The Graduates

by Lowetide

We often debate the minor league system and how much it should be producing each fall. I heard many years ago that a good draft produces two actual NHL players a season, so if we add .5 players for the college and CHL undrafted free agents we arrive at 2.5 per year.

The other question surrounds qualifying as an actual NHL player. Scott Cullen’s line in the sand suggests 100 games, based on draft results. Many commenters have suggested that’s a low bar, so what’s reasonable? 400 games? Let’s start at the beginning of this century, count the graduates and their games played and see how many successful crops we’ve seen.

Finally, since the Oilers have been drafting so high over the last several years, I’m going to expand it from “guys who came up through the minors” to “players who entered the NHL via the draft or amateur procurement” and make the AHL unnecessary to qualify for the list.

THE ATHLETIC!

Give The Athletic as a gift or get it yourself and join the fun! Offer is here, less than $4 a month! I find myself reading both the hockey (Willis, Dellow, Pronman, et cetera) and the baseball coverage a lot, it’s a pure pleasure to visit. We’ll sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge.

GRADUATES 2000-10

  • 1999-00: Daniel Cleary (938); Dan Lacouture (337)
  • 2000-01: Shawn Horcoff (1008); Mike Comrie (589)
  • 2001-02: Jussi Markkanen (128)
  • 2002-03: Jason Chimera (1107); Ales Hemsky (845); Fernando Pisani (462)
  • 2003-04: Jarret Stoll (872); Raffi Torres (635); Marc-Andre Bergeron (490); Ty Conklin (216) 
  • 2004-05: LOCKOUT
  • 2005-06: Matt Greene (615); Brad Winchester (390)
  • 2006-07Jan Hejda (627); Ladislav Smid (583)
  • 2007-08Andrew Cogliano (866); Kyle Brodziak (847); Sam Gagner (770); Tom Gilbert (655)
  • 2008-09: Theo Peckham (160)
  • 2009-10: Devan Dubnyk (423)

If we’re using 2.5 players per year and 400 games in a career, some of these seasons are winners (2000-01; 2002-03; 2003-04; 2005-06; 2006-07; 2007-08) and some are not but should be (1999-00; 2009-10) while others fell short (2001-02, 2008-09).

GRADUATES 2011-18

  • 2010-11: Jordan Eberle (588); Taylor Hall (529); Jeff Petry (527); Magnus Paajarvi (387)
  • 2011-12: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (457)
  • 2012-13: Justin Schultz (407); Nail Yakupov (350); Chris VandeVelde (278)
  • 2013-14: Oscar Klefbom (255); Martin Marincin (177)
  • 2014-15: Leon Draisaitl (269); Tyler Pitlick (138)
  • 2015-16: Connor McDavid (209); Darnell Nurse (197); Brandon Davidson (152)
  • 2016-17: Matt Benning (135); Drake Caggiula (127); Jesse Puljujarvi (93)
  • 2017-18: Jujhar Khaira (94); Pontus Aberg (68)

We can’t use 400 games, but we can say 2010-11 was a party. If the Oilers could keep all of their graduates, things would look much better. Alas, the sheer number of good young players who were sent away too soon (Jason Chimera, Jarret Stoll, Raffi Torres, Kyle Brodziak, Jan Hejda, Andrew Cogliano, Devan Dubnyk, Jeff Petry, Justin Schultz, Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle) carved a big hole in both decades. In many, many ways, trading Jesse Puljujarvi this instant would be in keeping with a terrible Oilers tradition. Get good players, keep good players.

ETHAN BEAR AT 20

Bear is an interesting player, it wasn’t obvious on draft day he would emerge as the second best prospect for the Oilers from the 2015 draft. It still could turn out a different way, but in the three years since he was chosen Bear has been tearing up the blacktop. In his look-see at the end of the 2017-18 season, he showed excellent passing ability and decision making with the puck, while also showing us there’s miles to go in coverage.

How much of a wallop does he pack offensively? One way for us to track his progress is comparing other 20-year old defensemen in the same league, same season:

Bear is in good company, and did have some power-play success (7 assists). I don’t know if he’s going to make it as an NHL player, but the three seasons post draft have been good ones for Bear. I’m cheering for him.

PROJECTED CONDORS 2018-19 (WITH NHLE)

  • I don’t think Kailer Yamamoto spends a long time in the AHL, but he should dominate while there.
  • Cooper Marody went 1-2-3 in three Bakersfield games at the end of the season, he assisted on two goals by Tyler Vesel, while scoring off a pass from Dave Gust.
  • Tyler Benson assisted on three AHL goals in five games (scored by Kyle Platzer, Joey Laleggia and Tyler Vesel) and I think we’ll see him in a prominent role all season in Bakersfield.
  • Tyler Vesel may be able to find his way up to the Oilers at some point, he has some nice two-way skills. Jonathan Willis wrote a fine piece for The Athletic on him here.
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OriginalPouzar

Woodguy v2.0,

Ooooops, missed this before I just posted the same thing – sorry for the repeat – just catching up.

OriginalPouzar

who: Are you saying. Yamamotos contract will slide if he plays the whole year in the AHL? That doesn’t sound right.

Yes, because he signed when we was 18 – 9.1(d)(i) applied his past season and 9.1(d)(ii) should apply for this season:

(i) In the event that an 18 year old or 19 year old Player signs an SPC with a
Club but does not play at least ten (10) NHL Games in the first season
under that SPC, the term of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry
Level System shall be extended for a period of one (1) year, except that
this automatic extension will not apply to a Player who is 19 according to
Section 9.2 by virtue of turning 20 between September 16 and December
31 in the year in which he first signs an SPC. Unless a Player and Club
expressly agree to the contrary, in the event a Player’s SPC is extended an
additional year in accordance with this subsection, all terms of the SPC,
with the exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary,
games played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided,
however, that the Player’s Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all
circumstances.

(ii) In the event that a Player signs his first SPC at age 18 and has had his SPC
extended pursuant to Subsection (i), and such Player does not play at least
ten (10) NHL Games in the second season under that SPC, then the term
of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry Level System shall be
extended for one (1) additional year. Unless a Player and Club expressly
agree to the contrary, in the event a Player’s SPC is extended an additional
year in accordance with this Subsection, all terms of the SPC, with the
exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary, games
played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided,
however, that the Player’s Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all
circumstances.

OriginalPouzar

Professor Q: Hopefully they learned from how they handled Puljujärvi?

Well, yes, I guess, but there is a difference between a raw 18 year old from remote Finland and a Canadian born 20 year old coming from the CHL.

Melvis

B S,

“Pill” might be a bit of misnomer. I’m not questioning his personality. I’m drawing on an interview originally given in Russian in which he claimed to have one primary coach. His dad. After the highs and lows of Kreuger and Eakins, there were two more Oiler coaches, plus two elsewhere. The latter four can’t be all wrong. He got press boxed in Colorado, and Bared threw under the bus on one occasion.

He also sat the playoffs his last year there, after which nobody wanted him. A lot of people here tend to ignore his last two years in the NHL. One can blame the Oilers for a lot of things. But you can’t blame two other organizations for his failings, and the rest of league for total disinterest.

Woodguy v2.0

who: Are you saying. Yamamotos contract will slide if he plays the whole year in the AHL? That doesn’t sound right.

Its true.

Section 9.2
Age of Players. As used in this Article, “age,” including “First SPC Signing Age,” means
a Player’s age on September 15 of the calendar year in which he signs an SPC, regardless of his
actual age on the date he signs such SPC

So even though Yamamoto was 19 when he signed his contract, according to the NHL he was 18.

If you sign your ELC at 18 it can slide for two years:

9.1(d) (i)
In the event that an 18 year old or 19 year old Player signs an SPC with a
Club but does not play at least ten (10) NHL Games in the first season
under that SPC, the term of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry
Level System shall be extended for a period of one (1) year, except that
this automatic extension will not apply to a Player who is 19 according to
Section 9.2 by virtue of turning 20 between September 16 and December
31 in the year in which he first signs an SPC. Unless a Player and Club
expressly agree to the contrary, in the event a Player’s SPC is extended an
additional year in accordance with this subsection, all terms of the SPC,
with the exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary,
games played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided,
however, that the Player’s Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all
circumstances.

The above section describes the first year an ELC can slide.

Here’s the section that OP was referring to that affects Yamamoto:

9.1(d)(ii)
In the event that a Player signs his first SPC at age 18 and has had his SPC
extended pursuant to Subsection (i), and such Player does not play at least
ten (10) NHL Games in the second season under that SPC, then the term
of his SPC and his number of years in the Entry Level System shall be
extended for one (1) additional year. Unless a Player and Club expressly
agree to the contrary, in the event a Player’s SPC is extended an additional
year in accordance with this Subsection, all terms of the SPC, with the
exception of Signing Bonuses, but including Paragraph 1 Salary, games
played bonuses and Exhibit 5 bonuses, shall be extended; provided,
however, that the Player’s Paragraph 1 Salary shall be extended in all
circumstances.

B S

Melvis: I’ve harped on the smaller item. Sarnia gave Yak his head, So did Krueger. After which, he, his dad, his agent, and gord knows what else, shit the bed.

He had his chances with the Blues and the Avs. One has to consider those coaching staffs, aside from the Oilers. Culture aside, I suspect, he was a bit of a pill whereever he went – despite surface appearances.

This falls in the category of friend of a friend, as far as anecdotes go, but a friend of mine served Yakupov as a waiter on multiple occasions when he played in Edmonton and found him to be very polite and a bit soft spoken. This is in limited interaction, but Yak never came off as arrogant or bothered. After coming to eat a few times he brought the rest of the team so it certainly seemed as though Yak was at least talking with the rest of the team on good terms. If I recall correctly this was near the start of the following season.

I can certainly imagine that there could have been problems getting Yakupov to learn the systems, and I personally suspect that his agent was a major problem with getting Yak to buy into the team and coaches, but given what I’ve heard about Yakupov, he didn’t have personality problems that would lend themselves to poor hockey sense or team game.

Again, it’s all speculative

Less speculatively, regarding Yakupov’s shot. I watched an Oilers TC practice when Yakupov first arrived and his shot was everything it was cracked up to be. it was hard and deadly accurate. He was picking corners just inside the post from almost every angle. It was the same way he would shoot his rookie season. I don’t know what happened with Eakins after Yak’s rookie season, but that accurate shot that he had was gone. I’m sure that goalies and defensemen were playing his angles better in following seasons, and as with most rookies his shooting percentage would drop, but it doesn’t explain him missing the net so often. I think something about the coaching had him gripping his stick harder.

who

OriginalPouzar:
Its occurred to me that, given Yamamoto was 18 when he signed his ELC via Section 9.2 of the CBA, his contract is subject to slide again this year if he doesn’t play 10 NHL games.

I honestly don’t imagine that he doesn’t get in to 10 NHL games this year but I wonder if this is a factor at all in management’s decisions with him.

Are you saying. Yamamotos contract will slide if he plays the whole year in the AHL? That doesn’t sound right.

Professor Q

OriginalPouzar:
Its occurred to me that, given Yamamoto was 18 when he signed his ELC via Section 9.2 of the CBA, his contract is subject to slide again this year if he doesn’t play 10 NHL games.

I honestly don’t imagine that he doesn’t get in to 10 NHL games this year but I wonder if this is a factor at all in management’s decisions with him.

Hopefully they learned from how they handled Puljujärvi?

OriginalPouzar

Its occurred to me that, given Yamamoto was 18 when he signed his ELC via Section 9.2 of the CBA, his contract is subject to slide again this year if he doesn’t play 10 NHL games.

I honestly don’t imagine that he doesn’t get in to 10 NHL games this year but I wonder if this is a factor at all in management’s decisions with him.

v4ance

godot10,

Ha! I can top that!

I was on an assignment via a temp agency for 4 days at Waste Management Inc. assembling those two wheeled recycling bins during Stampede. The figured I’d fully assemble 50 per day but I was finished the job by the middle of the 3rd day.

Since I was an extra hand, they figured they put me to use over the last two days with a pressure sprayer washing out porta toilets that were coming back from all over Calgary from all the breakfasts. They gave me coveralls, rubber boots, a respirator and some rubber gloves but I still got coated with a mist of poo over all my exposed areas.

This one porta potty comes in filled with small rocks in the bottom of the basin. Being the temp, they gave me the job of sticking my arm in and digging all those rocks out. Or anything else that was still in the bottom…

By the end of the day, I had gotten used to the smell mostly so after I finished washing up in the employee bathroom (twice!) I hopped a C-train for home. Now if you’ve rode a train during the 4pm rush during Stampede, you’d understand that it’s usually a sardine can with everyone packed in as tightly as possible. On that train, I was given a good three feet of room on all sides while I rode home with a sardonically evil grin.

Needless to say, I didn’t show up for my 4th day…. there was no way I was gonna be a low down dirty rock picking shit stirring dweeb for another day!

Melvis

Thorin,

Thanks. Tow behind, definitely. I never understood the popularity of fifth wheels, for many of the reasons you cited. Furthermore, I want the truck bed free and clear. The back up camera makes a lot of sense no matter how good one’s back up skills.

I’m not buying this year, and doing all the research and planning over the winter before putting the house up for sale next spring. The subject will probably come up again by then.

rickithebear

Since day 1 goal scoring from
Shooting from pocession
is more efficient than
first passing to some one who shoots.

Which is more efficient
Than passing to someone who passes to someone who shoots.

Shooting from highest density area is most efficient way to try to get a goal.

Goals went in 16-17
7.35/60 on PP
2.35;60 at even.
7.35/2.35 = 3.12
Approx 3.00 yr to yr.

Even Goal production is most valuable off production ability.
Based on efficiency and difficulty.

That is why I look at JP versus winger peers.
7-8 to 17-18 #8 to 19 – 19 yr old wingers in EVG

P. Kane 7-8 14evg/82gm .171 evgpg
Player evg. Evg/69
Toews 9 evg .77 evg/60
Sharp 6 .91
Lang 4 .96
Havlat 3 .96

Perron 7-8 10/62 .161
Stempniak 1.55
Weight 3 1.67
Mcdonald 3 1.04
Tkachuk 3 1.23

Puljujarvi 17-18 10/65 .154
Lucic 6 .77
Mcdavid 5 1.15
Strome 3 .76
RNH 1 .51

Ehlers 15-16 11/72 .153
Schiefle 6 .71
Perrault 6 .96
Wheeler 4 .70

M Paajarvi 10-11 12/80 .150
Omark 8 1.24
Gagner 5 .71
Cogliano 4 1.00

Beauveillier 16-17 9/66 .136
Nelson 3 .58
Tavares 2 1.08
Bailey 2 1.00

Tkachuk 16-17 10/76 .132
Backlund 9 .67
Frolik 9 .67

Burakovsky 14-15 7/53 .132
Backstrum 4 1.07
Ovechkiin 4 1.15
Johansen 2 .53
Brouwer 2 .64

Boedker 08-09 9/78 .115
Hanzal 4 .57
O. Jokinen 2 .69
Turris 1 .54

Voracek 8-9 9/80 .113
Chimera 4 1.07
Umberger 3 .68
Brassard 2 .77

J Bratt 17-18 8/74 .108
Hischier 4 .50
Hall 4 .56*
Boyle 3 2.60

GM with who for How long.
What % of fwd teammates are better with than without.

PS. Manually doing WOWY on paper then transfer to excel.
Was hours of work until
Steered to stats.hockeyanslysis.

Healthy lean JP.
Playing skill with speed may be another beauty.

OriginalPouzar

pts2pndr: In the media MacT went on record stating that he was fully behind the coach and sytem employed! At that time he had ample cause not to do so!His loyalty damaged his reputation and cost him his job as GM! If you anchor yourself to a sinking ship it will not end well! I could list a number of errors but the most grevous was the Eakins Hall divide which in the end opened the door for the trade to NYJ.

Of course he gave hit a vote of support publicly – he’s the GM, he’s not going to throw the coach under the bus publicly. We’ve seen managers give public votes of support just weeks before firing the coach.

He fired that coach only 30 games in to his second season – that’s very early and, to me, I see zero loyalty but a GM that is admitting a mistake and trying to fix it.

That’s just me though, we might have different opinions on what it means to be loyal.

Boil-in-the-Oil

godot10: Shoveling manure?

Luxury.

Thorin

Sorry I wasn’t answering earlier in the day, I actually thought my post would be mostly ignored. Nice to know there’s fellow truck people here!

Unca Miltie: yes, keeping the engine at lower RPM will save gas, as air and fuel are mixed at a basically static ratio in gasoline engines, so less RPM means less air going through per minute means less fuel going through per minute. This advice is valid no matter what size of engine. Lower RPM also (almost always) means less horsepower available.

It is horsepower that determines whether you can hold 90 kmh towing 8,000 pounds (6,100 trailer and easily 1,900 gear, gear adds up quick) going up an 8% hill in the Kicking Horse Pass. I haven’t done the precise math, but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear maintaining 90 kmh on that piece of road with that load takes 350hp to maintain (if you don’t have enough horsepower, you’ll slow to a speed that requires less horsepower, until you do have enough horsepower). horsepower and torque discussions

Now, horsepower is torque * RPM / 5252. If an engine produced the same amount of torque at all RPM then this calculation is easy, but engines have a “torque curve”, where they produce different amounts of torque at different engine speeds. The 3.5L EcoBoost (2011 edition) makes about 300hp at the wheels at 5,200 RPM (article with charts). If I’m trying to get my trailer through the Kicking Horse Pass I’m going to have to wring max power out of the engine just to hold 70 kmh, so I’m going to run it at 5,000+ RPM. If I keep the engine at 3,000 RPM, I’ll only have 200 hp available (see the charts), probably not enough to even hold 70 kmh.

Of course at that point I’m not trying to save gas, I’m trying to get a trailer over the top of a mountain pass. Empty trucks that aren’t towing should absolutely be able to maintain highway speeds at 2,000 RPM or less (my Chevy does 100 kmh at 1,900 RPM in 6th gear, which is a second overdrive).

Something more to think about is atmospheric pressure at altitude – Kicking Horse is 5,000 ft above sea level, and you lose approximately 3% of max power per 1,000 ft, so a 300 max hp engine will only make 255 max hp going through the Kicking Horse.

My anecdotal evidence from my experiences, my friends’ experiences, and various bloggers that document all their driving and loads and fuel usage shows that the 2018 Chevy 5.3L and the 2018 Ford 3.5L EcoBoost get about the same real-world fuel economy but the Ford can produce more power at max load, which lets you move a couple of kilometers faster over the Kicking Horse.

Melvis: are you getting a tow-behind trailer or a fifth wheel? Fifth wheel trailers put a lot more weight on the tow vehicle so I recommend at least a three-quarter ton truck if you’re going that way. Fifth wheels are also taller and thus have a larger frontal area resisting air than a tow-behind. And that frontal area makes a big difference – I don’t have the link handy, but I’d found a mathy RV blog that showed how frontal area / air resistance at highway speeds counted for 75% to 95% of required power – rolling resistance from the trailer and the tow vehicle accounted for about 5%, and the grade you were towing up counted for 0% to 20% (this went up to 5% grades driving between 90 kmh and 110 kmh).

As far as parking and backing, if you’re buying a newer truck, get one with a back-up camera that can see the hitch for hooking up, and put a wireless backup camera on the back bumper of the trailer for backing into spots. If you can park in tight spots with just mirrors, you might not even need that, but you do wanna stop halfway in and walk around the trailer to make sure you’re not catching on trees, hidden posts, stumps, etc. In my family, I’m actually the one who can envision the trailer movement the best, so my wife or kids do the backing while I instruct them, and I tell them to just follow my instructions exactly and if something gets broken it’s my fault because I’m giving directions.

Can’t help you with the companion, though 🙂

Bendelson: that’s a funny story when it’s not happening to me! I’ve seen lots of people who don’t know how to back up and who also don’t actually pay attention to what their vehicles are doing. I saw one guy somehow get his 17 foot trailer perpendicular to the campsite he was trying to park it in. That’s 90 degrees to the direction he was supposed to be at. I’d never seen someone jack knife that small of a trailer while backing, and he couldn’t figure out how to get out, so finally I helped him get unstuck.

Scungilli: you’re right that Toyotas have a lower rate of repairs per 100,000 km across the fleet when compared to Dodges/Rams (Ram Trucks is the actual make since 2010), Fords, Chevys/GMC, and Nissan (especially Nissan). Honda’s “truck” has a lower rate of repairs per 100,000 km than Toyota’s truck in the same class. But the Tacoma cannot tow a large travel trailer, it just doesn’t have the axle ratings nor adequate transmission cooling, and the Tundra really does use a ton of gas – if I can save 2L/100km * 20,000km, that’s 400L of fuel per year, or about $500 a year at current prices, so if I have a $1,500 repair every third year then I’ve broken even. But the Tundras do pretty damn well pulling that trailer over the Kicking Horse, thanks to all the power from the extra fuel it’s burning.

flyfish1168

OriginalPouzar: Where is this loyalty though?Sure, hiring may have been a mistake but he was fired 30 games in to his second season – I see zero loyalty.

I thought I remember hearing something about the owner of the team having to tell MacT to fire him

Eakin mind is so one dimensional. He couldn’t think of players playing outside of his box. Players had to execute his scheme exactly. All players want to play to their strengths but was not allowed to in eggheads system. Every player was confused out on the ice since they were not doing want comes naturally to them.

leadfarmer

hunter1909:
As a Cold War child I was subjected to the entire 9 yards of propaganda.

It helped having a Namao nearby. The literally last line of frontier defence against the dreaded Russkies.

I grew up in fear of the unknown.

Fast forward to today. The Russian people are marvellous. Canadians look like clowns compared to them culturally through no fault of their own since Canada is a brand new nation and Russia is ancient.

So why should anyone hate Russia?

I no longer know. So, I like Russia.

The people of Ukraine can give you millions of reasons starting with Stalin stealing all their grain while they were going through a terrible famine. There’s a good place to start. Russian people are fantastic wonderful people. People that run and have run their country. Not so much.
But I’m sure youll have some it still beats the liberal agenda comment and then a were not so innocent ourselves.
And to that all I have to say is no one is shocked that Hunter fell in line with the rest of the right wingers “cmon guys Russia isn’t so bad”

Wilde

The answer was Zack Kassian, by the way.

And I’m not talking about him checking out later in the year, or the lack of physical play later in the year, or the penalties.

Just straight up missing checks, missing pucks and generally providing no pressure.

Guy has a tremendous story and I’m cheering for him but I’m really worried about fundamental stuff like this. Stuff that happened really early in the year and could happen really early in the year again and it could be his last year in the league as a result.

Wilde

Woodguy v2.0: Is the data available to pull this stuff?

As far as I know SPORTLOGiQ is the only NHL data that has this stuff and they only sell it to teams, TSN and Sportsnet as far as I know.

I’d be getting stuff like location/time of shots off of offensive zone face-off wins, and I already have @shutdownline’s zonal transition stuff/odd man rush on file.

Also all the powerplay stuff should be form the NHL too.

Figuring out how to weigh stuff would be the hardest part.

JimmyV1965

godot10: Dallas Eakins cultivated an Eakins’ cult in the Toronto media, the centre of the hockey world. He is an ace self-promoter, but not so good at coaching.

We might hate him, but Eakins will be back. Maybe as early as this year.

pts2pndr

OriginalPouzar: Where is this loyalty though?Sure, hiring may have been a mistake but he was fired 30 games in to his second season – I see zero loyalty.

In the media MacT went on record stating that he was fully behind the coach and sytem employed! At that time he had ample cause not to do so! His loyalty damaged his reputation and cost him his job as GM! If you anchor yourself to a sinking ship it will not end well! I could list a number of errors but the most grevous was the Eakins Hall divide which in the end opened the door for the trade to NYJ.

pts2pndr

anduril:
While individual player development is perhaps paramount, sometimes I wonder about the value in keeping players in the AHL together as a boost to each other. For example, let’s say KY tears it up in the AHL and 20 games in the Oilers call him up to bolster their lineup. KY may help the Oilers but at what cost to the AHL team? How does losing a linemate affect Benson and Marody, and how much better would they become if KY stays down with them? Playing with better linemates can really help a player succeed. I’ve seen it in youth sport. It’s not just that you get a point boost but I think you learn from that player. If you left KY down, does it stunt his development that much? Or, by leaving him down, do you maybe boost the development of Benson and Marody and get three prospects to the NHL instead of just one? Maybe with KY down, the Condors win more than they lose, but with him up, they lose more than they win. How does that affect the development of the players?

The objective of a minor league affiliate should be to prepare your drafted players for your NHL team! The promotion of players to the parent team should act as an incentive for their teammates! Success of your minor league team should be calculated on the number of players they graduate to the parent team and not by their team success at the minor league level. Team success goes to the coaching staff moreso than the players and there is where I believe is the disconnect! Coaches want to be promoted therfore veteran AHL players often get playing time that should be afforded to younger players!

OriginalPouzar

pts2pndr: The MSM were all in that belief. Everthing that Toronto touches is first class. It is why TSN is called by many as the TorontoSports Network! TMac had been working in that environment and my beliefis he fell into their belief system! There was little concrete evidence that Eakins was the new best coach available. The mistakes that Dallas Eakins made while coach are epic! The loyalty MacT showed to his Eakins failing ideology and many leadership errors were without equal! Making your first overall draft choice an example by benching him and throwing his assistant coaches under the bus but two of Eakins errors that defy logic!

Where is this loyalty though? Sure, hiring may have been a mistake but he was fired 30 games in to his second season – I see zero loyalty.

Melvis

There’s just something utterly silly about walking for miles and lifting weights unto a stone boat. Then handling the same weight again, when tossing them unto a pile adjacent to a slough. It wasn’t the exercise that bothered me so much. It was the high wind from the north during the first couple days in May that went whistling across a barren prairie and right through you, while kicking dirt in your face.

And you’re never done. The one you missed lurks under a swath in late August. The one that goes through the Deere like all hell breaking loose. At which point, you discover the broken belt that takes half a day of deconstruction to replace. And the minute you’re good to go again, the high pitched squeal of the burned out bearing, announcing it’s location – right next to that effin belt.

Now a I can’t find those rock piles. They’ve disappeared. They’re now lodged in McMansion fireplaces in exurbia.

pts2pndr

godot10: Shoveling manure?

Only if it was the chicken coop! Thinking about that still makes me shiver in disgust!

hunter1909

As a Cold War child I was subjected to the entire 9 yards of propaganda.

It helped having a Namao nearby. The literally last line of frontier defence against the dreaded Russkies.

I grew up in fear of the unknown.

Fast forward to today. The Russian people are marvellous. Canadians look like clowns compared to them culturally through no fault of their own since Canada is a brand new nation and Russia is ancient.

So why should anyone hate Russia?

I no longer know. So, I like Russia.

hunter1909

pts2pndr: Making your first overall draft choice an example by benching him and throwing his assistant coaches under the bus but two of Eakins errors that defy logic!

It’s pretty easy in fact to understand his “motivation” for treating Yaks like shite.

Eakins is a low-character individual, proven by his actions as a head NHL coach. He hid behind the “veteran” that clown from Boston I don’t even remember his name made him captain…

Eakins made a 19 year old foreigner his scapegoat, in a quasi-racist arguable way that many seem to denigrate my friends from the former USSR who I have grown from hatred to love over my lifetime.

Eakins is the scum of the earth.

lol

Now! Back to that 12 year old scotch!

pts2pndr

Lowetide: Worst job ever, picking rocks.

True but It did amazing things for your upper body strength!

hunter1909

godot10: One of my summer jobs in high school was at a fertilizer plant near Redwater as a labourer.

Redwater: Where back in the 20th century, my workmate got himself ambushed at 12 noon on a Saturday morning and got his two front teeth knocked out on main street Redwater lol

Honest Question: I no longer live in Alberta, so was wondering how much of that Old West atmosphere is left?

Ironically I complained about life when I was 16, but it was still a world where a young man was able to go anywhere he felt like.

pts2pndr

OriginalPouzar: I don’t understand the connection between McTavish being loyal and Dallas Eakins.

When hired, it was thought of as a huge win for the Oilers – he was very well respected coming out of the AHL and thought of as the potential next great coach – He was then fired 30 games in to his second season.

The MSM were all in that belief. Everthing that Toronto touches is first class. It is why TSN is called by many as the Toronto Sports Network! TMac had been working in that environment and my belief is he fell into their belief system! There was little concrete evidence that Eakins was the new best coach available. The mistakes that Dallas Eakins made while coach are epic! The loyalty MacT showed to his Eakins failing ideology and many leadership errors were without equal! Making your first overall draft choice an example by benching him and throwing his assistant coaches under the bus but two of Eakins errors that defy logic!

godot10

Lowetide: Worst job ever, picking rocks.

One of my summer jobs in high school was at a fertilizer plant near Redwater as a labourer. One of the tasks was cleaning the accumulated dust and residue out of massive machines. So it was like 100 plus degrees and your wearing a dust mask and after a couple of hours, one comes out of there covered with fertilizer dust, with it caked into ones hair with the dust and sweat.

Picking rocks didn’t seem so bad after that.

anduril

While individual player development is perhaps paramount, sometimes I wonder about the value in keeping players in the AHL together as a boost to each other. For example, let’s say KY tears it up in the AHL and 20 games in the Oilers call him up to bolster their lineup. KY may help the Oilers but at what cost to the AHL team? How does losing a linemate affect Benson and Marody, and how much better would they become if KY stays down with them? Playing with better linemates can really help a player succeed. I’ve seen it in youth sport. It’s not just that you get a point boost but I think you learn from that player. If you left KY down, does it stunt his development that much? Or, by leaving him down, do you maybe boost the development of Benson and Marody and get three prospects to the NHL instead of just one? Maybe with KY down, the Condors win more than they lose, but with him up, they lose more than they win. How does that affect the development of the players?

godot10

Lowetide: Worst job ever, picking rocks.

Shoveling manure?

godot10

OriginalPouzar: I don’t understand the connection between McTavish being loyal and Dallas Eakins.

When hired, it was thought of as a huge win for the Oilers – he was very well respected coming out of the AHL and thought of as the potential next great coach – He was then fired 30 games in to his second season.

Dallas Eakins cultivated an Eakins’ cult in the Toronto media, the centre of the hockey world. He is an ace self-promoter, but not so good at coaching.

Woodguy v2.0

Richard S.S.:
Woodguy v2.0,

At some point, J.P. was injured and Patrik Laine kept on playing.He had a very sucessful and dominant run from that point and really took over 2nd while J.P. dropped to third.With the tendency to pick Centers before BPA and usually a 50-50 choice between best D and RW, who picks J.P. if the Oilers don’t? Are you sure?

You never *know* for sure unless you live in the alternate timeline.

The players in the top 1-2 groups rarely drop much, especially 6’4″ scoring forwards.

pts2pndr

Richard S.S.:
Woodguy v2.0,

At some point, J.P. was injured and Patrik Laine kept on playing.He had a very sucessful and dominant run from that point and really took over 2nd while J.P. dropped to third.With the tendency to pick Centers before BPA and usually a 50-50 choice between best D and RW, who picks J.P. if the Oilers don’t? Are you sure?

Most of the time the best of a group of items is predetermined whatever the item is but this is never always the case! Hindsight is always 20-20!

Melvis

bendelson: In a former life, while managing a provincial park, there was nothing more entertaining than watching a novice attempt to back their fresh off the lot 30ft trailer into a tight spot.The screaming between the husband and wife, the driver and spotter, was always communication breakdown at its absolute best… and the hand signals!Oh, the hand signals…

I once observed some poor bastard blow out the back window of his brand new Silverado on the Friday of a long weekend while attempting a completely futile, sharp over-correction to his sharp over-correction with his 5th wheel.He calmly called his wife back into the truck, and without a single word, left the park for what was undoubtedly, a very long ride home… she glanced over and somewhat sheepishly, gave me a cautious smile as they drove past.

Then they got home and went through the same thing trying to get the thing in the driveway next door.

It was for sale for two years before getting caught in a high wind in Nevada. The one that twisted and broke the hitch and sent it rolling down an embankment.

Man, the insurance…were they ever happy.

Then they bought a Tucson and a condo in, where else, Tucson.

OriginalPouzar

pts2pndr: Eakins was the worst mistake made by the Oilers from their inception! MacT’s reputation will forever be tarnished because of! Loyalty at all costs! What a travesty! The saving gace if there is one is .from this we were gifted McDavid!

I don’t understand the connection between McTavish being loyal and Dallas Eakins.

When hired, it was thought of as a huge win for the Oilers – he was very well respected coming out of the AHL and thought of as the potential next great coach – He was then fired 30 games in to his second season.

Melvis

Bos8,

My dad wouldn’t hear of a rock picker. I was my dad’s rock picker.

OriginalPouzar

Richard S.S.:
Woodguy v2.0,

At some point, J.P. was injured and Patrik Laine kept on playing.He had a very sucessful and dominant run from that point and really took over 2nd while J.P. dropped to third.With the tendency to pick Centers before BPA and usually a 50-50 choice between best D and RW, who picks J.P. if the Oilers don’t? Are you sure?

A winger was taken at 6th as well…..

pts2pndr

Cape Breton Oilers 4EVR: Eakins wanted to turn him into Bob Gainey.No chance for success.Should have worked with his strengths instead of reinforcing his weaknesses.They knew what they were drafting.

Eakins was the worst mistake made by the Oilers from their inception! MacT’s reputation will forever be tarnished because of! Loyalty at all costs! What a travesty! The saving gace if there is one is .from this we were gifted McDavid!

VOR

Georgexs:
VOR,

Are you saying forwards picked in the bottom third of the first round who arrive in the NHL without a stop in the AHL produce the same offense as players who arrive after playing in the AHL? So by playing a bottom third first round forward pick that you think is ready earlier, you’re not going to hurt his offense and you’re going to avoid the risks involved with a stop in the AHL?

Am I reading the argument correctly or am I all wrong?

While that may or may not be true I don’t think the sample size is adequate or even close to adequate to know for sure.

My argument is just that there is no evidence for players from Kailer’s cohort suffering from starting in the NHL or benefitting from playing in the AHL.

I didn’t see any outcome differences.

Richard S.S.

Woodguy v2.0,

At some point, J.P. was injured and Patrik Laine kept on playing. He had a very sucessful and dominant run from that point and really took over 2nd while J.P. dropped to third. With the tendency to pick Centers before BPA and usually a 50-50 choice between best D and RW, who picks J.P. if the Oilers don’t? Are you sure?

OriginalPouzar

leadfarmer:
OriginalPouzar,

Or maybe it’s the same reason Kotkaniemi and Hayton got drafted above higher rated prospects.Centers are much more desired in this league.If JP was a center he would have been drafted by Cbus at 3ov.

Absolutely – I think the point is that the narrative that the Finish GM passing on Puljujarvi due Puljujarvi not living up to expectations (based on some knowledge the GM had) is a bit of a stretch.

Scungilli Slushy

Woodguy v2.0: *scribbles notes*

Many people who drive them including my father in law and customers, lease them. After 3 years I’d be wary. If you want a keeper in what I’ve seen in older trucks Toyota (I have a Tacoma) stay out of the shop. Cost of ownership is more than fuel.

I have heard so many stories of front ends and fuel pumps and control modules of various types. One guy went to Tundra and is now on his second, the first still working for the crew. A builder put 400 000 K on his Tacoma and also gave it to his crew and it’s still going.

I have 270 000 on mine. Nothing but routine maintenance. The caveat is Tacomas don’t carry weight well for heavy use and can’t tow big trailers. Depends what you do.

leadfarmer

OriginalPouzar,

Or maybe it’s the same reason Kotkaniemi and Hayton got drafted above higher rated prospects. Centers are much more desired in this league. If JP was a center he would have been drafted by Cbus at 3ov.

OriginalPouzar

Lowetide:
OP: The first article at their site is “Are the Montreal Canadiens a ticking time bomb for success?” so I would proceed with caution.

Yup, I’m going to have to agree with you there.

Scungilli Slushy

Lowetide: Another strike against Yak, he did get two more chances. Still, I wonder if Ralph (or a veteran coach) handled him differently as he matured, would we have a more positive outcome?

For me, it all comes back to how many players we’re discussing. Sooner or later you develop a past. Nail has his own hide to pack to market. The Oilers have an island of lost souls to answer for and I believe that’s the larger item.

To me Lucic fits here as well. He was always a limited player. But completely unique.

There was much said about player usage last season and I think it was a problem as with Yak. Lucic needs to play with edge and he needs to be used in a specific strategy to optimize what he can bring that almost no one else can.

I would play him with Connor and Nuge with a mission to create havoc net front and seal his side on the boards.

If Yama makes it or comes up I’d play him on that line to again create room and be big brother until Yama is established enough that the refs have his back, I think teams will try to intimidate him if he’s producing, if he’s not he’s in the A.

OriginalPouzar

Lowetide: I don’t know. Why?

They’ve reached out to me on Twitter to see if I wan’t to “join their team”.

Doesn’t seem like something I want to do.