Re-Make/Re-Model

As we get closer to training camp, we are (individually and as a group) deciding on the 2018-19 Edmonton Oilers. I’m at around 90 points, still pondering special teams, you may feel this team is stronger or weaker, and we’re rolling it around in our minds. There are things to like about this team: Cam Talbot should have a stronger season and if Mikko Koskinen struggles I imagine Peter Chiarelli will be quick to react. The defense should be healthy and that means better. Connor McDavid is the purest weapon in the galaxy. There is talent on this roster.

I keep coming back to one thing: The Edmonton Oilers when Connor McDavid is at rest.

THE ATHLETIC!

Give The Athletic as a gift or get it yourself and join the fun! Offer is here, less than $4 a month! I find myself reading both the hockey (Willis, Dellow, Pronman, et cetera) and the baseball coverage a lot, it’s a pure pleasure to visit. We’ll sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge.

  • Craig MacTavish: “The year we went to Cup final [2006] we had lots of guys who could contribute offensively and last year we really didn’t. We had a lot of one or two or zero goal scorers who were out there a really the best you could hope for was they were a non-negative factor. We have to let the core players continue to develop a and we have to build that supporting cast around them.”

MacT’s quote comes from 2013 summer, that was the shortened season. This isn’t perfect, there were injuries and Magnus Paajarvi didn’t play much early but came on as injuries piled up.

  • Taylor Hall [16]—Ryan Nugent-Hopkins [4]—Jordan Eberle [16]
  • Magnus Paajarvi [9]—Sam Gagner [14]—Nail Yakupov [17]
  • Ryan Jones [2]—Shawn Horcoff [7]—Ales Hemsky [9]
  • Ryan Smyth [2]—Eric Belanger [0]—Lennart Petrell [3]

Hemsky also played a lot with Gagner, and as MacT stated there were several players who couldn’t deliver much offense in 2012-13. The team scored 123 goals in 48 games (the average was 131), extrapolated over 82 games that’s a 210-goal season. Edmonton scored 229 this past season, league average was 244. In other words, the Oilers were missing a 15-goal scorer all season long compared to the rest of the league.

That 2012-13 team had other issues, reflected in the 5-on-5 GF-GA of the team’s centers. Shawn Horcoff (18-9), Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (24-23), Sam Gagner (28-33), Eric Belanger (5-8) and Ryan Smyth (12-17) all spent time at pivot, the often-maligned Horcoff and the Nuge representing the only two players in the black. Jerred Smithson (2-2) broke even after he came over at the deadline.

In 2016-17, Edmonton scored 16 more goals than average and allowed 20 fewer goals than average, while in 2017-18, Edmonton scored 15 fewer goals than average and allowed 18 more goals than average.

THE GRETZKY SALE

I used to watch him from the cheap seats (radio didn’t pay big money then) and took Jo several times while 99 was an Oiler. Watching him from high up gave you a unique view of Gretzky, who played the game about 20 frames ahead of everyone else. I know you know the records, but perhaps even more impressive was the total number of chances he would get in a game. It seemed the entire time he was on the ice, the opposition was in full sell out mode, just trying to avoid disaster. Crazy talent, crazy era. All you really need to know is that it was a sale, not a trade.

MCDAVID ON/OFF

We’ve run these numbers before, worth doing it again. The key for success in 2018-19 for the Oilers is closing the gap between McDavid’s shifts and everyone else’s. It is hockey’s Grand Canyon:

  • 2017-18 Oilers 5-on-5 GF-GA (percentage): 163-176 (48.08)
  • 2017-18 McDavid shifts 5-on-5 GF-GA (percentage): 81-61 (57.04)
  • 2017-18 Non-McDavid shifts 5-on-5 GF-GA (percentage): 82-115 (41.6)

It’s an absolutely searing set of statistics (via Natural Stat Trick) and drives home the issues on this hockey team. Let’s do shots on goal.

  • 2017-18 Oilers 5-on-5 Shots (percentage): 2179-2143 (50.42)
  • 2017-18 McDavid shifts 5-on-5 Shots (percentage): 816-739 (52.48)
  • 2017-18 Non-McDavid shifts 5-on-5 Shots (percentage): 1363-1404 (49.3)

A better total but not having 97 on the ice is going to hurt any team’s success. The importance of Leon Draisaitl’s line cannot be underestimated, but the wingers available for him are not strong options.

  • 2017-18 Leon Draisaitl 5-on-5 GF-GA (percentage): 59-61 (49.17)
  • 2017-18 Leon w/97 5-on-5 GF-GA (percentage): 31-23 (57.41)
  • 2017-18 Leon wo/97 5-on-5 GF-GA (percentage): 28-38 (42.42)

Draisaitl’s line without McDavid basically played like they were facing the McDavid line every shift based on goal share. If Leon struggles early, how long into the season before Todd McLellan puts them back together? Finally, Leon’s shots with and without, keeping in mind you’d like to have high quality linemates with him on a high-end skill line:

  • 2017-18 Leon Draisaitl 5-on-5 Shots (percentage): 663-579 (53.38)
  • 2017-18 Leon w/97 5-on-5 Shots (percentage): 325-255 (56.03)
  • 2017-18 Leon wo/97 5-on-5 Shots (percentage): 338-324 (51.06)

So Leon without McDavid (all Natural Stat Trick) is over 50 percent in shots on goal, the key is finishing and goals against. His most likely wingers are going to be Milan Lucic and Tobias Rieder. That will no doubt be the subject of much discussion during the 2018-19 season.

LOWDOWN WITH LOWETIDE

A busy morning, TSN1260 at 10. Scheduled to appear:

  • Corey Pronman, The Athletic. We’ll discuss the Hlinka-Gretzky and Corey’s current countdown of NHL farm systems.
  • Rob Vollman, ESPN and NHL.com. Darnell Nurse bridge contract, NHL.com previews and another brand new book for Rob is out today!
  • Jeff Hauser, Ralphie Report. We get the Lowdown on the Denver Broncos.

10-1260 text, @Lowdown on twitter. See you on the radio!

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140 Responses to "Re-Make/Re-Model"

  1. OriginalPouzar says:

    “There are things to like about this team: Cam Talbot should have a stronger season and if Mikko Koskinen struggles I imagine Peter Chiarelli will be quick to react. The defense should be healthy and that means better. Connor McDavid is the purest weapon in the galaxy. There is talent on this roster.”

    ————————————————-

    1) Talbot’s history in the NHL shows that last season was the clear outlier – his worst year as a pro. I know the stats show that his ES save percentage wasn’t far off and that it was the PK save percentage that was the killer but, to me, I go more on the eye test with goalies and from what I saw: (a) he simply didn’t make a big save when needed very often, (b) simply too many weak goals (and at weak times) and (c) he just didn’t look comfortable (I know the butterfly is the style but he was sliding around on his knees, and staying there, constantly).

    Anyways, confidence is a key and I think he’ll have a much better season. If he doesn’t, it really doesn’t matter what else happens.

    2) Here is hoping Koskinen is at least sold. We really have no idea what this guy is going to bring. Its nice to have Montoya as a plan B if things don’t work out (assuming he clears waivers)

    3) The healthier defence is simply massive. Sekera and Klefbom were shadows of themselves due to injury.

    Klefbom, from accounts, is healthier than he’s been in his entire time as an Oiler and we know Sekera will be healthier. He’s 8 months further removed from surgery (and it generally takes 12-18 months for the player to be back to 100%, lots of that is mental), will have a full summer to train and full training camp and, of course, no mobility limiting brace.

    Larsson too was banged up with that bad back in the first half of the season – he was great down the stretch and off the charts good at the Worlds.

    4) McDavid led the league in even strength scoring by 16 points over the second place (Giroux) – it was the most even strength points scored this century (one more than Henrik a number of years back and 5 more than Jagr in 2000/01) – just wait until he gets going on the PP.

  2. OriginalPouzar says:

    The 41 goals McDavid scored is impressive for a pass-first player but even moreso when one remembers that he really didn’t start shooting the puck until the last 3rd of the season. It’s like he just decided he wanted to score more goals. He finished the season at 1.34 G/60 at 5 on 5 but, for the last 20 games of the season, he was scoring goals at a rate of 2.15 G/60 and 2.3 G/60 in the last 10 games.

  3. OriginalPouzar says:

    Of course, there is no defending the Gretzky trade but I always like to note that:

    Jimmy Carson was traded for Adam Graves, Joe Murphy, Petr Klima and Jeff Sharples who was traded at the 1990 deadline to rent Rexi Ruotsalainen.

    4 guys that played key roles in the 1990 cup victory!

  4. dustrock says:

    I was 11 when Gretzky and it was really the first glimpse into the idea that sports could be a business.

    I saw grown men crying that day and I had never seen that kind of weird public grief before.

    I admire the fans who can embrace sports without reservation but I’ve always been a bit (Doug McLachlan: “a bit?!?”) cynical since that day.

    Of course the next time I felt that way about the Oilers was when Hall was traded.

  5. dustrock says:

    Now allow me to try to be a glass half-full guy by saying it is within the realm of possibility that this is the year that the Oilers explode, but that’s up to Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Benning and Nurse. Especially the wingers.

  6. 36 percent body fat says:

    was at the game last night, thoughts:

    1. a few months back i notice the swedish goalies stats. This kid is playing 25 games in the top swedish U20 league. He starte the year for the first month and a half as a 14 year old!! yes no typo. He is still only 15. Does not turn 16 until mid november. Had a save percentage of .928! Played very well against Canada Last night. Goals against were not his fault. At this level already even mediocre improvement year to year until he is 21 is going to produce a fine NHL starter.

    Alexander Holtz, another young player and not eligable for draft this year, was dominant as well. What a shot! He will be a top 10 pick in his draft year, and will dominate at this tournament next year. He and Lefreniere (not sure if eligable) will be battling for the scoring lead.

    Elmer Soderblom is a giant. just turned 16 and is 6’6″. I dont see size as something to base a player on but if he gets to 6’8″ 235 he is going to be drafted and given a shot. Probably by the bruins, flyers,or oilers for sure. Kind of a cherry picker and awkward skater but not slow.

    LAfrienier is good, reminds me of Schiefele but not sure if he will be as good, but close, maybe better. Remember people the number he is putting up is in the Q. I know people refer to Mckinnon and Crosby, but there are some differences. First Crosby is generational, Lafrenier is not. 2nd of all Mckinnon has a power to his game, and it took 3 to 4 years for his game to settle in. That is not a generational player. Also Drouin outscored him, and where is he. not even a star in the league yet. The kid needs to go to the OHL and be challenged more. The so called best goalies in the Q, (domingue fucale etc, dont even hit .900 save percentage. That means its pretty easy to score. Also not many top D come from the Q.

    Other than watching Mcdavid and draisaitl I would pretty much go watch these guy, and try to find out ways in which they will develop into nhl players, than watch half the oilers and wonder how they ever got into the nhl.

  7. who says:

    Just wanted to respond to your show yesterday LT. Specifically your discussion on Bartolo Colon.
    Heard you lamenting the return on him when the Expos traded him. What you should have been complaining about was the cost to acquire him.
    The Expos gave up 3 future all stars for a 2 month rental of Colon. Yes he was under contract for another year but everyone knew the Expos couldn’t afford him and would have to trade him. And yet they gave up Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips for him. It ranks right up there with the Randy Johnson deal as the worst Expo trade ever.
    It was the final nail in the Expos coffin.
    What really bugged me about it was that the GM, Manny Actra, basically used a dying Expos team to build his resume for possible future GM jobs. And he got away with it because he knew the Expos would be leaving Montreal and that no one would really care how badly he decimated the franchise. So he took the long shot gamble. I hate him to this day for that.
    Please don’t talk about the Expos anymore. It just opens old wounds. I thought I was over them.

  8. jtblack says:

    The Trade (sale).

    I was 14 yrs old and on a houseboat for 1 week. When I got off my parents picked me up. They told me Gretzky had been traded.

    I didn’t believe them.

    After them telling and re-telling me it was true, I had a long drive to think about it.

    Who would I cheer for? L.A. or Edm? Truth be told, I cheered for L.A.

    I didn’t come fully back on board with the Oilers til 1994.

  9. Wilde says:

    Corey Pronman! Excellent.

    Lowetide:

    “the Oilers were missing a 15-goal scorer all season long compared to the rest of the league”

    This is a really good way of putting that

    New video review: In which WE trap the MINNESOTA WILD?!

    https://petropraxis.blogspot.com/2018/08/sss-part-eight-march-10th-vs-min.html

  10. Wilde says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The 41 goals McDavid scored is impressive for a pass-first player but even moreso when one remembers that he really didn’t start shooting the puck until the last 3rd of the season. It’s like he just decided he wanted to score more goals. He finished the season at 1.34 G/60 at 5 on 5 but, for the last 20 games of the season, he was scoring goals at a rate of 2.15 G/60 and 2.3 G/60 in the last 10 games.

    His shots rate didn’t go up, though. He’s at 9.2/60 for the full season and was 9.0/60 in the last 20 games. He actually shot /less/ often. Just starting scoring on 24%.

  11. blainer says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    “There are things to like about this team: Cam Talbot should have a stronger season and if Mikko Koskinen struggles I imagine Peter Chiarelli will be quick to react. The defense should be healthy and that means better. Connor McDavid is the purest weapon in the galaxy. There is talent on this roster.”

    ————————————————-

    1) Talbot’s history in the NHL shows that last season was the clear outlier – his worst year as a pro.I know the stats show that his ES save percentage wasn’t far off and that it was the PK save percentage that was the killer but, to me, I go more on the eye test with goalies and from what I saw: (a) he simply didn’t make a big save when needed very often, (b) simply too many weak goals (and at weak times) and (c) he just didn’t look comfortable (I know the butterfly is the style but he was sliding around on his knees, and staying there, constantly).

    Anyways, confidence is a key and I think he’ll have a much better season.If he doesn’t, it really doesn’t matter what else happens.

    2) Here is hoping Koskinen is at least sold.We really have no idea what this guy is going to bring.Its nice to have Montoya as a plan B if things don’t work out (assuming he clears waivers)

    3) The healthier defence is simply massive. Sekera and Klefbom were shadows of themselves due to injury.

    Klefbom, from accounts, is healthier than he’s been in his entire time as an Oiler and we know Sekera will be healthier. He’s 8 months further removed from surgery (and it generally takes 12-18 months for the player to be back to 100%, lots of that is mental), will have a full summer to train and full training camp and, of course, no mobility limiting brace.

    Larsson too was banged up with that bad back in the first half of the season – he was great down the stretch and off the charts good at the Worlds.

    4) McDavid led the league in even strength scoring by 16 points over the second place (Giroux) – it was the most even strength points scored this century (one more than Henrik a number of years back and 5 more than Jagr in 2000/01) – just wait until he gets going on the PP.

    Just wondering what you think is a good save% number for Koskinen.

    Is it too lofty of a goal to hope for league average save% for a backup. This team will be a major contender for the cup if Tabs gets back to 16/17 levels and if Kosk can put up a 915% and play at least 20 games.

    Every year at this time it’s always about the goalies for me going into the season. Very risky bet on Koskinen to be sure. I would feel a little more optimistic about this move If Chia hadn’t signed the monster. Let’s hope he gets this one right..

  12. Kinger_Oil.redux says:

    jtblack,

    – between ben johnson stripped gold medal and gretz trade and jays not being to repeat and expos departure all in that period changed forever my relationship with sport

    – as for mact and his comment about guys stepping up in the cup run vs not performing thats it in a nutshell. When we win its whatever version of aberg caggs kharia reider that will have big years and outperform their contracts huge

  13. Bag of Pucks says:

    The Sale. My family always razzes me because when ever someone brings up ‘The Trade,’ I reflexively remind them that ‘It was a sale, not a trade!’

    Canadians are so polite. We look back on the sale and rationalize how it grew the game in the US and was ultimately good for the NHL as a whole. Eff that. I would take another 3 or 4 Cups (minimum) from the Oil all the live long day over Peter Puck treating the Great One like a used car.

    Depreciating asset. What a putz.

  14. godot10 says:

    You have to worry about the Edmonton Oilers with Connor McDavid on the ice also if they stick Rattie or Caggiula with him.

  15. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    The 41 goals McDavid scored is impressive for a pass-first player but even moreso when one remembers that he really didn’t start shooting the puck until the last 3rd of the season. It’s like he just decided he wanted to score more goals. He finished the season at 1.34 G/60 at 5 on 5 but, for the last 20 games of the season, he was scoring goals at a rate of 2.15 G/60 and 2.3 G/60 in the last 10 games.

    McDavid is only a pass first player if you play him with players who cannot pass the puck back to him.

    This “pass first” stuff is nonsense.

  16. commonfan29 says:

    Obviously there was a ton of cash involved, but calling it a sale I think does a bit of a disservice to the return Slats was able to get.

    On August 9, 1988, was there a more valuable young player in the game than Jimmy Carson?

    I’ll aways believe a couple of things:
    1. Eakins ruined Yakupov.
    2. Oiler fans ruined Carson.

  17. russ99 says:

    IMO, Leon is less the trouble and expecting players like Strome, Cagguila and to a lesser extent Puljujarvi and Yamamoto to contribute secondary offense is more the trouble.

    And yet, we’re back here again expecting the same players that didn’t step up last year to step up this year.

    The goals against drop 5×5 without McDavid is even more scary. Playing Nuge with McDavid may help the offense but it also takes a two-way weapon from another line that needs it.

  18. 31saves says:

    I firmly believe the Oilers would have competed for Stanleys up to and including 1995-96. and potentially much longer with proper development and scouting. keeping that core together you had:

    1.Gretzky enjoying another dominant year, and the last year he put up over 100 points
    2. Grant Fuhr having a dominant year, playing 79 consecutive games and getting Vezina consideration for the first time in years.
    3. Anderson, Huddy, Tikkanen and MacTavish playing on that blues team that was performing very well.
    4. Beukeboom and Lowe having very good years in New york while Messier dominated their scoring race.

    This isn’t even including somebody like Kurri who was clearly winding down, or Coffey who had asked out of Edmonton even before Gretzky left. The core of that 80s team was long in the tooth but their talent would have carried them and the Oilers to considerable Stanley cup consideration utnil at least 1996, and then if some proper drafting had been able to fill in the cracks and find eventual replacements then who knows!

  19. Woogie63 says:

    At this stage of the recovery from the Lowe years. We have;

    2 skilled lines – RNH-McDavid- Yama – Lucic-Draisaitl-JP
    4 skilled dmen – Klefbom-Nurse-Larsson-Sekera

    Useful spare parts – Strome, Brodzack, Kassian, Reider, Russell, Benning
    Some good drafting – maybe

    Current goalies – are really up in the air and this why PC invested in a real 1B

  20. Bag of Pucks says:

    commonfan29:
    Obviously there was a ton of cash involved, but calling it a sale I think does a bit of a disservice to the return Slats was able to get.

    On August 9, 1988, was there a more valuable young player in the game than Jimmy Carson?

    I’ll aways believe a couple of things:
    1. Eakins ruined Yakupov.
    2. Oiler fans ruined Carson.

    Maybe I’m looking back through rose coloured glasses, but at the time it seemed Oiler fans were largely supportive of Jimmy Carson. I think the issue there is it’s a complete no-win situation to be traded for the GOAT and likely every player in his right mind will do everything possible to distance himself from that comparison as soon as possible.

    Fortunately Slats salvaged the situation with the trade with Detroit that was absolute highway robbery for the home team. Seriously – Murphy, Graves, and Klima in one fell swoop? Glen Sather – the original Magnificent Bastard.

  21. godot10 says:

    31saves:
    I firmly believe the Oilers would have competed for Stanleys up to and including 1995-96. and potentially much longer with proper development and scouting. keeping that core together you had:

    1.Gretzky enjoying another dominant year, and the last year he put up over 100 points
    2. Grant Fuhr having a dominant year, playing 79 consecutive games and getting Vezina consideration for the first time in years.
    3. Anderson, Huddy, Tikkanen and MacTavish playing on that blues team that was performing very well.
    4. Beukeboom and Lowe having very good years in New york while Messier dominated their scoring race.

    This isn’t even including somebody like Kurri who was clearly winding down, or Coffey who had asked out of Edmonton even before Gretzky left. The core of that 80s team was long in the tooth but their talent would have carried them and the Oilers to considerable Stanley cup consideration utnil at least 1996, and then if some proper drafting had been able to fill in the cracks and find eventual replacements then who knows!

    Gretzky was only signed for 4 or 5 more years when he was traded. In every renegotiation of his contract with Pocklington, he had shortened the duration of his contract from the 1999 end date, and he had negotiated to be a complete unrestricted free agent at the end of those 4 or 5 years. That was all that was left in any case. It never would have lasted till the mid-nineties. He didn’t shorten his contract and negotiate unrestricted free agency if he was planning to stay.

    It was that UFA clause that was freaking Pocklington out. He had desperate money troubles, and was now facing losing his prime asset in 5 years for nothing.

    Also, Pocklington really didn’t have the money at that point…see Melnyk in Ottawa, and Pocklington was in much worse shape. He couldn’t afford to keep the dynasty core together…certainly not at the salaries Gretzky and Messier would require.

  22. bendelson says:

    Hey folks. Not intending to derail the thread but there was an incident the other day that I can’t seem to shake… and perhaps this will help.

    On the weekend, my wife and I were walking the dogs in our community – on leash. We passed a couple that was playing with their bulldog in their front yard and exchanged pleasantries as we walked by… they had hold of their dog, who was off leash. Maybe a minute later, said bulldog was running down the sidewalk, coming at us, with no owner in sight. The dog showed aggression as he approached, which sent our dogs into a frenzy. The bulldog attacked, taking multiple runs at both our dogs. In the chaos, my wife got tangled in the leashes and went down hard on the sidewalk. I reacted and went after the bulldog, and dragged him away (with prejudice) by his collar. Thankfully, the dog didn’t turn on me. It was only then that the dogs owner walked up (sauntered would be a better descriptor), casually grabbed his dog and preceded to walk away. No apology, no explanation, and no inquiry as to whether my wife (on the ground with bulldog spittle all over her arms and shoulders) or dogs were injured. Not a fucking word. Rather than allow the adrenaline, now coursing though my body, to take over and have me do something stupid, I instead focused on my wife and dogs. Thankfully, it appeared, everyone would be OK. That said, this incident has continued ‘hang around’ the recesses of my mind ever since…

    Whew.
    Deep breath.
    Thank you for allowing me to vent… and thank Gord it wasn’t a pit bull.

  23. meanashell11 says:

    Sorry my friend but do not say that about pit bulls.

    I am very happy everyone is alright.

    I have no idea why that dog attacked but it has nothing to do with pit bulls. Like most things, pets reflect their owners. Pit bulls are some of the most friendly and safe dogs out there. Do not paint them all with one brush.

  24. Bag of Pucks says:

    bendelson:
    Hey folks.Not intending to derail the thread but there was an incident the other day that I can’t seem to shake… and perhaps this will help.

    On the weekend, my wife and I were walking the dogs in our community – on leash.We passed a couple that was playing with their bulldog in their front yard and exchanged pleasantries as we walked by…they had hold of their dog, who was off leash.Maybe a minute later, said bulldog was running down the sidewalk, coming at us, with no owner in sight.The dog showed aggression as he approached, which sent our dogs into a frenzy.The bulldog attacked, taking multiple runs at both our dogs.In the chaos, my wife got tangled in the leashes and went down hard on the sidewalk.I reacted and went after the bulldog, and dragged him away (with prejudice) by his collar.Thankfully, the dog didn’t turn on me.It was only then that the dogs owner walked up (sauntered would be a better descriptor), casually grabbed his dog and preceded to walk away.No apology, no explanation, and no inquiry as to whether my wife (on the ground with bulldog spittle all over her arms and shoulders) or dogs were injured.Not a fucking word.Rather than allow the adrenaline, now coursing though my body, to take over and have me do something stupid, I instead focused on my wife and dogs.Thankfully, it appeared, everyone would be OK.That said, this incident has continued ‘hang around’ the recesses of my mind ever since…

    Whew.
    Deep breath.
    Thank you for allowing me to vent… and thank Gord it wasn’t a pit bull.

    I’m glad you shared because I can definitely relate. My wife was walking our dog last week (he’s a friendly mutt with a lot of Rhodesian Ridgeback in him). They came across a fellow with a pitbull that they’ve encountered a number of times before without incident. Unfortunately, this time around when the dogs took to sniffing hello, out of the blue, the Pitbull snapped and attacked our dog. My wife and the other dog’s owner jumped in to separate them and in the process, my wife broke her finger and sprained her wrist, and the pitbull owner nearly had his thumb tore off. Both dogs were relatively unharmed.

    Kudos have to be given to the pitbull’s owner for his response both during and after the attack, but I do have to question the wisdom and prudence of owning these dogs that were bred to fight. We were told previously the pitbull was a former fighting dog that had been ‘rescued’ but clearly in this case not ‘rehabilitated.’

    As human beings, I wonder if we don’t overrate our abilities a tad in thinking that we can act as pack leader to an animal with centuries of breeding for aggression? Given the bite strength these animals have, it does seem akin to putting loaded weapons on the street.

  25. dustrock says:

    meanashell11:
    Sorry my friend but do not say that about pit bulls.

    I am very happy everyone is alright.

    I have no idea why that dog attacked but it has nothing to do with pit bulls. Like most things, pets reflect their owners. Pit bulls are some of the most friendly and safe dogs out there. Do not paint them all with one brush.

    In a vacuum, you’re completely right. Could say the same about German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans.

    But many of the pitbulls do have douchey owners or are rescues from douchey owners, as mentioned above.

    The danger is that they are bred to fight and are so strong for their size that it’s hard to stop them once they attack.

  26. Side says:

    meanashell11:
    Sorry my friend but do not say that about pit bulls.

    I am very happy everyone is alright.

    I have no idea why that dog attacked but it has nothing to do with pit bulls. Like most things, pets reflect their owners. Pit bulls are some of the most friendly and safe dogs out there. Do not paint them all with one brush.

    I don’t think he was commenting on the behaviour of pit bulls, I think what he was implying was he was glad it wasn’t a pit bull because pit bull’s have incredibly strong bites and it could have been a lot worse if it were a pit bull biting his wife/dogs.

    Or, that’s my impression at least.

    In my top 10 list of dogs I don’t want to be bitten by, pit bull’s are in the top 3.

  27. dustrock says:

    I will shut my yap after this but I am disappointed by many, many dog owners, who seem to think there is nothing to the process beyond feeding and taking the dog for an occasional walk. No discipline. No socialization. No understanding of dog behavior. Not enough confidence to be a dog owner.

    I have put in hundreds of hours with my dogs, particularly our new puppy, but even our old guys needed reinenforcement.

  28. Melvis says:

    But I will say it again. How did Paul Allen know?

    For the same reasons I knew, but I’ll get to that in a moment. The short answer. Intuition and my neck hairs standing on end. In terms of an explanation and remake and remodel, I’m “In the Mood” today.

    https://www.smu.edu.sg/perspectives/2017/09/29/sports-analytics-why-your-favourite-team-knows-more-about-you-you-think

    Thanks VOR.

    I think the link warrents a repeat for those who are not only interested in player and team data and analytics, but also for those who are interested in “event” data. I tend to view these various aspects of info gathering as interdependent and somewhat Janus faced, but more so, 3D squared, multi-faced multi-disciplinary pursuits.

    Personal experience since high school has me far more experienced in the event aspects of the phenomena, for lack of a better term. It comprises a much more significant aspect of my professional background since high school. I say this as a once nascent, entrepreneurally minded kid who had already cooked up and promoted about a hundred shows prior to grade 12 – as a social director in school, on my own dime as a musician, and as a member of a youth group taking full advantage of the local rec centre every saturday night for three years of local band blasts.

    Be careful of what you wish for. About two years later, I was drafted on the floor of Maple Leaf Gardens before being sent to the bigs. That was the afternoon of Dec.31, 1973. Within ten days, I had moved to LA . I had less than a week of reclimatization from 40 below Saskatoon, to 85 degree Socal. Then almost immediately plunged into a dozen sold out east coast college dates. I have a sneaking suspicion of what JP was going through. The difference being, I could speak the language and got treated a little better. Off the top of my head, this one area where a consulting group could step in.

    The first LA friends made that day – Jeff Porcaro, David Paich, David Hungate, Louie Shelton. Those guys played on more than 5000 albums. Those albums resulted in more than 225 Grammy nominations and more than half a billion in record sales. Members of that crew essentially comprised the house band on Thriller – the biggest selling LP of all time. And when in town, we we rubbed shoulders on a daily basis. This is the point at which K Lowe might step in with the “we know something about winning.” Insert smiley face.

    Kevin, some introspection, puleeze. All that shit in the previous paragraph is only there to remind you of it’s blinding effects to the here and now, fer fucks sake.

    More in a moment.

  29. hunter1909 says:

    OriginalPouzar: It’s like he just decided he wanted to score more goals.

    More like he got tired of passing to dolts who can’t score so he had to start scoring himself.

  30. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: Slats salvaged the situation with the trade with Detroit that was absolute highway robbery for the home team. Seriously – Murphy, Graves, and Klima in one fell swoop? Glen Sather – the original Magnificent Bastard.

    Slats had the luxury of knowing who his top stars were. Every season he’d manage to trade whatever he had lying around to shore up some area that guaranteed endless success. Incredible horse trader.

  31. McNuge93 says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    The Sale. My family always razzes me because when ever someone brings up ‘The Trade,’ I reflexively remind them that ‘It was a sale, not a trade!’

    Canadians are so polite. We look back on the sale and rationalize how it grew the game in the US and was ultimately good for the NHL as a whole. Eff that. I would take another 3 or 4 Cups (minimum) from the Oil all the live long day over Peter Puck treating the Great One like a used car.

    Depreciating asset. What a putz.

    Agree it was a financial trade not a hockey trade. Fans back then were so emotionally tied to the Oilers. I know it affected me for weeks, even more so than the loss to Calgary in 86. I stayed a fan and that 1990 cup really took some of the sting out of the trade. I find I can’t get as emotionally attached to the Oilers as I was back then. Maybe it’s old age, or maybe the last 12 years has wrung any emotion out of us.

  32. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: I’m glad you shared because I can definitely relate. My wife was walking our dog last week (he’s a friendly mutt with a lot of Rhodesian Ridgeback in him). They came across a fellow with a pitbull that they’ve encountered a number of times before without incident. Unfortunately, this time around when the dogs took to sniffing hello, out of the blue, the Pitbull snapped and attacked our dog. My wife and the other dog’s owner jumped in to separate them and in the process, my wife broke her finger and sprained her wrist, and the pitbull owner nearly had his thumb tore off. Both dogs were relatively unharmed.

    Kudos have to be given to the pitbull’s owner for his response both during and after the attack, but I do have to question the wisdom and prudence of owning these dogs that were bred to fight. We were told previously the pitbull was a former fighting dog that had been ‘rescued’ but clearly in this case not ‘rehabilitated.’

    As human beings, I wonder if we don’t overrate our abilities a tad in thinking that we can act as pack leader to an animal with centuries of breeding for aggression? Given the bite strength these animals have, it does seem akin to putting loaded weapons on the street.

    Hate to be a jerk, but if you get any “rescued” animal you’re gambling on things you have no control over.

  33. hunter1909 says:

    meanashell11: Pit bulls are some of the most friendly and safe dogs out there.

    Maybe for their owners.

    Dog owners = delusional to the extreme.

    “Oh, he won’t bite” I’ve been told dozens of times, as I prepared myself for getting a set of teeth planted in my leg.

  34. Gerta Rauss says:

    hunter1909: “Oh, he won’t bite” I’ve been told dozens of times, as I prepared myself for getting a set of teeth planted in my leg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o

  35. BONE207 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    “There are things to like about this team: Cam Talbot should have a stronger season and if Mikko Koskinen struggles I imagine Peter Chiarelli will be quick to react. The defense should be healthy and that means better. Connor McDavid is the purest weapon in the galaxy. There is talent on this roster.”

    ————————————————-

    2) Here is hoping Koskinen is at least sold.

    Man…I thought you only hated Brad Malone. Ha…

  36. hunter1909 says:

    I live in a city where dog owners have to pick up their shit so the dogs have been getting smaller and smaller over the past years.

    Eventually they’re going to have tiny little dogs and then the birds of prey will start making the news as they swoop down, grab little “fifi” with sharp claws then fly away to feed the kiddies with the family pet.

  37. meanashell11 says:

    dustrock: In a vacuum, you’re completely right. Could say the same about German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans.

    But many of the pitbulls do have douchey owners or are rescues from douchey owners, as mentioned above.

    The danger is that they are bred to fight and are so strong for their size that it’s hard to stop them once they attack.

    I do not want to hijack the thread(!) so I will not respond to all the dog comments but I think this one makes sense to add this here: https://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

    As I said and others have agreed, it is mostly the owners. We have a pit bull mix and a sweeter dog could not be found. When I walk him, people seem to think it’s a good idea to stick their faces down in his, or let their dogs run up and start sniffing. Just don’t. Everybody walk on by and all good!

    Go Oilers! Clap Clap!!!

  38. hunter1909 says:
  39. BONE207 says:

    LT…As we get closer to training camp, we are (individually and as a group) deciding on the 2018-19 Edmonton Oilers. I’m at around 90 points, still pondering special teams, you may feel this team is stronger or weaker, and we’re rolling it around in our minds

    LT, you know we can’t predict these things until Hunter puts up his contest. That’s when the rubber hits the road.

  40. hunter1909 says:

    McNuge93: Agree it was a financial trade not a hockey trade. Fans back then were so emotionally tied to the Oilers. I know it affected me for weeks, even more so than the loss to Calgary in 86. I stayed a fan and that 1990 cup really took some of the sting out of the trade. I find I can’t get as emotionally attached to the Oilers as I was back then. Maybe it’s old age, or maybe the last 12 years has wrung any emotion out of us.

    Lowe+MacT put Oilers fans though the hockey equivalent of Room 101.

    Whether they have stopped is still highly debatable, given some of the bonehead moves since that fateful day when Ralph Kreuger turned his Skype on.

  41. Melvis says:

    hunter1909,

    My cat Alistair (Alliecat) was an eight week old rescue. That was a little over two years ago . And since then, I’ve dropped over $2500 on vet visits and top shelf food on my “best friend”. Do the research and be prepared for the unknown.

  42. meanashell11 says:

    hunter1909:
    I live in a city where dog owners have to pick up their shit so the dogs have been getting smaller and smaller over the past years.

    Eventually they’re going to have tiny little dogs and then the birds of prey will start making the news as they swoop down, grab little “fifi” with sharp claws then fly away to feed the kiddies with the family pet.

    This happens all the time. I was speaking to a guy in Minneapolis and he said one year dogs were disappearing. A lot of eagles around his parts. In the fall they had some bad wind storms and the eagles nests were blown around. A lot of collars were suddenly discovered! In another case, friends were on an Alaskan cruise with another couple who had a very small dog they brought everywhere. They were on deck watching the beautiful eagles then one swooped down and took fido right out of her arms….. I wont tell what their last vision was of fido to protect the innocent.

  43. Bag of Pucks says:

    hunter1909: Hate to be a jerk, but if you get any “rescued” animal you’re gambling on things you have no control over.

    I take zero offense to this. Our dog was a rescue and it’s a big challenge. Our dog had some obvious behavioural issues as a result of his previous owner and it takes a LOT of patience, love and trust to get to the point where the animal is well adjusted. And even then, stress can bring out their old anxieties. They’re a lot like humans in this way! ; )

    I would only recommend the rescue route for experienced dog owners or for smaller breeds. Taking on a larger breed with no experience is a recipe for disaster imo.

    For us the biggest thing is lots and lots of exercise. The more walks our hound gets, the happier he is. Unless of course another dog is attacking him on said walk!

  44. Oil2Oilers says:

    A persistent thought of mine all summer has been ‘if Benning can be a serviceable 2nd pair RHD this year the Oilers will be OK’

    Now that hope of the Lucic anchor contract being moved is gone my new persistent thought is ‘if Lucic can have one more year as a serviceable 2nd line winger the Oilers will be OK’

    RNH-McDavid-Puljujarvi
    Lucic-Draisaitl-Rieder
    Kharia-Strome-Aberg
    Caggiula-Brodziak-Kassian

    Kassian being able to swap up to Aberg spot when a heavy hockey night is required. Draisaitl moving in the Puljujarvi’s spot when they are chasing the game late.

  45. hunter1909 says:

    Melvis:
    hunter1909,

    My cat Alistair (Alliecat) was an eight weekold rescue. That was a little over two years ago . And since then, I’ve dropped over $2500 on vet visits and top shelf food on my “best friend”.Do the research and be prepared for the unknown.

    At least you get to have a friend. My bar tab is more than that.

  46. Side says:

    hunter1909: Maybe for their owners.

    Dog owners = delusional to the extreme.

    “Oh, he won’t bite” I’ve been told dozens of times, as I prepared myself for getting a set of teeth planted in my leg.

    My dog is up there in years now, and he has some health problems which I think make him a bit ornery towards strangers now.

    People come up to ask me if they can pet my dog, I say “no, he’s not very friendly anymore and may snap”

    But people still take their chances…

  47. hunter1909 says:

    meanashell11: This happens all the time. I was speaking to a guy in Minneapolis and he said one year dogs were disappearing. A lot of eagles around his parts. In the fall they had some bad wind storms and the eagles nests were blown around. A lot of collars were suddenly discovered! In another case, friends were on an Alaskan cruise with another couple who had a very small dog they brought everywhere. They were on deck watching the beautiful eagles then one swooped down and took fido right out of her arms….. I wont tell what their last vision was of fido to protect the innocent.

    Eagles are bad ass birds! Actually most people don’t understand just how good birds are at fighting. Think of it: You are handed a pair of razor sharp claws a beak that can easily pierce a tin can; then for the coup de grace you get a pair of freaking wings! I’d be terrified of a budgie gone wild.

  48. hunter1909 says:

    Side: My dog is up there in years now, and he has some health problems which I think make him a bit ornery towards strangers now.

    People come up to ask me if they can pet my dog, I say “no, he’s not very friendly anymore and may snap”

    But people still take their chances…

    I went through a spell where so many dogs took a dislike to me. So I’ve spent the last 2 years trying to mend my anti-dog vibe. It worked.

    Now whenever I see a dog approach I pretend to relax. The dog understands my effort and relaxes along with me.

    I even tried carrying mints around to bribe them with, until I discovered the owners end up talking to me and I dont want to talk to them past the “nice dog” part.

  49. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: I take zero offense to this. Our dog was a rescue and it’s a big challenge. Our dog had some obvious behavioural issues as a result of his previous owner and it takes a LOT of patience, love and trust to get to the point where the animal is well adjusted. And even then, stress can bring out their old anxieties. They’re a lot like humans in this way! ; )

    I would only recommend the rescue route for experienced dog owners or for smaller breeds. Taking on a larger breed with no experience is a recipe for disaster imo.

    For us the biggest thing is lots and lots of exercise. The more walks our hound gets, the happier he is. Unless of course another dog is attacking him on said walk!

    Admittedly I’m not a nice person, who loves all living things.

  50. bendelson says:

    meanashell11,

    Go Oilers! Clap Clap!!!

  51. Bag of Pucks says:

    hunter1909: Admittedly I’m not a nice person, who loves all living things.

    You can’t hug a shark.

  52. Bank Shot says:

    When talking about McDavid and his effect when he’s off the ice it really drives the point home that the Oilers have lacked a forward with skill that plays in the heart of the order that really cares about playing both sides of the puck.

    I think they have lacked that player since Horcoff. RNH is diligent, but I think he sort of lacks the temperament to be a great two way player. He’s too passive and disappears for games at a stretch.

    Those players are rare, but all the best teams have them. Hopefully the Oilers can draft/ trade for one soon.

  53. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: You can’t hug a shark.

    That killer whale show in Vancouver made me want to throw up. Of all the stupid things to do with a majestic beast.

  54. hunter1909 says:

    Bank Shot: Hopefully the Oilers can draft/ trade for one soon.

    Oh great.

    Another white whale to start hunting for.

    j/k

    *runs away*

  55. Melvis says:

    hunter1909: Admittedly I’m not a nice person, who loves all living things.

    My neighbours hate me. I ‘ve had the bylaw officers warn (twice), fine, and finally remove their un- cared for Rotweiler and German Shepard mix guard dogs. Barking morning, noon and all night. Filthy yards. Followed by breakouts and personal attacks in my yard. And I don’t live in the sticks. Enough already.

    I like dogs as much as cats. I hate the irresponsible asshole owners of these animals.

  56. bendelson says:

    Well this thread certainly went to the dogs…
    My apologies, LT.

  57. hunter1909 says:

    Melvis: My neighbours hate me. I ‘ve had the bylaw officers warn (twice), fine, and finally remove their un- cared for Rotweiler and German Shepard mix guard dogs. Barking morning, noon and all night. Filthy yards. Followed by breakoutsand personal attacks in my yard. And I don’t live in the sticks. Enough already.

    I like dogs as much as cats. I hate the irresponsible assholeowners of these animals.

    Next time make sure you throw a few cookies at them. Or chocolate. When they’re still in their own yard.

    That way, when they do manage to break out they wag their tails instead of their jaws.

  58. Bag of Pucks says:

    Melvis: My neighbours hate me. I ‘ve had the bylaw officers warn (twice), fine, and finally remove their un- cared for Rotweiler and German Shepard mix guard dogs. Barking morning, noon and all night. Filthy yards. Followed by breakoutsand personal attacks in my yard. And I don’t live in the sticks. Enough already.

    I like dogs as much as cats. I hate the irresponsible assholeowners of these animals.

    I’ve always liked the idea of a Prison Planet. I don’t know who would all go there, the logistics of building it, or the costs, but I like the idea of it : )

  59. hunter1909 says:

    Bag of Pucks: I’ve always liked the idea of a Prison Planet. I don’t know who would all go there, the logistics of building it, or the costs, but I like the idea of it : )

    How do you know we’re not already on it?

  60. Psyche says:

    bendelson:
    Well this thread certainly went to the dogs…
    My apologies, LT.

    If you’re going to discuss something other than hockey, dogs are a top shelf topic. I have labs and I always turn down requests from strangers to pet them. Labs are friendly, great bird-dogs, and awesome family dogs. But, they are still dogs, leaving an unpredictability to their behaviours when surprised or startled. I’d hate to have one of them get put down because I let a stranger get too close – and the interaction didn’t go as hoped.

  61. Scungilli Slushy says:

    godot10: Gretzky was only signed for 4 or 5 more years when he was traded.In every renegotiation of his contract with Pocklington, he had shortened the duration of his contract from the 1999 end date, and he had negotiated to be a complete unrestricted free agent at the end of those 4 or 5 years.That was all that was left in any case.It never would have lasted till the mid-nineties.He didn’t shorten his contract and negotiate unrestricted free agency if he was planning to stay.

    It was that UFA clause that was freaking Pocklington out.He had desperate money troubles, and was now facing losing his prime asset in 5 years for nothing.

    Also, Pocklington really didn’t have the money at that point…see Melnyk in Ottawa, and Pocklington was in much worse shape.He couldn’t afford to keep the dynasty core together…certainly not at the salaries Gretzky and Messier would require.

    The oilers make money. He could have kept them together if he wasn’t using them as a cash cow for his misadventures. He would have never done it but he could have.

  62. hunter1909 says:

    Psyche: If you’re going to discuss something other than hockey, dogs are a top shelf topic. I have labs and I always turn down requests from strangers to pet them. Labs are friendly, great bird-dogs, and awesome family dogs. But, they are still dogs, leaving an unpredictability to their behaviours when surprised or startled. I’d hate to have one of them get put down because I let a stranger get too close – and the interaction didn’t go as hoped.

    At my local park there’s a border collie that likes to bring people things to throw so it can fetch whatever it is carrying…old water bottles, junk like that. It’s decided I’m game so every time I go to the park there’s a great chance this dog will appear hoping I’ll throw whatever slobbering mess he’s given me. Two or three times. Then he moves onto the next sucker in the park.

  63. SwedishPoster says:

    On pitbulls.

    A dog takes a lot of work and knowledge.

    A dog is a terrible way to enlarge your penis.

  64. meanashell11 says:

    SwedishPoster:
    On pitbulls.

    A dog takes a lot of work and knowledge.

    A dog is a terrible way to enlarge your penis.

    Are those Swedish folk sayings?

  65. SwedishPoster says:

    36 percent body fat,

    Söderblom is one of the more interesting swedish prospects in a fairly weak 2019 draft for Sweden, he’s massive, I actually think he is closer to 6’7, but enough skill to be about more than just that. Like all tall teenagers he’s awkward at times but once he grows into his body there could be something there. Jacob Grönhagen, another 2019 pick, is of similar size but going into the season a lesser skillset.

  66. Melvis says:

    Where was I?

    Alex Frame, the executive producer of This Country in the Morning, and Morningside asked me for a position paper on the talent needs and production segments for Gzowski’s not so great late television entry ,Ninety Minutes Live. What a debacle that was.

    Everything in that paper was totally ignored by the head of night time progaramming at the CBC at that time. He actuallly thought he was a creative, Harvard MBA graduate that he was. So it goes with the CBC-TV – then now and forever. Bureaucratic stodge and malaise. “Write a couple of papers and wait a couple of years.I Ilike my job just the it is, just fine.”

    The greatest impediment to implementing innovatiive ideas to hockey lies in the above example.This historic reluctance in terms of seen it good…Gzowski as Canada’s answer to Johnny Carson, etc.

    I met Carson. No he was’t. A three piece grey pinstripe who couldn’t look the camera in eye? Not even close.

    I could go on and on. But I’m running out of steam and it’s a nice day in August. I’ll spend it outside, thinking about putting asses in seats in Florida, because a winning team in Tampa doesn’t entirely reflect those audience number outcomes.

    As for that first paragraph way up above, I was cooling my heels in Saratoga Springs for a week listening to a demo a music publisher had sent me. Hall and Oates. They were a thing regionally on the east coast but hadn’t broken out nationally. In fact, Tavares hadhad a hit with “She’s Gone”.

    Rich Girl, before it broke out more than a year later.

    “Al, it’s a hit”.

    “Ummm, I don’t think so.”

    One hit wonder expert, Al Wilson. Maybe two, if you count that Lou Rawls cover, The Snake from ’69.

    So what’s stopping anybody from putting a drone over a junior or AHL practice and having Wilde or someone scrubbing the vid?

    I’m not getting into it. No point. Apple will feature content grabbing in my next Mac.

  67. SwedishPoster says:

    meanashell11: Are those Swedish folk sayings?

    It’s in the constitution.

  68. godot10 says:

    Bag of Pucks: I’ve always liked the idea of a Prison Planet. I don’t know who would all go there, the logistics of building it, or the costs, but I like the idea of it : )

    We are building a Prison Planet here. Neofeudalism is the new economic model.

  69. Melvis says:

    Bottle of wine, fruit of the vine
    When you gonna let me get sober
    Leave me alone, let me go home
    I wann’a go back and start over

  70. Melvis says:

    hunter1909,

    Don’t throw chocolate at LT’s Shih Tzu. Killing the hosts dog might get you banned for life.

  71. meanashell11 says:

    SwedishPoster: It’s in the constitution.

    I love Scandinavian humour! Last name, Larson!

  72. Bag of Pucks says:

    hunter1909: How do you know we’re not already on it?

    Cos I keep my supply of blue pills handy at all times.

  73. Melvis says:

    Two screens up and i managed misplacing several paragraphs. There’s absolutely no cohesion to this day. So mush the better, probably.;-)

  74. OriginalPouzar says:

    Gulutzan was on Oilers Now today and talked about how there are going to be “concrete changes” to the style of play this coming year that are going to be “visible”. Things that are going to speed up the rate of play and the pace at evens.

  75. v4ance says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Gulutzan was on Oilers Now today and talked about how there are going to be “concrete changes” to the style of play this coming year that are going to be “visible”.Things that are going to speed up the rate of play and the pace at evens.

    Gee so we’re actually going to use a system take advantage of McDavid’s speed? What a concept!

  76. OriginalPouzar says:

    dustrock:
    Now allow me to try to be a glass half-full guy by saying it is within the realm of possibility that this is the year that the Oilers explode, but that’s up to Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Benning and Nurse. Especially the wingers.

    You nailed many of my keys including:

    – Benning stepping up to be a true 2RD
    – Puljujarvi establishing himself as a true top 6 RW

    One very important additional key would be a bounce back season from Talbot.

  77. OriginalPouzar says:

    Wilde: His shots rate didn’t go up, though. He’s at 9.2/60 for the full season and was 9.0/60 in the last 20 games. He actually shot /less/ often. Just starting scoring on 24%.

    Interesting….

  78. OriginalPouzar says:

    blainer: Just wondering what you think is a good save% number for Koskinen.

    Is it too lofty of a goal to hope for league average save% for a backup. This team will be a major contender for the cup if Tabs gets back to 16/17 levels and if Kosk can put up a 915% and play at least 20 games.

    Every year at this time it’s always about the goalies for me going into the season. Very risky bet on Koskinen to be sure. I would feel a little more optimistic about this move If Chia hadn’t signed the monster. Let’s hope he gets this one right..

    I really don’t know the answer to that as, to me, the success of the back-up goalie is about giving the team a chance to win the game most nights that he’s in the next – generally being solid – and, yes, of course, stealing a couple of games.

    With a workload of apx 20 games, a few shitty games (which one should expect a backup to have) may skew the save percentage number.

  79. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: McDavid is only a pass first player if you play him with players who cannot pass the puck back to him.

    This “pass first” stuff is nonsense.

    No its not – there are players that are wired to look to distribute the puck first and there are players that are wired to look to put the puck at the net as much as they can.

    This is not to say that McDavid has an aversion to shooting the puck but he’s puck distributor first and foremost – and he could still win the Richard this year if he really wants to.

    Not everything a player does (or doesn’t do) is because of a decision be a mediocre coach.

  80. OriginalPouzar says:

    commonfan29:
    Obviously there was a ton of cash involved, but calling it a sale I think does a bit of a disservice to the return Slats was able to get.

    On August 9, 1988, was there a more valuable young player in the game than Jimmy Carson?

    I’ll aways believe a couple of things:
    1. Eakins ruined Yakupov.
    2. Oiler fans ruined Carson.

    I’m going to add to that:

    3. The Oilers got a solid return for Pronger – 2 1st round picks, a second round pick, a recent top 10 drafted d-man, a 21 year old that just scored close the 30 goals.

    Lupul regressed, Smid never lived up to his pedigree put the return, on trade day, was a pretty good haul even without a “star” coming back.

  81. RonnieB says:

    Kinger_Oil.redux: – between ben johnson stripped gold medal and gretz trade and jays not being to repeat and expos departure all in that period changed forever my relationship with sport

    You meant Jays not being able to 3-peat didn’t you ?
    They won it all in 1992 and 1993.

  82. RonnieB says:

    hunter1909: How do you know we’re not already on it?

    I live alone and laughed out loud for the first time in days. Thanks.

    Then i drifted off into deep thought, realizing i live in a prison of my own making. Can i have my thanks back please ?

  83. godot10 says:

    OriginalPouzar: No its not – there are players that are wired to look to distribute the puck first and there are players that are wired to look to put the puck at the net as much as they can.

    This is not to say that McDavid has an aversion to shooting the puck but he’s puck distributor first and foremost – and he could still win the Richard this year if he really wants to.

    Not everything a player does (or doesn’t do) is because of a decision be a mediocre coach.

    Dan Marino was a past first quarterback because he could not run. McDavid is NOT Dan Marino. He can do everything like Aaron Rodgers and Carson Wentz.

    McDavid is only pass first when there are no other options because his teammates are not skilled enough to play with him.

    McDavid will be wasting a big chunk of his ability if he fashions his game as a pass first player, when like essentially every generational player, they can do everything.

  84. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie63:
    At this stage of the recovery from the Lowe years.We have;

    2 skilled lines – RNH-McDavid- Yama – Lucic-Draisaitl-JP
    4 skilled dmen – Klefbom-Nurse-Larsson-Sekera

    Useful spare parts – Strome, Brodzack, Kassian, Reider, Russell, Benning
    Some good drafting – maybe

    Current goalies – are really up in the air and this why PC invested in a real 1B

    I would say that he paid the price of a 1B but invested in a giant question mark – from the history of KHL goalies coming over, there is no reasonable assurance that he will perform any better than Montoya let alone be an actual 1B.

    I’m cheering for him though – lets go Koski!

  85. New Improved Darkness says:

    A few weeks back, I started to follow Bruce on Twitter—under an account linked to my real name. #BabySteps

    Bruce just tweeted a little Stonehenge tidbit about 9 years, 9 months (which fell well short of 99 fortmonths, and there’s the tragedy).

    So there’s perhaps one person in residence who will appreciate my latest Byzantine lottery-ball near miss:

    2-3-4-6-10 42=sqrt(sqrt(10!-6!^2+3!^4))

    (No, I did not Rainman that, or mentally “science the hell” out of six-digit intermediate results.)

    Deep down, I have a little trouble accepting that sqrt() was separated at birth from square(). I really want to score this as:

    3-6-10 42=sqrt(sqrt(10!-square(6!)+square(square(3!))))

    But adding square() to the list of basic operations makes too many combinations too damn easy.

    If people recall, 14 choose 4 produces 1001 possible combinations (yes, I knew that once, and my candidates from recent posts using 15 and 16 were all wet—though if you had to infer the number of balls from the single draw 1-5-6-14 you’d probably guess 17).

    For me, this portable mental game greatly improves upon counting sheep. Before I nodded off last night, after randomly starting at 7-8-9-10 and working my way up in standard combinatorial sequence, I finally got stuck on 7-8-10-13. Never squeezed a 42 out of that set, no-how.

    This looks good at first:

    7-10-13 42=(13-10)!*7

    But the 8-ball scratches and you’re left snarling on your pillow (and your dreams are terrorized by 6.7 barren(-ish) and aggrieved years in your should-have-been unbroken 99-fortmonth reign of glory.)

    Welcome to the dark divinations of 1001 Four2bian Nights.

    Back to square(1), you certainly can’t add a square() primitive that makes 2 => 4 => 16 and 3 => 9 => 81 and 5 => 25 and 6 => 36, and 7 => 49, and 8 => 64, etc.

    So you’d have to limit it to only square numbers larger than 14, only then square() and sqrt() would be kind of separated at birth (not exact inverses).

    Yuck.

    But then you think …. mmmmmh … this is a mathematical recreation based on NHL lottery balls, and such a game wouldn’t really be complete without a lop-sided Bettman’s-blooper hairy wart.

    By the way, who noticed the following?

    3-6-10 42=6*(10-3)

    But you just know it’s me—who needs a real name?—when I masticate first-grade arithmetic into:

    3-6-10 42=sqrt(sqrt(10!-square(6!)+square(square(3!))))

  86. VOR says:

    Given how I spent my morning I find this thread ironic. I will get to the irony.

    First though, I am your worst nightmare. I have three Pitbull crosses and they are all rescues. They don’t bark by the way. Any of them, except in their sleep, which is weird.

    Two came from outside Calistoga, California. They needed a new home after the Thomas fire wiped out the ranch they grew up on. They have very special needs and so they ended up with me. It was supposed to be temporary. But their family was ripped apart and I think we may be their forever home.

    These dogs are Pit Bull/Boxmation crosses. I already had a year older (2) Boxmation/Pitbull cross (also a rescue). In each case the breeding is identical, quarter Pitbull, half Dalmation, quarter Boxer.

    They are stunningly beautiful dogs, fast beyond belief, springy as all get out. And they are impossibly friendly (they love people, all people, and other dogs). Not to mention they are complete clowns. And as a result people want to play with them. I decline but sometimes the dogs don’t.

    As I said they have special needs. They require at least 3 hours of exercise each day, are so strong and have such a high pain threshold that they are not dogs you can control physically. You have to be able to train and reinforce to command. We compete in obedience trials as well as obstacle courses, fly ball, high jumping and pulling. And they still think they are in charge.

    They truly struggle in the heat. But they still need their exercise. Which is why just after I posted this morning I went horseback riding along the Battle River. With the dogs. These are water dogs. As the morning warmed up they spent more and more time in the river. Now they are asleep in their insulated dog houses.

    But the ironic aspect of this is that I am riding rather than running because I have a broken ankle (dog injury) and also because I spent an hour getting the stupid dogs out of the water. Ever tried wrestling a wet, 100 plus pound dog out of a river, up a muddy bank, and into the cab of a pick up. Now do it three times. While the audience grows larger and larger and everybody is cheering for your four legged companions. And the 34 degree weather and smoke didn’t help. Nor did the broken ankle.

    Every time one got free it ran right back into the river.

    Making it more embarrassing the puppies are licking me the entire time.

    I never stop worrying, much as I love my dogs, and despite letting them slobber all over me, that I or someone else will trigger my adorable companions and turn them into dangerous killer attack dogs. My first Boxmation Ptbull killed a pack of coyotes by himself. The three working together ran down and killed an Elk last fall. Try explaining that to fish and wildlife.

    I am not delusional. I never stop coaching and disciplining my dogs. In town I have 6 foot fences with rollers on top and that fence goes 18 inches into the ground. My neighbors think I am nuts. I calmly explain the rollers are to prevent them climbing the fence (and to keep cats off it). The underground fence is because they love to dig. They can’t dig under the fence in a single night. Not that they haven’t tried.

    Would I do it again? I’m not sure. I don’t have a life. I have dogs. I can’t even go to the bathroom alone.

  87. OriginalPouzar says:

    Bag of Pucks:

    Fortunately Slats salvaged the situation with the trade with Detroit that was absolute highway robbery for the home team. Seriously – Murphy, Graves, and Klima in one fell swoop? Glen Sather – the original Magnificent Bastard.

    Don’t forget about the fourth piece, Jeff Sharples who was flipped at the 1990 deadline to rent Rexi Roustalanian.

  88. OriginalPouzar says:

    hunter1909: Hate to be a jerk, but if you get any “rescued” animal you’re gambling on things you have no control over.

    That is completely and 100% as it relates to me and my Greyhound.

  89. Side says:

    godot10:

    McDavid is only pass first when there are no other options because his teammates are not skilled enough to play with him.

    McDavid will be wasting a big chunk of his ability if he fashions his game as a pass first player, when like essentially every generational player, they can do everything.

    I have no clue how you came to this conclusion given how McDavid plays.

    To me it looks like he’s a pass first player, because he can read plays well and thread passes like needles to his teammates who can put the puck in an open net.

    Passing to someone in a better position to score is, for the most part, > trying to beat the goalie 1 on 1.

    McDavid is not a pass first player when his teammates are not “as skilled as him”. IMO, it’s that McDavid is so good at passing you don’t need skill to put it in the net.

    I could be standing beside the net wearing sandals and McDavid could create a play that results in him banking his pass off my stick that I’m holding haphazardly on the ice and into the open net.

    I think McDavid is just realizing, or gaining the confidence, in putting the puck in the net himself. Or maybe he realizes he has been a bit predictable trying to force a pass when he could shoot.

    Not sure why you make it seem like being a “pass first” player is such a dirty, wrong thing.

  90. OriginalPouzar says:

    godot10: Dan Marino was a past first quarterback because he could not run.McDavid is NOT Dan Marino.He can do everything like Aaron Rodgers and Carson Wentz.

    McDavid is only pass first when there are no other options because his teammates are not skilled enough to play with him.

    McDavid will be wasting a big chunk of his ability if he fashions his game as a pass first player, when like essentially every generational player, they can do everything.

    Yes, McDavid can do everything – he still looks to distribute the puck to other as his primary instinct.

    This seems pretty clear when time after time he “passes up” shooting opportunities to try and set up less skilled teammates.

    He has “shitty” wingers but yet is still often “accused” of over-passing.

    Imagine if he had true top line wingers…..

    I didn’t think this point was really arguable but, apparently….

  91. Georgexs says:

    New Improved Darkness,

    42 = 7!/(10+8-13)!

  92. Bag of Pucks says:

    VOR,

    VOR, I love the story and your commitment to giving those pups a better life.

    My wife’s a city girl. I grew up on a farm. Before she got a dog, it used to aggravate her to no end when couples with dogs and no kids would compare the commitment to raising a child. I would chuckle and agree with her to a certain extent, but having grown up with dogs I knew she was underrating the responsibilities associated with being a dog owner.

    A few years back, my then adolescent son was having some depression issues after a particularly bad breakup and we thought giving him a dog might help to change his perspective and improve his mood. In hindsight, that was a great call but it was as much luck as any great foresight on our part. My parting instructions to the both of them as they headed out was, ‘Don’t get a big dog. You’re not ready for that.’ Naturally, they fell in love with the 130 pound battering ram that now rules our roost. Thankfully they learned fast and the dog has become an absolute treasure in our lives.

    Man’s best friend. Hands down. And porn. Porn’s good too.

  93. VOR says:

    Bag of Pucks:
    VOR,

    VOR, I love the story and your commitment to giving those pups a better life.

    My wife’s a city girl. I grew up on a farm. Before she got a dog, it used to aggravate her to no end when couples with dogs and no kids would compare the commitment to raising a child. I would chuckle and agree with her to a certain extent, but having grown up with dogs I knew she was underrating the responsibilities associated with being a dog owner.

    A few years back, my then adolescent son was having some depression issues after a particularly bad breakup and we thought giving him a dog might help to change his perspective and improve his mood. In hindsight, that was a great call but it was as much luck as any great foresight on our part. My parting instructions to the both of them as they headed out was, ‘Don’t get a big dog. You’re not ready for that.’ Naturally, they fell in love with the 130 pound battering ram that now rules our roost. Thankfully they learned fast and the dog has become an absolute treasure in our lives.

    Man’s best friend. Hands down. And porn. Porn’s good too.

    My wife never had dogs. We bred and trained German Shepherds. My wife never asked me before she acquired the first Pittie. Nor the second or third.

    The odd thing is these three male dogs see her as leader of the pack. They follow her around all day. Doing whatever she tells them. Weird.

  94. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    Interesting thread.

    29 w/o 97 is rich with information and data and then Bendelson derails the thread.

    And by derail I don’t mean derail just point it in a different direction.

    Fucking Bendelson.

    Great Hunter posts and Melvis owns the thead.

    Vor adds to his list of “things I’ve done that you haven’t”

    The fact that DMW is chiming in regularly warms my cold black heart.

    Also,

    97 GF/60
    With 29 3.73/60
    W/O 29 3.55/60

    So EDM really doesn’t score more when 97/29 are together so Todd must be focusing on goals against right?

    97 GA/60
    With 29 2.77/60
    W/O 29 2.70/60

    Huh.

    So there is no advantage to the EDM to play 29 with 97 in terms of what it does to 97’s game.

    97 is 97 Forever and Ever Amen.

    Let’s look at 29:

    GF/60
    With 97 3.73/60
    W/O 97 2.67/60

    Pretty big drop, but not playing with Actual Hockey Jesus does that.

    GA/60
    With 97 2.77/60
    W/O 97 3.63/60

    Whoa.

    Maybe Todd puts 29 with 97 because he’s a gong show as a C in terms of GF%?

    Not only do the goals against drop by over a goal/60, but the goals against go up by over 1/60.

    No sir.

    That’s not good.

    I can see talking about winger quality in terms of goals for, but when it comes to goals against that dog don’t hunt. (Keeping in the spirit of the thread)

    29 playing to his ability without the puck is a huge deal in terms of “EDM without McDavid on the ice”

    I’m not sure he’ll get to where he needs to be.

    I really hope so.

  95. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I’m going to add to that:

    3. The Oilers got a solid return for Pronger – 2 1st round picks, a second round pick, a recent top 10 drafted d-man, a 21 year old that just scored close the 30 goals.

    Lupul regressed, Smid never lived up to his pedigree put the return, on trade day, was a pretty good haul even without a “star” coming back.

    Kevin Lowe is on record saying if he had the Pronger trade to do over he’d wait longer because the return wasn’t enough.

  96. pts2pndr says:

    meanashell11: This happens all the time. I was speaking to a guy in Minneapolis and he said one year dogs were disappearing. A lot of eagles around his parts. In the fall they had some bad wind storms and the eagles nests were blown around. A lot of collars were suddenly discovered! In another case, friends were on an Alaskan cruise with another couple who had a very small dog they brought everywhere. They were on deck watching the beautiful eagles then one swooped down and took fido right out of her arms….. I wont tell what their last vision was of fido to protect the innocent.

    If your dog is so small you can use it for eagle bait you really don’t have a dog your wife has a cat that learned how to bark! Just fooling little dogs are cute!

  97. workaroundaccount says:

    What can they really do if koskinen struggles? Can’t trade him. Guess you just partially bury him and overpay for a cheap backup

  98. GCW_69 says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Interesting thread.

    29 w/o 97 is rich with information and data and then Bendelson derails the thread.

    And by derail I don’t mean derail just point it in a different direction.

    Fucking Bendelson.

    Great Hunter posts and Melvis owns the thead.

    Vor adds to his list of “things I’ve done that you haven’t”

    The fact that DMW is chiming in regularly warms my cold black heart.

    Also,

    97 GF/60
    With 29 3.73/60
    W/O 29 3.55/60

    So EDM really doesn’t score more when 97/29 are together so Todd must be focusing on goals against right?

    97 GA/60
    With 29 2.77/60
    W/O 29 2.70/60

    Huh.

    So there is no advantage to the EDM to play 29 with 97 in terms of what it does to 97’s game.

    97 is 97 Forever and Ever Amen.

    Let’s look at 29:

    GF/60
    With 97 3.73/60
    W/O 97 2.67/60

    Pretty big drop, but not playing with Actual Hockey Jesus does that.

    GA/60
    With 97 2.77/60
    W/O 97 3.63/60

    Whoa.

    Maybe Todd puts 29 with 97 because he’s a gong show as a C in terms of GF%?

    Not only do the goals against drop by over a goal/60, but the goals against go up by over 1/60.

    No sir.

    That’s not good.

    I can see talking about winger quality in terms of goals for, but when it comes to goals against that dog don’t hunt. (Keeping in the spirit of the thread)

    29 playing to his ability without the puck is a huge deal in terms of “EDM without McDavid on the ice”

    I’m not sure he’ll get to where he needs to be.

    I really hope so.

    Leon is paid $8.5M so those numbers must be wrong. How dare you.

  99. GCW_69 says:

    LT- I am in the 88-92 poi. T range. I am concerned about secondary scoring, goaltending, the second PP unit and injury.

  100. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Interesting thread.

    29 w/o 97 is rich with information and data and then Bendelson derails the thread.

    And by derail I don’t mean derail just point it in a different direction.

    Fucking Bendelson.

    Great Hunter posts and Melvis owns the thead.

    Vor adds to his list of “things I’ve done that you haven’t”

    The fact that DMW is chiming in regularly warms my cold black heart.

    Also,

    97 GF/60
    With 29 3.73/60
    W/O 29 3.55/60

    So EDM really doesn’t score more when 97/29 are together so Todd must be focusing on goals against right?

    97 GA/60
    With 29 2.77/60
    W/O 29 2.70/60

    Huh.

    So there is no advantage to the EDM to play 29 with 97 in terms of what it does to 97’s game.

    97 is 97 Forever and Ever Amen.

    Let’s look at 29:

    GF/60
    With 97 3.73/60
    W/O 97 2.67/60

    Pretty big drop, but not playing with Actual Hockey Jesus does that.

    GA/60
    With 97 2.77/60
    W/O 97 3.63/60

    Whoa.

    Maybe Todd puts 29 with 97 because he’s a gong show as a C in terms of GF%?

    Not only do the goals against drop by over a goal/60, but the goals against go up by over 1/60.

    No sir.

    That’s not good.

    I can see talking about winger quality in terms of goals for, but when it comes to goals against that dog don’t hunt. (Keeping in the spirit of the thread)

    29 playing to his ability without the puck is a huge deal in terms of “EDM without McDavid on the ice”

    I’m not sure he’ll get to where he needs to be.

    I really hope so.

    He did play almost 300 minutes with Lucic, his most common linemate after McDavid and was 37.5%GF with Lucic and 53.8% without.

    200 of those minutes were without McDavid and the GF% drops to 30%.

    Take away Lucic (so no Lucic or McDavid) and, in almost 500 minutes, it goes up to 48%.

    Maybe Lucic at 2LW isn’t such a good idea…..

  101. pts2pndr says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    Interesting thread.

    29 w/o 97 is rich with information and data and then Bendelson derails the thread.

    And by derail I don’t mean derail just point it in a different direction.

    Fucking Bendelson.

    Great Hunter posts and Melvis owns the thead.

    Vor adds to his list of “things I’ve done that you haven’t”

    The fact that DMW is chiming in regularly warms my cold black heart.

    Also,

    97 GF/60
    With 29 3.73/60
    W/O 29 3.55/60

    So EDM really doesn’t score more when 97/29 are together so Todd must be focusing on goals against right?

    97 GA/60
    With 29 2.77/60
    W/O 29 2.70/60

    Huh.

    So there is no advantage to the EDM to play 29 with 97 in terms of what it does to 97’s game.

    97 is 97 Forever and Ever Amen.

    Let’s look at 29:

    GF/60
    With 97 3.73/60
    W/O 97 2.67/60

    Pretty big drop, but not playing with Actual Hockey Jesus does that.

    GA/60
    With 97 2.77/60
    W/O 97 3.63/60

    Whoa.

    Maybe Todd puts 29 with 97 because he’s a gong show as a C in terms of GF%?

    Not only do the goals against drop by over a goal/60, but the goals against go up by over 1/60.

    No sir.

    That’s not good.

    I can see talking about winger quality in terms of goals for, but when it comes to goals against that dog don’t hunt. (Keeping in the spirit of the thread)

    29 playing to his ability without the puck is a huge deal in terms of “EDM without McDavid on the ice”

    I’m not sure he’ll get to where he needs to be.

    I really hope so.

    Could it be that the Oiler opposition use their best defensive players against the McDavid line. Hence Leon plays against more offensively gifted players. Leon also recieved more defensive zone draws by my recollection. Could zone starts and quality of comp explain part of the wide variance? I do believe that cutting down on goals against shoul be the target to get back to the playoffs!

  102. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Kevin Lowe is on record saying if he had the Pronger trade to do over he’d wait longer because the return wasn’t enough.

    Sure but I have my own opinion which is those 5 assets (including 2 first round picks and two VERY good young assets) was a pretty good haul.

    As an aside, we all know that one of the 1st round picks turned in to Eberle and the other was a bust (Nick Ross) but the 2nd round pick turned in to Travis Hamonic (Oilers traded the pick for Alan Rourke – sign).

  103. OriginalPouzar says:

    workaroundaccount:
    What can they really do if koskinen struggles? Can’t trade him. Guess you just partially bury him and overpay for a cheap backup

    We will have Montoya (assuming he clears waivers) – that’s a fantastic opinion B.

    WIth that said, I’ve discussed this with LT and he believes that, if it isn’t working out, the parties (Oilers and Koskinen) will mutually agree to terminate the contract.

  104. rickithebear says:

    36/51 goal against increase was at even.
    that defend perimeter over HD area.

    It was funny got in to an accident. Guy peeled off the skin of front end of sienna.
    No damage to brakets or bumper.
    Field adjuster saw my oilers hat. Started discussing this year.
    Said we went to perimeter press system like Eakins in 17-18 instead of defending HD area,

    He said, “thank you” said he was at the 2nd game of season in Vancouver.
    Doing field valuation of ships for marine insurers.
    Was 3 rows behind the Bench. Near end of 2nd he said he stood up and yelled “What are you doing? You are not Eakins.”

  105. Bag of Pucks says:

    Melvis:
    But I will say it again. How did Paul Allen know?

    For the same reasons I knew, but I’ll get to that in a moment. The short answer. Intuition and my neck hairs standing on end. In terms of an explanation and remake and remodel,I’m “In the Mood” today.

    https://www.smu.edu.sg/perspectives/2017/09/29/sports-analytics-why-your-favourite-team-knows-more-about-you-you-think

    Thanks VOR.

    I think the link warrents a repeat for those who are not only interested in player and team data and analytics, but also for those who are interested in “event” data. I tend to view these various aspects of info gathering as interdependent and somewhat Janus faced, but more so, 3D squared, multi-faced multi-disciplinary pursuits.

    Personal experience since high school has me far more experienced in the event aspects of the phenomena, for lack of a better term. It comprises a much more significant aspect of my professional background since high school. I say this as a once nascent, entrepreneurally minded kid who had already cooked up and promoted about a hundred shows prior to grade 12 – as a social director in school, on my own dime as a musician, and as a member of a youth group taking full advantage of the local rec centre every saturday night for three years of local band blasts.

    Be careful of what you wish for. About two years later, I was drafted on the floor of Maple Leaf Gardens before being sent to the bigs. That was the afternoon of Dec.31, 1973. Within ten days, I had moved to LA . I hadless than a week of reclimatization from 40 below Saskatoon, to 85 degree Socal. Then almost immediately plunged into a dozen sold out east coast college dates. I have a sneaking suspicion of what JP was going through. The difference being, I could speak the language and got treated a little better. Off the top of my head, this one area where a consulting group could step in.

    The first LA friends made that day – Jeff Porcaro, David Paich, David Hungate, Louie Shelton. Those guys played on more than 5000 albums. Those albums resulted in more than 225 Grammy nominations and more than half a billion in record sales.Members of that crew essentially comprised the house band on Thriller – the biggest selling LP of all time. And when in town, we we rubbed shoulders on a daily basis.This is the point at which K Lowe might step in with the “we know something about winning.”Insert smiley face.

    Kevin, some introspection, puleeze. All that shit in the previous paragraph is only there to remind you of it’s blinding effects to the here and now, fer fucks sake.

    More in a moment.

    This is gold Jerry. Gold!

  106. Woogie63 says:

    OriginalPouzar: I would say that he paid the price of a 1B but invested in a giant question mark – from the history of KHL goalies coming over, there is no reasonable assurance that he will perform any better than Montoya let alone be an actual 1B.

    I’m cheering for him though – lets go Koski!

    Talbot/goalie was THE PROBLEM last year.

    Talbot is a wildcard (I am cheering for him) if he is back to the first 30 games of 2015 or 2017/18 we are sunk.

    I would invest my budget in this position as well. Who cares who your 2RW is if we are behind every game after 5 shots on net.

    Montoya is fine backing up the “Price” of the league.

  107. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: He did play almost 300 minutes with Lucic, his most common linemate after McDavid and was 37.5%GF with Lucic and 53.8% without.

    200 of those minutes were without McDavid and the GF% drops to 30%.

    Take away Lucic (so no Lucic or McDavid) and, in almost 500 minutes, it goes up to 48%.

    Maybe Lucic at 2LW isn’t such a good idea…..

    Good info and point.

  108. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    pts2pndr: Could it be that the Oiler opposition use their best defensive players against the McDavid line. HenceLeon plays againstmore offensively gifted players. Leon also recieved more defensive zone draws by my recollection. Could zone starts and quality of comp explain part of the wide variance? I do believe that cutting down on goals against shoul be the target to get back to the playoffs!

    I have 97/29 Wood money splits somewhere, leave it with me.

    Iirc 97 still sees the best forwards away from 29

  109. Woodguy v2.0 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sure but I have my own opinion which is those 5 assets (including 2 first round picks and two VERY good young assets) was a pretty good haul.

    As an aside, we all know that one of the 1st round picks turned in to Eberle and the other was a bust (Nick Ross) but the 2nd round pick turned in to Travis Hamonic (Oilers traded the pick for Alan Rourke – sign).

    If ANA doesn’t make the SCF there is no 1st that turns into Eberle.

    Lowe rolled 7 times in a row there.

  110. Bank Shot says:

    Dvorak signed today. Career high of 37 points. $4.5 million.
    Wilson got just over $5 for 35 points.

    The Lucic contract might not look so bad in two seasons.

  111. B S says:

    Bag of Pucks: You can’t hug a shark.

    Speaking from personal experience, “you shouldn’t hug a shark” is more accurate. You can hug them, and I have out of necessity. Even the 4-5 foot long ones are strong enough to pull themselves free or wrench someone’s joints out of place. Sharks get a bad rap, but most of them are harmless. Just love them from a distance.

  112. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: Lowe rolled 7 times in a row there.

    Maybe you hit the nail on the head.

    GM’s who end up in the position of having to roll 7 times in a row have a hard time sustaining any early “luck”.

  113. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy v2.0: If ANA doesn’t make the SCF there is no 1st that turns into Eberle.

    The cost was Chris Pronger who imo was every bit as great as Messier sans cup wins(Messier had a better supporting cast, to put it mildly).

  114. hunter1909 says:

    Woodguy v2.0,

    Now Oilers end up with a player so incredible that the current Hart Trophy winner pales in comparison.

  115. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woogie63: Talbot/goalie was THE PROBLEM last year.

    Talbot is a wildcard (I am cheering for him) if he is back to the first 30 games of 2015 or 2017/18 we are sunk.

    I would invest my budget in this position as well.Who cares who your 2RW is if we are behind every game after 5 shots on net.

    Montoya is fine backing up the “Price” of the league.

    I’m much more confident in Talbot than you but that’s neither here nor there.

    Personally, I wasn’t in favor of investing this type of cap commitment to a back-up tender, however, if such a commitment was going to be made, I would have thought it would be to a player that provide reasonable assurances of actually improving the position. Someone that has had success at the position in the NHL – there were many that were going to come available, and did, in fact some of them aren’t far removed from starter success in the NHL – Halak, Mzarek, etc.

  116. OriginalPouzar says:

    Woodguy v2.0: If ANA doesn’t make the SCF there is no 1st that turns into Eberle.

    Lowe rolled 7 times in a row there.

    Yup, the condition vested – even if it didn’t, a first rounder, a second rounder and two very good young assets – that’s still a decent haul.

  117. VOR says:

    I think of my life as very boring and ordinary.

    But tonight I am going to tell a truly extraordinary story. It is about the night my friend Dave Beiderman climbed Tangle Ridge.

    If you have driven from Jasper to the Columbia Ice fields you’ve driven right past Tangle Ridge.

    You don’t ever get a view of the summit. But the road follows the shoulder of the ridge for quite a long way.

    The face of Tangle Ridge is the most dangerous climb in the Canadian Rockies. It had at this point never been climbed. According to Dave over the years some of the world’s best climbers, including eight Japanese had died trying.

    I had never climbed before but Dave convinced me that we could climb it. Dave had climbed all over the world. So I assumed he knew what he was talking about.

    We hiked into the base of the face. It is a beautiful hike and a haunting place. The face looms over you.

    This might be a good time to mention I am terrified of heights.

    After letting me stare at this impossible climb Dave guides me back down the trail to the Columbia Icefields Parkway. We get in our truck and drive a mile or so. Then we do the climb up into Wilcox Pass from the west

    Wilcox Pass is named for the explorer Mary Wilcox the first white person to see the Columbia Icefields. The other end of the pass, accessible from Wilcox Creek campground gives you fabulous views of the Icefields. The west trail goes right up beside Tangle Falls. At which point we crossed the creek and began to hike up this steep slope.

    It was a long slow slog. At the end of which we had a spectacular view down the face of Tangle Ridge.

    Dave looks at me and says, “and what does this teach us?”

    At the time I said, “there is a hard way, and an easy way and only fools take the hard way.” He just laughed.

    It took me years to understand the lesson Dave taught me that night.

    It is what I try to pass on to all my clients. It is what I would tell the Oilers coming into this crucial season.

  118. LadiesloveSmid says:

    Do we not care about on-ice SV% anymore? I remember a stretch where every time 29 hit the ice, Talbot/Brossoit couldn’t stop a beach ball. By eye he certainly isn’t making egregious defensive mistakes every game. I think over a few seasons we’d see more in line GA numbers, the guy needs worlds better wingers as well.

  119. jtblack says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Do we not care about on-ice SV% anymore? I remember a stretch where every time 29 hit the ice, Talbot/Brossoit couldn’t stop a beach ball. By eye he certainly isn’t making egregious defensive mistakes every game. I think over a few seasons we’d see more in line GA numbers, the guy needs worlds better wingers as well.

    I remember a stretch where everytime ANY Oiler hit the ice, there was the risk of a Softy. The first 2 Minutes of any game was dangerous to be on the ice; Dadbot was particularily vulnerable with 1st shots ….

  120. OriginalPouzar says:

    LadiesloveSmid:
    Do we not care about on-ice SV% anymore? I remember a stretch where every time 29 hit the ice, Talbot/Brossoit couldn’t stop a beach ball. By eye he certainly isn’t making egregious defensive mistakes every game. I think over a few seasons we’d see more in line GA numbers, the guy needs worlds better wingers as well.

    His on ice save % was the 2nd lowest of all regular Oiler forwards (to Letestu).

  121. jp says:

    OriginalPouzar: His on ice save % was the 2nd lowest of all regular Oiler forwards (to Letestu).

    I was going to add that it’s not been that low in other years, then I looked it up. Turns out he was 2nd worst in 16-17 also. Much better in 15-16 at 11th of 25 players (>200 min) . But that is damned poor overall.

  122. Georgexs says:

    “If Leon struggles early, how long into the season before Todd McLellan puts them back together?”

    If Leon struggles early, how long into the season before Glen Gulutzan puts them back together?

    On a serious note, question for the HC and the GM: you’ve been coaching and developing Leon for 3 seasons now, watching him grow as a player. You, TMac, have given him extended minutes with CMD even though it seems to make no difference to CMD’s performance while making all the difference in Leon’s performance. And you, PC, have seen fit to give him $8.5M per on a long-term deal, putting him well out of the category of supporting players and into the echelon of players who Get Things Done.

    Do you, as experienced pros, have a timeline for when Leon will stop struggling when asked to carry the water without a CMD or Hall? Or is this as good as it gets?

    This is pretty much why the HC won’t survive Leon’s early struggles. The GM has chosen to stand pat and give the coach a do-over. If Leon plays with CMD or gets whupped away from CMD, the GM’s going to call it a day.

  123. Glovjuice says:

    VOR:
    For those of you who are interested.

    https://ashleyoutside.com/tangle-ridge-hike-in-jasper-national-park/

    Great, thanks – been up and through Wilcox pass but not the route described herein / looks like a must do / cheers, VOR.

  124. JimmyV1965 says:

    meanashell11:
    Sorry my friend but do not say that about pit bulls.

    I am very happy everyone is alright.

    I have no idea why that dog attacked but it has nothing to do with pit bulls. Like most things, pets reflect their owners. Pit bulls are some of the most friendly and safe dogs out there. Do not paint them all with one brush.

    I once knew a couple who owned a pit bull. They were great owners. The dog was well behaved as well. Then one day it decided to tear a poodle to shreds. He had to be put down. The couple was devastated for many reasons.

  125. rickithebear says:

    hunter1909: Admittedly I’m not a nice person, who loves all living things.

    Me too.

    Everything is edible but humans!

    Well thier is the frozen preserved on the mountain rule.

  126. v4ance says:

    Moving to small town Saskatchewan.. it was so small, when we moved there the sign announced that we were entering the Village of Turtleford population 498. The next year with our family of 6 joining officially, they changed the sign to TOWN of Turtleford Population 504. That’s how small the town was!

    Anyways, we always lived in a city before then, Edmonton, Lethbridge, Lloydminster and never had a chance at pets. Within 1 month of moving in, a stray tabby walked in from the edge of town and decided that we were worth adopting. Since Tiger was a female, she had kittens within a month after. We had cats for years and my mom adored them all.

    Being right on the edge of town, Tiger loved to head out to the fields to hunt for everything under the sun. Most days it was field mice but every so often, she would walk in with a full grown gopher the same size as her or a crow or a bird of every imaginable plumage. We always loved Tiger darting around the house with the carcasses as mom tried to get retrieve the (sometimes) still wriggling prey from Tiger’s jaws.

    We had about 2 generations of cats who came through our house before we gave them away or they passed on. We were down to one cat, Mussy or Mr Mustache if you were being formal, and out of the blue, my dad declares that he wants a dog!

    I don’t know where he went but he came back with a 1/2 wolf, 1/4 husky, 1/4 german shepherd puppy. Since The Cosby show was on and Rudy was showing off her new friend “Bud”, we had to name the dog Bud too… even tho Bud was female! Of course, Mussy hated Bud as she was getting old and didn’t want to run around with the young energetic pup. Eventually Mussy established that she was the queen and for the last months of her life, Buddy and her groomed each other as total pals.

    Around that time I was doing newspaper routes. Growing up with cats did not train me to handle my fear of the big angry barking dogs on my route. I was particularly scared of this one 100 pound german shepherd named Rocky on the McDonald’s farm on the 303 road leading out to Maidstone. Every day I went to the McDonald farm last and was confronted by an excitedly barking beast and every day, I retreated, leaving the paper somewhere NOT at their front door or porch.

    Once we got Bud, we had to take her out for walks but the joke was, we didn’t really take Buddy out for walks, she took us out for runs. Between her husky and wolf genes, she was a compact 80 pound sled pulling machine. Since we didn’t have a sled, she just dragged us kids around for hours and hours and hours and turned me into a fine all disciplines runner.

    When Buddy was about 6 months, I had the WALK. We met Rocky. On the road. Eyes locked. Rocky started barking. Bud started growling. Straining at the leash. Rocky turned tail. I was never scared of Rocky after that.

  127. Wilde says:

    Woodguy v2.0:
    29 playing to his ability without the puck is a huge deal in terms of “EDM without McDavid on the ice”
    I’m not sure he’ll get to where he needs to be.
    I really hope so.

    I’m getting closer to delivering the verdict of the video work and I’m also getting closer to the point where I can say he’ll be alright if he wants to be, might even end up above average defensively. In moments that he’s missed something, it’s usually because he didn’t pick up his feet quick enough but the recognition and anticipation is there. I really wish never been paired with McDavid, honestly, because these are critical years. He’ll be 23 in October.

    As of December 28th, 2017, Draisaitl was 11-10 in goals away from McDavid and then went 17-28 after. The entirety of the distance from 50% is the -11 that occurred in that timespan.

    I plan to cap off the video review series with those 28 goals. Some will already have been covered, but having them all in one post will be good.

    A big part of what I have viewed so far is lapses by unrecovered Andrej Sekera and rookie Ethan Bear resulting in goals against that Draisaitl couldn’t have done anything to stop. Sekera in particular went 0-5 with Drai-minus-97 down the stretch.

  128. Wilde says:

    Georgexs:
    This is pretty much why the HC won’t survive Leon’s early struggles. The GM has chosen to stand pat and give the coach a do-over. If Leon plays with CMD or gets whupped away from CMD, the GM’s going to call it a day.

    If they go to Europe with Lucic – Drai – Rieder, that could be it right there.

  129. Oilman99 says:

    godot10: Gretzky was only signed for 4 or 5 more years when he was traded.In every renegotiation of his contract with Pocklington, he had shortened the duration of his contract from the 1999 end date, and he had negotiated to be a complete unrestricted free agent at the end of those 4 or 5 years.That was all that was left in any case.It never would have lasted till the mid-nineties.He didn’t shorten his contract and negotiate unrestricted free agency if he was planning to stay.

    It was that UFA clause that was freaking Pocklington out.He had desperate money troubles, and was now facing losing his prime asset in 5 years for nothing.

    Also, Pocklington really didn’t have the money at that point…see Melnyk in Ottawa, and Pocklington was in much worse shape.He couldn’t afford to keep the dynasty core together…certainly not at the salaries Gretzky and Messier would require.

    There was only one reason for the trade, Pocklington needed the money, plain and simple, no BS about free agency. The 65cent dollar was killing the Canadian teams too. No cap meant teams like New York, Detroit etc. were operating on budgets three or four times as big as teams like the Oilers, Jets and other low budget teams. All the hall of fame talent on that Oiler team meant the team was doomed,because Peter Puck had no money, and the amount of money brought in at the ticket price in those days meant the team was going to get dismantled.

  130. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: We will have Montoya (assuming he clears waivers) – that’s a fantastic opinion B.

    WIth that said, I’ve discussed this with LT and he believes that, if it isn’t working out, the parties (Oilers and Koskinen) will mutually agree to terminate the contract.

    Montoya is not a viable option. Management has already crossed that bridge by signing Koskinen.

  131. Oilman99 says:

    OriginalPouzar: Sure but I have my own opinion which is those 5 assets (including 2 first round picks and two VERY good young assets) was a pretty good haul.

    As an aside, we all know that one of the 1st round picks turned in to Eberle and the other was a bust (Nick Ross) but the 2nd round pick turned in to Travis Hamonic (Oilers traded the pick for Alan Rourke – sign)

    Irregardless of what they got for him, the Oilers have never had a decent defence since they traded him,Pronger was basically irreplaceable.

  132. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Montoya is not a viable option. Management has alreadycrossed that bridge by signing Koskinen.

    There is no doubt in my mind that Koskinen will be the back-up for Game 1, even if he is outplayed in camp.

    If Koskinen struggles from the start and the team wants to move on from his (as LT suggests they would), then I’d be quite happy to have Montoya as a call-up option (assuming he clears waivers in the first place and is playing nice).

  133. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilman99: Irregardless of what they got for him, the Oilers have never had a decent defence since they traded him,Pronger was basically irreplaceable.

    Sure, fair enough although I would posit they have a decent defence right now as long as Benning can fill that 2RD spot – in fact, with Sekera (an elite second pairing guy when healthy) scheduled for the 3rd pairing, there is the potential for the current defensive group to be quite deep).

  134. russ99 says:

    OriginalPouzar:
    Gulutzan was on Oilers Now today and talked about how there are going to be “concrete changes” to the style of play this coming year that are going to be “visible”.Things that are going to speed up the rate of play and the pace at evens.

    As long as it’s not all steam ahead, forget the back, hope the goalie bails us out, I’m cool with that.

  135. OriginalPouzar says:

    I would guess the plan is to not play with reckless abandon.

  136. russ99 says:

    Oilman99: There was only one reason for the trade, Pocklington needed the money, plain and simple, no BS about free agency. The 65cent dollar was killing the Canadian teams too. No cap meant teams like New York, Detroit etc. were operating on budgets three or four times as big as teams like the Oilers, Jets and other low budget teams. All the hall of fame talent on that Oiler team meant the team was doomed,because Peter Puck had no money, and the amount of money brought in at the ticket price in those days meant the team was going to get dismantled.

    I wonder if the Gainer’s strike two summers previous had an indirect effect. Screw with labor, and you get burned.

  137. 99266in87 says:

    v4ance,

    Haha, nice story. I had a paper route in North Battleford in the ‘70’s, came across a 3 legged german Shepherd. As I walked to the side door, he/she limped from behind the house slowly. Our eyes met before I delivered the paper, when it took off, I never saw such wheels on a dog. Hopped on my bike with this 3 legged dog chasing me down the street. I can’t remember what became of it after on my route lol. All I remember is man it was fast.

  138. OriginalPouzar says:

    Oilers prospect system comes in at 22 on Pronman’s raking – which is pretty good as he values high end talent over depth (Oilers are accumulating depth but still lack high end, can’t miss prospects).

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