, too true. I thought my file was pretty robust, but Kicks wrecked it all. I need to up my anti-ear worm game.

  59. Lowetide says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux:
    – Hey LT : don’t be hating me. I’m glad your view is that neither coach or gm should be fired. Ive long assumedyou advocated their dismal, certainly chias the day he treaded hall.That was a fireable offence you thought

    – also I’m half from a post or two ago that you are feeling much better about this teams chances.

    – I’ve said that I figured when you started mulling about the roster this year and you felt it wasn’t a playoff team that I thought that after furtheranalysis you might change your tune.

    – on a seperate note I just finished our club championship for golf today. I didn’t win but played in the final group with a buddy who is in nhl. He had some real cool insight into how athletes handle pressure. It’s a longer post which I will share later.

    Trading Hall IS a fireable offense, but the Oilers chose not to do it. I could write about that everyday but doubt anyone would read it. All of that said, I have nothing personal against Peter Chiarelli, he brought Boston a Stanley, perhaps he’ll bring one to Edmonton.

    What’s important is stating facts as facts, as I believe I have done in this case.

  60. blainer says:

    Oilman99: Did you scout the guy? NO. Obviously the scouts did their job for the team to give the guy that kind of contract. His record over the past couple of years looks good. I would suggest the playing goal on the larger ice surface is more difficult. Give the team the benefit of the doubt.

    The KHL is full of goalies with great numbers.. Scrivens included. Add to that the quality of the players and the ice size plus the number of very low scoring games as a result.. IMO you don’t have to be a scout to assess the risk of signing this player .. especially at that crazy number. A number which is most often paid out for goaltenders with an NHL history.

    We could have acquired a much better goalie to push Tabs such as Carter Hutton for an extra $250K.That would have been the smart play.

    I have watched quite a few highlights of Koskinen and IMO he reminds me a lot of the monster. Now I will admit I am no scout and never played in goal much but will say I do not have a good feeling on this move at all. I am the first to admit when i am wrong and have done so on this forum many times and you can count this as another time I hope I am wrong.

    Unfortunately I have also been right on some of my predictions such as Yak etc. I guess time will tell and you may be correct.. but boy the OIL sure have whiffed a lot on the goalie position. Just go back over the last ten years and review the goaltenders that were signed or were acquired ..

    The sad part is that a good portion of the management that made those decisions are still employed including the most recent add in Chia.

    I expect and hope you remind me that I was wrong on this call as if that happens i will be very happy we are winning games.

    Great Goaltending wins championships and gets the coach and GM awards as well. Lets hope they got this one right…

  61. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide: Trading Hall IS a fireable offense, but the Oilers chose not to do it. I could write about that everyday but doubt anyone would read it. All of that said, I have nothing personal against Peter Chiarelli, he brought Boston a Stanley, perhaps he’ll bring one to Edmonton.

    What’s important is stating facts as facts, as I believe I have done in this case.

    No, trading Hall is not a firable offence. Only getting Adam Larsson and $2m cap relief in return is.

    So there.

  62. OriginalPouzar says:

    jtblack:
    Loving that Ryan Mcleod pick more and more

    It will be his 4th year of junior, so the expectation will be “Dominance” all around (5×5, PK, PP).

    Anybody know if his team is Good, Avg or bad?

    2017 Draft could see3+ NHLers.

    Like both drafts. Now lets repeat the skill drafting the next 2 years and Win a few Cups

    I didn’t know much about him on draft day but the more I read and see I really like. From accounts, the deficiencies in his game (battles, consistent effort, etc.) are things that can be worked on and often come with age/maturity. He’s got the speed and skill to be a player.

    Here is hoping he can make Team Canada.

    Given his age, he’ll be able to play in the AHL next year which is great (he won’t have to play his draft plus 2 year in junior).

  63. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Arrows have always been a good way of evaluating players during that five-year period post draft. I think an ‘even’ arrow for Yamamoto needs a caveat for injury. When he was completely healthy, Yamamoto was a straight up arrow.

    Fair enough but I would have to say the exception was the first part of the season after being returned to Spokane. I know it often takes some time for a CHL player to get going after being returned from the NHL but, if I remember correctly, after 4 points in his first game back, he struggled for an extended period of time, like 6 weeks or so. I could be mis-remembering/exaggerating the time line though.

  64. rickithebear says:

    VOR:
    Seeing you talk about that 2010 paper cap measure methods.
    “We should look at that!”

    Real world!
    Yes sir!

    Which requires theoretical flat regression thinkers who are against reductionism.
    To simplify, identify and eliminate.

    #1 top 5 GA teams can win a cup with bottom 3 GF
    But top 5 GF teams do not win cups with bottom 2/5 GA.

    #2 A higher probability of winning games with lower GA.

    #3 lower EVGA def triangles create more WC capable EVGF fwd options.

    #4 EVG production & Defence players.

    +/- Goal diff.

    I said this recently on here.
    1. Make simplest non cost fixes.
    2. Identify cap viable high result player changes.

    Goal diff, cap, cap, goal diff, cap, cap.

    I recently quoted KLowe.

    Paraphrase:
    We were a poor team who could not keep our good fwds.
    Then we had money so we got our forwards.
    But we realized you build thru the middle.

    Based on public statement of GM or report.
    Oilers;
    Mcdavid (MacT) C 12.5M
    Drai (MacT) C/RW 8.5M
    RNH (Tambo) C/LW 6M
    Strome (PC) C/W 3.1M trade Eberle (Tambo)
    Brodziak (PC) C 1.15M
    Khaira (Tambo) C/LW .675M
    Caggiula (MacT) C/W 1.5M

    Lucic (PC) LW 6M
    Rieder (PC) L/RW 2M
    Kassian (PC) RW 1.95M
    JP (PC) RW .925M ELC
    Rattie (PC) RW .8M
    Aberg (PC) L/RW .65M

    Dmen in HD sys
    Larsson (PC) RD 4.167M Top 15 1st comp HD Dman; Hall (Tambo) trade
    Russel (PC) L/RD 4M Top5 0% corsi D; HD results: top30 1st comp; top15 2nd comp; Top15 3rd comp
    Gravel (PC) RD .7M Top 10 2nd comp HD
    Sekera (PC) LD 5.5M Top 15 2nd comp HD
    Benning (MacT) RD 1.9M Top 70 2nd comp HD
    Nurse (MacT) LD RFA top 70 2nd comp HD
    Klefbom (Tambo) LD 4.167M Top 90 2/3 comp HD
    I look at top 60 2nd comp as being there.

    Talbot (MacT) 4.167M Top 10 HD Goalie.

    The great HD factories were you pull dmen from.
    NJ, LAK, SJ, ANA, BOS, CHI ??? or a coach with history in 3. (Yawney)
    Three major HD prospects were emerging in LAK.
    Mcnabb Top 10 1/2 comp (VGK) exp
    Forbert Top 20 1/2 comp
    Gravel Top 10 2nd comp though illness set him back.

    Your money needs to go to
    1. flexible center 1/2 comp capable depth 30.1M
    Mcdavid, Drai, RNH, Strome
    Top 4 HD d 15.567M
    Larsson, Russell, Sekera, Benning
    Starting goalie 4.167M
    49.734M for 9 players.

    Looking at top 62 picks back 8 years.
    17 – 18 draft avg
    24d – 23C – 6LW – 9RW – 2G

    14 – 16 draft avg
    18D – 18C – 11LW – 11RW – 4G

    11 – 13 draft avg
    20D – 18C – 12LW – 8RW – 4G

    D,C in first 2 rounds.
    High RK Euro goal scoring F mid 2nd/3rd
    Goalies Upper 3rd down

    Strategy moving forward?

  65. OriginalPouzar says:

    supernova:

    Nick Shore would be an excellent bet. If He doesn’t make the Oilers he likely is the best AHL player on the team, has an NHL chance and also likely gets claimed during the season.

    Aside from that a player hitting waivers in training camp is a smart plan.

    One bottom of the lineup addition at forward (apx $800K if not cheaper) is required in my opinion. Shore is probably one that I would sign at the amount and there are various others that would warrant PTOs to see if they have anything to give.

    Depending on Yamamoto’s readiness for the NHL, we are one injury away from a non-NHL player (i.e. AHL veteran) being inserted in to the lineup (or rushing a prospect like Marody/Yamamoto).

  66. Chris says:

    Professor Q: I’ve had “Oh Sheila” by Ready For The World stuck in my head for a week and a half now. All day, every day…

    Oh my, that’s not good

  67. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bryan: I agree that despite some missteps along the way there is reason for optimism.The defence looks much improved to me over the one that almost made the Western Conference final.The talent pool of young players is growing.I assume the new coaches will rectify the special team issues.Just need goaltending to solidify and it won’t be so gloomy around Rogers this winter.

    That’s interesting as the starting defence is the exact same as that in the playoffs with an up arrow for Nurse and a down arrow for Sekera. Gryba essentially replaced with Gravel.

    Bouchard is a wild card on the roster.

    Bear is closer to being an NHL player.

    I’m hoping that a wild card for a call-up on merit over Stanton/Lowe is Lagesson…..

  68. Lowetide says:

    Jethro Tull: No, trading Hall is not a firable offence. Only getting Adam Larsson and $2m cap relief in return is.

    So there.

    I have no quarrel with Adam Larsson, he’s a good NHL defenseman, better than I’d thought he would be, truth to tell.

  69. Chris says:

    Once upon a long time ago, back in Junior High, I was writing an exam, scienc I think. I had Rock Around the Clock stuck in my head. The harder I tried to erase it from my mind, the louder it was in my head. Needless to say, I did very poorly on that exam.

  70. Jethro Tull says:

    Lowetide: I have no quarrel with Adam Larsson, he’s a good NHL defenseman, better than I’d thought he would be, truth to tell.

    Oh yeah, love the player. Wasn’t worth Tay Tay, though. I think Chia was betting on Adam having more offense in him.

  71. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: The NHL changed the rules after the 1990 Stanley Cup, and made the Reijo Ruotsalainen rule, any player who had played in Europe during the season, would have to be put on waivers before joining his NHL team.

    That was one of a few rule changes that were directly because of the Oilers.

  72. OriginalPouzar says:

    Richard S.S.:
    When Kailer Yamamoto makes the Roster, be prepared to see him spend some time on the “disabled list” each and every year.At his size, despite his skill, injuries will happen, too much time for “oops”.

    From what I can tell, and correct me if I’m wrong, this type of verbal is based on nothing substantive.

  73. Bruce McCurdy says:

    RISTOOOOO SILTANEN!!!!:
    Bruce McCurdy,

    Too true, too true. I thought my file was pretty robust, but Kicks wrecked it all. I need to up my anti-ear worm game.

    Sounds like The Kicks were like Tom Wilson on the forecheck, disrupting your best laid plans. Time to deliver the Sherwood Sandwich.

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    Pescador: I was thrilled with the top two picks this year. It’s not often you simultaneously draft BPA & address team need(s).
    As for trader Pete;
    He has the ability to from zero to hero between here & Seattle expansion.
    The offloading of Lucic, Sekera & Russell contracts is the challenge ahead. What will be given up to accomplish this?
    Draft picks, salary retention, taking back another ugly contract.
    Best case scenario, one or more of these players return to form. I’ll guess Sekera possibly Russell if he gets to play sheltered 3rd pairing.
    If all 3 need to be protected, Yikes

    Sekera’s NMC falls away after this season so he won’t need to be protected.

    I would imagine they would buy out Russell after the 2019/20 season if they aren’t able to move him. Protecting him simply cannot be an option given the level of player we are already set up to lose.

  75. OriginalPouzar says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sekera’s NMC falls away after this season so he won’t need to be protected.

    I would imagine they would buy out Russell after the 2019/20 season if they aren’t able to move him.Protecting him simply cannot be an option given the level of player we are already set up to lose.

    It would not be a great scenario as it would provide a $3M dead cap hit for the year but that’s likely better than the level of player protecting him would cause us to lose.

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Yamamoto injured at worlds, nagging injury may be reason it took him so long to get going after returning to the Dub, injured again in playoffs again. This may be a sign he is too fragile for the heavy going, he seems to have a pretty slight frame.

    I don’t believe he was injured leaving the NHL for Spokane where it took him a good 6 weeks (if not longer) to get going.

    The injury at the worlds was a gutless slash that had nothing to do with his slight frame.

    I never did hear how he got injured leading in to the WHL playoffs.

  77. Bruce McCurdy says:

    Jethro Tull: Oh yeah, love the player.Wasn’t worth Tay Tay, though. I think Chia was betting on Adam having more offense in him.

    Call me crazy but I still think Larsson has more offence in him. What he does have already (20 points a season) is bought & paid for. His last powerplay point came in 2011.

    Yes you read that right.

  78. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Did you scout the guy? NO. Obviously the scouts did their job for the team to give the guy that kind of contract. His record over the past couple of years looks good. I would suggest the playing goal on the larger ice surface is more difficult. Give the team the benefit of the doubt.

    The fact you have such a problem with me that you go out of your way to try and pick apart my posts, and now on multiple platforms, is very interesting.

    Nope, I didn’t scout him and have only seen him play internationally.

    As I said, I am absolutely fine with the bet on the player but I see no reasonable argument for a $2.5M cap hit.

    There is simply no comparable to justify such a contract. The KHL goalie of the year, a numbers of years younger, signed for $690K.

    Yup, he’s been great in the KHL and internationally – so were Curtis Sanford and Anders Nilsson – his numbers in the KHL line up with theirs generally.

    Sure, if the team was flush with cap space, maybe they could overpay for a one year deal on a potential back-up goalie, however, that is far far from the situation.

    Sure, there were other teams interested and I guess that was the “market cost” and, if that was the case, in my opinion that proper option was to walk away. It was April for crying out loud and there were numerous high end back-up goalies, established in the NHL, that were going to come on the market and be cheaper.

    I hope Koskinen is lights out, I hope he’s the next Kipper, however, there are numerous examples of high end KHL players, including goalies, where the success does not translate to the NHL.

    The GM committed an extra $1.5M to the back-up goalie position and may not have even improved it.

  79. Melvis says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – on a seperate note I just finished our club championship for golf today. I didn’t win but played in the final group with a buddy who is in nhl. He had some real cool insight into how athletes handle pressure. It’s a longer post which I will share later.

    The short post version… think the TaylorMade Spliff might be ideal for whatever ails one on the golf course.

  80. Pescador says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Sounds like The Kicks were like Tom Wilson on the forecheck, disrupting your best laid plans. Time to deliver the Sherwood Sandwich.

    Mmmmm, Sherwood sandwich with a side of elbow macaroni
    washed down with some 5 finger face punch
    $5.15M a season too

  81. Pescador says:

    Melvis: The short post version… think the TaylorMade Spliff might be ideal for whatever ails one on the golf course.

    That’s usually the point where my game goes to shite,
    Never seems to hinder the enjoyment of the day tho

  82. rickithebear says:

    This is not directed at any individual.

    So when a person looks at Champ teams.
    The 2 cup finalists each year.
    Recognize acrpeated core.
    Do you not trade for that core?

    Larson hall trade = bad
    Yours is a trite non goal diff thinking view.

    And trite backwards naratives (MVP) are even worse.
    1. We have an interview we’re hall says he is finally listening to coaching.

    2. Halls last 2yr in EDM and first in NJ he was a
    69gm 20g 32A 52P -5 fwd
    This is the Hall we Had.
    We could use his 15evg 41 evp

    3. Eberle last 3 yr he was a
    77gm 23g 31a 54p -8 PVP fwd
    who should have been allowed to kill soft parade.
    Yes we miss his 17evg 39 Evp

    4. RNH last 3 years has been
    66gm 18g 24a 42p -3
    13evg 31evp -3
    Facing 2nd comp in his career
    18yr rookie season. .84 PPG ten best in modern era.
    80 gm pace 23g 44a 67P
    With Eberle under Nelson .94 ppg
    80gm pace 32g 47a 77P
    With Mcdavid 1.063 ppg
    80 gm pace 40g 45a 85p

    5. Strome was brought in.as a more cap controlled fwd
    Success at centermeant softer work for RNH.
    Stome is a 80gm 14g 21a 35P cheaper cap 3rd C
    With 80gm 12evg 27evp -6

    Frees RNH to be a heck of Off pair with Mcdavid for 3 years
    I would be happy with 79gm 30-40g 45a 75-85p
    30g 75p is 8M performance.

  83. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Yamamoto’s WHL season:

    November: 8gp, 1-6-7
    December 5gp, 1-4-5
    January 8gp, 7-12-19
    February 12gp, 10-15-25
    March 7gp, 2-6-8

    He killed it after the WJ’s.

    Yes, his heater after the WJC was amazing but the reason for my even arrow is largely because of those first two months – he was healthy (as far as I know) and it took him 2 months to get going. Those 7 points in 8 games in November also include a 4-point game.

    Anyways, as I said, I am not down on the prospect at all, just think his season was uneven/inconsistent and he didn’t outperform expectations on a whole.

  84. Melvis says:

    Pescador,

    Yeah but…I’ve made some unbelievable shots under the influence. The kind that have you rolling on the ground laughing because the stupid bet paid off.

    “I bet I can nail the pin from here”.

    It’s 90 feet out. All you can see is the flag.

    “Yer nuts. You couldn’t nail a barn from here.”

    “How about a hundo?”

    “You’re on.”

    Bang.

    “You bastard”

    “Where’s the effin ball?”

    “It’s in the hole. &*$@^#^$#) Fuck.”

  85. OriginalPouzar says:

    jm363561: =========

    Great point. Gaudreau played only one NHL game in his first three post draft years. It is not just a question of whether a player is good enough for the Big League.

    The league has also changed massively from the time St. Louis started and even from the time Gaudreau started.

    Sure, Yamamoto may need a year or two (or may never really “make it”), I can’t/won’t discount that possibility, however, at the same time, I have to acknowledge that the league is now much kinder to smaller framed forwards, including teenagers.

    One need not look past Alex Debrincat to realize that its not a foregone conclusion that this talented player needs AHL time due to stature.

  86. Jethro Tull says:

    rickithebear: This is not directed at any individual

    Bullshit. At least own it when you’re addressing whoever you think is wrong. You owe it to them, it’s called adult discourse. But then you don’t seem to be able to answer anyone without personal insults then hiding behind the unfortunate things happening in your life, so maybe it’s for the best.

    There was no way anyone could spin Adam Larsson was worth Taylor Hall before the trade. All the Hart trophy did was drive the nails further in the coffin. If the Oilers win the cup, and Larsson scores the winning goal, it still would be a bad trade. If the Oilers win a cup in the next five years, it won’t be because of that trade, it’ll be despite it.

    Chia fucks up the big trades. The sooner people accept this the better to concentrate on what he does do well.

  87. rickithebear says:

    Bruce McCurdy: Call me crazy but I still think Larsson has more offence in him. What he does have already (20 points a season) is bought & paid for. His last powerplay point came in 2011.

    Yes you read that right.

    Bruce:
    You see me breaking up players by unit play.
    Use to give thier seasonal value in +/- Goal dif.
    But that just freaks people.

    PP goals are scored 3 (7.35/2.35) times more per minute than even.
    Shouldn’t we divide the PP by 3 to equate to even production.
    Shouldn’t we times PK goal diff by 3 to equate even goal diff.

  88. Lowetide says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, his heater after the WJC was amazing but the reason for my even arrow is largely because of those first two months – he was healthy (as far as I know) and it took him 2 months to get going.Those 7 points in 8 games in November also include a 4-point game.

    Definitely where our disconnect takes place. Yamamoto’s first game in the WHL was November 10, his last game before heading to WJ’s was December 12. It’s a month really, although it takes place over two individual months.

  89. Genjutsu says:

    As much as last season was a disaster I’m not certain things are as terrible as some here are.

    This Wilson signing kinda puts Lucic in a new light.

    If this team gets average goalering it makes the playoffs.

  90. Melvis says:

    It’s high summer boys. Smoke and a joke boys Smoke and a joke.

    Best so long, see you later Hallsy tune, but you already knew that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQOaLP-qPmk&frags=pl%2Cwn

    Some vid to go with that.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A7XJLhRVVE&frags=pl%2Cwn

  91. Richard S.S. says:

    Pescador,

    And who was on the Ice when he was? Stats can say anything you want them to.

    There is zero chance Kailer has that much protection. Too many people/knuckleheads are trying to justify the existence in the NHL for Kailer to avoid the cheap and dirty.

  92. Richard S.S. says:

    OriginalPouzar,

    This is an oppinion, it has substantive value to me and must to you as you did comment.

    For all other replies, Thank You. The information provided is a big help.

  93. rickithebear says:

    Jethro Tull: Bullshit. At least own it when you’re addressing whoever you think is wrong. You owe it to them, it’s called adult discourse. But then you don’t seem to be able to answer anyone without personal insults then hiding behind the unfortunate things happening in your life, so maybe it’s for the best.

    There was no way anyone could spin Adam Larsson was worth Taylor Hall before the trade. All the Hart trophy did was drive the nails further in the coffin. If the Oilers win the cup, and Larsson scores the winning goal, it still would be a bad trade. If the Oilers win a cup in the next five years, it won’t be because of that trade, it’ll be despite it.

    Chia fucks up the big trades. The sooner people accept this the better to concentrate on what he does do well.

    No I have worked on the details of a comment relative to this.
    This is for a mass view.

    One thing I am know for is not being afraid to say something to a persons face.

    No one else laid out cup finial Core Theory.
    I have HF board posts that date back 4 years with my cup core.

    Cup core trade value.
    Top 10 HD dmen 1 per 3 teams.
    The real good ones drag poorer HD dmens results up.
    See Larsson.

    Top 60 fwd 2 per every team.
    Hall was a 1.29 top 125 fwd and a wing.

    Larsson 6 times less availability per team.

    Centers with versitility – Top 4 D – Goalie.
    G before D
    D before C
    C before W

    Everybody Knows
    That’s how it goes.
    Everybody Knows!

  94. Side says:

    Richard S.S.:
    When Kailer Yamamoto makes the Roster, be prepared to see him spend some time on the “disabled list” each and every year.At his size, despite his skill, injuries will happen, too much time for “oops”.

    But I thought with Milan Lucic on the ice, no one would injure our players because they would be too afraid of what Milan would do to them?

  95. pts2pndr says:

    OriginalPouzar: That’s interesting as the starting defence is the exact same as that in the playoffs with an up arrow for Nurse and a down arrow for Sekera.Gryba essentially replaced with Gravel.

    Bouchard is a wild card on the roster.

    Bear is closer to being an NHL player.

    I’m hoping that a wild card for a call-up on merit over Stanton/Lowe is Lagesson…..

    The major difference is in experience level for both Nurse and Benning. I believe that the team depth is also superior. With good coaching this D has the promise of excellent to outstanding moving forward! With Bouchard,Berglund, Lagesson etc pushing as well. Goaltending is also looking as promising as it has in a long time!

  96. OriginalPouzar says:

    Lowetide: Definitely where our disconnect takes place. Yamamoto’s first game in the WHL was November 10, his last game before heading to WJ’s was December 12. It’s a month really, although it takes place over two individual months.

    OK, fair enough, and I guess it was only 13 games – it seemed longer to me.

  97. pts2pndr says:

    Side: But I thought with Milan Lucic on the ice, no one would injure our players because they would be too afraid of what Milan would do to them?

    Your comment while sarcastic is not well thought out! Basic rule in contact sports is when giving up weight and height advantage the smaller player normally loses! Bus hits semi and bus loses. Size matters! The math says so!

  98. OriginalPouzar says:

    pts2pndr: The major difference is in experience level for both Nurse and Benning. I believe that the team depth is also superior. With good coaching this D has the promise of excellent to outstanding moving forward! With Bouchard,Berglund, Lagesson etc pushing as well. Goaltending is also looking as promising as it has in a long time!

    Fair enough – I almost added Benning to my post but, at this point, we are unsure if he can grab that 2RD role and run with it – he struggled to do so last year.

    I hope Nurse’s development and plus game over the last two years isn’t mitigated completely with Sekera’s downturn – I’m nervous about how healthy his knee will ever be. I don’t imagine it will be 100% but there is a big difference between 65% and 90% – both are possibilities.

    With respect to to the future, absolutely, I’m bullish on the defensive group as a whole. I’m one of those that don’t believe a true elite/stud #1D is required for Stanley and think a combination of Nurse (or Klefbom) and Larsson as the top pairing will be just fine as long as the 2nd pairing is a strong second pairing – the left side will be for sure (with Klefbom (Nurse)) and here is hoping that Bouchard develops in to a solid 2nd pairing guy with great offence (PP). If not, we still have possibilities in Bear, Berglund, Kemp, Marino and also, have decent depth of prospects on the left side (Samorukov, Lagesson, Jones, etc.).

    We have Sekera and Russell to bridge the gap until Bouchard, Bear, Lagesson, etc. are ready to come in and provide some true value.

  99. ashley says:

    For ear worms, I go through the chorus of INXS’ Devil Inside. It immediately clears out the worm, and remarkably, doesn’t become a worm itself – for my brain anyway.

  100. Side says:

    pts2pndr: Your comment while sarcastic is not well thought out! Basic rule in contact sports is when giving up weight and height advantage the smaller player normally loses! Bus hits semi and bus loses. Size matters! The math says so!

    I have no clue what your comment has to do with my comment.

  101. digger50 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Yes, his heater after the WJC was amazing but the reason for my even arrow is largely because of those first two months – he was healthy (as far as I know) and it took him 2 months to get going.Those 7 points in 8 games in November also include a 4-point game.

    Anyways, as I said, I am not down on the prospect at all, just think his season was uneven/inconsistent and he didn’t outperform expectations on a whole.

    I’m sure many here can relate to dropping down a leage and expecting to be hot sh*t.

    Hockey, soccer, basketball. You drop a league and think you will clean up. Your timing is off, passes are ahead of everyone, speed is off, it’s just “different”

    It happens, and no big deal, but there is an adjustment period.

  102. jp says:

    pts2pndr: Your comment while sarcastic is not well thought out! Basic rule in contact sports is when giving up weight and height advantage the smaller player normally loses! Bus hits semi and bus loses. Size matters! The math says so!

    Well in your analogy everyone loses.

    On the ice Yamamoto is certainly going to lose a physical battle with Lucic, no ones arguing that. But it’s not inevitable he’ll be injured by said battle, or is more prone to injury than anyone else based on his size. Tons and tons of big men have been injury prone, think of the Lindros’s.

  103. pts2pndr says:

    jp: Well in your analogy everyone loses.

    On the ice Yamamoto is certainly going to lose a physical battle with Lucic, no ones arguing that. But it’s not inevitable he’ll be injured by said battle, or is more prone to injury than anyone else based on his size. Tons and tons of big men have been injury prone, think of the Lindros’s.

    While I agree that size is not the factor it was in the clutch and grab days I find it somewhat sad that we have gone to the other extreme that size doesn’t matter. Any time a certain player is mentioned the hackles go up! I believe what numerous pisters have siad with said player that it is unfair to place the expectations as hihgh as they are and that this young man should be allowed time for his body to mature. Snyde comments pertaining to Lucic as a physical deterent are uncalled for! Sometimes are passion for the Oilers comes out in an ucomplementary way! I appologize if I have offended any of you my Oiler family!

  104. Side says:

    pts2pndr: While I agree that size is not the factor it was in the clutch and grab days I find it somewhat sad that we have gone to the other extreme that size doesn’t matter. Any time a certain player is mentioned the hackles go up! I believe what numerous pisters have siad with said player that it is unfair to place the expectations as hihgh as they are and that this young man should be allowed time for his body to mature. Snyde comments pertaining to Lucic as a physical deterent are uncalled for! Sometimes are passion for the Oilers comes out in an ucomplementary way! I appologize if I have offended any of you my Oiler family!

    I didn’t make my comment to personally attack Lucic, so I’m not sure why you are taking it personally.

    My comment was directed at Richard S.S. who seems to have a fantasy that if Milan Lucic was on the team in McDavid’s first year, McDavid would not have been injured. As if the very presence of Lucic is what deters opposing players from hitting/hurting Oiler players. I don’t buy it.

    Yamamoto will be fine. Gaudreau and Martin St. Louis have missed less games than a lot of big men. I think the concern about size relating to injury is overblown.

  105. OriginalPouzar says:

    digger50: I’m sure many here can relate to dropping down a leage and expecting to be hot sh*t.

    Hockey, soccer, basketball.You drop a league and think you will clean up.Your timing is off, passes are ahead of everyone, speed is off, it’s just “different”

    It happens, and no big deal, but there is an adjustment period.

    Yes, I understand that and have acknowledged it – it seems that Kailer took longer than many/most to adjust – he struggled right up and till the World Juniors (and during the WJC). As it turns out, that was only 13 regular season games for Spokane, however, I still do think he had an uneven and inconsistent year.

    Again, I’m not down on the prospect at all – just don’t think that he exceeded expectations like Maksimov, Kemp, Skinner, etc. did.

  106. godot10 says:

    Lowetide: Trading Hall IS a fireable offense, but the Oilers chose not to do it. I could write about that everyday but doubt anyone would read it. All of that said, I have nothing personal against Peter Chiarelli, he brought Boston a Stanley, perhaps he’ll bring one to Edmonton.

    What’s important is stating facts as facts, as I believe I have done in this case.

    I would put it this way.

    If you trade Hall, you have to win and make the playoffs and contend consistently in the immediate aftermath and medium term future.

    If you stagnate or stall or go backwards, it is really unforgivable, and one deserves to be fired. And this is what Chiarelli, McLellan, and the old boys clubs have done.

    Katz has a problem because the old boys club is a permanent fixture, obfuscating who is accountable when “outsiders” are brought in to run things.

    Which leads to the position advocated by many pre-Chiarelli, that you have to FIRE THEM ALL, to be sure.

  107. godot10 says:

    Side:
    Yamamoto will be fine. Gaudreau and Martin St. Louis have missed less games than a lot of big men. I think the concern about size relating to injury is overblown.

    Gaudreau and St. Louis broke into the NHL on the other side of 20. Yamamoto still has a teenagers’ body.

  108. Nix says:

    rickithebear: It is real analysis driven by accountant (cap) approval.
    Removal of a high ratio, %, Acting human action, logic system action,
    That show a positive return in business.

    No complex flattened false regression analysis from individuals devoid understanding what high actor modification does in a capital (Cap) world..
    removals (system aproach)
    – HD ratio
    – fwd off pocession vs Rovers (Off d)
    – NZ trap.
    Replacement
    – what parts effective (+ve goal diff)
    – repeatable (low failure rate)

    RE: Russel break out.
    – is opps NZ trap set up
    – doaes d partner provide a return pass option.

    Hundredth post like this Ive tried to decode but all I see is “yall are too stupid to understand the data set I refuse to show.”
    Am I doing this right?

  109. anjinsan says:

    “…it is important to recognize the transactions that got us here and the author of those moves.”

    Owning an NHL franchise is a privilege because the home team market is going to trust you.

    They should be able to trust you to act in the home best interest and that extends to your agents, in particular your GM.

  110. Side says:

    godot10: Gaudreau and St. Louis broke into the NHL on the other side of 20.Yamamoto still has a teenagers’ body.

    What difference does a 19 year old body make compared to a 20 year old’s body, in terms of being injury resistant?

  111. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Gaudreau and St. Louis broke into the NHL on the other side of 20.Yamamoto still has a teenagers’ body.

    What does DeBrincat’s body look like?

    Oh, and, while MSL is a specimen (tree trunk legs), I’m thinking there is a fine line between Gaudreau’s body and a “teenager’ body”.

    The difference there is that Gaudreau avoids contact (which, in this circumstance, is likely a plus) whereas Yamamoto engages.

  112. Side says:

    Who was the last 18 or 19 year old that had a significant injury that could be attributed to having a “teenager” body?

  113. Professor Q says:

    Side: I didn’t make my comment to personally attack Lucic, so I’m not sure why you are taking it personally.

    My comment was directed at Richard S.S. who seems to have a fantasy that if Milan Lucic was on the team in McDavid’s first year, McDavid would not have been injured. As if the very presence of Lucic is what deters opposing players from hitting/hurting Oiler players. I don’t buy it.

    Yamamoto will be fine. Gaudreau and Martin St. Louis have missed less games than a lot of big men. I think the concern about size relating to injury is overblown.

    Same with Tyler Johnson and DeBrincat.

    The former three did take a bit in University Hockey and/or the IHL/AHL, sure, and that’s why I think Yamamoto should and will take a year or two in the AHL as well. Yes, even Theo Fleury had the benefit of an IHL season after his WHL career (of which he dominated in his last season), that being his 20-21 year-old season (late June birthday).

    DeBrincat both lucked out with team and position, as well as playing all 82 games of his 19-20 year-old rookie season (December birthday).

    Why not be patient with Yamamoto, with hopeful optimism yet cautious care and grooming? Nothing wrong with bringing him up fully in 2019-2020 or 2020-2021.

  114. Gerta Rauss says:

    Side:
    Who was the last 18 or 19 year old that had a significant injury that could be attributed to having a “teenager” body?

    Gilbert Brule was nearly broken in half* in his 2nd NHL game

    *blatant hyperbole

    https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/gilbert-brule-olympic-dream-1.4520305

    *edit-I have no dog in this fight- if Yamamoto is ready for the NHL, play him

  115. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: What does DeBrincat’s body look like?

    Oh, and, while MSL is a specimen (tree trunk legs), I’m thinking there is a fine line between Gaudreau’s body and a “teenager’ body”.

    The difference there is that Gaudreau avoids contact (which, in this circumstance, is likely a plus) whereas Yamamoto engages.

    Here’s hoping Yammo has bigger gonads than Gaudreau, watching Gaudreau bail time after time rather than try to make a play or maintain puck possession, I would be steamed if I was a Flicker fan.

  116. jp says:

    rickithebear:

    Larson hall trade = bad
    Yours is a trite non goal diff thinking view.

    And trite backwards naratives(MVP) are even worse.
    1. We have an interview we’re hall says he is finally listening to coaching.

    2. Halls last 2yr in EDM and first in NJ he was a
    69gm 20g 32A 52P -5 fwd
    This is the Hall we Had.
    We could use his 15evg 41 evp

    Are you seriously saying any mention of the MVP is a narrative? Hall finished top 10 in scoring both years previous to the window you’ve chosen to use. It’s not like we didn’t know Hall could be an elite player when the trade was made.

    rickithebear:

    Cup core trade value.Top 10 HD dmen 1 per 3 teams.
    The real good ones drag poorer HD dmens results up.
    See Larsson.

    Top 60 fwd 2 per every team.
    Hall was a 1.29 top 125 fwd and a wing.

    Larsson 6 times less availability per team.

    Is Larsson still a top 10 HD Dman though?

    He was 124th and 117th among Dmen in GA/60 the past two years (>500 min). His elite numbers were driven by his time in low scoring NJ. While there he was 5/7, 5/8, tied for 3/9, 2/8 and 1/7 on his team in GA/60. He was towards the top by the time he was traded, but at no point did he stand out from his teammates. Mark Fayne had sparkling numbers in Jersey too, that cratered in Edmonton.

    And Hall a top 60 forward? He’s 25th in scoring since he joined the league. 13th in points per game.

    I agree with your ideas here in theory, but I’m not at all sold on your interpretation. At all.

  117. Pescador says:

    Side:
    Who was the last 18 or 19 year old that had a significant injury that could be attributed to having a “teenager” body?

    RNH?

  118. Pescador says:

    Nix: Hundredth post like this Ive tried to decode but all I see is “yall are too stupid to understand the data set I refuse to show.”Am I doing this right?

    Not yall,
    just Woodguy

  119. Professor Q says:

    Pescador: RNH?

    That was essentially just freak incident, mostly the right (or wrong) angle and impact between shoulder and ice. No other player involved.

    RNH had a sturdy core even back then. Brenden Morrow went to nail him a few times in a game and Nuge kept knocking Morrow on his arse.

  120. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: The fact you have such a problem with me that you go out of your way to try and pick apart my posts, and now on multiple platforms, is very interesting.

    Nope, I didn’t scout him and have only seen him play internationally.

    As I said, I am absolutely fine with the bet on the player but I see no reasonable argument for a $2.5M cap hit.

    There is simply no comparable to justify such a contract.The KHL goalie of the year, a numbers of years younger, signed for $690K.

    Yup, he’s been great in the KHL and internationally – so were Curtis Sanford and Anders Nilsson – his numbers in the KHL line up with theirs generally.

    Sure, if the team was flush with cap space, maybe they could overpay for a one year deal on a potential back-up goalie, however, that is far far from the situation.

    Sure, there were other teams interested and I guess that was the “market cost” and, if that was the case, in my opinion that proper option was to walk away. It was April for crying out loud and there were numerous high end back-up goalies, established in the NHL, that were going to come on the market and be cheaper.

    I hope Koskinen is lights out, I hope he’s the next Kipper, however, there are numerous examples of high end KHL players, including goalies, where the success does not translate to the NHL.

    The GM committed an extra $1.5M to the back-up goalie position and may not have even improved it.

    Obviously the team does not want a goalie dilemma like they had for the first half of the season last year until Talbot got it together, and felt Koskinen was the man get the job done at all cost. Time will tell if it was a good move. No team can succeed without class A goal tending. What’s done is done, there is no use beating a dead horse about what shoulda, coulda or woulda been done. The reality is the team has no room to add any substantial pieces until they are able to rid themselves of at least one boat anchor contract, as $1.5M in today’s world won’t buy you the caliber of player they need.

  121. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: Marin St. Louis didn’t make the NHL till he was 24, with his full man strength (for a small man), and he had muscle on his frame.

    Yamamoto is still a boy with pretty much no muscular development or man strength.

    One shouldn’t expect too much of Yamamoto.A lot of smaller guys take a year or two to adjust to playing against men.

    I can’t agree. Yamamoto was quite muscular in photos at the draft and did well in testing. he’s just short and isn’t a tank like Domi senoir or St Louis built himself up to.

    St Louis is a body builder. Look up pics, he is a specimen. If Yama keeps training and developing what strength he can he’ll handle the rigours better. He should focus on not using his body to win battles but his brain and quickness, while developing strength which all pro athletes should.

    If there are muscular highly fit golfers, what excuse for a contact sport athlete is there now?

  122. Pescador says:

    pts2pndr:
    Basic rule Size matters! The math says so!

    So does my cheating ex whore of a girlfriend!
    I LOVED YOU STACY!!!!

  123. Pescador says:

    Professor Q: That was essentially just freak incident, mostly the right (or wrong) angle and impact between shoulder and ice. No other player involved.

    RNH had a sturdy core even back then. Brenden Morrow went to nail him a few times in a game and Nuge kept knocking Morrow on his arse.

    I remember. he tripped on the blueline.
    but it was widely debated/speculated that he broke his shoulder because he was not strong enough to be in the NHL to begin with.
    i admit that i half agreed, probably just frustrated with all the losing and that the org needing to run a 19 yr old out against the toughs night in night out with shitty wingers.
    fuck you Tambo,
    asshole

  124. jp says:

    pts2pndr: While I agree that size is not the factor it was in the clutch and grab days I find it somewhat sad that we have gone to the other extreme that size doesn’t matter. Any time a certain player is mentioned the hackles go up! I believe what numerous pisters have siad with said player that it is unfair to place the expectations as hihgh as they are and that this young man should be allowed time for his body to mature. Snyde comments pertaining to Lucic as a physical deterent are uncalled for! Sometimes are passion for the Oilers comes out in an ucomplementary way! I appologize if I have offended any of you my Oiler family!

    Numerous posters have said “he’s too small, he’ll be injured”. I don’t think there’s a lot of evidence that’s true. Others have said give him a year in the AHL to mature, but that’s said about every player who’s not a #1 overall. Many of the indicators from his 9 games last year showed he was exceptional on McDavid’s wing. If he can do that again, I say let him play, whatever his height and weight.

  125. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Obviously the team does not want a goalie dilemma like they had for the first half of the season last year until Talbot got it together, and felt Koskinen was the man get the job done at all cost. Time will tell if it was a good move. No team can succeed without class A goal tending. What’s done is done, there is no use beating a dead horse about what shoulda, coulda or woulda been done. The reality is the teamhas no room to add any substantial pieces until they are able to rid themselves of at least one boat anchor contract, as $1.5M in today’s world won’t buy you the caliber of player they need.

    I agree that the team does not want a goalie dilemma like last year, however, this move created absolute no certainty that such a situation won’t happen and may not have even improved the position over Montoya – the player has zero track record of success in the NHL and his comparables that have come over (based on numbers) are the likes of Curtis Sanford and Anders Nillson.

    Its not like the back-up goalie market was dwindling down and Chiarelli was getting desperate – it was April.

    I could get on board with the “what’s done is done” mantra and “not beating a dead horse” but I find that an ironic statement given the Hall/Larsson discussion currently happening. At least this is current.

    I’d much rather have an extra $1.5M right now than not, at least we’d be able to talk about a long term contract with Nurse or worry about bonus overage penalties for next year.

  126. Side says:

    Professor Q: Same with Tyler Johnson and DeBrincat.

    The former three did take a bit in University Hockey and/or the IHL/AHL, sure, and that’s why I think Yamamoto should and will take a year or two in the AHL as well. Yes, even Theo Fleury had the benefit of an IHL season after his WHL career (of which he dominated in his last season), that being his 20-21 year-old season (late June birthday).

    DeBrincat both lucked out with team and position, as well as playing all 82 games of his 19-20 year-old rookie season (December birthday).

    Why not be patient with Yamamoto, with hopeful optimism yet cautious care and grooming? Nothing wrong with bringing him up fully in 2019-2020 or 2020-2021.

    I am all for being patient with KY. I just don’t buy that if he’s ready, that he should be held back for arbitrary reasons people have such as “he has a teenager body” “he’s too small” “wait till he adds a few pounds”, etc.

    People seem to have a lot of opinions about whether is too small or not, but they never bring any legitimate medical or statistical evidence to show that a player can, in fact, be too small/too young to play in the NHL without getting hurt. Godot has already mentioned a “other side of 20” as an arbitrary line in the sand. I am curious to see how he came to that conclusion, and how it can apply to all hockey players that are like KY.

    It’s an incredibly “old school” way of thinking and is complimented by the obsession people have with big athletes.

  127. Professor Q says:

    Side: I am all for being patient with KY.I just don’t buy that if he’s ready, that he should be held back for arbitrary reasons people have such as “he has a teenager body” “he’s too small” “wait till he adds a few pounds”, etc.

    People seem to have a lot of opinions about whether is too small or not, but they never bring any legitimate medical or statistical evidence to show that a player can, in fact, be too small/too young to play in the NHL without getting hurt. Godot has already mentioned a “other side of 20” as an arbitrary line in the sand.I am curious to see how he came to that conclusion, and how it can apply to all hockey players that are like KY.

    It’s an incredibly “old school” way of thinking and is complimented by the obsession people have with big athletes.

    Yes, I agree.

    I think it’s mostly because while he’s been good, he hasn’t been All-World like McDavid so an AHL year for development (skills, systems, strategy, instinct, etc. all improving and getting up to speed). In my mind, that is, and shown by a few other players of similar circumstance (but if he’s ready and impresses, then watch out!).

    I’m not sure about empirical or significant analogue evidence either which way about the mass matter (tee, hee), as you say, and think Yamamoto has the body of a teenager simply due to him being a teenager. So I am agreed.

  128. Melvis says:

    Pescador: So does my cheating ex whore of a girlfriend!
    I LOVED YOU STACY!!!!

    Yeah. Now that it’s been mentioned: Janet, Michelle, Wanda, Bev, Jill, Barbie, Suzie, Barbie AND Suzie…sheesh

  129. JimmyV1965 says:

    blainer: The KHL is full of goalies with great numbers.. Scrivens included. Add to that the quality of the players and the ice size plus the number of very low scoring games as a result.. IMO you don’t have to be a scout to assess the risk of signing this player .. especially at that crazy number. A number which is most often paid out for goaltenders with an NHL history.

    We could have acquired a much better goalie to push Tabs such as Carter Hutton for an extra $250K.That would have been the smart play.

    I have watched quite a few highlights of Koskinen and IMO he reminds me a lot of the monster. Now I will admit I am no scout and never played in goal much but will say I do not have a good feeling on this move at all. I am the first to admit when i am wrong and have done so on this forum many times and you can count this as another time I hope I am wrong.

    Unfortunately I have also been right on some of my predictions such as Yak etc. I guess time will tell and you may be correct.. but boy the OIL sure have whiffed a lot on the goalie position. Just go back over the last ten years and review the goaltenders that were signed or were acquired ..

    The sad part is that a good portion of the management that made those decisions are still employed including the most recent add in Chia.

    I expect and hope you remind me that I was wrong on this call as if that happens i will be very happy we are winning games.

    Great Goaltending wins championships and gets the coach and GM awards as well. Lets hope they got this one right…

    Hutton is getting 2.75 for three years. That’s a much different number. And while he was .931 last year, the two years prior he was .913 and .918. There’s risk in that contract too.

  130. Side says:

    Professor Q: Yes, I agree.

    I think it’s mostly because while he’s been good, he hasn’t been All-World like McDavid so an AHL year for development (skills, systems, strategy, instinct, etc. all improving and getting up to speed). In my mind, that is, and shown by a few other players of similar circumstance (but if he’s ready and impresses, then watch out!).

    I’m not sure about empirical or significant analogue evidence either which way about the mass matter (tee, hee), as you say, and think Yamamoto has the body of a teenager simply due to him being a teenager. So I am agreed.

    I’ll be cheering like crazy for KY if they deem him ready and he gets to play in the NHL again.

    And if in his next game in the NHL he gets checked by a big man and injured, I’m going to groan loudly and prepare for the “I told you so” comments around here about KY being not physically ready. lol

  131. who says:

    Oilman99: Here’s hoping Yammo has bigger gonads than Gaudreau, watching Gaudreau bail time after time rather than try to make a play or maintain puck possession, I would be steamed if I was a Flicker fan.

    </blockquot
    We can only hope that KY becomes as good as Gaudreau.
    Avoiding contact and bailing on hits is how he stays in the lineup and puts up the numbers he does.
    Would you rather watch him go shoulder to shoulder against the player coming to check him? And if so how long do you expect him to last and how effective do you think he will be.
    Your comment makes no sense.

  132. OriginalPouzar says:

    Time will but there is the possibility that Yamamoto may have to change his game a bit in order to survive and succeed in the NHL.

    Guys like Gaudreau (and DeBrincat, granted only one season) have stayed healthy and excelled partially because they are good at avoiding contact and not putting themselves in dangerous situations and their body in danger.

    Yamamoto doesn’t play that style – he is tenacious and engages in contract. That is generally a great thing but there is the possibility that he will not be able to sustain that at the pro level. I’m not sure that is the case, maybe he will, only time will tell but he may need to learn to pick his spots a bit more at the next level.

  133. godot10 says:

    Side:
    Who was the last 18 or 19 year old that had a significant injury that could be attributed to having a “teenager” body?

    Robby Fabbri

  134. Side says:

    godot10: Robby Fabbri

    Fabbri is 5’10 and 195 pounds and was injured when he was 21. He also seems to be fairly injury prone, something not exclusive to “small men”.

    But to clarify, you don’t think 21 year old, 5’10, 195 pound Fabbri should have played for the Blues last season?

  135. godot10 says:

    Side: Fabbri is 5’10 and 195 pounds and was injured when he was 21. He also seems to be fairly injury prone, something not exclusive to “small men”.

    But to clarify, you don’t think 21 year old, 5’10, 195 pound Fabbri should have played for the Blues last season?

    Robby Fabbri wasn’t 195 when he was 18, and he was first injured late in training camp in one of the last pre-season games a few months after he was drafted after he had made the Blues. He has had three significant injuries. Missing half of the season after he was drafted, being injured late in training camp, and basically the last year and a half, plus missing 10 games in his other NHL season.

  136. Side says:

    godot10: Robby Fabbri wasn’t 195 when he was 18, and he was first injured late in training camp in one of the last pre-season games a few months after he was drafted after he had made the Blues. He has had three significant injuries.Missing half of the season after he was drafted, being injured late in training camp, and basically the last year and a half, plus missing 10 games in his other NHL season.

    So are you saying young prospects shouldn’t even be allowed to participate in training camp or pre-season games? Aren’t you always saying that pre-season games are meaningless and the quality of competition isn’t the same? Seems to me that Fabbri could be injury prone/unlucky and not a victim of “teenager body”.

    And are concussion/knee on knee on knee injuries something that only “small men” are a victim of?

  137. russ99 says:

    I’m cheering for a successful year, because:

    a) I’m a fan an I want the team to do well

    b) The people of Edmonton deserve a winner

    c) If it goes sideways, you know Katz will fire everyone not an old boy and put Wayne, his brother, MacTavish and Howson in charge.

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